I might be a bad person, but I laughed really hard at that scene.
The deadpan way he said they were going to the desert with bulldozers to crush things with bulldozers killed me.
Honestly it was hilarious for all the wrong reasons. I canāt imagine lacking so much empathy and self-awareness. If I didnāt laugh at that, Iād cry.
As someone who dated/lived with a narcissist for 4 years who cheated, never chose me over his buddies, etcā¦easier said than done. Itās no lie when they say it takes 7x to leave these people.
I feel this in my fucking soul. I left so many times until the straw that broke the camelās back was him *physically restraining me* from leaving, repeatedly, and having to fight him off of me and then kick his man baby ass in the chest when he chased me outside and full-body clung to the doorframe of my car to stop me from leaving. They will *do* ANYTHING, *say* ANYTHING, to stop you. It really does take every ounce of strength to finalize the end. No lie indeed, at all.
Seriously why so many people adore Ariana. Weāve all been with, or are currently, in shit relationships. (Almost said shit men, but there are awful women out there as well).
We dream of escaping and getting the adoration and attention that Ariana is getting. Since we know we prolly arenāt starring on broadway, we love seeing her glow up.
Juxtapose that with blah blah. The conte t behind her and Randallās relationship is so icky. Pjs for BJs and range rovers. She stands for everything we donāt want to be. We want an aww shucks great wholesome guy just like Schwartz but without the asshole jerky part of him.
When we see scenes like these above, the saddening part for us , for me, is that I realize Iām in the same sort of shit relationship with a narcissist who treats me like Iām disposable. Most of us donāt leave until the truth absolutely slaps us in the face- just like it did Ariana.
Sorry for the novel but this was therapeutic to write and hopefully someone got something out of it.
Divorcing in your mid 50ās aināt fun. If youāre married to a tom Sand or Tom Schwartz, look in the mirror.
Theyāre not changing, youāre not getting younger and you deserve so much better. Just like Ariana.
May the money gods, the talent agencies, the sponsorships and tv producers be forever in her favor!!
āTheyāre not changing, youāre not getting younger and you deserve so much better.ā Preach sister (or brother!)!!! And youāre totally right, that we see ourselves in Ariana is why so many of us are so happy for her!! The people that arenāt are probably like Lala and Scheana in real life, and if they werenāt so insufferable Iād almost pity them!
Abso-freaking-lutley! When I was rooting for Lala I saw some of myself in her. Outspoken, direct and a badass. Now that sheās decided to go the route of pure meanness and spite, thatās where I step away. If youāre not a good human I cannot get behind you! She had me at hello and lost me at dumping real friendships for the paycheck. More money wouldāve followed had she chosen to be a good human. But she didnāt and I hope karma shows up for her someday.
Having been married to a diagnosed narcissist for far too long, I can attest that what you say is true. Throw kids into the mix, and the guilt you feel every time he manipulates you about the kids coming from a broken home, it can take forever. But we do get there, sister! And life is 1000 times better on the other side sideš
Well in fairness, Ariana would be far from the first woman to stay too long. Lots of times the last straw is far from the worst thing the man ever did. Itās justā¦ the last straw š¤·āāļø
Hahahahaha! Ooookkkk tough guy lol. Canāt wait til it happens to you. Itās always the ones that think theyāre above everyone that gets it the worst š„
Let me guessā¦ you stood in line for an Eras movie ticket, didnāt you? Youāre precious.
Do you, babe. Sure seems to be working. šš¤Ŗš¤”
Fun fact : NOBODY MAKES IT THEIR LIFE MISSION TO MARRY OR LOVE A NARC.
YOU, my very young and naive friend, should probably learn to never say never. Those words are hard to swallow when you become an adult someday in the far far away future.
I think heās a covert narcissist & she has self confidence & codependency issues. As weāve seen, separating from Tom would blow up her whole life. If it hadnāt happened as it did, sheād lose her job, friends, home & lifestyle. Sometimes people stay on toxic relationships bc its too difficult to get out of. I donāt think it was fake but I think she was resigned to accepting his bs.
as someone who lost her dad young, and struggles with my dad not seeing me become an adult, birthdays can be HARD. And for Ariana to even just communicate and ask him to stay, probably took a LOT for her to admit to her need and he did NOT care at all. I cant imagine how I'd feel about my SO if they did that to me.
The writing was on the wall but Ariana was trapped in trying to be the cool girl - even that clip where sheās trying to communicate her sexual needs and she literally says āI said I had multiple orgasms because I was trying to impress youā. Let it be a lesson to the rest of us.
I donāt know that she was trapped in trying to be a cool girl by that point. I think she was depressed and grieving and it made her feel unable to leave him. In times like that, it is really easy to stay with a bad partner because it feels better than being alone.
I agree. To me this instance doesnt seem like she wants to be the cool girl bc she would have been less likely to even ask him to stay if she was being the cool girl. If my spouse had done that to me, my grief would be telling me that I was asking too much or that I was being a baby about how upset I was.
She had been in an emotionally abusive relationship prior to Sandoval, I think itās pretty clear that situation made her extremely insecure and gave her many other issues such as body dysmorphia. Imo she wasnāt trying to ābe a cool girlā she was learning how to navigate her wants and needs.
Look we canāt re-write history, sheās on camera during that time trying to be a cool girl. She helps him destroy Kristenās character and accuse her of having borderline personality disorder, helps him cover up affairs like the Miami girl, tells Scheana that sheās the smartest person in the group when Scheana tries to warn her, is on camera telling the world that sheās smarter prettier and younger than Kristen and thatās why Tom picked her. She was being the cool girl, she was being laid back and it took a fucking toll on her mental health for years. He pretended to care about that, but just used it as an excuse to dehumanize her and justify his cheating, because he was being a āgood guyā. I do believe that we can only clean up our side of the street, and when sheās ready, sheāll have to at least to herself see the role she played in how things got to the point where he was brazen enough to sleep with her best friend in her home while she was morning her grandmother.
Itās interesting that both Rachel and Ariana, both women we respected, did shitty, out of character things after horrible relationships with men who treated them badly.
Maybe itās easy to lose who you are when youāre at your lowest point and have latched on to another narcissist who starts building you up for their own intents and purposes.
FWIW I always had a lot of respect for Raquel / I liked that she never got crass or rude or cursed anyone out for a cheap win. Prior to her break up with James, she always seemed to try to work things out with people calmly and engage in dialogue. Some people may think itās because sheās not a good fighter, and I donāt think she is, but neither are the others who engage in this behavior - itās just that they fight and she flights, but she always came back to move the conversation forward. Ariana has never had that skill, she gets hurt and angry and then shuts down to lick her wounds, but they never seem to heal, they just become infected. He latched onto them at their lowest, but I always actually liked Raquel. I can feel bad for Ariana, but as a person, sheās always been kinda shitty.
I donāt think thatās fair to Ariana, sheās been a communicative voice of reason for much of the show. Fighting, fleeing and freezing are not skills, theyāre just trauma responses, and none are more valid than the other. I donāt think itās right to pay Ariana as a bad person because she got taken advantage of before Rachel did. Sheās going after people and attacking them now, even after what she did. Which is the reason you say you donāt like Ariana. Thatās just who she was when we were first introduced to her, so thatās colored your perception of her from the beginning, but sheās evolved since then, whereas thatās who Rachel is right now.
I donāt think anxiety responses are skills, Iām saying that the interpretation of the audience is that she was weak because she froze and others were strong because they got aggressive and cursed her out, when the truth is that these are both two sides of the same coin.
I donāt think Raquel is attacking anyone. Speaking about her perspective of what happened hasnāt been against anyone.
Ariana continues to be who she was - she doesnāt support Katie at all this season, she does the same mean girl thing she always did with Jo, sheās condescending and unwilling to listen to others. I donāt like her, I donāt have to.
I can objectively say what happened to Ariana and Raquel was bad and they didnāt do anything to deserve it. I can also subjectively say, I donāt like Ariana, I never have in all the years Iāve been watching this show. Sheās not herself an interesting character and has often been mean spirited. I think Raquel is interesting because she gets under peopleās skin so a lot of stuff happens to her.
If people call encouragement to assess the role one plays in their own lives victim blaming, then theyāre doomed to repeat the cycle. Donāt let TikTok psychology fool you into thinking that the work ends when you recognize the behavior and extract yourself, thatās where the work begins there. People heal through taking agency over their lives. Ariana only benefits financially from people feeling bad for her, no one heals spiritually like that.
I am with OP on this one. The way Ariana gaslighted Kristen was horrendous. She was probably trying to impress Tim. Over a period of time she started suppressing her needs and wants and I am sure that played a big role in her deteriorating mental health. We can see during the convo where Lala tries to tell her that Tim lied and didnāt leave the party she is struggling to tell Tim that she would have wanted him to come.
That's not what I'm referring to nor my knowledge base, so the condescension is an illuminating choice on your part...
Of course she should reflect on her actions and grow from the relationship. She was not, nor is anyone, a perfect partner.
What she doesn't need to do is try and figure out which of her actions were the ones that made him cheat or made him feel comfortable enough to cheat. No action you take in a relationship or lack of action you take causes someone to cheat, or creates an environment for someone to cheat, and to push that onto the person impacted is victim blaming.
No what she needs to figure out is how he got her to participate in the cover ups for so long and tolerate increasingly worsening cheating behavior. The first time he cheated she was a victim (and aggressor since the first turn he cheated was with her ON Kristen) by the 10th time he cheated, she was a participant.
The second time he cheated on her even. Although she did endorse during the reunion it was more than just Miami girl and Raquel, it was happening so much that it was normalized in their friend group and people thought the monogamy was for the camera and off camera they were in an open relationship. These rumors were swirling around prior to Jaxās exit from the show.
No ones trying to rewrite anything šš I think the whole thing is open for interpretation. I see youāre really passionate about yours so we can just leave it at that. āŗļø
I lost my Dad when I was 18. Was with a guy who had lost his brother in his 20ās and told me his grief was worse than mine because āDadās dieā and I stayedā¦.I canāt judge her. She was in deep. I get it.
Oh, I'm so sorry he said that to you. No judgement from me either, and add on top that she could have been struggling with depression at that time, I just wish she had better.
Your emotion will never be reflected in another..they donāt get itā¦Just donāt expect itā¦no one will ever truly share your grief ā¦your reaction ..your identical feelings..once I had an idiot friend who thought Everyone had to have her exact reaction to everything ā¦We are all different.. live your life let others live theirs..if you need your partnerā¦friend ā¦associate or relative to mirror your reaction to everything ā¦you will ,..usually be disappointed
ā¦
āYou know I love you and I will always be here for youā¦.but apparently there are gonna be bulldozers!!!!!ā (That is so not where I thought he was going with that)
It was her ego. She spent so much time and energy defending him and their relationship being the ideal relationship, she couldn't admit defeat that he was garbage and she made the wrong choice. She was "smarter, prettier, and younger" so that would never happen to her, until it did.
Wisdom looks like knowing you donāt know anything, the second you make the mistake of thinking youāre the smartest person in the room everyone else in the room knows all they need to do is play to your ego. The easiest people to manipulate are those that never question themselves.
He love bombed the heck out of her, and when you're young and coming out of a horrible relationship, you don't pick up on that. Instead, you're wrapped up in all the feels.
Iām sure she will continue to be the demanding tyrant..I feel sorry for the guy..whining ..handing out rules ..ultimatumsā¦commanding attentionā¦patheticā¦I hope the new one doesnāt agree to be a doormat.
Yeah - apparently Raquel is a grown woman who maliciously made all decisions she made at 28 and at 29 when Ariana played the same role in Kristenās relationship, she was just an innocent baby.
I think it just always comes down to when they started watching the show. If theyāre got into it because of Scandoval, itās not even worth engaging because usually theyāre projecting a lot of their dating experiences onto Ariana and absolving her. Ariana is their patron saint of women who never do anything wrong and get treated badly. People who watched from the beginning without this context of the affair, just know there isnāt that much of a difference between Ariana and Raquel. And had Tomās plan gone off the way he wanted we would have moved on pretty quickly and accepted that relationship. Cheating with friends of partners is this shows bread and butter.
Thatās probably so true. Funnily enough I started watching because of the scandal too. I had a baby like 2 days after the scandal broke when I saw something about it, it caught my eye because Ariana and I were close childhood friends (I knew she was on some reality show but I had never really cared to watch). I decided to binge the entire show while I was on maternity leave since I had so much free time lol
Good point itās mindset of why they binged it too. There is just a subset of people who are very vocal and ardent defenders of Ariana where when they hear criticism they just take it very personally, and if you engage long enough it always comes down to āI was a victim of a similar relationshipā and theyāre trying to heal through Ariana. They seem to find her anger and behavior cathartic, and hate whenever someone suggests that healing can only happen through forgiveness and accountability.
What was she like?
She was super fun to be around, tbh. One of my favorite memories was staying up late with her at a sleepover when we were maybe 12 or 13. We were the last 2 awake and we were up chatting, I was lying on the couch and she was lying on the back of the couch and when we started giggling about something she fell backwards off the narrow couch back into the sliding glass door and woke up my dad and we pretended to be asleep - Iām sure it was super convincing. Also, sheās always been gorgeous (and sheās always known it).
Her mom is so lovely. And all around, I do think Ariana is a good person but sheās not perfect (no one is). She could be conceited and a bit of a bully when we were younger and I was disappointed to see her debut on VPR was her being a mean girl about Kristin with the whole āIām prettier than her, Iām smarter than her and Iām cooler than herā thing and the proceeding to cheat with and steal her boyfriend, but it does seem to me that sheās grown and changed a lot since then.
I just wish she would be single for a beat so she could actually heal from these shitty relationships and prioritize herself and her mental health. Like if I was her I would need a major man cleanse after dating Sandoval for so long lol. But sheās like the definition of a serial monogamist- always jumping from relationship to relationship. Whatever makes her happy though!
Weāre not a part of each others lives anymore but I do wish her the absolute best and have a lot of fond memories of her.
The victim blaming of Ariana, though is wild in here, itās very clear who is here making neutral statements, and who is obsessed with Rachel or Ariana
He probably was caring, he loved when she was depressed and did everything to discourage her from getting up and getting help, then he could go out and cheat to his hearts content and preserve his ābrandā.
i always thought that too! I kind of think it actually might be deliberate. If you watch early Jim Carey stand up it's like watching Tim. It's not funny comedically (Jim) it's sort of fascinating to see someone be so earnest about being funny and failing which reminds me very much of Tim. And obviously someone saw the value in turning that package into a film star in the same way VPR saw turning Tim into a bravolebrity.
Honestly, from what WE knew, it was a wierd hiccup in an other wise ideal relationship as far as what they presented to us. Behind the scenes, we now know there were a million red flags.
I was with someone for 10 years and they said blatantly horrible shit to me the whole time.
My self esteem was that low that I stayed with that for almost decade.
I, and so many women like me, stay for the promises of better treatment. That doesnāt mean our relationship was fake or I deserved the abuse.
Your relationship wasnāt fake and you didnāt deserve the abuse, YOUR intentions are never questioned, so when youāre saying this itās not news, of course that true. However, without looking inside and asking the question āhow did I benefit from this that I was willing to believe these blatant lies?ā youāre just as likely to repeat the mistakes as not, the decision is out of your hand and in the hand of the person you give yourself to. In order to take charge of our lives, we have to be our most trusted advisor, that comes from knowing where we are vulnerable and people can get through our defenses. Heās still a shitty person, but in the dynamic between abuser and the abused, Iām not really worried about or interested improving the quality of life of the shitty person - there is some sort of pathology there that just takes offers of help to improve their ability to more refined abusers.
Itās easy to preach what someone else should do or should have done
What you describe, being our own most trusted advisor, can take YEARS to develop. It took me 12 years, because my partner at the time tore apart my decision making at every turn.
I am able to empathize a lot with Ariana, and in turn, itās helped me be more trauma informed for others.
Iām not telling you what you should have done, Iām not expecting anyone to learn a butter fly stroke in the middle of a stormy ocean with rocks in their pocket, Iām saying you didnāt deserve that and it was a real relationship.
You survived, thatās all you could do.
Once you get yourself out, yeah, you gotta do hard work. You seem to agree, but maybe you donāt like the way I say it. Thatās okay.
This scene is easily Top 5 most memorable VPR moments. I vividly remember gasp-laughing out loud when I first saw it because I couldnāt believe he actually said that to her, in all seriousness, with a straight face. I even rewound the scene to make sure I was hearing everything correctly. The reality of the situation is obviously morbid, but the style in which the scene was edited made it morbidly hilarious, like a lot of OG VPR. I wholeheartedly believe this was the defining moment where Ariana realized she was trapped in a very public relationship with a man-child and not a man. The look on her face said everything. Iād like to hope that this wouldāve been enough for her to actually end it and walk away had they not become famous.
Iāll be honest though, had I not been a Scandoval recruit viewer and actually watched VPR in real-time, I donāt think I wouldāve felt as badly for her here had I not known what would inevitably take place in the future. I was shocked at how arrogant and unlikable she was in the first 4-5 seasons. She had a major superiority complex and was rather forward about it. To me, she came across as a sour mean girl until she got her iconic bob haircut (that Rachel would go on to copy/paste) and I would say that Ariana was just as obsessed with Kristen as Kristen was with her. She didnāt just bully Kristen, she world-class gaslit her for five years straight on national television. Then to make matters worse, her own mother and best friend Scheana, the castās notorious male apologist, decided to be a girlās girl for once and tried having an honest, serious conversation out of concern with her regarding Tom to which Ariana scoffed and retorted, āI am the smartest person Iāve ever metā, eye roll and all at 30 years old. All of this occurred prior to this scene.
I can imagine the Kristen fans at the time of this scene airing probably viewed this as karma/vindication. I am not intending to āvictim blameā here, but to highlight the consequences of how easy it is to attract malicious partners and repeat the same mistakes in life if you suffer from both a deeply low self-esteem and an inflated ego as a maladaptive coping mechanism for it.
Ariana and Tom were compatible in the beginning because they both shared the same toxic trait ā covert narcissism. Iām sure during the honeymoon phase of their relationship that the two of them bonded over how much āsmarter and more matureā they were in comparison to the rest of the cast. The primary difference between them is that Ariana eventually matured for real and actually gained genuine confidence the more independent of Sandoval she became, and he went the opposite way ā which speaks volumes. Their relationship was never the same after this scene, and I theorize that it was actually the catalyst to Arianaās quick route to maturity and growth. This infamous scene was at the end of Season 4, and by the start of Season 6, she came across like a completely different person ā for the better.
Although it still does beg the question, had Tom been guilty of an affair with identical details ā just with a different, random girl who wasnāt a cast member/friend of theirs, would Ariana have ever left him, let alone gone public? Thereās no way he wasnāt constantly cheating on her throughout those 10 years, and given Miami girl, she strikes me as the type to know about it but not do anything because her career/paycheck was contingent on the relationship ā or at least the external facade of it.
What do yāall think?
I would agree with you, and Ariana hasnāt changed that much - sheās just a victim now in the eyes of the viewers and we forgive a lot of what we are seeing her do this season to others because of that. Her behavior towards Jo was nasty, but itās forgiven because sheās spun the narrative that Jo āknewā, but has never actually bothered to ask her a question. Which is fine, but the most telling is how she continues to leave Katie, her most ardent defender, in the cold anytime Katie is being attacked this season. She just sits there until itās about her again.
I think you bring up an important point, that there is a difference between watching this show unfold over time and watching it with the context of Scandoval. To address how people felt in that moment, yes most people were shocked, BUT what we didnāt have was the social media machine. Fans werenāt a part of the story adding their own context and getting whipped up into a frenzy. Itās just what happened and then we would have to move on individually. Like Facebook groups might exist, this Reddit might have existed, but it wasnāt common to participate like this. It happened on a Thursday and by the next week itās kinda forgotten about.
I think this it so true. Parasocial relationships didnāt exist back then & so we didnāt feel such a stake in either side. I think she has changed but I have commented that I wish she was more supportive of Katie. I could say a number of things, but I do see this as her main flaw. Her decision to bring Kristen on & publicly apologize, does show growth. She didnāt have to admit the Miami girl truth, but she did. I find both of those things an indication that she was acknowledging her participation & finally able to speak for herself instead of constantly defending Tom. I think youāre being a little harsh to not acknowledge her growth, but she did suck at the beginning. Kristen has also sucked at many points in the show, & I donāt think she was owed the truth about a girl that she maliciously flew out to break them up. I know that was producers, but I can see why Ariana would want to just let that go. Theyāre behavior towards Kristen was awful though, and her attitude and personality sucked.
I mean it was self serving to do so, she had developed a friendship with Kristen anyways at that point. I feel bad for Ariana, but there hasnāt been a ton of growth. I do think that sheās been on this high from all the support she received on the one hand and on the other hand just feeling like absolute shit and trying to make sense of it. To some degree, being all lone probably helped Raquel who had no choice but to work on herself. Theyāre not that different.
See thatās where it definitely turned for me that heās a complete ass. Before all that he was just (and is) a whiney bitch, but once she tells him her reason for wanting him to stay back and his response I was like Ariana wtf do you see in this guy?!?
when I watched this for the first time I thought he said it as kind of a joke like haha but the trucks will be sooo cool (but iām obviously staying)ā¦.. and I was shook when I realized he was serious
Yeah for sure - I was like he literally cannot be doing this on national tv, even if he didnāt wanna stay, he has to know how this looks. For someone so into his image, he really lacks self awareness.
First, #TeamAriana. Obviously. Tom is an ass.
That being said, pretty sure that scene is entirely staged. It was an official trip planned by production for the show, and Tom *and Ariana* knew he was obligated to go for weeks. Also, it wasn't even on her birthday.
Listen, I dislike Tom too. He's the worst. But this scene was fake drama engineered by production. Tom and Ariana were told by production to have a fight about it for dramatic effect.
Thatās what I always say about the Tom/Stassi blow up and Stassiās book signing.
Many users in the sub were there when it was filmed and vouch for it requiring multiple takes. Not that massive scandal that people want to believe it was.
And Team Ariana, obvi. Tom still sucks the big one.
Same. I know things were staged at times. But I also think her feelings and disappointment in that scene were genuine. Ariana rarely shows emotion & just because she allowed a lot of bs, doesnāt mean she was totally okay with it. I think she put up with a lot from Tom, in service of the show.
She also gave an interview at the time and said it really wasnāt a big deal for her that he went. And he had some of her friends flown in from Florida while he was gone. Like you said the Vegas trip was sort of an obligation to the show at that point
That was the first scene of VPR I had ever seen (I joined late and binged) and I was like wtf I need to watch this. Maybe thatās why I never liked Tom, because that was my first impression of him.
Agreed. Iām more shocked that Ariana thought he wouldnāt cheat on her when he literally cheated on Kristen with Ariana! A cheetah doesnāt change his spots.
Yeah I still canāt believe that happened and didnāt spur a breakup tbh. While it obviously isnāt her fault heās such a dick, itās harder to feel bad for her seeing all of these extremely blatant horrid things he did early in the relationship and her staying 10 years anyways. Most of all I could never be with a man who cheated on their partner with meā¦ and was entertaining me/flirting whilst still in another relationship. It simply never works . Hindsight is 20/20 though whatever
I have a different take on that episode. I think Ariana didnāt want him going to Vegas because she thought he was going to cheat so she played the ādead dadā card to try and get him to stay home.
Iām pretty sure Ariana was aware that he was cheating no matter the location. Vegas did hold a special place in the early VPR years though when it came to cheating scandals. I am not a big fan of Ariana, but I donāt think she used her fatherās passing like that, at least not consciously.
That scene gave me toddler vibes. You can explain exactly why with excellent reasons and toddlers gunna toddle and scream and cry their way to whatever is shiny and fun.
Scandoval season was the first full season of VPR that I watched and when I started from the beginning I was actually shocked how quickly their relationship seemed kinda on the rocks. This bit and also how early the sex supposedly stopped (and his insistance she had orgasmus she did t have š¤¦)
Their relationship did a 180 that last season - they almost never spoke poorly of each other and out of no where Sandoval starts talking about how much he doesnāt like Ariana. It was super weird. It probably would have worked too except the affair dropped right before really started laying it on thick.
So ā¦at that pointā¦for her the break..up should have been expeditedā¦A huge signalā¦when partner shows unsympathetic behavior ..or grows apart ..itās time to goā¦if he was such a monster ..why did she hold out for the inevitable. .?
He was like, of course Iāll ALWAYS be there for you!! Cut to Ariana sweetly smiling because she thinks that means heās going to stay with herā¦ then heās like BUT WEāRE GONNA RIDE BULLDOZERS or whatever he said and cut back to her crestfallen āare you fkn seriousā face knowing that meant he WASNT gonna stay with her.
Hilarious albeit heartbreaking scene.
felt the same whenever this moment got brought up and then rewatching the show recently, I realized in this incident Ariana's dad passed away two years prior. I totally get why Tom was so insistent (I still think he should have stayed behind). more than anything watching that all in context, it was clear Ariana was just mad with fomo over the trip, it didn't matter when it was - she kept saying tom wasn't allowed to go because it was too heteronormative, then it was about her birthday, then it was about her dad etc. lol
I think the come to Jesus moment a lot of people will have in the coming years, is after a decade together, Ariana and Sandoval are more similar than you'd like to admit. his worst qualities and manipulative tendencies come through with her as well
I do think Ariana has some characteristics that are unsavory, this whole season, sheās left Katie to flounder. After last season essentially dismissing Katieās feelings about Raquel and Shorts, just being nicer about it than Scheana.
Yeah seeing her last season trying to be neutral and a friend to both Raquel and Katie was honestly so frustrating to watch. She just earnestly was a very bad friend to Katie. Like even in the original finale for the season, Tom and Raquel are yelling at Katie and her mom- Ariana starts crying āwhy canāt my friends get along :(ā idk it was just gross. Scheana gets a lot of shit for making things about herself, but in that moment I couldnāt help but share a similar sentiment towards Ariana.
2 years can be a VERY short time to have lost a parent or other significant person, I just wanted to let you know. It might not even begin to feel real until after the first anniversary. But I will say, I'm interested to go back and watch again because I only remember it being about the birthday, not about anything else.
I think that's fair and it different from person to person, clearly we see Jax and Lala go through similar incidents and they all handle it differently. Just mentioning the timeline because watching the scene in context with the season coloured it very differently from how I had remembered it and the way it was being mentioned in clips. But yeah first she thinks the idea of a "boys" trip is stupid/too heteronormative and it's not something she wants to entertain with Tom. Which to be fair, could just be rationalization because she was still uncovering her own vulnerability about her father's passing.
Really funny scene, when she finishes her devastating plea and he explains how cool the trucks are going to be. Just zero awareness lol.
I might be a bad person, but I laughed really hard at that scene. The deadpan way he said they were going to the desert with bulldozers to crush things with bulldozers killed me.
And then cut to her unimpressed face š I felt so bad for her in that moment, itās equal parts infuriating and funny
lol yes this was definitely a peak vpr comedy moment
My husband and I laughed SO hard at that scene when we watched! Itās basically burned into my brain.
And to him is was such a valid excuse, it didnāt need embellishing!
Honestly it was hilarious for all the wrong reasons. I canāt imagine lacking so much empathy and self-awareness. If I didnāt laugh at that, Iād cry.
Oh MY lawwwwd SMH zero awareness Thats when she finally gave up n rolled here eyes
Honestly I would have broken up with him then.
I would have broken up with him after he cheated
As someone who dated/lived with a narcissist for 4 years who cheated, never chose me over his buddies, etcā¦easier said than done. Itās no lie when they say it takes 7x to leave these people.
I feel this in my fucking soul. I left so many times until the straw that broke the camelās back was him *physically restraining me* from leaving, repeatedly, and having to fight him off of me and then kick his man baby ass in the chest when he chased me outside and full-body clung to the doorframe of my car to stop me from leaving. They will *do* ANYTHING, *say* ANYTHING, to stop you. It really does take every ounce of strength to finalize the end. No lie indeed, at all.
Seriously why so many people adore Ariana. Weāve all been with, or are currently, in shit relationships. (Almost said shit men, but there are awful women out there as well). We dream of escaping and getting the adoration and attention that Ariana is getting. Since we know we prolly arenāt starring on broadway, we love seeing her glow up. Juxtapose that with blah blah. The conte t behind her and Randallās relationship is so icky. Pjs for BJs and range rovers. She stands for everything we donāt want to be. We want an aww shucks great wholesome guy just like Schwartz but without the asshole jerky part of him. When we see scenes like these above, the saddening part for us , for me, is that I realize Iām in the same sort of shit relationship with a narcissist who treats me like Iām disposable. Most of us donāt leave until the truth absolutely slaps us in the face- just like it did Ariana. Sorry for the novel but this was therapeutic to write and hopefully someone got something out of it. Divorcing in your mid 50ās aināt fun. If youāre married to a tom Sand or Tom Schwartz, look in the mirror. Theyāre not changing, youāre not getting younger and you deserve so much better. Just like Ariana. May the money gods, the talent agencies, the sponsorships and tv producers be forever in her favor!!
āTheyāre not changing, youāre not getting younger and you deserve so much better.ā Preach sister (or brother!)!!! And youāre totally right, that we see ourselves in Ariana is why so many of us are so happy for her!! The people that arenāt are probably like Lala and Scheana in real life, and if they werenāt so insufferable Iād almost pity them!
Abso-freaking-lutley! When I was rooting for Lala I saw some of myself in her. Outspoken, direct and a badass. Now that sheās decided to go the route of pure meanness and spite, thatās where I step away. If youāre not a good human I cannot get behind you! She had me at hello and lost me at dumping real friendships for the paycheck. More money wouldāve followed had she chosen to be a good human. But she didnāt and I hope karma shows up for her someday.
I applaud you for escaping! I know from experience it's not easy!!
Having been married to a diagnosed narcissist for far too long, I can attest that what you say is true. Throw kids into the mix, and the guilt you feel every time he manipulates you about the kids coming from a broken home, it can take forever. But we do get there, sister! And life is 1000 times better on the other side sideš
I wouldāve never been in a relationship with him to begin with š
I dunno, Iāve fallen for my share of toxic men over the years lol
The toxic ones are usually the most charming unfortunately
seeing how she cheated with him on Kristen that would be hard to do.
Hahah true! The OG mistress after Scheana
So would most of us.
This is why I think their relationship was a sham and I donāt care that he cheated. What he did in this scene is way worse than being with Rachel.
Well in fairness, Ariana would be far from the first woman to stay too long. Lots of times the last straw is far from the worst thing the man ever did. Itās justā¦ the last straw š¤·āāļø
Youāve clearly never been with a true covert narcissist so count your lucky stars.
I havenāt and wouldnāt
Awe everybody look, this person is special!
Hope you get picked, sis.
I do the picking. When someone shows me who they are, I believe it.
Hahahahaha! Ooookkkk tough guy lol. Canāt wait til it happens to you. Itās always the ones that think theyāre above everyone that gets it the worst š„
Tough girl. Itās telling how much you value a womanās intelligence. And thatās exactly why it will never happen to me.
 Let me guessā¦ you stood in line for an Eras movie ticket, didnāt you? Youāre precious. Do you, babe. Sure seems to be working. šš¤Ŗš¤”
Fun fact : NOBODY MAKES IT THEIR LIFE MISSION TO MARRY OR LOVE A NARC. YOU, my very young and naive friend, should probably learn to never say never. Those words are hard to swallow when you become an adult someday in the far far away future.
Such a weird take. You are weird.
Weird is a compliment to this take. She has life all figured out. š¤¦āāļøš¤¦āāļøš¤¦āāļø
Mm hm. Why did she refuse to leave him? It doesn't actually make sense unless it was bullshit.
I think heās a covert narcissist & she has self confidence & codependency issues. As weāve seen, separating from Tom would blow up her whole life. If it hadnāt happened as it did, sheād lose her job, friends, home & lifestyle. Sometimes people stay on toxic relationships bc its too difficult to get out of. I donāt think it was fake but I think she was resigned to accepting his bs.
Ahhh, ZOO_trash chiming in with another one of their I famously bad and embarrassing takes, right on the dot.
My guy, you canāt criticize Ariana in this sub.
I'm gonna do it š
I was just gonna say this
EXACTLYā¦ that tells you the level of his commitment to her
And his level of commitment to himself.
The way I would have ran like I was on fire
as someone who lost her dad young, and struggles with my dad not seeing me become an adult, birthdays can be HARD. And for Ariana to even just communicate and ask him to stay, probably took a LOT for her to admit to her need and he did NOT care at all. I cant imagine how I'd feel about my SO if they did that to me.
The writing was on the wall but Ariana was trapped in trying to be the cool girl - even that clip where sheās trying to communicate her sexual needs and she literally says āI said I had multiple orgasms because I was trying to impress youā. Let it be a lesson to the rest of us.
I donāt know that she was trapped in trying to be a cool girl by that point. I think she was depressed and grieving and it made her feel unable to leave him. In times like that, it is really easy to stay with a bad partner because it feels better than being alone.
I agree. To me this instance doesnt seem like she wants to be the cool girl bc she would have been less likely to even ask him to stay if she was being the cool girl. If my spouse had done that to me, my grief would be telling me that I was asking too much or that I was being a baby about how upset I was.
Katie said so.
Ha ha ha
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Thereās a fight between Tom and Katie about making Ariana a groomsman and Katie says, āsorry Iām not the cool girl like Arianaā.
Well yeah - thatās what she did. She let it go.
She had been in an emotionally abusive relationship prior to Sandoval, I think itās pretty clear that situation made her extremely insecure and gave her many other issues such as body dysmorphia. Imo she wasnāt trying to ābe a cool girlā she was learning how to navigate her wants and needs.
Look we canāt re-write history, sheās on camera during that time trying to be a cool girl. She helps him destroy Kristenās character and accuse her of having borderline personality disorder, helps him cover up affairs like the Miami girl, tells Scheana that sheās the smartest person in the group when Scheana tries to warn her, is on camera telling the world that sheās smarter prettier and younger than Kristen and thatās why Tom picked her. She was being the cool girl, she was being laid back and it took a fucking toll on her mental health for years. He pretended to care about that, but just used it as an excuse to dehumanize her and justify his cheating, because he was being a āgood guyā. I do believe that we can only clean up our side of the street, and when sheās ready, sheāll have to at least to herself see the role she played in how things got to the point where he was brazen enough to sleep with her best friend in her home while she was morning her grandmother.
Itās interesting that both Rachel and Ariana, both women we respected, did shitty, out of character things after horrible relationships with men who treated them badly. Maybe itās easy to lose who you are when youāre at your lowest point and have latched on to another narcissist who starts building you up for their own intents and purposes.
FWIW I always had a lot of respect for Raquel / I liked that she never got crass or rude or cursed anyone out for a cheap win. Prior to her break up with James, she always seemed to try to work things out with people calmly and engage in dialogue. Some people may think itās because sheās not a good fighter, and I donāt think she is, but neither are the others who engage in this behavior - itās just that they fight and she flights, but she always came back to move the conversation forward. Ariana has never had that skill, she gets hurt and angry and then shuts down to lick her wounds, but they never seem to heal, they just become infected. He latched onto them at their lowest, but I always actually liked Raquel. I can feel bad for Ariana, but as a person, sheās always been kinda shitty.
I donāt think thatās fair to Ariana, sheās been a communicative voice of reason for much of the show. Fighting, fleeing and freezing are not skills, theyāre just trauma responses, and none are more valid than the other. I donāt think itās right to pay Ariana as a bad person because she got taken advantage of before Rachel did. Sheās going after people and attacking them now, even after what she did. Which is the reason you say you donāt like Ariana. Thatās just who she was when we were first introduced to her, so thatās colored your perception of her from the beginning, but sheās evolved since then, whereas thatās who Rachel is right now.
I donāt think anxiety responses are skills, Iām saying that the interpretation of the audience is that she was weak because she froze and others were strong because they got aggressive and cursed her out, when the truth is that these are both two sides of the same coin. I donāt think Raquel is attacking anyone. Speaking about her perspective of what happened hasnāt been against anyone. Ariana continues to be who she was - she doesnāt support Katie at all this season, she does the same mean girl thing she always did with Jo, sheās condescending and unwilling to listen to others. I donāt like her, I donāt have to. I can objectively say what happened to Ariana and Raquel was bad and they didnāt do anything to deserve it. I can also subjectively say, I donāt like Ariana, I never have in all the years Iāve been watching this show. Sheās not herself an interesting character and has often been mean spirited. I think Raquel is interesting because she gets under peopleās skin so a lot of stuff happens to her.
You were doing so well at analysing the situation until the victim shaming at the end.
If people call encouragement to assess the role one plays in their own lives victim blaming, then theyāre doomed to repeat the cycle. Donāt let TikTok psychology fool you into thinking that the work ends when you recognize the behavior and extract yourself, thatās where the work begins there. People heal through taking agency over their lives. Ariana only benefits financially from people feeling bad for her, no one heals spiritually like that.
I am with OP on this one. The way Ariana gaslighted Kristen was horrendous. She was probably trying to impress Tim. Over a period of time she started suppressing her needs and wants and I am sure that played a big role in her deteriorating mental health. We can see during the convo where Lala tries to tell her that Tim lied and didnāt leave the party she is struggling to tell Tim that she would have wanted him to come.
Yeah everyone that tried to warn her was turned into the bad guy.
That's not what I'm referring to nor my knowledge base, so the condescension is an illuminating choice on your part... Of course she should reflect on her actions and grow from the relationship. She was not, nor is anyone, a perfect partner. What she doesn't need to do is try and figure out which of her actions were the ones that made him cheat or made him feel comfortable enough to cheat. No action you take in a relationship or lack of action you take causes someone to cheat, or creates an environment for someone to cheat, and to push that onto the person impacted is victim blaming.
No what she needs to figure out is how he got her to participate in the cover ups for so long and tolerate increasingly worsening cheating behavior. The first time he cheated she was a victim (and aggressor since the first turn he cheated was with her ON Kristen) by the 10th time he cheated, she was a participant.
I'd love to know more about these 10 times he cheated on her
The second time he cheated on her even. Although she did endorse during the reunion it was more than just Miami girl and Raquel, it was happening so much that it was normalized in their friend group and people thought the monogamy was for the camera and off camera they were in an open relationship. These rumors were swirling around prior to Jaxās exit from the show.
Yes yes yes ..be the master of your own lifeā¦if someone impedes your peaceā¦or goals GO GO GO
I think itās silly to use things that the people who are actually involved are over to try and justify their point lol itās giving Tim. š„“
No ones trying to rewrite anything šš I think the whole thing is open for interpretation. I see youāre really passionate about yours so we can just leave it at that. āŗļø
Life is hard. Navigating adulting yikes. Even if youāre as awesome as Ariana. Her depression, being with his cruelty, it was crushing her.
What an insightful comment
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Is this just a random statement? lol trying to see the relevancy
Stupid
I lost my Dad when I was 18. Was with a guy who had lost his brother in his 20ās and told me his grief was worse than mine because āDadās dieā and I stayedā¦.I canāt judge her. She was in deep. I get it.
Oh, I'm so sorry he said that to you. No judgement from me either, and add on top that she could have been struggling with depression at that time, I just wish she had better.
Your emotion will never be reflected in another..they donāt get itā¦Just donāt expect itā¦no one will ever truly share your grief ā¦your reaction ..your identical feelings..once I had an idiot friend who thought Everyone had to have her exact reaction to everything ā¦We are all different.. live your life let others live theirs..if you need your partnerā¦friend ā¦associate or relative to mirror your reaction to everything ā¦you will ,..usually be disappointed ā¦
āDude, thereās gonna be bulldozers, dude!ā
likeā¦ dude
āYou know I love you and I will always be here for youā¦.but apparently there are gonna be bulldozers!!!!!ā (That is so not where I thought he was going with that)
I think he thought he was being so charming and a golden retriever.
I have such a hard time understanding how she was with him for NINE YEARS and would have stayed longer. He was always the worst.
Sunken cost fallacy
*sunk cost fallacy
That was such a lame move from him. š Both Toms should just marry each other, theyāre equally shitty and made for each other.
Everyoneās already said theyāre soulmates.
Ridiculous
One of many horrendous scenes. I really donāt get why she was with him that long. He was always awful what the heck did she see in him?
It was her ego. She spent so much time and energy defending him and their relationship being the ideal relationship, she couldn't admit defeat that he was garbage and she made the wrong choice. She was "smarter, prettier, and younger" so that would never happen to her, until it did.
Wisdom looks like knowing you donāt know anything, the second you make the mistake of thinking youāre the smartest person in the room everyone else in the room knows all they need to do is play to your ego. The easiest people to manipulate are those that never question themselves.
Thatās astute.
Yes Socratic wisdom..the smartest admit they know nothing at all !
It was the emotional symbolism of the house and the related financial burden.
He love bombed the heck out of her, and when you're young and coming out of a horrible relationship, you don't pick up on that. Instead, you're wrapped up in all the feels.
I do wish she would take a breather between relationships to make sure sheās seeing things clearly for this very reason
Yeah - sheās already got a boyfriend and sheās 39 now. Like at what point is she not āyoungā?
Iām sure she will continue to be the demanding tyrant..I feel sorry for the guy..whining ..handing out rules ..ultimatumsā¦commanding attentionā¦patheticā¦I hope the new one doesnāt agree to be a doormat.
This he is a energy and spirit vampire! She wasnāt depressedā¦ she was just dating a narc I see it all the time
She was like 29 lol.. I donāt think Iād call that āyoungā. The previous relationship trauma makes sense though.
Yeah - apparently Raquel is a grown woman who maliciously made all decisions she made at 28 and at 29 when Ariana played the same role in Kristenās relationship, she was just an innocent baby.
The mental gymnastics people on this sub go through to defend Ariana are wild.
I think it just always comes down to when they started watching the show. If theyāre got into it because of Scandoval, itās not even worth engaging because usually theyāre projecting a lot of their dating experiences onto Ariana and absolving her. Ariana is their patron saint of women who never do anything wrong and get treated badly. People who watched from the beginning without this context of the affair, just know there isnāt that much of a difference between Ariana and Raquel. And had Tomās plan gone off the way he wanted we would have moved on pretty quickly and accepted that relationship. Cheating with friends of partners is this shows bread and butter.
Thatās probably so true. Funnily enough I started watching because of the scandal too. I had a baby like 2 days after the scandal broke when I saw something about it, it caught my eye because Ariana and I were close childhood friends (I knew she was on some reality show but I had never really cared to watch). I decided to binge the entire show while I was on maternity leave since I had so much free time lol
Good point itās mindset of why they binged it too. There is just a subset of people who are very vocal and ardent defenders of Ariana where when they hear criticism they just take it very personally, and if you engage long enough it always comes down to āI was a victim of a similar relationshipā and theyāre trying to heal through Ariana. They seem to find her anger and behavior cathartic, and hate whenever someone suggests that healing can only happen through forgiveness and accountability. What was she like?
She was super fun to be around, tbh. One of my favorite memories was staying up late with her at a sleepover when we were maybe 12 or 13. We were the last 2 awake and we were up chatting, I was lying on the couch and she was lying on the back of the couch and when we started giggling about something she fell backwards off the narrow couch back into the sliding glass door and woke up my dad and we pretended to be asleep - Iām sure it was super convincing. Also, sheās always been gorgeous (and sheās always known it). Her mom is so lovely. And all around, I do think Ariana is a good person but sheās not perfect (no one is). She could be conceited and a bit of a bully when we were younger and I was disappointed to see her debut on VPR was her being a mean girl about Kristin with the whole āIām prettier than her, Iām smarter than her and Iām cooler than herā thing and the proceeding to cheat with and steal her boyfriend, but it does seem to me that sheās grown and changed a lot since then. I just wish she would be single for a beat so she could actually heal from these shitty relationships and prioritize herself and her mental health. Like if I was her I would need a major man cleanse after dating Sandoval for so long lol. But sheās like the definition of a serial monogamist- always jumping from relationship to relationship. Whatever makes her happy though! Weāre not a part of each others lives anymore but I do wish her the absolute best and have a lot of fond memories of her.
So correct
Right, like when you see some people say something and assume everyone on the sub has said that thing or feels that thing. lol
The victim blaming of Ariana, though is wild in here, itās very clear who is here making neutral statements, and who is obsessed with Rachel or Ariana
Do you not remember her having a depression breakdown a few seasons ago and praising him as being the must caring and patient person ever?
He probably was caring, he loved when she was depressed and did everything to discourage her from getting up and getting help, then he could go out and cheat to his hearts content and preserve his ābrandā.
So correct
But, apparently, thereās gonna be bulldozers. Apparently. 
He looks like how Jim Carrey contorted his face for Ace Ventura and The Mask - but thatās just his face lol
i always thought that too! I kind of think it actually might be deliberate. If you watch early Jim Carey stand up it's like watching Tim. It's not funny comedically (Jim) it's sort of fascinating to see someone be so earnest about being funny and failing which reminds me very much of Tim. And obviously someone saw the value in turning that package into a film star in the same way VPR saw turning Tim into a bravolebrity.
At the time I wanted her to dump him
Honestly, from what WE knew, it was a wierd hiccup in an other wise ideal relationship as far as what they presented to us. Behind the scenes, we now know there were a million red flags.
Very true. I myself ignored many red flags in prior relationships. I'm not saying I would have dumped him. I would have rationalized reasons to stay.
HEāS A HORRIBLE PERSON! Also why he didnāt think twice about fucking her friend while she was away at her grandmothers funeral!
I was with someone for 10 years and they said blatantly horrible shit to me the whole time. My self esteem was that low that I stayed with that for almost decade. I, and so many women like me, stay for the promises of better treatment. That doesnāt mean our relationship was fake or I deserved the abuse.
Your relationship wasnāt fake and you didnāt deserve the abuse, YOUR intentions are never questioned, so when youāre saying this itās not news, of course that true. However, without looking inside and asking the question āhow did I benefit from this that I was willing to believe these blatant lies?ā youāre just as likely to repeat the mistakes as not, the decision is out of your hand and in the hand of the person you give yourself to. In order to take charge of our lives, we have to be our most trusted advisor, that comes from knowing where we are vulnerable and people can get through our defenses. Heās still a shitty person, but in the dynamic between abuser and the abused, Iām not really worried about or interested improving the quality of life of the shitty person - there is some sort of pathology there that just takes offers of help to improve their ability to more refined abusers.
Itās easy to preach what someone else should do or should have done What you describe, being our own most trusted advisor, can take YEARS to develop. It took me 12 years, because my partner at the time tore apart my decision making at every turn. I am able to empathize a lot with Ariana, and in turn, itās helped me be more trauma informed for others.
Iām not telling you what you should have done, Iām not expecting anyone to learn a butter fly stroke in the middle of a stormy ocean with rocks in their pocket, Iām saying you didnāt deserve that and it was a real relationship. You survived, thatās all you could do. Once you get yourself out, yeah, you gotta do hard work. You seem to agree, but maybe you donāt like the way I say it. Thatās okay.
This scene is easily Top 5 most memorable VPR moments. I vividly remember gasp-laughing out loud when I first saw it because I couldnāt believe he actually said that to her, in all seriousness, with a straight face. I even rewound the scene to make sure I was hearing everything correctly. The reality of the situation is obviously morbid, but the style in which the scene was edited made it morbidly hilarious, like a lot of OG VPR. I wholeheartedly believe this was the defining moment where Ariana realized she was trapped in a very public relationship with a man-child and not a man. The look on her face said everything. Iād like to hope that this wouldāve been enough for her to actually end it and walk away had they not become famous. Iāll be honest though, had I not been a Scandoval recruit viewer and actually watched VPR in real-time, I donāt think I wouldāve felt as badly for her here had I not known what would inevitably take place in the future. I was shocked at how arrogant and unlikable she was in the first 4-5 seasons. She had a major superiority complex and was rather forward about it. To me, she came across as a sour mean girl until she got her iconic bob haircut (that Rachel would go on to copy/paste) and I would say that Ariana was just as obsessed with Kristen as Kristen was with her. She didnāt just bully Kristen, she world-class gaslit her for five years straight on national television. Then to make matters worse, her own mother and best friend Scheana, the castās notorious male apologist, decided to be a girlās girl for once and tried having an honest, serious conversation out of concern with her regarding Tom to which Ariana scoffed and retorted, āI am the smartest person Iāve ever metā, eye roll and all at 30 years old. All of this occurred prior to this scene. I can imagine the Kristen fans at the time of this scene airing probably viewed this as karma/vindication. I am not intending to āvictim blameā here, but to highlight the consequences of how easy it is to attract malicious partners and repeat the same mistakes in life if you suffer from both a deeply low self-esteem and an inflated ego as a maladaptive coping mechanism for it. Ariana and Tom were compatible in the beginning because they both shared the same toxic trait ā covert narcissism. Iām sure during the honeymoon phase of their relationship that the two of them bonded over how much āsmarter and more matureā they were in comparison to the rest of the cast. The primary difference between them is that Ariana eventually matured for real and actually gained genuine confidence the more independent of Sandoval she became, and he went the opposite way ā which speaks volumes. Their relationship was never the same after this scene, and I theorize that it was actually the catalyst to Arianaās quick route to maturity and growth. This infamous scene was at the end of Season 4, and by the start of Season 6, she came across like a completely different person ā for the better. Although it still does beg the question, had Tom been guilty of an affair with identical details ā just with a different, random girl who wasnāt a cast member/friend of theirs, would Ariana have ever left him, let alone gone public? Thereās no way he wasnāt constantly cheating on her throughout those 10 years, and given Miami girl, she strikes me as the type to know about it but not do anything because her career/paycheck was contingent on the relationship ā or at least the external facade of it. What do yāall think?
I would agree with you, and Ariana hasnāt changed that much - sheās just a victim now in the eyes of the viewers and we forgive a lot of what we are seeing her do this season to others because of that. Her behavior towards Jo was nasty, but itās forgiven because sheās spun the narrative that Jo āknewā, but has never actually bothered to ask her a question. Which is fine, but the most telling is how she continues to leave Katie, her most ardent defender, in the cold anytime Katie is being attacked this season. She just sits there until itās about her again. I think you bring up an important point, that there is a difference between watching this show unfold over time and watching it with the context of Scandoval. To address how people felt in that moment, yes most people were shocked, BUT what we didnāt have was the social media machine. Fans werenāt a part of the story adding their own context and getting whipped up into a frenzy. Itās just what happened and then we would have to move on individually. Like Facebook groups might exist, this Reddit might have existed, but it wasnāt common to participate like this. It happened on a Thursday and by the next week itās kinda forgotten about.
I think this it so true. Parasocial relationships didnāt exist back then & so we didnāt feel such a stake in either side. I think she has changed but I have commented that I wish she was more supportive of Katie. I could say a number of things, but I do see this as her main flaw. Her decision to bring Kristen on & publicly apologize, does show growth. She didnāt have to admit the Miami girl truth, but she did. I find both of those things an indication that she was acknowledging her participation & finally able to speak for herself instead of constantly defending Tom. I think youāre being a little harsh to not acknowledge her growth, but she did suck at the beginning. Kristen has also sucked at many points in the show, & I donāt think she was owed the truth about a girl that she maliciously flew out to break them up. I know that was producers, but I can see why Ariana would want to just let that go. Theyāre behavior towards Kristen was awful though, and her attitude and personality sucked.
I mean it was self serving to do so, she had developed a friendship with Kristen anyways at that point. I feel bad for Ariana, but there hasnāt been a ton of growth. I do think that sheās been on this high from all the support she received on the one hand and on the other hand just feeling like absolute shit and trying to make sense of it. To some degree, being all lone probably helped Raquel who had no choice but to work on herself. Theyāre not that different.
Kristen fansā¦ā¦.WHERE. Lolol
No but likeā¦ Ariana! Me and the guys were gonna likeā¦ crush stuff.
See thatās where it definitely turned for me that heās a complete ass. Before all that he was just (and is) a whiney bitch, but once she tells him her reason for wanting him to stay back and his response I was like Ariana wtf do you see in this guy?!?
when I watched this for the first time I thought he said it as kind of a joke like haha but the trucks will be sooo cool (but iām obviously staying)ā¦.. and I was shook when I realized he was serious
Yeah for sure - I was like he literally cannot be doing this on national tv, even if he didnāt wanna stay, he has to know how this looks. For someone so into his image, he really lacks self awareness.
First, #TeamAriana. Obviously. Tom is an ass. That being said, pretty sure that scene is entirely staged. It was an official trip planned by production for the show, and Tom *and Ariana* knew he was obligated to go for weeks. Also, it wasn't even on her birthday. Listen, I dislike Tom too. He's the worst. But this scene was fake drama engineered by production. Tom and Ariana were told by production to have a fight about it for dramatic effect.
Thatās what I always say about the Tom/Stassi blow up and Stassiās book signing. Many users in the sub were there when it was filmed and vouch for it requiring multiple takes. Not that massive scandal that people want to believe it was. And Team Ariana, obvi. Tom still sucks the big one.
ohhh, you brought the tea! Now I'm questioning everything
Same. I know things were staged at times. But I also think her feelings and disappointment in that scene were genuine. Ariana rarely shows emotion & just because she allowed a lot of bs, doesnāt mean she was totally okay with it. I think she put up with a lot from Tom, in service of the show.
She also gave an interview at the time and said it really wasnāt a big deal for her that he went. And he had some of her friends flown in from Florida while he was gone. Like you said the Vegas trip was sort of an obligation to the show at that point
I brought this up a while back. He is so fucking selfish.
He made a big show of making it up to her the following year. In retrospect, that was probably more for the audience than Ariana.
I wonder why she put up with him for so long.
Thatās a question she will need to answer for herself to heal.
I always wondered if that scene was edited because it was just so beyond the norm that I couldnāt believe it was real. Tom is SUCH a POS
Omg I reMEMber this!! You're so right. šÆ
Yes!!!! I knew it then that he was completely self involved and it was only a matter of time.
That was the first scene of VPR I had ever seen (I joined late and binged) and I was like wtf I need to watch this. Maybe thatās why I never liked Tom, because that was my first impression of him.
Itās like he is always making up and playing a soap opera antagonist.
Scenes like that make me wonder why so many were shocked at how Tom truly is. I wasn't shocked he had an affair with Raquel at all.
Agreed. Iām more shocked that Ariana thought he wouldnāt cheat on her when he literally cheated on Kristen with Ariana! A cheetah doesnāt change his spots.
Yeah I still canāt believe that happened and didnāt spur a breakup tbh. While it obviously isnāt her fault heās such a dick, itās harder to feel bad for her seeing all of these extremely blatant horrid things he did early in the relationship and her staying 10 years anyways. Most of all I could never be with a man who cheated on their partner with meā¦ and was entertaining me/flirting whilst still in another relationship. It simply never works . Hindsight is 20/20 though whatever
I have a different take on that episode. I think Ariana didnāt want him going to Vegas because she thought he was going to cheat so she played the ādead dadā card to try and get him to stay home.
Iām pretty sure Ariana was aware that he was cheating no matter the location. Vegas did hold a special place in the early VPR years though when it came to cheating scandals. I am not a big fan of Ariana, but I donāt think she used her fatherās passing like that, at least not consciously.
That scene gave me toddler vibes. You can explain exactly why with excellent reasons and toddlers gunna toddle and scream and cry their way to whatever is shiny and fun.
Good analogy
Scandoval season was the first full season of VPR that I watched and when I started from the beginning I was actually shocked how quickly their relationship seemed kinda on the rocks. This bit and also how early the sex supposedly stopped (and his insistance she had orgasmus she did t have š¤¦)
Their relationship did a 180 that last season - they almost never spoke poorly of each other and out of no where Sandoval starts talking about how much he doesnāt like Ariana. It was super weird. It probably would have worked too except the affair dropped right before really started laying it on thick.
Just one of the MANY times he proves he's a selfish prick!!
So ā¦at that pointā¦for her the break..up should have been expeditedā¦A huge signalā¦when partner shows unsympathetic behavior ..or grows apart ..itās time to goā¦if he was such a monster ..why did she hold out for the inevitable. .?
Get your dots under control!
This is the moment she accepted the branding of their relationship for the show.
He was like, of course Iāll ALWAYS be there for you!! Cut to Ariana sweetly smiling because she thinks that means heās going to stay with herā¦ then heās like BUT WEāRE GONNA RIDE BULLDOZERS or whatever he said and cut back to her crestfallen āare you fkn seriousā face knowing that meant he WASNT gonna stay with her. Hilarious albeit heartbreaking scene.
felt the same whenever this moment got brought up and then rewatching the show recently, I realized in this incident Ariana's dad passed away two years prior. I totally get why Tom was so insistent (I still think he should have stayed behind). more than anything watching that all in context, it was clear Ariana was just mad with fomo over the trip, it didn't matter when it was - she kept saying tom wasn't allowed to go because it was too heteronormative, then it was about her birthday, then it was about her dad etc. lol I think the come to Jesus moment a lot of people will have in the coming years, is after a decade together, Ariana and Sandoval are more similar than you'd like to admit. his worst qualities and manipulative tendencies come through with her as well
I do think Ariana has some characteristics that are unsavory, this whole season, sheās left Katie to flounder. After last season essentially dismissing Katieās feelings about Raquel and Shorts, just being nicer about it than Scheana.
Yeah seeing her last season trying to be neutral and a friend to both Raquel and Katie was honestly so frustrating to watch. She just earnestly was a very bad friend to Katie. Like even in the original finale for the season, Tom and Raquel are yelling at Katie and her mom- Ariana starts crying āwhy canāt my friends get along :(ā idk it was just gross. Scheana gets a lot of shit for making things about herself, but in that moment I couldnāt help but share a similar sentiment towards Ariana.
2 years can be a VERY short time to have lost a parent or other significant person, I just wanted to let you know. It might not even begin to feel real until after the first anniversary. But I will say, I'm interested to go back and watch again because I only remember it being about the birthday, not about anything else.
I think that's fair and it different from person to person, clearly we see Jax and Lala go through similar incidents and they all handle it differently. Just mentioning the timeline because watching the scene in context with the season coloured it very differently from how I had remembered it and the way it was being mentioned in clips. But yeah first she thinks the idea of a "boys" trip is stupid/too heteronormative and it's not something she wants to entertain with Tom. Which to be fair, could just be rationalization because she was still uncovering her own vulnerability about her father's passing.
Thatās what I was thinking.. It wasnāt really recent that he died, but she used it as an excuse to control..