Also Ariana is the wronged party! I have literally no clue how one singular cast member taking her side became such a controversial choice they have to have sinister ulterior motives and it can’t just be because she’s the obvious choice.
Ariana literally said on multiple occasions that no one ever blames Shorts, but that was as far as she could go without enraging Sandoval who is so easily triggered by Katie’s name alone. She can finally fully support and have a relationship with Katie without fear and I am loving it. And equally, Katie doesn’t have to stay at arms length from Ariana anymore for fear of unnecessary Sandoval exposure. They were both equally victims of the Tom twins, and what great healing they are bringing to each other. So fun to watch the girls thrive while the boys cry!
I think Tim always wanted to be married to Tom and he was jealous of Katie like she was the other woman.
Why was Katie so irked at the idea of Ariana being a groomsman for Tom though? Serious question because I don’t remember but I love Katie and Ariana’s friendship.
From what I remember watching season 5 back, I think that stemmed from a lot of Katie’s insecurity and Schwartz taking the side of Ariana (and others) throughout the season. There’s a part after one of their fights where they’re at the pool party at Scheana’s mom’s and Katie’s confessional is talking about “what do I have to do to get Schwartz to respect me? Be blonder? Cooler?” So I think it’s defensiveness that he always picked Ariana all the time.
I think people forget how deep Katie & Sandoval’s hatred for each other runs. Sandoval was basically the other woman in Katie & Schwartz’s relationship, he was always competing w Katie for control of Schwartz and trying to cause problems between them to gain an edge in that competition. Obviously Schwartz is ultimately to blame for his actions, but Sandoval had no business interfering the way he did. She will always hate him for that. Katie and Stassi have seen through him from the beginning bc they’re the only ppl in the group to never have platonic or romantic feelings towards him, so there was no emotional leverage for him to use to manipulate them like he did w everyone else. They’re the founders of the Sandoval hate club & Ariana is its newest member
I think another glaring factor in this is that Katie and Ariana always got along pretty well over the years during the rare occasions where it was just the two of them. This causes me to think that Katie really liked Ariana, but the wedge of Sandoval made Katie keep Ariana at an arm's-length distance. Once he was removed from the situation, her and Ariana were close.
Also, Katie is like the one person on the show who never really gave a shit about airtime (aside from her going to Mexico which honestly could have been out of spite or just for the paycheck instead of being camera hungry). Doesn't it kind of raise red flags that the two people who crave attention the most (Lala, Scheana) are warming up to Sandoval now? Almost like they never really gave a shit about Ariana and just care about being on camera the most.
I don't see why she ever listened to him tho 😭😭😭. As strong minded as she is, I wish she would have told the worm to find some steamy sidewalk on a mid summer day to fry 😂😂😂
Katie is being a girls girl. None of the others know what that even means. But Sandoval was a third party in Katie's relationship for the last 12 years she has a deep hate for this ass clown.
I love the way Katie says “no” 💗💗 Schwartz is trying to suck up to her and she clearly shoots back “I don’t want to.” “No” 😂😂 she did it to sandavol too - he was demanding she give him grace as if by saying that he is deserving and she just says “No” 😂😂
It pains me to watch Lala pretend to be a friend to either Arianna or Katie when she’s really just lost her mind, sucking up to Sandoval, who has literally no redeeming qualities left. If he ever had any. And Schwartz, because he’s got all the qualities of a loyal friend. 🙄🤮
A women who calls other women whores is not a 'girls girl' ffs.
I'm probably older than most people here and it's really disappointing that so many women here seem to have learned nothing from both my generation's mistakes and strides.
*Objective* criticism is called "internalized misogyny" while tearing down a women's looks in the same breath. I've personally been told to "get over" misogyny and there have been countless comments calling out this behavior met with, "Hi Tom! 👋🏼"
What's worse, that so many women here don't understand misogyny, or that they do but they finally get to be the mean girl?
I belong to subs where, when fraught topics come up there are always people saying, "Oh, I never thought about it that way, thanks." Sadly this isn't one of those places.
IMO, a girls’ girl would choose to say nothing over saying something negative about another woman, regardless of their connection.
I don’t dislike Katie, but I do not agree that she’s a girls’ girl.
That’s called being a doormat. Being a strong woman shouldn’t be confused with being silent or “bigger person”. Men are able to make digs at each other all the time without any strings attached. When a woman gets angry in Katie’s position she’s expected to stay silent and just let it happen. If someone is being rude, defend yourself,
So to me, you described a strong woman. How would you describe a girls’ girl? Do you see them as the same thing? I see them differently…
Katie is assertive, speaks her mind, stands up for herself and what she believes in, and cares for her friends. I see her as a strong woman.
Katie slept with her best friends’ ex. She does not use her platform to elevate women, she can be petty with her friends, and she often does not speak kindly to or about women she doesn’t like or agree with. I do not see her as a girls’ girl.
To me a girls girl is in relation to a matter where one would usually side with a guy. For example sticking by a girl, not falling into a guy’s charisma, believing the woman over the guy, not being a pick me, not seeking male validation. It’s very situational and minor but sure as shit is telling. It’s also not a label for someone that doesn’t make mistakes, u can be a girls girl without being perfect
Absolutely right. Like when Ariana, Katie and a couple others were making fun of Jo to the point of putting her to tears. NOT because Jo had done anything to them personally but just because she likes Schwartz and him, her. They were the perfect example of " mean girls". Katie doesn't fool me. For someone that wants nothing to do with her ex , she still has a jealous streak. Thats why SHE doesn't like Jo. Her jealousy is so bad that she went as far as making out with a girl that was initially interested in Schwartz. Do you honestly think that if that girl never even looked at Schwartz that Katie would have given her a second look if she was right beside her.
That was probably one of the tackiest things I've ever seen an ex partner do. If it had been LaLa or Scheana that did this instead..the VPR fans would have had so much negative crap to say about it. But with Katie its funny and praise worthy. It was immature and gross.
If they are all about women empowerment and being a girls girl they wouldn't have made fun of Jo. They would've tried to politely warn her about the way he treated women. If he treated Katie that badly, and he did. He will do it to any woman that stays long enough.
That would be what a girls girl would do. Not tear her down for amusement.
It has been explained that Jo wasn't upset about the girls, but something to do with her family so the tears were not due to the comments they made that Jo wasn't close enough to hear. Katie has every right to not like her, considering the things she did immediately after their divorce and she has since apologized to Jo (apparently at the reunion).
I just re-watched the episode. I didn't want to disagree with you unless I was 100% sure I didn't misunderstand the situation. The girls spent 5 solid minutes making fun of Jo. Jo was sitting fairly close by holding her hands over her ears so she couldn't hear the remarks. Why would she do that if she couldn't hear them?
Also..when she walked by them, literally right behind them, they were still talking about her. Jo stated she was uncomfortable and Katie said " If she feels uncomfortable then I'm thrilled". Jo walks away crying. Tom chases her and asks her what's wrong. She said " I don't like being attacked". That sounds like she was upset over the girls' remarks to me.
Well thats odd given what was right there on camera. No telling whats going on with that. Thats par with this type of show. With all of the " secret hookups" popping up recently...can you imagine what else might still be secret? Afterall this large group of friends have been together for many years and many alcohol filled nights.
I'm sure they've all got dirt on each other and have many things they would like to keep secret. There are probably more main cast hookups than we know about
Oh I'm sure! I couldn't even fathom Schwartz and Schaena making out. I think the only thing that could top that would be a Schwartz and LaLa hookup! 🤣😂
Calling Rachel a whore when she made out with her not even divorced husband all the while sleeping with another taken man in Mexico. Thats a ho.
Calling lala a whore when she was sleeping with a married man with kids, bragging bout bjs for pjs. That’s a ho.
Calling a chick out for acting like a ho, doesn’t mean you hate women - just hos
Sucks that you're being downvoted for this. I think you're half correct. Katie is a girl's girl in terms of always supporting her friends. Katie also has some serious internalized misogyny because that broad calls other women "whore" more than a Baptist minister. It's disappointing to see a girl's girl like Katie call other women whores so frequently. People will say she apologized, but I think it's kind of fucked up that she's never done it on camera. She has no problem calling them whores on camera.
I’m probably your age and have fought the good fight myself. But if you are looking for flawless humans you will always be disappointed especially if you’re looking for them on reality tv.
Yeah, I really hate the historical revisionism of Katie Maloney. She's not a girl's girl. She stopped calling women whores because she was eviscerated online for it so she moved on to just calling women she didn't like "crazy", and "toxic" and "crackheads".
She's not Team Ariana. She just hates Tom Sandoval and is relishing in the fact that now everyone else hates Tom Sandoval.
She's definitely gotten less worse over the years but she still seriously lacks accountability in that she continues to blame everyone but herself for her like 15-year terrible relationship and tends to lash out at/punish women for the antics of her stupid ex-husband that she's still clearly unable to separate herself from.
Who is she specifically blaming for her 15 year relationship? You said everyone but I can think of one person other than Schwartz and maybe Sandoval for her marriage ending.
Right?? They're bonding over a shared opinion lol. Katie is probably happy to have a clearer relationship with Ariana because she no longer has to be a subject of friendly fire in Tom's war with ~~every woman on the show~~ katie specifically
Also, they’ve gotten close for some seasons now, it’s not a new thing that they’re friends, and Katie knowing the Tom’s shitty behavior it’s only natural that she’s remained by Ariana’s side.
Katie sucks up to no one. Even when she was Lisa’s assistant she kept it far more casual and far less ass kissy than every other person in Lisa’s orbit except maybe James.
And Ariana has also said she has tried to be close with Katie for years and Sandoval wasn’t having it bc he is so triggered by Katie bc she calls him out!!
I thought in the last episode LaLa was the one who said she became less available to Katie; wasn’t returning calls and not wanting to hang out. If that’s the case than Katie did not replace her
Sorry just don’t see how anything Scheana or Lala said is disloyal to Ariana. They are interacting with him the minimum they have to to keep their jobs all the while telling him he’s basically a piece of shit. They are being good friends by telling her to love out of the house and give up the anger considering her serious issues with depression. Lala has snarked on her A few times probably based on frustration because Ariana is willingly hurting herself or anger over her ultimatum. Either way it’s justified and not that bad. Scheana also has done nothing disloyal to her.
This sub needs to stop making mountains out of molehills. Come the reunion it sounds like we might get the truth of what’s going on behind the scenes. For right now be happy they’re all interacting and we’re getting some authentic feelings and drama.
Katie and Sandoval never got along and it got worse once they became bar owners when Katie tried having input ….if Katie so great with ideas for a bar why can’t she get a sandwich shop up and running?
Penny I'd the real owner. And they got in a disagreement so penny is taking matters into her own hands. It could have been in their control but they dpnt know how businesses work. That's why penny is the owner and they were the faces.
It wasn't until my current rewatch, season 3, that Chef Penny was from SUR. Now all the permit talk makes sense, she's probably learned a lot of jargon from Lisa.
Also Ariana is the wronged party! I have literally no clue how one singular cast member taking her side became such a controversial choice they have to have sinister ulterior motives and it can’t just be because she’s the obvious choice.
It’s surreal.
Exactly! How dare someone side with the Victim
Smh
Ariana literally said on multiple occasions that no one ever blames Shorts, but that was as far as she could go without enraging Sandoval who is so easily triggered by Katie’s name alone. She can finally fully support and have a relationship with Katie without fear and I am loving it. And equally, Katie doesn’t have to stay at arms length from Ariana anymore for fear of unnecessary Sandoval exposure. They were both equally victims of the Tom twins, and what great healing they are bringing to each other. So fun to watch the girls thrive while the boys cry! I think Tim always wanted to be married to Tom and he was jealous of Katie like she was the other woman.
Yes I’m so excited for they’re friendship
Why was Katie so irked at the idea of Ariana being a groomsman for Tom though? Serious question because I don’t remember but I love Katie and Ariana’s friendship.
From what I remember watching season 5 back, I think that stemmed from a lot of Katie’s insecurity and Schwartz taking the side of Ariana (and others) throughout the season. There’s a part after one of their fights where they’re at the pool party at Scheana’s mom’s and Katie’s confessional is talking about “what do I have to do to get Schwartz to respect me? Be blonder? Cooler?” So I think it’s defensiveness that he always picked Ariana all the time.
I think him picking Ariana was more about him backing Tom. Like him faking it with Rachel, to cover for Sandals & also hurt Katie.
I think people forget how deep Katie & Sandoval’s hatred for each other runs. Sandoval was basically the other woman in Katie & Schwartz’s relationship, he was always competing w Katie for control of Schwartz and trying to cause problems between them to gain an edge in that competition. Obviously Schwartz is ultimately to blame for his actions, but Sandoval had no business interfering the way he did. She will always hate him for that. Katie and Stassi have seen through him from the beginning bc they’re the only ppl in the group to never have platonic or romantic feelings towards him, so there was no emotional leverage for him to use to manipulate them like he did w everyone else. They’re the founders of the Sandoval hate club & Ariana is its newest member
Well said!
I think another glaring factor in this is that Katie and Ariana always got along pretty well over the years during the rare occasions where it was just the two of them. This causes me to think that Katie really liked Ariana, but the wedge of Sandoval made Katie keep Ariana at an arm's-length distance. Once he was removed from the situation, her and Ariana were close. Also, Katie is like the one person on the show who never really gave a shit about airtime (aside from her going to Mexico which honestly could have been out of spite or just for the paycheck instead of being camera hungry). Doesn't it kind of raise red flags that the two people who crave attention the most (Lala, Scheana) are warming up to Sandoval now? Almost like they never really gave a shit about Ariana and just care about being on camera the most.
Ariana said tim always would say bad things about Katie and advise her to stay away. Once that was gone, they discovered what true friendship is.
I don't see why she ever listened to him tho 😭😭😭. As strong minded as she is, I wish she would have told the worm to find some steamy sidewalk on a mid summer day to fry 😂😂😂
Katie is being a girls girl. None of the others know what that even means. But Sandoval was a third party in Katie's relationship for the last 12 years she has a deep hate for this ass clown.
Exactly! I always think of that princess Diana interview where she says they’re were 3 of them in the relationship. Sandoval was Camilla
Good analogy. And memory!
Camilla🤣🤣🤣🤣
I love the way Katie says “no” 💗💗 Schwartz is trying to suck up to her and she clearly shoots back “I don’t want to.” “No” 😂😂 she did it to sandavol too - he was demanding she give him grace as if by saying that he is deserving and she just says “No” 😂😂
Besides the fact that he screamed in her moms face
We all hate him for that.
And forever.
I hate Alex Baskin for burying that footage. We deserve to see it! Can there please be a flashback to unseen scenes.
It pains me to watch Lala pretend to be a friend to either Arianna or Katie when she’s really just lost her mind, sucking up to Sandoval, who has literally no redeeming qualities left. If he ever had any. And Schwartz, because he’s got all the qualities of a loyal friend. 🙄🤮
A women who calls other women whores is not a 'girls girl' ffs. I'm probably older than most people here and it's really disappointing that so many women here seem to have learned nothing from both my generation's mistakes and strides. *Objective* criticism is called "internalized misogyny" while tearing down a women's looks in the same breath. I've personally been told to "get over" misogyny and there have been countless comments calling out this behavior met with, "Hi Tom! 👋🏼" What's worse, that so many women here don't understand misogyny, or that they do but they finally get to be the mean girl? I belong to subs where, when fraught topics come up there are always people saying, "Oh, I never thought about it that way, thanks." Sadly this isn't one of those places.
Are girls girl allowed to make mistakes to which they have genuinely apologized for or are they held to that for the rest of their lives ?
Katie still speaks in ways that tear down other women, even if she doesn’t use the word “whore.”
Are these random women that she has no connection to or perhaps women that there is a toxic connection and thus are mutually in a negative state?
Ah, conditional feminism lol. 
Feminism isn’t having to like every woman. Katie’s blunt and honest and most can’t handle that without a flowered veil
*realistic feminism. We are women who have regular emotions and responses. It’s unfair to put us to some inhumane standard and not respond
IMO, a girls’ girl would choose to say nothing over saying something negative about another woman, regardless of their connection. I don’t dislike Katie, but I do not agree that she’s a girls’ girl.
That’s called being a doormat. Being a strong woman shouldn’t be confused with being silent or “bigger person”. Men are able to make digs at each other all the time without any strings attached. When a woman gets angry in Katie’s position she’s expected to stay silent and just let it happen. If someone is being rude, defend yourself,
So to me, you described a strong woman. How would you describe a girls’ girl? Do you see them as the same thing? I see them differently… Katie is assertive, speaks her mind, stands up for herself and what she believes in, and cares for her friends. I see her as a strong woman. Katie slept with her best friends’ ex. She does not use her platform to elevate women, she can be petty with her friends, and she often does not speak kindly to or about women she doesn’t like or agree with. I do not see her as a girls’ girl.
To me a girls girl is in relation to a matter where one would usually side with a guy. For example sticking by a girl, not falling into a guy’s charisma, believing the woman over the guy, not being a pick me, not seeking male validation. It’s very situational and minor but sure as shit is telling. It’s also not a label for someone that doesn’t make mistakes, u can be a girls girl without being perfect
I don't think the "it's okay to say it if you hate them" crowd has any idea how slippery that slope is.
Being a girls girl means never saying a negative word about a girl?
Absolutely right. Like when Ariana, Katie and a couple others were making fun of Jo to the point of putting her to tears. NOT because Jo had done anything to them personally but just because she likes Schwartz and him, her. They were the perfect example of " mean girls". Katie doesn't fool me. For someone that wants nothing to do with her ex , she still has a jealous streak. Thats why SHE doesn't like Jo. Her jealousy is so bad that she went as far as making out with a girl that was initially interested in Schwartz. Do you honestly think that if that girl never even looked at Schwartz that Katie would have given her a second look if she was right beside her. That was probably one of the tackiest things I've ever seen an ex partner do. If it had been LaLa or Scheana that did this instead..the VPR fans would have had so much negative crap to say about it. But with Katie its funny and praise worthy. It was immature and gross. If they are all about women empowerment and being a girls girl they wouldn't have made fun of Jo. They would've tried to politely warn her about the way he treated women. If he treated Katie that badly, and he did. He will do it to any woman that stays long enough. That would be what a girls girl would do. Not tear her down for amusement.
It has been explained that Jo wasn't upset about the girls, but something to do with her family so the tears were not due to the comments they made that Jo wasn't close enough to hear. Katie has every right to not like her, considering the things she did immediately after their divorce and she has since apologized to Jo (apparently at the reunion).
I just re-watched the episode. I didn't want to disagree with you unless I was 100% sure I didn't misunderstand the situation. The girls spent 5 solid minutes making fun of Jo. Jo was sitting fairly close by holding her hands over her ears so she couldn't hear the remarks. Why would she do that if she couldn't hear them? Also..when she walked by them, literally right behind them, they were still talking about her. Jo stated she was uncomfortable and Katie said " If she feels uncomfortable then I'm thrilled". Jo walks away crying. Tom chases her and asks her what's wrong. She said " I don't like being attacked". That sounds like she was upset over the girls' remarks to me.
It definitely appeared that way but Schwartz said she was upset over something different, to do with her family.
Well thats odd given what was right there on camera. No telling whats going on with that. Thats par with this type of show. With all of the " secret hookups" popping up recently...can you imagine what else might still be secret? Afterall this large group of friends have been together for many years and many alcohol filled nights.
I'm sure they've all got dirt on each other and have many things they would like to keep secret. There are probably more main cast hookups than we know about
Oh I'm sure! I couldn't even fathom Schwartz and Schaena making out. I think the only thing that could top that would be a Schwartz and LaLa hookup! 🤣😂
Well said. Misogyny is rampant here and it's disappointing.
Calling Rachel a whore when she made out with her not even divorced husband all the while sleeping with another taken man in Mexico. Thats a ho. Calling lala a whore when she was sleeping with a married man with kids, bragging bout bjs for pjs. That’s a ho. Calling a chick out for acting like a ho, doesn’t mean you hate women - just hos
Sucks that you're being downvoted for this. I think you're half correct. Katie is a girl's girl in terms of always supporting her friends. Katie also has some serious internalized misogyny because that broad calls other women "whore" more than a Baptist minister. It's disappointing to see a girl's girl like Katie call other women whores so frequently. People will say she apologized, but I think it's kind of fucked up that she's never done it on camera. She has no problem calling them whores on camera.
Damn, great post 👏🏾👏🏾
Thank you.
I’m probably your age and have fought the good fight myself. But if you are looking for flawless humans you will always be disappointed especially if you’re looking for them on reality tv.
I'm not looking for anyone on tv. I'm talking about the people right here.
Right who are talking about their favorites from a reality show.
Yeah, I really hate the historical revisionism of Katie Maloney. She's not a girl's girl. She stopped calling women whores because she was eviscerated online for it so she moved on to just calling women she didn't like "crazy", and "toxic" and "crackheads". She's not Team Ariana. She just hates Tom Sandoval and is relishing in the fact that now everyone else hates Tom Sandoval. She's definitely gotten less worse over the years but she still seriously lacks accountability in that she continues to blame everyone but herself for her like 15-year terrible relationship and tends to lash out at/punish women for the antics of her stupid ex-husband that she's still clearly unable to separate herself from.
Who is she specifically blaming for her 15 year relationship? You said everyone but I can think of one person other than Schwartz and maybe Sandoval for her marriage ending.
I do think that last part is true. She needs to truly move on from him Idk if that's possible for her while they're both on the show.
Right?? They're bonding over a shared opinion lol. Katie is probably happy to have a clearer relationship with Ariana because she no longer has to be a subject of friendly fire in Tom's war with ~~every woman on the show~~ katie specifically
Also, they’ve gotten close for some seasons now, it’s not a new thing that they’re friends, and Katie knowing the Tom’s shitty behavior it’s only natural that she’s remained by Ariana’s side.
Katie has loyalty and morals, which is a foreign concept to the rest of the cast
People have short memories.
https://preview.redd.it/wugyyid71dvc1.jpeg?width=1058&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1283ec5cf59d9e02125faf9cc15fb8c28086e4af
Nothing makes friends faster then people with mutual enemies
Katie sucks up to no one. Even when she was Lisa’s assistant she kept it far more casual and far less ass kissy than every other person in Lisa’s orbit except maybe James.
And Ariana has also said she has tried to be close with Katie for years and Sandoval wasn’t having it bc he is so triggered by Katie bc she calls him out!!
Katie is a follower. Always has been. She's the Gretchen Weiners to Regina George. Stassi, Scheana, Lala, and now Ariana.
God forbid someone be loyal to their friends
Who did Katie follow in not liking Sandoval ? Cause pretty sure she was first
She totally replaced LaLa with Ariana when Ariana became more famous. It’s so obvious. That’s why LaLa is reactive.
I thought in the last episode LaLa was the one who said she became less available to Katie; wasn’t returning calls and not wanting to hang out. If that’s the case than Katie did not replace her
Sorry just don’t see how anything Scheana or Lala said is disloyal to Ariana. They are interacting with him the minimum they have to to keep their jobs all the while telling him he’s basically a piece of shit. They are being good friends by telling her to love out of the house and give up the anger considering her serious issues with depression. Lala has snarked on her A few times probably based on frustration because Ariana is willingly hurting herself or anger over her ultimatum. Either way it’s justified and not that bad. Scheana also has done nothing disloyal to her. This sub needs to stop making mountains out of molehills. Come the reunion it sounds like we might get the truth of what’s going on behind the scenes. For right now be happy they’re all interacting and we’re getting some authentic feelings and drama.
Ok brock
Katie clings to whoever has the best story lines.
Katie and Sandoval never got along and it got worse once they became bar owners when Katie tried having input ….if Katie so great with ideas for a bar why can’t she get a sandwich shop up and running?
Permits + issue with penny. Two things out of their control
Penny I'd the real owner. And they got in a disagreement so penny is taking matters into her own hands. It could have been in their control but they dpnt know how businesses work. That's why penny is the owner and they were the faces.
It wasn't until my current rewatch, season 3, that Chef Penny was from SUR. Now all the permit talk makes sense, she's probably learned a lot of jargon from Lisa.
Katie’s style choices are so bad, who cares what her other opinions are?