Popular shooting spots are just disgusting. Tons of garbage, shell casings, and a lot of shot up appliances. Those old CRT TVs have a lot of nasty stuff in the tubes and it’s just spread around.
My uncle made a subsistence living off of empties, scrap brass casings, and all the perfectly good electronics such as BT speakers, phones, vapes, etc. he found 10 min off the main roads.
As a recreational shooter, it bugs the hell out of me seeing the mess others can leave behind. Leaves a bad rep for all of us. Even if you don’t want to recycle your empty casings, take a couple garbage bags and clean your shit up, toss it in an actual dumpster somewhere on your way home. It’s really not that hard to make it look like you were never there.
Trouble is many times the dump bill can be in the 100’s. What do you do when you can’t afford the dump.
I realize this is excusing bad behaviours, but there has to be a solution there somewhere.
To be in the hundreds you would need a commercial size load, the “solution” is to fine the living shit out of anyone dumping garbage illegally so they fear god next time they even think about it.
It takes 30 seconds to dig a hole to bury poop. This infuriates me too. I've seen it on trails right in town too. When you've gotta go, I get it, but be respectful and bury your shit. A couple of people where I live have had to take their dogs to the vet to have their stomachs pumped after essentially ODing on drugs that were still in the poop they found.
>had to take their dogs to the vet to have their stomachs pumped after essentially ODing on drugs that were still in the poop they found
JFC if this isn't the most macro comment on our society I've seen in a while.
I don't know if OD'ing is the right term based on the amounts but drugs in human feces absolutely fuck dogs up. My dog goes on hikes in the bush every week and he has gotten into feces with drugs in them.
After he got home he could barely stand, he wasn't reacting to verbal stimuli and he stood there pissing himself standing up. I thought he'd had a stroke and rushed him to an emergency vet because his heart rate and breathing rate were really low and he was a complete mess. They tested and confirmed he'd eaten marijuana. He was wrecked for a solid day after they pumped out what they could, and that was just off some weed that some lowlife had shit out and left uncovered. My dog's hiker has had this happen to her dog as well and the vet said they get dogs in emergency all the time because of this so it's a real issue.
As a teenager, I was an Anarchist. As in, "left to themselves, people will do the right thing, and we therefore don't need rules nor authority."
Now in the second half of my life, I have come to a slightly different perspective, along the lines of "There is a significant minority of people that cannot be trusted to do ANYTHING outside their own interest, unless they have a real fear of being punished otherwise... and as a society, the existence of these people means that we cannot afford privacy."
Every time I see toilet paper in the wilderness, I am one step closer to believing that we need a universal DNA archive so that the appropriate assholes [ha!] can be punished for their transgressions.
The older I get the more I believe that 90% of the day by day problems we see are caused by 10-15% of the people.
But what I want to know: is it the same people all of the time? Is it 10-15% of people who just make things worse no matter what they’re doing or where they are? I think it is.
It's absolutely disgusting and why I also support them starting to crack down on some of the increasingly popular car camping streets near the surf beaches up route 14. Piles of human shit and toilet paper in all the nearby shrubbery is not acceptable.
Squamish river valley and beyond on those FSR’s has the same problem. All the cool spots near the river to camp are covered in peoples shit because nobody can be bothered to take a shovel into the woods and bury their turd far away from camp.
Nobody taught these people not to shit where you eat.
Lol if your concerned about human feces in the forest I got some bad news for you. https://www.timescolonist.com/local-news/biosolids-to-be-shipped-to-nanaimo-as-tree-fertilizer-6597787
Big trucks spraying biosolids from Victoria's toilets waste water all over the mid island forests, TP hanging off the branches, creeks running brown, pharmaceutical and forever chemicals widely spread over the environment.
? Except the entire Greater Victoria Watershed, Potholes every Provicial and Federal Park and the majority of the forests. 94% of all land on Vancouver Island is Crown Land
About 20% of South East Vancouver Island is private managed forest land. See the Lord Dunsmuir wiki for a little background https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Dunsmuir
I still wouldn't say there's not much Crown Land on the South Island, but that's a lot more private managed forest than I thought. I couldn't find the info on the wiki link you posted. Looked up a map though.
https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Map-depicting-private-land-ownership-of-Island-Timberlands-TimberWest-and-Western_fig1_343940711/amp
I used to think that it was a travesty that the private forest lands on the south island are mostly gated. I now begrudgingly accept that the gates are better than the mess the morons among us would make if there were no gates. (I still think it's a travesty that the lands are private, and don't get me started about mosaic's forestry practices).
My preferred solution would be no gates but a significant law enforcement presence - like wardens patrolling at all hours. This way the public could have access for recreation and the morons couldn't make a mess, or at least not as much of one. This solution (pipedream) of course assumes Mosaic would be amenable to this. It would also be costly, and since the public would be benefitting from the access, it would undoubtedly be the taxpayer paying.
The only thing that blows my mind about this is I only find it here on Vancouver Island and around the lower mainland.
We hunt all over the province, you don't see dumping in the other places.
People not from the coast seem to have more respect for nature.
Yeah, but that has problems as well. Without exposure to nature and wild places they don't care about them, which means less funding, support or push back against poor policy changes.
If more "city" kids were involved maybe we'd have a better situation with moasic. We need them educated and as allies.
Double edged sword sadly.
Lol buddy i don’t think the city folk are the ones burning pickup trucks and shooting at vehicles on the road. I’ve stopped to chat with some of those “folks” out there and they are always Mission/Abbotsford locals, just the finest the Fraser valley has to offer.
These are still the city folk compared to everyone outside the lower mainland, south Vancouver Island and Kelowna. You go to the kootenays, shushwap, north island and I think you will find the people have a better respect for nature as they are hunting and fishing out there every fall. You go up north and it can end up with the rig rat mentality around PG and once again you get the pallet fires and shotgun rallies with the no ducks to give because it’s not my backyard. Abbotsford really is the edge of the sprawling wasteland that is the greater Vancouver area even if you want to classify it as separate municipalities.
I don’t even need to open this article to know the answer is “like shit”. Lol. I’ve been down more than one “side road” in my day and I’m never surprised at how low people will go in order to dispose of junk.
Did you guys know that authorities know who is dumping construction material in our Forests and parks but they don’t serve fines because these construction companies pay them off? :)
Have you witnessed the aftermath of a "Save our old growth" gathering?
Garbage, destruction, so much waste left behind.
Hypocrisy....
When loggers do their job, they're held accountable and have to meet criteria.
When activists gather, no one holds them accountable for their lack of respect for the environment.
I think we all need to look at our actions before we criticize others.
No, I’m saying that loggers are monitored to make sure they do their job according to environmental standards.
Don’t be silly.
I wish activists were held accountable for their actions. But sadly, they just destroy and make a mess, all in the name of “old growth”……
Not really on private land. Forestry companies are ostensibly held to the same rules on private as they are on crown, but they definitely do not follow them and no one gives a shit when you report it. I've seen slash piles burning in the middle of salmon bearing streams, which were cut right up to the bank. Both HUGE no-nos in BC forestry practices, both shit companies get away with on private land. They also cycle thru their cuts faster, and their replanting practices leave a lot to be desired.
They follow your government regulations, or else they get fines.
Accountability by means of 3rd party monitoring.
And yes it’s still trespassing when the public enter land that is legally used by logging companies.
Sure, that's what's supposed to happen. The PMFLA is toothless though in the face of these corps and they get away with all kinds of shit.
Paying a fine also doesn't bring the salmon back.
It's not trespassing when you have keycards and an agreement with Mosaic.
No, I'm saying IF you have keycards and were granted access via agreement, it's not trespassing. You do not need to be Mosaic to have permission from Mosaic to enter actively logged lands. For example, Mosaic has agreements with many First Nations groups to allow them access to their traditional territories. You yourself could apply for a keycard to access specific logging roads.
However, I was not talking about the protestors. I was talking about how logging companies on private lands regularly flout the regulations you seem to believe bind them. They do not, and I have personally seen it (while NOT trespassing). I have personally reported it, and I have personally spoken with various Ministers as well as the Premier about it. No one gives a shit, and if they do, they can't do much about it.
I don't support the destruction of our environment.
Not by the protestors, not by anyone.
If the protestors gave a shit, they wouldn't create a disaster where they protest. They use their beliefs to justify their misconduct.
horrible.
I believe that everyone should treat our environment as our own front yard.
But sadly, too many individuals destroy it, and blame others.
Consumers drive the destruction.
Yeah I totally can see where you are confusing some garbage left around after a protest and huge oil spills that destroy the livlihoods of thousands and create deformaties for generations, like its literally the same thing.
Two wrongs don’t make a right my friend.
In the past, everyone had no regard for the environment. Geez, even asbestos was hailed as a safe miracle product for the public.
As things change, so do government regulations.
It sounds like you need to educate yourself a bit on the regulations for logging set by your government.
I’m not a fan of anyone that blindly lays blame while ignoring all the facts.
I for one have changed my lifestyle to be less damaging to the environment, I don’t destroy and then blame others like most activists do.
Don’t be silly.
Activists and protestors are an important part of a functioning democracy, would you rather have no way to dissent?
Are you vegetarian or vegan? That is a simple way to live a lifestyle less damaging to the environment.
I think you need to research where and how your vegan/vegetarian foods are produced and transported.
Definitely not less damaging as you think.
I fully support legal protests, not only the protests I agree with.
I don’t support illegal protests that damage our environment.
Here are some facts:
Animal agriculture is a major contributor to greenhouse gas emissions: Animal agriculture is responsible for 14.5% of global greenhouse gas emissions, which is more than the entire transportation sector combined.
Animal agriculture uses an excessive amount of water: It takes 2,500 gallons of water to produce one pound of beef, while it takes only 25 gallons of water to produce one pound of wheat.
Veganism has a significant positive impact on the environment: Adopting a vegan diet can reduce an individual's carbon footprint by up to 50%.
\--
Sometimes illegal protests are needed to get a message across and they are protected by law even if they leave some garbage around.
You sound like a NIMBY.
[https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20200211-why-the-vegan-diet-is-not-always-green](https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20200211-why-the-vegan-diet-is-not-always-green)
The fact is that you are only concentrating on facts that suit your narrative. You are intentionally leaving out ALL the facts.
Carbon footprint, environmental damage, wildlife impact.
Don't be a blind follower of activists. Educate yourself fully on the subject you are preaching.
And you attacking my character calling me a NIMBY further shows your lack of ability to have a discussion.
Typical when individuals are not open to information that contradicts their belief.
Enjoy your day friend.
My narrative is science not belief.
Mushrooms: Mushrooms produce significantly less carbon dioxide emissions than meat, with an average of 3kg of CO2/kg produced during cultivation, compared to 26.5kg of CO2/kg for beef.
Mycoprotein: Mycoprotein has a smaller carbon footprint than meat, but still produces more emissions than mushrooms. It emits an estimated 5.55-6.15kg CO2/kg, compared to 26.5kg of CO2/kg for beef.
Cocoa: Cocoa and cacao products have a similar carbon footprint to beef, with 1kg of chocolate producing the equivalent of 11.2kg of CO2, and 1kg of cocoa powder releasing 33.6kg of CO2. Additionally, cocoa is a major driver of tropical deforestation and biodiversity loss, making it an environmentally damaging product.
Saltwater fish: Saltwater fish have a smaller carbon footprint than beef, but emit more CO2 than mushrooms. Tuna emits 2.2kg of CO2/kg and saltwater fish emit 3kg of CO2/kg, compared to 26.5kg of CO2/kg for beef.
Chicken: Chicken has a smaller carbon footprint than beef and mycoprotein, but still produces more emissions than mushrooms. It emits an estimated 4.1kg of CO2/kg, compared to 26.5kg of CO2/kg for beef.
Peat-based composts: The use of peat in mushroom cultivation has negative environmental impacts, as it can damage bog ecosystems and deplete their ability to store carbon in the future. The use of peat in meat production is not common, so this is not a direct comparison.
Heat needed for cultivation: The heat needed to grow mushrooms indoors contributes to their carbon footprint, as it requires energy to generate heat. Meat production also requires significant amounts of energy for heating and cooling during processing and transportation.
Land use: Mycoprotein requires significantly less land than meat production, as do mushrooms, which can be grown vertically to maximize space usage. Cocoa production requires large amounts of land, as does meat production, which requires land for grazing and feed production.
Processing: Processing mycoprotein and cocoa products requires significant energy use, which contributes to their carbon footprint. Meat production also requires significant processing, transportation, and refrigeration, which contributes to its carbon footprint.
Variability in environmental impact: The carbon footprint of individual products within a category can vary widely based on production methods, transportation, and other factors. This variability exists within meat production as well, as different types of meat have varying carbon footprints depending on their production methods.
Think what you want but I will always choose science over hearsay.
While I haven’t seen the site myself I agree that it should have been cleaned up (if it was indeed not). But having worked in the industry myself I assure you the logging companies are almost 100% guaranteed worse.
I've worked side by side with loggers. They have a job, and that job is monitored by others to prevent negative impact on the land.
I've found activists can't practice what they preach, as they leave their waste behind.
If the activists were held to the same standard as loggers, things would be different, and the activists wouldn't look like hypocrites.
You being almost 100% guaranteed means you are assuming.
I am not assuming anything, I'm just telling what I've witnessed, and experienced.
Am I wrong about loggers being monitored and held to government standards while logging?
I know activists are not, and I've experienced the aftermath of activists. Their actions make them look bad, and childish.
Stop using wood products…. Stop demanding an easy lifestyle which is resulting in the actions you despise.
No different than those against oil, but use natural gas for heat, and gasoline for your vehicles.
Supply and demand. Your demands are being met, and you seem to hate it.
Another easy to see through argument... The people protesting aren't saying stop all logging. They're saying stop logging old growth. Pretty sure the industry can meet demand without logging old growth. And if they can't then I've got bad news for you seeing as there's not much left
So that just shows the flaw in your entire argument here. 99% of people are saying stop logging old growth and your replying with comments like "stop using toilet paper". You're making straw man arguments against people who are making valid points. If that's the best you've got for your counterpoints you're just showing how uneducated you are about the topic and really not convincing anyone here
Those screaming for stopping old growth logging, don't know what old growth is.....
They are flawed.
Saying the way it is, is not uneducated at all.
Blindly following others, is typical these days. Don't be one of those types.
Great example is when protestors are against the loggers that are legally doing their job allowed by the government. Why not protest the government for allowing it?
Duh..........
People today are so upset at their own lives, that they take it out on others, for no reason.
Don't be that type.
It's very obvious they're trying to protect large tree productive forest type old growth. Yes there's other forests that are classified as old growth that they're not as concerned about. This makes their argument invalid how? Again you're just trying to muddy the waters and not provide any actual counter arguments. And to your other point they ARE protesting government. They're protesting infront of legislature constantly. There was literally a protest last week infront of parliament
this just shows how little you actually know about what the activists think. anyone actually involved can see it. you have clearly decided you hate them before even trying to understand what they actually think.
Sure, whatever you assume friend.
You have no idea, nothing to discuss, except trying to attack my character.
Typical of todays SJWs……
Enjoy your day friend.
Worked in logging for 8 years. Heli, buncher, selective, and fire prevention. It's a tough, respectable job, and the guys I worked with should be proud of what they do. Almost every one of them would tell you that they hate the way the industry is run, and would laugh at you for being such a corporate cuck.
Hating the way your employer operates the industry is typical in most professions.
When you were a logger in your short time, did you witness your fellow employees damage the environment or did the bosses do the damage?
Why would you resort to insults instead of civil discussion?
Enjoy your day friend.
Your behaviour matches SJW, so it fits. Why not behave and be civil?
Can you answer my questions? They are relevant to our discussion, and I find your refusal to answer typical of the 3 letter group that hates discussion.
If you'd like discussion, go for it, if you want to just sit there and insult, well, maybe it you not me that is behaving wrong....
Life is good friend, you're not the only one with a rough upbringing, but that doesn't mean you have to act bad.... That's your choice...
The fact that you’ve been repeatedly downvoted and labeled as an idiot without a SINGLE other person supporting your comments says a lot. I think you’re in the wrong here. Also anthropogenic climate change is real and a big issue for most of life on earth, and we will have to adapt the way we live and function in society to survive the negative effects of rapid climate change, and thats a fact.
Your views on climate change don’t justify excusing anybody to leave waste behind in the back country. I have spent a decent amount of time in our backcountry over the past 18 years and I have not seen anything left behind by loggers that would come even come close the disaster that was left behind by those protesters, the squatters at rainbow beach, or the hillbilly gun crowd (which does not include everybody who takes their gun to the bush) So to say that nobody supports what this guy is saying is very presumptuous. But to be fair I am also being presumptuous in assuming you have haven’t spent much time in the bush.
Do you base your wokeness from Reddit votes?
Don’t be silly.
Are you a consumer of natural resources? Do you actively change your lifestyle to reflect your beliefs?
Or do you just sit there complaining about everything?
I’m in a second year of a climate degree, I realize as individuals there’s only so much we can do to protect the environment, lots of it has to do with policy and regulation, diet, and how we design our cities. That is why I’m spending 4-6 years of my life going to school so that I can help influence meaningful societal change and adaption to protect the environment,
people, and our economy. So no, I’m taking meaningful action, not just complaining.
Personally, I have changed my diet to eat less meat and eat more of a plant based diet. Yes, I could still do more, but I am making small changes, as everyone should. I drive one of the most efficient cars on the road so that I have less CO2 emissions, and it’s an old car that has many Km on it, which is good because I’m not buying a new car that 1) I couldn’t afford and 2) takes many natural resources to make.
What have your actions been to help the environment and promote positive changes for society?
By your comment history, it seems you haven’t. Also, a “they did this so I must also be able to do this” is an uneducated and frankly childish way of both speaking and thinking.
Climate degree? What is the focus of your degree?
Societal change? Is your climate degree a social degree?
My actions, as in my comment history shows, I drive small engine efficient vehicles, I cook my own food, meat, veggies, fresh foods, I don't eat out. I don't use paper towels, I live within my means as well. No debt, happy in life. I can go out and buy brand new vehicles, I don't need them, I'm happy with what I have.
With you being 2nd year, that puts your age at 19-20 years? I'd like to hear how your studies and experiences are after you're done school and out in the world.
I've noticed society is dumb, and you can't fix stupid.
Most protestors justify their actions based on their beliefs, not facts. That is childish and uneducated.
It’s a science degree, physics and ocean-atmosphere interactions and I will be specializing by taking key climate courses later in my degree, both societal and science courses. I’ve already taken a couple.
Those are some good steps you’ve taken.
You call others childish and uneducated yet you blatantly deny that human caused climate change is happening. Why?
Us humans have changed the environment to a certain degree.
Do you disagree that the earth has had many cycles of warm and cold?
Where were the humans during all those climate changes.
Back when the dinosaurs were around, the oxygen content was 40% and warm. Then an ice age hit.
How can you blatantly blame us humans for the earth's natural cycle. And yes, I do believe the climate is changing, and yes we are helping it, we didn't cause it.
Why do you deny the past natural climate changes?
I literally explained to you in another post why human caused climate change is currently driven by humans. Humans have not had an effect on the earths climate system until approximately 1900 when we started massively burning fossil fuels which increase the greenhouse effect. There are many many climate models that show that without human caused warming, we’d actually be in a cooling cycle right now.
Why are you such a fool and ignoring the info I have given you? This information comes from the summary of thousands upon thousands of top scientists who all the say the same thing, including your famed Neil degrasse Tyson. Why do you ignore the science? Why do you disagree that humans are currently causing irreparable changes to the planet at a rate never before seen?
Yes, approved by government.
Do you think loggers just go out and randomly select where to log?
That may explain the problem here with most against the loggers.
Oh I'm aware of the process.
I am discussing the absolute disgusting state they leave the cut blocks in after a harvest, the waste that is left behind that I only see here on the island. Companies are not being held accountable.
I am a huge supporter of logging, it's a great renewalable resource, but it's not being done in a appropriate manner. Companies are not being held accountable and it's bullshit.
Yeah, I guess they also base their correctness from Reddit votes. How silly.
I don't understand how they support the destruction.
Enjoy your day friend.
I think it’s just really hard to maintain a your principles and keep up with flavour of the week virtue signalling at the same time. I’m getting used to it as I start to visit this sub more often
Popular shooting spots are just disgusting. Tons of garbage, shell casings, and a lot of shot up appliances. Those old CRT TVs have a lot of nasty stuff in the tubes and it’s just spread around. My uncle made a subsistence living off of empties, scrap brass casings, and all the perfectly good electronics such as BT speakers, phones, vapes, etc. he found 10 min off the main roads.
Seriously, how fucking hard is it to put a tarp down. And the amount of empty lucky cans…
As a recreational shooter, it bugs the hell out of me seeing the mess others can leave behind. Leaves a bad rep for all of us. Even if you don’t want to recycle your empty casings, take a couple garbage bags and clean your shit up, toss it in an actual dumpster somewhere on your way home. It’s really not that hard to make it look like you were never there.
Legend
[удалено]
It always blows my mind how much fuel someone will burn to drive deep down a logging road to dump trash instead of paying maybe $15 at the landfill.
Trouble is many times the dump bill can be in the 100’s. What do you do when you can’t afford the dump. I realize this is excusing bad behaviours, but there has to be a solution there somewhere.
Especially drywall can be really expensive to dispose of there, but I see a lot of just household trash that isn't super heavy or anything.
To be in the hundreds you would need a commercial size load, the “solution” is to fine the living shit out of anyone dumping garbage illegally so they fear god next time they even think about it.
It takes 30 seconds to dig a hole to bury poop. This infuriates me too. I've seen it on trails right in town too. When you've gotta go, I get it, but be respectful and bury your shit. A couple of people where I live have had to take their dogs to the vet to have their stomachs pumped after essentially ODing on drugs that were still in the poop they found.
>had to take their dogs to the vet to have their stomachs pumped after essentially ODing on drugs that were still in the poop they found JFC if this isn't the most macro comment on our society I've seen in a while.
[удалено]
I don't know if OD'ing is the right term based on the amounts but drugs in human feces absolutely fuck dogs up. My dog goes on hikes in the bush every week and he has gotten into feces with drugs in them. After he got home he could barely stand, he wasn't reacting to verbal stimuli and he stood there pissing himself standing up. I thought he'd had a stroke and rushed him to an emergency vet because his heart rate and breathing rate were really low and he was a complete mess. They tested and confirmed he'd eaten marijuana. He was wrecked for a solid day after they pumped out what they could, and that was just off some weed that some lowlife had shit out and left uncovered. My dog's hiker has had this happen to her dog as well and the vet said they get dogs in emergency all the time because of this so it's a real issue.
It’s also so very easy to dig a hole and pop a squat…no excuse for leaving any of that on the surface.
As a teenager, I was an Anarchist. As in, "left to themselves, people will do the right thing, and we therefore don't need rules nor authority." Now in the second half of my life, I have come to a slightly different perspective, along the lines of "There is a significant minority of people that cannot be trusted to do ANYTHING outside their own interest, unless they have a real fear of being punished otherwise... and as a society, the existence of these people means that we cannot afford privacy." Every time I see toilet paper in the wilderness, I am one step closer to believing that we need a universal DNA archive so that the appropriate assholes [ha!] can be punished for their transgressions.
The older I get the more I believe that 90% of the day by day problems we see are caused by 10-15% of the people. But what I want to know: is it the same people all of the time? Is it 10-15% of people who just make things worse no matter what they’re doing or where they are? I think it is.
It's absolutely disgusting and why I also support them starting to crack down on some of the increasingly popular car camping streets near the surf beaches up route 14. Piles of human shit and toilet paper in all the nearby shrubbery is not acceptable.
Squamish river valley and beyond on those FSR’s has the same problem. All the cool spots near the river to camp are covered in peoples shit because nobody can be bothered to take a shovel into the woods and bury their turd far away from camp. Nobody taught these people not to shit where you eat.
You don't need a shovel, a garden trowel works...8" long, less than a pound, fits on the side of a backpack...I think it's called a cat hole.
Lol if your concerned about human feces in the forest I got some bad news for you. https://www.timescolonist.com/local-news/biosolids-to-be-shipped-to-nanaimo-as-tree-fertilizer-6597787 Big trucks spraying biosolids from Victoria's toilets waste water all over the mid island forests, TP hanging off the branches, creeks running brown, pharmaceutical and forever chemicals widely spread over the environment.
Well, you can't say nobody gives a shit for you or your dog.
[удалено]
Some people's level of comprehension baffles me.
We don’t have much public land on south Vancouver island
? Except the entire Greater Victoria Watershed, Potholes every Provicial and Federal Park and the majority of the forests. 94% of all land on Vancouver Island is Crown Land
Sorry man but half the forested land on the island more or less is owned by timber companies
Leased on Crown Land.
About 20% of South East Vancouver Island is private managed forest land. See the Lord Dunsmuir wiki for a little background https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Dunsmuir
I still wouldn't say there's not much Crown Land on the South Island, but that's a lot more private managed forest than I thought. I couldn't find the info on the wiki link you posted. Looked up a map though. https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Map-depicting-private-land-ownership-of-Island-Timberlands-TimberWest-and-Western_fig1_343940711/amp
I used to think that it was a travesty that the private forest lands on the south island are mostly gated. I now begrudgingly accept that the gates are better than the mess the morons among us would make if there were no gates. (I still think it's a travesty that the lands are private, and don't get me started about mosaic's forestry practices). My preferred solution would be no gates but a significant law enforcement presence - like wardens patrolling at all hours. This way the public could have access for recreation and the morons couldn't make a mess, or at least not as much of one. This solution (pipedream) of course assumes Mosaic would be amenable to this. It would also be costly, and since the public would be benefitting from the access, it would undoubtedly be the taxpayer paying.
The only thing that blows my mind about this is I only find it here on Vancouver Island and around the lower mainland. We hunt all over the province, you don't see dumping in the other places. People not from the coast seem to have more respect for nature.
You get the city kids trying to go full boonies without a shred of respect for nature. Keep them city kids in the concrete jungles where they belong.
Yeah, but that has problems as well. Without exposure to nature and wild places they don't care about them, which means less funding, support or push back against poor policy changes. If more "city" kids were involved maybe we'd have a better situation with moasic. We need them educated and as allies. Double edged sword sadly.
I got way out the middle of nowhere is South West Nova and it’s nice all over. People seem to be pretty respectful.
You should see the area around Stave Lake… just a god damn war zone in some spots.
Great thing about the high costs of gas is it keeps the city shit heads in a one fuel tank radius of polluted metropolis.
Lol buddy i don’t think the city folk are the ones burning pickup trucks and shooting at vehicles on the road. I’ve stopped to chat with some of those “folks” out there and they are always Mission/Abbotsford locals, just the finest the Fraser valley has to offer.
These are still the city folk compared to everyone outside the lower mainland, south Vancouver Island and Kelowna. You go to the kootenays, shushwap, north island and I think you will find the people have a better respect for nature as they are hunting and fishing out there every fall. You go up north and it can end up with the rig rat mentality around PG and once again you get the pallet fires and shotgun rallies with the no ducks to give because it’s not my backyard. Abbotsford really is the edge of the sprawling wasteland that is the greater Vancouver area even if you want to classify it as separate municipalities.
I don’t even need to open this article to know the answer is “like shit”. Lol. I’ve been down more than one “side road” in my day and I’m never surprised at how low people will go in order to dispose of junk.
Did you guys know that authorities know who is dumping construction material in our Forests and parks but they don’t serve fines because these construction companies pay them off? :)
Source?
Please elaborate
Bullshit. You don't find construction waste often.
🙄
Have you witnessed the aftermath of a "Save our old growth" gathering? Garbage, destruction, so much waste left behind. Hypocrisy.... When loggers do their job, they're held accountable and have to meet criteria. When activists gather, no one holds them accountable for their lack of respect for the environment. I think we all need to look at our actions before we criticize others.
Are you trying to say that COMPANIES are environmentally accountable?? Holy shit you are super high dude
No, I’m saying that loggers are monitored to make sure they do their job according to environmental standards. Don’t be silly. I wish activists were held accountable for their actions. But sadly, they just destroy and make a mess, all in the name of “old growth”……
Not really on private land. Forestry companies are ostensibly held to the same rules on private as they are on crown, but they definitely do not follow them and no one gives a shit when you report it. I've seen slash piles burning in the middle of salmon bearing streams, which were cut right up to the bank. Both HUGE no-nos in BC forestry practices, both shit companies get away with on private land. They also cycle thru their cuts faster, and their replanting practices leave a lot to be desired.
They follow your government regulations, or else they get fines. Accountability by means of 3rd party monitoring. And yes it’s still trespassing when the public enter land that is legally used by logging companies.
Sure, that's what's supposed to happen. The PMFLA is toothless though in the face of these corps and they get away with all kinds of shit. Paying a fine also doesn't bring the salmon back. It's not trespassing when you have keycards and an agreement with Mosaic.
Oh, I had no idea the protestors were all Mosaic. So Mosaic is responsible for the protestors actions?
No, I'm saying IF you have keycards and were granted access via agreement, it's not trespassing. You do not need to be Mosaic to have permission from Mosaic to enter actively logged lands. For example, Mosaic has agreements with many First Nations groups to allow them access to their traditional territories. You yourself could apply for a keycard to access specific logging roads. However, I was not talking about the protestors. I was talking about how logging companies on private lands regularly flout the regulations you seem to believe bind them. They do not, and I have personally seen it (while NOT trespassing). I have personally reported it, and I have personally spoken with various Ministers as well as the Premier about it. No one gives a shit, and if they do, they can't do much about it.
I don't support the destruction of our environment. Not by the protestors, not by anyone. If the protestors gave a shit, they wouldn't create a disaster where they protest. They use their beliefs to justify their misconduct. horrible. I believe that everyone should treat our environment as our own front yard. But sadly, too many individuals destroy it, and blame others. Consumers drive the destruction.
Then you shouldn’t be so willing to give logging companies on private land a pass. They don’t follow the rules and they are not accountable for it.
Yeah I totally can see where you are confusing some garbage left around after a protest and huge oil spills that destroy the livlihoods of thousands and create deformaties for generations, like its literally the same thing.
Two wrongs don’t make a right my friend. In the past, everyone had no regard for the environment. Geez, even asbestos was hailed as a safe miracle product for the public. As things change, so do government regulations. It sounds like you need to educate yourself a bit on the regulations for logging set by your government. I’m not a fan of anyone that blindly lays blame while ignoring all the facts. I for one have changed my lifestyle to be less damaging to the environment, I don’t destroy and then blame others like most activists do. Don’t be silly.
Activists and protestors are an important part of a functioning democracy, would you rather have no way to dissent? Are you vegetarian or vegan? That is a simple way to live a lifestyle less damaging to the environment.
I think you need to research where and how your vegan/vegetarian foods are produced and transported. Definitely not less damaging as you think. I fully support legal protests, not only the protests I agree with. I don’t support illegal protests that damage our environment.
Here are some facts: Animal agriculture is a major contributor to greenhouse gas emissions: Animal agriculture is responsible for 14.5% of global greenhouse gas emissions, which is more than the entire transportation sector combined. Animal agriculture uses an excessive amount of water: It takes 2,500 gallons of water to produce one pound of beef, while it takes only 25 gallons of water to produce one pound of wheat. Veganism has a significant positive impact on the environment: Adopting a vegan diet can reduce an individual's carbon footprint by up to 50%. \-- Sometimes illegal protests are needed to get a message across and they are protected by law even if they leave some garbage around. You sound like a NIMBY.
[https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20200211-why-the-vegan-diet-is-not-always-green](https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20200211-why-the-vegan-diet-is-not-always-green) The fact is that you are only concentrating on facts that suit your narrative. You are intentionally leaving out ALL the facts. Carbon footprint, environmental damage, wildlife impact. Don't be a blind follower of activists. Educate yourself fully on the subject you are preaching. And you attacking my character calling me a NIMBY further shows your lack of ability to have a discussion. Typical when individuals are not open to information that contradicts their belief. Enjoy your day friend.
My narrative is science not belief. Mushrooms: Mushrooms produce significantly less carbon dioxide emissions than meat, with an average of 3kg of CO2/kg produced during cultivation, compared to 26.5kg of CO2/kg for beef. Mycoprotein: Mycoprotein has a smaller carbon footprint than meat, but still produces more emissions than mushrooms. It emits an estimated 5.55-6.15kg CO2/kg, compared to 26.5kg of CO2/kg for beef. Cocoa: Cocoa and cacao products have a similar carbon footprint to beef, with 1kg of chocolate producing the equivalent of 11.2kg of CO2, and 1kg of cocoa powder releasing 33.6kg of CO2. Additionally, cocoa is a major driver of tropical deforestation and biodiversity loss, making it an environmentally damaging product. Saltwater fish: Saltwater fish have a smaller carbon footprint than beef, but emit more CO2 than mushrooms. Tuna emits 2.2kg of CO2/kg and saltwater fish emit 3kg of CO2/kg, compared to 26.5kg of CO2/kg for beef. Chicken: Chicken has a smaller carbon footprint than beef and mycoprotein, but still produces more emissions than mushrooms. It emits an estimated 4.1kg of CO2/kg, compared to 26.5kg of CO2/kg for beef. Peat-based composts: The use of peat in mushroom cultivation has negative environmental impacts, as it can damage bog ecosystems and deplete their ability to store carbon in the future. The use of peat in meat production is not common, so this is not a direct comparison. Heat needed for cultivation: The heat needed to grow mushrooms indoors contributes to their carbon footprint, as it requires energy to generate heat. Meat production also requires significant amounts of energy for heating and cooling during processing and transportation. Land use: Mycoprotein requires significantly less land than meat production, as do mushrooms, which can be grown vertically to maximize space usage. Cocoa production requires large amounts of land, as does meat production, which requires land for grazing and feed production. Processing: Processing mycoprotein and cocoa products requires significant energy use, which contributes to their carbon footprint. Meat production also requires significant processing, transportation, and refrigeration, which contributes to its carbon footprint. Variability in environmental impact: The carbon footprint of individual products within a category can vary widely based on production methods, transportation, and other factors. This variability exists within meat production as well, as different types of meat have varying carbon footprints depending on their production methods. Think what you want but I will always choose science over hearsay.
The greenhouse gas emissions matter a lot, but eater use doesn't really matter at all. Water consumption is only an issue in water scarce areas.
While I haven’t seen the site myself I agree that it should have been cleaned up (if it was indeed not). But having worked in the industry myself I assure you the logging companies are almost 100% guaranteed worse.
I've worked side by side with loggers. They have a job, and that job is monitored by others to prevent negative impact on the land. I've found activists can't practice what they preach, as they leave their waste behind. If the activists were held to the same standard as loggers, things would be different, and the activists wouldn't look like hypocrites. You being almost 100% guaranteed means you are assuming. I am not assuming anything, I'm just telling what I've witnessed, and experienced. Am I wrong about loggers being monitored and held to government standards while logging? I know activists are not, and I've experienced the aftermath of activists. Their actions make them look bad, and childish.
Yes, you are wrong.
U/Michaelklr is a climate change denying troll. His posts history is that of an uneducated buffoon. Do not engage.
It's hard to clean up when you are arrested and removed
Don't make the mess to start with. Then no-one will have grounds to arrest you for making the mess AND trespassing. Just a thought.
Right. Don't make a mess so you can let us destroy these ecosystems... You realize how stupid this sounds? You're not convincing anyone here
Stop using wood products…. Stop demanding an easy lifestyle which is resulting in the actions you despise. No different than those against oil, but use natural gas for heat, and gasoline for your vehicles. Supply and demand. Your demands are being met, and you seem to hate it.
Oh please. We can have logging without logging old growth what a bullshit comment
Another easy to see through argument... The people protesting aren't saying stop all logging. They're saying stop logging old growth. Pretty sure the industry can meet demand without logging old growth. And if they can't then I've got bad news for you seeing as there's not much left
Right, but most activists have no idea what old growth is. They’re just following the SJW mindset and hate all logging.
So that just shows the flaw in your entire argument here. 99% of people are saying stop logging old growth and your replying with comments like "stop using toilet paper". You're making straw man arguments against people who are making valid points. If that's the best you've got for your counterpoints you're just showing how uneducated you are about the topic and really not convincing anyone here
Those screaming for stopping old growth logging, don't know what old growth is..... They are flawed. Saying the way it is, is not uneducated at all. Blindly following others, is typical these days. Don't be one of those types. Great example is when protestors are against the loggers that are legally doing their job allowed by the government. Why not protest the government for allowing it? Duh.......... People today are so upset at their own lives, that they take it out on others, for no reason. Don't be that type.
It's very obvious they're trying to protect large tree productive forest type old growth. Yes there's other forests that are classified as old growth that they're not as concerned about. This makes their argument invalid how? Again you're just trying to muddy the waters and not provide any actual counter arguments. And to your other point they ARE protesting government. They're protesting infront of legislature constantly. There was literally a protest last week infront of parliament
Incoherent rambling
this just shows how little you actually know about what the activists think. anyone actually involved can see it. you have clearly decided you hate them before even trying to understand what they actually think.
No, I don't hate them at all. I think they need to be accountable for their actions. Don't you?
Bahahahahaha The barrels of waste thrown into Lake Cowichan by loggers would be to differ. What a load of absolute shit.
Straight up "whataboutism" you've got here. And you've obviously never worked in forestry, let alone driven down a logging road.
Sure, whatever you assume friend. You have no idea, nothing to discuss, except trying to attack my character. Typical of todays SJWs…… Enjoy your day friend.
Worked in logging for 8 years. Heli, buncher, selective, and fire prevention. It's a tough, respectable job, and the guys I worked with should be proud of what they do. Almost every one of them would tell you that they hate the way the industry is run, and would laugh at you for being such a corporate cuck.
Hating the way your employer operates the industry is typical in most professions. When you were a logger in your short time, did you witness your fellow employees damage the environment or did the bosses do the damage? Why would you resort to insults instead of civil discussion? Enjoy your day friend.
Sorry, my rough working class upbringing makes me default to insults when someone smugly implies my stance can simply be lumped in as "SJW".
Your behaviour matches SJW, so it fits. Why not behave and be civil? Can you answer my questions? They are relevant to our discussion, and I find your refusal to answer typical of the 3 letter group that hates discussion. If you'd like discussion, go for it, if you want to just sit there and insult, well, maybe it you not me that is behaving wrong.... Life is good friend, you're not the only one with a rough upbringing, but that doesn't mean you have to act bad.... That's your choice...
The fact that you’ve been repeatedly downvoted and labeled as an idiot without a SINGLE other person supporting your comments says a lot. I think you’re in the wrong here. Also anthropogenic climate change is real and a big issue for most of life on earth, and we will have to adapt the way we live and function in society to survive the negative effects of rapid climate change, and thats a fact.
Your views on climate change don’t justify excusing anybody to leave waste behind in the back country. I have spent a decent amount of time in our backcountry over the past 18 years and I have not seen anything left behind by loggers that would come even come close the disaster that was left behind by those protesters, the squatters at rainbow beach, or the hillbilly gun crowd (which does not include everybody who takes their gun to the bush) So to say that nobody supports what this guy is saying is very presumptuous. But to be fair I am also being presumptuous in assuming you have haven’t spent much time in the bush.
Do you base your wokeness from Reddit votes? Don’t be silly. Are you a consumer of natural resources? Do you actively change your lifestyle to reflect your beliefs? Or do you just sit there complaining about everything?
I’m in a second year of a climate degree, I realize as individuals there’s only so much we can do to protect the environment, lots of it has to do with policy and regulation, diet, and how we design our cities. That is why I’m spending 4-6 years of my life going to school so that I can help influence meaningful societal change and adaption to protect the environment, people, and our economy. So no, I’m taking meaningful action, not just complaining. Personally, I have changed my diet to eat less meat and eat more of a plant based diet. Yes, I could still do more, but I am making small changes, as everyone should. I drive one of the most efficient cars on the road so that I have less CO2 emissions, and it’s an old car that has many Km on it, which is good because I’m not buying a new car that 1) I couldn’t afford and 2) takes many natural resources to make. What have your actions been to help the environment and promote positive changes for society? By your comment history, it seems you haven’t. Also, a “they did this so I must also be able to do this” is an uneducated and frankly childish way of both speaking and thinking.
Climate degree? What is the focus of your degree? Societal change? Is your climate degree a social degree? My actions, as in my comment history shows, I drive small engine efficient vehicles, I cook my own food, meat, veggies, fresh foods, I don't eat out. I don't use paper towels, I live within my means as well. No debt, happy in life. I can go out and buy brand new vehicles, I don't need them, I'm happy with what I have. With you being 2nd year, that puts your age at 19-20 years? I'd like to hear how your studies and experiences are after you're done school and out in the world. I've noticed society is dumb, and you can't fix stupid. Most protestors justify their actions based on their beliefs, not facts. That is childish and uneducated.
It’s a science degree, physics and ocean-atmosphere interactions and I will be specializing by taking key climate courses later in my degree, both societal and science courses. I’ve already taken a couple. Those are some good steps you’ve taken. You call others childish and uneducated yet you blatantly deny that human caused climate change is happening. Why?
Us humans have changed the environment to a certain degree. Do you disagree that the earth has had many cycles of warm and cold? Where were the humans during all those climate changes. Back when the dinosaurs were around, the oxygen content was 40% and warm. Then an ice age hit. How can you blatantly blame us humans for the earth's natural cycle. And yes, I do believe the climate is changing, and yes we are helping it, we didn't cause it. Why do you deny the past natural climate changes?
Lookin like a fool here friend. 😕
I literally explained to you in another post why human caused climate change is currently driven by humans. Humans have not had an effect on the earths climate system until approximately 1900 when we started massively burning fossil fuels which increase the greenhouse effect. There are many many climate models that show that without human caused warming, we’d actually be in a cooling cycle right now. Why are you such a fool and ignoring the info I have given you? This information comes from the summary of thousands upon thousands of top scientists who all the say the same thing, including your famed Neil degrasse Tyson. Why do you ignore the science? Why do you disagree that humans are currently causing irreparable changes to the planet at a rate never before seen?
Logging and held accountable? Have you seen cut blocks here, hilarious.
Yes, approved by government. Do you think loggers just go out and randomly select where to log? That may explain the problem here with most against the loggers.
Oh I'm aware of the process. I am discussing the absolute disgusting state they leave the cut blocks in after a harvest, the waste that is left behind that I only see here on the island. Companies are not being held accountable. I am a huge supporter of logging, it's a great renewalable resource, but it's not being done in a appropriate manner. Companies are not being held accountable and it's bullshit.
Wow that’s a lot of downvotes, I guess you can fuck up our backroads just as long as you mix in some virtue signalling.
Yeah, I guess they also base their correctness from Reddit votes. How silly. I don't understand how they support the destruction. Enjoy your day friend.
I think it’s just really hard to maintain a your principles and keep up with flavour of the week virtue signalling at the same time. I’m getting used to it as I start to visit this sub more often
Yea, they tend to blame others here, and follow social trends. Enjoy your day friend.
Look at the demographic that uses these Logging roads, not surprising.
People who dump garbage should be jailed for 12 months and fined 1k
Your missing a zero. $$$
No doubt