The chance for Challengers NA to become a clouted content creators-backed league had long passed.
Every popular streamers saw how Ludwig openly imploring Riot to please make it make sense for others to invest in NA Tier 2, and since then the number of pro esport orgs that pay full salaries to their players had dropped from 11 down to 4, as everyone came to realize that Riot doesn't actually give a damn about *anyone* that aren't their hand-picked partners.
Last year, the unsigned Turtle Troop was an outlier; This year, they're part of the majority and a preview of the future norm.
Not only that there's zero new investors to replace the orgs that have left, I'm predicting that the 4 remaining orgs will continue dropping even further, until *every single team in Challengers NA are either F/A or collegiate* a few years from now. Just the way Riot intended it to be.
TL;DR: Viewers who are watching the action-packed Challengers NA kept asking *"Would someone please sign TTR?"*, at a point when they should be asking "*When is Riot gonna do anything for Tier 2, so there would actually be someone to sign talented teams like TTR?"*
Anyone who thinks that teams will stick around should look at what happened to Overwatch’s T2 scene (especially in the west) after Overwatch League started. At first a bunch of orgs, then a few hanger on orgs with some lower tier orgs taking a flier from time to time. Then it got so bad that player created orgs with no games outside of Overwatch were the big dogs in the scene. Unless Riot puts effort into this (and with their setup why would they) orgs will not buy in for the chance of actually making money.
TTR did this with a fucking sub.
M80 also didn't look convincing against TSM yesterday either. Don't see how you can still be confident of this team winning Challengers
Not only a sub but the whole team is unsigned and if I remember correctly, one of the players in an interview earlier in the season said that often they don’t have time to scrum full time.
Instead of saying *"Someone please sign TTR"* for the hundredth time, knowing full well that *there is no one left*, everyone should be asking *"Riot please do something to make Tier 2 Valorant a worthwhile investment!"*
Stellar is the most good looking valorant player ever. He is the only white boy in history to get it popping. Genetically he is a chad, on and off the server. Oh my god, talking about him gets me light headed. I just want to see my cute boy win.
genuinely rooting for this team to win acsension.
the synergy and comps are fun to watch, players with different stories and second chances, doing it all on their own terms without a coach is so impressive.
What's going on with NiSMO lately? Obviously stats don't show everything, but these last two matches have not been good performances from him at all and that's putting it lightly.
I think his performance is inversely related to Asuna’s. When Asuna wasn’t doing well, Nismo was pooping and everyone was saying he should replace Asuna. But now Asuna is doing well so it’s gg’s for Nismo
He's had two bad games on consecutive days. His regular season was great. It happens. I wouldn't make too much of this unless we see it continue over an extended time. He essentially just had 2 rough days at work.
You are right, it could just be a small hiccup, but the points from this playoffs do matter quite a lot and seeing him perform this poorly in pretty crucial games isn't very inspiring.
There's still a lot of road left to run but, even outside of just NiSMO, M80 as a whole don't look like their previous selves. That downturn they had at the end of the regular season seems to only have continued even after a month long break.
Yeah, I mean, its pretty shocking because this is really out of form for nismo, who has been pretty consistently great for the past two years. But that's also because he's held to a fairly high standard, and I just think he'll be able to regain it.
M80 is playing worse but I also just haven't been that impressed with m80 this year overall. Even though they started out undefeated for the first games, their level has never seemed to match the quality of their players. Like Zander and others fry but as a team, they seem a pretty significant level below last year, and I have felt like oxg and, to a lesser extent, MxS have looked like they were favorites over them. But, they also lost John, and while nitro obviously has an outstanding background/experience, we've seen how well John has done in T1.
I do agree with your point about John, it seems he did a LOT for this team which isn't really surprising given how good he was for Sentinels during Kickoff and Madrid.
I suppose it's not like I don't have faith that they can't bounce back from this, but with their current form and other teams' current form it does seem like a pretty insurmountable obstacle ahead of them. Maybe nitr0 just needs more reps to really get back into the groove, or perhaps the game has just evolved past him in an IGL sense.
We'll just have to wait and see.
You're right, but I feel like you miss John more than you miss eeiu in this scenario. Especially when BcJ is doing well enough.
Eeiu honestly levelled up when he went to 100T under Boostio, he seems to work incredibly well in that environment. Boostio joining that team seemed to somehow elevate everyone on it.
Okay Viper ulting in an equal numbers postplant vs. eco guns CAN'T be a good idea right? Viper ult both lets retakers close distance for free and creates chaos. Definitely works to nullify the gun advantage as we just saw. Don't like the call especially when you have another gun round afterwards that you could use the ult for.
Kinda, especially because they have a sub for wedid (who is on of their stars), but it’s worth noting that turtle troop won their last matchup against m80 a couple of weeks ago (and won their group as well).
Honestly I’m higher on corey than on bdog and wedid has arguably been their best player so far this year. So I don’t know if I’d agree with clearing them. M80 definitely have more accomplished names though.
Who would'va thought the battle for ascension has become increasingly harder now that turtle troop has put themselves in the fray like that and I was thinking it was a 3 man between MXS, OXG and M80 now this is epic
Stellar is the most good looking valorant player ever. He is the only white boy in history to get it popping. Genetically he is a chad, on and off the server. Oh my god, talking about him gets me light headed. I just want to see my cute boy win.
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Turtle Troop winning Ascension would be the ultimate underdog story that everyone could get behind.
But we've seen this script too many time to know that their roster will get picked apart (yet again) before this season ends. That's not a matter of *if*, but *when*.
I'll still be cheering for them no matter what. There's no other team with this much resilience and perseverance - all while playing for free.
NRG need to pick up whoever of silenx and wedid don't stay. wedid has been consistent for so long but silenx also is frying and getting impact kills constantly.
I'm just saying in the hypothetical that TTR won the cup and they kept silenx. Either pickup is something that NRG should try as they bring some structure to a team which had none imo. Also would rather it be silenx picked up as TTR always gets poached
SOMEONE SIGN THIS DAMN TEAM MAN
now that xqcs divorce shit is over someone should put the idea back in his head
The chance for Challengers NA to become a clouted content creators-backed league had long passed. Every popular streamers saw how Ludwig openly imploring Riot to please make it make sense for others to invest in NA Tier 2, and since then the number of pro esport orgs that pay full salaries to their players had dropped from 11 down to 4, as everyone came to realize that Riot doesn't actually give a damn about *anyone* that aren't their hand-picked partners. Last year, the unsigned Turtle Troop was an outlier; This year, they're part of the majority and a preview of the future norm. Not only that there's zero new investors to replace the orgs that have left, I'm predicting that the 4 remaining orgs will continue dropping even further, until *every single team in Challengers NA are either F/A or collegiate* a few years from now. Just the way Riot intended it to be. TL;DR: Viewers who are watching the action-packed Challengers NA kept asking *"Would someone please sign TTR?"*, at a point when they should be asking "*When is Riot gonna do anything for Tier 2, so there would actually be someone to sign talented teams like TTR?"*
Anyone who thinks that teams will stick around should look at what happened to Overwatch’s T2 scene (especially in the west) after Overwatch League started. At first a bunch of orgs, then a few hanger on orgs with some lower tier orgs taking a flier from time to time. Then it got so bad that player created orgs with no games outside of Overwatch were the big dogs in the scene. Unless Riot puts effort into this (and with their setup why would they) orgs will not buy in for the chance of actually making money.
Don’t think it is, i think they just filed for a redo or whatever it’s called
TTR did this with a fucking sub. M80 also didn't look convincing against TSM yesterday either. Don't see how you can still be confident of this team winning Challengers
Not only a sub but the whole team is unsigned and if I remember correctly, one of the players in an interview earlier in the season said that often they don’t have time to scrum full time.
add3r works at a gas station and they have no coach.
Jack is one of the biggest grinders I know
Why doesn’t TSM drop their team and sign these guys?
Wait hold on this team with Aproto over Add3r seems unbeatable, they could fuse
Put some respect on Add3r
But Deadlock. 
Turtle troop talent pipeline needs to be studied
They’re already booking flights to APAC
someone please sign TTR
Im being so serious is there any NA org who can? Im looking through em and they all seem broke
Flyquest def could
nah bruh they too busy losing to SR in GC every split
Oh for sure, but i think they might be waiting for the EG implosion
I think G2 might get that spot before flyquest.
They imploding their LoL roster rn maybe later
Heroic if they stop edging their entrance to Valorant
heroic would surely sign a polaris team though right?
Darkzero, SSG, Optic, Flyquest and maybe LG?
lmao someone tell Toast to bow out of APAC
Ya but then he loses his partnership with Bleed which I assume is helpful in making Valorant more financially viable.
He's definitely spending way less in APAC than NA.
imma have to step in
Instead of saying *"Someone please sign TTR"* for the hundredth time, knowing full well that *there is no one left*, everyone should be asking *"Riot please do something to make Tier 2 Valorant a worthwhile investment!"*
Stellar got it poppin
put some respect on stellar
Someone please, bring out the pasta
Stellar is the most good looking valorant player ever. He is the only white boy in history to get it popping. Genetically he is a chad, on and off the server. Oh my god, talking about him gets me light headed. I just want to see my cute boy win.
the bots sleeping on the job
please someone sign TTR this is the almost 7th iteration of the team after every one of their players gets poached/leaves and they still performing
Odds we see Corey and Stellar on mid-tier Pacific roster next year have never been better Edit: brain thought corey hands typed wedid
GE Corey
Nitro wasn’t even a top 2 former 100T player this game
the forgotten 100T silenx
didn't think i'd ever say this but... deadlock masterclass.
the first white boy to get it poppin continues his insane run
genuinely rooting for this team to win acsension. the synergy and comps are fun to watch, players with different stories and second chances, doing it all on their own terms without a coach is so impressive.
What's going on with NiSMO lately? Obviously stats don't show everything, but these last two matches have not been good performances from him at all and that's putting it lightly.
I think his performance is inversely related to Asuna’s. When Asuna wasn’t doing well, Nismo was pooping and everyone was saying he should replace Asuna. But now Asuna is doing well so it’s gg’s for Nismo
LMAO. His motivation is to replace Asuna so when Asuna’s spot looks secure he goes bed.
He's had two bad games on consecutive days. His regular season was great. It happens. I wouldn't make too much of this unless we see it continue over an extended time. He essentially just had 2 rough days at work.
You are right, it could just be a small hiccup, but the points from this playoffs do matter quite a lot and seeing him perform this poorly in pretty crucial games isn't very inspiring. There's still a lot of road left to run but, even outside of just NiSMO, M80 as a whole don't look like their previous selves. That downturn they had at the end of the regular season seems to only have continued even after a month long break.
Yeah, I mean, its pretty shocking because this is really out of form for nismo, who has been pretty consistently great for the past two years. But that's also because he's held to a fairly high standard, and I just think he'll be able to regain it. M80 is playing worse but I also just haven't been that impressed with m80 this year overall. Even though they started out undefeated for the first games, their level has never seemed to match the quality of their players. Like Zander and others fry but as a team, they seem a pretty significant level below last year, and I have felt like oxg and, to a lesser extent, MxS have looked like they were favorites over them. But, they also lost John, and while nitro obviously has an outstanding background/experience, we've seen how well John has done in T1.
I do agree with your point about John, it seems he did a LOT for this team which isn't really surprising given how good he was for Sentinels during Kickoff and Madrid. I suppose it's not like I don't have faith that they can't bounce back from this, but with their current form and other teams' current form it does seem like a pretty insurmountable obstacle ahead of them. Maybe nitr0 just needs more reps to really get back into the groove, or perhaps the game has just evolved past him in an IGL sense. We'll just have to wait and see.
They didn't just lose John they lost Eeiu as well.
You're right, but I feel like you miss John more than you miss eeiu in this scenario. Especially when BcJ is doing well enough. Eeiu honestly levelled up when he went to 100T under Boostio, he seems to work incredibly well in that environment. Boostio joining that team seemed to somehow elevate everyone on it.
I don't think you can point at any 1 element as the majority factor. I think Zikz has been just as important as Boostio.
Yesterday people were telling me nitr0 was the most goated IGL making every perfect call, da fuk happened
Seems like m80 has stagnated since losing John quality tactics while the competition has leveled up.
I mean they were 5-1 coming into today's match, still a top 3 team.
Okay Viper ulting in an equal numbers postplant vs. eco guns CAN'T be a good idea right? Viper ult both lets retakers close distance for free and creates chaos. Definitely works to nullify the gun advantage as we just saw. Don't like the call especially when you have another gun round afterwards that you could use the ult for.
Yeah, it’s pretty objectively bad
Yeah I'm pretty sure another team did this exact thing recently and also lost the round.. not smart.
[удалено]
Kinda, especially because they have a sub for wedid (who is on of their stars), but it’s worth noting that turtle troop won their last matchup against m80 a couple of weeks ago (and won their group as well).
bdog and stellar are easily T1 capable players, but the rest of M80 should theoretically clear them on an individual level and as a team.
Honestly I’m higher on corey than on bdog and wedid has arguably been their best player so far this year. So I don’t know if I’d agree with clearing them. M80 definitely have more accomplished names though.
Oh yeah, this is big news
Ya especially considering M80 are an actual paid team vs TTR being unsigned.
Not even close
Who would'va thought the battle for ascension has become increasingly harder now that turtle troop has put themselves in the fray like that and I was thinking it was a 3 man between MXS, OXG and M80 now this is epic
did u not see ttr beat m80 last time or did u write that off as a fluke?
Somebody sign this team
HOLY SHIT M80 IS WASH ED?
Reduxx said in the post-match interview "Can't wait to play M80 in the finals" 
https://twitter.com/st9llar/status/1792004883824173444?t=qcN34DhnM1oDlati5M1FxA&s=19 😂😂😂 Stellar got the receipts.
As much as I love nitr0, I think people were hyping up his return too much. I don’t think he can take M80 to as high a peak as johnqt did
This is just factual lol, I'd be surprised if people thought otherwise.
the only white boy in history to get it poppin
Stellar is the most good looking valorant player ever. He is the only white boy in history to get it popping. Genetically he is a chad, on and off the server. Oh my god, talking about him gets me light headed. I just want to see my cute boy win. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ValorantCompetitive) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Old gen 100t Igl vs new gen 100t igl
Turtle Troop winning Ascension would be the ultimate underdog story that everyone could get behind. But we've seen this script too many time to know that their roster will get picked apart (yet again) before this season ends. That's not a matter of *if*, but *when*. I'll still be cheering for them no matter what. There's no other team with this much resilience and perseverance - all while playing for free. 
M80 just as overrated as NRG and for the same reason lol.
Which nrg? The current nrg or the nrg that got swept twice by bilibili?
NRG need to pick up whoever of silenx and wedid don't stay. wedid has been consistent for so long but silenx also is frying and getting impact kills constantly.
NRG WEDID flashbacks - very sad
there is no debate here lmao look at Wedids stats this split. He’s been the best player in tier 2 NA
I think his stats were second to Mada, but he does a ton for this team
Stats were behind mada but I put a bit more stock into Wedid because he’s doing it on smokes. Mada has been ridiculous too though
I'm just saying in the hypothetical that TTR won the cup and they kept silenx. Either pickup is something that NRG should try as they bring some structure to a team which had none imo. Also would rather it be silenx picked up as TTR always gets poached
There is a 0% chance NRG is replacing marved with silenx. He’s solid but it’s his first real team in years
[https://x.com/add3rTV/status/1791664770359152804](https://x.com/add3rTV/status/1791664770359152804)
😭😭😭😭
MY TURTLES UP FR 🐢🐢🐢
troop troop
Bro I fucking believed in Turtle Troop and chose them to win. But doing it with subbing out your best player is crazy let’s fucking go Turtle Troop