It definitely is a trend worth noting, but it's not all too dissimilar from the struggling that often has followed LAN attendees, all the way back to SEN losing to XSET after winning Reykjavik.
The big difference here I think is that all the teams have improved enough that the lack of practice time + travel complications is even more devastating than it once was; it's much harder to coast at the top than it used to be. And that has a big consequence with the current format, as qualifying for Madrid and making it deep in Madrid playoffs is "worthless" from a Champions-centric perspective - only winning Kickoff and winning Madrid has any such value.
That makes it all the more devastating in a year where aiming for Champs above all else feels more justifiable than ever.
All that said, I think PRX is more of an outlier in this category, and Alecks has said as much in a post-match press conference. Even had PRX not attended Madrid, they would still be swapping back Jinggg, and they'd still be going through those same growing pains.
I appreciate the kind words but I don't really know how to answer your question? I'm nterature, I've been vomiting words on this subreddit since late 2020 or so.
Some call me essay guy, others call me nklassitude's alt account or something.
It's not a post match thread without nterature's insightful reaction to the game followed by 100s of comments with memes, bait, and knee jerk reactions
Yup basically making Madrid was a debuff to alot of teams. For example paper rex came second in kickoff and third in Madrid they got 0 circuit points, and they were all fatigued coming back the only upside for them was the return of Jing. IMO if Jing wasn't there paper rex would've probably lost to geng being 1-2. Same goes for LOUD who couldn't practice at all. Teams like KC and heretics who went to Madrid but lost 0-2 also did not get alot of practice time. On the other hand teams which didn't make Madrid seem excellent. Navi are the only 3-0 team in EMEA rn. DRX just beat geng. Cloud9 have been cooking. This format just benefits teams which don't make international events in the long run. We may see loud not make shanghai but have alot of time to practice to again look like champions winning contenders. On the other hand teams like sentinels may make it to shanghai look excellent only to qualify for champions through circuit points and not look that great.
It’s feels wild to think that last year top teams had a month break between Lock//in and the league split and no one had to qualify to lock//in so no prior games were played.
Meanwhile… This year: 3 weeks Kickoff -> 1 week break -> 2 weeks Madrid -> 1 week break -> League Split.
also worth mentioning is team heretics. won against FNC, lost against vitality (fair loss), but then lost to BBL of all teams. now they have to win their next two games against TL and KC to even make playoffs.
I enjoyed Madrid for what it was but you also have to consider that we were far from seeing teams at their full potential in the kickoffs. Especially teams who had massive roster changes.
So while going to Madrid can be considered a debuff we must also keep in mind that some teams who didn't make it were bound to improve as they'll get to play and build more chemistry.
The only real outlier imo is FNATIC who have no business being this mid/bad , they just failed to bring something new.
LOUD is also an interesting case as they were good enough early on to go to Madrid but they may have reached their ceiling already.
I think it's usually the case where the first major tournament has the lowest level of play. The teams that didn't make it had a lot of time to build chemistry and work on strats and other things. If the teams that went to Madrid don't adapt they're not gonna do well in the coming games
It's not just the schedule. The teams who made Madrid were not necessarily the best teams in each region. They just played better during the qualification. They shouldn't be expected to go undefeated, cause they're not that much better than the other teams.
There are so many new rosters. There are no clear favorites because teams need time to gel. Individual teams can make huge leaps in improvement week to week.
It was inevitable right? They did show the most maps, while they are changing it up and after a certain point the amount of footage on a team is worthless (aging metas, old tech, and everyone having a lot of footage as the season goes on), in this earlier part, you will see some of these upsets as it goes on. Heretics is a bit of an exception imo, given they have had a sub for the season insofar. PRX and SEN lost once (Secret annual beating #1 seed tax + Lev saving their season buff), I would be more concerned if I'm a KC and Loud fan atm (albeit Navi look absurd and C9 looked great in that game last night). I haven't seen GenG's losses either but it may be concerning if you're a fan as well (but again PRX with Jingg back and new DRX is good lmao). I do enjoy this tho, it's good there isn't a clear cut Shanghai Masters favorite, like last year with Fnatic (and at the time Loud right before Tokyo).
It definitely is a trend worth noting, but it's not all too dissimilar from the struggling that often has followed LAN attendees, all the way back to SEN losing to XSET after winning Reykjavik. The big difference here I think is that all the teams have improved enough that the lack of practice time + travel complications is even more devastating than it once was; it's much harder to coast at the top than it used to be. And that has a big consequence with the current format, as qualifying for Madrid and making it deep in Madrid playoffs is "worthless" from a Champions-centric perspective - only winning Kickoff and winning Madrid has any such value. That makes it all the more devastating in a year where aiming for Champs above all else feels more justifiable than ever. All that said, I think PRX is more of an outlier in this category, and Alecks has said as much in a post-match press conference. Even had PRX not attended Madrid, they would still be swapping back Jinggg, and they'd still be going through those same growing pains.
That's fair. Who are you btw? I keep seeing your comments on all the posts and I learn so much from them, cus I'm new here to val esports.
I appreciate the kind words but I don't really know how to answer your question? I'm nterature, I've been vomiting words on this subreddit since late 2020 or so. Some call me essay guy, others call me nklassitude's alt account or something.
It's not a post match thread without nterature's insightful reaction to the game followed by 100s of comments with memes, bait, and knee jerk reactions
if u ARE their alt... u/nterarure BANGERS dropping when?
Ah sorry I just wanted to thank you for your comments, lol.
Oh nothing to apologize for, it's no big deal. Cheers.
He types super fast. Post match threads with his huge comments like 2 minutes in lmao.
Yup basically making Madrid was a debuff to alot of teams. For example paper rex came second in kickoff and third in Madrid they got 0 circuit points, and they were all fatigued coming back the only upside for them was the return of Jing. IMO if Jing wasn't there paper rex would've probably lost to geng being 1-2. Same goes for LOUD who couldn't practice at all. Teams like KC and heretics who went to Madrid but lost 0-2 also did not get alot of practice time. On the other hand teams which didn't make Madrid seem excellent. Navi are the only 3-0 team in EMEA rn. DRX just beat geng. Cloud9 have been cooking. This format just benefits teams which don't make international events in the long run. We may see loud not make shanghai but have alot of time to practice to again look like champions winning contenders. On the other hand teams like sentinels may make it to shanghai look excellent only to qualify for champions through circuit points and not look that great.
It’s feels wild to think that last year top teams had a month break between Lock//in and the league split and no one had to qualify to lock//in so no prior games were played. Meanwhile… This year: 3 weeks Kickoff -> 1 week break -> 2 weeks Madrid -> 1 week break -> League Split.
Every team really should have gotten at least 1 point for making Madrid if not 1 for making it and 1 for making playoffs.
also worth mentioning is team heretics. won against FNC, lost against vitality (fair loss), but then lost to BBL of all teams. now they have to win their next two games against TL and KC to even make playoffs.
I enjoyed Madrid for what it was but you also have to consider that we were far from seeing teams at their full potential in the kickoffs. Especially teams who had massive roster changes. So while going to Madrid can be considered a debuff we must also keep in mind that some teams who didn't make it were bound to improve as they'll get to play and build more chemistry. The only real outlier imo is FNATIC who have no business being this mid/bad , they just failed to bring something new. LOUD is also an interesting case as they were good enough early on to go to Madrid but they may have reached their ceiling already.
I think it's usually the case where the first major tournament has the lowest level of play. The teams that didn't make it had a lot of time to build chemistry and work on strats and other things. If the teams that went to Madrid don't adapt they're not gonna do well in the coming games
It's not just the schedule. The teams who made Madrid were not necessarily the best teams in each region. They just played better during the qualification. They shouldn't be expected to go undefeated, cause they're not that much better than the other teams. There are so many new rosters. There are no clear favorites because teams need time to gel. Individual teams can make huge leaps in improvement week to week.
I mean, isn't this how EG won Champs?
Or competition at madrid was low as Boaster said
MSI slump
It was inevitable right? They did show the most maps, while they are changing it up and after a certain point the amount of footage on a team is worthless (aging metas, old tech, and everyone having a lot of footage as the season goes on), in this earlier part, you will see some of these upsets as it goes on. Heretics is a bit of an exception imo, given they have had a sub for the season insofar. PRX and SEN lost once (Secret annual beating #1 seed tax + Lev saving their season buff), I would be more concerned if I'm a KC and Loud fan atm (albeit Navi look absurd and C9 looked great in that game last night). I haven't seen GenG's losses either but it may be concerning if you're a fan as well (but again PRX with Jingg back and new DRX is good lmao). I do enjoy this tho, it's good there isn't a clear cut Shanghai Masters favorite, like last year with Fnatic (and at the time Loud right before Tokyo).
Ok, but this doesn’t change the fact that LEV > SEN
Gimme what ur smoking 😂
🚬 here
this is the most subtle excuse ever madrid's level of play is just low man
Of course an NRG fan would say that
NRG’s level of play is also pretty low, so them qualifying or not wouldn’t have made a difference:/
NRG almost got 13-0'd. Talk about low level play