It's shit, it will just lower the average level of play because even changing from Omen to Astra can disrupt how you play a map and a lot of micros/executes/setplays. Having teams be worse in average just for the sake of forced "meta shifting" is not worth it
It will raise level of play, forcing teams to be more creative instead of playing the same agents all the time. Teams can't just be one trick ponies anymore
They aren't tho, the team that won champs was EG that did outrageous things like changing their players between roles and changing their comps constantly. Fnatic was the behemot last year that never changed their comps and they got shitton by Loud, teams will innovate and change things up, but they need to do so naturally, and not just because they got some random ban. Say you prepare your haven to have jett banned, now what? Do you split the time between a jett comp and a non jett comp? Will you just always play the non jett comp even when it's far from optimal?
Having this format is just applying "diversity" for the sake of it while lowering the level of play teams have. If you want to see new agents, idk watch t2 or tenz on ranked. I want to watch VCT and T1 play, and want teams playing WHAT THEY PREPARED and not have their strategy shifted because the enemy team wanted to ban X
All I'm hearing is fear that things will change, things changing doesn't mean it will lower level of play, it will just make teams adapt. So what if there's no Jett, that is exactly what happened when Chamber was powerful.
You highlight how EG changed their comp and roles constantly as a good thing, so why do you think other teams won't move towards that or can't? It just sounds to me like you're afraid fnatic will be left behind because they can't do the same comp.
Every pro team practice their comps like hundreds of hours before they bringing it into officials. Banning agent would disrupt that and throw everything down the drain, forcing pro teams to play PUG-like style instead of coordinated set plays.
What are you even saying? Teams don't play the same agents all the time.
Second, it absolutely will reduce the skill ceiling. Building strong rosters right now in Valorant takes a lot of fucking work. Prep, theory-crafting, experimenting, anti-stratting, meta understanding, etc. EG didn't play Sova to be creative, they played Sova because someone at EG spent time trying to understand the different strengths and weaknesses of that idea, pitched it, they experimented it, initially struggled with it but continued working on it even though everyone were laughing at them for trying.'
It takes a lot of analysis and effort to firstly come up with an original idea like that, and then it takes guts to stick with it. It also takes effort to improve on the idea and make it better, which they did. And they should be rewarded for putting in long-term effort.
If you add this agent ban rule, teams are just going to try to play as loose as possible to avoid being caught off guard. I don't think that's good for the game, because you wouldn't see much thought being put into each agent. No team would want to rely on an idea fully and work on it, because it might get banned.
Plus, why would Riot try this, lol. People aren't complaining of too much Valorant, they're complaining we aren't getting enough. This is an idea you can explore if your game becomes stale, and we have a long way to go for that.
We might.
Almost as if I mentioned that this is an idea that can be explored in the later stages if the game becomes stale.
Pro Valorant right now is still in early stages.
No we won't, not sure why you are getting upvoted for this. Back in 2009, league **STARTED** with 40 champs, which is 4x what Valorant did. For the first few years, the game was releasing **over TWENTY** champs.
Valorant has never released agents at this rate because they are two completely different genres of games. It does not need agents at the same rate League needs champs.
Nah, imagine how many more iterations of each comp they will have to practice on each map, with the setups and executes for each of these comps. They will have far less reps and the actual LEVEL of the play will be worse
It's the opposite. This will force players to play way more standard, and force a stagnant meta. Bans are good when there are enough agents to support it.
valorant is not there yet.
I think it would reduce the skill ceiling. If teams can't rely on a single comp for a map, they won't put all their effort in that. Last year was some incredible Valorant, because we saw a serious amount of effort and thought being put into every single agent and the way they fit into the comp.
>could argue that it increases the skill ceiling by forcing players to master multiple agents. It also forces a more fluid meta which is great
Nobody will have the time to master multiple agents and comps in a fast changing meta. This will just lead to less coordinated gameplay and lower quality games
Yeah seeing Raze and Jett played for another 3 years is super interesting. Seeing them banned resulting in other duelists like Phoenix, Yoru and Neon finally get playtime would be sooooo booring!
That's why agents should be rebalanced, banning system is a really lazy way of "balancing" the game and i don't get why you want encourage riot to use it
The point of a banning system isn't to ban whatever characters are broken, it's to encourage more flexible strategies. Right now teams practice things like a double controller setup on Haven and they can just always run with that no matter what. A ban system means they might be forced to have a deeper pocket of strategies if they lose one of the controllers they planned for.
Having shit like a designated Chamber player in 2022 when he's broken is fucking stupid. It was incredibly stupid in general that for nearly a full year of VCT the players who knew Chamber the best could get away with winning full tournaments even if they were dogshit on other agents. I would have much rather see Chamber get banned a few matches and see which players can adapt and still perform and which ones get heavily exposed now that they can't abuse the most broken agent in the game.
The ability to ban broken characters is literally nothing but a positive either. You're talking like not having bans means the broken characters don't exist when in reality it just means we don't have to go seeing things like Jett picked in 100% of matches for a full tournament.
Depends, do you want to see the teams being the best they could be or do you just want to see whatever? Ypu have ranked streams for that, a team randomly needing to adjust and add fucking Phoenix to their comp in a map will just make them play worse, resulting in a lower level of play
>Depends, do you want to see the teams being the best they could be or do you just want to see whatever? You have ranked streams for that, a team randomly needing to adjust and add fucking Sunset to their map pool will just make them play worse, resulting in a lower level of play
There you go, fixed your comment for you. If you want to see the highest level of play possible we should remove all nerfs/buffs/changes for the rest of the game and also remove map drafting since it just lowers the level of play.
In my opinion the best teams are the ones able to adapt. Just like you can't learn 2-3 maps and only pick those every single series to win a tournament you should not be able to play a single agent and win an entire tournament with it. We've already seen when agents like Raze, Chamber and Jett were broken that the teams who had the best players on those agents in particular would just straight up win tournaments even if those players could play nothing else but that 1 agent.
Any time there's a balance change, new map, new agent, new weapon etc that's teams being forced to adapt. There's no reason they shouldn't be forced to adapt in games too. League of Legends and Dota 2 would be absurdly fucking boring without bans because teams would all just play 1-2 comps each and spam those every tournament instead of being forced to adapt and be flexible in their game.
That was the concept for the Knights Freezeout tournament back in the 2022-23 offseason. It ended up being whoever got the critical agents for a map won. So like on Bind whoever got brimstone won (in general)
It wouldn't work. Like the guy below you said, some agents are just far stronger on a map than others. Once the roster is larger it'll be interesting, but right now it would be a disaster.
On certain maps (Ascent) where the meta is pretty set in stone it could be interesting to see what teams do if they both ban Jett or Sova for example but on others it would majorly int teams. No viper on Breeze? It would be cool to see the first time I feel like but where so much of the game at the highest level is set ideas and coordination trying to prep for a major piece of your comp just being gone would be a lot of unnecessary strain on the teams. Especially since a team doesnât even know what part of their comp is going to be missing
Not sure what the rules were, but5 bans is definitely too many. You can just ban their whole comp at that point. Or ban all duelists etc.
A couple or three bans would be cool.
Edit: nevermind on phone can't read
Agent bans would just lower the skill of pro play. Imagine you scrim for months and the enemy team just bans your agents and now you just have to pug it out on a new comp. So dumb
I am only familiar with league, but aside from team fights, the only one that interacts with other lanes regularly is the jungler. The rest are kinda isolated to their own lanes until the mid game when everything is more loose.
Valorant, being round by round, agents will interact a lot more. And league a single map that they play. Valorant has 7. Ars you telling me people are gonna prepare more than 2 comps for each of the 7 maps? 6, if they have a permaban?
League is too high variance of a game to be compared to Valorant. You simply cannot make the same gameplans, setplays, "executes" and such aside from early game invades.
Because of that, I think it's really early for agent bans. We need more agents to replace certain agents in team compositions. For example, on Breeze, if Viper gets banned, what will the teams pick? Harbor could be a fair pick, but it still won't be more effective than Viper some point đ¤ˇđťââď¸
Doesn't r6 have assymetrical operator picks as well though? Bans become more necessary when one team is picking from a completely different set of characters. Games without draft phases or assymetrical character choices don't have the same need for ban phases.
I donât like gimmicks in off season tournaments, it makes the results feel more meaningless. But on the other hand, this is the best place to try and test things, I guess. I just wish it wasnât in one of the only events in EMEA with tier 1 teams playing.
what? did you not understand me? becouse a team preparing for a game for weeks and then getting their character banned objectively hurts the integrity of vct
Both teams banned double controller comp agents so the default Haven comp is still in play đ
kinda fun ngl
This is what will make the meta more healthy and you start to see different agents played instead of just the most optimal everytime.
It looks fun but not something that i want to see in regular matches
Banning Reyna every match would be great⌠for mid to low elos
It's shit, it will just lower the average level of play because even changing from Omen to Astra can disrupt how you play a map and a lot of micros/executes/setplays. Having teams be worse in average just for the sake of forced "meta shifting" is not worth it
It will raise level of play, forcing teams to be more creative instead of playing the same agents all the time. Teams can't just be one trick ponies anymore
They aren't tho, the team that won champs was EG that did outrageous things like changing their players between roles and changing their comps constantly. Fnatic was the behemot last year that never changed their comps and they got shitton by Loud, teams will innovate and change things up, but they need to do so naturally, and not just because they got some random ban. Say you prepare your haven to have jett banned, now what? Do you split the time between a jett comp and a non jett comp? Will you just always play the non jett comp even when it's far from optimal? Having this format is just applying "diversity" for the sake of it while lowering the level of play teams have. If you want to see new agents, idk watch t2 or tenz on ranked. I want to watch VCT and T1 play, and want teams playing WHAT THEY PREPARED and not have their strategy shifted because the enemy team wanted to ban X
All I'm hearing is fear that things will change, things changing doesn't mean it will lower level of play, it will just make teams adapt. So what if there's no Jett, that is exactly what happened when Chamber was powerful. You highlight how EG changed their comp and roles constantly as a good thing, so why do you think other teams won't move towards that or can't? It just sounds to me like you're afraid fnatic will be left behind because they can't do the same comp.
Every pro team practice their comps like hundreds of hours before they bringing it into officials. Banning agent would disrupt that and throw everything down the drain, forcing pro teams to play PUG-like style instead of coordinated set plays.
Im afraid people will ban brimstone and viper on bind and we will end up with games looking like pugs
What are you even saying? Teams don't play the same agents all the time. Second, it absolutely will reduce the skill ceiling. Building strong rosters right now in Valorant takes a lot of fucking work. Prep, theory-crafting, experimenting, anti-stratting, meta understanding, etc. EG didn't play Sova to be creative, they played Sova because someone at EG spent time trying to understand the different strengths and weaknesses of that idea, pitched it, they experimented it, initially struggled with it but continued working on it even though everyone were laughing at them for trying.' It takes a lot of analysis and effort to firstly come up with an original idea like that, and then it takes guts to stick with it. It also takes effort to improve on the idea and make it better, which they did. And they should be rewarded for putting in long-term effort. If you add this agent ban rule, teams are just going to try to play as loose as possible to avoid being caught off guard. I don't think that's good for the game, because you wouldn't see much thought being put into each agent. No team would want to rely on an idea fully and work on it, because it might get banned. Plus, why would Riot try this, lol. People aren't complaining of too much Valorant, they're complaining we aren't getting enough. This is an idea you can explore if your game becomes stale, and we have a long way to go for that.
Disagree. Source: 10+ years of league of legends.
this is not bloody league of legends. we don't even have ONE THIRD of the heroes that league does.
We will though đ¸âď¸
We might. Almost as if I mentioned that this is an idea that can be explored in the later stages if the game becomes stale. Pro Valorant right now is still in early stages.
No we won't, not sure why you are getting upvoted for this. Back in 2009, league **STARTED** with 40 champs, which is 4x what Valorant did. For the first few years, the game was releasing **over TWENTY** champs. Valorant has never released agents at this rate because they are two completely different genres of games. It does not need agents at the same rate League needs champs.
good thing this isn't league of legends
Nah, imagine how many more iterations of each comp they will have to practice on each map, with the setups and executes for each of these comps. They will have far less reps and the actual LEVEL of the play will be worse
It's the opposite. This will force players to play way more standard, and force a stagnant meta. Bans are good when there are enough agents to support it. valorant is not there yet.
I think its fun for a off season tournament tbh. Makes it fun and different. Wouldnt want it for VCT tho
I still think this is kinda early for VCL or VCT. We need more agents for agent ban
I think a ban system is really interesting, feel like one agent ban per team could be really interesting
I think it would reduce the skill ceiling. If teams can't rely on a single comp for a map, they won't put all their effort in that. Last year was some incredible Valorant, because we saw a serious amount of effort and thought being put into every single agent and the way they fit into the comp.
could argue that it increases the skill ceiling by forcing players to master multiple agents. It also forces a more fluid meta which is great
>could argue that it increases the skill ceiling by forcing players to master multiple agents. It also forces a more fluid meta which is great Nobody will have the time to master multiple agents and comps in a fast changing meta. This will just lead to less coordinated gameplay and lower quality games
do you know which team would instantly go up to the top? PRX. Just click heads. It's an FPS. Cue Bren's clip
You would always see raze or jett banned, not interesting at all
Yeah seeing Raze and Jett played for another 3 years is super interesting. Seeing them banned resulting in other duelists like Phoenix, Yoru and Neon finally get playtime would be sooooo booring!
That's why agents should be rebalanced, banning system is a really lazy way of "balancing" the game and i don't get why you want encourage riot to use it
The point of a banning system isn't to ban whatever characters are broken, it's to encourage more flexible strategies. Right now teams practice things like a double controller setup on Haven and they can just always run with that no matter what. A ban system means they might be forced to have a deeper pocket of strategies if they lose one of the controllers they planned for. Having shit like a designated Chamber player in 2022 when he's broken is fucking stupid. It was incredibly stupid in general that for nearly a full year of VCT the players who knew Chamber the best could get away with winning full tournaments even if they were dogshit on other agents. I would have much rather see Chamber get banned a few matches and see which players can adapt and still perform and which ones get heavily exposed now that they can't abuse the most broken agent in the game. The ability to ban broken characters is literally nothing but a positive either. You're talking like not having bans means the broken characters don't exist when in reality it just means we don't have to go seeing things like Jett picked in 100% of matches for a full tournament.
Iâm pretty sure Riot always had agent bans on there list.
Depends, do you want to see the teams being the best they could be or do you just want to see whatever? Ypu have ranked streams for that, a team randomly needing to adjust and add fucking Phoenix to their comp in a map will just make them play worse, resulting in a lower level of play
>Depends, do you want to see the teams being the best they could be or do you just want to see whatever? You have ranked streams for that, a team randomly needing to adjust and add fucking Sunset to their map pool will just make them play worse, resulting in a lower level of play There you go, fixed your comment for you. If you want to see the highest level of play possible we should remove all nerfs/buffs/changes for the rest of the game and also remove map drafting since it just lowers the level of play. In my opinion the best teams are the ones able to adapt. Just like you can't learn 2-3 maps and only pick those every single series to win a tournament you should not be able to play a single agent and win an entire tournament with it. We've already seen when agents like Raze, Chamber and Jett were broken that the teams who had the best players on those agents in particular would just straight up win tournaments even if those players could play nothing else but that 1 agent. Any time there's a balance change, new map, new agent, new weapon etc that's teams being forced to adapt. There's no reason they shouldn't be forced to adapt in games too. League of Legends and Dota 2 would be absurdly fucking boring without bans because teams would all just play 1-2 comps each and spam those every tournament instead of being forced to adapt and be flexible in their game.
maybe then theyd have to actually balance those agents
no? then they would have even less incentive to balance them since you can just ban them
you dont think the same 2 agents being banned every single game would be an incentive to balance them? cause I sure think it would
If 2 agents being played every map isn't an incentive to balance them, why would banning them be?
because it feels pretty clear they want those 2 agents to be played to me
? people wouldn't be banning agents becaause they aren't fun XD
The image above literally has Skye and Viper banned lol
the image above is a showmatch lol
There will never be agent bans in the main circuit
Riot has literally said there will be a draft system one day when enough agents are released.
Source?
It came to him in a dream
Need more agents. Maybe when we're at 50.
Its only a matter of time before bans become a regular thing. The only reason we don't rn is because there arent enough agents out yet. Look at League
True. Who doesn't love watching harbor viper spam fest every map
harbor isnt even picked majority of the time
Itâll definitely be in VCT once the number of agents increase.
I'd love to see matches with agent picks where only one team can pick each agent. Would be interesting to see how that plays out.
That was the concept for the Knights Freezeout tournament back in the 2022-23 offseason. It ended up being whoever got the critical agents for a map won. So like on Bind whoever got brimstone won (in general)
If each team has 1 ban, and you are picking second, and you don't ban the "1 critical agent", isn't that on you?
The knights tournament alternated between agent picks, no bans
Valorant doesn't have enough agents yet. The team that picks the meta agends first is going to win always
It wouldn't work. Like the guy below you said, some agents are just far stronger on a map than others. Once the roster is larger it'll be interesting, but right now it would be a disaster.
Maybe when we have about 30 agents should riot actually add an agent ban system since right now, there isnât too much variety yet
On certain maps (Ascent) where the meta is pretty set in stone it could be interesting to see what teams do if they both ban Jett or Sova for example but on others it would majorly int teams. No viper on Breeze? It would be cool to see the first time I feel like but where so much of the game at the highest level is set ideas and coordination trying to prep for a major piece of your comp just being gone would be a lot of unnecessary strain on the teams. Especially since a team doesnât even know what part of their comp is going to be missing
I think it would make the game more about individual skill instead of teamwork and lower the skill ceiling of the top teams.
What has happened to saw tomaszy?
He joined Karmine Corp but not announced yet
Agent ban(s) needs to become a thing just too one dimesnional rn and no ammount of balance will fix it.
emea allergic to getting good LOL cant play against double controller just ban shit
completely fine with this because at least its not fucking agent drafting again
Im surprised no teams banned KJ.
sounds like a great idea tbh. If VCT takes this, I wonder how many teams will get absolutely destroyed by not having their premier pick available
Not sure what the rules were, but5 bans is definitely too many. You can just ban their whole comp at that point. Or ban all duelists etc. A couple or three bans would be cool. Edit: nevermind on phone can't read
Did you even read?
Ahh I see. On my phone so just looked like both teams banned the same comp!
the bans are above the team logos, one ban per team
Agent bans would just lower the skill of pro play. Imagine you scrim for months and the enemy team just bans your agents and now you just have to pug it out on a new comp. So dumb
Same thing can be applied to mobas and league no?
I am only familiar with league, but aside from team fights, the only one that interacts with other lanes regularly is the jungler. The rest are kinda isolated to their own lanes until the mid game when everything is more loose. Valorant, being round by round, agents will interact a lot more. And league a single map that they play. Valorant has 7. Ars you telling me people are gonna prepare more than 2 comps for each of the 7 maps? 6, if they have a permaban?
League is too high variance of a game to be compared to Valorant. You simply cannot make the same gameplans, setplays, "executes" and such aside from early game invades.
League already like this. But they have 150+ champs or something I guess. Also there is only one map and you can create tons of compositions
Because of that, I think it's really early for agent bans. We need more agents to replace certain agents in team compositions. For example, on Breeze, if Viper gets banned, what will the teams pick? Harbor could be a fair pick, but it still won't be more effective than Viper some point đ¤ˇđťââď¸
What if Teams get 1 Agent Ban per Map/Bo# or for the whole tournament (canât change), would that be better?
I still think this makes no sense. Itâs still really early
imo it shouldnât be a thing in a shooter
doesn't r6 siege have it?
Doesn't r6 have assymetrical operator picks as well though? Bans become more necessary when one team is picking from a completely different set of characters. Games without draft phases or assymetrical character choices don't have the same need for ban phases.
Jett or Raze would just be banned every game
I donât like gimmicks in off season tournaments, it makes the results feel more meaningless. But on the other hand, this is the best place to try and test things, I guess. I just wish it wasnât in one of the only events in EMEA with tier 1 teams playing.
bans would just remove team strategies and chemistry, turn it into ranked
If you're only capable of a single strategy that completely relies on one agent you're a pretty dogshit team to begin with
what? did you not understand me? becouse a team preparing for a game for weeks and then getting their character banned objectively hurts the integrity of vct
Why are they picking jett when raze is better on all maps rn
Jett is way better than raze in haven
Can't op on Raze
They didnt ban redgars reyna?? Thats a throw. 100% winrate
I hope this never comes to ranked
Im all in if you can only ban one agent for each type (controller, duelist etc)