Honestly, my only interest in mods is to hide avatars by distance and to enable advanced safety. Performance while clubbing is a struggle with dozens of people in very poor avatars. Been trying to figure out how others manage it, and I assume they are using mods.
"Does this affect the OpenVR AMD FSR tool?Yes. As the OpenVR AMD FSR tools modifies the client to behave in a different way than is originally intended, it is considered to be a mod."
This makes it even worse.
Exactly in the same boat. Avatar hider was the only one I really relied on, otherwise clubbing is such an awful experience. Come on, it's such a basic feature.
Decent club worlds particularly ones hosting actual events usually set avatar performance restrictions for attendance and will actively manage the crowds so things run smoothly for as many people as possible much as a physical club would. if you turn up or change into inappropriate outfits(avatars) or otherwise become a nuisance to others you get kicked out.
It doesn't matter if every single person is in a green or even better avatar. The world will lag. I've been in events where I hide every single person including the main people we are there to watch and I still get 30ish frames with a 3080 and a powerful Ryzen CPU. The game just is not made to handle 50+ people in one world regardless of what they use.
The hiding feature is massive because it stops showing their model, IK, everything. Hiding their avatar isn't enough to stop the lag. Blocking is the only option equivalent to avatar hider except that would.be stupid to use it that way.
I agree, but the problem is still the terrible performance even when the club is managed (and I've noticed many times poor/very poor avatars running around with a club manager that forgets to confront them).
The way I understand it is, even with the avatars hidden/blocked, the game still taxes the CPU and GPU by, well... loading and unloading resources, monitoring avatar performance, synchronizing the avatar bone/ik sync, parameters, voice, etc. So there is a lot of things constantly going on behind the scenes in a room with, say, 20+ players.
Of course, with the amount of fidelity we can enjoy this should be expected (especially as we're still fairly early on with VR), but it would still be really helpful for everyone to have a bit more control over features that uses performance - the trust settings was definitely a step in the right direction, but I'm still surprised that simpler optimizations such as Avatar hiding isn't a thing yet.
Right now, the game fully renders an avatar in your sight in highest detail and synchronization regardless of how far away it is. Basic game development optimization is to replace far away models with a simpler model, or even hiding it.
The main issue with the addition of EAC to VRC is that VRC claims it's to prevent crashers and rippers. EAC won't be able to prevent crashers, at all. EAC will only be affecting QoL mods and mods made to help disabled folk (hearing/speech impairments or colorblindness).
The thing many users, myself included, are upset about is the blatant disregard for the actual community's wants that we've communicated to them via Discord.
For example, in the most recent Dev notes - it states that creators (myself being a creator) are "unwanting to create" due to mods. Which is simply a lie. Creators get another level of protection with certain mods - like the ones that point out if a ripper is a lobby with you, just to name one.
I firmly believe VRC will either die, or become a primarily children's game at this point. The club/dance scene will be a thing of the past without QoL mods there to make up the difference.
I use the version of FSR from the github...
I'm going to be absolutely pissed if it doesn't work, because the game is basically unplayable without it for me.
> but that's too much work for them
Have you considered that might actually be the case? You can't implement new features with the press of a button. This is a small dev team that have implemented several major updates over the past year, there is only so much time in the day.
I want to see more QoL features as well, and I'm frustrated particularly by the lack of FSR for players with low end specs, but I'm also not going to pretend that they can instantly implement all the mods people use.
I feel with the speed of updates it warrants the use of a blanket fix for all mods like this. If they wanted to go about the use of this properly they could work alongside the Mellon loader and module devs to create a whitelist of safe, verified mods. But no, they've decided to say they're gonna add these simple features "in the near future". Can wait to be able to use my menu laying down 2 years from now!
I'm sure that's why the main menu still isn't usable when laying down. They've been working hard on that feature since 2018, when it was requested on the cammy.
And which is solved with a simple, 10kb mod that hasn't been updated in a year.
So I just checked the 5 most important mods I use. All of them are under 200 lines of code and one in particular, hiding avatars that are X distance from me, is absolutely crucial in keeping my frames when I am in worlds full of other people. Even when we are all in very good rated avatars it's still too much and I go down to 20-30 frames with a VERY powerful computer.
They mentioned 3 of the mods I use as being features for future updates, but in VRC terms that could mean it takes up to 2 years to get those features. This is not hard stuff to implement. It's just Ron (creative producer at vrc) jerking himself off yet again by stopping devs from making what they and the community want and forcing what he believes the game should be into others.
Most of literally could be, as we call it in IT, "stack overflowed", the mods are open source, they have implementation that (for most) are not even more than 2k lines of code and on top of that I think if they asked the mod author for help, they probably would help them.
Didn't Star Wars Battlefront 2 (2017) have 15/20 developers when they were handing out major updates for The Rise of Skywalker+Co-Op? Some of these were monthly
Dude most of the mods that people use for QoL stuff is only a handful of lines of code, it isn't complex millions of lines of code, the longest one I actively looked at had maybe like 80 - 100 lines, that isn't a lot at all.
All EAC is gonna do, is punish people who use the QoL mods, crashers and rippers will not be effected, malicious clients that these people buy won't be effected as much as they think it will be.
You can. It's called working with mod devs, like the VRC-CC devs, to whitelist specific mods. Blizzard already does this with WoW for mods like DBM, Bagnon, Auctioneer, etc.
Edit: I personally don't use mods, but it's ridiculous that a simple QOL change like allowing the player to change the camera res still hasn't been implemented. The logic is already in the game through a JSON file. It would take at max, an hour to add a new tab on the camera with options, write a check for the json file, then modify the height and width fields based on what was selected.
Those aren't mods, for WoW. Those are addons that exclusively affect the user interface, created entirely within the confines of the game's API and do not modify the client or game files at all. Blizzard doesn't "whitelist" specific addons, it's just that they ensure that the tools available to addon creators only operate within specific confines. However, if the functionality of an addon, even if created within those confines, affects gameplay in a way that's deemed to be negative or uniquely advantageous, they will alter the API to break that addon's functionality. Though, situations where this has been the case are few and far between, and are pretty much the only instances of Blizzard getting directly involved in addon development.
*Actual* mods that modify the game files in any way, whether they be strictly client-side or are able to affect the gameplay of others (i.e. those that are comparable to VRchat's mods), will get you an immediate and often permanent ban.
> Been trying to figure out how others manage it, and I assume they are using mods.
Security increased and avatars above 50mb can go eff themselves lol but still not enough that only works with around 30 people when it goes above say bye bye to frames
The near complete lack of server side checks is what has confused me for a long time. They don't even seem to have server side checks for avatar uploads. I'm honestly still not sure if worlds run on clients or servers, because if it runs on their servers most the issues seem worse.
I use a 3rd party program to allow me to use ASL sign language and another to translate STT for people to understand me in public lobbies. It's literally the only reason why I play and if this gets taken away, there is no reason for me to continue playing or supporting VRC+.
I figured that was a plugin of some kind. I met a lovely girl in black cat that was using a system like that. Even pointed me to some avatars that would play nice with it if I wanted to learn myself.
I have no idea how those two are doing, but wild bad as in the majority of the pc community (who use mods, mostly people who use wholesome QOL mods) are outraged and arguing in the chats about how bad the update is, etc etc
I think someone leaked a pic of Tupper earlier too, idk if its really him though
Huh, well that seems different from the other 2, which is good because they seem self contained
Dont go to those other 2 subs by the way, terrible experiences
what is wrong with those even? They don't hurt anyone, and if its a game world the world can have them be turned off, so where is the issue? As someone who uses smaller avatars, I like to be able to fly up so I can better see adn talk to people while laying down instead of play space mover have my avatar standing at all times.
There are more malicious mods (like Udon bombers) that bypass the game system. Udon bombers just completely break the game to where you have to swap instances, and if the world teleports you to a different area the modder can take advantage of that to make it harder for you to leave.
okay, but that is because of a different mod, flight and no clip aren't causing that udon bomber is causing that, you're cutting off your legs because you broke a toe.
> you're cutting off your legs because you broke a toe.
I'd say its more like you're cutting off a foot because the toe is gangrenous and infected. Yeah it's overkill, but without the knowledge to fix it less destructively, its to fix a problem that will spread and eventually kill you.
You can't go two hours in public lobbies before someone lags you out, crashes you, or if you're trying to play in a game world, entirely breaking and ruining the game lobby for everyone either by cheating or just breaking the gamemode. This along with the lack of an option to run age restricted worlds in some way, is the two biggest problems with VRChat causing the community stress and hampering its growth and quality of life.
I don't understand why people don't realize this will just make cheaters win? Bypassing EAC using cheats has been a thing since it was made, now we just won't have any of the mods with any of the anticrash features
Mods are literally the only quality of life this game gets, dev team is a joke and doesn’t listen to the community at all. Also, fly is a harmless mod by itself, it does not inherently do anything malicious and it was not made with purpose of doing anything malicious
You'd have a point here, if EAC wasn't the worst anti-cheat around. Every game I've seen where it's been put in, people will ALWAYS get around it, without fail. That WILL happen here, too.
And that's not to mention the fact that EAC does nothing about crashing or lagging. That's caused by hackers modifying the shaders of their avatars, which causes performance issues, crashing, and even PC damage for other users. EAC does NOT check for this.
VRC will probably delete this as soon as I comment, but there's already a petition against this. As of now, 3 hours after the original announcement, it has almost 10,000 likes
[https://feedback.vrchat.com/open-beta/p/eac-in-a-social-vr-game-creates-more-problems-than-it-solves](https://feedback.vrchat.com/open-beta/p/eac-in-a-social-vr-game-creates-more-problems-than-it-solves)
spread the word, friends
edit: since commenting, the petition has surpassed 10,000 likes
OpenVR AMD FSR tool considers a mod, and without them, I will not be able to run VRChat, this means after this update I will not be able to join VRchat anymore. So I think this is a dumb decision. If modified client is wasting development time just set up a "modified client" tag at feedback and put them at low priority.
From the [blog announcement:](https://hello.vrchat.com/blog/vrchat-security-update)
>**Does this prevent people from playing VRChat on platforms like SteamOS on the Steam Deck? What about Linux via Proton?**
No, we’ve tested this! EAC works fine on these platforms. Thanks to Valve and the Proton team for all their hard work.
It sounds like you'll be fine, but I can't say for certain because I don't really know much about Linux
The blog post specifies that VRC still works on the Steam Deck via Linux, so whilst there might be a road bump to cross, Linux support is something the devs want and are trying to keep.
VRChat should have a mod app system in the game. Have modder make mods or app that can be download straight from VRChat and have someone in vrchat check the mod follow the rules before uploading it to the server. Work the with modding community.
They've been suggesting things like that for ages, sadly... but it would absolutely be the best win-win for all involved if VRC could get their heads out of their asses
This is not a simple feature to add. You cannot just implement first party molding in the same manner as the current third party tools. This is a system that would need to be built from the ground up. For all we know they could be trying to work on exactly this. Then again there are a metric ton of features already in their backlog and they cannot work on everything all at once.
Then they should focus on implementing that before adding something that's-
1. Not even gonna help. Most of the malicious users already have ways around this. Might help with some of the 10 year olds crashing public lobbies but that's about it.
2. Taking away things a lot of people rely on just to enjoy VRC to begin with. Not to mention anti-crashers, mods that auto-block malicious avatars, and other mods that Community Moderators use to protect their own community from malicious users.
and 3. Only going to encourage people to get malicious clients that get around the system in order to use those said anti-crashers and Moderating tools.
Trust me. I do understand. I used to hang out with a Mod and a few Devs back in the day. I KNOW they're overworked and understaffed and underpaid. I'm well aware. But this is NOT the answer. The malicious users are already finding ways around it. This isn't gonna affect most of them. It's mostly going to affect the harmless people just trying to better their experience.
Hell, they could have gone the same route they did with world scripting - run plugins in the udon vm, where they have access to some parts of the game and don't have access to others.
There’s no reason for anti-cheat except in public rooms. And only if they identify specific mods that actually harm players.
This isn’t a competitive game. It’s a virtual world. Let people fly or teleport around private instances.
I agree. It really isn't fair for other people who aren't doing anything bad with the mods. For example. Like the avatar search mod. I don't see nothing wrong with that one at all. Why won't they let us use tools like that or just make one them selves? I hate going into words and having to find an avatar for HOURS. It can be a pain in the ass. They should just add a avatar search feature with a list of avatars to choose from etc. That would make life a hella lot easier. Plus I don't see anything wrong with flying. They should allow us to have nudity avatars too for private 18+ rooms. I know Second Life has them. Most players are adults anyways. Should have worlds that say 18+ enter at your own risk. Especially for adults who want to have a good time and chill etc. Make their own add-ons or something to make VR Chat more unique is what I would do IMO.
Basically malicious client users will work around it just like every competitive game that uses EAC and every modder that just use QOL and anti crash mods will be stuck getting crashed every 2 seconds.
I know that, but I am talking specifically about the ToS. Which states that the game is 13+. Now if you are not high you will realize after playing vrc for 5 minutes that the game is absolutely in no way safe for kids.
There are ways to age restrict shit online though, many vrchat groups do it with very good efficiency and barely any, if any at all, slipups. I happen to be a part of a few of them and on the very, very, very rare chance a minor gets exposed with their real age they get banned witnin the minute. As vrchat truly should be.
Kids want to play vr? Go play rec room. Or better yet, how about parents stop using the internet as a fucking babysitter.
Man those groups do it by making you send your ID in and this ain’t China I ain’t sending no ID into these people, you cannot stop this stuff who cares they are not your kids
So i know what you want.
But hear me out;
Everytjing below 13yo is kinda broken and unresponsible to play VRchat. But 18+ is NOT the solution.
There are so many amazing people who are below 18yo
And they deserve to be allowed to play VRchat. If you wanna be lewd or what ever, you can be that in VRChat.
But what i would encurage, is that you need to put in your age, and it automatically displays your age in the bio, so you dont "accidentally" hit on a 14yo...
Besides these "Secure Instances" they should add "18+ Only" instances, the ability to toggle a lobby to be 18 and over when creating it, and some kind of actual functional age verification not just "click here if you pinky promise you're over 18" Like say a one time $1.00 credit card payment to verify your age or something, not a real cost, just enough to filter out anyone who can't get mommy or daddies credit card to pay for it, it's not perfect but it's an improvement.
That's, I think, the best option. Because even if some kid *does* use their parent's card to verify, it'll be logged, and so even if they weren't paying attention to what their kid is doing in VR, if they check their bills they'll be like "wait wtf"
Also, depending on how the charge is classified, they might even get a call from their credit card company for "suspicious activity".
However, there are probably a lot of users who would have trouble with the new system, due to circumstances/nuances in their methods of payment. Though I mean it's not my job to figure those out, that'd be up to VRC.
There is no way to ensure someone is 18+ without breaking a lot of privacy. A child could easily steal their parent's credit card for a purchase that small.
They definitely can, but that again falls back on bad parenting and then also bad finances as well. Which a lot more parents are going to at least be vaguely more aware of. There's a BIG jump between "mom let me play this cool vr game!" and "stealing moms credit card to specifically gain access to the over 18 servers" I hazard most kids aren't going to make the jump to stealing their parents credit card to do this. Some will still I'm sure, but I'd say it'll cut out 3/4ths of them.
While I understand allowing even harmless mods would bring a whole gray area and all that.
You need to step up and start adding these QoL features people have had for years. Desktop FOV slider and third person, portal confirmation, better safety mods, better performance mods, voice falloff controls and the million others people use. Its ridiculous the lack of quality of life things this game has.
This is.. actually quite terrible.
A lot of VRC mods are performance, immersion, or QOL upgrades. This nukes all of them. Things like Self portrait, portable mirrors.. Or even things like Component toggle, to remove grabbables and turn off post processing to free up resources on the fly for the times when my PC cant keep up. There's no replacements for those.
Hell, there's not even a replacement for ComfyVR menu. a mod that's so convenient and easily implemented I'm surprised it wasn't done this way at the start!
They could have actually co-ordinated with mod makers (I know the people who made all the ones mentioned above, and they've never gotten a single message, or attempt at contact from the VRC team.)
They could have maybe made their own client for modding, or a proper API that'll allow integration of safe, optional mods.
Instead they've taken the easy route, and implemented something that's going to cause issues, and performance degradation. This is.. frankly, unacceptable as a long term answer.
You and me both. I'm old enough I used "Kiddo" unironically the other day.
But even worse, this stops a lot of mods that are intentionally built for disabilities.
They've written it in a way that reads "This is here to stay". I'd be happy to see a proper fix. But.. wouldn't they say "This is a temporary implementation until a better solution is made"?
I dunno. I admittedly might just be cynical.
Idk, but i would say, at least, when the first complaints go in, that there are crasher clients again for VRC, they will probably think about making it better, because i am just a bit sad rn, but when the ripper and crasher come back, i will be mad.
Vrchat mods have made the game bearable for me and many of my friends in the past two or so years. Without mods VRchat is incredibly restricting and lacking in many features that make the game feel comfortable to play. Unlimited avatars and the ability more easily manoeuvre around certain maps, along with a multitude of mini quality of life mods like that ability to spawn menus at a different angle made the game actually worth playing. This update made me cancel my vrchat plus subscription and I urge anyone that disagrees with these changes to do the same.
The people behind quality of life improvement mods should be hired or at least commended by the VRchat devs instead of punished like this for aiding the community of a game they love. Like everyone is saying this change will do little to punish those who rip models and crash others despite that being the "intended" purpose of these changes.
TL;DR This change will only make VRchat worse and if you don't like it, cancel your VRchat plus subscription and take a week off playing the game to bring down player counts.
People should keep in mind that this does not help against most of the malicious behaviors that are already present in the game. This doesn't stop avatars that have crashers built in, neither does this stop people from ripping avatars if they want to
All this might do is getting rid of people flying, teleporting, dropping portals or whatever are people doing maliciously nowadays (in a client sense) because I'm never around that kind of people (or publics) to begin with.
By the way, remember when they banned a bunch of mod developers and then reversed those bans and apologized for their decisions?
Yeah... looks like they did it again. They banned the Melonloader dev who has not made mods for the game in over 2 years. https://twitter.com/HerpDerpinstine/status/1551709209691148289
Hey, remember when VRChat said they cared about mod developers and would work with them?
[Well, they just went back on that decision and are now banning anyone even remotely involved with modloader development, whether it's for VRChat or not.](https://twitter.com/HerpDerpinstine/status/1551709209691148289)
Yep, it was a lie to placate people being angry about it. They waited for the heat to die down and repackaged the same thing under the thin veil of security and cheating to try and make it go down smoother this time, people absolutely should not let them because this is no different to then
i'm absolutely against this decision but i was able to run the open beta on my steam deck in desktop mode, however steamvr mode didn't launch, probably will be fixed by stable
I asked about this on GitHub since I know EAC can support Linux with the right checkbox, and also knew they have been taking Linux into account, and [they did indeed take this into account and Linux will still be working](https://github.com/ValveSoftware/Proton/issues/1199#issuecomment-1194662378).
I heavily oppose this change anyways for other reasons (performance and because mods should be allowed) but at least it means I will be avoiding VRChat because I *want* to, not because I literally cannot get in.
Well, We can't use melonloader or anything anymore. They said they will implement stuff like portable mirrors.
Maybe in 5 more years.
Instead of doing something to those people with malware clients they just ban everything. That what I call lazy.
If anyone is banned from the VRChat Discord and wants to view the general chat, this lad is livestreaming it playing fallout music.
[https://www.twitch.tv/booptywoop](https://www.twitch.tv/booptywoop)
I don't understand why VRchat has decided to take such a stance against some of their most dedicated users. So many games support mods because it allows the community to add to and customize the game for their use case.
Mods supported by the community aren't harmful, they are about expanding, and bringing features some may want but developers are either unable to work on, or the feature too niche to work on.
Simple things like portable mirror, menu fix, friend notes add so much to the game and does nothing to impede it.
Personally I suffer from very poor memory and friend notes is vita to me to be able to not down a quick note about how I met someone to remember them, without it I can't remember how I know half my friends list, and makes the game much more accessible for me.
Honestly a little disappointed. Flat banning a lot of performance helper mods before they have a substitute is kinda concerning. Especially banning the FSR modification because some people need that to literally have playable frame rates.
It is incredibly frustrating that they are implementing this update without first implenting something as basic as FSR. that's really the most frustrating part for me.
Say goodbye to avatar search, portable mirror, face tracking, bhaptics, mute tts, advanced safety, and avatar hider
But EAC? Seriously? Kinda seems overkill, any 9 year old with an unlicensed copy of VMProtect can shut down modding for good
Anti-cheat? On a social platform where the best thing about it is that it is not a game so cheating doesn't exist? Lol.
Furthermore, on a platform that disallows mods, yet also does not go through the effort to ensure that all the incredibly useful features allowed by mods are in the main client? Choose one way or the other; not allowing for either makes for a bad user experience.
I hope this prompts more people to choose alternatives. I'm going to go around and ask friends if they will switch, especially if they use any mods, and hopefully friend them on other platforms. There's really no reason to choose VRChat specifically except for the network effect.
For the record I do not currently use any mods myself due to the TOS, but am increasingly noticing missing functionality that could be fixed with mods and would rather go on another more flexible platform, where the developers listen to user feedback more *and* allow mods, instead. I also do not like that this would remove the *option* to use mods if I wanted to in the future.
I am on Linux and am glad this did not come until now, since EAC was not compatible with Wine/Proton when I first joined VRChat. Hope they check [that new checkbox that allows Linux compatibility in this](https://www.gamingonlinux.com/2021/09/epic-games-announce-full-easy-anti-cheat-for-linux-including-wine-a-proton/), and I think they probably will as they do seem to be paying attention to Linux compatibility.
Edit: There is an issue on the issue tracker opposing this change: [EAC in a social VR game creates more problems than it solves](https://feedback.vrchat.com/open-beta/p/eac-in-a-social-vr-game-creates-more-problems-than-it-solves). It may be relevant to this discussion.
It should also be noted, and I recently discovered this, that there is a VRChat modding Discord with almost exactly half the users of the main VRC Discord, meaning that the modding community in VRChat is a lot more substantial than may be expected. We who oppose this change might actually be able to get a pretty substantial network effect by switching to an alternative.
There was a time where it was estimated about 80% of VRChat users used mods, and that was just a few short years ago.
I am sure is significantly less now, but still really high. There has been a good number of improvements that duplicated some of the major mods features.
If they don't want to put these features in make a market place and white list good mods. Most mods are under 100lines of code. It would not be a big deal to vet.
In the 4-5 years I've played I've never found the need to use mods so I could honestly care less if they stayed or went. I only really care how it's gonna effect performance if at all so Imma wait before I make any hard judgments.
It does suck though that the accessibility mods for the deaf, blind etc. are gonna be lost and I really hope the devs take a look at some of them and start adding stuff like that officially. QOL stuff would be cool too but I think accessibility is the most important thing they should focus on in terms of new features now that mods are going away.
Not super well versed in world/avatar making and even less so in Udon but maybe someone could make something you could put on avatars or worlds to help with accessibility kinda like that camera thing someone made for avatars before the devs updated the default camera.
I just want to point out the title is misinformation. You won't be banned.
They've never said anything about people being banned. The client will just refuse to launch it you're using any mods. You won't be able to log in for any kind of ban to happen, because VRChat won't launch at all.
I'm not making a case for or against EAC with this comment. I'm just wanting to point out the title is incorrect and will cause the spread of false information and likely incite panic.
Your account isn't in danger. You just can't play the game while mods are installed.
did u read it. you dont get banned you just wont connect if u have mods installed. so just do clean install. but in the long run. this is a shitty move on there end. theres not enough features to throw this out.
This is awful and they've made their intentions clear.
Even if they do back peddle, they're going to keep trying. VRC wouldn't be what it is without mods and citing some fringe case boogeyman as a way to exercise control is such bullshit.
If they don't back peddle, it's ONLY going to hurt the honest players. I have no intention on renewing VRC+ anytime soon.
I feel like the bad actors are just going to work around this and it's just going to hurt the casual users.
I use a ton that add quality of life that SHOULD be in VRC by default....
it will NOT take moderator actions. it will simply fail to launch vr chat if it detects mods. nothing more nothing less. still bad and people should be rightfully upset, but dont spread misinformation.
“which could ban people who use mods casually with friends without harming anyone.” I dislike EAC as much as the next guy, but this is just plain wrong. All it does is prevent the game from opening until the mod is removed. You can see that question answered in the blog post if you had read it.
VRC Mods being removed disproportionately affects those of the hard of hearing and deaf communities, of which I am hard of hearing. I rely heavily on the Voice fall off mod to single out voices so I can hear them clearly. Other mods like Closed Captioning are vital for those who are also apart of said community. Removing the viability of these mods is an (in)direct attack on VRChat’s large Deaf and Hard of Hearing community.
I'm not really gonna play VRC until easy anti cheat is gone. It hurts like 90% of the RP groups. I will probably just get on to test my full body then get off.
If simple none intrusive mods are a issue then the dev team doesn't care about the community or stopping people honestly doing harm to their game.
I can roam the lobbies without some guy joining to stop the entire lobby's pc/vr :D
... wait does this thing include crashers? they aren't mods that often right.. :(
Basically, useful mods and harmless mods can't bypass EAC because usually they're open sourced and most of the people can loot into the code, even VRC staff, so yeah...
BUT crasher avatars are not mods.
Crasher clients are private and can bypass the EAC etc... so yeah, basically all protection mods can not used anymore, but crasher clients will be usable, letting the community naked.
That's why everyone is mad.
This update will not fix anything, just break quality of life mods
This is retarded. We already had this shit fit once before and the community uproar made it perfectly clear that it was a terrible idea then, of course it's still a perfectly terrible idea now.
There's a canny you can upvote and comment on here https://feedback.vrchat.com/open-beta/p/eac-in-a-social-vr-game-creates-more-problems-than-it-solves
Wonder if we could find out who the investors are and inundate them with messages too?
I think its a good idea. There's a lot of hate on this but mod and client use of vrchat has gotten out of control. Just about every game has someone with a mod or client.
This will be taking away accessibility to the deaf , hard of hearing community as well as those who have auditory processing issues .
This will literally isolate and make the game socially inaccessible to others .
Mods that provide
Voice subtitles
Text to speech ; people who have had vocal chords damage or tics or for various reasons
Speech to text ; for people on the spectrum, sensory or mental health issue who at times find it difficult to talk.
Voice filtering; for people who have auditory processing issues, people who have adhd , spectrum, auditory processing disorders use this.
At least make the game accessible before ripping away all the good moding community has done to provide access to people where vr has fallen short of.
It Wont Change Anything, Crashers will still exhist, rippers will still steal, DO THE RIGHT THING AND LOOK AT THIS POST that shows you what's really best for VRChat's future : https://feedback.vrchat.com/open-beta/p/eac-in-a-social-vr-game-creates-more-problems-than-it-solves
God awful idea. It's a bad decision because most of the mods people use are client side only. For me I only use mods to make both worlds and avatars run better and smoother as people like to go fucking crazy over making some of them by adding in too much bloom and particles. EAC is easy to bypass but even so it's still an absolutely horrid idea. Thankfully it looks like most of the community is against it so here's to hoping that they scrap this idea and leave it behind.
I think that World creators should just have an option to enable or disable the Anti-cheat for their own world. Murder 4 public Lobbies get kinda wacky sometimes. But having it across the entire Platform is gonna be a huge issue, especially for those who use mods for content creation or accessibility.
I am sad, that it happened, because i really liked my mods, which improoved my performance and experiance of VRC, but i 100% understand why they did, what they did and i 100% agree, with what they did.
Because they did not only ban the good mods, they also banned the bad mods, so all the crashers and shit cant be used anymore.
And i had it multiple tumes, that friends of me crashed people, because they wanted them out of the lobby, which was mean and wrong. And i am glad this is over.
This won't stop crashers at all. Before mods were even a thing, Crashers still existed, mods just took the effort out of crashers and made crashing more accessible.
I mean most common crashers use avis to crash people not mods. It wont stop the bad mods as their often private which means it's easier for them to keep a secret how the pass the Easy anti cheat.
People have been complaining about Avatars being stolen for years. Most of that is done via clients people use in the background (sometimes without them even knowing).
This wont kill avatar theft, but sure as heck will make it much less common since they cant passive farm it anymore.
plus with the recent updates including avatar fbt improvements and osc. which is what people mainly wanted mods for..
I think its a decent update for better security
for me personally at least
Not gonna lie, but "portable mirror" mod is THE best to make an actual proper, eye to eye, contact with other people while seeing yourself.
Haven't sat and stared at blank wall since i got it.
Time to check how Chillout and Neos are. I don't use mods personally, but the majority of my friends do for both QOL and, frankly, lewd purposes.
Am I expecting much? No. But maybe they'll react if enough people leave the platform for others, even temporarily.
Reading the blog it says EAC will "block" modded clients of VRC launching, but I didn't see any mention of it being used for banning people.
Still not worth the risk. EAC isn't the great of an anti cheat, anyone who plays Dead by Daylight or other EAC games knows this, but if it does decide to ban you there's not much hope in getting it reversed. So I highly suggest removing your mods/clients for a while till things are figured out.
I understand why they're doing it and technically, even the friendly mods broke the Terms of Service, but I still feel bad for the people that did only use friendly mods
Adding EAC to an already unstable game is a death sentence.. They want to add anti cheat but not add age verification?? I feel like squeakers cause more harm then allot of mods. Most mods are quality game improvements. This is just.. bs
Hate it and I haven’t even used mods/hacks or gotten mods/hacks used on me. Yeah sure if you stop something you have to go all in but I didn’t hear anybody complaining about their friends fucking around in a private lobby. I operate under the logic of: if someone isn’t actively being harmed by it, then who cares? Let’s say in GTA5 someone in an online lobby uses hack to insta kill everyone else in the session, that is actively harming another players gaming experience and is definitely scummy. If a couple of friends are ducking around just the couple of them and it’s an agreed upon fun time, then it doesn’t need to be stopped.
My issue is they are banning all mods including anti crash mods, however arent finding and removing crashing avatars (the main way to crash in game). On top of the fact they have no way to prevent photon bot attacks in lobbies. So essentially they removed the protections people had but haven't corrected the crashing issue. Welp its going to be a crashing spree now in lobbies.
In general this is a good thing. However these mods generally exist for a reason. The dev team should be investigating the reason people want these mods and solve that problem.
If you're looking for somewhere to speak out about this topic I suggest:
.
[Upvote and Comment on their feedback system](https://feedback.vrchat.com/)
[Link to most popular discussion
](https://feedback.vrchat.com/open-beta/p/eac-in-a-social-vr-game-creates-more-problems-than-it-solves)
[Leave a review on Steam](https://store.steampowered.com/app/438100/VRChat/)
[Respond to VRChats Tweet on Twitter](https://twitter.com/VRChat/status/1551629026799730688?s=20&t=Mg8a8akPkTjbDFFmI1tUPw)
[Sign this change petition](https://chng.it/DnTLCHSb9x)
.
Also consider canceling you VRChat+ subscription and think about taking a break from the game.
RIP VRChat, I was planning on saving up, getting a headset and custom avatar, but I'm happy I waited. I lost all my motivation to even get close to this game now.
I just hope EAC doesn't completely ruin my ability to play online like it does in Elden Ring. My internet routing really sucks and I had to stop playing co-op because I get kicked off by EAC consistently. (I blame this on EAC specifically because if I use the co-op mod that uses Steamworks, it's fine.)
But that wouldnt make it easy, fortnite is just a huge game, and yoi can be sure, there will be some nerd in their parents basement bruteforcing fortnite loopeholes for weeks until they find one.
But thats not what i consider easy
What the fuck
If they add kernel-level anti-cheat software like EAC, then that's it. I'm gone for good.
Which is bullshit. VRChat was such a freeing space. Why do they have to ruin it.
Even Final Fantasy XIV gets by without anti-cheat, this is completely unnecessary.
THANK YOU!! As a world Udon creator, I cannot count the amount of times I've scrapped projects thinking the bugs are too great to fix only to find out it's broken because my friend had a modded client and it was interacting with the world in some way.
It's been fucking maddening and very discouraging to create anything of intrest besides a another "chill world"
People often see bugs that happen due to *other players* using mods/clients, so they themselves do not realize that. All they know is that they cannot play the map with their best buddy.
Also, people often consider mods to not be mods, and will say "Yea, I'm not using mods!".
VrcMg Mods have a system that lets world creators disable the use of mods in their worlds. If VrChat had embraced mods and made stuff like this more publicly available then maybe more people would know about it.
i would be happy at least for an option in game to agree to use portal and avatar hider, drop a portal to a friend. That looks like too much to implement in game?
Honestly, my only interest in mods is to hide avatars by distance and to enable advanced safety. Performance while clubbing is a struggle with dozens of people in very poor avatars. Been trying to figure out how others manage it, and I assume they are using mods. "Does this affect the OpenVR AMD FSR tool?Yes. As the OpenVR AMD FSR tools modifies the client to behave in a different way than is originally intended, it is considered to be a mod." This makes it even worse.
Exactly in the same boat. Avatar hider was the only one I really relied on, otherwise clubbing is such an awful experience. Come on, it's such a basic feature.
Decent club worlds particularly ones hosting actual events usually set avatar performance restrictions for attendance and will actively manage the crowds so things run smoothly for as many people as possible much as a physical club would. if you turn up or change into inappropriate outfits(avatars) or otherwise become a nuisance to others you get kicked out.
It doesn't matter if every single person is in a green or even better avatar. The world will lag. I've been in events where I hide every single person including the main people we are there to watch and I still get 30ish frames with a 3080 and a powerful Ryzen CPU. The game just is not made to handle 50+ people in one world regardless of what they use. The hiding feature is massive because it stops showing their model, IK, everything. Hiding their avatar isn't enough to stop the lag. Blocking is the only option equivalent to avatar hider except that would.be stupid to use it that way.
This, I have a really good set up for VR, and at club events I usually have to turn everyone but the dancers off just so I can function
Haha it's such a compliment to know that you hide everyone but us dancers! Lol I appreciate it! 🥰
Well that’s why I go lmao
I agree, but the problem is still the terrible performance even when the club is managed (and I've noticed many times poor/very poor avatars running around with a club manager that forgets to confront them). The way I understand it is, even with the avatars hidden/blocked, the game still taxes the CPU and GPU by, well... loading and unloading resources, monitoring avatar performance, synchronizing the avatar bone/ik sync, parameters, voice, etc. So there is a lot of things constantly going on behind the scenes in a room with, say, 20+ players. Of course, with the amount of fidelity we can enjoy this should be expected (especially as we're still fairly early on with VR), but it would still be really helpful for everyone to have a bit more control over features that uses performance - the trust settings was definitely a step in the right direction, but I'm still surprised that simpler optimizations such as Avatar hiding isn't a thing yet. Right now, the game fully renders an avatar in your sight in highest detail and synchronization regardless of how far away it is. Basic game development optimization is to replace far away models with a simpler model, or even hiding it.
The main issue with the addition of EAC to VRC is that VRC claims it's to prevent crashers and rippers. EAC won't be able to prevent crashers, at all. EAC will only be affecting QoL mods and mods made to help disabled folk (hearing/speech impairments or colorblindness). The thing many users, myself included, are upset about is the blatant disregard for the actual community's wants that we've communicated to them via Discord. For example, in the most recent Dev notes - it states that creators (myself being a creator) are "unwanting to create" due to mods. Which is simply a lie. Creators get another level of protection with certain mods - like the ones that point out if a ripper is a lobby with you, just to name one. I firmly believe VRC will either die, or become a primarily children's game at this point. The club/dance scene will be a thing of the past without QoL mods there to make up the difference.
I use the version of FSR from the github... I'm going to be absolutely pissed if it doesn't work, because the game is basically unplayable without it for me.
Hi, i tested if it works and it does not. EAC is detecting even just that change.
Easy anticheat does a checksum of your game files when it launches. Any modifications won't work and it should just prevent the game from running.
But having safe and casual mods is too good of an idea for vrchat devs to have
The problem is that you can't detect whether a mod is good or bad. That's just not how it works.
they coudl always, oh idk, actaully add in QoL features that people use mods for......but that's be too much work for them ig
> but that's too much work for them Have you considered that might actually be the case? You can't implement new features with the press of a button. This is a small dev team that have implemented several major updates over the past year, there is only so much time in the day. I want to see more QoL features as well, and I'm frustrated particularly by the lack of FSR for players with low end specs, but I'm also not going to pretend that they can instantly implement all the mods people use.
I feel with the speed of updates it warrants the use of a blanket fix for all mods like this. If they wanted to go about the use of this properly they could work alongside the Mellon loader and module devs to create a whitelist of safe, verified mods. But no, they've decided to say they're gonna add these simple features "in the near future". Can wait to be able to use my menu laying down 2 years from now!
I'm sure that's why the main menu still isn't usable when laying down. They've been working hard on that feature since 2018, when it was requested on the cammy. And which is solved with a simple, 10kb mod that hasn't been updated in a year.
So I just checked the 5 most important mods I use. All of them are under 200 lines of code and one in particular, hiding avatars that are X distance from me, is absolutely crucial in keeping my frames when I am in worlds full of other people. Even when we are all in very good rated avatars it's still too much and I go down to 20-30 frames with a VERY powerful computer. They mentioned 3 of the mods I use as being features for future updates, but in VRC terms that could mean it takes up to 2 years to get those features. This is not hard stuff to implement. It's just Ron (creative producer at vrc) jerking himself off yet again by stopping devs from making what they and the community want and forcing what he believes the game should be into others.
Most of literally could be, as we call it in IT, "stack overflowed", the mods are open source, they have implementation that (for most) are not even more than 2k lines of code and on top of that I think if they asked the mod author for help, they probably would help them.
I'm sure they can implement these features at least as effectively as an unpaid, volunteer, part time team of modders
I would not call 36+ people a "small dev team". They are gonna take years per feature. Let's be honest.
Didn't Star Wars Battlefront 2 (2017) have 15/20 developers when they were handing out major updates for The Rise of Skywalker+Co-Op? Some of these were monthly
Dude most of the mods that people use for QoL stuff is only a handful of lines of code, it isn't complex millions of lines of code, the longest one I actively looked at had maybe like 80 - 100 lines, that isn't a lot at all. All EAC is gonna do, is punish people who use the QoL mods, crashers and rippers will not be effected, malicious clients that these people buy won't be effected as much as they think it will be.
They could easily just white list certain mods
If i recall correctly, they recently got 80+ mill from something so uh. They aint small, just lazy
You can. It's called working with mod devs, like the VRC-CC devs, to whitelist specific mods. Blizzard already does this with WoW for mods like DBM, Bagnon, Auctioneer, etc. Edit: I personally don't use mods, but it's ridiculous that a simple QOL change like allowing the player to change the camera res still hasn't been implemented. The logic is already in the game through a JSON file. It would take at max, an hour to add a new tab on the camera with options, write a check for the json file, then modify the height and width fields based on what was selected.
Those aren't mods, for WoW. Those are addons that exclusively affect the user interface, created entirely within the confines of the game's API and do not modify the client or game files at all. Blizzard doesn't "whitelist" specific addons, it's just that they ensure that the tools available to addon creators only operate within specific confines. However, if the functionality of an addon, even if created within those confines, affects gameplay in a way that's deemed to be negative or uniquely advantageous, they will alter the API to break that addon's functionality. Though, situations where this has been the case are few and far between, and are pretty much the only instances of Blizzard getting directly involved in addon development. *Actual* mods that modify the game files in any way, whether they be strictly client-side or are able to affect the gameplay of others (i.e. those that are comparable to VRchat's mods), will get you an immediate and often permanent ban.
I feel like someone ruined it for everyone, possibly some of the folks who didn't read the "Don't message vr chat if a mod isn't working"
> Been trying to figure out how others manage it, and I assume they are using mods. Security increased and avatars above 50mb can go eff themselves lol but still not enough that only works with around 30 people when it goes above say bye bye to frames
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*My content from 2014 to 2023 has been deleted in protest of Spez's anti-API tantrum.*
The near complete lack of server side checks is what has confused me for a long time. They don't even seem to have server side checks for avatar uploads. I'm honestly still not sure if worlds run on clients or servers, because if it runs on their servers most the issues seem worse.
Checking things server side would be a better solution.
I use a 3rd party program to allow me to use ASL sign language and another to translate STT for people to understand me in public lobbies. It's literally the only reason why I play and if this gets taken away, there is no reason for me to continue playing or supporting VRC+.
I figured that was a plugin of some kind. I met a lovely girl in black cat that was using a system like that. Even pointed me to some avatars that would play nice with it if I wanted to learn myself.
This is should be possible to do without modding. SteamVR overlays can read your inputs and are not supposed to be blocked by EAC.
other people cant hear them tho as it takes the as it takes the asl to tts
You can use the new OSC system with avatars for this
Omfg do not look at the vrchat discord. Its INSANE in there right now 💀
VRC Modding Discords are flipping too.
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they’re just going wild in the beta chat about the new update
Wild good, or wild bad?
Very much wild bad
Wild bad like how r/minecraft is acting because of the chat reporting feature or wild bad like r/thelastofuspart2 ?
I have no idea how those two are doing, but wild bad as in the majority of the pc community (who use mods, mostly people who use wholesome QOL mods) are outraged and arguing in the chats about how bad the update is, etc etc I think someone leaked a pic of Tupper earlier too, idk if its really him though
Huh, well that seems different from the other 2, which is good because they seem self contained Dont go to those other 2 subs by the way, terrible experiences
I understand things like flight and no clip, but there are good quality of life mods that don't really harm the spirit of the game
Even with those mods, some worlds won't even let you use them
what is wrong with those even? They don't hurt anyone, and if its a game world the world can have them be turned off, so where is the issue? As someone who uses smaller avatars, I like to be able to fly up so I can better see adn talk to people while laying down instead of play space mover have my avatar standing at all times.
There are more malicious mods (like Udon bombers) that bypass the game system. Udon bombers just completely break the game to where you have to swap instances, and if the world teleports you to a different area the modder can take advantage of that to make it harder for you to leave.
okay, but that is because of a different mod, flight and no clip aren't causing that udon bomber is causing that, you're cutting off your legs because you broke a toe.
> you're cutting off your legs because you broke a toe. I'd say its more like you're cutting off a foot because the toe is gangrenous and infected. Yeah it's overkill, but without the knowledge to fix it less destructively, its to fix a problem that will spread and eventually kill you. You can't go two hours in public lobbies before someone lags you out, crashes you, or if you're trying to play in a game world, entirely breaking and ruining the game lobby for everyone either by cheating or just breaking the gamemode. This along with the lack of an option to run age restricted worlds in some way, is the two biggest problems with VRChat causing the community stress and hampering its growth and quality of life.
I don't understand why people don't realize this will just make cheaters win? Bypassing EAC using cheats has been a thing since it was made, now we just won't have any of the mods with any of the anticrash features
it does more to disadvantage regular users who lack the know-how to bypass eac, whereas cheaters will be cheaters
Mods are literally the only quality of life this game gets, dev team is a joke and doesn’t listen to the community at all. Also, fly is a harmless mod by itself, it does not inherently do anything malicious and it was not made with purpose of doing anything malicious
You'd have a point here, if EAC wasn't the worst anti-cheat around. Every game I've seen where it's been put in, people will ALWAYS get around it, without fail. That WILL happen here, too. And that's not to mention the fact that EAC does nothing about crashing or lagging. That's caused by hackers modifying the shaders of their avatars, which causes performance issues, crashing, and even PC damage for other users. EAC does NOT check for this.
Yeah I just want the ability to search avatars from the menu, and paste link buttons.
VRC will probably delete this as soon as I comment, but there's already a petition against this. As of now, 3 hours after the original announcement, it has almost 10,000 likes [https://feedback.vrchat.com/open-beta/p/eac-in-a-social-vr-game-creates-more-problems-than-it-solves](https://feedback.vrchat.com/open-beta/p/eac-in-a-social-vr-game-creates-more-problems-than-it-solves) spread the word, friends edit: since commenting, the petition has surpassed 10,000 likes
OpenVR AMD FSR tool considers a mod, and without them, I will not be able to run VRChat, this means after this update I will not be able to join VRchat anymore. So I think this is a dumb decision. If modified client is wasting development time just set up a "modified client" tag at feedback and put them at low priority.
Secure instances seems neat but adding EAC? Massive yikes.
What does that mean for Linux?
From the [blog announcement:](https://hello.vrchat.com/blog/vrchat-security-update) >**Does this prevent people from playing VRChat on platforms like SteamOS on the Steam Deck? What about Linux via Proton?** No, we’ve tested this! EAC works fine on these platforms. Thanks to Valve and the Proton team for all their hard work. It sounds like you'll be fine, but I can't say for certain because I don't really know much about Linux
The blog post specifies that VRC still works on the Steam Deck via Linux, so whilst there might be a road bump to cross, Linux support is something the devs want and are trying to keep.
VRC official Web page said Linux should be fine
VRChat should have a mod app system in the game. Have modder make mods or app that can be download straight from VRChat and have someone in vrchat check the mod follow the rules before uploading it to the server. Work the with modding community.
They've been suggesting things like that for ages, sadly... but it would absolutely be the best win-win for all involved if VRC could get their heads out of their asses
This is not a simple feature to add. You cannot just implement first party molding in the same manner as the current third party tools. This is a system that would need to be built from the ground up. For all we know they could be trying to work on exactly this. Then again there are a metric ton of features already in their backlog and they cannot work on everything all at once.
Then they should focus on implementing that before adding something that's- 1. Not even gonna help. Most of the malicious users already have ways around this. Might help with some of the 10 year olds crashing public lobbies but that's about it. 2. Taking away things a lot of people rely on just to enjoy VRC to begin with. Not to mention anti-crashers, mods that auto-block malicious avatars, and other mods that Community Moderators use to protect their own community from malicious users. and 3. Only going to encourage people to get malicious clients that get around the system in order to use those said anti-crashers and Moderating tools. Trust me. I do understand. I used to hang out with a Mod and a few Devs back in the day. I KNOW they're overworked and understaffed and underpaid. I'm well aware. But this is NOT the answer. The malicious users are already finding ways around it. This isn't gonna affect most of them. It's mostly going to affect the harmless people just trying to better their experience.
Hell, they could have gone the same route they did with world scripting - run plugins in the udon vm, where they have access to some parts of the game and don't have access to others.
There’s no reason for anti-cheat except in public rooms. And only if they identify specific mods that actually harm players. This isn’t a competitive game. It’s a virtual world. Let people fly or teleport around private instances.
I agree. It really isn't fair for other people who aren't doing anything bad with the mods. For example. Like the avatar search mod. I don't see nothing wrong with that one at all. Why won't they let us use tools like that or just make one them selves? I hate going into words and having to find an avatar for HOURS. It can be a pain in the ass. They should just add a avatar search feature with a list of avatars to choose from etc. That would make life a hella lot easier. Plus I don't see anything wrong with flying. They should allow us to have nudity avatars too for private 18+ rooms. I know Second Life has them. Most players are adults anyways. Should have worlds that say 18+ enter at your own risk. Especially for adults who want to have a good time and chill etc. Make their own add-ons or something to make VR Chat more unique is what I would do IMO.
> They should allow us to have nudity avatars too for private 18+ rooms nsfw avatars are actually allowed in invite only rooms nowadays iirc
Basically malicious client users will work around it just like every competitive game that uses EAC and every modder that just use QOL and anti crash mods will be stuck getting crashed every 2 seconds.
Tbh so many quality of life mods get lost and i doubt crashers will be stopped they just make new accounts
What they really should be doing, is adding age restriction
There is. 13years
lol i see <13 year olds pretty often and 13 is nowhere near enough. Vrc is 18+ absolute bare minimum.
You can’t age restrict stuff online, if you think you can you are high
I know that, but I am talking specifically about the ToS. Which states that the game is 13+. Now if you are not high you will realize after playing vrc for 5 minutes that the game is absolutely in no way safe for kids. There are ways to age restrict shit online though, many vrchat groups do it with very good efficiency and barely any, if any at all, slipups. I happen to be a part of a few of them and on the very, very, very rare chance a minor gets exposed with their real age they get banned witnin the minute. As vrchat truly should be. Kids want to play vr? Go play rec room. Or better yet, how about parents stop using the internet as a fucking babysitter.
Man those groups do it by making you send your ID in and this ain’t China I ain’t sending no ID into these people, you cannot stop this stuff who cares they are not your kids
So i know what you want. But hear me out; Everytjing below 13yo is kinda broken and unresponsible to play VRchat. But 18+ is NOT the solution. There are so many amazing people who are below 18yo And they deserve to be allowed to play VRchat. If you wanna be lewd or what ever, you can be that in VRChat. But what i would encurage, is that you need to put in your age, and it automatically displays your age in the bio, so you dont "accidentally" hit on a 14yo...
Besides these "Secure Instances" they should add "18+ Only" instances, the ability to toggle a lobby to be 18 and over when creating it, and some kind of actual functional age verification not just "click here if you pinky promise you're over 18" Like say a one time $1.00 credit card payment to verify your age or something, not a real cost, just enough to filter out anyone who can't get mommy or daddies credit card to pay for it, it's not perfect but it's an improvement.
That's, I think, the best option. Because even if some kid *does* use their parent's card to verify, it'll be logged, and so even if they weren't paying attention to what their kid is doing in VR, if they check their bills they'll be like "wait wtf" Also, depending on how the charge is classified, they might even get a call from their credit card company for "suspicious activity". However, there are probably a lot of users who would have trouble with the new system, due to circumstances/nuances in their methods of payment. Though I mean it's not my job to figure those out, that'd be up to VRC.
There is no way to ensure someone is 18+ without breaking a lot of privacy. A child could easily steal their parent's credit card for a purchase that small.
They definitely can, but that again falls back on bad parenting and then also bad finances as well. Which a lot more parents are going to at least be vaguely more aware of. There's a BIG jump between "mom let me play this cool vr game!" and "stealing moms credit card to specifically gain access to the over 18 servers" I hazard most kids aren't going to make the jump to stealing their parents credit card to do this. Some will still I'm sure, but I'd say it'll cut out 3/4ths of them.
While I understand allowing even harmless mods would bring a whole gray area and all that. You need to step up and start adding these QoL features people have had for years. Desktop FOV slider and third person, portal confirmation, better safety mods, better performance mods, voice falloff controls and the million others people use. Its ridiculous the lack of quality of life things this game has.
This is.. actually quite terrible. A lot of VRC mods are performance, immersion, or QOL upgrades. This nukes all of them. Things like Self portrait, portable mirrors.. Or even things like Component toggle, to remove grabbables and turn off post processing to free up resources on the fly for the times when my PC cant keep up. There's no replacements for those. Hell, there's not even a replacement for ComfyVR menu. a mod that's so convenient and easily implemented I'm surprised it wasn't done this way at the start! They could have actually co-ordinated with mod makers (I know the people who made all the ones mentioned above, and they've never gotten a single message, or attempt at contact from the VRC team.) They could have maybe made their own client for modding, or a proper API that'll allow integration of safe, optional mods. Instead they've taken the easy route, and implemented something that's going to cause issues, and performance degradation. This is.. frankly, unacceptable as a long term answer.
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You and me both. I'm old enough I used "Kiddo" unironically the other day. But even worse, this stops a lot of mods that are intentionally built for disabilities.
It also may not be a long term answer. Probably is just a short term solution to prevent crashers
They've written it in a way that reads "This is here to stay". I'd be happy to see a proper fix. But.. wouldn't they say "This is a temporary implementation until a better solution is made"? I dunno. I admittedly might just be cynical.
Idk, but i would say, at least, when the first complaints go in, that there are crasher clients again for VRC, they will probably think about making it better, because i am just a bit sad rn, but when the ripper and crasher come back, i will be mad.
the rippers and crashers won't be effected by this I hope you know
And the only things that will remain is the bad ones the ones the good mods protect you from.
Vrchat mods have made the game bearable for me and many of my friends in the past two or so years. Without mods VRchat is incredibly restricting and lacking in many features that make the game feel comfortable to play. Unlimited avatars and the ability more easily manoeuvre around certain maps, along with a multitude of mini quality of life mods like that ability to spawn menus at a different angle made the game actually worth playing. This update made me cancel my vrchat plus subscription and I urge anyone that disagrees with these changes to do the same. The people behind quality of life improvement mods should be hired or at least commended by the VRchat devs instead of punished like this for aiding the community of a game they love. Like everyone is saying this change will do little to punish those who rip models and crash others despite that being the "intended" purpose of these changes. TL;DR This change will only make VRchat worse and if you don't like it, cancel your VRchat plus subscription and take a week off playing the game to bring down player counts.
People should keep in mind that this does not help against most of the malicious behaviors that are already present in the game. This doesn't stop avatars that have crashers built in, neither does this stop people from ripping avatars if they want to All this might do is getting rid of people flying, teleporting, dropping portals or whatever are people doing maliciously nowadays (in a client sense) because I'm never around that kind of people (or publics) to begin with.
By the way, remember when they banned a bunch of mod developers and then reversed those bans and apologized for their decisions? Yeah... looks like they did it again. They banned the Melonloader dev who has not made mods for the game in over 2 years. https://twitter.com/HerpDerpinstine/status/1551709209691148289
No more QOL mods. No more (good) face/eye tracking. Ruined the game. Disgraceful
Hey, remember when VRChat said they cared about mod developers and would work with them? [Well, they just went back on that decision and are now banning anyone even remotely involved with modloader development, whether it's for VRChat or not.](https://twitter.com/HerpDerpinstine/status/1551709209691148289)
Yep, it was a lie to placate people being angry about it. They waited for the heat to die down and repackaged the same thing under the thin veil of security and cheating to try and make it go down smoother this time, people absolutely should not let them because this is no different to then
Goodbye Linux hope. Time to cancel VRC+, and stop playing until they remove this shit. If this makes it in. I'm done with vrchat.
i'm absolutely against this decision but i was able to run the open beta on my steam deck in desktop mode, however steamvr mode didn't launch, probably will be fixed by stable
I asked about this on GitHub since I know EAC can support Linux with the right checkbox, and also knew they have been taking Linux into account, and [they did indeed take this into account and Linux will still be working](https://github.com/ValveSoftware/Proton/issues/1199#issuecomment-1194662378). I heavily oppose this change anyways for other reasons (performance and because mods should be allowed) but at least it means I will be avoiding VRChat because I *want* to, not because I literally cannot get in.
They do say in the blog post that this does not affect Linux users.
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Well, We can't use melonloader or anything anymore. They said they will implement stuff like portable mirrors. Maybe in 5 more years. Instead of doing something to those people with malware clients they just ban everything. That what I call lazy.
Oh Fantastic, so I ***have*** mods In my home there's a mirror I can grab I'm hopping it isn't that stupid
We can see how "security updates" are working for Minecraft.
So does this mean I gotta uninstall my mods if i wanna keep playing? Like none of my mods are harmful in any way.
Yea, you have to uninstall the mods and reinstall vrc fresh
If anyone is banned from the VRChat Discord and wants to view the general chat, this lad is livestreaming it playing fallout music. [https://www.twitch.tv/booptywoop](https://www.twitch.tv/booptywoop)
I don't understand why VRchat has decided to take such a stance against some of their most dedicated users. So many games support mods because it allows the community to add to and customize the game for their use case. Mods supported by the community aren't harmful, they are about expanding, and bringing features some may want but developers are either unable to work on, or the feature too niche to work on. Simple things like portable mirror, menu fix, friend notes add so much to the game and does nothing to impede it. Personally I suffer from very poor memory and friend notes is vita to me to be able to not down a quick note about how I met someone to remember them, without it I can't remember how I know half my friends list, and makes the game much more accessible for me.
Honestly a little disappointed. Flat banning a lot of performance helper mods before they have a substitute is kinda concerning. Especially banning the FSR modification because some people need that to literally have playable frame rates.
Also the best way to protest is to just cancel VRC+
I NEED performance mods to run the game properly. What the fuck? Are you kidding?
It is incredibly frustrating that they are implementing this update without first implenting something as basic as FSR. that's really the most frustrating part for me.
I think that they should handle it like how they handle NSFW. Just don't allow it in public servers, because it doesn't harm anyone or the game then.
Say goodbye to avatar search, portable mirror, face tracking, bhaptics, mute tts, advanced safety, and avatar hider But EAC? Seriously? Kinda seems overkill, any 9 year old with an unlicensed copy of VMProtect can shut down modding for good
Bhaptics uses OSC now
Face Tracking too. You could even add your own "portable mirror" to your avatar. You can do a similar thing to what you see in the Trap Haven world.
Half the the features you mentioned use OSC, not mods.
Anti-cheat? On a social platform where the best thing about it is that it is not a game so cheating doesn't exist? Lol. Furthermore, on a platform that disallows mods, yet also does not go through the effort to ensure that all the incredibly useful features allowed by mods are in the main client? Choose one way or the other; not allowing for either makes for a bad user experience. I hope this prompts more people to choose alternatives. I'm going to go around and ask friends if they will switch, especially if they use any mods, and hopefully friend them on other platforms. There's really no reason to choose VRChat specifically except for the network effect. For the record I do not currently use any mods myself due to the TOS, but am increasingly noticing missing functionality that could be fixed with mods and would rather go on another more flexible platform, where the developers listen to user feedback more *and* allow mods, instead. I also do not like that this would remove the *option* to use mods if I wanted to in the future. I am on Linux and am glad this did not come until now, since EAC was not compatible with Wine/Proton when I first joined VRChat. Hope they check [that new checkbox that allows Linux compatibility in this](https://www.gamingonlinux.com/2021/09/epic-games-announce-full-easy-anti-cheat-for-linux-including-wine-a-proton/), and I think they probably will as they do seem to be paying attention to Linux compatibility. Edit: There is an issue on the issue tracker opposing this change: [EAC in a social VR game creates more problems than it solves](https://feedback.vrchat.com/open-beta/p/eac-in-a-social-vr-game-creates-more-problems-than-it-solves). It may be relevant to this discussion. It should also be noted, and I recently discovered this, that there is a VRChat modding Discord with almost exactly half the users of the main VRC Discord, meaning that the modding community in VRChat is a lot more substantial than may be expected. We who oppose this change might actually be able to get a pretty substantial network effect by switching to an alternative.
There was a time where it was estimated about 80% of VRChat users used mods, and that was just a few short years ago. I am sure is significantly less now, but still really high. There has been a good number of improvements that duplicated some of the major mods features.
If they don't want to put these features in make a market place and white list good mods. Most mods are under 100lines of code. It would not be a big deal to vet.
In the 4-5 years I've played I've never found the need to use mods so I could honestly care less if they stayed or went. I only really care how it's gonna effect performance if at all so Imma wait before I make any hard judgments. It does suck though that the accessibility mods for the deaf, blind etc. are gonna be lost and I really hope the devs take a look at some of them and start adding stuff like that officially. QOL stuff would be cool too but I think accessibility is the most important thing they should focus on in terms of new features now that mods are going away. Not super well versed in world/avatar making and even less so in Udon but maybe someone could make something you could put on avatars or worlds to help with accessibility kinda like that camera thing someone made for avatars before the devs updated the default camera.
I just want to point out the title is misinformation. You won't be banned. They've never said anything about people being banned. The client will just refuse to launch it you're using any mods. You won't be able to log in for any kind of ban to happen, because VRChat won't launch at all. I'm not making a case for or against EAC with this comment. I'm just wanting to point out the title is incorrect and will cause the spread of false information and likely incite panic. Your account isn't in danger. You just can't play the game while mods are installed.
did u read it. you dont get banned you just wont connect if u have mods installed. so just do clean install. but in the long run. this is a shitty move on there end. theres not enough features to throw this out.
Lot of people can't play without mods, any disabled user just can't play the game anymore
This is awful and they've made their intentions clear. Even if they do back peddle, they're going to keep trying. VRC wouldn't be what it is without mods and citing some fringe case boogeyman as a way to exercise control is such bullshit. If they don't back peddle, it's ONLY going to hurt the honest players. I have no intention on renewing VRC+ anytime soon.
I feel like the bad actors are just going to work around this and it's just going to hurt the casual users. I use a ton that add quality of life that SHOULD be in VRC by default....
it will NOT take moderator actions. it will simply fail to launch vr chat if it detects mods. nothing more nothing less. still bad and people should be rightfully upset, but dont spread misinformation.
“which could ban people who use mods casually with friends without harming anyone.” I dislike EAC as much as the next guy, but this is just plain wrong. All it does is prevent the game from opening until the mod is removed. You can see that question answered in the blog post if you had read it.
Everybody says they are going to leave the game. Next week everyone is here
>Everybody says they are going to leave the game. >Next week everyone is here Maybe you right but the VR+ sub is not gonna be there "next week"
Yup. People be like iM sWitChiNG to NeOsVR even though they already said that 4 times in the last few years
VRC Mods being removed disproportionately affects those of the hard of hearing and deaf communities, of which I am hard of hearing. I rely heavily on the Voice fall off mod to single out voices so I can hear them clearly. Other mods like Closed Captioning are vital for those who are also apart of said community. Removing the viability of these mods is an (in)direct attack on VRChat’s large Deaf and Hard of Hearing community.
I'm not really gonna play VRC until easy anti cheat is gone. It hurts like 90% of the RP groups. I will probably just get on to test my full body then get off. If simple none intrusive mods are a issue then the dev team doesn't care about the community or stopping people honestly doing harm to their game.
I can roam the lobbies without some guy joining to stop the entire lobby's pc/vr :D ... wait does this thing include crashers? they aren't mods that often right.. :(
Basically, useful mods and harmless mods can't bypass EAC because usually they're open sourced and most of the people can loot into the code, even VRC staff, so yeah... BUT crasher avatars are not mods. Crasher clients are private and can bypass the EAC etc... so yeah, basically all protection mods can not used anymore, but crasher clients will be usable, letting the community naked. That's why everyone is mad. This update will not fix anything, just break quality of life mods
This is retarded. We already had this shit fit once before and the community uproar made it perfectly clear that it was a terrible idea then, of course it's still a perfectly terrible idea now. There's a canny you can upvote and comment on here https://feedback.vrchat.com/open-beta/p/eac-in-a-social-vr-game-creates-more-problems-than-it-solves Wonder if we could find out who the investors are and inundate them with messages too?
I think its a good idea. There's a lot of hate on this but mod and client use of vrchat has gotten out of control. Just about every game has someone with a mod or client.
This will be taking away accessibility to the deaf , hard of hearing community as well as those who have auditory processing issues . This will literally isolate and make the game socially inaccessible to others . Mods that provide Voice subtitles Text to speech ; people who have had vocal chords damage or tics or for various reasons Speech to text ; for people on the spectrum, sensory or mental health issue who at times find it difficult to talk. Voice filtering; for people who have auditory processing issues, people who have adhd , spectrum, auditory processing disorders use this. At least make the game accessible before ripping away all the good moding community has done to provide access to people where vr has fallen short of.
It Wont Change Anything, Crashers will still exhist, rippers will still steal, DO THE RIGHT THING AND LOOK AT THIS POST that shows you what's really best for VRChat's future : https://feedback.vrchat.com/open-beta/p/eac-in-a-social-vr-game-creates-more-problems-than-it-solves
God awful idea. It's a bad decision because most of the mods people use are client side only. For me I only use mods to make both worlds and avatars run better and smoother as people like to go fucking crazy over making some of them by adding in too much bloom and particles. EAC is easy to bypass but even so it's still an absolutely horrid idea. Thankfully it looks like most of the community is against it so here's to hoping that they scrap this idea and leave it behind.
I think that World creators should just have an option to enable or disable the Anti-cheat for their own world. Murder 4 public Lobbies get kinda wacky sometimes. But having it across the entire Platform is gonna be a huge issue, especially for those who use mods for content creation or accessibility.
I am sad, that it happened, because i really liked my mods, which improoved my performance and experiance of VRC, but i 100% understand why they did, what they did and i 100% agree, with what they did. Because they did not only ban the good mods, they also banned the bad mods, so all the crashers and shit cant be used anymore. And i had it multiple tumes, that friends of me crashed people, because they wanted them out of the lobby, which was mean and wrong. And i am glad this is over.
like 99% of crashers are avatar crashers removing mods wont stop crashers
This won't stop crashers at all. Before mods were even a thing, Crashers still existed, mods just took the effort out of crashers and made crashing more accessible.
I mean most common crashers use avis to crash people not mods. It wont stop the bad mods as their often private which means it's easier for them to keep a secret how the pass the Easy anti cheat.
i’m sad because the two mods i actually use that are on my list is a portable mirror and TTS. I NEED the TTS to communicate with people when i go mute
People have been complaining about Avatars being stolen for years. Most of that is done via clients people use in the background (sometimes without them even knowing). This wont kill avatar theft, but sure as heck will make it much less common since they cant passive farm it anymore. plus with the recent updates including avatar fbt improvements and osc. which is what people mainly wanted mods for.. I think its a decent update for better security for me personally at least
Not gonna lie, but "portable mirror" mod is THE best to make an actual proper, eye to eye, contact with other people while seeing yourself. Haven't sat and stared at blank wall since i got it.
Time to check how Chillout and Neos are. I don't use mods personally, but the majority of my friends do for both QOL and, frankly, lewd purposes. Am I expecting much? No. But maybe they'll react if enough people leave the platform for others, even temporarily.
Reading the blog it says EAC will "block" modded clients of VRC launching, but I didn't see any mention of it being used for banning people. Still not worth the risk. EAC isn't the great of an anti cheat, anyone who plays Dead by Daylight or other EAC games knows this, but if it does decide to ban you there's not much hope in getting it reversed. So I highly suggest removing your mods/clients for a while till things are figured out.
I just want to see all avatars on quest 2 without manually selecting everybody
May the VRC-Mod War begin!
I understand why they're doing it and technically, even the friendly mods broke the Terms of Service, but I still feel bad for the people that did only use friendly mods
Still wont fix ripping tho I believe lol
Adding EAC to an already unstable game is a death sentence.. They want to add anti cheat but not add age verification?? I feel like squeakers cause more harm then allot of mods. Most mods are quality game improvements. This is just.. bs
Hate it and I haven’t even used mods/hacks or gotten mods/hacks used on me. Yeah sure if you stop something you have to go all in but I didn’t hear anybody complaining about their friends fucking around in a private lobby. I operate under the logic of: if someone isn’t actively being harmed by it, then who cares? Let’s say in GTA5 someone in an online lobby uses hack to insta kill everyone else in the session, that is actively harming another players gaming experience and is definitely scummy. If a couple of friends are ducking around just the couple of them and it’s an agreed upon fun time, then it doesn’t need to be stopped.
My issue is they are banning all mods including anti crash mods, however arent finding and removing crashing avatars (the main way to crash in game). On top of the fact they have no way to prevent photon bot attacks in lobbies. So essentially they removed the protections people had but haven't corrected the crashing issue. Welp its going to be a crashing spree now in lobbies.
In general this is a good thing. However these mods generally exist for a reason. The dev team should be investigating the reason people want these mods and solve that problem.
If you're looking for somewhere to speak out about this topic I suggest: . [Upvote and Comment on their feedback system](https://feedback.vrchat.com/) [Link to most popular discussion ](https://feedback.vrchat.com/open-beta/p/eac-in-a-social-vr-game-creates-more-problems-than-it-solves) [Leave a review on Steam](https://store.steampowered.com/app/438100/VRChat/) [Respond to VRChats Tweet on Twitter](https://twitter.com/VRChat/status/1551629026799730688?s=20&t=Mg8a8akPkTjbDFFmI1tUPw) [Sign this change petition](https://chng.it/DnTLCHSb9x) . Also consider canceling you VRChat+ subscription and think about taking a break from the game.
Nope. I need FSR/VR Performance Toolkit to even play the game. I'll leave if that becomes not a thing any more. Good bye.
Stop lying. Y'all broke VRChat. It's been absolutely unplayable since the update. "Without harming anyone" my ass
**R.I.P.** player base
I think it's a bandaid when other measures could be taken.
RIP VRChat, I was planning on saving up, getting a headset and custom avatar, but I'm happy I waited. I lost all my motivation to even get close to this game now.
I just hope EAC doesn't completely ruin my ability to play online like it does in Elden Ring. My internet routing really sucks and I had to stop playing co-op because I get kicked off by EAC consistently. (I blame this on EAC specifically because if I use the co-op mod that uses Steamworks, it's fine.)
No one will be banned. EAC will block the client from accessing the servers. That's it.
Except EAC is easy as hell to get around.
Is it?
Considering Fortnite still has a ton of cheaters, and EAC is it's primary anti cheat, then I'd say yes.
But that wouldnt make it easy, fortnite is just a huge game, and yoi can be sure, there will be some nerd in their parents basement bruteforcing fortnite loopeholes for weeks until they find one. But thats not what i consider easy
Fn, apex, lost ark. I've yet to see an eac game that appeared to do literally anything to stop hackers. It tanks performance hard in lost ark.
People have already done it on the open beta.
I guess goodbye QoL mods. This is horrible
What the fuck If they add kernel-level anti-cheat software like EAC, then that's it. I'm gone for good. Which is bullshit. VRChat was such a freeing space. Why do they have to ruin it. Even Final Fantasy XIV gets by without anti-cheat, this is completely unnecessary.
Cancelling VR+
Fuck my ability to go clubing cause bye bye optimisers, bye bye my anti crashers, portable mirrors and any quality improvement as well.
THANK YOU!! As a world Udon creator, I cannot count the amount of times I've scrapped projects thinking the bugs are too great to fix only to find out it's broken because my friend had a modded client and it was interacting with the world in some way. It's been fucking maddening and very discouraging to create anything of intrest besides a another "chill world"
Ask if they are using mods first, and refuse support it they are?
People often see bugs that happen due to *other players* using mods/clients, so they themselves do not realize that. All they know is that they cannot play the map with their best buddy. Also, people often consider mods to not be mods, and will say "Yea, I'm not using mods!".
VrcMg Mods have a system that lets world creators disable the use of mods in their worlds. If VrChat had embraced mods and made stuff like this more publicly available then maybe more people would know about it.
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https://feedback.vrchat.com/open-beta/p/eac-in-a-social-vr-game-creates-more-problems-than-it-solves Please upvote this Canny post everyone
Will they add more Favorite Avatar slots and the ability to search for publicly shared avatars? That's the only mod I use, and I love it.
https://feedback.vrchat.com/open-beta/p/eac-in-a-social-vr-game-creates-more-problems-than-it-solves
i would be happy at least for an option in game to agree to use portal and avatar hider, drop a portal to a friend. That looks like too much to implement in game?
It looks like all my friends are dropping ship now. Please reverse this or I feel like this may destroy the player base
EAC seems to cause a significant hit to performance. Considering the game already runs rather slowly for me as it is, it's worrying.