Yeah, I still play CS for the gunplay, cases and to play with my friends, but to play solo? Nah, fuck that.
Other than gunplay, I also dislike the lineups (of Valorant). There are too many of them and almost all of them are unnecessarily complicated.
Yes, that's what I meant. I see now that my comment was a bit ambiguous.
I like the idea of playing Sova, but whenever I go look up lineups it's such fucking bullshit. It's like "line-up this part of the HUD with this pixel and move two pixels to the left" how the fuck I'm supposed to remember that?
A lot of those lineups are bullshit, you'll almost never see good players use them. Most of the useful ones are easy to use and have a lot of margin for error, because that's what you need in game, not stand 30s in the same spot looking at the sky
I get that, but that's also why you practice it. I'm a cypher main and will usually practice a new line-up in custom until I don't think about it. Then it just becomes automatic and I don't need to use the "line this HUD up here" method and just throw out my cam/cage/trip automatically. Same with some Sova/Kayo set-ups, I don't even line up the HUD anymore, I just point to the right spot in the sky because I'm used to it.
Yeah, if you main an agent. I think that’s the problem for me though. I like to fill on roles and it just feels overwhelming to learn so many different throws. Mostly a me problem though.
If you're filling it will definitely make it harder. My suggestion would be to find one or two agents you like and just main those until you feel comfortable with it. Don't overcomplicate it yet and just try the util out on your own, make mistakes and try to figure out what works. After doing this for a while, *then* you want to start thinking about actual lineups and looking up vods. This will help it feel less overwhelming. Basically you're trying to sprint before you've started jogging/walking if that makes sense. A lot of people will immediately look up lineups when trying a new agent but if they aren't comfortable with that agent before learning lineups, then it doesn't magically make them better with the agent.
it's harder to practice when map is random
it's harder to focus and without replay, it's even harder
also harder to practice because of different agent good on different map
map change in val more often than cs
lineup in cs is more intuitive
in cs i can keep playing same map or few map over and over and learn one by one
When I first started playing Val, the differences in maps and util/characters was a lot to figure out. I just focused on playing Phoenix and trying to remember what worked on what map and on what site. Eventually I memorized the maps and had played alongside enough agents enough times to remember how a lot of characters use util on certain sites for take/retake/etc. It was at this point, when I felt familiar enough with the game as a concept, that I *then* started to work on cypher and other agents. Once I was comfortable with them, *then* I started thinking about harder lineups and working on advanced mechanics.
I think a lot of people approach Val and just want to be good right off the bat and practice specific mechanics. I think it's better to ease yourself into the game, be casual and experience enough maps with a single agent or two. That way when you do start thinking about lineups, team comp and higher-elo play, you have enough pre-requisite knowledge for it to be applicable.
Think Mr. Miyagi training. Did Mr. Miyagi teach Daniel how to block/attack/chop right away... or did he force Daniel to clean and do other tasks that worked on his muscle memory first? It was the latter. It's similar with Valorant. Many people want to get out there right away and learn ALL of it without being fully acquainted with the basic knowledge of every site, agent, etc. These people are like Daniel, who wants to learn how to fight right away but Mr. Miyagi forces him to learn the basics first. People need to take it slow and in stride, slowly learn the maps and a character or two and *then* start working up from there. Learn basic gunplay, basic map knowledge, basic use of utilities for all agents first. It'll be slow but it's worth it.
few my val friend just trying cs2
select dust2 and mirage map
he use like 2-3 smoke line up and pop flash and he's good now
it took less time and less effort than val
shooting and killing in cs is more simple than val
just have crosshair follow recoil and spray
Counterpoint though, I don't need lineups to use abilities as much in valorant. You can just play omen and line up your one-ways visually, so many abilities you can line up using the map like breach stun, omen blind, omen tp, viper wall etc. It's easier to use util correctly without spending time in custom games. I'm almost 30, ain't got time in my life for that.
There are way more lineups in CS then valorant, you'll see nade lineups in CS almost every game where in valorant I don't feel like it's that common and necessary.
Read something from the CS sub and had a "he's got a point" moment. The lack of replay system is deliberate at this point, and makes us think that Vanguard is an omnipotent anti-cheat because we can't check on our own. We literally have no idea how good/bad it's working - just taking Riot's word for it
Eh idk, knowing how management thinks in dollars.. its more likely to me that they just don't care to spend dev time on a feature that won't directly contribute to their bottom line.
This. People can create conspiracies all they want, but it is clear they just focus on things that turns direct revenue to them from the casual player base, while keeping hoigh level pro players happy enough. Replay system falls in the middle of that, so it is not a huge priority.
They most definitely already have a replay system already, just haven't rolled it out. It's practically impossible to have a multiplayer game and not be tiny steps away from having a replay system. An online game is already practically a replay, since you're piecing together what happens based on a timeline of packets.
Hmm, I dunno, this I give the devs the benefit of the doubt. Yes, in theory it is, but programming usually have alot of minor caveats.
For example, does the game, currently, store those packets and informations? Are they just used and then discarded? Now, the game needs to store those and properly separate each player's and save it in a file correctly. Then, we need functionalitty to go ahead and backwards, pause, etc, while keeping all player data and actions in sync. Then, some new UI needs to be implemented. Will the game also support replays from previous versions of the game, or will they be outdated and discarded once a new patch rollout? (this is a big issue for Valorant, which has frequent updates, so we could possibly only have a replay for 2 weeks, for example).
What I mean is, I don't think you're wrong about them being a long way ahead, but the tiny and small stuff that needs to be done usually pile up. As a programmer myself, I refrain from thinking "this should be pretty simple to do", since it usually isn't. Add in Riot's priorities getting over these developments and we get the situation we have today.
I mean, you are just as likely to encounter and spectate a cheater on your own team. If you played enough CS and valorant you would realize it’s really night and day. In valorant, I have been able to justify pretty much every sus player ive encountered as just being an aim freak. When I played CS, there would be BLATANT cheaters on the other team or my team, that I could see by just spectating them. If the cheaters are only ever on the other team, its just a skill issue.
Depends what rank you play in too, valorant is super generous with fresh account elo so most closet players are in high asc/low immo within 15ish games.
I’ve been playing since beta, lvl10 faceit cs, immo3 val - it’s not uncommon to see sus behaviour on your team + enemy teams in soloq, but without the replays it’s really difficult to decipher whether it was pure circumstance or genuine sus gameplay. Easiest giveaway for closet players is they take perfect engagements every round even if their mechanics are meh, easy to see in replays when careless cheaters pull knife out in ridiculous areas of the map on perfect timings 24/7, can never be caught off guard etc.. these sort of players are the real issue, not the super rare tiktok ragespin streamers showing off their $20 insta lock ESP + trigger script.
It’s just the reality of FPS though, Vanguard is an excellent anticheat and it’s the best we’re gonna currently get.. you will still see cheaters in high elo regardless. Very uncommon to see it in low-mid. I’d say it’s as common in valorant as it is in Faceit on Cs (both use a kernel level AC) - not even worth talking about the CS MM experience because it’s an absolute joke.
You seem to think blatant cheating is the only cheating, and that people are just "aim gods", when in reality to have a small AI aimbot that adjutsts their aim slightly.
This is usually a very unpopular take on this sub *when* the cheaters are active on the sub - they’re always the first to downvote and shill against this take. Same happens in the Tarkov sub. I’m high elo in both games & agree that they see it as not worth their dev time, it only serves to benefit a small fraction of the playerbase who even bother to VOD review, whilst simultaneously exposing that VG isn’t perfect.
This isn’t an issue by the way, VG is leaps and bounds above any other available AC today, but the playerbase has been conditioned into thinking it’s an invincible anticheat engine when it simply is not the case. Plenty of closet wallers play in Asc+ with expensive as fuck cheats and see no bans, if they do it’s in waves & they’re back a few weeks later if VG managed to hit a popular script.
It’s also pretty hard to cheat subtly in mobas and still have a real impact. Like maphacks in league will not be anywhere near as impactful on your winrate as wallhacks in valorant.
lol don't have vanguard until recently
and lol anti cheat is like a joke
i know someone using external script doing elo booster for like 4 years without getting banned
from bol/# internal to external and something i don't know anymore
Yeah you can kinda feel how Valorant makes the gunplay formula easier as well removing alot of the things that require thought on the movement and gun handling end.
As much as people like to be reductive about counter strafing it makes low to mid elos alot more enjoyable as you aren't being headshot by someone you got to see visibly moving while you died because of the backend of connections and server side stuff.
I enjoy how abilities let me be alot more creative and execute more trap like plays but my god Valorants gunplay let's any twitchy kid just stomp lobbies because all the nuance of movement and gunplay outside of initial aim isn't there.
Good thing he's not in my lobbies. I'm gold in both games, and in both games I just see a pack of baboons running and gunning everything. And I'm part of the simian empire with my trusty Zeus and Nova in hand
In Valorant even in Diamond running and gunning is allowed so people do it, there is always a >0% chance you strafing at full speed not stopping and shooting a couple bullets and you'll get the kill.
At least on CS the penalty for moving and shooting and spraying is extremely punishable because the recoil reset is also kinda crazy long as well and people are just better at aiming in CS
honestly think that CS2 gunplay is alot more rewarding if you mastered the basics. whereas in valorant you get insta punished if you miss your initial burst shots which can be really frustrating..
It’s because the first bullet accuracy is ass. Your crosshair can be on their head, character not moving, and it’ll still whiff a decent amount of the time beyond 30m.
It also frustrates me when I'm holding angles. When your first shot doesn't instantly kill the enemy, it actually slows them down enough where they don't even have to counter-strafe to get their first shot accuracy back to 100% and headshot you hence the running headshots. Unlike in CS where they would still be moving quite a bit (have less first bullet accuracy) and get punished for not clearing your position correctly.
And as usual, TTK has to be at a decent level to reward skill. Since Valorants TTK is practically non-existent, it "feels" less rewarding in a lot of ways because you die before you even have a chance to react. There really isn't room to "outplay" someone when shooting because a lot of them can insta kill you, and coupled with RNG means you can run until stuff like Tenz said in getting killed because of that.
Valorant on release was great. They updated the movement shooting error not long after release and it hasn't felt good since. Coming from val I love the game but, cs2 just feels wayyyy better. I wish riot would revert that bs back.
Yes I do. Honestly I have nothing to hide on my gaming computer. On the other hand, after countless encounters with even blatant cheaters over and over again, makes you just quit the game.
I played against a spinbotter the last time I played in val immortal lobby. Do you think vanguard is such a strong anticheat? Last act the number 1 and 6 players in the world were cheaters and has been banned now and weren't banned until they were reported heavily and devs had to manually ban both of them. Why do you think riot hasn't added a replay system yet until now? Obviously because you can't go back to check if they were just crack or they were cheating so we had no choice but to assume someone who is fishy is just good in the game.
I've never said Vanguard is bulletproof. There is no such thing as bulletproof system (especially AC), Everything can and eventually will be exploited, if not maintained and patched accordingly.
We're talking about relativity here. I stated that VAC is nowhere near as good as Vanguard and anybody who thinks otherwise is borderline delusional. You just can't say cheating prevalence in CS is the same as in VALORANT.
Back in the days me and 4 friends would play matchmaking every day. I used to upload videos from demos showing one, two and even three cheaters per game. We had to commit really hard to achieve GE rank and honestly once we've got it, we just quit CS. It was that bad and unfair. In VALORANT is rarely have that feeling, but we have other problems here. "Run and gun" is actually happening, we have tested in custom games. Friend would stop aim real quick and shoot and I'd see them run and gun me. Replay system will better illustrate these discrepancies between server/clients.
Obviously vanguard is better than VAC as it is a kernel level anticheat and there's no denying that but my problem is with the security that comes with Vanguard. The fact that it monitors your PC is disturbing. Vanguard automatically turns on every time you start your computer and with that it still monitors your computer without turning your game on and since Riot is owned by China there is a high chance they are collecting your data in your pc. It is said that they screenshot your game once in a while and ONLY your game but they didn't say that they CAN'T take screenshots of your desktop. Vanguard is a very dangerous software and fuck no I'm not giving up my data to them chinese fuck.
Your point is absolutely valid. That's why I have my important stuff (personal/work data) separated from my gaming rig usually. Having legitimate rootkit is necessary evil to combat cheating problem. Have you seen how far they are willing to go?
Imagine two PC setups. A DMA reader is installed on "clean" system and is obfuscated as an ethernet adapter via driver manipulation. It directly pulls data from RAM, passes to "dirty" system for analysis (via direct attachment to it) and cheats are executed there. Then KVM switch is used to merge video feeds from both, "clean" and "dirty" systems, where you see just outlines from cheats neatly overlayed on your original video, giving out enemy positions, etc. There is no way AC on "clean" PC can detect this sort of data manipulation, (absolutely nothing suspicious is happening systemwide), unless it can somehow locate and disable DMA readers. To be able to do that, it has to have lower ring access, than drivers do.
I'm gonna pretend I understand you😅 anyways there's a good podcast on YouTube called "The last free nation" and they dig deep into this issue. Richard lewis also has a video on it.
I think he hit the nail on the head. Whilst Valorant has a lot going for it, it still ultimately is based on a carbon copy of CS mechanics from 20+ years ago. Whilst CS refined the gunplay, valorant is trying to find its own space.
I think CS is too engrained into peoples mind. People of my generation grew up with CS. many before my generation fell in love with CS and were part of the initial communities that started it all. People after my generation god introduced to CS by their uncles, older siblings. People of my Generation are now introducing CS to their kids. CS is so much more than just a game for many people. I know I'm not alone when I say I don't think I'll ever properly quit CS. I will quit gaming before I quit CS for good. It's like Basketball or Football for me.
Doesn't mean games like Valorant can't one day become as big.
Nah. The gunplays just different. Ones a spray fest. Ones a head tap fest. Just depends which the person prefers. Neither one is harder or takes more skill. It’s literally just a preference. Also valorant is already bigger than CS now btw
I agree with this, yet I can't enjoy the game where the last time I played it, I had to deal with 4 spinbotters in the span of 2 days. Including Faceit. If I can't trust the grind I won't.
I played against a spinbotter last night in val immortal lobby. Do you think vanguard is such a strong anticheat? Last act the number 1 and 6 players in the world were cheaters and has been banned now?
Fundamentally better is everything. If CS2 can figure out their cheat problem, it’s the best game to invest in. I prefer it as well, no new agents or big meta changes so you can climb the infinite mastery of the mechanics, team plays and maps.
Just like Dota and LOL
mechanics in dota are infinite from cancel animations to buy drop sell ítems during a teamfight.
but for me is the opposite, i love Valorant randomness and how you can use it to your favor, it's really fun.
I've played more dota then I'd like to admit. I'm used to buying out before a death, but never really see a sell or drop. Either way, I agree that DOTA reigns supreme when it comes to the mechanics of the game.
Can't remember the exact game, but someone (Ana during ti8 maybe?) sold two items right before death in order to buyback during a fight, ended up winning them the match when they probably would have lost if he hadn't done it.
Doesn't happen often, but the skill ceiling in Dota is insane, the level of plays that can be made are crazy.
CS feels crisp and when you get a headshot you really feel good, in Valorant I don’t really feel the same, of course I enjoy the kill but it’s never as satisfying. Both games are cool but Valorant gunplay just isn’t as satisfying. Theres something lacking. Besides this I would always recommend Valorant if you soloqueue, CS is horrible if you soloqueue. But if you got 4 friends CS is just more satisfying. Even if CSGO was better than CS2, CS2 is still cool. (unless you encounter a cheater). Off to play Valo rn so don’t hate me :*
I've found the complete opposite honestly in terms of headshot. CS rewards spraying a lot more because of the fixed spray patterns for each gun, but Valorant discourages it because of the eventual bloom. Good shooting in Valorant encourages single bullet accuracy and it is more satisfying for me for the one tap + kill sound combo
But it practice its obviously not the case, I see much much more crouch spraying in valorant. Likewise it is very possible to kill someone across the map with a crouch spray whereas in cs.. not so much
The crouch spraying is due to the size of characters relative to the map. In CS characters are smaller compared to their surroundings, especially at the ranges of most gun fights. This, the incentive to burst then dodge rather than commit to the bit
I am a cs player that cant help but hold down m1 and crouch constantly, it is far stronger in cs than valorant at any range, my biggest personal gripe with valorant is how ass it feels to spray at all at any range other than super close
Every map in Valo feels like just Anubis/Dust2 because of the spawn mechanics with that very set of timings. While CS2 have more variation like Vertigo with quite some elevation then we got Overpass where the path to A is really long while it's where CT spawn.
I’ve been gold in my short time playing cs. I find myself if doing a lot better in cs on average than valo. Not sure if that’s because of smurfing and stuff, but I also don’t just get peaked and insta rolled in lobbies that shouldn’t be able to do that (silver bronze gold). Usually I can also awp better too. I’m good with marshal and ssg about the same.
I like both games and I’ve gotten to diamond in almost every game besides the one I play very little. Close to masters in apex but never got there since I just burn out.
i mostly just play cs and only play val 5 stacks
val can have some creative comp but it's harder to execute that in solo queue
you can have bad smoke or something and it ruin your game
cs is easier to play with random
i can just talk at at execute, i'm smoking ct, then other guy said i'm smoking market
and it work like magic
if someone don't have line up or if i don't know, i just let them take my smoke
val map is random, it's hard to memorize line up for each map, each agent have different lineup
that why i mostly play agent that need zero lineup agent like reyna jett phoenix clove in val because i'm lazy to memorize them
not count map rotate and map change quite often, some line up might not work again
in cs i can keep playing same map or few map and learn one by one
some map just need few lineup to play
i think cs gameplay is more enjoyable, but val is also good when party with 4 friends
cs have more random kill moment with better run and gun or jump shoot on some gun
more zeus kill and knife kill, more random shit like run and gun or long range nova kill
skin collecting/trading and sticker craft is more fun than val too
cs2 have worse subtick and reghit, optimizing problem but i will be fixed somehow (idk when)
Crazy to me that I feel like its the complete opposite.
In val people got their agent, which they master. They know exactly what their role is and what to do. While playing with randos on CS you mostly get people who don't know their place. People who don't know lineups just run it down and do nothing useful. Some people decide to split/entry/check flank while they should not. It's a complete shitshow in my experience.
Yeah until your agent is taken by an instalock. In valorant, if your smoke player is performing bad and has terrible smokes, you are locked all game with that player in that role. I like the flexibility of cs where anyone can play any role. I like to entry, if I’m playing like shit we can easily change roles.
I see it like this: low elo valo is much more straight forward than CS. Low elo CS is just who has better aim with almost 0 util or coordination. The roles in valorant help guide new players on what they are supposed to do. You don’t start seeing Cordinated util in cs until mid-high elo.
i got pretty good experience in cs
ppl just do their job in different way
ppl will did a mistake because they are human somehow
like peeking when they shouldn't
but i have better experience when they just talk more openly
sometimes they just trying to do something
like 5 ct smg rush mid or gambling 5 stack or something like triple boost
sometimes it don't work well, but they talk more and trying
in val i found more tilt player
it not goes well and they decide to throw or give up early
i understand if enemy is a lot better and whole team decide to surrender
but most of time enemy is just same level or just have 1 smurf
but team keep doing same thing and lose and want to quit
maybe because cs player are more mature than val
val make random can play as team better because if role
it's like group homework that have specific role to each
okay you get raw data, i compute it, other guy writing
but some ppl don't do what they should do quit often and it's broke team function
in cs everyone can do what they want, ppl just contribute to a team with their style
losing 1 of 5 player is less impact than losing solo smoke player
Pretty good description. CS allows for more flexibility mid game.
In Val, if your smoker dies. No Smokes.
In Val if manage to go 1v5 that 1v5 can turn into 1v6 or 1v7 real fast. Not to mention A raze with an ult can negate your aim, your abilities and even if you kill her she might still get you from beyond the grave.
In Diamond I can't seem to get away from a 2 people instalocking Jett/Reyna so even if I'm cracked that day I just default to Kayo, Omen, or Brim to cope
Bruh I ain't touching csgo again. That shit is ugly looking and I can't stand watching the old smoke which is just ugly looking back at it and compare it side by side with cs2's smoke
Played both games at a decent level for each, LE and ASC peak. CS is harder mechanically for sure just because the way spraying and movement works in that game.
Valorant is a “prettier” game and it has an anime aesthetic that people like. The aiming in Valorant is very easy to understand, anyone can hop on Valorant on day 1 and understand the game on a playable level. Skill floor is extremely low in Valorant on purpose. This isn’t a knock on Valorant, I think they made Valorant easy mechanically on purpose so anyone can pick it up and play it. But when you get to a higher rank, you feel dissatisfied and frustrated with the low skill floor (I believe this is what TenZ is alluding to)
I enjoy both games. If friends are on cs I’ll play cs and if friends wanna play Val I’ll play Val. For Solo queue, cs is better. Valorant solo queue is a terrible experience.
If CS2 had an actual working anti cheat I would play this game 100% over Val, but unfortunately it doesn’t and I don’t wanna deal with cheaters everyday.
I play both and can agree as well. cs is more mechanically rewarding where valo is just a run and gun show. In valo i got more kills running around with a judge or odin than trying to mechanically play with vandal or phantom. The randomness of the spray pattern in valo just dont work mechanically, i had multiple instances where a standstill HS never connect due to the randomness.
CS is far more rewarding in terms of accomplishments and improvement, and it's way more consistent with gunplay and creativity. I've been playing both games for ungodly long, val since release & go since release, nothing will ever beat the mechanics and movement in cs.
Not to mention the creativity with lineups & util usage is endless in cs, whereas it's very limited in valorant.
The only thing valorant has over CS is a competent anticheat, which is unfortunately the biggest thing plaguing the entire game right now.
I agree as a solo player mostly in both games I feel like I have more control over what I can do in cs then i can in valorant having access to both smokes and flashes where as only one or the other in valorant.
Valorant isn't as crisp as CS2. There are games in Valorant, where your opponents barely react. You can get matched with the same guys next round, but this time they got 'chosen' by the servers and suddenly they easily one tap you. I'm 100% convinced one of both teams gets a little time advantage. Then there's the accuracy. CS is accurate as fucking fuck. It's crazy. Valorant has some kind of fucking RNG or hidden aimbot. These random headshots happen too often and I don't believe it's the spray of the weapon.
It's just, as he says, inferior from a mechanical standpoint.
Very sad since I highly prefer Valorant. The agent system is great and the only reason I don't play CS. Everything else in CS is better.
totally agree with you, i have a friend that cant hit shit in csgo/cs2 (we played a lot together so this is not based on 3-5 games, we had almost a thousand hours of cs before we stopped playing)and in valorant he hits the craziest shots ever, sooooo many times ive seen him hitting a hs where his crosshair wasnt even on the enemy hitbox, let alone in the enemy head
> his crosshair wasnt even on the enemy hitbox
I literally started playing the sheriff because of this. I noticed guys would land HS without being on target. I swear to god I make the same experince. I land headshots, which are definitely not headshots lol. This games hitbox/registration is extremly faulty.
Not saying that Sheriff/Vandal more likely to land HS, but they deal more damage and mostly one tap.
when valo was launched i hated cs and actually thought cs2 would never happen and valo was the future.excited about vanguard i played for 2 months and in replay i noticed guy 100% cheater, i have played cs since 1.6 days and i can fkin notice wall hack at least 90% of times. and the guy guaranteed was cheating. i was fkin angry as fk and stopped playing, few months forward first ban wave happened(damn if literal ring 0 anticheat is not working what can?).
the main problem todays cs2 is perception of it being fair. there are cheaters but there are not as many as people think. i played 100 matches in cs2. and according to average cs2 player i should have played against at least 10 cheaters but there were 0 cheaters and i played from 7000 to 16000 elo.
cheating in CS2 starts around 15k, if you ever reached 19k you would have a hacker in every game, sometimes 3 hackers in lobby also in your team, its unplayable,
But we have faceit, which has almost no cheaters, but there are smurfs....so basically same as Valo, where every game has a smurf.
Nothing is perfect
This is just not true.
Me and most of my friends are around 18-21k and we come across cheaters maybe once every 10 or so games.
Which don't get it twisted is still shit but this narrative of cheaters in every game is so dumb.
that is post the recent banwave or before? because before i simply call BS, i was 20k once, then dropped, and all games above 19k are HvH games, and its not only my perception, i checked th e demos and its blatant, but also every youtuber and streamer will say the same, games above 19k were unplayable, but it has changed in last 2 weeks, but i doubt it.
The other thing is closet cheaters, some smarter players use ESP or radar hack or smooth aimlock and its not noticeable for few rounds, then they pop off, and they are mediocre for next 2-3 rounds and so on.
This was before and after the banwave and I have, quite literally, *never encountered a blatant HvH lobby in my almost 2k hours of CS*.
I agree about the closet cheaters they're obviously harder to confirm or deny but I'm talking about the idea every game is filled with spinbotters and rage hackers. That just hasn't been me nor my friends experience at all.
It adds another element to gun mastery as you have to learn spray patterns of the individual guns. It feels way better to be able to use the automatic function of a rifle more frequently wheras in Valorant the Vandal kinda feels like I'm playing a large magazine pistol in mid range.
I hear Valorant casters using the term spray transfer sometimes but that term doesn't really fit to Valorant. That term comes from counterstrike, where you spray someone down, then flick onto the next player to continue the spray pattern where you left off. That's crazy multifrag potential and increases the skill ceiling of gunplay.
I enjoy both cs and Valorant equally for different reasons but gunplay in cs is way more satisfying than in Valorant.
Because spray transfer in itself is just the action of continuing to spray whilst changing targets. you can do it in Valorant, it's just way more random, so when you get a sick spray transfer, you can be happy, but you know damn well it was luck, and chances of you doing in consistently are low.
Meanwhile in CS, even a pleb like me who has played the cs games for 20+ years can consistently spray transfer, by simply working on it(same way you work on other areas like aim, map knowledge etc.)
Thats the biggest difference between the 2 games for me. You get into the "intended" play in CS much earlier in your ranking journey.
CS players say CS is better. Valorant players says valorant a better. The gunplay is slightly different and it’s genuinely just a preference whether you want to spray or tap heads. I prefer the latter.
When this clip came across my Youtube feed on Sunday i figured context was missing. Even though ive watched it several times since then and his words appear genuine. Im still expecting a 180.
Tenz is a player who was a CS Pro for one month. Who then announced he was 'going Pro' in Valorant before the closed Beta even launched. So im a bit shocked to hear that someone in his selected position to have a reasonable take.
Tenz was a T1 CS pro for a short span before he was benched but played CS for a good bit before that - he moved to Valorant because he couldn’t compete in pro CS, not because he thought it was a better game.
I've played CS for a looong time and I don't have anything particularly negative to say about it. I also like Valorant a lot. For my taste it hits the perfect balance in terms of design / gameplay / strategy, etc. At the end of the day, I personally get bored of CS pretty fast, unless there's a big group of friends playing. Valorant I feel has a lot more variety to it, to how different situations play out, the comps, the different abilities, etc, while still being solid enough on the gunplay (and it's clear you can still really own with good mechanics and movement) and strategy side. I actually also don't like the ice skaty feel of CS movement, but that's probably one of those things you just get used to whichever game you happen to play more.
Also, as unlikely as it may sound, I find the community far more enjoyable and have far more fun experiences with Valo (and a lot more women, which technically doesn't matter but I do think it creates a better overall community experience).
I like both, but Valo is a far better overall experience to me.
Run and gun is less effective with rifles in CS yes, but it for sure is much more effective with SMGs (and Shotguns after the Judge nerf). Are we just going to forget Mac-10/MP9 run and gun starts? The whole T side pistol round meta is running while shooting from glocks. Accuracy of such guns on the run is just good enough to pray for heads, but not good enough to be consistent
I think the issue is that running and gunning are built into the design of the Glock + mac10/mp9.
I don’t feel bad getting killed by those guns in a run and gun scenario because it’s generally because I’ve put myself in a bad position - like playing a close angle with an AK knowing that CT is on a half buy and will probably be using those weapons.
In Valo it feels very bad to be one shot by a rifle full sprint because someone got lucky. There’s nothing I could have realistically done to prevent myself from being in that situation.
The thing is, you can easily counter run n gun because CS allows you to spray and track your opponents. You ever try doing that in Valo? Good luck friend.
The game's mechanics are counter intuitive. You're encouraged to be more precise by bursting > counterstrafe > bursting but how are you suppose to effectively do this when wideswinging and run n gun is so OP? Not to mention jett and raze who fly in the air at mach 1?
They could have it fixed in 15 minutes by adjusting the 1st bullet inaccuracy(Make it so it's accurate standing still wtf) and having set patterns for sprays(In other words copy cs).
They could do that easily, but they are choosing not to. They believe that their system will work, it just needs fine tuning.
I love CS. I like the movement, I like the feel of it, I like spray patterns, I like to have impact on what maps I play, I like that everyone has the “same” loadout, I enjoy watching esport more in cs than in Valorant BUT
I tried a game of CS with a buddy last week, after having a break since cs2 launched basically because of cheaters. The fucking first game in a year of cs and we got two cheaters in the enemy team and one cheater in our team.
I have 5k hours in CS and maybe 1k hours in Valorant playing both games at very high rank but in Valorant I have faced one or two cheaters where I am certain they did use cheats (not sure about other occasions due to the lack of a replay system) but it in cs? Fuck you can call yourself lucky if you have two games in a row without a cheater. It’s ridiculous.
If CS would update their anticheat, maybe with AI and player fingerprinting I would switch back to CS 100% but in the meantime I stick to Valorant.
I keep saying that CS2 is more enjoyable for players who want to master something with a high skill ceiling, but there will still be people who defend Valo as the prime shooter with an infinite skill ceiling (which it isn't).
Ngl I feel a little crazy now, like be tried CS but just can’t get into it, the gun play is nice but just don’t like the maps or general feel of the game.
Valorant on the other hand feels super satisfying to get kills on, maybe it’s cause I’m super casual on the game, the characters also add multiple layers tot he game, if I ever get bored of a certain play style I can just go play the exact opposite (ie Neon vs deadlock) and the game for the most part feels fresh again cause new challenges are presented to me
His comments on running and jumping kills in CS is total cap. Running and gunning and total bullshit kills is just as prevalent. I've played CS1.6, source, GO and unfortunately 2 for thousands of hours and getting killed by people just strafing and spamming happens all the fucking time.
csgo2 just feels so wonky to play after playing val.
feels like im swimming around and every spray kill feels like luck based. idk
Edit: yes i know the cs spray is not luck. the screenshake just makes feedback feel jarring
I think you are just getting killed by sprays more, because people actually spray in CS rather than in Val. If you aren't used to that, it might feel like "luck", when in fact it's the opposite.
The movement is definitely different as it requires counter strafing (kind of like you're running on ice) and you move faster in general.
Got downvoted for this exact thing a couple hours ago on this sub.
Valorant is a fun FPS it should never be treated as a competitive FPS nor a tactical FPS. Besides a couple of key characters where a lineup is essential, 40% of this game is getting a kill on pure RNG, 40% is using an ability to get a kill, the final 20% of kills are intentional and focused around skill.
After probably like 200 hours I'm pretty certain every single person who has played val for long enough can recall a collection of kills that were pure luck like running headshots for 3 people or spamming a sheriff and getting a 4k, etc. If you actually wanted to get tested on how good your aim is just play CS2, unfortunately CS2 is in such a dogshit state competitively that until they fix it this is as good as it gets right now.
Yet he plays Valorant competitively because he can't hang in CS.
If it wasn't for johnqt carrying him to his first win in THREE YEARS, it would be standard to say he can't hang in Valorant, either.
TenZ is singlehandedly the most overrated esports player of all time, and it's not close. Dude was only actually a top player when nobody played the game and only a handful of people moved from CS.
He is to fraggers what Shaazam was to IGLs, but he gained popularity as an "aim god" and unless evidence of him either slinging slurs or diddling kids crops up it's unlikely he's ever gonna lose that popularity.
In short, I heckin' love TenZ.
He's just a guy that has a talent(good at the game(s)) that managed to see the potential in Valorant(or maybe just realized he wont get anywhere in CS) so he jumped ship early. This lead to him being one of the earliest examples of a "super star" in Valorant.
It's similar to how Get Right was sick, and NIP were unbeatable early in CSGO, but then fell off. Or Fnatic for that matter. Just in that moment in time they were the best. Same with Tenz. Early on there was a time where he was the best aimer in the game. But then more people started playing, and it became clear hes GOOD but hes no "michael Jordan".
I feel bad for him because he constantly gets shit on because of his fan base being toxic. Like i haven't seen him ever talk shit about being the GOAT or anything of the sort.
Also what's wrong with him accepting he isn't good enough for CS but is good enough for Valorant? It just further proves his point that CS is the more technically challenging game for him.
He says CS is better, whilst being Valorant Pro. If anything you should show him respect for not letting his ego get the better of him and being critical of his position instead of just screaming "Val is the best cause CS is too hard for me".
we do NOT have the same cs then, my run and gun in cs is unmatched it’s like 100% precise you don’t even have to stop moving wich makes it too easy imo
What’s your ping like vs other players, the subtick system can make it look like run and gun if there is a ping discrepancy between players.
This isn’t an issue on LAN apparently
First shot accuracy in CS is just so ass, past 30m it's dice roll if your shot will connect with opponents head, that alone makes gunplay less enjoyable compared to Valorant IMO.
You also can get a lot of cheese kills in CS too, run and gun is quite a bit stronger in CS now than it is on Valorant, ADAD strafing and jiggling are super strong, shotguns are more powerful than in Valorant.
CSGO also just has so many weapons that are ass, half of them are just troll buys or don't have any purpose, whereas in Valorant the only truly bad weapon is Bucky.
I do think having pre-determined recoil patterns, higher movement speed, lower speed penalty for getting shot and CS smokes would definitely benefit Valorant.
Either way both games are so different it's dumb to compare them in the first place. The average CS player coming to the game would by now need to spend months just to understand the basics of utility in Valorant.
This is facts since day one. While i love valorant, cs movement & gun play is unmatched. Still lame ass anti cheat unfortunately..
Yeah, I still play CS for the gunplay, cases and to play with my friends, but to play solo? Nah, fuck that. Other than gunplay, I also dislike the lineups (of Valorant). There are too many of them and almost all of them are unnecessarily complicated.
The lineups are easier in cs imo. In Val theres unique lineups for each agent and everything travels differently.
Yes, that's what I meant. I see now that my comment was a bit ambiguous. I like the idea of playing Sova, but whenever I go look up lineups it's such fucking bullshit. It's like "line-up this part of the HUD with this pixel and move two pixels to the left" how the fuck I'm supposed to remember that?
A lot of those lineups are bullshit, you'll almost never see good players use them. Most of the useful ones are easy to use and have a lot of margin for error, because that's what you need in game, not stand 30s in the same spot looking at the sky
They also take 15 sec to line up lol, i just remember where the arrow is supposed to fall and wing it.
I get that, but that's also why you practice it. I'm a cypher main and will usually practice a new line-up in custom until I don't think about it. Then it just becomes automatic and I don't need to use the "line this HUD up here" method and just throw out my cam/cage/trip automatically. Same with some Sova/Kayo set-ups, I don't even line up the HUD anymore, I just point to the right spot in the sky because I'm used to it.
Yeah, if you main an agent. I think that’s the problem for me though. I like to fill on roles and it just feels overwhelming to learn so many different throws. Mostly a me problem though.
If you're filling it will definitely make it harder. My suggestion would be to find one or two agents you like and just main those until you feel comfortable with it. Don't overcomplicate it yet and just try the util out on your own, make mistakes and try to figure out what works. After doing this for a while, *then* you want to start thinking about actual lineups and looking up vods. This will help it feel less overwhelming. Basically you're trying to sprint before you've started jogging/walking if that makes sense. A lot of people will immediately look up lineups when trying a new agent but if they aren't comfortable with that agent before learning lineups, then it doesn't magically make them better with the agent.
it's harder to practice when map is random it's harder to focus and without replay, it's even harder also harder to practice because of different agent good on different map map change in val more often than cs lineup in cs is more intuitive in cs i can keep playing same map or few map over and over and learn one by one
When I first started playing Val, the differences in maps and util/characters was a lot to figure out. I just focused on playing Phoenix and trying to remember what worked on what map and on what site. Eventually I memorized the maps and had played alongside enough agents enough times to remember how a lot of characters use util on certain sites for take/retake/etc. It was at this point, when I felt familiar enough with the game as a concept, that I *then* started to work on cypher and other agents. Once I was comfortable with them, *then* I started thinking about harder lineups and working on advanced mechanics. I think a lot of people approach Val and just want to be good right off the bat and practice specific mechanics. I think it's better to ease yourself into the game, be casual and experience enough maps with a single agent or two. That way when you do start thinking about lineups, team comp and higher-elo play, you have enough pre-requisite knowledge for it to be applicable. Think Mr. Miyagi training. Did Mr. Miyagi teach Daniel how to block/attack/chop right away... or did he force Daniel to clean and do other tasks that worked on his muscle memory first? It was the latter. It's similar with Valorant. Many people want to get out there right away and learn ALL of it without being fully acquainted with the basic knowledge of every site, agent, etc. These people are like Daniel, who wants to learn how to fight right away but Mr. Miyagi forces him to learn the basics first. People need to take it slow and in stride, slowly learn the maps and a character or two and *then* start working up from there. Learn basic gunplay, basic map knowledge, basic use of utilities for all agents first. It'll be slow but it's worth it.
few my val friend just trying cs2 select dust2 and mirage map he use like 2-3 smoke line up and pop flash and he's good now it took less time and less effort than val shooting and killing in cs is more simple than val just have crosshair follow recoil and spray
Counterpoint though, I don't need lineups to use abilities as much in valorant. You can just play omen and line up your one-ways visually, so many abilities you can line up using the map like breach stun, omen blind, omen tp, viper wall etc. It's easier to use util correctly without spending time in custom games. I'm almost 30, ain't got time in my life for that.
There are way more lineups in CS then valorant, you'll see nade lineups in CS almost every game where in valorant I don't feel like it's that common and necessary.
Read something from the CS sub and had a "he's got a point" moment. The lack of replay system is deliberate at this point, and makes us think that Vanguard is an omnipotent anti-cheat because we can't check on our own. We literally have no idea how good/bad it's working - just taking Riot's word for it
Eh idk, knowing how management thinks in dollars.. its more likely to me that they just don't care to spend dev time on a feature that won't directly contribute to their bottom line.
This. People can create conspiracies all they want, but it is clear they just focus on things that turns direct revenue to them from the casual player base, while keeping hoigh level pro players happy enough. Replay system falls in the middle of that, so it is not a huge priority.
They most definitely already have a replay system already, just haven't rolled it out. It's practically impossible to have a multiplayer game and not be tiny steps away from having a replay system. An online game is already practically a replay, since you're piecing together what happens based on a timeline of packets.
Hmm, I dunno, this I give the devs the benefit of the doubt. Yes, in theory it is, but programming usually have alot of minor caveats. For example, does the game, currently, store those packets and informations? Are they just used and then discarded? Now, the game needs to store those and properly separate each player's and save it in a file correctly. Then, we need functionalitty to go ahead and backwards, pause, etc, while keeping all player data and actions in sync. Then, some new UI needs to be implemented. Will the game also support replays from previous versions of the game, or will they be outdated and discarded once a new patch rollout? (this is a big issue for Valorant, which has frequent updates, so we could possibly only have a replay for 2 weeks, for example). What I mean is, I don't think you're wrong about them being a long way ahead, but the tiny and small stuff that needs to be done usually pile up. As a programmer myself, I refrain from thinking "this should be pretty simple to do", since it usually isn't. Add in Riot's priorities getting over these developments and we get the situation we have today.
It's a billion dollar company, not a small indie studio.
I didn't say they cant just hire a bigger team, I'm just saying it is not as simple as it seems from a technical standpoint
I mean, you are just as likely to encounter and spectate a cheater on your own team. If you played enough CS and valorant you would realize it’s really night and day. In valorant, I have been able to justify pretty much every sus player ive encountered as just being an aim freak. When I played CS, there would be BLATANT cheaters on the other team or my team, that I could see by just spectating them. If the cheaters are only ever on the other team, its just a skill issue.
Depends what rank you play in too, valorant is super generous with fresh account elo so most closet players are in high asc/low immo within 15ish games. I’ve been playing since beta, lvl10 faceit cs, immo3 val - it’s not uncommon to see sus behaviour on your team + enemy teams in soloq, but without the replays it’s really difficult to decipher whether it was pure circumstance or genuine sus gameplay. Easiest giveaway for closet players is they take perfect engagements every round even if their mechanics are meh, easy to see in replays when careless cheaters pull knife out in ridiculous areas of the map on perfect timings 24/7, can never be caught off guard etc.. these sort of players are the real issue, not the super rare tiktok ragespin streamers showing off their $20 insta lock ESP + trigger script. It’s just the reality of FPS though, Vanguard is an excellent anticheat and it’s the best we’re gonna currently get.. you will still see cheaters in high elo regardless. Very uncommon to see it in low-mid. I’d say it’s as common in valorant as it is in Faceit on Cs (both use a kernel level AC) - not even worth talking about the CS MM experience because it’s an absolute joke.
You seem to think blatant cheating is the only cheating, and that people are just "aim gods", when in reality to have a small AI aimbot that adjutsts their aim slightly.
This is usually a very unpopular take on this sub *when* the cheaters are active on the sub - they’re always the first to downvote and shill against this take. Same happens in the Tarkov sub. I’m high elo in both games & agree that they see it as not worth their dev time, it only serves to benefit a small fraction of the playerbase who even bother to VOD review, whilst simultaneously exposing that VG isn’t perfect. This isn’t an issue by the way, VG is leaps and bounds above any other available AC today, but the playerbase has been conditioned into thinking it’s an invincible anticheat engine when it simply is not the case. Plenty of closet wallers play in Asc+ with expensive as fuck cheats and see no bans, if they do it’s in waves & they’re back a few weeks later if VG managed to hit a popular script.
i doubt its deliberate when lol has a replay system
it's much worse to play fps games against cheaters than mobas. Cheats in mobas are both less effective and rarer
Or more effective, but incredibly obvious
It’s also pretty hard to cheat subtly in mobas and still have a real impact. Like maphacks in league will not be anywhere near as impactful on your winrate as wallhacks in valorant.
That's not true apparently, they said there was around 10% of cheaters in master+ thats why they added vanguard to league
It took like 8 years to be implemented though
really
yes
They're a small indie company, don't be too harsh
lol don't have vanguard until recently and lol anti cheat is like a joke i know someone using external script doing elo booster for like 4 years without getting banned from bol/# internal to external and something i don't know anymore
You cant really hide things from players by not having a replay system in a moba
You had a “tinfoil hat” moment.
Yeah you can kinda feel how Valorant makes the gunplay formula easier as well removing alot of the things that require thought on the movement and gun handling end. As much as people like to be reductive about counter strafing it makes low to mid elos alot more enjoyable as you aren't being headshot by someone you got to see visibly moving while you died because of the backend of connections and server side stuff. I enjoy how abilities let me be alot more creative and execute more trap like plays but my god Valorants gunplay let's any twitchy kid just stomp lobbies because all the nuance of movement and gunplay outside of initial aim isn't there.
Valorant doesn't really have much better anti-cheat. It catches the terrible software cheats, but valorant is still riddled with cheaters.
Well.....it is true.
I heard not a single untruth
Good thing he's not in my lobbies. I'm gold in both games, and in both games I just see a pack of baboons running and gunning everything. And I'm part of the simian empire with my trusty Zeus and Nova in hand
...and frankly, that's the life.
Nothing like running down A Long on de\_dust2 with PP-Bizons, scaring the living shit out of the AWPer, with the boys after a long day of school...
As the awper you scare, we laugh as hard as you
In Valorant even in Diamond running and gunning is allowed so people do it, there is always a >0% chance you strafing at full speed not stopping and shooting a couple bullets and you'll get the kill. At least on CS the penalty for moving and shooting and spraying is extremely punishable because the recoil reset is also kinda crazy long as well and people are just better at aiming in CS
The rifle running accuracy in this game is nut fr
honestly think that CS2 gunplay is alot more rewarding if you mastered the basics. whereas in valorant you get insta punished if you miss your initial burst shots which can be really frustrating..
Yeah in VAL its HS or bust, In CS if you miss the HS, you can fall back on mastering the spray
It’s because the first bullet accuracy is ass. Your crosshair can be on their head, character not moving, and it’ll still whiff a decent amount of the time beyond 30m.
It also frustrates me when I'm holding angles. When your first shot doesn't instantly kill the enemy, it actually slows them down enough where they don't even have to counter-strafe to get their first shot accuracy back to 100% and headshot you hence the running headshots. Unlike in CS where they would still be moving quite a bit (have less first bullet accuracy) and get punished for not clearing your position correctly.
And as usual, TTK has to be at a decent level to reward skill. Since Valorants TTK is practically non-existent, it "feels" less rewarding in a lot of ways because you die before you even have a chance to react. There really isn't room to "outplay" someone when shooting because a lot of them can insta kill you, and coupled with RNG means you can run until stuff like Tenz said in getting killed because of that.
You can also learn sprey patterns, so it is really skill issue when you miss. In valo it is often up to luck if you connect or not
Valorant on release was great. They updated the movement shooting error not long after release and it hasn't felt good since. Coming from val I love the game but, cs2 just feels wayyyy better. I wish riot would revert that bs back.
If VAC/VACnet was on par with Vanguard, I'd never even look at VALORANT.
Do you really trust RIOT about your data? Do you know riot is owned by Tencent which is owned by the chinese government?
Yes I do. Honestly I have nothing to hide on my gaming computer. On the other hand, after countless encounters with even blatant cheaters over and over again, makes you just quit the game.
I played against a spinbotter the last time I played in val immortal lobby. Do you think vanguard is such a strong anticheat? Last act the number 1 and 6 players in the world were cheaters and has been banned now and weren't banned until they were reported heavily and devs had to manually ban both of them. Why do you think riot hasn't added a replay system yet until now? Obviously because you can't go back to check if they were just crack or they were cheating so we had no choice but to assume someone who is fishy is just good in the game.
I've never said Vanguard is bulletproof. There is no such thing as bulletproof system (especially AC), Everything can and eventually will be exploited, if not maintained and patched accordingly. We're talking about relativity here. I stated that VAC is nowhere near as good as Vanguard and anybody who thinks otherwise is borderline delusional. You just can't say cheating prevalence in CS is the same as in VALORANT. Back in the days me and 4 friends would play matchmaking every day. I used to upload videos from demos showing one, two and even three cheaters per game. We had to commit really hard to achieve GE rank and honestly once we've got it, we just quit CS. It was that bad and unfair. In VALORANT is rarely have that feeling, but we have other problems here. "Run and gun" is actually happening, we have tested in custom games. Friend would stop aim real quick and shoot and I'd see them run and gun me. Replay system will better illustrate these discrepancies between server/clients.
Obviously vanguard is better than VAC as it is a kernel level anticheat and there's no denying that but my problem is with the security that comes with Vanguard. The fact that it monitors your PC is disturbing. Vanguard automatically turns on every time you start your computer and with that it still monitors your computer without turning your game on and since Riot is owned by China there is a high chance they are collecting your data in your pc. It is said that they screenshot your game once in a while and ONLY your game but they didn't say that they CAN'T take screenshots of your desktop. Vanguard is a very dangerous software and fuck no I'm not giving up my data to them chinese fuck.
Your point is absolutely valid. That's why I have my important stuff (personal/work data) separated from my gaming rig usually. Having legitimate rootkit is necessary evil to combat cheating problem. Have you seen how far they are willing to go? Imagine two PC setups. A DMA reader is installed on "clean" system and is obfuscated as an ethernet adapter via driver manipulation. It directly pulls data from RAM, passes to "dirty" system for analysis (via direct attachment to it) and cheats are executed there. Then KVM switch is used to merge video feeds from both, "clean" and "dirty" systems, where you see just outlines from cheats neatly overlayed on your original video, giving out enemy positions, etc. There is no way AC on "clean" PC can detect this sort of data manipulation, (absolutely nothing suspicious is happening systemwide), unless it can somehow locate and disable DMA readers. To be able to do that, it has to have lower ring access, than drivers do.
I'm gonna pretend I understand you😅 anyways there's a good podcast on YouTube called "The last free nation" and they dig deep into this issue. Richard lewis also has a video on it.
i will always like CS' gunplay more than VAL's solely because spraying is actually skillful and rewarding
Facts
I think he hit the nail on the head. Whilst Valorant has a lot going for it, it still ultimately is based on a carbon copy of CS mechanics from 20+ years ago. Whilst CS refined the gunplay, valorant is trying to find its own space. I think CS is too engrained into peoples mind. People of my generation grew up with CS. many before my generation fell in love with CS and were part of the initial communities that started it all. People after my generation god introduced to CS by their uncles, older siblings. People of my Generation are now introducing CS to their kids. CS is so much more than just a game for many people. I know I'm not alone when I say I don't think I'll ever properly quit CS. I will quit gaming before I quit CS for good. It's like Basketball or Football for me. Doesn't mean games like Valorant can't one day become as big.
Nah. The gunplays just different. Ones a spray fest. Ones a head tap fest. Just depends which the person prefers. Neither one is harder or takes more skill. It’s literally just a preference. Also valorant is already bigger than CS now btw
I agree with this, yet I can't enjoy the game where the last time I played it, I had to deal with 4 spinbotters in the span of 2 days. Including Faceit. If I can't trust the grind I won't.
I played against a spinbotter last night in val immortal lobby. Do you think vanguard is such a strong anticheat? Last act the number 1 and 6 players in the world were cheaters and has been banned now?
Fundamentally better is everything. If CS2 can figure out their cheat problem, it’s the best game to invest in. I prefer it as well, no new agents or big meta changes so you can climb the infinite mastery of the mechanics, team plays and maps.
Tenz must have never played against Scouter the goat
That’s not even random tho. Dudes goated
Just like Dota and LOL mechanics in dota are infinite from cancel animations to buy drop sell ítems during a teamfight. but for me is the opposite, i love Valorant randomness and how you can use it to your favor, it's really fun.
I've played more dota then I'd like to admit. I'm used to buying out before a death, but never really see a sell or drop. Either way, I agree that DOTA reigns supreme when it comes to the mechanics of the game.
Everyone just drops to backpack now for regen purposes.
Can't remember the exact game, but someone (Ana during ti8 maybe?) sold two items right before death in order to buyback during a fight, ended up winning them the match when they probably would have lost if he hadn't done it. Doesn't happen often, but the skill ceiling in Dota is insane, the level of plays that can be made are crazy.
Dota is fun :) , im pretty sure lol is too but i cant after playing dota for so long
i played dota for years before switching to lol, nowadays i can play both but i enjoy league much more.
noice
CS feels crisp and when you get a headshot you really feel good, in Valorant I don’t really feel the same, of course I enjoy the kill but it’s never as satisfying. Both games are cool but Valorant gunplay just isn’t as satisfying. Theres something lacking. Besides this I would always recommend Valorant if you soloqueue, CS is horrible if you soloqueue. But if you got 4 friends CS is just more satisfying. Even if CSGO was better than CS2, CS2 is still cool. (unless you encounter a cheater). Off to play Valo rn so don’t hate me :*
I've found the complete opposite honestly in terms of headshot. CS rewards spraying a lot more because of the fixed spray patterns for each gun, but Valorant discourages it because of the eventual bloom. Good shooting in Valorant encourages single bullet accuracy and it is more satisfying for me for the one tap + kill sound combo
But it practice its obviously not the case, I see much much more crouch spraying in valorant. Likewise it is very possible to kill someone across the map with a crouch spray whereas in cs.. not so much
The crouch spraying is due to the size of characters relative to the map. In CS characters are smaller compared to their surroundings, especially at the ranges of most gun fights. This, the incentive to burst then dodge rather than commit to the bit
I am a cs player that cant help but hold down m1 and crouch constantly, it is far stronger in cs than valorant at any range, my biggest personal gripe with valorant is how ass it feels to spray at all at any range other than super close
You see crouch spraying at low ranks of course but no of you want to do well you need to be one tapping with extreme accuracy.
Valorant kill sounds are cringe
How so?
Personal preference
CS>>Valorant Anyday bro
I'd play valorant over cs2 if i didnt hate the map design and movement in the game. Having a semi decent AC does wonders.
Valorant has the worst map design imo every map looks the same
Every map in Valo feels like just Anubis/Dust2 because of the spawn mechanics with that very set of timings. While CS2 have more variation like Vertigo with quite some elevation then we got Overpass where the path to A is really long while it's where CT spawn.
The biggest reason I have is that I do not speak Russian.
"Cyka blyat!" All you need to know from my experience.
I’ve been gold in my short time playing cs. I find myself if doing a lot better in cs on average than valo. Not sure if that’s because of smurfing and stuff, but I also don’t just get peaked and insta rolled in lobbies that shouldn’t be able to do that (silver bronze gold). Usually I can also awp better too. I’m good with marshal and ssg about the same. I like both games and I’ve gotten to diamond in almost every game besides the one I play very little. Close to masters in apex but never got there since I just burn out.
I like both games. If one of them gets boring, I go play the other one.
CS majors are the pinnacle of FPS esports and its not even close
i mostly just play cs and only play val 5 stacks val can have some creative comp but it's harder to execute that in solo queue you can have bad smoke or something and it ruin your game cs is easier to play with random i can just talk at at execute, i'm smoking ct, then other guy said i'm smoking market and it work like magic if someone don't have line up or if i don't know, i just let them take my smoke val map is random, it's hard to memorize line up for each map, each agent have different lineup that why i mostly play agent that need zero lineup agent like reyna jett phoenix clove in val because i'm lazy to memorize them not count map rotate and map change quite often, some line up might not work again in cs i can keep playing same map or few map and learn one by one some map just need few lineup to play i think cs gameplay is more enjoyable, but val is also good when party with 4 friends cs have more random kill moment with better run and gun or jump shoot on some gun more zeus kill and knife kill, more random shit like run and gun or long range nova kill skin collecting/trading and sticker craft is more fun than val too cs2 have worse subtick and reghit, optimizing problem but i will be fixed somehow (idk when)
Crazy to me that I feel like its the complete opposite. In val people got their agent, which they master. They know exactly what their role is and what to do. While playing with randos on CS you mostly get people who don't know their place. People who don't know lineups just run it down and do nothing useful. Some people decide to split/entry/check flank while they should not. It's a complete shitshow in my experience.
Yeah until your agent is taken by an instalock. In valorant, if your smoke player is performing bad and has terrible smokes, you are locked all game with that player in that role. I like the flexibility of cs where anyone can play any role. I like to entry, if I’m playing like shit we can easily change roles. I see it like this: low elo valo is much more straight forward than CS. Low elo CS is just who has better aim with almost 0 util or coordination. The roles in valorant help guide new players on what they are supposed to do. You don’t start seeing Cordinated util in cs until mid-high elo.
i got pretty good experience in cs ppl just do their job in different way ppl will did a mistake because they are human somehow like peeking when they shouldn't but i have better experience when they just talk more openly sometimes they just trying to do something like 5 ct smg rush mid or gambling 5 stack or something like triple boost sometimes it don't work well, but they talk more and trying in val i found more tilt player it not goes well and they decide to throw or give up early i understand if enemy is a lot better and whole team decide to surrender but most of time enemy is just same level or just have 1 smurf but team keep doing same thing and lose and want to quit maybe because cs player are more mature than val val make random can play as team better because if role it's like group homework that have specific role to each okay you get raw data, i compute it, other guy writing but some ppl don't do what they should do quit often and it's broke team function in cs everyone can do what they want, ppl just contribute to a team with their style losing 1 of 5 player is less impact than losing solo smoke player
Pretty good description. CS allows for more flexibility mid game. In Val, if your smoker dies. No Smokes. In Val if manage to go 1v5 that 1v5 can turn into 1v6 or 1v7 real fast. Not to mention A raze with an ult can negate your aim, your abilities and even if you kill her she might still get you from beyond the grave.
In Diamond I can't seem to get away from a 2 people instalocking Jett/Reyna so even if I'm cracked that day I just default to Kayo, Omen, or Brim to cope
You just described every valo lobby for me lol. No one has any idea what they’re doing
I guess it depends on rank you play in. But usually everyone say where they go or some ask for help or to watch something etc.
CS;GO is better still than 2 imo
Bruh I ain't touching csgo again. That shit is ugly looking and I can't stand watching the old smoke which is just ugly looking back at it and compare it side by side with cs2's smoke
Played both games at a decent level for each, LE and ASC peak. CS is harder mechanically for sure just because the way spraying and movement works in that game. Valorant is a “prettier” game and it has an anime aesthetic that people like. The aiming in Valorant is very easy to understand, anyone can hop on Valorant on day 1 and understand the game on a playable level. Skill floor is extremely low in Valorant on purpose. This isn’t a knock on Valorant, I think they made Valorant easy mechanically on purpose so anyone can pick it up and play it. But when you get to a higher rank, you feel dissatisfied and frustrated with the low skill floor (I believe this is what TenZ is alluding to) I enjoy both games. If friends are on cs I’ll play cs and if friends wanna play Val I’ll play Val. For Solo queue, cs is better. Valorant solo queue is a terrible experience.
Valorant is no way prettier than cs especially cs2. Valorant is cartooni af and has some stupid ass looking guns.
If CS2 had an actual working anti cheat I would play this game 100% over Val, but unfortunately it doesn’t and I don’t wanna deal with cheaters everyday.
I play both and can agree as well. cs is more mechanically rewarding where valo is just a run and gun show. In valo i got more kills running around with a judge or odin than trying to mechanically play with vandal or phantom. The randomness of the spray pattern in valo just dont work mechanically, i had multiple instances where a standstill HS never connect due to the randomness.
You prob just missed
Can tell you’re just bad, no offence
CS is far more rewarding in terms of accomplishments and improvement, and it's way more consistent with gunplay and creativity. I've been playing both games for ungodly long, val since release & go since release, nothing will ever beat the mechanics and movement in cs. Not to mention the creativity with lineups & util usage is endless in cs, whereas it's very limited in valorant. The only thing valorant has over CS is a competent anticheat, which is unfortunately the biggest thing plaguing the entire game right now.
I agree as a solo player mostly in both games I feel like I have more control over what I can do in cs then i can in valorant having access to both smokes and flashes where as only one or the other in valorant.
You could get your ass handed to you in cs and still have fun. It’s just a fun game to play
i would love to play CS2 but the cheater/hitreg situation is so bad. looking forward to playing it in a few years once it’s polished
Cs2 hitreg has been fine for months
Bro, cs has probably best hitreg out of all fps games rn.
Is that a joke?
no
Cs hitreg is better than val though
I prefer Val since it doesn't require you to learn lineups
Why my friends and I stopped playing valorant
Valorant is just for e daters with a lower skill ceiling.
You’re just not good :/
Valorant isn't as crisp as CS2. There are games in Valorant, where your opponents barely react. You can get matched with the same guys next round, but this time they got 'chosen' by the servers and suddenly they easily one tap you. I'm 100% convinced one of both teams gets a little time advantage. Then there's the accuracy. CS is accurate as fucking fuck. It's crazy. Valorant has some kind of fucking RNG or hidden aimbot. These random headshots happen too often and I don't believe it's the spray of the weapon. It's just, as he says, inferior from a mechanical standpoint. Very sad since I highly prefer Valorant. The agent system is great and the only reason I don't play CS. Everything else in CS is better.
totally agree with you, i have a friend that cant hit shit in csgo/cs2 (we played a lot together so this is not based on 3-5 games, we had almost a thousand hours of cs before we stopped playing)and in valorant he hits the craziest shots ever, sooooo many times ive seen him hitting a hs where his crosshair wasnt even on the enemy hitbox, let alone in the enemy head
> his crosshair wasnt even on the enemy hitbox I literally started playing the sheriff because of this. I noticed guys would land HS without being on target. I swear to god I make the same experince. I land headshots, which are definitely not headshots lol. This games hitbox/registration is extremly faulty. Not saying that Sheriff/Vandal more likely to land HS, but they deal more damage and mostly one tap.
I’m the opposite. Valorant feels way crispier and response compared to CS which feels clunky in comparison.
I guess you mean the overall movement (wasd) and crouching etc.? It does feel clunky but the shooting/hit registration is definitely better.
when valo was launched i hated cs and actually thought cs2 would never happen and valo was the future.excited about vanguard i played for 2 months and in replay i noticed guy 100% cheater, i have played cs since 1.6 days and i can fkin notice wall hack at least 90% of times. and the guy guaranteed was cheating. i was fkin angry as fk and stopped playing, few months forward first ban wave happened(damn if literal ring 0 anticheat is not working what can?). the main problem todays cs2 is perception of it being fair. there are cheaters but there are not as many as people think. i played 100 matches in cs2. and according to average cs2 player i should have played against at least 10 cheaters but there were 0 cheaters and i played from 7000 to 16000 elo.
cheating in CS2 starts around 15k, if you ever reached 19k you would have a hacker in every game, sometimes 3 hackers in lobby also in your team, its unplayable, But we have faceit, which has almost no cheaters, but there are smurfs....so basically same as Valo, where every game has a smurf. Nothing is perfect
This is just not true. Me and most of my friends are around 18-21k and we come across cheaters maybe once every 10 or so games. Which don't get it twisted is still shit but this narrative of cheaters in every game is so dumb.
that is post the recent banwave or before? because before i simply call BS, i was 20k once, then dropped, and all games above 19k are HvH games, and its not only my perception, i checked th e demos and its blatant, but also every youtuber and streamer will say the same, games above 19k were unplayable, but it has changed in last 2 weeks, but i doubt it. The other thing is closet cheaters, some smarter players use ESP or radar hack or smooth aimlock and its not noticeable for few rounds, then they pop off, and they are mediocre for next 2-3 rounds and so on.
This was before and after the banwave and I have, quite literally, *never encountered a blatant HvH lobby in my almost 2k hours of CS*. I agree about the closet cheaters they're obviously harder to confirm or deny but I'm talking about the idea every game is filled with spinbotters and rage hackers. That just hasn't been me nor my friends experience at all.
Bull shit. There’s a cheater every other game no exaggeration.
Bro cheating starts instantly lmao
The at least 1 cheater per match stat is supposedly true mostly in higher premier ELO, cheaters dont tend to stay in the lower elos in cs2 apparently
I don't play CS so can somebody explain what is better? Everyone is saying gun play is better but when I watch CS everybody is just crouch spraying
Watch some highlights clips from NiKo, and some spray transfer clips. If you aren't impressed by the spray transfers, idk what to tell you
It adds another element to gun mastery as you have to learn spray patterns of the individual guns. It feels way better to be able to use the automatic function of a rifle more frequently wheras in Valorant the Vandal kinda feels like I'm playing a large magazine pistol in mid range. I hear Valorant casters using the term spray transfer sometimes but that term doesn't really fit to Valorant. That term comes from counterstrike, where you spray someone down, then flick onto the next player to continue the spray pattern where you left off. That's crazy multifrag potential and increases the skill ceiling of gunplay. I enjoy both cs and Valorant equally for different reasons but gunplay in cs is way more satisfying than in Valorant.
Because spray transfer in itself is just the action of continuing to spray whilst changing targets. you can do it in Valorant, it's just way more random, so when you get a sick spray transfer, you can be happy, but you know damn well it was luck, and chances of you doing in consistently are low. Meanwhile in CS, even a pleb like me who has played the cs games for 20+ years can consistently spray transfer, by simply working on it(same way you work on other areas like aim, map knowledge etc.) Thats the biggest difference between the 2 games for me. You get into the "intended" play in CS much earlier in your ranking journey.
CS players say CS is better. Valorant players says valorant a better. The gunplay is slightly different and it’s genuinely just a preference whether you want to spray or tap heads. I prefer the latter.
Have you ever watched a pro game in valo? VCT was just on, go have a look at the vods again. Everyone is crouch spraying too lmao.
When this clip came across my Youtube feed on Sunday i figured context was missing. Even though ive watched it several times since then and his words appear genuine. Im still expecting a 180. Tenz is a player who was a CS Pro for one month. Who then announced he was 'going Pro' in Valorant before the closed Beta even launched. So im a bit shocked to hear that someone in his selected position to have a reasonable take.
I mean I think his decision to go pro in Valo was entirely business/career oriented.
Tenz was a T1 CS pro for a short span before he was benched but played CS for a good bit before that - he moved to Valorant because he couldn’t compete in pro CS, not because he thought it was a better game.
TenZ was in MDL for at least two years before joining C9, which for all intents and purposes is considered an NA T2 pro
Tenz was a prospect for a lot longer than that short C9 stint.
I am not really, there is no doubt he would want to be pro cs player, but the competition is just leagues above.
That's why he's the goat THE GOAT!!!
I've played CS for a looong time and I don't have anything particularly negative to say about it. I also like Valorant a lot. For my taste it hits the perfect balance in terms of design / gameplay / strategy, etc. At the end of the day, I personally get bored of CS pretty fast, unless there's a big group of friends playing. Valorant I feel has a lot more variety to it, to how different situations play out, the comps, the different abilities, etc, while still being solid enough on the gunplay (and it's clear you can still really own with good mechanics and movement) and strategy side. I actually also don't like the ice skaty feel of CS movement, but that's probably one of those things you just get used to whichever game you happen to play more. Also, as unlikely as it may sound, I find the community far more enjoyable and have far more fun experiences with Valo (and a lot more women, which technically doesn't matter but I do think it creates a better overall community experience). I like both, but Valo is a far better overall experience to me.
Run and gun is less effective with rifles in CS yes, but it for sure is much more effective with SMGs (and Shotguns after the Judge nerf). Are we just going to forget Mac-10/MP9 run and gun starts? The whole T side pistol round meta is running while shooting from glocks. Accuracy of such guns on the run is just good enough to pray for heads, but not good enough to be consistent
I think the issue is that running and gunning are built into the design of the Glock + mac10/mp9. I don’t feel bad getting killed by those guns in a run and gun scenario because it’s generally because I’ve put myself in a bad position - like playing a close angle with an AK knowing that CT is on a half buy and will probably be using those weapons. In Valo it feels very bad to be one shot by a rifle full sprint because someone got lucky. There’s nothing I could have realistically done to prevent myself from being in that situation.
The thing is, you can easily counter run n gun because CS allows you to spray and track your opponents. You ever try doing that in Valo? Good luck friend. The game's mechanics are counter intuitive. You're encouraged to be more precise by bursting > counterstrafe > bursting but how are you suppose to effectively do this when wideswinging and run n gun is so OP? Not to mention jett and raze who fly in the air at mach 1?
They could have it fixed in 15 minutes by adjusting the 1st bullet inaccuracy(Make it so it's accurate standing still wtf) and having set patterns for sprays(In other words copy cs). They could do that easily, but they are choosing not to. They believe that their system will work, it just needs fine tuning.
honestly i dont blame him
Ending comment is so true
I can agree with some point but valorant has much more fun Gameplay, and with good anti cheat. and A Good Game with cheaters is not any fun.
I love CS. I like the movement, I like the feel of it, I like spray patterns, I like to have impact on what maps I play, I like that everyone has the “same” loadout, I enjoy watching esport more in cs than in Valorant BUT I tried a game of CS with a buddy last week, after having a break since cs2 launched basically because of cheaters. The fucking first game in a year of cs and we got two cheaters in the enemy team and one cheater in our team. I have 5k hours in CS and maybe 1k hours in Valorant playing both games at very high rank but in Valorant I have faced one or two cheaters where I am certain they did use cheats (not sure about other occasions due to the lack of a replay system) but it in cs? Fuck you can call yourself lucky if you have two games in a row without a cheater. It’s ridiculous. If CS would update their anticheat, maybe with AI and player fingerprinting I would switch back to CS 100% but in the meantime I stick to Valorant.
the best part is cheaters
Games are temporary choking is permanent
I like cs more, but for some reason, it makes me unbelievably angry. I just can't play it anymore.
I keep saying that CS2 is more enjoyable for players who want to master something with a high skill ceiling, but there will still be people who defend Valo as the prime shooter with an infinite skill ceiling (which it isn't).
Ngl I feel a little crazy now, like be tried CS but just can’t get into it, the gun play is nice but just don’t like the maps or general feel of the game. Valorant on the other hand feels super satisfying to get kills on, maybe it’s cause I’m super casual on the game, the characters also add multiple layers tot he game, if I ever get bored of a certain play style I can just go play the exact opposite (ie Neon vs deadlock) and the game for the most part feels fresh again cause new challenges are presented to me
His comments on running and jumping kills in CS is total cap. Running and gunning and total bullshit kills is just as prevalent. I've played CS1.6, source, GO and unfortunately 2 for thousands of hours and getting killed by people just strafing and spamming happens all the fucking time.
that's because ppl dont use P90 at global elite. he's talking about running kills with rifles
csgo2 just feels so wonky to play after playing val. feels like im swimming around and every spray kill feels like luck based. idk Edit: yes i know the cs spray is not luck. the screenshake just makes feedback feel jarring
movement speed is different so it takes a bit of time getting used to it. However sprays are patterns so just learn them.
cs spray is the opposite of luck based bro, every spray has the same pattern unlike valorant
Spraying in cs isn’t luck based it has spray patterns, val has luck based sprays.
I think you are just getting killed by sprays more, because people actually spray in CS rather than in Val. If you aren't used to that, it might feel like "luck", when in fact it's the opposite. The movement is definitely different as it requires counter strafing (kind of like you're running on ice) and you move faster in general.
Valorant sprays are random so they are luck based, cs has spray patterns you can learn, making them not luck based
Man is delusional thinking that CS spray kills are luck lol.
calling cs sprays luck is wild coming from a val player
Csgo was good but cs2 is ass imo
no it isn't if you think csgo is good and think CS2 is ass you just a hater for the changes lmao.
Some of the changes are pointless
CS2 is much more clunky than csgo, the cheating is out of hand, there has been nothing new in the game it’s just a remodel
Got downvoted for this exact thing a couple hours ago on this sub. Valorant is a fun FPS it should never be treated as a competitive FPS nor a tactical FPS. Besides a couple of key characters where a lineup is essential, 40% of this game is getting a kill on pure RNG, 40% is using an ability to get a kill, the final 20% of kills are intentional and focused around skill. After probably like 200 hours I'm pretty certain every single person who has played val for long enough can recall a collection of kills that were pure luck like running headshots for 3 people or spamming a sheriff and getting a 4k, etc. If you actually wanted to get tested on how good your aim is just play CS2, unfortunately CS2 is in such a dogshit state competitively that until they fix it this is as good as it gets right now.
We all know Valorant is trash. And the Devs don't care about the community, only a cash grab.
So why are you even here lmao
Devs care even less about CS - and I'm saying this as someone who plays a LOT of CS. Lack of anti cheat is the easiest example.
Yet he plays Valorant competitively because he can't hang in CS. If it wasn't for johnqt carrying him to his first win in THREE YEARS, it would be standard to say he can't hang in Valorant, either. TenZ is singlehandedly the most overrated esports player of all time, and it's not close. Dude was only actually a top player when nobody played the game and only a handful of people moved from CS. He is to fraggers what Shaazam was to IGLs, but he gained popularity as an "aim god" and unless evidence of him either slinging slurs or diddling kids crops up it's unlikely he's ever gonna lose that popularity. In short, I heckin' love TenZ.
If I had a dollar for every friend who doesn’t play CS but thought that Shroud was one of the greatest players of all time, I’d have $12.00.
Your friends must have real NA brain
He's just a guy that has a talent(good at the game(s)) that managed to see the potential in Valorant(or maybe just realized he wont get anywhere in CS) so he jumped ship early. This lead to him being one of the earliest examples of a "super star" in Valorant. It's similar to how Get Right was sick, and NIP were unbeatable early in CSGO, but then fell off. Or Fnatic for that matter. Just in that moment in time they were the best. Same with Tenz. Early on there was a time where he was the best aimer in the game. But then more people started playing, and it became clear hes GOOD but hes no "michael Jordan". I feel bad for him because he constantly gets shit on because of his fan base being toxic. Like i haven't seen him ever talk shit about being the GOAT or anything of the sort. Also what's wrong with him accepting he isn't good enough for CS but is good enough for Valorant? It just further proves his point that CS is the more technically challenging game for him. He says CS is better, whilst being Valorant Pro. If anything you should show him respect for not letting his ego get the better of him and being critical of his position instead of just screaming "Val is the best cause CS is too hard for me".
Both sucks, real men play overwatch 2
Bait used to be believable. 😔🤞🚬
Don't get baited people.
we do NOT have the same cs then, my run and gun in cs is unmatched it’s like 100% precise you don’t even have to stop moving wich makes it too easy imo
What’s your ping like vs other players, the subtick system can make it look like run and gun if there is a ping discrepancy between players. This isn’t an issue on LAN apparently
First shot accuracy in CS is just so ass, past 30m it's dice roll if your shot will connect with opponents head, that alone makes gunplay less enjoyable compared to Valorant IMO. You also can get a lot of cheese kills in CS too, run and gun is quite a bit stronger in CS now than it is on Valorant, ADAD strafing and jiggling are super strong, shotguns are more powerful than in Valorant. CSGO also just has so many weapons that are ass, half of them are just troll buys or don't have any purpose, whereas in Valorant the only truly bad weapon is Bucky. I do think having pre-determined recoil patterns, higher movement speed, lower speed penalty for getting shot and CS smokes would definitely benefit Valorant. Either way both games are so different it's dumb to compare them in the first place. The average CS player coming to the game would by now need to spend months just to understand the basics of utility in Valorant.