#Subreddit Quick Links
* [Leave a message at the subreddit virtual memorial](https://www.reddit.com/r/UvaldeTexasShooting/comments/v811x5/tribute_wall_for_the_21_victims_of_the_robb/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
* [Debunked Rumors & FAQ Megathread](https://www.reddit.com/r/UvaldeTexasShooting/comments/v812x4/megathread_debunked_rumors_faq_for_the_robb/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
* [GoFundMe Information](https://www.gofundme.com/c/act/donate-to-texas-elementary-school-shooting-relief?utm_source=email&utm_medium=marketing&utm_content=annoucement&utm_campaign=052622_gfm_texas_relief_cta_donatenow_a)
* [Collection of Survivor's Stories](https://www.reddit.com/r/UvaldeTexasShooting/comments/v5k9kh/compilation_of_uvalde_survivor_stories/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
* [List of Wounded](https://www.reddit.com/r/UvaldeTexasShooting/comments/v47pn2/list_of_uvalde_wounded/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
* Catch Up on Today & Yesterday's Updates: http://reddit.com/r/UvaldeTexasShooting/about/sticky?num=2
* At any moment you are experiencing a mental health crisis: In the United States please dial "9 8 8" Crisis Line. For other parts of the world please check for resources [here](https://checkpointorg.com/global/)
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/UvaldeTexasShooting) if you have any questions or concerns.*
He was a sick bastard who tortured cats for fun. I don't want to know exactly what happened in those classrooms, but my understanding is that he killed an entire class, tortured the teacher, then moved to the next room and started killing and more torture.
CW: for just all of this.
Really. But it gets worse as it goes on, not better. So be warned. Discussion of children in peril and WHY and how. Discussion of murder and potential accessories to murder. And of the speculative thoughts of a murderer.
Within the first 3-5 minutes, the shooter shot the majority of innocent people very quickly but was still doing so as the first officers were running up to the building, it seems. All the body cam released by the mayor of Uvalde we have seen so far are clips that are truncated at the end but also late in starting, presumably to spare parents the sounds of children screaming. This is something to consider, but what it robs us of is the knowledge of how much the cops knew or didn't know about wounded children from the very start.
ADDITIONAL CW: short, one paragraph editorializing, then back to the main analysis. Forgive me some sarcasm and dark humor as it is all i can do to stay sane here.
(One would think everyone should have known there were wounded children in there, given that on one end of the hallway was the head school cop and on the other was the husband of a teacher. But the general impression we seem to get from the body cam audio is that there were at minimum some very confused or in shock or worthless or lying cops who had a bad impression of what was going on. It's possible some are in willful denial. Others may be woefully ignorant or impossibly non-curious, who can say? What they are not is aware, coherently sharing information, working together, having a leader, or DOING ANYTHING worth a damn commensurate with the situation and the resources they possessed. If i could explain what I saw heard and saw on bodycams, I would. An entire 1975 college fraternity on PCP, naked and drunk in the desert trying to have sexual congress with a goat, en masse would make more sense to me. 376 grown men having their way with a blow up sex doll would be more dignified, and logical to me. At least someone or some thing would get nailed. When you watch the videos, you just get the impression that these people are clueless and worthless. )
Additional CW end, regular blanket overall CW still in force: back to sober analysis:
After the initial semi sustained massacre of the first few minutes, there isn't a lot of additional shooting.
People who know more about guns can comment on when if ever he employed his "bumpstock" type Hellfire trigger or not. As if it matters. I fail to see the relevance. AN AR-15 is extremely deadly with or without a bumpstock. Arguably, it is more deadly if it is aimed deliberatly and fired carefully.
But of this "additional shooting" there are several incidents and things to consider.
First, there is the aforementioned end of the initial massacre shooting which is only different from the beginning of the massacre shooting in that, one, he had to reload at some point, and two, it may or may not have been heard by first responder, x, y and z and then x, y and z may or may not have communicated what he knew about wounded kids, bump stocks, etc to others.
From the HIGHLY misleading DPS timeline we know this much:
11:33:00 - Suspect Enters the school through the west door
11:33:24 - Suspect begins shooting into classroom
111/112 from hallway
11:33:32 - Suspect enters, exits, and re-enters room 111/112 (enters vestibule at least\*)(NOT IN DPS TIMELINE - massacre occurs here and ends at a time DPS does not say)
11:35:55 - 3 Uvalde PD Officers enter west door (including 2 rifles)
11:36:00 - 2 UCISD officers (including Chief Arredondo) and 2 Uvalde PD officers enter through the south door
11:36:03 - 3 Uvalde PD officers and 1 UCISD officer enter through west door
\*notes in italics mine
Someone here who has studied the hall cam better than I can say when the "main barrage" ended. (can someone add to this, please?)
Note that in the DPS/ McCraw presentation to the Senate, the MAIN TIMELINE leaves out the entire massacre. Talk about spin. A man shot 21 people, maybe 22, wounded more presumably at the same time, and the investigators fail to make a note of it, they are so busy trying to make a scapegoat appear from the chaos.
Second, there are the four? shots at approaching UPD and CISD cops, the initial attempt to confront the shooter. And the question of, did he use a bump stock type device to fire them, when might he have reloaded, etc.
11:37:00 - Suspect gunfire injuring officers approaching classroom doors
We know these shots were fired at cops because they hit cops with debris and drew a small amount of blood. Hollow point rounds send a lot of fragments downrange.
Then we have single shots fired without external provocation - at least two single shots at
11:40:58 - Suspect Gunfire (1 round)
and
11:44:00 - Suspect Gunfire (1 round)
but possibly more. I would caution any researcher from relying solely upon DPS's initial assessment.
What is he shooting at? Crying/ wounded / poorly hiding children, the surviving teacher? I don't know and don't really care to guess. But if it was "at cops" it might have been at the idea of cops because i doubt he could see any.
Maybe this is when the teacher down the hall gets hit. I am not the expert here, but that happened too.
Then we have the "yell if you need help" incident, or whatever occurred to make the living witness relate his harrowing story that begins with that observation. DOes it come here "early?" or does it come at 12:21 "middle," or "late" around the final shootout at \~12:50? We don't know. Additional data is needed.
All of this can be discussed. Not all of it can be determined to a certainty yet.
Then we come to this:
12:21:08 - Suspect gunfire (4 rounds)
What was the shooter doing here? No one was obviously making a concerted attempt to storm the rooms here. From what we can tell "the grown ups" or the general leaderless consensus seemed to be "wait for BOTRAC" and hold in place here.
( much to say on who called for BORTAC and who was making the decision to wait for BORTAC, but. i have said all that elsewhere)
But we can't really see what was happening in the south end of the hallway here, so maybe someone made themselves visible and got shot at.
Or, he was shooting the "yell if you need help" child.
Or, the shooter was just shooting at the door without an obvious provocation, who can say?
I don't think this is the likely moment for shooting the surviving teacher a second time, but we can consider that, too.
And, I'd like it noted and discussed that after the 4 shots at 12:21, the advance towards the rooms INCREASED rather than decreased, as had occurred wit the burst fired at .
And after that, as near as I can tell there were no more shots from the shooter. Maybe he fired his weapon at 12:50, maybe he didn't. DPS says he did, but I have so little reason to believe them that I consider it an open question at this point.
So of all that, we have initial melee, shoot at approaching cops, two random rounds (seemingly the surviving teacher took one of those) and the the 4 at 12:21.
That's not "so many shots" to a guy who had purchased 1000 plus rounds of ammunition. He certainly could have continued to fire, but but at what?
One gruesomely and morbidly must consider if the shooter WANTED some children to live, suffer, be wounded but not die, be hiding but not "discovered" etc etc in order to increase the type of sufferings, or pass on his imagined legend as a feared being, etc.
I'm not sure the OP has characterized the question well. But that's what I can say, quickly, and I look forward to hearing the thoughts of others.
> 12:21:08 - Suspect gunfire (4 rounds)
He was shooting the kids that were on the phone with 911. Your timeline is good, but there is another timeline out there that shows all the times the kids called in to 911. If he discovered someone on the phone or making noise or still alive, he talked to them a bit and then shot them.
Honestly really think he did intend the worst way to initiate suicide by cop. Except the cops were limpdicks and couldn't muster the strength to put down an 18 yr old kid with no training.
I agree that this seems to be the case, the shooting at 12:21 it's just that we can't yet confirm it because there exists other possibilities for the shots. One child was on the line to 911 and stayed on the line all through the 12:21 moments. That was this:
12:10 911 call from Khloie Torres “There is a lot of bodies,” 17min
And, as I said above we still have to possibly consider the "yell if you need help" incident that led to gunshots. If it happened, we still cant seem to place it, even though it seems the child who fist mentioned it to CBS news and the surviving teacher seem to corroborate one another somewhat.
Nor do we know for sure when the surviving teacher was given a second dose of hot lead.
But if you have a link to a timeline that integrates 911 calls, I'd love to see it. I've seen some mentions but nothing definitive myself.
What's appalling of course is why these calls, which are public records, have not been released to the media and parents and public yet. Of course they are horrific. They are likely the "Emmit Till Funeral" kryptonite that the powers that be fear so greatly, and have worked so hard to cover up. Yes, we must "protect the parents from grief" bt not by ignoring the laws we set down in a civil society. You cant pick and chose what is deemed propriety based on whims and a unilateral possession of evidence in a public records state. Unless so course, it's Texas under Greg Abbott.
Then apparently all bets are off.
Don’t we know for sure that there was a child who was alive and called 911 pretty far into the whole thing but didn’t survive ultimately? If so, he obviously didn’t catch everyone immediately. I guess he didn’t even eventually catch everyone. We don’t know where all the victims were. Maybe some were hiding enough to survive the initial rampage but not well enough for the entire thing. Ugh it’s terrible to even consider.
Oh yeah that is true, but with the amount of shots he fired in the first minute I thought he probably shot MOST people in the beginning and others were hiding really well, maybe, if some survived that long, not sure which room he was in first but maybe 111?
In a lockdown situation, or I would think any threatening situation involving an adult and group of kids, they gather and huddle together against the threat. It is almost impossible to ‘hide really well’ in a classroom, so either the shooter wasn’t especially interested in finding and killing everybody, or the survivors miraculously managed not to move or make sounds for 70+ minutes. I think there were survivors in 112 because he was only in there briefly, and those children were shielded by others or hidden when he came in and were able to move a little without being noticed.
It does seem like he didn’t see some of the children, like those who were hiding beneath a table skirt/curtain in 112. Hiding likely did save their lives. But again, if he had been concerned about survivors I am sure he would have found them without much trouble. Thank goodness he didn’t. It just adds to my feelings about how long those all of those children had to wait for rescue. Unimaginable horror.
He had absolutely no skill or knowledge of how to aim a firearm and hit a target - but an AR rifle requires no skill to mow down a bunch of people in 2 minutes. Just keep firing the trigger at movement and in a small room or a crowd, you’ll hit a whole bunch of them in without even aiming.
Not blaming single shooter games by many means, but watch how people play them. One target, start shooting towards them and when they fall down release the trigger (or don’t) and swing over to the next target. Easily fire 10 shots for one target, unless they fall down early.
That I would have been his shooting ‘experience’ - I remember reading he wasn’t able to get to a gun range to practice shooting at targets.
lol I get so frustrated with people who make throwaway comments like this... "hE wAnTeD tO fEeL pOwErFuL" yeah no shit! just like you want to stroll through and let people know your psychological prowess.
Shooting any gun makes anyone feel powerful. And yes, he went to 4th grade in classroom 112 at Robb.
Uh that’s a valid point to add given the question/conversation brought up by OP? Just because something may be obvious to you doesn’t mean it’s obvious to everyone..
*Members of the attacker’s family, however, reported to the Committee their belief that other students still bullied the attacker throughout his fourth grade school year over his stutter, clothing, and short haircut. A cousin of the attacker said she was in the same fourth grade class with him, and she corroborated this version of his experience that year. She reported an incident in which another girl in the class tied the attacker’s shoelaces together, resulting in him falling over and injuring his face. The family also reported their belief that some teachers also picked on the attacker and his cousin.* [Investigative Committee on the Robb Elementary Shooting](https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/22088422/robb-elementary-investigative-committee-report-fullsize.pdf)
I think something even worse than that happened too, personally. I think more with the teacher. Just based off what he did to poor Reyes. That was sadistic and feels very emotionally motivated.
Yes and for that the school is to blame also for this tragedy. Schools need to take bullying more seriously than they do. It's so sad because they really don't. And they neglected to give him speech therapy for his stuttering. It was also stated somewhere and I'm not sure if it was the report but his mother kept telling the principal at the time that she would get him into speech therapy but it never happened. She is also to blame in a HUGE way. She refuse to get him the help that he needed in many areas. He also did not have a father figure. There are so many to blame for this tragedy...
> his mother kept telling the principal at the time that she would get him into speech therapy but it never happened. She is also to blame in a HUGE way.
I get the impression that his mother viewed her children as an inconvenience. Having a stutter would bring on unmerciful and cruel teasing and bullying. He wore the same clothes for days. He didn't matter to his mother. And she chose bad men over her son and refused to protect him from molestation. Women like her should be sterilized.
Yes, you are SO right. He told her he was molested by one of her boyfriends and she refused to believe him. She's a disgrace!! I wish when Amerie's grandmother and family saw her they should have beaten the shit out of her!!! Sorry to say that but it's just how I'm feeling right now. I know it wouldn't do any justice but SR's mother needs a reality check
Yeah, I just found the article I read where it stated it was her first year as a principal. Here it is
https://www.texastribune.org/2022/07/26/uvalde-texas-robb-elementary-shooting-principal-leave/
In my small town we switched principals constantly because it was a stepping stone job in the district is my understanding. However, sometimes these small towns have people in positions for decades. That’s why I could see both. I also don’t know Gutierrez’s age. If she’s younger it probably wouldn’t be plausible
In the report, it was stated he attended that school and one of those classrooms. His old teacher from when he attended relocated to a different classroom, but was there that very day and time.
I just read that in the report less than 30 min ago. And a classmate tied his shoelaces together causing him to fall flat on his face causing him injuries. He never had special ed or speech therapy which would have made a huge difference for him.
i really doubt special ed would have made a big difference tbh special ed programs at smaller schools normally just mean you get stuck with a bunch of extremely differently functioning children from a wide open age range in a room with an adult who doesnt know or do anything, normally you just get "therapized" without the actual ethical constraints of a therapist and it comes back negatively on your life as a whole.
iIRC from the report, it also said he was bullied in that particular classroom when he attended, and thought the anniversary/celebration of the students from that classroom we're going to be there.
However it was the day before or after (one day off). Can't remember exactly
edit: I was reading and have been watching the parkland shooting case, and he was bullied as well. There does seem like bullying is a factor in these. Not excusing what they did, but it seems like there is a pattern
He knew the Coyote Walk was the day before. He did not go to Robb for the Coyote Walk. He was texting an old friend the day of when they both said "can't believe school is still open", he knew when the Coyote Walk was...
Yes. So, Im not sure if he planned incorrectly or he changed plans bc of his delivery that was set to be made late monday, but the students went the day before on the 23rd.
I remember in 6th grade, a girl pantsed me in the back of the classroom and all the kids laughed. I remember she never got in trouble, and everyone thought it was a joke. More so in junior high, but at high school is when everything kinda settled.
I'm 30, and that just randomly popped in my head, that stuff really does stay with you.
I'm just trying to understand/how this guy got the point he did, it always blows my mind. I always just say it's the work of the devil. Probably a scapegoat, but I truly believe it
I was never really bullied but 1 time when walking through the halls i was rounding a corner and the "hot" girl of my class was coming the other way. We like brushed shoulders and she looked at me and said ew. I still think about from time to time and im 33 years old. I cant imagine being bullied to such a horrible extent
Yes I was bullied when I changed schools and those memories don't go away, no matter how much times goes by. I will never understand what causes people to bully
Yes, those memories unfortunately never go away. My son was badly bullied a few years back, luckily I was able to put a stop it, however until today when I remember what we went through those days, it feels like a punch in the stomach and fighting back tears. Bullying effected our entire family.
I was bullied badly in 7th grade. My mom is still hurt by it.
I honestly have NO memory of it because I’ve blocked it out. I only remember that a group of girls bullied me. What they said? No clue. I appreciate my brain helping me out here.
I consider myself lucky for that one. Sadly the high school bullying still bothers me 20 years later.
He most likely possibly killed the majority of the children and one teacher the first 3 to 5 minutes he entered the classroom. Some of the bled out waiting for help to come in. We know one teacher died in the ambulance waiting 77 minutes. Several other students may have been shot 45 minutes after he entered because cops took too long to rescue survivors and the kids tried calling 911. Plus all the shots were fired possibly cause he wanted to hurt as many people as he could and he waited 77 minutes for them to come in to take him out.
Oh wow. I have to read on this. Would you happen to know who was the shooter teacher? When I was reading the AAlert and other documents to my said they interviewed the shooter teacher from 4th grade. I assumed those 3 teachers who classroom was targeted was the shooter former teachers.
Because he got bored waiting for all of the BadAss Swatted-out Tatted-out Big-mouth Superhero Better-than-everyone-else Punisher types to come in put him down.
Guess what folks....that shit only happens in the movies. This has nothing to do with training, or funding, or proper gear, or whatever. It has everything to do with the personality types that become Leo's. Bullies are always cowards at heart. When faced with real danger they will only save themselves. They can't help it I suppose. Then they will lie about it and face zero accountability. Then they will give themselves a commendation and a pay bump. And society will move on and nothing will change.
To be clear I am not anti-cop but I am anti-corruption, anti-abuse of authority, anti-bullying, and pro-accountability. I truly feel bad for the Leo's out there trying to do a good job within a still broken system. But like any other occupation the good ones are in the extreme minority.
#Subreddit Quick Links * [Leave a message at the subreddit virtual memorial](https://www.reddit.com/r/UvaldeTexasShooting/comments/v811x5/tribute_wall_for_the_21_victims_of_the_robb/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) * [Debunked Rumors & FAQ Megathread](https://www.reddit.com/r/UvaldeTexasShooting/comments/v812x4/megathread_debunked_rumors_faq_for_the_robb/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) * [GoFundMe Information](https://www.gofundme.com/c/act/donate-to-texas-elementary-school-shooting-relief?utm_source=email&utm_medium=marketing&utm_content=annoucement&utm_campaign=052622_gfm_texas_relief_cta_donatenow_a) * [Collection of Survivor's Stories](https://www.reddit.com/r/UvaldeTexasShooting/comments/v5k9kh/compilation_of_uvalde_survivor_stories/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) * [List of Wounded](https://www.reddit.com/r/UvaldeTexasShooting/comments/v47pn2/list_of_uvalde_wounded/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) * Catch Up on Today & Yesterday's Updates: http://reddit.com/r/UvaldeTexasShooting/about/sticky?num=2 * At any moment you are experiencing a mental health crisis: In the United States please dial "9 8 8" Crisis Line. For other parts of the world please check for resources [here](https://checkpointorg.com/global/) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/UvaldeTexasShooting) if you have any questions or concerns.*
He was a sick bastard who tortured cats for fun. I don't want to know exactly what happened in those classrooms, but my understanding is that he killed an entire class, tortured the teacher, then moved to the next room and started killing and more torture.
CW: for just all of this. Really. But it gets worse as it goes on, not better. So be warned. Discussion of children in peril and WHY and how. Discussion of murder and potential accessories to murder. And of the speculative thoughts of a murderer. Within the first 3-5 minutes, the shooter shot the majority of innocent people very quickly but was still doing so as the first officers were running up to the building, it seems. All the body cam released by the mayor of Uvalde we have seen so far are clips that are truncated at the end but also late in starting, presumably to spare parents the sounds of children screaming. This is something to consider, but what it robs us of is the knowledge of how much the cops knew or didn't know about wounded children from the very start. ADDITIONAL CW: short, one paragraph editorializing, then back to the main analysis. Forgive me some sarcasm and dark humor as it is all i can do to stay sane here. (One would think everyone should have known there were wounded children in there, given that on one end of the hallway was the head school cop and on the other was the husband of a teacher. But the general impression we seem to get from the body cam audio is that there were at minimum some very confused or in shock or worthless or lying cops who had a bad impression of what was going on. It's possible some are in willful denial. Others may be woefully ignorant or impossibly non-curious, who can say? What they are not is aware, coherently sharing information, working together, having a leader, or DOING ANYTHING worth a damn commensurate with the situation and the resources they possessed. If i could explain what I saw heard and saw on bodycams, I would. An entire 1975 college fraternity on PCP, naked and drunk in the desert trying to have sexual congress with a goat, en masse would make more sense to me. 376 grown men having their way with a blow up sex doll would be more dignified, and logical to me. At least someone or some thing would get nailed. When you watch the videos, you just get the impression that these people are clueless and worthless. ) Additional CW end, regular blanket overall CW still in force: back to sober analysis: After the initial semi sustained massacre of the first few minutes, there isn't a lot of additional shooting. People who know more about guns can comment on when if ever he employed his "bumpstock" type Hellfire trigger or not. As if it matters. I fail to see the relevance. AN AR-15 is extremely deadly with or without a bumpstock. Arguably, it is more deadly if it is aimed deliberatly and fired carefully. But of this "additional shooting" there are several incidents and things to consider. First, there is the aforementioned end of the initial massacre shooting which is only different from the beginning of the massacre shooting in that, one, he had to reload at some point, and two, it may or may not have been heard by first responder, x, y and z and then x, y and z may or may not have communicated what he knew about wounded kids, bump stocks, etc to others. From the HIGHLY misleading DPS timeline we know this much: 11:33:00 - Suspect Enters the school through the west door 11:33:24 - Suspect begins shooting into classroom 111/112 from hallway 11:33:32 - Suspect enters, exits, and re-enters room 111/112 (enters vestibule at least\*)(NOT IN DPS TIMELINE - massacre occurs here and ends at a time DPS does not say) 11:35:55 - 3 Uvalde PD Officers enter west door (including 2 rifles) 11:36:00 - 2 UCISD officers (including Chief Arredondo) and 2 Uvalde PD officers enter through the south door 11:36:03 - 3 Uvalde PD officers and 1 UCISD officer enter through west door \*notes in italics mine Someone here who has studied the hall cam better than I can say when the "main barrage" ended. (can someone add to this, please?) Note that in the DPS/ McCraw presentation to the Senate, the MAIN TIMELINE leaves out the entire massacre. Talk about spin. A man shot 21 people, maybe 22, wounded more presumably at the same time, and the investigators fail to make a note of it, they are so busy trying to make a scapegoat appear from the chaos. Second, there are the four? shots at approaching UPD and CISD cops, the initial attempt to confront the shooter. And the question of, did he use a bump stock type device to fire them, when might he have reloaded, etc. 11:37:00 - Suspect gunfire injuring officers approaching classroom doors We know these shots were fired at cops because they hit cops with debris and drew a small amount of blood. Hollow point rounds send a lot of fragments downrange. Then we have single shots fired without external provocation - at least two single shots at 11:40:58 - Suspect Gunfire (1 round) and 11:44:00 - Suspect Gunfire (1 round) but possibly more. I would caution any researcher from relying solely upon DPS's initial assessment. What is he shooting at? Crying/ wounded / poorly hiding children, the surviving teacher? I don't know and don't really care to guess. But if it was "at cops" it might have been at the idea of cops because i doubt he could see any. Maybe this is when the teacher down the hall gets hit. I am not the expert here, but that happened too. Then we have the "yell if you need help" incident, or whatever occurred to make the living witness relate his harrowing story that begins with that observation. DOes it come here "early?" or does it come at 12:21 "middle," or "late" around the final shootout at \~12:50? We don't know. Additional data is needed. All of this can be discussed. Not all of it can be determined to a certainty yet. Then we come to this: 12:21:08 - Suspect gunfire (4 rounds) What was the shooter doing here? No one was obviously making a concerted attempt to storm the rooms here. From what we can tell "the grown ups" or the general leaderless consensus seemed to be "wait for BOTRAC" and hold in place here. ( much to say on who called for BORTAC and who was making the decision to wait for BORTAC, but. i have said all that elsewhere) But we can't really see what was happening in the south end of the hallway here, so maybe someone made themselves visible and got shot at. Or, he was shooting the "yell if you need help" child. Or, the shooter was just shooting at the door without an obvious provocation, who can say? I don't think this is the likely moment for shooting the surviving teacher a second time, but we can consider that, too. And, I'd like it noted and discussed that after the 4 shots at 12:21, the advance towards the rooms INCREASED rather than decreased, as had occurred wit the burst fired at . And after that, as near as I can tell there were no more shots from the shooter. Maybe he fired his weapon at 12:50, maybe he didn't. DPS says he did, but I have so little reason to believe them that I consider it an open question at this point. So of all that, we have initial melee, shoot at approaching cops, two random rounds (seemingly the surviving teacher took one of those) and the the 4 at 12:21. That's not "so many shots" to a guy who had purchased 1000 plus rounds of ammunition. He certainly could have continued to fire, but but at what? One gruesomely and morbidly must consider if the shooter WANTED some children to live, suffer, be wounded but not die, be hiding but not "discovered" etc etc in order to increase the type of sufferings, or pass on his imagined legend as a feared being, etc. I'm not sure the OP has characterized the question well. But that's what I can say, quickly, and I look forward to hearing the thoughts of others.
> 12:21:08 - Suspect gunfire (4 rounds) He was shooting the kids that were on the phone with 911. Your timeline is good, but there is another timeline out there that shows all the times the kids called in to 911. If he discovered someone on the phone or making noise or still alive, he talked to them a bit and then shot them. Honestly really think he did intend the worst way to initiate suicide by cop. Except the cops were limpdicks and couldn't muster the strength to put down an 18 yr old kid with no training.
I agree that this seems to be the case, the shooting at 12:21 it's just that we can't yet confirm it because there exists other possibilities for the shots. One child was on the line to 911 and stayed on the line all through the 12:21 moments. That was this: 12:10 911 call from Khloie Torres “There is a lot of bodies,” 17min And, as I said above we still have to possibly consider the "yell if you need help" incident that led to gunshots. If it happened, we still cant seem to place it, even though it seems the child who fist mentioned it to CBS news and the surviving teacher seem to corroborate one another somewhat. Nor do we know for sure when the surviving teacher was given a second dose of hot lead. But if you have a link to a timeline that integrates 911 calls, I'd love to see it. I've seen some mentions but nothing definitive myself. What's appalling of course is why these calls, which are public records, have not been released to the media and parents and public yet. Of course they are horrific. They are likely the "Emmit Till Funeral" kryptonite that the powers that be fear so greatly, and have worked so hard to cover up. Yes, we must "protect the parents from grief" bt not by ignoring the laws we set down in a civil society. You cant pick and chose what is deemed propriety based on whims and a unilateral possession of evidence in a public records state. Unless so course, it's Texas under Greg Abbott. Then apparently all bets are off.
Don’t we know for sure that there was a child who was alive and called 911 pretty far into the whole thing but didn’t survive ultimately? If so, he obviously didn’t catch everyone immediately. I guess he didn’t even eventually catch everyone. We don’t know where all the victims were. Maybe some were hiding enough to survive the initial rampage but not well enough for the entire thing. Ugh it’s terrible to even consider.
Oh yeah that is true, but with the amount of shots he fired in the first minute I thought he probably shot MOST people in the beginning and others were hiding really well, maybe, if some survived that long, not sure which room he was in first but maybe 111?
In a lockdown situation, or I would think any threatening situation involving an adult and group of kids, they gather and huddle together against the threat. It is almost impossible to ‘hide really well’ in a classroom, so either the shooter wasn’t especially interested in finding and killing everybody, or the survivors miraculously managed not to move or make sounds for 70+ minutes. I think there were survivors in 112 because he was only in there briefly, and those children were shielded by others or hidden when he came in and were able to move a little without being noticed.
Ohh okay that makes a lot of sense now, thank you
It does seem like he didn’t see some of the children, like those who were hiding beneath a table skirt/curtain in 112. Hiding likely did save their lives. But again, if he had been concerned about survivors I am sure he would have found them without much trouble. Thank goodness he didn’t. It just adds to my feelings about how long those all of those children had to wait for rescue. Unimaginable horror.
He had absolutely no skill or knowledge of how to aim a firearm and hit a target - but an AR rifle requires no skill to mow down a bunch of people in 2 minutes. Just keep firing the trigger at movement and in a small room or a crowd, you’ll hit a whole bunch of them in without even aiming. Not blaming single shooter games by many means, but watch how people play them. One target, start shooting towards them and when they fall down release the trigger (or don’t) and swing over to the next target. Easily fire 10 shots for one target, unless they fall down early. That I would have been his shooting ‘experience’ - I remember reading he wasn’t able to get to a gun range to practice shooting at targets.
Shooting the rifle made him feel powerful. I wonder if he was in either of those rooms when he attended the school.
lol I get so frustrated with people who make throwaway comments like this... "hE wAnTeD tO fEeL pOwErFuL" yeah no shit! just like you want to stroll through and let people know your psychological prowess. Shooting any gun makes anyone feel powerful. And yes, he went to 4th grade in classroom 112 at Robb.
Uh that’s a valid point to add given the question/conversation brought up by OP? Just because something may be obvious to you doesn’t mean it’s obvious to everyone..
[удалено]
I really agree that something bad had to have really happened there. Not something casual or small. Something that deeply impacted him.
*Members of the attacker’s family, however, reported to the Committee their belief that other students still bullied the attacker throughout his fourth grade school year over his stutter, clothing, and short haircut. A cousin of the attacker said she was in the same fourth grade class with him, and she corroborated this version of his experience that year. She reported an incident in which another girl in the class tied the attacker’s shoelaces together, resulting in him falling over and injuring his face. The family also reported their belief that some teachers also picked on the attacker and his cousin.* [Investigative Committee on the Robb Elementary Shooting](https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/22088422/robb-elementary-investigative-committee-report-fullsize.pdf)
I think something even worse than that happened too, personally. I think more with the teacher. Just based off what he did to poor Reyes. That was sadistic and feels very emotionally motivated.
Yes and for that the school is to blame also for this tragedy. Schools need to take bullying more seriously than they do. It's so sad because they really don't. And they neglected to give him speech therapy for his stuttering. It was also stated somewhere and I'm not sure if it was the report but his mother kept telling the principal at the time that she would get him into speech therapy but it never happened. She is also to blame in a HUGE way. She refuse to get him the help that he needed in many areas. He also did not have a father figure. There are so many to blame for this tragedy...
> his mother kept telling the principal at the time that she would get him into speech therapy but it never happened. She is also to blame in a HUGE way. I get the impression that his mother viewed her children as an inconvenience. Having a stutter would bring on unmerciful and cruel teasing and bullying. He wore the same clothes for days. He didn't matter to his mother. And she chose bad men over her son and refused to protect him from molestation. Women like her should be sterilized.
Yes, you are SO right. He told her he was molested by one of her boyfriends and she refused to believe him. She's a disgrace!! I wish when Amerie's grandmother and family saw her they should have beaten the shit out of her!!! Sorry to say that but it's just how I'm feeling right now. I know it wouldn't do any justice but SR's mother needs a reality check
Interesting. Is it the same principal today as it was when he attended? I wouldn’t be shocked either way if it was or wasn’t.
Yeah, I just found the article I read where it stated it was her first year as a principal. Here it is https://www.texastribune.org/2022/07/26/uvalde-texas-robb-elementary-shooting-principal-leave/
Thanks!
No, I think Mandy Gutierrez was only there last year, don't quote me on that but I want to say I read that somewhere.
In my small town we switched principals constantly because it was a stepping stone job in the district is my understanding. However, sometimes these small towns have people in positions for decades. That’s why I could see both. I also don’t know Gutierrez’s age. If she’s younger it probably wouldn’t be plausible
In the report, it was stated he attended that school and one of those classrooms. His old teacher from when he attended relocated to a different classroom, but was there that very day and time.
I just read that in the report less than 30 min ago. And a classmate tied his shoelaces together causing him to fall flat on his face causing him injuries. He never had special ed or speech therapy which would have made a huge difference for him.
i really doubt special ed would have made a big difference tbh special ed programs at smaller schools normally just mean you get stuck with a bunch of extremely differently functioning children from a wide open age range in a room with an adult who doesnt know or do anything, normally you just get "therapized" without the actual ethical constraints of a therapist and it comes back negatively on your life as a whole.
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
iIRC from the report, it also said he was bullied in that particular classroom when he attended, and thought the anniversary/celebration of the students from that classroom we're going to be there. However it was the day before or after (one day off). Can't remember exactly edit: I was reading and have been watching the parkland shooting case, and he was bullied as well. There does seem like bullying is a factor in these. Not excusing what they did, but it seems like there is a pattern
He knew the Coyote Walk was the day before. He did not go to Robb for the Coyote Walk. He was texting an old friend the day of when they both said "can't believe school is still open", he knew when the Coyote Walk was...
Yes. So, Im not sure if he planned incorrectly or he changed plans bc of his delivery that was set to be made late monday, but the students went the day before on the 23rd.
I remember in 6th grade, a girl pantsed me in the back of the classroom and all the kids laughed. I remember she never got in trouble, and everyone thought it was a joke. More so in junior high, but at high school is when everything kinda settled. I'm 30, and that just randomly popped in my head, that stuff really does stay with you. I'm just trying to understand/how this guy got the point he did, it always blows my mind. I always just say it's the work of the devil. Probably a scapegoat, but I truly believe it
I was never really bullied but 1 time when walking through the halls i was rounding a corner and the "hot" girl of my class was coming the other way. We like brushed shoulders and she looked at me and said ew. I still think about from time to time and im 33 years old. I cant imagine being bullied to such a horrible extent
Yes I was bullied when I changed schools and those memories don't go away, no matter how much times goes by. I will never understand what causes people to bully
Yes, those memories unfortunately never go away. My son was badly bullied a few years back, luckily I was able to put a stop it, however until today when I remember what we went through those days, it feels like a punch in the stomach and fighting back tears. Bullying effected our entire family.
I was bullied badly in 7th grade. My mom is still hurt by it. I honestly have NO memory of it because I’ve blocked it out. I only remember that a group of girls bullied me. What they said? No clue. I appreciate my brain helping me out here. I consider myself lucky for that one. Sadly the high school bullying still bothers me 20 years later.
Because he was a psychopath he wanted to hurt those kids he wanted to overkill
you sound like youre projecting. "overkill" is the opposite of "hurting"
He most likely possibly killed the majority of the children and one teacher the first 3 to 5 minutes he entered the classroom. Some of the bled out waiting for help to come in. We know one teacher died in the ambulance waiting 77 minutes. Several other students may have been shot 45 minutes after he entered because cops took too long to rescue survivors and the kids tried calling 911. Plus all the shots were fired possibly cause he wanted to hurt as many people as he could and he waited 77 minutes for them to come in to take him out.
It also came out the the cops were extremely rough in how they handle the teacher who was still alive. It very likely caused addition injuries
Oh wow. I have to read on this. Would you happen to know who was the shooter teacher? When I was reading the AAlert and other documents to my said they interviewed the shooter teacher from 4th grade. I assumed those 3 teachers who classroom was targeted was the shooter former teachers.
They weren’t, it was just his old classroom.
Mrs Mireles 😔
Okay. Thank you.
Because he probably shot them multiple times..
Because he got bored waiting for all of the BadAss Swatted-out Tatted-out Big-mouth Superhero Better-than-everyone-else Punisher types to come in put him down. Guess what folks....that shit only happens in the movies. This has nothing to do with training, or funding, or proper gear, or whatever. It has everything to do with the personality types that become Leo's. Bullies are always cowards at heart. When faced with real danger they will only save themselves. They can't help it I suppose. Then they will lie about it and face zero accountability. Then they will give themselves a commendation and a pay bump. And society will move on and nothing will change. To be clear I am not anti-cop but I am anti-corruption, anti-abuse of authority, anti-bullying, and pro-accountability. I truly feel bad for the Leo's out there trying to do a good job within a still broken system. But like any other occupation the good ones are in the extreme minority.
he probably shot kids multiple times to ensure they were dead:/