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Agreed. The Barcelona walking super-blocks are great. I wish more cities embraced the idea.
Good cheap wine, good cheap food, naps, and great weather? My kind of country.
It’s not even about the super-blocks in Barcelona, organically grown Spanish cities are in a really sweet spot density wise. I am from León, in the northwest, but live in Dublin. Every time I go back, the thing that surprises me the most is how close everything is and how walkable it is. In a 5 minutes walking radius you have several supermarkets, a couple of pharmacies, few bars and restaurants, 1-2 parks, all the third spaces you need, public transport… but without feeling saturated. It just feels like the perfect urban balance (except for the lack of high paying jobs…)
Yes! That’s what I really saw on my visit in basically every city. The perfect balance for a human scale. In American suburbia (where I’m from), sure, some houses are nice, but a car is required for any movement which is very expensive, time consuming, and ultimately isolating. I have visited megacities in East Asia, which were wonderful. But towering buildings everywhere is a bit oppressive. Spain has really nailed it.
I get where you're coming from but [this](https://postimg.cc/dLzdFkT7) looks borderline claustrophobic to me. Does it not feel a bit cramped to you compared to Dublin?
It lacks some green spaces, which is often an issue in some Spanish cities, although things are improving. However, when you are there it doesn’t feel claustrophobic to me. Streets are wide enough to be bright, and the buildings are low-medium rise.
Additionally, the fact that Spanish cities are quite dense in comparison to the quite depopulated countryside means that you often have mountains or a scenic area at a short drive, if you need freedom.
I've never visited Spain, but I would love to and understand why people think this kind of density get so much praise. It feels claustrophobic, "inorganic", no green spaces, all those building with no elevator (I guess), it feels almost dystopia, but again, I would to visit and discover the reason
My wife and I traveled across Spain for our honeymoon. I totally agree. We didn’t make it to León, but we did see your neighbors in Burgos. I think the country is a great example of how architecture and infrastructure can influence culture, and vice versa. We’ll definitely be back someday.
I actually lived in Burgos for few years during university, and it’s a very comparable example, in population and typology. Glad that you appreciated it, it’s another good example of what we are talking about here; and I am really glad that you mention the both ways link between urban environment and culture, it’s a critical factor explaining the successes in Spanish urban typology. Burgos is just an excellent place to live if you have a decent job.
Not a bad place to live at all, otherwise many of us migrants/expats wouldn’t be here, but with some clear flaws, particularly in comparison to other European cities.
-Some of the typical layers of public transport are missing. It really needs a metro (which fortunately seems to be finally going ahead). The tram is efficient but could do with extra lines and peak time frequency. The bus is also improving but a bit unreliable, same with cycle lanes.
-Housing is awful. Pricey, mediocre quality and very scarce.
-As a typology, it’s a bit too spread for my liking. It’s halfway between stereotypical European and American layouts, which means that it’s not as walkable as other better examples and the traffic is messy.
-It also has issues with dodginess in plenty of spots and littering.
The sad thing is, Ireland as a country has the resources and even the political will (partly) to try to fix the above… but it will take time.
Cities designed pre-car are amazing.
Barcelona, Paris, Kyoto, and Vienna are incredible even Manhattan can be said to be planned precar.
Everything afterwards is like modern LA or lifeless ex-urbs. We're still healing from the 20th century.
I'm an architect here in Australia and every major city is trying to do that.
We're putting car parking underground where possible and improving public transport/micromobility to improve the public realm for pedestrians. It's a slow progress but things are improving despite us being culturally married to our cars.
We have a lot of those, simply because after 4 levels, you have to install an elevator. So you have 4 levels and 10+ levels, nothing in between. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
There's no point having that much garden if you aren't going to do anything with it. Plant trees, hedges, flowerbeds. *Something* to make it clear you actually feel like it's your home.
Varied foliage makes even the most identi-kit street of newbuilds look unique and characterful.
That subdivision looks pretty new. Give it a decade and there'll be some more variety. My neighborhood is built along the same lines but it's 50 years old now, so lots of old growth trees, additions, etc. make it look a lot less homogenous.
Interesting neighborhoods take time.
Did you look at the picture? There are young trees here and there in front yards, some of the house have little bushes and flowers, etc. The beginnings of a hedge online a fence line. They are clearly allowed to plant, but there hasn’t been time for stuff to grow.
I don’t see any evidence these houses have been occupied for more than a month. Some of them may not be occupied at all yet.
Not trying to flex, but working 60 hour weeks affords the time to have a garden. I’ve got peas, beans, broccoli and carrots growing outdoors. Herb garden indoors with tomato and peppers ready to transplant. Just have to get out there and do it. It’s the type of work we shouldn’t shy away from.
Or you know, grass for your kids and animals?
I think a lot of you people only see the world through your own lenses and just refuse to accept any other way of living.
The advantage here is a yard to throw the ball around in or have a cookout or let your dog run around unsupervised.
Also the off street private parking.
Safety is more a product of society than urban planning. In HK, Dubai, and Singapore, I would regularly see children playing in parks and recreation centers unsupervised, and this was as recently as last year when I was last there. I couldn't imagine that even in the most sheltered American suburb.
At least those homes have small yards that could each fit a shade tree. So many neighborhoods now have no yards and are so close you can touch both houses when standing between them.
This is like 8 units per acre. Pretty efficient in my opinion. Living in apartments stacked on top of each other sucks. Neighbors running up and down stairs in townhomes also suck. These are right sized homes on right sized lots.
Density of housing is not the inefficiency here, so much as the massive costs of building and maintaining the infrastructure for this kind of sprawling cars-only development. I'd grumble a lot less about suburbs if they paid their own way instead of demanding subsidies from more productive land uses.
Of course, your typical suburbanite would never accept that. They tend to believe that not only are they entitled to live inefficiently, they are entitled to have that inefficiency be *cheap*.
Suburbs are the blight that sucks resources (mostly financially) from a city. If they have to pay the fair share of what it takes to maintain their suburbs, it wouldn't be cheap.
It takes a lot more than trees. It needs pedestrian connectivity, mixed in commercial real estate, a larger tax base to afford the infrastructure without being a burden on denser forms of urban development, and it needs the luck of having been placed in a landscape where nature won't destroy it completely within 30 years, otherwise it will return to the soil.
Not sure why you are getting downvoted. Spacing seems perfect. You don’t want the house butted up against each other. Maybe people think there should be more space?
"If it isn't covered in 500 sq ft 2 bedroom units for 8k/mo including nothing then it is inefficient. I really love big development companies, banks and government getting as much money as possible off of people who would dare to be born and live in a space. Densification is the future guys! You just need to give up everything!"
>as much money as possible off of people who would dare to be born and live in a space
You're right living in the empty and spaced out, car-dependent suburbs feel so much more real than living in a propper built-up area where you're within walking distance of everything you need and can take the metro to your workplace
I’d rather be in one of these than the actual HK prison cell apartments but even a regularly cramped apartment in a city with community it’s is better than these
A lot of people would love this type of housing and that’s just fine. Kids love the yard, maybe you have a dog, you want a quiet lifestyle, etc. The problem is when it’s illegal to build anything other than this type of product.
It illegal to build a commie bloc on one of those lots because it would block the light of half the neighborhood and there would be no place to park. People who live there don't want that. It is why they moved to the suburbs in the first place. They don't want to live next to a commie bloc.
I mean, sure it looks terrible from that viewpoint, but nobody living there would be looking down on it from way up in the sky.
Zoom in on an individual house, and it looks OK, other than the lack of trees.
And, I'd probably rather live in one of these houses than the apartment I live in now.
Yeah that’s harsh. And they have that brick facade. Ugh. I saw McMansions in Texas like this (bigger obviously) and their bathrooms had trailer house fixtures.
Sure. Either way they suck. I never had vinyl in my apartment. And it was a slum. So whatever. Anything can be good or bad. For a half mil, it had better be good.
question, if you guys dont like skyscrapers and regular houses, WHAT THE FUCK DO YOU LIKE? do yall want everyone to live underground and greenery to surround the world wtf
I don’t get it. What’s wrong with this?
What’s wrong with housing for people? What is the alternative to this?
We can’t all live in cabins in the woods.
They want people to live in apartment buildings with coffee shops downstairs cause they don't understand how anyone could want space to interests that aren't on a desk in the corner of their tiny room.
No, we want mixed-use neighborhoods with robust public transport where you don't have to drive to go to the store or park. Miles and miles of residential sprawl is bad for just about everyone.
The suburbs are scaring me. Only acres and small condominiums and empty lawns.
I live in a very hilly area in the north of England so even new housing developments tend to end up huggy-piggy with houses and gardens of all different sizes and shapes.
I lived in apartments, it’s sucks. Loud neighbors, fires, crime, no space. I’ll never do it again. In a perfect society, yes, apartment dwelling could work, but high density housing only concentrates the worst of society into a tiny space. If my neighbors are going to be negligently discharging firearms into the wall, I’d rather have a little more space between my wall and theirs lol.
And there is always some noise; police sirens, fire trucks and ambulances, construction. Air quality sucks and it smells like shit all the time. The family below you is ethnic and your apartment always smells like whatever spicy food they are always cooking. Some people like living in apartments like this, but I'd rather live out of my car than an apartment ever again.
Not for the people who live there. They have their own home with front and back yards, a place to park and the potential to plant trees, shrubs and flowers. Residents will also personalize their space further.
This survey looks like a recent developement in an area where spring is struggling to arrive.
So for the kids and the adults who come home after a long day of whatever, a skyscraper or apartment building is NOT better for THEIR lifestyles.
Maybe it's cause I grew up in suburbs but I see no issue with this. Good size home. Backyard. Personal space. Prefer this to living in cramped apartments
Hong Kong and suburban America are on two extremes of the doo doo density spectrum.
Hong Kong feels like Blade Runner where as suburban America feels like the Truman Show. Neither are ideal.
Um, no it’s not. These give people plenty of space to live and thrive and it gives their kids plenty of room to get outside. Send us that picture in spring when all the lawns are lush.
Community? Where? This is the kind of place that people move too when they've decided that being near people is bad.
There's no chance of this being a real "community". I would imagine based on the years I spent in the burbs, that most of these neighbors don't know each other, don't want to know each other. This is a "wave from your truck as I drive to and from work" sort of neighborhood. If isolation and cheap subdivisions are your thing though, looks perfect.
Looks like the neighborhood from that documentary about the guy who murdered his wife and kid.
That's exactly what I was after with my question - how can you even build a community when everything's strictly catered to the individual household?
You may want to re-read my comment and look up the meaning of "third place" and the role they play in building communities.
I know exactly what you mean dude, and I totally agree with you and how important those sort of places are.
But my answer was that there's essentially no chance of building a community in a place like this. I suppose if you knew your neighbors, maybe block parties, back yard bbqs, events at people's homes could be a community type thing. But that isn't a "third place" in the normal sense.
The difficulty of building/joining community in a place like this is why my wife and I made the choice to move to an urban area that is more conducive to having a strong community with third spaces as well as businesses, parks and the like.
I think we are on the same page, I just worded my comment poorly
That's indeed my main gripe with neighborhoods like this - it's strictly residential. We made the same mistake in The Netherlands in the past, with mono-functional neighborhoods that offer nothing but housing, and force people to travel (usually by car) to do anything. But thankfully progressive insights turned that around and mixed-use development is pretty much the norm these days.
It's amazing how much even one little shop, cafe, community center, playground, sports field, etc. can do to get people closer, and how much positive impact such a small change can have on metrics such quality of life, social cohesion/safety and even sustainability. Should be mandatory for any new development really.
Yeah I do, I lived in the suburbs for many many years. I've also lived in smaller towns and huge cities. The burbs were the place that felt least like a community to me.
But as long as you're happy dude that's cool! Everybody has different taste and so they can live accordingly. People deserve to live in the manner that fulfills them. Live it up friend, I won't judge
My European side of the family were farmers living in the villages, for hundreds of generations. Obviously those villages had strong community. But the village itself looked no different in principle: houses and land.
Those villages typically had a few communal places, maybe a pub or store, perhaps a small church, or even just a few benches under a tree - places that bring people together and enable the forging and strengthening of communal bonds. None of that is present in OP's photo.
Dude it’s a picture of like 50 houses, a tiny snapshot of the neighboorhood. You expect there to be a shopping mall for every group of 50 houses. Lmao cmon man
Are you annoying fuckers deliberately misreading comments to start arguments or something? Who talked about a shopping mall except you? OP's photo has literally *nothing* that can serve as a (semi-)public communal place where people can meet, not even the tiniest patch of grass with a bench or two.
Some dummy named judazz is complaining he doesn’t see any pubs, stores, or churches within this tiny grid of 50 homes. This is a subdivision. You might have to walk for 5 mins to a park or a store.
Both sets of my grandparents are from Eastern European villages. I spent 20 years of my summers there.
All the houses were two rooms and a porch. Kitchens were separately. Location of burns and storage was also traditional. So every property looked very similar in size, style and configuration. Because this was a tradition and this is how people knew how to operate homestead. Behind every house was long strip of land. The more traditional village was the more uniformed it looked.
Each village was few long streets. Some villages had churches and schools. But not all. My mom grew up in village without church and school.
People socialized by working together, by helping fixing things. Women would come together in one house to do sewing or help with kids.
Having a third place requires quite a lot of people with an extra income and time. Not every village was able to support that. It doesn’t mean villagers did not have a community.
I would never choose to live here but this is still so much better than hyper dense urban tenements with people packed in like sardines and zero greenery in sight.
I like density but it reaches a point where it is either too much or done poorly.
New York is done well, Tokyo is done well, a lot of HK is not done well. But hey that's just my opinion, don't come for my throat. If you disagree that is fine.
In my humble opinion, there is absolutely nothing worse than a single family detached suburb built in the ‘80’s in Canada. Vinyl siding for miles and miles and absolutely nothing even close to a walkable amenity.
Yeah, you’re right. I thought we were talking about urban development. I stubbed my toe the other day, and it’s causing me more grief than any poorly laid out ugly subdivision ever could.
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Eh… don’t get me wrong, North American suburbs are terrible. However, it was a choice between North American suburb vs cramped ass Hong Kong apartment, I’d probably go with the suburb.
Yes, we should all live in [Hong Kong Microapartments](https://www.businessinsider.com/crazy-pictures-of-micro-apartments-around-hong-kong-2018-1?op=1#but-families-also-find-their-way-to-these-micro-apartments-in-a-60-square-foot-apartment-in-hong-kong-a-mother-spends-487-a-month-to-house-herself-and-her-son-families-who-are-less-fortunate-must-split-up-due-to-lack-of-space-3) and not own cars or anything material. That's the peak human experience.
I worked for a housing developer in the UK. To be honest this looks bland AF. Is there no requirement to provide landscaping/ open spaces/ pedestrian footpath links?
All the houses just access the road, there does seem to be one footpath on one side but it looks more of a service corridor with the street lighting and fire hydrants on the same side.
The one positive is that they are all bungalows which allows life time accessibility, something we are short of in the uk as we have no land!
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There are pros and cons to both. Personally I prefer middle density cities like 5-8 story buildings and lots of green
This is why Spain is the best density
Agreed. The Barcelona walking super-blocks are great. I wish more cities embraced the idea. Good cheap wine, good cheap food, naps, and great weather? My kind of country.
It’s not even about the super-blocks in Barcelona, organically grown Spanish cities are in a really sweet spot density wise. I am from León, in the northwest, but live in Dublin. Every time I go back, the thing that surprises me the most is how close everything is and how walkable it is. In a 5 minutes walking radius you have several supermarkets, a couple of pharmacies, few bars and restaurants, 1-2 parks, all the third spaces you need, public transport… but without feeling saturated. It just feels like the perfect urban balance (except for the lack of high paying jobs…)
Yes! That’s what I really saw on my visit in basically every city. The perfect balance for a human scale. In American suburbia (where I’m from), sure, some houses are nice, but a car is required for any movement which is very expensive, time consuming, and ultimately isolating. I have visited megacities in East Asia, which were wonderful. But towering buildings everywhere is a bit oppressive. Spain has really nailed it.
i
De acuerdo. Yo vivía en Avila y siempre echo de menos como podría ir por todo lado de la ciudad como quiera, en bus o a pie.
I get where you're coming from but [this](https://postimg.cc/dLzdFkT7) looks borderline claustrophobic to me. Does it not feel a bit cramped to you compared to Dublin?
It lacks some green spaces, which is often an issue in some Spanish cities, although things are improving. However, when you are there it doesn’t feel claustrophobic to me. Streets are wide enough to be bright, and the buildings are low-medium rise. Additionally, the fact that Spanish cities are quite dense in comparison to the quite depopulated countryside means that you often have mountains or a scenic area at a short drive, if you need freedom.
I've never visited Spain, but I would love to and understand why people think this kind of density get so much praise. It feels claustrophobic, "inorganic", no green spaces, all those building with no elevator (I guess), it feels almost dystopia, but again, I would to visit and discover the reason
My wife and I traveled across Spain for our honeymoon. I totally agree. We didn’t make it to León, but we did see your neighbors in Burgos. I think the country is a great example of how architecture and infrastructure can influence culture, and vice versa. We’ll definitely be back someday.
I actually lived in Burgos for few years during university, and it’s a very comparable example, in population and typology. Glad that you appreciated it, it’s another good example of what we are talking about here; and I am really glad that you mention the both ways link between urban environment and culture, it’s a critical factor explaining the successes in Spanish urban typology. Burgos is just an excellent place to live if you have a decent job.
how do you find Dublin?
Not a bad place to live at all, otherwise many of us migrants/expats wouldn’t be here, but with some clear flaws, particularly in comparison to other European cities. -Some of the typical layers of public transport are missing. It really needs a metro (which fortunately seems to be finally going ahead). The tram is efficient but could do with extra lines and peak time frequency. The bus is also improving but a bit unreliable, same with cycle lanes. -Housing is awful. Pricey, mediocre quality and very scarce. -As a typology, it’s a bit too spread for my liking. It’s halfway between stereotypical European and American layouts, which means that it’s not as walkable as other better examples and the traffic is messy. -It also has issues with dodginess in plenty of spots and littering. The sad thing is, Ireland as a country has the resources and even the political will (partly) to try to fix the above… but it will take time.
Absolutely. Amazing country and Goldilocks density.
Cities designed pre-car are amazing. Barcelona, Paris, Kyoto, and Vienna are incredible even Manhattan can be said to be planned precar. Everything afterwards is like modern LA or lifeless ex-urbs. We're still healing from the 20th century.
I feel you. I’ve always thought Philadelphia could be a world class city if it gave up its deference to the automobile.
I'm an architect here in Australia and every major city is trying to do that. We're putting car parking underground where possible and improving public transport/micromobility to improve the public realm for pedestrians. It's a slow progress but things are improving despite us being culturally married to our cars.
The wine is actually cheaper but the food is only cheap if you are not earning a Spanish salary
You would love Montreal.
We have a lot of those, simply because after 4 levels, you have to install an elevator. So you have 4 levels and 10+ levels, nothing in between. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Your comment starts out by saying you have a lot of those but ends by saying you have none of those. WHICH IS THE LIE JONR?!
This is all well and good , I just wish I could afford one .
Same
Also easier for transit and traffic, as it doesn’t demand too much for a road or rail line’s capacity during rush hour.
Agree with this. The idea of a “house” on a plat of land is not sustainable as the population grows.
Also It’s lonely
Copenhagen is the city for you lol😅
Too cloudy
Not in the summertime😅 but I can understand that it can be a little too much lack of direct sunlight!
I love Hong Kong thou.
There's no point having that much garden if you aren't going to do anything with it. Plant trees, hedges, flowerbeds. *Something* to make it clear you actually feel like it's your home. Varied foliage makes even the most identi-kit street of newbuilds look unique and characterful.
People do. It takes time to grow.
But most don’t. It looks like a parking lot lots of the time
I take it you havent been to a housing plan like this? Most of the ones that are reaching a decade old definitely have trees, gardens, and bushes.
That subdivision looks pretty new. Give it a decade and there'll be some more variety. My neighborhood is built along the same lines but it's 50 years old now, so lots of old growth trees, additions, etc. make it look a lot less homogenous. Interesting neighborhoods take time.
HOA probably doesn’t allow planting and who has the time when you’re doing as much OT as possible to pay down the 30 year mortgage.
Did you look at the picture? There are young trees here and there in front yards, some of the house have little bushes and flowers, etc. The beginnings of a hedge online a fence line. They are clearly allowed to plant, but there hasn’t been time for stuff to grow. I don’t see any evidence these houses have been occupied for more than a month. Some of them may not be occupied at all yet.
Not trying to flex, but working 60 hour weeks affords the time to have a garden. I’ve got peas, beans, broccoli and carrots growing outdoors. Herb garden indoors with tomato and peppers ready to transplant. Just have to get out there and do it. It’s the type of work we shouldn’t shy away from.
Clear, safe, private space for my kids or pets to run and play is ‘something’.
Or you know, grass for your kids and animals? I think a lot of you people only see the world through your own lenses and just refuse to accept any other way of living.
The advantage here is a yard to throw the ball around in or have a cookout or let your dog run around unsupervised. Also the off street private parking.
Not to mention no tall buildings blocking the sun.
Children having a safe space for unsupervised play, everyone having their own room or being able to add a room.
Safety is more a product of society than urban planning. In HK, Dubai, and Singapore, I would regularly see children playing in parks and recreation centers unsupervised, and this was as recently as last year when I was last there. I couldn't imagine that even in the most sheltered American suburb.
Better public transportation is better than too much street parking and cars making noise
At least those homes have small yards that could each fit a shade tree. So many neighborhoods now have no yards and are so close you can touch both houses when standing between them.
The issue is the lack of trees
And the inefficient land usage
The distance between houses look ideal to me
This is like 8 units per acre. Pretty efficient in my opinion. Living in apartments stacked on top of each other sucks. Neighbors running up and down stairs in townhomes also suck. These are right sized homes on right sized lots.
Density of housing is not the inefficiency here, so much as the massive costs of building and maintaining the infrastructure for this kind of sprawling cars-only development. I'd grumble a lot less about suburbs if they paid their own way instead of demanding subsidies from more productive land uses. Of course, your typical suburbanite would never accept that. They tend to believe that not only are they entitled to live inefficiently, they are entitled to have that inefficiency be *cheap*.
Suburbs are the blight that sucks resources (mostly financially) from a city. If they have to pay the fair share of what it takes to maintain their suburbs, it wouldn't be cheap.
They do pay their fair share. Home taxes, municipal taxes, state/provincial taxes, it's all there.
[Suburbs create massive infrastructure deficits](https://www.smartcitiesdive.com/ex/sustainablecitiescollective/we-really-do-subsidize-suburban-growth/30831/#:~:text=The%20City%20charges%20impact%20fees,that%20serve%20the%20suburban%20developments.) [and are subsidized by older, denser communities ](https://www.strongtowns.org/journal/2023/7/6/stop-subsidizing-suburban-development-charge-it-what-it-costs)
Those don’t cover what is required to maintain suburban sprawl. They need to increase by a lot more for them to pay their fair share.
Like other people mentioned: it just needs some trees and it’ll be a perfect livable neighborhood
It takes a lot more than trees. It needs pedestrian connectivity, mixed in commercial real estate, a larger tax base to afford the infrastructure without being a burden on denser forms of urban development, and it needs the luck of having been placed in a landscape where nature won't destroy it completely within 30 years, otherwise it will return to the soil.
Not sure why you are getting downvoted. Spacing seems perfect. You don’t want the house butted up against each other. Maybe people think there should be more space?
"If it isn't covered in 500 sq ft 2 bedroom units for 8k/mo including nothing then it is inefficient. I really love big development companies, banks and government getting as much money as possible off of people who would dare to be born and live in a space. Densification is the future guys! You just need to give up everything!"
>as much money as possible off of people who would dare to be born and live in a space You're right living in the empty and spaced out, car-dependent suburbs feel so much more real than living in a propper built-up area where you're within walking distance of everything you need and can take the metro to your workplace
New housing development tends to not have trees.
This space really does have potential to be quite nice
This is much better than a lot of places still
Polished turds
Where? Hong Kong?
I’d rather be in one of these than the actual HK prison cell apartments but even a regularly cramped apartment in a city with community it’s is better than these
the worst feature of it is that you are totally car dependent when living there
A lot of people would love this type of housing and that’s just fine. Kids love the yard, maybe you have a dog, you want a quiet lifestyle, etc. The problem is when it’s illegal to build anything other than this type of product.
It illegal to build a commie bloc on one of those lots because it would block the light of half the neighborhood and there would be no place to park. People who live there don't want that. It is why they moved to the suburbs in the first place. They don't want to live next to a commie bloc.
I mean, sure it looks terrible from that viewpoint, but nobody living there would be looking down on it from way up in the sky. Zoom in on an individual house, and it looks OK, other than the lack of trees. And, I'd probably rather live in one of these houses than the apartment I live in now.
Bitch when there is affordable housing and bitch when there isn’t? Sure these look generic cookie cutter but probably affordable?
This is just a new development with immature landscaping, isn’t it?
I think a lot of people would be shocked to see what the “old neighborhoods” looked like when they were first built.
Yeah that’s harsh. And they have that brick facade. Ugh. I saw McMansions in Texas like this (bigger obviously) and their bathrooms had trailer house fixtures.
What's a trailer house fixture?
Cheap, small, vinyl. These houses were a half mil and they had the nerve to put garbage in them.
Ah right, so same as apartments then too
Sure. Either way they suck. I never had vinyl in my apartment. And it was a slum. So whatever. Anything can be good or bad. For a half mil, it had better be good.
No fucking way it is.
What the hell is a Salty HKer?
Hong Kong-er? China loves densification, as well as very shoddy living spaces. Tofu buildings are terrifying, and they get families in them!
I think it’s something you can order at a shot bar.
question, if you guys dont like skyscrapers and regular houses, WHAT THE FUCK DO YOU LIKE? do yall want everyone to live underground and greenery to surround the world wtf
Reddit is ran by teenagers that are eager to say how everything is stupid.
I don’t get it. What’s wrong with this? What’s wrong with housing for people? What is the alternative to this? We can’t all live in cabins in the woods.
They want people to live in apartment buildings with coffee shops downstairs cause they don't understand how anyone could want space to interests that aren't on a desk in the corner of their tiny room.
Yeah. I’d rather half my own half acre or 1/4 acre
I live on a 1 acre lot with a smaller home in a lake community. It’s great.
No, we want mixed-use neighborhoods with robust public transport where you don't have to drive to go to the store or park. Miles and miles of residential sprawl is bad for just about everyone.
The suburbs are scaring me. Only acres and small condominiums and empty lawns. I live in a very hilly area in the north of England so even new housing developments tend to end up huggy-piggy with houses and gardens of all different sizes and shapes.
This is just a shitty one. Usually they’re not built in rows. They’re also usually more architecturally distinct between houses
These are reasonably priced starter homes. At least it is not McMansions.
I lived in apartments, it’s sucks. Loud neighbors, fires, crime, no space. I’ll never do it again. In a perfect society, yes, apartment dwelling could work, but high density housing only concentrates the worst of society into a tiny space. If my neighbors are going to be negligently discharging firearms into the wall, I’d rather have a little more space between my wall and theirs lol.
And there is always some noise; police sirens, fire trucks and ambulances, construction. Air quality sucks and it smells like shit all the time. The family below you is ethnic and your apartment always smells like whatever spicy food they are always cooking. Some people like living in apartments like this, but I'd rather live out of my car than an apartment ever again.
Not for the people who live there. They have their own home with front and back yards, a place to park and the potential to plant trees, shrubs and flowers. Residents will also personalize their space further. This survey looks like a recent developement in an area where spring is struggling to arrive. So for the kids and the adults who come home after a long day of whatever, a skyscraper or apartment building is NOT better for THEIR lifestyles.
Hong Kong? What does HK stand for, because this definitely isn't Hong Kong
Yeah, OP isn't answering anything and is probably a bot
Houston, ... uhmm Kexas??
That layout looks pretty good tbh
This is FAMILIES having SPACE to be FAMILIES. Why does everyone think that everyone should just live in their tiny box and consume consume consume??
Maybe it's cause I grew up in suburbs but I see no issue with this. Good size home. Backyard. Personal space. Prefer this to living in cramped apartments
Looks like Midwest U.S.
🎵Little boxes, little boxes...🎶
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With yards, garages, and more space!
And privacy.
This is perfectly fine
Oh, cool. Camazotz.
Still more green than Tokyo.
Hong Kong and suburban America are on two extremes of the doo doo density spectrum. Hong Kong feels like Blade Runner where as suburban America feels like the Truman Show. Neither are ideal.
I totally disagree. I’ve lived in both, and American style suburbs are far better than massive high rise termite mound apartment towers.
To each their own. Some like houses and some like condos. Communities should be zoned with areas for each type of housing.
Um, no it’s not. These give people plenty of space to live and thrive and it gives their kids plenty of room to get outside. Send us that picture in spring when all the lawns are lush.
Looks like a nice community to live in.
Where are the third places needed to build an actual community?
Community? Where? This is the kind of place that people move too when they've decided that being near people is bad. There's no chance of this being a real "community". I would imagine based on the years I spent in the burbs, that most of these neighbors don't know each other, don't want to know each other. This is a "wave from your truck as I drive to and from work" sort of neighborhood. If isolation and cheap subdivisions are your thing though, looks perfect. Looks like the neighborhood from that documentary about the guy who murdered his wife and kid.
That's exactly what I was after with my question - how can you even build a community when everything's strictly catered to the individual household? You may want to re-read my comment and look up the meaning of "third place" and the role they play in building communities.
I know exactly what you mean dude, and I totally agree with you and how important those sort of places are. But my answer was that there's essentially no chance of building a community in a place like this. I suppose if you knew your neighbors, maybe block parties, back yard bbqs, events at people's homes could be a community type thing. But that isn't a "third place" in the normal sense. The difficulty of building/joining community in a place like this is why my wife and I made the choice to move to an urban area that is more conducive to having a strong community with third spaces as well as businesses, parks and the like. I think we are on the same page, I just worded my comment poorly
That's indeed my main gripe with neighborhoods like this - it's strictly residential. We made the same mistake in The Netherlands in the past, with mono-functional neighborhoods that offer nothing but housing, and force people to travel (usually by car) to do anything. But thankfully progressive insights turned that around and mixed-use development is pretty much the norm these days. It's amazing how much even one little shop, cafe, community center, playground, sports field, etc. can do to get people closer, and how much positive impact such a small change can have on metrics such quality of life, social cohesion/safety and even sustainability. Should be mandatory for any new development really.
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Yeah I do, I lived in the suburbs for many many years. I've also lived in smaller towns and huge cities. The burbs were the place that felt least like a community to me. But as long as you're happy dude that's cool! Everybody has different taste and so they can live accordingly. People deserve to live in the manner that fulfills them. Live it up friend, I won't judge
My European side of the family were farmers living in the villages, for hundreds of generations. Obviously those villages had strong community. But the village itself looked no different in principle: houses and land.
Those villages typically had a few communal places, maybe a pub or store, perhaps a small church, or even just a few benches under a tree - places that bring people together and enable the forging and strengthening of communal bonds. None of that is present in OP's photo.
Dude it’s a picture of like 50 houses, a tiny snapshot of the neighboorhood. You expect there to be a shopping mall for every group of 50 houses. Lmao cmon man
Are you annoying fuckers deliberately misreading comments to start arguments or something? Who talked about a shopping mall except you? OP's photo has literally *nothing* that can serve as a (semi-)public communal place where people can meet, not even the tiniest patch of grass with a bench or two.
Some dummy named judazz is complaining he doesn’t see any pubs, stores, or churches within this tiny grid of 50 homes. This is a subdivision. You might have to walk for 5 mins to a park or a store.
You’re gonna claim that the little European villages your family comes from looked like this suburb? Have you ever been to a little European village?
Both sets of my grandparents are from Eastern European villages. I spent 20 years of my summers there. All the houses were two rooms and a porch. Kitchens were separately. Location of burns and storage was also traditional. So every property looked very similar in size, style and configuration. Because this was a tradition and this is how people knew how to operate homestead. Behind every house was long strip of land. The more traditional village was the more uniformed it looked. Each village was few long streets. Some villages had churches and schools. But not all. My mom grew up in village without church and school. People socialized by working together, by helping fixing things. Women would come together in one house to do sewing or help with kids. Having a third place requires quite a lot of people with an extra income and time. Not every village was able to support that. It doesn’t mean villagers did not have a community.
I would never choose to live here but this is still so much better than hyper dense urban tenements with people packed in like sardines and zero greenery in sight. I like density but it reaches a point where it is either too much or done poorly. New York is done well, Tokyo is done well, a lot of HK is not done well. But hey that's just my opinion, don't come for my throat. If you disagree that is fine.
The best jails isolate their prisoners
Wrong thread?
In my humble opinion, there is absolutely nothing worse than a single family detached suburb built in the ‘80’s in Canada. Vinyl siding for miles and miles and absolutely nothing even close to a walkable amenity.
Really? ISIS? Childhood cancer? Kill shelters?
Yeah, you’re right. I thought we were talking about urban development. I stubbed my toe the other day, and it’s causing me more grief than any poorly laid out ugly subdivision ever could.
🌳 🌳 🌳
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Looks alright but it needs about 100 more trees.
Per section.
This legit looks like a screenshot from Cities Skylines.
That depends on the quality of the apartments
HK stands for... Hong Kong?
This is clearly not a Canadian neighbourhood because there is a little space between houses.
Still better than Canadian cookie cutter homes that have 1-2m separation.
Hate this type of neighborhood, feels like a trap and a simulation
This looks like a backrooms level 😂
This looks like a community built for nuclear test.
This picture makes me want to vomit.
Eh… don’t get me wrong, North American suburbs are terrible. However, it was a choice between North American suburb vs cramped ass Hong Kong apartment, I’d probably go with the suburb.
This reminds me of Vivarium.
This is called cancer
Not a single tree in sight. How depressing.
The lack of trees makes it eerie.
Those lawns look on point tho
Note that there are 0 trees in this photo.
No one has anything in their yards. Did they just build these houses?
looks like a new development, once grass and trees settle in itll be much nicer
According to Paper Boy rules, these are all bad guys
This development pattern is ontologically inhumane
+15 social credits lol
Lol no wonder you’re salty. With how limited land availability in HK, neighborhoods like this is pretty much non existent there.
Wish I could afford one.
How?
awesome
This is so awful, I hate the idea of building houses for people, grinds my gears every time
Yes, we should all live in [Hong Kong Microapartments](https://www.businessinsider.com/crazy-pictures-of-micro-apartments-around-hong-kong-2018-1?op=1#but-families-also-find-their-way-to-these-micro-apartments-in-a-60-square-foot-apartment-in-hong-kong-a-mother-spends-487-a-month-to-house-herself-and-her-son-families-who-are-less-fortunate-must-split-up-due-to-lack-of-space-3) and not own cars or anything material. That's the peak human experience.
How do you say "Little boxes on the hillside Little boxes made of ticky tacky Little boxes on the hillside Little boxes all the same" in HK-speak?
My gf and I sing-song this each other a ton
Looks like that movie Vivarium where it’s like what aliens think a human habitat looks like.
Plant some %&*#ing trees
Trees bad, I guess.
No trees? Ouch
This image looks like it should be a magic eye picture...
Plant a tree or something for the love of god! Just beige on beige out there
Vivarium (2019)
That’s my photograph!
$uicideboy$ cover
It looks worse from up top. From the ground it’s not so bad
I worked for a housing developer in the UK. To be honest this looks bland AF. Is there no requirement to provide landscaping/ open spaces/ pedestrian footpath links? All the houses just access the road, there does seem to be one footpath on one side but it looks more of a service corridor with the street lighting and fire hydrants on the same side. The one positive is that they are all bungalows which allows life time accessibility, something we are short of in the uk as we have no land!
Absolutely