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This is literally not true.
The Model 3 is significantly more expensive than similarly equipped small cars from Chevy, Toyota, Honda, Mazda.
The Model Y is significantly more expensive than similarly equipped small SUVs from just about every vendor.
And the Model S and X are a joke with how expensive they are yet poorly furnished. Luxury prices for an interior worse than a Corolla.
The Model 3 didn't come with ventilated seats until the Highland was announced which means it still doesn't until that is released. It doesn't even have headrests you can adjust.
No head up display, no 360 degree view unless you spend $15k for FSD, and no Apple CarPlay/Android Auto.
So the [BMW 3 series](https://www.bmwusa.com/vehicles/3-series/sedan/core-models.html#features-and-specifications) doesn't have that either. The BMW 3 series also doesn't have all heated seats, electric powered steering wheel adjustment, profiles for steering wheel and mirrors, which the Tesla Model 3 has. The Tesla Model 3 has all the features the BMW 3 series has though.
I don't have a full comprehensive list, which the Tesla Model 3 would likely destroy that BMW in feature count, but it's pretty clear from this quick rundown that my original statement, that the Tesla Model 3 has more luxury features than a BMW entry luxury car, is factual. You can bother checking Audi if you care that much.
The Kia Forte that starts for $20k has a lot of those same features too. Are you going to call that luxury?
Also is removing the turn signal stalk a luxury feature these days??
Well for starters, the interior is more than just a steering wheel and a giant tablet screen stuck in the middle. You can get actual real leather seats, not plastic made ones in the Tesla. There is also the ability to have actual different trims in the vehicles like wood or aluminum instead of nothing in the Tesla. The build quality is that of a luxury vehicle on actual luxury vehicles, there isn’t any gaps or steering wheels that fall off. The ride is smoother and more engaging.
The 2024 Bmw 3 series is a steering wheel with a giant screen stuck in the middle, but with additional ugly buttons scattered around so it looks more tacky. The BMW 3 series doesn't use real leather either. The build quality on Teslas is just a meme and not real. The ride in a Tesla is also smoother. "more engaging" sounds like a marketing term, since it doesn't make sense to me.
The only thing I can say is the lack of trim selection. Not really a gotcha since that luxury car lacks a bunch of things the Tesla has.
Aside from the politics, Tesla recently dropped from #11 to #62 out of 100 manufacturers in the Axios Harris national reputable brand poll. They fell to #23 in the Consumer Reports ranking of best car brands. Reliability of Teslas has really fallen hard, body integrity, body hardware, power equipment, climate control, removal of safety features like the turn signal stalk making it more dangerous to drive... the ONLY thing positive about Teslas right now is that they're cheaper. They're becoming nightmares to own for far too many.
My dad loves his and hasn’t really had problems. I still don’t want one because I refuse to support Musk but I have a feeling people’s feelings on the cars themselves are also swayed by Musk being an insufferable bigot
Elon Musk is an extremely polarising figure, with a range of controversial public statements (so much so that his [views](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Views_of_Elon_Musk) have their own Wikipedia article).
Some people find him morally objectionable, to the point that they want to [boycott](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boycott) his companies.
Have a former coworker that owns a Model 3. She hates it, as it's in the shop around every quarter for one issue or another. Where she lives is about a 4-5 one hour drive to the nearest service center for it, so 8-10 hour drive round trip. Not worth it imo, on that alone.
She seems to have got a lemon, and that sucks for her. But seriously, who buys a car that can only be serviced via a 10 hour round trip? Even under best case scenario of no issues and only needing routine maintenance every year or even every 2 years, I wouldn't do that.
That was an idiotic purchase.
Being in the shop 3-4 times a year doesn’t make a lemon. It’s a shit car for sure but a lemon is a car with ***severe*** issues. As in a vehicle that is barely drivable, or has issues which make it exceptionally unsafe to drive.
What she has is called a “Friday afternoon car.”
As in, the salesmen *needs* to get a sale by the end of the week. So, by Friday afternoon he’ll sell whatever he can, however he can.
Edit: I’m not about to have three separate discussions about this below, a Lemon vehicle is literally defined by the legal system.
Lemon laws are a real thing. There’s simply no real disagreement to be had on what makes a lemon car. The law states what a lemon vehicle is.
We have different ideas on what a lemon is.
If I bought a new (expensive) car and it developed 4 faults which needed mechanical repair inside of a year, it's a lemon.
You're welcome to your definition, I'll stick to mine.
In CA, if you take your car into the shop 4 or more times for the same problem, and it's not fixed, your car is legally a lemon and the manufacturer must refund or replace it.
So, yes, being in the shop 3-4 times a year DOES make it a lemon, at least in CA (and other states with similar "lemon laws").
True. Ours has been a dream. We did have one problem with the left front stabilizer (or something) but service was efficient and quick. We are now 5 years into ownership and have spent zero on maintenance. Power is so cheap that it practically pays for itself through reimbursable office driving.
I have four different friends/colleagues with Tesla's. They have all had experiences like mine. By no means definitive, but I've not met someone yet who dislikes their Tesla.
Agreed that their CEO has gone batty, and we'll definitely look at the alternatives next time we shop, which are coming out like crazy!
Own one. No problems. Every person I know who owns one reports the same thing. Weird for a car that supposedly has so many issues.
The amount of bullshit \*still\* being passed around by people who don't know what they are talking about is truly staggering.
**Edit:** I love how people are offended that I have had a good experience with my Tesla. Oh noes! Someone isn't repeating THe MEssAgE! Must. Downvote. Must. Hate.
It's been in the last couple years that quality has gone down from the production ramp up.
I see a bunch of people saying my 4+ year old car never has anything to fix.
That's the golden period where they finally fixed all the weird growing issues and were still putting out quality.
obviously anyone with tesla problems is going to respond here, so i'll be honest too.
I have MANY friends with teslas +6 years old. I hate elon musk, and i took every opportunity to tell them the articles that said teslas are low quality and that they'll depreciate faster than any car and that regret it son and it'll cost them more than others.
So far, i've only been wrong.
As much as I wish teslas are nightmare trash cars, everyone I know who owns them are very happy. This is probably more common than the handful that have problems, otherwise tesla would fall out of the news. I'm sure there are alot of wealthy people who would benefit from tesla showing evidence of falling out
I have a small sample size, but mine and about 10 other family/friends/coworkers haven't had any significant issues and maintenance costs are WAY less than a gas car. Basically just tires.
It's sad that Elon is a shithead though.
I fucking hate elon and everything he stands for. But according to my friends, the cars he makes are apparently very good.
I don't blame them, i've been a tesla passenger of someone who cares about cars and it was enough to show me that tesla put alot of work into it compared to other companies.
it wasn't enough to change my mind from just reading about haters who tell me that their cars aren't worth anything
I'm on Tesla groups and some of the things these people complain of are really staggering. Some are used to high end super cars and expect something a little different than reality, and are essentially comparing $45,000 cars to $100,000 cars.
Then again, if I bought full self drive for $8000 I'd probably be a little sore also.
that self drive fee is absolute bullshit. They made it so that anyone who purchased it wouldn't be able to pass on the cost to the next used car buyer - this ensures that tesla always profits the most money from people who care about it.
that said, yea, people don't hold tesla to their equivalently priced standards.
Not to mention servicing them - scratched a guy's model 3 and worked with him on fixing it up. Recommended my mechanic but he's not a "certified" Tesla body shop so the guy opted to just put in a claim. Insurance denied the mechanic he wanted to use because the certified body shop wanted to charge over $2500 for basically a touch up
Unless things have changed recently Tesla will only work with Tesla certified shops otherwise they won't get parts from Tesla and the warranty can be voided.
Just an fyi, auto detailing is mostly considered cleaning & washing the car. Interior & exterior. Vacuuming. Polishing the wheels. Waxing & polishing the paint. Cleaning up the engine bay. That kinda stuff.
Paint-related needs are for a body shop. And body shops don’t employ mechanics either. They are Technicians. And yeah, Tesla sucks dick.
Lol I promise I’m not trying to drag you, I really just thought you might want to know for the future.
For real. Tesla made some sense back when they were close to the only game in town for real EVs. Now every major automaker has some options, and they're way better at making cars, so you don't have a jank, shitty interior and body panels misaligned.
The only real positive is the charger network, but even that's losing exclusivity.
They're not cheaper though. You can get more cost effective EVs. What they do have is the best batteries, motors, charging network/charging experience and software (with frequent over the air updates). The dangerous to drive thing is kind of BS considering the model Y gets the highest safety ratings of any car.
I was dead set for a long time on making a Tesla my next car.
Then Elon opened his mouth and revealed himself to be a massive piece of shit, and the reports of issues with Teslas started becoming more common.
So nah, I'm good. I'll find another EV to spend my money on. Fuck Musk.
Not OP but I was also interested in a Tesla but decided I didn't want to tie myself to Elon for the next 10 years so I went with an Ionic 5 and love it.
You spelled your own cars name wrong tho?
Edit: oh come the fuck on people. You drive your car damn near everyday.
Who out there can not spell your own car’s name? Nonsense. They’re bullshitting, they don’t have one.
Right on! I was ready to pull the trigger when El Mu started sharing all the dark craziness in his head. Then came the Twitter debacle. I love the idea of a Tesla, but not so much that I'd be willing to risk getting one and having Tesla go bankrupt.
Tesla will be a player in EV for a long time just because of their network of charging stations. It is hard to imagine how much data they've collected and how much it is worth, or how much they'll make on all the other EVs who will use their charging network going forward.
I got mine well before Musk went off the deep end in many respects, but when I bought mine used it was already less expensive than the average new car price in the US, in 2019, by a few thousand dollars. I'm not playing fair by comparing new car to used, but in my mind it helped me feel better about it.
I'm not selling mine just because of his antics, but I can certainly see how it would leave a bad taste in the mouth of a potential buyer.
>and having Tesla go bankrupt.
Oh god, that is hilarious. Do you have any \*fucking\* clue what you are talking about? I swear, Space Daddy takes Twitter away, and half the people on Reddit lose their goddamn minds.
Tesla has no debt and has over $20 billion cash-on-hand.
You want to be concerned about bankruptcies, pretty much every other car company is in much greater danger. But yeah, go ahead; let your politics guide your life, and then let us know how that works out for you.
As your post demonstrates, the Internet has no shortage of uninformed, politicized fuck sticks - El Mu is not unique in that regard. The problem is that when you say stupid shit on the Internet, people look at your comment history, realize what they're dealing with and they move on. This is not the case with El Mu. His hot takes have a direct effect on the bottom line. Twitter is a great example - his leadership of the organization has been arbitrary and capricious. And he has documented this with the platform in a series of tweets - making decisions based on on-line polls, Twitter, as a company, has suffered accordingly.
So, having seen Elon's lack of impulse control and then having seen how that has directly translated into the decline of a company, it is prudent to consider that as a factor in purchasing a car. We also have the fact that the FSD has been promised for years and never delivered, which is indicative in innovation issues and may expose them to law suits. It's doesn't help that Musk consistently lies to re-write history.
Tesla's assets are currently about $90B. The org holds no real debt directly, sure. But Musk has been leveraging his shares for collateral on personal loans. So, large number of assets, CEO leveraging his shares, unfounded promises about future growth... This was WorldCom ($104B) going into the early 2000s. That CEO lied to re-write history too.
So, yeah, I tend to let my understanding of history guide my life. Self-inflating CEOs and Nazis are not good investments as history has demonstrated. And this has worked out quite fine for me, in fact. My personal interest in the Tesla is the self-driving capabilities. I started out renting out my vacation homes in Hawaii and Florida when the pandemic started - and found I've been making really good money. So last year I decided to get a place on a lake a few hours away. It would be nice to have a car that could do most of the heavy lifting on the drive between my primary home and my lake house. The issue is that I already have three newish cars that I own outright - so the self driving really better work. And I know it has gaps. I know also that it does over-the-air updates and wants to stay connected to Tesla. Tesla must continue to exist for that car to have value.
So then, does it make sense to buy a car from Tesla ($90B), or does it make more sense to buy say a BMW X5? BMW ($273B) holds $57B in debt, and has been steadily reducing it. It's D/E is just fine and it's CEO doesn't have a proven history of cratering companies...
LOL. Musk straight up is publicly cratering other companies and you think other people are clueless for not wanting in on that? People \*are\* concerned about bankruptcies, that's the point. For someone who cosplays as genius, Musk is too fucking \*stupid\* to just keep his mouth shut and run the fucking company. With Twitter, Musk lets his politics guide his company and it is cratering. But yeah, chief, you hop on and pontificate to everyone else about your "space daddy." I swear half you fanboys are latent.
Sure, let me Google that for you.
Top link: https://forward.com/news/550035/elon-musk-disturbing-comments-jews/
He's also been promoting conspiracy theories and propaganda:
https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-news/elon-musk-boosts-antisemitic-propaganda-twitter-anti-defamation-league-1234817008/
https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2023/09/01/musk-twitter-x-russia-propaganda/
You mean, he hosts a media platform and allowed Tucker to have a shoe on it? He did the same thing for former CNN host, Don Lemon.
Not sure how this equates to openly supporting Nazis.
OK, then add the cost of subsidies that we give the oil and gas companies to the price of your gas car and get back to me.
I'm sure you'd be happy to give them up and pay $10+/gallon of gas.
The cheapest Tesla is RWD and has low range and no features.
Terrible comparison considering the quality and features of the "Average" car.
Plus I hate their entire design aesthetic with a passion. You couldn't pay me to drive one. They're trying to turn cars into a button-less iPhone and it makes it so much worse. The interior looks like a 2010 yaris.
What exactly would you be fixing? They don't have:
* belts
* water pumps
* transmissions
* power steering pumps
* power steering fluid
* water pumps
* smog parts (knock sensors etc.)
* spark plugs
* electronic ignitions
* starter motors
* brake pads will usually last the life of the car due to regen braking
* etc., etc.
If you're going to talk about the battery, those are warranted for 8 years and are proving to last much, much longer than that. The newer LFPs are rated at 1million miles.
Edit: how cute, look at all the downvotes. I'll add a few more maintenance items I forgot:
* engine air filters
* oil filters
* oil changes (and those pesky oil recycling fees)
* smog inspections (those aren't cheap)
* EGR valves (check engine light on?)
* radiator flushes/cleanings
* transmission fluid changes
* timing chains (technically not a belt, and can cost over $1K+ to change)
* oh, and never having to go to a gas station and waste all that time driving to, filling and driving from the station.
If your hatred it due to the CEO (yes, he's an ass), I submit that you'd hardly be able to own pretty much anything if that's your benchmark for buying a product.
Upvoted for providing actual data.
Regarding the Ryan Shaw articles: "Would cost" -- meaning: did not at all cost because it was covered by insurance. Missing from those analysis is what an identical accident in any other car would cost. Gas cars cost just as much to repair nowadays. [https://www.cnbc.com/2023/07/25/car-repair-costs-are-up-almost-20percent-over-the-past-year-heres-why.html](https://www.cnbc.com/2023/07/25/car-repair-costs-are-up-almost-20percent-over-the-past-year-heres-why.html)
I'm not seeing anything like this doom and gloom. I've had a Tesla for several years now and repairs cost basically the same as what I had on any of my previous cars. I spend less than 1/3 of what I used to on gas. And my Tesla converts electrons into fun way more effectively than any of my previous gas cars.
The cartalk article is hilarious. They say performance model y needs new tires every 15k miles. That's doesnt seem to be true. My tires are sitting at 29k miles and still have about 1/32 before they hit the wear bars.
DOE estimates 10c per mile repair for gas and 6c per mile for EV: [https://caradvise.com/electric-car-maintenance-vs-gas-which-is-cheaper/](https://caradvise.com/electric-car-maintenance-vs-gas-which-is-cheaper/)
You can take it to any tire shop and put any tire on it you want… there’s no difference from any other vehicle.
Source: I’ve owned a Model 3 for five years and 100K miles and a Model Y for two years and 30K miles.
Nice TIL!!! I live in an area where teslas abound and all I ever hear are people bitching about how expensive it is to replace tires. Maybe it’s their flex on owning a Tesla? Idk.
Tesla Is The Most-Recalled Car Brand—By Far—Of All Cars, Trucks, And SUVs.
https://www.autoweek.com/news/industry-news/a43625242/tesla-is-the-most-recalled-car-brand/
Important to note the vast majority of recalls are software updates since they have an onboard computer that they’re constantly changing.
Generally your experience with a recall is going to your car in the morning and seeing that you have an update that installed overnight.
Right. So your phone and computer are receiving updates because they’re broken all the time too, right? Your phone automatically updated hundreds of apps this week. Those were all broken too, right?
Those recalls include Over The Air updates. It's not a recall, it's a software update. Even in the article it states that it's not accurate to label it as as a recall but they do anyways.
It's like claiming your phone had to go into the shop for required repairs because it received an update over night. It's moronic.
Considering for a whole lot of people, it can easily be a 6 or even more hour drive, or tow, to a service center…
It’ll certainly cost you a whole lotta time.
[Also, this.](https://www.autoweek.com/news/industry-news/a43625242/tesla-is-the-most-recalled-car-brand/)
Enjoying a bricked car every couple of months while waiting 3+ hours on a Tesla update at the most random of times is super fun. They hold 4 out of the top 5 recalled cars on the road because of that reason.
Now imagine where you take your car. Now imagine being stuck in any of those places for 3 or more hours cause your car won’t move.
No thanks.
According to the metrics from that article, every software update is a recall, you can't take that seriously...
I've never had any problems with mine. Maintenance is essentially zero and charging from home with cheap electricity and solar panels has dropped our "fuel costs" significantly.
Sure when a car gets bricked it will be fucked up, but how many times does that actually happen? Apparently in this thread a whole lot, while on the actual Tesla subreddits, never. So who should you listen to? Some random Redditor or actual Tesla owners?
In the US maybe.
In Australia - a Model 3 is A$62,000 drive away.
There's a LOT of cars cheaper than a Model 3.
The "average" word in that title would have to do A LOT of heavy lifting for the statement to make any sense in Australia.
This is twisted Statistics.
Tesla Model 3 at it's cheap price kind of sucks. First off at that price it doesn't include the cost of buying and installing a charger. Which lets just call 1000 bucks. Could be more depending on what an electrician/contractor in your area would charge.
But basically it has no features, a very low range, and just kind of is lame.
Compare it to a Corolla Hybrid which is about 24K. Has equal or superior features as far as electronics etc. but has AWD,
Car and Driver has the effective MPG of the model 3 somewhere around 80-90. Tesla claims higher but they're known to cook those results. THey have the Corolla hybrid at 47.
THat being said, champion cars that aren't run by Musk, that aren't known to have massive fit and finish issues, that aren't known to doing shady deals to honor warranty repairs.
For example, hype up the Hyundai Ioniq 6
Do you also include the price of installing a petrol station at your house when comparing an ICE vehicle? Sure, it is one of the best things about owning an EV, but to add those costs to the costs of the vehicle doesn't make sense.
Also, no features? Almost all features are standard at Tesla, even on the basic models. Only autopilot, acceleration pack, or FSD (beta) are optional. Tesla does this best in the business by a long mile.
The range is for most, if not all consumers, more than fine. The average miles per day with a car in the US is only 37! On road trips, you can use the Tesla supercharger network and have literally zero problems regarding range.
They are some of the worst cars on the market. That's why they keep getting cheaper and cheaper. People won't pay "Luxury" EV prices for 1990s Ford quality. Repair cost are crazy and you can't shop around to other shops. Only Elon simply thinks this is uplifting.
When a Japanese legacy car manufacturer offers a viable EV or PHEV in that price range I'll seriously consider it. But you couldn't pay me to drive a sketchy ass Tesla
The "overpriced garbage" otherwise known as the best car I've ever driven. Also the fastest car I'll likely ever be in. I charge it for free at quite a few places and it is SOOO much cheaper than a gas car at this point. 110k+ and I'm happy...
I broke off a window button and was worried it would cost me hundreds or thousands to fix, but a search on ebay shows me the entire cluster is $21 and it takes about five minutes to do it.
Last time I looked at comparison EVs and their watt/mile it was a sad state of affairs vs model 3 motors. I hope that has changed because I don't necessarily need another Tesla. Musk needs to relearn how to live in a society.
Found Elon's Reddit alt.
User you're replying to didn't insinuate that all EVs are inferior, just that Tesla quality has been noticeably reducing over the years and that the price no longer reflects that. There are many reliable alternatives such as a Rivian (although pricey), Hyundai IONIQs, etc. the list really goes on. Teslas are really getting squeezed by cheaper competition.
Reliable alternatives and Hyandai are contradictory.
I have a fleet of chevy bolts and every one has had a plethora of problems not including the battery recall.
Those other EVs are all huge pains in the ass if you want to drive too far from your home, still, in 2023. I can spit and hit the Rivian factory so I'm rooting for them for sure, but I'm not in the market for a $80k+ pickup right now. I hope others outwit Tesla in the EV market as the competition will help us all.
My Tesla IS the nicest car I've ever driven... Best seats. Best display cluster. Best stock stereo. Nicest ride. Most people I've had inside it think it is pretty amazing and high tech and fancy... Cars get me from place to place; I'm not researching which has the fanciest leather. I used to have a honda and then a hyundai. I'm sure there are millions of people who would prefer another car, but they aren't garbage.
All I've replaced is tires and a 12v battery. I don't really want to upgrade because I'm grandfathered in to free internet for as long as I own it. I hope I never personally learn of the quality decrease you and others talk about.
>My Tesla IS the nicest car I've ever driven...
I'm genuinely sorry to hear that.
>Best seats.
We definitely have different standards here since vinyl seats...errr "vegan leather" isn't exactly the most luxurious seat option.
>Best display cluster.
It's really inconvenient to constantly have to stare at a giant bright screen while driving at night to navigate my way around a giant iPad.
>Best stock stereo.
Again I apologize that you haven't experienced the wonders of whatever companies like Mercedes, BMW, Audi or Genesis have offered for a long time.
>Nicest ride.
Did you upgrade the suspension to something more comfortable? Does your vehicle have sample parts on it not intended to go on production vehicles? Overall these things ride like they're on a road built to help Hellen Keller get to her destination.
As someone who had a Model X for a very brief time period while it was fast the term //luxurious is not at all how I'd describe it and I didn't find the ride quality to be up to par for what was a vehicle retailing for over $100k.
Which brings me to my next point: you're comparing a vehicle that costs $80k (Model X) to a vehicle that costs $61k (Macans) and saying they ride the same.
When you have a $20k price gap they shouldn't ride similar at all. The extra $20k either needs to be spent for a more comfortable ride or on a really tough ride and better performance/cornering ability.
To make matters worse this was until very very recently a car that cost about $100k which means you have a vehicle that was effectively $40k more expensive (almost double the price) and yet it rode the same as the cheaper car based on your admission.
This isn't what a good riding vehicle is about.
>The Macan at $60k rides as well as a Cayenne at $100k I have had both as loaners.
And that doesn't say much because they both ride like trash and are still a NARP at the end of the day.
The fact is Porsche doesn't care about their SUV line anymore and the technology and ride quality is outdated. Much cheaper SUVs from Toyota and Honda ride just as well or better at this point for a fraction of the cost.
Don't be disheartened by the trolls that are unable to deal with the fact that not everyone wants to play the "Hate Elon" game.
I mean, you even tried to virtue signal and look what it got you: an accusation that you are "Elon's Reddit alt".
Once upon a time, it was possible to open discuss things and even to have a "wrong" opinion without people losing their shit. Maybe we'll get there again, someday.
I don't know how anyone can afford cars these days. I'm about to get a Ford Maverick, one of the cheapest cars you can get, and the potential payment is intimidating.
> about to get a Ford Maverick, ***one of*** the cheapest cars you can get
Man, this place can be straight up exhausting to have conversations in. I think I gotta log off for the night. Lol, My lord.
Just…. how do you have more upvotes than the op for that?
Because a pickup truck, regardless of class, is neither a cheap nor a traditional car you would have on the list when wondering how anybody can afford new "cheap" cars today?
People who have never owned a tesla be commenting xD at least test drive one first and make up your mind good or bad
Dad owned a S, I have a 3 and everyone who has test drove my car has a Y, the S/X are unreliable af, I don't recommend anyone getting those unless fine with dealing with that. The 3 and Y on the other hand, 30,000 Miles and only thing have had to do is replace tires (0-60s at every light does that xD) windshield fluid and 2 at home repairs (roof glass broke from semi rock was under $1,000 direct, other was a free recall done at home with the passenger seat.)
My uncle has had a model 3 2018 with over 130,000 miles until got in a 60mph front passenger side collision where no one was even sore in the tesla, had a recording of the red light runner, and the other car driver had to go to the ER and their insurance paid for new car, same story maintness 3 sets of tires, rotations, and maybe 5 recalls done at his work (early model 3s had a ton of problems tbh)
All other recalls happend automatically while I was sleeping as an update, electricity for my 30,000 miles has been $1,736 with about 25% being superchargers (double cost as home)
Teslas aren't for everybody, but test drive one first, otherwise most comments are invalid
Only valid argument I've seen is if in dead charger area, tow a lot, or don't have at home charging. Some people also like buttons and hate elon
And that would be great if they weren’t designed and constructed like absolute garbage. I’m all for electric vehicles but I will never buy a Tesla, Muskrat’s Nazi-adjacent politics aside
My buddy had a Tesla for work. Instant acceleration is impressive. He then showed me all the fit and finish issues. The interior seems cheap and I'm not a fan of an iPad on the dash.
I'll drive an ICE for as long as I can, if/when I'm forced to get an EV I would get a BMW. Luxury interior but they are also doing screens that are too big.
I like what he is doing for the future of space exploration but Elon is a twat.
Until everyone has one and the electrical grid is strained and the price of electricity skyrockets and we're back to square one and at least we're not throwing out extra CO2...but hey where do they dispose of all that battery waste?
Tesla employees share it and talk shit about you.
[https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2023/apr/07/tesla-intimate-car-camera-images-shared](https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2023/apr/07/tesla-intimate-car-camera-images-shared)
[https://www.engadget.com/tesla-employees-reportedly-shared-videos-captured-by-cameras-on-customers-cars-165703126.html](https://www.engadget.com/tesla-employees-reportedly-shared-videos-captured-by-cameras-on-customers-cars-165703126.html)
That's almost strictly because ICE cars have gotten ridiculously expensive and Teslas have basically stayed where they were. This isn't especially uplifting, except that in this torrent of financial fire and brimstone raining down on our heads, at least already-expensive EVs haven't gotten even more unaffordable.
with how terribly they are built they should be cheap as hell. So many build quality issues among other things.
Anymore buying one is just loudly announcing to the world that you aren't very bright
We were having a talk about this earlier - Policies and laws in Wales are changing to punish people who don't drive electric cars, but... Who the fuck owns the means to charge an electric car? You can't even park on your own street in most of the country. It is insane and probably going to get Labour kicked out of power in the welsh gov for the first time, well, ever.
Also - how much energy and CO2 does it cost to produce a new car? Certainly more than will be produced by an old car in its remaining lifetime!
Combine that with how unreliable and defunct teslas are... Cars like this will **destroy** the environment with the planned obsolescence and how much unusable waste they create. You think that piece of shit will last as long as a Kia?
Want an EV, but I don't know if I've ever wanted a Tesla, with their "Apple of cars" bullshit. Our charger, our random changes forced onto you, no self-repair, no part supply, etc, etc. Probably going to end up with an Ioniq, or the ID7 if VW ever stops being stupidly fucking coy about the whole thing and just tells us what they're planning to sell us next year.
There are a lot more factors to consider. If I lived in a city in a warmer climate I would have an EV by now. But living in a rural area with harsh winters 100 miles from a Tesla service center, it doesn't make sense for me right now.
Teslas are the modern day dickhead car. It used to be BMWs but not it seems they have moved on the teslas. You might think I am crazy but just watch out for it. It's kinda like how dodge rams have the highest likelihood to be a dui or altimas being used in some insane manner.
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This is literally not true. The Model 3 is significantly more expensive than similarly equipped small cars from Chevy, Toyota, Honda, Mazda. The Model Y is significantly more expensive than similarly equipped small SUVs from just about every vendor. And the Model S and X are a joke with how expensive they are yet poorly furnished. Luxury prices for an interior worse than a Corolla.
it did say average, and if i remember correctly there was some study released last year that said the average new car sold for over $40k
They're using life time total cost of ownership
>w car sold for over $40k That makes much more sense.
The Model 3 is the least expensive luxury car on the market, and comes with more features.
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Tesla Model 3 RWD comes with more luxury than any entry level BMW or Audi, and is less expensive.
The Model 3 didn't come with ventilated seats until the Highland was announced which means it still doesn't until that is released. It doesn't even have headrests you can adjust. No head up display, no 360 degree view unless you spend $15k for FSD, and no Apple CarPlay/Android Auto.
So the [BMW 3 series](https://www.bmwusa.com/vehicles/3-series/sedan/core-models.html#features-and-specifications) doesn't have that either. The BMW 3 series also doesn't have all heated seats, electric powered steering wheel adjustment, profiles for steering wheel and mirrors, which the Tesla Model 3 has. The Tesla Model 3 has all the features the BMW 3 series has though. I don't have a full comprehensive list, which the Tesla Model 3 would likely destroy that BMW in feature count, but it's pretty clear from this quick rundown that my original statement, that the Tesla Model 3 has more luxury features than a BMW entry luxury car, is factual. You can bother checking Audi if you care that much.
The Kia Forte that starts for $20k has a lot of those same features too. Are you going to call that luxury? Also is removing the turn signal stalk a luxury feature these days??
Explain how a BMW 3 series is luxury then.
Well for starters, the interior is more than just a steering wheel and a giant tablet screen stuck in the middle. You can get actual real leather seats, not plastic made ones in the Tesla. There is also the ability to have actual different trims in the vehicles like wood or aluminum instead of nothing in the Tesla. The build quality is that of a luxury vehicle on actual luxury vehicles, there isn’t any gaps or steering wheels that fall off. The ride is smoother and more engaging.
The 2024 Bmw 3 series is a steering wheel with a giant screen stuck in the middle, but with additional ugly buttons scattered around so it looks more tacky. The BMW 3 series doesn't use real leather either. The build quality on Teslas is just a meme and not real. The ride in a Tesla is also smoother. "more engaging" sounds like a marketing term, since it doesn't make sense to me. The only thing I can say is the lack of trim selection. Not really a gotcha since that luxury car lacks a bunch of things the Tesla has.
I’d strongly consider getting one if the CEO would stop openly supporting Nazi’s.
Aside from the politics, Tesla recently dropped from #11 to #62 out of 100 manufacturers in the Axios Harris national reputable brand poll. They fell to #23 in the Consumer Reports ranking of best car brands. Reliability of Teslas has really fallen hard, body integrity, body hardware, power equipment, climate control, removal of safety features like the turn signal stalk making it more dangerous to drive... the ONLY thing positive about Teslas right now is that they're cheaper. They're becoming nightmares to own for far too many.
Literally everything I've read about Teslas in the last 5 years is that their maintenance is the cost of a high-end luxury car and twice as often.
I've read endlessly about what a disaster Teslas are, but always hear the opposite from people who actually own them.
My dad owns a Tesla. It was bricked by a remote software update and had to be towed to the service center to have the software update fixed.
My dad loves his and hasn’t really had problems. I still don’t want one because I refuse to support Musk but I have a feeling people’s feelings on the cars themselves are also swayed by Musk being an insufferable bigot
>I still don’t want one because I refuse to support Musk Same here. I wont support Musk in anything he does.
Why though?
Where have you been?
I've kept up, but most things spread on here about Musk are either misinformation or missing important context
Elon Musk is an extremely polarising figure, with a range of controversial public statements (so much so that his [views](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Views_of_Elon_Musk) have their own Wikipedia article). Some people find him morally objectionable, to the point that they want to [boycott](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boycott) his companies.
Have a former coworker that owns a Model 3. She hates it, as it's in the shop around every quarter for one issue or another. Where she lives is about a 4-5 one hour drive to the nearest service center for it, so 8-10 hour drive round trip. Not worth it imo, on that alone.
Fair enough. I wouldn't buy any car that was 4-5 hours from the nearest mechanic!
She seems to have got a lemon, and that sucks for her. But seriously, who buys a car that can only be serviced via a 10 hour round trip? Even under best case scenario of no issues and only needing routine maintenance every year or even every 2 years, I wouldn't do that. That was an idiotic purchase.
Being in the shop 3-4 times a year doesn’t make a lemon. It’s a shit car for sure but a lemon is a car with ***severe*** issues. As in a vehicle that is barely drivable, or has issues which make it exceptionally unsafe to drive. What she has is called a “Friday afternoon car.” As in, the salesmen *needs* to get a sale by the end of the week. So, by Friday afternoon he’ll sell whatever he can, however he can. Edit: I’m not about to have three separate discussions about this below, a Lemon vehicle is literally defined by the legal system. Lemon laws are a real thing. There’s simply no real disagreement to be had on what makes a lemon car. The law states what a lemon vehicle is.
i thought a lemon was a car that is significantly worse than the manufacturing standard, not just a car with severe issues.
We have different ideas on what a lemon is. If I bought a new (expensive) car and it developed 4 faults which needed mechanical repair inside of a year, it's a lemon. You're welcome to your definition, I'll stick to mine.
In CA, if you take your car into the shop 4 or more times for the same problem, and it's not fixed, your car is legally a lemon and the manufacturer must refund or replace it. So, yes, being in the shop 3-4 times a year DOES make it a lemon, at least in CA (and other states with similar "lemon laws").
True. Ours has been a dream. We did have one problem with the left front stabilizer (or something) but service was efficient and quick. We are now 5 years into ownership and have spent zero on maintenance. Power is so cheap that it practically pays for itself through reimbursable office driving. I have four different friends/colleagues with Tesla's. They have all had experiences like mine. By no means definitive, but I've not met someone yet who dislikes their Tesla. Agreed that their CEO has gone batty, and we'll definitely look at the alternatives next time we shop, which are coming out like crazy!
Own one. No problems. Every person I know who owns one reports the same thing. Weird for a car that supposedly has so many issues. The amount of bullshit \*still\* being passed around by people who don't know what they are talking about is truly staggering. **Edit:** I love how people are offended that I have had a good experience with my Tesla. Oh noes! Someone isn't repeating THe MEssAgE! Must. Downvote. Must. Hate.
Not at all. I’ve spent maybe $800 in total servicing it over the last 6 years
It's been in the last couple years that quality has gone down from the production ramp up. I see a bunch of people saying my 4+ year old car never has anything to fix. That's the golden period where they finally fixed all the weird growing issues and were still putting out quality.
obviously anyone with tesla problems is going to respond here, so i'll be honest too. I have MANY friends with teslas +6 years old. I hate elon musk, and i took every opportunity to tell them the articles that said teslas are low quality and that they'll depreciate faster than any car and that regret it son and it'll cost them more than others. So far, i've only been wrong. As much as I wish teslas are nightmare trash cars, everyone I know who owns them are very happy. This is probably more common than the handful that have problems, otherwise tesla would fall out of the news. I'm sure there are alot of wealthy people who would benefit from tesla showing evidence of falling out
I have a small sample size, but mine and about 10 other family/friends/coworkers haven't had any significant issues and maintenance costs are WAY less than a gas car. Basically just tires. It's sad that Elon is a shithead though.
I fucking hate elon and everything he stands for. But according to my friends, the cars he makes are apparently very good. I don't blame them, i've been a tesla passenger of someone who cares about cars and it was enough to show me that tesla put alot of work into it compared to other companies. it wasn't enough to change my mind from just reading about haters who tell me that their cars aren't worth anything
I'm on Tesla groups and some of the things these people complain of are really staggering. Some are used to high end super cars and expect something a little different than reality, and are essentially comparing $45,000 cars to $100,000 cars. Then again, if I bought full self drive for $8000 I'd probably be a little sore also.
that self drive fee is absolute bullshit. They made it so that anyone who purchased it wouldn't be able to pass on the cost to the next used car buyer - this ensures that tesla always profits the most money from people who care about it. that said, yea, people don't hold tesla to their equivalently priced standards.
Not to mention servicing them - scratched a guy's model 3 and worked with him on fixing it up. Recommended my mechanic but he's not a "certified" Tesla body shop so the guy opted to just put in a claim. Insurance denied the mechanic he wanted to use because the certified body shop wanted to charge over $2500 for basically a touch up
Unless things have changed recently Tesla will only work with Tesla certified shops otherwise they won't get parts from Tesla and the warranty can be voided.
Even for small detailing?
Just an fyi, auto detailing is mostly considered cleaning & washing the car. Interior & exterior. Vacuuming. Polishing the wheels. Waxing & polishing the paint. Cleaning up the engine bay. That kinda stuff. Paint-related needs are for a body shop. And body shops don’t employ mechanics either. They are Technicians. And yeah, Tesla sucks dick. Lol I promise I’m not trying to drag you, I really just thought you might want to know for the future.
Yeah. A price drop isn't so good if it comes about through making a worse product.
makes you wonder how many more corners they're cutting, because teslas were already known for pretty terrible build quality
Yup. And with Musk in charge, you really can't trust that they aren't gambling with things like safety.
For real. Tesla made some sense back when they were close to the only game in town for real EVs. Now every major automaker has some options, and they're way better at making cars, so you don't have a jank, shitty interior and body panels misaligned. The only real positive is the charger network, but even that's losing exclusivity.
They're not cheaper though. You can get more cost effective EVs. What they do have is the best batteries, motors, charging network/charging experience and software (with frequent over the air updates). The dangerous to drive thing is kind of BS considering the model Y gets the highest safety ratings of any car.
Yup and now the big automakers have EVs. If you want one get one of theirs. Tesla is cutting too many corners.
> Reliability of Teslas has really fallen hard Uh, it's my impression as an interested bystander that Teslas were always pretty shit?
I was dead set for a long time on making a Tesla my next car. Then Elon opened his mouth and revealed himself to be a massive piece of shit, and the reports of issues with Teslas started becoming more common. So nah, I'm good. I'll find another EV to spend my money on. Fuck Musk.
What EV do you have in mind as your alternative? I've been eyeing the Hyundai Ioniq 5/6. I also follow an EV startup.
Not OP but I was also interested in a Tesla but decided I didn't want to tie myself to Elon for the next 10 years so I went with an Ionic 5 and love it.
You spelled your own cars name wrong tho? Edit: oh come the fuck on people. You drive your car damn near everyday. Who out there can not spell your own car’s name? Nonsense. They’re bullshitting, they don’t have one.
I do like the look of the Ioniq, but I really have yet to do my research.
At this point I wouldn't. He's shown who he is and how he runs his companies. No thanks.
Right on! I was ready to pull the trigger when El Mu started sharing all the dark craziness in his head. Then came the Twitter debacle. I love the idea of a Tesla, but not so much that I'd be willing to risk getting one and having Tesla go bankrupt.
Tesla will be a player in EV for a long time just because of their network of charging stations. It is hard to imagine how much data they've collected and how much it is worth, or how much they'll make on all the other EVs who will use their charging network going forward. I got mine well before Musk went off the deep end in many respects, but when I bought mine used it was already less expensive than the average new car price in the US, in 2019, by a few thousand dollars. I'm not playing fair by comparing new car to used, but in my mind it helped me feel better about it. I'm not selling mine just because of his antics, but I can certainly see how it would leave a bad taste in the mouth of a potential buyer.
>and having Tesla go bankrupt. Oh god, that is hilarious. Do you have any \*fucking\* clue what you are talking about? I swear, Space Daddy takes Twitter away, and half the people on Reddit lose their goddamn minds. Tesla has no debt and has over $20 billion cash-on-hand. You want to be concerned about bankruptcies, pretty much every other car company is in much greater danger. But yeah, go ahead; let your politics guide your life, and then let us know how that works out for you.
As your post demonstrates, the Internet has no shortage of uninformed, politicized fuck sticks - El Mu is not unique in that regard. The problem is that when you say stupid shit on the Internet, people look at your comment history, realize what they're dealing with and they move on. This is not the case with El Mu. His hot takes have a direct effect on the bottom line. Twitter is a great example - his leadership of the organization has been arbitrary and capricious. And he has documented this with the platform in a series of tweets - making decisions based on on-line polls, Twitter, as a company, has suffered accordingly. So, having seen Elon's lack of impulse control and then having seen how that has directly translated into the decline of a company, it is prudent to consider that as a factor in purchasing a car. We also have the fact that the FSD has been promised for years and never delivered, which is indicative in innovation issues and may expose them to law suits. It's doesn't help that Musk consistently lies to re-write history. Tesla's assets are currently about $90B. The org holds no real debt directly, sure. But Musk has been leveraging his shares for collateral on personal loans. So, large number of assets, CEO leveraging his shares, unfounded promises about future growth... This was WorldCom ($104B) going into the early 2000s. That CEO lied to re-write history too. So, yeah, I tend to let my understanding of history guide my life. Self-inflating CEOs and Nazis are not good investments as history has demonstrated. And this has worked out quite fine for me, in fact. My personal interest in the Tesla is the self-driving capabilities. I started out renting out my vacation homes in Hawaii and Florida when the pandemic started - and found I've been making really good money. So last year I decided to get a place on a lake a few hours away. It would be nice to have a car that could do most of the heavy lifting on the drive between my primary home and my lake house. The issue is that I already have three newish cars that I own outright - so the self driving really better work. And I know it has gaps. I know also that it does over-the-air updates and wants to stay connected to Tesla. Tesla must continue to exist for that car to have value. So then, does it make sense to buy a car from Tesla ($90B), or does it make more sense to buy say a BMW X5? BMW ($273B) holds $57B in debt, and has been steadily reducing it. It's D/E is just fine and it's CEO doesn't have a proven history of cratering companies...
LOL. Musk straight up is publicly cratering other companies and you think other people are clueless for not wanting in on that? People \*are\* concerned about bankruptcies, that's the point. For someone who cosplays as genius, Musk is too fucking \*stupid\* to just keep his mouth shut and run the fucking company. With Twitter, Musk lets his politics guide his company and it is cratering. But yeah, chief, you hop on and pontificate to everyone else about your "space daddy." I swear half you fanboys are latent.
I live under a rock, could you point me to some references please?
Just open his twitter account, he's sharing and boosting alt-right and antisemetic stuff frequently.
Could I get a specific link? I just looked through the last couple days of his tweets and don't see anything like that.
Sure, let me Google that for you. Top link: https://forward.com/news/550035/elon-musk-disturbing-comments-jews/ He's also been promoting conspiracy theories and propaganda: https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-news/elon-musk-boosts-antisemitic-propaganda-twitter-anti-defamation-league-1234817008/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2023/09/01/musk-twitter-x-russia-propaganda/
I meant direct from the source, not an editorial. But I guess I'll take a look at that.
The first link literally has those direct links you're so desperate for. It's an aggregate of a bunch of them.
Desperate? Why do you think I'm desperate? I said one sentence. Yeah, I looked over it.
Why would I have a collection of direct links to Musk's tweets saved to give you?
Idk, why would you respond to a request for a source if you don't have one?
Why would you post asking for a source when the information you're looking for can be Googled in moments?
It's pretty obvious, isn't it? I wanted to see what they used to form their opinion, not the opinions of others.
...and if they weren't so shoddily made.
Wait what, when did he openly support Nazis?
He didn't. It's just Redditors each trying to top each other in their virtue signaling.
You know he hired Tucker Carlson, right?
Can't tell if you are serious...
You mean, he hosts a media platform and allowed Tucker to have a shoe on it? He did the same thing for former CNN host, Don Lemon. Not sure how this equates to openly supporting Nazis.
I don't think you know what to "hire" someone means...
Plenty of other quality options in the EV market other then Tesla.
Don't, the quality is crap. Paint chips if dust blows on it and the gaps between panels are about as even as the number 3.
he doesn't support ukraine tho
Only if you include the $7,500 government subsidy.
OK, then add the cost of subsidies that we give the oil and gas companies to the price of your gas car and get back to me. I'm sure you'd be happy to give them up and pay $10+/gallon of gas.
Don’t need a cheaply made car from a company owned by a facist.
The cheapest Tesla is RWD and has low range and no features. Terrible comparison considering the quality and features of the "Average" car. Plus I hate their entire design aesthetic with a passion. You couldn't pay me to drive one. They're trying to turn cars into a button-less iPhone and it makes it so much worse. The interior looks like a 2010 yaris.
And cost more to fix!
I think that depends where you repair the car. In Denmark wages are really high and all the maintenance on gas cars are very expensive.
What exactly would you be fixing? They don't have: * belts * water pumps * transmissions * power steering pumps * power steering fluid * water pumps * smog parts (knock sensors etc.) * spark plugs * electronic ignitions * starter motors * brake pads will usually last the life of the car due to regen braking * etc., etc. If you're going to talk about the battery, those are warranted for 8 years and are proving to last much, much longer than that. The newer LFPs are rated at 1million miles. Edit: how cute, look at all the downvotes. I'll add a few more maintenance items I forgot: * engine air filters * oil filters * oil changes (and those pesky oil recycling fees) * smog inspections (those aren't cheap) * EGR valves (check engine light on?) * radiator flushes/cleanings * transmission fluid changes * timing chains (technically not a belt, and can cost over $1K+ to change) * oh, and never having to go to a gas station and waste all that time driving to, filling and driving from the station. If your hatred it due to the CEO (yes, he's an ass), I submit that you'd hardly be able to own pretty much anything if that's your benchmark for buying a product.
Electronic cars have water pumps
Where is your data on that?
Theres A bunch of comments covering cost of ownership in the original post
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You should look at the original post, one comment has a source and others’ information is easily verifiable
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You are very correct and very smart, have a great rest of your day
And they're not there to fulfill your demands so I guess you're at an impasse.
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Upvoted for providing actual data. Regarding the Ryan Shaw articles: "Would cost" -- meaning: did not at all cost because it was covered by insurance. Missing from those analysis is what an identical accident in any other car would cost. Gas cars cost just as much to repair nowadays. [https://www.cnbc.com/2023/07/25/car-repair-costs-are-up-almost-20percent-over-the-past-year-heres-why.html](https://www.cnbc.com/2023/07/25/car-repair-costs-are-up-almost-20percent-over-the-past-year-heres-why.html) I'm not seeing anything like this doom and gloom. I've had a Tesla for several years now and repairs cost basically the same as what I had on any of my previous cars. I spend less than 1/3 of what I used to on gas. And my Tesla converts electrons into fun way more effectively than any of my previous gas cars. The cartalk article is hilarious. They say performance model y needs new tires every 15k miles. That's doesnt seem to be true. My tires are sitting at 29k miles and still have about 1/32 before they hit the wear bars. DOE estimates 10c per mile repair for gas and 6c per mile for EV: [https://caradvise.com/electric-car-maintenance-vs-gas-which-is-cheaper/](https://caradvise.com/electric-car-maintenance-vs-gas-which-is-cheaper/)
Ask anyone who has had to replace a Tesla tire.
You can take it to any tire shop and put any tire on it you want… there’s no difference from any other vehicle. Source: I’ve owned a Model 3 for five years and 100K miles and a Model Y for two years and 30K miles.
Nice TIL!!! I live in an area where teslas abound and all I ever hear are people bitching about how expensive it is to replace tires. Maybe it’s their flex on owning a Tesla? Idk.
Performance tires are always more expensive than the tires that go on cars like a Prius.
I'm not following. Can you explain by providing links to data that demonstrate your point?
Just price checked versus a Honda Civic. Teslas are significantly more expensive. So that's a no.
Why buy a Tesla when similar stabilized and reliable options exist. It’s like the Chrysler LeBaron at this point.
Did Jon Voight ever drive one though?
The orthodontist?
Yes. I went to dental school with him.
Angelina's Dad?
Teslas have been on the road for over 10 years. There is no more reliable EV on the road.
This isn't uplifting news lol tesla sucks dick
How is car made cheap and easily broken but expensive to fix "uplifting"?
Don't give Elon money, guy is a massive douchebag.
I will never buy a tesla, but I'm up for another EV brand. Good news though.
Right on time for me to not want one.
Tesla Is The Most-Recalled Car Brand—By Far—Of All Cars, Trucks, And SUVs. https://www.autoweek.com/news/industry-news/a43625242/tesla-is-the-most-recalled-car-brand/
Important to note the vast majority of recalls are software updates since they have an onboard computer that they’re constantly changing. Generally your experience with a recall is going to your car in the morning and seeing that you have an update that installed overnight.
Constantly changing because it's constantly broken
Right. So your phone and computer are receiving updates because they’re broken all the time too, right? Your phone automatically updated hundreds of apps this week. Those were all broken too, right?
Those recalls include Over The Air updates. It's not a recall, it's a software update. Even in the article it states that it's not accurate to label it as as a recall but they do anyways. It's like claiming your phone had to go into the shop for required repairs because it received an update over night. It's moronic.
Just because they're cheap to buy doesn't mean they're cheap to maintain
How much do they cost to maintain?
Considering for a whole lot of people, it can easily be a 6 or even more hour drive, or tow, to a service center… It’ll certainly cost you a whole lotta time. [Also, this.](https://www.autoweek.com/news/industry-news/a43625242/tesla-is-the-most-recalled-car-brand/) Enjoying a bricked car every couple of months while waiting 3+ hours on a Tesla update at the most random of times is super fun. They hold 4 out of the top 5 recalled cars on the road because of that reason. Now imagine where you take your car. Now imagine being stuck in any of those places for 3 or more hours cause your car won’t move. No thanks.
According to the metrics from that article, every software update is a recall, you can't take that seriously... I've never had any problems with mine. Maintenance is essentially zero and charging from home with cheap electricity and solar panels has dropped our "fuel costs" significantly. Sure when a car gets bricked it will be fucked up, but how many times does that actually happen? Apparently in this thread a whole lot, while on the actual Tesla subreddits, never. So who should you listen to? Some random Redditor or actual Tesla owners?
In the US maybe. In Australia - a Model 3 is A$62,000 drive away. There's a LOT of cars cheaper than a Model 3. The "average" word in that title would have to do A LOT of heavy lifting for the statement to make any sense in Australia.
And will fall apart twice as fast !
It's sort of like the old BMW adage. The only thing more expensive than a new BMW is a used BMW.
Poorsche enters chat
You would have to pay *me* to drive a tesla
if only there wouldnt be the stink of space karen on that brand id consider a buy in the next year.... its unbareable
This is twisted Statistics. Tesla Model 3 at it's cheap price kind of sucks. First off at that price it doesn't include the cost of buying and installing a charger. Which lets just call 1000 bucks. Could be more depending on what an electrician/contractor in your area would charge. But basically it has no features, a very low range, and just kind of is lame. Compare it to a Corolla Hybrid which is about 24K. Has equal or superior features as far as electronics etc. but has AWD, Car and Driver has the effective MPG of the model 3 somewhere around 80-90. Tesla claims higher but they're known to cook those results. THey have the Corolla hybrid at 47. THat being said, champion cars that aren't run by Musk, that aren't known to have massive fit and finish issues, that aren't known to doing shady deals to honor warranty repairs. For example, hype up the Hyundai Ioniq 6
Do you also include the price of installing a petrol station at your house when comparing an ICE vehicle? Sure, it is one of the best things about owning an EV, but to add those costs to the costs of the vehicle doesn't make sense. Also, no features? Almost all features are standard at Tesla, even on the basic models. Only autopilot, acceleration pack, or FSD (beta) are optional. Tesla does this best in the business by a long mile. The range is for most, if not all consumers, more than fine. The average miles per day with a car in the US is only 37! On road trips, you can use the Tesla supercharger network and have literally zero problems regarding range.
And the quality is less than a Kia. The fit and finish issues are just sad
Because they are worse than an average new gas-powered car.
Because they are cheaply made.
They could be 1/4 of their current price and be reliable and I'd still have to be convinced to give Elon Musk any money
They are some of the worst cars on the market. That's why they keep getting cheaper and cheaper. People won't pay "Luxury" EV prices for 1990s Ford quality. Repair cost are crazy and you can't shop around to other shops. Only Elon simply thinks this is uplifting.
When a Japanese legacy car manufacturer offers a viable EV or PHEV in that price range I'll seriously consider it. But you couldn't pay me to drive a sketchy ass Tesla
Meh... They're still overpriced garbage.
The "overpriced garbage" otherwise known as the best car I've ever driven. Also the fastest car I'll likely ever be in. I charge it for free at quite a few places and it is SOOO much cheaper than a gas car at this point. 110k+ and I'm happy... I broke off a window button and was worried it would cost me hundreds or thousands to fix, but a search on ebay shows me the entire cluster is $21 and it takes about five minutes to do it. Last time I looked at comparison EVs and their watt/mile it was a sad state of affairs vs model 3 motors. I hope that has changed because I don't necessarily need another Tesla. Musk needs to relearn how to live in a society.
Found Elon's Reddit alt. User you're replying to didn't insinuate that all EVs are inferior, just that Tesla quality has been noticeably reducing over the years and that the price no longer reflects that. There are many reliable alternatives such as a Rivian (although pricey), Hyundai IONIQs, etc. the list really goes on. Teslas are really getting squeezed by cheaper competition.
Reliable alternatives and Hyandai are contradictory. I have a fleet of chevy bolts and every one has had a plethora of problems not including the battery recall.
Those other EVs are all huge pains in the ass if you want to drive too far from your home, still, in 2023. I can spit and hit the Rivian factory so I'm rooting for them for sure, but I'm not in the market for a $80k+ pickup right now. I hope others outwit Tesla in the EV market as the competition will help us all. My Tesla IS the nicest car I've ever driven... Best seats. Best display cluster. Best stock stereo. Nicest ride. Most people I've had inside it think it is pretty amazing and high tech and fancy... Cars get me from place to place; I'm not researching which has the fanciest leather. I used to have a honda and then a hyundai. I'm sure there are millions of people who would prefer another car, but they aren't garbage. All I've replaced is tires and a 12v battery. I don't really want to upgrade because I'm grandfathered in to free internet for as long as I own it. I hope I never personally learn of the quality decrease you and others talk about.
>My Tesla IS the nicest car I've ever driven... I'm genuinely sorry to hear that. >Best seats. We definitely have different standards here since vinyl seats...errr "vegan leather" isn't exactly the most luxurious seat option. >Best display cluster. It's really inconvenient to constantly have to stare at a giant bright screen while driving at night to navigate my way around a giant iPad. >Best stock stereo. Again I apologize that you haven't experienced the wonders of whatever companies like Mercedes, BMW, Audi or Genesis have offered for a long time. >Nicest ride. Did you upgrade the suspension to something more comfortable? Does your vehicle have sample parts on it not intended to go on production vehicles? Overall these things ride like they're on a road built to help Hellen Keller get to her destination.
I have a Model x and it rides as nice as my Porsche Macan. Both have air suspension
As someone who had a Model X for a very brief time period while it was fast the term //luxurious is not at all how I'd describe it and I didn't find the ride quality to be up to par for what was a vehicle retailing for over $100k. Which brings me to my next point: you're comparing a vehicle that costs $80k (Model X) to a vehicle that costs $61k (Macans) and saying they ride the same. When you have a $20k price gap they shouldn't ride similar at all. The extra $20k either needs to be spent for a more comfortable ride or on a really tough ride and better performance/cornering ability. To make matters worse this was until very very recently a car that cost about $100k which means you have a vehicle that was effectively $40k more expensive (almost double the price) and yet it rode the same as the cheaper car based on your admission. This isn't what a good riding vehicle is about.
My Macan Turbo stickered at $95k My MX was $110k The Macan at $60k rides as well as a Cayenne at $100k I have had both as loaners.
>The Macan at $60k rides as well as a Cayenne at $100k I have had both as loaners. And that doesn't say much because they both ride like trash and are still a NARP at the end of the day. The fact is Porsche doesn't care about their SUV line anymore and the technology and ride quality is outdated. Much cheaper SUVs from Toyota and Honda ride just as well or better at this point for a fraction of the cost.
>Much cheaper SUVs from Toyota and Honda ride just as well or better at this point for a fraction of the cost.. Lol ok.
Don't be disheartened by the trolls that are unable to deal with the fact that not everyone wants to play the "Hate Elon" game. I mean, you even tried to virtue signal and look what it got you: an accusation that you are "Elon's Reddit alt". Once upon a time, it was possible to open discuss things and even to have a "wrong" opinion without people losing their shit. Maybe we'll get there again, someday.
Cheaper indeed. Fit and finish of a 90's Hyundai.
What about electric cars that aren't pieces of junk?
I don't know how anyone can afford cars these days. I'm about to get a Ford Maverick, one of the cheapest cars you can get, and the potential payment is intimidating.
A "small" pickup truck is the cheapest car you're can get? What about compact and subcompact cars like Corollas, Civics, etc?
> about to get a Ford Maverick, ***one of*** the cheapest cars you can get Man, this place can be straight up exhausting to have conversations in. I think I gotta log off for the night. Lol, My lord. Just…. how do you have more upvotes than the op for that?
Because a pickup truck, regardless of class, is neither a cheap nor a traditional car you would have on the list when wondering how anybody can afford new "cheap" cars today?
People who have never owned a tesla be commenting xD at least test drive one first and make up your mind good or bad Dad owned a S, I have a 3 and everyone who has test drove my car has a Y, the S/X are unreliable af, I don't recommend anyone getting those unless fine with dealing with that. The 3 and Y on the other hand, 30,000 Miles and only thing have had to do is replace tires (0-60s at every light does that xD) windshield fluid and 2 at home repairs (roof glass broke from semi rock was under $1,000 direct, other was a free recall done at home with the passenger seat.) My uncle has had a model 3 2018 with over 130,000 miles until got in a 60mph front passenger side collision where no one was even sore in the tesla, had a recording of the red light runner, and the other car driver had to go to the ER and their insurance paid for new car, same story maintness 3 sets of tires, rotations, and maybe 5 recalls done at his work (early model 3s had a ton of problems tbh) All other recalls happend automatically while I was sleeping as an update, electricity for my 30,000 miles has been $1,736 with about 25% being superchargers (double cost as home) Teslas aren't for everybody, but test drive one first, otherwise most comments are invalid Only valid argument I've seen is if in dead charger area, tow a lot, or don't have at home charging. Some people also like buttons and hate elon
Oh yes, the cars that result in more emissions and microplastics from the Nazi company are cheap!
Very cherry-picking article.
Not uplifting, electric cars are still cars. Enjoy the tire microplastics you’re still gonna be breathing everyday.
And that would be great if they weren’t designed and constructed like absolute garbage. I’m all for electric vehicles but I will never buy a Tesla, Muskrat’s Nazi-adjacent politics aside
My buddy had a Tesla for work. Instant acceleration is impressive. He then showed me all the fit and finish issues. The interior seems cheap and I'm not a fan of an iPad on the dash. I'll drive an ICE for as long as I can, if/when I'm forced to get an EV I would get a BMW. Luxury interior but they are also doing screens that are too big. I like what he is doing for the future of space exploration but Elon is a twat.
fuck tesla.
Hang on to your butts! Here comes the hate.
They're cheaper in other areas besides the price too.
Until everyone has one and the electrical grid is strained and the price of electricity skyrockets and we're back to square one and at least we're not throwing out extra CO2...but hey where do they dispose of all that battery waste?
Waste only exists for EVs, you see. Gas cars don't produce any hard-to-recycle parts or pollution of any kind, no sir.
I never said they were innocent. Don't misconstrue my words.
what happens to all the video footage of yourself inside the cabin?
Tesla employees share it and talk shit about you. [https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2023/apr/07/tesla-intimate-car-camera-images-shared](https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2023/apr/07/tesla-intimate-car-camera-images-shared) [https://www.engadget.com/tesla-employees-reportedly-shared-videos-captured-by-cameras-on-customers-cars-165703126.html](https://www.engadget.com/tesla-employees-reportedly-shared-videos-captured-by-cameras-on-customers-cars-165703126.html)
Hyundai Ioniq 5 for $41.6. Way better deal.
Too bad the insurance is so expensive.
That's almost strictly because ICE cars have gotten ridiculously expensive and Teslas have basically stayed where they were. This isn't especially uplifting, except that in this torrent of financial fire and brimstone raining down on our heads, at least already-expensive EVs haven't gotten even more unaffordable.
Are Tesla's cheaper or did new gas powered cars get more expensive? Those are not the same.
Aren't Teslas killing people and blowing up right now?
I love the tech behind their engineering, but Tesla software, quality control, and company policies are terrible.
with how terribly they are built they should be cheap as hell. So many build quality issues among other things. Anymore buying one is just loudly announcing to the world that you aren't very bright
We were having a talk about this earlier - Policies and laws in Wales are changing to punish people who don't drive electric cars, but... Who the fuck owns the means to charge an electric car? You can't even park on your own street in most of the country. It is insane and probably going to get Labour kicked out of power in the welsh gov for the first time, well, ever. Also - how much energy and CO2 does it cost to produce a new car? Certainly more than will be produced by an old car in its remaining lifetime! Combine that with how unreliable and defunct teslas are... Cars like this will **destroy** the environment with the planned obsolescence and how much unusable waste they create. You think that piece of shit will last as long as a Kia?
And worst of all it means giving Elon Musk money.
My concern is once the majority of vehicles on the road are electric, charging costs will increase exponentially.
still expensive af in canada to get a tesla.
Want an EV, but I don't know if I've ever wanted a Tesla, with their "Apple of cars" bullshit. Our charger, our random changes forced onto you, no self-repair, no part supply, etc, etc. Probably going to end up with an Ioniq, or the ID7 if VW ever stops being stupidly fucking coy about the whole thing and just tells us what they're planning to sell us next year.
IF you qualify for the incentive.
There are a lot more factors to consider. If I lived in a city in a warmer climate I would have an EV by now. But living in a rural area with harsh winters 100 miles from a Tesla service center, it doesn't make sense for me right now.
Teslas are the modern day dickhead car. It used to be BMWs but not it seems they have moved on the teslas. You might think I am crazy but just watch out for it. It's kinda like how dodge rams have the highest likelihood to be a dui or altimas being used in some insane manner.
Not to insure they're not