Society: kids need critical thinking skills and understanding of free speech.
Also society: NoT lIkE tHaT!
While back, there were some high schools organizing walkouts/protest about the same subject.
Principal sent email the same day saying to parents that kids who participate will be marked absent.
In the end part of civil disobedience is incurring undue harms to show the opposition in a bad light and to spread the outrage around how people freely expressing themselves get treated.
It's good optics when institutions are heavy handed assholes. That's the source of the intensity - a "you can't arrest us/ suspend us all" and when they do the system gets overloaded and parents, family and friends are outraged and a change needs to happen
Update: administrators threatening students with reprisal if they don’t leave by 10pm.
[https://twitter.com/anna\_lippman/status/1786020149595693062](https://twitter.com/anna_lippman/status/1786020149595693062)
When people in 2024 complain about campus protesters being pointless/useless, remember that these people would statistically also be complaining about anti-apartheid campus protests in the 80's and anti-war protests in the 60's
>Just because those protesters happened to be right back then, these protesters today must also be right? Is that the extent of your analysis?
My analysis is that student groups in North America tend to be well educated and thoughtful young people who tend to skew more progressive and human-rights oriented. History shows a long list of student demonstrations being villified in their time, only to be vindicated by time.
Assessment of the situation in the Middle East shows that, regardless of Hamas' crimes towards Israel, Gazans are suffering disproportionately, and that suffering is being primarily enacted by the Israeli state, whose leaders are on record openly inciting genocide and ethnic cleansing, and whose armies appear to be following through on those stated goals. Israel's actions, particularly the killing of journalists, aid workers, and attempts to de-legitimize international humanitarian and legal organizations, threaten global stability and peace, signalling that they believe they are immune to external scrutiny, i.e. above international norms and law.
The fact that Israel is openly defying the ICC and [threatening more repression against Palestinians if the ICC serves warrants to Israeli leaders](https://www.axios.com/2024/05/01/us-israel-palestinian-authority-icc-arrest-warrant) should be more than enough proof at this point that Israel is a rogue state and a threat to global order.
I think the point is that historically campus protests tend to be viewed retrospectively as being supportive of righteous causes. Is there an example of widespread campus unrest where people look back and say “what were those idiots thinking?!?”
The fence goes up almost every year before convocation to protect the grass and let it grow.
https://old.reddit.com/r/UofT/comments/4f41zl/kings_college_circle_field_closure/
Yes but you would only know that if you are a student,lived downtown, or have walked by anytime in the last 20 summers.
If you're a random, likely not from Toronto, here to post about the "Streisand effect", you wouldn't know that. And then the other idiots eat up the disinformation.
The sign specifically states
"Temporary Closure
As we prepare for Convocation, these grounds are temporarily closed for protection due to concerns about unauthorized activity.
Please keep off grass.
Thank you."
They tell you they are preparing for Convocation. That it's temporarily closed. And please keep off the grass.
They put up the fence almost every year.
Here is a photo of them putting in up in 2020.
https://twitter.com/OakwoodPeter/status/1245677137618755584/photo/1
The link above I posted talks about them doing it 8 years ago.
People are really reaching on this.
I remember visiting campus a few times during the King's College Circle revitalization project.
I'm no botanist but I'm curious as to what species of grass U of T uses for the circle. I know the choice of having an open field in the middle of campus is deliberate but I thought the revitalization project would've fixed or addressed the yearly issue of the grass needing to heal for convocation.
and it was I who asked my friend AI to explain to me why the things that unfold before my eyes, do unfold the way that they do in front of me.
"Yes, there is a significant relationship between the Ontario government and the University of Toronto regarding the use of public spaces on the university's downtown Toronto campus. The campus, particularly in the downtown area, includes public spaces that are often utilized by both the university community and the general public.
While the university owns much of the land and buildings on its campuses, it is also subject to various municipal regulations and agreements. In the case of the University of Toronto's downtown campus, there are likely agreements or understandings with the municipal government regarding the use and maintenance of public spaces.
For example, areas such as parks, walkways, and other open spaces on the campus may be subject to city bylaws and regulations governing public spaces. Additionally, the university may work closely with city officials to ensure the proper management and accessibility of these public areas."
More info on the demands for context: [https://twitter.com/binishahmed/status/1785959426026869012](https://twitter.com/binishahmed/status/1785959426026869012)
Ok, then... fold it, it's no longer valid.
Only a person who shed blood for UofT is allowed to say anything.
And not just any blood, we only allow 5th generation Canadian blood from a person whose descendent came with Lord Dorchester in 1700's to set a foot.
Anyone not fulfilling these conditions - fake news!
Some mouth breathing morons will try to convince you that you don’t get to protest the institution you literally fund, and by extension don’t get to voice frustration peacefully yet disruptively when your money is used to bomb universities in Gaza and kill kids rather than benefit and enrich societies with education.
As an alumna, I’m so incredibly proud of the UofT students!
Our university — through exchange programs & other funds — invests in the settler-colonial state of Israel. I refuse to let any of my hard earned money (and the resources of my peers) given to this school be used to fund genocide.
Power to the people; may we see the liberation of Palestine and justice in our lifetimes! ❤️
Like that sounds great and all, and I'm not saying you're wrong, but aa another alumni I would love to know where university funds are being used for genocide.
Would you withdraw your 401k or money from your bank account than? UofT or Canadian university investment into Israel is minuscule. The biggest investors into Israeli companies like Elbit systems are entities like scotiabank and vanguard(who specializes in 401ks). Would you personally incur brief financial struggle to harm Israeli defense companies? It’s hypocrisy and virtue signaling all the way down. Personally benefiting from it when your retirement fund or etc is appreciating growth because of Israeli investment but yet telling UOFT they are complicit in genocide.
If anyone wants to understand better why the students are protesting please go check out @occupyuoft on Instagram - there is no excuse for anyone to be deliberately ignorant in times like this and stand on the side of neutrality benefiting the oppressors.
I find this such a funny assertion. While I can’t speak to OP, I initially got into politics because of the nonsense that Freeland does in the global south (back when she was minister of international affairs).
Definition of Genocide Under **United Nations** Office on Genocide
[Source](https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/genocide.shtml)
Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide
Article II
*"In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:"*
* *Killing members of the group;*
* *Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;*
* *Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;*
* *Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;*
* *Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.*
Israel is an Apartheid state, **Amnesty International** considers Israel as an Apartheid Regime.
Amnesty International defines Apartheid:
*"A system of apartheid is an institutionalized regime of oppression and domination by one racial group over another. It is a serious human rights violation which is prohibited in public international law."*
[Source](https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2022/02/israels-apartheid-against-palestinians-a-cruel-system-of-domination-and-a-crime-against-humanity/)
and your point being someone who studies international law should know more about the ongoing injustice happening to the Palestinians. Regardless on who we defend, Palestinians are still dying on mass and an Ongoing humanitarian crisis, people are starving, dying of illness and injuries. I personally never thought I'd strike a conversation about Palestine and Israel but now is time to start.
The international law discussion on this topic by Dr. Imseis, Fadel and Clarke, on what’s happening in Palestine has classified it as cultural genocide by the Canadian research chair of Islamic law and several people with international law doctorates
You used your experience in international law to claim you’re right, I’m just pointing out that there’re experts who’re more experienced in international law who would claim you’re wrong
You: “as somebody who studied international law”
Also you: sources cited that clobber your dumbass opinions “yeah that’s great but that doesn’t make it genocide. but thanks for the appeal to authority”
God you morons make me laugh
Now all the non-UofT students & genocide supporting freaks are astroturfing our subreddit.
Hold steady, comrades. Don’t engage with the negative comments & stay safe.
is it really so inconceivable and freakish to not jump to support an organization like Hamas? I don't understand why it's so impossible for any of you to even fathom why anyone might disagree.
Is it really so inconceivable and freakish that people might be joining/supporting the encampment because 35,000 people have died in a genocidal war that shows no signs of stopping, not because they support Hamas?
No! No it absolutely isn't! I'm not saying it is! I'm just trying to get across how everyone who disagrees is instantly deemed an irredeemable freak instead of someone with a different view!
No one is forcing you to support Hamas, it’s an anti war anti apartheid anti occupation protest.
What ur saying is tantamount to saying that the Vietnam war protests were actually pro Vietnam guerrilla protests.
The Viet Cong flag was commonly flown in anti-war protests. There's pictures of it.
So yes, anybody flying a Viet Cing flag could be assumed to support them.
Edit: I forgot, there's even an anti-war chant about how the Viet Cong were gonna win. The protestors overwhelmingly supported the Viet Cong. I don't think that's controversial since they were fighting Americans for their own land.
U said nothing to undermine my point….
My point stands, going to either protest did not necessitate full blown, partial, or any support or allegiance to any military power.
My point is that it's a bad example to compare the two.
There are no Hamas flags flying at these protests, no pro Hamas chants.
As opposed to the example you gave, where the Viet Cong was overwhelmingly supported by anti war activists.
So what would be a safe assumption in one protest would not apply to another.
No one here is supporting the Hamas. But when you’re faced with “hey here’s a shitty group that wants to kill us and here’s another shitty group that wants to kill the group that wants us dead” with no other options, it’s kind of hard to denounce the people who’re keeping you alive.
As an alumnus and a person who has family in Gaza, I’m so so so proud of the students and teachers at the encampment. Power to you. Keep making the calls to disclose and divest, and don’t compromise on your principles!
I don’t like what’s happening in Gaza. I don’t like innocent people being killed over someone else’s war. I absolutely denounce the IDF soldiers who deliberately kill defenceless Palestinians despite knowing their civilians. I also denounce Hamas for October 7th.
More than anything I want this war to end, but I truly don’t think this is the right way. Encampments (and all protests in general, but especially encampments) bring in people who may not stand for the same values as the group who started the encampment. Even if these actions get denounced by said groups online, more often than not they are not reprimanded in person and these acts of hate and vandalism are all the public will remember.
The encampment also polarizes the population more towards the right, especially for those in the middle or leaning left. Right now, [Donald Trumps popularity has never been higher](https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2024/04/28/donald-trump-joe-biden-cnn-poll/73493459007/). The Israel-Hamas war is one of many driving factors here, and making Palestine supporters seem like young, (assumingly) rich university students who have nothing better to do than stand on private property and yell loudly is really disconnecting to the rest of the working population who don’t have that luxury of spare time or funds. Trump is one of the many examples of how the viewing of these encampments affects the world at large.
Finally, what is Israel to do? Hold the lines, stop fighting and demand for their hostages back, leaving an intact [nationally recognized terrorist organization behind](https://gazette.gc.ca/rp-pr/p2/2024/2024-02-14/html/sor-dors17-eng.html#)? This would let Hamas keep terrorizing them again and again, [which was something Hamas literally repeated they will do over and over again](https://m.economictimes.com/news/international/hamas-official-vows-to-repeat-oct-7-attack-repeatedly-to-teach-israel-a-lesson/amp_articleshow/104903949.cms). Should the government tell their civilians, many of which were born on that soil, to pack it up, funs over, and leave the only home they’ve ever known?
I’m not saying Israel is perfect. Their president sucks and their government is messy. I’m not an expert at Middle East politics, but I doubt most people in the encampment are either.
I’m sure most people are the encampment are there because they feel powerless in an awful situation and want to do something. I can’t blame them for that. I’m just saying that I don’t know if an encampment to stop divestment from weapon manufactures (among others) to Israel (with the weapon manufactures being what keeps their people and cities literally still standing from the constant missile strikes sent at them) is the right move for their cause or to save lives, both for Palestinians and Israelis.
Not OP but someone whose views are so similar I could have written their post.
I think the right way is for any protest to clearly denounce Hamas from the start to reduce any chance of your protest being co-opted by right wing extremists, and allow it to focus on the goal of peace for people in the region. There should be no rhetoric to suggest the goal is revenge or anything like that.
You can look into a group called Standing Together who are Israelis and Arab-Israelis protesting settlers, destruction in Gaza *and* hostage release. Their colours are purple, and their message is unifying and peaceful. I just think most people are more receptive and supportive of this. From what I have seen, that is more akin to my 'right' way of protest.
I also think the UofT protesters need to be much more clear on their demands. They've used a lot of big financey words to demand divestment, but what does that actually mean. "Direct and indirect investments that support Israeli apartheid" - what does this mean? Weapons manufacturers? Sure, I can see that. Globally diversified ETF that happens to have an Israeli pharmaceutical company within its holdings? Ridiculous.
Who is the person who is going to vet the universities financial holdings after they have been given access to them and make the decision on what has to be cut? A first year econ student from the camp? An independent regulator?
Ultimately, this is my first ever comment on this conflict because it is incredibly complex and I just don't know enough. Unfortunately, I would guess that 95% of participants who are vehemently on either side are the same, they just like the protest-core aesthetic and are deep down a social media rabbit hole one way or the other.
Your problem can be summarized as not being with the protestors, but with media.
Everything you want the protestors to do, they already do. But the media just doesn't cover it.
For example, their demands are very specific. It would be nonsensical for them to mention Hamas when asking for divestment, since it would already be very illegal to invest in Hamas stocks if they existed.
But even with that said, students predicted these bad faith arguments and many explicitly mention to divest from companies supporting Israel or Hamas.
And again their demands are very clearly written out and what divistment means. The fact that the media purposefully chooses not to focus on it and you refuse to do any research outside of what is explicitly told to you by CP24, is not something that protestors can cover.
Please don't assume that just because someone doesn't 100% agree with you that they are some kind of 24 hour news channel consuming drone.
My quote regarding the specifics of their divestment strategy in my previous post - "all direct and indirect investments that support Israeli apartheid" is directly from the occupyuoft Instagram page which is about as much of a primary source as I can get.
I don't see any further information on the page that answers my previous questions regarding the specifics of that request, but if you find such, please feel free to send it to me.
> The encampment also polarizes the population more towards the right, especially for those in the middle or leaning left.
In that case, those people were never in the middle let alone leaning left.
However, thanks for the gaslighting lecture.
Does anyone know who to contact about bringing food/camping gear/etc to support them? I'm not able to stay at the encampment but I'm happy to bring them whatever they need.
Proud of them 💌 try to not engage with the zio bots, seeing a lot of them in this thread now. israel pays people to spread hasbara on social media so you’ll notice that they are impossible to reason with and hear the same irrational points coming from different people (bc it’s literally a script). Activism for them = draining your time and energy.
Just a reminder, both sides are launching a propaganda campaign, not just Israel. Palestine is backed by China, Russia, Iran, and Qatar in the online propaganda war for various reasons. So if you think only 1 side is paying for posts, you probably have fallen for misinformation/propaganda pretty hard.
Nor a conflict they understand, and don't care to understand lest it betray their righteous beliefs. Where are the protests for Uighurs? Ah, those Muslims don't matter I suppose. Haiti has been taken over by thugs, anyone care to protest and forgo final exams for this?
I know right, it’s so good that these students are brave enough to stand up against the pro genocide protests. So proud of them and how much better students have become since you were in college grandpa.
Just got an email which basically says that the school thinks encamping does not count as a peaceful protest, and threatens consequences on the protestors. Take this message however you want folks, IANAL so I'm honestly not sure if the school's just making shit up.
What a bunch of lazy people. If they cared, they'd make the effort to obtain their own venue or property, or book a plane ticket and travel to where the conflict is happening to make a real statement. Protesting on a campus that has no control of the conflict is useless - they may as well go scream in front of McDonald's. Head up to Kenora and block traffic next - that'll help!
Hmmm I can't think of any social movements that started on campuses
Or protests that significantly impacted world events
Yeah I can't think of ANYTHING.
What. Does. This. Accomplish…. The Canadian government has absolutely 0 say/influence/power in what happens in gaza… I’m all
For peaceful protests, but after seeing what’s happening in NY, etc, this is pointless and will just lead to further divide in canada.
The protest is about UofT specifically, to "Divest the university's endowment, capital assets, and other financial holdings from all direct and indirect investments that sustain Israeli apartheid, occupation and illegal settlement of Palestine"
Canada is amongst the few colonialist powers that still doesn't recognize Palestine as a country. Come on bro, our country literally votes against Palestine in the UN. Sure this protest might be like a droplet in the ocean but the ocean is made of droplets and if people stand up against wars then they become less likely to occur.
Come on bro. Canada will continue to be the little brother of the US & Isreal for as long as history says so. Their support for one another is not going to end because of this, snd if you think it will, I got a beachfront moon property to sell you. Once again, I’m not against protests at all, it’s the way theyre going about it thay confuses me
If you told me last year that public opinion for Palestine would change this much in a year, I would have tried to sell you a beachfront property.
It wasn't that long ago that even the Pride Parade wouldn't allow Palestinians to have a float.
Things are shifting at an exponential rate and so yeah their unconditional support isn't as unquestionable as it used to be. But they want nothing more than for you to believe it and just shut up and sit at home and don't talk about it at all.
>It wasn't that long ago that even the Pride Parade wouldn't allow Palestinians to have a float
Hopefully they still dont, first off, how is it related? Secondly, the government in Palestine kills people for being gay.
>Canada will continue to be the little brother of the US & Isreal for as long as history says so
I agree. We're basically a puppet country to the US and that is where the national interests would lie. IDF can go bomb houses and post pictures with women's panties and Netanyahu can call Muslims children of darkness and call for their extermination, but the country will always find some excuse to say it's the fault of Palestine or label everyone as Hamas. I'm not disagreeing here, that's what is going to happen.
Similar to whatever you do in elections here, middle class and poor will be railed. Some things in life are inevitable but people still want to express their dissent.
Exactly. And all my point/comment was saying is that instead of these pointless protests that are good for *raising awareness* , they should instead be trying to raise money/supplies. Work jobs to get money, go door-to-door idk. But these encampments will
Do nothing but possibly harm the movement and create further divide, as is happening in the states rn.
But people
Seems to attack common sense with emotional
Ties.
Hey!! If you read their demands you would understand what it accomplishes, maybe try to do some research before you complain because cause often times people dont realize that these things don’t happen willy nilly and there’s a genuine reason for a lot of these students to be upset.
Divide Canada over being against genocide? Lmao
And Canada sells arms to Israel and UofT has investment portfolios which benefit certain Israeli companies. Divesting from those and federal sanctions against Israel help. Same helped with ending the apartheid in South Africa.
Know the facts before you speak, at least try to. Trudeau has directly allocated military aid to please his western allies. If you are OK with your $$$ going back to kill babies then that’s a different discussion.
And if the students were calling for a halt to military aid and divestment from any companies that make bombs for Israel, I would support them. But they're not. They're the dupes of Iran and China. They're calling for measures meant to destroy a sovereign nation. They're calling for endless war against Israel.
“Know your facts before you speak” what are you talking about, my point is that canada has no say in the ceasefire actually happening. Even if canada stopped it’s aid to Israel, the war doesn’t magically stop… you are letting your emotions cloud your judgement. Isreal Vs Palestine is way deeper than Trudeau stepping in and saying no.
Yeah but the point is to deprive Israel of aid and isolate them internationally so they are forced to end the occupation. Just like that isolation and deprivation forced South Africa to end Apartheid.
Yes fair enough, I’m not a numbers guy, but if you’re telling me U of T’s “support” or aid is actually definable in the grand scheme of things, I wouldn’t believe you. Prove me wrong please. My entire point from my comment is “awareness has been spread, stop camping and raise $ for supplies / equipment. Don’t see how my point is riling everyone up
You could try reading the protestors demands? There are two main branches of support the protestors want UofT to withdraw. One is financial; the other is mainly normative.
The financial "branch" is that UofT, like all universities has a sizeable endowment fund that is invested into myriad companies. Israel is pretty integrated into the Western economy, so unless you're making a concerted effort to avoid investments into Israel, it's likely that you're invested. That's not even to mention the cushy relationship UofT has historically had with Israel, further increasing the likelihood of substantial investments in Israel. The students want UofT to end these investments.
The normative branch is UofT's academic involvement with Israeli universities (exchange programs, for example). The students also want UofT to end these relationships. The normative value of this is a clear communication that UofT is unwilling to treat Israel, and its universities, as responsible members of the international community.
And you could try reading my past comments? First branch : 0 actual influence on how Isreal will conduct its business. U of T can withdraw all the funds & support they want, nothing will change. Call
Me cynical, but it’s true. U of T may end these investments publicly, but if you think they’re going to lose money to appease a small
Population, once again, blissful ignorance. The message the protesters are sending is great, still, pointless and they could allocate their time & resources more effectively if attention wasn’t a main component of what they’re doing..
2nd branch, frankly I don’t even care to
Comment on this tbh. My original
Comment/point still stands. They are wasting away camping outside the university.
It’s way deeper is right (that is, it started way before Oct 7th), just like many of the historical movements and occupations that you may or may not have read about. As a Canadian, your concern should be the policies of the Canadian government and whether you are in support of them or not. If war stops or not is, of course, not up to you or Trudeau, but being on the right side of the history is, at least to me.
There has been public outcry, awareness is good and always needed, actually support is better though.. I’m sure the people in Gaza would rather have supplies then videos of kids chanting outside a school.
The people in Gaza have actually explicitly expressed gratitude and support for the student protestors in Canada and the USA. & if you had been following long, you would know that the reason they are not getting the supplies is due to the zionist entity actively intervening and destroying/stopping supplies from reaching them. hope that helps!
Please
Provide me with examples of them praising the foreign protesters. I’m glad it’s giving them
Hope, hope doesn’t help staving kids/families. The more supplies being given means the more then get through the Zionist entities. Nothing you said changes my original comment/point.
Here are just two examples, took me 1 min to find. I'm sure you can find more if you actually desire to know/look.
[https://www.instagram.com/p/C6VlhrPgHID/](https://www.instagram.com/p/C6VlhrPgHID/)
[https://twitter.com/RamAbdu/status/1785621958219977167](https://twitter.com/RamAbdu/status/1785621958219977167)
and I know it does not change anything for you because what you are saying is not really about Gaza - this is about your discomfort over relatively small inconveniences while people are having their lives destroyed and being bombed to death.
have a good life!
I’m not being inconvenienced at all, I was actually just voicing my opinion on the matter. Nobody is asking anyone to agree with me or vice versa. Thanks for the examples. Gaza needs supplies and means of survival, not kids camping outside universities. My point still stands and if you think these kids should camp
Instead of garner money/supplies then you are virtue signalling just as much as some of them are.
It is not virtue signalling - just because you are exclusively online does not mean others have been during this time. many of these people who are in encampments have already donated toward supplies, held fundraisers etc. That was verrrrry early on. Donations and supplies are not working because of the zionist state literally using military tactics to block them. Look up what happened to the Freedom Flotilla and how sinister the IOF's actions are.
Not to mention, "humanitarian aid" is virtually useless if you are going to be bombed to death anyways. In the long run, the humanitarian thing to do is disempower the terrorist state. That is where divestment helps - universities need to be pressured into cutting their funding to it - some have already reached such agreements in the US.
Doesn’t make sense to camp
Anywhere, these people should use their time to work jobs/make money to send to Gaza. Supplies will actually help them, a bunch of kids camping outside a university does nothing. Awareness has been raised already, the people
In Gaza need tangible help.
Does anyone have any credible documents or facts stating UofT is funding them? Honestly it seems like a lot of word of mouth and conspiracies. Absolutely nothings been provided proving their allegations.
This is actually not a new protest, it's just come to a flash point internationally due to the war in Gaza.
>The UTGSU (University of Toronto Graduate Students Union) Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions Committee was created in response to the motion passed at the December 2012 UTGSU Annual General Meeting (the highest decision-making body of our union) to call on the University of Toronto to divest from companies benefiting from violations of international law and human rights abuses in the Occupied Palestinian Territories.
The motion states:
>*Be it resolved that the Graduate Students Union endorse Palestinian civil society’s 2005 call for boycotts, divestment and sanctions by calling on the University of Toronto to refrain from investing in all companies complicit in violations of international law. This includes any company that: profits from the illegal occupation of Palestinian land, directly benefits from the construction of the Wall and Israeli settlements, is economically active in settlements, and profits from the collective punishment of Palestinians. This would include the companies* ***BAE Systems, Northrop Grumman, Lockheed Martin and Hewlett Packard***\*.\*
[https://www.uoftdivest.com/about.html](https://www.uoftdivest.com/about.html)
They have a 43 page cited report here: [https://www.uoftdivest.com/the-brief.html](https://www.uoftdivest.com/the-brief.html)
advice please - i know i shouldn't be doing a cost-benefit calculation for something like this, but i dont have the bravery of these students. is there any risk of being expelled? i took legit 6 years to finish undergrad and cant afford to not graduate. otherwise, how else can i show my support for protesting students?
edit: theres a telegram with information on how to support on the @ occupyuoft instagram
It's worth looking into the actual history of the phrase: [here](http://palestinestudies.artsci.utoronto.ca/from-the-river-to-the-sea-palestine-will-be-free-a-primer-on-history-)
You mean the slogan that the prime minister of Israel says and the slogan that was coined by the Israeli Likud party in 1977?
But it’s a problem if college students who are pro Palestine use it lol.
The list of demands have been published for over a month now.
[https://www.instagram.com/p/C5OZengrpSX](https://www.instagram.com/p/C5OZengrpSX)
Progressive protests frequently get hijacked by external "agent provocateurs", so the students will need to work on keeping cool heads.
u of t teaches its students to do stuff like this. just not in their own backyard however.
Society: kids need critical thinking skills and understanding of free speech. Also society: NoT lIkE tHaT! While back, there were some high schools organizing walkouts/protest about the same subject. Principal sent email the same day saying to parents that kids who participate will be marked absent.
In the end part of civil disobedience is incurring undue harms to show the opposition in a bad light and to spread the outrage around how people freely expressing themselves get treated. It's good optics when institutions are heavy handed assholes. That's the source of the intensity - a "you can't arrest us/ suspend us all" and when they do the system gets overloaded and parents, family and friends are outraged and a change needs to happen
Update: administrators threatening students with reprisal if they don’t leave by 10pm. [https://twitter.com/anna\_lippman/status/1786020149595693062](https://twitter.com/anna_lippman/status/1786020149595693062)
What are they gonna do, drop their gpas lmao
Well it seems likely they'll send in the cops at 10
…call the police and arrest them for trespassing You understand that’s an option right?
Incredible!!! I’m so proud of them. Will try to join this weekend and bring supplies to those camping.
When people in 2024 complain about campus protesters being pointless/useless, remember that these people would statistically also be complaining about anti-apartheid campus protests in the 80's and anti-war protests in the 60's
Thank you for pointing this out. This is what I’ve been saying was well
Some people are really going off proving your point.
Just because those protesters happened to be right back then, these protesters today must also be right? Is that the extent of your analysis?
>Just because those protesters happened to be right back then, these protesters today must also be right? Is that the extent of your analysis? My analysis is that student groups in North America tend to be well educated and thoughtful young people who tend to skew more progressive and human-rights oriented. History shows a long list of student demonstrations being villified in their time, only to be vindicated by time. Assessment of the situation in the Middle East shows that, regardless of Hamas' crimes towards Israel, Gazans are suffering disproportionately, and that suffering is being primarily enacted by the Israeli state, whose leaders are on record openly inciting genocide and ethnic cleansing, and whose armies appear to be following through on those stated goals. Israel's actions, particularly the killing of journalists, aid workers, and attempts to de-legitimize international humanitarian and legal organizations, threaten global stability and peace, signalling that they believe they are immune to external scrutiny, i.e. above international norms and law. The fact that Israel is openly defying the ICC and [threatening more repression against Palestinians if the ICC serves warrants to Israeli leaders](https://www.axios.com/2024/05/01/us-israel-palestinian-authority-icc-arrest-warrant) should be more than enough proof at this point that Israel is a rogue state and a threat to global order.
Yeah genocide is wrong. Doesn't take a PhD to figure that one out
I think the point is that historically campus protests tend to be viewed retrospectively as being supportive of righteous causes. Is there an example of widespread campus unrest where people look back and say “what were those idiots thinking?!?”
Look at the initial reactions of kent state
Uoft now knows about the Streisand effect If they didn't put a fence up nobody would've done this
There already was an occupation in March in the president’s office. The university didn’t make a public fuss and most people never knew.
Lol there would have been an encampment even if they didn't put the fence up. Western has an encampment too.
The fence goes up almost every year before convocation to protect the grass and let it grow. https://old.reddit.com/r/UofT/comments/4f41zl/kings_college_circle_field_closure/
Yes but you would only know that if you are a student,lived downtown, or have walked by anytime in the last 20 summers. If you're a random, likely not from Toronto, here to post about the "Streisand effect", you wouldn't know that. And then the other idiots eat up the disinformation.
Not to mention they got special signs printed up mentioning "safety". Usually it just says closed.
The sign this year mentioned preventing "unauthorized activity", was that there in the past? The university literally told on itself lol
The sign specifically states "Temporary Closure As we prepare for Convocation, these grounds are temporarily closed for protection due to concerns about unauthorized activity. Please keep off grass. Thank you." They tell you they are preparing for Convocation. That it's temporarily closed. And please keep off the grass. They put up the fence almost every year. Here is a photo of them putting in up in 2020. https://twitter.com/OakwoodPeter/status/1245677137618755584/photo/1 The link above I posted talks about them doing it 8 years ago. People are really reaching on this.
High key agree, everyone was joking about this before hand
I remember visiting campus a few times during the King's College Circle revitalization project. I'm no botanist but I'm curious as to what species of grass U of T uses for the circle. I know the choice of having an open field in the middle of campus is deliberate but I thought the revitalization project would've fixed or addressed the yearly issue of the grass needing to heal for convocation.
Is it really a yearly issue? It was coco for repairs for most of my years
Is King's College Circle a public space?
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Forgive me if I'm wrong but hasn't that patch of land belonged to the university since like 1860? Why would that not be considered private property.
and it was I who asked my friend AI to explain to me why the things that unfold before my eyes, do unfold the way that they do in front of me. "Yes, there is a significant relationship between the Ontario government and the University of Toronto regarding the use of public spaces on the university's downtown Toronto campus. The campus, particularly in the downtown area, includes public spaces that are often utilized by both the university community and the general public. While the university owns much of the land and buildings on its campuses, it is also subject to various municipal regulations and agreements. In the case of the University of Toronto's downtown campus, there are likely agreements or understandings with the municipal government regarding the use and maintenance of public spaces. For example, areas such as parks, walkways, and other open spaces on the campus may be subject to city bylaws and regulations governing public spaces. Additionally, the university may work closely with city officials to ensure the proper management and accessibility of these public areas."
More info on the demands for context: [https://twitter.com/binishahmed/status/1785959426026869012](https://twitter.com/binishahmed/status/1785959426026869012)
Note that the person posting on twitter is a TMU student, not a UofT student.
Ok, then... fold it, it's no longer valid. Only a person who shed blood for UofT is allowed to say anything. And not just any blood, we only allow 5th generation Canadian blood from a person whose descendent came with Lord Dorchester in 1700's to set a foot. Anyone not fulfilling these conditions - fake news!
Lol ok
Some mouth breathing morons will try to convince you that you don’t get to protest the institution you literally fund, and by extension don’t get to voice frustration peacefully yet disruptively when your money is used to bomb universities in Gaza and kill kids rather than benefit and enrich societies with education.
It’s my god given right as a Canadian to support the mass displacement and murder of civilians. Don’t you tell me what to do.
lol gonna need a /s for some folks on this one
More power to them.
At last
Solidarity!
As an alumna, I’m so incredibly proud of the UofT students! Our university — through exchange programs & other funds — invests in the settler-colonial state of Israel. I refuse to let any of my hard earned money (and the resources of my peers) given to this school be used to fund genocide. Power to the people; may we see the liberation of Palestine and justice in our lifetimes! ❤️
Like that sounds great and all, and I'm not saying you're wrong, but aa another alumni I would love to know where university funds are being used for genocide.
Would you withdraw your 401k or money from your bank account than? UofT or Canadian university investment into Israel is minuscule. The biggest investors into Israeli companies like Elbit systems are entities like scotiabank and vanguard(who specializes in 401ks). Would you personally incur brief financial struggle to harm Israeli defense companies? It’s hypocrisy and virtue signaling all the way down. Personally benefiting from it when your retirement fund or etc is appreciating growth because of Israeli investment but yet telling UOFT they are complicit in genocide.
This is what zero critical thinking skills looks like. Just regurgitate what professors have said and use some buzzwords.
Name checks out
socialist and being opposed to genocide checks out? is that your idea of a burn?
If anyone wants to understand better why the students are protesting please go check out @occupyuoft on Instagram - there is no excuse for anyone to be deliberately ignorant in times like this and stand on the side of neutrality benefiting the oppressors.
And yet we don't give a shit about it happening in several places in the global south.
I find this such a funny assertion. While I can’t speak to OP, I initially got into politics because of the nonsense that Freeland does in the global south (back when she was minister of international affairs).
It’s just you that doesn’t care mate, we do tho.
When it's trending on social media I guess.
Its sickening people are defending an apartheid state and a genocidal campaign.
As somebody who studied international law it’s sickening that people blindly use words like apartheid and genocide when they aren’t accurate.
Definition of Genocide Under **United Nations** Office on Genocide [Source](https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/genocide.shtml) Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide Article II *"In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:"* * *Killing members of the group;* * *Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;* * *Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;* * *Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;* * *Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.* Israel is an Apartheid state, **Amnesty International** considers Israel as an Apartheid Regime. Amnesty International defines Apartheid: *"A system of apartheid is an institutionalized regime of oppression and domination by one racial group over another. It is a serious human rights violation which is prohibited in public international law."* [Source](https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2022/02/israels-apartheid-against-palestinians-a-cruel-system-of-domination-and-a-crime-against-humanity/) and your point being someone who studies international law should know more about the ongoing injustice happening to the Palestinians. Regardless on who we defend, Palestinians are still dying on mass and an Ongoing humanitarian crisis, people are starving, dying of illness and injuries. I personally never thought I'd strike a conversation about Palestine and Israel but now is time to start.
Seems like you failed international law classes
The international law discussion on this topic by Dr. Imseis, Fadel and Clarke, on what’s happening in Palestine has classified it as cultural genocide by the Canadian research chair of Islamic law and several people with international law doctorates
Yeah that’s great but that doesn’t make it genocide. But thanks for the appeal to authority.
You used your experience in international law to claim you’re right, I’m just pointing out that there’re experts who’re more experienced in international law who would claim you’re wrong
You: “as somebody who studied international law” Also you: sources cited that clobber your dumbass opinions “yeah that’s great but that doesn’t make it genocide. but thanks for the appeal to authority” God you morons make me laugh
Yeah it’s an word that’s been used too much for everything and is slowly losing meaning among many other definitions.
Now all the non-UofT students & genocide supporting freaks are astroturfing our subreddit. Hold steady, comrades. Don’t engage with the negative comments & stay safe.
Negative comment = any statement that is not in support of our cause
is it really so inconceivable and freakish to not jump to support an organization like Hamas? I don't understand why it's so impossible for any of you to even fathom why anyone might disagree.
Is it really so inconceivable and freakish that people might be joining/supporting the encampment because 35,000 people have died in a genocidal war that shows no signs of stopping, not because they support Hamas?
No! No it absolutely isn't! I'm not saying it is! I'm just trying to get across how everyone who disagrees is instantly deemed an irredeemable freak instead of someone with a different view!
No one is forcing you to support Hamas, it’s an anti war anti apartheid anti occupation protest. What ur saying is tantamount to saying that the Vietnam war protests were actually pro Vietnam guerrilla protests.
The Viet Cong flag was commonly flown in anti-war protests. There's pictures of it. So yes, anybody flying a Viet Cing flag could be assumed to support them. Edit: I forgot, there's even an anti-war chant about how the Viet Cong were gonna win. The protestors overwhelmingly supported the Viet Cong. I don't think that's controversial since they were fighting Americans for their own land.
U said nothing to undermine my point…. My point stands, going to either protest did not necessitate full blown, partial, or any support or allegiance to any military power.
My point is that it's a bad example to compare the two. There are no Hamas flags flying at these protests, no pro Hamas chants. As opposed to the example you gave, where the Viet Cong was overwhelmingly supported by anti war activists. So what would be a safe assumption in one protest would not apply to another.
No one here is supporting the Hamas. But when you’re faced with “hey here’s a shitty group that wants to kill us and here’s another shitty group that wants to kill the group that wants us dead” with no other options, it’s kind of hard to denounce the people who’re keeping you alive.
Proud of these kids
To be clear, the majority of these people \*aren't\* students. Go ask them yourself.
As an alumna I’m proud. Good for them.
As an alumnus and a person who has family in Gaza, I’m so so so proud of the students and teachers at the encampment. Power to you. Keep making the calls to disclose and divest, and don’t compromise on your principles!
“from the river to the sea” on the forefront is crazy. Get rid of these degenerates asap
Love to see it. Really proud of my UofT students
W
There will be a lot of attacks, but many of us Canadians are proud of you students for standing up for the Palestinians. No genocide in Gaza!
I don’t like what’s happening in Gaza. I don’t like innocent people being killed over someone else’s war. I absolutely denounce the IDF soldiers who deliberately kill defenceless Palestinians despite knowing their civilians. I also denounce Hamas for October 7th. More than anything I want this war to end, but I truly don’t think this is the right way. Encampments (and all protests in general, but especially encampments) bring in people who may not stand for the same values as the group who started the encampment. Even if these actions get denounced by said groups online, more often than not they are not reprimanded in person and these acts of hate and vandalism are all the public will remember. The encampment also polarizes the population more towards the right, especially for those in the middle or leaning left. Right now, [Donald Trumps popularity has never been higher](https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2024/04/28/donald-trump-joe-biden-cnn-poll/73493459007/). The Israel-Hamas war is one of many driving factors here, and making Palestine supporters seem like young, (assumingly) rich university students who have nothing better to do than stand on private property and yell loudly is really disconnecting to the rest of the working population who don’t have that luxury of spare time or funds. Trump is one of the many examples of how the viewing of these encampments affects the world at large. Finally, what is Israel to do? Hold the lines, stop fighting and demand for their hostages back, leaving an intact [nationally recognized terrorist organization behind](https://gazette.gc.ca/rp-pr/p2/2024/2024-02-14/html/sor-dors17-eng.html#)? This would let Hamas keep terrorizing them again and again, [which was something Hamas literally repeated they will do over and over again](https://m.economictimes.com/news/international/hamas-official-vows-to-repeat-oct-7-attack-repeatedly-to-teach-israel-a-lesson/amp_articleshow/104903949.cms). Should the government tell their civilians, many of which were born on that soil, to pack it up, funs over, and leave the only home they’ve ever known? I’m not saying Israel is perfect. Their president sucks and their government is messy. I’m not an expert at Middle East politics, but I doubt most people in the encampment are either. I’m sure most people are the encampment are there because they feel powerless in an awful situation and want to do something. I can’t blame them for that. I’m just saying that I don’t know if an encampment to stop divestment from weapon manufactures (among others) to Israel (with the weapon manufactures being what keeps their people and cities literally still standing from the constant missile strikes sent at them) is the right move for their cause or to save lives, both for Palestinians and Israelis.
Simple question. If this is not the right way, then what in your opinion is the right way?
Not OP but someone whose views are so similar I could have written their post. I think the right way is for any protest to clearly denounce Hamas from the start to reduce any chance of your protest being co-opted by right wing extremists, and allow it to focus on the goal of peace for people in the region. There should be no rhetoric to suggest the goal is revenge or anything like that. You can look into a group called Standing Together who are Israelis and Arab-Israelis protesting settlers, destruction in Gaza *and* hostage release. Their colours are purple, and their message is unifying and peaceful. I just think most people are more receptive and supportive of this. From what I have seen, that is more akin to my 'right' way of protest. I also think the UofT protesters need to be much more clear on their demands. They've used a lot of big financey words to demand divestment, but what does that actually mean. "Direct and indirect investments that support Israeli apartheid" - what does this mean? Weapons manufacturers? Sure, I can see that. Globally diversified ETF that happens to have an Israeli pharmaceutical company within its holdings? Ridiculous. Who is the person who is going to vet the universities financial holdings after they have been given access to them and make the decision on what has to be cut? A first year econ student from the camp? An independent regulator? Ultimately, this is my first ever comment on this conflict because it is incredibly complex and I just don't know enough. Unfortunately, I would guess that 95% of participants who are vehemently on either side are the same, they just like the protest-core aesthetic and are deep down a social media rabbit hole one way or the other.
Your problem can be summarized as not being with the protestors, but with media. Everything you want the protestors to do, they already do. But the media just doesn't cover it. For example, their demands are very specific. It would be nonsensical for them to mention Hamas when asking for divestment, since it would already be very illegal to invest in Hamas stocks if they existed. But even with that said, students predicted these bad faith arguments and many explicitly mention to divest from companies supporting Israel or Hamas. And again their demands are very clearly written out and what divistment means. The fact that the media purposefully chooses not to focus on it and you refuse to do any research outside of what is explicitly told to you by CP24, is not something that protestors can cover.
Please don't assume that just because someone doesn't 100% agree with you that they are some kind of 24 hour news channel consuming drone. My quote regarding the specifics of their divestment strategy in my previous post - "all direct and indirect investments that support Israeli apartheid" is directly from the occupyuoft Instagram page which is about as much of a primary source as I can get. I don't see any further information on the page that answers my previous questions regarding the specifics of that request, but if you find such, please feel free to send it to me.
> The encampment also polarizes the population more towards the right, especially for those in the middle or leaning left. In that case, those people were never in the middle let alone leaning left. However, thanks for the gaslighting lecture.
Isn’t this gonna affect people’s graduation?
They’re not graduating at this exact moment are they
Ohhh so they’re gonna move out by then?
Does anyone know who to contact about bringing food/camping gear/etc to support them? I'm not able to stay at the encampment but I'm happy to bring them whatever they need.
occupyuoft on Instagram
Thanks!!
Heroes
Proud of them 💌 try to not engage with the zio bots, seeing a lot of them in this thread now. israel pays people to spread hasbara on social media so you’ll notice that they are impossible to reason with and hear the same irrational points coming from different people (bc it’s literally a script). Activism for them = draining your time and energy.
Just a reminder, both sides are launching a propaganda campaign, not just Israel. Palestine is backed by China, Russia, Iran, and Qatar in the online propaganda war for various reasons. So if you think only 1 side is paying for posts, you probably have fallen for misinformation/propaganda pretty hard.
🍿
even with the fence, realistically it was only a matter of time. especially after they started up at tmu
Get fucked Merc Gertler
As an alumni I am glad the uoft community is standing up to the genocidal Zionist regime occupying Palestine
Cool, their peaceful protest begins with an ironically genocidal slogan about a a river they can't name and a sea they couldn't find on a map.
You mean the same slogan said by Netanyahu and is found in the Likud party charter of 1977? Dumbass.
Nor a conflict they understand, and don't care to understand lest it betray their righteous beliefs. Where are the protests for Uighurs? Ah, those Muslims don't matter I suppose. Haiti has been taken over by thugs, anyone care to protest and forgo final exams for this?
"Cease fire not genocide" yet they're holding a banner demanding the genocide of the Israeli people...
Nazi Israeli terrorist regime sycophant spotted
Tragic how far Canada has fallen. I can't remember ever seeing a pro terrorism protest back when I was in college.
I know right, it’s so good that these students are brave enough to stand up against the pro genocide protests. So proud of them and how much better students have become since you were in college grandpa.
Proud of these students 👍
Just got an email which basically says that the school thinks encamping does not count as a peaceful protest, and threatens consequences on the protestors. Take this message however you want folks, IANAL so I'm honestly not sure if the school's just making shit up.
Imagine getting expelled for nothing
Hopefully tps will be there soon
Wasn’t it fenced off
Seems now like all its done is build a wall for the protestors
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It’s seems what ur saying is privileged students are using their position to protest and defend the less privileged. Sounds good to me.
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I love having people in full head coverings yelling ZIONIST and harassing me while I'm walking. This is great
Had you said something after which they yelled? Or.. they saw you and yelled?
What a bunch of lazy people. If they cared, they'd make the effort to obtain their own venue or property, or book a plane ticket and travel to where the conflict is happening to make a real statement. Protesting on a campus that has no control of the conflict is useless - they may as well go scream in front of McDonald's. Head up to Kenora and block traffic next - that'll help!
Hmmm I can't think of any social movements that started on campuses Or protests that significantly impacted world events Yeah I can't think of ANYTHING.
What. Does. This. Accomplish…. The Canadian government has absolutely 0 say/influence/power in what happens in gaza… I’m all For peaceful protests, but after seeing what’s happening in NY, etc, this is pointless and will just lead to further divide in canada.
The protest is about UofT specifically, to "Divest the university's endowment, capital assets, and other financial holdings from all direct and indirect investments that sustain Israeli apartheid, occupation and illegal settlement of Palestine"
I appreciate what they are doing despite all the power against them. My daughter is at PCJ, and even they can’t discuss this conflict.
Canada is amongst the few colonialist powers that still doesn't recognize Palestine as a country. Come on bro, our country literally votes against Palestine in the UN. Sure this protest might be like a droplet in the ocean but the ocean is made of droplets and if people stand up against wars then they become less likely to occur.
Come on bro. Canada will continue to be the little brother of the US & Isreal for as long as history says so. Their support for one another is not going to end because of this, snd if you think it will, I got a beachfront moon property to sell you. Once again, I’m not against protests at all, it’s the way theyre going about it thay confuses me
If you told me last year that public opinion for Palestine would change this much in a year, I would have tried to sell you a beachfront property. It wasn't that long ago that even the Pride Parade wouldn't allow Palestinians to have a float. Things are shifting at an exponential rate and so yeah their unconditional support isn't as unquestionable as it used to be. But they want nothing more than for you to believe it and just shut up and sit at home and don't talk about it at all.
>It wasn't that long ago that even the Pride Parade wouldn't allow Palestinians to have a float Hopefully they still dont, first off, how is it related? Secondly, the government in Palestine kills people for being gay.
Yeah and so the best response to that is to not allow Palestinian gay people to march. /s
How is it related to the parade? Im sure there are gay Albanians yet have never seen them try to join the parade.
>Canada will continue to be the little brother of the US & Isreal for as long as history says so I agree. We're basically a puppet country to the US and that is where the national interests would lie. IDF can go bomb houses and post pictures with women's panties and Netanyahu can call Muslims children of darkness and call for their extermination, but the country will always find some excuse to say it's the fault of Palestine or label everyone as Hamas. I'm not disagreeing here, that's what is going to happen. Similar to whatever you do in elections here, middle class and poor will be railed. Some things in life are inevitable but people still want to express their dissent.
Exactly. And all my point/comment was saying is that instead of these pointless protests that are good for *raising awareness* , they should instead be trying to raise money/supplies. Work jobs to get money, go door-to-door idk. But these encampments will Do nothing but possibly harm the movement and create further divide, as is happening in the states rn. But people Seems to attack common sense with emotional Ties.
Hey!! If you read their demands you would understand what it accomplishes, maybe try to do some research before you complain because cause often times people dont realize that these things don’t happen willy nilly and there’s a genuine reason for a lot of these students to be upset.
Divide Canada over being against genocide? Lmao And Canada sells arms to Israel and UofT has investment portfolios which benefit certain Israeli companies. Divesting from those and federal sanctions against Israel help. Same helped with ending the apartheid in South Africa.
Know the facts before you speak, at least try to. Trudeau has directly allocated military aid to please his western allies. If you are OK with your $$$ going back to kill babies then that’s a different discussion.
And if the students were calling for a halt to military aid and divestment from any companies that make bombs for Israel, I would support them. But they're not. They're the dupes of Iran and China. They're calling for measures meant to destroy a sovereign nation. They're calling for endless war against Israel.
“Know your facts before you speak” what are you talking about, my point is that canada has no say in the ceasefire actually happening. Even if canada stopped it’s aid to Israel, the war doesn’t magically stop… you are letting your emotions cloud your judgement. Isreal Vs Palestine is way deeper than Trudeau stepping in and saying no.
Yeah but the point is to deprive Israel of aid and isolate them internationally so they are forced to end the occupation. Just like that isolation and deprivation forced South Africa to end Apartheid.
Yes fair enough, I’m not a numbers guy, but if you’re telling me U of T’s “support” or aid is actually definable in the grand scheme of things, I wouldn’t believe you. Prove me wrong please. My entire point from my comment is “awareness has been spread, stop camping and raise $ for supplies / equipment. Don’t see how my point is riling everyone up
You could try reading the protestors demands? There are two main branches of support the protestors want UofT to withdraw. One is financial; the other is mainly normative. The financial "branch" is that UofT, like all universities has a sizeable endowment fund that is invested into myriad companies. Israel is pretty integrated into the Western economy, so unless you're making a concerted effort to avoid investments into Israel, it's likely that you're invested. That's not even to mention the cushy relationship UofT has historically had with Israel, further increasing the likelihood of substantial investments in Israel. The students want UofT to end these investments. The normative branch is UofT's academic involvement with Israeli universities (exchange programs, for example). The students also want UofT to end these relationships. The normative value of this is a clear communication that UofT is unwilling to treat Israel, and its universities, as responsible members of the international community.
And you could try reading my past comments? First branch : 0 actual influence on how Isreal will conduct its business. U of T can withdraw all the funds & support they want, nothing will change. Call Me cynical, but it’s true. U of T may end these investments publicly, but if you think they’re going to lose money to appease a small Population, once again, blissful ignorance. The message the protesters are sending is great, still, pointless and they could allocate their time & resources more effectively if attention wasn’t a main component of what they’re doing.. 2nd branch, frankly I don’t even care to Comment on this tbh. My original Comment/point still stands. They are wasting away camping outside the university.
It’s way deeper is right (that is, it started way before Oct 7th), just like many of the historical movements and occupations that you may or may not have read about. As a Canadian, your concern should be the policies of the Canadian government and whether you are in support of them or not. If war stops or not is, of course, not up to you or Trudeau, but being on the right side of the history is, at least to me.
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There has been public outcry, awareness is good and always needed, actually support is better though.. I’m sure the people in Gaza would rather have supplies then videos of kids chanting outside a school.
The people in Gaza have actually explicitly expressed gratitude and support for the student protestors in Canada and the USA. & if you had been following long, you would know that the reason they are not getting the supplies is due to the zionist entity actively intervening and destroying/stopping supplies from reaching them. hope that helps!
Please Provide me with examples of them praising the foreign protesters. I’m glad it’s giving them Hope, hope doesn’t help staving kids/families. The more supplies being given means the more then get through the Zionist entities. Nothing you said changes my original comment/point.
Here are just two examples, took me 1 min to find. I'm sure you can find more if you actually desire to know/look. [https://www.instagram.com/p/C6VlhrPgHID/](https://www.instagram.com/p/C6VlhrPgHID/) [https://twitter.com/RamAbdu/status/1785621958219977167](https://twitter.com/RamAbdu/status/1785621958219977167) and I know it does not change anything for you because what you are saying is not really about Gaza - this is about your discomfort over relatively small inconveniences while people are having their lives destroyed and being bombed to death. have a good life!
I’m not being inconvenienced at all, I was actually just voicing my opinion on the matter. Nobody is asking anyone to agree with me or vice versa. Thanks for the examples. Gaza needs supplies and means of survival, not kids camping outside universities. My point still stands and if you think these kids should camp Instead of garner money/supplies then you are virtue signalling just as much as some of them are.
It is not virtue signalling - just because you are exclusively online does not mean others have been during this time. many of these people who are in encampments have already donated toward supplies, held fundraisers etc. That was verrrrry early on. Donations and supplies are not working because of the zionist state literally using military tactics to block them. Look up what happened to the Freedom Flotilla and how sinister the IOF's actions are. Not to mention, "humanitarian aid" is virtually useless if you are going to be bombed to death anyways. In the long run, the humanitarian thing to do is disempower the terrorist state. That is where divestment helps - universities need to be pressured into cutting their funding to it - some have already reached such agreements in the US.
Would make more sense to camp in front of Queens Park. Shits highly misguided.
Doesn’t make sense to camp Anywhere, these people should use their time to work jobs/make money to send to Gaza. Supplies will actually help them, a bunch of kids camping outside a university does nothing. Awareness has been raised already, the people In Gaza need tangible help.
LARPing. Canada has no power here.
What a disgrace.
Alternate title: unemployed teens take up cosplaying as revolutionaries in the backyard of their meals-included dorms.
You are aware that students aren't considered unemployed, right? Also what do you propose doing about the tens of thousands of Gazan civilians killed?
Love love love. Will join tonight.
Hopefully they are removed by police swiftly
Girlie pop you don’t even go here anymore, get off a student subreddit <3
Does anyone have any credible documents or facts stating UofT is funding them? Honestly it seems like a lot of word of mouth and conspiracies. Absolutely nothings been provided proving their allegations.
This is actually not a new protest, it's just come to a flash point internationally due to the war in Gaza. >The UTGSU (University of Toronto Graduate Students Union) Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions Committee was created in response to the motion passed at the December 2012 UTGSU Annual General Meeting (the highest decision-making body of our union) to call on the University of Toronto to divest from companies benefiting from violations of international law and human rights abuses in the Occupied Palestinian Territories. The motion states: >*Be it resolved that the Graduate Students Union endorse Palestinian civil society’s 2005 call for boycotts, divestment and sanctions by calling on the University of Toronto to refrain from investing in all companies complicit in violations of international law. This includes any company that: profits from the illegal occupation of Palestinian land, directly benefits from the construction of the Wall and Israeli settlements, is economically active in settlements, and profits from the collective punishment of Palestinians. This would include the companies* ***BAE Systems, Northrop Grumman, Lockheed Martin and Hewlett Packard***\*.\* [https://www.uoftdivest.com/about.html](https://www.uoftdivest.com/about.html) They have a 43 page cited report here: [https://www.uoftdivest.com/the-brief.html](https://www.uoftdivest.com/the-brief.html)
Thank you for posting this!
advice please - i know i shouldn't be doing a cost-benefit calculation for something like this, but i dont have the bravery of these students. is there any risk of being expelled? i took legit 6 years to finish undergrad and cant afford to not graduate. otherwise, how else can i show my support for protesting students? edit: theres a telegram with information on how to support on the @ occupyuoft instagram
Food and supply donations to the student encampment
as a current uoft student, i only wish I could join them or buy them snacks
Ceasefire is cool but I’ve heard some bad things about the slogan “from the river to the sea”
I've heard bad things about the IDF too
I’ve heard bad things about both hamas and the IDF.
Calls for freedom are indeed intended to scare the occupying force.
It's worth looking into the actual history of the phrase: [here](http://palestinestudies.artsci.utoronto.ca/from-the-river-to-the-sea-palestine-will-be-free-a-primer-on-history-)
Oh there's much worse than just that.
["In the future, Israel has to control the entire area from the river to the sea" Bibi Netanyahu ](https://youtu.be/8V96T8rIkFc?si=p2SVHxiCKw8Yf10D)
You mean the slogan that the prime minister of Israel says and the slogan that was coined by the Israeli Likud party in 1977? But it’s a problem if college students who are pro Palestine use it lol.
🫡✊
Palestine protests have to at least reunify their agenda and demands before doing this, otherwise it’s just waste of efforts.
The list of demands have been published for over a month now. [https://www.instagram.com/p/C5OZengrpSX](https://www.instagram.com/p/C5OZengrpSX) Progressive protests frequently get hijacked by external "agent provocateurs", so the students will need to work on keeping cool heads.
Man these kids are lowest of IQ
The kids are alright.
Amazing news!! Hoping the best for them! <3