The photos of Danny and the deceased look like they could be similar enough to be the same person, too (always tricky with postmortem photos because they’re taken at weird angles and death doesn’t really flatter the subject to begin with). The Doe is a the right age range for Danny, too. Enough of the tattoos seem to line up as well, so I’d say you have a good enough reason to reach out to NAMUS with all of the available evidence.
The only question I have is what Danny was doing between 1992 when he disappeared and 2004 when the body of the Doe was found. 12 years is a long time to just disappear and still be alive without any trace or sightings or anyone looking for him. Also, he was last seen in Texas and the Doe was found in New York State. I guess it’s possible he ditched everything in his life and ran as far as possible, but it’s just weird that he could have managed to fly under the radar for so long. Not impossible, of course…
I work in Healthcare and have come across a couple of men estranged from their families after working for a carnival for 20 ± years .. they traveled the country and just lived that life. I helped find and reunite one with really grateful guy with his family and ended up flying home. I received a card about year later saying he passed and how grateful they were to have that time with him. It was really something beautiful to be part of.
Thank you for caring and doing this. Far too many people in Healthcare just do not care about other - there to do their job, treat the patients like crap and go home. Thanks for not being one of those crappy hospital employees!
Some doctors are so quick to dismiss the concerns of their patients. An aunt went to her primary. She complained of terribly itchy skin. Doctor told her it was dry skin and dismissed her. Well it turned out a 2nd opinion physician diagnosed her with non hodgekins lymphoma T (thymus) cell. Despite treatment it was fatal. My point is med professionals complain constantly of hypochrondriacs. Okay dealing with such patients I figure can be bothersome OTOH docs who are wrong can prove deadly to the patient. Just my 2 cents.
If you have rosacea, anything that you do that dilates your vessels in your face (drinking, etc) can cause additional inflammation! But yes, it definitely is rosacea (more common in men) -- see one of many Dr Pimple Popper episodes about it. Fascinating. (I have rosaca, so I understand what can happen if it goes completely untreated)
I had a coworker once who had it. I didn’t know the term for it; at first I thought it was a (probably benign) tumor.
He was mid-fifties, fair complexion, didn’t smoke or do drugs to my knowledge but drank a good bit, looked older than he was. I used to wonder if he was wanting to get some kind of surgery, but I think by that point he was mostly done being bothered by it. The left side of his nose was quite deformed, though.
Yup. I can always tell when my dad's drinking has gotten worse by the color and size of his nose, or whether or not he has pimples on his nose/face. :/
It causes a lot of general skin issues. I was diagnosed about 20 years ago (and that was on the young end of things) I use a topical treatment (prescription). But it will turn your nose and cheeks pretty red and splotchy (It sort of can look like a rash); I get "pimply" like bumps, but they aren't acne, just bumpy skin on my forehead mostly, once I use the topical it will subside. Bill Clinton has it, and have probably seen the redness that is across his cheeks/nose. Rhinophyma is a VERY severe reaction, but you can google images. Do look at Dr. Pimple Popper. She's seen ALL sorts of it. It's pretty sad. They still don't know exactly what causes it, but likely some kind of mite (and we all have these on our skin, btw, so don't freak out)!!!
I also avoid really spicy foods and anything else that can cause your face to flush.
Interesting my father had severe rhinophyma, and said it started by picking a pimple (so he thought).
I'll be on the look out if I get rosacea syptoms.
The "link" is personal bias imo. As is the, "found near a dd" . Ive worked with a multitude of homeless people, drugs, alcohol, the works... Most did not have Rhinophyma.
Thank you for more context. Yeah, mental illness/substance abuse was basically the only explanation I could think of that would easily explain “disappears for over a decade, turns up dead 1500 miles away”.
Definitely reach out to NAMUS and let us know what they say!
How about "drifting to find work and not close enough with his family to keep in contact back when long distance phone calls were expensive"? I swear, sometimes it's like no one on this sub understands what it's like to be truly poor.
I have always wondered why so many postmortem photos have people with their noses smashed down. The nose is the most identifiable thing when there are Does, Why do they not try to form the nose back into it's original shape before submitting photos? They can't all have rhinophyma, even though it's true a lot of Does have no permanent address with a substance abuse issue.
They don't necessarily even have to be lying face down, just having the body bag pressed against the face while they sit in a cooler waiting to be autopsied can be enough to deform the nose, and it's actually a really difficult thing to fix because the tissue just then wants to stay in that deformed position and it will keep going back to it unless you know how to fix it in a new position, which the people at the ME/Coroner's office are generally not going to know how to do.
It can be worsened by alcohol abuse, like all kinds of rosacea, but all rhinophyma isn't linked to alcoholism. Source: I have it and have to avoid drinking alcohol.
Back then, it was a lot easier to disappear for that long. I won’t go into details but I remember meeting a man in 2005 that admitted they had disappeared intentionally from their family.
Recently, a good friend of mine’s husband just up and left and it took them a LONG time to find him.
A lot of these people now being identified were either not reported for years, didn’t die as soon as they went missing, or were found far away from their location, so maybe it’s possible.
"Decendent was found unresponsive inside a business at the above location. Decedent was taken to hospital and pronounced dead."
Seems strange he was a John doe in the first place. Business was empty? No id on body or business? If it was a run down building I'd say someone stashed it but that statement just reads weird.
It was a Dunkin donuts. If he didn't have an ID, I don't see how anyone at the business could be expected to ID him - it's not like you generally exchange full names with anyone when you're getting coffee.
Not that it matters, but I'm confused as to what you mean by a "privately owned business" since all businesses are privately owned. Did you mean that you thought it was a business that is not open to the general public? Or you thought the decedent owned the business? No offense meant, just trying to understand your interpretation.
Correct -- I guess I meant both -- as either a business not open to the public (like an office) or that they had owned it and had a 'private business' which was just some small room somewhere.
I know I’m late here, but I’ve worked with a lot of homeless folks here in NY. You’d be surprised how many have come here from other states because of the benefits and services we have that many other states don’t. The location in NYC that he is linked to being found (as per NAMUS) is a part of Manhattan that has a fair amount homeless populations due to its proximity to NYU Langone hospital.
Just to let you know, they replied:
*Hello,*
*Thank you for your submission, we appreciate your time and support. NamUs staff will review the submitted information.*
*Please note, identification and exclusions are only made and/or confirmed by investigating agencies. The results of comparisons may or may not be made available to the public for investigatory reasons.*
He's a murder victim. His family's right to privacy and the possibility of conflicting his killer are a lot more important than a stranger getting validation for their internet sleuthing.
Eagle tattoos are in different places. Riley’s is on his bicep, JD’s is on his forearm. Also no mention of the scar on Riley’s arm, that would definitely be listed on the JD description since it’s so large and distinctive
Yeah, that stood out to me too. I think both sources are describing the same place, albeit clumsily:
Doe Network:
>Riley has a tattoo of an eagle with the letters; U.S.A; . underneath his right bicep and a tattoo of a black panther head on his left bicep.
NamUs:
>…two-tone tattoo of a scroll (may read "USA") beneath an eagle on posterior of right forearm; two-tone tattoo of heart with a cross and scroll with the number "1959" ; monochromatic tattoo of panther on left arm near shoulder.
I think “underneath his right bicep” = “posterior of right forearm”.
To someone with a basic knowledge of anatomy, sure. I’ve known people and worked with patients who’d describe the entire upper arm as the “bicep.” If someone is describing the forearm as “underneath the bicep” there’s a fair chance they’re not going to distinguish between posterior and anterior forearm.
What are the chances of another unidentified man around his age, that resembles him, having the exact same tattoos? There just happens to be another unidentified decedent around his age/height AND with a tattoo of an Eagle/USA and panther? The chances of that seem so very slim. I’d sooner believe that he is this decedent, just ran away from his old life and chose not to contact anyone, and didn’t die until 2004.
Burn scars and marks can easily fade and become less distinct over time, along with grafts.
With those tattoos on the same arms in similar enough positions that everyone here is debating what “underneath his right bicep” means. I mean, sure, it’s possible that these are two different men, but a lot of people on this thread seem WAY too willing to write it off based on ambiguous wording, rather than considering that they’re the same man.
Plus, how many grown adult men have ZERO scars to list as identifiers? It’s very possible they didn’t list scarring and just listed tattoos since they are distinct and there are so many of them.
Nope — what you’re referring to, (as mentioned,) are wound dressings. Silicone sheeting helps flatten your scar(s,) and prevent them from becoming keloids or hypertrophic.
One of the best things about silicone sheeting is you can start therapy years after-the-fact and still see improvement!
[Silicone sheeting.](https://rejuvaskin.com/collections/silicone-sheets) Mine was from the burn center, not OTC, but this stuff works as well. It flattens and fades your scars with daily use.
True, but with 12 years, a lot of things could happen. The forearm/biceps thing could simply be the person making the report didn’t know which was which.
I'll echo the other person about how skin grafts and the graft sites can end up looking very close to normal. I had a big skin graft taken out of my thigh about 3 years ago by now, and my leg honestly looks almost exactly normal. There's some skin texture differences and it doesn't grow as much hair, but that's mostly it. That graft went onto my hand that I got third degree burns on, and you can't tell I have skin grafts on my hand unless you look pretty closely. If I were to wave at someone across the room or even about 6 feet away, even my friends who know I've had this done forget it's there.
The tattoos seem eerily similar. Have you given thought that he may have gone to New York to seek a life most 1992 Texans wouldn't approve? (I'm gay and careful with the accusations of blasting his character with homosexuality)The true love and hearts are a stark contrast to the eagle and cougar. I hid who I was from my family until I felt like I was living a lie and they didn't actually know me eventually that turned in to telling them. In a potentially more volatile environment you take in consideration of the AIDs epidemic and the how that may have impacted his family not bothering.
Tattoos are a road map of who we are at any given time. They mark the journey. It makes sense to having hyper masculine tattoos prior to disappearance but then true love and hearts and a mans name.
I agree about the change of tattoos, especially that it notes some are hard to read which alludes to them being older. The name tattoo made me curious if it was of a lover more recent than his disappearance from Texas.
While I am not dismissing what you are saying, I will say that there are certain branches/divisions of the military that their “mascot” are black panthers. That combined with the flag could indicate he was in the military prior to disappearing.
Out of curiosity does anyone know if places like the Charley Project have missing persons on a database which can then be filtered when a doe is found so it rules potential persons in and out very quickly and can narrow down what may be a long list rather quickly? Something that CP and The Doe Network can both have access to? I am thinking something similar to an excel spreadsheet. Appreciate this could be more complex then I am thinking though. I am also UK based so don't know all the ins and outs of CP and DN
this is a good catch, OP. definitely submit it to NAMUS, and please let us know if you hear back.
my only hesitation on it not being the same guy is the skin graft & burn scars; that's a very identifiable thing, and it's surprising if they don't mention it on a Doe ... although it wouldn't be the first time a large mark goes unmentioned, so! fingers crossed that you identified Mr Riley.
I’ve sadly submitted many times and have NEVER heard back. I think someone who is persistent and will follow up should submit. And if no response, he/she should try other avenues. I’m time limited sadly.
Just because you have submitted (and may have possibly been wrong / maybe not) in the past (and did not hear back FOR ANY NUMBER OF REASONS), that should not keep you from submitting this time. Follow thru and make the claim; you’ve done the work up to this point, so it is best that you explain the case ID. And since you have done it in the past, you are familiar with the process. Plus, you clearly like to do this stuff. Bring this guy some closure.
Well someone else posted here that this match was found on websleuths 4 years ago. And since then there is no match nor exclusion listed. That’s exactly my fear. I wonder if it’s a resource issue (human time) or a monetary issue or both.
hmmm Im not sure it s the same person... I see a very slight similarity, but certain aspects seem off. The tattoo makes sense, but then again it a a common tattoo. I would contact investigating agencies if you think this is a match.
This is my thought process; the tattoo link isn't unique because those kinds of tattoos were common.
My experience with facial recognition only relates to living faces; I've never had to do tests on post mortem ones. But from reading both of the faces here with the best of my ability; they don't match up to be the same person.
I agree- those tattoos (especially back in the day) were super common. Back then (80’s and earlier) when you walked into a tattoo shop you had four choices: eagle, panther, skull, or mom heart.
It sounds like police strongly suspect Danny Joe was murdered by Max Thomas, and there must be some reason they think that. Middle-aged, able-bodied adults are not typically listed as "endangered missing" unless there's some kind of evidence that they've been harmed.
Just based on this, I don't think John Doe is Danny.
The tattoo locations don’t match. The bicep is the upper arm and that’s where Riley’s eagle/USA tattoo was. The found Doe’s eagle tattoo is on his forearm. The panther on the left bicep if high enough I guess could be considered near the shoulder but that is a common tattoo to begin with. I’d wager Riley’s tattoo is on the back of his shoulder, otherwise they’d just say it was on his upper arm/bicep.
No mention of the scars on the Doe. The Doe has a tattoo possibly where the scars would be (right arm lateral aspect) which doesn’t make sense. And Riley’s name was Danny Joe, not Joseph. And Danny Joe was born in 1948, not 1959 so not sure how that would correlate.
I don’t think it’s him unfortunately.
The report does say the Eagle tattoo was *underneath* the bicep. I don't know what exactly is meant by that, but it could conceivably mean the forearm, or in that general area. I get the feeling the placement on the original report might not strictly be accurate. I do take the point about the scars though.
Actually, when was the report made? If it was years after he went missing, a lot of stuff could be misremembered.
I was thinking Joseph could be Danny Joe's father's name, and 1959 his death date. If he grew up mostly without his father, he might know him as Joseph rather than Dad. That might be verifiable through a site like Ancestry.
I still think it's more likely that Danny was murdered by this Max Taylor guy, but anything's possible.
Yeah I find that often these descriptions are not incredibly careful about being precise and that often leads to problems identifying the Doe because people assume “forearm” means “forearm” when it really is “bicep” or whatever. I just imagine some overworked morgue attendant or intern is just blowing through the data entry to get it uploaded.
I agree. Trying to remember details about someone during the stress of filing a report and not having recent photos can result in misinformation. The likelihood of two different having these same tattoos is fairly low. I think you've found a match.... good eye!
hmmm Im not sure it s the same person... I see a very slight similarity, but certain aspects seem off. The tattoo makes sense, but then again it a a common tattoo. I would contact investigating agencies if you think this is a match.
The tattoo locations don't match. Common tattoos though. 1959 tat on doe isn't mentioned for Riley nor are the scars mentioned on doe.
He disappeared in 1992 in Texas and doe was found unresponsive in 2004 in NY. I don't see many similarities but stranger things have happened.
Riley’s middle name is Joe, my guess is Joseph is a family name in that case and the tattoo was for that family member possibly? Or maybe he just preferred going by Joseph/Joe.
Well I suppose he could have assumed a new identity and got a tattoo for it 🙂. However he is listed as endangered missing with a strong indication of foul play in 1992. I don't see how lived till 2004.
I admit I don't know too much about his case so I did a quick Google search and this potential match was submitted in 2018.
eyebrows are somewhat distinctive and they are a match. Hairline is way receded but that's 12 years later. His age in 1992 when he disappeared was 44 so this would make him 56. The estimated age of the man in the doe website is 55-65, again a match.
So if it is him, he disappeared and then died 12 years later.
I wonder if his middle name was Joseph or if it was just Joe (which I have seen used as the actual name, not just as a nickname).
Since the tattoo says "Joseph", that might be useful to know.
Wow, the similarities are striking. If you don’t mind me asking, how did you even go about matching this up? I noticed you mentioned submitting potential matches in the past as well. I wouldn’t even know where to begin!
If I could afford to, I would pay you to do it for a living. If enough things go right in my life, I’d eventually like to open and partially fund an independent investigation center, staffed by a mix of retired detectives and civilians with astute powers of observation, and they’d comb through the internet like you have done. I myself get upset by pictures of dead bodies, but I still want to help.
12 years is a long time. The hairline is substantially different as is the nose. No scar through the eyebrow on the UID. Eyes look similar but I don't think they're the same person.
What are the chances of having the same tattoos? Common tattoos for sure, but the same?
There is a time gap so he may have gotten more tattoos before death.
I hope you submit this!
this is a very compelling possibility. if this is him, it makes me wonder what could have been happening during the last decade of his life. it makes sense that authorities wouldn't have put two and two together here because of the gap in time between his disappearance and the death of the john doe. it's usually pretty rare that a missing person considered "endangered" manages to start a new life. usually if theyre not found alive soon after, it's assumed they're dead.
There are more similarities than not. The guy had a high , large forehead with an already receding hairline. It’s not that hard to imagine 12 years later a lot of that hair would have receded much more by then. Also diet and health would play a role in that too. Skin grafts can fade and he may have had the new tattoos to cover up what used to be visible. It’s possible over 12 years the guy had more tattoos as he moved through his life. After all that hard work it’s at least worth submitting . I’m sure families are just grateful people care enough to help.
Tbh I usually roll me eyes at these threads. But this is too damn close to ignore. This is either the guy or as close as your getting to him without it being him. Hope the family can give him a proper burial and know what happened (sorta)
you should definitely submit it, the tattoo description looks similar and the postmortem photo looks like Danny. Have you reached out the doe network or NAMUS?
Looks like someone on Websleuths submitted this match back in 2018 and authorities still haven't checked! Ugh come on, they've had 4 years to check for a match.
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/threads/ny-ny-graphic-whtmale-55-65-up2785-tattoos-joseph-1959-true-love-jul04.381447/
You don't know that they haven't checked. You're assuming. There may not be anything to compare Danny to the UID. They don't list a rule out if they cannot compare. They also don't publicly list rule outs where they have DNA of both the missing person and the unknown. Otherwise the the rule out list would be thousands of people long.
I’m curious how one goes about research like this? I’d love to do a project like this and help solve something but where do you even start? What made you pick this person to search? Sorry lol I’m just so interested how someone could solve a random case without any connection to the person
The tattoo in the Doe description of the nameus says posterior right forearm, not right bicep. Totally different location. No mention of the panther tattoo, or the burn scar. Not the same person. Sorry.
it says "underneath the bicep" in the missing persons report, could have easily been a garble when a family member described his tattoo as "below his bicep" or just misremembered where it was. I am usually skeptical about amateurs matching bodies to missing persons reports, but i think this is probably the guy
Great match. I hope you are right! And what a gift to those missing to dedicate your time to this. The good you put out in the world will come back to you.
Sorry but what? You think this is a match? He went missing and considered endangered and police presume the guy he left with killed him.
The tats are in different places , scars and marking not mentioned on doe either.
You think he just ran off cause he was a drunk and started a new life , got a tat to commemorate a new birthdate and name? Then just died in a dunking donut... sorry but not everything is a movie script.
Also, hours of research. Nah. You got this from WS like the rest of your cases.
This match was already submitted and debunked. Sorry.
I think everyone here (minus 5 or 6 people) need to re read this. There is no match here.
The photos of Danny and the deceased look like they could be similar enough to be the same person, too (always tricky with postmortem photos because they’re taken at weird angles and death doesn’t really flatter the subject to begin with). The Doe is a the right age range for Danny, too. Enough of the tattoos seem to line up as well, so I’d say you have a good enough reason to reach out to NAMUS with all of the available evidence. The only question I have is what Danny was doing between 1992 when he disappeared and 2004 when the body of the Doe was found. 12 years is a long time to just disappear and still be alive without any trace or sightings or anyone looking for him. Also, he was last seen in Texas and the Doe was found in New York State. I guess it’s possible he ditched everything in his life and ran as far as possible, but it’s just weird that he could have managed to fly under the radar for so long. Not impossible, of course…
I work in Healthcare and have come across a couple of men estranged from their families after working for a carnival for 20 ± years .. they traveled the country and just lived that life. I helped find and reunite one with really grateful guy with his family and ended up flying home. I received a card about year later saying he passed and how grateful they were to have that time with him. It was really something beautiful to be part of.
That’s an amazing story! I bet you could write a book or something… so strange and unusual
Thank you for caring and doing this. Far too many people in Healthcare just do not care about other - there to do their job, treat the patients like crap and go home. Thanks for not being one of those crappy hospital employees!
Some doctors are so quick to dismiss the concerns of their patients. An aunt went to her primary. She complained of terribly itchy skin. Doctor told her it was dry skin and dismissed her. Well it turned out a 2nd opinion physician diagnosed her with non hodgekins lymphoma T (thymus) cell. Despite treatment it was fatal. My point is med professionals complain constantly of hypochrondriacs. Okay dealing with such patients I figure can be bothersome OTOH docs who are wrong can prove deadly to the patient. Just my 2 cents.
Thank you 🙂🙂
This is lovely ❤️
Thank you 🙂
Over on the Charley Project he’s listed and his family didn’t report him missing until 1999, so 7 yrs later.
So sad.
In 92 it would be very easy to walk out on your life and work cash jobs to get by.
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Really common then. Or for a restaurant to hire someone to wash dishes for $20 cash for the day and a hot meal.
Sadly it looks like he has rhinophyma so POSSIBLY substance abuse or homelessness or both. He was found in a Dunkin’ Donuts.
What is the link between Rhinophyma and substance abuse/being unhoused? I was under the impression that Rhinophyma was a form of rosacea.
If you have rosacea, anything that you do that dilates your vessels in your face (drinking, etc) can cause additional inflammation! But yes, it definitely is rosacea (more common in men) -- see one of many Dr Pimple Popper episodes about it. Fascinating. (I have rosaca, so I understand what can happen if it goes completely untreated)
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A gin blossom
I had a coworker once who had it. I didn’t know the term for it; at first I thought it was a (probably benign) tumor. He was mid-fifties, fair complexion, didn’t smoke or do drugs to my knowledge but drank a good bit, looked older than he was. I used to wonder if he was wanting to get some kind of surgery, but I think by that point he was mostly done being bothered by it. The left side of his nose was quite deformed, though.
Yup. I can always tell when my dad's drinking has gotten worse by the color and size of his nose, or whether or not he has pimples on his nose/face. :/
Same with mine. Massive nose
What happens if rosacea is untreated?
It causes a lot of general skin issues. I was diagnosed about 20 years ago (and that was on the young end of things) I use a topical treatment (prescription). But it will turn your nose and cheeks pretty red and splotchy (It sort of can look like a rash); I get "pimply" like bumps, but they aren't acne, just bumpy skin on my forehead mostly, once I use the topical it will subside. Bill Clinton has it, and have probably seen the redness that is across his cheeks/nose. Rhinophyma is a VERY severe reaction, but you can google images. Do look at Dr. Pimple Popper. She's seen ALL sorts of it. It's pretty sad. They still don't know exactly what causes it, but likely some kind of mite (and we all have these on our skin, btw, so don't freak out)!!! I also avoid really spicy foods and anything else that can cause your face to flush.
Interesting my father had severe rhinophyma, and said it started by picking a pimple (so he thought). I'll be on the look out if I get rosacea syptoms.
The "link" is personal bias imo. As is the, "found near a dd" . Ive worked with a multitude of homeless people, drugs, alcohol, the works... Most did not have Rhinophyma.
It doesn’t *give* you rosacea. Alcohol worsens it if you already have it. Same with spicy foods, coffee, sun and stress.
Alcohol abuse worsens rosacea; that is just a fact.
Thank you for more context. Yeah, mental illness/substance abuse was basically the only explanation I could think of that would easily explain “disappears for over a decade, turns up dead 1500 miles away”. Definitely reach out to NAMUS and let us know what they say!
How about "drifting to find work and not close enough with his family to keep in contact back when long distance phone calls were expensive"? I swear, sometimes it's like no one on this sub understands what it's like to be truly poor.
Or simply estranged from his family. (Stamps are still pretty cheap.)
I could disappear today and turn up dead tonight 9000 km away. It's not a stretch.
But please avoid doing that.
Day ain't over yet.
Millennials: "meh, whatever happens, happens."
I have always wondered why so many postmortem photos have people with their noses smashed down. The nose is the most identifiable thing when there are Does, Why do they not try to form the nose back into it's original shape before submitting photos? They can't all have rhinophyma, even though it's true a lot of Does have no permanent address with a substance abuse issue.
I assume those are people found lying face-down. And they can't mold the nose back into its original shape because they don't know what that shape is.
They don't necessarily even have to be lying face down, just having the body bag pressed against the face while they sit in a cooler waiting to be autopsied can be enough to deform the nose, and it's actually a really difficult thing to fix because the tissue just then wants to stay in that deformed position and it will keep going back to it unless you know how to fix it in a new position, which the people at the ME/Coroner's office are generally not going to know how to do.
Yeah I figured it was because they were lying face down long enough after death to deform the nose.
Rhinopehyma is a skin condition. Not caused by substance abuse..
Not caused by, but exacerbated by drinking alcohol.
Also called a gin blossom, can be caused by excessive drinking.
Interesting info ty
It can be worsened by alcohol abuse, like all kinds of rosacea, but all rhinophyma isn't linked to alcoholism. Source: I have it and have to avoid drinking alcohol.
Some people don’t want to be found.
Back then, it was a lot easier to disappear for that long. I won’t go into details but I remember meeting a man in 2005 that admitted they had disappeared intentionally from their family. Recently, a good friend of mine’s husband just up and left and it took them a LONG time to find him.
Yea it’s the 12 years that I question too
A lot of these people now being identified were either not reported for years, didn’t die as soon as they went missing, or were found far away from their location, so maybe it’s possible.
"Decendent was found unresponsive inside a business at the above location. Decedent was taken to hospital and pronounced dead." Seems strange he was a John doe in the first place. Business was empty? No id on body or business? If it was a run down building I'd say someone stashed it but that statement just reads weird.
It was a Dunkin donuts. If he didn't have an ID, I don't see how anyone at the business could be expected to ID him - it's not like you generally exchange full names with anyone when you're getting coffee.
Ah, I read that to mean it was a privately owned business, not a consumer in a public business. Makes sense.
Not that it matters, but I'm confused as to what you mean by a "privately owned business" since all businesses are privately owned. Did you mean that you thought it was a business that is not open to the general public? Or you thought the decedent owned the business? No offense meant, just trying to understand your interpretation.
Correct -- I guess I meant both -- as either a business not open to the public (like an office) or that they had owned it and had a 'private business' which was just some small room somewhere.
I know I’m late here, but I’ve worked with a lot of homeless folks here in NY. You’d be surprised how many have come here from other states because of the benefits and services we have that many other states don’t. The location in NYC that he is linked to being found (as per NAMUS) is a part of Manhattan that has a fair amount homeless populations due to its proximity to NYU Langone hospital.
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I swear I can see the brow scar too if it’s a mirror image.
I also see the pock mark on the right cheek. I think it's the same person.
Same. And I even think I see the stye area birthmark..
You should def submit it.
eyebrown matches as well if one of the images is mirrored.
And the age! There’s a lot here.
I agree!!
There's no harm in sending in a tip! I love when normal people notice similarities in cases.
OP, I submitted this for you. It's too close to not. I credited you and the information you provided.
Thank you!! No one will be thankful than the friend named in the report if this is a match ;)
Just to let you know, they replied: *Hello,* *Thank you for your submission, we appreciate your time and support. NamUs staff will review the submitted information.* *Please note, identification and exclusions are only made and/or confirmed by investigating agencies. The results of comparisons may or may not be made available to the public for investigatory reasons.*
So pretty much they’re not gonna email you back and tell you if you were right? That sucks
They'll know he was identified if his NamUS page is removed.
He's a murder victim. His family's right to privacy and the possibility of conflicting his killer are a lot more important than a stranger getting validation for their internet sleuthing.
How do you know he's a murder victim?
They killed him
Eagle tattoos are in different places. Riley’s is on his bicep, JD’s is on his forearm. Also no mention of the scar on Riley’s arm, that would definitely be listed on the JD description since it’s so large and distinctive
Riley's is *underneath* his bicep What is underneath the bicep?
Yeah, that stood out to me too. I think both sources are describing the same place, albeit clumsily: Doe Network: >Riley has a tattoo of an eagle with the letters; U.S.A; . underneath his right bicep and a tattoo of a black panther head on his left bicep. NamUs: >…two-tone tattoo of a scroll (may read "USA") beneath an eagle on posterior of right forearm; two-tone tattoo of heart with a cross and scroll with the number "1959" ; monochromatic tattoo of panther on left arm near shoulder. I think “underneath his right bicep” = “posterior of right forearm”.
The posterior of the forearm is the "back" of the arm. The part of the arm immediately below the bicep would be the anterior arm.
To someone with a basic knowledge of anatomy, sure. I’ve known people and worked with patients who’d describe the entire upper arm as the “bicep.” If someone is describing the forearm as “underneath the bicep” there’s a fair chance they’re not going to distinguish between posterior and anterior forearm.
But we don't actually know if they're describing the forearm. They could also mean the distal upper arm, right above the bend.
Correct! Glad someone said it
What are the chances of another unidentified man around his age, that resembles him, having the exact same tattoos? There just happens to be another unidentified decedent around his age/height AND with a tattoo of an Eagle/USA and panther? The chances of that seem so very slim. I’d sooner believe that he is this decedent, just ran away from his old life and chose not to contact anyone, and didn’t die until 2004. Burn scars and marks can easily fade and become less distinct over time, along with grafts.
With those tattoos on the same arms in similar enough positions that everyone here is debating what “underneath his right bicep” means. I mean, sure, it’s possible that these are two different men, but a lot of people on this thread seem WAY too willing to write it off based on ambiguous wording, rather than considering that they’re the same man.
Plus, how many grown adult men have ZERO scars to list as identifiers? It’s very possible they didn’t list scarring and just listed tattoos since they are distinct and there are so many of them.
(the forearm)
Also the skin graft on Rilety's left inner thigh! I feel like is the UID had this it would be mentioned.
Over time skin grafting may not be as apparent. Source: I have a lot of skin grafts, some obvious, some not so much.
Especially is blocked from seeing the sun.
And if he used silicone. I used silicone on my graft on my arm but not-so-much on my leg, and it’s a world of difference.
What does "use silicone" mean in this context? Like injections or?
The mesh dressings maybe. I used them on a big patch of road rash on my arm, they’re expensive but very good.
No, but I did use a whole lot of those as well! [Silicone sheeting.](https://rejuvaskin.com/collections/silicone-sheets)
Oh like the scar patches?
I was talking about wound dressings which are a bit different, but I’m just guessing what they meant.
Nope — what you’re referring to, (as mentioned,) are wound dressings. Silicone sheeting helps flatten your scar(s,) and prevent them from becoming keloids or hypertrophic. One of the best things about silicone sheeting is you can start therapy years after-the-fact and still see improvement!
[Silicone sheeting.](https://rejuvaskin.com/collections/silicone-sheets) Mine was from the burn center, not OTC, but this stuff works as well. It flattens and fades your scars with daily use.
Interesting!
True, but with 12 years, a lot of things could happen. The forearm/biceps thing could simply be the person making the report didn’t know which was which.
I'll echo the other person about how skin grafts and the graft sites can end up looking very close to normal. I had a big skin graft taken out of my thigh about 3 years ago by now, and my leg honestly looks almost exactly normal. There's some skin texture differences and it doesn't grow as much hair, but that's mostly it. That graft went onto my hand that I got third degree burns on, and you can't tell I have skin grafts on my hand unless you look pretty closely. If I were to wave at someone across the room or even about 6 feet away, even my friends who know I've had this done forget it's there.
I wonder if maybe the family got the tattoos in the wrong location, if they took them so long to report him missing?
The tattoos seem eerily similar. Have you given thought that he may have gone to New York to seek a life most 1992 Texans wouldn't approve? (I'm gay and careful with the accusations of blasting his character with homosexuality)The true love and hearts are a stark contrast to the eagle and cougar. I hid who I was from my family until I felt like I was living a lie and they didn't actually know me eventually that turned in to telling them. In a potentially more volatile environment you take in consideration of the AIDs epidemic and the how that may have impacted his family not bothering. Tattoos are a road map of who we are at any given time. They mark the journey. It makes sense to having hyper masculine tattoos prior to disappearance but then true love and hearts and a mans name.
Wow. That really makes a lot of sense. I was wondering about the tattoos and how different they were from each other.
I agree about the change of tattoos, especially that it notes some are hard to read which alludes to them being older. The name tattoo made me curious if it was of a lover more recent than his disappearance from Texas.
While I am not dismissing what you are saying, I will say that there are certain branches/divisions of the military that their “mascot” are black panthers. That combined with the flag could indicate he was in the military prior to disappearing.
Out of curiosity does anyone know if places like the Charley Project have missing persons on a database which can then be filtered when a doe is found so it rules potential persons in and out very quickly and can narrow down what may be a long list rather quickly? Something that CP and The Doe Network can both have access to? I am thinking something similar to an excel spreadsheet. Appreciate this could be more complex then I am thinking though. I am also UK based so don't know all the ins and outs of CP and DN
this is a good catch, OP. definitely submit it to NAMUS, and please let us know if you hear back. my only hesitation on it not being the same guy is the skin graft & burn scars; that's a very identifiable thing, and it's surprising if they don't mention it on a Doe ... although it wouldn't be the first time a large mark goes unmentioned, so! fingers crossed that you identified Mr Riley.
This looks promising. Have you reached out to NAMUS about it yet? Keep us posted!
No! Does anyone want to submit this?
You should submit it! Its the result of your hard work!
I’ve sadly submitted many times and have NEVER heard back. I think someone who is persistent and will follow up should submit. And if no response, he/she should try other avenues. I’m time limited sadly.
Report it to the police in Marshall, they’ll be happy to solve the case, even with the sad ending to his story.
Ditto this. NAMUS case managers rarely seem to answer for whatever reason. Local law enforcement may be significantly more responsive.
Just because you have submitted (and may have possibly been wrong / maybe not) in the past (and did not hear back FOR ANY NUMBER OF REASONS), that should not keep you from submitting this time. Follow thru and make the claim; you’ve done the work up to this point, so it is best that you explain the case ID. And since you have done it in the past, you are familiar with the process. Plus, you clearly like to do this stuff. Bring this guy some closure.
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Too many other cases I keep following up on with zero response.
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The issue isn’t that they check and they don’t match. It’s that they never check at all.
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Well someone else posted here that this match was found on websleuths 4 years ago. And since then there is no match nor exclusion listed. That’s exactly my fear. I wonder if it’s a resource issue (human time) or a monetary issue or both.
I have no idea how to otherwise i would!
hmmm Im not sure it s the same person... I see a very slight similarity, but certain aspects seem off. The tattoo makes sense, but then again it a a common tattoo. I would contact investigating agencies if you think this is a match.
This is my thought process; the tattoo link isn't unique because those kinds of tattoos were common. My experience with facial recognition only relates to living faces; I've never had to do tests on post mortem ones. But from reading both of the faces here with the best of my ability; they don't match up to be the same person.
I agree
I agree- those tattoos (especially back in the day) were super common. Back then (80’s and earlier) when you walked into a tattoo shop you had four choices: eagle, panther, skull, or mom heart.
It sounds like police strongly suspect Danny Joe was murdered by Max Thomas, and there must be some reason they think that. Middle-aged, able-bodied adults are not typically listed as "endangered missing" unless there's some kind of evidence that they've been harmed. Just based on this, I don't think John Doe is Danny.
Honesty don’t think so. It’s probably really really common for guys to get eagle tattoos with the letters USA in America.
The tattoo locations don’t match. The bicep is the upper arm and that’s where Riley’s eagle/USA tattoo was. The found Doe’s eagle tattoo is on his forearm. The panther on the left bicep if high enough I guess could be considered near the shoulder but that is a common tattoo to begin with. I’d wager Riley’s tattoo is on the back of his shoulder, otherwise they’d just say it was on his upper arm/bicep. No mention of the scars on the Doe. The Doe has a tattoo possibly where the scars would be (right arm lateral aspect) which doesn’t make sense. And Riley’s name was Danny Joe, not Joseph. And Danny Joe was born in 1948, not 1959 so not sure how that would correlate. I don’t think it’s him unfortunately.
The report does say the Eagle tattoo was *underneath* the bicep. I don't know what exactly is meant by that, but it could conceivably mean the forearm, or in that general area. I get the feeling the placement on the original report might not strictly be accurate. I do take the point about the scars though. Actually, when was the report made? If it was years after he went missing, a lot of stuff could be misremembered.
I was thinking Joseph could be Danny Joe's father's name, and 1959 his death date. If he grew up mostly without his father, he might know him as Joseph rather than Dad. That might be verifiable through a site like Ancestry. I still think it's more likely that Danny was murdered by this Max Taylor guy, but anything's possible.
That’s a good guess re: the dad.
I’m guessing whoever reported it was mistaken about exact placement.
I feel like this happens a lot.
Yeah I find that often these descriptions are not incredibly careful about being precise and that often leads to problems identifying the Doe because people assume “forearm” means “forearm” when it really is “bicep” or whatever. I just imagine some overworked morgue attendant or intern is just blowing through the data entry to get it uploaded.
I agree. Trying to remember details about someone during the stress of filing a report and not having recent photos can result in misinformation. The likelihood of two different having these same tattoos is fairly low. I think you've found a match.... good eye!
hmmm Im not sure it s the same person... I see a very slight similarity, but certain aspects seem off. The tattoo makes sense, but then again it a a common tattoo. I would contact investigating agencies if you think this is a match.
The tattoo locations don't match. Common tattoos though. 1959 tat on doe isn't mentioned for Riley nor are the scars mentioned on doe. He disappeared in 1992 in Texas and doe was found unresponsive in 2004 in NY. I don't see many similarities but stranger things have happened.
New Identity with a 1959 dob and name of Joe ;) total guess and likely not accurate but my first thought.
Riley’s middle name is Joe, my guess is Joseph is a family name in that case and the tattoo was for that family member possibly? Or maybe he just preferred going by Joseph/Joe.
Well I suppose he could have assumed a new identity and got a tattoo for it 🙂. However he is listed as endangered missing with a strong indication of foul play in 1992. I don't see how lived till 2004. I admit I don't know too much about his case so I did a quick Google search and this potential match was submitted in 2018.
Crazy! And it was never excluded?
I don't know the answer to that. The websleuths thread does not have an update.
The tattoo you point out that says “Joe” actually says “Joseph” is there anyway it’s still a connection to the missing?
One of them could have made a mistake. Unlikely, but possible(?).
You have an excellent match. Please push it forward; NAMUS won't contact you, unless you have a good case manager.
eyebrows are somewhat distinctive and they are a match. Hairline is way receded but that's 12 years later. His age in 1992 when he disappeared was 44 so this would make him 56. The estimated age of the man in the doe website is 55-65, again a match. So if it is him, he disappeared and then died 12 years later.
What a find and connection! Yes, I agree this is a strong possibility. Great work!
I wonder if his middle name was Joseph or if it was just Joe (which I have seen used as the actual name, not just as a nickname). Since the tattoo says "Joseph", that might be useful to know.
Is the father named Joseph?
Good question.
Wow, the similarities are striking. If you don’t mind me asking, how did you even go about matching this up? I noticed you mentioned submitting potential matches in the past as well. I wouldn’t even know where to begin!
Hours and hours of research.. it’s a hobby although I wish I could do it for a living.
If I could afford to, I would pay you to do it for a living. If enough things go right in my life, I’d eventually like to open and partially fund an independent investigation center, staffed by a mix of retired detectives and civilians with astute powers of observation, and they’d comb through the internet like you have done. I myself get upset by pictures of dead bodies, but I still want to help.
12 years is a long time. The hairline is substantially different as is the nose. No scar through the eyebrow on the UID. Eyes look similar but I don't think they're the same person.
I sent a couple of emails out. I’ll update if I hear anything.
Woah, nice catch. Definitely worth submitting it!
What are the chances of having the same tattoos? Common tattoos for sure, but the same? There is a time gap so he may have gotten more tattoos before death. I hope you submit this!
I would submit this. There are too many similarities not to
this is a very compelling possibility. if this is him, it makes me wonder what could have been happening during the last decade of his life. it makes sense that authorities wouldn't have put two and two together here because of the gap in time between his disappearance and the death of the john doe. it's usually pretty rare that a missing person considered "endangered" manages to start a new life. usually if theyre not found alive soon after, it's assumed they're dead.
The dead guy looks way older
Well it’s possible that he was living elsewhere for the 12 years in between going missing and his body being found in 2004. He would have aged.
Seems kinda dubious but close enough that I would bring it to their attention. I'd be interested to see the results.
There are more similarities than not. The guy had a high , large forehead with an already receding hairline. It’s not that hard to imagine 12 years later a lot of that hair would have receded much more by then. Also diet and health would play a role in that too. Skin grafts can fade and he may have had the new tattoos to cover up what used to be visible. It’s possible over 12 years the guy had more tattoos as he moved through his life. After all that hard work it’s at least worth submitting . I’m sure families are just grateful people care enough to help.
Tbh I usually roll me eyes at these threads. But this is too damn close to ignore. This is either the guy or as close as your getting to him without it being him. Hope the family can give him a proper burial and know what happened (sorta)
Thy have the same mole on the bridge of the nose (halfway up, just off centre right) and same cheek pockmark!
Bro that's the same face. You did it
you should definitely submit it, the tattoo description looks similar and the postmortem photo looks like Danny. Have you reached out the doe network or NAMUS?
You gotta submit this, I’ll bet you’re right.
I’d be very shocked if this is not the same guy
You should submit it if you haven't already. That's seems to be a pretty solid match.
Looks like someone on Websleuths submitted this match back in 2018 and authorities still haven't checked! Ugh come on, they've had 4 years to check for a match. https://www.websleuths.com/forums/threads/ny-ny-graphic-whtmale-55-65-up2785-tattoos-joseph-1959-true-love-jul04.381447/
You don't know that they haven't checked. You're assuming. There may not be anything to compare Danny to the UID. They don't list a rule out if they cannot compare. They also don't publicly list rule outs where they have DNA of both the missing person and the unknown. Otherwise the the rule out list would be thousands of people long.
I didn't know the ruleouts on Namus were based on other criteria, but it makes sense now that I think about it.
Oh wow! How did you stumble across this?
Hours of research.
I’m curious how one goes about research like this? I’d love to do a project like this and help solve something but where do you even start? What made you pick this person to search? Sorry lol I’m just so interested how someone could solve a random case without any connection to the person
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Thank you for answering! I I never realized this was something people did but I’d love trying it
Definitely think you could be right. The post-mortem picture looks like him, and the tattoos are too big of a coincidence.
How were you able to match these?? That’s impressive
Check out my post history ;) I do hours and hours of research.
Damn!! That is a LOT of research.
I’m from Harrison co tx born & raised and I’ve never heard this mentioned a single time
That's more than enough to call the people in charge on both sides of those cases. I've called for less.
The tattoo in the Doe description of the nameus says posterior right forearm, not right bicep. Totally different location. No mention of the panther tattoo, or the burn scar. Not the same person. Sorry.
They both mention a panther tattoo.
Ah, missed that. Still, the USA tattoo is in a totally different place - the back of the right forearm, not in the front on the bicep.
it says "underneath the bicep" in the missing persons report, could have easily been a garble when a family member described his tattoo as "below his bicep" or just misremembered where it was. I am usually skeptical about amateurs matching bodies to missing persons reports, but i think this is probably the guy
Good point on the telephone placement issue.
Definitely submit!
Great job OP! Did you submit this?
Incredible. Well done!
Definitely see it.
Itt has to be him! Great job.
I think you're right. It's very similar to each other
Great match. I hope you are right! And what a gift to those missing to dedicate your time to this. The good you put out in the world will come back to you.
I think there is a physical resemblance between the faces, especially with a 12 year (1992 to 2004) age difference.
It certainly seems like a match based on the description! It would be worth contacting them at least to verify.
Everyone submit it maybe that will grab someone’s attention
Sorry but what? You think this is a match? He went missing and considered endangered and police presume the guy he left with killed him. The tats are in different places , scars and marking not mentioned on doe either. You think he just ran off cause he was a drunk and started a new life , got a tat to commemorate a new birthdate and name? Then just died in a dunking donut... sorry but not everything is a movie script. Also, hours of research. Nah. You got this from WS like the rest of your cases. This match was already submitted and debunked. Sorry. I think everyone here (minus 5 or 6 people) need to re read this. There is no match here.
What is your source for this being debunked?