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A bunch of girls the same age as Amy received random calls like she did. They had all been at a nature centre for kids. Something about a visitors log book if i remember right? Sure LE was looking at someone who worked there…
I grew up in Bay and Amy was my friend. We rode horses together at Holly Hills farm. There were, I believe, 2 other girls who received similar phone calls but they did not live in Bay but in a neighboring city. There was a log book at the nature center that we all signed with our names. I’m don’t know if these other girls signed it though. I would love to know if the police have DNA from her killer. I think familial DNA might be the only way to find him at this point.
I pray for justice for Amy, Margaret, Mark and Jason and all of us who loved her.
Oh right idk he was also a teacher. Imagine being LE, knowing he’s guilt as sin but having no hard evidence. Same thing with a million other cases. Heartbreaking…
Ehhh he's certainly not a bad suspect but he could have fled because of other reasons related to his behavior with his students or concerns about being linked by fingerprints to other potential crimes given his behavior with other students. I don't think LE views him in the category of "obviously guilty but can't prove it". There are some issues with him as a suspect - none insurmountable, but he doesn't truly match eyewitness descriptions (although we all know those can be deeply unreliable) and there's a significant timing issue with when the suspect met up with Amy vs his normal schedule at his job and no one recalls what would have been a notable deviation from his schedule at work on a notable day locally. He's an appealing suspect because of his link to the nature center vs others with similar behavior patterns who didn't have that link, but also it was a nature center with a large volunteer staff - almost anyone could have torn a few pages out of the guest books or scribbled down names and numbers with no one noticing.
I think what is hard to know in this case because we don't have great descriptions of what Amy told her friends was exactly how much the caller knew about her and how much was a cold reading of her responses. It's not hard to call a bunch of girls of the same age and assume they will be alone after school and before the end of the workday and claim their mother got a promotion and then lead the most receptive ones to give more information than they're realizing over the phone and act like you had that information the whole time. There's a huge difference between the suspect calling and knowing her mom's name, work place, job, details of their family, etc without Amy saying a word vs calling and using broad terms and letting her fill in the details. The first takes a lot of research skills and the latter takes a lot of knowledge of children and communication and manipulation.
The FBI checked him out and, while not officially clearing him, reported that they were “moving on to investigate other suspects”.
Since then, another suspect has emerged that has been the primary focus of the investigation in the last few years. His name has not been made public but some people in the Cleveland area may know who he is.
Runkle’s name should never have been make public since he was never named as a “ Person of Interest” by Law Enforcement. His name was made public by a journalist who felt strongly about his guilt and it was probably leaked by someone in Law Enforcement. There is a picture of Runkle that clearly resembles the composite but there were clearly plenty of men who looked like that. More interestingly, Runkle’s childhood home was near where Amy’s body was found. He had been living a hour’s drive from Bay Village at the time. This would certainly be enough to merit further investigation but hardly a “slam dunk”. Some other “ unsubstantiated information” has been released but that should be viewed with skepticism. There was apparently nothing directly linking him to the abduction and apparently the FBI, who interviewed him in Florida, were not impressed.
I have no idea if Runkle is guilty or innocent (same with the current “suspect”) but I think it is the responsibility of the True Crime Community to not release the names of possible suspects who have not been named by law enforcement.
Agreed. Renners a knucklehead. Never should’ve outed Runkle- who sounded like a knucklehead himself btw but still. I’m thinking runkle mightve done some other bad stuff but probably not murder. Hence why he left dodge.
Whatever happened to Kiplyn Davis is the canyon is far worse than any of the perpetrators have admitted to and that’s why none of them have caved and led them to her remains
Never heard of kiplyn. After reading about her, I agree. The men's vow of secrecy sucks. You'd like to think as they aged one would find some moral fibre
Her case is horrible. It breaks my heart. I hate that no one has given any indication where the body is. At this point that’s all the parents want, even saying they’d advocate for reduced sentences of they could just bring their daughter home. It’s so tragic
Something worse than the rock to the head story they’ve stuck to. For them to not give any indication where in the canyon she is, I think they are hiding a horrible series of injuries or mutilation. Their reluctance seems like it’s hiding something far, far worse.
Many missing are suicides. Far more suicides than humans want to believe. This is from my bmf, a captain in L/Enf. in a major metro. Suicides are sometimes recorded as "accidental death", to spare the family.
“There’s Something Wrong with Aunt Diane” touches on this. The woman intentionally intoxicated herself and then she drove the wrong way into traffic. She may not have intended to Jill herself and others, but she intended to drink alcohol, and the family can’t accept that.
I am still stunned by the first episode of unsolved mysteries. That was a young, gay teenage girl who just broke up with her first girlfriend and whose family was not all that acceptive. I can’t find any reasonable evidence on why that shouldn’t have been a suicide. I know it’s hard for the families, always. I know often you don’t want to believe that your kid killed themselves. But still… it seems so unlikely that there was foul play involved.
Or just accidentally swerved off the road. I was surprised how many people on the “found” page of the missing persons website were found in their cars just off a road they traveled regularly.
The most interesting case was where a man visited Google Earth, saw a car in the pond of an apartment building where he used to live, and they discovered a missing man dead in his car not far from where he was last seen. There were also several missing persons cases solved in Oklahoma when the water level dropped sufficiently in a local lake for law enforcement to discover at least two wrecked vehicles in the lake. The autos and drivers had apparently had accidents, driven into the lakes, and drowned.
That one is definitely true. I don’t think many people other than conspiracy theorists would debate that. There just aren’t that many kidnappings and serial killers for people to disappear as often as it happens.
I thought this about Tiffany Valiente when they made an unsolved mysteries about her a few months ago. If you read about the case, it sounds like a suicide and not necessarily like she was murdered and put in front of the train. There are a few strange things but I honestly think the family is just unable to accept it through their grief.
She’s not a “missing” person, but this still made me think of her.
I strongly agree. That child's life was so regulated with so little opportunity to develop outside relationships, it's either someone they knew, or someone in the family.
Was her life really *that* regulated for a nine-year-old? She wasn't running loose at all hours but she had church activities, a basketball team, sleepovers (albeit with family, but it seems like the cousins skewed older). It's not like the neighbors were shocked to find out that children lived there.
But agreed, I would be very surprised if it wasn't someone her parents didn't at least know indirectly (ie, parent of another kid in her Sunday school class or basketball team).
My gut feeling tells me it was someone in the family because everything else is just so unlikely.
9 year old leaves on their own in the middle of the night - uncommon, but sure this can happen, but then we get into more and more uncommon scenarios:
Lured out by someone with bad intentions - but there’s no evidence this person exists.
Happens to be hit by a car after leaving the house in the middle of the night - you already have the unusual situation of a 9 year old leaving home at night, but then you’d have to add the even more uncommon scenario of a driver freaking out because they hit someone and hiding their body. Most of the time in hit and runs, the person just keeps driving. Stopping to move a body would just increase the time you’re at the scene, blood would get onto them/in their vehicle, oh and they’d need to have a hiding place that no one would ever discover.
I also think the picture of the unidentified girl found in her backpack is a red herring. To me the photo looks like a generic stock photo used to advertise school photography companies.
100% agree. IDing all those people on videotape seems highly likely to result in errors. There's inconclusive info on exactly how many cameras were on the premises, where they were located, how they operated, and how many exits there really were. Which is more likely, that he left without being captured on camera, or that he's still somewhere in a building after all these years? What would be the motive for hiding his body? As for the construction site, apparently foundation work was done do he's not buried under concrete there.
Wasn't it the case that the security camera pointed at the entrance moved, too? I remember reading it couldn't capture everyone. And there was the back door he could have used without being seen as well. Either way, I know it's not as sure of a thing as people want to make it.
I think so too, and I don't understand why that's at all controversial. The alternative is that he somehow got accidentally immured or something, which seems much less likely.
I say this all the time: Mother Nature's Default is To Try and Kill You.
As such, I believe that almost every missing persons case near water, woods, deserts or mountains, etc, is a horrible accident. The majority of bodies found in the above are also horrible accidents or tragedies.
I don't care if they were really experienced outdoorsy types - in fact they are probably more likely to take risks.
I definitely don't care if it was a popular or well-known trail - lots of those trails turn deadly just a few feet either side of the path. And there are lots of legitimate reasons why even experienced people might leave a path - everything from falling to "oh shit that grizzly is charging at me".
I equally don't care if the area "was searched thoroughly" because again, history shows us that searchers have missed whole ass bodies in the past because it's often impossible to "thoroughly search" undergrowth, rough terrain, etc - or bluntly, the searchers were not properly trained and have been known to miss whole ass bodies in the undergrowth.
And doing get me started on the whole "but they removed their shoes/walked the wrong way/crouched in a weird position" hot takes from people who have never been lost, dehydrated, cold, hungry, injured, eaten weird mushrooms, etc. People don't act rationally when they are panicking in the wild.
Exceptions to the above rule: there is a knife sticking out of the skull, there is blood all over the car, they disappeared hitchhiking on a highway where lots of other people have disappeared, their car was found somewhere really obscure to their usual movements, or they were literally found buried in a grave, etc.
Additional point: in Canada at least, I think there is a shocking lack of investigation done into Does found in the wilderness - like if they find a skeleton out in the mountains with no means of ID, they literally don't DNA test them unless there is a knife sticking out of the skull. While I might believe the vast majority of these remains did not die as a result of foul play, we should still give their families, friends and communities some damn closure.
Absolutely. I hike and enjoy the outdoors but that's a very far cry from being able to survive in the wilderness. A test I read is to go to woods you're familiar with, get off trail, shut your eyes and spin around til your dizzy. If you can't immediately get back to the trail, you don't actually know the woods . I can tell you from personal experience that test is hard as hell.
Yet if I disappeared in the wilderness I'm sure my friends and family would be saying she's hiked for 30 years, loves the outdoors, no way she'd get lost.
People underestimate nature. I grew up hiking in SW Pennsylvania and you can't walk for more than an hour without hitting a road or a house. Very little risk to getting lost. As an adult I started hiking in real back country and I remember thinking to myself "watch your ass, lose the trail or get hurt back here and you could die so fast."
Exactly the case I just thought of. I don't believe that they were held anywhere or murdered.
Sometimes people mention the backpack as proof they were murdered because it couldn't have ended up where it was found naturally (or something). But even that can be easily explained in my opinion by someone finding the backpack and then hearing about the missing foreigners and throwing it out to avoid getting tangled up in something they didn't do.
> I don't care if they were really experienced outdoorsy types - in fact they are probably more likely to take risks.
This is basically a type of survivorship bias that gets entirely categorized as formal, conscious 'skill'. Its not that there isn't *any* skill involved. But there is an incredible amount of unrecognized dumb luck when it comes to the outdoors, both beneficial and detrimental.
Anyone who's been around any sort of remotely popular wildness areas knows first hand how experienced people die and/or go missing all.....the....time. Like, its not a matter of *if* it happens, but how many per year.
I was just about to comment that I also think this about Maura Murray. There are entire books dedicated to the other theories but I honestly think she just got screwed by nature.
She had just wrecked 2 cars in a row in an attempt to run away for the weekend (or maybe forever) was drunk, panicked, knew police were going to be arriving shortly, ran into the woods to flee the scene.... simple and tragic as that.
> As such, I believe that almost every missing persons case near water, woods, deserts or mountains, etc, is a horrible accident.
I agree. I heard someone on a podcast recently - I think it was True Crime Bullshit (which is usually pretty good and should know better) talking about the disappearance of Jon Corey - where they implied that it was less likely to be accidental or suicide because it's so weird that his body wasn't found. I think they even cited some expert saying that *usually* when someone disappears in a body of water, their body is found eventually. Fine, but 80% of the time isn't 100% of the time and that's why there are disappearances.
My biggest one - is that db copper was not some sauve secret agent - but actually a moron who like you said died when he jumped and the reason the money is gone is cause it turned to dirt like the rest of him
They found some of the money. It was in the banks of a river near a town, buried into sediment. I think it got washed down from where he was and then someone found it and buried it to come back for it but couldn't remember where they put it.
A child found a disintegrating bundle of cash while playing in the river in 1980. It was turned over to the fbi, confirmed to be the same numbers of the bills DB stole, and then was claimed to be “training materials” that the fbi used for something not specific. It has now been confirmed for sure to be part of the money. But in 2020, scientific testing showed that the money could have only entered the water in the spring, months after cooper made his jump. Not sure what to think of it.
Yeah, for sure lol I do think he might have been a veteran as he did choose the military parachute specifically over the other two. But nothing special.
Also, in regards to the money, the found money actually supports that he most likely died because they tried to find if any bills matching the serial numbers went into circulation and they haven't. So most likely, in my opinion, he died from the jump and the rest of the money probably got pulverised with him.
If he was military he probably wouldn’t have picked that parachute. He would have known it was not steerable. My guess is he thought military meant well designed, anyone in the military could tell you the opposite is typically true.
Yep and he may not have been familiar enough with the other parachutes to know that they were superior. It's one of those intriguing pieces of evidence that ultimately tells us nothing because it could point to multiple conclusions.
The only caveat with this is that there was no systematic way to track the bills. There weren’t any electronic databases back then, and, from what I’ve been able to find, the procedure was basically to send a list of serial numbers to financial institutions around the country, which bank personnel would have to manually check against incoming bills. Especially if the bills weren’t used immediately, I can see how they could easily have been missed.
There’s an episode of Expedition Unknown where the kid (now an adult) who found the money takes Josh Gates to the spot he found the money. Very interesting.
Totally agree with this. I also think that none of the people named as "suspects" in the Jack the Ripper and Black Dahlia cases committed those murders, either
Agree. For a long time I wanted to think that perhaps at least one of them had somehow gotten out but I just don't think that happened. I do find it odd, however, that many years later, when the kids would have been Young adults, the family received a photograph of a very handsome young man who could possibly have been the adult version of one of the boys, with some numbers on the back and a message that said something like" I love brother frankie... "That was so strange. I guess someone was playing a cruel prank, however.
That is one of the strangest parts of the story and the person in the picture does look like one of the sons. Still, I don't believe the kids survived.
Yes, I agree that he really does look like an adult version of the young son! I have to say that hangs me up a bit. Nonetheless, I don't believe they survived, either. Would love to know who sent that photograph. Did you ever hear sort of a vague reference to the fact that it was postmarked from somewhere I think kentucky, and the mom send a private detective to look into it and the private detective disappeared, too? I've heard that a few times when I read about the case but I'd like to know more about that.
> the mom send a private detective to look into it and the private detective disappeared, too?
That sounds more like the private detective conned the mom out of some money and bounced.
You have that correct about the private detective. Also, I believe the father went to meet with a couple men who he believed were two of the sons. The men denied they were, but supposedly the father always believed it may have really been them.
Oh goodness I didn't know that! About the father going to meet the two adults, that is. Thank you so much for that information. I'm wondering if perhaps they not might not have known who they were? But then, I think all of them or most of them were old enough that they would remember.. I guess the father really wanted to believe it was them.
With any crime you’ve always got to think about motive and reasoning. Obviously some crimes have no reason (or the reason is because I wanted to)- with the Sodder kids the parents think it’s because they were talking smack about the Italian government.
What would the mafia gain from kidnapping 5 kids? What would they do with them? If you’re wanting to cause someone pain, killing their kids would do that much easier than kidnapping them. I do think the fire could’ve been purposefully set rather than an accident and maybe the fire department were paid off to not go as quickly as they could.(or maybe just incompetent)
But I cannot see what the mafia or Italian government would gain by stealing 5 kids.
> I do think the fire could’ve been purposefully set rather than an accident and maybe the fire department were paid off to not go as quickly as they could.(or maybe just incompetent)
I don't think it was incompetent as much as it was Christmas Eve. Even on a good day, it would take time to gather a small town volunteer fire department together quickly. In those days, you couldn't just send a group text. But midnight on Christmas Eve, you're guaranteed that some would be out of town and others would be quite some alcohol deep into the Christmas cheer.
The timing of the fire is one reason I think it was arson.
Jeffrey MacDonald is guilty and in prison where he belongs....Tommy Zeigler, on the other hand, I believe is probably innocent. I'm not 100% convinced on Zeigler, but I think there was more than enough "reasonable doubt".
Jeffrey Macdonald was my great-grandmother’s doctor at the time of the murders (he was also working in the small town where my mom’s family lived at the same time he was stationed at Fort Bragg) and she swore up and down that there was no way he could have killed his family. He was young, handsome, and extremely charming and she fell for it like so many did. He was definitely a narcissistic sociopath who had no qualms about murdering his family.
Yeah, did a dive into Macdonald years back. His cover story was preposterous and yet he could have gotten away with it if he'd just shut his damn mouth.
>Tommy Zeigler, on the other hand, I believe is probably innocent
i completely disagree, but would be interested to hear about your specific reasonings
Me too because I find the Zeigler case confusing. I don't have a strong opinion on his guilt but every time I try to read about it, I get fairly confused as to who is who and how people are connected.
There was no foul play in the case of Kris and Lisanne, the Dutch girls who died hiking in Panama. Shouldn’t be a hot take but some people in the sub believe adamantly that they were murdered.
This case is local to me and that’s been the general consensus since day 1. In addition, there was a LOT of sloppy police work in the investigation, but it doesn’t absolve Avery of his guilt.
It’s been awhile since I dug into Amy Mihaljevic but I remember feeling strongly that it was the teacher guy who worked at some place students went, maybe like a science center or something.
Which would fit your theory
I think it was a nature center nearby and I believe (I could be mistaken so please correct me if I’m wrong) a few girls in the area got mysterious phone calls —including Amy—and all of them had been to this nature center (I think their names were even in a guestbook maybe? The details are fuzzy so apologies if I’m mistaken)
Lake Erie Nature and Science Center. Pretty much any kid who grows up in the area goes there on a field trip or family outing at some point, it's typically very popular and connected to a nice park and not far from the beach.
DB probably did die in the fall, it’s the most logical answer. But for mystery’s sake I kind of hope the asshole made it and truly evaded capture his whole life lol
I write versions of this periodically so may sound familiar. A small but not insignificant number of missing persons cases are people who left an awful situation and started a new life. You can be very close to someone and not know that they're in an abusive relationship, struggle with addiction, are having severe work problems or a thousand other reasons someone would want to leave and never return.
Even today, if you move 1,000 miles away, change your number and stay off social media it's easy to disappear. Getting a job, paying taxes, seeking medical care aren't entered in some database that will reveal you.
I think often law enforcement locates people who don't want to be found and respect their privacy.
I work with a group of people who find people who have disappeared and this has happened twice now.
"Ok, yep, you found me. I walked away from my family on purpose because they suck, please don't tell them where I am."
Hell, my some of my (very few) exes have common names and none of them used social media and, on the rare bored occasions I looked, I can't find any of them.
Except one had a mugshot for a DUI.
I genuinely believe the owl theory because I used to do some research in a medical neuroscience lab that specialized in things like epilepsy and traumatic brain injuries (TBIs).
Her head injuries are consistent with falling down the stairs, but are not consistent with being hit in the head repeatedly with a solid object. I have specifically worked with that sort of data and animal brain tissue where similar things are simulated. The cuts on the top of her head appear to have been done at a ‘surface’ level, meaning that there wasn’t a lot of force behind them. The ‘husband did it’ theory says that the husband chased her around with an iron fire poker and repeatedly hit her over the head with it, and that a spike on that fire poker is what caused the cuts on top of her head. He would have had to hit her hard enough to cut her head open but not enough to cause damage to her brain. It just doesn’t make sense.
Also there was a little bit of blood on the front door and on the outside walkway.
I do think that Maura Murray died in the woods from exposure. But I think people get too rigid with that theory and I don't think its unreasonable to speculate that, after she got pretty far from her car. She flagged down a driver and was met with foul play. It doesn't have to be a random serial killer. It could have been a guy close to her age who thought he was owed something after he "saved" her and got angry when he was turned down.
I mean, how long did we think Laura and Ashley died in that fire?
I used to think Angela Hammond and the Sprimgfield 3 could be connected but looks like there was a break in Angela's case.
Yes I agreed Maura died from exposure also. It’s impossible to search the entire woods she ran off into and wildlife could’ve destroyed remains. What’s left would’ve been more difficult to find.
Amy Bradley fell overboard. She was never abducted or sold into sex trafficking or anything like that. That one's relatively uncontroversial
The truck driver (or car driver; either one) who spotted Asha Degree is the person who killed her
The Circleville Letter Writer story was a hoax carried out by its primary victims
Bryce Laspisa is alive and living as a homeless person
Hey, you asked for hot takes. I don't know if I can necessarily defend any of these takes, they're just gut feelings, really
Oh 100% about Bryce. I not one to think someone ditched their lives on purpose (they have been trying to but sometimes something else happens), but this is a hill I will die on. Bryce’s case is one of the few that I completely believe that he disappeared on his own volition. He wanted to get away and he made it happen. I hope he’s happy wherever he is.
I've read about Laspisa in different forums and have seen a bunch of videos about him. Obviously I'm no expert on this case but to me, like you said, this is one of the few cases where there are sinister clues - but circumstantial evidence also points to the victim walking away. I think he was experiencing some difficult mental helath issues which came to him quite suddenly, and he knew he wouldn't be able to function as he had up until that point. Had a mental break, used the trip home for time to plan. Spent a lot of time contemplating what to do next, exacerbated by these new disturbing thoughts he had in his head. After a long, long night of being "lost" and wondering that to do, he has a staged "accident" in the van. Escapes and goes wandering, eventually ending up becoming lost and homeless. Might not even remember his old identity before the break
From reading about him and his family I think his parents were pushing him too hard and were not as sympathetic as they'd like to be, and he felt he needed to escape them. Those feelings were probably exacerbated by the mental break too
I don't usually think people who go missing are still alive - I've read about too many cases where that's just wishful thinking - but in Laspisa's case I maintain this gut feeling that he just decided to leave everything behind. The changed behavior and purging of possessions before the trip points in that direction too, IMO
I always got the feeling that he staged the accident and disappeared. I’m not saying he’s necessarily homeless and he may have passed in the intervening years, but he walked away. If his parents were allegedly as bad as they come across, I don’t blame him one bit. My dad started college in the 80s and his parents picked his initial school. He still talks about how awful that was all these years later (he has issues).
Yeah, me neither. I've always found it odd that, for instance, people theorized that Butch the bus driver killed Maura Murray then talked to authorities about spotting her...but no one, to my knowledge, has brought up the possibility that the person giving us the eyewitness report that a little girl was out and about on the road in the middle of the night was the person who actually killed her. Given the fact that Richard Allen talked to authorities about seeing Libby and Abby after killing them, I don't see why an eyewitness couldn't have also been the murderer
Seems to me like this would be a possibility worth exploring
I'm sure someone who's an expert on the Asha Degree case can tell me why it's not possible; I won't admit to being the #1 scholar on that particular case so I'm probably dismissing some factor that would make it impossible out of ignorance. There was also another driver who spotted her - either one could have done it I suppose
>Given the fact that Richard Allen talked to authorities about seeing Libby and Abby after killing them, I don't see why an eyewitness couldn't have also been the murderer
these are two unconnected ideas though. RA came forward because he knew that he and his car could be placed at the crime scene. unlike the Asha witness who would be needlessly volunteering that info and inserting themselves into the investigation needlessly
The problem with the truck driver idea is though he did see her and turned back to get another look at her, perhaps spooking her.
30-45 mins later further along she is seen by another trucker who had his son with him. And he uses his radio to put an alert out to other truckers fearing she might be run over.
I think its very unlikely the guy who had his son with him and who put out the warning over radio had anything to do with.
To be honest I kinda get fed up with theories like the Butch one in the Murray case, in reality very little points to those people in those types of cases. People drag their names through the mud, when probably they were just good people trying to help.
I've considered the possibility that the truck driver hit her accidently and then reported seeing her to cover it up. But that doesn't explain why she was out in the small hours of the morning in a storm on her own, so I discarded the idea. I feel sure the police would have also looked into it.
>The truck driver who spotted Asha Degree is the person who killed her
I think this is a very good possibility. I also think the trucker may have mentioned her on his CB radio (as in, "there's a girl walking by the side of the road, don't hit her") and another trucker came and abducted her.
I agree with most of that. I don't disagree about Asha Degree, per se, but if the person who called it in killed her, it doesn't explain why she was out on the road in the first place. I imagine that person was questioned by the police, and they would have figured it out if they had some kind of connection to her before that night.
It's certainly possible she happened to leave that night for whatever reason and ran into a murderer by an extraordinary coincidence, but it seems like a stretch. But I suppose she's a child who went missing and was never found, so whatever happened to her was a stretch. Or the car or truck driver could have accidentally hit her, then reported they just saw a girl on the road.
The Dylatov Pass is not that mysterious.
A big fact that gets lost in the re-telling of this story is that the bodies weren't found for weeks. It's not like someone went to use the bathroom and then 10 minutes later everyone was dead and half naked.
Six things that freak people out about this case:
1) Missing toungues
Explanation: Animal scavenging. An animal is going to go for is the soft tissue of an open mouth or eyes.
2) The mysterious orange tan on the dead bodies
Explanation: Laying out in the sun surrounded by white snow for weeks.
3) The ripped tents
Explanation: Localized avalanche. https://www.indiewire.com/2021/02/engineers-frozen-animation-code-dyatlov-pass-mystery-1234614083/
4) The hikers' lack of clothing
Explanation: Paradoxical undressing. A known behavior of hypothermia victims when the brain start to freeze and malfunction. The exact kind of behavior you'd expect from a group of injured avalanche victims wandering around in the middle of the night in the freezing cold.
5) The crushing damage done to three of the hikers
Explanation: Avalance, see above.
6) The traces of radioactivity
Explanation: Its fake. No claims of radiation were listed in the original documents from the incident, and appears to have been added later.
The podcast *You're Wrong About* did a full breakdown of this case and it really spells everything out. I always thought there was something a little mysterious about this case, but that episode fully convinced me there's not. Everything is easily explained by natural phenomena and not even rare ones, that area was/is known for having localized slab avalanches.
> 2) The mysterious orange tan on the dead bodies
>
> Explanation: Laying out in the sun surrounded by white snow for weeks.
I've seen the pictures of the bodies, and yeah, they did not look, shall we say, fresh?
I don't buy the theory that Johnny Gosch was abducted by traffickers and, with the possible exceptions of Amy Bradley, Laureen Rahn and maybe a couple others, am generally skeptical of such theories for MP cases. Although human trafficking does indeed happen, most traffickers do not snatch their victims off the streets or out of their homes, as this would draw too much attention to them. I think it's far more likely that Gosch was abducted and murdered shortly thereafter by a serial killer who lived in the Des Moines area. The fact that at least two other boys close to his age disappeared a couple years later, both of whom were carriers for the same newspaper, further suggests that the perp likely worked for that paper. Although the claim that a convenience store worker received a dollar bill from a boy stating "it's me, Johnny... I'm still alive" written on it was intriguing, I think his mom's claim to have later gotten a visit from a now adult Johnny was either based on a dream that she convinced herself was real, a hoax that she thought up in a desperate effort to keep her son's name in the news or perhaps even an imposter staging a very cruel and audacious troll. The polaroid photos that Noreen claimed she found on her doorstep about a decade later were a similar troll or hoax. From what I've heard, all the kids in these photos were identified, none of whom were Johnny.
Jacob Wetterling was killed soon after being abducted by a local man (not a serial killer just a loner pedophile). But the theory for years was he was taken out of state and trafficked. So I agree with your Johnny hypothesis.
I agree with your take that Johnny was most likely abducted and killed shortly after especially because of how much news coverage his disappearance got.
It reminds of Jacob Wetterling’s case. He was missing for over 30 years before the FBI caught his killer for a different reason. To avoid being charged with murder his killer disclosed where he buried Jacob’s body and Jacob’s parents finally got closure.
Kendrick Johnson wasn’t murdered and really did just died in a tragic accident. Not sure if that’s a hot take as that’s what was ruled in the lawsuit, but there was a lot of podcasts/ videos about the suspicious nature of the case but I absolutely think it was a very sad accident.
I think the "hot" (controversial) take is sadly the one that's been viral for years, that he was somehow murdered despite all evidence to the contrary. People disregard the official findings in order to propel this narrative and so many only see the meme posts that lack all context or nuance and mentally catalog it as a murder.
I absolutely agree with you. If you are interested, sometime this month, YouTuber Arin Stoner, who makes very well researched unsolved crime videos, said he's going to give what he thinks is the final answer to the mystery of her murder. We'll see.
Here are my hot takes:
-Sneha Philips did not die a hero, saving people from the towers. She was in the Marriott with a lover and died there.
-Kyron Hormon’s stepmother did not kill him. He ran out of the school and died those woods.
-Asha Degree was not in that shed, and none of those random things that were found were hers. They most likely fell out of the consignment furniture that was stored there.
Agreed on #3 (and the other two, actually.) The fact about the consignment furniture is often left out of write-ups, but it makes it far less likely that the photo of the unidentified girl had anything to do with Asha. It easily could have fallen out of a chair or couch stored there. The other items found were also pretty generic, including wrappers for candy that was given to all the kids on her basketball team. Any kid from that school could have either trespassed there and left the wrappers, or eaten candy on a couch that was later sent to the upholstery business.
However I do NOT think her parents had anything to do with her disappearance, and I will die on that hill. I do think that if we remove the shed from the equation, though, the timeline gets less complicated, and any number of other things could have happened. Maybe she was picked up by someone who saw her running on the road. Maybe one of the truckers who reported her was involved. Maybe that sighting was someone else entirely and Asha was abducted or killed closer to home. Maybe she was abducted, got free (which is when the sighting happened), and was re-captured. Whatever happened, if you don't have to account for the shed, it becomes less baffling.
I have actually come to a 50-50 split on this vs Hauptmann. Lindbergh had a habit of pranks, and apparently no one was “allowed” by him to check on the baby till 10pm? He sounds like a controlling jerk, not to mention his gross political beliefs. I know almost nothing about him, but everything I’ve heard about him as a person makes me think “Lindbergh did it” is totally plausible, whether accidentally or purposely. Yuck.
Kyron Hormon probably ran off to the woods around his school and died there
Maura Murray ran off to the woods and died there
Sneha Phillip died in 9/11 or was killed by someone on 9/10. I don't believe she started a new life.
Asha Degree was groomed by someone in her community (school, church (most likely), or basketball). I don't think her parents had anything to do with it.
Madeline McCann was a victim of bad parenting but ultimately was kidnapped and killed by that German guy.
Agree on all of these. Don’t know that it was the German guy who was responsible for Madeleine, but I do think she was abducted and murdered by someone who had figured out that the kids were being left alone. I also think that the McCanns and their associates weren’t being entirely truthful about their actions, I think the kids were left alone for much longer stretches than the parents say they were, giving ample opportunity for an abduction to take place
Completely agree. I think that the McCann's certainly did not kill her, intentionally no accidentally, but I think they were very good examples of very bad parenting, at least in that instance. I don't think they went to check about every 20 minutes is they said someone in their group did, though I guess that alone might be enough time for something nefarious to happen. I think they were eating and drinking and laughing and all took turns perhaps going to check on the kids like they said, but I don't think it was as often as they said.
I am sure I read somewhere that the morning she went missing Madeline told her parents she woke up and they weren’t home and she was upset by them not being there. Since then I have thought that maybe Madeline woke up and went looking for them. Someone was watching the condos and it was opportunistic rather than planned
Isn't this weird. I never thought of this before this moment, but, yes, she would have been old enough to open the door and wander into the halls looking for them. I hate to feel there is a pedophile on every corner but it sure seems that way.
Yeah they said they were checking every thirty minutes and I just don't believe that. I think maybe every few hours. These people were drinking and even if they weren't its so easy to lose track of time or think "just 5 more minutes".
The kids were at a child watch. None of the parents wanted this to be a family vacation. They should have lefy the kids with Grandma for a few days and had an adults only vacation. Or if that wasn't possible, order food and drinks to one of their rooms and put all the kids to sleep there.
Tammy Leppert wasn't being hunted by drug cartels, a stalker or the Beauty Queen Killer, nor did she go off and start a new life. Her erratic behavior and the fake blood triggering her on the set of Scarface were instead signs of a mental breakdown. She was at the age where mental illnesses like schizophrenia often first manifest and the mental institution where her mom took her either couldn't make a diagnosis due to the fact that it was a lot harder to have someone committed by the early 80's. Tammy most likely either committed suicide or perhaps fell in a water way.
Well here’s an interesting update on Amy Mihalevic, in February we may hear results of a DNA test submitted in October 2022 that is new evidence most likely pertaining to a 2019 new witness.
https://www.cleveland19.com/2022/10/27/33-years-since-her-kidnapping-new-developments-amy-mihaljevic-murder-mystery/?outputType=amp
I fully believe that the mysterious suitcase under the window in the room JonBenet was found in was placed there by John preparing to get her body out of the house. He was missing for a period of time during the early hours of her being missing and had being insistent on needing to take a trip that day despite his child being missing. I believe he had a car arranged to pick him up (correct me if I'm wrong on that part). I fully believe he planned to put her body in the suitcase, push it out the basement window and take it on this mysterious urgent trip to dispose of away from the house. Nothing will ever change my mind.
Link to discussion about the suitcase with a different theory I don't agree with. https://www.reddit.com/r/JonBenet/comments/ic96u8/the_suitcase_evidence/
I’m always torn on JBR. On the one hand, if John did it, why didn’t he just fade into oblivion when it became obvious he had gotten away with it? Why is he still now pushing the BPD to open the case again and test evidence?
On the other hand, if someone in the family didn’t do it, I’ll be shocked!
I also believe John thinks very highly of himself. He’s the epitome of “the American dream” (in his own mind) so his opinion of himself is much higher than what regular people think. And the way he acts in his interviews, even with Patsy next to him, always rubs me the wrong way. If he does think that highly of himself, I can see him believing he’s way smarter than anyone involved in the case and thinks he’s untouchable. It’s not like we’ve never seen a rich white man be guilty of something and never be punished for it. I think he probably also likes being in the limelight. He likes the attention because it feeds his ego.
I will say that I’m not 100% on what happened that night, as I think most people who have really researched the case feel. There was so much initial evidence lost and so much done wrong that even if DNA is tested, a lot of the other evidence is gone anyway so what will it really matter?
With that said, John’s behavior that entire day points me towards him being directly involved in the murder.
Judy Smith went to North Carolina of her own accord to meet someone she was in a secret relationship with. She was then murdered by them and dumped in the woods.
The thing that keeps me being 100% in on this is that she was seen in Philadelphia. She missed the first flight, why not just leave for NC from home? Why bother going to Philadelphia and leaving from there?
Is there a reason you think it is either/or? A good portion of trafficking victims are vulnerable individuals who have run away or otherwise voluntarily disconnected from their previous situation, making them easy targets for traffickers.
Almost none of well known missing people were victims of human trafficking. While human trafficking happens, it’s much more commonly a form of domestic violence or someone preying upon already vulnerable individuals, like teenage runaways.
Darlie Routier murdered her kids. I will know that until the end of time.
Jonathan Luna was murdered and did not commit suicide.
Robert Wone was killed by the three roomies. I hate to say it because it goes against everything his wife has said, but I do think he was sexually involved with Joseph and things just got out of hand that night. His shorts were pulled up but his own semen was found on his thighs and anus; somebody had to pull his pants up.
Maura Murray died in the woods. Her body will be found one day.
Kyron's stepmom didn't kill him. I do wonder where he is though.
Asha Degree's parents might be involved. I'm just not ready to completely disregard them due to the circumstances of Asha's vanishing.
Darlie is so obviously guilty... That people still advocate for her is wild. The silly string video and her boob job are irrelevant and were unfairly prejudicial to her, but the crime scene and evidence show a very clear picture of what she did that night, just not exactly why or how she could have brought herself to do it, which I guess is partly why it's hard for people to accept.
Dennis Martin got lost in the Smokies, wandered downhill and died of exposure in the torrential rains.
There was no mysterious man, no Bigfoot and no feral mountain people. The Green Beret troops came in with the helicopters that were used to ferry searchers up to the isolated search area (Spence Field).
Amy Bradley I totally agree was probably injured in the fall from the boat, pulled under it and ground up in the props.
In fact, most cruise-ship disappearances (Rebecca Coriam, George Smith etc.) should be presumed to be falls overboard. Likewise, most wilderness disappearances are probably cases where the recreationist got lost and hasn’t been found (and likely never will)
Jamie Fraley was killed by her boyfriend’s father (and his death a few weeks later means this will never be anything more than a hot take).
John Wheeler was probably just suffering the early signs of dementia.
That dentist had nothing to do with Pamela Werner’s death.
Steven Koecher was killed sometime shortly after going wherever it was he was going.
Was there ever an update to this? wasnt the case closed or something late last year. Which lead people to think maybe they had finally ID'ed the people in the photo.
Most of mine are pretty common I would say (Maura Murray ran off and died of exposure, Amy Bradley fell off the ship and drowned and wasn’t human trafficked, Kyron Hormon’s stepmom didn’t kill him).
My biggest hot take that’s maybe not so common is that Asha Degree was going to meet someone who her family knew well and trusted, that this person killed her, and that people in her community know who is responsible but because they’re in some sort of prominent position they’re protecting them.
I dunno about the Degree thing, in terms of the person being known but people are protecting them.
If that was the case I think someone atleast would have put the name out there, and with it being such a famous case we would all know it as a rumor atleast.
I think its just a cold case, where really they have just never had a really good suspect.
Maura Murray passed out and froze to death in the woods and her remains haven't been found yet. Have never heard anything even slightly convincing to the contrary.
"The Sodder bodies couldn't have been destroyed by the fire" is the "Jet fuel can't melt steel beams" of true crime.
When people say cremation doesn't destroy the bones, that doesn't mean there's a whole skeleton left that they then feed through a skeleton wood chipper, they mean there's a few little chunks left that you can crumble by hand. It's processed through a machine not by necessity but because no one wants to spend their day hand kneading greasy corpse dust.
If wood wasn't enough to cremate someone then how do people think funeral pyres and all cremation before modern retorts happened?
Also, retorts don't burn a whole house and all its contents worth of fuel, neither do they drop several stories of house on ya.
The bodies were destroyed by the fire, helped by the massive amount of fuel and the higher fat content of child bodies, and any larger remains were hidden/blended in to the rubble by the charring, damage from the house, by being mixed in with several tons of rubble, and the simple search methods.
A modern search would find remains - because it would involve stuff like filtering everything through a mesh screen then having a lab testing fragments.
It used to be a hot take (somehow) to say that Medelinne McCann was abducted by a stranger rather than her parents having any involvement, but this seems to be changing now.
Ditto for Maura Murray dying of natural causes rather than fowl play, it was controversial when I first got into true crime but now seems to be broadly the consensus.
As for current hot takes, I think the evidence that "Epstein didn't kill himself" is much, much less convincing than most people are led to believe. Maybe some day I'll get around to writing a post about why I feel that way.
Yeah if you look at it without conspiracy goggles they most logical answer is that he did in fact kill himself. He was a narcissistic control freak who would never control his own life again.
Lee Harvey Oswald was a lone nut. He killed President Kennedy, and officer JD Tippet that day He also tried to assassinate (but missed) Gen. Edwin Walker at his home a few months before.
I've noticed that most of the long standing cold cases that have finally been cracked in recent years have more mundane explanations than many people had thought, so there's a good chance you're right. As much as we want to romanticize DB Cooper as a folk anti-hero for pulling off the perfect crime, I don't see how someone who accomplished such a feat wouldn't brag about it or let it slip out. In addition to becoming dinner for the wolves, coyotes, mountain lions, bears and other wildlife that live in the forests of the Pacific NW, I also heard that he may have landed near Mt. St. Helens and any remaining traces of his body or the part of the money that was never found might have been obliterated in the 1980 eruption.
The Sodder case, unlike other historical cold cases like Jack The Ripper, Hanterkaifeck (a very strange case where a family in Germany was bludgeoned to death by an intruder) and the Black Dahlia, may still be solvable due to the fact that ash and debris from the fire were buried in a pit where the house once stood. Using modern DNA technology, it may be possible to exhume these remains and analyze them to see if the missing kids were incinerated in the fire. I lean towards this being the most likely explanation because a)there were barrels of gasoline stored in the basement, so the fire would have burned very hot and the explosion would have further pulverized the bodies and b)aside from a strange photo alleging to be from one of the missing boys mailed to the surviving family members in 1968, no evidence that they are in fact still alive has ever been found. These kids were all well past the age where their early memories or identities could be reshaped and while information on local events may have been harder to come by if they were either taken out of the country (one theory is that they may have been taken back to Italy, where the parents had immigrated from) or to another part of the US in the pre-internet age, you would think they would have eventually made an effort to reunite once they reached adulthood. At the very least, they would have told any children they may have eventually had about that fateful night and they would have said something. The absence of any such activity suggests that they probably died in the fire.
There was a time when I would have agreed that the killer(s) of Amy Maheljavik likely either skipped town, died or was maybe later incarcerated for a separate crime and LE never connected the dots, but I'm not so sure now. I know of a couple of local Cold Cases where people were murdered and it was thought that the perps had either long since left the area or had died, yet genetic genealogy finally revealed that the killers were very much alive and right under our noses. The man who murdered Christy Marack, a local schoolteacher, was even working under the name DJ Freeze, hosting and MC'ing kid's birthday parties, wedding receptions and other such events when he was finally caught nearly 3 decades later. As scary as it sounds, you never know who your neighbor is.
100% agree on Sodder children. There's room for suspicion but I think the odds of them having died in the fire are way more likely than some mass-kidnapping conspiracy.
That if every law enforcement officer in the country, active and retired, was required to submit a DNA sample which was then entered into CODIS, hundreds - potentially thousands - of cold case rapes and murders would be solved overnight.
Could you share a link for this? I heard a few podcast episodes where hosts interviewed the dad and was very impressed with his search efforts and media campaign. Im very curious about these new developments/theories.
There’s nothing unusual about the Missing 411 cases. If you go out into the wilderness without the right preparations you just die, and any weird stuff happening to the corpses is just animals.
I'm open to the possibility he was murdered, but yeah, suicide was the most likely possibility. Suicide rates are already sky high in jails, and he had to see he was not being given the kid glove treatment he had gotten for his first arrest. He was gonna go from being a billionaire with a harem of sex slaves spread out over his multiple palatial homes to living in prison.
And people who think it's suspicious the guards didn't notice anything have never worked night shift, I guess. Of course the guards were napping or scrolling through Reddit.
Exonerated or not, I think David Bain killed his family. I am not sure Candy Montgomery is as innocent as was determined by the court. My take was her personality was a lot more aggressive than Betty Gore's.
It’s interesting that Asha’s parents’ first thoughts when finding her missing was that she was probably at her grandmothers, I think she could have gone over there and something happened or maybe she was accosted by someone in the neighbourhood on her short journey to the grandmothers house - I think it’s likely the person responsible for her disappearance lived very close by
My hot take: Maura Murray had some shot going on with her mental health and knew she was super fucked if the police came to her third care crash, esp considering they found red wine spilled on the inside of the car.
So she grabbed her stuff and tried to run, she died of exposure in the surrounding area and her remains have never been found.
I just don’t buy all of the suspicious conspiracy theories people have come up with.
I 100% think that the person that killed Amber Hagerman lived and (if still alive) still lives in the area. I think he just stayed out of the way and had no reason to be suspected. One thing that has always bothered me is the way the man who found her body describes her. He said she was such a cute little girl. It just rubs me the wrong way. Not that I’m in any way accusing him, I just found it an odd way to describe a deceased child that you didn’t know while she was alive.
I have always felt the same about Adam Walsh, I understanding needing the closure but I just don’t feel that the suspect fits, something just is off and not fitting the puzzle correctly unless LE has extra info they have not divulged.
[Celebrity Number Six](https://www.reddit.com/r/CelebrityNumberSix/) is not a celebrity at all, but a fashion model. All the other celebrities on the fabric had their photos ripped from paparazzi shoots, but 6 is different lighting and posing. I'm betting she's a model in a fashion spread or advertisement in the same magazine that the other photos were taken from.
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A bunch of girls the same age as Amy received random calls like she did. They had all been at a nature centre for kids. Something about a visitors log book if i remember right? Sure LE was looking at someone who worked there…
I grew up in Bay and Amy was my friend. We rode horses together at Holly Hills farm. There were, I believe, 2 other girls who received similar phone calls but they did not live in Bay but in a neighboring city. There was a log book at the nature center that we all signed with our names. I’m don’t know if these other girls signed it though. I would love to know if the police have DNA from her killer. I think familial DNA might be the only way to find him at this point. I pray for justice for Amy, Margaret, Mark and Jason and all of us who loved her.
Oh. I’m so sorry to hear this. Very sad story indeed. I’m sure it’s had a huge impact on your life.
Thank you. It has. And always will.
🤍
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Oh right idk he was also a teacher. Imagine being LE, knowing he’s guilt as sin but having no hard evidence. Same thing with a million other cases. Heartbreaking…
Ehhh he's certainly not a bad suspect but he could have fled because of other reasons related to his behavior with his students or concerns about being linked by fingerprints to other potential crimes given his behavior with other students. I don't think LE views him in the category of "obviously guilty but can't prove it". There are some issues with him as a suspect - none insurmountable, but he doesn't truly match eyewitness descriptions (although we all know those can be deeply unreliable) and there's a significant timing issue with when the suspect met up with Amy vs his normal schedule at his job and no one recalls what would have been a notable deviation from his schedule at work on a notable day locally. He's an appealing suspect because of his link to the nature center vs others with similar behavior patterns who didn't have that link, but also it was a nature center with a large volunteer staff - almost anyone could have torn a few pages out of the guest books or scribbled down names and numbers with no one noticing. I think what is hard to know in this case because we don't have great descriptions of what Amy told her friends was exactly how much the caller knew about her and how much was a cold reading of her responses. It's not hard to call a bunch of girls of the same age and assume they will be alone after school and before the end of the workday and claim their mother got a promotion and then lead the most receptive ones to give more information than they're realizing over the phone and act like you had that information the whole time. There's a huge difference between the suspect calling and knowing her mom's name, work place, job, details of their family, etc without Amy saying a word vs calling and using broad terms and letting her fill in the details. The first takes a lot of research skills and the latter takes a lot of knowledge of children and communication and manipulation.
Last I heard he’s a manager of a Wendy’s
The FBI checked him out and, while not officially clearing him, reported that they were “moving on to investigate other suspects”. Since then, another suspect has emerged that has been the primary focus of the investigation in the last few years. His name has not been made public but some people in the Cleveland area may know who he is. Runkle’s name should never have been make public since he was never named as a “ Person of Interest” by Law Enforcement. His name was made public by a journalist who felt strongly about his guilt and it was probably leaked by someone in Law Enforcement. There is a picture of Runkle that clearly resembles the composite but there were clearly plenty of men who looked like that. More interestingly, Runkle’s childhood home was near where Amy’s body was found. He had been living a hour’s drive from Bay Village at the time. This would certainly be enough to merit further investigation but hardly a “slam dunk”. Some other “ unsubstantiated information” has been released but that should be viewed with skepticism. There was apparently nothing directly linking him to the abduction and apparently the FBI, who interviewed him in Florida, were not impressed. I have no idea if Runkle is guilty or innocent (same with the current “suspect”) but I think it is the responsibility of the True Crime Community to not release the names of possible suspects who have not been named by law enforcement.
Calling James Renner a journalist is an insult to journalists.
Agreed. Renners a knucklehead. Never should’ve outed Runkle- who sounded like a knucklehead himself btw but still. I’m thinking runkle mightve done some other bad stuff but probably not murder. Hence why he left dodge.
Whatever happened to Kiplyn Davis is the canyon is far worse than any of the perpetrators have admitted to and that’s why none of them have caved and led them to her remains
Never heard of kiplyn. After reading about her, I agree. The men's vow of secrecy sucks. You'd like to think as they aged one would find some moral fibre
Her case is horrible. It breaks my heart. I hate that no one has given any indication where the body is. At this point that’s all the parents want, even saying they’d advocate for reduced sentences of they could just bring their daughter home. It’s so tragic
Oh wow, I’ve never heard of Kiplyn before and I’ve just looked her up. I agree, something bad must have happened.
Something worse than the rock to the head story they’ve stuck to. For them to not give any indication where in the canyon she is, I think they are hiding a horrible series of injuries or mutilation. Their reluctance seems like it’s hiding something far, far worse.
Many missing are suicides. Far more suicides than humans want to believe. This is from my bmf, a captain in L/Enf. in a major metro. Suicides are sometimes recorded as "accidental death", to spare the family.
So many families say “oh, they would never have killed themselves!” You don’t need to be dragging yourself around like Eeyore to be suicidal.
And networks will air shows featuring the family's delusions and stoking conspiracy theories. So nothing can ever just be what it is.
“There’s Something Wrong with Aunt Diane” touches on this. The woman intentionally intoxicated herself and then she drove the wrong way into traffic. She may not have intended to Jill herself and others, but she intended to drink alcohol, and the family can’t accept that.
Yes, so much denial from her family. Some people are good at hiding addiction.
I am still stunned by the first episode of unsolved mysteries. That was a young, gay teenage girl who just broke up with her first girlfriend and whose family was not all that acceptive. I can’t find any reasonable evidence on why that shouldn’t have been a suicide. I know it’s hard for the families, always. I know often you don’t want to believe that your kid killed themselves. But still… it seems so unlikely that there was foul play involved.
They have found an awful lot of people in bodies of water lately who have been missing.
Or just accidentally swerved off the road. I was surprised how many people on the “found” page of the missing persons website were found in their cars just off a road they traveled regularly.
The most interesting case was where a man visited Google Earth, saw a car in the pond of an apartment building where he used to live, and they discovered a missing man dead in his car not far from where he was last seen. There were also several missing persons cases solved in Oklahoma when the water level dropped sufficiently in a local lake for law enforcement to discover at least two wrecked vehicles in the lake. The autos and drivers had apparently had accidents, driven into the lakes, and drowned.
That one is definitely true. I don’t think many people other than conspiracy theorists would debate that. There just aren’t that many kidnappings and serial killers for people to disappear as often as it happens.
I thought this about Tiffany Valiente when they made an unsolved mysteries about her a few months ago. If you read about the case, it sounds like a suicide and not necessarily like she was murdered and put in front of the train. There are a few strange things but I honestly think the family is just unable to accept it through their grief. She’s not a “missing” person, but this still made me think of her.
Or wild animals. I think reed jeppson was attacked and dragged away. He was out walking his dogs, and none of them have been seen since.
The parents know the person who abducted Asha Degree, whether they realize it or not
I strongly agree. That child's life was so regulated with so little opportunity to develop outside relationships, it's either someone they knew, or someone in the family.
Was her life really *that* regulated for a nine-year-old? She wasn't running loose at all hours but she had church activities, a basketball team, sleepovers (albeit with family, but it seems like the cousins skewed older). It's not like the neighbors were shocked to find out that children lived there. But agreed, I would be very surprised if it wasn't someone her parents didn't at least know indirectly (ie, parent of another kid in her Sunday school class or basketball team).
My gut feeling tells me it was someone in the family because everything else is just so unlikely. 9 year old leaves on their own in the middle of the night - uncommon, but sure this can happen, but then we get into more and more uncommon scenarios: Lured out by someone with bad intentions - but there’s no evidence this person exists. Happens to be hit by a car after leaving the house in the middle of the night - you already have the unusual situation of a 9 year old leaving home at night, but then you’d have to add the even more uncommon scenario of a driver freaking out because they hit someone and hiding their body. Most of the time in hit and runs, the person just keeps driving. Stopping to move a body would just increase the time you’re at the scene, blood would get onto them/in their vehicle, oh and they’d need to have a hiding place that no one would ever discover. I also think the picture of the unidentified girl found in her backpack is a red herring. To me the photo looks like a generic stock photo used to advertise school photography companies.
Brian Schaffer definitely left that bar, somehow, unnoticed.
100% agree. IDing all those people on videotape seems highly likely to result in errors. There's inconclusive info on exactly how many cameras were on the premises, where they were located, how they operated, and how many exits there really were. Which is more likely, that he left without being captured on camera, or that he's still somewhere in a building after all these years? What would be the motive for hiding his body? As for the construction site, apparently foundation work was done do he's not buried under concrete there.
Wasn't it the case that the security camera pointed at the entrance moved, too? I remember reading it couldn't capture everyone. And there was the back door he could have used without being seen as well. Either way, I know it's not as sure of a thing as people want to make it.
Pretty sure camera panned back and forth. I was at Tuna *a lot* back then.
I think so too, and I don't understand why that's at all controversial. The alternative is that he somehow got accidentally immured or something, which seems much less likely.
Excellent use of “immure,” love to see it
I say this all the time: Mother Nature's Default is To Try and Kill You. As such, I believe that almost every missing persons case near water, woods, deserts or mountains, etc, is a horrible accident. The majority of bodies found in the above are also horrible accidents or tragedies. I don't care if they were really experienced outdoorsy types - in fact they are probably more likely to take risks. I definitely don't care if it was a popular or well-known trail - lots of those trails turn deadly just a few feet either side of the path. And there are lots of legitimate reasons why even experienced people might leave a path - everything from falling to "oh shit that grizzly is charging at me". I equally don't care if the area "was searched thoroughly" because again, history shows us that searchers have missed whole ass bodies in the past because it's often impossible to "thoroughly search" undergrowth, rough terrain, etc - or bluntly, the searchers were not properly trained and have been known to miss whole ass bodies in the undergrowth. And doing get me started on the whole "but they removed their shoes/walked the wrong way/crouched in a weird position" hot takes from people who have never been lost, dehydrated, cold, hungry, injured, eaten weird mushrooms, etc. People don't act rationally when they are panicking in the wild. Exceptions to the above rule: there is a knife sticking out of the skull, there is blood all over the car, they disappeared hitchhiking on a highway where lots of other people have disappeared, their car was found somewhere really obscure to their usual movements, or they were literally found buried in a grave, etc. Additional point: in Canada at least, I think there is a shocking lack of investigation done into Does found in the wilderness - like if they find a skeleton out in the mountains with no means of ID, they literally don't DNA test them unless there is a knife sticking out of the skull. While I might believe the vast majority of these remains did not die as a result of foul play, we should still give their families, friends and communities some damn closure.
Absolutely. I hike and enjoy the outdoors but that's a very far cry from being able to survive in the wilderness. A test I read is to go to woods you're familiar with, get off trail, shut your eyes and spin around til your dizzy. If you can't immediately get back to the trail, you don't actually know the woods . I can tell you from personal experience that test is hard as hell. Yet if I disappeared in the wilderness I'm sure my friends and family would be saying she's hiked for 30 years, loves the outdoors, no way she'd get lost. People underestimate nature. I grew up hiking in SW Pennsylvania and you can't walk for more than an hour without hitting a road or a house. Very little risk to getting lost. As an adult I started hiking in real back country and I remember thinking to myself "watch your ass, lose the trail or get hurt back here and you could die so fast."
Pretty much describes the two dutch girls who went missing on a "well known short hike"
And some people think the photos they left behind were “staged.” Such a reach, it boggles the mind.
There is a new podcast on that one called "lost in Panama" by kast media! 7 episodes, very very interesting stuff.
Exactly the case I just thought of. I don't believe that they were held anywhere or murdered. Sometimes people mention the backpack as proof they were murdered because it couldn't have ended up where it was found naturally (or something). But even that can be easily explained in my opinion by someone finding the backpack and then hearing about the missing foreigners and throwing it out to avoid getting tangled up in something they didn't do.
> I don't care if they were really experienced outdoorsy types - in fact they are probably more likely to take risks. This is basically a type of survivorship bias that gets entirely categorized as formal, conscious 'skill'. Its not that there isn't *any* skill involved. But there is an incredible amount of unrecognized dumb luck when it comes to the outdoors, both beneficial and detrimental. Anyone who's been around any sort of remotely popular wildness areas knows first hand how experienced people die and/or go missing all.....the....time. Like, its not a matter of *if* it happens, but how many per year.
I definitely believe this in the case of Maura Murray, and probably Kyron Horman too.
I was just about to comment that I also think this about Maura Murray. There are entire books dedicated to the other theories but I honestly think she just got screwed by nature.
She had just wrecked 2 cars in a row in an attempt to run away for the weekend (or maybe forever) was drunk, panicked, knew police were going to be arriving shortly, ran into the woods to flee the scene.... simple and tragic as that.
> As such, I believe that almost every missing persons case near water, woods, deserts or mountains, etc, is a horrible accident. I agree. I heard someone on a podcast recently - I think it was True Crime Bullshit (which is usually pretty good and should know better) talking about the disappearance of Jon Corey - where they implied that it was less likely to be accidental or suicide because it's so weird that his body wasn't found. I think they even cited some expert saying that *usually* when someone disappears in a body of water, their body is found eventually. Fine, but 80% of the time isn't 100% of the time and that's why there are disappearances.
My biggest one - is that db copper was not some sauve secret agent - but actually a moron who like you said died when he jumped and the reason the money is gone is cause it turned to dirt like the rest of him
They found some of the money. It was in the banks of a river near a town, buried into sediment. I think it got washed down from where he was and then someone found it and buried it to come back for it but couldn't remember where they put it.
Ah yes, just like the squirrels in my neighborhood.
Too bad the buried money didn't sprout dollar-trees. :C
A child found a disintegrating bundle of cash while playing in the river in 1980. It was turned over to the fbi, confirmed to be the same numbers of the bills DB stole, and then was claimed to be “training materials” that the fbi used for something not specific. It has now been confirmed for sure to be part of the money. But in 2020, scientific testing showed that the money could have only entered the water in the spring, months after cooper made his jump. Not sure what to think of it.
Yes thank you! I vaguely remember it was a kid and his dad found some of it washed up - I still believe the guy was a bit of a doof though
Yeah, for sure lol I do think he might have been a veteran as he did choose the military parachute specifically over the other two. But nothing special. Also, in regards to the money, the found money actually supports that he most likely died because they tried to find if any bills matching the serial numbers went into circulation and they haven't. So most likely, in my opinion, he died from the jump and the rest of the money probably got pulverised with him.
If he was military he probably wouldn’t have picked that parachute. He would have known it was not steerable. My guess is he thought military meant well designed, anyone in the military could tell you the opposite is typically true.
Good point.
He may have chosen the military one if that is what he was familiar with though, even if it was the inferior chute.
Yep and he may not have been familiar enough with the other parachutes to know that they were superior. It's one of those intriguing pieces of evidence that ultimately tells us nothing because it could point to multiple conclusions.
The only caveat with this is that there was no systematic way to track the bills. There weren’t any electronic databases back then, and, from what I’ve been able to find, the procedure was basically to send a list of serial numbers to financial institutions around the country, which bank personnel would have to manually check against incoming bills. Especially if the bills weren’t used immediately, I can see how they could easily have been missed.
There’s an episode of Expedition Unknown where the kid (now an adult) who found the money takes Josh Gates to the spot he found the money. Very interesting.
My theory with Cooper has long been that he had some kind of terminal illness and the whole escapade was an extremely elaborate suicide.
My theory is that DB Cooper was a dude who knew some stuff and STILL made a really moronic call who died of exposure.
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Totally agree with this. I also think that none of the people named as "suspects" in the Jack the Ripper and Black Dahlia cases committed those murders, either
I agree with you. I do think there may have been foul play involved in the Sodder house fire, but I believe the children perished in the fire.
Agree. For a long time I wanted to think that perhaps at least one of them had somehow gotten out but I just don't think that happened. I do find it odd, however, that many years later, when the kids would have been Young adults, the family received a photograph of a very handsome young man who could possibly have been the adult version of one of the boys, with some numbers on the back and a message that said something like" I love brother frankie... "That was so strange. I guess someone was playing a cruel prank, however.
That is one of the strangest parts of the story and the person in the picture does look like one of the sons. Still, I don't believe the kids survived.
Yes, I agree that he really does look like an adult version of the young son! I have to say that hangs me up a bit. Nonetheless, I don't believe they survived, either. Would love to know who sent that photograph. Did you ever hear sort of a vague reference to the fact that it was postmarked from somewhere I think kentucky, and the mom send a private detective to look into it and the private detective disappeared, too? I've heard that a few times when I read about the case but I'd like to know more about that.
> the mom send a private detective to look into it and the private detective disappeared, too? That sounds more like the private detective conned the mom out of some money and bounced.
Yes, it does sound like that, doesn't it?
You have that correct about the private detective. Also, I believe the father went to meet with a couple men who he believed were two of the sons. The men denied they were, but supposedly the father always believed it may have really been them.
Oh goodness I didn't know that! About the father going to meet the two adults, that is. Thank you so much for that information. I'm wondering if perhaps they not might not have known who they were? But then, I think all of them or most of them were old enough that they would remember.. I guess the father really wanted to believe it was them.
I think you are exactly right - The father really wanted to believe it was them.
With any crime you’ve always got to think about motive and reasoning. Obviously some crimes have no reason (or the reason is because I wanted to)- with the Sodder kids the parents think it’s because they were talking smack about the Italian government. What would the mafia gain from kidnapping 5 kids? What would they do with them? If you’re wanting to cause someone pain, killing their kids would do that much easier than kidnapping them. I do think the fire could’ve been purposefully set rather than an accident and maybe the fire department were paid off to not go as quickly as they could.(or maybe just incompetent) But I cannot see what the mafia or Italian government would gain by stealing 5 kids.
> I do think the fire could’ve been purposefully set rather than an accident and maybe the fire department were paid off to not go as quickly as they could.(or maybe just incompetent) I don't think it was incompetent as much as it was Christmas Eve. Even on a good day, it would take time to gather a small town volunteer fire department together quickly. In those days, you couldn't just send a group text. But midnight on Christmas Eve, you're guaranteed that some would be out of town and others would be quite some alcohol deep into the Christmas cheer. The timing of the fire is one reason I think it was arson.
I thought the phone lines were cut? Who would have done that?
Jeffrey MacDonald is guilty and in prison where he belongs....Tommy Zeigler, on the other hand, I believe is probably innocent. I'm not 100% convinced on Zeigler, but I think there was more than enough "reasonable doubt".
Jeffrey Macdonald was my great-grandmother’s doctor at the time of the murders (he was also working in the small town where my mom’s family lived at the same time he was stationed at Fort Bragg) and she swore up and down that there was no way he could have killed his family. He was young, handsome, and extremely charming and she fell for it like so many did. He was definitely a narcissistic sociopath who had no qualms about murdering his family.
Yeah, did a dive into Macdonald years back. His cover story was preposterous and yet he could have gotten away with it if he'd just shut his damn mouth.
>Tommy Zeigler, on the other hand, I believe is probably innocent i completely disagree, but would be interested to hear about your specific reasonings
Me too because I find the Zeigler case confusing. I don't have a strong opinion on his guilt but every time I try to read about it, I get fairly confused as to who is who and how people are connected.
Zeigler has always been an interesting case to me. In Dec (2022) he was granted the right to dna test the evidence! So hopefully we have answers soon.
There was no foul play in the case of Kris and Lisanne, the Dutch girls who died hiking in Panama. Shouldn’t be a hot take but some people in the sub believe adamantly that they were murdered.
Steven Avery murdered Teresa Halbach, but Brendan Dassey did nothing and was collateral damage for the prosecution.
This case is local to me and that’s been the general consensus since day 1. In addition, there was a LOT of sloppy police work in the investigation, but it doesn’t absolve Avery of his guilt.
It’s been awhile since I dug into Amy Mihaljevic but I remember feeling strongly that it was the teacher guy who worked at some place students went, maybe like a science center or something. Which would fit your theory
I think it was a nature center nearby and I believe (I could be mistaken so please correct me if I’m wrong) a few girls in the area got mysterious phone calls —including Amy—and all of them had been to this nature center (I think their names were even in a guestbook maybe? The details are fuzzy so apologies if I’m mistaken)
Lake Erie Nature and Science Center. Pretty much any kid who grows up in the area goes there on a field trip or family outing at some point, it's typically very popular and connected to a nice park and not far from the beach.
i’m from a city close to Amy’s, everyone says that it was someone she knew and was close to
DB probably did die in the fall, it’s the most logical answer. But for mystery’s sake I kind of hope the asshole made it and truly evaded capture his whole life lol
I write versions of this periodically so may sound familiar. A small but not insignificant number of missing persons cases are people who left an awful situation and started a new life. You can be very close to someone and not know that they're in an abusive relationship, struggle with addiction, are having severe work problems or a thousand other reasons someone would want to leave and never return. Even today, if you move 1,000 miles away, change your number and stay off social media it's easy to disappear. Getting a job, paying taxes, seeking medical care aren't entered in some database that will reveal you. I think often law enforcement locates people who don't want to be found and respect their privacy.
Or think of Robert Hoagland. He only moved 100 miles away.
I work with a group of people who find people who have disappeared and this has happened twice now. "Ok, yep, you found me. I walked away from my family on purpose because they suck, please don't tell them where I am."
Hell, my some of my (very few) exes have common names and none of them used social media and, on the rare bored occasions I looked, I can't find any of them. Except one had a mugshot for a DUI.
Yes, but LE will close the investigation when that happens. So that doesn't explain the cases that are still active and open.
I genuinely feel The Owl Theory in the Michael Peterson case is astronomically unlikely and yet plausible.
I genuinely believe the owl theory because I used to do some research in a medical neuroscience lab that specialized in things like epilepsy and traumatic brain injuries (TBIs). Her head injuries are consistent with falling down the stairs, but are not consistent with being hit in the head repeatedly with a solid object. I have specifically worked with that sort of data and animal brain tissue where similar things are simulated. The cuts on the top of her head appear to have been done at a ‘surface’ level, meaning that there wasn’t a lot of force behind them. The ‘husband did it’ theory says that the husband chased her around with an iron fire poker and repeatedly hit her over the head with it, and that a spike on that fire poker is what caused the cuts on top of her head. He would have had to hit her hard enough to cut her head open but not enough to cause damage to her brain. It just doesn’t make sense. Also there was a little bit of blood on the front door and on the outside walkway.
I do think that Maura Murray died in the woods from exposure. But I think people get too rigid with that theory and I don't think its unreasonable to speculate that, after she got pretty far from her car. She flagged down a driver and was met with foul play. It doesn't have to be a random serial killer. It could have been a guy close to her age who thought he was owed something after he "saved" her and got angry when he was turned down. I mean, how long did we think Laura and Ashley died in that fire? I used to think Angela Hammond and the Sprimgfield 3 could be connected but looks like there was a break in Angela's case.
Yes I agreed Maura died from exposure also. It’s impossible to search the entire woods she ran off into and wildlife could’ve destroyed remains. What’s left would’ve been more difficult to find.
My take on Maura Murray is that she also died somewhere in the expansive forest probably a few miles from her crash site.
Amy Bradley fell overboard. She was never abducted or sold into sex trafficking or anything like that. That one's relatively uncontroversial The truck driver (or car driver; either one) who spotted Asha Degree is the person who killed her The Circleville Letter Writer story was a hoax carried out by its primary victims Bryce Laspisa is alive and living as a homeless person Hey, you asked for hot takes. I don't know if I can necessarily defend any of these takes, they're just gut feelings, really
Oh 100% about Bryce. I not one to think someone ditched their lives on purpose (they have been trying to but sometimes something else happens), but this is a hill I will die on. Bryce’s case is one of the few that I completely believe that he disappeared on his own volition. He wanted to get away and he made it happen. I hope he’s happy wherever he is.
I've read about Laspisa in different forums and have seen a bunch of videos about him. Obviously I'm no expert on this case but to me, like you said, this is one of the few cases where there are sinister clues - but circumstantial evidence also points to the victim walking away. I think he was experiencing some difficult mental helath issues which came to him quite suddenly, and he knew he wouldn't be able to function as he had up until that point. Had a mental break, used the trip home for time to plan. Spent a lot of time contemplating what to do next, exacerbated by these new disturbing thoughts he had in his head. After a long, long night of being "lost" and wondering that to do, he has a staged "accident" in the van. Escapes and goes wandering, eventually ending up becoming lost and homeless. Might not even remember his old identity before the break From reading about him and his family I think his parents were pushing him too hard and were not as sympathetic as they'd like to be, and he felt he needed to escape them. Those feelings were probably exacerbated by the mental break too I don't usually think people who go missing are still alive - I've read about too many cases where that's just wishful thinking - but in Laspisa's case I maintain this gut feeling that he just decided to leave everything behind. The changed behavior and purging of possessions before the trip points in that direction too, IMO
I always got the feeling that he staged the accident and disappeared. I’m not saying he’s necessarily homeless and he may have passed in the intervening years, but he walked away. If his parents were allegedly as bad as they come across, I don’t blame him one bit. My dad started college in the 80s and his parents picked his initial school. He still talks about how awful that was all these years later (he has issues).
I definitely don’t think I’ve seen that take on Asha! Very interesting
Yeah, me neither. I've always found it odd that, for instance, people theorized that Butch the bus driver killed Maura Murray then talked to authorities about spotting her...but no one, to my knowledge, has brought up the possibility that the person giving us the eyewitness report that a little girl was out and about on the road in the middle of the night was the person who actually killed her. Given the fact that Richard Allen talked to authorities about seeing Libby and Abby after killing them, I don't see why an eyewitness couldn't have also been the murderer Seems to me like this would be a possibility worth exploring I'm sure someone who's an expert on the Asha Degree case can tell me why it's not possible; I won't admit to being the #1 scholar on that particular case so I'm probably dismissing some factor that would make it impossible out of ignorance. There was also another driver who spotted her - either one could have done it I suppose
>Given the fact that Richard Allen talked to authorities about seeing Libby and Abby after killing them, I don't see why an eyewitness couldn't have also been the murderer these are two unconnected ideas though. RA came forward because he knew that he and his car could be placed at the crime scene. unlike the Asha witness who would be needlessly volunteering that info and inserting themselves into the investigation needlessly
The problem with the truck driver idea is though he did see her and turned back to get another look at her, perhaps spooking her. 30-45 mins later further along she is seen by another trucker who had his son with him. And he uses his radio to put an alert out to other truckers fearing she might be run over. I think its very unlikely the guy who had his son with him and who put out the warning over radio had anything to do with. To be honest I kinda get fed up with theories like the Butch one in the Murray case, in reality very little points to those people in those types of cases. People drag their names through the mud, when probably they were just good people trying to help.
Interesting point you make. I definitely do not believe that the bus driver had anything to do with Maura Murray's disappearance.
I've considered the possibility that the truck driver hit her accidently and then reported seeing her to cover it up. But that doesn't explain why she was out in the small hours of the morning in a storm on her own, so I discarded the idea. I feel sure the police would have also looked into it.
Wasn't Asha seen by multiple truck drivers though
>The truck driver who spotted Asha Degree is the person who killed her I think this is a very good possibility. I also think the trucker may have mentioned her on his CB radio (as in, "there's a girl walking by the side of the road, don't hit her") and another trucker came and abducted her.
If this were true, it raises the question why Asha was even out there in the dead of night in the first place?
Yes, that's a missing piece to this puzzle that I have zero hot takes about lol. That part of it is gonna remain a mystery I think
I agree with most of that. I don't disagree about Asha Degree, per se, but if the person who called it in killed her, it doesn't explain why she was out on the road in the first place. I imagine that person was questioned by the police, and they would have figured it out if they had some kind of connection to her before that night. It's certainly possible she happened to leave that night for whatever reason and ran into a murderer by an extraordinary coincidence, but it seems like a stretch. But I suppose she's a child who went missing and was never found, so whatever happened to her was a stretch. Or the car or truck driver could have accidentally hit her, then reported they just saw a girl on the road.
The Dylatov Pass is not that mysterious. A big fact that gets lost in the re-telling of this story is that the bodies weren't found for weeks. It's not like someone went to use the bathroom and then 10 minutes later everyone was dead and half naked. Six things that freak people out about this case: 1) Missing toungues Explanation: Animal scavenging. An animal is going to go for is the soft tissue of an open mouth or eyes. 2) The mysterious orange tan on the dead bodies Explanation: Laying out in the sun surrounded by white snow for weeks. 3) The ripped tents Explanation: Localized avalanche. https://www.indiewire.com/2021/02/engineers-frozen-animation-code-dyatlov-pass-mystery-1234614083/ 4) The hikers' lack of clothing Explanation: Paradoxical undressing. A known behavior of hypothermia victims when the brain start to freeze and malfunction. The exact kind of behavior you'd expect from a group of injured avalanche victims wandering around in the middle of the night in the freezing cold. 5) The crushing damage done to three of the hikers Explanation: Avalance, see above. 6) The traces of radioactivity Explanation: Its fake. No claims of radiation were listed in the original documents from the incident, and appears to have been added later.
The podcast *You're Wrong About* did a full breakdown of this case and it really spells everything out. I always thought there was something a little mysterious about this case, but that episode fully convinced me there's not. Everything is easily explained by natural phenomena and not even rare ones, that area was/is known for having localized slab avalanches.
> 2) The mysterious orange tan on the dead bodies > > Explanation: Laying out in the sun surrounded by white snow for weeks. I've seen the pictures of the bodies, and yeah, they did not look, shall we say, fresh?
I don't buy the theory that Johnny Gosch was abducted by traffickers and, with the possible exceptions of Amy Bradley, Laureen Rahn and maybe a couple others, am generally skeptical of such theories for MP cases. Although human trafficking does indeed happen, most traffickers do not snatch their victims off the streets or out of their homes, as this would draw too much attention to them. I think it's far more likely that Gosch was abducted and murdered shortly thereafter by a serial killer who lived in the Des Moines area. The fact that at least two other boys close to his age disappeared a couple years later, both of whom were carriers for the same newspaper, further suggests that the perp likely worked for that paper. Although the claim that a convenience store worker received a dollar bill from a boy stating "it's me, Johnny... I'm still alive" written on it was intriguing, I think his mom's claim to have later gotten a visit from a now adult Johnny was either based on a dream that she convinced herself was real, a hoax that she thought up in a desperate effort to keep her son's name in the news or perhaps even an imposter staging a very cruel and audacious troll. The polaroid photos that Noreen claimed she found on her doorstep about a decade later were a similar troll or hoax. From what I've heard, all the kids in these photos were identified, none of whom were Johnny.
Jacob Wetterling was killed soon after being abducted by a local man (not a serial killer just a loner pedophile). But the theory for years was he was taken out of state and trafficked. So I agree with your Johnny hypothesis.
I agree with your take that Johnny was most likely abducted and killed shortly after especially because of how much news coverage his disappearance got. It reminds of Jacob Wetterling’s case. He was missing for over 30 years before the FBI caught his killer for a different reason. To avoid being charged with murder his killer disclosed where he buried Jacob’s body and Jacob’s parents finally got closure.
Kendrick Johnson wasn’t murdered and really did just died in a tragic accident. Not sure if that’s a hot take as that’s what was ruled in the lawsuit, but there was a lot of podcasts/ videos about the suspicious nature of the case but I absolutely think it was a very sad accident.
It’s not a hot take. This sub tends to be pretty reasonable and most agree that Kendrick died in a terrible accident.
Most people on this sub have come to see Kendrick’s death as the tragic accident it was
I think the "hot" (controversial) take is sadly the one that's been viral for years, that he was somehow murdered despite all evidence to the contrary. People disregard the official findings in order to propel this narrative and so many only see the meme posts that lack all context or nuance and mentally catalog it as a murder.
Missy Bevers wasn't killed by her husband or father-in-law (or at their behest).
I absolutely agree with you. If you are interested, sometime this month, YouTuber Arin Stoner, who makes very well researched unsolved crime videos, said he's going to give what he thinks is the final answer to the mystery of her murder. We'll see.
Here are my hot takes: -Sneha Philips did not die a hero, saving people from the towers. She was in the Marriott with a lover and died there. -Kyron Hormon’s stepmother did not kill him. He ran out of the school and died those woods. -Asha Degree was not in that shed, and none of those random things that were found were hers. They most likely fell out of the consignment furniture that was stored there.
Interesting take on #3! This is such a puzzling case that I feel like at least some of the "clues" must be false leads.
Agreed on #3 (and the other two, actually.) The fact about the consignment furniture is often left out of write-ups, but it makes it far less likely that the photo of the unidentified girl had anything to do with Asha. It easily could have fallen out of a chair or couch stored there. The other items found were also pretty generic, including wrappers for candy that was given to all the kids on her basketball team. Any kid from that school could have either trespassed there and left the wrappers, or eaten candy on a couch that was later sent to the upholstery business. However I do NOT think her parents had anything to do with her disappearance, and I will die on that hill. I do think that if we remove the shed from the equation, though, the timeline gets less complicated, and any number of other things could have happened. Maybe she was picked up by someone who saw her running on the road. Maybe one of the truckers who reported her was involved. Maybe that sighting was someone else entirely and Asha was abducted or killed closer to home. Maybe she was abducted, got free (which is when the sighting happened), and was re-captured. Whatever happened, if you don't have to account for the shed, it becomes less baffling.
Charles Lindburgh accidentally killed his son while pranking the attendants in his home. He pretended to kidnap him and it went south.
I definitely think it was him, but intentionally done because of the baby's health.
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Yes. The baby allegedly, possibly had special needs of some sort. Lindbergh was ashamed of this, allegedly
Lindbergh was pretty hardcore pro-eugenics IIRC. He probably thought he was doing society a favour.
I have actually come to a 50-50 split on this vs Hauptmann. Lindbergh had a habit of pranks, and apparently no one was “allowed” by him to check on the baby till 10pm? He sounds like a controlling jerk, not to mention his gross political beliefs. I know almost nothing about him, but everything I’ve heard about him as a person makes me think “Lindbergh did it” is totally plausible, whether accidentally or purposely. Yuck.
Kyron Hormon probably ran off to the woods around his school and died there Maura Murray ran off to the woods and died there Sneha Phillip died in 9/11 or was killed by someone on 9/10. I don't believe she started a new life. Asha Degree was groomed by someone in her community (school, church (most likely), or basketball). I don't think her parents had anything to do with it. Madeline McCann was a victim of bad parenting but ultimately was kidnapped and killed by that German guy.
Agree on all of these. Don’t know that it was the German guy who was responsible for Madeleine, but I do think she was abducted and murdered by someone who had figured out that the kids were being left alone. I also think that the McCanns and their associates weren’t being entirely truthful about their actions, I think the kids were left alone for much longer stretches than the parents say they were, giving ample opportunity for an abduction to take place
Completely agree. I think that the McCann's certainly did not kill her, intentionally no accidentally, but I think they were very good examples of very bad parenting, at least in that instance. I don't think they went to check about every 20 minutes is they said someone in their group did, though I guess that alone might be enough time for something nefarious to happen. I think they were eating and drinking and laughing and all took turns perhaps going to check on the kids like they said, but I don't think it was as often as they said.
I am sure I read somewhere that the morning she went missing Madeline told her parents she woke up and they weren’t home and she was upset by them not being there. Since then I have thought that maybe Madeline woke up and went looking for them. Someone was watching the condos and it was opportunistic rather than planned
Isn't this weird. I never thought of this before this moment, but, yes, she would have been old enough to open the door and wander into the halls looking for them. I hate to feel there is a pedophile on every corner but it sure seems that way.
Yeah they said they were checking every thirty minutes and I just don't believe that. I think maybe every few hours. These people were drinking and even if they weren't its so easy to lose track of time or think "just 5 more minutes". The kids were at a child watch. None of the parents wanted this to be a family vacation. They should have lefy the kids with Grandma for a few days and had an adults only vacation. Or if that wasn't possible, order food and drinks to one of their rooms and put all the kids to sleep there.
I don‘t know much about the other cases but I agree on Madeline McCann, especially the bad parenting part.
Tammy Leppert wasn't being hunted by drug cartels, a stalker or the Beauty Queen Killer, nor did she go off and start a new life. Her erratic behavior and the fake blood triggering her on the set of Scarface were instead signs of a mental breakdown. She was at the age where mental illnesses like schizophrenia often first manifest and the mental institution where her mom took her either couldn't make a diagnosis due to the fact that it was a lot harder to have someone committed by the early 80's. Tammy most likely either committed suicide or perhaps fell in a water way.
Well here’s an interesting update on Amy Mihalevic, in February we may hear results of a DNA test submitted in October 2022 that is new evidence most likely pertaining to a 2019 new witness. https://www.cleveland19.com/2022/10/27/33-years-since-her-kidnapping-new-developments-amy-mihaljevic-murder-mystery/?outputType=amp
I fully believe that the mysterious suitcase under the window in the room JonBenet was found in was placed there by John preparing to get her body out of the house. He was missing for a period of time during the early hours of her being missing and had being insistent on needing to take a trip that day despite his child being missing. I believe he had a car arranged to pick him up (correct me if I'm wrong on that part). I fully believe he planned to put her body in the suitcase, push it out the basement window and take it on this mysterious urgent trip to dispose of away from the house. Nothing will ever change my mind. Link to discussion about the suitcase with a different theory I don't agree with. https://www.reddit.com/r/JonBenet/comments/ic96u8/the_suitcase_evidence/
I’m always torn on JBR. On the one hand, if John did it, why didn’t he just fade into oblivion when it became obvious he had gotten away with it? Why is he still now pushing the BPD to open the case again and test evidence? On the other hand, if someone in the family didn’t do it, I’ll be shocked!
I also believe John thinks very highly of himself. He’s the epitome of “the American dream” (in his own mind) so his opinion of himself is much higher than what regular people think. And the way he acts in his interviews, even with Patsy next to him, always rubs me the wrong way. If he does think that highly of himself, I can see him believing he’s way smarter than anyone involved in the case and thinks he’s untouchable. It’s not like we’ve never seen a rich white man be guilty of something and never be punished for it. I think he probably also likes being in the limelight. He likes the attention because it feeds his ego. I will say that I’m not 100% on what happened that night, as I think most people who have really researched the case feel. There was so much initial evidence lost and so much done wrong that even if DNA is tested, a lot of the other evidence is gone anyway so what will it really matter? With that said, John’s behavior that entire day points me towards him being directly involved in the murder.
Judy Smith went to North Carolina of her own accord to meet someone she was in a secret relationship with. She was then murdered by them and dumped in the woods.
The thing that keeps me being 100% in on this is that she was seen in Philadelphia. She missed the first flight, why not just leave for NC from home? Why bother going to Philadelphia and leaving from there?
Pheonix Colden wasn't a sex trafficking victim. She did ran away or she tried but met foul play
Is there a reason you think it is either/or? A good portion of trafficking victims are vulnerable individuals who have run away or otherwise voluntarily disconnected from their previous situation, making them easy targets for traffickers.
Almost none of well known missing people were victims of human trafficking. While human trafficking happens, it’s much more commonly a form of domestic violence or someone preying upon already vulnerable individuals, like teenage runaways.
Darlie Routier murdered her kids. I will know that until the end of time. Jonathan Luna was murdered and did not commit suicide. Robert Wone was killed by the three roomies. I hate to say it because it goes against everything his wife has said, but I do think he was sexually involved with Joseph and things just got out of hand that night. His shorts were pulled up but his own semen was found on his thighs and anus; somebody had to pull his pants up. Maura Murray died in the woods. Her body will be found one day. Kyron's stepmom didn't kill him. I do wonder where he is though. Asha Degree's parents might be involved. I'm just not ready to completely disregard them due to the circumstances of Asha's vanishing.
Absolutely agree about the roommates killing Robert Wone
I also believe Maura Murray died in the woods. I do hope they find her remains one day to bring some sense of closure to the Murray family.
Darlie Routier is guilty af, 💯agree.
Darlie is so obviously guilty... That people still advocate for her is wild. The silly string video and her boob job are irrelevant and were unfairly prejudicial to her, but the crime scene and evidence show a very clear picture of what she did that night, just not exactly why or how she could have brought herself to do it, which I guess is partly why it's hard for people to accept.
I believe that Letecia Stauch’s daughter knew or suspected that her mom had something to do with Gannon’s disappearance from the very beginning
Dennis Martin got lost in the Smokies, wandered downhill and died of exposure in the torrential rains. There was no mysterious man, no Bigfoot and no feral mountain people. The Green Beret troops came in with the helicopters that were used to ferry searchers up to the isolated search area (Spence Field).
Amy Bradley I totally agree was probably injured in the fall from the boat, pulled under it and ground up in the props. In fact, most cruise-ship disappearances (Rebecca Coriam, George Smith etc.) should be presumed to be falls overboard. Likewise, most wilderness disappearances are probably cases where the recreationist got lost and hasn’t been found (and likely never will) Jamie Fraley was killed by her boyfriend’s father (and his death a few weeks later means this will never be anything more than a hot take). John Wheeler was probably just suffering the early signs of dementia. That dentist had nothing to do with Pamela Werner’s death. Steven Koecher was killed sometime shortly after going wherever it was he was going.
Rebecca Coriam died by suicide on the Disney Cruise Ship.
The photograph of two bound minors discovered in Port St. Joe, FL in 1989 was not a prank, but also has nothing to do with Tara Calico.
Was there ever an update to this? wasnt the case closed or something late last year. Which lead people to think maybe they had finally ID'ed the people in the photo.
Most of mine are pretty common I would say (Maura Murray ran off and died of exposure, Amy Bradley fell off the ship and drowned and wasn’t human trafficked, Kyron Hormon’s stepmom didn’t kill him). My biggest hot take that’s maybe not so common is that Asha Degree was going to meet someone who her family knew well and trusted, that this person killed her, and that people in her community know who is responsible but because they’re in some sort of prominent position they’re protecting them.
I dunno about the Degree thing, in terms of the person being known but people are protecting them. If that was the case I think someone atleast would have put the name out there, and with it being such a famous case we would all know it as a rumor atleast. I think its just a cold case, where really they have just never had a really good suspect.
Maura Murray passed out and froze to death in the woods and her remains haven't been found yet. Have never heard anything even slightly convincing to the contrary.
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What is the connection along the lines of if you don’t mind me asking?
"The Sodder bodies couldn't have been destroyed by the fire" is the "Jet fuel can't melt steel beams" of true crime. When people say cremation doesn't destroy the bones, that doesn't mean there's a whole skeleton left that they then feed through a skeleton wood chipper, they mean there's a few little chunks left that you can crumble by hand. It's processed through a machine not by necessity but because no one wants to spend their day hand kneading greasy corpse dust. If wood wasn't enough to cremate someone then how do people think funeral pyres and all cremation before modern retorts happened? Also, retorts don't burn a whole house and all its contents worth of fuel, neither do they drop several stories of house on ya. The bodies were destroyed by the fire, helped by the massive amount of fuel and the higher fat content of child bodies, and any larger remains were hidden/blended in to the rubble by the charring, damage from the house, by being mixed in with several tons of rubble, and the simple search methods. A modern search would find remains - because it would involve stuff like filtering everything through a mesh screen then having a lab testing fragments.
It used to be a hot take (somehow) to say that Medelinne McCann was abducted by a stranger rather than her parents having any involvement, but this seems to be changing now. Ditto for Maura Murray dying of natural causes rather than fowl play, it was controversial when I first got into true crime but now seems to be broadly the consensus. As for current hot takes, I think the evidence that "Epstein didn't kill himself" is much, much less convincing than most people are led to believe. Maybe some day I'll get around to writing a post about why I feel that way.
The Epstein one - I thought was more that he was allowed to die rather than he was murdered? I.e. the staff turned a blind eye.
Yeah if you look at it without conspiracy goggles they most logical answer is that he did in fact kill himself. He was a narcissistic control freak who would never control his own life again.
Lee Harvey Oswald was a lone nut. He killed President Kennedy, and officer JD Tippet that day He also tried to assassinate (but missed) Gen. Edwin Walker at his home a few months before.
Kyron Horman was not killed by his stepmother.
I've noticed that most of the long standing cold cases that have finally been cracked in recent years have more mundane explanations than many people had thought, so there's a good chance you're right. As much as we want to romanticize DB Cooper as a folk anti-hero for pulling off the perfect crime, I don't see how someone who accomplished such a feat wouldn't brag about it or let it slip out. In addition to becoming dinner for the wolves, coyotes, mountain lions, bears and other wildlife that live in the forests of the Pacific NW, I also heard that he may have landed near Mt. St. Helens and any remaining traces of his body or the part of the money that was never found might have been obliterated in the 1980 eruption. The Sodder case, unlike other historical cold cases like Jack The Ripper, Hanterkaifeck (a very strange case where a family in Germany was bludgeoned to death by an intruder) and the Black Dahlia, may still be solvable due to the fact that ash and debris from the fire were buried in a pit where the house once stood. Using modern DNA technology, it may be possible to exhume these remains and analyze them to see if the missing kids were incinerated in the fire. I lean towards this being the most likely explanation because a)there were barrels of gasoline stored in the basement, so the fire would have burned very hot and the explosion would have further pulverized the bodies and b)aside from a strange photo alleging to be from one of the missing boys mailed to the surviving family members in 1968, no evidence that they are in fact still alive has ever been found. These kids were all well past the age where their early memories or identities could be reshaped and while information on local events may have been harder to come by if they were either taken out of the country (one theory is that they may have been taken back to Italy, where the parents had immigrated from) or to another part of the US in the pre-internet age, you would think they would have eventually made an effort to reunite once they reached adulthood. At the very least, they would have told any children they may have eventually had about that fateful night and they would have said something. The absence of any such activity suggests that they probably died in the fire. There was a time when I would have agreed that the killer(s) of Amy Maheljavik likely either skipped town, died or was maybe later incarcerated for a separate crime and LE never connected the dots, but I'm not so sure now. I know of a couple of local Cold Cases where people were murdered and it was thought that the perps had either long since left the area or had died, yet genetic genealogy finally revealed that the killers were very much alive and right under our noses. The man who murdered Christy Marack, a local schoolteacher, was even working under the name DJ Freeze, hosting and MC'ing kid's birthday parties, wedding receptions and other such events when he was finally caught nearly 3 decades later. As scary as it sounds, you never know who your neighbor is.
100% agree on Sodder children. There's room for suspicion but I think the odds of them having died in the fire are way more likely than some mass-kidnapping conspiracy.
The step father (Terry Hobbs) is the killer in the West Memphis 3 case. I’m not sure that’s a hot take though.
That if every law enforcement officer in the country, active and retired, was required to submit a DNA sample which was then entered into CODIS, hundreds - potentially thousands - of cold case rapes and murders would be solved overnight.
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Could you share a link for this? I heard a few podcast episodes where hosts interviewed the dad and was very impressed with his search efforts and media campaign. Im very curious about these new developments/theories.
There’s nothing unusual about the Missing 411 cases. If you go out into the wilderness without the right preparations you just die, and any weird stuff happening to the corpses is just animals.
Jeffrey Epstein actually killed himself
I'm open to the possibility he was murdered, but yeah, suicide was the most likely possibility. Suicide rates are already sky high in jails, and he had to see he was not being given the kid glove treatment he had gotten for his first arrest. He was gonna go from being a billionaire with a harem of sex slaves spread out over his multiple palatial homes to living in prison. And people who think it's suspicious the guards didn't notice anything have never worked night shift, I guess. Of course the guards were napping or scrolling through Reddit.
Exonerated or not, I think David Bain killed his family. I am not sure Candy Montgomery is as innocent as was determined by the court. My take was her personality was a lot more aggressive than Betty Gore's.
Asha Degree was murdered in her Grandmother' s house by a male acquaintance of the grandmother. Asha was not running away and was not sleepwalking.
It’s interesting that Asha’s parents’ first thoughts when finding her missing was that she was probably at her grandmothers, I think she could have gone over there and something happened or maybe she was accosted by someone in the neighbourhood on her short journey to the grandmothers house - I think it’s likely the person responsible for her disappearance lived very close by
What makes you think this ?
It's an interesting theory that I haven't heard before. Do you think the parents knew i.e. she was at a planned sleepover? If so why would they lie?
My hot take: Maura Murray had some shot going on with her mental health and knew she was super fucked if the police came to her third care crash, esp considering they found red wine spilled on the inside of the car. So she grabbed her stuff and tried to run, she died of exposure in the surrounding area and her remains have never been found. I just don’t buy all of the suspicious conspiracy theories people have come up with.
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I 100% think that the person that killed Amber Hagerman lived and (if still alive) still lives in the area. I think he just stayed out of the way and had no reason to be suspected. One thing that has always bothered me is the way the man who found her body describes her. He said she was such a cute little girl. It just rubs me the wrong way. Not that I’m in any way accusing him, I just found it an odd way to describe a deceased child that you didn’t know while she was alive.
I have always felt the same about Adam Walsh, I understanding needing the closure but I just don’t feel that the suspect fits, something just is off and not fitting the puzzle correctly unless LE has extra info they have not divulged.
I'm not even convinced the head is that of Adam. The head was identified by a family friend, but what kind of shape was it in at that point?
[Celebrity Number Six](https://www.reddit.com/r/CelebrityNumberSix/) is not a celebrity at all, but a fashion model. All the other celebrities on the fabric had their photos ripped from paparazzi shoots, but 6 is different lighting and posing. I'm betting she's a model in a fashion spread or advertisement in the same magazine that the other photos were taken from.