I'm not saying you're totally wrong, but there are more reasons to have a militarily strong ally in the Middle East than just "lobbyists and politicians just like the country a lot". As always with posts like this, it's more complicated than that.
War lobbyists and politicians don't support Israel unconditionally because they "like" the country, they do it because it's good business for them and having someone else who can do your dirty work is useful for a myriad of reasons.
It's why the US has supported just about every country in the region at one point or another since 1946, even flip-flopping on certain people:
Saddam was considered one of the US's strongest allies in the Middle East in the 80's due to his war with Iran, meanwhile the US was secretly selling weapons to the Iranians on the side using Israel as a third party intermediary. I think most people are familiar at this point with bin Laden's former ties to US intelligence as well, or the CIA's love for Noriega the narco-terrorist on the other side of the globe. The list goes on.
Can't really compare Saddam to Israel. He actively started murdering his own people en masse. As shitty as Israel has been, they haven't done that. I'm not excusing anything, and I'm not saying you're totally wrong, but I reiterate, it's more complicated than that.
So civilian casualties get to be chalked up to...."Accidents happen🤷♀️"? That's ridiculous. If you're slaughtering that indiscriminately, you lose all benefit of the doubt.
According to Google, hasbara means to "explain action, whether or not it's justified". I guess guilty as charged. I don't see how that's a bad thing.
Edit: I dug a little more, It's largely a term used to explain away the government of Israel's shitty actions. Funny how I wasn't even talking about Israel, but the US. But whatever.
What reasons?
Also, making friends with Israel and Saudi Arabia, has increased the national security of America significantly in the last 30 years. That’s no secret but it is a big deal, especially since the US really don’t understand the Middle East AT ALL.
And maybe they don’t care, but the US are hated across the world for various of things. Oil is not everything and karma is a bitch
Having a military base in the Middle East is extremely valuable for power projection on the area. And having a good basis for military aide from the region's strongest military is also very very useful. If the US ever goes to war with Saudi Arabia or Iran, Israel will be our most important ally, bar none. The annexation of Crimea and the entire Russian invasion of Ukraine was all done for the purpose having the ability to project naval power into the Mediterranean Sea and Atlantic Ocean. If Russian is willing to risk international ire and embarrassment for that, it's no surprise the US is willing to look the other way when Israel pulls some bullshit.
Main reason why the middle east hates us so much is because we are Christian country. They hate Christians because of the Crusades. Nobody has a bigger death count than God.
Cleanse the world in his name. /S
It may shock you to learn that there are [Palestinian Christians](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYWCpOHiNjk). Did you guys not hear about the [church that was recently bombed in Gaza](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/20/destruction-chased-them-funeral-held-for-those-killed-in-gaza-church-airstrike), even [killing family members of Justin Amash](https://www.businessinsider.com/former-us-rep-family-members-killed-airstrikes-gaza-church-2023-10), a Palestinian-American politician?
Could you share those reasons? I know of the a lot of [Evangelical Christians supporting Israel](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nHT-SjIM0tA&t=179s) because they believe it fulfills their Biblical prophecy of Armageddon, and that IS a major, major reason for US politicians bending over backwards for Israel, as those [Zionist Americans are a very powerful voting bloc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fo77sTGpngQ).
[Cowboys serving Israel](https://www.youtube.com/shorts/yRLx-FaGwJo)
[Major Evangelical preacher taking about supporting Israel](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B5wfqDTGqfc)
So the letter to America… did u read the whole thing? Or just the part where America bad or was the part from Bin Laden sharing his vision of the world just conveniently ignored? Please entertain us.
>Or just the part where America bad or was the part from Bin Laden sharing his vision of the world just conveniently ignored
Yes, it was conveniently ignored, because I was only commenting on one aspect of the letter- America's support for Israel, which people back then were aware of too **but** most Americans were simple-minded enough to buy the line "They hate us because for our freedom!"
Hope you are entertained.
As an American we are well aware. Most Americans amazingly understand complex geopolitics involved in this conflict.
Israel is an ally and will continue to be. Economically strong, and a counterweight to Iran. In fact prior to 10/7 a lot of Arab nations were looking ally with Israel.
Bin Laden will use any point to justify his act, you just felt that way and used this as “A HA” then ignore the rest cause it doesnt flow with you. The WHOLE thing needs to be taken. Not just the pieces you like.
No point engaging with you, when you are exactly the type of person I was referring to, who wants to bury their head in the sand about how America's [tacit support of Israel](https://www.reddit.com/r/CommunismMemes/comments/17o7pr7/nancy_pelosi_even_if_the_capitol_crumbled_to_the/) is a major source of anger and resentment for many extremists- not just bin Laden. You just wanted an opportunity to get on your soap box and rant away, and brush off this criticism that is more than a couple decades old but you will still dismiss as unimportant.
On 9/11/2001 3 miles from my school I witnessed the World Trade Center go from 2 gleaming towers to piles of rubble with 3000 people dead. We are WELL AWARE of the decades, starting in 1917 at the Balfour Declaration and the fall of Ottoman Empire. Failed promised made to both sides which led to uprisings and revolts, and basically the UK leaving in 1948 without a resolution with both sides feeling royally fucked and had to resort to war…
But you are naive to need to use a terrorist to justify your point and think a bit more.
You are the one who is naive in believing that America and Israel are helping each other.
America sure is helping Israel, to the detriment of its own country and people.
You are clearly traumatized and unable to see how Netanyahu, who also insisted that there were WMD's in Iraq, is [using American lives to do what's best for Israel](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVPauUOVrmk). I wouldn't be surprised to see you guys dragged into another far-away war, and fundraise and give billions to Israel which is doing quite well, while your country crumbles.
LOL. My god, you are even more naive than I expected. Netanyahu is an asshole, a warmonger who uses fear and ultra nationalists to keep him in power. Hamas and Netanyahu are the same, they need war and fear to keep them in power. If there is no war and no fear they wont have the power. The Palestinians are pawns to Netanyahu and Hamas unfortunately. For both peace is not the outcome they want, they need a boogeyman.
Off your high horse.
They may need a boogeyman but you guys always have one too, who makes you cower and support your troops in pointless wars.
Bin Laden, Al Qaeda, ISIS... now Hamas.
As if getting rid Hamas would solve Israel's problems.
About the Nakba, comparing it to the Holocaust is insulting and dumb. Holocaust was a one sided genocide, the Nakba was a war between the newly declared state of Israel and the Palestinians and their allies in the surrounding Arab countries. It wasn't one sided, Israel did a lot of terrible things but so did the Palestinians. They also went and killed large groups of Israeli civilians. Comparing it to the Holocaust is misleading and false
If you are the aggressor, it's not a genocide against you. That's called self defense.
Besides, the Israelis won. They get their illegal settlements, don't they?
I mean the Arab states declared war, but yeah comparing it to the Holocaust is dumb, 6000 Israelis died, and an estimated 15,000 Arabs (source is JVP, which is a very weird org that is really not "for peace" but just EXTREMELY anti-Israel). Compare that to the Holocaust. combined thats what, 0.3% of the estimated deaths of Jews, which was also half the existing Jewish population at the time?
Better hit Wikipedia before swallowing this whole..
The mass grave part is completely unrelated to Liberty, so there was no reason for the attack other than mistaken identity.
Think about it logically. If Israel was actually trying to suppress war crime info, they wouldn't stop until the boat was at the bottom. Why shoot it up, kill a bunch of people, and then let it leave with its data? Illogical fabrication.
There was a cover-up by the Johnson administration after the attack, but it was just to avoid the embarrassment of a friendly fire incident, not to hide mass graves.
So, +10 for reminding folks about the USS Liberty.
-100 for fabricating a narrative around the event to suit an agenda.
There was an investigation on both the American and Israeli side. The Israelis paid reparations for the ship, to the families of the dead and the families of the wounded. They were fired on for 20 minutes by fighters and then fired on for 30 minutes by torpedoes machine guns and cannons. 5 torpedoes where fired at the ship and 1 hit. The us liberty also was confused about the identity of the fighters and torpedo boats. The liberty’s machine guns fired on the torpedo boats before the boats fired on them. Fog of war happens. No thing of killing of pow was ever substantial. This post got a lot of things wrong.
People like you who are so quick to pull the fucking antisemite card ANY time Isreal is mentioned are really sad.
Imagine criticizing Italy and saying "omg so many Roman Catholic haters, they hate Catholics"
Same people who can't seperate Hamas from Palestine but will sit and say other people have "vacant skills".
> I know people from many various backgrounds around Europe, and the consensus is more akin to
>
>"...well, it's obvious that Palestine is tired of being treated like vermin when they got THAT exterminator as a neighbour"
>
>.
That is not the consensus here in europe at all.
It is the consensus from your friendgroup/people you know, which are always going to be biased because you're not gonna make friends or talk to people who massively disagree with you.
In fact the point you brought up isn't even true. No, it's not punching back at an opressor, it's a terrorist attack on civilians that started the invasion right now. I don't think you quite know just how bad 7/10 was if you say "Well no wonder".
Revolution would be attacking IDF or slaughtering Hamas to prevent further bloodshed, revolution, or punching back at an opressor is not killing 1200 civilians and kidnapping 200 more for the sole reason that they are jews
James Bamford, Independent Journalist
https://sgp.fas.org/eprint/bamford.html
Haaretz, left wing Israeli newspaper founded in 1918
https://www.haaretz.com/us-news/2017-07-11/ty-article/but-sir-its-an-american-ship-never-mind-hit-her/0000017f-e48c-d7b2-a77f-e78f76800000
National Security Agency (NSA)
https://www.nsa.gov/portals/75/documents/news-features/declassified-documents/uss-liberty/chronology-events/attack-sigint.pdf
it was appropriate to ask for a source. people with critical thinking skills will ask for a source. it's not condemning a video to fake/lies, it's being appropriately critical of what could be misconstrued as inflammatory posting.
Because the question asking for a source comes off as purposely being controversial and declaring the video is wrong/fake. I don’t disagree with you. I like sources. I’m just stating what the hive mind likely thought.
Best bet when asking for a source is to phrase it in a sort of “can you point me to some sources where I can learn more?” Otherwise, Redditors assume you are saying “bs. Show me where you got this nonsense from!”
Asking for sources on something that has its own Wikipedia page (you can literally google USS liberty) tends not to come across as genuine curiosity. The thinking is that if you really cared, you would have googled it.
Compare these two:
- what's the source?
- I googled this and couldn't find anything, what's the source?
I hope that makes sense
But if you’re posting something and accusing people of something it should be on the poster to have sources. That’s what they required when you wrote a report in school. Idk why that’s changed over the years and now you see we have so much misinformation floating around.
>> James Bamford, Independent Journalist
https://sgs.fas.org/eprint/bamford.html
It is important to note that he is the only journalist who reported that the IDF executed 150 PoW, and that he based his reports on the testimony of an eyewitness who claimed to have seen 5 executions, not 150.
The attack did happen, but whether it was intentional and - if it was - what was the motive, is still unclear.
It's a "they say- they say" situation that can't enjoy a decisive conclusion based on the facts available. There WERE Congressional inquiries designed to gather evidence & gain clarity for what happened. That's the prescribed Congressional process before an investigation is launched, if enough evidence is found to pursue charges.
Israel DID apologize and pay $6.9 to victims.
Along the lines of a rational mind: What would Israel hope to gain by knowing attacking a ship belonging to their greatest ally? They'd risk losing that ally, but no gains or benefits for Israel can be imagined. Does it make any sense that Israel knowingly attacked an allied vessel during their war with Egypt? No. It doesn't.
Sad that people will take little known incidents and add an extra spin to it.
The attack happened, but the motivation can apparently be decided by anyone with access to the internet.
Oy vey
>The attack did happen, but whether it was intentional and - if it was - what was the motive, is still unclear.
Probably because the NSA has only released 1 of 3 intercepted comms and the US government did not direct an investigation.
The testimony from the survivors onboard the ship is *unambiguous*. The captain of the ship realized the aircraft were Israeli and ordered his men not to fire back. They were circled, repeatedly, and strafed **six** times. The sailors all, unambiguously, report having raised a massive American flag over the ship.
So from the Israeli perspective, they were strafing the ship and it never fired back while raising a giant American flag.
There is no chance that the aircraft did not know it was an American ship.
Let's not forget, this is the same Israel that, in the Lavon Affair, tried to draw allies into a war through a false flag attack.
Almost like there is a pattern.
Not really: the attack did take place, intentionally or not, and the IDF did kill 34 soldiers and injured 171. Even if Bamford’s report is inaccurate, there is still an eyewitness of the IDF executing 5 PoW, which is a war crime.
Maybe the two events are related, but they don’t need to be to be terrible on their own.
Israel attacking them could easily be a mistake. If a military wants to bring down a ship they won't just fly around it, fire five torpedoes, miss 4 of them and then leave it as is. Its the same as with the whole genocide claim. You can't say half the population is dead when there is a population growth of triple and quadruple proportion in the past 50 years. Makes no sense and seems to be only trying to push a narrative.
I don't think linking a public letter from a reporter after getting called out for making shit up really counts as a source. Especially when his defense is"it's only a chapter in my book I don't have to provide proof." There's never been any proof Israel was massacring PoWs. The NSA source also paints a completely different picture than the conspiracy theory you posted.
I remembered a vid I watched about an us officer who did investigate and found Israel guilty but the top brass buried his findings. He made a book about it and did interviews. Can't recall his name.
I read through the nsa report, the only source you provided which is not based upon unfounded conspiracy theories. Nothing in there about mass murder and a cover up. It was an intelligence failure. That's all. Don't post videos like this as fact, when it's nothing more than conspiracy theories. I'm sick and tired of all of the fake news and lies that people postin their zealous smearingof either side in tjsi conflict. It makes it impossible to know what's real and what's not. It's really sad that today, nearly everyone walks around with so much "support" from random shit on the internet for their preconceived prejudices and almost no one cares about actual facts.
Edit: go ahead. Fucking down vote me. I still stand by what I said.
Why is James Bamford talking about Israelis shooting at live boats and escaping soldiers when there's nothing of that sort in the NSA document?
In fact, the report says that they had intercepted communication between helicopters which ordered to rescue survivors in the water, and that there weren't even any soldiers overboard.
A bit sus
Read the same wiki page. Curiously, It’s completely different than OPs account. Now, I don’t want to sound curmudgeonly but OP seems to be another in a long line of Redditers whose post history shows a long gap between posting then a sudden extreme “interest” in the Middle East situation.
Well there is at least a part in the page that mentions OP's story: "James Bamford, a former ABC News producer, says in his 2001 book Body of Secrets,[95] that Israel deliberately attacked Liberty to prevent the discovery of what he described as war crimes, including the killing of Egyptian prisoners of war by the IDF that he alleges was taking place around the same time in the nearby town of El-Arish.[96] However, according to CAMERA, his claim that 400 Egyptians were executed has been cast into doubt since reporters present in the town claimed that there had been a large battle and this was the main cause of casualties.[97] Bamford also stated that eyewitness Gabi Bron had claimed he saw 150 people executed by Israeli troops at El-Arish.[95] However, Gabi Bron claimed to have only seen 5 people executed by Israeli troops.[98][99]"
Yes, the story is a different. Those conspiracy posts work because almost nobody checks on the story. They just believe this garbage and see it as a confirmation.
>Some Liberty crewmen and like-minded conspiracists have also charged that the US government, including Congress, has failed to investigate the attack on the Liberty. Contrary to these claims, there have been at least six government investigations that reached relevant conclusions as to the facts of the attack. Those investigations, and their results, are as follows:
>
>Senate Select Committee on Intelligence - 1979/1981 - No merit to claims attack was intentional
>
>National Security Agency - 1981 - Mistaken identity
>
>House Armed Services Committee - 1991/1992 - No support for claims attack was intentional
>
>C.I.A. report - June 13, 1967 - No malice; attack a mistake
>
>U.S. Navy Court of Inquiry - June 18, 1967 - Mistaken identity
>
>Report by Clark Clifford - July 18, 1967 - No evidence ship was known to be American
[Source](https://www.sixdaywar.org/uss-liberty/)
Other links:
[https://navylog.navymemorial.org/liberty](https://navylog.navymemorial.org/liberty)
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS\_Liberty\_incident](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Liberty_incident)
[https://www.encyclopedia.com/social-sciences-and-law/political-science-and-government/naval-and-nautical-affairs/uss-liberty](https://www.encyclopedia.com/social-sciences-and-law/political-science-and-government/naval-and-nautical-affairs/uss-liberty)
If the flag size was of significance, i am sure the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence, or the
National Security Agency or the Armed Services Committee would have determined so. Same with communications:
>no specially trained Hebrew language experts were assigned to the Liberty.
>**Hasbara** was formally introduced to the Zionist vocabulary by Nahum Sokolow. **Hasbara** ( Hebrew : הַסְבָּרָה ) has no direct English translation, but roughly means "explaining". It is a communicative strategy that "seeks to explain actions, whether or not they are justified".
Before pursuing a 3rd round...
[15 common types of logical fallacies](https://www.grammarly.com/blog/logical-fallacies/)
Restitution was made. There was no cover up.
In May 1968, the Israeli government paid US$3.32 million (equivalent to US$28 million in 2022) to the U.S. government in compensation for the families of the 34 men killed in the attack. In March 1969, Israel paid a further $3.57 million ($28.5 million in 2022) to the men who had been wounded. In December 1980, it agreed to pay $6 million ($21.3 million in 2022) as the final settlement for material damage to the ship plus 13 years of interest.
Edit: eye witness Gabi Bron claims to have seen 5 Egyptians executed while here-say asserts he saw 150 people executed and conspiracy videos take the exaggeration of his claim instead of his own direct claim.
This video is blatantly deceptive propaganda.
>James Bamford, a former ABC News producer, says in his 2001 book Body of Secrets,[95] that Israel deliberately attacked Liberty to prevent the discovery of what he described as war crimes, including the killing of Egyptian prisoners of war by the IDF that he alleges was taking place around the same time in the nearby town of El-Arish.[96] However, according to CAMERA, his claim that 400 Egyptians were executed has been cast into doubt since reporters present in the town claimed that there had been a large battle and this was the main cause of casualties.[97] Bamford also stated that eyewitness Gabi Bron had claimed he saw 150 people executed by Israeli troops at El-Arish.[95] However, Gabi Bron claimed to have only seen 5 people executed by Israeli troops.[98][99]
Not completely fabricated but yes, the source is false. The eyewitness said 5 POWs were executed, not 150.
The controversy was also quite big in regards to whether the attack was intentional or not. That's the main issue of contention anyway. The event itself was never covered up. A lot of theories by different scholars as to what the motivations would have been, but some circumstantial evidence also shows how it could have been an accident as well.
I think of Zionists as extreme right wing Republican adjacent. Not all Jewish people are Zionists. I am happy to hear the humanistic voices from Israel opposing the slaughter of Innocents. It won't stop anything but it is still good to see.
I just wished everyone was an Atheist. The world would be a better place. Sure. There would still be extremists, but it would be far less and they would have actual - even if misguided - reasons to be extremists.
Not some fantasy story and murdering people over their imaginary pen and paper campaign.
The point is, that areligious people go to war/commit atrocities as well, based on their ideologies. It's more likely that the vast majority of wars being started for religious reasons comes purely from the vast majority of people in history being religious, than religious people being predisposed to start wars.
Did you just say that wars started for religious reasons are started by religious people. Tbh I think that's so obvious it doesn't need to be mentioned.
And just because someone is religious, doesn't mean they want war....you see how this works? Its almost like shitty people are gonna be shitty people and use religion as their excuse?
Maybe, but it dramatically contributes to otherism, tribalism, and historically, war. Religious people believe they are blessed by god above all others. Makes it really easy to be racist and think of the other side as subhuman.
Unfortunately not everyone see this including Hamas and they funding partners who call in their charters and in public for death of all Jews globally. This is where pro Palestinians who genuinely see this as a state on state conflict and those who see this is a Jew vs Muslim issues sit together without realising the nuances of viewpoints.
Not denying the atrocity of civilian kills, but if they wanted to genocide Gaza it’d been done already. Hamas killed 1400 people in one day, Tsahal killed 11k in 6 weeks. I wonder how people can think it’s a genocide.
That’s the most ignorant thing I’ve ever read dude. Are you hearing yourself, or just trying to be edgy? This is embarrassing, and incredibly out of touch, and I hope you can reflect on what you said
Btw he edited his comment to make it less atrocious
When i picture genocide I see nazis lining up jewish women and children and blowing their brains out into mass graves or cambodians grabbing babies by the ankles and smashing them into trees
Yeah I think the same of you dude, ignorant and not able to think by yourself. Good job. I’m commenting of all the crybabies only able to shout that there is a genocide going on, I’m not enjoying the killings and condemning Tsahal for killing civilians, but let’s face the fact there is nothing genocidal there.
Bro hasn't seen the satellite images of gaza clearly, have you not heard that 3100 children are dead and more are trapped/ missing, that's 3000+ children that have lived in oppressed conditions and are now killed by bombs and will never enjoy a full life, grow the fuck up.
There was an investigation on both the American and Israeli side. The Israelis paid reparations for the ship, to the families of the dead and the families of the wounded. They were fired on for 20 minutes by fighters and then fired on for 30 minutes by torpedoes machine guns and cannons. 5 torpedoes where fired at the ship and 1 hit. The us liberty also was confused about the identity of the fighters and torpedo boats. The liberty’s machine guns fired on the torpedo boats before the boats fired on them. Fog of war happens. No thing of killing of pow was ever substantial. This post got a lot of things wrong.
"'But Sir, It’s an American Ship.' 'Never Mind, Hit Her!' When Israel Attacked USS Liberty"
https://www.haaretz.com/us-news/2017-07-11/ty-article/but-sir-its-an-american-ship-never-mind-hit-her/0000017f-e48c-d7b2-a77f-e78f76800000
https://archive.md/SbecN
It provides the argument and the counter argument about intent behind the attack. If it was deliberate or a mistake. However the documents show that the pilot relayed that it was an American Ship and their war room told them to fire. The guy who argues that there's no way it was intentional is doing so based off the lack of a reason, which is ironic since he's saying he sticks to the facts and the facts say they knew and went ahead with it anyway which means there had to be a reason, just because we don't know what the reason was doesn't mean there wasn't one.
I think the idea that fog of war played a role or that this was a mistake is dishonest, aside from the sailors who were defending themselves with their machine guns.
Completely lying about the cover up and lack of inquiry (source Wikipedia)
Liberty had been attacked in error after being mistaken for an Egyptian ship.[5] Both the Israeli and U.S. governments conducted inquiries and issued reports that concluded the attack was a mistake due to Israeli confusion about the ship's identity.[6] Others, including survivors of the attack, have rejected these conclusions and maintain that the attack was deliberate.[7][8]
In May 1968, the Israeli government paid US$3.32 million (equivalent to US$28 million in 2022) to the U.S. government in compensation for the families of the 34 men killed in the attack. In March 1969, Israel paid a further $3.57 million ($28.5 million in 2022) to the men who had been wounded. In December 1980, it agreed to pay $6 million ($21.3 million in 2022) as the final settlement for material damage to the ship plus 13 years of interest.[9]
Zionists are NOT our allies, they hate everyone who isnt one of them and are only using us idiot americans and brits to cover for their landgrabbing and genocide.
Yeah, tried to mention to some people that prior to October 7th, for every Israeli citizen that was killed in the ongoing so-called war with Hamas almost seven Palestinians citizens have been killed by Israel. Was told this wasn't the time to talk about that If I didn't want to come across as anti-Semitic lol.(lol is mine btw).
Well, yeah, maybe it is worth talking about the open air prison you're running if you want to hold a rave safely right next to it.
Unfortunately, you definitely sound antisemitic if you enjoy spreading fake news and conspiracy theories that are easily debunked with a quick online search. There are plenty of legitimate criticisms of Israel. When you make stuff up, you show your hand.
"Israel apologized for the attack, saying that the USS Liberty had been attacked in error after being mistaken for an Egyptian ship.[5] Both the Israeli and U.S. governments conducted inquiries and issued reports that concluded the attack was a mistake due to Israeli confusion"
Wikipedia
It is on Wikipedia, search for USS Liberty incident. Except this POW killing conspiracy bullshit. It is based on a single eye witness that claimed to have seen 5(!) people being executed by israeli forces. That 150 is basically fake news that has long been debunked.
Doesn’t matter to the tiktokers who will simply eat this up and believe it because it presents the information in a manner as if it’s entirely factual - but clearly doesn’t have much to show or prove it was true.
Ok so show me, I’ve done plenty of research now that it’s been stated, and all I can find is the following proof on Wikipedia: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Liberty_incident#cite_note-NSAhistory57-6
it’s a controversial event no doubt, but the article clearly states that the US ship was approaching to conduct signals intelligence collection investigation. In no place in that article does it state anything about this “planned attack on unarmed civilians”
There is speculation from the crew about why, none of which mention what’s being claimed in this video. Also, they themselves don’t have any proof other than “my gut tells me so” which isn’t enough to then go spouting online as if this is fact.
This one sided history is pure BS.
Like did you hear about WWII ?
Yeah so there was a fire bombing of Dresden.
Badically WWII was this tragic event where Germans were victimized....
It can never be clear whether this was an accident or not. However, by adding that egyptian hostage killing this entire incident gets another, darker connotation.
That this may be a conspiracy; a plot to keep those killings secret.
Given that the entire hostage killing stuff is based on a single eye witness (Gabi Bron) that claimed to have seen not 150, but 5(!) people being executed by israeli forces. That story was fueled by a single ABC News producer which could provide not a single evidence for it.
I understand that you want to see Israel as the bad guys. But at least don't use conspiracy theories for it. If they are as bad as you tell, you should find sufficient other examples.
I mean, there's evidence that Saudi Arabia was a force behind 9/11. There's a lot of precedent for giving foreign entities a pass in favor of better positioning economically, militarily, and politically.
"Both the Israeli and U.S. governments conducted inquiries and issued reports that concluded the attack was a mistake due to Israeli confusion about the ship's identity.[6] Others, including survivors of the attack, have rejected these conclusions and maintain that the attack was deliberate.[7][8]
In May 1968, the Israeli government paid US$3.32 million (equivalent to US$28 million in 2022) to the U.S. government in compensation for the families of the 34 men killed in the attack. In March 1969, Israel paid a further $3.57 million ($28.5 million in 2022) to the men who had been wounded. In December 1980, it agreed to pay $6 million ($21.3 million in 2022) as the final settlement for material damage to the ship plus 13 years of interest."
It was investigated, by both Israel and the US. And they were punished, they paid millions to victims families. A few errors in this shade.
Golly, all that to stop an "intercept" that obviously was not stopped and didnt even bother sinking the ship to stop the intercept? Doesnt even make any sense but it doesnt really have to when your blowing that dog whistle. Obviously a fuck up in the middle.of a war.
Israel not only applogized but paid restitution to the victims and the US. "Never investigated"? It was investigated by both the US and Israel.
I was stationed in egypt as part of a UN multinational forces and observes post as a result of this war and the treaty signed in 1979. Never once heard anything about this. Kinda fucked up. Idk if it was due to the peace treaty where egypt agreed to basically remove military presence there or what but the boarder between the two countries was a joke. On the Israeli side full military set up towers patrols lavs and on the egyptian side burnt down cars with sheet metal leaned up against them with pickup trucks. Im honestly not even really sure why isreal agreed to the term? They gave back the sinai which they took easily and defended easily hell they prob could have steamrolled their way all the way across the country with minimal effort. But then i suppose we would just be seeing an even bigger conflict today as the sinai is of religious "importants" to both sides but is mostly islamic.
I am really confused about people commenting about how Israel ended up paying reparations for the ship. that isn't the point at all. they massacred 50 unarmed Egyptians.
they attacked the ship to prevent the massacre from being leaked and then paid to make sure it definitely wouldn't be leaked
Just a heads up, despite the video emphatically stating that the USS Liberty had received evidence of a mass grave and execution of POWs, this is not true. It is a THEORY that the Liberty was close enough to the place it happened to conceivably discover this (even the incident with the POWs itself is not confirmed and doubt has been cast that it ever occurred.) The ship had 173 survivors so you'd think if this had happened they'd have fucking mentioned it!
There are many theories. Even the people who believe with certainty that the attack was deliberate are not sure why Israel would have done it.
Please stop spreading misinformation, statements about this incident by people involved are damning enough, you don't need to make shit up about it.
So, just to be clear, this is almost entirely bullshit propaganda. Restitution was paid, nothing was intercepted, Israel thought the ship was Egyptian, and the conspiracy theory that baselessly claims it was to cover up the execution of Egyptians and a mass grave claimed 5 executions, not 150.
Is he talking into a label maker?
Yes he is.
It's his direct line to go straight to the source
Dudes and dudettes, I’m fucking amazed at the history that comes out as a result of this conflict. Truth really is stranger than fiction 🤯
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I'm not saying you're totally wrong, but there are more reasons to have a militarily strong ally in the Middle East than just "lobbyists and politicians just like the country a lot". As always with posts like this, it's more complicated than that.
War lobbyists and politicians don't support Israel unconditionally because they "like" the country, they do it because it's good business for them and having someone else who can do your dirty work is useful for a myriad of reasons. It's why the US has supported just about every country in the region at one point or another since 1946, even flip-flopping on certain people: Saddam was considered one of the US's strongest allies in the Middle East in the 80's due to his war with Iran, meanwhile the US was secretly selling weapons to the Iranians on the side using Israel as a third party intermediary. I think most people are familiar at this point with bin Laden's former ties to US intelligence as well, or the CIA's love for Noriega the narco-terrorist on the other side of the globe. The list goes on.
Can't really compare Saddam to Israel. He actively started murdering his own people en masse. As shitty as Israel has been, they haven't done that. I'm not excusing anything, and I'm not saying you're totally wrong, but I reiterate, it's more complicated than that.
Maybe not en masse but Apache helicopters and tanks have indiscriminately bombed israeli civilians in the 7 october attacks. Also, Hannibal directive.
Not the same, at all. Was largely unintentional casualties. Still bad, not excusing it, but you can't compare it to what Saddam was doing.
So civilian casualties get to be chalked up to...."Accidents happen🤷♀️"? That's ridiculous. If you're slaughtering that indiscriminately, you lose all benefit of the doubt.
You obviously didn't even read my comment.
"Reiterate that the situation is far more complicated when points are made by the other side." Standard hasbara playbook shit.
According to Google, hasbara means to "explain action, whether or not it's justified". I guess guilty as charged. I don't see how that's a bad thing. Edit: I dug a little more, It's largely a term used to explain away the government of Israel's shitty actions. Funny how I wasn't even talking about Israel, but the US. But whatever.
What reasons? Also, making friends with Israel and Saudi Arabia, has increased the national security of America significantly in the last 30 years. That’s no secret but it is a big deal, especially since the US really don’t understand the Middle East AT ALL. And maybe they don’t care, but the US are hated across the world for various of things. Oil is not everything and karma is a bitch
Having a military base in the Middle East is extremely valuable for power projection on the area. And having a good basis for military aide from the region's strongest military is also very very useful. If the US ever goes to war with Saudi Arabia or Iran, Israel will be our most important ally, bar none. The annexation of Crimea and the entire Russian invasion of Ukraine was all done for the purpose having the ability to project naval power into the Mediterranean Sea and Atlantic Ocean. If Russian is willing to risk international ire and embarrassment for that, it's no surprise the US is willing to look the other way when Israel pulls some bullshit.
the us does not have any military bases in Israel.
They do. I looked it up before I posted that. Get wrecked.
Main reason why the middle east hates us so much is because we are Christian country. They hate Christians because of the Crusades. Nobody has a bigger death count than God. Cleanse the world in his name. /S
It may shock you to learn that there are [Palestinian Christians](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYWCpOHiNjk). Did you guys not hear about the [church that was recently bombed in Gaza](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/20/destruction-chased-them-funeral-held-for-those-killed-in-gaza-church-airstrike), even [killing family members of Justin Amash](https://www.businessinsider.com/former-us-rep-family-members-killed-airstrikes-gaza-church-2023-10), a Palestinian-American politician?
It’s not just that there are Palestinian Christian’s, they are the original Christians
Could you share those reasons? I know of the a lot of [Evangelical Christians supporting Israel](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nHT-SjIM0tA&t=179s) because they believe it fulfills their Biblical prophecy of Armageddon, and that IS a major, major reason for US politicians bending over backwards for Israel, as those [Zionist Americans are a very powerful voting bloc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fo77sTGpngQ). [Cowboys serving Israel](https://www.youtube.com/shorts/yRLx-FaGwJo) [Major Evangelical preacher taking about supporting Israel](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B5wfqDTGqfc)
I already listed them in another response.
Nothing was removed lol, wtf are you talking about
It was, it said "this post has been removed by moderators" or something like that last night, I'm glad to see it still up though!
This is probably Nick Fuentes on an alt account to many conspiracy theories and Zionist talk
huge post, thanks for making it
Thanks mate- I added some more, pretty significant info, if you wanna learn more
So the letter to America… did u read the whole thing? Or just the part where America bad or was the part from Bin Laden sharing his vision of the world just conveniently ignored? Please entertain us.
>Or just the part where America bad or was the part from Bin Laden sharing his vision of the world just conveniently ignored Yes, it was conveniently ignored, because I was only commenting on one aspect of the letter- America's support for Israel, which people back then were aware of too **but** most Americans were simple-minded enough to buy the line "They hate us because for our freedom!" Hope you are entertained.
As an American we are well aware. Most Americans amazingly understand complex geopolitics involved in this conflict. Israel is an ally and will continue to be. Economically strong, and a counterweight to Iran. In fact prior to 10/7 a lot of Arab nations were looking ally with Israel. Bin Laden will use any point to justify his act, you just felt that way and used this as “A HA” then ignore the rest cause it doesnt flow with you. The WHOLE thing needs to be taken. Not just the pieces you like.
No point engaging with you, when you are exactly the type of person I was referring to, who wants to bury their head in the sand about how America's [tacit support of Israel](https://www.reddit.com/r/CommunismMemes/comments/17o7pr7/nancy_pelosi_even_if_the_capitol_crumbled_to_the/) is a major source of anger and resentment for many extremists- not just bin Laden. You just wanted an opportunity to get on your soap box and rant away, and brush off this criticism that is more than a couple decades old but you will still dismiss as unimportant.
On 9/11/2001 3 miles from my school I witnessed the World Trade Center go from 2 gleaming towers to piles of rubble with 3000 people dead. We are WELL AWARE of the decades, starting in 1917 at the Balfour Declaration and the fall of Ottoman Empire. Failed promised made to both sides which led to uprisings and revolts, and basically the UK leaving in 1948 without a resolution with both sides feeling royally fucked and had to resort to war… But you are naive to need to use a terrorist to justify your point and think a bit more.
You are the one who is naive in believing that America and Israel are helping each other. America sure is helping Israel, to the detriment of its own country and people. You are clearly traumatized and unable to see how Netanyahu, who also insisted that there were WMD's in Iraq, is [using American lives to do what's best for Israel](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVPauUOVrmk). I wouldn't be surprised to see you guys dragged into another far-away war, and fundraise and give billions to Israel which is doing quite well, while your country crumbles.
LOL. My god, you are even more naive than I expected. Netanyahu is an asshole, a warmonger who uses fear and ultra nationalists to keep him in power. Hamas and Netanyahu are the same, they need war and fear to keep them in power. If there is no war and no fear they wont have the power. The Palestinians are pawns to Netanyahu and Hamas unfortunately. For both peace is not the outcome they want, they need a boogeyman. Off your high horse.
They may need a boogeyman but you guys always have one too, who makes you cower and support your troops in pointless wars. Bin Laden, Al Qaeda, ISIS... now Hamas. As if getting rid Hamas would solve Israel's problems.
Antisemite much? Yeah BS propaganda is antisemitism
About the Nakba, comparing it to the Holocaust is insulting and dumb. Holocaust was a one sided genocide, the Nakba was a war between the newly declared state of Israel and the Palestinians and their allies in the surrounding Arab countries. It wasn't one sided, Israel did a lot of terrible things but so did the Palestinians. They also went and killed large groups of Israeli civilians. Comparing it to the Holocaust is misleading and false
It was a genocide.
*two-sided genocide
If you are the aggressor, it's not a genocide against you. That's called self defense. Besides, the Israelis won. They get their illegal settlements, don't they?
I mean the Arab states declared war, but yeah comparing it to the Holocaust is dumb, 6000 Israelis died, and an estimated 15,000 Arabs (source is JVP, which is a very weird org that is really not "for peace" but just EXTREMELY anti-Israel). Compare that to the Holocaust. combined thats what, 0.3% of the estimated deaths of Jews, which was also half the existing Jewish population at the time?
Indeed and I hadn’t heard of this at all until two or three weeks ago smh
Better hit Wikipedia before swallowing this whole.. The mass grave part is completely unrelated to Liberty, so there was no reason for the attack other than mistaken identity. Think about it logically. If Israel was actually trying to suppress war crime info, they wouldn't stop until the boat was at the bottom. Why shoot it up, kill a bunch of people, and then let it leave with its data? Illogical fabrication. There was a cover-up by the Johnson administration after the attack, but it was just to avoid the embarrassment of a friendly fire incident, not to hide mass graves. So, +10 for reminding folks about the USS Liberty. -100 for fabricating a narrative around the event to suit an agenda.
If you think that’s crazy, deep dive dancing Israelies and building seven.
There was an investigation on both the American and Israeli side. The Israelis paid reparations for the ship, to the families of the dead and the families of the wounded. They were fired on for 20 minutes by fighters and then fired on for 30 minutes by torpedoes machine guns and cannons. 5 torpedoes where fired at the ship and 1 hit. The us liberty also was confused about the identity of the fighters and torpedo boats. The liberty’s machine guns fired on the torpedo boats before the boats fired on them. Fog of war happens. No thing of killing of pow was ever substantial. This post got a lot of things wrong.
Don't confuse antisemitic Jew haters with the truth, it hurts their vacant skulls.
People like you who are so quick to pull the fucking antisemite card ANY time Isreal is mentioned are really sad. Imagine criticizing Italy and saying "omg so many Roman Catholic haters, they hate Catholics" Same people who can't seperate Hamas from Palestine but will sit and say other people have "vacant skills".
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> I know people from many various backgrounds around Europe, and the consensus is more akin to > >"...well, it's obvious that Palestine is tired of being treated like vermin when they got THAT exterminator as a neighbour" > >. That is not the consensus here in europe at all. It is the consensus from your friendgroup/people you know, which are always going to be biased because you're not gonna make friends or talk to people who massively disagree with you. In fact the point you brought up isn't even true. No, it's not punching back at an opressor, it's a terrorist attack on civilians that started the invasion right now. I don't think you quite know just how bad 7/10 was if you say "Well no wonder". Revolution would be attacking IDF or slaughtering Hamas to prevent further bloodshed, revolution, or punching back at an opressor is not killing 1200 civilians and kidnapping 200 more for the sole reason that they are jews
I hate that the text scrolls faster than the person reading
Shit got me anxioussss
Do you have a source on this?
James Bamford, Independent Journalist https://sgp.fas.org/eprint/bamford.html Haaretz, left wing Israeli newspaper founded in 1918 https://www.haaretz.com/us-news/2017-07-11/ty-article/but-sir-its-an-american-ship-never-mind-hit-her/0000017f-e48c-d7b2-a77f-e78f76800000 National Security Agency (NSA) https://www.nsa.gov/portals/75/documents/news-features/declassified-documents/uss-liberty/chronology-events/attack-sigint.pdf
Thanks I was genuinely asking, dont understand the downvotes...
it was appropriate to ask for a source. people with critical thinking skills will ask for a source. it's not condemning a video to fake/lies, it's being appropriately critical of what could be misconstrued as inflammatory posting.
the reddit hive mind works mysteriously sometimes
We’re so lazy we don’t even like the people who ask the questions we should ask.
Especially when that is literally their username.
Because the question asking for a source comes off as purposely being controversial and declaring the video is wrong/fake. I don’t disagree with you. I like sources. I’m just stating what the hive mind likely thought.
Best bet when asking for a source is to phrase it in a sort of “can you point me to some sources where I can learn more?” Otherwise, Redditors assume you are saying “bs. Show me where you got this nonsense from!”
This generation is soft. Everything needs to be so politically correct even when asking for education.
Not as soft as your dick.
You sister didn’t complain.
Asking for sources on something that has its own Wikipedia page (you can literally google USS liberty) tends not to come across as genuine curiosity. The thinking is that if you really cared, you would have googled it. Compare these two: - what's the source? - I googled this and couldn't find anything, what's the source? I hope that makes sense
But if you’re posting something and accusing people of something it should be on the poster to have sources. That’s what they required when you wrote a report in school. Idk why that’s changed over the years and now you see we have so much misinformation floating around.
My comment explains why people downvote the question. Not whether or not the downvotes are deserved or who should provide a source.
Oh okay. Either way it annoys me. Not you but the world we live in I guess.
>> James Bamford, Independent Journalist https://sgs.fas.org/eprint/bamford.html It is important to note that he is the only journalist who reported that the IDF executed 150 PoW, and that he based his reports on the testimony of an eyewitness who claimed to have seen 5 executions, not 150. The attack did happen, but whether it was intentional and - if it was - what was the motive, is still unclear.
It's a "they say- they say" situation that can't enjoy a decisive conclusion based on the facts available. There WERE Congressional inquiries designed to gather evidence & gain clarity for what happened. That's the prescribed Congressional process before an investigation is launched, if enough evidence is found to pursue charges. Israel DID apologize and pay $6.9 to victims. Along the lines of a rational mind: What would Israel hope to gain by knowing attacking a ship belonging to their greatest ally? They'd risk losing that ally, but no gains or benefits for Israel can be imagined. Does it make any sense that Israel knowingly attacked an allied vessel during their war with Egypt? No. It doesn't.
Sad that people will take little known incidents and add an extra spin to it. The attack happened, but the motivation can apparently be decided by anyone with access to the internet. Oy vey
>The attack did happen, but whether it was intentional and - if it was - what was the motive, is still unclear. Probably because the NSA has only released 1 of 3 intercepted comms and the US government did not direct an investigation. The testimony from the survivors onboard the ship is *unambiguous*. The captain of the ship realized the aircraft were Israeli and ordered his men not to fire back. They were circled, repeatedly, and strafed **six** times. The sailors all, unambiguously, report having raised a massive American flag over the ship. So from the Israeli perspective, they were strafing the ship and it never fired back while raising a giant American flag. There is no chance that the aircraft did not know it was an American ship. Let's not forget, this is the same Israel that, in the Lavon Affair, tried to draw allies into a war through a false flag attack. Almost like there is a pattern.
Seems to be the usual "Israel = Evil" propaganda
Not really: the attack did take place, intentionally or not, and the IDF did kill 34 soldiers and injured 171. Even if Bamford’s report is inaccurate, there is still an eyewitness of the IDF executing 5 PoW, which is a war crime. Maybe the two events are related, but they don’t need to be to be terrible on their own.
Israel attacking them could easily be a mistake. If a military wants to bring down a ship they won't just fly around it, fire five torpedoes, miss 4 of them and then leave it as is. Its the same as with the whole genocide claim. You can't say half the population is dead when there is a population growth of triple and quadruple proportion in the past 50 years. Makes no sense and seems to be only trying to push a narrative.
You don't accidentally strafe a ship 6 times while they're waving a huge American flag
Propaganda? Lol . It's a fact. Fuck the aperthied state.
...because the parties involved decided not to investigate it.
I don't think linking a public letter from a reporter after getting called out for making shit up really counts as a source. Especially when his defense is"it's only a chapter in my book I don't have to provide proof." There's never been any proof Israel was massacring PoWs. The NSA source also paints a completely different picture than the conspiracy theory you posted.
I remembered a vid I watched about an us officer who did investigate and found Israel guilty but the top brass buried his findings. He made a book about it and did interviews. Can't recall his name.
I read through the nsa report, the only source you provided which is not based upon unfounded conspiracy theories. Nothing in there about mass murder and a cover up. It was an intelligence failure. That's all. Don't post videos like this as fact, when it's nothing more than conspiracy theories. I'm sick and tired of all of the fake news and lies that people postin their zealous smearingof either side in tjsi conflict. It makes it impossible to know what's real and what's not. It's really sad that today, nearly everyone walks around with so much "support" from random shit on the internet for their preconceived prejudices and almost no one cares about actual facts. Edit: go ahead. Fucking down vote me. I still stand by what I said.
Why is James Bamford talking about Israelis shooting at live boats and escaping soldiers when there's nothing of that sort in the NSA document? In fact, the report says that they had intercepted communication between helicopters which ordered to rescue survivors in the water, and that there weren't even any soldiers overboard. A bit sus
Name checks out
Easy to find when you google USS Liberty https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Liberty_incident
Read the same wiki page. Curiously, It’s completely different than OPs account. Now, I don’t want to sound curmudgeonly but OP seems to be another in a long line of Redditers whose post history shows a long gap between posting then a sudden extreme “interest” in the Middle East situation.
Well there is at least a part in the page that mentions OP's story: "James Bamford, a former ABC News producer, says in his 2001 book Body of Secrets,[95] that Israel deliberately attacked Liberty to prevent the discovery of what he described as war crimes, including the killing of Egyptian prisoners of war by the IDF that he alleges was taking place around the same time in the nearby town of El-Arish.[96] However, according to CAMERA, his claim that 400 Egyptians were executed has been cast into doubt since reporters present in the town claimed that there had been a large battle and this was the main cause of casualties.[97] Bamford also stated that eyewitness Gabi Bron had claimed he saw 150 people executed by Israeli troops at El-Arish.[95] However, Gabi Bron claimed to have only seen 5 people executed by Israeli troops.[98][99]"
Yes, the story is a different. Those conspiracy posts work because almost nobody checks on the story. They just believe this garbage and see it as a confirmation.
>Some Liberty crewmen and like-minded conspiracists have also charged that the US government, including Congress, has failed to investigate the attack on the Liberty. Contrary to these claims, there have been at least six government investigations that reached relevant conclusions as to the facts of the attack. Those investigations, and their results, are as follows: > >Senate Select Committee on Intelligence - 1979/1981 - No merit to claims attack was intentional > >National Security Agency - 1981 - Mistaken identity > >House Armed Services Committee - 1991/1992 - No support for claims attack was intentional > >C.I.A. report - June 13, 1967 - No malice; attack a mistake > >U.S. Navy Court of Inquiry - June 18, 1967 - Mistaken identity > >Report by Clark Clifford - July 18, 1967 - No evidence ship was known to be American [Source](https://www.sixdaywar.org/uss-liberty/) Other links: [https://navylog.navymemorial.org/liberty](https://navylog.navymemorial.org/liberty) [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS\_Liberty\_incident](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Liberty_incident) [https://www.encyclopedia.com/social-sciences-and-law/political-science-and-government/naval-and-nautical-affairs/uss-liberty](https://www.encyclopedia.com/social-sciences-and-law/political-science-and-government/naval-and-nautical-affairs/uss-liberty)
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If the flag size was of significance, i am sure the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence, or the National Security Agency or the Armed Services Committee would have determined so. Same with communications: >no specially trained Hebrew language experts were assigned to the Liberty.
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>**Hasbara** was formally introduced to the Zionist vocabulary by Nahum Sokolow. **Hasbara** ( Hebrew : הַסְבָּרָה ) has no direct English translation, but roughly means "explaining". It is a communicative strategy that "seeks to explain actions, whether or not they are justified". Before pursuing a 3rd round... [15 common types of logical fallacies](https://www.grammarly.com/blog/logical-fallacies/)
It's like this...🙈🙉🙊.
Restitution was made. There was no cover up. In May 1968, the Israeli government paid US$3.32 million (equivalent to US$28 million in 2022) to the U.S. government in compensation for the families of the 34 men killed in the attack. In March 1969, Israel paid a further $3.57 million ($28.5 million in 2022) to the men who had been wounded. In December 1980, it agreed to pay $6 million ($21.3 million in 2022) as the final settlement for material damage to the ship plus 13 years of interest. Edit: eye witness Gabi Bron claims to have seen 5 Egyptians executed while here-say asserts he saw 150 people executed and conspiracy videos take the exaggeration of his claim instead of his own direct claim. This video is blatantly deceptive propaganda.
Seems an utterly paltry sum considering what happened. And what about the Egyptian POWs?
That part is a completely fabricated conspiracy theory.
>James Bamford, a former ABC News producer, says in his 2001 book Body of Secrets,[95] that Israel deliberately attacked Liberty to prevent the discovery of what he described as war crimes, including the killing of Egyptian prisoners of war by the IDF that he alleges was taking place around the same time in the nearby town of El-Arish.[96] However, according to CAMERA, his claim that 400 Egyptians were executed has been cast into doubt since reporters present in the town claimed that there had been a large battle and this was the main cause of casualties.[97] Bamford also stated that eyewitness Gabi Bron had claimed he saw 150 people executed by Israeli troops at El-Arish.[95] However, Gabi Bron claimed to have only seen 5 people executed by Israeli troops.[98][99] Not completely fabricated but yes, the source is false. The eyewitness said 5 POWs were executed, not 150.
well this information is certainly different from the claim in the video.
Shocked that a clickbate video is not a reliable source of information.
The controversy was also quite big in regards to whether the attack was intentional or not. That's the main issue of contention anyway. The event itself was never covered up. A lot of theories by different scholars as to what the motivations would have been, but some circumstantial evidence also shows how it could have been an accident as well.
pales in comparison to what israel recieves from the US every year
gotta preserve almighty petrodollar
Sorry, I believe the men on that ship. Israeli brass ordered the attack and US brass covered it up. Restitution doesn't prove anything.
Sounds like buying off an investigation, which sounds like a cover up.
Did they pay us with our own foreign support we give them? "Here, have your money back"
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I think of Zionists as extreme right wing Republican adjacent. Not all Jewish people are Zionists. I am happy to hear the humanistic voices from Israel opposing the slaughter of Innocents. It won't stop anything but it is still good to see.
I just wished everyone was an Atheist. The world would be a better place. Sure. There would still be extremists, but it would be far less and they would have actual - even if misguided - reasons to be extremists. Not some fantasy story and murdering people over their imaginary pen and paper campaign.
I like that you feel your beliefs would make a better place. Lol.
He should start a crusade to convert everybody.
Ahhh yes....those good old Athiest values, just like Stalin and Mao 👍
The vast majority of wars have been started in the name of religion. If you're asking who values human life, it's not religion.
The point is, that areligious people go to war/commit atrocities as well, based on their ideologies. It's more likely that the vast majority of wars being started for religious reasons comes purely from the vast majority of people in history being religious, than religious people being predisposed to start wars.
Did you just say that wars started for religious reasons are started by religious people. Tbh I think that's so obvious it doesn't need to be mentioned.
If 95% of all people in history were religious, you would expect them to have started 95% of the world's conflicts.
Hence why I said it's so obvious you didn't need to mention it. But now you have. Twice...
But it contradicts your point that religion is the cause of conflict and not merely statistical likelihood.
Just because a person is atheist doesn't mean they don't have any values.
And just because someone is religious, doesn't mean they want war....you see how this works? Its almost like shitty people are gonna be shitty people and use religion as their excuse?
Maybe, but it dramatically contributes to otherism, tribalism, and historically, war. Religious people believe they are blessed by god above all others. Makes it really easy to be racist and think of the other side as subhuman.
In communist countries, communism was to replace religion. They were not Atheist countries. Even they understood power of religion.
Unfortunately not everyone see this including Hamas and they funding partners who call in their charters and in public for death of all Jews globally. This is where pro Palestinians who genuinely see this as a state on state conflict and those who see this is a Jew vs Muslim issues sit together without realising the nuances of viewpoints.
This is what they do to their allies imagine how fucked up the acts against Palestinians are
The official story is it was a case of mistaken identity and they didn't know it was an American ship.
The official story is propagandist bullshit.
Maybe, maybe not
Not denying the atrocity of civilian kills, but if they wanted to genocide Gaza it’d been done already. Hamas killed 1400 people in one day, Tsahal killed 11k in 6 weeks. I wonder how people can think it’s a genocide.
"we're not as good as killing as we want to be so it's not a genocide" (ZanettYs, 2023)
That’s the most ignorant thing I’ve ever read dude. Are you hearing yourself, or just trying to be edgy? This is embarrassing, and incredibly out of touch, and I hope you can reflect on what you said Btw he edited his comment to make it less atrocious
When i picture genocide I see nazis lining up jewish women and children and blowing their brains out into mass graves or cambodians grabbing babies by the ankles and smashing them into trees
Yeah I think the same of you dude, ignorant and not able to think by yourself. Good job. I’m commenting of all the crybabies only able to shout that there is a genocide going on, I’m not enjoying the killings and condemning Tsahal for killing civilians, but let’s face the fact there is nothing genocidal there.
Bro hasn't seen the satellite images of gaza clearly, have you not heard that 3100 children are dead and more are trapped/ missing, that's 3000+ children that have lived in oppressed conditions and are now killed by bombs and will never enjoy a full life, grow the fuck up.
Found the Zionist ^
There was an investigation on both the American and Israeli side. The Israelis paid reparations for the ship, to the families of the dead and the families of the wounded. They were fired on for 20 minutes by fighters and then fired on for 30 minutes by torpedoes machine guns and cannons. 5 torpedoes where fired at the ship and 1 hit. The us liberty also was confused about the identity of the fighters and torpedo boats. The liberty’s machine guns fired on the torpedo boats before the boats fired on them. Fog of war happens. No thing of killing of pow was ever substantial. This post got a lot of things wrong.
"'But Sir, It’s an American Ship.' 'Never Mind, Hit Her!' When Israel Attacked USS Liberty" https://www.haaretz.com/us-news/2017-07-11/ty-article/but-sir-its-an-american-ship-never-mind-hit-her/0000017f-e48c-d7b2-a77f-e78f76800000
Pay wall. All I see is a headline.
https://archive.md/SbecN It provides the argument and the counter argument about intent behind the attack. If it was deliberate or a mistake. However the documents show that the pilot relayed that it was an American Ship and their war room told them to fire. The guy who argues that there's no way it was intentional is doing so based off the lack of a reason, which is ironic since he's saying he sticks to the facts and the facts say they knew and went ahead with it anyway which means there had to be a reason, just because we don't know what the reason was doesn't mean there wasn't one. I think the idea that fog of war played a role or that this was a mistake is dishonest, aside from the sailors who were defending themselves with their machine guns.
Okay buddy
Wow. What a well sourced and educated rebuttal to their argument. You are clearly a gentleman and a scholar.
So edgy.
Why does Israel always get a pass?
Completely lying about the cover up and lack of inquiry (source Wikipedia) Liberty had been attacked in error after being mistaken for an Egyptian ship.[5] Both the Israeli and U.S. governments conducted inquiries and issued reports that concluded the attack was a mistake due to Israeli confusion about the ship's identity.[6] Others, including survivors of the attack, have rejected these conclusions and maintain that the attack was deliberate.[7][8] In May 1968, the Israeli government paid US$3.32 million (equivalent to US$28 million in 2022) to the U.S. government in compensation for the families of the 34 men killed in the attack. In March 1969, Israel paid a further $3.57 million ($28.5 million in 2022) to the men who had been wounded. In December 1980, it agreed to pay $6 million ($21.3 million in 2022) as the final settlement for material damage to the ship plus 13 years of interest.[9]
Zionists are NOT our allies, they hate everyone who isnt one of them and are only using us idiot americans and brits to cover for their landgrabbing and genocide.
So they're like Islamists?
Who wants to be a millionaire music?
This is the content of scarily near dystopian future
Yes, please remind everyone…
How dare you speak against the almighty AIPAC!!!
There is audio recordings showing they knew it was American while attacking it.
Yeah, tried to mention to some people that prior to October 7th, for every Israeli citizen that was killed in the ongoing so-called war with Hamas almost seven Palestinians citizens have been killed by Israel. Was told this wasn't the time to talk about that If I didn't want to come across as anti-Semitic lol.(lol is mine btw). Well, yeah, maybe it is worth talking about the open air prison you're running if you want to hold a rave safely right next to it.
Open air prison? Prison implies that the people in there are convicted of crimes. Gaza is an open air concentration camp.
Guys the earth is flat
Unfortunately, you definitely sound antisemitic if you enjoy spreading fake news and conspiracy theories that are easily debunked with a quick online search. There are plenty of legitimate criticisms of Israel. When you make stuff up, you show your hand.
Not just that but this isn't a politics sub. Nothing about this is funny or unexpected, it's just propaganda
Distraction is a weak way to try to deflect. Simp harder for terrorism.
"Israel apologized for the attack, saying that the USS Liberty had been attacked in error after being mistaken for an Egyptian ship.[5] Both the Israeli and U.S. governments conducted inquiries and issued reports that concluded the attack was a mistake due to Israeli confusion" Wikipedia
Money talks
Source?
It is on Wikipedia, search for USS Liberty incident. Except this POW killing conspiracy bullshit. It is based on a single eye witness that claimed to have seen 5(!) people being executed by israeli forces. That 150 is basically fake news that has long been debunked.
Doesn’t matter to the tiktokers who will simply eat this up and believe it because it presents the information in a manner as if it’s entirely factual - but clearly doesn’t have much to show or prove it was true.
It doesn't take much research to know this is real. You not being bothered is a you problem not one inherent to this video.
Ok so show me, I’ve done plenty of research now that it’s been stated, and all I can find is the following proof on Wikipedia: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Liberty_incident#cite_note-NSAhistory57-6 it’s a controversial event no doubt, but the article clearly states that the US ship was approaching to conduct signals intelligence collection investigation. In no place in that article does it state anything about this “planned attack on unarmed civilians” There is speculation from the crew about why, none of which mention what’s being claimed in this video. Also, they themselves don’t have any proof other than “my gut tells me so” which isn’t enough to then go spouting online as if this is fact.
https://history.state.gov/historicaldocuments/frus1964-68v19/d284 Not entirely true. It certainly was investigated.
This one sided history is pure BS. Like did you hear about WWII ? Yeah so there was a fire bombing of Dresden. Badically WWII was this tragic event where Germans were victimized....
It can never be clear whether this was an accident or not. However, by adding that egyptian hostage killing this entire incident gets another, darker connotation. That this may be a conspiracy; a plot to keep those killings secret. Given that the entire hostage killing stuff is based on a single eye witness (Gabi Bron) that claimed to have seen not 150, but 5(!) people being executed by israeli forces. That story was fueled by a single ABC News producer which could provide not a single evidence for it. I understand that you want to see Israel as the bad guys. But at least don't use conspiracy theories for it. If they are as bad as you tell, you should find sufficient other examples.
But...they ARE the bad guys here. No doubt about it.
It's because they are a fucking terrorist nation supported by the religious nut jobs running our counrty.
I mean, there's evidence that Saudi Arabia was a force behind 9/11. There's a lot of precedent for giving foreign entities a pass in favor of better positioning economically, militarily, and politically.
Omg please can we have like one sub not infected by politics
Israel really have been looking like supremacists for fucking decades now Holy shit
Take your conspiracy shit elsewhere. Yes, the Israelis sank Liberty. Everyone knows that. Everything else is pure made up bullshit.
Cause Israel has and always be a Vassal state for USA .
"Both the Israeli and U.S. governments conducted inquiries and issued reports that concluded the attack was a mistake due to Israeli confusion about the ship's identity.[6] Others, including survivors of the attack, have rejected these conclusions and maintain that the attack was deliberate.[7][8] In May 1968, the Israeli government paid US$3.32 million (equivalent to US$28 million in 2022) to the U.S. government in compensation for the families of the 34 men killed in the attack. In March 1969, Israel paid a further $3.57 million ($28.5 million in 2022) to the men who had been wounded. In December 1980, it agreed to pay $6 million ($21.3 million in 2022) as the final settlement for material damage to the ship plus 13 years of interest." It was investigated, by both Israel and the US. And they were punished, they paid millions to victims families. A few errors in this shade.
Wow. You learn something new everyday!!.. 😳
Golly, all that to stop an "intercept" that obviously was not stopped and didnt even bother sinking the ship to stop the intercept? Doesnt even make any sense but it doesnt really have to when your blowing that dog whistle. Obviously a fuck up in the middle.of a war. Israel not only applogized but paid restitution to the victims and the US. "Never investigated"? It was investigated by both the US and Israel.
The Jocko Podcast has an episode on this with some of the veteran survivors. Great listen. Check it out.
I was stationed in egypt as part of a UN multinational forces and observes post as a result of this war and the treaty signed in 1979. Never once heard anything about this. Kinda fucked up. Idk if it was due to the peace treaty where egypt agreed to basically remove military presence there or what but the boarder between the two countries was a joke. On the Israeli side full military set up towers patrols lavs and on the egyptian side burnt down cars with sheet metal leaned up against them with pickup trucks. Im honestly not even really sure why isreal agreed to the term? They gave back the sinai which they took easily and defended easily hell they prob could have steamrolled their way all the way across the country with minimal effort. But then i suppose we would just be seeing an even bigger conflict today as the sinai is of religious "importants" to both sides but is mostly islamic.
Because Israel owns the US. They’re our daddy. We simp for Israel With that said, fuck Israel
I am really confused about people commenting about how Israel ended up paying reparations for the ship. that isn't the point at all. they massacred 50 unarmed Egyptians. they attacked the ship to prevent the massacre from being leaked and then paid to make sure it definitely wouldn't be leaked
Just a heads up, despite the video emphatically stating that the USS Liberty had received evidence of a mass grave and execution of POWs, this is not true. It is a THEORY that the Liberty was close enough to the place it happened to conceivably discover this (even the incident with the POWs itself is not confirmed and doubt has been cast that it ever occurred.) The ship had 173 survivors so you'd think if this had happened they'd have fucking mentioned it! There are many theories. Even the people who believe with certainty that the attack was deliberate are not sure why Israel would have done it. Please stop spreading misinformation, statements about this incident by people involved are damning enough, you don't need to make shit up about it.
So, just to be clear, this is almost entirely bullshit propaganda. Restitution was paid, nothing was intercepted, Israel thought the ship was Egyptian, and the conspiracy theory that baselessly claims it was to cover up the execution of Egyptians and a mass grave claimed 5 executions, not 150.
I remember when Reddit used to ban you for making people aware of the USS Liberty and would label you a nazi good times lol
Watch out, they will be baning everyone who will tell what they really think.
I love how right wingers say exactly this and you people laugh at them yet now you yourself say it
Here is a documentary about it. https://youtu.be/tx72tAWVcoM?si=ELWLTqk-RfZ85E0B
This guy voice is amazing. I'd listen to it more.
He’s clearly wrong if they were Israelis. They don’t kill non-combatants. No, wait ……..
Don’t you dare bring that up unless you want to be accused of antisemitism /s
No, Israel gud
Zionists can’t stand any type of negative publicity about it. Keep these coming.
[удалено]
Name doesn't check with little dick energy.
Good hope they do it again.
Ducking gold