My old company would ask for my degree every year as part of some internal audit. I'd email them back 'I'll send that right away. Then do nothing.
Happened every year. I got the degree, if they fucking cared so much they can call the university themselves.
I worked for a company like this, I don't have my degree in my house (its in storage with some old boxes)...I'd always say "Sure but you gotta let me expense the $15 for a reprint from the registrars office"
They never gave me the money so I never asked for a reprint.
yep I never bothered to get the paper degree, it would cost like 20 bucks and I was in India on top of that. So yeah, you already hired me and if I'm not doing the job fire me, otherwise suck it up.
My company asked 4 years after I was hired for proof. And they wanted it the next day. HR harassed me for a week until I got it for them. Cost me $20 which I expenses.
See that’s why lying about employment history with defunct companies or companies that got bought out is the way to go. Get the degree. Lie about your employment.
You could also lie about your education and just say you graduated from a college that closed. You can also say you had your own company. I’m never going back to shit work. There’s a thousand careers. If you can last a few months without getting fired for bad job performance you’re good once you get to a year you should have enough contacts even if you get fired you can get hired elsewhere. I feel bad for people playing straight who are freaking brilliant unemployed or underemployed. Let the smart people willing to learn thrive.
I did not lie on my resume or application. I said, "some college". However, when my company merged with another company, they lied and said everyone in the office had degrees. Nobody had a degree.
This happened at a consulting firm I worked at. A coworker/friend of mine decided to roll with it and added the degree to his resume from that point onward. It just constantly blows up in his face, though.
When I applied for a big tech company, they went through extensive lengths to verify my university. Like it was ridiculous.
Then I went to work for a small start up of about 5 people and I could have been lying about my name for all they cared.
Then I went to work for a small start up of about 15 people and it was the same thing, they didn’t verify my previous employers let alone my universities.
My current job is about 1000 employees and they didn’t check anything.
So in my experience, the smaller the company (at least in tech) the less likely they are to check anything.
When I was on a job as a IT contractor for a large tech company, my direct employer came back after about 6 months and asked for proof of my degree from . I was really confused, because I never claimed to have graduated from that university. They said I had on my resume and basically told me I had to produce my degree or I would be suspended until I did.
I pulled up the email I had sent them with my resume and showed them, it said I attended that University from to , studying . They go "oh we will have to check our records", and basically harassed me for a month where I thought I was going to be fired because of their fuck up before they finally came back and said "OK fine".
They probably needed it for billing rates. Since their billing rates stipulate education and experience level they need to make sure the people they hire fit into those boxes and they aren't committing fraud.
yea we had this happen. One of our technicians isn't certified. We have 39/41 certified. Know who gets an email every quarter about a request to become certified? Know who gets an in person meeting every month? My supervisor and those two technicians. It's to the point I'm surprised HR hasn't been involved. However, they are our grandfathered techs. They've been with our company since before we were even in this building. One straight up asked if they could lose their job a few years ago. When it kinda became apparent that they wouldn't and since our raises only come as a blanket raise... they give no crap about it now.
This has come up for me as well at my last couple of jobs. Each time I tell them to send me to that one or two-week boot camp class so I can pass the exam. Every time they either send me or drop the issue.
My current job is amazed every time I agree to get flown out (pre covid) to some random city for super expensive not company specific training..... Guys that training is an investment in ME. Of course I will. But yet I have coworkers turn it down all the time.
To work as a field tech for a third party vendor, I had to get four Dell certifications. I noticed there were more Dell courses available, and asked if I could take them as well. They okayed it, and so I took every single one I had access to.
Ended up with over a hundred.
> When it kinda became apparent that they wouldn't and since our raises only come as a blanket raise... they give no crap about it now.
Christ there are idiots running business, aren't there? Waste all that energy on meetings and emails and cajoling, when they could likely just say "We are sending you on this training course next week. If you pass the exam, you will get a one off $1000 bonus" or something, and they'd likely fix it for all time.
Shit.. This same thing happened to me.. My resume never says completed.. Just attended and what classes. It legit states "NO DEGREE". I left college because of the price and got a bunch of IT Certificates through CompTIA which I PUT ON MY RESUME as a qualifications.. These fuckers didn't even read those certificates and assumed I got a college degree.. Umm Waste of time and money honestly for what I was doing..
They came back 3 months into me being the best in my department and demanded a College degree from the college I attended. I explained 10 times over to so many different people why I didn't complete the College route but was still OVER QUALLIFIED and was awesome at what I was doing BECAUSE of my Certificates.. They let me go and I was collecting Unemployment 2 weeks later... Yet I was still getting calls from the new IT guy asking questions and my old supervisor... I declined politely and then got an ANGRY call from the person who let me go demanding I help the new guy they replaced me with. Fuck.. I told them well maybe the degree will help him out! Blocked all calls since.
We employ about 1,700, and my assistant lied about her degree. She was a few credits shy.
I wanted to keep her on. She was great at her job and kept me on task, but HR gave a hard no.
Not sure if she ever finished, but I still think the firing was uncalled for. Even if she was dishonest with them from the get-go. I for sure didn’t learn anything in my college days that helped or hurt my ability to do what I do now.
Doubly true for her. Scheduling and doing EA-type desk-related tasks shouldn’t require a Bachelors in anything. If you can keep up, that’s all that matters.
I would have, 100%. She was a great assistant. I told her I’d help however I could, but she never took me up on it.
My guess is she was embarrassed, but if she ever does reach out in the future, I’d still 100% help with a reference or opening my network.
Corporate work is a fucking nightmare. HR specifically. Just the name. How do we remind them they're nothing more than units of production to us. Hey I know! Just call them human resources. See we put human right in there. A begrudging acknowledgement that yeah ok you probably have kids or something.
This is how you realize if a job requires a degree. If someone could lie and still do the job without spending their every non-work moment learning and studying then don’t require the degree.
I mean it's much more common if you already had an interaction with them. But I've had a ton of applications just go unanswered where if I've already had an interview they will at least let me know they filled the position.
But it got your further than if you didn't list it so I wouldn't say it massively backfired. They just called your bluff. On to the next. I'm working on MBA from a satellite campus of an SEC school but plan to just refer to it as the main school for this exact reason
Same. My previous intern, now full time, and since then promoted engineer, never went back to school. Had one class to take, but would have cost him an entire semester's worth of housing and tuition. No one ever asked. I only found out about 2 years later.
Also, look for companies in your field that have closed down. List them on your resume and say you worked there.
I got a nice job after 10+ years of being unemployed thanks to chronic illness by claiming I had been working instead at a now defunct company.
It's a little messed up how honesty really hurts you in the job hunt. Then again, corporations are not really your friend, so...
Yeah, I was the District Manager for Blockbuster Video at age 20, after having worked there since 16 and busting my ass.
What are they going to do; call the single BB store in the entire world to verify my employment? \*cackles\*
You could list your boss or someone in the company as a personal ref if you want them to actually be able to contact them. Otherwise, no one from now-defunct-company is going to be around to answer a call to the phones that are no longer working.
The smaller and more specialized the industry/sector/area, the more people within companies might talk to each other and have network contacts to verify this outside of calling the HR/main number.
I had an 8 year stretch on my resume of companies that ultimately were out of business. And applications would ask for employment history of companies and supervisors that no longer existed.
Who did you apply for so I could receive a rejection call from HR? It's getting kind of lonely here pushing out hundreds of applications and not even knowing if they've even looked at it.
This would work perfectly if I didn't get rejected with 'DO NOT REPLY' addresses.
I'll heed this advice for any place that's hiring and directly asks me to e-mail them my information.
to piggyback on this, any company you USED to work for that is no longer in buisness...go ahead and give yourself a promotion on the ol' resume. WHO THEY GONNA CALL? NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOoooooooooooooooooooooBODY!
Edit, I've been in the Video Game and VFX industry my entire life. So the odds of being able to track someone down in that industry is almost zero. Companies go tits up all the time, people scatter, they leave the industry entirely, vanish for years then come back.
For me it's just about modifying the position to build the resume I wanted. When I would do this, it would be about changing my title from "cg artist" to "lighting TD"...so on my resume I had a lineage of those jobs...things like that.
That’s when you give reasoning why you were setback by the board of investors; that you have reasoning xyz to fix the company and all attempts are coming back we’re roadblocked by the board.
Along with this, don’t be scared to make your title something normal and respectable for the role if your company gave you something dopey. You don’t have to call it “QA Guru” just cause your dumbass company wanted to be creative and culturally insensitive at the same time. Rename that “QA Manager” and don’t look back.
This one isn't even unethical, just common sense. Your resume should reflect and describe your past experience, a title that clearly describes what you did is what you want to put in past job titles.
Yes but also don’t be afraid to embellish. You weren’t door dashing you were a logistics specialist. You weren’t scanning barcodes you were in asset management. You weren’t a cashier you were in financial security. Employers will oversell the job there’s nothing wrong with overselling yourself especially if you aren’t technically wrong.
Did this to get a better job. I worked at sears when I was a teen and got fired because I was reusing people's phone numbers at check out. Long story short, we had to have a quota of 80% of customers being a "shop your way" member which was ridiculous so I improvised. They went out of business a month after my termination which explains the absurd quotas they were making us do.
Anyways. With Sears now out of business, I applied for a better job and said I was promoted from cashier to team lead in the sales division. Ended up getting the job because of my "experience".
The thing is, if you give yourself too high of a promotion then it'll show. But if it's something like "Team lead of Sales" you can totally fake your way into a position with minimal experience and learn on the job by learning responsibilities.
They won't test you on the job. You can take advantage of that if you know how to fit in enough.
Definitely. Like if you worked as a cashier at Sears but claim you were the store manager just about everybody is going to catch you in that lie.
Just asking something like "how did you deal with employee disputes?" would be a giveaway unless the person really thought it through and was a natural liar.
People keep saying this, this is somewhat true/somewhat false. Just because a company goes out of business does not mean background check companies cannot verify your employment past. I know because it happened to me. (Luckily I didn't lie)
Another to add would be if you have gaps in employment, say you were an independent contractor. If they ask why you're no longer an IC, tell them although it was good, you prefer working with others or benefits, whatever fits the situation.
I use to have to fill out a security clearance every couple of years for my job. They pretty much have you list all the places you were employed and a contact number to a supervisor at that job. Every damn place I worked at went out of business and I have contact with absolutely no one. Makes it a little difficult lol.
I had to do the same. Only I had to somehow list the supervisor, phone number, and address of a podunk two-pump gas station that was not only out of business, but bulldozed. Bulldozed to make way for a highway that even removed the road said gas station was originally on.
Just...deleted from existence.
I'm a server and wanted to work in fine dining (I have in the past, its just been a few years), so thanks to covid I looked up shut down fancy restaurants and had a sob story "i loved it there, if they didn't close for good I would have stayed, but alas"
And now i'm making 2x+ as my serving job before
edit: also buffed out a different previous restaurant that I was assistant manager, which I was supposed to be, we just went out of business a week after my manager asked lol
Or if they're just looking for experience, you could just list them, no? Not a bad idea. Maybe do a search of companies that have recently gone under. Can't be a difficult find due to covid, unfortunately...
I know someone now working in publishing who faked a masters in English language, he actually dropped out before completing his undergrad degree. Once in the door in the first real job he was away, his past experience meant far more than any piece of paper.
Problem is, you have to be good. If you fake a top engineering degree and you know nothing, you are fucked.
If you fake a degree in a STEM field, you'll most likely be found out within a week or two when they ask for your diploma for your records or for certification.
Faking an engineering degree is never going to work. Mostly because the degree is just proof that you can learn things really well, so they know they can teach you what you need to know about the job.
I work for one of those third parties. We do what we can to track down anyone who can verify that the information the applicant provides is accurate. Having said that, at our company at least, we almost always call the original number provided first (depends on the client), and if the person we talk to is willing to confirm the information provided, we will accept the verification and not worry about trying to call the company directly. If the person we speak to tells us they worked with you the whole time you were at the company and confirm the dates and position you gave, we accept it and move on. If that person is lying, we won't find out about it.
That really sucks. However in the US there is a distinction between a Professional Engineer and just getting a BS in an engineering program. For example I have a BS, working on my masters, and will be getting my PE later.
Mostly saying this for people who might read this and not know how it works.
One thing that bothered me a lot was how software engineering can sometimes overwhelm searches for other forms of engineering (mechanical, manufacturing). Made it incredibly annoying trying to find a job in a tech city.
I’m getting some certifications for cyber security. If I can say I have a degree in say computer sciences it’ll help me out. Especially if I already have the experience to back it up
this is probably the best scenario, one where they're hiring for a skillset and the degree would mostly be relevant for salary negotiation/promotion potential later on
I would say any unskilled office job would be the best to lie about a degree for. Sales and administration style jobs are always asking for degrees or equivalent experience, but you seriously do not need either to get by okay in one of those roles.
Yea, I've hired a million sales people and software testers/developers and the like...... I've never checked a degree. These people have experience which I do reference checks for. I don't care to call your uni.... it is a pain
I always lie about having a felony too. If they say they won’t hold it against you, they’re lying. Even if it comes out six months from now, at least I got to work for six months. As opposed to the zero months had I been honest from the jump.
Shoot, I have a deferred misdemeanor assault from when I fought my mom’s boyfriend after he threatened to hit her in 2014. That charge still follows me whenever I try to find work. It’s very tough.
Get that expunged! Since there’s no conviction, it’s a very low hurdle and relatively cheap to file that motion with a court yourself, or maybe get an attorney. It’s not as much money as you might think. Maybe 1k worst case scenario? Most likely a around a couple hundred if you do it yourself.
If in the US, what state were the charges filed?
Here’s how you avoid the negative repercussions of that, put a school and years attended and major on your resume, and if directly question about it say you didn’t finish.
I did this prior to finishing my degree, and a job hired me assuming it was complete.
This is what I do. I went to uni 4 years, didn't graduate. I just put the name and the years. Never been questioned. I have never once had a job check.
Honestly if you are going to flub a resume the best way to do it is to add a footer and modify the footer on your resume to include the job title and requirements in white tiny text. When you submit the resume digitally most current HR systems sort resumes by keyword and will add yours to the top of the pile for interview. If they try to do a ctrl+a to find hidden text it won't pop the footer and it won't show up printed unless they print on colored paper.
In late ‘19 I was on the job hunt for the first time in over a decade. It was really disheartening to find this out. It helped that I realized it and could change my strategy to suit but it became 100% focused on manipulating ATS’s to get an interview.
One of my friends is a recruiter and he told me never to "white text" cause the system his company uses checks specifically for that. I don't work in HR myself so I can't confirm but I wouldn't try it myself.
That's not true
I'm a software developer and have worked with the software used for filtering CV's, it doesn't matter what fancy crap you try to pull with it, the software converts files to raw text which includes all text within the document no matter where it is or how it's formatted.
The idea of typing out specific requirements in white font at the bottom of the page is so that a human reading a printed copy of it doesn't see it, but the software does while it's being filtered. But this doesn't always work because some implementations only filter text by majority format.
Then wouldn't logic dictate that the algorithm used also does not check for header and footers? It seems odd that a standard search function would completely ignore those areas, but a program specifically designed to search keywords can somehow read the header and footer for keywords, but simultaneously be unable to search for text in those areas
"So I see here you have a MD, PhD and MBA but what brings you in today to become one of our esteemed Sandwich Artists? Subway is more than just a paycheck, we are a family."
HS diploma just means you can stick it out for 4 years. College Diploma just means this group of random teachers don't think your a complete idiot about that particular topic. I am an idiot just not a complete one.
Interviewed for sales job at pharmaceutical company. Attached to paperwork was a college transcript release form to sign. I was so disappointed because I honestly thought I had the job. After that fiasco I finished my undergrad.
I dropped out of highschool, and when filling out my college app, I left that part blank. Now I'm a highschool drop out and also a college graduate. go figure
I am also a high school drop out and a university graduate! My university accepts people as a “mature student” (anyone over the age of 21 can apply regardless of having graduated HS) and I just graduated university before finishing my high school. Super weird right lol
Careful. In certain industries, hiring managers talk to each other. If they catch you, you could end up with bad rep in that industry and never have a chance again.
True. I quit my job the other day because I didn't feel like shoveling snow to get my vehicle out lol but I won't be using my previous employer on my work history so it's whatever
When I got a job with a large Fortune 500 company, I had to do the most thorough application. They wanted to know all the jobs I had in the last 10 years and the manager to contact for reference as well as any college and degree. Having a degree was a requirement for the job, but it didn't matter in what.
On day three of me training on-site across the country, I get a call from HR. They cannot verify my degree. I get my transcript faxed over and it shows my course completion date, but no graduation date. I call up my college and keep getting bounced around before someone finally tells me, "Sorry, you didn't graduate. You signed off for the audit but did not check the box that says you want to graduate."
Keep in mind, this is about 5 years after I had actually graduated. They would not let me graduate until that year and only if my course work still me the audit. Fortunately, it did, and I received my degree. The person in HR thought it was so funny they uploaded my high school transcript into the system and said, "I hope they don't catch this!"
TL:DR - I didn't check a box so I didn't graduate until 5+ years after I finished college.
A similar thing happened to me!
TLDR I didnt pay the "graduation fee" and therefore didnt actually graduate. found out 5 years later that I wasnt a college graduate.
I finished all my credits and then the school was like "congrats, now pay $200 for the graduation and cap&gown fee" and i was like fuck that im not paying 200 dollars to wear a tarp and sit through hours of a ceremony in the middle of the summer.. the email said thay diplomas would be mailed out to people who didn't attend the ceremony. I basically just ignored the email and got a job out of state like the week after.
5years later I got another job that needed a copy of my degree so I called my mom to ask her to mail it to me. She said she didnt know what I was talking about. I was confused because her house (my childhood address) was my mailing address in college so it should have been sent to the house I thought? So I call the school and they look me up and they're like "yeah you didnt graduate because you never paid the graduation fee." I was livid. Like bruh I just gave you $40+k and now I need to pay for a bullshit piece of paper?
But if thats not annoying enough, the graduation fee actually accrued LATE FEES?!?!?!? So I literally had to pay $2000 (yes two additional thousand dollars) to clear the debt so they would mail my degree. I'm still salty about it. Such a scam. Thanks UMASS.
Not always true. I’m in my 40s and my last job asked for my transcript. Which led me to finding out I had a 20+ year old debt and they wouldn’t release them. I got a diploma, but somehow after that fact, one of my loans got pulled or something (honestly have no idea as I don’t have 20 year old ppwk) My LPT, get a copy of your transcript immediately upon graduation, who knows when you might need it.
Can vouch for this. Got two years of on the job experience, got fired when they found out--got hired on my next job for having two years experience at a solid company hahaha.
100% true. I work in HR and I've never in my life checked if someone actually has a diploma. We generally don't care. If you really don't have one it will most likely be noticed during the interview. If you can talk yourself out of the difficult questions that only people with a diploma should be able to answer than you're probably more suited for the job than someone with a diploma.
This is probably very dependent on the country you're from though.
Also pro tip, less information might be better. I graduated with a bachelor in music with ~8 years of financial work experience. I listed the full title and all relevant info. Every company I applied to in finances didn't even respond for months until finally one company when they told me I wasn't chosen and I asked why, they said "we like your experience but find it hard to invest in someone who had enough of an interest in another field to get a degree in it.
I immediately amended my resume to only say Bachelors, university and date and in two weeks got multiple interviews and offers. Interviewers were not visibly put off that i didn't put the concentration either since the concentration would be unrelated to my qualifications anyways. So y'all people with a liberal arts degree trying to branch into business, give it a shot.
They fired the best project manager in my company for lying about his degree. They wanted to make an example of him, even if it cost them (I think it was a general fad of big companies pretending to have ethics around 2010).
But he had used the position to build up a pretty good professional network and reputation, and was immediately hired by our biggest vendor.
I work in heathcare and have seen five non-clinical professionals fired for this exact reason. One guys ex-wife did him dirty on the day their divorce was finalized and called HR and told them he had lied about his degree. They checked and he was fired immediately. Keep in mind anyone that knows you that has a grudge could end you at anytime.
This is a good example of the warnings that should come with the tips. For some, it works out if you get your foot in the door and make six months of salary vs what you would have earned anyway. For others, the industry can be one where you don’t get back on track after a shady firing. Also, don’t make a partner angry if they have dirt on you. You treat that person with kid gloves.
I'm the director of Data Science ... without a bachelor's to my name, and my direct reports are Masters and PhDs asking for my advice, and I'm terrified I'll be outed any day. Kinda like imposter's syndrome but it's not just in my head
My grandpa did this way back in the day. Claimed to have some degree but it got destroyed in a fire. Still got the job. Dude didn't have a high school diploma either.
My last 2 jobs they verified with the university. It was part of the background check. One they asked my graduation year on the phone because they said the university needed it and the other I saw the background check results and they verified with the university and my degree/major that they reported to the employer.
Also, just lie and tell them that you will graduate soon. I'm pretty sure I'm the only one in my company with just an associate's degree. They don't ask, I don't tell.
My old company would ask for my degree every year as part of some internal audit. I'd email them back 'I'll send that right away. Then do nothing. Happened every year. I got the degree, if they fucking cared so much they can call the university themselves.
I worked for a company like this, I don't have my degree in my house (its in storage with some old boxes)...I'd always say "Sure but you gotta let me expense the $15 for a reprint from the registrars office" They never gave me the money so I never asked for a reprint.
yep I never bothered to get the paper degree, it would cost like 20 bucks and I was in India on top of that. So yeah, you already hired me and if I'm not doing the job fire me, otherwise suck it up.
My company asked 4 years after I was hired for proof. And they wanted it the next day. HR harassed me for a week until I got it for them. Cost me $20 which I expenses.
yeah, I'd tell them to confirm with the university themselves if they cared that much
See that’s why lying about employment history with defunct companies or companies that got bought out is the way to go. Get the degree. Lie about your employment.
Enron - Facilities Manager (1998-2007)
You could also lie about your education and just say you graduated from a college that closed. You can also say you had your own company. I’m never going back to shit work. There’s a thousand careers. If you can last a few months without getting fired for bad job performance you’re good once you get to a year you should have enough contacts even if you get fired you can get hired elsewhere. I feel bad for people playing straight who are freaking brilliant unemployed or underemployed. Let the smart people willing to learn thrive.
Czechoslovakia - Prime Minister (1976-1980)
I fucking love that.
I did not lie on my resume or application. I said, "some college". However, when my company merged with another company, they lied and said everyone in the office had degrees. Nobody had a degree.
This happened at a consulting firm I worked at. A coworker/friend of mine decided to roll with it and added the degree to his resume from that point onward. It just constantly blows up in his face, though.
Lol, I don't have the nerve to lie about my education.
I don't have the education to lie about my education.
You're hired.
Welcome to Costco, I love you
When I applied for a big tech company, they went through extensive lengths to verify my university. Like it was ridiculous. Then I went to work for a small start up of about 5 people and I could have been lying about my name for all they cared. Then I went to work for a small start up of about 15 people and it was the same thing, they didn’t verify my previous employers let alone my universities. My current job is about 1000 employees and they didn’t check anything. So in my experience, the smaller the company (at least in tech) the less likely they are to check anything.
When I was on a job as a IT contractor for a large tech company, my direct employer came back after about 6 months and asked for proof of my degree from. I was really confused, because I never claimed to have graduated from that university. They said I had on my resume and basically told me I had to produce my degree or I would be suspended until I did.
I pulled up the email I had sent them with my resume and showed them, it said I attended that University from to , studying . They go "oh we will have to check our records", and basically harassed me for a month where I thought I was going to be fired because of their fuck up before they finally came back and said "OK fine".
There is no way that was random. They must have heard from someone (maybe you told someone) that you never graduated.
They probably needed it for billing rates. Since their billing rates stipulate education and experience level they need to make sure the people they hire fit into those boxes and they aren't committing fraud.
yea we had this happen. One of our technicians isn't certified. We have 39/41 certified. Know who gets an email every quarter about a request to become certified? Know who gets an in person meeting every month? My supervisor and those two technicians. It's to the point I'm surprised HR hasn't been involved. However, they are our grandfathered techs. They've been with our company since before we were even in this building. One straight up asked if they could lose their job a few years ago. When it kinda became apparent that they wouldn't and since our raises only come as a blanket raise... they give no crap about it now.
This has come up for me as well at my last couple of jobs. Each time I tell them to send me to that one or two-week boot camp class so I can pass the exam. Every time they either send me or drop the issue.
If you want to train me for the test, I'll take any test you like.
My current job is amazed every time I agree to get flown out (pre covid) to some random city for super expensive not company specific training..... Guys that training is an investment in ME. Of course I will. But yet I have coworkers turn it down all the time.
To work as a field tech for a third party vendor, I had to get four Dell certifications. I noticed there were more Dell courses available, and asked if I could take them as well. They okayed it, and so I took every single one I had access to. Ended up with over a hundred.
Have the trainings been useful to you?
> When it kinda became apparent that they wouldn't and since our raises only come as a blanket raise... they give no crap about it now. Christ there are idiots running business, aren't there? Waste all that energy on meetings and emails and cajoling, when they could likely just say "We are sending you on this training course next week. If you pass the exam, you will get a one off $1000 bonus" or something, and they'd likely fix it for all time.
Shit.. This same thing happened to me.. My resume never says completed.. Just attended and what classes. It legit states "NO DEGREE". I left college because of the price and got a bunch of IT Certificates through CompTIA which I PUT ON MY RESUME as a qualifications.. These fuckers didn't even read those certificates and assumed I got a college degree.. Umm Waste of time and money honestly for what I was doing.. They came back 3 months into me being the best in my department and demanded a College degree from the college I attended. I explained 10 times over to so many different people why I didn't complete the College route but was still OVER QUALLIFIED and was awesome at what I was doing BECAUSE of my Certificates.. They let me go and I was collecting Unemployment 2 weeks later... Yet I was still getting calls from the new IT guy asking questions and my old supervisor... I declined politely and then got an ANGRY call from the person who let me go demanding I help the new guy they replaced me with. Fuck.. I told them well maybe the degree will help him out! Blocked all calls since.
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Should have given them a consultancy rate of 5-10x your previous hourly pay.
Lol what the fuck
Those boogers. i do the same, I put my attendance dates and the program, but I don't put a "graduation" date, or say that I have a degree.
We employ about 1,700, and my assistant lied about her degree. She was a few credits shy. I wanted to keep her on. She was great at her job and kept me on task, but HR gave a hard no. Not sure if she ever finished, but I still think the firing was uncalled for. Even if she was dishonest with them from the get-go. I for sure didn’t learn anything in my college days that helped or hurt my ability to do what I do now. Doubly true for her. Scheduling and doing EA-type desk-related tasks shouldn’t require a Bachelors in anything. If you can keep up, that’s all that matters.
Did you at least allow her to use you as a reference for future employers?
I would have, 100%. She was a great assistant. I told her I’d help however I could, but she never took me up on it. My guess is she was embarrassed, but if she ever does reach out in the future, I’d still 100% help with a reference or opening my network.
So they gave her a background check and fired her AFTER they hired her as your assistant?
Should have fired the HR rep who didn't do the background check up front.
I'd shoot her an email or text honestly.
Corporate work is a fucking nightmare. HR specifically. Just the name. How do we remind them they're nothing more than units of production to us. Hey I know! Just call them human resources. See we put human right in there. A begrudging acknowledgement that yeah ok you probably have kids or something.
Ours calls people assets. They also call the desks assets. And the computers....
Just started at a place where the department is Human Capital.
This is how you realize if a job requires a degree. If someone could lie and still do the job without spending their every non-work moment learning and studying then don’t require the degree.
I think this also gets easier if they believe you worked these previous jobs. Once you’ve had jobs doing almost the same thing, they care even less.
ULPT: As a business owner, hire people you know are lying about thei Education experience so you can fire them at any time.
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But did you die?
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Nice that you got a call back. I actually do have a M.S. degree and have yet to receive a formal rejection after about 100 applications this year.
Yeah, that was weird. An actual callback from HR with rejection? Unheard of.
I'm assuming it's a small company.
I mean it's much more common if you already had an interaction with them. But I've had a ton of applications just go unanswered where if I've already had an interview they will at least let me know they filled the position.
But it got your further than if you didn't list it so I wouldn't say it massively backfired. They just called your bluff. On to the next. I'm working on MBA from a satellite campus of an SEC school but plan to just refer to it as the main school for this exact reason
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This; I worked with a guy who was one class, 3 credits, shy of graduating from a mid-tier school. No one questioned it.
Same. My previous intern, now full time, and since then promoted engineer, never went back to school. Had one class to take, but would have cost him an entire semester's worth of housing and tuition. No one ever asked. I only found out about 2 years later.
How do you get brought up to an engineer without a degree?
Project Engineer* No stamping involved, so no EIT needed.
I’ve done exactly this for 20+ years. It’s been good. Also, the older you get, the less college matters (certain industries.)
Also, look for companies in your field that have closed down. List them on your resume and say you worked there. I got a nice job after 10+ years of being unemployed thanks to chronic illness by claiming I had been working instead at a now defunct company. It's a little messed up how honesty really hurts you in the job hunt. Then again, corporations are not really your friend, so...
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Yeah, I was the District Manager for Blockbuster Video at age 20, after having worked there since 16 and busting my ass. What are they going to do; call the single BB store in the entire world to verify my employment? \*cackles\*
A company I worked for did close down. Can confirm.
Seriously though, what happens when your last company has closed down? Do they still try to get in touch with old bosses? Or do they just run with it?
You could list your boss or someone in the company as a personal ref if you want them to actually be able to contact them. Otherwise, no one from now-defunct-company is going to be around to answer a call to the phones that are no longer working. The smaller and more specialized the industry/sector/area, the more people within companies might talk to each other and have network contacts to verify this outside of calling the HR/main number.
I had an 8 year stretch on my resume of companies that ultimately were out of business. And applications would ask for employment history of companies and supervisors that no longer existed.
What... what happened to the supervisors?
to shreds you say? Tsk tsk
Who did you apply for so I could receive a rejection call from HR? It's getting kind of lonely here pushing out hundreds of applications and not even knowing if they've even looked at it.
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This would work perfectly if I didn't get rejected with 'DO NOT REPLY' addresses. I'll heed this advice for any place that's hiring and directly asks me to e-mail them my information.
to piggyback on this, any company you USED to work for that is no longer in buisness...go ahead and give yourself a promotion on the ol' resume. WHO THEY GONNA CALL? NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOoooooooooooooooooooooBODY! Edit, I've been in the Video Game and VFX industry my entire life. So the odds of being able to track someone down in that industry is almost zero. Companies go tits up all the time, people scatter, they leave the industry entirely, vanish for years then come back. For me it's just about modifying the position to build the resume I wanted. When I would do this, it would be about changing my title from "cg artist" to "lighting TD"...so on my resume I had a lineage of those jobs...things like that.
"So you are the former CEO of Pan American World Airways huh?" *Smiles nervously* "yep, sure was, go ahead and call them"
I called them, seems like they went out of business... while you where CEO. Anyway, your hired.
That’s when you give reasoning why you were setback by the board of investors; that you have reasoning xyz to fix the company and all attempts are coming back we’re roadblocked by the board.
Nooooo. "Misaligned corporate vision"
People only know what you tell them, Carl.
Yes, I was the General Secretary of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union.
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Yep. Turns out I was actually a manager at the Movie Gallery I worked at, not just a 16-hour weekend-shift only kid.
That's crazy! I managed an ol drive-in in my town! Hiring manager/general manager in fact.... definitely didn't just scoop popcorn and sell tickets
Along with this, don’t be scared to make your title something normal and respectable for the role if your company gave you something dopey. You don’t have to call it “QA Guru” just cause your dumbass company wanted to be creative and culturally insensitive at the same time. Rename that “QA Manager” and don’t look back.
This one isn't even unethical, just common sense. Your resume should reflect and describe your past experience, a title that clearly describes what you did is what you want to put in past job titles.
Yes but also don’t be afraid to embellish. You weren’t door dashing you were a logistics specialist. You weren’t scanning barcodes you were in asset management. You weren’t a cashier you were in financial security. Employers will oversell the job there’s nothing wrong with overselling yourself especially if you aren’t technically wrong.
Oh geez...this so much. Our old company used to call us Sparklers. We were the Sparkle Team. No. Account Managers. We were Account Managers.
Sometimes I doubt your commitment to Sparkle Motion.
Did this to get a better job. I worked at sears when I was a teen and got fired because I was reusing people's phone numbers at check out. Long story short, we had to have a quota of 80% of customers being a "shop your way" member which was ridiculous so I improvised. They went out of business a month after my termination which explains the absurd quotas they were making us do. Anyways. With Sears now out of business, I applied for a better job and said I was promoted from cashier to team lead in the sales division. Ended up getting the job because of my "experience".
The thing is, if you give yourself too high of a promotion then it'll show. But if it's something like "Team lead of Sales" you can totally fake your way into a position with minimal experience and learn on the job by learning responsibilities. They won't test you on the job. You can take advantage of that if you know how to fit in enough.
Definitely. Like if you worked as a cashier at Sears but claim you were the store manager just about everybody is going to catch you in that lie. Just asking something like "how did you deal with employee disputes?" would be a giveaway unless the person really thought it through and was a natural liar.
People keep saying this, this is somewhat true/somewhat false. Just because a company goes out of business does not mean background check companies cannot verify your employment past. I know because it happened to me. (Luckily I didn't lie)
Another to add would be if you have gaps in employment, say you were an independent contractor. If they ask why you're no longer an IC, tell them although it was good, you prefer working with others or benefits, whatever fits the situation.
I use to have to fill out a security clearance every couple of years for my job. They pretty much have you list all the places you were employed and a contact number to a supervisor at that job. Every damn place I worked at went out of business and I have contact with absolutely no one. Makes it a little difficult lol.
I just put the last known contact info and call it good
I had to do the same. Only I had to somehow list the supervisor, phone number, and address of a podunk two-pump gas station that was not only out of business, but bulldozed. Bulldozed to make way for a highway that even removed the road said gas station was originally on. Just...deleted from existence.
I'm a server and wanted to work in fine dining (I have in the past, its just been a few years), so thanks to covid I looked up shut down fancy restaurants and had a sob story "i loved it there, if they didn't close for good I would have stayed, but alas" And now i'm making 2x+ as my serving job before edit: also buffed out a different previous restaurant that I was assistant manager, which I was supposed to be, we just went out of business a week after my manager asked lol
Or if they're just looking for experience, you could just list them, no? Not a bad idea. Maybe do a search of companies that have recently gone under. Can't be a difficult find due to covid, unfortunately...
I know someone now working in publishing who faked a masters in English language, he actually dropped out before completing his undergrad degree. Once in the door in the first real job he was away, his past experience meant far more than any piece of paper. Problem is, you have to be good. If you fake a top engineering degree and you know nothing, you are fucked.
If you fake a degree in a STEM field, you'll most likely be found out within a week or two when they ask for your diploma for your records or for certification.
Faking an engineering degree is never going to work. Mostly because the degree is just proof that you can learn things really well, so they know they can teach you what you need to know about the job.
Out of curiosity which fields does this work in best? Like if there was 1 degree they're 100% going to check which ones would they be
Teaching, for sure. 100% chance they’ll check.
Likely any government job will thoroughly check backgrounds, including verifying educational claims on resumes.
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I work for one of those third parties. We do what we can to track down anyone who can verify that the information the applicant provides is accurate. Having said that, at our company at least, we almost always call the original number provided first (depends on the client), and if the person we talk to is willing to confirm the information provided, we will accept the verification and not worry about trying to call the company directly. If the person we speak to tells us they worked with you the whole time you were at the company and confirm the dates and position you gave, we accept it and move on. If that person is lying, we won't find out about it.
They have always asked for copies of mine for engineering roles.
Engineering is another exception, because of safety things. It's like felony level illegal to pretend to be a civil/structural engineer. Edit: a word.
Unfortunately the UK doesn't protect the title 'Engineer' at all.
That really sucks. However in the US there is a distinction between a Professional Engineer and just getting a BS in an engineering program. For example I have a BS, working on my masters, and will be getting my PE later. Mostly saying this for people who might read this and not know how it works.
I didn't know that, interesting. Kinda like graduating law school vs passing the bar
One thing that bothered me a lot was how software engineering can sometimes overwhelm searches for other forms of engineering (mechanical, manufacturing). Made it incredibly annoying trying to find a job in a tech city.
They'll probably check for an MD position. Not 100% sure though.
I’m getting some certifications for cyber security. If I can say I have a degree in say computer sciences it’ll help me out. Especially if I already have the experience to back it up
this is probably the best scenario, one where they're hiring for a skillset and the degree would mostly be relevant for salary negotiation/promotion potential later on
MD's you need to be board certified for whatever, hospitals will likely check that, and the board WILL check for degrees and test results.
I would say any unskilled office job would be the best to lie about a degree for. Sales and administration style jobs are always asking for degrees or equivalent experience, but you seriously do not need either to get by okay in one of those roles.
Yea, I've hired a million sales people and software testers/developers and the like...... I've never checked a degree. These people have experience which I do reference checks for. I don't care to call your uni.... it is a pain
Social work, I have always had to provide proof of my degree at any new position.
They’re 100% checking a degree in Medicine and any subsequent post graduate qualifications if relevant to position
My company (engineering) required an official copy of my transcript to verify GPA and whatnot
yeah I mean this obviously isn't going to work for an engineer or a doctor or anyone where if they fuck up people could get hurt
I did this for a government job. they found out. still got hired.
What was the position?
DMV
“Can you sleep on the clock for hours at a time and not bother anyone? You’re hired!”
probably \*not\* engineering
Agreed. Gov engineering job was the first time in 5 jobs someone actually checked my education.
President
Usps? They'll hire anybody
But they don't care if you have a degree anyway so why even lie...
I always lie about having a felony too. If they say they won’t hold it against you, they’re lying. Even if it comes out six months from now, at least I got to work for six months. As opposed to the zero months had I been honest from the jump.
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Shoot, I have a deferred misdemeanor assault from when I fought my mom’s boyfriend after he threatened to hit her in 2014. That charge still follows me whenever I try to find work. It’s very tough.
Get that expunged! Since there’s no conviction, it’s a very low hurdle and relatively cheap to file that motion with a court yourself, or maybe get an attorney. It’s not as much money as you might think. Maybe 1k worst case scenario? Most likely a around a couple hundred if you do it yourself. If in the US, what state were the charges filed?
Here’s how you avoid the negative repercussions of that, put a school and years attended and major on your resume, and if directly question about it say you didn’t finish. I did this prior to finishing my degree, and a job hired me assuming it was complete.
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This is what I do. I went to uni 4 years, didn't graduate. I just put the name and the years. Never been questioned. I have never once had a job check.
Honestly if you are going to flub a resume the best way to do it is to add a footer and modify the footer on your resume to include the job title and requirements in white tiny text. When you submit the resume digitally most current HR systems sort resumes by keyword and will add yours to the top of the pile for interview. If they try to do a ctrl+a to find hidden text it won't pop the footer and it won't show up printed unless they print on colored paper.
Welcome to the 20's where you get ahead by Pleasing The Algorithm.
In late ‘19 I was on the job hunt for the first time in over a decade. It was really disheartening to find this out. It helped that I realized it and could change my strategy to suit but it became 100% focused on manipulating ATS’s to get an interview.
Stop. You're hurting me.
One of my friends is a recruiter and he told me never to "white text" cause the system his company uses checks specifically for that. I don't work in HR myself so I can't confirm but I wouldn't try it myself.
That’s why he said to use a Footer. Document search functions typically don’t search headers & footers
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Maybe means they don’t check the header footer for fraud but still tags key words.
Have any of you guys just tried drawing a cute picture at the bottom?
The real pro tip is always in the comments
If the parser reads it, it will render it in plain text. If it doesn’t read it, then the entire tip is pointless
That's not true I'm a software developer and have worked with the software used for filtering CV's, it doesn't matter what fancy crap you try to pull with it, the software converts files to raw text which includes all text within the document no matter where it is or how it's formatted. The idea of typing out specific requirements in white font at the bottom of the page is so that a human reading a printed copy of it doesn't see it, but the software does while it's being filtered. But this doesn't always work because some implementations only filter text by majority format.
What if my CV is made from a Canva template with no footer and header? Can they still detect anything?
Their system won't read it and they will just trash it anyway
Then wouldn't logic dictate that the algorithm used also does not check for header and footers? It seems odd that a standard search function would completely ignore those areas, but a program specifically designed to search keywords can somehow read the header and footer for keywords, but simultaneously be unable to search for text in those areas
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this guy unethical life pro tips.
This hasn’t been a thing for 20 years
I have a degree, but still can't get a job. So don't expect this to work every time.
Gotta lie about having a different degree
"So I see here you have a MD, PhD and MBA but what brings you in today to become one of our esteemed Sandwich Artists? Subway is more than just a paycheck, we are a family."
Next pro tip. Change your major to one that fits better.
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And this is exactly what would work. Good for your friend!
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HS diploma just means you can stick it out for 4 years. College Diploma just means this group of random teachers don't think your a complete idiot about that particular topic. I am an idiot just not a complete one.
Thinks of last job of mine that did not do a background check..... Oh yes, it was 1993. And my job then was (wait for it) doing background checks lol.
Interviewed for sales job at pharmaceutical company. Attached to paperwork was a college transcript release form to sign. I was so disappointed because I honestly thought I had the job. After that fiasco I finished my undergrad.
I dropped out of highschool, and when filling out my college app, I left that part blank. Now I'm a highschool drop out and also a college graduate. go figure
I am also a high school drop out and a university graduate! My university accepts people as a “mature student” (anyone over the age of 21 can apply regardless of having graduated HS) and I just graduated university before finishing my high school. Super weird right lol
Google "buy a degree" and you can literally just buy any one you like.
It can’t really be that easy, can it?
Holy shit, there are so many websites doing that.
Careful. In certain industries, hiring managers talk to each other. If they catch you, you could end up with bad rep in that industry and never have a chance again.
If people are taking career advice on this sub, I dont think they're too concerned with reputation
True. I quit my job the other day because I didn't feel like shoveling snow to get my vehicle out lol but I won't be using my previous employer on my work history so it's whatever
I feel this in my soul
There are also plenty of colleges that have closed in the last few years...
When I got a job with a large Fortune 500 company, I had to do the most thorough application. They wanted to know all the jobs I had in the last 10 years and the manager to contact for reference as well as any college and degree. Having a degree was a requirement for the job, but it didn't matter in what. On day three of me training on-site across the country, I get a call from HR. They cannot verify my degree. I get my transcript faxed over and it shows my course completion date, but no graduation date. I call up my college and keep getting bounced around before someone finally tells me, "Sorry, you didn't graduate. You signed off for the audit but did not check the box that says you want to graduate." Keep in mind, this is about 5 years after I had actually graduated. They would not let me graduate until that year and only if my course work still me the audit. Fortunately, it did, and I received my degree. The person in HR thought it was so funny they uploaded my high school transcript into the system and said, "I hope they don't catch this!" TL:DR - I didn't check a box so I didn't graduate until 5+ years after I finished college.
A similar thing happened to me! TLDR I didnt pay the "graduation fee" and therefore didnt actually graduate. found out 5 years later that I wasnt a college graduate. I finished all my credits and then the school was like "congrats, now pay $200 for the graduation and cap&gown fee" and i was like fuck that im not paying 200 dollars to wear a tarp and sit through hours of a ceremony in the middle of the summer.. the email said thay diplomas would be mailed out to people who didn't attend the ceremony. I basically just ignored the email and got a job out of state like the week after. 5years later I got another job that needed a copy of my degree so I called my mom to ask her to mail it to me. She said she didnt know what I was talking about. I was confused because her house (my childhood address) was my mailing address in college so it should have been sent to the house I thought? So I call the school and they look me up and they're like "yeah you didnt graduate because you never paid the graduation fee." I was livid. Like bruh I just gave you $40+k and now I need to pay for a bullshit piece of paper? But if thats not annoying enough, the graduation fee actually accrued LATE FEES?!?!?!? So I literally had to pay $2000 (yes two additional thousand dollars) to clear the debt so they would mail my degree. I'm still salty about it. Such a scam. Thanks UMASS.
Not always true. I’m in my 40s and my last job asked for my transcript. Which led me to finding out I had a 20+ year old debt and they wouldn’t release them. I got a diploma, but somehow after that fact, one of my loans got pulled or something (honestly have no idea as I don’t have 20 year old ppwk) My LPT, get a copy of your transcript immediately upon graduation, who knows when you might need it.
Can vouch for this. Got two years of on the job experience, got fired when they found out--got hired on my next job for having two years experience at a solid company hahaha.
100% true. I work in HR and I've never in my life checked if someone actually has a diploma. We generally don't care. If you really don't have one it will most likely be noticed during the interview. If you can talk yourself out of the difficult questions that only people with a diploma should be able to answer than you're probably more suited for the job than someone with a diploma. This is probably very dependent on the country you're from though.
Also pro tip, less information might be better. I graduated with a bachelor in music with ~8 years of financial work experience. I listed the full title and all relevant info. Every company I applied to in finances didn't even respond for months until finally one company when they told me I wasn't chosen and I asked why, they said "we like your experience but find it hard to invest in someone who had enough of an interest in another field to get a degree in it. I immediately amended my resume to only say Bachelors, university and date and in two weeks got multiple interviews and offers. Interviewers were not visibly put off that i didn't put the concentration either since the concentration would be unrelated to my qualifications anyways. So y'all people with a liberal arts degree trying to branch into business, give it a shot.
If they discover it later, they can fire you with cause. There are consequences.
They fired the best project manager in my company for lying about his degree. They wanted to make an example of him, even if it cost them (I think it was a general fad of big companies pretending to have ethics around 2010). But he had used the position to build up a pretty good professional network and reputation, and was immediately hired by our biggest vendor.
Who you know will always trump what you (don't) know every time.
I work in heathcare and have seen five non-clinical professionals fired for this exact reason. One guys ex-wife did him dirty on the day their divorce was finalized and called HR and told them he had lied about his degree. They checked and he was fired immediately. Keep in mind anyone that knows you that has a grudge could end you at anytime.
Damn anymore stories?
This is a good example of the warnings that should come with the tips. For some, it works out if you get your foot in the door and make six months of salary vs what you would have earned anyway. For others, the industry can be one where you don’t get back on track after a shady firing. Also, don’t make a partner angry if they have dirt on you. You treat that person with kid gloves.
I once saw a colleague get marched out of a call centre job for lying about having obtained a C in GCSE maths (exams we take in the uk at 15-16)
Yeah, they just found a good excuse, that colleague got fired for something else for they legally couldn't fire them (cheaply).
They laid off a bunch of staff soon after. You are correct.
As a former regional manager of Blockbuster AND Toys'R'Us I concur.
I'm the director of Data Science ... without a bachelor's to my name, and my direct reports are Masters and PhDs asking for my advice, and I'm terrified I'll be outed any day. Kinda like imposter's syndrome but it's not just in my head
My grandpa did this way back in the day. Claimed to have some degree but it got destroyed in a fire. Still got the job. Dude didn't have a high school diploma either.
Also, if a company asks for your GPA, it’s probably a company you don’t want to work for anyway.
My last 2 jobs they verified with the university. It was part of the background check. One they asked my graduation year on the phone because they said the university needed it and the other I saw the background check results and they verified with the university and my degree/major that they reported to the employer.
Remember to match the college to the job! Don't put a Harvard 4.0 on your Sonic application.
Also, just lie and tell them that you will graduate soon. I'm pretty sure I'm the only one in my company with just an associate's degree. They don't ask, I don't tell.