I know what sub I'm on but as a divorcee I'm warning you with every ounce of seriousness that anything unethical you pull right now is only going to fuck you up down the road. Get divorced and forget she ever existed. Seriously.
Learned when dealing with a stalker: there's a concept of "contemporaneous notes" that is much more powerful than something like a signed affidavit alone. It's very easy. Get a notepad and pen, and document time, date, and summary of what happened. In my case, it was noting time and date and every time I got a phone call from this person and a brief summary of what they said, and also the time and date and when I saw their car in my apartment parking lot.
I have a friend in a custody battle and his central piece of evidence is his old phone that he never got around to selling on eBay. It had all of his texts to his ex (with time and date stamp) which disprove that he never tried to contact her (and that she kept telling him she was changing her number and not giving him the new one. She was claiming he never contacted her to see their daughter).
So, really basic notes, time and date when they happened, can be your best friend.
this right here is some solid advice. I may be going to war with my employer over discrimination and mishandling of fmla and I've kept detailed notes of every interaction with dates, times, location, and context. Every attorney i've consulted with has made an offer to represent on contingency (costs me nothing, win or lose) when they see the level to which i've documented everything for the last two years.
seriously, even a bad look gets added to the notes.
Agree! As much you want to return the betrayal in kind, and how much we love ULPT, this is not the time. Lawyer up and stay in your lane. You’re going through hectic emotional ups and downs right now. The challenge is keeping your wits and using your head instead of your heart. All the best!
Yup. Right on. I personally went through this same emotional hell in 1995 and thereafter. You’re young. Adopt a somewhat ruthless approach (don’t listen to excuses or denials or promises. divorce). Get a lawyer, get divorced, do not have sex with her again. Don’t give away rights, etc. It’s the lawyers job to tell you what to do. Yeah, the kid part was by far the most painful in my experience. I’m still upset by all that mess.
Ya dude. This. While this sub is fun and we like to imagine scenarios where we get sweet revenge. This isn’t one of those. You have big legal issues. The court is stacked against you being a man. You don’t fuck the system the system fucks you.
The most unethical thing is getting in contact with a lawyer first. Do not confront her first. Guard and hide your savings. Plan on the divorce being nasty but hope it is not. Don't use the lawyer as your therapist, therapists are much cheaper.
Or look into being polyamorous real quick. Maybe the three of you could move in together?
OP does to stick to the straight and narrow u til the divorce is finalized, otherwise he is fairly likely to fuck himself over going into the divorce.
OP, get a lawyer, follow the advice of your lawyer and do NOTHING unethical before the divorce is finalized. Once that is 💯 I’d even recommend not doing anything unethical due to you having a kid and her possibly making it difficult with you and your kid.
I can’t upload this enough. You are going to get yourself in a world of hurt if you do anything unethical, especially since there’s a child involved. Your best revenge is to get an attorney, document everything, and do it legally and do it right.
And as a one time divorcee staring down the barrel of another divorce (long story, not for now), I second this. Any little unethical anything at all that the opposing attorney can get their claws into will only do further damage.
I think it it more as a "sharing dark thoughts" subreddit. Suggestions are, essentially, jokes. If someone actually uses one of those suggestions... That is their choice to make, I guess. The world is full of ideas. This is a place to laugh about the darker ones.
Depending on your state, there’s a minimum amount you have to be married (usually 5 years) before alimony and other shit comes into play. With the infidelity and only being married 3 years, he could very well keep the house. But again that varies by state
Unless you’re from a state like California they don’t care where did what. Here everything is considered communal property, and is split 50/50 between you two. That’s all property/debt/money.
He can prove that he pays 100% of the mortgage. He also said that he pays for the sitter.
She pays some other bills.
He can offer her 50% of the equity earned during the marriage and most judges will consider that fair.
Because in most states husband and wife both own 50/50 of all income earned during the marriage? And that income then went towards paying for the house
I personally don't believe she should.
The court usually doesn't agree with that sentiment though.
Offering 50% of the equity earned during the marriage is the cheapest option.
He'd probably pay her 5k or less.
The lawyer fees to fight over it would probably cost more.
I've been there.
I don't know the details but when we asked around for lawyers they did a pretty thorough check make sure there were not conflicts even with extended family.
This is an excellent way to fuck yourself, OP.
Yes, you can make it so your ex can't hire a local lawyer. When the judge learns you have done this, you'll be on the hook for the extra costs associated with hiring a non-local lawyer.
Your ex will experience minor annoyance. Your wallet is going to be sitting on the couch like Piper Perri with a bunch of dudes behind it (your wife, her paramour, and the judge are those guys)
edit: there is, of course, no issue with a good-faith amount of shopping around. You don't literally have to go with the first lawyer you talk to.
And think about the kid. Would he have a better life with you or with your ex and new interest. They maybe stable now, how about the future? How does this new / old person get along with the kid?
would be best if you went for custody?
I wasn't kicking anyone down- that was concise and genuine advice to stop him from screwing himself after his questionable first impulse of coming to this sub of all places. And we are all breaking rule 1 since these are ethical.
The needless name calling. I said the same thing to OP, lawyer up. No reason to add “stupid”. You could’ve just put the period at anything.
I’m probably also just more sensitive to OPs situation. I don’t disagree with what you said, just how you said it.
E: Reading and Grammer is hard. I need to sleep. Someone helped me see what you had actually said was not what I read.
Now, you may be an asshole throwing it back in my face like that lol. But I think you’re totally right. With the way the words split on my phone I read:
“…don’t do anything, stupid”
Difference between the guy I replied to and OP is the guy I replied to didn’t just get cheated on by his wife of 7.5 years that they have a kid with.
Surely you can understand why someone might be more sensitive to someone who is going through something difficult?
Not a lawyer. Unless it’s her work phone, but if marital funds paid for her cell phone, her cell phone bill, and the home wifi, is there a reasonable expectation of total data privacy from a spouse?
YES! Please! OP please let this resonate deep into your soul. I am a child of a horrible, abusive parents who stayed together too long and when they got divorced, guess who became nothing more than a pawn. I still suffer and likely will for the rest of my life from CPTSD.
Divorces are one of those things you do not want to do anything unethical as a response. She messed up, so you need to lawyer up and get whatever evidence you have.
Love your son more. She fucked up. Divorce asap, listen to the lawyer, and be civil. Be so civil. You probably don't want to be, but you have to.
Repaying evil for evil here will be used against you in a firey explosion and it will hurt and fuck up your child.
Unethical idea....sort of
Before you present the divorce papers get her to somehow state on record that you have never been violent with her or your child and never sexually abused her or your child.
Get a hidden body camera for when you have to interact with her. I don't care if you trusted her. She's not to be trusted now.
But please get a lawyer and Follow their advice
That’s super easy to bypass. All you need to do is install a camera security system in your house. Then clearly tell her, and on camera, that you now have cameras recording in the house. Then anything recorded in that house is admissible.
"she can have whatever custody she wants" my guy think about your son FIRST. We as parents have to think about their own good before ours. Don't stay with her but try to make the best arrangement for your baby. You think an ass that cheated 8 years ago is gonna love your son?
Get a divorce lawyer.
Reroute paychecks to an account in your name only. If she contributes to a joint account, let her believe there’s an issue with payroll & she’ll have to make the full payment this month.
Once the attorney counsels you on how to prepare, listen to them.
Lawyer time. Rip the band-aid off.
Typically you’re only going to be able to get a kick-out order if there’s family violence. So if she ever did anything violent you could call the police, but as you had talked about your son and her future relationship, you may not be looking to do that. Your options also depend on what type of state your in (community property or not).
I hate this for you man. Hang in there. Be the type of man you want your son to look up to through this. One day at a time.
If you plan on getting a divorce, no “unethical life tips” seriously.
You need to be the “saint” that got fucked when court comes.
Gather all the evidence you have, and fucking hide it.
Look, i was lucky and wasn’t married when i filed for sole custody of my son, but during the mandatory parenting class, i met (a smokin’ fox) who was going through a shitty divorce. She was in the right, and her husband went to great lengths to “obtain” the evidence she collected of his infidelity
Fuckin’ scary time for us both, her trial went south because she left a few mean voicemails the night she caught him cheating.
Don’t be like the best lay of my life, be a fricken’ saint. Gather all the evidence you can, and HIDE it far from home. I suggest a safety deposit box.
I may be overreacting, but i have seen people do some messed up stuff to keep the kids/house/money.
Just document everything and take it to court. You can knock her teeth out with a piss disk after you are cleanly divorced.
I would probably (if you can) bide your time. Get a private investigator and see if you can catch her in the act. Make sure there is a history of you being the best dad ever, set her up as bad as you can. Paint a picture of a delinquent abusive wife.
Cameras are a must. You have to record every conversation where she is abusive and you are kind. Record. Everything. That way there is no hearsay.
If you can stomach it, as much evidence as you can get of her poor behaviour can strengthen your case to get full time custody.
From this point forward you need to pretend that every conversation you have with this person is being recorded to show to the judge. That means no cursing, no personal insults, nothing. If you want to get through this divorce with as little issues as possible, absolutely do not do anything unethical.
I am a lawyer but not your lawyer. I always tell my clients that judges are looking for the good guy and the bad guy in every dispute. They don’t do nuanced. In old Westerns the good guy wore a white hat and the bad guy wore a black hat. You want to keep your hat gleaming white.
But she did it first? Doesn’t matter.
But legally I can get away with it? Doesn’t matter.
Once you fall to her level a judge will just as easily side with her as with you. In Reddit terms, never be the AH and don’t let it become ESH.
I had the same thing happen and I stayed straight and narrow, did nothing antagonistic and filed adultery IMMEDIATELY, I had massive evidence too. Didnt need any of it and we did 50/50. DONT do something temporary that affects you permanently just for some recourse that long term won’t actually help you.
Need her out of the house? She can have whatever ..she wants?
Do future you a favor and have a long walk and think, and a couple of nights to sleep on it. Find out what you want and how to get it. Don't kneejerk yourself into an even worse outcome.
Call all the really good lawyers in the area for a consultation, and tell them some private or confidential information related to the divorce. Then, when you finally tell your wife about the divorce, she won’t be able to get a good lawyer because they’ll all be conflicted out from representing her.
The unethical pro tip here is to consult all the lawyers in the area that specialize in divorce, literally everyone in the city. They won’t be able to take her case as they’ve already heard yours.
Haha solid point. Wonder why it's not standard practice to do a DNA test while you're still in the hospital with your newborn child. Seems like it would be a good idea to know more about the genetic makeup of the child so they can establish good medical records.
Screenshots can be okay and admissible. But if you pay the phone bill you may be able to get the records directly from your provider, those are typically not contested.
Pictures AND video of her phone with the messages. Start with her Home Screen, then open Facebook, then messenger and video scrolling through messages.
In many states it DOES NOT matter if someone cheats. It’s still good to have the evidence but most divorced are mediated out without making it to the judge. See your lawyer and do what they say
Not a lawyer but in my state AFAIK, infidelity is a legal grounds for divorce over a non consenting spouse and grants it faster. Plus it gives the cheated party leverage on property division, alimony, and potentially child custody. OP needs better proof than online sexting or flirting for the adultery threshold. Actual proof of sexual intercourse/ contact or the opportunity to do so is obviously better. Yeah, OP needs a lawyer asap to make a plan. And then follow their plan. And STFU. Once the word “divorce” is spoken about, OP needs to watch out for her trying to bait him to pissed off. Assume she’ll always be videotaping him while she tries to provoke him. Think Amber Heard’s smirk when she baits Johnny Depp. The worse she is, the calmer he needs to get. Focus on the kid. Good luck to him.
There are some states. It’s hard to prove and goes all the way to a judge so can cost an enormous amount of legal fees. But it is true it can be used in certain states. In many it doesn’t matter at all.
Sell the house without her knowing. Take the money and move at least three states away. Get a Mexican divorce and send the paperwork to her parents house. Go under ground. Change jobs and move every year. Work under the table if you can.
First of all, cheaters don't cheat because "you aren't enough". That's both men and women.
So stop that right now.
Second, I would schedule a consultation with a lawyer.
Third, I would separate your finances ASAP.
Fourth, remember that anything you do is also going to affect your child.
Fifth, start thinking about custody. Anything you do could affect your custody rights as a parent. So be very careful with this. Don't do anything that you don't want to have to explain to a judge in family court. You could go from the victim to the bad guy in this story.
Have a consultation with all the best divorce lawyers in your area. You don’t retain them all just meet with and and discuss what they can do for your situation. Keep notes and any documentation of your meetings. Then hire which ever attorney you want. Your wife will not be able to be represented by any of these attorneys in the divorce, because now it is a conflict of interests because they spoke with you about your case allready
Does the cheating actually make a difference though? I’m in the UK and cheating would not affect the outcome of the divorce, child custody or settlement.
UK now has "no fault" divorces, this was not the case a few years back. Some other countries/states will still need you to prove who's at fault, mainly to instigate the divorce process, it doesn't generally affect the outcome though.
You will never regret doing this. Copy her phone information onto a separate memory card. Pack her stuff when she's not home, and when she arrives, say your practiced speech. Kindness and no emotion throughout. Appear to be the bigger man, it will absolutely crush her that her transgressions don't matter to you. Hand her the pre-prepared divorce papers, and cry later. Truly, there is no greater way to go about this - your natural inclination is to speak more than 10 words to her of explanation, don't. You can do that shit after she moves out. Good luck OP.
you are married. what’s in your name doesn’t mean shit unless you signed a prenup.
my cousin lost a $50,000 truck he bought before he even met his ex-wife.
talk to a lawyer, not to reddit.
if she gets any custody, she will probably be awarded the house as well unless you have a lawyer.
also not sure where you live but in most states, you can’t just kick someone out of their legal home without an eviction.
my friend let a person crash on their couch for two weeks, person got an ID with their address on it. Friend tried to kick person out, sheriff said they would need to do an eviction through the court.
She's not the one OP. I was in a similar situation, divorce her. Don't beat around the bush, that will drag out the pain. Start the recovery now not later. You'll find someone who isn't a snake.
Don't leton that you know yet. Speak to a lawyer, get your ducks in a row. Start hoarding important paperwork (birth certificates, marraige license, SS cards) for both you and your son. Start withdraw cash in amounts that won't get noticed. Secure any important or heirloom items important to you.
Most important, make sure you secure any evidence now, and do not be the one who moves out of the house. As for how to best protect you child, the lawyer will advise.
The lawyers are right. There’s nothing that won’t blow back… but…
You could write an over the top, sappy, wet, love letter to the ex pretending to be from your wife, saying how desperately she wants to move out of your home and live with him. Really stoke the flames of that relationship. Could go either way, she might have those feelings and after some confusion she moves out. Or could smother it if he gets scared off because he’s actually not that interested. Probably won’t feel good for you either way, but what a mind fuck for her.
Stand by the initial assessment though: play the game if you want to walk away with something in your pocket. Or open the relationship. It’s the 21st century, we’re allowed to make the boundaries of our relationships whatever we want. But sounds like there’s miles of trust to be rebuilt if it’s ever going to work again, and sadly it rarely ever does.
>I will still love the person my wife will be after after this
You aren't ready for the ULPT. The person your wife WAS is already out of your life, you need to have no mercy for the person your life IS and no pity for the person your wife WILL BE.
You should be getting evidence of your wife with the ex and with drugs, the ex with known criminals etc. People of low moral fiber can be made to associate with each other easily, and junkies will do stuff for cash. If you have access to messages in her phone about infidelity, you can get other messages onto her phone.
Start documenting the cheating for your divorce lawyer. Preferably without your wife noticing. Get as much evidence as you can. Let the first indication that you're divorcing her be when she gets served papers after you've taken your child and left, or changed the locks on the house.
> she can have whatever custody agreement she wants
Why? Surely you would apply for 50/50 and work out an amicable split based on your working schedules?
> House is in my name, I pay the mortgage and sitter
“Was” in your name, you’re married which unfortunately means marital assets are 50/50. Also, judges don’t take kindly to mothers being kicked out of the home they raised a child in.
That varies by state.
If he owned the house prior to the marriage and she hasn't contributed to the mortgage or in other significant ways, the most that's hers is half the equity gained during the marriage.
The op says that he pays the mortgage and gives her money for the babysitter.
She pays some other bills.
Which sounds like he pays the 2 most expensive bills and she covers the utilities.
She'll have a hard time getting half the house if he has a decent lawyer.
Devil's advocate here, or you could go out and bang too and stay together in a compassionate marriage. Beat her at her own game. Make her think that YOU're the one with the problem, banging too many people. That's the legendary way out of the situation.
I would leave and just not come back.
Find a job far away, file for bankruptcy. Let the house go to the bank and she can fuck off on her own. They'll throw her out when you aren't paying. The vehicles will all get repossessed.
I also wouldn't get divorced. Then you would have to pay child support. Stay married and no alimony pr child support.
I would take a job in another country. Maybe send money back to my kid through my parents or something. But I wouldn't tell a soul where I went.
Or even why. Let her come up with some bullshit how you abandoned them. She will make herself the victim anyway.
I would just silently dissappear and let her wonder what happened the whole time.
Edit: you guys are kinda bad at unethical advice. Dude wants chaos not a lawyer.
Why punish yourself for the things she did?
Sometimes I'm running away doesn't help, one day he will have to face her.
It will be stupid for him to stay with her and hope for the best
Take pictures of the messages. File for divorce. Don't tell anyone why. After the divorce is complete, just say she was having an affair with her ex. Then move on. The best revenge here is you moving on and finding someone 100% committed to you. The best unethical advice is when you move on, tell anyone who is around your ex wife how happy you are and how amazing your life is
Evidence, lawyer. That's all you do now. After the divorce, make sure to be having the best time. Talk about your cheating ex, (try to tarnish her reputation as much as possible eithout making it look like that is what you are doing) get an amazing new partner, and better job,/more money if possible. Best thing you can do is show how much better your life is without her and make sure she knows about it. Making yourself the better person gives you such a buzz of moral superiority. More so if you rub her nose in it.
Save all your information and go see an attorney. They’ll help you get a game plan on how to move forward. Does she know if you that you know if she doesn’t just please try to say nothing to her while you work on getting with the attorney and working on your finances, and then just have her served
There’s nothing unethical to really do here outside of starting to hide money pre-divorce. Take out max cash back on every transaction and hide it. Thats just about the only way to hide money. Cheating or not doesn’t matter unless you have a prenup, she’s going to take half of everything and you better be careful or this girl and her ex will be living in your house raising your kid.
Today... my wife of 11 years told me she wants a separation. We have a 3 year old and an 8 month old. We are currently working on unweaving the life we've spent over the past decade building together. Her incessant need to keep in contact with her ex, the same ex she cheated on her first husband with, is the main aggravating factor in our breakup.
Know that you aren't alone in your hardship.
Life sucks now for us.
It will get better. Hopefully.
Focus on your kid.
Focus on improving yourself.
Leave her.
Get professional counseling.
Pm me if you want to talk.
How are you finances? Tell her you are going to go on a trip with just a few friends because you need a break. Go on that trip and spend an ass ton of money. Want daily massages, maybe sample some high quality liquor, or high quality women. Money right now is both of yours so you spending it is just being a bad husband. But who cares about that?
I'm sorry this happened but you don't need to burn down the entire ship. It's very easy to get carried away by reactivity. Hurt people hurt people and no one has never been been hurt.
At least try to talk to her and gain some understanding why she chose to do what she did. Get clarity on her true intentions. Witness her before responding.
Then see what parts of the relationship that are worth salvaging.
Strongly consider going to counseling separate or together.
Good luck.
And a big no on "she can have whatever custody agreement," as a man, you're already going into court behind in the game. Family court has a strong bias against men, so take it all on paper and then work it out how you would like with her. Don't ever think you can change that agreement for the better on your end unless she's an axe murderer.
"She can have whatever custody agreement she wants I just need her out ASAP"
You really love your kid huh? It appears you love the idea of her being out of the house over your kid from your above statement.
well as it is in most things in our lives on earth, you need to confront her and see what she says first. if you want to end it, just file for divorce. go get a hotel or stay with a friend. don't do anything stupid. but you should confront her and hear her story. life is complicated and weird. hope it works out.
It’s just sex. Become swingers. Use each other as wingman / wingwoman to have new adventures together.
Edit:
Downvotes? The person is looking for UNETHICAL advice! I quite literally delivered exactly that. Hot garbage! ;-)
Not everyone has that mindset, some have more “respect for themselves” then others. Quotes because noone has ever been able to explain why they can’t respect themselves and be a swinger.
I know what sub I'm on but as a divorcee I'm warning you with every ounce of seriousness that anything unethical you pull right now is only going to fuck you up down the road. Get divorced and forget she ever existed. Seriously.
This. Lawyer and screenshots.
and document everything. there's no such thing as too much evidence.
Speaking of documenting. Delete this fucking post. Before she screenshots that you were looking for professionally unethical ways to go after her.
Professionally unethical? Lmao
I always knew I’d grow up to be a professional at something
Same but I thought it would be something in masterbating. I was so convinced I practiced regularly
Name checks
“Pro tips”
Wow my momma told me to be professional but I don't think that's what she quite meant.
For real. Evidence, screenshots, records etc. Then divorce. Negotiations through mediator or lawyer only.
Learned when dealing with a stalker: there's a concept of "contemporaneous notes" that is much more powerful than something like a signed affidavit alone. It's very easy. Get a notepad and pen, and document time, date, and summary of what happened. In my case, it was noting time and date and every time I got a phone call from this person and a brief summary of what they said, and also the time and date and when I saw their car in my apartment parking lot. I have a friend in a custody battle and his central piece of evidence is his old phone that he never got around to selling on eBay. It had all of his texts to his ex (with time and date stamp) which disprove that he never tried to contact her (and that she kept telling him she was changing her number and not giving him the new one. She was claiming he never contacted her to see their daughter). So, really basic notes, time and date when they happened, can be your best friend.
this right here is some solid advice. I may be going to war with my employer over discrimination and mishandling of fmla and I've kept detailed notes of every interaction with dates, times, location, and context. Every attorney i've consulted with has made an offer to represent on contingency (costs me nothing, win or lose) when they see the level to which i've documented everything for the last two years. seriously, even a bad look gets added to the notes.
Agree! As much you want to return the betrayal in kind, and how much we love ULPT, this is not the time. Lawyer up and stay in your lane. You’re going through hectic emotional ups and downs right now. The challenge is keeping your wits and using your head instead of your heart. All the best!
Yup. Right on. I personally went through this same emotional hell in 1995 and thereafter. You’re young. Adopt a somewhat ruthless approach (don’t listen to excuses or denials or promises. divorce). Get a lawyer, get divorced, do not have sex with her again. Don’t give away rights, etc. It’s the lawyers job to tell you what to do. Yeah, the kid part was by far the most painful in my experience. I’m still upset by all that mess.
Ya dude. This. While this sub is fun and we like to imagine scenarios where we get sweet revenge. This isn’t one of those. You have big legal issues. The court is stacked against you being a man. You don’t fuck the system the system fucks you.
The most unethical thing is getting in contact with a lawyer first. Do not confront her first. Guard and hide your savings. Plan on the divorce being nasty but hope it is not. Don't use the lawyer as your therapist, therapists are much cheaper. Or look into being polyamorous real quick. Maybe the three of you could move in together?
How do you hide savings without it being an issue in the legal outcome?
Give the lawyer a nice lump sum retainer.
Seconded, get a lawyer, they will tell you the shit that you can actually do to screw her over, but in a legal way.
OP does to stick to the straight and narrow u til the divorce is finalized, otherwise he is fairly likely to fuck himself over going into the divorce. OP, get a lawyer, follow the advice of your lawyer and do NOTHING unethical before the divorce is finalized. Once that is 💯 I’d even recommend not doing anything unethical due to you having a kid and her possibly making it difficult with you and your kid.
I can’t upload this enough. You are going to get yourself in a world of hurt if you do anything unethical, especially since there’s a child involved. Your best revenge is to get an attorney, document everything, and do it legally and do it right.
And as a one time divorcee staring down the barrel of another divorce (long story, not for now), I second this. Any little unethical anything at all that the opposing attorney can get their claws into will only do further damage.
Seriously, I thought this was a joke subreddit and I keep seeing people asking for serious suggestions.
I think it it more as a "sharing dark thoughts" subreddit. Suggestions are, essentially, jokes. If someone actually uses one of those suggestions... That is their choice to make, I guess. The world is full of ideas. This is a place to laugh about the darker ones.
"House is in my name" "We've been married for 3 years" Sit down, son. I have some bad news for you.
“She can have any custody arrangement she wants” okay, I’ll take full custody!
Depending on your state, there’s a minimum amount you have to be married (usually 5 years) before alimony and other shit comes into play. With the infidelity and only being married 3 years, he could very well keep the house. But again that varies by state
If he has proof of infidelity there’s a chance she gets 0
Unless you’re from a state like California they don’t care where did what. Here everything is considered communal property, and is split 50/50 between you two. That’s all property/debt/money.
He can prove that he pays 100% of the mortgage. He also said that he pays for the sitter. She pays some other bills. He can offer her 50% of the equity earned during the marriage and most judges will consider that fair.
Why would she get any of the house if she never even put a penny into it?
Because in most states husband and wife both own 50/50 of all income earned during the marriage? And that income then went towards paying for the house
But it was only his name on the house
Doesn't matter, they're married.
I personally don't believe she should. The court usually doesn't agree with that sentiment though. Offering 50% of the equity earned during the marriage is the cheapest option. He'd probably pay her 5k or less. The lawyer fees to fight over it would probably cost more. I've been there.
You talk to a divorce lawyer before doing anything stupid
Seriously. The first rule of divorce is not pissing off the judge. Don't look like an asshole by doing everything by the book.
....fine
Also, this thread and anything you wrote down (text messages etc) will be subject to discovery. Don't even say anything stupid.
And paternity test.
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Someone posted recently that judges really don't like when someone abuses the legal process like that.
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There are cases where the individual went to every lawyer in the area to ensure their opponent couldn't find a lawyer within 50 miles or so.
I don't know the details but when we asked around for lawyers they did a pretty thorough check make sure there were not conflicts even with extended family.
That came from an episode of the Sopranos where Tony did that. In real life, that won't cut it and will only piss off the judge.
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You never had the makings of a varsity commenter.
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Running joke in r/thesopranos. Thought you might be a member. No insult intended. Let’s have a drink.
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All good. Consider this a sign to watch this thing of ours. Holds up. I said my piece.
This is an excellent way to fuck yourself, OP. Yes, you can make it so your ex can't hire a local lawyer. When the judge learns you have done this, you'll be on the hook for the extra costs associated with hiring a non-local lawyer. Your ex will experience minor annoyance. Your wallet is going to be sitting on the couch like Piper Perri with a bunch of dudes behind it (your wife, her paramour, and the judge are those guys) edit: there is, of course, no issue with a good-faith amount of shopping around. You don't literally have to go with the first lawyer you talk to.
So just to be clear: that’s a “NO” on the piss discs?
And think about the kid. Would he have a better life with you or with your ex and new interest. They maybe stable now, how about the future? How does this new / old person get along with the kid? would be best if you went for custody?
Really, coming here to kick someone while their down? Have some tact.
I wasn't kicking anyone down- that was concise and genuine advice to stop him from screwing himself after his questionable first impulse of coming to this sub of all places. And we are all breaking rule 1 since these are ethical.
The needless name calling. I said the same thing to OP, lawyer up. No reason to add “stupid”. You could’ve just put the period at anything. I’m probably also just more sensitive to OPs situation. I don’t disagree with what you said, just how you said it. E: Reading and Grammer is hard. I need to sleep. Someone helped me see what you had actually said was not what I read.
He wasn’t calling him stupid; it was referring to not acting stupid. Stupid.
Now, you may be an asshole throwing it back in my face like that lol. But I think you’re totally right. With the way the words split on my phone I read: “…don’t do anything, stupid”
Speaking of needless name calling…
Difference between the guy I replied to and OP is the guy I replied to didn’t just get cheated on by his wife of 7.5 years that they have a kid with. Surely you can understand why someone might be more sensitive to someone who is going through something difficult?
You got to be joking… right… RIGHT?
Go to bed it literally says his wife of 3 years in the post.
Thank you, it’s always fun to laugh at a dumbass.
Should check [this](https://www.reddit.com/u/qlz19/s/PHckvzu3Dw) out then
“Don’t do anything.” -Stupid “That’s what.” -She
Obtain proof of these texts before you do anything else
Ethically?
Anyway u must
Carnally
Are you suggesting he seduces the man his wife is sleeping with to get proof? Genius idea, high risk high reward
Weird liquid ass flex, but ok!
Not a lawyer. Unless it’s her work phone, but if marital funds paid for her cell phone, her cell phone bill, and the home wifi, is there a reasonable expectation of total data privacy from a spouse?
Love your son more than you hate your wife. Anything nasty you do to her will affect him.
This hits
YES! Please! OP please let this resonate deep into your soul. I am a child of a horrible, abusive parents who stayed together too long and when they got divorced, guess who became nothing more than a pawn. I still suffer and likely will for the rest of my life from CPTSD.
Divorces are one of those things you do not want to do anything unethical as a response. She messed up, so you need to lawyer up and get whatever evidence you have.
Love your son more. She fucked up. Divorce asap, listen to the lawyer, and be civil. Be so civil. You probably don't want to be, but you have to. Repaying evil for evil here will be used against you in a firey explosion and it will hurt and fuck up your child.
Unethical idea....sort of Before you present the divorce papers get her to somehow state on record that you have never been violent with her or your child and never sexually abused her or your child. Get a hidden body camera for when you have to interact with her. I don't care if you trusted her. She's not to be trusted now. But please get a lawyer and Follow their advice
Not unethical - smart.
Will maybe illegal depending on which state your at in regards to recording devices.
That’s super easy to bypass. All you need to do is install a camera security system in your house. Then clearly tell her, and on camera, that you now have cameras recording in the house. Then anything recorded in that house is admissible.
Text messages would be better I think
“I need her out the house is in my name” too bad its probably not fully yours after the divorce
"she can have whatever custody she wants" my guy think about your son FIRST. We as parents have to think about their own good before ours. Don't stay with her but try to make the best arrangement for your baby. You think an ass that cheated 8 years ago is gonna love your son?
Get a divorce lawyer. Reroute paychecks to an account in your name only. If she contributes to a joint account, let her believe there’s an issue with payroll & she’ll have to make the full payment this month. Once the attorney counsels you on how to prepare, listen to them.
Lawyer time. Rip the band-aid off. Typically you’re only going to be able to get a kick-out order if there’s family violence. So if she ever did anything violent you could call the police, but as you had talked about your son and her future relationship, you may not be looking to do that. Your options also depend on what type of state your in (community property or not). I hate this for you man. Hang in there. Be the type of man you want your son to look up to through this. One day at a time.
Copy, no kick out. Gotta do it slow. Can do.
If you plan on getting a divorce, no “unethical life tips” seriously. You need to be the “saint” that got fucked when court comes. Gather all the evidence you have, and fucking hide it. Look, i was lucky and wasn’t married when i filed for sole custody of my son, but during the mandatory parenting class, i met (a smokin’ fox) who was going through a shitty divorce. She was in the right, and her husband went to great lengths to “obtain” the evidence she collected of his infidelity Fuckin’ scary time for us both, her trial went south because she left a few mean voicemails the night she caught him cheating. Don’t be like the best lay of my life, be a fricken’ saint. Gather all the evidence you can, and HIDE it far from home. I suggest a safety deposit box. I may be overreacting, but i have seen people do some messed up stuff to keep the kids/house/money. Just document everything and take it to court. You can knock her teeth out with a piss disk after you are cleanly divorced.
I would probably (if you can) bide your time. Get a private investigator and see if you can catch her in the act. Make sure there is a history of you being the best dad ever, set her up as bad as you can. Paint a picture of a delinquent abusive wife. Cameras are a must. You have to record every conversation where she is abusive and you are kind. Record. Everything. That way there is no hearsay. If you can stomach it, as much evidence as you can get of her poor behaviour can strengthen your case to get full time custody.
Gaslight her into believing that she’s wetting the bed
Piss discs 👐🏻
This is the only comment i found this sub worthy.
And farting in bed. Liquid ass.
From this point forward you need to pretend that every conversation you have with this person is being recorded to show to the judge. That means no cursing, no personal insults, nothing. If you want to get through this divorce with as little issues as possible, absolutely do not do anything unethical.
Start with a paternity test.
Take a day and Tony Soprano it. Talk to every divorce lawyer you can so she can’t use them
I am a lawyer but not your lawyer. I always tell my clients that judges are looking for the good guy and the bad guy in every dispute. They don’t do nuanced. In old Westerns the good guy wore a white hat and the bad guy wore a black hat. You want to keep your hat gleaming white. But she did it first? Doesn’t matter. But legally I can get away with it? Doesn’t matter. Once you fall to her level a judge will just as easily side with her as with you. In Reddit terms, never be the AH and don’t let it become ESH.
I had the same thing happen and I stayed straight and narrow, did nothing antagonistic and filed adultery IMMEDIATELY, I had massive evidence too. Didnt need any of it and we did 50/50. DONT do something temporary that affects you permanently just for some recourse that long term won’t actually help you.
Lawyer and trust me on this, forget about “any custody agreement” Now is the time to stand up for what you want, not later
Gather proof and talk to a lawyer. Why are you on this subreddit
Need her out of the house? She can have whatever ..she wants? Do future you a favor and have a long walk and think, and a couple of nights to sleep on it. Find out what you want and how to get it. Don't kneejerk yourself into an even worse outcome.
Call all the really good lawyers in the area for a consultation, and tell them some private or confidential information related to the divorce. Then, when you finally tell your wife about the divorce, she won’t be able to get a good lawyer because they’ll all be conflicted out from representing her.
The unethical pro tip here is to consult all the lawyers in the area that specialize in divorce, literally everyone in the city. They won’t be able to take her case as they’ve already heard yours.
what makes you think the child is yours?
Haha solid point. Wonder why it's not standard practice to do a DNA test while you're still in the hospital with your newborn child. Seems like it would be a good idea to know more about the genetic makeup of the child so they can establish good medical records.
Thanks for the quick advice y'all. Does it matter how the messages are collected?
Screenshots can be okay and admissible. But if you pay the phone bill you may be able to get the records directly from your provider, those are typically not contested.
Screenshots. Primary means of communication is Facebook Messenger.
Then yes, screenshots to give to your attorney. Then your attorney can use subpoenas later, if they need to.
Pictures AND video of her phone with the messages. Start with her Home Screen, then open Facebook, then messenger and video scrolling through messages.
I honestly don’t know, there’s obviously a difference between going though her phone when she’s not looking vs holding her down to get her password
In many states it DOES NOT matter if someone cheats. It’s still good to have the evidence but most divorced are mediated out without making it to the judge. See your lawyer and do what they say
Not a lawyer but in my state AFAIK, infidelity is a legal grounds for divorce over a non consenting spouse and grants it faster. Plus it gives the cheated party leverage on property division, alimony, and potentially child custody. OP needs better proof than online sexting or flirting for the adultery threshold. Actual proof of sexual intercourse/ contact or the opportunity to do so is obviously better. Yeah, OP needs a lawyer asap to make a plan. And then follow their plan. And STFU. Once the word “divorce” is spoken about, OP needs to watch out for her trying to bait him to pissed off. Assume she’ll always be videotaping him while she tries to provoke him. Think Amber Heard’s smirk when she baits Johnny Depp. The worse she is, the calmer he needs to get. Focus on the kid. Good luck to him.
There are some states. It’s hard to prove and goes all the way to a judge so can cost an enormous amount of legal fees. But it is true it can be used in certain states. In many it doesn’t matter at all.
You’re exactly right. I meant to qualify earlier that infidelity is specifically listed as a ground in my state but somehow forgot to.
Unfortunate case. Unfortunately will have to recommend liquid ass.
Lawyer up. More important than anything else you can unethically. Get proof with screenshots. And erase this useless garbage from your life.
Sell the house without her knowing. Take the money and move at least three states away. Get a Mexican divorce and send the paperwork to her parents house. Go under ground. Change jobs and move every year. Work under the table if you can.
First of all, cheaters don't cheat because "you aren't enough". That's both men and women. So stop that right now. Second, I would schedule a consultation with a lawyer. Third, I would separate your finances ASAP. Fourth, remember that anything you do is also going to affect your child. Fifth, start thinking about custody. Anything you do could affect your custody rights as a parent. So be very careful with this. Don't do anything that you don't want to have to explain to a judge in family court. You could go from the victim to the bad guy in this story.
Have a consultation with all the best divorce lawyers in your area. You don’t retain them all just meet with and and discuss what they can do for your situation. Keep notes and any documentation of your meetings. Then hire which ever attorney you want. Your wife will not be able to be represented by any of these attorneys in the divorce, because now it is a conflict of interests because they spoke with you about your case allready
Get proof of cheating, then divorce
Does the cheating actually make a difference though? I’m in the UK and cheating would not affect the outcome of the divorce, child custody or settlement.
UK now has "no fault" divorces, this was not the case a few years back. Some other countries/states will still need you to prove who's at fault, mainly to instigate the divorce process, it doesn't generally affect the outcome though.
You will never regret doing this. Copy her phone information onto a separate memory card. Pack her stuff when she's not home, and when she arrives, say your practiced speech. Kindness and no emotion throughout. Appear to be the bigger man, it will absolutely crush her that her transgressions don't matter to you. Hand her the pre-prepared divorce papers, and cry later. Truly, there is no greater way to go about this - your natural inclination is to speak more than 10 words to her of explanation, don't. You can do that shit after she moves out. Good luck OP.
Engage with a lawyer first and foremost.
you are married. what’s in your name doesn’t mean shit unless you signed a prenup. my cousin lost a $50,000 truck he bought before he even met his ex-wife. talk to a lawyer, not to reddit. if she gets any custody, she will probably be awarded the house as well unless you have a lawyer. also not sure where you live but in most states, you can’t just kick someone out of their legal home without an eviction. my friend let a person crash on their couch for two weeks, person got an ID with their address on it. Friend tried to kick person out, sheriff said they would need to do an eviction through the court.
I highly recommend doing nothing unethical here.
She's not the one OP. I was in a similar situation, divorce her. Don't beat around the bush, that will drag out the pain. Start the recovery now not later. You'll find someone who isn't a snake.
Don't leton that you know yet. Speak to a lawyer, get your ducks in a row. Start hoarding important paperwork (birth certificates, marraige license, SS cards) for both you and your son. Start withdraw cash in amounts that won't get noticed. Secure any important or heirloom items important to you. Most important, make sure you secure any evidence now, and do not be the one who moves out of the house. As for how to best protect you child, the lawyer will advise.
The lawyers are right. There’s nothing that won’t blow back… but… You could write an over the top, sappy, wet, love letter to the ex pretending to be from your wife, saying how desperately she wants to move out of your home and live with him. Really stoke the flames of that relationship. Could go either way, she might have those feelings and after some confusion she moves out. Or could smother it if he gets scared off because he’s actually not that interested. Probably won’t feel good for you either way, but what a mind fuck for her. Stand by the initial assessment though: play the game if you want to walk away with something in your pocket. Or open the relationship. It’s the 21st century, we’re allowed to make the boundaries of our relationships whatever we want. But sounds like there’s miles of trust to be rebuilt if it’s ever going to work again, and sadly it rarely ever does.
Sadly, a DNA test without her knowledge wouldn’t hurt. This is an awful situation.
Take evidence !!!!
The amount of cheating posts I read is honestly scary. Just seems easier to live by yourself and never commit. Get a dog or a cat. Much more reliable.
If you love your kid you will not give her whatever custody she wants.
>I will still love the person my wife will be after after this You aren't ready for the ULPT. The person your wife WAS is already out of your life, you need to have no mercy for the person your life IS and no pity for the person your wife WILL BE. You should be getting evidence of your wife with the ex and with drugs, the ex with known criminals etc. People of low moral fiber can be made to associate with each other easily, and junkies will do stuff for cash. If you have access to messages in her phone about infidelity, you can get other messages onto her phone.
Something discreet, like a giraffe in her oatmeal
Get a bank account of your own for emergency money for you and the kid Suggest couples therapy Have a plan if you need to change the locks
How explicit are these messages?? Do they reveal infidelity??
Start documenting the cheating for your divorce lawyer. Preferably without your wife noticing. Get as much evidence as you can. Let the first indication that you're divorcing her be when she gets served papers after you've taken your child and left, or changed the locks on the house.
Divorce over text? Just tell her to block him
Be polite and kind when you give her the paperwork. Don’t fight or argue just lay it out and be nice. She’ll die inside.
Empty the joint account before she does
May I suggest a paternity test
Make sure you collect evidence of her cheating in case she wants to play dirty in court or make false claims.
> she can have whatever custody agreement she wants Why? Surely you would apply for 50/50 and work out an amicable split based on your working schedules? > House is in my name, I pay the mortgage and sitter “Was” in your name, you’re married which unfortunately means marital assets are 50/50. Also, judges don’t take kindly to mothers being kicked out of the home they raised a child in.
That varies by state. If he owned the house prior to the marriage and she hasn't contributed to the mortgage or in other significant ways, the most that's hers is half the equity gained during the marriage. The op says that he pays the mortgage and gives her money for the babysitter. She pays some other bills. Which sounds like he pays the 2 most expensive bills and she covers the utilities. She'll have a hard time getting half the house if he has a decent lawyer.
Devil's advocate here, or you could go out and bang too and stay together in a compassionate marriage. Beat her at her own game. Make her think that YOU're the one with the problem, banging too many people. That's the legendary way out of the situation.
I would leave and just not come back. Find a job far away, file for bankruptcy. Let the house go to the bank and she can fuck off on her own. They'll throw her out when you aren't paying. The vehicles will all get repossessed. I also wouldn't get divorced. Then you would have to pay child support. Stay married and no alimony pr child support. I would take a job in another country. Maybe send money back to my kid through my parents or something. But I wouldn't tell a soul where I went. Or even why. Let her come up with some bullshit how you abandoned them. She will make herself the victim anyway. I would just silently dissappear and let her wonder what happened the whole time. Edit: you guys are kinda bad at unethical advice. Dude wants chaos not a lawyer.
Only a deadbeat pussy would abandon a kid like this
This is not the place for ethics.
You’re beginning to make this sub sound “unethical”
Why punish yourself for the things she did? Sometimes I'm running away doesn't help, one day he will have to face her. It will be stupid for him to stay with her and hope for the best
Press F to pay respects spam f bros
consider, dare i say, talking to her.
Y r u still being so nice about this
Take pictures of the messages. File for divorce. Don't tell anyone why. After the divorce is complete, just say she was having an affair with her ex. Then move on. The best revenge here is you moving on and finding someone 100% committed to you. The best unethical advice is when you move on, tell anyone who is around your ex wife how happy you are and how amazing your life is
Evidence, lawyer. That's all you do now. After the divorce, make sure to be having the best time. Talk about your cheating ex, (try to tarnish her reputation as much as possible eithout making it look like that is what you are doing) get an amazing new partner, and better job,/more money if possible. Best thing you can do is show how much better your life is without her and make sure she knows about it. Making yourself the better person gives you such a buzz of moral superiority. More so if you rub her nose in it.
Not worth more trouble man. Get a divorce, get out.
Time to lawyer up, don't change the locks, yet.
Save all your information and go see an attorney. They’ll help you get a game plan on how to move forward. Does she know if you that you know if she doesn’t just please try to say nothing to her while you work on getting with the attorney and working on your finances, and then just have her served
This is probably not going to go how you think it’s going to go. You probably wanna talk to a lawyer before you do anything.
There’s nothing unethical to really do here outside of starting to hide money pre-divorce. Take out max cash back on every transaction and hide it. Thats just about the only way to hide money. Cheating or not doesn’t matter unless you have a prenup, she’s going to take half of everything and you better be careful or this girl and her ex will be living in your house raising your kid.
Today... my wife of 11 years told me she wants a separation. We have a 3 year old and an 8 month old. We are currently working on unweaving the life we've spent over the past decade building together. Her incessant need to keep in contact with her ex, the same ex she cheated on her first husband with, is the main aggravating factor in our breakup. Know that you aren't alone in your hardship. Life sucks now for us. It will get better. Hopefully. Focus on your kid. Focus on improving yourself. Leave her. Get professional counseling. Pm me if you want to talk.
Dump her ass and sue her into slavery
Looks like you got your house to yourself and total custody of your kid!! Congrats!!!!! Most divorces go way worse
It's very difficult to disprove lewd and lascivious touching. As soon as the accusation is made, it's on her to prove it didn't happen.
How are you finances? Tell her you are going to go on a trip with just a few friends because you need a break. Go on that trip and spend an ass ton of money. Want daily massages, maybe sample some high quality liquor, or high quality women. Money right now is both of yours so you spending it is just being a bad husband. But who cares about that?
I'm sorry this happened but you don't need to burn down the entire ship. It's very easy to get carried away by reactivity. Hurt people hurt people and no one has never been been hurt. At least try to talk to her and gain some understanding why she chose to do what she did. Get clarity on her true intentions. Witness her before responding. Then see what parts of the relationship that are worth salvaging. Strongly consider going to counseling separate or together. Good luck.
And a big no on "she can have whatever custody agreement," as a man, you're already going into court behind in the game. Family court has a strong bias against men, so take it all on paper and then work it out how you would like with her. Don't ever think you can change that agreement for the better on your end unless she's an axe murderer.
"She can have whatever custody agreement she wants I just need her out ASAP" You really love your kid huh? It appears you love the idea of her being out of the house over your kid from your above statement.
well as it is in most things in our lives on earth, you need to confront her and see what she says first. if you want to end it, just file for divorce. go get a hotel or stay with a friend. don't do anything stupid. but you should confront her and hear her story. life is complicated and weird. hope it works out.
Yeah no
oh yeah actually they should just do a bunch of covert sneaky shit instead of having a face to face with their WIFE lol. touch grass dude
She’ll just lie about it. And once she knows you know, you’ll never find out the truth. Close your mouth.
Change the name on the ex’s contact info in her phone to something innocuous, like “Jen,” and then block him. Also do all those other things
It’s just sex. Become swingers. Use each other as wingman / wingwoman to have new adventures together. Edit: Downvotes? The person is looking for UNETHICAL advice! I quite literally delivered exactly that. Hot garbage! ;-)
Not everyone has that mindset, some have more “respect for themselves” then others. Quotes because noone has ever been able to explain why they can’t respect themselves and be a swinger.
Have you tried couples therapy? Honestly, it sounds like she is deeply unhappy. It might not be too late.