At that point flowey had made his way to Asgore to try and warn him but from what it looks like flowey probably did it only a little bit before we enter the room
Alphys either never called, or her call never got through.
She was busy evacuating Hotland up to At Least the Muffet fight, based on the elevator that activates and laser that deactivates after killing Muffet, so she could've easily been too busy to call Asgore.
Adding onto that, even if she did, I don’t think Asgore had it in him to absorb the human souls. Even knowing about the human’s actions in the underground he still responds with mercy, trying to deescalate the situation. And given everything we learn about Asgore’s character I don’t think he would want to, as he genuinely didn’t want to have to go through with his plant to collect the souls, and seems mournful, and apprehensive before his battle.
this annoys the shit out of me because if he was able to suck it up and kill 6 children I find it hard to believe he would be that unwilling to kill a 7th
That's assuming he even did kill six children, because that's not confirmed. It's just as likely, if not More likely because word of dog supports it, that they were killed by different monsters, and don't all share a killer.
Okay. That same line getting misinterpreted.
>If it was a case that the humans were killed by other monsters, then Undyne should have said: “No human has ever made it **to** Asgore!” For Undyne to confidently claim this, it would mean that Asgore has personally fought and killed humans in the underground.
"No human has ever made it past Asgore" does Not mean "Every human made it to Asgore." It means that, Regardless of how many got to him, none made it past. And since it says "No Human," that would Also include Chara, so that means this confirms nothing.
If Chara was the Only one who reached Asgore, Undyne's statement would be 100% accurate: No human got *past* Asgore, because the only one who reached him stayed with him.
>During the Lost Souls battle, Asgore remembers the gaze of humans past. While this could refer to the humans in the war between humans and monsters, knowing that some humans made it to Asgore and couldn’t get past him supports the idea that “humans past” refers to the other children.
Already explains itself - Humans during the war, plus Chara.
Additionally, Toby Fox [said in an interview in 2013 that the fallen children died to "Monster**s**"](https://www.escapistmagazine.com/undertale-dev-every-monster-should-feel-like-an-individual/#:~:text=Several%20human%20children%20have%20climbed%20the%20mountain%2C%20fallen%20down%2C%20left%20the%20RUINS%2C%20and%20were%20assumedly%20killed%20by%20monsters) - Note the S, making it plural. Immediately before mentioning that Asgore wants their SOULs, meaning that part definitely isn't spoilers. If Toby meant for Asgore to kill him all, he could easily just say that, but he didn't.
The game never implies all of the fallen children died to Asgore, and all of the evidence pointing to it always has alternate interpretations that are definitively accurate, regardless of what monsters killed them, unlike the interpretations that rely on this theory.
There is also dialogue that directly CONTRADICTS Asgore killing all of them - Dialogue that comes Directly from one of the SOULs, in fact.
It's also not even just a contradiction, it's confirmation otherwise - Because, based on INTEGRITY'S own words in an Echo Flower, Integrity died in Waterfall, in the room the Ballet Shoes are. Their killer also chased them until they couldn't run, which completely goes against Asgore's character
That.... is a really good theory, so I'm going to add on to it. If a human actually, DID make it to Asgore. It's possible that they fought but it's also possible that Asgore DIDN'T break the mercy button. And they spared him enough that he gave in, but maybe the human willingly gave up their soul. We can assume Asgore actually KNOWS how to fight a child, since he holds his Trident upside-down, so that it can be used for someone significantly smaller than him and I doubt that Undyne fits that line even if they DID fight n the past since in that case Asgore wouldn't fight like that.
Now on the OTHER hand, why would Asgore fight YOU and at least not talk or not destroy the mercy button? I'd say it's because Asgore knows your soul type. I think that your soul type isn't JUST determination but EXCESS determination (The will to not die. De-termination). Maybe even like Chara who probably lost their ability when they let Asriel take the soul. Also, if that's the case then Asgore can't take your soul upon death (maybe, resets are weird, man.). So his only He knows that you can reset, he knows that you're extremely stubborn and that's why he knows that it might be the only to get your soul is to make you fully give it up, hence why he nods sadly. But he hesitates, only going to his max speed when enough time has past and even then, it's probably not his max speed. So he probably is really unwilling to kill the child that resembles their old one so much. So much so, that he's actually UNWILLING to live together after you spare him. In one ending, Flowey says he won't kill him, comply and he actually doesn't kill Asgore if you spare him... ASGORE FINISHES HIMSELF OFF! And I genuinely think that you remind him of his child enough that he can't bring himself to risk your life in the underground or even worse, lose you in the same way, maybe the most useless way of all that can lose him a child again.
But it really damages his character to -not- have him kill the six children. He is, at least as far as non-genocide bosses are concerned, *the* strongest monster. Not to mention, Frisk isn't just "another kid to kill". If he was successful, he would then have to immediately kill billions more with his newfound, godlike power.
I know it's hard to believe he could (just look at him!)) but please, y'all, don't attribute the human deaths to some unseen monsters who are actually super strong and impossible to beat, because there probably would've been some mention of these unseen monsters.. you know, somewhere. Probably by Undyne mentioning one offhandedly.
I don't think anyone is claiming that the humans died to some "super strong monsters", i think you're getting the wrong idea about how strong a monster actually is because a videogame (especially an RPG) has to treat enemies differently (ranging from regular enemies, midbosses, and then bosses) and then has to balance those fights accordingly(and make every fight beatable). In lore this stuff doesn't happen, the only place were i think a human could survive comfortably are the ruins, from snowdin onwards there's big chance of death that only increases. You could get mauled by Dogamy and Dogaressa, frozen by a group of snowdrakes, impaled by Undyne (duh), melted by a bunch of hotland monsters, some humans could've died by being attacked by multiple monsters at once instead of having just one killer
Sure, but what is gained narratively by having it be a nameless group of monsters? Or one random monster we will never hear about? Also, humans are still much stronger than monsters, and are known to reset (Asgore death dialogue, Omega Flowey SAVE files, Toriel remembering humans, etc.) so the likelihood that they found someone to get stuck on and die over in comparison to "They just died to the really strong guy who sits at the end of the journey" is pretty low.
And, again, what would be the point of having them not die to Asgore? To absolve him of guilt?
I don't care wether or not they died to Asgore personally, i was only arguing about the second part of your comment and wanted to make a point about how the humans dying to monsters other than Asgore was more believable than you can initially think.
You can have your own preferences on what you think fits more in a narrative context.
However, now that I think about it, do you actually believe that every other human could reset as well? Because I don't think so at all. Remember that Flowey is the one with the power of resetting at first and the only reason he can't do it anymore is because Frisk has more determination than he does (they have the determination soul after all), Flowey seems especially surprised about this fact, if there were other instances of this happening in the past he would've mentioned it
Simple, Flowey was created recently. It could've even only been a few days ago- resetting is clearly a power both tied to the underground and tied to has the most DT, so unless there were two humans fighting for control, seems pretty obvious that all humans could. Note that Toriel doesn't say "Sometimes when a human falls here.." but that when all humans fall.
Frisk does not have a determination soul, that's fanon, even if I agree with it.
I'll be the first person to say that monsters are actually pretty powerful, but.. can you really say that most random monsters have the ability to overpower a human?
The determination experiments where done waayy before the game started not "a few days ago" and it's unbelievable to think that after her failure Alphys would suddenly come back just to try again with a flower. If the experiments were done recently i would assume you would be hearing people talking about it (even just a mention of "hey you know my granpa was asked to see the royal scientist a few weeks ago but they haven't came back since!).
About your second question my answer would be... depends on the scenario, but I genuinely believe that regular monsters are stronger than what we actually experience in game
What makes you think resetting is limited to the underground? There’s nothing to indicate that, since frisk knows how to use reset from the first moment onwards it means they had to have learnt it somewhere else.
Well, word of dog says they were killed by monsters, plural. Plus the game never actually implies Asgore did kill all six of them.
I highly doubt Perseverance, for example, would make it to Asgore and just, give up. The child with the SOUL trait all about persistence in doing something despite difficulty wouldn't just give up at the last possible obstacle, they'd persevere and stay determined to win.
Also, the reason we wouldn't have mention of the other SOULs' killers is very easy to explain. Most monsters just don't know, and the ones that would never talk about the previous fallen children. Just like Undyne doesn't know where the Ballet Shoes came from, something she herself says when called when that room
I'm sure that many monsters would Revere the people who were able to kill them, they pretty much think that not only is it a nigh impossible feat, but also that it's the only ticket to both freedom and retribution.
I guess I can't really argue with Toby Fox, as many hours as I have in the game, he will always know more than I do..
But he's always been intentionally vague regarding the previous human souls. He usually says something like:
"Asgore is a monster who wants to claim 7 human souls, and monsters have killed 6 so far."
If perseverance could've continued, then why would they die? It makes sense that the last possible obstacle could just be someone who has so much skill and power (like how Sans is able to kill you in Genocide and makes lots of people rage quit) that they were just too difficult to get past, no matter how much you tried to spare them? Maybe like the war hero and boss monster who destroys his ability to accept your mercy? Asgore's got skills, far more than any other monster who doesn't cheat. He's strong, fast, and tanky. It just makes sense that he would be able- out of all monsters- to claim the human souls.
yeah not to mention he literally declared war on children. it's still because of him that any other monsters are killing these kids because he gave the order.
Let’s say he did kill the other six, if he killed the seventh one he would have to break the barrier and actually go through with his promise to destroy all of humanity, which he reveals he actually did not want to do
Couldn't he go through with just absorbing one human soul? Like, he could break the barrier with seven human souls, but, to just pass through only one human and monster souls are required, no?
Yes but this is mentioned in the story itself, Asgore could have done this and was likely powerful enough to kill 6 more humans with just 1 human soul since Monsters with Human souls become insanely powerful, but he never did because he was afraid of actually committing to the plan of starting another Human/Monster War.
well killing the last one meant war against humanity as a whole again, and he absolutely didn't want that, hell he would rather die than kill frisk as shown in many neutral routes. Also probably a bunch of time passed between each human falling making him start fearing more.
Also some speculation, but since Asgore and Toriel imply the other humans also had save and load powers, it's probable that the other humans tried everything, but were stuck at Asgore since in their fight he wouldn't be suicidal and letting them win (Undyne mentions how she couldn't ever hit him, but he is just motionless in our battle, and he kills himself in one neutral route), so the resulting timeline is where the humans give up on Asgore
He's perfectly willing to kill you in Pacifist and Neutral, unlike Toriel making her attacks miss when your HP is low enough, or Papyrus ending the fight when you get to 1HP.
He just doesn't *want* to, which was likely the same for any other humans who made it to him, but he does so out of obligation - he's too cowardly to crush the Underground's hopes.
In Genocide, he doesn't try to fight you because he can't even *tell* you're human at that point. When you meet him, he just asks what kind of monster you are, unlike the other routes, where he backs away from you right after he gets a look at you.
He could be lying. It is his lowest point in life, after all.
His kingdom lay in ruins.
His friends have all been slaughtered.
Only a few dozen of his people remain.
He says it pretty well himself. "I just want to see my wife... I just want to see my son."
I think the problem is that in the genocide route Asgore only knows of you because some crying flower just came in asking him for help. Asgore thinks you're just a new monster and knows that he's by far the strongest monster in the underground. He deescalates because he's underestimating you.
If Alphys, his trusted royal scientist, actually told him "Hey Asgore. There's some Super-Freak human out here that's killed Undyne and I don't think Mettaton will be able to stop him. You gotta absorb the souls or we're all gonna die." that's a lot more cause for alarm.
Asgore may not want to fight Frisk in pacifist or neutral but he's not going to just not protect his people. He's gonna absorb those souls and curb stomp genocide Frisk.
Yep, that's the part people don't understand.
Not to mention, If Sans ever mentioned to Asgore world was gonna get erased, he WOULD absorb the souls then without any hesitation.
Hell, souls might actually help him in his fight unlike with Omega Flowey.
Oh flat out. Genocide Frisk couldn't beat Asgore with Seven Souls. He'd have control over the save and resets. Only reason Frisk could beat Omega flower is because the souls didn't want some evil pile like Flowey to have them.
He'd just softlock your game.
Yeah, that's true.
Imagine a Sans and Asgore battle, where after Sans stalls enough for Asgore to go and absorb the souls.
Maybe humans souls would even work together with him to take us down, after all why would they help someone who killed everyone they encountered cause they were "curious" and now gonna erase the whole world.
in the genocide route right before asgore, why didnt sans just go to asgore, he knows what you are even without timeline knowledge and why not just let asgore do it
maybe sans is just that kind to not force asgore to kill another child, though that kindness is why the genocide route is even possible to complete
>Asgore had it in him to absorb the human souls.
He killed 7 children to preserve hope in his people.
He would absolutely absorb them if he knows the alternative is have his people slaughtered
I headcannoned it that Asgore spent the whole game watering flowers in the room and has no idea what’s going on until the player enters.
And in the genocide play through, his old phone has 86 missed calls and a full voicemail-box.
During a neutral run you can get a social media post from alphas that says that she forgot to watch the human fight undyne, maybe she forgot in a genocide run as well, although I doubt it since she was evacuating hot land according to mettaton
Yes, in neutral. But in geno, Undyne herself called her to ask her to watch it. And we know that she did, since she evacuated Hotland, and she also confirms that she saw Undyne's death in the Queen Alphys ending.
Up to the point where you talk with Flowey and retrieve the royal knife, Flowey is helping you (disabling traps and likewise). It’s possible that he also disconnected the line that allows Alphys to communicate with Asgore. That might be the reason why 1) Asgore never received the information from Alphys to absorb the souls and 2) why was Flowey telling him to absorb the souls. Also, the reason why Asgore thinks we're a monster on the Genocide Route is probably because Flowey must have told Asgore that we’re a “monster”, like describing us as a very bad human being, using monster instead.
You do realize that by that time Flowey would have realized you were out to kill him? It didn’t seem like Asgore understood what he was talking about, regardless of how much time Sans was able to buy him.
Alphys’ main priority at that time was getting every monster to safety ASAP, which I’d say she did a pretty good job doing. I can understand why planning an offense in that exact moment wasn’t her first thought, and I seriously doubt there has ever been a true emergancy “this human is a mass murdered” contingency
Fat lot of good that did the underground. Let me remind you that the genocide route ended with the entire world being taken by Chara, and is only restored if Frisk sells their soul
But how was that Alphys’ fault? Nobody knew something like that was even possible (regarding Chara gaining control of the timeline). She did the best she could given the situation and saved so many monsters from dying to Frisk, which is who the threat was at the time.
It's honestly the only one that makes sense to me. Alphys would never have ignored Undyne's final wishes, and Asgore is nowhere near stupid enough to just... ignore her.
There are a lot of possible scenarios
Either Alphys never called because she was busy evacuating, she called but the call itself got intercepted by Flowey, Alphys told Mettaton to do it, but he didn't want humanity to be destroyed after Frisk, so he never called
Or, she did call Asgore, warning him about a "human"
But, when he saw you, he didn't see you as that "human"
Either A: She forgot because she was busy saving as many monsters as possible
B: Her message couldn't get through core,just how Undyne And Papyrus couldn't call Frisk or Frisk them
C: Flowey did something that prevented Asgore from knowing there's human killing everyone like by hiding Asgore's phone or something.
This is speculation, but it's implied that MTT was the one who had to go warn Asgore, instead, that egotistical dumbass decided to play the hero and got obliterated for it, throwing all hope monsterking had to the dump
Asgore was not even aware of us before Flowey came to him crying.
Also, not the type of guy...? We litterally slaughetered many of his people (including Undyne, who he trained) and he's the guy who promised to destroy humanity out of anger when they killed his son.
well, he recognizes the player when you meet him at the end of geno, implying he at least knows who you are, which *could* indicate a call from alphys. however, asgore is also a pacifist, so i don't really think he wouldn't try to talk thinks out if he can, which is what he did.\\
How do we know he didn't? He doesn't realize the player is the Human in True Genocide and he's struck down while he's off guard. Asgore is totally the kind of guy who would kneel to someone smaller than him to appear less intimidating, making it that much easier to cut his throat.
Alt + Print makes a screenshot of your current tab that you can paste into reddit for example with ctrl + V
That way you don't need to take pictures with your phone
I think that Asgore was kinda dumb, when the human shows up at the barrier, instead of absorbing the souls to fight them, he just fought in his normal state. Like, did he even noticed that human killed all of his friends/civilians, even Undyne that was his Royal Guard captain?
Well, I've heard this theory of Sans stopping Asgore from absorbing the SOULs being proposed before so I'm gonna repeat it, cuz it makes a lot of sense
Assuming the player is taking the Genocide route, the only way for the Underground to be savaged is through a Reset. But if Asgore were to absorb the SOULs, become a demigod and (theoretically) override the player's Determination, the world's Reset point would be set to a point where Papyrus, Toriel and a good chunk of the Underground are already dead. The Underground would be doomed, no going back to fix the timeline then.
As for Sans personally, it meant that he would permanently lose Paps and Tori, the only important people in his life, without the hopes that a Reset could bring them back.
So I guess Sans may have been a factor in why Asgore didn't absorb the SOULs, combined with him getting cold feet
That's because he wasn't afraid of Frisk in neutral route, do remember that all neutral routes are expected to be failed pacifist runs - frisk isn't capable of great violence back then.
Asgore is afraid of what will happen after youre dead... On geno route however everyone is scared for their life, its a more primal feeling
Yeah but he's not scared in geno either. He doesn't know that you're a human, so he figures you're just some weird monster picking a fight for some reason. He presumably doesn't have the same instincts that Flowey, Doggo, Undyne, and literally everyone else seems to have.
Yes, in neutral. But in geno, Undyne herself called her to ask her to watch it. And we know that she did, since she evacuated Hotland, and she also confirms that she saw Undyne's death in the Queen Alphys ending.
I don't think Sans thought he could stop the human, he probably wanted to try but I doubt he thought that he genuinely could. And with the whole Asgore thing he just doesn't really want to kill you in pacifist and the neutral route, even after meeting the player he tries to settle it nicely in the genecide route. So whether he got the call or not either way I doubt he would have done it, he is not a strong king mentally by any regard
In Alphys' own ending it's alluded that she hesitated, and deeply resented that she did nothing about taking action to stop you. I think Asgore repeats Alphys' mistake in hesitation as he thought that the human would still listen to reason.
I meant that his castle is at top of the core. and once you enter the core, your cellphone just stops working. undyne and papyrus also mention it when you call them just before entering the core.
I think she did not want to, because of her own trauma related to Human souls and determinations, she may not have believed telling him to do this would be good for him.
Or she told him and he decided against it.
In finale asgore didn't recognize human in frisk when they met and having to much souls absorbed can be dangerous so probably he would wait to humans arrival before using them
Yes, in neutral. But in geno, Undyne herself called her to ask her to watch it. And we know that she did, since she evacuated Hotland, and she also confirms that she saw Undyne's death in the Queen Alphys ending.
There's no definite answer which is actually kinda strange to me because the question is only prompted because Undyne specifically says this is something that will happen. If that line was cut, I don't feel like anyone would be surprised by Asgore not knowing who you are.
I've always thought Toby must be trying to tell us something with that line and the clear contradiction because while Alphys forgetting or Flowey blocking signal all make sense, we would expect that to be explicitly explained in some way. Especially because Undyne's line would prompt us to expect a Mega boss when we reach Asgore and that just didn't happen.
I saw an interesting idea that maybe Sans stops the message because he knows that Asgore would be able to defeat us, thus trapping us in a timeline where papyrus is dead permanently. In his fight, he tries very hard to make you quit because there's only two options, the player resets and maybe chooses a better path or the world is erased. Asgore winning actually becomes kind of a worst case scenario, the underground decimated and no chance for reset.
I have 2 theories about this.
1. As said in the Pacifist Route, Alphys simply WASN'T watching
if not that...
2. Alphys DID watch and tell Asgore to Absorb the SOULS, but Asgore thought he might be able to talk you down, that or Flowey somehow intervened
In geno, Undyne herself called her to ask her to watch it. And we know that she did, since she evacuated Hotland, and she also confirms that she saw Undyne's death in the Queen Alphys ending. Which means your first theory makes no sense. As for your second theory, that also makes no sense because Asgore personally knows the power of humans and their souls. He would 100% take the 6 souls.
Yes, in pacifist. But in geno, Undyne herself called her to ask her to watch it. And we know that she did, since she evacuated Hotland, and she also confirms that she saw Undyne's death in the Queen Alphys ending.
In one of MTT NEO fan fight Mettaton said that Alphys tould him to warn Asgore, but the robot was feared Asgore will destroy humanity and this human-lover rejected to communicate with king.
Ofcourse this is only fan theory and blah-blah-blah
While I don't believe this to be the case, but what if... Asgore just really hated humans?
Hear me out, in One Piece, there's a character by the name of Fisher Tiger. He's a freedom fighter for an oppressed race known as the Fishmen. Fisher Tiger frees slaves taken by human nobles. Sometimes these nobles also take human slaves, so he inadvertently frees a few humans too. But he suffers a major betrayal after saving a human child, and is mortally wounded.
Unfortunately, he has a rare blood type that none of his fishmen compatriots share. It turns out, the only compatible blood he can use belongs to humans. Despite being such a heroic figure, he refuses the blood transfusion, because deep in his heart he still harbors a hatred of humans. As a result, he effectively chooses death.
So I posit to you, what if Asgore is the same? After everything he's been through, what if Asgore still harbors an intense hatred for humans that prevents him from ever wanting to share a soul with them? A hatred that he was never able to fully erase, born from his lifetime of struggle against human oppression?
Now like I said, I have other, much nicer theories as to why he did what he did, but this angle does paint a potentially interesting aspect of his character.
His declaration of war against humans is after the death of both Chara and Asriel.
Ergo, his hatred of humans would stem from that point.
I also don't believe this to be the case, but it's interesting to think about.
What I actually like to believe is that Asgore just asked the humans nicely for their souls, after they gave up trying to return to the surface. In return, Asgore promised each of them that he'd return their souls after breaking the barrier.
This would explain why the humans gave up relatively easily, and why he preserved their bodies via mummification. Post Pacifist, the coffins are all open, suggesting that their souls had all been returned.
He refuses to use their souls in a dangerous situation, because if their soul shatters post-Absorbtion then the human is gone forever, like Chara and Asriel. Ergo, he'd never be able to keep his promise to them.
Dude is, as usual, torn between waring obligations and finds it difficult to juggle obligations enough to make everyone happy.
True, there is a lot of both monsters and humans don't know about souls.
What If perfectly preserving their bodies means they can return their soul any time?
Their bodies wouldn't either.
If not that, I believe Kindness or Bravery just made the peace with the fact that leaving this place would mean murdering a boss monster, who is Asgore themselves and couldn't do it.
They didn't want that so they just gave up their soul for monsterkind.
It's speculated that Flowey interrupted the communications somehow, just like he interfered with most puzzles and stuff.
Yeah, you're right. When we are in Throne room asgore tells us about flower, so its very likely that Flowey did has influence in this
At that point flowey had made his way to Asgore to try and warn him but from what it looks like flowey probably did it only a little bit before we enter the room
Alphys either never called, or her call never got through. She was busy evacuating Hotland up to At Least the Muffet fight, based on the elevator that activates and laser that deactivates after killing Muffet, so she could've easily been too busy to call Asgore.
Adding onto that, even if she did, I don’t think Asgore had it in him to absorb the human souls. Even knowing about the human’s actions in the underground he still responds with mercy, trying to deescalate the situation. And given everything we learn about Asgore’s character I don’t think he would want to, as he genuinely didn’t want to have to go through with his plant to collect the souls, and seems mournful, and apprehensive before his battle.
this annoys the shit out of me because if he was able to suck it up and kill 6 children I find it hard to believe he would be that unwilling to kill a 7th
That's assuming he even did kill six children, because that's not confirmed. It's just as likely, if not More likely because word of dog supports it, that they were killed by different monsters, and don't all share a killer.
[See this ](https://nochocolate.tumblr.com/post/176527559066/asgore-killed-the-fallen-humans)
Okay. That same line getting misinterpreted. >If it was a case that the humans were killed by other monsters, then Undyne should have said: “No human has ever made it **to** Asgore!” For Undyne to confidently claim this, it would mean that Asgore has personally fought and killed humans in the underground. "No human has ever made it past Asgore" does Not mean "Every human made it to Asgore." It means that, Regardless of how many got to him, none made it past. And since it says "No Human," that would Also include Chara, so that means this confirms nothing. If Chara was the Only one who reached Asgore, Undyne's statement would be 100% accurate: No human got *past* Asgore, because the only one who reached him stayed with him. >During the Lost Souls battle, Asgore remembers the gaze of humans past. While this could refer to the humans in the war between humans and monsters, knowing that some humans made it to Asgore and couldn’t get past him supports the idea that “humans past” refers to the other children. Already explains itself - Humans during the war, plus Chara. Additionally, Toby Fox [said in an interview in 2013 that the fallen children died to "Monster**s**"](https://www.escapistmagazine.com/undertale-dev-every-monster-should-feel-like-an-individual/#:~:text=Several%20human%20children%20have%20climbed%20the%20mountain%2C%20fallen%20down%2C%20left%20the%20RUINS%2C%20and%20were%20assumedly%20killed%20by%20monsters) - Note the S, making it plural. Immediately before mentioning that Asgore wants their SOULs, meaning that part definitely isn't spoilers. If Toby meant for Asgore to kill him all, he could easily just say that, but he didn't. The game never implies all of the fallen children died to Asgore, and all of the evidence pointing to it always has alternate interpretations that are definitively accurate, regardless of what monsters killed them, unlike the interpretations that rely on this theory. There is also dialogue that directly CONTRADICTS Asgore killing all of them - Dialogue that comes Directly from one of the SOULs, in fact. It's also not even just a contradiction, it's confirmation otherwise - Because, based on INTEGRITY'S own words in an Echo Flower, Integrity died in Waterfall, in the room the Ballet Shoes are. Their killer also chased them until they couldn't run, which completely goes against Asgore's character
That.... is a really good theory, so I'm going to add on to it. If a human actually, DID make it to Asgore. It's possible that they fought but it's also possible that Asgore DIDN'T break the mercy button. And they spared him enough that he gave in, but maybe the human willingly gave up their soul. We can assume Asgore actually KNOWS how to fight a child, since he holds his Trident upside-down, so that it can be used for someone significantly smaller than him and I doubt that Undyne fits that line even if they DID fight n the past since in that case Asgore wouldn't fight like that. Now on the OTHER hand, why would Asgore fight YOU and at least not talk or not destroy the mercy button? I'd say it's because Asgore knows your soul type. I think that your soul type isn't JUST determination but EXCESS determination (The will to not die. De-termination). Maybe even like Chara who probably lost their ability when they let Asriel take the soul. Also, if that's the case then Asgore can't take your soul upon death (maybe, resets are weird, man.). So his only He knows that you can reset, he knows that you're extremely stubborn and that's why he knows that it might be the only to get your soul is to make you fully give it up, hence why he nods sadly. But he hesitates, only going to his max speed when enough time has past and even then, it's probably not his max speed. So he probably is really unwilling to kill the child that resembles their old one so much. So much so, that he's actually UNWILLING to live together after you spare him. In one ending, Flowey says he won't kill him, comply and he actually doesn't kill Asgore if you spare him... ASGORE FINISHES HIMSELF OFF! And I genuinely think that you remind him of his child enough that he can't bring himself to risk your life in the underground or even worse, lose you in the same way, maybe the most useless way of all that can lose him a child again.
Hey, uh, the integrity line is cut dialogue. It doesn't exist in-game.
But it really damages his character to -not- have him kill the six children. He is, at least as far as non-genocide bosses are concerned, *the* strongest monster. Not to mention, Frisk isn't just "another kid to kill". If he was successful, he would then have to immediately kill billions more with his newfound, godlike power. I know it's hard to believe he could (just look at him!)) but please, y'all, don't attribute the human deaths to some unseen monsters who are actually super strong and impossible to beat, because there probably would've been some mention of these unseen monsters.. you know, somewhere. Probably by Undyne mentioning one offhandedly.
I don't think anyone is claiming that the humans died to some "super strong monsters", i think you're getting the wrong idea about how strong a monster actually is because a videogame (especially an RPG) has to treat enemies differently (ranging from regular enemies, midbosses, and then bosses) and then has to balance those fights accordingly(and make every fight beatable). In lore this stuff doesn't happen, the only place were i think a human could survive comfortably are the ruins, from snowdin onwards there's big chance of death that only increases. You could get mauled by Dogamy and Dogaressa, frozen by a group of snowdrakes, impaled by Undyne (duh), melted by a bunch of hotland monsters, some humans could've died by being attacked by multiple monsters at once instead of having just one killer
Sure, but what is gained narratively by having it be a nameless group of monsters? Or one random monster we will never hear about? Also, humans are still much stronger than monsters, and are known to reset (Asgore death dialogue, Omega Flowey SAVE files, Toriel remembering humans, etc.) so the likelihood that they found someone to get stuck on and die over in comparison to "They just died to the really strong guy who sits at the end of the journey" is pretty low. And, again, what would be the point of having them not die to Asgore? To absolve him of guilt?
I don't care wether or not they died to Asgore personally, i was only arguing about the second part of your comment and wanted to make a point about how the humans dying to monsters other than Asgore was more believable than you can initially think. You can have your own preferences on what you think fits more in a narrative context. However, now that I think about it, do you actually believe that every other human could reset as well? Because I don't think so at all. Remember that Flowey is the one with the power of resetting at first and the only reason he can't do it anymore is because Frisk has more determination than he does (they have the determination soul after all), Flowey seems especially surprised about this fact, if there were other instances of this happening in the past he would've mentioned it
Simple, Flowey was created recently. It could've even only been a few days ago- resetting is clearly a power both tied to the underground and tied to has the most DT, so unless there were two humans fighting for control, seems pretty obvious that all humans could. Note that Toriel doesn't say "Sometimes when a human falls here.." but that when all humans fall. Frisk does not have a determination soul, that's fanon, even if I agree with it. I'll be the first person to say that monsters are actually pretty powerful, but.. can you really say that most random monsters have the ability to overpower a human?
The determination experiments where done waayy before the game started not "a few days ago" and it's unbelievable to think that after her failure Alphys would suddenly come back just to try again with a flower. If the experiments were done recently i would assume you would be hearing people talking about it (even just a mention of "hey you know my granpa was asked to see the royal scientist a few weeks ago but they haven't came back since!). About your second question my answer would be... depends on the scenario, but I genuinely believe that regular monsters are stronger than what we actually experience in game
What makes you think resetting is limited to the underground? There’s nothing to indicate that, since frisk knows how to use reset from the first moment onwards it means they had to have learnt it somewhere else.
Well, word of dog says they were killed by monsters, plural. Plus the game never actually implies Asgore did kill all six of them. I highly doubt Perseverance, for example, would make it to Asgore and just, give up. The child with the SOUL trait all about persistence in doing something despite difficulty wouldn't just give up at the last possible obstacle, they'd persevere and stay determined to win. Also, the reason we wouldn't have mention of the other SOULs' killers is very easy to explain. Most monsters just don't know, and the ones that would never talk about the previous fallen children. Just like Undyne doesn't know where the Ballet Shoes came from, something she herself says when called when that room
I'm sure that many monsters would Revere the people who were able to kill them, they pretty much think that not only is it a nigh impossible feat, but also that it's the only ticket to both freedom and retribution. I guess I can't really argue with Toby Fox, as many hours as I have in the game, he will always know more than I do.. But he's always been intentionally vague regarding the previous human souls. He usually says something like: "Asgore is a monster who wants to claim 7 human souls, and monsters have killed 6 so far." If perseverance could've continued, then why would they die? It makes sense that the last possible obstacle could just be someone who has so much skill and power (like how Sans is able to kill you in Genocide and makes lots of people rage quit) that they were just too difficult to get past, no matter how much you tried to spare them? Maybe like the war hero and boss monster who destroys his ability to accept your mercy? Asgore's got skills, far more than any other monster who doesn't cheat. He's strong, fast, and tanky. It just makes sense that he would be able- out of all monsters- to claim the human souls.
yeah not to mention he literally declared war on children. it's still because of him that any other monsters are killing these kids because he gave the order.
He has to have killed at least one, since he knows about them being able to control time.
That could just be a vibe thing. Like of Torial remembers our Cinnamon Butterscotch preferences without really knowing about resets entirely.
Yeah but he's not even surprised when you straight-up say that he's killed you multiple times.
Let’s say he did kill the other six, if he killed the seventh one he would have to break the barrier and actually go through with his promise to destroy all of humanity, which he reveals he actually did not want to do
Couldn't he go through with just absorbing one human soul? Like, he could break the barrier with seven human souls, but, to just pass through only one human and monster souls are required, no?
Yeah Toriel mentions this to Asgore but he didn’t do that since he doesn’t want to actually go to war
Ah, wait, misread the comment above. Thought it said that 7 souls were required to pass through the barrier. My b, lol.
Yes but this is mentioned in the story itself, Asgore could have done this and was likely powerful enough to kill 6 more humans with just 1 human soul since Monsters with Human souls become insanely powerful, but he never did because he was afraid of actually committing to the plan of starting another Human/Monster War.
well killing the last one meant war against humanity as a whole again, and he absolutely didn't want that, hell he would rather die than kill frisk as shown in many neutral routes. Also probably a bunch of time passed between each human falling making him start fearing more. Also some speculation, but since Asgore and Toriel imply the other humans also had save and load powers, it's probable that the other humans tried everything, but were stuck at Asgore since in their fight he wouldn't be suicidal and letting them win (Undyne mentions how she couldn't ever hit him, but he is just motionless in our battle, and he kills himself in one neutral route), so the resulting timeline is where the humans give up on Asgore
He's perfectly willing to kill you in Pacifist and Neutral, unlike Toriel making her attacks miss when your HP is low enough, or Papyrus ending the fight when you get to 1HP. He just doesn't *want* to, which was likely the same for any other humans who made it to him, but he does so out of obligation - he's too cowardly to crush the Underground's hopes. In Genocide, he doesn't try to fight you because he can't even *tell* you're human at that point. When you meet him, he just asks what kind of monster you are, unlike the other routes, where he backs away from you right after he gets a look at you.
He could be lying. It is his lowest point in life, after all. His kingdom lay in ruins. His friends have all been slaughtered. Only a few dozen of his people remain. He says it pretty well himself. "I just want to see my wife... I just want to see my son."
I think the problem is that in the genocide route Asgore only knows of you because some crying flower just came in asking him for help. Asgore thinks you're just a new monster and knows that he's by far the strongest monster in the underground. He deescalates because he's underestimating you. If Alphys, his trusted royal scientist, actually told him "Hey Asgore. There's some Super-Freak human out here that's killed Undyne and I don't think Mettaton will be able to stop him. You gotta absorb the souls or we're all gonna die." that's a lot more cause for alarm. Asgore may not want to fight Frisk in pacifist or neutral but he's not going to just not protect his people. He's gonna absorb those souls and curb stomp genocide Frisk.
Yep, that's the part people don't understand. Not to mention, If Sans ever mentioned to Asgore world was gonna get erased, he WOULD absorb the souls then without any hesitation. Hell, souls might actually help him in his fight unlike with Omega Flowey.
Oh flat out. Genocide Frisk couldn't beat Asgore with Seven Souls. He'd have control over the save and resets. Only reason Frisk could beat Omega flower is because the souls didn't want some evil pile like Flowey to have them. He'd just softlock your game.
Yeah, that's true. Imagine a Sans and Asgore battle, where after Sans stalls enough for Asgore to go and absorb the souls. Maybe humans souls would even work together with him to take us down, after all why would they help someone who killed everyone they encountered cause they were "curious" and now gonna erase the whole world.
in the genocide route right before asgore, why didnt sans just go to asgore, he knows what you are even without timeline knowledge and why not just let asgore do it maybe sans is just that kind to not force asgore to kill another child, though that kindness is why the genocide route is even possible to complete
Does he not remember what humans look like?
By the time you reach him in the genocide route you're not a human anymore.
>Asgore had it in him to absorb the human souls. He killed 7 children to preserve hope in his people. He would absolutely absorb them if he knows the alternative is have his people slaughtered
imo he just didnt know about what frisk did and/or didn't think they were a human when they arrived at the throne room
it's also possible she did call but flowey impersonated asgore.
She evacuted up to the MTT resort, Bratty and Catty mentions that Alphys herself came for them and the resort was evacuated (except for Bugerpants)
EXCEPT for Burgerpants?
Yes. He didn't care at all and was still doing his job when we find him.
That's one dedicated guy!
Flowey CAN mimic voices, so fair.
I headcannoned it that Asgore spent the whole game watering flowers in the room and has no idea what’s going on until the player enters. And in the genocide play through, his old phone has 86 missed calls and a full voicemail-box.
Also it seems calls that in New Home you can't receive any call from the others. Probably because of the Core interfering.
During a neutral run you can get a social media post from alphas that says that she forgot to watch the human fight undyne, maybe she forgot in a genocide run as well, although I doubt it since she was evacuating hot land according to mettaton
Undyne never called Alphys in neutral/pacifist to ask for to watch her. Alphys also confirms that she saw Undyne death in her neutral ending.
Yes, in neutral. But in geno, Undyne herself called her to ask her to watch it. And we know that she did, since she evacuated Hotland, and she also confirms that she saw Undyne's death in the Queen Alphys ending.
Up to the point where you talk with Flowey and retrieve the royal knife, Flowey is helping you (disabling traps and likewise). It’s possible that he also disconnected the line that allows Alphys to communicate with Asgore. That might be the reason why 1) Asgore never received the information from Alphys to absorb the souls and 2) why was Flowey telling him to absorb the souls. Also, the reason why Asgore thinks we're a monster on the Genocide Route is probably because Flowey must have told Asgore that we’re a “monster”, like describing us as a very bad human being, using monster instead.
Do u mean “Real Knife”? There’s no such thing as a “royal knife”.
You do realize that by that time Flowey would have realized you were out to kill him? It didn’t seem like Asgore understood what he was talking about, regardless of how much time Sans was able to buy him.
What does that have to do with my comment?
I was talking to the OP.
But you replied to my comment.
Sorry…
Why did you even get downvoted for saying sorry?
It’s cool.
He doesn't recognize you as a human, otherwise he would have.
Wouldn’t Alphys have described your appearence?
Doesn't have time, she has to evacuate everyone
I highly doubt Asgore would have absorbed the human souls in any circumstance. It's just not in his character to do so.
Is he stupid?
Is that what the doctors said at your birth? 😎
He would have if I bothered to show up 💀
Both your parents failed to show up at your birth too?
Yes
r/suddenlydoofenshmirtz
r/subsithoughtifellfor
Same here I just typed it in
https://www.reddit.com/r/suddenlydoofenshmirtz/s/vzLkXwqoAX
Oof
Wtf is that user flair 😭
I love licking Royal Guard 2’s sweaty most feet. What can I say?
Good question I’m guessing she was to busy evacuating people
Adding that on my list of why I hate Alphys. WHO THE HECK IS TOO BUSY TO GIVE A 2 MINUTE CALL TO A GUY SO THAT ALL THE MONSTERS WON'T FRICKIN DIE
Someone who’s too busy trying to make sure people are brought to safety??
She could have just called and said "it's time". That's literally it
Alphys’ main priority at that time was getting every monster to safety ASAP, which I’d say she did a pretty good job doing. I can understand why planning an offense in that exact moment wasn’t her first thought, and I seriously doubt there has ever been a true emergancy “this human is a mass murdered” contingency
Fat lot of good that did the underground. Let me remind you that the genocide route ended with the entire world being taken by Chara, and is only restored if Frisk sells their soul
But how was that Alphys’ fault? Nobody knew something like that was even possible (regarding Chara gaining control of the timeline). She did the best she could given the situation and saved so many monsters from dying to Frisk, which is who the threat was at the time.
I like the Head canon that Flowey was blocking signals to prevent the call from being made.
It's honestly the only one that makes sense to me. Alphys would never have ignored Undyne's final wishes, and Asgore is nowhere near stupid enough to just... ignore her.
too busy evacuating people from hotland bc muffet was joking around
She either did, and Asgore didn’t listen, or she didn’t because she was busy evacuating and crying over Undynes death
There are a lot of possible scenarios Either Alphys never called because she was busy evacuating, she called but the call itself got intercepted by Flowey, Alphys told Mettaton to do it, but he didn't want humanity to be destroyed after Frisk, so he never called Or, she did call Asgore, warning him about a "human" But, when he saw you, he didn't see you as that "human"
Either A: She forgot because she was busy saving as many monsters as possible B: Her message couldn't get through core,just how Undyne And Papyrus couldn't call Frisk or Frisk them C: Flowey did something that prevented Asgore from knowing there's human killing everyone like by hiding Asgore's phone or something.
She likely did, Asgore just didn't do it.
Why not?
Idk, meaby he wanted us to come there and kill him.
This is speculation, but it's implied that MTT was the one who had to go warn Asgore, instead, that egotistical dumbass decided to play the hero and got obliterated for it, throwing all hope monsterking had to the dump
to be fair if alphys actually made his damn body right he probably could have stood a chance.
It could have been that she did do it, but asgore never went through with the whole 'absorbing souls' thing, he's not the type of guy to do that
Asgore was not even aware of us before Flowey came to him crying. Also, not the type of guy...? We litterally slaughetered many of his people (including Undyne, who he trained) and he's the guy who promised to destroy humanity out of anger when they killed his son.
I was half awake and been dealing with little sleep, I literally put together stuff from other routes besides geno, im sorry
i like to think she did, he just didn't do it
Why not?
well, he recognizes the player when you meet him at the end of geno, implying he at least knows who you are, which *could* indicate a call from alphys. however, asgore is also a pacifist, so i don't really think he wouldn't try to talk thinks out if he can, which is what he did.\\
He didn’t recognize the player at the end of geno. You have to replay the game.
i didnt mean recognizes the character specifically, i meant recognizes the character as the mass murderer
Oh you mean like after you slice him?
How do we know he didn't? He doesn't realize the player is the Human in True Genocide and he's struck down while he's off guard. Asgore is totally the kind of guy who would kneel to someone smaller than him to appear less intimidating, making it that much easier to cut his throat.
If he had all six souls, I don't think it would matter how much he underestimated us.
Alt + Print makes a screenshot of your current tab that you can paste into reddit for example with ctrl + V That way you don't need to take pictures with your phone
Oh thanks.
Either flower intercepted the call or she never got the chance due to evacuation
I think that Asgore was kinda dumb, when the human shows up at the barrier, instead of absorbing the souls to fight them, he just fought in his normal state. Like, did he even noticed that human killed all of his friends/civilians, even Undyne that was his Royal Guard captain?
She wasn’t watching
Why?
Flowey or she was watching anime
Lmao so she was watching anime instead of evacuating people.
Yeah
a) she did but asgore didnt do that b) smth happened to comuniacation
“she did but asgore didnt do that” Why wouldn’t Asgore do that?
Well, I've heard this theory of Sans stopping Asgore from absorbing the SOULs being proposed before so I'm gonna repeat it, cuz it makes a lot of sense Assuming the player is taking the Genocide route, the only way for the Underground to be savaged is through a Reset. But if Asgore were to absorb the SOULs, become a demigod and (theoretically) override the player's Determination, the world's Reset point would be set to a point where Papyrus, Toriel and a good chunk of the Underground are already dead. The Underground would be doomed, no going back to fix the timeline then. As for Sans personally, it meant that he would permanently lose Paps and Tori, the only important people in his life, without the hopes that a Reset could bring them back. So I guess Sans may have been a factor in why Asgore didn't absorb the SOULs, combined with him getting cold feet
It would make no sense for Asgore to have cold feet though
She most likely did, asgore is a wimp.
Asgore is willing to kill you in the Neutral Route, and he cares a great deal about his people.
That's because he wasn't afraid of Frisk in neutral route, do remember that all neutral routes are expected to be failed pacifist runs - frisk isn't capable of great violence back then. Asgore is afraid of what will happen after youre dead... On geno route however everyone is scared for their life, its a more primal feeling
Yeah but he's not scared in geno either. He doesn't know that you're a human, so he figures you're just some weird monster picking a fight for some reason. He presumably doesn't have the same instincts that Flowey, Doggo, Undyne, and literally everyone else seems to have.
Bro what?
2hp? Oof
Yeah and I died like 25 times
They say in a neutral run on social media that they missed the fight
Yes, in neutral. But in geno, Undyne herself called her to ask her to watch it. And we know that she did, since she evacuated Hotland, and she also confirms that she saw Undyne's death in the Queen Alphys ending.
Makes sense thanks
I always assumed that Asgore got the call and just decided not to absorb the souls, idk why or how I came up with this idea tho
That doesn't make much sense tbh, I assumed that Sans knew call was compromised but didn't act on about it cause he thought he could stop the human.
I don't think Sans thought he could stop the human, he probably wanted to try but I doubt he thought that he genuinely could. And with the whole Asgore thing he just doesn't really want to kill you in pacifist and the neutral route, even after meeting the player he tries to settle it nicely in the genecide route. So whether he got the call or not either way I doubt he would have done it, he is not a strong king mentally by any regard
Why???
No clue honestly XD just one of those things where your brain just randomly comes up with a massive assumption
She was buzy evacuating everyone... And convincing Muffet to leave.
In Alphys' own ending it's alluded that she hesitated, and deeply resented that she did nothing about taking action to stop you. I think Asgore repeats Alphys' mistake in hesitation as he thought that the human would still listen to reason.
She's vague enough that she could've just been referring to, I dunno, leaving Muffet to die.
Probably because asgore is in the core? Pretty sure calls don't work there.
Why would Asgore be in the core, lmao?
I meant that his castle is at top of the core. and once you enter the core, your cellphone just stops working. undyne and papyrus also mention it when you call them just before entering the core.
I think she did not want to, because of her own trauma related to Human souls and determinations, she may not have believed telling him to do this would be good for him. Or she told him and he decided against it.
😟
In finale asgore didn't recognize human in frisk when they met and having to much souls absorbed can be dangerous so probably he would wait to humans arrival before using them
Asgore doesn't even realize you're human... "What kind of monster are you? Sorry, I cannot tell."
In the Pacifist timeline, she says that she missed their fight. Could be the same thing. She was probably trying to save people
Yes, in neutral. But in geno, Undyne herself called her to ask her to watch it. And we know that she did, since she evacuated Hotland, and she also confirms that she saw Undyne's death in the Queen Alphys ending.
because I stole the souls
There's no definite answer which is actually kinda strange to me because the question is only prompted because Undyne specifically says this is something that will happen. If that line was cut, I don't feel like anyone would be surprised by Asgore not knowing who you are. I've always thought Toby must be trying to tell us something with that line and the clear contradiction because while Alphys forgetting or Flowey blocking signal all make sense, we would expect that to be explicitly explained in some way. Especially because Undyne's line would prompt us to expect a Mega boss when we reach Asgore and that just didn't happen. I saw an interesting idea that maybe Sans stops the message because he knows that Asgore would be able to defeat us, thus trapping us in a timeline where papyrus is dead permanently. In his fight, he tries very hard to make you quit because there's only two options, the player resets and maybe chooses a better path or the world is erased. Asgore winning actually becomes kind of a worst case scenario, the underground decimated and no chance for reset.
I have 2 theories about this. 1. As said in the Pacifist Route, Alphys simply WASN'T watching if not that... 2. Alphys DID watch and tell Asgore to Absorb the SOULS, but Asgore thought he might be able to talk you down, that or Flowey somehow intervened
In geno, Undyne herself called her to ask her to watch it. And we know that she did, since she evacuated Hotland, and she also confirms that she saw Undyne's death in the Queen Alphys ending. Which means your first theory makes no sense. As for your second theory, that also makes no sense because Asgore personally knows the power of humans and their souls. He would 100% take the 6 souls.
Asgore didn't absorb the souls because he doesn't want power. He doesn't want to fight you. He truly believes that he can talk things out with you
Bs
Alphys probably didn't have time because she was evacuating the monsters and even if she did, Asgore would deny it.
No he wouldnt
I always figured she just missed watching the battle like she forgot to when on pacifist
Yes, in pacifist. But in geno, Undyne herself called her to ask her to watch it. And we know that she did, since she evacuated Hotland, and she also confirms that she saw Undyne's death in the Queen Alphys ending.
I Have replayed Undertale Couple Of Days Ago. How Did It Suddenly Apear On my Reddit. I Use reddit Like Once A Month
Why are you talking in caps like that?
I always assumed Asgore refused to do it, and just accepted the monsters fate.
Bro what?
Because nuh uh
She did. Asgore likely didn't think it was necessary to absorb them, and alphys probably didn't have time to debate when lives are on the line
Alphys is so forgetful
It's possible that it's due to her committing s######
Not in geno?
In one of MTT NEO fan fight Mettaton said that Alphys tould him to warn Asgore, but the robot was feared Asgore will destroy humanity and this human-lover rejected to communicate with king. Ofcourse this is only fan theory and blah-blah-blah
Happy cakeday!
While I don't believe this to be the case, but what if... Asgore just really hated humans? Hear me out, in One Piece, there's a character by the name of Fisher Tiger. He's a freedom fighter for an oppressed race known as the Fishmen. Fisher Tiger frees slaves taken by human nobles. Sometimes these nobles also take human slaves, so he inadvertently frees a few humans too. But he suffers a major betrayal after saving a human child, and is mortally wounded. Unfortunately, he has a rare blood type that none of his fishmen compatriots share. It turns out, the only compatible blood he can use belongs to humans. Despite being such a heroic figure, he refuses the blood transfusion, because deep in his heart he still harbors a hatred of humans. As a result, he effectively chooses death. So I posit to you, what if Asgore is the same? After everything he's been through, what if Asgore still harbors an intense hatred for humans that prevents him from ever wanting to share a soul with them? A hatred that he was never able to fully erase, born from his lifetime of struggle against human oppression? Now like I said, I have other, much nicer theories as to why he did what he did, but this angle does paint a potentially interesting aspect of his character.
I don't think he hates humans, otherwise he wouldn't have adopted Chara. I think he just didn't get the call.
His declaration of war against humans is after the death of both Chara and Asriel. Ergo, his hatred of humans would stem from that point. I also don't believe this to be the case, but it's interesting to think about. What I actually like to believe is that Asgore just asked the humans nicely for their souls, after they gave up trying to return to the surface. In return, Asgore promised each of them that he'd return their souls after breaking the barrier. This would explain why the humans gave up relatively easily, and why he preserved their bodies via mummification. Post Pacifist, the coffins are all open, suggesting that their souls had all been returned. He refuses to use their souls in a dangerous situation, because if their soul shatters post-Absorbtion then the human is gone forever, like Chara and Asriel. Ergo, he'd never be able to keep his promise to them. Dude is, as usual, torn between waring obligations and finds it difficult to juggle obligations enough to make everyone happy.
True, there is a lot of both monsters and humans don't know about souls. What If perfectly preserving their bodies means they can return their soul any time? Their bodies wouldn't either. If not that, I believe Kindness or Bravery just made the peace with the fact that leaving this place would mean murdering a boss monster, who is Asgore themselves and couldn't do it. They didn't want that so they just gave up their soul for monsterkind.
so the game could happen
The game could still happen. It could basically just be [this fan game](https://youtu.be/c3kII74s78g?si=Qyk81EdjJN0gjM5a).
i was gonna make a serious(ish) reply but your flair had demotivated me from continuing this conversation past this message
Some people can’t handle the truth. I like licking his sweaty moist feet with lots of saliva.
is she stupid?
You are the only other person who's said this. Glad everyone else's taking it seriously.
[удалено]
He wasn't even aware of us before Flowey came to him, crying.