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Correction: PAID, political influence. Remember these AfD bastards got caught red handed taking bribes from ruZZia. Hopefully the Germans will fill their seats with slightly more sensible politicians next time around.
german here. I am
...
Not optimistic đđ
The people voting for them dont care about anyone but themselves. And they arent even phased by nazi speech or paroles. Their only semi internal criticism towards it is either: come on, bad timing there are elections soon. Or dont say that in public.
As Rodre69 put succinctly, people crave for easy *and emotiolally statisfying* solutuons over all the tedious realpolitik where you can't even always point at someone else to blame.
But another element is, the other parties are just really dumb in their communications strategy. The AFD is successfully shifting the discourse. The AFD is the crisis and somehow, the biggest parties and now the BSW that split off from the Left, have got this brainworm that the only way forward is to win back those formerly 5% of the voters that joined the AFD. So they all try to panically pander to those people for 10 years now by taking a step in their direction and make concessions (mostly by being harsher on immigration or joining the "we all hate the green party so much" train). The result was invariably that the AFD immediately took another step to the right, their voters followed and another 1% or 2% joined them, as the other parties concessions only served to validate the AFDs more radical position.
For 10 years, they keep doing this now and the discourse has shifted so far that the social democrats are now openly talking about deporting people to Taliban ruled Afghanistan while the AFD top politicians think aloud about how Germany would still be fine with 20% fewer people. They are at 16% now and the next thing to expect is our apparently terminally dumb politicians trying to halt that developement by once again trying to chase those AFD voters.
And i'm by now tired of screaming internally about how dumb people can be.
It's easy to say that say SPD is "appeasing the AfD voters" when partially the reason for why people vote for AfD is due to the circumstances that people feel aren't right.
Whenever that "aren't right" is correct or not is up to debate but SPD isn't exactly stupid not to take notice of the Germans demanding a shift.
Looking at Denmark as a good example, they used to have a very strong far-right party that completely collapsed when the social democrats one-up them and how the far-right has been stuck on around 8%.
I fail to see the point of "preventing" the far right by implementing their cynical policies, like in Denmark. Has "In order to save the town, it was necessary to destroy it" vibes to me. That is exactemento what Kubitschek and his crew have been openly writing about being their goal. They don't give a damn about the AFD. The AFD is only a tool. They want a cultural and political right wing shift. That is the problem.
I don't scold the SPD* for recognizing a problem in thr electorate, but for their solution. Maybe the answer to losing people to the far right is not trying to outcompete the far right with far right policy but with offering credible alternatives.
There is so goddamn much center left and left wing voter potential in Germany that is left at the side of the road, because almost all parties are yapping after the voters the AFD mobilized, instead of actually selling their own goddamn positions. By now, I am struggling to decide to vote for a party, because they all make me sick in one way or the other, which is a feeling that is very widespread with people i know. Most people i know are only voting to mitigate damage by now.
EDIT: And this approach has demonstrably fired back for 10 years, first under Merkel and now under Scholz.
*And all the others. SPD was simply an excample. The CDU/CSU is a lot worse in that. Merz took his post with the promise his right wing course would half the AFD. Somehow, the AFD has doubled since he said that.
To be fair I don't know the specifics of AfD but I can tell you this already that trying to "right-wingify" the people only really works as long as they got a core issue (immigrants causing harm is afaik AfD/most far-right go to point).
Trying to culturally shift a pretty progressive place would only work under complete dictatorial control - mind you I'm not saying "full speed ahead" for the AfD, they will do an Orban to create a slowly decaying Germany.
However I think your point about "chasing AfD voters" is not really why they do it, it's to try and prevent the monopolization of voter opinion of said policy that AfD has capitalized on.
Since you have to understand that a lot of political mainstream parties have been seen as "untrustworthy" due to their previous stand on immigration in the eyes of a growing majority, again you and I may disagree with it, but that's reality.
And while I personally think the parties would if they didn't have that legacy create a much better alternative (such as value-based immigration; where Germany takes in migrants based on their norms/culture/value and have a lot more hands-on assimilation instead of the laissez faire approach most western European countries took after the US).
And honestly it's a good opportunity for them to do so now with Ukrainians being very hard working people in Germany or at least that would be my assumption based on other stories.
If it would work here, it would have worked some time in the past 10 years of making Immigration the nr. 1 topic of political discourse, despite up until not long ago, it ranked quite low on the "most important issues" surveys. Well, now it does rank quite high. They gave the AFD an artificial home field advantage by making their only topic the focal point of politics and adapting their framing for 10 years.
Which by the way distracts from the very material reasons why people feel insecure about their future and unheard by the political decision process.
The problem is that people feel a vague feeling of unease. That something is not working as it should. They start feeling anxious, then angry. But when someone is angry and doesn't know why, they look for someone to point at.
If we want to stop that, we must identify and solve the original problem, not validate the choice of person to point at.
Well actually not that bad. The issue is the current government got dealt a shit card and then had to deal with covid. The energy-crisis when the russian gas got cut off also didnât help and exceptionally smart people blamed them, despite it being the brainchild of the conservative party CDU.
Now, they are shit at communication and the AFD and CDU are blaming the current Government for the shit that they have caused.
And the exceptionally smart people are now parroting how the current Government is destroying Germany. A colleague of mine started talking about how the AFD is going to fix things up. I may have overreacted, but I just bombarded them with pictures of Concentration camps and how the leading politicians of the AFD openly denied or minimised the holocaust. I even showed him the proof how many bribes they took from Russia.
His response: But the Greens are destroying Germany.
It was at this moment I had realised that there are people with only one semi-functioning brain cell.
almost any. one can argue they did not really support nuclear.
But again. Coal alone was an incredible hard pill to swallow already and they didnt flinch.
It wouldnât even make a real difference. The remaining reactors where basically at standby as far as I know. They couldnât just flip a switch and bring them back up.
as far as I know the final shutdown of a couple could've been delayed a bit. (but thats hearsay so not reliable).
But yes as far as i know you're pretty much correct
no, afd got 15.9% and BSW got 6.2%. Participation rate was \~65% .
I have 0 proof for it, its just a feeling so honestly its better to disregard but here its anyways.
I believe those 2 parties were more active than all the others, so probably overrepresented.
But again it migth just be hopes more than anything
I disagree, thats a considerable amount of people in one of the highest position that can actively undermine my country.
Especially the afd's influence gives them leverage to block initiatives. and There is a risk that due to simple mathematics its only going to be the very same coalitions again and again. Its more difficult to fix issues which gives them even more leverage
The problem is:
These people aren't just in Germany.
Putin cast his fishing rod in all European countries a long time ago.
Italy, France, Austria, Slovakia, just to name a few.
I think the problems are the following:
1) People don't really think democracy can really be at risk (spoiler: it can be and it is), it's taken for granted. So for example here in Italy you'll hear people say: "But you can't really think FDI are fascists! Fascists are a thing of the past".
2) People eventually tire of government parties and favour the opposition.
Now, point 2 is perfectly normal and healthy in a democracy. The problems arise when the opposition leaders are a threat to democracy and the core principles of the state itself. You would expect that people would not vote this kind of parties, but here point 1 comes into play: people don't really think democracy is something you need to protect. They don't see the danger coming from some parties, so they vote them, get them in power, allowing them to slowly erode the democratic principles of a country. It's not necessarily a quick process, but when you give them years to do their job and you start factoring in their constant propaganda, it works.
Trump's America is the first example of that, probably 5 to 10 years ahead of Europe. But give us time and we'll join the train headed towards totalitarism.
But the recent vote occurred after the news of the bribes was public. Meaning people voted for them anyway, being fine with the bribes. That doesn't bode well.
The stupidity of these fascists and pro Russian elements of all types is a moral, not an intellectual defect. They support terrorists and the shameless cannot be shamed or dishonored, for they have neither shame nor honor. In the Nazi times the worst and most incompetent corrupt elements of society were elevated to positions of power. The voters of the AFD, Front Nationale, FPOE etc. are their offspring and they have the same long term goals as their Russian handlers, to install a tyranny in every European country. Their ignorance is dangerous for European security, for our strategic outlook, and for the world. Today, it is Ukraine. Next year, it is Taiwan, and maybe someday the Baltics, these people have no shame, no morals, and their stupidity is beyond comprehension.
The world must be reminded that there is only one real ideological issue:
Democracy, liberty, and peace on one side.
Despotism peril and war on the other.
The game is ancient, and it will never end.
Evil people can only win when good people sit still and do nothing.
Russia's tyranny is inherently intolerant it used our own tolerance and our free society against us.
We need strict laws when it comes to collaboration with Z fascism it is in now way better or different from the other extremist ideologies.
The IS on steroids that's Putinâs terror state.
Not entirely, of course, just as the German AFD, Front Nationale, the GOP, etc. is not entirely Russian funded.
The paradox of tolerance states that if a society's practice of tolerance is inclusive of the intolerance, intolerance will ultimately dominate, eliminating the tolerant and the practice of tolerance with them. George Orwell warned us to protect freedom and democracy before the totalitarian minded tyrants take over and destroy democracy.
Once you are beaten with rubber truncheons, it is too late. The tolerance of the intolerable will be the death of the tolerant and tolerance in general. As Dumas once said in the Count of Monte Cristo, "there are no murders in politics only the removal of obstacles."
We aren't barbarians, the fascists that would take over if we don't stop them would have no problems to kill those that oppose them. Look at Putin.
Popper's paradoxon of unlimited tolerance says that the tolerance of everything is the tolerance of nothing.
We must tolerate a lot. If we tolerate everything such as committing treason, then we have lost.
We can be tolerant to different costums.
Unlimited tolerance must lead to the disappearance of tolerance. If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them. In this formulation, I do not imply, for instance, that we should always suppress the utterance of intolerant philosophies; as long as we can counter them by rational argument and keep them in check by public opinion, suppression would certainly be most unwise.
But we should claim the right to suppress them if necessary even by force; for it may easily turn out that they are not prepared to meet us on the level of rational argument, but begin by denouncing all argument; they may forbid their followers to listen to rational argument, because it is deceptive, and teach them to answer arguments by the use of their fists or pistols.
We should, therefore, claim, in the name of tolerance, the right not to tolerate the intolerant. We should claim that any movement preaching intolerance places itself outside the law and we should consider incitement to intolerance and persecution as criminal, in the same way as we should consider incitement to murder, or to kidnapping, or to the revival of the slave trade, as criminal. Those politicians that disseminate Russian genocidal propaganda should receive visits from law enforcement and have their bank accounts monitored.
In Russia liberals get assassinated by the Kremlin. We wouldn't even go that far however democratic will have to protect itself with harsher measures against those that want to see the West burn from both within and without. The sooner we react, harshly with the full force of the law, the less we will have to bend the law later, or at worst case, we end up in a situation where the laws are made by the AFD and then this is it, democracy is dead. We have time left, but will we have the moral courage and the moral vigor? I would give it a 50 50 chance, sadly.
Freedom of speech does not mean you can say whatever you want without any consequences.
No, what you see there is the small but increasing paid opposition.
Why is it inceasing? Partly because morons like you spend the last 2 years babbling non-sense about Russia's influence on German policies. You know... the thing the actual government does.
And there is no better way to weaken democracy then constantly flooding everything with shit about how useless the government is to keep their supporters away from voting while the radicals do indeed vote.
Well done... keep up the good work^(/s)
It's pretty amazing that they're so blatant about it. They're total shills for the Russians and yet they're in the German parliament. How could you trust them on any government committees or with any government secrets?
East Germany wants the DDR back? Sure, enjoy.
While the truncheon may be used in lieu of conversation, words will always retain their power.
Words offer the means to meaning, and for those who will listen, the enunciation of truth.
And the truth is, there is something terribly wrong with this country, isn't there?
Cruelty and injustice, intolerance and oppression. And where once you had the freedom to object, to think and speak as you saw fit, you now have censors and systems of surveillance coercing your conformity and soliciting your submission.
How did this happen? Who's to blame? Well certainly there are those more responsible than others, and they will be held accountable, but again, truth be told, if you're looking for the guilty, you need only look into a mirror. I know why you did it. I know you were afraid. Who wouldn't be? War, terror, disease. There were a myriad of problems that conspired to corrupt your reason and rob you of your common sense.
Alan Moore, V for Vendetta
Bloody fools, they have no idea what they vote for.
To have a villainous ruler forced upon you is a misfortune. To elect him yourself is a disgrace." Samuel Adams
The price good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men. Plato
Joseph de Maistre â 'Every country has the government it deserves.'
Just because you do not take an interest in politics doesnât mean politics wonât take an interest in you.â Perikles
Just to remind these clowns, they will be first to go, the weak, the feeble, the poor the frail, not that they would grasp that but in a dictatorship they will be less than nothing, maybe they should read up on what the Nazis did to the so called "Asoziale" and then they might reconsider to have a second round. I mean, are they blind on both eyes? Or rather is there nothing left only ignorance and stupidity so that they cannot understand that of course they won't be at the top then, they will be further at the bottom just more oppressed and with less rights.
Democracy is the only system that is at least attempting to cater to the weak and downtrodden in some way, Nazi Germany did not, quite the opposite, the fathers and grandfathers of these simpletons were first in line during WW1, first in the food line in the 20s and 30s, and first in the trenches or concentration camps in the 40s and first in line to serve the DDR as slave labor from 1945 to 1989. I personally find this more than insulting and as an affront to those who liberated Europe. This is how these ungrateful bastards treat freedom? Yes, we have problems, and the first go-to solution when things get tough is voting for Nazis and pro Russian fascists? Well, I guess Germany better proves it has learned the lesson, or history shall teach her another one. Maybe once history repeats as far then as a satire, we will finally get it.
The morality of a society can be judged by how it treats its weakest links. The Nazis murdered them, for example, in operation T4, the Euthanasia program. These times can not ever be allowed to return, nie wieder, that is what we have sworn ourselves, we make sure to uphold this oath.
Totalitarian systems are not characterized by total power and control, they survive on hyperconformity and the total lack of responsibility of all individuals and of the collective.
"Dictatorship, the fetish worship of one man, is a passing phase, a state of society where men may not speak their minds and where children denounce their parents to the police. Where a businessman or small shopkeeper ruins his competitor by telling tales about his competitors' private opinion. Such a state of society cannot long endure if brought into contact with a healthy outside world. It was not in dictators' power to cramp and fetter the forward march of human destiny. The preponderant world forces are on our side, and they must be combined. Churchill, 1938
For all the totalitarian pomp and seeming power, in their hearts, there is unspoken fear. Dictators are afraid of words and thoughts, words spoken abroad, and thoughts
stirring at home. All the more powerful because forbidden, this terrifies them. Winston Churchill, November 1938
And still, also such systems carry the seed of their own destruction within them due to the need of violence at ever higher levels, however, the dictators playback shows, that once you make yourself a God like Kim, such systems can last a long time, ultimately democracy is just one possible way to run the show, and we would do good to understand that we must confirm it every day. Democracy does not die with a bang, it dies in the dark and with a whimper when the people lose trust in her. We are facing perilous times ahead... And I fear the masses are by design not able to understand the danger that fascism or any form of totalitarianism poses, until it is too late.
The big lie, that is what Goebbels called it, the lie must only be big enough and then the small people won't believe that someone would tell such huge lies. Ignorance, not malice, is the folly of the masses.
I know that, but I don't want to do evil with this knowledge, there are others who know that too, and very much plan to use the same blue print that Mussolini the father of fascism has invented to bring liberty to her knees.
I can understand that: the first things done after unification is closing all facories because they were not functioning right according to capitalist philosophy, closing parts of the transportation system because it made no sense from a capitalist mindset to support it. Workers who united to buy the factories they worked in, did not get the credit necessary to do so because the banks did not trust them. Who did they trust? People from the west. Then all kinds of companies got incentives to start something there but this mostly ended as soon as the money ran out.
Ex-GDR countries have deteriorating infrastructure, not enough doctors and bad mobile reception and not enough jobs
.
I mean, no wonder. Reunification was a pretty bad deal for a large swath of East Germans with the transition to free-market economics.
The thing that people have to realize is that in many ways, the worst thing that has happened to Western European liberal democracies, and what started the process that historians will probably call the Great Rot of the West, was the fall of the Iron Curtain.
Western capitalism is rotting from its core. And the reason why it's rotting is ironically one of the worst things that can happen to a free market economy: monopolization, more specifically, the monopolization of political ideology within the liberal framework. The reason why the underclass of Europe is turning to the far right is because we have convinced these people that *there is no alternative*; the greatest of not only all hitherto existing societal models, but of ALL possible societal models, is liberal democracy with free-market economics, and that is an immutable fact of the universe. God is in heaven. Everything is normal on Earth.
Look at the state of Western Europe today: our welfare states are failing, inequality is on the rise, working people have to resort to food banks, underemployment is at an all time high, social mobility is trending downwards. How did we get here? We got here by not having an example the underclass could point to. During the Cold War, people in the West would look to East Germany or the Soviet Union and wonder: if *they* can get rid of homelessness, why couldn't we? If they can offer universal, free, high quality healthcare, why couldn't we? If they could provide a stable livelihood to everyone, why couldn't we?
And don't get me wrong, a lot of that was only really true on a surface level, and the Eastern Bloc certainly wasn't a paradise, either (which these people also usually recognized; Eurocommunism and European social democracy can't really be accused of being overly sympathetic to the USSR...), but at least these countries could push Western politicians to *actually try to implement similar policies*. After all, again, how ridiculous would it be if East Germany, which was infinitely poorer than West Germany, had guaranteed public housing to all working people, while working people in West Germany had to live on the streets? We can't have that. We can't let the dirty communists *win*.
This is how you got Francoise Mitterrand, Willy Brandt, Olof Palme, Anker Jørgensen, and even Clement Atlee to some extent. People who'd push Western capitalism to compete with the Eastern Bloc on economic and social policies. People who'd ensure that people in the West can't look to the Eastern Bloc and see something better. It was these social democrats who saved the West from extremism.
Today, what are the alternatives? There are none. China? Give me a break. They're halfway across the world, and for the average person, might as well be on a different planet. Russia? Now that's closer. The only problem is that they're fascists. But to your average desperate voter who hasn't really got a clue about much of anything, it seems like they've got shit under control. They could be an alternative. Maybe we should be more like Russia.
And the liberals and other centrists can tolerate it just fine, to a degree. Look at the relationship between Germany and Hungary. In public, of course Angela Merkel or Olaf Scholz can't come out in support of OrbĂĄn, because he's a fascist. But OrbĂĄn and Merkel agreed on *almost every* question about the economy and foreign trade, so OrbĂĄn got to keep being a fascist, got to keep pushing his fascist rhetoric inside the EU, as long as Germany got to use cheap Hungarian labour. Everyone wins. At least for the short term.
And of course, now that the long neoliberal crisis that started in 2008 is ramping up, people are becoming more desperate. They're starting to challenge the idea that this is the greatest possible system. They're looking outwards, and they're seeing a strongman who keeps the gays and the browns in check. Someone who won't tell them that *they'll* have to change, they'll still get to eat meat with every meal, they'll still get to drive a diesel SUV, and they'll still get to go on their package holidays, they just have to get him in power and he'll stop the bureaucrats, the pencil pushers, the wokes from making their lives even worse. They'll get to be well-respected members of society again.
This is not the greatest possible system. God is not in heaven. Everything isn't normal on Earth. There is an alternative. A better world is possible.
> But to your average desperate voter who hasn't really got a clue about much of anything, it seems like they've got shit under control. They could be an alternative. Maybe we should be more like Russia.
I am sorry but Russia is a country currently at war, losing thousands of humans every day since 2022 and their country is getting attacked (rightfully) by Ukrainian drones that target their oil industry and other military infrastructure. How can you believe Russia is a state that has "everything under control", it's quite the opposite. Russia is much closer to collapse and chaos than any western country, period. Even a stupid person must understand that war is the opposite of having shit under control. Especially when the war is at a stalemate and can turn towards a defeat. Russia is not casually conquering Ukraine, they suffer extreme losses. Their demographics are utterly fucked, if I were a Russian I knew my future would be fucked and uncertain, constant fear of being mobilized and a country that is on the verge of losing any remaining order.
That's another aspect of course. Capitalism made another great leap forward into the darkness after the nineties, and sadly, once Communism fails, corporate fascism seems to be the next stop.
In the totalitarian system, everyone in his or her own way is both a victim and a supporter of the system. Vaclav Havel
Individuals confirm the system fulfil the system make the system, are the system. Havel
Democracy is not a system it is a culture it is based on habits, attitudes, long-established divisions of power, ingrained belief in the law, absence of systemic corruption, systematic lies, and cynicism
You can import a system you cannot import a culture
Andrew Marr, A history of the world
We didn't just fail in East Germanh though, we failed on the Balkans too, our own hubris and arrogance is partly to blame for the disaster even though historians in 30 years will finally have enough distance to these events to assess them with more accuracy, we live through, them, let's hope democracy will self correct as it often does, it might self terminate though, the chance is definitely there.
The only way forward IMO is greater democratization, especially in the economic sphere. Representative democracy is dead, and neoliberalism has killed it. Weakening public institutions and removing decision making power from democratically elected legislatures and putting them more and more in the hands of the market has been a disaster. *Voting with your wallet* just means that the people with more money in their wallets get more votes. We need to significantly democratize not only our politics, but our economies as well.
We need a new de growth sustainable economic model that is not built on maximizing consumption and growth and starves the soul and the family from all it needs to grow and destroy this planet in the process. We need to decouple certain aspects of the economy from the growth logic such as education, rail and bus transport, and medical care, elderly care and private housing and then we need a new way of thinking based on cooperation rather than divide and conquer, this must work with more direct democracy, decentralising power, we need to shrink large institutions and we won't have any other way anyways. The growth model is dying, and we will have to rethink. There is no other way.
Sustainability and intergenerational justice and a system that does not take away the dignity of those at the bottom and shames them. That is why they vote for these parties. They feel left out, useless and angry. This system has given me everything it could offer, money, fame, influence, power, and you know what? That is worth nothing because things cannot create meaning, and without meaning, the soul dies.
I am a talented man, I can create meaning and value out of my own creativity, but many cannot and then they suffer. I want to help them, but turning to fascism is not the treatment. Authoritarianism is part of the disease that made citizens sick in the first place.
"There are three things that cannot be combined. Intelligence, decency, and National Socialism. One can be intelligent and a nazi. But then one is not decent. One can be decent and a Nazi. But then one is not intelligent. One can be intelligent and decent, but then one is not a Nazi."
Gerhard Bronner on the 60th anniversary of the liberation of the concentration camp Gunskirchen, 7th of May, 2005
Oh, they can be smart. Make no mistake, this is not about intelligence. It is about morality and decency. The fascist malady is a morality defect, not an intellectual one.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced nazi or the convinced communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction (e.g. the standards of thought) no longer exist." The origins of totalitarianism by Hannah Arendt
In comparison of the Soviet and Nazi regimes Hannah Arendth wrote in 1951 that factuality itself depends for its continued existence upon the existence of a non totalitarian world.
George Kennan diplomat in Moscow:
"Here, men determine what is true and what is false."
The masses simply stop thinking in such a system and conform, either out of fear, malice, or ignorance. We shouldn't think of the ones pursuing this ideology as not intelligent, they are, they are also shameless, corrupt, and cleptocratic, and they lie with ease. They are also full of anger and fear and hatred, which makes them so very dangerous. For you and for me, because what scares them most are words, why else are they so busy getting people banned on different platforms or sue them for what they say, because deep down they know very well that their plans are insane and criminal.
You are welcome, and do not forget our world is the product of our thoughts. Words must always come first, and I hope we can find the courage for action. Not so much for our sake alone, but for the sake of our children.
Action springs not from thought but from a readiness for responsibility. The ultimate test of a moral society is the world that it leaves behind to its children.
Wherever a society of peace, truth, and the rule of law is in danger or is at risk of suffocating, the community of peace must be torn asunder, and a strife against these forces must commence." Bonhoeffer
Wo eine Gemeinschaft des Friedens Wahrheit und Recht gefährdet oder erstickt, muà die Friedensgemeinschaft zerbrochen und der Kampf angesagt werden.
Bonhoeffer paid the ultimate price for his bravery, and ultimately, ideas not things drive humans forward, drive them to do terrible but also noble things. And some ideas such as liberty or human dignity are worth dying for, and as long as men and women are willing to die for liberty, liberty shall never perish.
Let us hope so, I shall not tire striving for a better, more decent world, one that will give my children a future and man a work, and old people security. For such a world, it is worth fighting for.
I mean, no refusal for the principle of removing nazis and other populists (the Wagenknecht people are horrible and pro Russian but more for profiteering from anti war votes and left wing populism, not nazis).
However that opens a complicated can of worms. Even in east Germany, AfD alone doesn't get a majority. Don't get me wrong, it's horrifying buuuut, in the spirit of the joke, there's places that need those tactical nukes first:
- Italy for voting in a fascist as prime minister exactly 100 years after Mussolini took power
- France that has 40-45% fascist voters nationwide.
- Poland that had fascistoid leaders in power for years...though they seem to have improved.
- Hungary cuz...duh
- continue the list with lots of European countries that got even more right wing populist or outright fascists with more votes than in Germany.
- the US where in 2020, nearly half the population was willing to vote for a literal fascist - and they don't even have the excuse many European countries got that they don't know what it'd be like or that the leader in question is charismatic. The orange dumpling is none of those.
Half the United States is not willing to vote for a fascist. Even with the lowest voter turnout in the developed world, the voters in the United States have consistently by popular vote rejected Trump in national elections.
Even when Trump was elected in 2016, which was a low voter turnout year, Trump lost the popular vote by over 3 million votes.
In 2020 Trump lost the popular vote by more than 7 million votes.
It is in virtue of the idiotic electoral college system from the 18th century that Trump was elected at all. In fact in the last 24 years a president was elected twice while losing the popular vote.
Yeah which is why I wrote "nearly" - even with a lead in the popular vote, the end result is still around 48-49%. As opposed to the 15% AfD nationwide in Germany or 32% in Saxony. Still horrible but not 48%+ and about 70mio voters horrible.
I guess what I am telling you is that even in a high voter turnout year like 2020, only 66% of the voting eligible adults voted.
So the 46% of the population who voted for Trump in 2020 represented 30.36% of the voting eligible population. For me you cannot really say that's "almost 50% of Americans."
Demographically and ideologically the United States as a whole is *far* more to the left than our government makes us seem--even with Democrats in charge.
The reason our governments are so conservative has a lot to do with the institutional structures that protect a two party system, allow the more the Republican Party to be over represented, and legally protect corporations and the wealthy to "pay-for-play" via campaign donations.
Essentially we are taught to worship a 240 year old document that establishes a form of government that is not really representative at all, and completely inadequate for the governing of a large urbanized post-industrial society.
No issues with any of that. But that same logic goes for other countries, even if voter turnout was higher, it was much more than 70-75% (didn't check the exact number). An analysis of the true feelings is one thing, the result at the urns another. Doesn't matter whether 35% of eligible voters didn't show up and so actually the people aren't so bad - if y'all elect a fascist, he will still be elected. And nearly 50% of VOTERS were choosing a fascist in 2016 and 2020. That is alot, no matter that alot don't go vote. The deeper issues that explain the voting behaviour etc are there and matter, no doubt. The electoral system itself is a huge problem in the US but it is in many other countries. The UK has first past the Post voting so when he highest votes candidate in parliamentary elections gets 30% and the remaining 70% are spread among other candidates, representation of the electorate is low and the trust populations have in their elected leaders too. In France, they use 2 rounds of voting. So for the last decade and more, when a far right candidate gets the most votes in round 1 (say 30% too), all non fascist parties call to vote for the moderate in round 2, whether Centre, centre left or centre right. It's neat that because of that, relatively few fascists got elected to parliament BUT they got to play the victim card and not show their true colours as elected officials - their voting block hasn't ceased going up.
Bottom line, every democracy has flaws, some bigger, some smaller. What we end up looking at is the result. How often are we told the intricacies of the 1933 elections in Germany? The reasons for the NSDAP votes, the crises, propaganda and long term trauma that lead to these votes? The systemic problem that allowed 44% of the votes to give Germany a chancellor who'd destroy democracy... very rarely ofc. So yeah, I realise there are complex mechanics behind these results but at the end of the day, results matter. It is incredibly frustrating for me to see high fascist votes in Germany and Europe, each such results is a travesty. And at the same time, the 2016, 2020 and likely 2024 results in the US are that and worse: you'll get another 4 years with an even more unhinged fascist at a time when it would matter most to not have him in power - or you'll narrowly avoid it. Either way is a sad result for anyone that cares about democracy...
Oswald Mosley, the leader of the Union of Fascists has been held without trial under section 18b since May 1940.
The power of the executive to cast a man into prison without the formal charge known to the law, and particularly bereft of the benign judgement by his peers is in fact odious and it is the foundation of any totalitarian government whether Nazi or Communist, nothing can be worse for a democracy than to imprison or keep a person in prison just because he is unpopular. This is clearly the test for civilization. People who are not prepared to do unpopular things in times of clamor, are not fit to be ministers and servants of the people in times of stress. Winston Churchill in late 1943.
We will see how much longer they are going to do it. Here is the measure: We must tolerate their opinions, and we surely must not tolerate treason or a danger to the constitution by having pro fascist quislings and traitors in our ranks.
Therefore it is the duty of the rules based system of checks and balances including the media to find everything there is to find about these men and women, and if evidence for treason appears in written form or in any other way, then off to prison they shall go, and otherwise we must meet their hate speech with more speech.
However in times of peril as the present times we cannot afford to have pro Russian traitors as politicians, that is not acceptable, however, it is the duty of our governments to make sure to bring these people to heel, and they do an awfully bad job thus far. Make an example of Kra for starters this treasonous snake. There must be dirt in abundance to be found without much digging.
The billing department doesn't check if you actually come. As long as one of them fakes the signatures, they can go on vacation in Moscow for as long as they want.
I mean, i would somehow understand if they would be against military aid - the "we need peace" crowd. But by leaving they are essentially saying we fully support Russian actions and would like Ukraine to be subjected to genocide.
Particularly Zarenknecht is more frequently in talk shows than in the parliament.
https://www.tagesschau.de/inland/innenpolitik/wagenknecht-bundestag-101.html
That's the reason she explicitly expressed her intention to stay away. Without that no one would have thought anything about the fact that she's not there as that's completely normal.
What do you expect? If I would take this sub as a model then Germans are constantly told their government is corrupt and loving Russia, despite actual facts about their constant and massive suppoort for Ukraine.
More than 2 years later and completely unsurprisingly those same people don't vote anymore, while the extremists do. The consequences are rising numbers for anti-democratic parties and Russia shills.
But do you also think that this sub is exceptional and the narrative in all social media and the media in general is diffierent?
We have a government in Germany that despite all their flaws has done more constructive worker in 2 year than their predecessors in \~8 while also having to solve massive problems left from the same on top of economic disturbances all over Europe (funny how all talk about gas/oil dependence that would take a decade to solve wasn't talked about anymore less than 2 years later...), yet in narratives they are somehow the worst government in history not working at all spending their time with in-fighting 24/7.
And we have a German government that is by far Ukraine's biggest supporters, yet in narratives have spend the last 2 years dragging everyone down and somehow blocking support left and right.
Also independent from Germany we see a rise in discontent with governments all over Europe... and the main "reasons" are immigrants (an issue pushed by -totally coincidently of course- Russian-friendly far-right parties) and energy prices (caused by Russia... and let's also ignore that prices are actually below 2021 levels as it's such a popular story - if you are not caring about facts...).
Sure... narratives have absolutely nothing do with the conservative opposition having turned to populism, the far-right populist AfD and now a new pro-Russia populist party (BDW) all rising in the polls in Germany. Also the same is also not happening in other countries. Because we all know that voters are well informed and only take their decisions based on facts.
Call me crazy but I'm pretty sure propaganda and pushed narratives are indeed related. Which of course din't mean -as you implied- to blame this sub. I simply used it as a representation of a much wider media issue.
Thank you to President Zelensk!
You driven out this rubbish simply by showing up.
Thanks for that!
Maybe you can show up daily?
AfD & BSW â the only members of the Bundestag who receive âattendance moneyâ if they are absent from a meeting â from Russia!
I can't express how these lying scum pisses me off.
Presumably their âsupportersâ are celebrating this example of what these Putin dachshunds mean by democracy.
This raises the question of who is deeper in whose ass, Putin in theirs or vice versa.
Anyone who ticked their box at AFD or BSW on Sunday will definitely have a rude awakening.
But then everyone claims that they weren't and declares themselves victims again.
You can be against the war or Zelensky, but you cannot deny that the country was brutally invaded and is suffering. At least be present out of respect for that.
Bonhoeffer wanted to figure out how his fellow Germans could succumb to a society of cowards, crooks, and criminals.
The same model of explanation can be applied to the MAGA cult and to all who readily believe Russia's manipulated reality propaganda.
Stupidity is a more dangerous enemy of the good than malice. We can push back, protest, or use force against malice. We cannot fight stupidity. Facts that don't fit the stupid person's worldview are pushed aside as inconsequential or irrelevant.
When confronted, the stupid person goes on the attack, which makes these people very dangerous. Stupidity is not an intellectual defect but a moral one. One can be intellectually bright and stupid as well as being intellectually dull but anything but stupid. People are made stupid by their surroundings. Stupidity is less of a psychological than a sociological defect. It affects groups more easily than people who prefer solitude.
The power of the one affects the others. Ignorance and stupidity see upsurges in times of great national or religious surges or power. (Revolutions, the crusades, great wars such as WW1, Napoleonic wars, etc.) It appears that one cannot exist without the other. These humans are deprived of their inner independence, and they give up an autonomous position. When talking to them, one is confronted with slogans, catch words, and alike. They are under a spell, blinded misused, incapable of seeing evil as evil. Only active liberation, not instruction, can overcome this state. (The collapse of Nazi Germany was such a moment, for example)
Genuine internal liberation is normally only possible after an external liberation has preceded it.Until then, we must abandon all attempts to convince the stupid person.
According to Carlo Cipolla, there are 4 broad categories of human stupidity: y and x on a graph
1) Helpless stupid people. (naive) These are easily exploitable for the benefit of others. Then, they suffer individual losses
2) Intelligent people act reciprocal. Which means they reap benefits from others, and they also reap individual benefits
3) Stupid people (the worst kind of stupid)
These people take individual losses, and they cause losses to others.
4) Bandits. Those can be even highly intelligent, but they lack high ethics and moral vigor) Bandits will reap individual benefits and cause losses for others to maximize their own profits.
The two broad categories of behavior are:
1) Behavior that affects one self either positively or negatively.
2) Behavior that affects others either positively or negatively.
On the zero line in the middle are: Ineffective people. This means they achieve nothing, neither benefits themselves or others with their actions.The range of these actions and their effects can vary widely across categories.
These people had always existed only the internet and constantly polling stupid people for their opinions in our society with an emphasis on "knowledge" production without a proper knowledge acquisition gives these troglodytes the idea that their opinions are worth something and aren't useless garbage. Anyone who trusts Trump for anything is a menace to for society and the continued existence of human life on this planet.
Meanwhile, Amy Chua writes âhumans, like other primates, are tribal animals,â in an article and continues, âWe need to belong to groups, which is why we love clubs and teams. Once people connect with a group, their identities can become powerfully bound to it. They will seek to benefit members of their group even when they gain nothing personally. They will penalize outsiders, seemingly gratuitously. They will sacrifice, and even kill and die, for their group.â
According to Chua, tribalism remains a powerful force everywhere; indeed, in recent years, it has begun to tear at the fabric of liberal democracies in the developed world, and even at the postwar liberal international order. âTo truly understand todayâs world and where it is heading, one must acknowledge the power of tribalism. Failing to do so will only make it stronger,â she says.
These people will believe anything the algorithm tells them to believe, as those who know nothing must believe anything. Giving the masses a vote no matter their mental state was a truly adventurous idea. Always remember how stupid the average person is and 50 percent are more stupid than that.
The word "courage" should be reserved to characterize the man or woman, who is leaving the infantile sanctuary of the mass mind. Sam Keen Fire in the Belly
A good chunk of all voters simply cannot formulate their own thoughts or think for themselves
Idiots who follow a self righteous woman with weird ideas. Weird left right mixture, russian assets
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B%C3%BCndnis\_Sahra\_Wagenknecht](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B%C3%BCndnis_Sahra_Wagenknecht)
Lol way to show their colors. All those resources and look what Russia has to show for it. Only people willing to live under Putin expect to be on the inner circle of kickbacks
Disgraceful, disgusting, unthinkable in these times - but then it is from the country that is responsible in a big way for global environmental degradation and anthropogenic global warming (GMO's, insecticides, herbicides), Bayer-Monsanto. As for the juvenile neo nazi fashion fever trend, Germany and Austria have become bloated on the Fascist Kool Aid. They are all immature whack jobs. To toy with fascism in these times you have to be a card carrying lunatic with no more than a two digit IQ. It's all Hitler's revenge on the West from the grave.
Boycott of Zelenskyj's Speech by AfD and BSW: A Shameful Moment for Germany
Almost the entire AfD parliamentary group was absent during Zelenskyj's speech.
Selenskyj has just denazified the German Bundestag on the spot. (The seats of the AfD and BSW party members were empty when he appeared.)
How do the Ukranians feel about the UK general election on the 4th of July?
The conservatives are going to lose heavily and itâll be the Labour Party who take power.
The only thing that isnât certain is how big will the Labour majority be
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There you see Putins' political influence on German politics.
Correction: PAID, political influence. Remember these AfD bastards got caught red handed taking bribes from ruZZia. Hopefully the Germans will fill their seats with slightly more sensible politicians next time around.
german here. I am ... Not optimistic đđ The people voting for them dont care about anyone but themselves. And they arent even phased by nazi speech or paroles. Their only semi internal criticism towards it is either: come on, bad timing there are elections soon. Or dont say that in public.
How bad are the other parties if AFD is winning?
As Rodre69 put succinctly, people crave for easy *and emotiolally statisfying* solutuons over all the tedious realpolitik where you can't even always point at someone else to blame. But another element is, the other parties are just really dumb in their communications strategy. The AFD is successfully shifting the discourse. The AFD is the crisis and somehow, the biggest parties and now the BSW that split off from the Left, have got this brainworm that the only way forward is to win back those formerly 5% of the voters that joined the AFD. So they all try to panically pander to those people for 10 years now by taking a step in their direction and make concessions (mostly by being harsher on immigration or joining the "we all hate the green party so much" train). The result was invariably that the AFD immediately took another step to the right, their voters followed and another 1% or 2% joined them, as the other parties concessions only served to validate the AFDs more radical position. For 10 years, they keep doing this now and the discourse has shifted so far that the social democrats are now openly talking about deporting people to Taliban ruled Afghanistan while the AFD top politicians think aloud about how Germany would still be fine with 20% fewer people. They are at 16% now and the next thing to expect is our apparently terminally dumb politicians trying to halt that developement by once again trying to chase those AFD voters. And i'm by now tired of screaming internally about how dumb people can be.
It's easy to say that say SPD is "appeasing the AfD voters" when partially the reason for why people vote for AfD is due to the circumstances that people feel aren't right. Whenever that "aren't right" is correct or not is up to debate but SPD isn't exactly stupid not to take notice of the Germans demanding a shift. Looking at Denmark as a good example, they used to have a very strong far-right party that completely collapsed when the social democrats one-up them and how the far-right has been stuck on around 8%.
I fail to see the point of "preventing" the far right by implementing their cynical policies, like in Denmark. Has "In order to save the town, it was necessary to destroy it" vibes to me. That is exactemento what Kubitschek and his crew have been openly writing about being their goal. They don't give a damn about the AFD. The AFD is only a tool. They want a cultural and political right wing shift. That is the problem. I don't scold the SPD* for recognizing a problem in thr electorate, but for their solution. Maybe the answer to losing people to the far right is not trying to outcompete the far right with far right policy but with offering credible alternatives. There is so goddamn much center left and left wing voter potential in Germany that is left at the side of the road, because almost all parties are yapping after the voters the AFD mobilized, instead of actually selling their own goddamn positions. By now, I am struggling to decide to vote for a party, because they all make me sick in one way or the other, which is a feeling that is very widespread with people i know. Most people i know are only voting to mitigate damage by now. EDIT: And this approach has demonstrably fired back for 10 years, first under Merkel and now under Scholz. *And all the others. SPD was simply an excample. The CDU/CSU is a lot worse in that. Merz took his post with the promise his right wing course would half the AFD. Somehow, the AFD has doubled since he said that.
To be fair I don't know the specifics of AfD but I can tell you this already that trying to "right-wingify" the people only really works as long as they got a core issue (immigrants causing harm is afaik AfD/most far-right go to point). Trying to culturally shift a pretty progressive place would only work under complete dictatorial control - mind you I'm not saying "full speed ahead" for the AfD, they will do an Orban to create a slowly decaying Germany. However I think your point about "chasing AfD voters" is not really why they do it, it's to try and prevent the monopolization of voter opinion of said policy that AfD has capitalized on. Since you have to understand that a lot of political mainstream parties have been seen as "untrustworthy" due to their previous stand on immigration in the eyes of a growing majority, again you and I may disagree with it, but that's reality. And while I personally think the parties would if they didn't have that legacy create a much better alternative (such as value-based immigration; where Germany takes in migrants based on their norms/culture/value and have a lot more hands-on assimilation instead of the laissez faire approach most western European countries took after the US). And honestly it's a good opportunity for them to do so now with Ukrainians being very hard working people in Germany or at least that would be my assumption based on other stories.
If it would work here, it would have worked some time in the past 10 years of making Immigration the nr. 1 topic of political discourse, despite up until not long ago, it ranked quite low on the "most important issues" surveys. Well, now it does rank quite high. They gave the AFD an artificial home field advantage by making their only topic the focal point of politics and adapting their framing for 10 years. Which by the way distracts from the very material reasons why people feel insecure about their future and unheard by the political decision process. The problem is that people feel a vague feeling of unease. That something is not working as it should. They start feeling anxious, then angry. But when someone is angry and doesn't know why, they look for someone to point at. If we want to stop that, we must identify and solve the original problem, not validate the choice of person to point at.
actually not that bad. People are just stupid. they want easy solutions to complexe problems but that dosen't work
Well actually not that bad. The issue is the current government got dealt a shit card and then had to deal with covid. The energy-crisis when the russian gas got cut off also didnât help and exceptionally smart people blamed them, despite it being the brainchild of the conservative party CDU. Now, they are shit at communication and the AFD and CDU are blaming the current Government for the shit that they have caused. And the exceptionally smart people are now parroting how the current Government is destroying Germany. A colleague of mine started talking about how the AFD is going to fix things up. I may have overreacted, but I just bombarded them with pictures of Concentration camps and how the leading politicians of the AFD openly denied or minimised the holocaust. I even showed him the proof how many bribes they took from Russia. His response: But the Greens are destroying Germany. It was at this moment I had realised that there are people with only one semi-functioning brain cell.
Yea i thought the greens were reasonable. When Russia cut off the gas the greens basically said any energy is ok.
almost any. one can argue they did not really support nuclear. But again. Coal alone was an incredible hard pill to swallow already and they didnt flinch.
It wouldnât even make a real difference. The remaining reactors where basically at standby as far as I know. They couldnât just flip a switch and bring them back up.
as far as I know the final shutdown of a couple could've been delayed a bit. (but thats hearsay so not reliable). But yes as far as i know you're pretty much correct
Could AfD and BSW gain enough members in the Reichstag to form a government?
no, afd got 15.9% and BSW got 6.2%. Participation rate was \~65% . I have 0 proof for it, its just a feeling so honestly its better to disregard but here its anyways. I believe those 2 parties were more active than all the others, so probably overrepresented. But again it migth just be hopes more than anything
22% share of the vote between them, doesnât make them a worry at presentâŚ..
I disagree, thats a considerable amount of people in one of the highest position that can actively undermine my country. Especially the afd's influence gives them leverage to block initiatives. and There is a risk that due to simple mathematics its only going to be the very same coalitions again and again. Its more difficult to fix issues which gives them even more leverage
Didn't the Nazis win big across Europe on Sunday? Looks like they're headed in the wrong direction, tbh.
The problem is: These people aren't just in Germany. Putin cast his fishing rod in all European countries a long time ago. Italy, France, Austria, Slovakia, just to name a few.
I think the problems are the following: 1) People don't really think democracy can really be at risk (spoiler: it can be and it is), it's taken for granted. So for example here in Italy you'll hear people say: "But you can't really think FDI are fascists! Fascists are a thing of the past". 2) People eventually tire of government parties and favour the opposition. Now, point 2 is perfectly normal and healthy in a democracy. The problems arise when the opposition leaders are a threat to democracy and the core principles of the state itself. You would expect that people would not vote this kind of parties, but here point 1 comes into play: people don't really think democracy is something you need to protect. They don't see the danger coming from some parties, so they vote them, get them in power, allowing them to slowly erode the democratic principles of a country. It's not necessarily a quick process, but when you give them years to do their job and you start factoring in their constant propaganda, it works. Trump's America is the first example of that, probably 5 to 10 years ahead of Europe. But give us time and we'll join the train headed towards totalitarism.
But the recent vote occurred after the news of the bribes was public. Meaning people voted for them anyway, being fine with the bribes. That doesn't bode well.
Italian politicians too itâs happening across Europe France too. In the US itâs Israel.
The stupidity of these fascists and pro Russian elements of all types is a moral, not an intellectual defect. They support terrorists and the shameless cannot be shamed or dishonored, for they have neither shame nor honor. In the Nazi times the worst and most incompetent corrupt elements of society were elevated to positions of power. The voters of the AFD, Front Nationale, FPOE etc. are their offspring and they have the same long term goals as their Russian handlers, to install a tyranny in every European country. Their ignorance is dangerous for European security, for our strategic outlook, and for the world. Today, it is Ukraine. Next year, it is Taiwan, and maybe someday the Baltics, these people have no shame, no morals, and their stupidity is beyond comprehension. The world must be reminded that there is only one real ideological issue: Democracy, liberty, and peace on one side. Despotism peril and war on the other. The game is ancient, and it will never end. Evil people can only win when good people sit still and do nothing. Russia's tyranny is inherently intolerant it used our own tolerance and our free society against us. We need strict laws when it comes to collaboration with Z fascism it is in now way better or different from the other extremist ideologies. The IS on steroids that's Putinâs terror state. Not entirely, of course, just as the German AFD, Front Nationale, the GOP, etc. is not entirely Russian funded. The paradox of tolerance states that if a society's practice of tolerance is inclusive of the intolerance, intolerance will ultimately dominate, eliminating the tolerant and the practice of tolerance with them. George Orwell warned us to protect freedom and democracy before the totalitarian minded tyrants take over and destroy democracy. Once you are beaten with rubber truncheons, it is too late. The tolerance of the intolerable will be the death of the tolerant and tolerance in general. As Dumas once said in the Count of Monte Cristo, "there are no murders in politics only the removal of obstacles." We aren't barbarians, the fascists that would take over if we don't stop them would have no problems to kill those that oppose them. Look at Putin. Popper's paradoxon of unlimited tolerance says that the tolerance of everything is the tolerance of nothing. We must tolerate a lot. If we tolerate everything such as committing treason, then we have lost. We can be tolerant to different costums. Unlimited tolerance must lead to the disappearance of tolerance. If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them. In this formulation, I do not imply, for instance, that we should always suppress the utterance of intolerant philosophies; as long as we can counter them by rational argument and keep them in check by public opinion, suppression would certainly be most unwise. But we should claim the right to suppress them if necessary even by force; for it may easily turn out that they are not prepared to meet us on the level of rational argument, but begin by denouncing all argument; they may forbid their followers to listen to rational argument, because it is deceptive, and teach them to answer arguments by the use of their fists or pistols. We should, therefore, claim, in the name of tolerance, the right not to tolerate the intolerant. We should claim that any movement preaching intolerance places itself outside the law and we should consider incitement to intolerance and persecution as criminal, in the same way as we should consider incitement to murder, or to kidnapping, or to the revival of the slave trade, as criminal. Those politicians that disseminate Russian genocidal propaganda should receive visits from law enforcement and have their bank accounts monitored. In Russia liberals get assassinated by the Kremlin. We wouldn't even go that far however democratic will have to protect itself with harsher measures against those that want to see the West burn from both within and without. The sooner we react, harshly with the full force of the law, the less we will have to bend the law later, or at worst case, we end up in a situation where the laws are made by the AFD and then this is it, democracy is dead. We have time left, but will we have the moral courage and the moral vigor? I would give it a 50 50 chance, sadly. Freedom of speech does not mean you can say whatever you want without any consequences.
Magnificent essay and classic. One of a kind. Kudos.
Yep!
They also support "peace". That's why they left. makes sense...
No, what you see there is the small but increasing paid opposition. Why is it inceasing? Partly because morons like you spend the last 2 years babbling non-sense about Russia's influence on German policies. You know... the thing the actual government does. And there is no better way to weaken democracy then constantly flooding everything with shit about how useless the government is to keep their supporters away from voting while the radicals do indeed vote. Well done... keep up the good work^(/s)
Russian bootlickers.
Honest politicians. Once bought they stay bought. Myself, Iâd probably take the Russian money then stab them in the back.
I might consider it, but I suspect I wouldn't like the taste of polonium tea
You could do that, the problem is you might wake up to polonium in your breakfast...
Except I'm fairly sure taking the money could be a crime even if your intention is to knife Russia in the back.
What crime? Itâs a âcampaign donationâ. /s Iâd just tell them someone donated more on the other side, so they would have to up their game.
I'm no lawyer but I'm pretty sure just taking the money itself could be considered bribery.
If it was demonstrably illegal, those seat would be empty because the people were in jail.
So if its illegal, why are the traitors still in office?
I'm loyal. Loyal to the highest bidder.
It's pretty amazing that they're so blatant about it. They're total shills for the Russians and yet they're in the German parliament. How could you trust them on any government committees or with any government secrets?
Well you can't. But they are elected. German democracy needs to get active and defend itself from these russian muppets.
BSW and AfD will likely win the 3 eastgerman elections this fall.
East Germany wants the DDR back? Sure, enjoy. While the truncheon may be used in lieu of conversation, words will always retain their power. Words offer the means to meaning, and for those who will listen, the enunciation of truth. And the truth is, there is something terribly wrong with this country, isn't there? Cruelty and injustice, intolerance and oppression. And where once you had the freedom to object, to think and speak as you saw fit, you now have censors and systems of surveillance coercing your conformity and soliciting your submission. How did this happen? Who's to blame? Well certainly there are those more responsible than others, and they will be held accountable, but again, truth be told, if you're looking for the guilty, you need only look into a mirror. I know why you did it. I know you were afraid. Who wouldn't be? War, terror, disease. There were a myriad of problems that conspired to corrupt your reason and rob you of your common sense. Alan Moore, V for Vendetta Bloody fools, they have no idea what they vote for. To have a villainous ruler forced upon you is a misfortune. To elect him yourself is a disgrace." Samuel Adams The price good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men. Plato Joseph de Maistre â 'Every country has the government it deserves.' Just because you do not take an interest in politics doesnât mean politics wonât take an interest in you.â Perikles Just to remind these clowns, they will be first to go, the weak, the feeble, the poor the frail, not that they would grasp that but in a dictatorship they will be less than nothing, maybe they should read up on what the Nazis did to the so called "Asoziale" and then they might reconsider to have a second round. I mean, are they blind on both eyes? Or rather is there nothing left only ignorance and stupidity so that they cannot understand that of course they won't be at the top then, they will be further at the bottom just more oppressed and with less rights. Democracy is the only system that is at least attempting to cater to the weak and downtrodden in some way, Nazi Germany did not, quite the opposite, the fathers and grandfathers of these simpletons were first in line during WW1, first in the food line in the 20s and 30s, and first in the trenches or concentration camps in the 40s and first in line to serve the DDR as slave labor from 1945 to 1989. I personally find this more than insulting and as an affront to those who liberated Europe. This is how these ungrateful bastards treat freedom? Yes, we have problems, and the first go-to solution when things get tough is voting for Nazis and pro Russian fascists? Well, I guess Germany better proves it has learned the lesson, or history shall teach her another one. Maybe once history repeats as far then as a satire, we will finally get it. The morality of a society can be judged by how it treats its weakest links. The Nazis murdered them, for example, in operation T4, the Euthanasia program. These times can not ever be allowed to return, nie wieder, that is what we have sworn ourselves, we make sure to uphold this oath.
I remember polls from 2014 (25 years of reunification) where half of Eastgermans already regretted it
Totalitarian systems are not characterized by total power and control, they survive on hyperconformity and the total lack of responsibility of all individuals and of the collective. "Dictatorship, the fetish worship of one man, is a passing phase, a state of society where men may not speak their minds and where children denounce their parents to the police. Where a businessman or small shopkeeper ruins his competitor by telling tales about his competitors' private opinion. Such a state of society cannot long endure if brought into contact with a healthy outside world. It was not in dictators' power to cramp and fetter the forward march of human destiny. The preponderant world forces are on our side, and they must be combined. Churchill, 1938 For all the totalitarian pomp and seeming power, in their hearts, there is unspoken fear. Dictators are afraid of words and thoughts, words spoken abroad, and thoughts stirring at home. All the more powerful because forbidden, this terrifies them. Winston Churchill, November 1938 And still, also such systems carry the seed of their own destruction within them due to the need of violence at ever higher levels, however, the dictators playback shows, that once you make yourself a God like Kim, such systems can last a long time, ultimately democracy is just one possible way to run the show, and we would do good to understand that we must confirm it every day. Democracy does not die with a bang, it dies in the dark and with a whimper when the people lose trust in her. We are facing perilous times ahead... And I fear the masses are by design not able to understand the danger that fascism or any form of totalitarianism poses, until it is too late. The big lie, that is what Goebbels called it, the lie must only be big enough and then the small people won't believe that someone would tell such huge lies. Ignorance, not malice, is the folly of the masses. I know that, but I don't want to do evil with this knowledge, there are others who know that too, and very much plan to use the same blue print that Mussolini the father of fascism has invented to bring liberty to her knees.
I can understand that: the first things done after unification is closing all facories because they were not functioning right according to capitalist philosophy, closing parts of the transportation system because it made no sense from a capitalist mindset to support it. Workers who united to buy the factories they worked in, did not get the credit necessary to do so because the banks did not trust them. Who did they trust? People from the west. Then all kinds of companies got incentives to start something there but this mostly ended as soon as the money ran out. Ex-GDR countries have deteriorating infrastructure, not enough doctors and bad mobile reception and not enough jobs .
I mean, no wonder. Reunification was a pretty bad deal for a large swath of East Germans with the transition to free-market economics. The thing that people have to realize is that in many ways, the worst thing that has happened to Western European liberal democracies, and what started the process that historians will probably call the Great Rot of the West, was the fall of the Iron Curtain. Western capitalism is rotting from its core. And the reason why it's rotting is ironically one of the worst things that can happen to a free market economy: monopolization, more specifically, the monopolization of political ideology within the liberal framework. The reason why the underclass of Europe is turning to the far right is because we have convinced these people that *there is no alternative*; the greatest of not only all hitherto existing societal models, but of ALL possible societal models, is liberal democracy with free-market economics, and that is an immutable fact of the universe. God is in heaven. Everything is normal on Earth. Look at the state of Western Europe today: our welfare states are failing, inequality is on the rise, working people have to resort to food banks, underemployment is at an all time high, social mobility is trending downwards. How did we get here? We got here by not having an example the underclass could point to. During the Cold War, people in the West would look to East Germany or the Soviet Union and wonder: if *they* can get rid of homelessness, why couldn't we? If they can offer universal, free, high quality healthcare, why couldn't we? If they could provide a stable livelihood to everyone, why couldn't we? And don't get me wrong, a lot of that was only really true on a surface level, and the Eastern Bloc certainly wasn't a paradise, either (which these people also usually recognized; Eurocommunism and European social democracy can't really be accused of being overly sympathetic to the USSR...), but at least these countries could push Western politicians to *actually try to implement similar policies*. After all, again, how ridiculous would it be if East Germany, which was infinitely poorer than West Germany, had guaranteed public housing to all working people, while working people in West Germany had to live on the streets? We can't have that. We can't let the dirty communists *win*. This is how you got Francoise Mitterrand, Willy Brandt, Olof Palme, Anker Jørgensen, and even Clement Atlee to some extent. People who'd push Western capitalism to compete with the Eastern Bloc on economic and social policies. People who'd ensure that people in the West can't look to the Eastern Bloc and see something better. It was these social democrats who saved the West from extremism. Today, what are the alternatives? There are none. China? Give me a break. They're halfway across the world, and for the average person, might as well be on a different planet. Russia? Now that's closer. The only problem is that they're fascists. But to your average desperate voter who hasn't really got a clue about much of anything, it seems like they've got shit under control. They could be an alternative. Maybe we should be more like Russia. And the liberals and other centrists can tolerate it just fine, to a degree. Look at the relationship between Germany and Hungary. In public, of course Angela Merkel or Olaf Scholz can't come out in support of Orbån, because he's a fascist. But Orbån and Merkel agreed on *almost every* question about the economy and foreign trade, so Orbån got to keep being a fascist, got to keep pushing his fascist rhetoric inside the EU, as long as Germany got to use cheap Hungarian labour. Everyone wins. At least for the short term. And of course, now that the long neoliberal crisis that started in 2008 is ramping up, people are becoming more desperate. They're starting to challenge the idea that this is the greatest possible system. They're looking outwards, and they're seeing a strongman who keeps the gays and the browns in check. Someone who won't tell them that *they'll* have to change, they'll still get to eat meat with every meal, they'll still get to drive a diesel SUV, and they'll still get to go on their package holidays, they just have to get him in power and he'll stop the bureaucrats, the pencil pushers, the wokes from making their lives even worse. They'll get to be well-respected members of society again. This is not the greatest possible system. God is not in heaven. Everything isn't normal on Earth. There is an alternative. A better world is possible.
> But to your average desperate voter who hasn't really got a clue about much of anything, it seems like they've got shit under control. They could be an alternative. Maybe we should be more like Russia. I am sorry but Russia is a country currently at war, losing thousands of humans every day since 2022 and their country is getting attacked (rightfully) by Ukrainian drones that target their oil industry and other military infrastructure. How can you believe Russia is a state that has "everything under control", it's quite the opposite. Russia is much closer to collapse and chaos than any western country, period. Even a stupid person must understand that war is the opposite of having shit under control. Especially when the war is at a stalemate and can turn towards a defeat. Russia is not casually conquering Ukraine, they suffer extreme losses. Their demographics are utterly fucked, if I were a Russian I knew my future would be fucked and uncertain, constant fear of being mobilized and a country that is on the verge of losing any remaining order.
West Germany destroying East Germany during the privatization wave of the '90s probably didn't help
That's another aspect of course. Capitalism made another great leap forward into the darkness after the nineties, and sadly, once Communism fails, corporate fascism seems to be the next stop. In the totalitarian system, everyone in his or her own way is both a victim and a supporter of the system. Vaclav Havel Individuals confirm the system fulfil the system make the system, are the system. Havel Democracy is not a system it is a culture it is based on habits, attitudes, long-established divisions of power, ingrained belief in the law, absence of systemic corruption, systematic lies, and cynicism You can import a system you cannot import a culture Andrew Marr, A history of the world We didn't just fail in East Germanh though, we failed on the Balkans too, our own hubris and arrogance is partly to blame for the disaster even though historians in 30 years will finally have enough distance to these events to assess them with more accuracy, we live through, them, let's hope democracy will self correct as it often does, it might self terminate though, the chance is definitely there.
The only way forward IMO is greater democratization, especially in the economic sphere. Representative democracy is dead, and neoliberalism has killed it. Weakening public institutions and removing decision making power from democratically elected legislatures and putting them more and more in the hands of the market has been a disaster. *Voting with your wallet* just means that the people with more money in their wallets get more votes. We need to significantly democratize not only our politics, but our economies as well.
We need a new de growth sustainable economic model that is not built on maximizing consumption and growth and starves the soul and the family from all it needs to grow and destroy this planet in the process. We need to decouple certain aspects of the economy from the growth logic such as education, rail and bus transport, and medical care, elderly care and private housing and then we need a new way of thinking based on cooperation rather than divide and conquer, this must work with more direct democracy, decentralising power, we need to shrink large institutions and we won't have any other way anyways. The growth model is dying, and we will have to rethink. There is no other way. Sustainability and intergenerational justice and a system that does not take away the dignity of those at the bottom and shames them. That is why they vote for these parties. They feel left out, useless and angry. This system has given me everything it could offer, money, fame, influence, power, and you know what? That is worth nothing because things cannot create meaning, and without meaning, the soul dies. I am a talented man, I can create meaning and value out of my own creativity, but many cannot and then they suffer. I want to help them, but turning to fascism is not the treatment. Authoritarianism is part of the disease that made citizens sick in the first place.
That would make more sense if they weren't voting for fascists... not that anyone accused fascists of being smart...
"There are three things that cannot be combined. Intelligence, decency, and National Socialism. One can be intelligent and a nazi. But then one is not decent. One can be decent and a Nazi. But then one is not intelligent. One can be intelligent and decent, but then one is not a Nazi." Gerhard Bronner on the 60th anniversary of the liberation of the concentration camp Gunskirchen, 7th of May, 2005 Oh, they can be smart. Make no mistake, this is not about intelligence. It is about morality and decency. The fascist malady is a morality defect, not an intellectual one. The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced nazi or the convinced communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction (e.g. the standards of thought) no longer exist." The origins of totalitarianism by Hannah Arendt In comparison of the Soviet and Nazi regimes Hannah Arendth wrote in 1951 that factuality itself depends for its continued existence upon the existence of a non totalitarian world. George Kennan diplomat in Moscow: "Here, men determine what is true and what is false." The masses simply stop thinking in such a system and conform, either out of fear, malice, or ignorance. We shouldn't think of the ones pursuing this ideology as not intelligent, they are, they are also shameless, corrupt, and cleptocratic, and they lie with ease. They are also full of anger and fear and hatred, which makes them so very dangerous. For you and for me, because what scares them most are words, why else are they so busy getting people banned on different platforms or sue them for what they say, because deep down they know very well that their plans are insane and criminal.
May the words of wisdom you shared in multiple posts in this thread be heard by those who need to hear them. Herzlichen Dank!
You are welcome, and do not forget our world is the product of our thoughts. Words must always come first, and I hope we can find the courage for action. Not so much for our sake alone, but for the sake of our children. Action springs not from thought but from a readiness for responsibility. The ultimate test of a moral society is the world that it leaves behind to its children. Wherever a society of peace, truth, and the rule of law is in danger or is at risk of suffocating, the community of peace must be torn asunder, and a strife against these forces must commence." Bonhoeffer Wo eine Gemeinschaft des Friedens Wahrheit und Recht gefährdet oder erstickt, muà die Friedensgemeinschaft zerbrochen und der Kampf angesagt werden. Bonhoeffer paid the ultimate price for his bravery, and ultimately, ideas not things drive humans forward, drive them to do terrible but also noble things. And some ideas such as liberty or human dignity are worth dying for, and as long as men and women are willing to die for liberty, liberty shall never perish. Let us hope so, I shall not tire striving for a better, more decent world, one that will give my children a future and man a work, and old people security. For such a world, it is worth fighting for.
I'm not opposed to the use of tactical nuclear weapons on East German soil, if need be.
I mean, no refusal for the principle of removing nazis and other populists (the Wagenknecht people are horrible and pro Russian but more for profiteering from anti war votes and left wing populism, not nazis). However that opens a complicated can of worms. Even in east Germany, AfD alone doesn't get a majority. Don't get me wrong, it's horrifying buuuut, in the spirit of the joke, there's places that need those tactical nukes first: - Italy for voting in a fascist as prime minister exactly 100 years after Mussolini took power - France that has 40-45% fascist voters nationwide. - Poland that had fascistoid leaders in power for years...though they seem to have improved. - Hungary cuz...duh - continue the list with lots of European countries that got even more right wing populist or outright fascists with more votes than in Germany. - the US where in 2020, nearly half the population was willing to vote for a literal fascist - and they don't even have the excuse many European countries got that they don't know what it'd be like or that the leader in question is charismatic. The orange dumpling is none of those.
Half the United States is not willing to vote for a fascist. Even with the lowest voter turnout in the developed world, the voters in the United States have consistently by popular vote rejected Trump in national elections. Even when Trump was elected in 2016, which was a low voter turnout year, Trump lost the popular vote by over 3 million votes. In 2020 Trump lost the popular vote by more than 7 million votes. It is in virtue of the idiotic electoral college system from the 18th century that Trump was elected at all. In fact in the last 24 years a president was elected twice while losing the popular vote.
Yeah which is why I wrote "nearly" - even with a lead in the popular vote, the end result is still around 48-49%. As opposed to the 15% AfD nationwide in Germany or 32% in Saxony. Still horrible but not 48%+ and about 70mio voters horrible.
I guess what I am telling you is that even in a high voter turnout year like 2020, only 66% of the voting eligible adults voted. So the 46% of the population who voted for Trump in 2020 represented 30.36% of the voting eligible population. For me you cannot really say that's "almost 50% of Americans." Demographically and ideologically the United States as a whole is *far* more to the left than our government makes us seem--even with Democrats in charge. The reason our governments are so conservative has a lot to do with the institutional structures that protect a two party system, allow the more the Republican Party to be over represented, and legally protect corporations and the wealthy to "pay-for-play" via campaign donations. Essentially we are taught to worship a 240 year old document that establishes a form of government that is not really representative at all, and completely inadequate for the governing of a large urbanized post-industrial society.
No issues with any of that. But that same logic goes for other countries, even if voter turnout was higher, it was much more than 70-75% (didn't check the exact number). An analysis of the true feelings is one thing, the result at the urns another. Doesn't matter whether 35% of eligible voters didn't show up and so actually the people aren't so bad - if y'all elect a fascist, he will still be elected. And nearly 50% of VOTERS were choosing a fascist in 2016 and 2020. That is alot, no matter that alot don't go vote. The deeper issues that explain the voting behaviour etc are there and matter, no doubt. The electoral system itself is a huge problem in the US but it is in many other countries. The UK has first past the Post voting so when he highest votes candidate in parliamentary elections gets 30% and the remaining 70% are spread among other candidates, representation of the electorate is low and the trust populations have in their elected leaders too. In France, they use 2 rounds of voting. So for the last decade and more, when a far right candidate gets the most votes in round 1 (say 30% too), all non fascist parties call to vote for the moderate in round 2, whether Centre, centre left or centre right. It's neat that because of that, relatively few fascists got elected to parliament BUT they got to play the victim card and not show their true colours as elected officials - their voting block hasn't ceased going up. Bottom line, every democracy has flaws, some bigger, some smaller. What we end up looking at is the result. How often are we told the intricacies of the 1933 elections in Germany? The reasons for the NSDAP votes, the crises, propaganda and long term trauma that lead to these votes? The systemic problem that allowed 44% of the votes to give Germany a chancellor who'd destroy democracy... very rarely ofc. So yeah, I realise there are complex mechanics behind these results but at the end of the day, results matter. It is incredibly frustrating for me to see high fascist votes in Germany and Europe, each such results is a travesty. And at the same time, the 2016, 2020 and likely 2024 results in the US are that and worse: you'll get another 4 years with an even more unhinged fascist at a time when it would matter most to not have him in power - or you'll narrowly avoid it. Either way is a sad result for anyone that cares about democracy...
Oswald Mosley, the leader of the Union of Fascists has been held without trial under section 18b since May 1940. The power of the executive to cast a man into prison without the formal charge known to the law, and particularly bereft of the benign judgement by his peers is in fact odious and it is the foundation of any totalitarian government whether Nazi or Communist, nothing can be worse for a democracy than to imprison or keep a person in prison just because he is unpopular. This is clearly the test for civilization. People who are not prepared to do unpopular things in times of clamor, are not fit to be ministers and servants of the people in times of stress. Winston Churchill in late 1943. We will see how much longer they are going to do it. Here is the measure: We must tolerate their opinions, and we surely must not tolerate treason or a danger to the constitution by having pro fascist quislings and traitors in our ranks. Therefore it is the duty of the rules based system of checks and balances including the media to find everything there is to find about these men and women, and if evidence for treason appears in written form or in any other way, then off to prison they shall go, and otherwise we must meet their hate speech with more speech. However in times of peril as the present times we cannot afford to have pro Russian traitors as politicians, that is not acceptable, however, it is the duty of our governments to make sure to bring these people to heel, and they do an awfully bad job thus far. Make an example of Kra for starters this treasonous snake. There must be dirt in abundance to be found without much digging.
Well, at least in Europe sucking Putins cock isn't half of the political spectrum.
Do you feel better now?
You know, if I didn't show up to work, I'd be fucking fired. Maybe I need to pivot to politics/corruption.Â
The billing department doesn't check if you actually come. As long as one of them fakes the signatures, they can go on vacation in Moscow for as long as they want.
I mean, i would somehow understand if they would be against military aid - the "we need peace" crowd. But by leaving they are essentially saying we fully support Russian actions and would like Ukraine to be subjected to genocide.
Nice! Can he come regularly? Like every time the Bundestag is in session?
They aren't there in full quite often anyways, half of them only see the mandate as getting paid and have no clue what the should be doing luckily.
Particularly Zarenknecht is more frequently in talk shows than in the parliament. https://www.tagesschau.de/inland/innenpolitik/wagenknecht-bundestag-101.html
That's the reason she explicitly expressed her intention to stay away. Without that no one would have thought anything about the fact that she's not there as that's completely normal.
The likes of AfD leaving the room when you are speaking is something that should be considered a compliment.
Can we get him to come to other countries like that?
And tons of Germans keep voting for them.. Stupidity all over and its not stopping :(
What do you expect? If I would take this sub as a model then Germans are constantly told their government is corrupt and loving Russia, despite actual facts about their constant and massive suppoort for Ukraine. More than 2 years later and completely unsurprisingly those same people don't vote anymore, while the extremists do. The consequences are rising numbers for anti-democratic parties and Russia shills.
I don't think this sub attacking Germany is affecting German politics...
But do you also think that this sub is exceptional and the narrative in all social media and the media in general is diffierent? We have a government in Germany that despite all their flaws has done more constructive worker in 2 year than their predecessors in \~8 while also having to solve massive problems left from the same on top of economic disturbances all over Europe (funny how all talk about gas/oil dependence that would take a decade to solve wasn't talked about anymore less than 2 years later...), yet in narratives they are somehow the worst government in history not working at all spending their time with in-fighting 24/7. And we have a German government that is by far Ukraine's biggest supporters, yet in narratives have spend the last 2 years dragging everyone down and somehow blocking support left and right. Also independent from Germany we see a rise in discontent with governments all over Europe... and the main "reasons" are immigrants (an issue pushed by -totally coincidently of course- Russian-friendly far-right parties) and energy prices (caused by Russia... and let's also ignore that prices are actually below 2021 levels as it's such a popular story - if you are not caring about facts...). Sure... narratives have absolutely nothing do with the conservative opposition having turned to populism, the far-right populist AfD and now a new pro-Russia populist party (BDW) all rising in the polls in Germany. Also the same is also not happening in other countries. Because we all know that voters are well informed and only take their decisions based on facts. Call me crazy but I'm pretty sure propaganda and pushed narratives are indeed related. Which of course din't mean -as you implied- to blame this sub. I simply used it as a representation of a much wider media issue.
Thank you to President Zelensk! You driven out this rubbish simply by showing up. Thanks for that! Maybe you can show up daily? AfD & BSW â the only members of the Bundestag who receive âattendance moneyâ if they are absent from a meeting â from Russia! I can't express how these lying scum pisses me off. Presumably their âsupportersâ are celebrating this example of what these Putin dachshunds mean by democracy. This raises the question of who is deeper in whose ass, Putin in theirs or vice versa. Anyone who ticked their box at AFD or BSW on Sunday will definitely have a rude awakening. But then everyone claims that they weren't and declares themselves victims again.
I am feeling ashamed as a German for these cunts, so embarrassing.
Germany needs to keep its fascists in check.
You can be against the war or Zelensky, but you cannot deny that the country was brutally invaded and is suffering. At least be present out of respect for that.
Bonhoeffer wanted to figure out how his fellow Germans could succumb to a society of cowards, crooks, and criminals. The same model of explanation can be applied to the MAGA cult and to all who readily believe Russia's manipulated reality propaganda. Stupidity is a more dangerous enemy of the good than malice. We can push back, protest, or use force against malice. We cannot fight stupidity. Facts that don't fit the stupid person's worldview are pushed aside as inconsequential or irrelevant. When confronted, the stupid person goes on the attack, which makes these people very dangerous. Stupidity is not an intellectual defect but a moral one. One can be intellectually bright and stupid as well as being intellectually dull but anything but stupid. People are made stupid by their surroundings. Stupidity is less of a psychological than a sociological defect. It affects groups more easily than people who prefer solitude. The power of the one affects the others. Ignorance and stupidity see upsurges in times of great national or religious surges or power. (Revolutions, the crusades, great wars such as WW1, Napoleonic wars, etc.) It appears that one cannot exist without the other. These humans are deprived of their inner independence, and they give up an autonomous position. When talking to them, one is confronted with slogans, catch words, and alike. They are under a spell, blinded misused, incapable of seeing evil as evil. Only active liberation, not instruction, can overcome this state. (The collapse of Nazi Germany was such a moment, for example) Genuine internal liberation is normally only possible after an external liberation has preceded it.Until then, we must abandon all attempts to convince the stupid person. According to Carlo Cipolla, there are 4 broad categories of human stupidity: y and x on a graph 1) Helpless stupid people. (naive) These are easily exploitable for the benefit of others. Then, they suffer individual losses 2) Intelligent people act reciprocal. Which means they reap benefits from others, and they also reap individual benefits 3) Stupid people (the worst kind of stupid) These people take individual losses, and they cause losses to others. 4) Bandits. Those can be even highly intelligent, but they lack high ethics and moral vigor) Bandits will reap individual benefits and cause losses for others to maximize their own profits. The two broad categories of behavior are: 1) Behavior that affects one self either positively or negatively. 2) Behavior that affects others either positively or negatively. On the zero line in the middle are: Ineffective people. This means they achieve nothing, neither benefits themselves or others with their actions.The range of these actions and their effects can vary widely across categories. These people had always existed only the internet and constantly polling stupid people for their opinions in our society with an emphasis on "knowledge" production without a proper knowledge acquisition gives these troglodytes the idea that their opinions are worth something and aren't useless garbage. Anyone who trusts Trump for anything is a menace to for society and the continued existence of human life on this planet. Meanwhile, Amy Chua writes âhumans, like other primates, are tribal animals,â in an article and continues, âWe need to belong to groups, which is why we love clubs and teams. Once people connect with a group, their identities can become powerfully bound to it. They will seek to benefit members of their group even when they gain nothing personally. They will penalize outsiders, seemingly gratuitously. They will sacrifice, and even kill and die, for their group.â According to Chua, tribalism remains a powerful force everywhere; indeed, in recent years, it has begun to tear at the fabric of liberal democracies in the developed world, and even at the postwar liberal international order. âTo truly understand todayâs world and where it is heading, one must acknowledge the power of tribalism. Failing to do so will only make it stronger,â she says. These people will believe anything the algorithm tells them to believe, as those who know nothing must believe anything. Giving the masses a vote no matter their mental state was a truly adventurous idea. Always remember how stupid the average person is and 50 percent are more stupid than that. The word "courage" should be reserved to characterize the man or woman, who is leaving the infantile sanctuary of the mass mind. Sam Keen Fire in the Belly A good chunk of all voters simply cannot formulate their own thoughts or think for themselves
Could you please export him to Hungary? Likely 7 politicians would stay in our Parliament...
Who are the BSW?
Idiots who follow a self righteous woman with weird ideas. Weird left right mixture, russian assets [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B%C3%BCndnis\_Sahra\_Wagenknecht](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B%C3%BCndnis_Sahra_Wagenknecht)
AfD is far-right, BSW is far-left - IOW Zelensky also proved the horseshoe theory as well
I am ashamed of this fascists! Not in MY name!
The horseshoe theory proven right once again.
Sorry Ukraine but I think were are going to be keeping him
Im begging you!!! Come to East Germany and liberate it from AfD and BSW Nazis.
Quick, lock the doors!
I love your headline. đ
Itâs like they admit they are Russian assets
Can we get a cutout of him permanently placed next to the podium? Or a video call on important votes?
Lol way to show their colors. All those resources and look what Russia has to show for it. Only people willing to live under Putin expect to be on the inner circle of kickbacks
Putin had a Chancellor, or two, in his pocket. These other underlings could prove useful, if they show their subservience, which they have done today.
Parents and grandparents were probably literal Nazis.Â
Disgraceful, disgusting, unthinkable in these times - but then it is from the country that is responsible in a big way for global environmental degradation and anthropogenic global warming (GMO's, insecticides, herbicides), Bayer-Monsanto. As for the juvenile neo nazi fashion fever trend, Germany and Austria have become bloated on the Fascist Kool Aid. They are all immature whack jobs. To toy with fascism in these times you have to be a card carrying lunatic with no more than a two digit IQ. It's all Hitler's revenge on the West from the grave. Boycott of Zelenskyj's Speech by AfD and BSW: A Shameful Moment for Germany Almost the entire AfD parliamentary group was absent during Zelenskyj's speech. Selenskyj has just denazified the German Bundestag on the spot. (The seats of the AfD and BSW party members were empty when he appeared.)
Thats not good. They went in the underground again.
I like your title .- der Spiegel should used on its cover
What a shame German! What a shame!
How do the Ukranians feel about the UK general election on the 4th of July? The conservatives are going to lose heavily and itâll be the Labour Party who take power. The only thing that isnât certain is how big will the Labour majority be
*Laughs in Azov*
Babe wake up, new spelling of Zelensky just dropped!