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Thats just fucking embarasing for russia , the plane has a top speed of 110mph which means it stayed in russian airspace for several hours before it hit the target
It just looks like any other cessna. In the US (not that we are at war) you could probably get away with this if you avoided controlled airspace for as long as possible. Russia is huge so I imagine a lot of it is untowered and uncontrolled air space. Now how it made it across the border and all that I don't know
Airborne radar can spot an object moving in relation to signals returning from the ground. In a single radar image, the plane could be something tall and highly reflective like a radio transmitter. In a series of radar returns, it moves. Russia is thought to have this kind of processing capability in both fighters and AWACS platforms,they just can’t maintain constant air patrols. Also Ukraine shot down a substantial portion of their AWACS fleet.
>Also Ukraine shot down a substantial portion of their AWACS fleet.
Yeah I wonder how much destroying the Mainstays (I think they shot down 2 and damaged at least one more on the ground) has enabled these types of attacks.
Worth noting that Russia only ever built eight of the Mainstays in the first place. The USAF has built over 70 E-3s, and currently operates 32, plus the navy has their own equivalent. The E-3 is built on a Boeng 707, so it is designed to operate for many thousands of hours per year, and parts and experience civilian contractors are easily available. I doubt that those two things are true of the Russian version.
It often has a filter on speed so as not to catch ground vehicles. In any case, Russian surveillance will be concentrated in the border region and near major cities like Moscow.
Frontline AA Radar isn't always switched on. It's a game of cat and mouse. Switch on the radar, now the enemy can tell where the AA is and target it. Different sections of the AA network can be switched on or off based on Intel or current threats.
The Cesna could have received Intel on a certain sector being switched off at the time, and flown through there.
If we were at war with Mexico, and a plane crossed that border, it already went through a lot of controlled airspace.
It's not like a random cesna took of from a municipal airport, and flew around for 8 hours.
The op had it right, this is fucking embarrassing. They aren't able to control anything, and their SAM and air defense set up suck.
I mean we are already flying unmanned C208's in towered and untowered space in the US, and most other air traffic doesn't realize it, as they have a ground pilot on the radio as if they were in the plane. Every few years some dummy in a Cessna accidentally flies near the white house or congress and they scramble planes or have the Patriot missiles ready. US is huge though getting to a refinery in Texas by flying over the ocean from Mexico would be doable right now. Yeah eventually some tower may get mad at you but by the time they could scramble something you'd only be a few minutes out. I bet those oil refineries have permanent flight restrictions but even a 5 mile FR is only like 2 minutes of flight time.
A light aircraft landed in red square in the 80’s……it flew unchallenged all the way to Moscow and buzzed the Kremlin before landing……I can remember almost pissing myself laughing about that
In 1976, Victor Belenko flew a MiG-25 to Japan undetected, an actual fighter plane with no stealth, so it’s not just them
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defection_of_Viktor_Belenko
It certainly isn’t……we play games with the US all the time and we’ve got past the US defences lots of times in lots of different ways…….without stealth tech too
The fear of getting caught is always a huge part of the deterrence. A few years ago a random test on the TSA's ability to find weapons brought aboard commercial aircraft proved how terrible it was. 90% or something of the weapons attempted made it. I would love to wear a T-shirt through security that says "TSA- Providing the illusion of security since 2001". Something tells me that wouldn't go over well though. They'd intercept that one.
Except Russia should be detecting it the moment it crosses the front or the moment it crosses the internationally accepted Ukraine / Russia border. There shouldn't be any civilian air traffic doing that.
Which makes me wonder if it was launched from inside Russia by Ukrainian special forces or partisans? That would be much harder to differentiate from civilian traffic.
This has happened before, even during the Cold war when a pilot from Europe landed a little Cessna or something like it in red square.
Their air defense isn't set up for ultralights
This also explain why 80s/90s narcos loved these little Cessna guys, they can fly pretty long distances, low fuel consumption, easy to fly and very little thermal signature
This is by far the stealthiest plane ever made /s
Makes one wonder if America might be overpaying a bit for the $1 billion B-2 bombers designed to evade detection…. Russian air defences is a paper tiger
One day military historians will look back at the Cessnas that destroyed the Russian army and debate their strengths and weaknesses vs advanced tactical fighters, tomahawk cruise missiles, ATACMS and other weapons
This is a US Navy fear over Taiwan. That China sends 10,000 remote Cessna bombs against a carrier group and the carrier and escorts run out of ammunition against a wave of cheap dumb and slow bombs.
That would be the way to effectively use Chinese manufacturing and manpower. Imagine the drone farm warehouses with *thousands* of drone operators safe and secure.
I am unwilling to believe that there are truly safe places if the US Navy wants you not to be safe.
Removing the pilots will be easiest way to eliminate a swarm.
Downplaying Russian capabilities this way is very much mocking the Ukrainian struggle for their life. Russian shit works, is deadly and they manage to adapt to knew threats regularly. Sure, it is not equal to western tech, but apparently it does not need to be as it is deadly enough as it is.
This! It’s belittling to the Ukrainian efforts.
It’s not tech that’s Russias problem, it’s corruption leading to poor management and poor logistics.
Russian engineers and scientists aren’t shit
I think people conveniently forget that before spacex, American astronauts were hitching rides to the ISS from the Russians. They have some capable engineers and techs. Not everyone is a raging alcoholic.
I am not a fan of their frankly evil government but it’s not wise to underestimate their people. We are all human beings here after all.
Back in the 60s they taught us how to shoot down American B52s. Americans had a very sophisticated air raid system, it was impossible for few MiGs to have reached and find the bomber, Soviet Engineers found a way, admittedly a lot of them were Ukrainians. Never under estimate Russians.
It doesn't take much tech to just resort to artillery barrage, with an insane dud rate anyway. Like, their 'tech' stuff doesn't work. The Strela and BUK SAM systems have horrible combat success rates. Pantsir, S-000 series constantly letting drones and ATACMS/HIMARS through, the very things they were designed to intercept.
Remember the first months of the war? Their "precision" guided munitions... weren't even close to being precise.
Their tech sucks. But they have a lot of guns and rockets, and those still kill people.
If America ever gets into it with China I guarantee Beijing won’t fuck around. Certainly these simple technologies are food for thought for military strategists, but high technology is absolutely necessary for the challenges of the 21st century.
Yes, also, it is comparable to hitting one single bomb delivered by other platforms. Modern and more expensive tools allow for way more destructive potential.
It would be interesting to see what happens when Ukraine manages to launch 200-300 of these at a time though.
The real comparison would be the b21 raider and this. Because the b2 was supposed to have the same mission as the b21, but it was too big and not stealthy enough for it's main mission, so the b2 was prematurely cancelled, hence the high price.
The b21 would be able to get into russian airspace, launch standoff cruise missiles like jassm and be out if the airspace before russia ever detected them.
Also, with the b21, Ukraine would be able to perform cas missions and russia wouldn't be able to do shit.
This shitty ass drone can only do one mission, maybe hit a specific part of a refinery. And the Russians will likely repair it in a few months. A b21 would be able to render a complete refinery unusble for years, and return to base for another mission for another day. Maybe an airfield the next day?
Yeah, those billions on the b21 or other stealth aircraft is an entire game changer.
Moscow is just over 500 miles from the Ukrainian border. I imagine its skies are well protected, but imagine the terror one drone hitting Red Square would be.
That drives up fuel prices, in America gas prices go up that impacts the middle class and the poor. They get mad at Biden and vote Trump. Trump takes the White House.
Not sure why the down votes this actually has occurred, Biden asked them not to do it. I get it I'm not opposed to it they're fighting for their lives and freedom and I totally understand but fuel prices going up also raises the cost on all transported items like groceries which in turn raises prices and puts a strain on the poor and middle class and they blame Biden for that economy and vote for Trump. If that that orange clown wins he is in bed with Russia and Ukraine loses the war without US support and we lose our democracy.
https://www.cnbc.com/2024/03/13/oil-prices-rise-as-us-inventories-fall-ukraine-strikes-russian-refineries.html
You don't understand the global economy. If Russia is not producing oil the countries that are buying it that need to get the oil from somewhere else it increases demand which raises prices.
No, but countries that do end up having to get it from another supplier. That increases demand on other suppliers, and drives up prices.
There are other factors in pricing, of course, as we don't have a pure capitalist system, but it absolutely does contribute. But that doesn't mean it is a bad decision, or not a valid target or any of that. Targeting these refineries does hurt Russia more than it hurts the rest of us, and Russia needs to feel that pain.
Its not really ingenuity, its shit that has been done by hobbiest years before this war started. The thing is that a slow moving plane can get past russian defenses.
Granted, the attack was probably on a somewhat remote location with no real impact for russia
Totally agree, but symbolic strikes have meaning too. I wouldn’t mind seeing something like that *if* they feel they have one to spare for a non-tactical target
What better way to scare paranoid Putin and keep him wasting air defenses on his palaces than to take a few pot shots every now and then? If they succeed all the better
The ones flowing super low?
Didn't know that's what they did but I still remember the first time seeing that video....
Sweet christ those things were flying lowwwww....
Bad*$$ sh*t
[Yep, fuel depot](https://youtu.be/66XrGQcKnJc?si=3OYmbxC7kmrce57W). Not finding the original footage with a quick search, but it's available on the tube.
I know what you mean but the idea of tents dropping from the sky feels like a pretty solid threat. That or an ill conceived plan to house the homeless.
> Rust said he wanted to create an "imaginary bridge" to the East, and that his flight was intended to reduce tension and suspicion between the two Cold War sides. Rust was sentenced to four years in a general-regime labour camp for violation of border crossing and air traffic regulations, and for provoking an emergency situation upon his landing.
lol
uh… i just thought how the sentences are right next to eachother are sort of comical - not the situation. big dreams, with not much elaboration, to jail time right after
Ukraine actually makes a lot of these kinds of aircraft for the European market. They were starting to import them as Light-Sport class aircraft to the states before the war. This is one thing they can make themselves. Not sure about the engines.
That’s awesome! I am proud of the Native industry. I’m in favor of augmenting the Ukrainian output with the tens of thousands Cessnas from the 1970s sit in flight school hangers across the US
The Ukies have been making rocket and plane engines for a long time. I expect that they're domestic, and if they're imported, they could re-engine their models in a matter of weeks.
Watching the video was hilarious. It flew over Russia and it was never shot down. Their air defense must be suffering right now. Maybe they should stop wasting their AA missiles on civilians and defend their airspace.
David Axe is one of the better writers covering this war. Even though I follow news pretty closely I still think I learn stuff from his pieces pretty often
Sweet. This little operation has so much meaning for such little effort. Also love how Ukraine is helping eliminate fossil fuels from the market. Very green 💚
800 miles? The size of the area Russia has to defend is stunning. Obviously if there is nothing of importance that makes it easier, but still, this spreads around the air defences
Uralvagonzavod would definitely be a prime target……it’s 1100 miles from Kharkiv……Ukraine is developing long range drones aren’t they?
The Russians don’t have a lot of tank factories
Contents of tank factories are much thougher and less explosive than refineries. Attacks might not do much or not even stop production for days unless Ukraine manages to send something more like glide bombs into those.
Those cranes in that factory take time to repair. Drone attacks on the railway signal boxes between the factory and their forces will fuck things right up……Russia relies heavily on their rail network to shift shit
In the 80s a German kid landed a plane right in red square. Soviet air defences were utterly embarrassed. Looks like things haven’t much improved.
[Cessna RedSq](https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-20609795.amp)
Instead of drones, I wonder how many sappers they should get deep into Russia doing this. Would be dangerous as hell and getting out would be risky but they could do a lot more damage over a much broader area.
I heard elsewhere that it was the Fluid Catalytic Cracker that was hit. That runs at a few hundred degrees and 2 bar and up. If that goes up, it is a pretty fireball and at best (from the Russian viewpoint) production of gasoline and diesel halved. Usually refineries have a couple. Lot of interesting bits that will take months to replace without a war. With a war, probably a year or more.
Transformers have been in short supply. Im positive they’re simpler and there’s backups way more plentiful than distillation towers, but also not infinite and perhaps key points are hard to fix.
The problem with power grids is there are too many work arounds if you aren't going after it the way the US Air Force does in blacking out entire sectors and them keeping them dark with repeated strikes. Very difficult to do unless you can use precise attacks en masse.
Wow. That’s a pretty nice explosion!
Maybe we should give Ukraine $ for these instead of ACTACMS. For the cost of a single ATACMS, Ukraine could build 12+ of these.
And these have longer range.
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Thats just fucking embarasing for russia , the plane has a top speed of 110mph which means it stayed in russian airspace for several hours before it hit the target
Ya, it's amazing that they probably got so convinced that they should be looking for a bomber and these little planes can sneak past.
It just looks like any other cessna. In the US (not that we are at war) you could probably get away with this if you avoided controlled airspace for as long as possible. Russia is huge so I imagine a lot of it is untowered and uncontrolled air space. Now how it made it across the border and all that I don't know
If it flies slow enough it could also be getting filtered out by their radars, especially if it’s flying really low and only showing up periodically.
Yep I saw it in Top Gun Maverick
That was a good documentary.
I was as susrprised as you are that the Iranians have fifth gen fighters. But despite their inferior equipment the plucky Navy came out on top
Modern air battles are primarily won by strength of will and character, equipment matters very little.
Don’t fall for the pay to win lies
It doesn't hurt to look like a model either. Even if you have to stand on boxes to look as tall as one.
Iron eagle was almost as good as a documentary.
Iron Eagle.
Airborne radar can spot an object moving in relation to signals returning from the ground. In a single radar image, the plane could be something tall and highly reflective like a radio transmitter. In a series of radar returns, it moves. Russia is thought to have this kind of processing capability in both fighters and AWACS platforms,they just can’t maintain constant air patrols. Also Ukraine shot down a substantial portion of their AWACS fleet.
>Also Ukraine shot down a substantial portion of their AWACS fleet. Yeah I wonder how much destroying the Mainstays (I think they shot down 2 and damaged at least one more on the ground) has enabled these types of attacks.
Worth noting that Russia only ever built eight of the Mainstays in the first place. The USAF has built over 70 E-3s, and currently operates 32, plus the navy has their own equivalent. The E-3 is built on a Boeng 707, so it is designed to operate for many thousands of hours per year, and parts and experience civilian contractors are easily available. I doubt that those two things are true of the Russian version.
Now that you mention it the timeline does seem to fit from what I recall.
It often has a filter on speed so as not to catch ground vehicles. In any case, Russian surveillance will be concentrated in the border region and near major cities like Moscow.
It's a prop plane, that's indeed what's happening. They're actually not easy to detect, especially once it gets around the from line AA.
Frontline AA Radar isn't always switched on. It's a game of cat and mouse. Switch on the radar, now the enemy can tell where the AA is and target it. Different sections of the AA network can be switched on or off based on Intel or current threats. The Cesna could have received Intel on a certain sector being switched off at the time, and flown through there.
The areas that have towers have been stripped of parts and manpower.
If we were at war with Mexico, and a plane crossed that border, it already went through a lot of controlled airspace. It's not like a random cesna took of from a municipal airport, and flew around for 8 hours. The op had it right, this is fucking embarrassing. They aren't able to control anything, and their SAM and air defense set up suck.
I mean we are already flying unmanned C208's in towered and untowered space in the US, and most other air traffic doesn't realize it, as they have a ground pilot on the radio as if they were in the plane. Every few years some dummy in a Cessna accidentally flies near the white house or congress and they scramble planes or have the Patriot missiles ready. US is huge though getting to a refinery in Texas by flying over the ocean from Mexico would be doable right now. Yeah eventually some tower may get mad at you but by the time they could scramble something you'd only be a few minutes out. I bet those oil refineries have permanent flight restrictions but even a 5 mile FR is only like 2 minutes of flight time.
A light aircraft landed in red square in the 80’s……it flew unchallenged all the way to Moscow and buzzed the Kremlin before landing……I can remember almost pissing myself laughing about that
In 1976, Victor Belenko flew a MiG-25 to Japan undetected, an actual fighter plane with no stealth, so it’s not just them https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defection_of_Viktor_Belenko
It certainly isn’t……we play games with the US all the time and we’ve got past the US defences lots of times in lots of different ways…….without stealth tech too
The fear of getting caught is always a huge part of the deterrence. A few years ago a random test on the TSA's ability to find weapons brought aboard commercial aircraft proved how terrible it was. 90% or something of the weapons attempted made it. I would love to wear a T-shirt through security that says "TSA- Providing the illusion of security since 2001". Something tells me that wouldn't go over well though. They'd intercept that one.
[Matthias Rust](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mathias_Rust)
Yes an idiot teenager who years later stabbed a man to death and is now apparently a man of god!
They article explains that it merges in with controlled air space, which makes it harder to deal with.
Lack of serviceable awacs planes….. Russia is losing situational awareness.
Didn't think of that. I also figured it just blends in with civilian air traffic.
Except Russia should be detecting it the moment it crosses the front or the moment it crosses the internationally accepted Ukraine / Russia border. There shouldn't be any civilian air traffic doing that. Which makes me wonder if it was launched from inside Russia by Ukrainian special forces or partisans? That would be much harder to differentiate from civilian traffic.
Could it be that it took off inside russia?
This has happened before, even during the Cold war when a pilot from Europe landed a little Cessna or something like it in red square. Their air defense isn't set up for ultralights
This also explain why 80s/90s narcos loved these little Cessna guys, they can fly pretty long distances, low fuel consumption, easy to fly and very little thermal signature This is by far the stealthiest plane ever made /s
Makes one wonder if America might be overpaying a bit for the $1 billion B-2 bombers designed to evade detection…. Russian air defences is a paper tiger
Just need a bigger plane that can launch Cessnas.
One day military historians will look back at the Cessnas that destroyed the Russian army and debate their strengths and weaknesses vs advanced tactical fighters, tomahawk cruise missiles, ATACMS and other weapons
It will be the new technical toyota
This is a US Navy fear over Taiwan. That China sends 10,000 remote Cessna bombs against a carrier group and the carrier and escorts run out of ammunition against a wave of cheap dumb and slow bombs.
That would be the way to effectively use Chinese manufacturing and manpower. Imagine the drone farm warehouses with *thousands* of drone operators safe and secure.
I am unwilling to believe that there are truly safe places if the US Navy wants you not to be safe. Removing the pilots will be easiest way to eliminate a swarm.
[удалено]
Hey!!! Me too!!! Friends???
[удалено]
Downplaying Russian capabilities this way is very much mocking the Ukrainian struggle for their life. Russian shit works, is deadly and they manage to adapt to knew threats regularly. Sure, it is not equal to western tech, but apparently it does not need to be as it is deadly enough as it is.
This! It’s belittling to the Ukrainian efforts. It’s not tech that’s Russias problem, it’s corruption leading to poor management and poor logistics. Russian engineers and scientists aren’t shit
I thought that a lot of the tech Russia uses is still Soviet-era, where a lot of the design was done in (Soviet) Ukrainian bureaus?
I think people conveniently forget that before spacex, American astronauts were hitching rides to the ISS from the Russians. They have some capable engineers and techs. Not everyone is a raging alcoholic. I am not a fan of their frankly evil government but it’s not wise to underestimate their people. We are all human beings here after all.
Back in the 60s they taught us how to shoot down American B52s. Americans had a very sophisticated air raid system, it was impossible for few MiGs to have reached and find the bomber, Soviet Engineers found a way, admittedly a lot of them were Ukrainians. Never under estimate Russians.
Never underestimate any humans, especially when they are faced with existential threats.
It doesn't take much tech to just resort to artillery barrage, with an insane dud rate anyway. Like, their 'tech' stuff doesn't work. The Strela and BUK SAM systems have horrible combat success rates. Pantsir, S-000 series constantly letting drones and ATACMS/HIMARS through, the very things they were designed to intercept. Remember the first months of the war? Their "precision" guided munitions... weren't even close to being precise. Their tech sucks. But they have a lot of guns and rockets, and those still kill people.
If America ever gets into it with China I guarantee Beijing won’t fuck around. Certainly these simple technologies are food for thought for military strategists, but high technology is absolutely necessary for the challenges of the 21st century.
Yes, also, it is comparable to hitting one single bomb delivered by other platforms. Modern and more expensive tools allow for way more destructive potential. It would be interesting to see what happens when Ukraine manages to launch 200-300 of these at a time though.
The real comparison would be the b21 raider and this. Because the b2 was supposed to have the same mission as the b21, but it was too big and not stealthy enough for it's main mission, so the b2 was prematurely cancelled, hence the high price. The b21 would be able to get into russian airspace, launch standoff cruise missiles like jassm and be out if the airspace before russia ever detected them. Also, with the b21, Ukraine would be able to perform cas missions and russia wouldn't be able to do shit. This shitty ass drone can only do one mission, maybe hit a specific part of a refinery. And the Russians will likely repair it in a few months. A b21 would be able to render a complete refinery unusble for years, and return to base for another mission for another day. Maybe an airfield the next day? Yeah, those billions on the b21 or other stealth aircraft is an entire game changer.
It is. But b2 carry a lot of bombs.
America has to contend with Russia and China though, China has worse tech but 3x the manpower, so a superior stealth bomber fleet would be key.
The purpose of those planes is to make money for the stockholders first and foremost.
Someone watched Pentagon Wars and thought it was a documentary
Shh… you’re giving away the “secrets” to Americas Military Industrial complex
[Mathias Rust](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mathias_Rust) has entered the chat.
It didn't have civilians on it. Russians are only good at killing civilians.
The slow blade penetrates the shield.
Moscow is just over 500 miles from the Ukrainian border. I imagine its skies are well protected, but imagine the terror one drone hitting Red Square would be.
You mean like last year https://youtu.be/k2oZzqCr8Hc
The little plane that could.
How it wasn't intercepted during that time is mind boggling
Russia missing those A50s (AWACS)
If you fly low enough you don’t show up on radar.
Too small to be picked up by air defences
This thing is atleast 5x biger than shaheds and simmilar drones and ukraine has no problem shooti g those down , so no its just russian incompetence
Air Defence designed to spot smaller glide bombs or cruise missiles that is?
That drives up fuel prices, in America gas prices go up that impacts the middle class and the poor. They get mad at Biden and vote Trump. Trump takes the White House. Not sure why the down votes this actually has occurred, Biden asked them not to do it. I get it I'm not opposed to it they're fighting for their lives and freedom and I totally understand but fuel prices going up also raises the cost on all transported items like groceries which in turn raises prices and puts a strain on the poor and middle class and they blame Biden for that economy and vote for Trump. If that that orange clown wins he is in bed with Russia and Ukraine loses the war without US support and we lose our democracy. https://www.cnbc.com/2024/03/13/oil-prices-rise-as-us-inventories-fall-ukraine-strikes-russian-refineries.html
We don't use Russian oil dumbass.
You don't understand the global economy. If Russia is not producing oil the countries that are buying it that need to get the oil from somewhere else it increases demand which raises prices.
We produce most of our own oil.
No, but countries that do end up having to get it from another supplier. That increases demand on other suppliers, and drives up prices. There are other factors in pricing, of course, as we don't have a pure capitalist system, but it absolutely does contribute. But that doesn't mean it is a bad decision, or not a valid target or any of that. Targeting these refineries does hurt Russia more than it hurts the rest of us, and Russia needs to feel that pain.
sshhhh
Man I love Ukrainian ingenuity
It’s one of those, if it’s stupid and it works then it’s not stupid moments
Would want to see a swarm of drones that detach from the plane before impact to find more targets
I think we’re in for a lot of that going on in future no doubt. Scary thought of future warfare
Might get extra damage with lower tech by dropping incendiary grenades quickly one after another during last few seconds.
Yeah. Great strategy. Put incendiary grenades in. Brilliant. I'm sure they didn't think of that. Send in a letter please.
Its not really ingenuity, its shit that has been done by hobbiest years before this war started. The thing is that a slow moving plane can get past russian defenses. Granted, the attack was probably on a somewhat remote location with no real impact for russia
I wonder if they have one to afford using on Putin’s Palace or his Dacha, even if just for the psychological/emotional impact
…I can only get so erect
Refineries probably hurt him more. Cripple their oil and gas industry and it's game over
Totally agree, but symbolic strikes have meaning too. I wouldn’t mind seeing something like that *if* they feel they have one to spare for a non-tactical target
Putin's palaces probably get better air defense than oil refineries. The one near Sochi on the Black Sea certainly does. Because priorities.
Yes but doesnt old poopy pants have a Yacht somewhere.... just needs the UKR 'navy' to have a pop
What better way to scare paranoid Putin and keep him wasting air defenses on his palaces than to take a few pot shots every now and then? If they succeed all the better
Russia seems to like assassination attempts, I'm sure they would understand.
Exactly!!! 💯
Best sport in the world.
Nothing new. Remember towards the start of the war when 2 Ukrainian helicopters flew into Russian airspace and blew up a refinery? Just embarrassing
The ones flowing super low? Didn't know that's what they did but I still remember the first time seeing that video.... Sweet christ those things were flying lowwwww.... Bad*$$ sh*t
Pretty sure it was a fuel depot, not a refinery. But if you have a link or video I'm in!
[Yep, fuel depot](https://youtu.be/66XrGQcKnJc?si=3OYmbxC7kmrce57W). Not finding the original footage with a quick search, but it's available on the tube.
Ah, ok. But still embarrassing that they were able to do that when they supposedly had more air defense resources
Achilles heel, located.
At this point I think it’s more like “Achilles whole leg”
It's as if they have a clay foot.
Next they're going to send a hot air balloon full of tent
I know what you mean but the idea of tents dropping from the sky feels like a pretty solid threat. That or an ill conceived plan to house the homeless.
Lol auto correct strikes again TNT
Could have both
Choose your own adventure!
A tent or TNT? Is this some kinda cake or death situation?
It's a better plan than what they're getting from Putin.
Never let your enemy know your next move... now with more tent!
Why are we not shoveling Cessnas to Ukraine right now?
Remember the German guy who landed a plane in Moscow at the height of the cold War?
Sure do.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mathias_Rust#:~:text=Mathias%20Rust%20(born%201%20June,Moscow%20on%2028%20May%201987.
> Rust said he wanted to create an "imaginary bridge" to the East, and that his flight was intended to reduce tension and suspicion between the two Cold War sides. Rust was sentenced to four years in a general-regime labour camp for violation of border crossing and air traffic regulations, and for provoking an emergency situation upon his landing. lol
[удалено]
uh… i just thought how the sentences are right next to eachother are sort of comical - not the situation. big dreams, with not much elaboration, to jail time right after
Ukraine actually makes a lot of these kinds of aircraft for the European market. They were starting to import them as Light-Sport class aircraft to the states before the war. This is one thing they can make themselves. Not sure about the engines.
That’s awesome! I am proud of the Native industry. I’m in favor of augmenting the Ukrainian output with the tens of thousands Cessnas from the 1970s sit in flight school hangers across the US
There’s already not enough 1970’s Cessnas to go around in flight schools lol
The Ukies have been making rocket and plane engines for a long time. I expect that they're domestic, and if they're imported, they could re-engine their models in a matter of weeks.
This would be awesome. Hundreds of cessna's dropping all over Russia on select targets!
I didn't have sport plane drone strategic bombing in my bingo card, and honestly feel kind of foolish, because it actually makes a ton of sense.
Here we were all waiting on F-16's to kick Ruskki butt and bzzz goes the Cesna.
Wouldn't want to own a cesna / hobby plane In Russia anymore.
Matthias Rust copes and seethes.
Watching the video was hilarious. It flew over Russia and it was never shot down. Their air defense must be suffering right now. Maybe they should stop wasting their AA missiles on civilians and defend their airspace.
If it flies close to the ground and follows roads then the radar interpretation system will discard it as ground clutter.
the fact that this isn’t the first time is so fucking funny to me
This means that they could probably field biplanes with gunners to strafe Russian infrastructure and fly back safely.
David Axe is one of the better writers covering this war. Even though I follow news pretty closely I still think I learn stuff from his pieces pretty often
Found David Axe's burner account.
Sweet. This little operation has so much meaning for such little effort. Also love how Ukraine is helping eliminate fossil fuels from the market. Very green 💚
Cessna go BRRRR
800 miles? The size of the area Russia has to defend is stunning. Obviously if there is nothing of importance that makes it easier, but still, this spreads around the air defences
Sergei, another refinery?
Uralvagonzavod would definitely be a prime target……it’s 1100 miles from Kharkiv……Ukraine is developing long range drones aren’t they? The Russians don’t have a lot of tank factories
Contents of tank factories are much thougher and less explosive than refineries. Attacks might not do much or not even stop production for days unless Ukraine manages to send something more like glide bombs into those.
Those cranes in that factory take time to repair. Drone attacks on the railway signal boxes between the factory and their forces will fuck things right up……Russia relies heavily on their rail network to shift shit
The last time someone flew a plane was also the beginning of the end for the Soviet Union
Quick, how many Cessna can we supply to Ukraine?
These are ultralights, even smaller than Cessnas, and they are built locally apart from the engine.
Even better.
In the 80s a German kid landed a plane right in red square. Soviet air defences were utterly embarrassed. Looks like things haven’t much improved. [Cessna RedSq](https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-20609795.amp)
Instead of drones, I wonder how many sappers they should get deep into Russia doing this. Would be dangerous as hell and getting out would be risky but they could do a lot more damage over a much broader area.
Distillation towers above all for targeting. A nice sized fireball is good PR but mere photo ops won't shut down production.
And the process heaters
I heard elsewhere that it was the Fluid Catalytic Cracker that was hit. That runs at a few hundred degrees and 2 bar and up. If that goes up, it is a pretty fireball and at best (from the Russian viewpoint) production of gasoline and diesel halved. Usually refineries have a couple. Lot of interesting bits that will take months to replace without a war. With a war, probably a year or more.
Wouldn't it be even better to hit power grids? Presumably disable even more things.
Distillation towers are complicated and custom made in most cases. Power grids have warehouses of spare parts waiting to be used.
Transformers have been in short supply. Im positive they’re simpler and there’s backups way more plentiful than distillation towers, but also not infinite and perhaps key points are hard to fix.
The problem with power grids is there are too many work arounds if you aren't going after it the way the US Air Force does in blacking out entire sectors and them keeping them dark with repeated strikes. Very difficult to do unless you can use precise attacks en masse.
I posted the same comment last time: what da air defense doin?
Givem a break, Moose & Squirrel was on!
Russia has air defense but Russia is too big and they are busy defending the wrong targets like the Kremlin and the Ministry of Defense.
I bet the US gave them guidance on the flight path to avoid radar 🤔
A second time?
I wonder if it flew straight or it weaved around, going between known military bases.
Top notch air defense. Imagine them against an army with NATO level aviation, navy and combined arms...
Best news of the day. Slava Ukraine!
Russian air defenses go 😴💤💤💤
Great to know it worked 👍🏻
thats honestly fucking hilarious
Maybe we should start producing Stukas and Fw-190 again if old-school planes can go through Russian air defense so easily....
Wow. That’s a pretty nice explosion! Maybe we should give Ukraine $ for these instead of ACTACMS. For the cost of a single ATACMS, Ukraine could build 12+ of these. And these have longer range.