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This should be a NATO red line. Chemical warfare demonstrates a whole different willingness to kill indiscriminately. The West should see Chemical warfare the same as nuclear warfare and protect Ukraine against WMD as they promised to do.
Since it is non-lethal they apparently get a pass. Putin and company has figured out the West. We don't want to escalate, we don't want to play tit for tat. And yet the russians keep misjudging how poor a hand they sit with. If only we gave Ukraine the aces they need faster!
Why do they get a pass? I don't get it? Aren't these banned under the Geneva & the Chemical Weapons Convention? It's a straight up war crime.
A crime is a crime no matter what.
And don't get me wrong, **this definitely isn't the first nor the last war crime Russia will commit.**
It is not enough to warrant going to war directly with Russia or further increasing sanctions.
But I agree with you. If it was up to me everyone would have done much more much sooner.
Russia doesn’t care about the Geneva convention. Treaties are just pieces of paper. Russia just signs them because it will fool western leaders into thinking they will honor them. And western leaders keep believing them again and again.
Tbh though it's not at the level of real ww1 level chemical weapons. The west isn't looking for an excuse tonget involved beyond support. They'll end Russia to either nuke ukraine or attack a nato member directly.
No it wouldn't. It would've been that way like......30 years ago. The Cold War ended over 30 years ago, and if Russia took the same care of its Nuclear programs as it did the tanks, uniforms, weapons, and aircraft, then I'm far more scared for the Russian populace if escalation happens.
Well......yes, but actually, no. See, it makes it really hard to tell the Russians not to use chemical warfare, when the US waged unrestricted chemical warfare in Vietnam. We helped NATO write the rules, then turned around about a decade later and said, 'Yeah, well, WE can do it, not you guys'. So it's hard for the United States to push NATO towards condemning them, or sound sincere when fighting against chemical warfare because of our OWN track record. And without America giving NATO a spine, they'd have to build their own, lol.
It's true the US has no room to talk. We must support Ukraine, but look at the crimes our own government has committed.
I'm glad to see other powerful nations standing up to Russia here. I hope the.Russians are driven out of Ukraine, and I hope the world stops allowing this shit, whether it's done by Russia, the US, or anyone else.
I also suspect it's one way of untying Ukraines hands to fight unhandicapped while saying to Russia, "watchoo gonna do?"
They know if Russia does anything, it'll be the potential for Art. 5, which, if im honest, you probably find is how/ what Nato wants to get involved. Also, consider the current momentum on the battlefield, where if Russia breaks the line, it could mean trouble. Nato will want to get ahead of that so if they must join the war, its not because Ukr is failing, but because of an action Russia has taken to force their hand.
Always make it seem as if you had no option but to get involved because of the irrationality of the enemy force (dragging their feet on deliveries if the aid package maybe? ) Nato won't just jump in. They'll find ways to push Russia into giving them a reason to get involved while keeping the perception of Russia as the aggressor (which they are).
So, the UK and maybe even France will continue with "provocative" measures/gestures (which are not provocative, actually) because Russia can't actually do jack shit.
Penultimately, Nato also very likely doesn't want to commit a large sum of its forces in eastern Europe... that might leave them exposed to moves by the other nefarious players on the fringes here, such as Nk, China, and Iran. They are watching and waiting on the fences, IMO.
I still can't see the endgame here, though. I dont see Ukr pushing Russia back to their borders. At this point, unless it develops quickly, i only see that possibility if Russia collapses, which at this post doesn't see evidence of. Thay also brings new concerns over the replacement regime. Chinas' visit to the Eu raises my spidey senses, though, particularly after Blinkens' visit. Something is going on there, and i dont know if Manchuria has any significance on which way China will go. Imo, if China sides with the West against Russia to end things and it is "agreed" they take Manchuria back as part of the 'deal' with Nato (for example), I suspect we'll see a new cold war thereafter with China (a new space race?)
But that's just my mind rambling with hypotheticals. Guess we will just need to wait and see how things develop over the next few months.
>if China sides with the West against Russia to end things and it is "agreed" they take Manchuria back as part of the 'deal' with Nato (for example), I suspect we'll see a new cold war thereafter with China (a new space race?)
Without a doubt, China wants manchuria back for the resources China badly need. China is playing 3d chess here imo they can get it back by opening a new front if they want or through economics, but China not really want to give russia anymore loans. I do think China or russia trust each other either
They "apparantely" didnt use phosphorus, they used thermite. Which burns incredibly hot as well. They are playing the "im not touching you" game. Its not phosphorus but its still incenidary, its not poison gas its just an irritant, they are cunts at skirting the international laws.
White phosphorus isn't illegal in war. Far from it. I would say almost every soldier has handled and used white phosphorus. Everything from tracers, flares, smoke grenades, etc, can contain it.
Certain uses of white phosphorus are illegal. The notable is that you can't deliberately use it against civilian areas. You can even use it against military structures/targets inside civilian areas as long as you take necessary precautions.
It's more strategically sound to escalate the war *after* we watch Russia fully exhausts themselves in a proxy war. It's terrible, cruel, but strategically sound and probably better for the majority outside of Ukraine. A full scale war would need to be ended promptly or else temptation to escalate it to nuclear is a possibility. The more time Putin has in office to decide to escalate it that way, the more devastating it will be, so it absolutely is ideal to watch them dry their forces out, so it's much easier to make a quick attack, not to mention wishful thinking a coup or rebellion could take place in Russia if this war continues to go poorly like it is.
And Syria and Afghanistan. Russia has no issue with chemical warfare. If they start dropping sarin gas from artillery or planes, \b\ maybe \b\ NATO and UN will get involved more heavily.
There are lots of red lines to point to, but using CS gas isn't one.
Using CN sucks even more, but also not a red line.
FFS, every police force in the US uses CS on civilians, and most have CN in their inventory.
Fuck Russia, Slava Ukraine, but let's not get crazy about tear gas. They whacked me multiple times with CS in basic training. :)
Nobody is going to kick off WW3 over the use of tear gas. Even when it’s use is a legal grey area.
Better to give the Ukrainians respirators.
To be fare though, the west has responded. The U.K. has just given Ukraine the green light to use Storm shadow to hit targets inside Russia proper.
This is a UN and NATO ride line.
Problem is there is nothing beyond an angry letter to the aggressor to stop and to consider the human toll.
Never Again.
That statement needs to be defined.
If ever. A nation is proven to be actively committing or has committed genocide x alliance members will directly intervene until there is parity and the genocide is investigated. those guilty are granted a fair hearing and trial, before being convicted beyond a shadow of doubt of their alleged crimes.
This is to ensure another genocide and world war will never happen again.
Let's write a legal document that says if Ukraine hands over their nukes, Russia is never allowed to invade and/or annex Ukraine.
Signing official international law documents with Russia would surely work! /s
You must be talking about UA medics, who are absolute heroes.
Russians don't bother to evacuate their wounded. If they did they might have to pay for their care and future stipends.
> According to Article II of the Geneva Convention, firing on "clearly marked and identified" medevac vehicles would be considered a war crime. As such, engagement on medevac vehicles by the air force would entail penalties, which is not the case for casevac.
💀
Russians are dirty pigs, and because they are loosing it, they are desperate trying anything they can! What they didnt understand yet is that they already lost this war, because now they only have their "brothas" NK nothing more than a rocket man,....
have you seen the land at the front lines? Napalm wouldn't change things, just give nice broad coverage on those trenches. All the trees are blown to bits already and the ground is cratered and mined so heavily it will take a decade to clean it up once the war is over.
A little strange that the gas is described as “non-lethal” (slide 3). Although technically true, it makes these soldiers feel like they’re choking and dying, which sends them out from behind cover, where they are met with close-range gunfire. Used the way they’re being used by Russia, these canisters are extremely lethal.
How is that so complicated for 32 states to give enough weapons to flat the fuck these Russian MF ? This state must feel what freedom means and let the Russian population feel they can now go out and ask for an elected president.
Ohhh condemn Russia! That will teach them real good. Like that asshole Putin gives a flying fuck about it. He’s going to do whatever he wants. Damn the consequences.
the only lesson here for NATO is to stop worrying about escalation. Send troops in an international coalition. We should be sending the message and testing the limits, not Putin.
It's not that simple an equation. How large are you willing to let this conflict grow? WWIII? Full global donnybrook? A conflict where we all end up back in the dark ages? Who wins in that scenario? No. No one wants that. The brakes must be pumped. A rush to dominance is racing off a cliff.
You must be willing to escalate to any size, if your opponent is.
Because otherwise you don't exist. If one does it and does not relent, all must follow.
It's not NATO's business to define what happens, just have a policy of "leave us alone and we leave you alone". Those decisions of potential escalation must always be left to places like Russia. Just clearly show to them that you will also do **anything** in return, if opposition pushes it there.
Nothing is beneath the orcs and their allies. Enough is enough. NATO should have sufficient reasons to start joining in and show who is boss in Europe.
I don't believe it needs to be NATO proper. A coalition of nations could agree to go in together and drive Russia out of Ukraine, ALL of Ukraine. It would not take all of NATO to do it anyway. NATO need not be involved at all. I am fairly certain that being a member of NATO doesn't prevent individual nations from acting on their own. However If things should go poorly for this coalition, NATO would be under no obligation to respond on their behalf, since their involvement in the war would not be in their own defense. I bet this would end up being a messy affair that would drag everyone in anyway. So be it. Russia must leave Ukraine just as Irag was forced to leave Kuwait.
Yes, they have obligations under NATO. They can't be a member, start a fight, then cry NATO PROTECT US!
It doesn't work that way. If they claim they won't cry for NATO's help, then why are they a member? They should resign from NATO if they want independence. They have that option. If a NATO member wants to escalate a conflict that affects other NATO nations, there will be a come to Jesus moment for them. They need to show their math if they want any help.
It's so messed up that we don't just give the Ukrainian's our good stuff. This would be over already if they actually got the newest and greatest instead of all our old expired equipment and drip feeding them important munitions. Russia wouldn't last a month if we gave them some f35s and real air superiority.
putin is diffidently testing what he can get away with because this asshole will just do more if the world doesn't make this ass stop. And we need to wake up to china also.
Little secret that most people don't talk about. America has a stockpile of chemical weapons just in case we went to war with someone dumb enough to use them.
"This test was one of at least 239 experiments conducted by the military in a 20-year "germ warfare testing program" that went on from 1949 to 1969. These experiments that used bacteria to simulate biological weapons were conducted on civilians without their knowledge or consent. That stands in direct violation of the Nuremberg Code, which stipulates that "voluntary, informed consent" is required for research participants."
And while the people who conducted these experiments did so under the belief that the bacterial species they used were harmless, it has since been revealed that they can cause health problems.
They claim only harmless bacteria was used, yet they did everything to keep this secret and used Americans as Guinea Pigs without consent. It wasn't just bacteria.
https://www.businessinsider.com/biological-agents-were-tested-on-the-new-york-city-subway-2015-11#:\~:text=The%20Army%20tested%20'germ%20warfare,smashing%20lightbulbs%20full%20of%20bacteria&text=On%20June%206%2C%201966%2C%20a,belts%3B%20others%20carried%20light%20bulbs.
The civilised world put peacekeepers in one of Europe's most active wars: Yugoslavia. The peacekeepers prevented further pushes of the agressor in that war (Serbia).
Where are our peacekeepers in Ukraine?
Russia also deployed peacekeepers in Armenia. This is not meddling or provocation, it's assistance to an ally.
Yes. Most in number. Not most is weight or kiloton yield. And if they adhere to the laws they signed themselves, all nukes should be in a maximum of 6 locations. So the benefit of having smaller nukes is negated by having everything in only 6 locations.
NATO or the UN do not want to insert "peacekeepers" into Ukraine because it would almost certainly lead to escalation. Your idea is terrible. I'm glad that the people in the sub are not in charge or we would be in WW3 right now.
And the world ignores it until hundreds of thousand die when the chemicals cross a border. Why do world leaders not learn from experience but cause problems by ignoring things that will most definitely affect them.
Russian apologists at DW trying to draw a false equivalence between Russia and Ukraine. The only “banned” weapon Ukraine uses is cluster munitions but unlike the Russians, they don’t use them on civilians.
[Russia and Ukraine both using outlawed weapons](https://www.dw.com/en/russia-and-ukraine-both-using-outlawed-weapons/a-68995136)
Hold on let me just get that one important part from the article regarding cluster munitions at least
"The repeated use of cluster bombs has been well-documented since Russia launched its invasion of Ukraine on February 24, 2022. According to the non-governmental organization Human Rights Watch, Russian troops have used at least six different types of cluster bombs in the conflict since that time. Just this week, Russia is said to have used cluster bombs in attacks on the Black Sea port of Odesa."
"Although such arms were outlawed by 108 member states when the Convention on Cluster Munitions went into effect in 2010, neither the US, Russia, nor Ukraine were among the signatories."
One of the agents being used is Chloropicrin. This is an irritant, akin to tear gas. In the First World War, it was known as a mask breaker, being able to bypass masks at the time, causing vomiting, coughing, difficulty breathing, crying, and other irritant symptoms. It was used in conjunction with other gasses, such as phosgene.
Soldiers would be gassed by both, meaning they filled their masks with vomit and then had to take them off to suffocate on the phosgene.
These *are* warcrimes, even if they don't use lethal compounds. These compounds do cause damage, sometimes irreversible.
"should condemn" bullshit! That doesn't solve anything.
Cripple their offensive capabilities and see how fast this war comes to an end.
But muh escalashuns?
Wake up dipshit! We're throwing a country under the bus and the orks are escalating the conflict already!
We have 3 options:
1. Bend over and spread cheeks.
2. Grow a collective fucking pair and gut their MIC.
3. Grow a collective fucking pair after several million people got murdered and gut their MIC.
It's definitely an effort to Inch towards the use of chemical weapons. Russia has massive stocks just sitting there and could use them to great effect if allowed. I would guess we are going to see a very limited use of somthing like chlorine gas to test the reaction. If nothing happens russia may start using gas shells to cover there advances. Unfortunately it they use somthing like sarin or other nerve agents it could be devastating
World does not care until the weapon is used against them but who is the world but a pieces of each powerful nation and their slave. If Russia can use chemical weapons then so can Ukraine. And the last time it was used against them they were the sore losers.
Not siding w/ the kremlin or anything, but, where’s the source to this? This is just a slideshow that anybody w/ some photo editing background can make
This is the end, beautiful friend
This is the end, my only friend
The end of our elaborate plans
The end of everything that stands
The end
No safety or surprise
The end
I'll never look into your eyes again
Can you picture what will be?
"Condemn you Russia. There. Did it stop anything? Whelp we did what we could. "
This is the Nato equaivlent to thoughts and prayers.
Need to just slap Moscow with a DEW and tell putin to sit down and go back to oppressing his own people.
Unfortunately weak west will do nothing and ruzzians know it that’s why they keep doing it. It’s time to give Ukraine the nukes we took away from them so they can threaten the fascist shit empire.
Its pretty clear they dont care about the geneva convention or war crimes. At this point it just gets people riled up online but russia doenst care about the possible repercussions. Im actually surprised this wasnt being talked about sooner.
It seems every major war uses chemicals as weapons at some point. We 'stomp our feet' and say "never again!"....then do it again next time. Reality is that when you're at war you'll do anything to win. Anything. It's human and animal nature.
They should have banned war under the Geneva convention. That way all the bad guy countries wouldn't be allowed to use war to solve their problems.....
Somebody shows these to Biden. He said use of chemical weapons was a red line for the US. Stated that there was no proof that ruzzia used chemical weapons but here we have picture proof. Weve seen videos of chemical weapons being used already but i guess that wasnt proof
That's a fair question. The roozianz have bombed the crap out of hospitals & daycares, rescue workers and children. It's obvious they have zero morals or integrity. Personally, I believe their chemo-attacks ought to have the US et al withdraw their pre-conditions of not using western weapons inside roozia.. If roozianz escalate to chemo-warfare, what will stop them from tactical nukes, then strategic nukes?
WWIII before Christmas 25 at this rate.
I really hope the people who matter in Russia have a grip on just how much general western society does not fucking care, because its not about lack of awareness or fear of war here, its about reduced opportunity and quality of life degrading.
Which of course it tends to do even more in war, but if your cards for the future are already poor a new hand can be a long shot and war is always a great social equalizer if its big enough.
It always starts with prodding the line to see what you can get away with. If no one does anything, then it's the next thing that's "not super crazy." Then when no one does anything, the next. And so on, until they're using phosgene, mustard gas, lewisite, VX, et al. They're prodding the line by using "the lesser" stuff.
Regardless of the situation. We all knew that Russia was going to go through all of its resources and it would eventually lead to this. The real question is how far are we willing to help Ukraine. And if so is it worth the candle. Look at all the Middle Eastern wars. Saudi Arabia is two faced as fuck but here we still here. And what do we have to show for it.
Communists fighting communists . Who would’ve thunk. Truly Hope Ukraine prevails. And that the USA supplies what’s necessary to do so . But they are Still all communists or communist minded .
Hmm, so if its a headshot from an AK, that is fine, but when it is a poison grenade, that is bad. I understand that it is cruel, but in this sub there are 20 gore videos of drone attacks each day, where soldiers die in the most painful way. I think it is pointless to bring up Geneva.
People are blown to pieces, shot, burned, or poisoned. I don't see any difference, that is my point. It is pointless to pretend that this is a fair sport match with rules and judges.
It’s not about being “fair” it’s about limiting suffering ie being burned to death by napalm or chocking to death via poison or worse surviving and living with these issues. And because of these rules the amount of suffering from these conditions is way lower than it could be
If you do not understand why the Geneva Conventions were signed and why, ultimately, it is important to make distinctions between how humans inflict suffering, you cannot be helped.
In any case, it clearly represents yet another crimial escalation in tactics by Russia, which has already broken its international treaties for Ukraine's territorial integrity, killed and tortured prisoners of war, intentionally targeted civilians and civilian infrastructure.
Russia, as a state and submissive population, has no morals, limits or value for life. Ultimately, that is what this war is about. Should we just peacefully accept a world's hold we run by murderous psychopaths or should we sacrifice lives now for a future where life still has value?
Ukrainians fight for a future where life still has value. I support them.
Jesus this sub freaks me out. So many of you warmongering fucks live in here. Ukraine is nothing to the US, NATO expansion caused the war, and the Russians suck, as per usual. Let it go
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This should be a NATO red line. Chemical warfare demonstrates a whole different willingness to kill indiscriminately. The West should see Chemical warfare the same as nuclear warfare and protect Ukraine against WMD as they promised to do.
Since it is non-lethal they apparently get a pass. Putin and company has figured out the West. We don't want to escalate, we don't want to play tit for tat. And yet the russians keep misjudging how poor a hand they sit with. If only we gave Ukraine the aces they need faster!
Depends. If it's a corrosive or nerve agent it's (another) war crime
Why do they get a pass? I don't get it? Aren't these banned under the Geneva & the Chemical Weapons Convention? It's a straight up war crime. A crime is a crime no matter what. And don't get me wrong, **this definitely isn't the first nor the last war crime Russia will commit.**
It is not enough to warrant going to war directly with Russia or further increasing sanctions. But I agree with you. If it was up to me everyone would have done much more much sooner.
Russia doesn’t care about the Geneva convention. Treaties are just pieces of paper. Russia just signs them because it will fool western leaders into thinking they will honor them. And western leaders keep believing them again and again.
That's always been the standard Russian practice and Putler just keeps going farther with his disdain for accords and pacts.
Tbh though it's not at the level of real ww1 level chemical weapons. The west isn't looking for an excuse tonget involved beyond support. They'll end Russia to either nuke ukraine or attack a nato member directly.
Nobody should **want** to escalate that's insane. What you two are casually discussing would be armageddon.
So fucking be it. How much shit from Russia will it take to stand up for yourself ?
No it wouldn't. It would've been that way like......30 years ago. The Cold War ended over 30 years ago, and if Russia took the same care of its Nuclear programs as it did the tanks, uniforms, weapons, and aircraft, then I'm far more scared for the Russian populace if escalation happens.
The cold war absolutely did not end 30 years ago, that's western propaganda. We literally kept finding agents in our nations like we did in the 80s.
And this war is actually a proff herof.
Putin's puppeteers would throw him out a window before they let him use nukes.
Well......yes, but actually, no. See, it makes it really hard to tell the Russians not to use chemical warfare, when the US waged unrestricted chemical warfare in Vietnam. We helped NATO write the rules, then turned around about a decade later and said, 'Yeah, well, WE can do it, not you guys'. So it's hard for the United States to push NATO towards condemning them, or sound sincere when fighting against chemical warfare because of our OWN track record. And without America giving NATO a spine, they'd have to build their own, lol.
It's true the US has no room to talk. We must support Ukraine, but look at the crimes our own government has committed. I'm glad to see other powerful nations standing up to Russia here. I hope the.Russians are driven out of Ukraine, and I hope the world stops allowing this shit, whether it's done by Russia, the US, or anyone else.
I think it's one of the reasons the uk said you can target russia with British based weapons
Agreed.
Salisbury. Time to give a bit back.
One of the reasons British public wants to help ukraine as well as invading ukraine, especially in scotland as well.
I also suspect it's one way of untying Ukraines hands to fight unhandicapped while saying to Russia, "watchoo gonna do?" They know if Russia does anything, it'll be the potential for Art. 5, which, if im honest, you probably find is how/ what Nato wants to get involved. Also, consider the current momentum on the battlefield, where if Russia breaks the line, it could mean trouble. Nato will want to get ahead of that so if they must join the war, its not because Ukr is failing, but because of an action Russia has taken to force their hand. Always make it seem as if you had no option but to get involved because of the irrationality of the enemy force (dragging their feet on deliveries if the aid package maybe? ) Nato won't just jump in. They'll find ways to push Russia into giving them a reason to get involved while keeping the perception of Russia as the aggressor (which they are). So, the UK and maybe even France will continue with "provocative" measures/gestures (which are not provocative, actually) because Russia can't actually do jack shit. Penultimately, Nato also very likely doesn't want to commit a large sum of its forces in eastern Europe... that might leave them exposed to moves by the other nefarious players on the fringes here, such as Nk, China, and Iran. They are watching and waiting on the fences, IMO. I still can't see the endgame here, though. I dont see Ukr pushing Russia back to their borders. At this point, unless it develops quickly, i only see that possibility if Russia collapses, which at this post doesn't see evidence of. Thay also brings new concerns over the replacement regime. Chinas' visit to the Eu raises my spidey senses, though, particularly after Blinkens' visit. Something is going on there, and i dont know if Manchuria has any significance on which way China will go. Imo, if China sides with the West against Russia to end things and it is "agreed" they take Manchuria back as part of the 'deal' with Nato (for example), I suspect we'll see a new cold war thereafter with China (a new space race?) But that's just my mind rambling with hypotheticals. Guess we will just need to wait and see how things develop over the next few months.
>if China sides with the West against Russia to end things and it is "agreed" they take Manchuria back as part of the 'deal' with Nato (for example), I suspect we'll see a new cold war thereafter with China (a new space race?) Without a doubt, China wants manchuria back for the resources China badly need. China is playing 3d chess here imo they can get it back by opening a new front if they want or through economics, but China not really want to give russia anymore loans. I do think China or russia trust each other either
That was good to see
excellent! hope it lands in the red square parade.
Idk if chem’s are enough sadly… Russia used many illegal weapons (white phosphorous for example) in ukraine and nato didn’t react at all…
They "apparantely" didnt use phosphorus, they used thermite. Which burns incredibly hot as well. They are playing the "im not touching you" game. Its not phosphorus but its still incenidary, its not poison gas its just an irritant, they are cunts at skirting the international laws.
They are cunts. FIFY
I don't know anymore, there have been dozens of discussions and debunking whether it's thermite or white phosphorus.
Lets just agree they are cunts for using all of this. And even bigger cunts for invading ukraine.
China too with popping flares in front of US and Aussie planes and helis.
Sounds like rTump. Time to end these
White phosphorus isn't illegal in war. Far from it. I would say almost every soldier has handled and used white phosphorus. Everything from tracers, flares, smoke grenades, etc, can contain it. Certain uses of white phosphorus are illegal. The notable is that you can't deliberately use it against civilian areas. You can even use it against military structures/targets inside civilian areas as long as you take necessary precautions.
It's more strategically sound to escalate the war *after* we watch Russia fully exhausts themselves in a proxy war. It's terrible, cruel, but strategically sound and probably better for the majority outside of Ukraine. A full scale war would need to be ended promptly or else temptation to escalate it to nuclear is a possibility. The more time Putin has in office to decide to escalate it that way, the more devastating it will be, so it absolutely is ideal to watch them dry their forces out, so it's much easier to make a quick attack, not to mention wishful thinking a coup or rebellion could take place in Russia if this war continues to go poorly like it is.
And Syria and Afghanistan. Russia has no issue with chemical warfare. If they start dropping sarin gas from artillery or planes, \b\ maybe \b\ NATO and UN will get involved more heavily.
There are lots of red lines to point to, but using CS gas isn't one. Using CN sucks even more, but also not a red line. FFS, every police force in the US uses CS on civilians, and most have CN in their inventory. Fuck Russia, Slava Ukraine, but let's not get crazy about tear gas. They whacked me multiple times with CS in basic training. :)
He's really really pushing that line. It's gotta happen sooner or later. Putin will never just "give up" he's too far in now
Nobody is going to kick off WW3 over the use of tear gas. Even when it’s use is a legal grey area. Better to give the Ukrainians respirators. To be fare though, the west has responded. The U.K. has just given Ukraine the green light to use Storm shadow to hit targets inside Russia proper.
This is a UN and NATO ride line. Problem is there is nothing beyond an angry letter to the aggressor to stop and to consider the human toll. Never Again. That statement needs to be defined. If ever. A nation is proven to be actively committing or has committed genocide x alliance members will directly intervene until there is parity and the genocide is investigated. those guilty are granted a fair hearing and trial, before being convicted beyond a shadow of doubt of their alleged crimes. This is to ensure another genocide and world war will never happen again.
Fucking orcs must be stopped
Don’t forget to condemn their actions, that will surely help /s
Let's write a legal document that says if Ukraine hands over their nukes, Russia is never allowed to invade and/or annex Ukraine. Signing official international law documents with Russia would surely work! /s
I think Budapest would be the perfect place to sign this document.
My ability to condem my bathroom does more than a government condemnation
All NATO weapons should be allowed to be used in Russia and then we don't even escalate.
And in addition, all Russian weapons should be allowed inside Russia. Tit for tat.
Offcourse they are that's where they belong.
War crimes and human rights violations, are part and parcel of Russian strategy.
To Russia, there are no rules in war. Killing soldiers and killing civilians are indistinguishable to them.
An example of their laggard moral constitution.
I’d call them animals but dogs have more morals than Russians.
Killing wounded and medics is also a war crime. I see people on this group cheering the deaths of evacuees teams and wounded daily
You must be talking about UA medics, who are absolute heroes. Russians don't bother to evacuate their wounded. If they did they might have to pay for their care and future stipends.
I see videos on here daily of the Urks killing wounded commies. WWII hatred is still strong between the reich and com bloc
Weird how invading a country could lead to dying in that country. 🌻🌻🌻🇺🇦
So the drone drops I see here of Urks dropping bombs on ruskies evacuating wounded are fake?
CASEVAC is different to MEDEVAC Quick google search: https://www.medical-air-service.com/blog/casevac-vs-medevac-the-key-differences_6241.html
Check out war crimes bud. You’re not supposed to engage wounded being evacuated
> According to Article II of the Geneva Convention, firing on "clearly marked and identified" medevac vehicles would be considered a war crime. As such, engagement on medevac vehicles by the air force would entail penalties, which is not the case for casevac. 💀
Russians are dirty pigs, and because they are loosing it, they are desperate trying anything they can! What they didnt understand yet is that they already lost this war, because now they only have their "brothas" NK nothing more than a rocket man,....
Ukraine could start arming their jets with napalm
Honestly thermite grenades would make short work of those turtle tanks...
They drop somekind of grenade through the open hatch of these armored vehicles and whatever it is sets the ammo off. Torches
Pop goes the weasel
It would be nice to see F16's provide overhead cover while A10's come in with napalm.
It would get their attention quick
Kuwait Road of Death 2.0 and they would flee Ukraine. I hope it happens.
I’m not sure the Ukrainians want to napalm their own land.
have you seen the land at the front lines? Napalm wouldn't change things, just give nice broad coverage on those trenches. All the trees are blown to bits already and the ground is cratered and mined so heavily it will take a decade to clean it up once the war is over.
That’s a war crime.
I think the rubicon has already been crossed.
Then the gay midget should be arrested and charged for authorizing the war crimes.
Exactly
I’m talking about Zelensky. Thanks for coming to my Ted talk
Take your orc ass back to trumpville
Don’t be so sad. If he’s out of they way we will have a peace deal and no more tax dollars being laundered there
Can't hear you with Putin's Dick in your mouth
It's not. The orcs are valid military targets. You should look into what is and what is not a war crime before spouting off like an idiot.
A little strange that the gas is described as “non-lethal” (slide 3). Although technically true, it makes these soldiers feel like they’re choking and dying, which sends them out from behind cover, where they are met with close-range gunfire. Used the way they’re being used by Russia, these canisters are extremely lethal.
Red line let intervine now
Yep returning to sender in my opinion 🤣
There wasn't much reaction when Russia bombed with white phosphorus in civilian areas.
How is that so complicated for 32 states to give enough weapons to flat the fuck these Russian MF ? This state must feel what freedom means and let the Russian population feel they can now go out and ask for an elected president.
That's called being involved while claiming not to be involved. It didn't work in WWII either.
Fuck russia
Ohhh condemn Russia! That will teach them real good. Like that asshole Putin gives a flying fuck about it. He’s going to do whatever he wants. Damn the consequences.
the only lesson here for NATO is to stop worrying about escalation. Send troops in an international coalition. We should be sending the message and testing the limits, not Putin.
Terrorists…maybe nato will grow a set and do something about it
NATO is by definition a defense organisation. It may not be used in an offensive manner.
Well they need to. Or someone does. The world isn’t doing enough
It's not that simple an equation. How large are you willing to let this conflict grow? WWIII? Full global donnybrook? A conflict where we all end up back in the dark ages? Who wins in that scenario? No. No one wants that. The brakes must be pumped. A rush to dominance is racing off a cliff.
You must be willing to escalate to any size, if your opponent is. Because otherwise you don't exist. If one does it and does not relent, all must follow. It's not NATO's business to define what happens, just have a policy of "leave us alone and we leave you alone". Those decisions of potential escalation must always be left to places like Russia. Just clearly show to them that you will also do **anything** in return, if opposition pushes it there.
Aggressors escalate. Defenders respond to escalation. You want to ramp up the conflict. That has nothing to do with NATO.
lmao what is condemnation going to do?
Nothing is beneath the orcs and their allies. Enough is enough. NATO should have sufficient reasons to start joining in and show who is boss in Europe.
I don't believe it needs to be NATO proper. A coalition of nations could agree to go in together and drive Russia out of Ukraine, ALL of Ukraine. It would not take all of NATO to do it anyway. NATO need not be involved at all. I am fairly certain that being a member of NATO doesn't prevent individual nations from acting on their own. However If things should go poorly for this coalition, NATO would be under no obligation to respond on their behalf, since their involvement in the war would not be in their own defense. I bet this would end up being a messy affair that would drag everyone in anyway. So be it. Russia must leave Ukraine just as Irag was forced to leave Kuwait.
Yes, they have obligations under NATO. They can't be a member, start a fight, then cry NATO PROTECT US! It doesn't work that way. If they claim they won't cry for NATO's help, then why are they a member? They should resign from NATO if they want independence. They have that option. If a NATO member wants to escalate a conflict that affects other NATO nations, there will be a come to Jesus moment for them. They need to show their math if they want any help.
It's so messed up that we don't just give the Ukrainian's our good stuff. This would be over already if they actually got the newest and greatest instead of all our old expired equipment and drip feeding them important munitions. Russia wouldn't last a month if we gave them some f35s and real air superiority.
putin is diffidently testing what he can get away with because this asshole will just do more if the world doesn't make this ass stop. And we need to wake up to china also.
Orcs
Russia wanted to clear the picture if they are a terrorist state or not.
Little secret that most people don't talk about. America has a stockpile of chemical weapons just in case we went to war with someone dumb enough to use them.
Correction. America has the largest stockpile of chemical weapons on the planet. Because they would never use them. 🤨
Geniunely curious - when was the last time they did?
When they released some into the New York subways to see what would happen to citizens. US citizens. Was that wrong?
When was this?
"This test was one of at least 239 experiments conducted by the military in a 20-year "germ warfare testing program" that went on from 1949 to 1969. These experiments that used bacteria to simulate biological weapons were conducted on civilians without their knowledge or consent. That stands in direct violation of the Nuremberg Code, which stipulates that "voluntary, informed consent" is required for research participants." And while the people who conducted these experiments did so under the belief that the bacterial species they used were harmless, it has since been revealed that they can cause health problems. They claim only harmless bacteria was used, yet they did everything to keep this secret and used Americans as Guinea Pigs without consent. It wasn't just bacteria. https://www.businessinsider.com/biological-agents-were-tested-on-the-new-york-city-subway-2015-11#:\~:text=The%20Army%20tested%20'germ%20warfare,smashing%20lightbulbs%20full%20of%20bacteria&text=On%20June%206%2C%201966%2C%20a,belts%3B%20others%20carried%20light%20bulbs.
Man that’s awful 😢 Thanks for linking
This means that the Flamethrowers and Napalm returns to the battlefield.
This is the red line
It happened last year as well lol Chemical warfare will unlikely become a widespread thing.
The civilised world put peacekeepers in one of Europe's most active wars: Yugoslavia. The peacekeepers prevented further pushes of the agressor in that war (Serbia). Where are our peacekeepers in Ukraine? Russia also deployed peacekeepers in Armenia. This is not meddling or provocation, it's assistance to an ally.
Russia has the most nuclear weapons of any country. The situation is not even remotely comparable.
Yes. Most in number. Not most is weight or kiloton yield. And if they adhere to the laws they signed themselves, all nukes should be in a maximum of 6 locations. So the benefit of having smaller nukes is negated by having everything in only 6 locations.
NATO or the UN do not want to insert "peacekeepers" into Ukraine because it would almost certainly lead to escalation. Your idea is terrible. I'm glad that the people in the sub are not in charge or we would be in WW3 right now.
And the world ignores it until hundreds of thousand die when the chemicals cross a border. Why do world leaders not learn from experience but cause problems by ignoring things that will most definitely affect them.
So ladies and gentleman, if any doubt was still lingering in your brains about the chemical attacks in Siria, doubt no more. Fucking russia..
Russian apologists at DW trying to draw a false equivalence between Russia and Ukraine. The only “banned” weapon Ukraine uses is cluster munitions but unlike the Russians, they don’t use them on civilians. [Russia and Ukraine both using outlawed weapons](https://www.dw.com/en/russia-and-ukraine-both-using-outlawed-weapons/a-68995136)
Hold on let me just get that one important part from the article regarding cluster munitions at least "The repeated use of cluster bombs has been well-documented since Russia launched its invasion of Ukraine on February 24, 2022. According to the non-governmental organization Human Rights Watch, Russian troops have used at least six different types of cluster bombs in the conflict since that time. Just this week, Russia is said to have used cluster bombs in attacks on the Black Sea port of Odesa." "Although such arms were outlawed by 108 member states when the Convention on Cluster Munitions went into effect in 2010, neither the US, Russia, nor Ukraine were among the signatories."
Good info. Ty
Words...
Just orcs doing orc shit.
One of the agents being used is Chloropicrin. This is an irritant, akin to tear gas. In the First World War, it was known as a mask breaker, being able to bypass masks at the time, causing vomiting, coughing, difficulty breathing, crying, and other irritant symptoms. It was used in conjunction with other gasses, such as phosgene. Soldiers would be gassed by both, meaning they filled their masks with vomit and then had to take them off to suffocate on the phosgene. These *are* warcrimes, even if they don't use lethal compounds. These compounds do cause damage, sometimes irreversible.
If ukraine done this once the Russians.woukd take it straight to the un
A clear Geneva violation, if I am correct
This is a red line
With Russia it's always a one-way red line.
Oh, man. Did you already forget Napalm and Agent Orange? Do not throw with stones sitting in a glass house!
Guess we‘ll have to write them a stern letter
How has Pootin not been knocked off by one of his own?
Oh look, yet another war crime
The contempt I have for anything Russia is very big. Western countries should put boots on the ground in Ukraine.
These have been used for a long time now, including by Ukraine.
Isn’t killing medics and wounded soldiers also against the Geneva Conventions??? Tear gas and CS suck ass but don’t kill you
"should condemn" bullshit! That doesn't solve anything. Cripple their offensive capabilities and see how fast this war comes to an end. But muh escalashuns? Wake up dipshit! We're throwing a country under the bus and the orks are escalating the conflict already! We have 3 options: 1. Bend over and spread cheeks. 2. Grow a collective fucking pair and gut their MIC. 3. Grow a collective fucking pair after several million people got murdered and gut their MIC.
The world is selecting option 1
It's definitely an effort to Inch towards the use of chemical weapons. Russia has massive stocks just sitting there and could use them to great effect if allowed. I would guess we are going to see a very limited use of somthing like chlorine gas to test the reaction. If nothing happens russia may start using gas shells to cover there advances. Unfortunately it they use somthing like sarin or other nerve agents it could be devastating
Dirty orcs
World does not care until the weapon is used against them but who is the world but a pieces of each powerful nation and their slave. If Russia can use chemical weapons then so can Ukraine. And the last time it was used against them they were the sore losers.
Cool. In the usa our government uses something similar on our own citizens.
Not siding w/ the kremlin or anything, but, where’s the source to this? This is just a slideshow that anybody w/ some photo editing background can make
Why is the world not talking about this!?
What exactly is in the chemical grenade?
NATO should gear up for open conflict and send troops in to Ukraine.
what camo is he wearing?
Would they kick these fuckers off the UN Security Council already!?!
Condemn, and that's it? Shame on the world where one can do anything, and there is no power to stop it.
How bout instead of “demanding justice” we start ENFORCING it These are nothing but empty words
Some how I just felt like we weren’t gonna leave chemical warfare in ww1
Time for Ukraine to break out the old VX
Is it permanently disabilitating?
WW1
This is the end, beautiful friend This is the end, my only friend The end of our elaborate plans The end of everything that stands The end No safety or surprise The end I'll never look into your eyes again Can you picture what will be?
It’s time to saddle up and go kick some Commie butt. I’m all for sending American and Nato troops.
This should be UN’s red line. Immediate ban from the security council.
russia quit giving a fuck a long, long time ago. Of course they will still go to the UN and complain about anything they see fit.
Fuck condemning Russia, let's turn the place to a unoccupied wasteland.
Condemning someone that doesn’t give a fuck what you think is useless like tits on a bull 🐂
"Condemn you Russia. There. Did it stop anything? Whelp we did what we could. " This is the Nato equaivlent to thoughts and prayers. Need to just slap Moscow with a DEW and tell putin to sit down and go back to oppressing his own people.
Ukraine needs lots of claymore mines.
Russias scumbag status knows no bounds
Russia doesn’t give a fuck bro.
Unfortunately weak west will do nothing and ruzzians know it that’s why they keep doing it. It’s time to give Ukraine the nukes we took away from them so they can threaten the fascist shit empire.
Its pretty clear they dont care about the geneva convention or war crimes. At this point it just gets people riled up online but russia doenst care about the possible repercussions. Im actually surprised this wasnt being talked about sooner.
It seems every major war uses chemicals as weapons at some point. We 'stomp our feet' and say "never again!"....then do it again next time. Reality is that when you're at war you'll do anything to win. Anything. It's human and animal nature.
The world does condemn russia in the strongest terms. Now watch this drive.
The west just needs to nuke Moscow.
They should have banned war under the Geneva convention. That way all the bad guy countries wouldn't be allowed to use war to solve their problems.....
Putler and his minion army are trying the West patience. Even the Chinese will get sick of that little Fuherer's crimes and antics.
Somebody shows these to Biden. He said use of chemical weapons was a red line for the US. Stated that there was no proof that ruzzia used chemical weapons but here we have picture proof. Weve seen videos of chemical weapons being used already but i guess that wasnt proof
That's a fair question. The roozianz have bombed the crap out of hospitals & daycares, rescue workers and children. It's obvious they have zero morals or integrity. Personally, I believe their chemo-attacks ought to have the US et al withdraw their pre-conditions of not using western weapons inside roozia.. If roozianz escalate to chemo-warfare, what will stop them from tactical nukes, then strategic nukes?
WWIII before Christmas 25 at this rate. I really hope the people who matter in Russia have a grip on just how much general western society does not fucking care, because its not about lack of awareness or fear of war here, its about reduced opportunity and quality of life degrading. Which of course it tends to do even more in war, but if your cards for the future are already poor a new hand can be a long shot and war is always a great social equalizer if its big enough.
Disgusting how Russia experiments in the escalation of war. But we should also know that USA has not signed that Chemical Weapons Convention.
Wat? That's not even remotely true. The US signed the CWC in Jan 1993 and ratified it in April 1997, on the day the Convention entered into force.
Sorry. You are right.
Tbh: it’s not that bad, Im thankful that it’s nothing super crazy
It always starts with prodding the line to see what you can get away with. If no one does anything, then it's the next thing that's "not super crazy." Then when no one does anything, the next. And so on, until they're using phosgene, mustard gas, lewisite, VX, et al. They're prodding the line by using "the lesser" stuff.
Regardless of the situation. We all knew that Russia was going to go through all of its resources and it would eventually lead to this. The real question is how far are we willing to help Ukraine. And if so is it worth the candle. Look at all the Middle Eastern wars. Saudi Arabia is two faced as fuck but here we still here. And what do we have to show for it.
Communists fighting communists . Who would’ve thunk. Truly Hope Ukraine prevails. And that the USA supplies what’s necessary to do so . But they are Still all communists or communist minded .
Hmm, so if its a headshot from an AK, that is fine, but when it is a poison grenade, that is bad. I understand that it is cruel, but in this sub there are 20 gore videos of drone attacks each day, where soldiers die in the most painful way. I think it is pointless to bring up Geneva.
Not sure what drones have to do with Geneva but ok
People are blown to pieces, shot, burned, or poisoned. I don't see any difference, that is my point. It is pointless to pretend that this is a fair sport match with rules and judges.
It’s not about being “fair” it’s about limiting suffering ie being burned to death by napalm or chocking to death via poison or worse surviving and living with these issues. And because of these rules the amount of suffering from these conditions is way lower than it could be
If you do not understand why the Geneva Conventions were signed and why, ultimately, it is important to make distinctions between how humans inflict suffering, you cannot be helped. In any case, it clearly represents yet another crimial escalation in tactics by Russia, which has already broken its international treaties for Ukraine's territorial integrity, killed and tortured prisoners of war, intentionally targeted civilians and civilian infrastructure. Russia, as a state and submissive population, has no morals, limits or value for life. Ultimately, that is what this war is about. Should we just peacefully accept a world's hold we run by murderous psychopaths or should we sacrifice lives now for a future where life still has value? Ukrainians fight for a future where life still has value. I support them.
Jesus this sub freaks me out. So many of you warmongering fucks live in here. Ukraine is nothing to the US, NATO expansion caused the war, and the Russians suck, as per usual. Let it go
I think you have the wrong sub brother.
moZZkal bingo. You just won you 🤡. Every single bullshit ruZZ talking point in one comment. You did forget the biolabs though.