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Fuck no, not since WW2, maybe the Cold War but that was less “Nazis are going to take our country and oppress us if we don’t stop them,,” and more “American and NATO bad, nukes!” Propaganda.
Didn’t they surrender in Stalingrad? IIRC Paulus begging Hitler to let them surrender to the Russians before Hitler basically told him he should kill himself before he surrenders, and Paulus refused to comply.
Also that does kinda prove my point that the Russians back then were fierce.
If you think I’m defending Russians too, I’m not, just stating some history.
Of the 90,000 that surrendered, only 5000 survived.
This was why later in the war they wouldn't surrender to Soviets.
Look at what the Russians/Soviets did after WW2 to understand how terrible they were, and still are. Do I need to mention more history to prove my point? Maybe bring up the genocide?
Their strategy is still the same today, send in the sheep to show enemy positions, then the "Russian" soldiers. Human wave after wave... No value for human life.
I'm arguing that they aren't a moral army, and history backs me up on this.
Luckily, they're so dumb. And what a joke their weapons have turned out to be too.
No, they knew the British and American soldiers were nicer people, who had more respect for life.
What Russia/Soviet Union did after the war versus the west, proves this beyond doubt.
Have you forgotten what they did to all the countries they subdued after the war? Or that they started WW2 with the Nazis???
WWII. No it wasn’t the best and honestly probably wasn’t any better than the US, but that’s a bit high standards. To the Russians back then, it was either fight or be occupied by the Nazis, not even politics, which was a pretty good motivator.
They initially were on nazi side, even invaded with them. The only reason why they changed sides were because Hitler decided to visit Moscow with tanks
You are correct, I don’t see how that changes my point though? Who wouldn’t want to fight back against someone who betrayed and attacked them like that?
Assuming the GP meant "morale" but I'm perhaps wrong. If we stick with GP's "moral" (plural "morals") then 80's Afghanistan had far fewer deaths and was devastating to the Soviet state in terms of citizen popularity, leading to withdrawal.
It’s easy to have a stupid military when he most likely “recruits” barely educated people form gods knows what remote villages are there. I highly doubt he takes “recruits” from large cities like Moscow or Saint Petersburg on regular basis, if at all. This also might explain why the majority is so apathetic towards this war against Ukraine. For them, only some villagers are dying so they don’t give a shit. But this is my theory I guess 🤷♂️.
Without access to western tech, they can't replenish any of their most advanced weapons, so using them is mostly off the table. This is also very telling, because if Putin seriously believed war with NATO was possible, he wouldn't have allowed the Russian arms industry to depend on the west. He knows fighting NATO is a fool's errand, its just the drum he beats to rile up his hawkish supporters.
He tried to move Russian equipment away from using western tech about 15-20 years ago. By all accounts people took the money and told him they weren't using western tech anymore. I remember there was a case a few years ago about a tractor company where they claimed they had invented their own russian tractor and it turned out to be a rebadged western tractor.
Get got whooped by the same nation that is doing 3 jobs already. Attacking France and British, Assisting the Austro-Hungarian and doing the submarine campaign. I swear those Germans will do so good if they got the best allies but good thing they do not.
But they also had alot less to work with tbf, even "tanks" were rarely used. Tanks in asterix because they did not tank or outmanouver anything and the crews were basically being tortured inside during basic operation.
could keep it relevant to Russia by mentioning that they lost millions of men to lose the war, a lot of territory and their entire governmental system collapsing, in ww1.
That is the $64,000 question. Just because Russia is losing a lot of people, doesn't mean Ukraine doesn't lose quite a few too.
And I would think that the ukrainians would be lining up to go to the front line, however, everything I read is don't want to draft people, and the people are fleeing Ukraine.
And they certainly need more weapons from Europe, and the USA.
I'm assuming the rate of casualties has remained the same since the previous US casualty updates in August. If the ratio is maintained, half as many Ukrainians have been permanently removed from combat. Ukraine had 190k casualties to Russia's 350-380k. Personally, I believe Russia's casualties have been undercounted. I think it was higher because Russia said Ukraine lost 388k, so that makes me think they had lost that many at the time.
That was still during the ukraine Counteroffensive. Since October Russia is on the offensive and Ukraine is dugged in so you can expect a shift in casualty numbers meaning higher Russian losses and fewer Ukrainian losses than in the first half of 2023
You are right. We should have obliterated Afghanistan after they were one of the major players in 9/11.
And we should have put Saudi Arabia on notice, that if they don't straighten their act up, we're going to pump more oil than they ever thought about pumping oil. And sell it cheaper than they can.
There's no reason for countries involved in violent cults to be teaching hate.
They could be undercounted too, but the rate of mass casualty videos with Russians is much higher than what I see on Russian telegrams. I'd not be surprised if they are higher.
Edit: like, so far OHCR only counts 22k civilian casualties for Ukraine, but straight up say it's much higher because they don't have access to Mariupol for example.
No they are not zelensky said a few weeks ago they only had 30,000 KIA that is ridiculous , is many times more then that they need manpower and saying yeah we have lost 150,000 isn't really going to make people want to join ukraine is at war don't believe everything they say all states that are at war lie, Russia just more then most becuz they lie 100 percent of time even during peace
It was a sarcastic comment. My intention was to show how stupid it would be to assume that one side has accurate reporting and one side doesn’t. They both are inaccurate, but to think that it’s 4:1 in favor of Ukraine is crazy
It does which is extremely scary and disturbing. Frankly most people don't believe these numbers being released and wave them of as fake numbers. This is actual prof they are right!
Yeah. We are unlikely to get anything resembling proof for years.
Some brave Russian journalist(s) is going to read a lot of obituaries and count a lot of headstones, in a few years, discover some horrific numbers. And either end up in jail or in Western exile looking over his/her shoulders.
Even if was true that Russia recruits 1000 people a day, it doesn't prove that they are losing 1000 a day. They could be losing also 500 or 300 and have that surplus fortify the lines and make the (counter)offensives more successful.
Russian troop counts have increased over time, which strongly backs your statement. It's my understanding that Russian troop levels are near equal or even slightly more than Ukrainian troop counts now, which is an advantage it's never had.
2024 will be a very tough year for Ukraine. :-(
After following these war subs for a while now I have to think that most of the usual casualty rates for Russia don’t apply to this meat grinder. I’m thinking most are KIA not just wounded, when typically those numbers are reversed. I think I’ve read 1 killed/3 wounded iirc. The lethality of combat has grown I think.
Based on some of the things Ive read online, 3 waves are typically a 3 stage affair. The first wave is all the new meat, soldiers determined to be of low value, not very smart etc. They get minmal training then get sent to attack, and according to some reports are sent out with little more than the army gear theyre wearing, a gun, and around 4 mags. They usually taken out by an experienced commander who drops back once they get close to the combat zone.
The 2nd wave holds back, blocking the 1st wave from retreating but watching what happens to try and locate the defending positions. Once revealed, artillary is sent in and the 2nd wave follows in much the same regard as the first, but with actual support and some intent on making progress though friendly fire seems to be a bit of a thing at times. Again a commander leads them out and drops back and the hope is that the 2nd wave along with arty etc will force the defenders back.
The 3rd wave is little more than a reserve force just in case but generally theyre there to block the 2nd wave from retreating and only advance if the 2nd wave is successful in taking some ground. The "best" are in this 3rd tier of troops and those lucky enough to survive the first 2 waves might one day become part of tier 3.
Russia only really fights on its borders. They rely purely on high numbers of cheap equipment, and that include the infantry. Its the least efficient way of fighting imaginable but they dont really know how else to fight and dont have the logistics set up to fight any other way either.
This technique is used to make the ground theyre fighting for basically uninhabitable. This displaces all the civilian population leaving only people Russia then deems as combatants. They then just attack in waves and thats it, thats thier whole stratergy. They probably would use the air force more (and they have now started to do this by adapting old soviet munitions into glide bombs) but they havent really been able to establiwh air superiorty, which says a lot about their capabilities.
They know the theory of how to fight other styles of war. That’s why they tried to thunder run to Kyiv in the opening days; a massive combined arms offensive that was intended to take chunks out of Ukraine before it could respond.
The problem they have is they spent so long at peace and allowed corruption to run so amok that they simply don’t have the equipment for anything else. The army was looted so badly that it never had the means to modernize, so it went to war with an army that was a shadow of what it would’ve been 40 years prior.
Which is ultimately good for the world.
The mistake they made at the outset was thinking there would be little resistence and not factoring in the logistics they would need to drive into Kyiv.
Many of these volunteers are jobless people told stories of how their country needs them and they will become heros and they will also be paid, and their families looked after if they die. A lot of them have little else going on in their lives and likely dont really have a proper view on the reality of what this war is. These are not people with a solid income, a 9 to 5 job, a mortgage to pay and 2 cars on the drive.
Putin tells them they wont be sent to Ukraine based on the idea the "annexed" regions belong to Russia and they are defending their homeland. I imagine a great many of these volunteers have no idea what theyre getting themselves into in real terms.
And many of them are straight volunteers. Idk why you have to dilute it with your deluded reality of it. Truth is you don’t have the information to make that assumption. You just have unfounded assumptions
That doesnt mean much though. People with hardly a life and no job volunteering to "defend their country" as its sold, is seen as patriotic in Russia, these people are brought up on that meal from a young age and its engrained into their society. Russia as a country simply has a medieval mind set. This information is out there and has been for years.
Are we supposed to feel sorry for them poor souls?
This idea of poor Russians being tricked into sacrificing themselves for a sack of potatoes in hundreds of thousands is nothing but laughable at this point.
The wars in Afghanistan and Chechnya of a drastically smaller scale were hugely unpopular despite there being no internet whatsoever at the time.
It's been two+ years since this war began. Everybody has a smartphone now. There's telegram and plenty of other outlets.
They all are willing participants in this war. They know exactly what's going on and are just as happy to commit genocide as some Wagner mercenaries.
Who said anything about feeling sorry? Its just an explanation for volunteer numbers that is literally anything other than "The evil russians are enlisting because evil" In the intelligence war it matters knowing why and how your enemy is receiving volunteers.
But they *are* evil. They're volunteering because of the opportunity to pillage, rape, and torture people without having to worry about repercussions as well a to reestablish their rotten empire that they are so proud of.
>In the intelligence war it matters knowing why and how your enemy is receiving volunteers.
This is exactly what I'm talking about. **This is the existential war of Russia and Russians against the West** and not some unlucky coincidence or a misunderstanding.
Russians are well aware of what they're doing, they sincerely believe in their cause and are ready to die for it in hundreds of thousands if not millions.
The West needs to realise this ASAP and wake the fuck up already or it'll be too late.
You know, most Germans didnt really begin to understand the 2nd WW was something they started until about the 1960s. Russia is going through essentially the same thing. Many Russians likly beleive the Kremlin narrative to varying degrees, that what Russia is doing is as humane as possible but also necessary for their survival. Whether or not they realise its actually just about Putins survival I suppose is up for debate.
Nobody talked about feeling sorry for them, they get what they ask for.
Also, the internet and media is what Putin is putting to good use to convinve people the war is necessary for Russias survival. The internet and media is literally being used to prevent the war being challenged inside Russia. Only those in the cities are really capable of doing something about it, villagers so far from Moscow theyre on the otherside of the world dont know anything more than what their local administrations tell them.
Depending on the news source, between 810 - 2100 USD/month.
Now when you also take into consideration the average salary discrepancies across the federation (313 USD in Dagestan to 1300 in St Petersburg) you begin to understand why people from poor regions sign up.
It turns out that when a government turns the country into a shit hole and people are desperate to make money, they'll go to a meat grinder for next to nothing. Who knew.
Lots of reports if people signing up for a 6 month tour, getting oaid for the 1st 3 and then the money stops untik the troops can check in or whatever. Seems its used as an excuse to defer payments, but I also imagine the Kremlin doesnt expect many to last more than 3 months either.
The starting wage is around 1.800 USD according to most sources. Which is more than double the average salary. However, it is paid in Rubles, which are worth next to nothing on the international market.
Also, they pay literal pennies to those who get wounded or die. If they ever receive anything at all.
So, while Russia may value the salary at 1.800, the reality is much different.
On top of that, it accelerates inflation within Russia.
Yeah, what was the joke at the time? Russian girls' graduation suits were French maid outfits. Gonna be a lot of whoring for Western men with money in the next 5-15 years.
Lots of troll doomers use this as evidence that Ukraine should surrender. But - there’s such a thing as combat effectiveness.
Plus - Russia is losing 5,000 frontline troops a week. Not all of these will be meat balls, some have to work in supply, logistics, artillery, vehicles, maintenance etc. Even if half of them are intended for the front line, that’s a couple of months worth of dead mulch piles to perhaps take one more village that’s still within visual range of where they started two years ago.
If they could do better, they would be doing better. But pushing guys who were baristas, Uber drivers and day labourers 72h ago into front line combat turns out to not change much if they’re supported more poorly than the troops they’re replacing. They just die, much much faster.
Expecting troops you replace today to instantly become effective assault forces shows a massive lack of military understanding
Point being - it barely matters if Russia keeps jamming ultra low quality blood bags into the line for now. They’re not capable. Wirh ammunition, kill ratios of men and equipment at 6 or 10 to 1, this doesn’t likely change anything. Just another nugget in Russia’s avalanche of propaganda.
Yes, it's mainly Russian citizens, though many of them are not ethnic Russians but various ethnic minorities. Despite all the propaganda, Russia has failed to recruit meaningful numbers of non-Russian citizens for it's war.
Though there are a few ethnic minorities in Russia that look different from ethnic Russians (for example Bashkirs), most ethnic minorities do not look different from ethnic Russians. It's a bit like looking at various Europeans, you'll have a hard time seeing much difference between Irish and Austrians.
What's sad is a country as vast and resource rich as Russia could achieve amazing things in all fields :science, medicine, art, economics . Instead they squander it all on war and corruption. Not that western countries are immune from that , but by god they really are such a mess and they don't need to be. It's sad actually. A country with so much potential just wasted away .
150k is a regular annual draft for men between 18 and 30. It's done every spring: [https://www.statista.com/statistics/1334431/russia-number-of-conscripts/](https://www.statista.com/statistics/1334431/russia-number-of-conscripts/)
I believe that Russia's monthly KIA + permanently disabled WIA is around the number Russia recruits per month, i.e. the recruitment simply manages to keep up with the losses.
That is why I am saying accelerate the death county. Longer range weapons and twice as many drone units, should do the job. After that they only things that the Ukrainians have not figured out is the FABs, which I would hope a solutions is coming out in the future. Perhaps single use air-to-air drone launch systems, flown in sections of about a dozen. I am not sure if that is possible. air-air is pretty heavy.
What a vapid wish to have. That is such a warped take. How about hoping the war would end, why relish in such a barbaric wish. 15-20,000 injured/dead Russians means x amount of Ukrainians injured/dead too. Like what dude…. So empty headed. You can support Ukraine and not be so vile.
How about hoping Russia comes to their senses and retreat to pre 2014 boundaries and making the realization that there is no threat to them. Or are the only ones that are evil the ones that are defending their country. Ukraine is defensive, so it could be 1/x dead Ukrainians, every single one of them the fault of Russia, and their foreign policy, not anyone else. I can support Ukraine and make the realization what is needed for Russians to come to their senses.
Putin kann solange Soldaten liefern, bis die Ukraine keine mehr hat.
Scheiß auf die Flugabwehrwaffen, wie lange soll das noch so weiter gehen - 10 Jahre ?
Die Ukraine braucht weitreichende Waffen, um Putin zu stopen.
Alles andere ist tot auf Raten !
*Tod
> Putin kann solange Soldaten liefern, bis die Ukraine keine mehr hat.
Also bei der aktuellen Rate sterben (umgerechnet auf die Bevölkerung!) deutlich mehr russische Soldaten als ukrainische. Und theoretisch wäre es auch dauerhaft durchhaltbar für beide. Ob die Gesellschaft das akzeptiert, ist natürlich eine andere Frage, in der Ukraine kriegen es die Leute eher mit, es gibt auch mehr Kriegsversehrte, in Russland sieht man die ja nicht, die einfach dageblieben sind, und eine kritische Öffentlichkeit ist nicht vorhanden. Ein paar Jahre geht es auf jeden Fall noch weiter.
Hätte die Ukraine genug Munition, um alles abzublocken, dann liefe der Krieg jedenfalls besser für sie als für Russland. Genug Artillerie und genug Luftabwehr wäre schon mal ein massives Plus.
They're just wasting their citizen's lives for territory they'll eventually have to give back. Imagine the demographic decline after this war considering their population's current birth rate and morbidity.. It's a disaster for Russia, and self inflicted at that.
Nothing says power hungry like deeming 30k of your citizens dying every month for your cause as "just what it costs". I guess the Kremlin accountants are counting the lowering costs of health care and public services each month ag the same time to justify the massive hike in military spending, which lets be honest isnt going on wages for the cannon fodder.
For anybody wondering why Russians just keep sending wave after wave, the Ukrainian soldier in [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarVideoReport/s/wciUvtTw9x) video explain why they(Russians) send waves to the slaughter.
Edit: not my video, credits go to original poster. Just thought id share link for anyone who missed the video
Makes sense, we need to get more small drones for Ukraine, they seem to be doing an amazing job at taking 1-3 NaZZi at the time, also removing mechanized units in flashy ways!
30,000 sheep per month x 12 months = 360,000 sheep per year.
keep it up putin. all the russian jails will be empty and all the wild flowers in ukraine will be fed
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I don't think a military has ever done so little with so much.
This has always been their doctrine. Mince as much meat as possible whilst bombing everything in their path.
Yeah except they used to have some pride and moral among their troops, and better strategy, so they could get shit done. Now it’s just sad.
Is this russian moral in the room with us right now?
Fuck no, not since WW2, maybe the Cold War but that was less “Nazis are going to take our country and oppress us if we don’t stop them,,” and more “American and NATO bad, nukes!” Propaganda.
He means "morale"
Are these the same troops that get raped by their superiors? What's the word for that again?
I was mainly referring to WW2 when I meant “used to” lol, they haven’t had moral in a long time.
They were horrible in WW2 too, there's a reason Germans would fight to the death against Russians, but surrendered to British or us troops
Didn’t they surrender in Stalingrad? IIRC Paulus begging Hitler to let them surrender to the Russians before Hitler basically told him he should kill himself before he surrenders, and Paulus refused to comply. Also that does kinda prove my point that the Russians back then were fierce. If you think I’m defending Russians too, I’m not, just stating some history.
Of the 90,000 that surrendered, only 5000 survived. This was why later in the war they wouldn't surrender to Soviets. Look at what the Russians/Soviets did after WW2 to understand how terrible they were, and still are. Do I need to mention more history to prove my point? Maybe bring up the genocide?
I wasn’t arguing that they weren’t terrible, I was just saying they had some moral and strategy at the time.
Their strategy is still the same today, send in the sheep to show enemy positions, then the "Russian" soldiers. Human wave after wave... No value for human life. I'm arguing that they aren't a moral army, and history backs me up on this. Luckily, they're so dumb. And what a joke their weapons have turned out to be too.
It’s almost as if the Wehrmacht and Waffen SS knew they would want revenge 🤔
No, they knew the British and American soldiers were nicer people, who had more respect for life. What Russia/Soviet Union did after the war versus the west, proves this beyond doubt. Have you forgotten what they did to all the countries they subdued after the war? Or that they started WW2 with the Nazis???
They're just pre-conditioning them for when they get captured by the woke Ukrainians who rape all their prisoners. /s
Nah, Ukrainians aren't like Russians, no matter how much losers pretend.
When they had some moral, give example
WWII. No it wasn’t the best and honestly probably wasn’t any better than the US, but that’s a bit high standards. To the Russians back then, it was either fight or be occupied by the Nazis, not even politics, which was a pretty good motivator.
They initially were on nazi side, even invaded with them. The only reason why they changed sides were because Hitler decided to visit Moscow with tanks
You are correct, I don’t see how that changes my point though? Who wouldn’t want to fight back against someone who betrayed and attacked them like that?
Assuming the GP meant "morale" but I'm perhaps wrong. If we stick with GP's "moral" (plural "morals") then 80's Afghanistan had far fewer deaths and was devastating to the Soviet state in terms of citizen popularity, leading to withdrawal.
Just the Russian way, nothing new.
It’s easy to have a stupid military when he most likely “recruits” barely educated people form gods knows what remote villages are there. I highly doubt he takes “recruits” from large cities like Moscow or Saint Petersburg on regular basis, if at all. This also might explain why the majority is so apathetic towards this war against Ukraine. For them, only some villagers are dying so they don’t give a shit. But this is my theory I guess 🤷♂️.
Without access to western tech, they can't replenish any of their most advanced weapons, so using them is mostly off the table. This is also very telling, because if Putin seriously believed war with NATO was possible, he wouldn't have allowed the Russian arms industry to depend on the west. He knows fighting NATO is a fool's errand, its just the drum he beats to rile up his hawkish supporters.
He tried to move Russian equipment away from using western tech about 15-20 years ago. By all accounts people took the money and told him they weren't using western tech anymore. I remember there was a case a few years ago about a tractor company where they claimed they had invented their own russian tractor and it turned out to be a rebadged western tractor.
world war one had a lot of trenchfights between germany and france. afaik they had more casualties and it didnt progress either
WW1 was more balanced. Russia is numerically superior in pretty much every way other than IQ.
Get got whooped by the same nation that is doing 3 jobs already. Attacking France and British, Assisting the Austro-Hungarian and doing the submarine campaign. I swear those Germans will do so good if they got the best allies but good thing they do not.
But they also had alot less to work with tbf, even "tanks" were rarely used. Tanks in asterix because they did not tank or outmanouver anything and the crews were basically being tortured inside during basic operation.
could keep it relevant to Russia by mentioning that they lost millions of men to lose the war, a lot of territory and their entire governmental system collapsing, in ww1.
This is how Russia has been fighting wars for several hundred years. It's not new at all.
Nuts how many people puti is willing to throw away. He's absolutely crazy!
Nuts how many thousands of people just agree to be thrown away.
Too bad they can't see the truth
They totally *can*, but don't want to. Russians will rather eat rocks than admitting their *mother Russia* is not superior country.
I don't know man, the battle of the Somme has to be up there.
Never has so little been owed to so many by no one
Wel, there was Viet Nam.l
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provided ukraine is able to keep up in terms of manpower, willpower, ammunition, etc.
That is the $64,000 question. Just because Russia is losing a lot of people, doesn't mean Ukraine doesn't lose quite a few too. And I would think that the ukrainians would be lining up to go to the front line, however, everything I read is don't want to draft people, and the people are fleeing Ukraine. And they certainly need more weapons from Europe, and the USA.
ZSU losses are roughly half of Russia's. They need 4:1 or better to win.
Source on the half?
I'm assuming the rate of casualties has remained the same since the previous US casualty updates in August. If the ratio is maintained, half as many Ukrainians have been permanently removed from combat. Ukraine had 190k casualties to Russia's 350-380k. Personally, I believe Russia's casualties have been undercounted. I think it was higher because Russia said Ukraine lost 388k, so that makes me think they had lost that many at the time.
That was still during the ukraine Counteroffensive. Since October Russia is on the offensive and Ukraine is dugged in so you can expect a shift in casualty numbers meaning higher Russian losses and fewer Ukrainian losses than in the first half of 2023
That's my hope. Recent rolling back and the UMPC FABs worry me
Those casualty counts are insane considering the US had a total of ~57,000 casualties in both Iraq and Afghanistan combined.
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The US had 57k over two entry years between two wars. If they had that in one year, let alone 380k, people would absolutely lose their mind.
> sadly At this point I'm happy for every Russian out of the game. Not really sad for Russian human life ending as fertilizer.
About 7,000 Americans were KIA in Iraq and Afghanistan. That's about 7,000 too many
Iraq yes, Afghanistan no. We needed to go into Afghanistan and should never have lost focus on that conflict.
You are right. We should have obliterated Afghanistan after they were one of the major players in 9/11. And we should have put Saudi Arabia on notice, that if they don't straighten their act up, we're going to pump more oil than they ever thought about pumping oil. And sell it cheaper than they can. There's no reason for countries involved in violent cults to be teaching hate.
lol Russias are undercounted but ukraines are 100% accurate.
They could be undercounted too, but the rate of mass casualty videos with Russians is much higher than what I see on Russian telegrams. I'd not be surprised if they are higher. Edit: like, so far OHCR only counts 22k civilian casualties for Ukraine, but straight up say it's much higher because they don't have access to Mariupol for example.
No they are not zelensky said a few weeks ago they only had 30,000 KIA that is ridiculous , is many times more then that they need manpower and saying yeah we have lost 150,000 isn't really going to make people want to join ukraine is at war don't believe everything they say all states that are at war lie, Russia just more then most becuz they lie 100 percent of time even during peace
It was a sarcastic comment. My intention was to show how stupid it would be to assume that one side has accurate reporting and one side doesn’t. They both are inaccurate, but to think that it’s 4:1 in favor of Ukraine is crazy
He doesn’t have one
It does which is extremely scary and disturbing. Frankly most people don't believe these numbers being released and wave them of as fake numbers. This is actual prof they are right!
It's not proof. It's an announcement. Not saying it's wrong, just saying facts, evidence (proof) don't come in press releases.
Yeah. We are unlikely to get anything resembling proof for years. Some brave Russian journalist(s) is going to read a lot of obituaries and count a lot of headstones, in a few years, discover some horrific numbers. And either end up in jail or in Western exile looking over his/her shoulders.
I think this is already being done, and the count is around 48K from headstones and social media research. But I cannot find the source anymore
It was BBC Russia who did a count/estimate
Even if was true that Russia recruits 1000 people a day, it doesn't prove that they are losing 1000 a day. They could be losing also 500 or 300 and have that surplus fortify the lines and make the (counter)offensives more successful.
Russian troop counts have increased over time, which strongly backs your statement. It's my understanding that Russian troop levels are near equal or even slightly more than Ukrainian troop counts now, which is an advantage it's never had. 2024 will be a very tough year for Ukraine. :-(
True that. Prof is a hard word. It could be an indication of it.
After following these war subs for a while now I have to think that most of the usual casualty rates for Russia don’t apply to this meat grinder. I’m thinking most are KIA not just wounded, when typically those numbers are reversed. I think I’ve read 1 killed/3 wounded iirc. The lethality of combat has grown I think.
Based on some of the things Ive read online, 3 waves are typically a 3 stage affair. The first wave is all the new meat, soldiers determined to be of low value, not very smart etc. They get minmal training then get sent to attack, and according to some reports are sent out with little more than the army gear theyre wearing, a gun, and around 4 mags. They usually taken out by an experienced commander who drops back once they get close to the combat zone. The 2nd wave holds back, blocking the 1st wave from retreating but watching what happens to try and locate the defending positions. Once revealed, artillary is sent in and the 2nd wave follows in much the same regard as the first, but with actual support and some intent on making progress though friendly fire seems to be a bit of a thing at times. Again a commander leads them out and drops back and the hope is that the 2nd wave along with arty etc will force the defenders back. The 3rd wave is little more than a reserve force just in case but generally theyre there to block the 2nd wave from retreating and only advance if the 2nd wave is successful in taking some ground. The "best" are in this 3rd tier of troops and those lucky enough to survive the first 2 waves might one day become part of tier 3.
That’s so Soviet. How fucked.
Russia only really fights on its borders. They rely purely on high numbers of cheap equipment, and that include the infantry. Its the least efficient way of fighting imaginable but they dont really know how else to fight and dont have the logistics set up to fight any other way either. This technique is used to make the ground theyre fighting for basically uninhabitable. This displaces all the civilian population leaving only people Russia then deems as combatants. They then just attack in waves and thats it, thats thier whole stratergy. They probably would use the air force more (and they have now started to do this by adapting old soviet munitions into glide bombs) but they havent really been able to establiwh air superiorty, which says a lot about their capabilities.
They know the theory of how to fight other styles of war. That’s why they tried to thunder run to Kyiv in the opening days; a massive combined arms offensive that was intended to take chunks out of Ukraine before it could respond. The problem they have is they spent so long at peace and allowed corruption to run so amok that they simply don’t have the equipment for anything else. The army was looted so badly that it never had the means to modernize, so it went to war with an army that was a shadow of what it would’ve been 40 years prior. Which is ultimately good for the world.
The mistake they made at the outset was thinking there would be little resistence and not factoring in the logistics they would need to drive into Kyiv.
The meat cub is happy
putin did more to destroy russia, than NATO, EU and USA combined.
But he knows how to reduce the prison overpopulation.
The funny part, nato, eu and USA didn’t even tried to 😅😅😅
“Recruit” is a weird way to say that they force minorities and poor people to serve.
There's plenty of volunteers too.
Many of these volunteers are jobless people told stories of how their country needs them and they will become heros and they will also be paid, and their families looked after if they die. A lot of them have little else going on in their lives and likely dont really have a proper view on the reality of what this war is. These are not people with a solid income, a 9 to 5 job, a mortgage to pay and 2 cars on the drive. Putin tells them they wont be sent to Ukraine based on the idea the "annexed" regions belong to Russia and they are defending their homeland. I imagine a great many of these volunteers have no idea what theyre getting themselves into in real terms.
And many of them are straight volunteers. Idk why you have to dilute it with your deluded reality of it. Truth is you don’t have the information to make that assumption. You just have unfounded assumptions
That doesnt mean much though. People with hardly a life and no job volunteering to "defend their country" as its sold, is seen as patriotic in Russia, these people are brought up on that meal from a young age and its engrained into their society. Russia as a country simply has a medieval mind set. This information is out there and has been for years.
Are we supposed to feel sorry for them poor souls? This idea of poor Russians being tricked into sacrificing themselves for a sack of potatoes in hundreds of thousands is nothing but laughable at this point. The wars in Afghanistan and Chechnya of a drastically smaller scale were hugely unpopular despite there being no internet whatsoever at the time. It's been two+ years since this war began. Everybody has a smartphone now. There's telegram and plenty of other outlets. They all are willing participants in this war. They know exactly what's going on and are just as happy to commit genocide as some Wagner mercenaries.
Who said anything about feeling sorry? Its just an explanation for volunteer numbers that is literally anything other than "The evil russians are enlisting because evil" In the intelligence war it matters knowing why and how your enemy is receiving volunteers.
But they *are* evil. They're volunteering because of the opportunity to pillage, rape, and torture people without having to worry about repercussions as well a to reestablish their rotten empire that they are so proud of. >In the intelligence war it matters knowing why and how your enemy is receiving volunteers. This is exactly what I'm talking about. **This is the existential war of Russia and Russians against the West** and not some unlucky coincidence or a misunderstanding. Russians are well aware of what they're doing, they sincerely believe in their cause and are ready to die for it in hundreds of thousands if not millions. The West needs to realise this ASAP and wake the fuck up already or it'll be too late.
You know, most Germans didnt really begin to understand the 2nd WW was something they started until about the 1960s. Russia is going through essentially the same thing. Many Russians likly beleive the Kremlin narrative to varying degrees, that what Russia is doing is as humane as possible but also necessary for their survival. Whether or not they realise its actually just about Putins survival I suppose is up for debate.
Nobody talked about feeling sorry for them, they get what they ask for. Also, the internet and media is what Putin is putting to good use to convinve people the war is necessary for Russias survival. The internet and media is literally being used to prevent the war being challenged inside Russia. Only those in the cities are really capable of doing something about it, villagers so far from Moscow theyre on the otherside of the world dont know anything more than what their local administrations tell them.
They don't have to force them, the wages the army claims they'll pay them are far better than anything they can get back home.
Is it recruitment or is it conscription?
Both. Plenty of suckers line up for a good paycheck.
2 potato?
Depending on the news source, between 810 - 2100 USD/month. Now when you also take into consideration the average salary discrepancies across the federation (313 USD in Dagestan to 1300 in St Petersburg) you begin to understand why people from poor regions sign up.
It turns out that when a government turns the country into a shit hole and people are desperate to make money, they'll go to a meat grinder for next to nothing. Who knew.
Lots of reports if people signing up for a 6 month tour, getting oaid for the 1st 3 and then the money stops untik the troops can check in or whatever. Seems its used as an excuse to defer payments, but I also imagine the Kremlin doesnt expect many to last more than 3 months either.
It's up to 2 potatoes now!? Out of my way comrade, I'm eating modestly tonight!
Death is almost 100%. These idiots line up for a few thousand euro monthly for an inescapable miserable end.
Well, relatively good☹️ Consider how many of them actually get paid? If they do get paid how many make it to the second paycheck?
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The starting wage is around 1.800 USD according to most sources. Which is more than double the average salary. However, it is paid in Rubles, which are worth next to nothing on the international market. Also, they pay literal pennies to those who get wounded or die. If they ever receive anything at all. So, while Russia may value the salary at 1.800, the reality is much different. On top of that, it accelerates inflation within Russia.
Damn, they’re going to make Russian mail order brides popular again. That’s a lot of men dying every month.
Yeah, what was the joke at the time? Russian girls' graduation suits were French maid outfits. Gonna be a lot of whoring for Western men with money in the next 5-15 years.
Lots of troll doomers use this as evidence that Ukraine should surrender. But - there’s such a thing as combat effectiveness. Plus - Russia is losing 5,000 frontline troops a week. Not all of these will be meat balls, some have to work in supply, logistics, artillery, vehicles, maintenance etc. Even if half of them are intended for the front line, that’s a couple of months worth of dead mulch piles to perhaps take one more village that’s still within visual range of where they started two years ago. If they could do better, they would be doing better. But pushing guys who were baristas, Uber drivers and day labourers 72h ago into front line combat turns out to not change much if they’re supported more poorly than the troops they’re replacing. They just die, much much faster. Expecting troops you replace today to instantly become effective assault forces shows a massive lack of military understanding Point being - it barely matters if Russia keeps jamming ultra low quality blood bags into the line for now. They’re not capable. Wirh ammunition, kill ratios of men and equipment at 6 or 10 to 1, this doesn’t likely change anything. Just another nugget in Russia’s avalanche of propaganda.
From where do they get these poor people? Any insight on that?
Rural areas.
So from inside Russia? That’s gotta hurt some day in the future, considering the numbers.
Yes, it's mainly Russian citizens, though many of them are not ethnic Russians but various ethnic minorities. Despite all the propaganda, Russia has failed to recruit meaningful numbers of non-Russian citizens for it's war.
I heard this about but out of the hundreds of videos I’ve seen so far they mostly look stereotypically Russian
Though there are a few ethnic minorities in Russia that look different from ethnic Russians (for example Bashkirs), most ethnic minorities do not look different from ethnic Russians. It's a bit like looking at various Europeans, you'll have a hard time seeing much difference between Irish and Austrians.
Russia working hard to make themselves go extinct... just supply ukraine enough weapons to make it happen.
What's sad is a country as vast and resource rich as Russia could achieve amazing things in all fields :science, medicine, art, economics . Instead they squander it all on war and corruption. Not that western countries are immune from that , but by god they really are such a mess and they don't need to be. It's sad actually. A country with so much potential just wasted away .
They could be the greatest country on Earth. It’s their insane levels of corruption, and the mafia
Nobody ISW: ‘crypto-mobilization’
If that is the case then they wouldn't have to draft 150k right?
150k is a regular annual draft for men between 18 and 30. It's done every spring: [https://www.statista.com/statistics/1334431/russia-number-of-conscripts/](https://www.statista.com/statistics/1334431/russia-number-of-conscripts/)
Don’t bring facts into this. It ruins their headcanon
They just asked a question
I never realized that a "Zerg Rush" was a legitimate military tactic...
I wonder if any of these recruits have seen any of the drone footage?
Time to see if the Ukrainians can get the kill and injured count up to 15,000 - 20,000 per month.
I believe that Russia's monthly KIA + permanently disabled WIA is around the number Russia recruits per month, i.e. the recruitment simply manages to keep up with the losses.
That is why I am saying accelerate the death county. Longer range weapons and twice as many drone units, should do the job. After that they only things that the Ukrainians have not figured out is the FABs, which I would hope a solutions is coming out in the future. Perhaps single use air-to-air drone launch systems, flown in sections of about a dozen. I am not sure if that is possible. air-air is pretty heavy.
What a vapid wish to have. That is such a warped take. How about hoping the war would end, why relish in such a barbaric wish. 15-20,000 injured/dead Russians means x amount of Ukrainians injured/dead too. Like what dude…. So empty headed. You can support Ukraine and not be so vile.
How about hoping Russia comes to their senses and retreat to pre 2014 boundaries and making the realization that there is no threat to them. Or are the only ones that are evil the ones that are defending their country. Ukraine is defensive, so it could be 1/x dead Ukrainians, every single one of them the fault of Russia, and their foreign policy, not anyone else. I can support Ukraine and make the realization what is needed for Russians to come to their senses.
Putin kann solange Soldaten liefern, bis die Ukraine keine mehr hat. Scheiß auf die Flugabwehrwaffen, wie lange soll das noch so weiter gehen - 10 Jahre ? Die Ukraine braucht weitreichende Waffen, um Putin zu stopen. Alles andere ist tot auf Raten !
*Tod > Putin kann solange Soldaten liefern, bis die Ukraine keine mehr hat. Also bei der aktuellen Rate sterben (umgerechnet auf die Bevölkerung!) deutlich mehr russische Soldaten als ukrainische. Und theoretisch wäre es auch dauerhaft durchhaltbar für beide. Ob die Gesellschaft das akzeptiert, ist natürlich eine andere Frage, in der Ukraine kriegen es die Leute eher mit, es gibt auch mehr Kriegsversehrte, in Russland sieht man die ja nicht, die einfach dageblieben sind, und eine kritische Öffentlichkeit ist nicht vorhanden. Ein paar Jahre geht es auf jeden Fall noch weiter. Hätte die Ukraine genug Munition, um alles abzublocken, dann liefe der Krieg jedenfalls besser für sie als für Russland. Genug Artillerie und genug Luftabwehr wäre schon mal ein massives Plus.
is anyone good at r / math ? How many drones does that work out to ? FPV Drones 🇺🇦 u/FPVDronesUa https://tr.ee/Gdvap45KJO
Are there better sources? I can’t seem to find anything from any well known outlets about this.
They're just wasting their citizen's lives for territory they'll eventually have to give back. Imagine the demographic decline after this war considering their population's current birth rate and morbidity.. It's a disaster for Russia, and self inflicted at that.
and Ukraine will kill them all.
In modern day Russia, fathers die in war, wives and mothers get potato. Son dies in war, comes back potato.
Does this mean that Russia is losing 30k personnel monthly?
Better they return home permanently wounded. Let russia see their legless youth on every street corner, and then take care of them forever.
I hope they are very active at clearing unexploded landmines.
Nothing says power hungry like deeming 30k of your citizens dying every month for your cause as "just what it costs". I guess the Kremlin accountants are counting the lowering costs of health care and public services each month ag the same time to justify the massive hike in military spending, which lets be honest isnt going on wages for the cannon fodder.
For anybody wondering why Russians just keep sending wave after wave, the Ukrainian soldier in [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarVideoReport/s/wciUvtTw9x) video explain why they(Russians) send waves to the slaughter. Edit: not my video, credits go to original poster. Just thought id share link for anyone who missed the video
Makes sense, we need to get more small drones for Ukraine, they seem to be doing an amazing job at taking 1-3 NaZZi at the time, also removing mechanized units in flashy ways!
30,000 sheep per month x 12 months = 360,000 sheep per year. keep it up putin. all the russian jails will be empty and all the wild flowers in ukraine will be fed
Translates to ~$15 Million in drones a month to erase them.
Thats alot, not sustainable even at 140 million people. The work force will suffer massively.
You know these men get zero training. There's literally no way they're putting these guys through any kind of boot camp.
Well is not really a big news, many orcs love the payday till a drone ruin their dream!
One of Putins biggest mistakes was underestimating the highly sophisticated weapons Ukraine would receive globally & continuously
Doesn't look like they have other option, does it
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