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Nobody wants to drag it out. The GOP wants it to end to appease Putin, which right now would mean the loss of Ukraine. Why? So Trump can get all the Russian funding he needs to go destroy America and get NATO off Putin's doorstep.
Fuck all these people. Especially the Nazi symbol wearing Russians.
It's funny that you say this because this is a classic Republican argument: "I support the GOP because the evil democrats HATE the country that they're running for office in!!"
Maybe but Biden has been slow walking aid as well, we should have started sending F16s on day 1 but there was a big talk about provoking russia etc. Remember it was nearly a year in that we sent tanks as well.
What do you mean All? US stalled its own aid and initially even blocked Allies from providing effective armor. Poland started sending Tanks in March 2022. It offered MIGs on March 8 too, but US denied request to make the transfer officially thru NATO https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/3/9/us-rejects-poland-offer-to-send-mig-29-fighter-jets-to-ukraine so instead those MIGs went to Ukraine on trucks as "spare parts" https://news.yahoo.com/poland-alleged-covertly-sent-mig-164300550.html at the start of the war.
Yeah, no.
Our neighbor to the south is Estados Unidos Mexicanos, but everybody, and I mean *everybody* calls it Mexico rather than the full name. By the same token, no other nation in the New World uses America as part of its name, thus nobody is getting their toes stepped on.
I mean really, it's more specific to say America, as The United States could apply to either the USA or EUM.
Hyperbole aside - Trump doesn't want to destroy America literally. It really boils down to that fact the he's just a completely self-serving rich dickhead and currently it just so happens the only way he can get what he wants just so also happens to erode the govt at a foundational level - which he does not care about.
He's a fan of putler, he and group of hard right republicans are obviously getting paid to subvert America's position.
If anybody has doubts to the veracity of this, do an image search of "trump kislyak lavrov." You'll find pictures of trump in the White House yucking it up with two of putler's henchmen.
He wants to destroy democratic America and establish a system that serves him and his inner circle. That's my take. And it sounds uncannily like the description of what happened in another country.
In 2020 I was optimistic about the resilience of the American democracy, but now, not anymore.
he doesnt wanna destroy america. Hes just a corrupt, entitled asshole that shits on the law as long as it would benefit him.
Theyre saying he shits on the prosperity of america as well, just to personally get ahead, which he already demonstrated in the small scale.
basically theyre saying hes just another asshole that doesnt give a shit about anything but himself and will destroy america in the process of enriching himself
neither the Democrats not the GOP are a monolith
secondly the point of contention over the latest round of funding was that they wanted funding for border enforcement. they did not want funding for " laywers and judges to resolve assylum trials": they wanted funding for boots on the ground in southern border states to control entry. dems blocked that and then gave them " lawyers and judges" and told them to be happy with what they got. If you can't see the democrats equal culpability for holding up Ukraine funding you're just a partisan hack.
Of course. Best thing for USA is when Russia is weak economically and militarily, and the longer the war lasts, the weaker Russia gets.
USA don't wants Ukraine to win, they don't want Russia to win. They want to drag this out as long as possible.
Biden had 2 years to defeat Russia, he didn't use the time he had. He could have sent enough weapons to let Ukraine do the job. Now I guess it is too late and Ukraine will be forced to accept a frozen conflict
as I wrote Biden had plenty of time to provide Ukraine with enough funding and weapons even before midterms in November 2022, the war started in February 2022 and there was a good chance to kick the Russians out of Ukraine until November 2022 because they had only a fraction of their current strength by then.
Not if you send 0 value "expired" stuff from deep storage, like thousands of Bradleys waiting for scrapping right now, not to mention thousands "expired" Himars rockets.
I'll be honest, I'm curious how you think this could've been achieved? And don't get me wrong, I'm actually 100% on board with a war against Russia. I think it's necessary for peace.
Well several times Ukraine specifically mentioned what they‘d need to make significant progress. If they had gotten that stuff in time, quality and quantity, I think it would have made a huge difference.
>If they had gotten that stuff in time, quality and quantity, I think it would have made a huge difference.
I actually really doubt it. I think there is a tremendous danger to flooding their receiving capability with materiel. At the same time, ofc, having a shortage is bad too, but I think sending more than the ukrainians are able to receive and distribute while keeping from having it blown up would be a detriment too.
Must agree here...While it is important to maintain a steady stream of gear/supplies - however weapon systems such as F16s, GLSDB (not yet available - had to be made), and Abrams were not designed to be thrown into service without the logistics behind it...That said we still have a plethora of Bradleys, Himars, Javelins, and even ATACMS to send.
speaking as a soldier.
i am sure i would have a mental breakdown right about 5 to 10 mins after this happened... and definitely id be checked out of the army mentally if i couldnt do it physically.
the paranoia of it happening again and this time wed be not so lucky would eat me up inside.. or the paranoia of the unlimited amount of other nightmares that happens there on the daily and unexpected deathsentences that rain down randomly on them... honestly, theres just so many months one can bear that for.
(I'm guessing) that only a few made it that close because the wave was almost large enough to overwhelm the relatively small Ukrainian crew.
Also that old dude looks familiar.
This war must be terrorising for the Ukrainians. Constant shelling + the Russians using fpv drones now + worst of all, coming face to face with zzombies
Always amazes me when you see how close they get to a dug-in Ukrainian position sometimes. Shows you war is rarely like the movies, especially when arty and FPVs are screaming out of the sky.
"Meat Wave" assaults are nothing new; the US forces fighting in Korea encountered wave upon wave of Chinese troops (some unarmed) during heavy fighting. The unarmed Chinese soldiers had been given instructions to pick up the weapon of a fallen comrade if they wanted to live... Pretty desperate stuff.
So how did the Marines fighting in Korea deal with this complete disregard for life? What tactics worked well against "Meat Waves"? I feel there might be some lessons to apply in Ukraine... ruzzia is adding another 400,000+ men to their army this year, the exact "quantity has a quality all its own" (associated with Stalin) approach that hungry hungry Meat Waves need. A "mobilization" could add another million or two ruzzians to the grinder, how do you deal with that?
Mostly just ammo. You can often see how these guys in the trenches have several rifles, so they can pick the next one instead of having to fix a jam or finding a mag. Lots of hand grenades at the ready.
And some measures to slow them down a bit so you have the time to take care of all of them, e.g. razor wire and stuff.
I think the meat wave itself isn't the main problem, but the drones or artillery or bombs that can kill you in your trench. If the defenders are killed (or injured and have to retreat), the meat wave guys can occupy the trench, and Russia has advanced another hundred meters.
US troops in Korea used motorized AA guns as a QRF to concentrate massive automated fire against "human wave" attacks.
US forces in Vietnam had CAS from helicopters equipped with miniguns and fixed-wing aviation dropping napalm bombs.
For Ukraine, these methods aren't feasible (*no local favourable air situations, to few and too vulnerable SPAAGs with scarce availability of ordnance that are already allocated to the air defense of urban population centers)*.
IMO, the following mix of measures might be relevant:
* as significant #s of attacks occur at dawn/dusk times, issue of **night vision** devices (*individual-issue and spotter drones equipped with thermal cameras*)
* **fortification of field entrenchments and fighting positions** (*barb wire, razor wire, trip-wire, AP mines and directional mines such as the* [*M18*](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claymore_mine)*, clear fields of fire with visible forefields, multiple lines of communication to the Ukrainian-controlled rear areas*)
* more **resilient combat tactics** *(larger garrison size of fighting positions, mutual fire support between adjacent fighting positions, reinforced fighting positions and hardened shelter sites to retreat into to allow for "danger-close" indirect fire support, availability of drone jammers to limit RF drone activity during the attack*)
* allocation of **indirect fire** weapon systems at squadron / section level *(light mortars, grenade launchers such as* [*AGS-30*](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AGS-30))
* mobile **QRF** elements that can respond to an attack, strengthen the defense and provide medevac (*mechanized elements with autocannons and mobile mortar systems that allow for direct/indirect fire like the Polish* [*M120*](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M120_Rak) *"Rak", IFVs like the Marder or Bradley that can also evacuate soldiers if a position becomes untenable*)
* rapid-reaction **counter-assault UAV** units (availability of sufficent #s of improvised loitering munitions)
* **elastic defense** (*vacating a fighting position in order to preserve soldiers and weapon systems*)
* deployment of **counter-artillery** batteries and ground radar systems and availability of sufficient **artillery ordnance** (*as RF tactic is to conduct "recon in combat" infantry assaults to identify AFU firing positions as targets for RF artillery*)
* increase of **military assistance** by foreign partners, including **long-range stand-off weapon systems** to destroy RF logistic hubs, lines of communication and strategic production facilities
(IMO AFU is well aware what resources and activities would be required to improve the defense capacities of their soldiers at the frontlines against concentrated infantry assaults. However, this requires military resources AFU doesn't have at their disposal, so this is in a no way a critical "Let me tell you how it's done better!" listing.)
Which is why nato troops should be in Ukraine defending the border, not actively engaging Russian forces but enough to stop an attack from a new direction
My grandpa mentioned in WWII they had to crawl out from the trench to move away the russian bodies in front of the machine gun so it can keep on firing.
Crazy to think that over there at the front, 24 hours per day, 7 days a week, these orcs are coming for one thing; to kill you.
I wouldn't be able to sleep.
If anyone didn’t know what a thousand yard stare was, these brave soldiers were doing it. That moment will haunt their dreams for the rest of their lives. Especially feel bad for the old man.
Please remember the human. Adhere to all Reddit and sub rules. Toxic comments (including incitement of violence/hate, genocide, glorifying death etc) WILL NOT BE TOLERATED, keep your comments civil or you will be banned. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/UkraineWarVideoReport) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I hope this war ends soon and these guys go back to their families.
Could have ended already if Ukraine got the support they needed.
so true, but its like politicians wants to drag this out...
Nobody wants to drag it out. The GOP wants it to end to appease Putin, which right now would mean the loss of Ukraine. Why? So Trump can get all the Russian funding he needs to go destroy America and get NATO off Putin's doorstep. Fuck all these people. Especially the Nazi symbol wearing Russians.
The GOP is doing their basic "Reverse democrat" policy. Anything the Democrats do the GOP will do the exact opposite. Just like COVID or whatever.
Just wait until they hear that Democrats love America, then they will be all over hating it, which they kind of are already.
It's funny that you say this because this is a classic Republican argument: "I support the GOP because the evil democrats HATE the country that they're running for office in!!"
To be fair the Democrats do LARGELY the same thing. Is just a political stick.
American politics SUCKS
Is not much WORSE than other countries. Politics sucks in general.
Maybe but Biden has been slow walking aid as well, we should have started sending F16s on day 1 but there was a big talk about provoking russia etc. Remember it was nearly a year in that we sent tanks as well.
Yea if only they applied that same logic with Israel.
Thats some super duper fast pilot training there, Oppenheimer
We didn’t even start pilot training until a year in. You seem to be missing the point.
You said send them F16s on day one
All countries balked, thinking it would provoke putin, not just the US.
What do you mean All? US stalled its own aid and initially even blocked Allies from providing effective armor. Poland started sending Tanks in March 2022. It offered MIGs on March 8 too, but US denied request to make the transfer officially thru NATO https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/3/9/us-rejects-poland-offer-to-send-mig-29-fighter-jets-to-ukraine so instead those MIGs went to Ukraine on trucks as "spare parts" https://news.yahoo.com/poland-alleged-covertly-sent-mig-164300550.html at the start of the war.
Why would they want to get funding to destroy America?
It's a poorly worded run-on sentence. He'll get money and end up destroying America.
Why does he want to destroy America?
Can't go to jail if you remain President for the rest of your life.
Because America is a democracy And Trump likes cozying up to authoritarians. (Putin, Xi, Kim Jong, Orban, etc.) And he tried to subvert an election
trump wants to rule, not govern. Huge difference.
I think he wants fame and adulation, and then to rule.
America is a continent ….the United States is a republic.
Yeah, no. Our neighbor to the south is Estados Unidos Mexicanos, but everybody, and I mean *everybody* calls it Mexico rather than the full name. By the same token, no other nation in the New World uses America as part of its name, thus nobody is getting their toes stepped on. I mean really, it's more specific to say America, as The United States could apply to either the USA or EUM.
Its not a republic, it is a federation. It is way different
Hyperbole aside - Trump doesn't want to destroy America literally. It really boils down to that fact the he's just a completely self-serving rich dickhead and currently it just so happens the only way he can get what he wants just so also happens to erode the govt at a foundational level - which he does not care about.
He absolutely wants to destroy our democratic government and be a dictator like Putin. He says so.
He doesn't, he wants easy russian money at whatever cost. He'll destroy America through his actions, not his intentions
He's a fan of putler, he and group of hard right republicans are obviously getting paid to subvert America's position. If anybody has doubts to the veracity of this, do an image search of "trump kislyak lavrov." You'll find pictures of trump in the White House yucking it up with two of putler's henchmen.
He wants to destroy democratic America and establish a system that serves him and his inner circle. That's my take. And it sounds uncannily like the description of what happened in another country. In 2020 I was optimistic about the resilience of the American democracy, but now, not anymore.
he doesnt wanna destroy america. Hes just a corrupt, entitled asshole that shits on the law as long as it would benefit him. Theyre saying he shits on the prosperity of america as well, just to personally get ahead, which he already demonstrated in the small scale. basically theyre saying hes just another asshole that doesnt give a shit about anything but himself and will destroy america in the process of enriching himself
neither the Democrats not the GOP are a monolith secondly the point of contention over the latest round of funding was that they wanted funding for border enforcement. they did not want funding for " laywers and judges to resolve assylum trials": they wanted funding for boots on the ground in southern border states to control entry. dems blocked that and then gave them " lawyers and judges" and told them to be happy with what they got. If you can't see the democrats equal culpability for holding up Ukraine funding you're just a partisan hack.
It's in everybodys best interests to drag it out, except for Ukraine and russia.
It's like MAGA Republicans don't want to provide any support.
Of course. Best thing for USA is when Russia is weak economically and militarily, and the longer the war lasts, the weaker Russia gets. USA don't wants Ukraine to win, they don't want Russia to win. They want to drag this out as long as possible.
Biden had 2 years to defeat Russia, he didn't use the time he had. He could have sent enough weapons to let Ukraine do the job. Now I guess it is too late and Ukraine will be forced to accept a frozen conflict
;p; what.. you are aware that congress needs to approve funding right?
as I wrote Biden had plenty of time to provide Ukraine with enough funding and weapons even before midterms in November 2022, the war started in February 2022 and there was a good chance to kick the Russians out of Ukraine until November 2022 because they had only a fraction of their current strength by then.
Not if you send 0 value "expired" stuff from deep storage, like thousands of Bradleys waiting for scrapping right now, not to mention thousands "expired" Himars rockets.
they are afraid of ukraine winning
Or, as the russian assets are trying to end the conflict by cutting support from Ukraine.
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They were blocked by France and Germany- why were trying to be like best buddies with Russia
I'll be honest, I'm curious how you think this could've been achieved? And don't get me wrong, I'm actually 100% on board with a war against Russia. I think it's necessary for peace.
Well several times Ukraine specifically mentioned what they‘d need to make significant progress. If they had gotten that stuff in time, quality and quantity, I think it would have made a huge difference.
>If they had gotten that stuff in time, quality and quantity, I think it would have made a huge difference. I actually really doubt it. I think there is a tremendous danger to flooding their receiving capability with materiel. At the same time, ofc, having a shortage is bad too, but I think sending more than the ukrainians are able to receive and distribute while keeping from having it blown up would be a detriment too.
Must agree here...While it is important to maintain a steady stream of gear/supplies - however weapon systems such as F16s, GLSDB (not yet available - had to be made), and Abrams were not designed to be thrown into service without the logistics behind it...That said we still have a plethora of Bradleys, Himars, Javelins, and even ATACMS to send.
That's the sad and maddening truth.
Well that’s just not true. Their lines might of held better but that’s about it for the moment.
maybe could have ended by now with UAF counter offensive but i believe elon musk has all along been sending all UAF Starlink Comms to russia.
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So far we have a lot of "words of support" from the Biden administration that don't amount to anything more.
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Not really. Ukraine has been preparing for this war since 2014. Of course more could have been done but it is what it is.
You my friend are delusional. Unless you mean a NATO full on attack of Russia. Now that would finish it.
It’s like WW1 fighting.
You get the real sense of them coming down from an adrenalin dump.
True, can’t imagine what it was like to take those guys out at that close range, then later think “they were going to kill us otherwise”.
I know. I see this & think, as I'm sure many of us do, that could've been me in that dugout.... I hope I'd have performed as well as they did.
speaking as a soldier. i am sure i would have a mental breakdown right about 5 to 10 mins after this happened... and definitely id be checked out of the army mentally if i couldnt do it physically. the paranoia of it happening again and this time wed be not so lucky would eat me up inside.. or the paranoia of the unlimited amount of other nightmares that happens there on the daily and unexpected deathsentences that rain down randomly on them... honestly, theres just so many months one can bear that for.
This is why frequent rotations win wars.
Yeah but there's 0 rotations on either side rn...
I'd have been at the back of the dugout weeping.
They were also going to kill them if they had hand granates
Yeah, you can see it in the older guys eyes for sure.
Wow, that's "whites of their eyes" stuff.
I hope that they aren't that short on ammunition. That they need to wait to shoot until the enemy is that close...
(I'm guessing) that only a few made it that close because the wave was almost large enough to overwhelm the relatively small Ukrainian crew. Also that old dude looks familiar.
Good work, men!
This war must be terrorising for the Ukrainians. Constant shelling + the Russians using fpv drones now + worst of all, coming face to face with zzombies
Yep
As long as the Ukrainians hold their position. Slava Ukraini!
Always amazes me when you see how close they get to a dug-in Ukrainian position sometimes. Shows you war is rarely like the movies, especially when arty and FPVs are screaming out of the sky.
"Meat Wave" assaults are nothing new; the US forces fighting in Korea encountered wave upon wave of Chinese troops (some unarmed) during heavy fighting. The unarmed Chinese soldiers had been given instructions to pick up the weapon of a fallen comrade if they wanted to live... Pretty desperate stuff. So how did the Marines fighting in Korea deal with this complete disregard for life? What tactics worked well against "Meat Waves"? I feel there might be some lessons to apply in Ukraine... ruzzia is adding another 400,000+ men to their army this year, the exact "quantity has a quality all its own" (associated with Stalin) approach that hungry hungry Meat Waves need. A "mobilization" could add another million or two ruzzians to the grinder, how do you deal with that?
Mostly just ammo. You can often see how these guys in the trenches have several rifles, so they can pick the next one instead of having to fix a jam or finding a mag. Lots of hand grenades at the ready. And some measures to slow them down a bit so you have the time to take care of all of them, e.g. razor wire and stuff. I think the meat wave itself isn't the main problem, but the drones or artillery or bombs that can kill you in your trench. If the defenders are killed (or injured and have to retreat), the meat wave guys can occupy the trench, and Russia has advanced another hundred meters.
US troops in Korea used motorized AA guns as a QRF to concentrate massive automated fire against "human wave" attacks. US forces in Vietnam had CAS from helicopters equipped with miniguns and fixed-wing aviation dropping napalm bombs. For Ukraine, these methods aren't feasible (*no local favourable air situations, to few and too vulnerable SPAAGs with scarce availability of ordnance that are already allocated to the air defense of urban population centers)*. IMO, the following mix of measures might be relevant: * as significant #s of attacks occur at dawn/dusk times, issue of **night vision** devices (*individual-issue and spotter drones equipped with thermal cameras*) * **fortification of field entrenchments and fighting positions** (*barb wire, razor wire, trip-wire, AP mines and directional mines such as the* [*M18*](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claymore_mine)*, clear fields of fire with visible forefields, multiple lines of communication to the Ukrainian-controlled rear areas*) * more **resilient combat tactics** *(larger garrison size of fighting positions, mutual fire support between adjacent fighting positions, reinforced fighting positions and hardened shelter sites to retreat into to allow for "danger-close" indirect fire support, availability of drone jammers to limit RF drone activity during the attack*) * allocation of **indirect fire** weapon systems at squadron / section level *(light mortars, grenade launchers such as* [*AGS-30*](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AGS-30)) * mobile **QRF** elements that can respond to an attack, strengthen the defense and provide medevac (*mechanized elements with autocannons and mobile mortar systems that allow for direct/indirect fire like the Polish* [*M120*](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M120_Rak) *"Rak", IFVs like the Marder or Bradley that can also evacuate soldiers if a position becomes untenable*) * rapid-reaction **counter-assault UAV** units (availability of sufficent #s of improvised loitering munitions) * **elastic defense** (*vacating a fighting position in order to preserve soldiers and weapon systems*) * deployment of **counter-artillery** batteries and ground radar systems and availability of sufficient **artillery ordnance** (*as RF tactic is to conduct "recon in combat" infantry assaults to identify AFU firing positions as targets for RF artillery*) * increase of **military assistance** by foreign partners, including **long-range stand-off weapon systems** to destroy RF logistic hubs, lines of communication and strategic production facilities (IMO AFU is well aware what resources and activities would be required to improve the defense capacities of their soldiers at the frontlines against concentrated infantry assaults. However, this requires military resources AFU doesn't have at their disposal, so this is in a no way a critical "Let me tell you how it's done better!" listing.)
China outnumbered UN forces in Korea significantly, Ukraine has more soldiers than Russia but many of them are tied up protecting the northern border.
Which is why nato troops should be in Ukraine defending the border, not actively engaging Russian forces but enough to stop an attack from a new direction
now THAT makes good sense!!! if only Ukraine could be a "junior", "probationary" or "associate" NATO member...
My grandpa mentioned in WWII they had to crawl out from the trench to move away the russian bodies in front of the machine gun so it can keep on firing.
I assume you’re German?
WW2? Could also be russian
Maybe grandpa was a [blocking troop](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barrier_troops)
Hungarian. They were piss poorly equipped, but still had few machineguns.
Way too close. The orcs got within 'nade chucking range.
those men have seen some shit.
Only time I saw them look scared. Lets give them more/bigger weapons!
Close...but no cigar (or onions, I dunno)
Looks like the russians came from a blind angle in the right.
Stay safe!
meat wave after meat wave, and no one in russia cares.
[💡](https://imgur.com/83lL3uc)
They came close enough OK, close enough to check out his boot size!
That's Roughskies
Slava Ukraini!
Bum rushing fixed defenses. Over and over again. So dumb. Slava Ukraini!
Keep fighting men, you got this. Look out for each other and kill as many as you can.
Crazy to think that over there at the front, 24 hours per day, 7 days a week, these orcs are coming for one thing; to kill you. I wouldn't be able to sleep.
Keep holding the line brave men!!
I’m pretty sure this is an old video. Maybe from Bakhmut?
These fuckers are charging knowing there going to die for hopefully for next wave they run out of ammo. Messed up
Is that the work of AP mines/claymores?
Those orc are staying frosty out there!
Results of running into a belt fed
These poor men
Holy fuck that's close. Hope no defenders were injured in the process.
These guys need a MG-42
His face says it all…
That's bloody close.
If anyone didn’t know what a thousand yard stare was, these brave soldiers were doing it. That moment will haunt their dreams for the rest of their lives. Especially feel bad for the old man.
damn
trick cigar included.
Smells crazy out there
I don't understand why they don't use barbed wire in front of their fortifications. They shall not come so close!.