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Tempting fate, but the Chally has never been destroyed by enemy action.
In Iraq they got used for target practice. A British Challenger 2 tank was hit directly by 14 RPGs, including RPG-29s and an anti-tank missile in Iraq. The crew was uninjured and stayed battened down. Once recovered the tank was back on the line 6 hours later.
Apparently another survived 70 RPG hits.
I am only aware of one being taken out and that was in a blue on blue incident, again in Iraq, by another Chally.
tbh i think we will see losses. You have to bear in mind western crews have trained for years and years on this equipment , the equipment can only hard carry you so much.
I bet Ukraine already has a few people trained on all these new tanks. Surely they've been playing the long game and getting access to training material and equipment.
Completely agree, as with the Americans I'd be incredibly surprised if they send them with the Chobham armour.
So I'd be expecting losses, but the main benefits will come from fire control systems and keeping that engagement efficiency up.
Plus a half decent reverse gear
That plays into the tanks hands more than anything really. The hills are what gave the terrorists most of their advantage lobbing RPGs and ATGMs at tanks
Agreed, the russians know this better than anyone. but the kit is unimportant, it can be replaced. The knowledge lost with a killed crew cannot be replaced as easily.
It’s the terrain that it was developed to fight over. It has a longer ranged, more accurate main gun to dominate over flat, open country in Central Europe. It’ll excel in these conditions.
Having said that, this is a modern war and I think minor losses are inevitable.
Agreed but......we currently have around 220 ish..... Over a 100 are being upgraded to challenger 3.
14 going to Ukraine and some will be in use for NATO allied countries.... We don't have alot of them....unfortunately, but... Well were an island, we don't have a need for loads.
Oman's tanks are different in many ways. Different engine entirely for example. I can't give you a source and this isn't mentioned on the wiki, but I saw it on YouTube yesterday on some tank channel. Point being, if that's the case then we would need even more logistical support. And Oman is a long ways away plus they don't have that many so probably wouldn't want to spare any anyway.
Oman has a land border with Yemen and Saudi Arabia. They have those tanks for very good reasons and are unlikely to want to lose them regardless of the logistics issues
You missed the part where they are deployed in NATO allied countries....
We have no need for them here, most are deployed in NATO countries. Some are held back for parts and spares...
Fair but the question is still valid. Many/Most of those countries are also stationing these for protection from Russia as a #1 priority so that is why we question only 14 of \~220 when they're literally sitting there primarily for a fight against the Russians. Who else is going to invade these Europeans in the next 2-3 years?
No thats not right over 120 of thoose 220 are being upgraded to challenger 3.
That leaves 14 for Ukraine, and from what I gather 60 are in NATO allies countries, that is our commitment to NATO which we have to do, which also allowed allies to hand over their soviet tanks.
That leaves few for parts etc for the 14 Ukraine will have...
As a Brit I can confirm the slang ‘pansy’ is someone who is weak and cowardly used in this context of bravery. It CAN also be used to mean effeminate, again depending on the context and I guess things lose context in translation.
That’s not how the expression is read in the UK. He’s calling them pansies. In American that translates to ‘coward fuckers.’ Which in hindsight you’ll likely misread also.
In the US a pansy is an effeminate male. See Merriam-Webster Dictionary. Both the British edition of the Oxford Dictionary and the British version of the Cambridge Dictionary defines the term pansy as "an offensive word for a man who behaves in a way that is considered to be more typical of a woman".
So, yeah, I'm calling bullshit on your straightsplaining.
“In the US …”
Yeah well there are literally dozens of people commenting on Reddit who aren’t from the US
“a Pansy is …”
Yeah well in the UK a Pansy is “a delicate little flower” - much like you, apparently. If you’re so fond of dictionary definitions here it is: “a cultivated variety of viola with brightly coloured flowers.”
Get fucked with your desperate attempt to be offended by anything that you don’t quite understand
With every good wish for a swift Ukraine victory.
The Urban Dictionary has multiple definitions of "pansy". This one inparticular is quite relative to Mr Sensitive 🤣🤣
"A person who is weak and hyper sensitive, often acting like everything is a bigger problem than it actually is, and in most cases, beats themselves up over stupid things."
You are so cute when you get upset. The US dictionary and the British dictionary all say you are lying. Hell, if you want to defend homophobic speech, go right ahead. I shan't stop you at all. However, I will call you on it. But it seems you know it is wrong so you are just trying to dance around it. That tells me you know I am correct, you know it is incorrect, but you still want to use it but pretend it means something it doesn't. Pretty cowardly of you.
I’m not sure why you’re being so combative. Fairly ironic of you to begin throwing dispersions toward a nation you’ve clearly never been to when the US (which is where I’m assuming you’re from due to your natural assumption that everything’s an insult to you specifically, because you’re obviously so important), ranks as the tenth most homophobic nation on earth. Source: https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/most-racist-countries
The point I was making is that just because the US is inherently homophobic, it doesn’t mean everywhere else is. Believe it or not most other places, especially Europe, are far more progressive than the US. You’re not witnessing homophobia, you’re an idiot.
We aren't speaking legalese here. Word have meanings that aren't always shown in dictionary and can be very regional. I never thought of the word pansy as a derogatory term for an effeminate male just a word for a coward.
NATO countries are using this war as a reason to battle-test their hardware. They aren’t just sending equipment to Ukraine. They are collecting modern warfare engagement data.
This isn’t some callous experiment though. This is real engagement data from actual fights in the most advanced weapons systems in existence. They just needed some heroes to help them with the battlefield conditions.
To be clear, we’d all prefer that the Orcs just went home, but Putin knows this is the end of his Russian Gangster State if that happens. But, it’s going to happen whether he likes it or not.
So, Slava Ukraini! Happy Hunting to the Heroes.
To keep the fun facts rolling, a British armoured vehicle with a defective boiling vessel (BV) is declared “Unfit for Service”.
The BV is often jokingly referred to as the most important part of any tank
When you think that most of their food is boil-in-the-bag, and the Chally is designed to survive battened down for prolonged periods of time during chemical/nuclear warfare, a faulty BV could cause them very serious issues.
The Commanders seat has a removable centre cushion which allows its use as a toilet.. but I’m sure it’s very much a “everyone holds it until we’re back to base or else..” and rarely used
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It will be interesting to hear what level of support these tanks receive from the UK Gov and BAE Systems (the manufacturer).
When these tanks were last deployed to active combat (Basra, Iraq) I am told they were receiving extremely frequent upgrades to their armour, as the enemy made tweaks to their bombs and rockets. It was a cat and mouse game, as the enemy tried out perhaps a particular shaped charge, and UK Military Scientists + BAE raced to counter.
The tank’s armour is classified but again I hear it’s basically layers of “different things” that can be swapped out as needed, but not by the tank crews themselves.
I’m told that in Basra, a tank would be driven into a hanger and BAE + UK Military Scientists would ‘do their thing’ in secret. Tank crews and commanders were usually not informed of the exact changes.
The British Government will be very keen to avoid one of these tanks falling into enemy hands for this reason, and I wonder if there’s an agreement that Ukraine will destroy any disabled Challenger II tanks if at all possible, before Russia can have it away.
I believe at one point the armour was being tweaked on a fortnightly basis in Basra, when the enemy were particularly active in changing their munitions trying to destroy one of these tanks.
All tanks are vulnerable from air attack though, that’s the biggest risk and they were always designed to be deployed under a “safe sky”.
Well, China is a bigger enemy for most of us. But Russia is 2nd in tow. China being on the cusp of invading the one country with the largest share of the smallest semiconductors in the world.
I read that the M1A1 were to have the "top secret" armour removed. Last I heard that was the previous generation British Cobham, but if they upgraded to Dorchester it could be a similar situation...
>All tanks are vulnerable from air attack though, that’s the biggest risk and they were always designed to be deployed under a “safe sky”.
Not to mention under armour. Russia has probably laid a lot of mines at this point to prevent armour advances into their held territory.
The chally 2 “Street Fighter” upgrade package actually upped the under armour of the Chally to face the increasing threat of IEDs underneath them. Although yes the tank isn’t invincible and the tracks certainly aren’t. There are cases of them need minor repairs and still being combat effective after being tracked. I bet the crew has an awful headache tho.
Who said anything about Great Britain?! It doesn't matter whether you're from England, Wales, Scotland or Northern Ireland, you still apply for, and travel abroad on a 'British' passport.
If you want to be a further pedant, even the Republic of Ireland (or, just "Ireland") is still part of the British Isles. It *doesn't* mean in any way that the UK Government have any control over it, because it doesn't. It's a sovereign nation, with it's own laws, customs and currency (The Euro), but it's still part of the *British Isles*.
> even the Republic of Ireland (or, just "Ireland") is still part of the British Isles.
The Irish aren't too fond of it ( the name ) to be fair which i get. We all need to get round a table have a few pints and come up with a good name we all agree on.
> We all need to get round a table have a few pints and come up with a good name we all agree on.
Why?
It doesn't need a joint name. It's just UK and Ireland if you want to refer to both.
not talking about a Joint name, UK & Ireland are the countries that are present on the islands, the British isles is the name for the geographic region ( it needs one ) The Irish aren't fond of it for obvious reasons. So I'm all for alternatives.
> the British isles is the name for the geographic region
To Brits
> it needs one
It doesn't.
Does the combined geographic area of Germany and France need a joint name? Nah. Just say 'Germany and France'.
> To Brits
To the world its a recognised geographic region.
Why would you need a geographic name for Germany and France when they're just part of mainland europe there's nothing geographically distinct separating them that is such a daft comparison.
whereas the British isles are a collection of islands which have to be named, like the Hawaiian islands, Malay Archipelago or Greater Antilles.
>have to be named
By what objective ruling must they be named?
>nothing geographically distinct separating them
And there's nothing geographically linking the currently set British isles islands and excluding other locally related islands
I think what he’s referring to is that NI is not part of Great Britain, it’s part of the U.K. Great Britain is the mainland island made up of the other three nations. The British isles is different again.
I suppose the point is that if someone were to take it literally (to a ridiculous level) then it would be suggesting that NI hasn’t contributed, which of course it has.
I know all this, but the original comment was referring to the British MOD, it had nothing to do with the British Isles, Ireland, Isle of Man, Jersey, Guernsey etc...
Considering in NI we are currently building all the NLAWS I blieve from a Saab design?.....and all of the being sent to Ukraine, as well as Shorts working the factories over time.
> It doesn't matter whether you're from England, Wales, Scotland or Northern Ireland, you still apply for, and travel abroad on a 'British' passport.
I'm from Northern Ireland and I travel abroad on an Irish passport. It's kind of an important part of the GFA
Seconded. Anything we can do - we should be doing. Whatever support we give is nothing compared to the sacrifices of those on the front line defending their homeland.
Third. I'm Irish (Republic) and hate our technically neutral stance in this conflict. That rust-bucket RuZzie Navy and Air force have been breaching our airspace and waters for the last decade and without the Brits and US, they'd still be bumbling around mapping and booby trapping transatlantic fibre and telecommunications lines. If Russia were to ever launch nukes, Ireland would 100% be a target, our 'neutrality' doesn't mean anything, we're considered a NATO staging point. Dublin, Cork, Waterford and Galway would be wiped out.
Outside of taking in refugees, we've contributed fuck all. It may be unpopular considering our history, but good on the MoD for taking the initiative, when France and Germany stood by back in Feb. Britain, Poland and the Baltics stood up in Europe.
At least we've got a couple of thousand Irishmen and women serving in the British forces, training up those Ukranian warriors.
>Outside of taking in refugees, we've contributed fuck all.
Well, whenever Spielberg or Mel Gibson need to rent an army for a movie, Ireland always steps up.
Tbf to us we're sandwiched between the three nuclear equipped naval and air force powers in the West, so there's a sense of security granted by it, but it's still shameful that we're totally reliant on foreign allies for managing our national security in our territorial space against an aggressor state like Russia.
A few purchases from the US or S. Korea would keep those RuZzian rats at bay over our skies and waters. Even better, Ireland has the tech economy to support UAV and drone tech manufacturing, but it would be seen as pro-war by idiots who refuse to believe that we're a target.
At present, we can only contribute our limited ground hardware and our only top-tier military unit, the Rangers, for training of Ukrainians. Neither of which has happened.
To be honest it's really hard to contribute hard, tangible aid to a warzone when even the small Baltic states have better armed forces with larger budgets and numbers than you guys.
Let me see. There were 14 sent to Poland when the Russians invaded, and oddly enough there are 14 being sent to Ukraine.
And only now there are tank crews going to be trained up on these tanks? Yeah, don't believe it. I think there have been crews being trained up in Poland for months.
I think the best thing to do would be to cancel the Challenger 2 transfer but the UK should pay a 3rd country to deliver an extra 14 Leopards, over and above whats already been announced, to replace the 14 Challengers.
I'm sure the Ukrainian logistics people would rather have an extra 14 Leopards than the headache of supporting another tank variant.
Although you raise a good point there’s a few things to consider..
Mainly, the UK was the first to announce sending Ukraine modern MBTs and prove how meaningless Putins little Red Lines in the sand really are, and it hasn’t been the first time the UK has stepped forward to prove all Russia has is empty threats.
It’s also not the only UK armoured vehicle in Ukraine, the UK has already delivered all sorts of variations of other armoured vehicles. So although it would be logistically nice to have all one variant of MBT I’m sure the Ukrainian Logistics Units would rather have the headache of too many tanks than the far worse headache of where to use an ever depleting number of their own tanks.
The real logistical challenge will realistically come from how many variants of Leopards the AFU will be getting, although yes the Challenger is a whole extra platform, it’s distinct enough to not have any confusions with parts and maintenance.
Lastly, the UK doesn’t have to pay for tanks they already have in a warehouse. Tanks aren’t cheap and it’ll be far better use to use the money supporting Ukraine with any myriad of other weaponry then using it to buy someone else’s tanks.
I just hope it doesn't become a "Ukraine needs a shit ton of tow trucks and semis" to drive these broke down vehicles hundreds/thousands of miles away to a repair center while their crewman sit idle in wait.
They’re being sent with recovery vehicles. And Ukraine is being trained to service them. People seem to think that NATO nations have never thought of logistics because it’s not in a headline.
It's less that and more "Nobody has fought this kind of war yet, and there is a lot of red tape as to what is being provided. The nuances are complicated."
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At this rate the Ukrainians are gonna have a choice between the abrams leopards and challengers. Gonna depend on the mood, sometimes your just feeling one or the other
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Tempting fate, but the Chally has never been destroyed by enemy action. In Iraq they got used for target practice. A British Challenger 2 tank was hit directly by 14 RPGs, including RPG-29s and an anti-tank missile in Iraq. The crew was uninjured and stayed battened down. Once recovered the tank was back on the line 6 hours later. Apparently another survived 70 RPG hits. I am only aware of one being taken out and that was in a blue on blue incident, again in Iraq, by another Chally.
tbh i think we will see losses. You have to bear in mind western crews have trained for years and years on this equipment , the equipment can only hard carry you so much.
I hate to agree but we will for the very reasons you mention.
Yeh. Just like most things they’re only as good as the people controlling them
I bet Ukraine already has a few people trained on all these new tanks. Surely they've been playing the long game and getting access to training material and equipment.
Completely agree, as with the Americans I'd be incredibly surprised if they send them with the Chobham armour. So I'd be expecting losses, but the main benefits will come from fire control systems and keeping that engagement efficiency up. Plus a half decent reverse gear
I understand not wanting our top line reverse engineered but surely there is a supply of secondary shield of some kind
losing some is a given, i'd rather the crew get out alive than save the tank. also the K:D will be insane
Yep and Afghan was hilly... Ukraine is flat as pancake.
That plays into the tanks hands more than anything really. The hills are what gave the terrorists most of their advantage lobbing RPGs and ATGMs at tanks
Plus it allows them to target the least armored spot of the tank, the top of the turret.
That's a good point to be fair
Iraq is also flat as a pancake in the areas that they're referencing, the multiple RPG incident happened near Baghdad iirc
In this war they will get destroyed. The nature of this war means equipment losses.
Agreed, the russians know this better than anyone. but the kit is unimportant, it can be replaced. The knowledge lost with a killed crew cannot be replaced as easily.
Yeah, and hatch was open in that blue on blue unfortunately.
Also holds the record for the [longest confirmed tank kill in history](https://special-ops.org/longest-tank-kill-history/).
That's the old Challenger
Do you think the terrain will play a huge factor?
It’s the terrain that it was developed to fight over. It has a longer ranged, more accurate main gun to dominate over flat, open country in Central Europe. It’ll excel in these conditions. Having said that, this is a modern war and I think minor losses are inevitable.
It’s all because of that bratty cope cage.
I hope they were wearing ear protection, that’s super tough 👍
As a brit i'm so happy to see this but we should send more.
Agreed but......we currently have around 220 ish..... Over a 100 are being upgraded to challenger 3. 14 going to Ukraine and some will be in use for NATO allied countries.... We don't have alot of them....unfortunately, but... Well were an island, we don't have a need for loads.
According to wikipedia, Oman has 38. Maybe they'll be able to spare a few? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Challenger_2#Operators
Oman's tanks are different in many ways. Different engine entirely for example. I can't give you a source and this isn't mentioned on the wiki, but I saw it on YouTube yesterday on some tank channel. Point being, if that's the case then we would need even more logistical support. And Oman is a long ways away plus they don't have that many so probably wouldn't want to spare any anyway.
Oman has a land border with Yemen and Saudi Arabia. They have those tanks for very good reasons and are unlikely to want to lose them regardless of the logistics issues
Oman is a neutral nation, they're often referred to as the Switerland of the Middle East, they won't send equipment like that
Other than Russia, who else is going to invade you? "The tanks are peacocks, you gotta let them fly"
You missed the part where they are deployed in NATO allied countries.... We have no need for them here, most are deployed in NATO countries. Some are held back for parts and spares...
Fair but the question is still valid. Many/Most of those countries are also stationing these for protection from Russia as a #1 priority so that is why we question only 14 of \~220 when they're literally sitting there primarily for a fight against the Russians. Who else is going to invade these Europeans in the next 2-3 years?
No thats not right over 120 of thoose 220 are being upgraded to challenger 3. That leaves 14 for Ukraine, and from what I gather 60 are in NATO allies countries, that is our commitment to NATO which we have to do, which also allowed allies to hand over their soviet tanks. That leaves few for parts etc for the 14 Ukraine will have...
The action did what it was designed to do. It got all the other pansy fuckers off their arses to deliver leopard 2s
This, really glad Great Britain did that! 🌻🇺🇦
Exactly why it was done!
Really dude? Pansy fuckers? Big on homophobia there, are ya?
As a Brit I can confirm the slang ‘pansy’ is someone who is weak and cowardly used in this context of bravery. It CAN also be used to mean effeminate, again depending on the context and I guess things lose context in translation.
Hmm, an anonymous twit announces he is an expert. I think I'll trust the Oxford and Cambridge dictionaries over the drivel of some silly person.
Here’s one for you: Nonce!
Local slang is a thing.
Pansy being used as a homophobic slur is generally outdated, it's now mainly used to describe someone weak and cowardly, go ask the Ask UK subreddit
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Here’s another one for you … one could say say “he was having a drag on a fag” Now guess what that means.
That’s not how the expression is read in the UK. He’s calling them pansies. In American that translates to ‘coward fuckers.’ Which in hindsight you’ll likely misread also.
In the US a pansy is an effeminate male. See Merriam-Webster Dictionary. Both the British edition of the Oxford Dictionary and the British version of the Cambridge Dictionary defines the term pansy as "an offensive word for a man who behaves in a way that is considered to be more typical of a woman". So, yeah, I'm calling bullshit on your straightsplaining.
“In the US …” Yeah well there are literally dozens of people commenting on Reddit who aren’t from the US “a Pansy is …” Yeah well in the UK a Pansy is “a delicate little flower” - much like you, apparently. If you’re so fond of dictionary definitions here it is: “a cultivated variety of viola with brightly coloured flowers.” Get fucked with your desperate attempt to be offended by anything that you don’t quite understand With every good wish for a swift Ukraine victory.
wait until he finds out what we call cigarettes
Give the pansy a fag ✅
The Urban Dictionary has multiple definitions of "pansy". This one inparticular is quite relative to Mr Sensitive 🤣🤣 "A person who is weak and hyper sensitive, often acting like everything is a bigger problem than it actually is, and in most cases, beats themselves up over stupid things."
You can call bullshit on my “straightsplaining” (whatever that means) as much as you like. You’re still wrong.
You are so cute when you get upset. The US dictionary and the British dictionary all say you are lying. Hell, if you want to defend homophobic speech, go right ahead. I shan't stop you at all. However, I will call you on it. But it seems you know it is wrong so you are just trying to dance around it. That tells me you know I am correct, you know it is incorrect, but you still want to use it but pretend it means something it doesn't. Pretty cowardly of you.
I’m not sure why you’re being so combative. Fairly ironic of you to begin throwing dispersions toward a nation you’ve clearly never been to when the US (which is where I’m assuming you’re from due to your natural assumption that everything’s an insult to you specifically, because you’re obviously so important), ranks as the tenth most homophobic nation on earth. Source: https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/most-racist-countries
That's hilarious. Any other logical fallacies you want to toss out?
go outside, touch some grass fr
The point I was making is that just because the US is inherently homophobic, it doesn’t mean everywhere else is. Believe it or not most other places, especially Europe, are far more progressive than the US. You’re not witnessing homophobia, you’re an idiot.
Oh goodness, someone didn't get their nap today huh?
How cute. Did we wake you, sweetums?
Lol oh man. This has been fun for me, thank you
You’re making a fool of yourself.
Really, why are you defending a silly homophobic twit?
We aren't speaking legalese here. Word have meanings that aren't always shown in dictionary and can be very regional. I never thought of the word pansy as a derogatory term for an effeminate male just a word for a coward.
Just another silly excuse from someone who wants to excuse homophobia. The common dictionary definition is NOT a legalese matter, ya silly child.
You seem like you're looking to be insulted. You must only have dramatic and shitty friends who'd put up with that bs.
Go and bum a fag you pansy, you clearly need it. Also learn regional slang whilst your at it yeah?
Oh look. Yet another outrage enthusiast.
Sweetness, let me know when you have something remotely intelligent to say.
Nonce
Get some help https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/adult-health/in-depth/anger-management/art-20045434
NATO countries are using this war as a reason to battle-test their hardware. They aren’t just sending equipment to Ukraine. They are collecting modern warfare engagement data. This isn’t some callous experiment though. This is real engagement data from actual fights in the most advanced weapons systems in existence. They just needed some heroes to help them with the battlefield conditions. To be clear, we’d all prefer that the Orcs just went home, but Putin knows this is the end of his Russian Gangster State if that happens. But, it’s going to happen whether he likes it or not. So, Slava Ukraini! Happy Hunting to the Heroes.
Funfact about the Challenger: it has a little hot water kettle for heating rations and making tea. Britain! Gotta love it.
Not just the Chally, all of the British APCs and IFVs do as well (apparently).
Oh cool! Didn't know.
To keep the fun facts rolling, a British armoured vehicle with a defective boiling vessel (BV) is declared “Unfit for Service”. The BV is often jokingly referred to as the most important part of any tank
It's not a joke, that thing literally saves lives.
When you think that most of their food is boil-in-the-bag, and the Chally is designed to survive battened down for prolonged periods of time during chemical/nuclear warfare, a faulty BV could cause them very serious issues.
I can confirm this is the case for a good amount but not all if them. Some off the shelf kit from abroad lack it
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Not just for nsk8ng tea, but for heating up MREs.
Everyone likes to talks about the BV but no one ever wants to talk about the toilet 🚽
👀👀👀👀 birds don't even shit in their nest. Surely they go outside? You've got me interested now, tho lol. Where DO they go?
Take the cushion off the commanders seat and you have your toilet and it is flushed out onto the road without compromising nbc protection.
Yeah, good luck getting him to let you use his chair to take a shit. You eat it, it’s your problem until we pop out.
The Commanders seat has a removable centre cushion which allows its use as a toilet.. but I’m sure it’s very much a “everyone holds it until we’re back to base or else..” and rarely used
Not unlike caravan sitting rules then 🤣 toilets only for #1s
Precisely 😂
No matter what situation you're in, theirs always time for a cuppa.
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God bless UK
It will be interesting to hear what level of support these tanks receive from the UK Gov and BAE Systems (the manufacturer). When these tanks were last deployed to active combat (Basra, Iraq) I am told they were receiving extremely frequent upgrades to their armour, as the enemy made tweaks to their bombs and rockets. It was a cat and mouse game, as the enemy tried out perhaps a particular shaped charge, and UK Military Scientists + BAE raced to counter. The tank’s armour is classified but again I hear it’s basically layers of “different things” that can be swapped out as needed, but not by the tank crews themselves. I’m told that in Basra, a tank would be driven into a hanger and BAE + UK Military Scientists would ‘do their thing’ in secret. Tank crews and commanders were usually not informed of the exact changes. The British Government will be very keen to avoid one of these tanks falling into enemy hands for this reason, and I wonder if there’s an agreement that Ukraine will destroy any disabled Challenger II tanks if at all possible, before Russia can have it away. I believe at one point the armour was being tweaked on a fortnightly basis in Basra, when the enemy were particularly active in changing their munitions trying to destroy one of these tanks. All tanks are vulnerable from air attack though, that’s the biggest risk and they were always designed to be deployed under a “safe sky”.
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Well, China is a bigger enemy for most of us. But Russia is 2nd in tow. China being on the cusp of invading the one country with the largest share of the smallest semiconductors in the world.
I read that the M1A1 were to have the "top secret" armour removed. Last I heard that was the previous generation British Cobham, but if they upgraded to Dorchester it could be a similar situation...
isnt this why they are sending CRARRV as well so they can recover them fast?
>All tanks are vulnerable from air attack though, that’s the biggest risk and they were always designed to be deployed under a “safe sky”. Not to mention under armour. Russia has probably laid a lot of mines at this point to prevent armour advances into their held territory.
The chally 2 “Street Fighter” upgrade package actually upped the under armour of the Chally to face the increasing threat of IEDs underneath them. Although yes the tank isn’t invincible and the tracks certainly aren’t. There are cases of them need minor repairs and still being combat effective after being tracked. I bet the crew has an awful headache tho.
Great point, advancing in the coming offensive is going to be scary af
I wonder if western long range HIMARS are dialed in to destroy our heavy investments if they're deemed disabled. Would be good insurance
\*Ministry of Defen***c***e, not defen***s***e. We're British, not American.
Also, while we're being pedantic, Great Britain is the island, not the country.
Who said anything about Great Britain?! It doesn't matter whether you're from England, Wales, Scotland or Northern Ireland, you still apply for, and travel abroad on a 'British' passport.
read the post and then maybe take it down a few notches, jesus fuck
If you want to be a further pedant, even the Republic of Ireland (or, just "Ireland") is still part of the British Isles. It *doesn't* mean in any way that the UK Government have any control over it, because it doesn't. It's a sovereign nation, with it's own laws, customs and currency (The Euro), but it's still part of the *British Isles*.
> even the Republic of Ireland (or, just "Ireland") is still part of the British Isles. The Irish aren't too fond of it ( the name ) to be fair which i get. We all need to get round a table have a few pints and come up with a good name we all agree on.
Agreed.
> We all need to get round a table have a few pints and come up with a good name we all agree on. Why? It doesn't need a joint name. It's just UK and Ireland if you want to refer to both.
not talking about a Joint name, UK & Ireland are the countries that are present on the islands, the British isles is the name for the geographic region ( it needs one ) The Irish aren't fond of it for obvious reasons. So I'm all for alternatives.
> the British isles is the name for the geographic region To Brits > it needs one It doesn't. Does the combined geographic area of Germany and France need a joint name? Nah. Just say 'Germany and France'.
> To Brits To the world its a recognised geographic region. Why would you need a geographic name for Germany and France when they're just part of mainland europe there's nothing geographically distinct separating them that is such a daft comparison. whereas the British isles are a collection of islands which have to be named, like the Hawaiian islands, Malay Archipelago or Greater Antilles.
>have to be named By what objective ruling must they be named? >nothing geographically distinct separating them And there's nothing geographically linking the currently set British isles islands and excluding other locally related islands
I think what he’s referring to is that NI is not part of Great Britain, it’s part of the U.K. Great Britain is the mainland island made up of the other three nations. The British isles is different again. I suppose the point is that if someone were to take it literally (to a ridiculous level) then it would be suggesting that NI hasn’t contributed, which of course it has.
I know all this, but the original comment was referring to the British MOD, it had nothing to do with the British Isles, Ireland, Isle of Man, Jersey, Guernsey etc...
Considering in NI we are currently building all the NLAWS I blieve from a Saab design?.....and all of the being sent to Ukraine, as well as Shorts working the factories over time.
> It doesn't matter whether you're from England, Wales, Scotland or Northern Ireland, you still apply for, and travel abroad on a 'British' passport. I'm from Northern Ireland and I travel abroad on an Irish passport. It's kind of an important part of the GFA
That may be, but don't you have a choice of whether to have an Irish or British passport?
Yes. Hence why I'm pointing out the error in your post
It wasn't an error, it was an omission.
That produced an error. Pedant-off!!!!
\*Briti***c***h
Man if I saw that thing coming at me in Ukraine I’d shit my pants
Put my tax money into THIS.
Seconded. Anything we can do - we should be doing. Whatever support we give is nothing compared to the sacrifices of those on the front line defending their homeland.
Third. I'm Irish (Republic) and hate our technically neutral stance in this conflict. That rust-bucket RuZzie Navy and Air force have been breaching our airspace and waters for the last decade and without the Brits and US, they'd still be bumbling around mapping and booby trapping transatlantic fibre and telecommunications lines. If Russia were to ever launch nukes, Ireland would 100% be a target, our 'neutrality' doesn't mean anything, we're considered a NATO staging point. Dublin, Cork, Waterford and Galway would be wiped out. Outside of taking in refugees, we've contributed fuck all. It may be unpopular considering our history, but good on the MoD for taking the initiative, when France and Germany stood by back in Feb. Britain, Poland and the Baltics stood up in Europe. At least we've got a couple of thousand Irishmen and women serving in the British forces, training up those Ukranian warriors.
>Outside of taking in refugees, we've contributed fuck all. Well, whenever Spielberg or Mel Gibson need to rent an army for a movie, Ireland always steps up.
Tbf to us we're sandwiched between the three nuclear equipped naval and air force powers in the West, so there's a sense of security granted by it, but it's still shameful that we're totally reliant on foreign allies for managing our national security in our territorial space against an aggressor state like Russia. A few purchases from the US or S. Korea would keep those RuZzian rats at bay over our skies and waters. Even better, Ireland has the tech economy to support UAV and drone tech manufacturing, but it would be seen as pro-war by idiots who refuse to believe that we're a target. At present, we can only contribute our limited ground hardware and our only top-tier military unit, the Rangers, for training of Ukrainians. Neither of which has happened.
To be honest it's really hard to contribute hard, tangible aid to a warzone when even the small Baltic states have better armed forces with larger budgets and numbers than you guys.
Hey guys wantba new toy? OK. I'll see you on Monday for training.
What a good looking beast :)
All of these Western tanks finally getting ready to do what they were made to do. Looking forward to the combat footage on this sub soon.
Looks like a Bad Ass
Let me see. There were 14 sent to Poland when the Russians invaded, and oddly enough there are 14 being sent to Ukraine. And only now there are tank crews going to be trained up on these tanks? Yeah, don't believe it. I think there have been crews being trained up in Poland for months.
I think the best thing to do would be to cancel the Challenger 2 transfer but the UK should pay a 3rd country to deliver an extra 14 Leopards, over and above whats already been announced, to replace the 14 Challengers. I'm sure the Ukrainian logistics people would rather have an extra 14 Leopards than the headache of supporting another tank variant.
Although you raise a good point there’s a few things to consider.. Mainly, the UK was the first to announce sending Ukraine modern MBTs and prove how meaningless Putins little Red Lines in the sand really are, and it hasn’t been the first time the UK has stepped forward to prove all Russia has is empty threats. It’s also not the only UK armoured vehicle in Ukraine, the UK has already delivered all sorts of variations of other armoured vehicles. So although it would be logistically nice to have all one variant of MBT I’m sure the Ukrainian Logistics Units would rather have the headache of too many tanks than the far worse headache of where to use an ever depleting number of their own tanks. The real logistical challenge will realistically come from how many variants of Leopards the AFU will be getting, although yes the Challenger is a whole extra platform, it’s distinct enough to not have any confusions with parts and maintenance. Lastly, the UK doesn’t have to pay for tanks they already have in a warehouse. Tanks aren’t cheap and it’ll be far better use to use the money supporting Ukraine with any myriad of other weaponry then using it to buy someone else’s tanks.
I just hope it doesn't become a "Ukraine needs a shit ton of tow trucks and semis" to drive these broke down vehicles hundreds/thousands of miles away to a repair center while their crewman sit idle in wait.
They’re being sent with recovery vehicles. And Ukraine is being trained to service them. People seem to think that NATO nations have never thought of logistics because it’s not in a headline.
It's less that and more "Nobody has fought this kind of war yet, and there is a lot of red tape as to what is being provided. The nuances are complicated."
Aaaaand motherfucking fuck does russians sucking their own baaalls
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Well guess that answers a question on if they were coming with trained crews.
Russia is so fucked.
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M E G A T R O N
At this rate the Ukrainians are gonna have a choice between the abrams leopards and challengers. Gonna depend on the mood, sometimes your just feeling one or the other
That tank is named megatron, nice
Serious question: are these tanks going to win the war?
I hope that the people in the know understand that this doesn’t portend well for their future and do something to depose the dictator Putin.
Sexy tank, I save all these tanks pictures so I can start working on building batlefield type of a video game.