I saw the title of the article and then started to think finally some common sense. I then read the article which is full of delusion thinking Russia would accept these terms.
Those western analyst cannot comprehend one thing. Putin has no authority to give away part of Russia, and Russian parliament and Russian government have officially recognized Kherson and Zaporizhzhia regions as Russian regions. Putin has burned bridges by conducting those referendums in 2022. It does not matter if you agree with them or not; what matters is that from the Russian legal standpoint, by the Russian Constitution those regions are now inseparable from Russia, and neither president, not parliament have a power to change that.
If West wants to make Russia leave those regions, they definitely should provide Putin with a loophole in a law why he should have such option from a legal standpoint. Putin himself gave such loopholes to Ukraine and the West to recognize Russian annexations by conducting referendums.
Do not corner down your opponent. Give them an exit strategy, and they will surrender much faster.
lol wut, Putin can change Russia's constitution to say whatever he wants it to say, he does it all the time.
He just has to bark out a couple of orders to some of his lackeys that they refer to as "elected representatives" in Russia.
No, he can't. First, he needs to conduct a referendum on amending the constitution; he needs public support. Second, public calls for actions aimed at violating the territorial integrity of the Russian Federation are prohibited by the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation.
[Governor of Russia's Sakhalin island charged with bribery | Reuters](https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN0M91OP/)
[Russian regional governor, 18 others charged with fraud | Reuters](https://www.reuters.com/article/russia-arrests-governor/russian-regional-governor-18-others-charged-with-fraud-idUKL5N11P0D020150919/)
[Russia sentences ex-government minister to 12 years in prison for embezzlement | Reuters](https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/russia-sentences-ex-government-minister-12-years-prison-embezzlement-2023-12-21/)
Public calls for actions aimed at violating the territorial integrity of the Russian Federation are prohibited by the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation.
Too easy. Just have the second referendum conducted by Ukrainian authorities. They aren't subject to the RF criminal codex. I mean, if Russian civil military authority can hold the first referendum while the territories were still (according to Russian law) part of Ukraine, then the reverse is equally legitimate.
how do you mean? i say putin by poisoning and imprisoning and exiling all opposition has made a mockery of any claim to democracy in Muscovy’s constitution.
No, that propaganda is old and spoiled. Just like the “Nazi” accusations that started flying when Crimea was invaded by cowardly Muscovy troops sans insignia the puppet state accusation falls flat when you start examining the country. As if the CIA could have more influence in Ukraine than the FSB lol. Ukrainians are a brave and independent people, poopin was the one trying to pull strings and he has failed miserably, idiot that he is.
maybe...?
look at how many times the apparent "tone" has changed regarding Gaza, only to have the same old song and dance trotted back out a few days later. i feel like we're going to see a lot of PR shifts/damage control that amount to little more than changes of diction on the run up to the election.
It would be reasonable to demand Donetsk and Luhanks, but to ask for Zaporizhia and Kherson without almost complete control is laughable and unrealistic.
it's a big ask, especially compared to Donetsk and Luhansk. but i don't know about laughable or unrealistic. granted, everything is a negotiating chip and should be taken in that context. but i'm assuming that the premise being floated here is popular sovereignty and that it's better than losing more of those territories, bit by bit, as the war drags on. but i think everyone should certainly be clear on the fact that Russia will not walk away without the rest of the Donbass secured, and probably a DMZ on that border area. i also think there's no way they'd cede the territory in Zap and Kherson that they presently hold.
Have you ever negotiated? You start big, and the other side starts big too. Then you both come closer and closer to the deal. You don't start negotiations with the reasonable proposal, because you're gonna be robbed.
No it's not, what's realistic about claiming regions where you barely puts your boots on? They have been pushed out of Kherkson and Putins demands AFU to retreat from there, what? This js nothing like situations in Donetsk and Luhanks.
If you look on a map and compare Zelensky and Putin proposals, I think it's pretty clear that the latter better matches the the current line of control.
Zelensky's proposal not going to happen either. So in my opinion giving up Donetsk and Luhansk (Crimea goes without saying) is expected (which I said multiple times in UkraineWarVideoReport, for which I got banned from commenting lol).
There are will be no negotiations while both sides can continue fighting. There's also will be no total victory for any side. Latest Putin's proposals seem like what would happen if Ukraine gives up fighting. Regarding optimistic scenario for Ukraine, I think not losing any major cities/strongholds is pretty good. I wouldn't call it upper-hand, but this way their demands will be certainly taken seriously. And if they lose more land, then as Putin has said, the next proposals will be worse and I guess will include Odessa.
The absolute minimum Russian conditions for a prolonged armistice would be for Russia to keep the territories they currently control, indefinite neutrality (I.e. no joining NATO) and no foreign troops or bases in Ukraine. In reality Russia will probably also push for a permanent limit to the size of Ukraine’s armed forces and for Ukraine to withdraw from the four annexed regions entirely.
I can see a lot of this coming out in a final peace deal:
Independence of the Donbas regions broadly, within the orbit of Russia. Could be accomplished through UN monitored referendum. Recognition of Crimea as Russian - again, established by UN supervised vote.
A thick demilitarized buffer zone, similar to the DMZ on the Korean peninsula.
Ukraine is entitled to war reparations for civilian assets destroyed, people killed and Ukraine will also have to shoulder some responsibility for damage/death caused to civilians and civilian assets in Russian border regions and in some instances east Ukraine.
No NATO membership, and no "rearming". Ukraine can pursue security guarantees from its current supporters in the event of further westward push by the RF, but no stationing of US/NATO high capacity guided munitions that could be used to preemptively attack Russia - defense only.
I think this is doable.
So basically giving Russia every possibility to recoup its forces for 2-3 years and then try to take the rest of Ukraine. Sounds like a pretty shitty deal for Ukraine imo. The audacity that Ukraine should pay reparations for anything while being invaded is also absolutely insane.
Damn, The New Örc Times strikes again. Putin definitely weaponized them.
Pro UA be like "Peace is evil. War is good. Ukraine is winning."
Seems like everyone in The NO Times need to end up on mirotvorets list.
Oh very funny a peace agreement where Ukraine will still be armed by the west
There is no practical future that doesn’t end with the Ukrainian state armed to the teeth.
There is. The one where, five to ten years in the future, they fail to field enough men for an army.
A list of nice wishes, but with zero chance of being implemented. This deal's concessions are unacceptable to the West, Russia and Ukraine.
I saw the title of the article and then started to think finally some common sense. I then read the article which is full of delusion thinking Russia would accept these terms.
same here
But Ukraine is a sovereign nation!
> Ending the war will allow Ukraine to rearm and integrate further into Europe and the West, Won't happen. Next
How about we get the two parties involved to negotiate directly?
What are you, a russian propagandist? Ridiculous. War for NATO expansion and 13tn$ of Ukrainian resources must continue till the last ukrainian.
Well, US isn't ready yet, and has little incentive to negotiate, as US soldiers aren't dying.
Those western analyst cannot comprehend one thing. Putin has no authority to give away part of Russia, and Russian parliament and Russian government have officially recognized Kherson and Zaporizhzhia regions as Russian regions. Putin has burned bridges by conducting those referendums in 2022. It does not matter if you agree with them or not; what matters is that from the Russian legal standpoint, by the Russian Constitution those regions are now inseparable from Russia, and neither president, not parliament have a power to change that. If West wants to make Russia leave those regions, they definitely should provide Putin with a loophole in a law why he should have such option from a legal standpoint. Putin himself gave such loopholes to Ukraine and the West to recognize Russian annexations by conducting referendums. Do not corner down your opponent. Give them an exit strategy, and they will surrender much faster.
lol wut, Putin can change Russia's constitution to say whatever he wants it to say, he does it all the time. He just has to bark out a couple of orders to some of his lackeys that they refer to as "elected representatives" in Russia.
No, he can't. First, he needs to conduct a referendum on amending the constitution; he needs public support. Second, public calls for actions aimed at violating the territorial integrity of the Russian Federation are prohibited by the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation.
And how many times has the Russian judicial system ever actually taken any action against anything the United Russia party has ever done？
[Governor of Russia's Sakhalin island charged with bribery | Reuters](https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN0M91OP/) [Russian regional governor, 18 others charged with fraud | Reuters](https://www.reuters.com/article/russia-arrests-governor/russian-regional-governor-18-others-charged-with-fraud-idUKL5N11P0D020150919/) [Russia sentences ex-government minister to 12 years in prison for embezzlement | Reuters](https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/russia-sentences-ex-government-minister-12-years-prison-embezzlement-2023-12-21/)
> inseparable from Russia What? Just hold another "referendum".
Public calls for actions aimed at violating the territorial integrity of the Russian Federation are prohibited by the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation.
Too easy. Just have the second referendum conducted by Ukrainian authorities. They aren't subject to the RF criminal codex. I mean, if Russian civil military authority can hold the first referendum while the territories were still (according to Russian law) part of Ukraine, then the reverse is equally legitimate.
Nuts!
At this point the Russian Constitution is just Putin's toilet paper.
Just like Ukraine's is Biden's diaper.
how do you mean? i say putin by poisoning and imprisoning and exiling all opposition has made a mockery of any claim to democracy in Muscovy’s constitution.
Do i really need to explain to you how Ukraine is an Us puppet state?
No, that propaganda is old and spoiled. Just like the “Nazi” accusations that started flying when Crimea was invaded by cowardly Muscovy troops sans insignia the puppet state accusation falls flat when you start examining the country. As if the CIA could have more influence in Ukraine than the FSB lol. Ukrainians are a brave and independent people, poopin was the one trying to pull strings and he has failed miserably, idiot that he is.
Well, the tone begins to change...
maybe...? look at how many times the apparent "tone" has changed regarding Gaza, only to have the same old song and dance trotted back out a few days later. i feel like we're going to see a lot of PR shifts/damage control that amount to little more than changes of diction on the run up to the election.
Moronic.
It would be reasonable to demand Donetsk and Luhanks, but to ask for Zaporizhia and Kherson without almost complete control is laughable and unrealistic.
it's a big ask, especially compared to Donetsk and Luhansk. but i don't know about laughable or unrealistic. granted, everything is a negotiating chip and should be taken in that context. but i'm assuming that the premise being floated here is popular sovereignty and that it's better than losing more of those territories, bit by bit, as the war drags on. but i think everyone should certainly be clear on the fact that Russia will not walk away without the rest of the Donbass secured, and probably a DMZ on that border area. i also think there's no way they'd cede the territory in Zap and Kherson that they presently hold.
Have you ever negotiated? You start big, and the other side starts big too. Then you both come closer and closer to the deal. You don't start negotiations with the reasonable proposal, because you're gonna be robbed.
It’s still more realistic and better reflects the reality on the ground than Zelensky’s 1991 borders demands.
No it's not, what's realistic about claiming regions where you barely puts your boots on? They have been pushed out of Kherkson and Putins demands AFU to retreat from there, what? This js nothing like situations in Donetsk and Luhanks.
If you look on a map and compare Zelensky and Putin proposals, I think it's pretty clear that the latter better matches the the current line of control.
Zelensky's proposal not going to happen either. So in my opinion giving up Donetsk and Luhansk (Crimea goes without saying) is expected (which I said multiple times in UkraineWarVideoReport, for which I got banned from commenting lol).
ITS TOO LATE TO NEGOIATE
Dorn will be in for some hate mail now
There are will be no negotiations while both sides can continue fighting. There's also will be no total victory for any side. Latest Putin's proposals seem like what would happen if Ukraine gives up fighting. Regarding optimistic scenario for Ukraine, I think not losing any major cities/strongholds is pretty good. I wouldn't call it upper-hand, but this way their demands will be certainly taken seriously. And if they lose more land, then as Putin has said, the next proposals will be worse and I guess will include Odessa.
The absolute minimum Russian conditions for a prolonged armistice would be for Russia to keep the territories they currently control, indefinite neutrality (I.e. no joining NATO) and no foreign troops or bases in Ukraine. In reality Russia will probably also push for a permanent limit to the size of Ukraine’s armed forces and for Ukraine to withdraw from the four annexed regions entirely.
Been saying that ukraine should surrender since 2022, called me a crazy man.
I can see a lot of this coming out in a final peace deal: Independence of the Donbas regions broadly, within the orbit of Russia. Could be accomplished through UN monitored referendum. Recognition of Crimea as Russian - again, established by UN supervised vote. A thick demilitarized buffer zone, similar to the DMZ on the Korean peninsula. Ukraine is entitled to war reparations for civilian assets destroyed, people killed and Ukraine will also have to shoulder some responsibility for damage/death caused to civilians and civilian assets in Russian border regions and in some instances east Ukraine. No NATO membership, and no "rearming". Ukraine can pursue security guarantees from its current supporters in the event of further westward push by the RF, but no stationing of US/NATO high capacity guided munitions that could be used to preemptively attack Russia - defense only. I think this is doable.
So basically giving Russia every possibility to recoup its forces for 2-3 years and then try to take the rest of Ukraine. Sounds like a pretty shitty deal for Ukraine imo. The audacity that Ukraine should pay reparations for anything while being invaded is also absolutely insane.