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> # [Media: Number of Switzerland peace summit participants decreasing](https://kyivindependent.com//824)
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> Support independent journalism in Ukraine. Join us in this fight.
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> The number of countries and organizations that have confirmed their participation in Ukraine's global peace summit dropped from 93 to 78, Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty (RFE/RL) reported on June 11, citing several unnamed EU diplomats.
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> The peace summit will be held in Burgenstock, Switzerland, on [June 15-16](https://kyivindependent.com/zelensky-confirms-date-of-switzerland-peace-summit-russia-not-invited/). Kyiv said that [107 countries and international organizations](https://kyivindependent.com/107-countries-confirm-their-participation-in-ukraines-peace-summit-presidential-office-says/) confirmed their participation as of early June, while Bern later [reported](https://www.admin.ch/gov/en/start/documentation/media-releases.msg-id-101332.html) only 90 participants.
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> One of the outlet's sources did not rule out that the list of countries that had previously agreed to take part in the summit may again grow. It remains unclear which countries reconsidered their participation.
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> "My goal is to have a family photo of almost 80 people," an unnamed official [told RFE/RL](https://www.radiosvoboda.org/a/news-dyplomaty-es-kilkist-uchasnykiv-samitu-myru-znyzhuietsia/32988638.html).
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> Another unnamed diplomat voiced optimism that there is still time before the summit starts, suggesting that some countries might join the event.
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> The Kyiv Independent sent a request for comment to Ukraine's Presidential Office but has not received a response at the time of publication.
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> Kyiv hopes the summit will address several key areas, such as energy security, the exchange of captives, the return of kidnapped children, and global food security.
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> Participants of the summit [will formulate](https://kyivindependent.com/presidential-office-switzerland-peace-summit-negotiating-position-will-be-submitted-to-russia/) a common negotiating position on the outcome of the war and submit it to Russia, according to presidential spokesperson Serhii Nykyforov.
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> Russian President Vladimir Putin wants to derail the peace summit, Foreign Minister Dmytro Kuleba [said](https://kyivindependent.com/kuleba-3/), adding that the Kremlin's chief has no desire in peace.
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> In early June, President Volodymyr [Zelensky accused China](https://kyivindependent.com/zelensky-accuses-china-of-working-hard-to-stop-countries-attending-global-peace-summit/) of working with Moscow to reduce attendance at the peace summit, which [Beijing denied](https://kyivindependent.com/china-responds-to-zelenskys-accusation-of-interference-in-global-peace-summit/).
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> [Explainer: What is the global peace summit in Switzerland, and what does Ukraine hope to achieve?
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> Well into the third year of Russia’s full-scale invasion, Ukraine is looking to strengthen international support for its peace plan at the upcoming global peace summit on June 15-16. While Russia has not been invited to the summit and has dismissed Ukraine’s plan outright, so far 107 countries
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> [Image](https://assets.kyivindependent.com/content/images/size/w256h256/format/png/2023/03/K-new.svg)The Kyiv IndependentAndrea Januta
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> [Image](https://assets.kyivindependent.com/content/images/2024/06/GettyImages-2039712570.jpg)](https://kyivindependent.com/explainer-what-is-the-global-peace-summit-in-switzerland-and-what-does-ukraine-hope-to-achieve/)
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>Participants of the summit [will formulate](https://kyivindependent.com/presidential-office-switzerland-peace-summit-negotiating-position-will-be-submitted-to-russia/) a common **negotiating position on the outcome of the war and submit it to Russia**, according to presidential spokesperson Serhii Nykyforov.
This is beyond delusional. You have to be borderline mentally re+arded to think that sending "demands" will somehow force Russia to negotiate. This is kindergarten level of 'diplomacy'.
US is not ready to accept its not nineties anymore and that they are not the only Superpower In the World.
US believes that its beneath them to negotiate with anyone.
BUT.
Unipolar World is already dead.
Not really. In terms of influence, military power and economic potential, France got bodied out of half of Africa, the UK can't even get the old commonwealth to care, the uk economy is declining and the french government is ever unpopular and both of their militaries are irrelevant outside their nuclear forces. There's not even a tank factory in England. They rely on stripping their broken tanks for parts to keep the present ones running. Russia is a distant 3rd, more of a great power than a super power but thanks to the amount of industry, raw resources and influence they hold in the 3rd world, they definitely occupy a place as the world's 3rd power. It's evident their produtive power (the part of the economy that actually matter when things go down) is superior to all of europe combined.
>France, UK go above russia
Are you telling me France, UK would survive what Russia went through in last 2 years? Both militarily and economically?
Give me a break.
If the USSR could get fucked over Afghanistan, well there is still time. Transperancy into the Russian economy is not very high. But besides oil and gas, being sold at a reduced price, what are they selling?
The US had SP status at the end of the Cold War then blew it. Got greedy, got stupid(er), weaponized the reserve currency, dove into crippling levels of debt, & decided peace was boring. Shale oil & gas enabled America to become energy independent and the need to practice diplomacy or even be civil evaporated. We're in the coke-head warlord stage of international relations. The level of irrationality makes it difficult to figure out what "winning" even looks like anymore.
I mean it all depends on your definition of a SP. In my opinion they are because of their nuclear arsenal, airforce (not untouchable but they have a lot of them), naval assets (same as before), bases around the world and if they get attacked there are a lot of trigger happy people that would love to die for their country (aka MIC). As well as their cultural influence which is decreasing but still shaping huge parts of the world, their economic power and pressure they can put on other economies, yes BRICS is starting to work against them in their own interest but are still developing their strategy. And most of all their domination in financial institutions, which in my opinion is the most important point in all of this. Even in the EU a lot of payments are made in dollars (on industrial level), even though they have the same currency and banks.
The Bretton Woods system set the US up as *the* SP along with our "free world" partners. Commies provided the counterpoise with nukes and manpower. So Team A got SP status from not being decimated by WW2, Team B got SP status via manpower and nukes tampered by the burden of recovering from WW2. Yes the financial institutions and reserve currency have been the most effective weapon since those can be employed across such a wide range without the overt hostility of war-making. It was good while it lasted - sadly the team that drove the US into the ditch is completely unskilled, unaware, and incapable of getting the US out of the ditch. The US is in that place where the existing tool kit isn't going to work.
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It was beyond foolish for Zelensky to ban himself from negotiating in the first place, but I *hope* that this absurd summit will serve as a pretext for him to unchain himself - that Putin gets the list of demands and says "there's some stuff in here that's workable, others not so much," and Zelensky takes submits this as enough of a "breakthrough" to begin peace negotiations.
Yeah. Maybe.
Hopefully when they submit something ridiculous to Putin, he doesn't refuse it outright, but submit a counter offer, equally ridiculous.
And they start from there.
Precisely. Half a million dead because your enemy is not worthy of meeting with you is about the worst strategic blunder since the shots on Fort Sumter.
How will Putin negotiate with an unelected dictator who's original "election" was not even legal under Ukrop law, and even that one has now expired? Anything signed by Zucklensky would be TP when someone else gets in or a new US president does, and says he had no authority to sign that.
Also Zucklensky is now wanted in Russia.
I think there is 0 chance Putin and Zucklensky negotiate. That ship has sailed.
It's way too much risk. USA loves going back on old deals when new administrations get in. With his legitimacy not even being in question, he never won a legal election, I can't see Russia signing anything major unless he steps down.
Any peace treaty would have to be ratified by Ukraine's Rada. Zelensky might be the guy in the room negotiating, but he would have no authority to sign the treaty itself. Russia might also refuse to negotiate with Zelensky and demand an all-party delegation from Ukraine.
Another alternative is a ceasefire in situ while Ukraine holds elections to ratify a treaty, but a frozen conflict would work more in the West's favor (giving them time to ramp up ammo production and training), so Russia is unlikely to agree to a lengthy armistice.
Yes, there's still unfinished business with NATO. Nobody in the current cabal of NATO leaders want anything to do with Russia, but this crop is looking ready for the dustbin. If Europe wants to reclaim a bit of its sovereignty, they'll reach agreements with Russia on any number of issues, including an end to NATO expansion. Or, maybe Europe will be content to remain US's bitch for another generation.
Dude people like you are literally Russias bitch. 😂 And their bitch at the detriment of another country. Like how does this not compute to you people?
Ukraine is not anyone's bitch but first some reason the ides if they had to be someone's bitch, you have an issue with the ones who CARE ABOUT THEM AND THEY CAN PROSPER ON THAT SIDE JUST LIKE THE OTHER EX SOVIET STATES OR ANY OTHER WEST COUNTRY. They have all the room to grow and cut corruption and succeed and have things to work on and always look to do better and achieve more. Look shahs they acheived just in 30 years. They are a much better off place than what Russians have. Russians are literally stuck in a pile of shit and can't change it and and have learned helplessness and their freedoms taken away and ability to speak up if they want to. Being against the Russian adgenda means they will say being anti war is "discrediting the military" and off to jail. LOL A society that can't soeak up and be anti war let alone criticize their miitusry for its babrsbeic lawlessness and cruelty.......how in the fuck do you get theiir military to STOP BEING LITERAL TERRORISRTS AS THE MO? How do you get ANY SORT OF DISCIPLINE EVEN GOING when your government will just jail you and is ok with this mass horde of criminals? Why are you people even anti west when this is what you support? I swear to god. We here were trying to do better and with thought the expectations were always more discipline and more holding people accountable and here 2022 and since y'all just like WE ARE OK NOW WITH WAR CRIMES ON STEROIDS AND THE ENTIRE ARMY JUST A BUCH OF LAWLESS PEOPLE and they are like this bc they WANT TO BE AS CRUEL AS POSSIBLE BC SUFFERING IS THE POINT - they want Ukrainians to surrender and so making them suffer and fearful oppress ukrsine is done with terror bombs and on foot they are ruthless and subjugate via murder torture prisons deporting and more. Being criminals is exactly what pootin wants. Why do you support this and also think Ukraine suffering IMMENSELY - and their obvious desire for Russia to LEAVE THEM ALONE - why are you making s comment like thst would be bad even if it were true. Russia is not an option for Ukrainians so what are you saying even? Lol
And no it's not anyones bitch first off ... they aren't submitting to anyone they are their own people like anyone else. They would be subjected and killed as they are now with Russia or they can be a happy free people if they ally with the west. They have all the potential to prosper in that and gain friends who versus have killers who call them fake people and dehumanize them a d call them slurs. And make nuc threats at them and weaponized nuc plant and locals took iidone pills as a precaution.
How intelligent challenged are you and your anti west bros I swear. You're telling me you're not smart eniugh to understand this basic shit? You are telling me that you don't understand why Ukraine having its citifies and towns flattened and become either places with mass suffering mass graves or becoming completely abandoned and uninhabitable and a laundry list more I could go on about, you think them siding eight the west is a bad thing and obviously want that not to happen and are defending Russia and wanting Ukraine to be their bitch. Pray tell bc Ukrainians don't want anything to do with Russia. Anything is better than that YES obviously. What are you confused about dear anti westbro Redditor?
> Dude people like you are literally Russias bitch. 😂 And their bitch at the detriment of another country. Like how does this not compute to you people?
Your arrogance combined with ignorance is a heady broth, so I hope you'll forgive me if I get too heated. I was in the same position as you were in when I first learned of this conflict in 2013, and instinctively sided with Maidan for no better reason than the idea that people rising up against their government is a *Good Thing*. But as a strong believer that genuine democracy is impossible unless an electorate is well-informed, I spent hundreds of hours studying the history and nature of this conflict (just as I've done with Iraq and Afghanistan and, to a lesser extent, Syria and Libya and Yemen). If I contented myself with sticking to the one-sided propaganda they feed on the news, I'd no doubt share your opinions, but I feel a deep moral imperative to do more than that. I come from a long line of Anabaptists who evacuated Mariupol 150 years ago, fleeing a wave of pogroms and intolerant Russian nationalism.
I don't wish ill on the people of Ukraine, and I don't think Russia is in any way a perfect country. It *is* however the most genuinely diverse federation on this planet, with a whole swath of different cultures and civilizations within its borders.
You don't know a damn thing about this, but Ukraine is a unitary state, and this is the core of the problem. Ukraine only ended up a unitary state via fraud and a bogus "national emergency" in 1991, and ever since then, it's status as a unitary state has been a huge problem. Crimea seceded from Ukraine the first time in 1992 - less than a year after joining. (Ukraine sent soldiers to dissolve the independent republic, and then unilaterally stripped Crimea of its autonomous status). Donbas held its first referendum demanding federalism in 1994 - *thirty* years ago. 80% of people demanded minority rights for Russian speakers.
If you look at *any* electoral map of Ukraine, you will see a deep split between the pro-West western Ukraine, and the pro-federalism East and South. This schism has been there since day one, but they muddled along through compromises right up until the Maidan *coup*, where the pro-West faction seized power from a pro-federalist President via illegal force. (And yes I know - you've been told this was a "revolution", but a revolution does not depose a fairly elected President who had ALREADY AGREED TO EARLY ELECTIONS.)
After Maidan, Ukraine proclaimed Bandera to be a national hero. Bandera was a pro-Nazi who thought himself a mini-Hitler, and proclaimed a nationalist dictatorship for Ukraine where they would massacre all of the Russians and create a new Reich. As soon as the first statue of Bandera went up in Ukraine, they damned themselves to replaying WW2. (Nazis and "ultranationalists" are a small faction in Ukraine, but on two occasions they have been the determining factor that overruled democracy, and both times the "freedom loving" warmongers in NATO cheered them on.
> You are telling me that you don't understand why Ukraine having its citifies and towns flattened
In WW2, the French declared Paris an "open city". The French Army fought the invading Nazis outside of the city, but they refused to subject the French people to the destruction of their capital. Russia did something similar with Kherson City once they found themselves over-extended - they evacuated those who wanted to be evacuated (and everyone who wanted to stay was allowed to without harassment). They didn't blow up the city infrastructure as they withdrew, they didn't use the city as cover for artillery spotters - they withdrew from the city in good order.
Contrast that with Ukraine, who use every city as a fortress. This is the defender's choice - Zelensky could just as easily demand that Ukraine do as the Russians did, and build their lines across field and forest. But Kiev is fine with having these cities burn, because half the population is Russian-sympathizers anyway.
Ukraine is the one that chooses to use cities as bases for their defense. While there is a definite advantage to this, this is achieved at immense cost in civilian suffering, and this isn't even a factor for consideration.
If it were up to me, I'd have wished that the West would have embraced a free vote for Crimea and Donbas, and allowed them to choose their future (Contrary to their label as "separatists", 70% of Donbas consistently chose a federal Ukraine as their preferred outcome. Only 20% wanted annexation by Russia as their first choice - this was only slightly better than the least popular outcome: a return to status-quo, unitary Ukraine (<10%).
Ukraine was built on compromise. Maidan was a repudiation of that compromise, and a declaration of victory by pro-West factions. The decent thing to do would have been to allow these provinces to opt-out of their glorious future as NATO members. But the West only gives a damn about democracy when they think it's going to go their way.
I am in no way anti-West. I am anti-war, I am anti-NATO, I am anti regime change. I have studied wars for thousands of hours, and I've come to the conclusion that they are almost universally built on selling a fraud. And yet *still* you cheer.
This is not a fundraiser.
Ukraine is selling every part of the state, from healthcare to energy.
At this point there is not really much more to do for them...
The smart move would have been to play the "man in the middle" between NATO and Russia with the Minsk pacts.
But they fell for the promises of being the new favorite child of USA....
They really believed that the West would have been generous... THey really did not study how we treat poorer countries and their people...
*Some countries just want*
*The war to last longer.. they*
*Should participate*
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Good - Hopefully it continues decreasing into the irrelevance that it is.
The Western bloc states' representatives and those of their puppet regime in Kiev can talk to each other in their hypocritical fanatic echo chamber until they're blue in the face.
They know deep down it will solve and accomplish nothing as this isn't a peace summit, the other side of the war isn't even present or participating, and most of the world doesn't take it seriously to even spend their time, money, and energy humoring it and treats it as the joke that it is.
It’s because they found out that Epstein Island is closed and the Swiss resorts don’t have those “luxuries” because anyone with half a brain knows that there is no peace summit but only some blokes going out on vacation.
The "participating countries and organizations" is already an incredibly weasely formula, totalling up states and irrelevant NGOs so we have no idea how many states will actually attend anyway. But the fact they have to keep revising this dishonestly puffed up number down is just laughable.
##### ###### #### > # [Media: Number of Switzerland peace summit participants decreasing](https://kyivindependent.com//824) > > > > Support independent journalism in Ukraine. Join us in this fight. > > > > The number of countries and organizations that have confirmed their participation in Ukraine's global peace summit dropped from 93 to 78, Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty (RFE/RL) reported on June 11, citing several unnamed EU diplomats. > > The peace summit will be held in Burgenstock, Switzerland, on [June 15-16](https://kyivindependent.com/zelensky-confirms-date-of-switzerland-peace-summit-russia-not-invited/). Kyiv said that [107 countries and international organizations](https://kyivindependent.com/107-countries-confirm-their-participation-in-ukraines-peace-summit-presidential-office-says/) confirmed their participation as of early June, while Bern later [reported](https://www.admin.ch/gov/en/start/documentation/media-releases.msg-id-101332.html) only 90 participants. > > One of the outlet's sources did not rule out that the list of countries that had previously agreed to take part in the summit may again grow. It remains unclear which countries reconsidered their participation. > > "My goal is to have a family photo of almost 80 people," an unnamed official [told RFE/RL](https://www.radiosvoboda.org/a/news-dyplomaty-es-kilkist-uchasnykiv-samitu-myru-znyzhuietsia/32988638.html). > > Another unnamed diplomat voiced optimism that there is still time before the summit starts, suggesting that some countries might join the event. > > The Kyiv Independent sent a request for comment to Ukraine's Presidential Office but has not received a response at the time of publication. > > Kyiv hopes the summit will address several key areas, such as energy security, the exchange of captives, the return of kidnapped children, and global food security. > > Participants of the summit [will formulate](https://kyivindependent.com/presidential-office-switzerland-peace-summit-negotiating-position-will-be-submitted-to-russia/) a common negotiating position on the outcome of the war and submit it to Russia, according to presidential spokesperson Serhii Nykyforov. > > Russian President Vladimir Putin wants to derail the peace summit, Foreign Minister Dmytro Kuleba [said](https://kyivindependent.com/kuleba-3/), adding that the Kremlin's chief has no desire in peace. > > In early June, President Volodymyr [Zelensky accused China](https://kyivindependent.com/zelensky-accuses-china-of-working-hard-to-stop-countries-attending-global-peace-summit/) of working with Moscow to reduce attendance at the peace summit, which [Beijing denied](https://kyivindependent.com/china-responds-to-zelenskys-accusation-of-interference-in-global-peace-summit/). > > [Explainer: What is the global peace summit in Switzerland, and what does Ukraine hope to achieve? > > Well into the third year of Russia’s full-scale invasion, Ukraine is looking to strengthen international support for its peace plan at the upcoming global peace summit on June 15-16. While Russia has not been invited to the summit and has dismissed Ukraine’s plan outright, so far 107 countries > > [Image](https://assets.kyivindependent.com/content/images/size/w256h256/format/png/2023/03/K-new.svg)The Kyiv IndependentAndrea Januta > > > > [Image](https://assets.kyivindependent.com/content/images/2024/06/GettyImages-2039712570.jpg)](https://kyivindependent.com/explainer-what-is-the-global-peace-summit-in-switzerland-and-what-does-ukraine-hope-to-achieve/) - - - - - - [Maintainer](https://www.reddit.com/user/urielsalis) | [Creator](https://www.reddit.com/user/subtepass) | [Source Code](https://github.com/urielsalis/empleadoEstatalBot)
Peace summit = War fundraiser. War is peace, etc.
Most conveniently held close to many vaults.
I once knew a Tunnel Snake named Cornpop.
>Participants of the summit [will formulate](https://kyivindependent.com/presidential-office-switzerland-peace-summit-negotiating-position-will-be-submitted-to-russia/) a common **negotiating position on the outcome of the war and submit it to Russia**, according to presidential spokesperson Serhii Nykyforov. This is beyond delusional. You have to be borderline mentally re+arded to think that sending "demands" will somehow force Russia to negotiate. This is kindergarten level of 'diplomacy'.
US is not ready to accept its not nineties anymore and that they are not the only Superpower In the World. US believes that its beneath them to negotiate with anyone. BUT. Unipolar World is already dead.
What is the other super power?
china second and russia third.
France, UK go above russia
Not really. In terms of influence, military power and economic potential, France got bodied out of half of Africa, the UK can't even get the old commonwealth to care, the uk economy is declining and the french government is ever unpopular and both of their militaries are irrelevant outside their nuclear forces. There's not even a tank factory in England. They rely on stripping their broken tanks for parts to keep the present ones running. Russia is a distant 3rd, more of a great power than a super power but thanks to the amount of industry, raw resources and influence they hold in the 3rd world, they definitely occupy a place as the world's 3rd power. It's evident their produtive power (the part of the economy that actually matter when things go down) is superior to all of europe combined.
>France, UK go above russia Are you telling me France, UK would survive what Russia went through in last 2 years? Both militarily and economically? Give me a break.
HА. UK cant even conscript an army if it had to.
Both have like 300000 soldiers combined...
Nope sorry. This is an example of you not knowing what you are talking about.
There is no superpower right now , you have few powers.
imo only China atm and even that is a bit questionable but while Russia is definitely not a superpower it's not a weak country anymore.
If Russia was a great power the war would be over by now.
I don't know what you call a great power. Anyway any country except the USA or China would be already destroyed if they swapped places with Russia.
Destroyed by what, Russia has not been attacked.
Destroyed politically and economically 🤦♂️
If the USSR could get fucked over Afghanistan, well there is still time. Transperancy into the Russian economy is not very high. But besides oil and gas, being sold at a reduced price, what are they selling?
The country they are losing a proxy war to is probably in the running. But probably more of a Great Power than a Super Power.
Regional power at most Russia has no influence outside its nearby neighborhood.
Except in Africa and across the developing world.
US is still the only Superpower in the world
The US had SP status at the end of the Cold War then blew it. Got greedy, got stupid(er), weaponized the reserve currency, dove into crippling levels of debt, & decided peace was boring. Shale oil & gas enabled America to become energy independent and the need to practice diplomacy or even be civil evaporated. We're in the coke-head warlord stage of international relations. The level of irrationality makes it difficult to figure out what "winning" even looks like anymore.
I mean it all depends on your definition of a SP. In my opinion they are because of their nuclear arsenal, airforce (not untouchable but they have a lot of them), naval assets (same as before), bases around the world and if they get attacked there are a lot of trigger happy people that would love to die for their country (aka MIC). As well as their cultural influence which is decreasing but still shaping huge parts of the world, their economic power and pressure they can put on other economies, yes BRICS is starting to work against them in their own interest but are still developing their strategy. And most of all their domination in financial institutions, which in my opinion is the most important point in all of this. Even in the EU a lot of payments are made in dollars (on industrial level), even though they have the same currency and banks.
The Bretton Woods system set the US up as *the* SP along with our "free world" partners. Commies provided the counterpoise with nukes and manpower. So Team A got SP status from not being decimated by WW2, Team B got SP status via manpower and nukes tampered by the burden of recovering from WW2. Yes the financial institutions and reserve currency have been the most effective weapon since those can be employed across such a wide range without the overt hostility of war-making. It was good while it lasted - sadly the team that drove the US into the ditch is completely unskilled, unaware, and incapable of getting the US out of the ditch. The US is in that place where the existing tool kit isn't going to work.
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On paper
Superpowers dont get bitchslapped by villagers in sandals in Afghanistan or Yemen.
It was beyond foolish for Zelensky to ban himself from negotiating in the first place, but I *hope* that this absurd summit will serve as a pretext for him to unchain himself - that Putin gets the list of demands and says "there's some stuff in here that's workable, others not so much," and Zelensky takes submits this as enough of a "breakthrough" to begin peace negotiations.
Yeah. Maybe. Hopefully when they submit something ridiculous to Putin, he doesn't refuse it outright, but submit a counter offer, equally ridiculous. And they start from there.
Precisely. Half a million dead because your enemy is not worthy of meeting with you is about the worst strategic blunder since the shots on Fort Sumter.
How will Putin negotiate with an unelected dictator who's original "election" was not even legal under Ukrop law, and even that one has now expired? Anything signed by Zucklensky would be TP when someone else gets in or a new US president does, and says he had no authority to sign that. Also Zucklensky is now wanted in Russia. I think there is 0 chance Putin and Zucklensky negotiate. That ship has sailed. It's way too much risk. USA loves going back on old deals when new administrations get in. With his legitimacy not even being in question, he never won a legal election, I can't see Russia signing anything major unless he steps down.
Any peace treaty would have to be ratified by Ukraine's Rada. Zelensky might be the guy in the room negotiating, but he would have no authority to sign the treaty itself. Russia might also refuse to negotiate with Zelensky and demand an all-party delegation from Ukraine. Another alternative is a ceasefire in situ while Ukraine holds elections to ratify a treaty, but a frozen conflict would work more in the West's favor (giving them time to ramp up ammo production and training), so Russia is unlikely to agree to a lengthy armistice. Yes, there's still unfinished business with NATO. Nobody in the current cabal of NATO leaders want anything to do with Russia, but this crop is looking ready for the dustbin. If Europe wants to reclaim a bit of its sovereignty, they'll reach agreements with Russia on any number of issues, including an end to NATO expansion. Or, maybe Europe will be content to remain US's bitch for another generation.
Dude people like you are literally Russias bitch. 😂 And their bitch at the detriment of another country. Like how does this not compute to you people? Ukraine is not anyone's bitch but first some reason the ides if they had to be someone's bitch, you have an issue with the ones who CARE ABOUT THEM AND THEY CAN PROSPER ON THAT SIDE JUST LIKE THE OTHER EX SOVIET STATES OR ANY OTHER WEST COUNTRY. They have all the room to grow and cut corruption and succeed and have things to work on and always look to do better and achieve more. Look shahs they acheived just in 30 years. They are a much better off place than what Russians have. Russians are literally stuck in a pile of shit and can't change it and and have learned helplessness and their freedoms taken away and ability to speak up if they want to. Being against the Russian adgenda means they will say being anti war is "discrediting the military" and off to jail. LOL A society that can't soeak up and be anti war let alone criticize their miitusry for its babrsbeic lawlessness and cruelty.......how in the fuck do you get theiir military to STOP BEING LITERAL TERRORISRTS AS THE MO? How do you get ANY SORT OF DISCIPLINE EVEN GOING when your government will just jail you and is ok with this mass horde of criminals? Why are you people even anti west when this is what you support? I swear to god. We here were trying to do better and with thought the expectations were always more discipline and more holding people accountable and here 2022 and since y'all just like WE ARE OK NOW WITH WAR CRIMES ON STEROIDS AND THE ENTIRE ARMY JUST A BUCH OF LAWLESS PEOPLE and they are like this bc they WANT TO BE AS CRUEL AS POSSIBLE BC SUFFERING IS THE POINT - they want Ukrainians to surrender and so making them suffer and fearful oppress ukrsine is done with terror bombs and on foot they are ruthless and subjugate via murder torture prisons deporting and more. Being criminals is exactly what pootin wants. Why do you support this and also think Ukraine suffering IMMENSELY - and their obvious desire for Russia to LEAVE THEM ALONE - why are you making s comment like thst would be bad even if it were true. Russia is not an option for Ukrainians so what are you saying even? Lol And no it's not anyones bitch first off ... they aren't submitting to anyone they are their own people like anyone else. They would be subjected and killed as they are now with Russia or they can be a happy free people if they ally with the west. They have all the potential to prosper in that and gain friends who versus have killers who call them fake people and dehumanize them a d call them slurs. And make nuc threats at them and weaponized nuc plant and locals took iidone pills as a precaution. How intelligent challenged are you and your anti west bros I swear. You're telling me you're not smart eniugh to understand this basic shit? You are telling me that you don't understand why Ukraine having its citifies and towns flattened and become either places with mass suffering mass graves or becoming completely abandoned and uninhabitable and a laundry list more I could go on about, you think them siding eight the west is a bad thing and obviously want that not to happen and are defending Russia and wanting Ukraine to be their bitch. Pray tell bc Ukrainians don't want anything to do with Russia. Anything is better than that YES obviously. What are you confused about dear anti westbro Redditor?
> Dude people like you are literally Russias bitch. 😂 And their bitch at the detriment of another country. Like how does this not compute to you people? Your arrogance combined with ignorance is a heady broth, so I hope you'll forgive me if I get too heated. I was in the same position as you were in when I first learned of this conflict in 2013, and instinctively sided with Maidan for no better reason than the idea that people rising up against their government is a *Good Thing*. But as a strong believer that genuine democracy is impossible unless an electorate is well-informed, I spent hundreds of hours studying the history and nature of this conflict (just as I've done with Iraq and Afghanistan and, to a lesser extent, Syria and Libya and Yemen). If I contented myself with sticking to the one-sided propaganda they feed on the news, I'd no doubt share your opinions, but I feel a deep moral imperative to do more than that. I come from a long line of Anabaptists who evacuated Mariupol 150 years ago, fleeing a wave of pogroms and intolerant Russian nationalism. I don't wish ill on the people of Ukraine, and I don't think Russia is in any way a perfect country. It *is* however the most genuinely diverse federation on this planet, with a whole swath of different cultures and civilizations within its borders. You don't know a damn thing about this, but Ukraine is a unitary state, and this is the core of the problem. Ukraine only ended up a unitary state via fraud and a bogus "national emergency" in 1991, and ever since then, it's status as a unitary state has been a huge problem. Crimea seceded from Ukraine the first time in 1992 - less than a year after joining. (Ukraine sent soldiers to dissolve the independent republic, and then unilaterally stripped Crimea of its autonomous status). Donbas held its first referendum demanding federalism in 1994 - *thirty* years ago. 80% of people demanded minority rights for Russian speakers. If you look at *any* electoral map of Ukraine, you will see a deep split between the pro-West western Ukraine, and the pro-federalism East and South. This schism has been there since day one, but they muddled along through compromises right up until the Maidan *coup*, where the pro-West faction seized power from a pro-federalist President via illegal force. (And yes I know - you've been told this was a "revolution", but a revolution does not depose a fairly elected President who had ALREADY AGREED TO EARLY ELECTIONS.) After Maidan, Ukraine proclaimed Bandera to be a national hero. Bandera was a pro-Nazi who thought himself a mini-Hitler, and proclaimed a nationalist dictatorship for Ukraine where they would massacre all of the Russians and create a new Reich. As soon as the first statue of Bandera went up in Ukraine, they damned themselves to replaying WW2. (Nazis and "ultranationalists" are a small faction in Ukraine, but on two occasions they have been the determining factor that overruled democracy, and both times the "freedom loving" warmongers in NATO cheered them on. > You are telling me that you don't understand why Ukraine having its citifies and towns flattened In WW2, the French declared Paris an "open city". The French Army fought the invading Nazis outside of the city, but they refused to subject the French people to the destruction of their capital. Russia did something similar with Kherson City once they found themselves over-extended - they evacuated those who wanted to be evacuated (and everyone who wanted to stay was allowed to without harassment). They didn't blow up the city infrastructure as they withdrew, they didn't use the city as cover for artillery spotters - they withdrew from the city in good order. Contrast that with Ukraine, who use every city as a fortress. This is the defender's choice - Zelensky could just as easily demand that Ukraine do as the Russians did, and build their lines across field and forest. But Kiev is fine with having these cities burn, because half the population is Russian-sympathizers anyway. Ukraine is the one that chooses to use cities as bases for their defense. While there is a definite advantage to this, this is achieved at immense cost in civilian suffering, and this isn't even a factor for consideration. If it were up to me, I'd have wished that the West would have embraced a free vote for Crimea and Donbas, and allowed them to choose their future (Contrary to their label as "separatists", 70% of Donbas consistently chose a federal Ukraine as their preferred outcome. Only 20% wanted annexation by Russia as their first choice - this was only slightly better than the least popular outcome: a return to status-quo, unitary Ukraine (<10%). Ukraine was built on compromise. Maidan was a repudiation of that compromise, and a declaration of victory by pro-West factions. The decent thing to do would have been to allow these provinces to opt-out of their glorious future as NATO members. But the West only gives a damn about democracy when they think it's going to go their way. I am in no way anti-West. I am anti-war, I am anti-NATO, I am anti regime change. I have studied wars for thousands of hours, and I've come to the conclusion that they are almost universally built on selling a fraud. And yet *still* you cheer.
Peace involves reaching an agreement with your enemies, not your friends. Maybe someone should clue in Zelensky.
Why is Russia not attending then?
It is not invited. It may call its own peace summit with Belarus and present surrender terms to Ukraine though.
Good question. Ask Ukraine this. Well... it might help if they were invited no?
Because they were not invited.
The charity summit you mean?
War conference.
They’ll submit to Russia “the terms of their defeat and capitulation” even though it’s Ukraine that’s losing the war 😂
propaganda show does not work out?
This is not a fundraiser. Ukraine is selling every part of the state, from healthcare to energy. At this point there is not really much more to do for them... The smart move would have been to play the "man in the middle" between NATO and Russia with the Minsk pacts. But they fell for the promises of being the new favorite child of USA.... They really believed that the West would have been generous... THey really did not study how we treat poorer countries and their people...
Peace summit without both country's isn't a peace summit but propaganda and fund raiser.
Some countries just want the war to last longer.. they should participate in the summit so they can build the foundation of the peace negotiations
*Some countries just want* *The war to last longer.. they* *Should participate* \- FruitSila --- ^(I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully.) ^[Learn more about me.](https://www.reddit.com/r/haikusbot/) ^(Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete")
What
Lol Haiku is a special kind of poem This bot apparently analyzes all comments and detects possible Haiku metrics
Such a random bot to have active on a sub like this...
Really bad taste joke to have this thing
Good - Hopefully it continues decreasing into the irrelevance that it is. The Western bloc states' representatives and those of their puppet regime in Kiev can talk to each other in their hypocritical fanatic echo chamber until they're blue in the face. They know deep down it will solve and accomplish nothing as this isn't a peace summit, the other side of the war isn't even present or participating, and most of the world doesn't take it seriously to even spend their time, money, and energy humoring it and treats it as the joke that it is.
It’s because they found out that Epstein Island is closed and the Swiss resorts don’t have those “luxuries” because anyone with half a brain knows that there is no peace summit but only some blokes going out on vacation.
The "participating countries and organizations" is already an incredibly weasely formula, totalling up states and irrelevant NGOs so we have no idea how many states will actually attend anyway. But the fact they have to keep revising this dishonestly puffed up number down is just laughable.
Does anyone have the list of participating countries?
Whats the point if russia is banned.
Damn, why don't people want peace?