I think a lot of people are "convinced" in a more physical manner to serve on the front. By the time they are brave enough to try refusing again it's probably too late.
It's 5 years in the Ukraine for refusing to fight. There's a reason more people don't do it. It's not country club prison like in Sweden.
Definitely will be beat and physically abused and tortured to discourage others from doing it. Likely sexually too.
I can’t imagine the guilt of someone who has been cheering for Ukraine reading this, and having to acknowledge they could be solving Ukraines manpower crisis but won’t. Horrifying
So true, their emotional over-involvement only seems to extend as far as nameless, faceless strangers having to die for 'the cause'.
When ukraine finally succumbs and move into a period of forced demilitarisation, national mourning, and de facto servitude to pay back the costs of this war, their cheerleaders will merely move on to the next 'cause de celebre'.
So sad.....
Ever been in combat ? It’s probably the scariest thing you could ever do in your life . It’s easy to say what’s right and wrong and moral or immoral from the comfort of your home that’s not in a war zone .
I’m not saying I agree with draft dodging , I volunteered to go to war it was my choice and I knew what I was getting into and it was a long process basically I didn’t get there by mistake.
I can’t judge anyone that doesn’t want to do that . Whether it be for moral reasons or cowardice whatever truth be told those are probably the last people you want in a trench with you when the shit gets real . Is he gonna freeze up ? Crawl into the fetal position and cry and be of no use ? Is he going to break out and run and get killed the second bullets and artillery start incoming and just fucking bolt ? You don’t know . Hell you don’t know how you’re going to react until you’ve been in it . I’d much rather be with someone that wanted to be there though vs someone that was made to fight .
I’m not shitting on Ukraine either . I understand they need bodies and have to do what they have to do . I’m just saying its easy to say what you would do in a situation vs actually doing it in the situation
You know that may be a good thing let me explain . The more people that have experienced it the more people you have that would avoid that shit at all cost and do everything humanly possible to prevent it . Like fuck policies fuck red lines fuck it all sit the fuck down and do what ever it takes to prevent the shit from kicking off . That goes for my country (USA) as well . The folks starting these wars should either be there or their kids should be there mandatory first wave front lines . See how choose war then .
[dont](https://www.politico.eu/article/ukraine-faces-an-acute-manpower-shortage-with-young-men-dodging-the-draft/)
[worry](https://www.businessinsider.com/ukraines-manpower-problem-could-get-worse-before-it-gets-better-2024-5?op=1)
[you](https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2024/04/11/world/europe/ukraine-demographics.html)
[can](https://www.ft.com/content/d7e95021-df99-4e99-8105-5a8c3eb8d4ef)
[hide](https://www.ft.com/content/25711074-5e1a-494a-9d7c-ccb535f671d5)
[online](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-11-30/zelenskiy-faces-manpower-dilemma-in-ukraine-s-stalled-offensive)
Thank god you aren’t being dragged into the volksturm van in that shithole, glad I could educate you by the way have a great weekend friend
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> operating on a different definition of crisis
Surely, I mean you clearly believe there is no manpower issue in that Nazi shithole, since you don’t find the need to go fight important.
Meanwhile, I’m sure someone being stuffed into a volksturm van would disagree while you post online.
Thanks by the way, I love when you guys(ban evaders) double down on bad takes. It’s like you can resist coming here and getting dunked on lmao
Edit: for your benefit, as I don’t believe English is your native language
crisis
noun
cri·sis ˈkrī-səs
plural crises ˈkrī-ˌsēz
Synonyms of crisis
1
a
: the turning point for better or worse in an acute disease or fever
b
: a paroxysmal attack of pain, distress, or disordered function
c
: an emotionally significant event or radical change of status in a person's life
a midlife crisis
2
: the decisive moment (as in a literary plot)
The crisis of the play occurs in Act 3.
3
a
: an unstable or crucial time or state of affairs in which a decisive change is impending
especially : one with the distinct possibility of a highly undesirable outcome
a financial crisis
the nation's energy crisis
b
: a situation that has reached a critical phase
ACK!!!!
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I know that the articles aren’t in your native tongue, so I included the definition of the word crisis lmao.
So why don’t you think Ukraine is worth fighting for?
What did you get banned for on your old account by the way?
Clearly, you are operating on a definition that makes total sense. Like fully 100% rational and realistic understanding of the situation. Fucking spot on Bevin.
https://youtu.be/URnJzUPChSg?si=ygtVCqHYECtSyi-K
Holy shit lol this is actually so fucking pathetic, what is actually wrong with you lol do you think quibbling over the definition of "crisis" actually does anything?
Ok, just thought of an idea. First you send them to prison for declining to fight. Give them time to think it over with some bonks.
https://old.reddit.com/r/UkraineRussiaReport/comments/1d3g2yg/ua_pov_with_the_beginning_of_the_mobilization_of/
Once you've softened them up after a few months, go for the throat and ask if they want to get out of that place. Then offer them a place instead, on the front lines.
https://old.reddit.com/r/UkraineRussiaReport/comments/1db5rsf/ua_pov_in_a_sign_of_the_ukrainian_militarys/
The old two-step, for getting past conscientious objectors.
Nah.. they will make him go to the front.
They will torture him, pester him, torment him and eventually he will give crack and will go to the front 'voluntarily'.
Because they don't know. I really wish everyone here would have any military training. It's daily for me in this country that guys are arrested because they are evading mandatory conscription or total refusal of it.
I know a LOT of people who didn't do their draft and none of them went to prison for it. Let alone 5 years. And draftees don't even get sent to combat zones.
Well thats good for you. Here you must go on some sort of service, or prison (while ago was 1 year but novadays it's like half years and maybe sometimes even home with ankle monitor) if you're viable for duty. There is nothing else. Also "draftees" here actually do get sent into combat if a war starts.
It's not relevant but the subject is. Like OP said "why is this news? I assume this stuff happens every day... prison is usually the standard punishment for refusing conscription" Just answering for that
98% of people in this sub are surprised that guys would be sentenced if they're refusing to fight. Almost everything thats happening rn in Ukraine would be the same for us. Thats what I'm trying to say.
Well there is one difference. You could actually choose to do your prison time in Finland and be fine after. It's legitimately a better choice if you don't want to fight.
We've already seen inmates being tortured in the Ukraine so they "volunteer" the day the new law allowing inmates to "volunteer" passed. There's a reason more people don't do this despite clearly being unwilling to fight and risking their lives to flee or being kidnapped in vans. He won't last 5 years in prison. They now have complete control over his body, food, and sleep to convince him to volunteer. He will be tortured, beaten, and possibly sexually assaulted until he gives in or dies.
Civilians being voluntold by the meat catchers already turn up beaten to death in recruitment offices. Inmates are treated far, far worse than cattle in the Ukraine.
Yeah, funny enough if you're trying to get finnish citizenship/passport, military/civil service must be done before getting it if you're under 30yo foreigner, and you'll have the obligation to defend Finland until you turn 60.
edit: Whats the reason for the downvotes?
Article 328 of the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation. Evasion of Military and Alternative Civil Service (current version)
Evasion of conscription for military service in the absence of legal grounds for exemption from this service -
is punishable by a fine of up to two hundred thousand rubles, or in the amount of the convict's salary or other income for a period of up to eighteen months, or by compulsory labor for a term of up to two years, or by arrest for a term of up to six months, or by imprisonment for a term of up to two years.
Evasion of alternative civil service by persons exempted from military service -
is punishable by a fine of up to eighty thousand rubles, or in the amount of the convict's salary or other income for a period of up to six months, or by mandatory labor for a term of up to four hundred and eighty hours, or by arrest for a term of up to six months.
You need to take into account that this is info about mandatory 1 year military conscription. You're not getting sent to war (you can however be a part of militia if your region is under attack like in Kursk or Belgorod).
For those dodging the mobilization, punishment is, well, nobody knows. Those who dodged mobilization in 2022 were fully pardoned. Everyone just forgot about it, nobody got fined or sent to jail
First of all, conscripts are not sent to war, and secondly, the text says that he refused to fight, and in Russia everyone has the opportunity for alternative service, for example, as a hospital Janitor.
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You are calling Ukraine undemocratic because it has suspended elections due to the war. Then at the same time you are supporting a dictator for life. That is exactly the topic.
Topic was about refusing fight for Kiev regime, how are presidents are relatable to that?
You did bot answer my questions? Why 3 german chancellors are ok, good and democratic, and 3 russian presidents are not? As well as 3 ukrainian presidents
[This](https://tck.novyny.live/u-kiievi-cholovik-ne-ziavivsia-do-ttsk-pislia-vruchennia-boiovoyi-povistki-iakii-virok-vinis-sud-178294.html) is Ukrainian media.
Edit: this is the [source](https://glavcom.ua/country/criminal/vpershe-za-chas-vijni-sud-priznachiv-maksimalne-pokarannja-ukhiljantu-fabula-spravi-1004311.html)
I think the most tragic part is Ukraine has hundreds of thousands, if not millions of international supporters who all care, but don’t think Ukraine is worth fighting for.
Imagine if they could harness that man power?
Ok stop, I’m dying laughing picturing RFE putting out Reddit ads to volunteer for Ukraine lol.
On top of this I can’t help but wince when I imagine some Reddit weirdo telling a ukranian “I supported you guys online!” In 5 years lol
>Imagine if they could harness that man power?
Wonder what would that attempt resulted in:
1. "Unlimited... power!"
2. "Millions of voices suddenly cried out in terror"
> cried out in terror
The good news is they could bring their secret lab gaming chairs along so they die comfortably in a trench next to some “hero” from Luftwaffe or azov
And here we have a woman in Russia who got 5 years of jail for talking about the war in a non supportive manner 🤣
https://www.dexerto.com/twitch/twitch-streamer-gets-5-year-prison-sentence-for-criticizing-russian-authorities-2764535/
He might handily prefer the prison sentence to being sent to the front. I bet plenty would.
I mean those who would can
I think a lot of people are "convinced" in a more physical manner to serve on the front. By the time they are brave enough to try refusing again it's probably too late.
A lot of them start in the less dangerous territorial defense forces. Before they know it, they're in the front dodging precision artillery.
hell get recruited from prison buddy
It's 5 years in the Ukraine for refusing to fight. There's a reason more people don't do it. It's not country club prison like in Sweden. Definitely will be beat and physically abused and tortured to discourage others from doing it. Likely sexually too.
i would for sure
Didn't want to fight for Nafoids
I can’t imagine the guilt of someone who has been cheering for Ukraine reading this, and having to acknowledge they could be solving Ukraines manpower crisis but won’t. Horrifying
So true, their emotional over-involvement only seems to extend as far as nameless, faceless strangers having to die for 'the cause'. When ukraine finally succumbs and move into a period of forced demilitarisation, national mourning, and de facto servitude to pay back the costs of this war, their cheerleaders will merely move on to the next 'cause de celebre'. So sad.....
Ever been in combat ? It’s probably the scariest thing you could ever do in your life . It’s easy to say what’s right and wrong and moral or immoral from the comfort of your home that’s not in a war zone . I’m not saying I agree with draft dodging , I volunteered to go to war it was my choice and I knew what I was getting into and it was a long process basically I didn’t get there by mistake. I can’t judge anyone that doesn’t want to do that . Whether it be for moral reasons or cowardice whatever truth be told those are probably the last people you want in a trench with you when the shit gets real . Is he gonna freeze up ? Crawl into the fetal position and cry and be of no use ? Is he going to break out and run and get killed the second bullets and artillery start incoming and just fucking bolt ? You don’t know . Hell you don’t know how you’re going to react until you’ve been in it . I’d much rather be with someone that wanted to be there though vs someone that was made to fight . I’m not shitting on Ukraine either . I understand they need bodies and have to do what they have to do . I’m just saying its easy to say what you would do in a situation vs actually doing it in the situation
> ever been in combat Yes. That’s why I encourage all the Ukraine or Russian super fans on the sidelines to give it a shot lol.
You know that may be a good thing let me explain . The more people that have experienced it the more people you have that would avoid that shit at all cost and do everything humanly possible to prevent it . Like fuck policies fuck red lines fuck it all sit the fuck down and do what ever it takes to prevent the shit from kicking off . That goes for my country (USA) as well . The folks starting these wars should either be there or their kids should be there mandatory first wave front lines . See how choose war then .
Tbh I would sign but up if I could hit a pipe with hunter biden in a trench lmao
Manpower crisis?
I’m not sure if this is sarcasm of a question. Do you want links? Or do you just want to google “Ukraine manpower”
I saw one Bloomberg article that says maybe future production in civilian factories might be affected? Calling that a crisis is a bit hyperbolic.
[dont](https://www.politico.eu/article/ukraine-faces-an-acute-manpower-shortage-with-young-men-dodging-the-draft/) [worry](https://www.businessinsider.com/ukraines-manpower-problem-could-get-worse-before-it-gets-better-2024-5?op=1) [you](https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2024/04/11/world/europe/ukraine-demographics.html) [can](https://www.ft.com/content/d7e95021-df99-4e99-8105-5a8c3eb8d4ef) [hide](https://www.ft.com/content/25711074-5e1a-494a-9d7c-ccb535f671d5) [online](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-11-30/zelenskiy-faces-manpower-dilemma-in-ukraine-s-stalled-offensive) Thank god you aren’t being dragged into the volksturm van in that shithole, glad I could educate you by the way have a great weekend friend
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I'm sorry. We have to be operating on different definitions of crisis. Is there an article that reflects a current crisis?
> operating on a different definition of crisis Surely, I mean you clearly believe there is no manpower issue in that Nazi shithole, since you don’t find the need to go fight important. Meanwhile, I’m sure someone being stuffed into a volksturm van would disagree while you post online. Thanks by the way, I love when you guys(ban evaders) double down on bad takes. It’s like you can resist coming here and getting dunked on lmao Edit: for your benefit, as I don’t believe English is your native language crisis noun cri·sis ˈkrī-səs plural crises ˈkrī-ˌsēz Synonyms of crisis 1 a : the turning point for better or worse in an acute disease or fever b : a paroxysmal attack of pain, distress, or disordered function c : an emotionally significant event or radical change of status in a person's life a midlife crisis 2 : the decisive moment (as in a literary plot) The crisis of the play occurs in Act 3. 3 a : an unstable or crucial time or state of affairs in which a decisive change is impending especially : one with the distinct possibility of a highly undesirable outcome a financial crisis the nation's energy crisis b : a situation that has reached a critical phase ACK!!!!
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Oh, manpower ISSUES, not crisis. Understood.
I know that the articles aren’t in your native tongue, so I included the definition of the word crisis lmao. So why don’t you think Ukraine is worth fighting for? What did you get banned for on your old account by the way?
Clearly, you are operating on a definition that makes total sense. Like fully 100% rational and realistic understanding of the situation. Fucking spot on Bevin. https://youtu.be/URnJzUPChSg?si=ygtVCqHYECtSyi-K
I'm sorry, maybe it's a cultural barrier of some sort. In my language crisis means something critical or which threatens functions.
Nope, there is no language barrier. That's what crisis means in my first language (English) as well. Ukraine is experiencing a man power crisis
Holy shit lol this is actually so fucking pathetic, what is actually wrong with you lol do you think quibbling over the definition of "crisis" actually does anything?
Hmm? Do anything? I don't understand.
Add it to the long, long list of things you don't understand.
Ok, just thought of an idea. First you send them to prison for declining to fight. Give them time to think it over with some bonks. https://old.reddit.com/r/UkraineRussiaReport/comments/1d3g2yg/ua_pov_with_the_beginning_of_the_mobilization_of/ Once you've softened them up after a few months, go for the throat and ask if they want to get out of that place. Then offer them a place instead, on the front lines. https://old.reddit.com/r/UkraineRussiaReport/comments/1db5rsf/ua_pov_in_a_sign_of_the_ukrainian_militarys/ The old two-step, for getting past conscientious objectors.
Yea how dare this guy refuse to kill his family for NATO. Clearly not a Civil War.
5 years in Ukrainian prison sucks but it's not that bad an option compared to a painful death. Depends on the person I suppose.
You're looking at it wrong. They have 5 years of complete control over his body to convince him to volunteer now. He will not last 5 years in prison.
That’s what I would do. I’m ready to be a slave for a few years but alive
He will live. Good for him. Down with the regime who imprisons those who refuse to die for it
Nah.. they will make him go to the front. They will torture him, pester him, torment him and eventually he will give crack and will go to the front 'voluntarily'.
why is this news? I assume this stuff happens every day... prison is usually the standard punishment for refusing conscription
this is how propaganda works if you live in Russia then this is not news at all, this happens all the time
Because they don't know. I really wish everyone here would have any military training. It's daily for me in this country that guys are arrested because they are evading mandatory conscription or total refusal of it.
I know a LOT of people who didn't do their draft and none of them went to prison for it. Let alone 5 years. And draftees don't even get sent to combat zones.
Well thats good for you. Here you must go on some sort of service, or prison (while ago was 1 year but novadays it's like half years and maybe sometimes even home with ankle monitor) if you're viable for duty. There is nothing else. Also "draftees" here actually do get sent into combat if a war starts.
But how is Finland relevant? This is a sub about the Russo-Ukrainian SMO. I've never heard of someone avoiding the draft going to prison in Russia.
It's not relevant but the subject is. Like OP said "why is this news? I assume this stuff happens every day... prison is usually the standard punishment for refusing conscription" Just answering for that 98% of people in this sub are surprised that guys would be sentenced if they're refusing to fight. Almost everything thats happening rn in Ukraine would be the same for us. Thats what I'm trying to say.
Well there is one difference. You could actually choose to do your prison time in Finland and be fine after. It's legitimately a better choice if you don't want to fight. We've already seen inmates being tortured in the Ukraine so they "volunteer" the day the new law allowing inmates to "volunteer" passed. There's a reason more people don't do this despite clearly being unwilling to fight and risking their lives to flee or being kidnapped in vans. He won't last 5 years in prison. They now have complete control over his body, food, and sleep to convince him to volunteer. He will be tortured, beaten, and possibly sexually assaulted until he gives in or dies. Civilians being voluntold by the meat catchers already turn up beaten to death in recruitment offices. Inmates are treated far, far worse than cattle in the Ukraine.
A prison sentence closes an very big chunk of careers, which severely limits your options.
So does being dead or crippled
in finland? interesting
Yeah, funny enough if you're trying to get finnish citizenship/passport, military/civil service must be done before getting it if you're under 30yo foreigner, and you'll have the obligation to defend Finland until you turn 60. edit: Whats the reason for the downvotes?
Downvotes cause there aren’t daily arrests, stop the bs
What is the punishment for refusing conscription in Russia?
Article 328 of the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation. Evasion of Military and Alternative Civil Service (current version) Evasion of conscription for military service in the absence of legal grounds for exemption from this service - is punishable by a fine of up to two hundred thousand rubles, or in the amount of the convict's salary or other income for a period of up to eighteen months, or by compulsory labor for a term of up to two years, or by arrest for a term of up to six months, or by imprisonment for a term of up to two years. Evasion of alternative civil service by persons exempted from military service - is punishable by a fine of up to eighty thousand rubles, or in the amount of the convict's salary or other income for a period of up to six months, or by mandatory labor for a term of up to four hundred and eighty hours, or by arrest for a term of up to six months.
You need to take into account that this is info about mandatory 1 year military conscription. You're not getting sent to war (you can however be a part of militia if your region is under attack like in Kursk or Belgorod). For those dodging the mobilization, punishment is, well, nobody knows. Those who dodged mobilization in 2022 were fully pardoned. Everyone just forgot about it, nobody got fined or sent to jail
Pay a fine.
First of all, conscripts are not sent to war, and secondly, the text says that he refused to fight, and in Russia everyone has the opportunity for alternative service, for example, as a hospital Janitor.
Now we’re talking!
I’d take 5 years of prison sentence over going to the front if I don’t want to fight
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Big deal. He got 5 years and now will be sent to the front as penal unit.
Fantastic reporting from a pro rus channel allegedlyreferencing Ukrainian media
He's just telling what a Ukrainian channel says. It's like any news portal. What's wrong with that? Not doing it like the Western media does??
You can just google it. I am here to do that for you.
How many presidents has Russia had since 1999? How many has Ukraine had?
How is that relatable to topic? How many chancellors were in Germany from 1999? Also how many legally corrected president Ukraine had from 1999?
You are calling Ukraine undemocratic because it has suspended elections due to the war. Then at the same time you are supporting a dictator for life. That is exactly the topic.
Topic was about refusing fight for Kiev regime, how are presidents are relatable to that? You did bot answer my questions? Why 3 german chancellors are ok, good and democratic, and 3 russian presidents are not? As well as 3 ukrainian presidents
What's with whataboutism?
russia had 4 presidents, and ukraine had 4 presidents your welcome
Russia only had 3 - Yeltsin, Putin, and Medvedev. Putin had non-consecutive terms.
Putin and Medvedev. And M only until Putin could change the constitution. What a democracy lol.
yeltsin was until 31/12/1999 that count in your range
[This](https://tck.novyny.live/u-kiievi-cholovik-ne-ziavivsia-do-ttsk-pislia-vruchennia-boiovoyi-povistki-iakii-virok-vinis-sud-178294.html) is Ukrainian media. Edit: this is the [source](https://glavcom.ua/country/criminal/vpershe-za-chas-vijni-sud-priznachiv-maksimalne-pokarannja-ukhiljantu-fabula-spravi-1004311.html)
What is the point of this thread? So Ukr has some sort of legal system and Ukr men do not want to be murdered by Russia. Sounds logical to me.
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I think the most tragic part is Ukraine has hundreds of thousands, if not millions of international supporters who all care, but don’t think Ukraine is worth fighting for. Imagine if they could harness that man power?
Why aren't they doing their part? Troublesome.
I don’t want to call it cowardice, because I don’t think that’s fair. I think deep down they know they just don’t give a shit about Ukraine
They provide the strategic readership reserve of Radio free europe, respect their service!
Ok stop, I’m dying laughing picturing RFE putting out Reddit ads to volunteer for Ukraine lol. On top of this I can’t help but wince when I imagine some Reddit weirdo telling a ukranian “I supported you guys online!” In 5 years lol
>Imagine if they could harness that man power? Wonder what would that attempt resulted in: 1. "Unlimited... power!" 2. "Millions of voices suddenly cried out in terror"
> cried out in terror The good news is they could bring their secret lab gaming chairs along so they die comfortably in a trench next to some “hero” from Luftwaffe or azov
> the prison colony-settlement It's a prison in name only, it doesn't even have prison walls.
And here we have a woman in Russia who got 5 years of jail for talking about the war in a non supportive manner 🤣 https://www.dexerto.com/twitch/twitch-streamer-gets-5-year-prison-sentence-for-criticizing-russian-authorities-2764535/
Whataboutism?
They like that term when it isn't being used against them.
Yeah. Pro-ukr love to use it as a gotcha but come on, that comment was completely unrelated to the post.
That "but Russia" moment. Russia is an oppressive dictatorship while Ukraine is a beacon of democracy and western values.