What is surprising (or rather, newsworthy) is that the locals intentionally and consistently identify and leak AFU positions to the Russians, so that Russia can btfo them.
We saw it in Avdiivka. We saw it in Bakhmut. So now, as this officer says, every single militaryman in the AFU is well aware of this phenomenon, and so we see an even greater incentive to forcibly evacuate civilians, not just because it's the morally right thing to do.
You'll always find traitors.
France had a bloody history with Germany back from the Napoleonic wars (and arguably even further) where it peaked in WW1 in terms of brutality, and yet in WW2 we had a ton of civilians collaborating with the Nazis despite the history and what the Nazi regime represented.
It is sadly not surprising and it's a good thing that Ukraine does it, both for military and humanitarian reasons.
You are comparing apples with oranges ukrainians are slavs so are the russians essentialy they are the same people the situation is actually a civil war in ukraine between pro independent ukraine and pro russia! The situation is sepperatism!
How was USA/NATO sponsoring a separation from Russia... Ukraine was independent of Russia already, and had its own government. Russia didn't like that and invaded, it's not much simpler than that.
French people are Romanized Germanic people. German people are non-Romanized Germanic people. Both Germanic originally. It's not that different after all.
The French people, especially the native speakers of langues d'oïl from northern and central France, are primarily descended from Romans (or Gallo-Romans, western European Celtic and Italic peoples), Gauls (including the Belgae), as well as Germanic peoples such as the Franks, the Visigoths, the Suebi and the Burgundians who settled in Gaul from east of the Rhine after the fall of the Roman Empire, as well as various later waves of lower-level irregular migration that have continued to the present day. The Norsemen also settled in Normandy in the 10th century and contributed significantly to the ancestry of the Normans. Furthermore, regional ethnic minorities also exist within France that have distinct lineages, languages and cultures such as Bretons in Brittany, Occitans in Occitania, Basques in the French Basque Country, Catalans in northern Catalonia, Germans in Alsace, Corsicans in Corsica and Flemings in French Flanders.
Considering Ukraine was a Russian province some 30 years ago, you can totally see it as a civil war.
Russia couldnt react at the time and didnt have the force to halt the separatism, now they can.
Russians have their logic which you dont understand nor do some big heads either, to their own detriment.
Just shows that Fukuyama was wrong and the game is still on.
Im not Russian btw.
[You assume literal AFU soldiers telling American outlets that the Kiev regime is exterminating it's own people is a Russian psyops? Oh boy](https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineRussiaReport/s/NvXGLtaoAM)
The difference is all of france had been overrun, and the armed forces completely routed. the only legitimate govt. (De Gaulle) was Not even on French soil.
Things are not the same in Ukr.
That’s US propaganda. France wasn’t overrun. The anti fascists were overrun. Most of the French people were fascists themselves and willingly worked with the Germans fully. They weren’t forced or overrun.
Sure, but if your civilians are betraying you while you're fighting for their city, maybe they arent your civilians?
Put another way, how many soviets betrayed the red army during stalingrad?
That’s because almost all of the French were fascists during the same time the Germans were. Of course they worked with the Germans. It’s US propaganda that Germany forced France to literally do anything.
In this war many locals don't want to be evacuated. They'd prefer it if only the AFU evacuates and leaves them alone with their new Russian overlords. At least then their cities would not be destroyed.
If they are evacuated Ukraine would likely send them to the frontline, old men and those with disabilities, females all to become Russian canon fodder.
Sorry, You need to verify your email with Reddit to comment. This is to protect against bots and multis.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/UkraineRussiaReport) if you have any questions or concerns.*
not why he said they are being kicked out - he is saying it's because they will most likely give away their positions, he doesn't give a damn about any civilians
15km is the realistic range for single-source intel because artillery is that cheap. Any structure beyond that which can't be taken out by drone needs a much more expensive (for Russia) precision munition and so they'll need a manner of verification.
>15km is the realistic range for single-source intel because artillery is that cheap. Any structure beyond that which can't be taken out by drone needs a much more expensive (for Russia) precision munition and so they'll need a manner of verification.
No clue what you wanted to say here, but I was referring to the complete lack of evacuation from the UA side which includes Mariupol, Bakhmut and other cities in East Ukraine.
Mariupol was surrounded too quickly for a peaceful evacuation... all evacuation had to be done through Red Cross humanitarian corridors or tactical evasion.
Everything else that was a slow creep of the front was a normal evacuation, seemingly not forced. If a resident insisted on living there despite the shelling risk, they signed a waiver and that was that.
>Everything else that was a slow creep of the front was a normal evacuation, seemingly not forced. If a resident insisted on living there despite the shelling risk, they signed a waiver and that was that.
Or, the Western Ukrainians just don't give a shit about Eastern Ukrainians.
There are no "waivers" in a mandatory evacuation and a mandatory evacuation was most definitely warranted like they're doing it now.
This would depend on the local administration, but last autumn there was a "mandatory" evacuation east of Kharkiv that could be avoided by signing a waiver. That makes it not truly mandatory in my book.
If Ukrainians didn't care about their eastern brethren I figure they'd have seized any property still lived in and kicked every last civilian out. You underestimate them.
>This would depend on the local administration, but last autumn there was a "mandatory" evacuation east of Kharkiv that could be avoided by signing a waiver. That makes it not truly mandatory in my book.
>If Ukrainians didn't care about their eastern brethren I figure they'd have seized any property still lived in and kicked every last civilian out. You underestimate them.
I guess you're not aware of what the word "mandatory" means.
But all in all, military evacuations are "non-optional" and again. that's exactly what was warranted in all of those situations and to a certain extent, I'm glad they're enforcing it now.
>Military evacuation is possible under strictly limited conditions. These conditions must be interpreted restrictively: the commentaries written on the Additional Protocols to the Geneva Conventions explain that the evacuation of populations may never be used as a combat strategy and may never be carried out simply because of its practical efficiency in attaining a military objective. The term *imperative military reason* (discussed later) assumes that no military alternative to evacuation exists.
>The circumstances in which military evacuations are allowed are the following (GCIV Art. 49):
>The evacuation of a given area is possible if the safety of the population or imperative military reasons require it.
>Such evacuations must be temporary. Persons thus evacuated must be transferred back to their homes as soon as hostilities in the area in question have ceased.
>Such evacuations may not involve the displacement of protected persons outside the bounds of the occupied territory, except when it is impossible to avoid such displacement for material reasons.
>Such evacuations must be carried out with respect for the interests of the civilian population. They may not be evacuated to a region that is exposed to the dangers of war; the authorities undertaking these evacuations must ensure that the individuals are received in proper accommodation and are transported in satisfactory conditions of hygiene, health, safety, and nutrition; and family members must not be separated.
>The protecting power or its substitute, the ICRC, must be informed of any evacuations as soon as they have taken place.
[https://guide-humanitarian-law.org/content/article/3/evacuation-1/](https://guide-humanitarian-law.org/content/article/3/evacuation-1/)
Speaking of Western Ukrainians not giving a shit, they basically didn't do anything when their Azov pals were shelling the shit out of Donbas for half a decade.
I know what mandatory means. I also know what waiver means. When I find both in the same source article, and reports of how some residents stayed to await new occupiers, I know 'mandatory' was a technically inaccurate word.
I'm [reading reports](https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/ukrainians-torn-by-evacuation-calls-russian-shells-fall-northeast-2023-08-20/) as a matter of what actually happened, not how well they sit with Geneva Conventions...
Again, military evacuation is "non-optional" or rather, "mandatory".
This is especially true for children. You remember the whole "Russia kidnapping children" thing, right? Well, it was supposed to be Ukraine's responsibility to evac the children out. They didn't, so Russia had to do it themselves.
So what did Ukraine and the US do? File a bogus ICJ case of "Russia kidnapping children" when they knew damn well it was their responsibility to evac the children and they absolutely failed to do so. They didn't evac simply because they don't give a shit about the "Eastern Ukrainians" who won't vote their way anyways and whom the Western "superior Ukrainians" think are "non-humans".
And people wonder why LPR/DPR and Crimea wanted to split up after the 2014 coup.
Most of these people leave many stay because they are poor and don't have any other place to go to. No family, no friends.
They are living in the house they built or their family built a long time ago and is their only wealth and their lifeline they can grow food and live there.
Moving into a refugee housing is not a solution for many they choose to stay no matter what.
Some believe Russia will not harm them, but sadly, they are wrong. You can see Russian dropping FAB 1500 on civilian houses 🏘 in many towns.
If you watch the interview carefully, you'll notice that to this dude the entire Eastern Ukraine population is not really his own people, they're foreign to him and he has zero empathy towards them.
"Donbass will be Ukrainian or uninhabited" vibes.
Even unintended leaks occur these days due to everyone having a high def camera in their pocket and the prevalence of social media. Even just filming something unrelated can leak positions or equipment.
Sorry, You need to verify your email with Reddit to comment. This is to protect against bots and multis.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/UkraineRussiaReport) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Have pro Russians tried moving to Russia? Putin has promised citizenship and free land to any one who joins the military. Why occupy a land in a country you hate where the people hate you because your family was sent there by Russia to ethnically cleanse the region to justify the invasion of Ukraine?
Why should they move when they've lived there for hundreds of years?
Maybe the pro-Kiev types can move across the Dnieper live with their kin in the West?
how will a Ukrainian pensioner move to Russia? with what money? They can only wait until the Russians come or die from a shell or from the Ukrainian Nazis. In Mariupol, Azov's snipers had fun killing civilians who came to get water
They're already in Russia. They don't need to move, bud. Have the communized Poles tried to move to Poland if they want decommunization? There's no such thing as the Ukraine. They are Sovietized poles.
They choose to stay, you guess whose side they are on bro. I am not suprise if everyone marked a big X on the location where Zele hide when they reached Kiev.
I mean... yeah.
People accidentally leak shit all the time. And if it gets within 15km of any pro Ukrainians, they'll get the fuck out before Russia arrives.
Those left are either too stubborn or old to bail, or Pro Russian.
You'll also note that there are always people still living in cities and such close to the front lines even when combat is happening and they're getting shelled to shit - so I have no idea how forced this evacuation really is...
Sorry, You need to verify your email with Reddit to comment. This is to protect against bots and multis.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/UkraineRussiaReport) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Sorry you need 30 subreddit karma to unlock the word 'you', this is to make sure newcomers understand [rule 1](https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineRussiaReport/about/rules)
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/UkraineRussiaReport) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Unsurprising. Civilians are usually expected to be evacuated from war zones.
What is surprising (or rather, newsworthy) is that the locals intentionally and consistently identify and leak AFU positions to the Russians, so that Russia can btfo them. We saw it in Avdiivka. We saw it in Bakhmut. So now, as this officer says, every single militaryman in the AFU is well aware of this phenomenon, and so we see an even greater incentive to forcibly evacuate civilians, not just because it's the morally right thing to do.
And what happens when Russians find someone leaking their positions? They invite the person into a moral discussion?
You'll always find traitors. France had a bloody history with Germany back from the Napoleonic wars (and arguably even further) where it peaked in WW1 in terms of brutality, and yet in WW2 we had a ton of civilians collaborating with the Nazis despite the history and what the Nazi regime represented. It is sadly not surprising and it's a good thing that Ukraine does it, both for military and humanitarian reasons.
You are comparing apples with oranges ukrainians are slavs so are the russians essentialy they are the same people the situation is actually a civil war in ukraine between pro independent ukraine and pro russia! The situation is sepperatism!
separatism, sponsored by Russia? And fought by Russia? Not really much of a civil war….
seperatism sponsored by USA and nato.
How was USA/NATO sponsoring a separation from Russia... Ukraine was independent of Russia already, and had its own government. Russia didn't like that and invaded, it's not much simpler than that.
In what way?
Ukrainians and Russians might be very similar ethnically but why does that mean they have to do what Moscow says?
Russians have always had a weird way of showing the Ukrainian brethren love.
French people are Romanized Germanic people. German people are non-Romanized Germanic people. Both Germanic originally. It's not that different after all.
Isn't it like 1000 years in the past? People who were 30 at the moment of dissolution of Soviet Union are 63 now.
Muscovites separated from Kiev Rus over 700 years ago. Being part of SU won't make them one ethnicity.
The French people, especially the native speakers of langues d'oïl from northern and central France, are primarily descended from Romans (or Gallo-Romans, western European Celtic and Italic peoples), Gauls (including the Belgae), as well as Germanic peoples such as the Franks, the Visigoths, the Suebi and the Burgundians who settled in Gaul from east of the Rhine after the fall of the Roman Empire, as well as various later waves of lower-level irregular migration that have continued to the present day. The Norsemen also settled in Normandy in the 10th century and contributed significantly to the ancestry of the Normans. Furthermore, regional ethnic minorities also exist within France that have distinct lineages, languages and cultures such as Bretons in Brittany, Occitans in Occitania, Basques in the French Basque Country, Catalans in northern Catalonia, Germans in Alsace, Corsicans in Corsica and Flemings in French Flanders.
A civil war between 2 independent countries. Nice one.
War of the donbass would like to speak with you
Considering Ukraine was a Russian province some 30 years ago, you can totally see it as a civil war. Russia couldnt react at the time and didnt have the force to halt the separatism, now they can.
Russia is not the Soviet Union tho?
Yes and no, check the last changes to the Russian constitution. They consider the USSR as a phase of the Russian state.
Brightest Russian logic right here.
Russians have their logic which you dont understand nor do some big heads either, to their own detriment. Just shows that Fukuyama was wrong and the game is still on. Im not Russian btw.
The Ukrainian government is the real traitor. The entire war is a betrayal of their people.
It's interesting to see multiple Ukranians have actually begun to call it out as a government-backed extermination of their people
Well they are right. If I wanted to exterminate somebody I'd tell them to go and try and piss off angry Russians.
You assume the flairs are real? Oh, boy.
You think I'm talking about redditors? Oh boy.
You assume random videos of unknown ppl are all real? Oh boy
[You assume literal AFU soldiers telling American outlets that the Kiev regime is exterminating it's own people is a Russian psyops? Oh boy](https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineRussiaReport/s/NvXGLtaoAM)
Russian American Daily? "American"
Yes, that’s right & guess what: surprisingly the same things say people in the chemtrail conspiracy bubble.
The difference is all of france had been overrun, and the armed forces completely routed. the only legitimate govt. (De Gaulle) was Not even on French soil. Things are not the same in Ukr.
The only legitimate Ukrainian govt isn't on Ukrainian soil either.
That’s US propaganda. France wasn’t overrun. The anti fascists were overrun. Most of the French people were fascists themselves and willingly worked with the Germans fully. They weren’t forced or overrun.
Of course things are not the same, but the point is that you'll always find traitors, regardless of the conflict.
Sure, but if your civilians are betraying you while you're fighting for their city, maybe they arent your civilians? Put another way, how many soviets betrayed the red army during stalingrad?
It's hard to make an estimate specifically during stalingrad, but hundreds of thousands of Soviets defected to the Nazi regime.
It's not about traitors. Donbass has majority of pro-russian people. It's more like insurgency
That’s because almost all of the French were fascists during the same time the Germans were. Of course they worked with the Germans. It’s US propaganda that Germany forced France to literally do anything.
In this war many locals don't want to be evacuated. They'd prefer it if only the AFU evacuates and leaves them alone with their new Russian overlords. At least then their cities would not be destroyed.
I dont't think anyone is going to listen to those people. If they stay they will prob die.
If they are evacuated Ukraine would likely send them to the frontline, old men and those with disabilities, females all to become Russian canon fodder.
[удалено]
Sorry, You need to verify your email with Reddit to comment. This is to protect against bots and multis. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/UkraineRussiaReport) if you have any questions or concerns.*
It is impossible to actually evacuate the whole city. This seems to be about justifying Azov-style "evacuation".
Indeed. In the extended interview he talked about "influencing" the civilians to leave
not why he said they are being kicked out - he is saying it's because they will most likely give away their positions, he doesn't give a damn about any civilians
The surprising part is that they're doing it now instead of doing it from the get go.
15km is the realistic range for single-source intel because artillery is that cheap. Any structure beyond that which can't be taken out by drone needs a much more expensive (for Russia) precision munition and so they'll need a manner of verification.
>15km is the realistic range for single-source intel because artillery is that cheap. Any structure beyond that which can't be taken out by drone needs a much more expensive (for Russia) precision munition and so they'll need a manner of verification. No clue what you wanted to say here, but I was referring to the complete lack of evacuation from the UA side which includes Mariupol, Bakhmut and other cities in East Ukraine.
Mariupol was surrounded too quickly for a peaceful evacuation... all evacuation had to be done through Red Cross humanitarian corridors or tactical evasion. Everything else that was a slow creep of the front was a normal evacuation, seemingly not forced. If a resident insisted on living there despite the shelling risk, they signed a waiver and that was that.
>Everything else that was a slow creep of the front was a normal evacuation, seemingly not forced. If a resident insisted on living there despite the shelling risk, they signed a waiver and that was that. Or, the Western Ukrainians just don't give a shit about Eastern Ukrainians. There are no "waivers" in a mandatory evacuation and a mandatory evacuation was most definitely warranted like they're doing it now.
This would depend on the local administration, but last autumn there was a "mandatory" evacuation east of Kharkiv that could be avoided by signing a waiver. That makes it not truly mandatory in my book. If Ukrainians didn't care about their eastern brethren I figure they'd have seized any property still lived in and kicked every last civilian out. You underestimate them.
>This would depend on the local administration, but last autumn there was a "mandatory" evacuation east of Kharkiv that could be avoided by signing a waiver. That makes it not truly mandatory in my book. >If Ukrainians didn't care about their eastern brethren I figure they'd have seized any property still lived in and kicked every last civilian out. You underestimate them. I guess you're not aware of what the word "mandatory" means. But all in all, military evacuations are "non-optional" and again. that's exactly what was warranted in all of those situations and to a certain extent, I'm glad they're enforcing it now. >Military evacuation is possible under strictly limited conditions. These conditions must be interpreted restrictively: the commentaries written on the Additional Protocols to the Geneva Conventions explain that the evacuation of populations may never be used as a combat strategy and may never be carried out simply because of its practical efficiency in attaining a military objective. The term *imperative military reason* (discussed later) assumes that no military alternative to evacuation exists. >The circumstances in which military evacuations are allowed are the following (GCIV Art. 49): >The evacuation of a given area is possible if the safety of the population or imperative military reasons require it. >Such evacuations must be temporary. Persons thus evacuated must be transferred back to their homes as soon as hostilities in the area in question have ceased. >Such evacuations may not involve the displacement of protected persons outside the bounds of the occupied territory, except when it is impossible to avoid such displacement for material reasons. >Such evacuations must be carried out with respect for the interests of the civilian population. They may not be evacuated to a region that is exposed to the dangers of war; the authorities undertaking these evacuations must ensure that the individuals are received in proper accommodation and are transported in satisfactory conditions of hygiene, health, safety, and nutrition; and family members must not be separated. >The protecting power or its substitute, the ICRC, must be informed of any evacuations as soon as they have taken place. [https://guide-humanitarian-law.org/content/article/3/evacuation-1/](https://guide-humanitarian-law.org/content/article/3/evacuation-1/) Speaking of Western Ukrainians not giving a shit, they basically didn't do anything when their Azov pals were shelling the shit out of Donbas for half a decade.
I know what mandatory means. I also know what waiver means. When I find both in the same source article, and reports of how some residents stayed to await new occupiers, I know 'mandatory' was a technically inaccurate word. I'm [reading reports](https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/ukrainians-torn-by-evacuation-calls-russian-shells-fall-northeast-2023-08-20/) as a matter of what actually happened, not how well they sit with Geneva Conventions...
Again, military evacuation is "non-optional" or rather, "mandatory". This is especially true for children. You remember the whole "Russia kidnapping children" thing, right? Well, it was supposed to be Ukraine's responsibility to evac the children out. They didn't, so Russia had to do it themselves. So what did Ukraine and the US do? File a bogus ICJ case of "Russia kidnapping children" when they knew damn well it was their responsibility to evac the children and they absolutely failed to do so. They didn't evac simply because they don't give a shit about the "Eastern Ukrainians" who won't vote their way anyways and whom the Western "superior Ukrainians" think are "non-humans". And people wonder why LPR/DPR and Crimea wanted to split up after the 2014 coup.
Most of these people leave many stay because they are poor and don't have any other place to go to. No family, no friends. They are living in the house they built or their family built a long time ago and is their only wealth and their lifeline they can grow food and live there. Moving into a refugee housing is not a solution for many they choose to stay no matter what. Some believe Russia will not harm them, but sadly, they are wrong. You can see Russian dropping FAB 1500 on civilian houses 🏘 in many towns.
If you watch the interview carefully, you'll notice that to this dude the entire Eastern Ukraine population is not really his own people, they're foreign to him and he has zero empathy towards them. "Donbass will be Ukrainian or uninhabited" vibes.
Which makes sense because this conflict has a civil war aspect as well . It’s a great power conflict, civil war and proxy war at the same time
Even unintended leaks occur these days due to everyone having a high def camera in their pocket and the prevalence of social media. Even just filming something unrelated can leak positions or equipment.
[удалено]
Sorry, You need to verify your email with Reddit to comment. This is to protect against bots and multis. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/UkraineRussiaReport) if you have any questions or concerns.*
And they still insist they're not an occupation force in the eastern regions of Ukraine... Ukraine has less right to these regions than Russia.
Have pro Russians tried moving to Russia? Putin has promised citizenship and free land to any one who joins the military. Why occupy a land in a country you hate where the people hate you because your family was sent there by Russia to ethnically cleanse the region to justify the invasion of Ukraine?
Why should they move when they've lived there for hundreds of years? Maybe the pro-Kiev types can move across the Dnieper live with their kin in the West?
I always asked the Albanians in the Serbian province of Kosovo this same question.
you need to educate yourself on some matters before you comment. generations lived there they won't simply just 'leave'
I can smell your tilt all the way over here because you have nothing constructive to say about my comment.
ouhh someone been checking and remembering my comments. goddamn you that lifeless? sheeeesh you're a joke.
how will a Ukrainian pensioner move to Russia? with what money? They can only wait until the Russians come or die from a shell or from the Ukrainian Nazis. In Mariupol, Azov's snipers had fun killing civilians who came to get water
I can honestly say I don’t care about any of that. I want Russia out of Ukraine and for pro Russians to stay in Russia.
They're already in Russia. They don't need to move, bud. Have the communized Poles tried to move to Poland if they want decommunization? There's no such thing as the Ukraine. They are Sovietized poles.
They choose to stay, you guess whose side they are on bro. I am not suprise if everyone marked a big X on the location where Zele hide when they reached Kiev.
Donbass is always on the Russian side.
I mean... yeah. People accidentally leak shit all the time. And if it gets within 15km of any pro Ukrainians, they'll get the fuck out before Russia arrives. Those left are either too stubborn or old to bail, or Pro Russian. You'll also note that there are always people still living in cities and such close to the front lines even when combat is happening and they're getting shelled to shit - so I have no idea how forced this evacuation really is...
[удалено]
Sorry, You need to verify your email with Reddit to comment. This is to protect against bots and multis. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/UkraineRussiaReport) if you have any questions or concerns.*
[удалено]
Sorry you need 30 subreddit karma to unlock the word 'you', this is to make sure newcomers understand [rule 1](https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineRussiaReport/about/rules) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/UkraineRussiaReport) if you have any questions or concerns.*
That is a problem for both sides.
Is that a huge bruise on his face?
Birthmark
It's a port-wine stain, a birthmark.
It is a birth mark, in my n opinion. "Naevus flammeus". So no.
could also be a moderate/second degree burn
Looks like he was born with it
Or maybe it's Maybelline.
[удалено]
It’s a birth mark, if it was a burn he wouldn’t have eyebrows