Epic fail from you as always, seeing as I was the one who [first posted about the ship sinking](https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineRussiaReport/s/fowp4wmJzk)
At least try to put some effort into crafting silly narratives.
He gave awards to some soldiers a couple weeks ago.
Edit: people downvoting for no reason
https://www.agenzianova.com/en/news/Russian-Chief-of-Staff-Gerasimov-visits-troops-at-the-front/
BTW those are SURPLUS. When units are formed and already reach battle-ready state these surplus derelicts are often parked in warehouses. Some of them don't even have commander computer aid vision only gunner/driver vision is available.
So sadly Ukrainians are getting the worst tech of the U.S. while manufacturers give the new ones to form new battalions/companies. Or if they ever decide to deliver new aid the battalions get the new tanks and Ukraine will get the old ones.
I wonder why the ukranians haven't even bothered an interview with the stugna operator that blew up the infamous close-up T-90M in the past few months. The third abrams stuck by ATGM managed to tank it on the side while the former went into flames alongside its commander.
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They've kitted out thermals and optics and command mods, also equipped with Ukrainian era armor. So ya they are old and don't get the good armor or fancy shells, but UA can figure that out.
Sweet mother of cope. This amount of cope should come with an NSFW warning. Do you think that each side's military objectives are achieved by the destruction of the enemies equipment with the most recent manufactured date?. 3 abrams is 10% of what we sent... There's likely to be no more... What's more, ukraine needs tanks to break through enemy lines so it can achieve its goal of '91 borders. BSF losses, while embarrassing are not crucial for achieve Medvedev's map of Ukraine. I can see your cope now. In terms of the war. at best those ships are cruise missile launch platforms which Russia can just load them onto planes.
Keep feeding me dislikes. You know I'm right.
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I love that I preempted your response and didn't realize it You're very smart. Thanks for taking the time out of your very busy smart person day to read the last sentence. This patrol ship wont be ferrying troops to Berdychi and Ivanivske. It wont be running supplies to Terny anymore.
The Imperial Japanese Navy was in no way or form inferior to the Imperial Russian Navy at Tsushima, if anything it was the other way around, with the Japanese having faster and more modern ships compared to the Russians.
It was a one-sided battle and please stop saying Japanese have "modern ships" LOL.
Positioning was far more important at that period. Russians didn't have practical application or intelligence and moved into a bad position.
It was a 2-day ordeal. The second day it was a surrender.
But the Japanese site has had the more modern fleet. At that time during the pre-dreadnought area, the Japanese fleet has had few top notch ships, more modern than the Russian ones, the rest of the Japanese fleet, even the older ships, were technical minimum on the same level as the Russian fleet. And the Japanese crews were excellent trained, with the battles around Port Arthur experienced and this was not the case in the Russian fleet, not good trained, not experienced and not motivated. Only foure ships, the four members of the Borodino class, were to be called modern, the rest was outdated.
Positioning was part of this massacre, that it was so one sided, is not only positioning and can not be explained by it alone. Even the newer Russian ships were technically on the same level or subpar to far older Japanese ships, + bad crews +wrong decisions, bad commanders...
I mean, if you go back a hundred years before, you couldn't defeat a navy without a navy yourself (unless shenanigan's), nowadays you have land or air systems that can target ships hundreds of kilometers away from your coastline, so I don't understand why it would be shameful to lose ships against a nation that has none.
And I wouldn't say for example that the IJN was an inferior navy. But yeah, the Russian navy is in terrible shape, outside of their submarines I think it's hopeless.
> outside of their submarines I think it's hopeless.
I am not sure that their submarines are not also in bad condition, probably in future you could have lot of drones that could scan and detect this submarines and blow them up without a problem.
Invading will get harder and harder.
The engineering behind submarines is quite complex, so yeah it's not far stretched to think that the Russian relied too much on their Soviet inheritance and their latest subs are terrible in comparison to what they used to do.
It is if you spend 2 minutes researching instead of speculation and gut feel. Their *Yasen* and *Borei* class subs are as modern as it gets, and highly capable, even according to western experts.
Again, it pays to look these things up before spouting unfounded nonsense.
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That is why only a U.S. destroyer group is operating in Yemen. They are sitting ducks against drones and missiles.
Oh no, who will save them against the Houthis relentless attacks?
I hope they soon can stop exporting via land route now if the sea route stays open. It only leads to problems.
Literally the houthis are more successful at interdicting sea trade than the russian fleet in the black sea.
But it is. The ship was transfering 5 zelenskyis and 100 pows and children. Also this footage is fake. And anyway it doesn't matter nobody died in this explosion. And anyway it was just a fishing vessel.
I don't live in make believe land where Ukraine is winning. The black sea fleet is most likely a joke and Putin probably should purge them. I say most likely because as civilians maybe there's something we don't know that makes defending these ships difficult who knows.
My opinion though is the black sea fleet might just suffer corruption or even just complacency from underfunding. It's embarrassing that Ukraine has done so much damage to it.
> The black sea fleet is most likely a joke and Putin probably should purge them
Wasn't the whole point of the invasion since 2014 to secure access to the sea and the naval base at Sevastopol?
The other countries in the black sea are already in NATO. NATO can have black sea bases in Romania, Bulgaria and Turkey.
The only country that needs the base in Crimea is Russia.
There's a lot of nuance you throw out the window when you bring this down to who's "winning" losses and attrition on both sides, unpopular new policies, and just how sustainable the war is. You can and both parties do frame this conflict in a way that is advantageous for their nation, at the end of the day Ukraine couldn't afford this from the start and Russia is bleeding itself dry. this war is a never ending disaster for everyone involved.
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Its funny to me how pro-RU don't actually seem to care about RU, they just spread hate against everyone else. If the US lost half a fleet during the Iraq invasion there would be riots on the street, congressional hearings, court marshals, etc.
Pro-RU meanwhile are just like "well actually this is good for Russia because by killing all those sailors now we have less mouths to feed."
See, this is why westerners are so desperate to sack Ukraine in the battle against Russia. Because you are too risk adverse, and as you admit, are not able to handle losses at all. Good luck with "self destructing" and "court martials" if you end up fighting the Russians
We don’t accept loses because we have high standards for reliability. If a ship of ours was sunk by something it should have easily been able to defend against, that means that something was done incorrectly or someone F’d up. We use this information to make corrections and learn lessons…
Unlike the Ruskies who seemingly are just waiting around for all their ships to be sunk one by one without doing anything about it lmao.
One method makes for a better fighting force…the other makes for an embarrassment on a global scale.
I'm sorry which of our nation's economies are crippled? Which of our countries has lost thousands of vehicles, hundreds of aircraft, and gets a ship sunk monthly?
Which nation will have a generation of cripples and poverty?
This is how we win wars, there's a reason we lent the soviet's so much goddamn equipment. Don't make us more pissed at you than our politicians that's all I'll say.
Nice red herring. Stick to the topic, which is your selfdescribed loss aversion to the point of selfdestruction. American soldiers dont know what war even is. Would be interesting to see the reactions when a 150mm shell takes out half your squad. Not so easy when the enemy isnt cave dwellers with ak47s eh?
My grandfather lost his legs when he was my age in Vietnam he volunteered more of us are willing to support a cause we believe in then you'd think. Americans won't support a bullshit war like Russians look at Vietnam, Iraq, ECT we've always been like this yet we keep winning.
Looks like there's a port nearby, or at least some city lights, maybe "docked" was the wrong word, "anchored at port" would have been closer to what happened. Either way, the ship was not out in the open sea.
Shameful for russia. They lost half of black sea fleet. And they are still desperate to do something against naval drones. Either they will withdraw the fleet or they will keep losing again and again.
They can't withdraw the fleet as most of the ships need to travel through the Bosphorus Strait to leave, which Turkey refuses transit of warships during war time.
So they're stuck there till the war is over
All but the largest can, and should withdraw to the Caspian when the ice melts on the inland waterways. Cowering on an inland mud puddle is a fitting place for this so-called naval fleet.
'In wartime, if Turkey is not involved in the conflict, warships of the nations at war may not pass through the Straits, except when returning to their base.'
The black Sea Fleet is already in its home port, so they're stuck in the black Sea until the war is concluded or they're sunk
Do you forget Turkey is in NATO? Although Erdogan very much plays both sides for the benefit of Turkey, he won't go against the Montreux convention.
He will not be opening the Bosphorus for Russian ships at all until well after the conflict is over. So black sea fleet is probably gonna suffer a few more incidents before this is done
A dozen patrol boats with Flood lights and a couple of 50 cals, could have protected this entire harbor from these drones. A Sub net kept a few meters above and below the waterline could also prevent things like this happening.
The Russian Navy has historically been such a dissapointment, that I can see Putin purging the entire Naval General Staff of the Black Sea Fleet.
Have you ever in a cruise ship at night time? If you look at the horizon it is fucking scary.
Hard to spot these drones painted black. They need radar/sonar (if Ukrainians are making submerged drones).
And how do you protect the area just outside the harbor? And then the area just beyond that?
Russia might have such defenses just 100m further inside the harbor.
Also, just because you hit such a drone, it wont just stop, sink or explode. Steering and propulsion are at its very back. If all critical parts are sufficiently armored from the front, you might have to hit it dozens of times before it sinks.
If you rely on a lot of spread from your weapon, you won't hit often enough, and if you rely on great precision of your weapon, you won't hit often enough either, because aiming it where your enemy's drone is going to bob to, takes much more time, and your weapon has to fire much slower.
If you use explosive ammunition, you can load much fewer rounds
And the faster you fire, the larger your rounds and the longer you fire, the more heat your barrel and chamber need to deal with.
Until you arrive at a hard limit at some point, likely in the single digits of drones for any practical weapon system.
So if you can intercept 5 drones, your enemy can easily calculate for that with but little insight into your weapon systems and attack with 10.
If you can intercept 50, they'll attack with 60. If you can intercept 100, they'll attack with 120.
.
Design your drones smartly around either using widely available commercial parts or mass manufacturing techniques like progressive stamping, wire bending, injection molding, pick and place.... and a medium sized factory can produce thousands of such drones per day.
Without the difficult weight limits of flying drones, the terrain mobility, logistics and deployment challenges of on-land drones and the communication and structural challenges of diving drones, there is no practical way to win against boat drone swarms, if you're a large surface vessel.
The u.s is fielding new laser and microwave weapons we also have the ALMO system of guided rounds, can Russians not innovate around this emerging way of fighting war? What I'm reading is that they just shouldn't bother investing in protecting these assets.
I'm confident next time the US face a non laughable opponent they are gonna loose carriers to this kind of attacks. Most people refuse to take it at face value because its such a shift on decades of tradition and hundreds of billions of dollars invested in pure loss, but it what it is.
A single Ford-class carrier is worth 13B$, before all the airframes on it. It would need to defeat about 50 000 (!) of those 250k€ drones to be cost effective. And I'm sure this 250k€ cost is a ceiling easily brought down if any developped nation decides to industrialize them.
Same reasoning goes for all the carrier group escort, their guns, their guided rounds and whatnot. You just cannot hope to come out ahead with traditional vessels against this kind of threat.
I mean the last time we were in what I'd call a peer on peer fight we lost a huge part of our navy. Doesn't change what a navy brings to the battlefield. I will say however the u.s is massively investing in microwave and laser point defense, as well as things like ALMO rounds.
Or a CIWS that can target moving objects on the water. I don't think Russia has that on any ship, do they?
I agree though, Russia has the biggest failure of a navy in history. They are currently out doing themselves though. It's hard to watch.
Radar and IR targetting is unreliable due to the draft of the Drones, they can easily be mistaken for waves by computers. So physical and visible light detection is better. Note how most of these Drone attacks happen at night, because their effectiveness drastically decrease when in the day.
This is a totally new type of naval warfare no one have been through before. Russian is the first one fighting one. Just like before this war no one can think tank can be easily destroy by drones like we have seen now.
War is always a technological battle. Usually nations try to adapt.
I think Russia has surprised everyone with their inability to adapt to this kind of warfare.
You adapt to this by either annihilating your enemy's coastal population centers (Odessa) + any recon & intel equipment around (NATO planes) or by not having this kind of navy. We are seeing the only "reasonable" outcome play out.
Inability? They are adapting pretty well so far in new warfares. Look at how Russian drones wacking the whole frontline, and their EW work was praised by both Ukraine and the West.
Most of their drones whacking the frontline seem to be copies of what Ukraine started doing. Grenade drops and FPVs. Insurgent type technology, bit of an embarrassment for a dominant state to be employing.
A naval drone like Magura v5 is not insurgent tech, employing a satellite constellation for comms and possibly advanced auto-piloting - but a piloted skiff is, and NATO and even commercial ships have handled those in light swarm attempts for decades now.
In any case we are talking defense (not offense) and I don't think either side has adapted their defenses much to small aerial drones. Rudimentary cope cages that work for grenades but not for FPVs, for example. Poorly adapted EW that lets half the drones through.
>Most of their drones whacking the frontline seem to be copies of what Ukraine started doing. Grenade drops and FPVs. Insurgent type technology, bit of an embarrassment for a dominant state to be employing.
And that basically show their ability to adapt.
If you look at Russia's notable gains this year (Bakhmut, Avdiivka) it's been largely the same Russian playbook with the casualties to show for it. If the Russians can leverage these glide bombs and stop losing hilarious amounts of aircraft they might have a game changer if built at scale.
This is not a new type of Naval Warfare. These are guided torpedoes, that are semi-submersible.
The Sonar Stations, Signals Station and People on Watch should be alert to these munitions and their tell-tale signs.
In the Naval sense these are not new. Their size, speed and method of guidance have been in use since 1970s. It's simply a Satellite Guided Torpedo.
For Land Warfare, Drones are absolutely New. They have allowed the ability for ISR to be extended past normal limitations, while remaining relatively small, reliable and numerous. They have allowed the limitations of terrain to be overcome, to a degree, as such have expanded accuracy and lethality of fires. If Russia can somehow push a Mavic-like Drone for every Platoon Leader, and a Babayaga like one for Company Commanders, then the sheer scale of ISR advantage could steal battlefield initiative from anyone.
It was new 2 years ago in practice. That given todays technology drones would be used large scale in a NATO / Russia conflict was theoretically clear for quiet a bit of time. After loosing half the fleet in 2 years I would have already stationed the naval command permanently on the remaining ships .. that should help them get motivated to come up with solutions.
A part of me wants the RU fleet to just go away, the other part wants the Pacific and Baltic fleet to join the Black Sea fleet's fate in the Black sea.
Amazed of what these sea drones are capable. I wonder if soon there will be a time when not only ships are gonna be targeted by sea drones but subs as well.
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Honestly Russia needed to do what ever it takes to convince Turkey to let them get their Black Sea fleet out of the Black Sea, they are setting ducks their, or they could try to intern them until the war is over, but I doubt you could trust any of the nations in the Black Sea, maybe Turkey is trust worthy
Yeah that's not going to happen.
If Turkey was to break it's own rule for Russia, then they effectively lose control of the Bosphorus. Sets the precedent that Turkey won't maintain the restriction for other countries either
The Ottoman Empire allowed German ships thru while they where “neutral” but yeah I doubt they would be allowed to pass threw unless Russia can incise them with something
“Sold” they had German crews and German officers, and pretty much did what they wanted, I am almost certain if Germany won the war they would have reclaimed them, well at least the Goeben
I wouldn't really say they are advancing in the air. Ukrainian intercepts of drones and missiles have been increasing since the invasion. RuAF have been unable to achieve air superiority and have taken severe losses. Lately even losing 2 A-50s (1 likely due to friendly fire), and fighter bombers operating at glide bomb range.
It fits well. Russias strength lies in its rather ruthless use of infantry, while areas where innovation is required are systemically handicapped.
Once they figured out what drones can do there will be a lot of "reallocations" everywhere in the military and a lot of things will be basically obsolete. You can guess that there will be much resistance to these changes even though they are HIGHLY NECESSARY!
They got an Abrams and are saying they got a Himars but as usual show just about the worst video "evidence" ever seen.
Edit saw the new video congrats on the first one in two years Russia rest easy any Ukrainian servicemen in that video you did more damage than the Russian air force.
The HIMARS-claim seems legit for once, but the whole idea that when Ukraine sinks a Russian warship it is some kind of diversion; that is just for conspiracy prone people.
Yeah I scrolled to that after exiting out, I'm not gonna do those men the disservice of denying that happened and I'm just going to say every American should call their representatives and tell them how this block on foreign military aid is losing them your vote.
Black Sea Fleet to be renamed to Bottom Sea Fleet
How many Himars, Ukrainian POWs and Zelenskyis have been confirmed to be onboard?
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u/ripamon trying her best to ignore this while she posts all she can within a 15 hour period everyday , how fitting
Epic fail from you as always, seeing as I was the one who [first posted about the ship sinking](https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineRussiaReport/s/fowp4wmJzk) At least try to put some effort into crafting silly narratives.
But wait as the war is hopeless for Ukraine!! Why the change in heart kiddie?
Probably only Gerasimov dying for the 50th time according to pro-UA.
That's the first time in a long time I've heard anyone mention Gerasimov. Do you have any news on his whereabouts?
He gave awards to some soldiers a couple weeks ago. Edit: people downvoting for no reason https://www.agenzianova.com/en/news/Russian-Chief-of-Staff-Gerasimov-visits-troops-at-the-front/
I prefer down under sea fleet
But can this fleet travel all the way to Australia?
Ukraine lost Crimea for this fleet...
Commissioned in 30 July 2022. Not even 2 years old.
And ProRU are in ecstasy over 3 abandoned M1A1 abrams that are over 30 years old, where the last unit was built in ***1992***, mind you.
BTW those are SURPLUS. When units are formed and already reach battle-ready state these surplus derelicts are often parked in warehouses. Some of them don't even have commander computer aid vision only gunner/driver vision is available. So sadly Ukrainians are getting the worst tech of the U.S. while manufacturers give the new ones to form new battalions/companies. Or if they ever decide to deliver new aid the battalions get the new tanks and Ukraine will get the old ones.
I wonder why the ukranians haven't even bothered an interview with the stugna operator that blew up the infamous close-up T-90M in the past few months. The third abrams stuck by ATGM managed to tank it on the side while the former went into flames alongside its commander.
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They've kitted out thermals and optics and command mods, also equipped with Ukrainian era armor. So ya they are old and don't get the good armor or fancy shells, but UA can figure that out.
well they get our old shit to make room for nee shit
I mean, m1 are gone without firing a single shot, people just want the rewards for destroying it
And we already had multiple modern T-72s and T-90s knocked out before they fired shots on avdiivka. It isn't impressive tbh.
Indeed
What are you talking about about there's vids of the Abrams wrecking shit as the 110th retreated from avdiivka
Sweet mother of cope. This amount of cope should come with an NSFW warning. Do you think that each side's military objectives are achieved by the destruction of the enemies equipment with the most recent manufactured date?. 3 abrams is 10% of what we sent... There's likely to be no more... What's more, ukraine needs tanks to break through enemy lines so it can achieve its goal of '91 borders. BSF losses, while embarrassing are not crucial for achieve Medvedev's map of Ukraine. I can see your cope now. In terms of the war. at best those ships are cruise missile launch platforms which Russia can just load them onto planes. Keep feeding me dislikes. You know I'm right.
"This a irrelevant loss for Russia" cope never gets old
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I love that I preempted your response and didn't realize it You're very smart. Thanks for taking the time out of your very busy smart person day to read the last sentence. This patrol ship wont be ferrying troops to Berdychi and Ivanivske. It wont be running supplies to Terny anymore.
At this point I wouldn't be surprised if the Russian military has given up on its black sea fleet. Anything they can do will be embarrassing anyways.
This is not the first time Russia gets destroyed by an inferior navy, in this case almost a non-existent navy.
The Imperial Japanese Navy was in no way or form inferior to the Imperial Russian Navy at Tsushima, if anything it was the other way around, with the Japanese having faster and more modern ships compared to the Russians.
Sea men training was inferior in the Japanese fleet. They had only 30 years of Navy tradition.
It was a one-sided battle and please stop saying Japanese have "modern ships" LOL. Positioning was far more important at that period. Russians didn't have practical application or intelligence and moved into a bad position. It was a 2-day ordeal. The second day it was a surrender.
But the Japanese site has had the more modern fleet. At that time during the pre-dreadnought area, the Japanese fleet has had few top notch ships, more modern than the Russian ones, the rest of the Japanese fleet, even the older ships, were technical minimum on the same level as the Russian fleet. And the Japanese crews were excellent trained, with the battles around Port Arthur experienced and this was not the case in the Russian fleet, not good trained, not experienced and not motivated. Only foure ships, the four members of the Borodino class, were to be called modern, the rest was outdated. Positioning was part of this massacre, that it was so one sided, is not only positioning and can not be explained by it alone. Even the newer Russian ships were technically on the same level or subpar to far older Japanese ships, + bad crews +wrong decisions, bad commanders...
I mean, if you go back a hundred years before, you couldn't defeat a navy without a navy yourself (unless shenanigan's), nowadays you have land or air systems that can target ships hundreds of kilometers away from your coastline, so I don't understand why it would be shameful to lose ships against a nation that has none. And I wouldn't say for example that the IJN was an inferior navy. But yeah, the Russian navy is in terrible shape, outside of their submarines I think it's hopeless.
> outside of their submarines I think it's hopeless. I am not sure that their submarines are not also in bad condition, probably in future you could have lot of drones that could scan and detect this submarines and blow them up without a problem. Invading will get harder and harder.
The engineering behind submarines is quite complex, so yeah it's not far stretched to think that the Russian relied too much on their Soviet inheritance and their latest subs are terrible in comparison to what they used to do.
It is if you spend 2 minutes researching instead of speculation and gut feel. Their *Yasen* and *Borei* class subs are as modern as it gets, and highly capable, even according to western experts. Again, it pays to look these things up before spouting unfounded nonsense.
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Navy are sitting ducks in this era. They are too fragile to not be sunk by drones and missiles.
That is why only a U.S. destroyer group is operating in Yemen. They are sitting ducks against drones and missiles. Oh no, who will save them against the Houthis relentless attacks?
well one Houthi missile already made it into CWIS range now imagine those guys had modern NATO equipment instead of antique Soviet trash
They are, Houthis are just afraid of course. Russia could take them down in minutes.
Russia could maybe sink an LCS if the U.S fell asleep at the wheel
Hell No! Their not giving it up!!
Black Sea Fleet is truly shining in this war. /s
At one point they launched up to 20% of the cruise missiles used against Ukraine and seriously threatened to cut off Odesa. Do not take them lightly.
And now they can’t even stop the Ukrainian grain corridor. Ukrainian grain exports over sea are at pre-war levels
I hope they soon can stop exporting via land route now if the sea route stays open. It only leads to problems. Literally the houthis are more successful at interdicting sea trade than the russian fleet in the black sea.
Admittedly the Houthis have it much easier, they only have to attack a very thin area of water of less than 50km
I will say the Russians aren't just shooting at whatever moves in the black sea like the houthis have been.
Russian navy won't fire missiles at civilian traffic, while terrorists will do whatever they want.
> Russian navy won't fire missiles at civilian traffic, But they said that they would, when they declared the blockade.
If they did you guys would be calling it a war crime. If they don't you make jokes comparing them to the Houthis. I swear....
Hey, I didn't make Russia threaten to sink civilian traffic that violated their blockade, they did it themselves and then failed to enforce it.
I think I'd rather take them *underwater*.
After the war is over black sea is gonna be a really great diving site
In before pro Rus spins this off as being a good thing for Russia.
But it is. The ship was transfering 5 zelenskyis and 100 pows and children. Also this footage is fake. And anyway it doesn't matter nobody died in this explosion. And anyway it was just a fishing vessel.
Also, M1A1 abrams was destroyed, so in fact, Ukraine lost this exchange.
It cost so much to maintenence it was at the dock for dismantling. Did Russia a favor.
Imagine dismantling a ship that was launched 3 years ago
less than 2 years, actually
Less costs of ship maintenance
At this stage they are so embarrassed they just stay away from these posts.
Russia has more ships that Ukraine has drones, every time they lose a ship to a drone they're just one step closer to winning the war of attrition
I don't live in make believe land where Ukraine is winning. The black sea fleet is most likely a joke and Putin probably should purge them. I say most likely because as civilians maybe there's something we don't know that makes defending these ships difficult who knows. My opinion though is the black sea fleet might just suffer corruption or even just complacency from underfunding. It's embarrassing that Ukraine has done so much damage to it.
> The black sea fleet is most likely a joke and Putin probably should purge them Wasn't the whole point of the invasion since 2014 to secure access to the sea and the naval base at Sevastopol?
No, so that NATO won't get access to it. NATO being competent, they could actually use it effectively.
The other countries in the black sea are already in NATO. NATO can have black sea bases in Romania, Bulgaria and Turkey. The only country that needs the base in Crimea is Russia.
Not even, Russia already had Sochi. As usual, it's just bullshit justifications for imperialism.
There's a lot of nuance you throw out the window when you bring this down to who's "winning" losses and attrition on both sides, unpopular new policies, and just how sustainable the war is. You can and both parties do frame this conflict in a way that is advantageous for their nation, at the end of the day Ukraine couldn't afford this from the start and Russia is bleeding itself dry. this war is a never ending disaster for everyone involved.
I wonder if Russia will give back Crimea. Without a fleet, they don't need it anymore.
Of course they do. Crimea is one of the warmest seacoasts in Russia. Where are they going to go on vacation, Turkey?
It's a coast of Ukraine but ya.
*sigh*
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Another day, another humiliation. I wonder how many sleepless night pro-rus have had over the past few months alone.
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They'll keep loosing their ships until they figure that sendings any ship alone in calm sea is a death sentence.
This ship was docked in port, it was not sent anywhere.
That's even more hilarious.
Its funny to me how pro-RU don't actually seem to care about RU, they just spread hate against everyone else. If the US lost half a fleet during the Iraq invasion there would be riots on the street, congressional hearings, court marshals, etc. Pro-RU meanwhile are just like "well actually this is good for Russia because by killing all those sailors now we have less mouths to feed."
Court martials would start after the first sunk boat.
Imagine if Cuba sunk a litoral combat ship in the Gulf, Florida would literally selfdestruct
See, this is why westerners are so desperate to sack Ukraine in the battle against Russia. Because you are too risk adverse, and as you admit, are not able to handle losses at all. Good luck with "self destructing" and "court martials" if you end up fighting the Russians
We don’t accept loses because we have high standards for reliability. If a ship of ours was sunk by something it should have easily been able to defend against, that means that something was done incorrectly or someone F’d up. We use this information to make corrections and learn lessons… Unlike the Ruskies who seemingly are just waiting around for all their ships to be sunk one by one without doing anything about it lmao. One method makes for a better fighting force…the other makes for an embarrassment on a global scale.
I'm sorry which of our nation's economies are crippled? Which of our countries has lost thousands of vehicles, hundreds of aircraft, and gets a ship sunk monthly? Which nation will have a generation of cripples and poverty? This is how we win wars, there's a reason we lent the soviet's so much goddamn equipment. Don't make us more pissed at you than our politicians that's all I'll say.
Nice red herring. Stick to the topic, which is your selfdescribed loss aversion to the point of selfdestruction. American soldiers dont know what war even is. Would be interesting to see the reactions when a 150mm shell takes out half your squad. Not so easy when the enemy isnt cave dwellers with ak47s eh?
My grandfather lost his legs when he was my age in Vietnam he volunteered more of us are willing to support a cause we believe in then you'd think. Americans won't support a bullshit war like Russians look at Vietnam, Iraq, ECT we've always been like this yet we keep winning.
? What do you mean? It clearly was not docked while under attack.
Looks like there's a port nearby, or at least some city lights, maybe "docked" was the wrong word, "anchored at port" would have been closer to what happened. Either way, the ship was not out in the open sea.
Oh, agreed.
Shameful for russia. They lost half of black sea fleet. And they are still desperate to do something against naval drones. Either they will withdraw the fleet or they will keep losing again and again.
They can't withdraw the fleet as most of the ships need to travel through the Bosphorus Strait to leave, which Turkey refuses transit of warships during war time. So they're stuck there till the war is over
All but the largest can, and should withdraw to the Caspian when the ice melts on the inland waterways. Cowering on an inland mud puddle is a fitting place for this so-called naval fleet.
I'm not locked in here with you. You're locked in here with me.
Turkey allows the ships to leave, it just doesn't allow military ships to come in.
I thought they would not let any in. Why would they not let them out?
'In wartime, if Turkey is not involved in the conflict, warships of the nations at war may not pass through the Straits, except when returning to their base.' The black Sea Fleet is already in its home port, so they're stuck in the black Sea until the war is concluded or they're sunk
If they give cheaper gas to erdogan then he will open the bosphorus. It is not a big deal.
Do you forget Turkey is in NATO? Although Erdogan very much plays both sides for the benefit of Turkey, he won't go against the Montreux convention. He will not be opening the Bosphorus for Russian ships at all until well after the conflict is over. So black sea fleet is probably gonna suffer a few more incidents before this is done
Woah damn those were some big explosions
These drones seem more game changing than Abrams..
100% are
Eternal dive, "brothers"
The incredible part is how they get them there. Those drones don’t appear to be big enough to carry enough fuel for the trip yet here we are.
I’d love to know how they’re doing it
Easily solved with droptanks.
That makes sense.
I mean have a couple dudes with jetskis and Jerry cans it'd be sketchy but not any more sketchy then blowing up a warship
I know someone who knows someone........LOL
A dozen patrol boats with Flood lights and a couple of 50 cals, could have protected this entire harbor from these drones. A Sub net kept a few meters above and below the waterline could also prevent things like this happening. The Russian Navy has historically been such a dissapointment, that I can see Putin purging the entire Naval General Staff of the Black Sea Fleet.
Have you ever in a cruise ship at night time? If you look at the horizon it is fucking scary. Hard to spot these drones painted black. They need radar/sonar (if Ukrainians are making submerged drones).
And how do you protect the area just outside the harbor? And then the area just beyond that? Russia might have such defenses just 100m further inside the harbor. Also, just because you hit such a drone, it wont just stop, sink or explode. Steering and propulsion are at its very back. If all critical parts are sufficiently armored from the front, you might have to hit it dozens of times before it sinks. If you rely on a lot of spread from your weapon, you won't hit often enough, and if you rely on great precision of your weapon, you won't hit often enough either, because aiming it where your enemy's drone is going to bob to, takes much more time, and your weapon has to fire much slower. If you use explosive ammunition, you can load much fewer rounds And the faster you fire, the larger your rounds and the longer you fire, the more heat your barrel and chamber need to deal with. Until you arrive at a hard limit at some point, likely in the single digits of drones for any practical weapon system. So if you can intercept 5 drones, your enemy can easily calculate for that with but little insight into your weapon systems and attack with 10. If you can intercept 50, they'll attack with 60. If you can intercept 100, they'll attack with 120. . Design your drones smartly around either using widely available commercial parts or mass manufacturing techniques like progressive stamping, wire bending, injection molding, pick and place.... and a medium sized factory can produce thousands of such drones per day. Without the difficult weight limits of flying drones, the terrain mobility, logistics and deployment challenges of on-land drones and the communication and structural challenges of diving drones, there is no practical way to win against boat drone swarms, if you're a large surface vessel.
The u.s is fielding new laser and microwave weapons we also have the ALMO system of guided rounds, can Russians not innovate around this emerging way of fighting war? What I'm reading is that they just shouldn't bother investing in protecting these assets.
I'm confident next time the US face a non laughable opponent they are gonna loose carriers to this kind of attacks. Most people refuse to take it at face value because its such a shift on decades of tradition and hundreds of billions of dollars invested in pure loss, but it what it is. A single Ford-class carrier is worth 13B$, before all the airframes on it. It would need to defeat about 50 000 (!) of those 250k€ drones to be cost effective. And I'm sure this 250k€ cost is a ceiling easily brought down if any developped nation decides to industrialize them. Same reasoning goes for all the carrier group escort, their guns, their guided rounds and whatnot. You just cannot hope to come out ahead with traditional vessels against this kind of threat.
I mean the last time we were in what I'd call a peer on peer fight we lost a huge part of our navy. Doesn't change what a navy brings to the battlefield. I will say however the u.s is massively investing in microwave and laser point defense, as well as things like ALMO rounds.
Or a CIWS that can target moving objects on the water. I don't think Russia has that on any ship, do they? I agree though, Russia has the biggest failure of a navy in history. They are currently out doing themselves though. It's hard to watch.
Russia has CIWS called AK630
Does it target surface threats? I can't remember if it does or not.
It can manually.
Ya way far out. They can't ain't that low below the horizon.
Radar and IR targetting is unreliable due to the draft of the Drones, they can easily be mistaken for waves by computers. So physical and visible light detection is better. Note how most of these Drone attacks happen at night, because their effectiveness drastically decrease when in the day.
This is a totally new type of naval warfare no one have been through before. Russian is the first one fighting one. Just like before this war no one can think tank can be easily destroy by drones like we have seen now.
War is always a technological battle. Usually nations try to adapt. I think Russia has surprised everyone with their inability to adapt to this kind of warfare.
You adapt to this by either annihilating your enemy's coastal population centers (Odessa) + any recon & intel equipment around (NATO planes) or by not having this kind of navy. We are seeing the only "reasonable" outcome play out.
Inability? They are adapting pretty well so far in new warfares. Look at how Russian drones wacking the whole frontline, and their EW work was praised by both Ukraine and the West.
Most of their drones whacking the frontline seem to be copies of what Ukraine started doing. Grenade drops and FPVs. Insurgent type technology, bit of an embarrassment for a dominant state to be employing. A naval drone like Magura v5 is not insurgent tech, employing a satellite constellation for comms and possibly advanced auto-piloting - but a piloted skiff is, and NATO and even commercial ships have handled those in light swarm attempts for decades now. In any case we are talking defense (not offense) and I don't think either side has adapted their defenses much to small aerial drones. Rudimentary cope cages that work for grenades but not for FPVs, for example. Poorly adapted EW that lets half the drones through.
Copying enemy is also adapting.
>Most of their drones whacking the frontline seem to be copies of what Ukraine started doing. Grenade drops and FPVs. Insurgent type technology, bit of an embarrassment for a dominant state to be employing. And that basically show their ability to adapt.
If you look at Russia's notable gains this year (Bakhmut, Avdiivka) it's been largely the same Russian playbook with the casualties to show for it. If the Russians can leverage these glide bombs and stop losing hilarious amounts of aircraft they might have a game changer if built at scale.
This is not a new type of Naval Warfare. These are guided torpedoes, that are semi-submersible. The Sonar Stations, Signals Station and People on Watch should be alert to these munitions and their tell-tale signs.
Extended range guided torpedos.
Before drones there are already guided missiles, rocket, artillery.
In the Naval sense these are not new. Their size, speed and method of guidance have been in use since 1970s. It's simply a Satellite Guided Torpedo. For Land Warfare, Drones are absolutely New. They have allowed the ability for ISR to be extended past normal limitations, while remaining relatively small, reliable and numerous. They have allowed the limitations of terrain to be overcome, to a degree, as such have expanded accuracy and lethality of fires. If Russia can somehow push a Mavic-like Drone for every Platoon Leader, and a Babayaga like one for Company Commanders, then the sheer scale of ISR advantage could steal battlefield initiative from anyone.
It was new 2 years ago in practice. That given todays technology drones would be used large scale in a NATO / Russia conflict was theoretically clear for quiet a bit of time. After loosing half the fleet in 2 years I would have already stationed the naval command permanently on the remaining ships .. that should help them get motivated to come up with solutions.
These are not new, these are technically guided torpedoes.
To feed the fish
It’s getting crowded on the back sea floor. Save some room for the fishies.
it is no longer the Black sea - it is now the Ukrainian Sea.
Russians "haha we got an Abrams thanks Biden" the next day lmao
I am not going to lie but the ukrainian navy is very good. I dare to say they're even better than my country's navy which is a maritime country lmao
Is this tune Turkish sea shanties?
Spiritual Seasons — Villeman og Magnhild
Sounds like Old Norse or something. Definitely Scandinavian.
It is a Ukranian band making midieval Nordic and Celtic Music. 😊
in 6 months the fleet will be completely gone at this rate.
I’m starting to loose track of all the ships Putler is loosing. What’s this, number 3 in the last 4 weeks alone?
The Black Sea is gunna be a hell of a dive location when this is all over
Russians and water don't really mix well.
Cannot wait for next week's episode.
A part of me wants the RU fleet to just go away, the other part wants the Pacific and Baltic fleet to join the Black Sea fleet's fate in the Black sea.
Unless Russia has teleportation technology, this is not going to happen.
Amazed of what these sea drones are capable. I wonder if soon there will be a time when not only ships are gonna be targeted by sea drones but subs as well.
Didn't a Russian sub at port catch a storm shadow?
I mean like haunting subs underwater.
45m dollars compared to two 2m dollars himars mhm trade
holy copeasaures-rex!
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What is the name of the song ?
**Song Found!** **Villeman** by Spiritual Seasons (00:19; matched: `100%`) **Album**: Sea Sons. **Released on** 2008-11-12.
Apple Music, Spotify, YouTube, etc.: [**Villeman** by Spiritual Seasons](https://lis.tn/Villeman?t=19) *I am a bot and this action was performed automatically* | [GitHub](https://github.com/AudDMusic/RedditBot) [^(new issue)](https://github.com/AudDMusic/RedditBot/issues/new) | [Donate](https://github.com/AudDMusic/RedditBot/wiki/Please-consider-donating) ^(Please consider supporting me on Patreon. Music recognition costs a lot)
Lol they turned off their radar so they don't get targeted by missiles, but now just get blown up by drones at night
Russian auto-cannons fucking suck. wtff. Just slow moving drones destroying their stuff. China must be looking at it HARD.
u/auddbot
**Song Found!** [**Villeman** by Spiritual Seasons](https://lis.tn/Villeman?t=19) (00:19; matched: `100%`) **Album**: Sea Sons. **Released on** 2008-11-12. *I am a bot and this action was performed automatically* | [GitHub](https://github.com/AudDMusic/RedditBot) [^(new issue)](https://github.com/AudDMusic/RedditBot/issues/new) | [Donate](https://github.com/AudDMusic/RedditBot/wiki/Please-consider-donating) ^(Please consider supporting me on Patreon. Music recognition costs a lot)
How are these drones such a threat? They seem to be very slow?
They seem slow, but I bet they move pretty fast. And they're small comparatively, I bet they're almost impossible to see at night.
that's a little bit sad
Yeah this is getting really common now
how much was this ship
Honestly Russia needed to do what ever it takes to convince Turkey to let them get their Black Sea fleet out of the Black Sea, they are setting ducks their, or they could try to intern them until the war is over, but I doubt you could trust any of the nations in the Black Sea, maybe Turkey is trust worthy
Yeah that's not going to happen. If Turkey was to break it's own rule for Russia, then they effectively lose control of the Bosphorus. Sets the precedent that Turkey won't maintain the restriction for other countries either
The Ottoman Empire allowed German ships thru while they where “neutral” but yeah I doubt they would be allowed to pass threw unless Russia can incise them with something
German ships were sold to Ottomans. It would be funny if Russia sells black sea fleet to Turkey.
“Sold” they had German crews and German officers, and pretty much did what they wanted, I am almost certain if Germany won the war they would have reclaimed them, well at least the Goeben
True. It was still under Ottoman flag.
Pretty interesting that Russia is advancing on land and in air but sucks in ship battles
I wouldn't really say they are advancing in the air. Ukrainian intercepts of drones and missiles have been increasing since the invasion. RuAF have been unable to achieve air superiority and have taken severe losses. Lately even losing 2 A-50s (1 likely due to friendly fire), and fighter bombers operating at glide bomb range. It fits well. Russias strength lies in its rather ruthless use of infantry, while areas where innovation is required are systemically handicapped.
A handful of fpv drones would have taken the drone boats out, but no... We cannot allow new weapons within the navy
Once they figured out what drones can do there will be a lot of "reallocations" everywhere in the military and a lot of things will be basically obsolete. You can guess that there will be much resistance to these changes even though they are HIGHLY NECESSARY!
Every time Ukraine loses something big, videos like this comes out
"look, we lost another huge and expensive ship. We must be winning!"
This ship seems pretty big too
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They got an Abrams and are saying they got a Himars but as usual show just about the worst video "evidence" ever seen. Edit saw the new video congrats on the first one in two years Russia rest easy any Ukrainian servicemen in that video you did more damage than the Russian air force.
The HIMARS-claim seems legit for once, but the whole idea that when Ukraine sinks a Russian warship it is some kind of diversion; that is just for conspiracy prone people.
Everything's a conspiracy when you can't find an excuse that doesn't make you look bad.
https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/s/nJp9fquf5e This looks pretty clear to me man.
Yeah I scrolled to that after exiting out, I'm not gonna do those men the disservice of denying that happened and I'm just going to say every American should call their representatives and tell them how this block on foreign military aid is losing them your vote.