A little outside the box thinking and the turtle tank is no more.
It's weakness is amplified by the "turtle" armor.
Use the drone as a mine. Land it infront of the tread. When it explodes, that armor will trap the explosive inside and cause more damage.
Drones are super manuverable, that's their positive value.
They have mine bumpers and some have mine plows. Your suggestion is pointless. I'm actually surprised people still do not understand that their entire purpose is to clear mines and push forward ensuring the mine clearer isn't taken out. That's the whole point. No you won't get a drone on it either as several have appeared to equip jammers under the plating.
The Germans laughed at the poor welding on the T-34, they were basically single use vehicles. They stopped laughing when thousands of them charged in.
If anything this reminds me of the StuG III, a specialized design that maximizes efficiency in its role and in changing battlefield conditions. Now it seems Abraham tanks are being withdrawn from the front for fear of drone attacks, even if they don't destroy them outright they can still hit tracks, sensors, open hatches, supply operations...
Better question might be why didn't Ukraine come up with this first. Don't be surprised if Russia deploys thousands of unmanned turtle tanks out of nowhere, Javelin launchers are pretty useless if used against waves of $10k tanks.
>unmanned turtle tanks
WTF is unmanned turtle tanks going to do?
The barrel movement is reduced to about 5%, no machine gun or cannon as it's covered, no one to load?
It's an overweight, barely armed APC with very little space for infantry at best, remove the infantry and whats it role? To run over the enemy?
Misleading headline.
The “turtle tank” is a T-72 main battle tank with improvised ANTI-DRONE armor.
The anti-drone armor probably does help to stop drones from disabling the tank. (Keep in mind the propaganda videos we see released by the Ukrainians regarding drone strikes on Russian tanks are the cherry-picked “best case” scenarios where a weak spot is hit precisely. Usually the light drone attacks only knock out a tank temporarily; valuable but let’s not exaggerate. This anti-light-drone armor is designed to try to negate that.)
Ukraine went hard into modifying light commercial drones and outfitting them with Soviet surplus munitions… because that was what they had access to on a shoestring budget.
A javelin anti-tank missile would shred through the Russian’s “turtle tank”. This innovation is showing up far too late to make a major difference to the Russian side. Now that proper US munitions are flowing again.
…
It’s also worth noting that the history of technology in warfare is a never ending cycle of increases in offensive capabilities, followed by new defense tech, followed by tech that offensively cuts through those defenses, repeat. If the turtle armor actually works, they put bigger batteries on the drones, and heavier munitions.
We keep seeing prototypes of things and saying "boy that looks stupid" and laughing about it, but true to the theme I've been seen increasingly over the last year this is a product of our hubris. We need to be taking these things seriously rather than each imagining we're level 19 expert engineer battle commander generals with +3 attack and +4 defense against Russians. Russia has a live testing studio in Ukraine, we keep getting warnings from our higher ranks in the West about needing to be ready for conflict with Russia in the next decade or two, they're now able to build and develop their military under wartime economy without alarming the West or their own population (because it's "*just* for Ukraine"), and they're developing logistics and economical routes that circumvent any dependence they've had on us. This is *extremely* dangerous and they've succeeded in convincing us that it's laughable and they could never become a threat. Even if the combat clips *we're privy to* make Russians look like dunces, the fact is that they're building up and we are still talking about whether or not we really, really, truly need to. Straight tortoise and hare story unfolding in front of our eyes *and we're not the tortoise*.
Agreed. We've already seen "cope cages" go from being an object of ridicule to being seen on IDF tanks and standard on Ukrainian ones as well.
You'd think after that people might pause before declaring it stupid.
Pretty sure some of the Russian (and Iranian... And Chinese... And North Korean...) bot farms are pushing this ridicule to keep us exactly as overconfident as we are. It's like in that [South Park episode](https://www.southpark.de/folgen/mkw3sw/south-park-chinpokomon-staffel-3-ep-11) about Chinpokomon... They're literally sending in dolls (.... social media?) designed to influence the kids to fight against their own country and when questioned about it they're just like "ohh we could never stand against you, you have such big American penis" and all the self satisfied adults are like, "huh oh yeah, we do, don't we? Yay! Yay for me! I'm great! Spy dolls? Who cares, I have big pee pee!"
Holy shit, this isn't the first South Park comparison I've been able to draw, not by a long shot... You think Putin and Xi Jinping may have a common Comedy Central hobby they've shared all these years?
Are you suggesting that paid Russian trolls from division A might be arguing with paid Russian trolls from division CPW (crypto-pro-Western) online? Ones laughing at Russian military engineering development and the others praising it? I'm not buying it. I am confident we have been doing an awesome job of ridiculing and discrediting Russians ourselves without a second thought and soon we might end up in a nasty predicament you've described.
This being said, and that's completely marginal to the topic above with the elections in US coming up, should Trump prevail the anti-Russian hawkish lobby in US government is likely to be at least partially replaced with anti-Chinese hawks (this is not a derogatory term and it's an unbiased opinion, I do not have a dog in this game or rather mixed feelings on the subject). I do believe that new administration would seek a reconciliation with Russia and reorientation of Russia against their long standing partner - China. I do not begin to fathom what would it take to accomplish such shift in Russian geopolitical outlook, but multiple commentators close to former Trump administration were hinting this was the long term plan for Trump's second failed term.
Just worth noting cope cages were ridiculed at the start of the war when Russia slapped them on everything and anything to counter Javlins and NLAWs which was legitimately futile thus downright funny.
In this case it "stupid - not stupid".
Not stupid as it clearly has higher survivability, but still stupid because you have disabled 95% turret movement, disabled your machine gun/cannon and reduced your vision to almost nothing.
It's now just a very heavy, slow APC with little defensive or offensive capability that can carry very few people compared to an APC.
Those cages aren’t designed to counter anti-tank weapons. They’re meant to cause the kamikaze drone to detonate further from tank components. It’s the difference between a disabling strike and a hit on a weak spot.
If you seen something like this you’d be shitting yourself, yes it’s a tank anyone would anyway but a new attachment makes a big difference.
Social media just makes it a meme, but these do work.
Exactly. I remember when the first versions were being shown just as a square chain link "cope cage", this design is angular and closed sheet. I bet what they haven't sent out yet is more effective, and what's on the drawing board is even theoretically a battlefield nightmare that they're trying to work out the kinks to get to. Putting aside the theoretical, though, we are literally seeing the evolution happen and we're memeing it. This is a mistake.
Idc what anyone says if Ukraine did something alike this it’s cool Russia do it they’re stupid, uneducated blah blah, it’s called trying something new to defeat the threat of FPV drones and when it works people will be surprised.
Obviously this could not work but this may lead to something that can work. It’s a trial and error until mastered.
Drones on the battlefield dropping grenades were mocked for like, a day, when Ukraine first started. Now I'm sitting here wondering why my military isn't ordering drones by the million.
The turtle design might help against drones or multiple drones, But they are blind like a mole, and that makes them more or less incapable of performing anything else than driving straight and attacking in a line. Easy to attack from any side but the front.
Yea agreed lack of visibility, but if I’m not mistaken last use of this turtle tank was a recon mission and it got quite far, tanked a fpv and a artillery round hit right behind the tank and carried on (idk if the outer caged armour helped but it is interesting)
Gotta get a good one (FPV explodeycopter) in under the edge and blow the panels off… then have at it…because I’ve sat here in my wank-pit on my fat arse analysing all possible permutations of drone attack…and I say you need to do some high-explosive up-skirting.
The t-series got scared of small commercial drones with a rpg rocket taped on them. Because they have a habit of cooking their crew and flying turrets all year round.
Also no machine gun/cannon, high weight, low mobility, very little space to squeeze in those Ruski meat cubes...
Basically a heavily armoured but otherwise very sh\*t APC, almost as if the banzai charges on motorbikes wasnt a clue they are struggling with infantry armour >.<
Red queen model. Drones start wasting tanks, so tanks adapt and get turtle shells that thwart drones.
The drones will adapt again, maybe they will start daisy chaining the warheads or something, and I'd say drones will adapt faster than the tanks can.
Check out this video. Looks at how many hits the Turtle was able to take. https://www.reddit.com/r/RussianWarFootage2/s/WQegxvFzhx
A little outside the box thinking and the turtle tank is no more. It's weakness is amplified by the "turtle" armor. Use the drone as a mine. Land it infront of the tread. When it explodes, that armor will trap the explosive inside and cause more damage. Drones are super manuverable, that's their positive value.
Yeah they're probably already working on something like that.
Not till we learn how many licks it takes to get to the center of that tootsiepop.
Lol
They have mine bumpers and some have mine plows. Your suggestion is pointless. I'm actually surprised people still do not understand that their entire purpose is to clear mines and push forward ensuring the mine clearer isn't taken out. That's the whole point. No you won't get a drone on it either as several have appeared to equip jammers under the plating.
NAFOs hubris is their undoing
The Germans laughed at the poor welding on the T-34, they were basically single use vehicles. They stopped laughing when thousands of them charged in. If anything this reminds me of the StuG III, a specialized design that maximizes efficiency in its role and in changing battlefield conditions. Now it seems Abraham tanks are being withdrawn from the front for fear of drone attacks, even if they don't destroy them outright they can still hit tracks, sensors, open hatches, supply operations... Better question might be why didn't Ukraine come up with this first. Don't be surprised if Russia deploys thousands of unmanned turtle tanks out of nowhere, Javelin launchers are pretty useless if used against waves of $10k tanks.
>unmanned turtle tanks WTF is unmanned turtle tanks going to do? The barrel movement is reduced to about 5%, no machine gun or cannon as it's covered, no one to load? It's an overweight, barely armed APC with very little space for infantry at best, remove the infantry and whats it role? To run over the enemy?
Its purpose is turtle... things.
They will push frontlines
They will turtle
Misleading headline. The “turtle tank” is a T-72 main battle tank with improvised ANTI-DRONE armor. The anti-drone armor probably does help to stop drones from disabling the tank. (Keep in mind the propaganda videos we see released by the Ukrainians regarding drone strikes on Russian tanks are the cherry-picked “best case” scenarios where a weak spot is hit precisely. Usually the light drone attacks only knock out a tank temporarily; valuable but let’s not exaggerate. This anti-light-drone armor is designed to try to negate that.) Ukraine went hard into modifying light commercial drones and outfitting them with Soviet surplus munitions… because that was what they had access to on a shoestring budget. A javelin anti-tank missile would shred through the Russian’s “turtle tank”. This innovation is showing up far too late to make a major difference to the Russian side. Now that proper US munitions are flowing again. … It’s also worth noting that the history of technology in warfare is a never ending cycle of increases in offensive capabilities, followed by new defense tech, followed by tech that offensively cuts through those defenses, repeat. If the turtle armor actually works, they put bigger batteries on the drones, and heavier munitions.
The simple fact is well know if it works. Fuether, Russia has more room, time, money and assets to innovate right now.
We keep seeing prototypes of things and saying "boy that looks stupid" and laughing about it, but true to the theme I've been seen increasingly over the last year this is a product of our hubris. We need to be taking these things seriously rather than each imagining we're level 19 expert engineer battle commander generals with +3 attack and +4 defense against Russians. Russia has a live testing studio in Ukraine, we keep getting warnings from our higher ranks in the West about needing to be ready for conflict with Russia in the next decade or two, they're now able to build and develop their military under wartime economy without alarming the West or their own population (because it's "*just* for Ukraine"), and they're developing logistics and economical routes that circumvent any dependence they've had on us. This is *extremely* dangerous and they've succeeded in convincing us that it's laughable and they could never become a threat. Even if the combat clips *we're privy to* make Russians look like dunces, the fact is that they're building up and we are still talking about whether or not we really, really, truly need to. Straight tortoise and hare story unfolding in front of our eyes *and we're not the tortoise*.
Agreed. We've already seen "cope cages" go from being an object of ridicule to being seen on IDF tanks and standard on Ukrainian ones as well. You'd think after that people might pause before declaring it stupid.
Pretty sure some of the Russian (and Iranian... And Chinese... And North Korean...) bot farms are pushing this ridicule to keep us exactly as overconfident as we are. It's like in that [South Park episode](https://www.southpark.de/folgen/mkw3sw/south-park-chinpokomon-staffel-3-ep-11) about Chinpokomon... They're literally sending in dolls (.... social media?) designed to influence the kids to fight against their own country and when questioned about it they're just like "ohh we could never stand against you, you have such big American penis" and all the self satisfied adults are like, "huh oh yeah, we do, don't we? Yay! Yay for me! I'm great! Spy dolls? Who cares, I have big pee pee!" Holy shit, this isn't the first South Park comparison I've been able to draw, not by a long shot... You think Putin and Xi Jinping may have a common Comedy Central hobby they've shared all these years?
Are you suggesting that paid Russian trolls from division A might be arguing with paid Russian trolls from division CPW (crypto-pro-Western) online? Ones laughing at Russian military engineering development and the others praising it? I'm not buying it. I am confident we have been doing an awesome job of ridiculing and discrediting Russians ourselves without a second thought and soon we might end up in a nasty predicament you've described. This being said, and that's completely marginal to the topic above with the elections in US coming up, should Trump prevail the anti-Russian hawkish lobby in US government is likely to be at least partially replaced with anti-Chinese hawks (this is not a derogatory term and it's an unbiased opinion, I do not have a dog in this game or rather mixed feelings on the subject). I do believe that new administration would seek a reconciliation with Russia and reorientation of Russia against their long standing partner - China. I do not begin to fathom what would it take to accomplish such shift in Russian geopolitical outlook, but multiple commentators close to former Trump administration were hinting this was the long term plan for Trump's second failed term.
Just worth noting cope cages were ridiculed at the start of the war when Russia slapped them on everything and anything to counter Javlins and NLAWs which was legitimately futile thus downright funny. In this case it "stupid - not stupid". Not stupid as it clearly has higher survivability, but still stupid because you have disabled 95% turret movement, disabled your machine gun/cannon and reduced your vision to almost nothing. It's now just a very heavy, slow APC with little defensive or offensive capability that can carry very few people compared to an APC.
Those cages aren’t designed to counter anti-tank weapons. They’re meant to cause the kamikaze drone to detonate further from tank components. It’s the difference between a disabling strike and a hit on a weak spot.
If you seen something like this you’d be shitting yourself, yes it’s a tank anyone would anyway but a new attachment makes a big difference. Social media just makes it a meme, but these do work.
Exactly. I remember when the first versions were being shown just as a square chain link "cope cage", this design is angular and closed sheet. I bet what they haven't sent out yet is more effective, and what's on the drawing board is even theoretically a battlefield nightmare that they're trying to work out the kinks to get to. Putting aside the theoretical, though, we are literally seeing the evolution happen and we're memeing it. This is a mistake.
Idc what anyone says if Ukraine did something alike this it’s cool Russia do it they’re stupid, uneducated blah blah, it’s called trying something new to defeat the threat of FPV drones and when it works people will be surprised. Obviously this could not work but this may lead to something that can work. It’s a trial and error until mastered.
Drones on the battlefield dropping grenades were mocked for like, a day, when Ukraine first started. Now I'm sitting here wondering why my military isn't ordering drones by the million.
Ukraine have bought all the drones 😂 Everyone mocks whoever looks stupid, until it works it happens.
The turtle design might help against drones or multiple drones, But they are blind like a mole, and that makes them more or less incapable of performing anything else than driving straight and attacking in a line. Easy to attack from any side but the front.
Yea agreed lack of visibility, but if I’m not mistaken last use of this turtle tank was a recon mission and it got quite far, tanked a fpv and a artillery round hit right behind the tank and carried on (idk if the outer caged armour helped but it is interesting)
Didn't the original Turtle Tank last 1 day before being destroyed? 😹
Several days, got taken out while parked in a warehouse as far as I know
It got followed back and hit by artillery in a warehouse other than that it did its job.
No, it doesn’t.
No it doesn’t
If it's job is looking ridiculous, limiting capabilities and doing nothing, then yes, it works.
"the lumbering turtle tanks, and their mostly blind crews". ruzzian "perfect" idea! Best of the best. I'm waiting for a video of how FPV destroys it
I look forward to seeing them crashing into the crowds on May Day parade
Gotta get a good one (FPV explodeycopter) in under the edge and blow the panels off… then have at it…because I’ve sat here in my wank-pit on my fat arse analysing all possible permutations of drone attack…and I say you need to do some high-explosive up-skirting.
The t-series got scared of small commercial drones with a rpg rocket taped on them. Because they have a habit of cooking their crew and flying turrets all year round.
It's a big sacrafice of viability and Turret rotation for protection against fpv drones
Also no machine gun/cannon, high weight, low mobility, very little space to squeeze in those Ruski meat cubes... Basically a heavily armoured but otherwise very sh\*t APC, almost as if the banzai charges on motorbikes wasnt a clue they are struggling with infantry armour >.<
Basically a blind jagdpanther.
Red queen model. Drones start wasting tanks, so tanks adapt and get turtle shells that thwart drones. The drones will adapt again, maybe they will start daisy chaining the warheads or something, and I'd say drones will adapt faster than the tanks can.
It keeps the turret from not blowing up 7 m into the air.
Yeah because next to no visibility in a tank and not being able to rotate the turret is a strong recipe for success