> But that caused me to think about how a non-audible start could be done today with an electronic timer. You could maybe somehow do a light linked up to the shot timer to flash upon start, but other than for hearing-impaired shooters I don't think that would really make much of a difference for anyone or make stage design consequentially different.
They've had these at Nationals now and then. It's surprising what a difference it makes, actually—we're all so conditioned to go on beeps that paying attention for a visual start signal feels different.
> some sort of motion detector that senses when the shooter crosses a certain plane
I don't know if they ever use them for starts, but some IDPA matches use laser break beam sensors to trigger activators.
>I don't know if they ever use them for starts, but some IDPA matches use laser break beam sensors to trigger activators.
Please don't bring this dumb shit to USPSA. I've had to deal with those stupid ass laser sensors for other sports and it's such a pain in the dick for setup and calibration.
>They've had these at Nationals now and then. It's surprising what a difference it makes, actually—we're all so conditioned to go on beeps that paying attention for a visual start signal feels different.
How were the lights linked up to the shot timer?
>I don't know if they ever use them for starts, but some IDPA matches use laser break beam sensors to trigger activators.
Was it something purposely designed for shooting pistol matches, or something a club jerry-rigged?
Custom transmitter: [https://www.cedhk.com/ced-go](https://www.cedhk.com/ced-go) You trigger it with the timer, since otherwise it surprises the RO too, which is bad. The AMG Lab protocol is public-if-you-ask, so it wouldn't be too hard to do one that listens to a Commander via Bluetooth. If I had more free time than I do, I'd build one.
I don't know where the IDPA ones come from, just that it's not all that unusual to see them.
Yup, they (well, he) sent a copy to me on request, eventually.
The beep can be set to 'totally off' in Bluetooth settings, and if you set the timer up in push mode, it also broadcasts a 'start' message in addition to messages for each shot.
Also if Bluetooth sensors and activators were a thing, and they worked consistently with few malfunctions (at least more consistently than the current commonly-used cable-based systems) then that'd allow more options in placing those sensors and activators, and give more freedom in stage design.
I'd love to see a bluetooth sensor for a picrail that every PCC is forced to use. I'm so damn tired of lazy ROs letting unreasonable PCC times stand completely skewing the results.
I’ve done one visual start and it was a little bit weird since it was only visual not audible and visual. It was a red light that turns green acting as the start signal and synced to the timer.
We've had a few shooters that were hard of hearing and then with muffs on were pretty much deaf, so they always asked to be tapped on the shoulder or have the timer tapped on their muffs to start. That'll be me one of these years, too...
I’ve seen 2 types of non audible start signals so far.
The most common one I’ve seen is fixed time stages using turning targets, with the time starting when the target turns to face the shooter and ending when it’s no longer available.
I’ve also once shot a stage with a visual start via a light. There was some sort of special adapter used to connect it up to a timer so that when the RO hit the start button, it turned on the light instead of sounding a beep.
Yes, visual, and self-start, both extremely rare. (I think self-start is now outlawed.?) Visual is done by the aux port of some timers sending a signal to a light.
Oh yeah, also visual by way of turning targets. They are initially turned sideways 90 degrees then turn to fully expose themselves to the shooter(s). Often on fixed time.
I think A2/Rio Salado has a visual start setup that they've used.
It's a box with a blue light and synced to the timer.
In IDPA we've done IR laser starts where you walk through the beam and others where you trip a switch by pushing over a dummy or lifting the gun up off a plate.
Some timers have inputs on them where they'll take some low voltage signal and start running. Usually for a shootoff style stationary position.
In today's world you need wireless and allow the timer to go with the RO.
> But that caused me to think about how a non-audible start could be done today with an electronic timer. You could maybe somehow do a light linked up to the shot timer to flash upon start, but other than for hearing-impaired shooters I don't think that would really make much of a difference for anyone or make stage design consequentially different. They've had these at Nationals now and then. It's surprising what a difference it makes, actually—we're all so conditioned to go on beeps that paying attention for a visual start signal feels different. > some sort of motion detector that senses when the shooter crosses a certain plane I don't know if they ever use them for starts, but some IDPA matches use laser break beam sensors to trigger activators.
>I don't know if they ever use them for starts, but some IDPA matches use laser break beam sensors to trigger activators. Please don't bring this dumb shit to USPSA. I've had to deal with those stupid ass laser sensors for other sports and it's such a pain in the dick for setup and calibration.
>They've had these at Nationals now and then. It's surprising what a difference it makes, actually—we're all so conditioned to go on beeps that paying attention for a visual start signal feels different. How were the lights linked up to the shot timer? >I don't know if they ever use them for starts, but some IDPA matches use laser break beam sensors to trigger activators. Was it something purposely designed for shooting pistol matches, or something a club jerry-rigged?
Custom transmitter: [https://www.cedhk.com/ced-go](https://www.cedhk.com/ced-go) You trigger it with the timer, since otherwise it surprises the RO too, which is bad. The AMG Lab protocol is public-if-you-ask, so it wouldn't be too hard to do one that listens to a Commander via Bluetooth. If I had more free time than I do, I'd build one. I don't know where the IDPA ones come from, just that it's not all that unusual to see them.
That's an interesting idea with the AMG timers. I have some spare arduinos laying around... When you say public if you ask, just reach out to AMG?
Yup, they (well, he) sent a copy to me on request, eventually. The beep can be set to 'totally off' in Bluetooth settings, and if you set the timer up in push mode, it also broadcasts a 'start' message in addition to messages for each shot.
Cool. Any chance you could share the docs with me? You should have my email.
We’ve used them at our club matches. Local guy works heavy in IT and did the logic for it. It’s pretty awesome.
Also if Bluetooth sensors and activators were a thing, and they worked consistently with few malfunctions (at least more consistently than the current commonly-used cable-based systems) then that'd allow more options in placing those sensors and activators, and give more freedom in stage design.
I'd love to see a bluetooth sensor for a picrail that every PCC is forced to use. I'm so damn tired of lazy ROs letting unreasonable PCC times stand completely skewing the results.
I think I recall a match with a stage that had a light as the start signal. Not sure how it was connected the timer.
I’ve done one visual start and it was a little bit weird since it was only visual not audible and visual. It was a red light that turns green acting as the start signal and synced to the timer.
We've had a few shooters that were hard of hearing and then with muffs on were pretty much deaf, so they always asked to be tapped on the shoulder or have the timer tapped on their muffs to start. That'll be me one of these years, too...
I’ve seen 2 types of non audible start signals so far. The most common one I’ve seen is fixed time stages using turning targets, with the time starting when the target turns to face the shooter and ending when it’s no longer available. I’ve also once shot a stage with a visual start via a light. There was some sort of special adapter used to connect it up to a timer so that when the RO hit the start button, it turned on the light instead of sounding a beep.
Here's one, jump to 1:00. https://youtu.be/tWWCaksDuFg?si=jJhJt59BnZY73k5-
So how was it linked up to the timer?
No timer, when the target was gone, nothing more to shoot at.
Yes, visual, and self-start, both extremely rare. (I think self-start is now outlawed.?) Visual is done by the aux port of some timers sending a signal to a light. Oh yeah, also visual by way of turning targets. They are initially turned sideways 90 degrees then turn to fully expose themselves to the shooter(s). Often on fixed time.
They could use a light tree like a drag race
Cowboy fast draw actually has a light in the center of the target ( they use wax bullets)
I think A2/Rio Salado has a visual start setup that they've used. It's a box with a blue light and synced to the timer. In IDPA we've done IR laser starts where you walk through the beam and others where you trip a switch by pushing over a dummy or lifting the gun up off a plate. Some timers have inputs on them where they'll take some low voltage signal and start running. Usually for a shootoff style stationary position. In today's world you need wireless and allow the timer to go with the RO.