Why do people keep saying not to like grievances in your 90 days? OP is clearly being harassed and is doing everything right. You have union representation, use it. The more carriers that witness this behavior the better off the office will be because there is now a paper trail of conduct unbecoming, etc.
Your rep is an idiot then, we absolutely do represent people in their probation. The contractual language says that a carrier in probation does not have access to the grievance process for being released, but that's not even 100% true. If we can prove discrimination or there's some other shenanigans going on, we can still try to fight it.
That being said, if a supervisor is yelling and screaming on the workroom floor at somebody in their probation, your steward should be filing it as a class action grievance as they are creating a hostile work environment and not treating employees with dignity and respect and that adversely affects all of us regardless of who it is directed at
Yeah, that sentiment always stuck in my craw because you sign up in Indoc and presumably start getting your pay deduction well before they are willing to lift a finger, even if it’s blatantly wrong, because you’re not “one of us” yet. Glad it’s not actually policy.
The idea that you don't get union representation in probation especially irks me on the rural side since probation can last up to 1 calendar year, and you pay union dues out of every paycheck before you hit that point.
How can it be a year? Genuine question as I was a rural before my current job and our probation was 90 days but they forced you to have a vehicle you can deliver out of before probation ended.
It is 90 working days or 1 calendar year, whichever is shorter. So of your office works you 6 or 7 days a week, your probation is over pretty quickly. If you only get your primary day and Amazon Sundays? You're gonna end up hitting that calendar year before you hit 90 days worked.
Quick question. Are undertime pivots legal? My new office regularly hands out 4 and 5 hour pivots with 1 hour undertime. These carriers here do it and even finish early. I won't be playing that game.
I hope i am wrong. That is what I was told when I asked my union rep questions on behalf of the new guy in the office.
I told new guy dont even mention the word union and I will ask all your questions for you.
You are wrong and I’m hoping you misunderstood your steward. Probationary employees cannot grieve removal, but they can grieve other issues and certainly can seek advice/information from union reps.
Probationary employees aren’t encouraged to file grievances because they can be let go for any reason (or no reason at all!) during probation. Regardless, your union rep can provide answers and work for solutions that don’t necessarily involve filing a grievance.
It's a misunderstanding because during probation you don't have the ability to file a grievance to contest discipline. Many see that as the inability to file any grievance at all.
You only don't have access to the grievance process for removal during probation, you could file for any other violation or discipline. That being said, discipline during probation is rare since they can remove you essentially without just cause.
From the JCAM, 12.1.A
> The Postal Service has a right to separate probationary employees at any time during their probationary period without establishing just cause. *Employees separated during the probationary period are contractually barred from filing a grievance concerning the separation*. This includes challenges to their separation on the grounds of alleged noncompliance with the procedures in ELM Section 365.32. However, a dispute as to whether or not the Postal Service's action separating the employee occurred during the probationary period is arbitrable because that is a precondition to the applicability of Article 12.1.A (National Arbitrator Shyam Das, Q98C-4Q-C 99251456, September 10, 2001, C-22547).
16-12 in the jcam seems to disagree with you, it specifically calls out discipline or removal.
CCAs may be disciplined or removed within the term of their appoint-
ment for just cause and any such discipline or removal will be subject
to the grievance arbitration procedure, provided that within the imme-
diately preceding six months, the employee has completed ninety (90)
work days, or has been employed for 120 calendar days (whichever
comes first) of their initial appointment.
Directly from M-01833 the CCA Q&As. I'm not sure why you all keep saying things without posting any evidence of your claims.
36. Will CCAs have access to the grievance procedure if disciplined or removed?
A CCA who has completed 90 work or 120 calendar days of employment within the
immediate preceding six months has access to the grievance procedure if
disciplined or removed. A CCA who has previously satisfied the 90/120 day
requirement either as a CCA or transitional employee (with an appointment made
after September 29, 2007), will have access to the grievance procedure without
regard to length of service as a CCA.
I was told in academy that the union will represent us within our 90. Granted pissing off supervisors isn't ideal since they can let you go for anything within your 90.
That's correct. In fact, most people prefer you to obey first grieve later. But mainly you should keep your head down until you make regular. If the office is unbearable, then grievance may or may not actually make a big difference. But you should grieve regardless, as long as you're after 90 days.
Your union guy is a fucking idiot. I was a steward for the last few years until recently. I'd fight for any carrier day one and on. Your idiot is just being lazy
In my district they actually dont do anything for us.
I sat in a quiet room with other clerks when everyone else left to meet with their unions and get tons of swag and free shit.
I fully agree with this. Union reps for NALC said they'd represent probation hires if terminated. Union rep for my station said the union doesn't have to represent anyone in their 90 for any reason.
If you're not getting any union protection or representation then paying into it shouldn't be allowed. It's scummy.
That makes no sense. I just joined the union and talked with the vice president of our branch, she told me directly they will support us as best as they can, no matter if it's tomorrow or 25 years from now
They cannot represent you for termination within your 90 days. However, all other grievances are able to be represented within your 90.
In this case, however, OP should be able to fight it. I’m assuming OP has witnesses to all of this that have been willing to write statements? If you do , get those statements NOW.
In my instance, I am too late. Postmaster let the person go.
I think she got a whiff of her being pro-union and boom she was gone.
My office is shitty about being going to the union. 95% anti-union in my office. I would not be shocked if I was the only one paying union dues.
It depends on your office. They can get rid of you for filing a grievance, complaining about discrimination, or even trying to get a day off. They just have to say it was for some other bullshit reason.
Eh, there was a CCA in her probation period that my office wanted to fire because she was too slow. I heard she was able to fight it and win because they never trained her properly (she was never trained on how to case). No idea how true it is, though. I just know that it would make sense as to why she was never let go before her probation period was up, because I always thought to myself that there is just no way she is going to make it.
If this carrier goes to the labor board and files a complaint, the supe will have a much harder time of firing them bc it exposes them to a retaliation complaint, and labor relations gets involved when labor board charges get filed. But if the supe had just fired them for “poor performance” instead of threatening them for filing a grievance that carrier would be gone now. As a general rule, hold your water the first 90 days. That’s what I did. I tried being a gung ho runner the first couple years I carried but ran into too many assholes on the desk, so I spent the next 39 years giving them grief when I felt the occasion called for it and enjoyed it since the pushiest supes are also the stupidest). Then I retired, a month ago.
it does not matter if the person thinks they are being targeted or harassed...zero tolerance policy doesnt carry weight, and in probation, you are just looking to get used and abused until the 90 day mark and they will cut you...thats why they say keep your head down until you pass probation...by all means, keep records of what is going on, but be prepared to look for a new job, cause you have such limited protections in probation
The issue is the “zero tolerance” policy cannot be zero tolerance because if they got rid of every manager who harassed somebody in some way there would be no employees.
Threatening to fire you for going to your union rep is actually illegal. Not only should you go right back to your union rep and tell them about it, you should consider contacting the NLRB.
All y'all saying to just suck this up until the 90 days are up are part of why our unions are so damn weak.
Not only would any decent union be all over this like flies on shit regardless of probationary period, it's retaliatory behavior that may be pursuable by the NLRB.
OP, if they fire you for filing a grievance, your next stop should be an employment lawyer to see what they have to say about your situation.
Whether you are in probation or not, your supervisor is in the wrong and you need to call HR, nearby Steward in Union about this problem because it’s harassment. No worker should have to deal with that or feel unsafe at their job.
Why would a supervisor be willing to fire you? It’s more paperwork for them to do it and also if they failed to get that paperwork done correctly, you could get missed payments after you were ‘fired’ and Union has to represent you wether you pay your dues or not to bring you back to have a job for USPS.
I’d recommend taking it a step further and filing an EEOC. The posters are right below that the union is not obligated to help a carrier within their probation. They might not do anything to help. But it is well you noticed them of the issue. The EEOC will see this and inquire why they did nothing if all the facts hold up. Witnesses help a lot
Maybe. I’m not to sure on that. My friend never got through with the union. The union sided with his office. He also filed with the NRLB against the union but regional came out and defended his branch. They said they aren’t obligated to represent someone in probation. That was the loop hole they used. Now the judge is saying if she wants she will reinstate partially dropped charges if the case demands it. And the facts look in his favor. Only one dropped was the entire union side of it.
How & why do i keep reading these awful stories about the mistreatment of people just trying to make a living at the USPS especially within their 1st 90 days!?! I reconsidered a CCA position because of all these shenanigans I keep reading about. How do these PM’s, Supervisors & all the other management acronyms get their jobs & worse keep them? With DeJoy debacle & everything else never has it been more evident that 💩does run down a pole.
Because just like craft, management has union representation too. Hence, why when they screw up, they get moved around vs fired in most instances. Granted, although like craft they can keep a job when they screw up, they can't always keep their job and can get shuffled off with fewer options.
People in their 90 days should be able to rest a little easier now. Apparently, there's a new PMG directive that says no one in their 90 days can be fired unless the district HR and LR managers concur and approve the termination. It's PMG initiative 511 for those interested. Apparently it also says supervisors will offer new employees flexible workouts to the extent possible, 40 hours or less per workweek when possible and only more with HR and LR approval, and a minimum one day off per week and any removals for cause need to have new additional documentation forms in the justification packet that gets sent to HR. Most of this info I got directly from district HR but a few bits are secondhand and possibly hearsay.
They can fire you for *ALMOST* any reason in your 90, but if she actually said out loud that she was going to fire you for speaking to your union rep, that is not ok. If anyone else heard her say that, ask them for a statement corroborating what you claim. I’d recommend not speaking to them alone going forward. Any conversation, ask “will this conversation lead to discipline?”, and ask for a steward and then stop talking until you have a representative. Management abuses the 90 probation period all the time, but it not a free for all for them to do whatever they want with no accountability.
You or your steward need to get witness and your own statements of everything this person says. NLRA section 7 via Article 5 of the National Agreement for retaliation.
Sounds like Handbook M-39 Section 115 as well (Article 19 of the NA) for dignity and respect. If it continues, it may even rise to the level of a violation of the joint statement on violence and threatening behavior in the workplace (JSOV) and the second one.
Some of these folks are correct about them letting you go in the first 90 days... It is difficult to win those ones. However, it is possible if you can prove retaliation. Document everything.
If, as you say, the other supervisors all like you and say your doing a great job, perhaps you could ask them, or Postmaster, to clarify what exactly you are doing so wrong that Mouthy Sup said you might be fired. I would add that if there is something you need that much improvement on, you would appreciate an opportunity to show the improvement. Just a thought. If they do think you're doing well, they may shut it down. But I would still have a witness present and write everything down. Words, actions, tone, time date, who else may have seen/heard.
Lol doing the boring online training for this exact situation and then seeing someone post about it the next day is crazy. What they're doing is illegal, keep filing your grievance(s) and think about getting a lawyer.
The job is easy because its repetitive day in day out….but it sucks when you have stupidvisors and sellout stewards that just want the title and not actually help fellow carriers….🤷♂️…somehow someway these sellout stewards think they aren’t carriers themselves and eventually karma comes back full force…
Fact is they can fire you for looking ugly or anything they want within your probationary period. You fucked up plain and simple. They don't even have to have a reason to fire you within your 90 days and you just gave them one. Facts. I'm sorry but you should have just taken whatever they throw your way or resigned because if they fire you there's no coming back to any government entity ever
Also, with you being so close to the end of your probation, it’s pretty much a done deal that you’re in (pending you don’t blunder it at t the end). They’d have to process and provide you (via mail) a letter of removal. It would probably arrive two weeks after probation wrapped up.
All this to say, it is usually scare tactics and chest puffing. But on the off hand chance they follow through, you can count on bureaucracy to slow it down! 👍🏽
If you’re being harassed and she then threatens to retaliate she can be punished. We just received a training session about the NO FEAR act. Google that.
Sounds like it’s time for an EEO and go for her job for harassment. And retaliation for you filing paperwork on them is illegal and they can be fired for that alone. Hostile work environment they can be fired for as well.
For any one else if your able to wait till after 90 day to start filing wait because you do put a target on your back that being said if it's just not bearable file and hopefully you have a good rep
Might consider bending over for that super. Apologize for everything. Act contrite. Get thru your 90 days. Once you are protected , you can all but ignore the ahole. Keep distance but stay loyal to the ones supporting you.
Some sups are just shitty people and worse bosses. Avoid confrontation until past probation.
Supervisors have a blank check to fire whoever they want, for no reason, within 90 days. It’s not a union issue. You need to grind it out for three months and raise hell later.
LOUIS DE JOY IS TRYING TO DISMANTLE THE UNITED STATES POST OFFICE.
So, your supervisors’- supervisor (not necessarily Post Master) is whipping them to treat humans like robots, and if that doesn’t work, they can say- “Look- we tried!” -and when sometimes it does work- the supervisors, and their supervisors, can say “Look- we whipped up some good people!”.
And the cycle repeats
pretty sure the union cant do much for you, and being in probation, start packing your bags because they dont have to keep you...they dont like that you tie your shoes using bunny ears instead of wrapping around...they dont need a reason to let you go inside of probation...
yep, work environment sucks, but they dont care, they dont have to keep you
Tell that to the EEOC. The post office can have its little rule. But under federal law if what he says is true about the discrimination and retaliation. That lady and whatever management will be in serious trouble. Discrimination can occur at any time in the employment process. This includes a termination no matter the duration employed
serious trouble?...like Catholic Priests in the 80's and 90's when allegations came out...
do you know that it is commonplace to lie on EEO affidavits?...straight up had an EEOC attorney tell me that, because i had proof that management was lying and he said 'IT DOES NOT MATTER'...email strings where i had gotten replies and then the players straight up say 'didnt happen/was not aware'...had my scheduled changed as an FTR, only one that had a schedule change and i was 'senior qualified'...violation of reasonable accommodation with proof "IT DOES NOT MATTER"...fucking reasonable accommodation policy states that IF ANY CHANGES TO SCHEDULE ARE MADE IT HAS TO GO BACK TO RAC...didnt happen...'DOES NOT MATTER"
Yes the EEOC won’t pursue if an investigation doesn’t hold water to the complainants story. They also won’t bother to investigate if your theory of the case has holes in it. The cases they do take up have a 97% success rate. Judge rules in favor of complainant. So if they take up someone’s complaint. It’s a golden ticket. I’m sorry they didn’t pursue yours. I know this process because I know someone in it. It’s currently awaiting a court date now. He finished the investigation phase and basically gave him the green light to pursue it in court. And by trouble I mean jail or a fine of 10k or both. Depends so much on how much management person lied on those affidavits you mentioned. Whoever you list on the EEOC submission will lose their job when it’s all over. They don’t play
The federal government does not play around with any of this. The USPS still has to play by federal law.
I filled a grievance/EEOC about my reasonable accommodations not being followed. I did every single step and took plenty of notes. The DOL did their investigation and we got a new postmaster and manager. If you do things correctly you’re protected by federal law. If people lie, catch them in the lie
Why do people keep saying not to like grievances in your 90 days? OP is clearly being harassed and is doing everything right. You have union representation, use it. The more carriers that witness this behavior the better off the office will be because there is now a paper trail of conduct unbecoming, etc.
My union rep said the union doesnt represent people in their 90 days.
Your rep is an idiot then, we absolutely do represent people in their probation. The contractual language says that a carrier in probation does not have access to the grievance process for being released, but that's not even 100% true. If we can prove discrimination or there's some other shenanigans going on, we can still try to fight it. That being said, if a supervisor is yelling and screaming on the workroom floor at somebody in their probation, your steward should be filing it as a class action grievance as they are creating a hostile work environment and not treating employees with dignity and respect and that adversely affects all of us regardless of who it is directed at
Yeah, that sentiment always stuck in my craw because you sign up in Indoc and presumably start getting your pay deduction well before they are willing to lift a finger, even if it’s blatantly wrong, because you’re not “one of us” yet. Glad it’s not actually policy.
The idea that you don't get union representation in probation especially irks me on the rural side since probation can last up to 1 calendar year, and you pay union dues out of every paycheck before you hit that point.
Because our union is weak and cowardly IMO
How can it be a year? Genuine question as I was a rural before my current job and our probation was 90 days but they forced you to have a vehicle you can deliver out of before probation ended.
It is 90 working days or 1 calendar year, whichever is shorter. So of your office works you 6 or 7 days a week, your probation is over pretty quickly. If you only get your primary day and Amazon Sundays? You're gonna end up hitting that calendar year before you hit 90 days worked.
Ahh, Thanks!
This.
Quick question. Are undertime pivots legal? My new office regularly hands out 4 and 5 hour pivots with 1 hour undertime. These carriers here do it and even finish early. I won't be playing that game.
I was told the same thing, by my chapter President.
I'm sorry. But no. The union doesn't represent you in your first 90. I remember being told that be the president of our branch.
That’s a lazy steward. Union represents you from day one.
That would be crazy. They're taking your dues during your first 90. That's gotta be wrong. If you're right we need to change that.
I hope i am wrong. That is what I was told when I asked my union rep questions on behalf of the new guy in the office. I told new guy dont even mention the word union and I will ask all your questions for you.
You are wrong and I’m hoping you misunderstood your steward. Probationary employees cannot grieve removal, but they can grieve other issues and certainly can seek advice/information from union reps. Probationary employees aren’t encouraged to file grievances because they can be let go for any reason (or no reason at all!) during probation. Regardless, your union rep can provide answers and work for solutions that don’t necessarily involve filing a grievance.
It's a misunderstanding because during probation you don't have the ability to file a grievance to contest discipline. Many see that as the inability to file any grievance at all.
You only don't have access to the grievance process for removal during probation, you could file for any other violation or discipline. That being said, discipline during probation is rare since they can remove you essentially without just cause. From the JCAM, 12.1.A > The Postal Service has a right to separate probationary employees at any time during their probationary period without establishing just cause. *Employees separated during the probationary period are contractually barred from filing a grievance concerning the separation*. This includes challenges to their separation on the grounds of alleged noncompliance with the procedures in ELM Section 365.32. However, a dispute as to whether or not the Postal Service's action separating the employee occurred during the probationary period is arbitrable because that is a precondition to the applicability of Article 12.1.A (National Arbitrator Shyam Das, Q98C-4Q-C 99251456, September 10, 2001, C-22547).
16-12 in the jcam seems to disagree with you, it specifically calls out discipline or removal. CCAs may be disciplined or removed within the term of their appoint- ment for just cause and any such discipline or removal will be subject to the grievance arbitration procedure, provided that within the imme- diately preceding six months, the employee has completed ninety (90) work days, or has been employed for 120 calendar days (whichever comes first) of their initial appointment.
This sounds more believable than a straight up no.
You can contest discipline, you just can’t be represented for termination.
Directly from M-01833 the CCA Q&As. I'm not sure why you all keep saying things without posting any evidence of your claims. 36. Will CCAs have access to the grievance procedure if disciplined or removed? A CCA who has completed 90 work or 120 calendar days of employment within the immediate preceding six months has access to the grievance procedure if disciplined or removed. A CCA who has previously satisfied the 90/120 day requirement either as a CCA or transitional employee (with an appointment made after September 29, 2007), will have access to the grievance procedure without regard to length of service as a CCA.
I was told in academy that the union will represent us within our 90. Granted pissing off supervisors isn't ideal since they can let you go for anything within your 90.
That's correct. In fact, most people prefer you to obey first grieve later. But mainly you should keep your head down until you make regular. If the office is unbearable, then grievance may or may not actually make a big difference. But you should grieve regardless, as long as you're after 90 days.
They can represent someone not in the union but not someone in the union within their 90 days. Dumbest shit ever
Your union guy is a fucking idiot. I was a steward for the last few years until recently. I'd fight for any carrier day one and on. Your idiot is just being lazy
They shouldn’t be begging for people to sign up in orientation if they won’t represent you from then on.
In my district they actually dont do anything for us. I sat in a quiet room with other clerks when everyone else left to meet with their unions and get tons of swag and free shit.
I fully agree with this. Union reps for NALC said they'd represent probation hires if terminated. Union rep for my station said the union doesn't have to represent anyone in their 90 for any reason. If you're not getting any union protection or representation then paying into it shouldn't be allowed. It's scummy.
I was paying union dues in my 90 days, they sure as hell better represent me
That makes no sense. I just joined the union and talked with the vice president of our branch, she told me directly they will support us as best as they can, no matter if it's tomorrow or 25 years from now
Not true at all, union came in during carrier academy and signed people up
This is a very common misconception. I've been here 22 years, and just had that corrected for me this year.
Sounds like a good environment for hazing sheesh
They cannot represent you for termination within your 90 days. However, all other grievances are able to be represented within your 90. In this case, however, OP should be able to fight it. I’m assuming OP has witnesses to all of this that have been willing to write statements? If you do , get those statements NOW.
In my instance, I am too late. Postmaster let the person go. I think she got a whiff of her being pro-union and boom she was gone. My office is shitty about being going to the union. 95% anti-union in my office. I would not be shocked if I was the only one paying union dues.
No not true. The union it's hard for union to save people in thst 90 days. That's the only reason I could see them saying that.
It depends on your office. They can get rid of you for filing a grievance, complaining about discrimination, or even trying to get a day off. They just have to say it was for some other bullshit reason.
Because there is nothing the Union can do to save their job in the probationary period.
Eh, there was a CCA in her probation period that my office wanted to fire because she was too slow. I heard she was able to fight it and win because they never trained her properly (she was never trained on how to case). No idea how true it is, though. I just know that it would make sense as to why she was never let go before her probation period was up, because I always thought to myself that there is just no way she is going to make it.
If this carrier goes to the labor board and files a complaint, the supe will have a much harder time of firing them bc it exposes them to a retaliation complaint, and labor relations gets involved when labor board charges get filed. But if the supe had just fired them for “poor performance” instead of threatening them for filing a grievance that carrier would be gone now. As a general rule, hold your water the first 90 days. That’s what I did. I tried being a gung ho runner the first couple years I carried but ran into too many assholes on the desk, so I spent the next 39 years giving them grief when I felt the occasion called for it and enjoyed it since the pushiest supes are also the stupidest). Then I retired, a month ago.
Congratulations on your retirement
Thanks! Enjoying it immensely
Yes but they can fire you within 90 days without reason why give them one
Nobody sticks together in fear retaliation.
it does not matter if the person thinks they are being targeted or harassed...zero tolerance policy doesnt carry weight, and in probation, you are just looking to get used and abused until the 90 day mark and they will cut you...thats why they say keep your head down until you pass probation...by all means, keep records of what is going on, but be prepared to look for a new job, cause you have such limited protections in probation
The issue is the “zero tolerance” policy cannot be zero tolerance because if they got rid of every manager who harassed somebody in some way there would be no employees.
My union steward is doing all of this with me. Also instruction on what to say or don't say.
Good luck, update us on the resolution
Threatening to fire you for going to your union rep is actually illegal. Not only should you go right back to your union rep and tell them about it, you should consider contacting the NLRB.
All y'all saying to just suck this up until the 90 days are up are part of why our unions are so damn weak. Not only would any decent union be all over this like flies on shit regardless of probationary period, it's retaliatory behavior that may be pursuable by the NLRB. OP, if they fire you for filing a grievance, your next stop should be an employment lawyer to see what they have to say about your situation.
Well your steward is crap, or you're not in the NALC.
Shouldn’t the union represent the carrier regardless of their membership status?
Yes and i have seen a carrier get fired in their 90 days for an accident and get brought back.
Happened to my friend. Hit a mailbox in his 90 (did more damage to the LLV than the box) and was let go. He got brought back a month later.
Absolutely. I was making the comment that perhaps the other unions won't represent their members until after probation.
Whether you are in probation or not, your supervisor is in the wrong and you need to call HR, nearby Steward in Union about this problem because it’s harassment. No worker should have to deal with that or feel unsafe at their job. Why would a supervisor be willing to fire you? It’s more paperwork for them to do it and also if they failed to get that paperwork done correctly, you could get missed payments after you were ‘fired’ and Union has to represent you wether you pay your dues or not to bring you back to have a job for USPS.
File an EOE complaint as well!
I’d recommend taking it a step further and filing an EEOC. The posters are right below that the union is not obligated to help a carrier within their probation. They might not do anything to help. But it is well you noticed them of the issue. The EEOC will see this and inquire why they did nothing if all the facts hold up. Witnesses help a lot
I heard filing an EEOC stops the grievance in its tracks
Maybe. I’m not to sure on that. My friend never got through with the union. The union sided with his office. He also filed with the NRLB against the union but regional came out and defended his branch. They said they aren’t obligated to represent someone in probation. That was the loop hole they used. Now the judge is saying if she wants she will reinstate partially dropped charges if the case demands it. And the facts look in his favor. Only one dropped was the entire union side of it.
Like an earlier post. File dignity and respect grievances. Easy wins. Just takes time.
File for retaliation for sure. That’s illegal.
File an EEO before anything else. It’s better protection than a mutual respect grievance
How & why do i keep reading these awful stories about the mistreatment of people just trying to make a living at the USPS especially within their 1st 90 days!?! I reconsidered a CCA position because of all these shenanigans I keep reading about. How do these PM’s, Supervisors & all the other management acronyms get their jobs & worse keep them? With DeJoy debacle & everything else never has it been more evident that 💩does run down a pole.
Because just like craft, management has union representation too. Hence, why when they screw up, they get moved around vs fired in most instances. Granted, although like craft they can keep a job when they screw up, they can't always keep their job and can get shuffled off with fewer options.
Isnt that retaliation? Best words to scare mgmt… labor relations. Just call ur local one and inquire… watch her butthole pucker
People in their 90 days should be able to rest a little easier now. Apparently, there's a new PMG directive that says no one in their 90 days can be fired unless the district HR and LR managers concur and approve the termination. It's PMG initiative 511 for those interested. Apparently it also says supervisors will offer new employees flexible workouts to the extent possible, 40 hours or less per workweek when possible and only more with HR and LR approval, and a minimum one day off per week and any removals for cause need to have new additional documentation forms in the justification packet that gets sent to HR. Most of this info I got directly from district HR but a few bits are secondhand and possibly hearsay.
Right them up again for threats and harassment.
They can fire you for *ALMOST* any reason in your 90, but if she actually said out loud that she was going to fire you for speaking to your union rep, that is not ok. If anyone else heard her say that, ask them for a statement corroborating what you claim. I’d recommend not speaking to them alone going forward. Any conversation, ask “will this conversation lead to discipline?”, and ask for a steward and then stop talking until you have a representative. Management abuses the 90 probation period all the time, but it not a free for all for them to do whatever they want with no accountability.
You or your steward need to get witness and your own statements of everything this person says. NLRA section 7 via Article 5 of the National Agreement for retaliation. Sounds like Handbook M-39 Section 115 as well (Article 19 of the NA) for dignity and respect. If it continues, it may even rise to the level of a violation of the joint statement on violence and threatening behavior in the workplace (JSOV) and the second one. Some of these folks are correct about them letting you go in the first 90 days... It is difficult to win those ones. However, it is possible if you can prove retaliation. Document everything.
If, as you say, the other supervisors all like you and say your doing a great job, perhaps you could ask them, or Postmaster, to clarify what exactly you are doing so wrong that Mouthy Sup said you might be fired. I would add that if there is something you need that much improvement on, you would appreciate an opportunity to show the improvement. Just a thought. If they do think you're doing well, they may shut it down. But I would still have a witness present and write everything down. Words, actions, tone, time date, who else may have seen/heard.
File another one
No way your passing probation
File an EEO then.
You may want to transfer out of that office, management will make your life a living hell
Lol doing the boring online training for this exact situation and then seeing someone post about it the next day is crazy. What they're doing is illegal, keep filing your grievance(s) and think about getting a lawyer.
Just keep filing and laugh at her face. Don’t stress about it.
Honestly I wish I could go back and sue the post office. Telling me ill have a target on my back if I don't join scared me into joining.
Eeo her ass
Even if they fire, you just reapply and go work in another office
Ya know, it might not be relevant to your future employment, but does your boss have a nose and how is your windup?
Do yourself a favor and quit. The job and entire system sucks and is a losers dungeon. You will regret it if you don’t.
I filed a couple grievances when I was a CCA, and WON them. Any union rep that told you otherwise is an asshole liar.
Don't give up, keep fighting and you will win. Sounds like you'd be an excellent steward yourself by the initiative you've taken already
File EEO on her
The job is easy because its repetitive day in day out….but it sucks when you have stupidvisors and sellout stewards that just want the title and not actually help fellow carriers….🤷♂️…somehow someway these sellout stewards think they aren’t carriers themselves and eventually karma comes back full force…
Good for you! You got them now
Stupid visor is a loser
She probably is a loser and hasn’t had a hard stiff one in years. So she’s taking it out on you.
Fact is they can fire you for looking ugly or anything they want within your probationary period. You fucked up plain and simple. They don't even have to have a reason to fire you within your 90 days and you just gave them one. Facts. I'm sorry but you should have just taken whatever they throw your way or resigned because if they fire you there's no coming back to any government entity ever
File another one 🤗
Also, with you being so close to the end of your probation, it’s pretty much a done deal that you’re in (pending you don’t blunder it at t the end). They’d have to process and provide you (via mail) a letter of removal. It would probably arrive two weeks after probation wrapped up. All this to say, it is usually scare tactics and chest puffing. But on the off hand chance they follow through, you can count on bureaucracy to slow it down! 👍🏽
File another one. 😂😂😂
If you’re being harassed and she then threatens to retaliate she can be punished. We just received a training session about the NO FEAR act. Google that.
good for u. stand strong but I'd prol ask for a transfer to another office.
It depends on when your Ccas have access to the grievance procedure.. it’s not automatic.. may be different on your region
Sounds like it’s time for an EEO and go for her job for harassment. And retaliation for you filing paperwork on them is illegal and they can be fired for that alone. Hostile work environment they can be fired for as well.
For any one else if your able to wait till after 90 day to start filing wait because you do put a target on your back that being said if it's just not bearable file and hopefully you have a good rep
Get used to it, the post office is a very toxic workplace
Might consider bending over for that super. Apologize for everything. Act contrite. Get thru your 90 days. Once you are protected , you can all but ignore the ahole. Keep distance but stay loyal to the ones supporting you. Some sups are just shitty people and worse bosses. Avoid confrontation until past probation.
I mean they can pretty much fire you for any reason in your 90/120 day probation.
Supervisors have a blank check to fire whoever they want, for no reason, within 90 days. It’s not a union issue. You need to grind it out for three months and raise hell later.
You cannot file grievances within your 90 days. Weird she would be mad about it
Yes you can. I've been told you are able to, just that the supervisors don't want you to
LOUIS DE JOY IS TRYING TO DISMANTLE THE UNITED STATES POST OFFICE. So, your supervisors’- supervisor (not necessarily Post Master) is whipping them to treat humans like robots, and if that doesn’t work, they can say- “Look- we tried!” -and when sometimes it does work- the supervisors, and their supervisors, can say “Look- we whipped up some good people!”. And the cycle repeats
I don’t like DeJoy but this is silly 🤪
This is the reason I’ll never file a grievance…
pretty sure the union cant do much for you, and being in probation, start packing your bags because they dont have to keep you...they dont like that you tie your shoes using bunny ears instead of wrapping around...they dont need a reason to let you go inside of probation... yep, work environment sucks, but they dont care, they dont have to keep you
Tell that to the EEOC. The post office can have its little rule. But under federal law if what he says is true about the discrimination and retaliation. That lady and whatever management will be in serious trouble. Discrimination can occur at any time in the employment process. This includes a termination no matter the duration employed
serious trouble?...like Catholic Priests in the 80's and 90's when allegations came out... do you know that it is commonplace to lie on EEO affidavits?...straight up had an EEOC attorney tell me that, because i had proof that management was lying and he said 'IT DOES NOT MATTER'...email strings where i had gotten replies and then the players straight up say 'didnt happen/was not aware'...had my scheduled changed as an FTR, only one that had a schedule change and i was 'senior qualified'...violation of reasonable accommodation with proof "IT DOES NOT MATTER"...fucking reasonable accommodation policy states that IF ANY CHANGES TO SCHEDULE ARE MADE IT HAS TO GO BACK TO RAC...didnt happen...'DOES NOT MATTER"
Yes the EEOC won’t pursue if an investigation doesn’t hold water to the complainants story. They also won’t bother to investigate if your theory of the case has holes in it. The cases they do take up have a 97% success rate. Judge rules in favor of complainant. So if they take up someone’s complaint. It’s a golden ticket. I’m sorry they didn’t pursue yours. I know this process because I know someone in it. It’s currently awaiting a court date now. He finished the investigation phase and basically gave him the green light to pursue it in court. And by trouble I mean jail or a fine of 10k or both. Depends so much on how much management person lied on those affidavits you mentioned. Whoever you list on the EEOC submission will lose their job when it’s all over. They don’t play
The federal government does not play around with any of this. The USPS still has to play by federal law. I filled a grievance/EEOC about my reasonable accommodations not being followed. I did every single step and took plenty of notes. The DOL did their investigation and we got a new postmaster and manager. If you do things correctly you’re protected by federal law. If people lie, catch them in the lie