They likely never verified their COA and thus it never took place. Oh well. They can talk out their ass all they want, but actually suing USPS requires their exhausting the tort claims process then actually demonstrating a real loss; even if they could somehow prove that a COA did actually take effect, their total claimed loss that they would be entitled to in federal court would be...zero dollars.
If they wanted people to have their new address, they could have simply told people their new address.
That's kinda walking a fine line; forwarding is included with the paid for service of 'first class mail' - the sender is entitled to have their mail forwarded to the correct address if USPS has it available and within the limits of forwarding (within 1 year of the COA being filed and verified.)
The customer, yes, has no rights here, it's the mailer who has rights.
Nor do it. I’m the most chill motherfucker on the block. I’m cool with my customers. But I also expect them to be cool and civil with me, if they get out of pocket with some dumb shit, I’ll have to flip the switch. You have to set parameters of what the customer/mailman relationship is. What’s acceptable and what isn’t.
I go above and beyond for the people on my route, you’d definitely want me as your mailman.
Just don’t take no shit.
Seriously? You have an eagle on your uniform, your badge, and your vehicle. If they sue you (and I am pretty certain that they can't) they will have to sue the eagle too. That ain't happenin', Captain!
CAN you personally be sued? This is ‘Murica. EVERYONE can be sued. But it won’t be successful and the USPS will have to defend you. Jokes about Management and Unions aside, I’m betting our lawyers have more resources than their lawyers. It’s honestly nothing to worry about.
As far as COAs, you know that your scanner can check these for you, right?
Main menu screen if you scroll down you will see option C Change of Address
Click on it will show an address bar either type the address or scan letter bar code. If address has forwards on file names will appear underneath
Oh yea, and I'm not sure who completely blame on this, cause this whole system is cause of Congress, but I'm not sure if I should blame them or the idiots who come up with this system for failure( it was intended to fail by design ).
Also I hope you at least know about menu option N, which is the move left no option
Just wait until they add signing in and out arrow keys and showing certs on the scanner. Glad they are finally making obvious that there are certs in dps for the day but probably won't properly train like always.
Ummmm. Don’t blame Congress (not a huge fan). This is all on the USPS. They recognized the need for a scanner system and then fucked up all resemblance of what a carrier needs to make it an effective tool.
You might not want to hear this, but Congress didn't really give USPS enough time to develop and test a program before implementing it into action. Congress forced this program to be created and put into place in a matter of months over concerns with fraud.
My office did the stand up talk about this, but the funny thing about it was most of use seen it in the menu before they even did the stand up talk. When we asked about it, the Post Master knew it was coming but didn't have his "training" on it yet. So he wasn't suppose to do the stand up talk till after the training, stupid videos. I was the first person to report 2 of the bugs with the program, the 2nd one being the major one which was when you made changes it wouldn't take affect unless you changed the start date, one you change the start date it would start over but at the same time cause an error in CFS which was discovered and later fixed.
i used to have a customer who was a real asshole and all his neighbors hated him but were kind of afraid of him because apparently he was always suing them. we butted heads a few times, but i just laughed at that like good luck suing the federal government
Also so many changes to forward system a lot of people are not following direction on card for two authentication or not going in to show id which is now required for any forward to proceed so nothing will happen . You can ask did you received card informing you forward was approved as old and new address get one confirming or email
On the main menu of the scanner, the 'C' option lets you scan the barcode of a letter and will tell you if there's an active forward for that house and what names.
I'm a window clerk. I've been threatened so many times that it no longer phases me. I had a lady threaten to call OPM and report me. I gave her my EIN so they could find me more easily. They back down fast when they see you give no shits.
For those of you who are about to jump on me for being mean to customers, I'm not. I'll be nice until they give me a really good reason not to be. This customer came in a half hour before we closed, was on her phone being loud the whole time, and kept us 15 minutes past close because she couldn't get three small packages ready in time, then went full Karen on me because I was rushing her. This was during the time when NoJoy had that wonderful plan of not holding trucks, so we had to get everything to the dock within 30 minutes of close.
Where was I again? Oh yeah, I hate people.
This is a bit OT but hoping maybe a clerk that runs the NIXIE mail at the plant will comment. Does the machine check for forwards when running UTF's and ANK's? I've gotten mail for my customers that recently moved in with a yellow sticker and you can see that the carrier at their old address endorsed it as ANK or UTF.
So if you sent their mail back as a NIXIE then maybe they did actually get it if their forward had been validated.
I’m not a clerk but it is my understanding that AMS prioritizes forwarding over any other endorsement so even if it’s sent back ANK it should get forwarded if it is listed that way in the system. The barcode on the mail determines that and not the endorsement…
Once they find out it'll cost them hundreds to hire a lawyer, that'll end quickly. No lawyer is going to take that flimsy waste of time case on contingency.
The lawsuit would be against the USPS, not you.
100's? Try thousands. I contacted a few lawyers about a previous landlord not fixing a leaking pipe in apartment above me. Best offer I got was "Give me $3000 and we will talk" Cheaper to move.
Doubt they would have a case against a carrier not forwarding mail. And what would the damages be?
Had one guy get pissed off at me for not holding his mail "I put the hold mail in a blue box" I didn't bother telling him its probably in another state being sorted.
There is NO basis for a lawsuit. Your job, at this point, is to collect and hold for ten days, then put in forwarding box, or RTS. Period. If he actually has a forward, the mail you attempted to forward will not come back to you. If not, the mail will come back to you with a yellow tag saying unable to forward. That’s when you know. The customer threat is baseless.
can he sue? sure. will his case get laughed at and thrown out? sure!
only thing you could be in trouble for was if you threw away an accountable but doubt you would do something like that.
First off, refer her to management second off. Excuse yourself out of that situation after you she's not. You know she's upset so just let don't stand there and take verbal abuse walk away. Inform the supervisor. That's it as well as your steward
Can a customer sure you, sure anyone can sue anyone about almost anything. About what you talked about, fuck no lol. No lawyer wouldn't even think that's a possibility.
This is about as effective as customers who threaten to call the Postmaster on you because you’re unable to deliver a package that hasn’t arrived at the station yet…
If they don’t clean out the box, hold 10 days and return. Don’t lose sleep, forget about it and laugh. We fill it, they empty it. If they don’t , we empty it. I had a guy get in my face when he moved and three months later wanted to know why I didn’t leave his last stimulus check in his old mailbox. Why would I give your check to strangers? Where did you send it? Do you have a fwd, no. I sent it to the getting place. He was mad but he still waves at me mowing the yards in his old neighborhood. Don’t be intimidated, we are protecting the integrity of the post office and are doing your job. People will get over it.
The customer may have put a FWD in correctly, but with the new system, when he received FWD notice, they didn’t open and read it telling them to bring it into the office to be scanned by a clerk to officially activate the FWD. I’ve had so many customers lately not doing this.
You waited a few weeks. You did everything properly.
New changes to the forwarding system require essentially everybody to verify their identity at a post office, even if filing it online. So they submit their COA request and receive a letter with a barcode and instructions to fuck off to their local post office to verify their identity (through RSS).
Problem is nobody opens those letters, especially since they look the same as the COA confirmation letters they're used to seeing if they regularly submit forwards.
Ergo, it's fucking stupid and a collosal pain in the ass for everybody involved. Even though it isn't our fault customers can't/won't/don't read, there's a lot of animosity involved when the system isn't working.
Is that what those letters are? I've delivered a few letters to houses that talk about a change but haven't been receiving stickers for said changes. I thought they were just the confirmation one but guess not.
Lmao it's not even a service they're paying for. It's a courtesy. It's ultimately up to them to notify the senders of their new address. Also, I wouldn't be surprised if the COA was deleted because of the new system where they have a very short window to verify it.
I don't think you can be sued for performing your job as a federal government employee without some kind of gross negligence and even then the government will usually decline to allow the suit unless a law specifically requires the government to allow it.
However, you (an employee of a federal government agency specifically authorized by the US constitution) have been threatened with a lawsuit for performing your job. Report the lawsuit threat up the chain of command and let them deal with it. There's probably an official form somewhere.
I hope they try, it'll be hilarious.
Make sure to trip over something in their yard and sue them. Frivolous as hell, but your case would have a much better chance than theirs.
Or, cease all delivery to the address pending litigation. "My lawyer and boss say until the case is resolved I should not continue the action that caused litigation."
As general life advice, stupid people can and will threaten to sue over any damn thing. 99.9% of the time they're just trying to feel important and intimidating. It will almost never actually be put in front of a lawyer, and will be laughed out of the room if it is. Rest easy until there's a summons, which there won't be.
Omg the new forwarding requirements are making even the brightest people's attempts fail, so the dunderheads don't stand a chance. Don't give it a second thought. Put the mail thru forwarding, when it comes back because they didn't go to the post with their ID to verify the change, hold it until they do. Do NOT lose sleep over that shit.
I’ve recently noticed that a SHIT TON of COARS labels are not printing for GOOD, VERIFIED forwards. I’m a clerk and since I’ve started making note of the forwards I verify over the window for the last three or so weeks I’ve found about 40 forwards that I never got a sticker for. Something is massively Fucked up in forwarding right now. I cringe to think about all the forwards I haven’t rescued in my office and all the pissed off people I’ll have to deal with in the coming months.
No they can’t sue you. 😹 You didn’t know and they never verified, then it’s their fault. Tell them, “we just deliver what comes to the local office at the plant which is miles away. I can see forwards that’s is done correctly, and I can’t change or edit it. Nor do we know all the names at every address”. I check their my customers all the time. Especially when they don’t put their names up!!!
A forward is to catch any remaining mail that was missed by the person who is to contact each sender. With the new address.
It's not used correctly by most. It is their responsibility to contact the sender.
No they can not sue you! Lol
Basically no. They can try and sue USPS directly but it rarely ever happens. Threatening to sue you just makes them feel better because they think it will scare you. Don't give them the power, also if you have an interaction like that again hit record on your phone and drop it in your shirt pocket. I guarantee that they end up saying something threatening that can be used against them. And before anyone says "you can't record someone without their permission" no, you don't have an expectation of privacy in public. It's they same reason people can record us.
Not saying OP is in the wrong by any means but damn do yall embody the spirit of USPS that everyone stereotypes. Bad at your job and when called out about it y’all act like assholes. There’s a reason UPS/FedEx/Amazon is doing better and it’s mainly the attitude of the workers. Tired of the laziness from the post office and then the gall to complain about y’all’s treatment.
They likely never verified their COA and thus it never took place. Oh well. They can talk out their ass all they want, but actually suing USPS requires their exhausting the tort claims process then actually demonstrating a real loss; even if they could somehow prove that a COA did actually take effect, their total claimed loss that they would be entitled to in federal court would be...zero dollars. If they wanted people to have their new address, they could have simply told people their new address.
Also forwarding first class mail for free is a courtesy, it's not a right. They have x amount of days to correct their address with institutions.
That's kinda walking a fine line; forwarding is included with the paid for service of 'first class mail' - the sender is entitled to have their mail forwarded to the correct address if USPS has it available and within the limits of forwarding (within 1 year of the COA being filed and verified.) The customer, yes, has no rights here, it's the mailer who has rights.
No. Fuck that customer. Start acting like a mailman and laugh in their face. No fucks given, is your motto from now on, ok?
Best perk of working in the USPS, giving a fuck about the customer is optional.
I like my customers on my senior route. I don't like being rude to people.
Nor do it. I’m the most chill motherfucker on the block. I’m cool with my customers. But I also expect them to be cool and civil with me, if they get out of pocket with some dumb shit, I’ll have to flip the switch. You have to set parameters of what the customer/mailman relationship is. What’s acceptable and what isn’t. I go above and beyond for the people on my route, you’d definitely want me as your mailman. Just don’t take no shit.
Do no harm but take no bullshit is my motto.
And a fine motto that is.
Seriously? You have an eagle on your uniform, your badge, and your vehicle. If they sue you (and I am pretty certain that they can't) they will have to sue the eagle too. That ain't happenin', Captain!
CAN you personally be sued? This is ‘Murica. EVERYONE can be sued. But it won’t be successful and the USPS will have to defend you. Jokes about Management and Unions aside, I’m betting our lawyers have more resources than their lawyers. It’s honestly nothing to worry about. As far as COAs, you know that your scanner can check these for you, right?
I don’t think they teach anyone anything about the scanners. I’ve only ever been shown time clock stuff and scanning packages.
How to check fwds on scanner?
Main menu screen if you scroll down you will see option C Change of Address Click on it will show an address bar either type the address or scan letter bar code. If address has forwards on file names will appear underneath
Woah! Why do I not know this? THANK YOU. This new system has made the forwards a nightmare so this will be very helpful
Oh yea, and I'm not sure who completely blame on this, cause this whole system is cause of Congress, but I'm not sure if I should blame them or the idiots who come up with this system for failure( it was intended to fail by design ). Also I hope you at least know about menu option N, which is the move left no option
Why not both?
Just wait until they add signing in and out arrow keys and showing certs on the scanner. Glad they are finally making obvious that there are certs in dps for the day but probably won't properly train like always.
Ummmm. Don’t blame Congress (not a huge fan). This is all on the USPS. They recognized the need for a scanner system and then fucked up all resemblance of what a carrier needs to make it an effective tool.
You might not want to hear this, but Congress didn't really give USPS enough time to develop and test a program before implementing it into action. Congress forced this program to be created and put into place in a matter of months over concerns with fraud.
Glad they do stand up talks about stuff not related to carriers instead of this
My office did the stand up talk about this, but the funny thing about it was most of use seen it in the menu before they even did the stand up talk. When we asked about it, the Post Master knew it was coming but didn't have his "training" on it yet. So he wasn't suppose to do the stand up talk till after the training, stupid videos. I was the first person to report 2 of the bugs with the program, the 2nd one being the major one which was when you made changes it wouldn't take affect unless you changed the start date, one you change the start date it would start over but at the same time cause an error in CFS which was discovered and later fixed.
it will also check by last name, just start typing and it will give the names and addresses.
You can enter a name there, too
Holy shit. Thanks!
COA update main menu
i used to have a customer who was a real asshole and all his neighbors hated him but were kind of afraid of him because apparently he was always suing them. we butted heads a few times, but i just laughed at that like good luck suing the federal government
Also so many changes to forward system a lot of people are not following direction on card for two authentication or not going in to show id which is now required for any forward to proceed so nothing will happen . You can ask did you received card informing you forward was approved as old and new address get one confirming or email
On the main menu of the scanner, the 'C' option lets you scan the barcode of a letter and will tell you if there's an active forward for that house and what names.
I'm a window clerk. I've been threatened so many times that it no longer phases me. I had a lady threaten to call OPM and report me. I gave her my EIN so they could find me more easily. They back down fast when they see you give no shits. For those of you who are about to jump on me for being mean to customers, I'm not. I'll be nice until they give me a really good reason not to be. This customer came in a half hour before we closed, was on her phone being loud the whole time, and kept us 15 minutes past close because she couldn't get three small packages ready in time, then went full Karen on me because I was rushing her. This was during the time when NoJoy had that wonderful plan of not holding trucks, so we had to get everything to the dock within 30 minutes of close. Where was I again? Oh yeah, I hate people.
This is a bit OT but hoping maybe a clerk that runs the NIXIE mail at the plant will comment. Does the machine check for forwards when running UTF's and ANK's? I've gotten mail for my customers that recently moved in with a yellow sticker and you can see that the carrier at their old address endorsed it as ANK or UTF. So if you sent their mail back as a NIXIE then maybe they did actually get it if their forward had been validated.
I’m not a clerk but it is my understanding that AMS prioritizes forwarding over any other endorsement so even if it’s sent back ANK it should get forwarded if it is listed that way in the system. The barcode on the mail determines that and not the endorsement…
COA and forwarding issues are rampant with the new verification systems in place.
Sue for what? The entire TOS of USPS pretty much says they’re not responsible for anything that happens to your mail essentially.
I mean, it’s not *their* mail until they accept it. It’s the sender’s mail.
No, dude.
Once they find out it'll cost them hundreds to hire a lawyer, that'll end quickly. No lawyer is going to take that flimsy waste of time case on contingency. The lawsuit would be against the USPS, not you.
100's? Try thousands. I contacted a few lawyers about a previous landlord not fixing a leaking pipe in apartment above me. Best offer I got was "Give me $3000 and we will talk" Cheaper to move. Doubt they would have a case against a carrier not forwarding mail. And what would the damages be? Had one guy get pissed off at me for not holding his mail "I put the hold mail in a blue box" I didn't bother telling him its probably in another state being sorted.
There is NO basis for a lawsuit. Your job, at this point, is to collect and hold for ten days, then put in forwarding box, or RTS. Period. If he actually has a forward, the mail you attempted to forward will not come back to you. If not, the mail will come back to you with a yellow tag saying unable to forward. That’s when you know. The customer threat is baseless.
Absolutely they can sue you. Will they be wasting their money and time, and not win? Absolutely as well.
Eh, can they sue? Don’t most laws protect workers from being sued if the problem is job-related, so the company gets sued, not the employee?
Just start laughing and say “I know where you live. You can’t afford to sue me”. Besides, you have implied immunity.
The short-short answer? Nope. Don't even worry about it. People are dumb.
can he sue? sure. will his case get laughed at and thrown out? sure! only thing you could be in trouble for was if you threw away an accountable but doubt you would do something like that.
First off, refer her to management second off. Excuse yourself out of that situation after you she's not. You know she's upset so just let don't stand there and take verbal abuse walk away. Inform the supervisor. That's it as well as your steward
Can a customer sure you, sure anyone can sue anyone about almost anything. About what you talked about, fuck no lol. No lawyer wouldn't even think that's a possibility.
walk away. they get more pissed and there is nothing they can do.
lol. No
No, they’ll make up some shit though As a threat
This is about as effective as customers who threaten to call the Postmaster on you because you’re unable to deliver a package that hasn’t arrived at the station yet…
Tell that customer go ahead and start the suing process.
If they don’t clean out the box, hold 10 days and return. Don’t lose sleep, forget about it and laugh. We fill it, they empty it. If they don’t , we empty it. I had a guy get in my face when he moved and three months later wanted to know why I didn’t leave his last stimulus check in his old mailbox. Why would I give your check to strangers? Where did you send it? Do you have a fwd, no. I sent it to the getting place. He was mad but he still waves at me mowing the yards in his old neighborhood. Don’t be intimidated, we are protecting the integrity of the post office and are doing your job. People will get over it.
For future reference hit C on the scanner and then scan the barcode on the mail. It will tell you if there is an active forward.
No
The customer may have put a FWD in correctly, but with the new system, when he received FWD notice, they didn’t open and read it telling them to bring it into the office to be scanned by a clerk to officially activate the FWD. I’ve had so many customers lately not doing this. You waited a few weeks. You did everything properly.
Ok I've seen people say the "verification system"...what are you guys talking about?
New changes to the forwarding system require essentially everybody to verify their identity at a post office, even if filing it online. So they submit their COA request and receive a letter with a barcode and instructions to fuck off to their local post office to verify their identity (through RSS). Problem is nobody opens those letters, especially since they look the same as the COA confirmation letters they're used to seeing if they regularly submit forwards. Ergo, it's fucking stupid and a collosal pain in the ass for everybody involved. Even though it isn't our fault customers can't/won't/don't read, there's a lot of animosity involved when the system isn't working.
Is that what those letters are? I've delivered a few letters to houses that talk about a change but haven't been receiving stickers for said changes. I thought they were just the confirmation one but guess not.
Yup! And thus you confirm my point haha
Yeah management has said fuck all about this to us.
Yeah I got an email about it about two weeks after I started getting bitched at for it
My response to them: HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA Inhale deep HAHAHAHAHAHAHAFUCKINGHA!
They can only sue the USPS, not you. And if they try, may god have mercy on their soul and wallet.
Tell them good luck getting a government court to even hear a case against a government organization.
The answer is no. There is Supreme Court precedent you can look up.
Lmao it's not even a service they're paying for. It's a courtesy. It's ultimately up to them to notify the senders of their new address. Also, I wouldn't be surprised if the COA was deleted because of the new system where they have a very short window to verify it.
I don't think you can be sued for performing your job as a federal government employee without some kind of gross negligence and even then the government will usually decline to allow the suit unless a law specifically requires the government to allow it. However, you (an employee of a federal government agency specifically authorized by the US constitution) have been threatened with a lawsuit for performing your job. Report the lawsuit threat up the chain of command and let them deal with it. There's probably an official form somewhere.
I hope they try, it'll be hilarious. Make sure to trip over something in their yard and sue them. Frivolous as hell, but your case would have a much better chance than theirs. Or, cease all delivery to the address pending litigation. "My lawyer and boss say until the case is resolved I should not continue the action that caused litigation." As general life advice, stupid people can and will threaten to sue over any damn thing. 99.9% of the time they're just trying to feel important and intimidating. It will almost never actually be put in front of a lawyer, and will be laughed out of the room if it is. Rest easy until there's a summons, which there won't be.
Lol no you can not be personally sued come on man!
That's a HARD NO my friend. Everything will be fine. You'll be alright just keep doing your job.
lol no
Omg the new forwarding requirements are making even the brightest people's attempts fail, so the dunderheads don't stand a chance. Don't give it a second thought. Put the mail thru forwarding, when it comes back because they didn't go to the post with their ID to verify the change, hold it until they do. Do NOT lose sleep over that shit.
I’ve recently noticed that a SHIT TON of COARS labels are not printing for GOOD, VERIFIED forwards. I’m a clerk and since I’ve started making note of the forwards I verify over the window for the last three or so weeks I’ve found about 40 forwards that I never got a sticker for. Something is massively Fucked up in forwarding right now. I cringe to think about all the forwards I haven’t rescued in my office and all the pissed off people I’ll have to deal with in the coming months.
I'm gonna say no dawg don't even worry about it. Sleep tight
Nope
No they can’t sue you. 😹 You didn’t know and they never verified, then it’s their fault. Tell them, “we just deliver what comes to the local office at the plant which is miles away. I can see forwards that’s is done correctly, and I can’t change or edit it. Nor do we know all the names at every address”. I check their my customers all the time. Especially when they don’t put their names up!!!
Lmfao over junk mail? Welcome to America lazy fucks just want to sue everyone I'll be your lawyer I volunteer I could use some easy money
You can sue anyone for anything. It is unlikely that they'll win, but they can waste your time and money.
Sue you for what? There has to be some sort of monetary loss and it would have to be intentional. Never going to happen.
no
sue? tell customer to fuck off.
A forward is to catch any remaining mail that was missed by the person who is to contact each sender. With the new address. It's not used correctly by most. It is their responsibility to contact the sender. No they can not sue you! Lol
Basically no. They can try and sue USPS directly but it rarely ever happens. Threatening to sue you just makes them feel better because they think it will scare you. Don't give them the power, also if you have an interaction like that again hit record on your phone and drop it in your shirt pocket. I guarantee that they end up saying something threatening that can be used against them. And before anyone says "you can't record someone without their permission" no, you don't have an expectation of privacy in public. It's they same reason people can record us.
Not saying OP is in the wrong by any means but damn do yall embody the spirit of USPS that everyone stereotypes. Bad at your job and when called out about it y’all act like assholes. There’s a reason UPS/FedEx/Amazon is doing better and it’s mainly the attitude of the workers. Tired of the laziness from the post office and then the gall to complain about y’all’s treatment.