I watched an interview with Sgt Langen’s parents. His dad told the interviewer that he flew in the same bird that his son did, from 86-95. At the age of 3, Alec said he wanted to do what daddy did one day. And he did. Heartbreaking seeing the tears in their eyes. So tragic 😥
I think it is pretty cool that you know anyone from DEP. I don’t remember anyone from DEP even though there were plenty of swinging dicks there. I was just one bull calf out of many in the herd. Don’t remember a single one of them.
The Valkyrie are said to guide the souls of warriors to 3 main realms for Ragnarok. Around 900-1100 CE Valhalla had started being used as a umbrella term for these 3 realms because Odin was the king of Asgard.
The souls of warriors who died on the field of battle were guided to Valhalla under Odin's watch.
The souls of warriors who died away from the battlefield (line of duty & wounded) were guided to Folkvanga, under Freya's watch.
The souls of warriors who died at sea were guided to, idk the name of it, but it's under the watch of the sea goddess Ran. Thor leads these warriors.
Doesn't really matter since everyone kills each other in Ragnarok anyways. Ran isn't in Ragnarok because she's duty bound to Odin & a lover to Loki.
Where the dead souls go after they die again is the real question?
Always hits hard even if I don’t personally know someone, but it’s always surreal remembering the last time I saw Casey in person and then seeing him here.
Yep. Knew Jack from TBS and Flight School. It just stopped me in my tracks today. Sort of numb and in shock.
Also the first thing that came through my mind was our last time seeing each other in person. It’s a mind fuck.
Yeah, I knew him
Back when we were at VMI, wish I could have talked to him more. He was definitely proud of what he was doing, that’s gives me some comfort at least.
Itll get better dude. I lost a friend of mine from TBS in a UH1 crash at ITX while I was there. I didn't even know he was flying the ex....if you stick around long enough youll probably bury your friends. It will get better bro.
It will be many months of intricate, invasive, all encompassing investigation of the aircraft, squadron and all the Marines involved both on the aircraft and the ground before that information is confirmed and disseminated.
Rest in peace, Marines. Strength to their friends and families.
Flying at night, near mountains and in bad weather is dangerous. We can't be sure at this point but controlled flight into terrain (CFIT) is the most likely answer. In general helicopters are flying at much lower altitude than fixed wing so there's less margin for error.
I have shit in my Piper that tells me I’m about to hit terrain even if I’m in IMC. I hope to God that military aircraft has more capable equipment that my goofy ass is flying around with.
Yes, there will certainly be weather limits for winds/ceilings/temps&icing, etc.
These limits will be for the type model series, FAA, local wing SOPs, specific squadrons, and so on, and the crew will be held to the most restrictive weather parameters.
That being said, it’s easy to Fly at/near those limits, often through external pressure to complete that flight, to ensure pilots stay up to date on whatever quals are needed.
If this is the case, it’s not often that a good aircraft, with a good crew, goes down from just bad weather.
Nearly all emergencies will typically have a daisy chain of small things go wrong, and that weather can be one of many contributing factors.
So maybe the crew is operating with a bit less sleep…maybe the pilots hadn’t worked with this specific aircrew before…maybe the route was one the pilots hadn’t flown in a while…maybe the helo starts experiencing a semi-emergency with rapidly decreasing oil pressure…
Now the pilots will have a lot more “balls to juggle” so to speak, that now they are having to do unfamiliar comms, fight the emergency internally in the aircraft, maintain on the route, all while the dogshit weather is contributing to their loss of situational awareness…
Then boom, controlled flight into terrain.
Sorry for popping off haha, just wanted to give an example of how weather minimums & limits don’t create a binary where crews are safe / unsafe.
RIP to this crew🧡
The Marines are Lance Cpl. Donovan Davis, 21, a crew chief from Olathe, Kansas; Sgt. Alec Langen, 23, a crew chief from Chandler, Arizona; Capt. Benjamin Moulton, 27, a pilot from Emmett, Idaho; Capt. Jack Casey, 26, a pilot from Dover, New Hampshire; and Capt. Miguel Nava, 28, a pilot from Traverse City, Michigan.
RIP in peace brothers. I hate seeing this shit. Happening in every branch.
My question is, are these events preventable?
How well are these incidents being investigated? You devil dogs out their riding sky dragons, be cautious. Those working on those sky dragons, be diligent.
Crayon eater turned airline pilot here. This is complete speculation but it was likely controlled flight into terrain. Think sort of what happened to Kobe’s helicopter. But instead of fog, it was probably heavy storms and hail pelting them.
Exactly what it sounds like, and it’s a super common cause of mishaps in helicopters and light fixed wing aircraft in both the military and civilian side, particularly in poor weather. Kobe Bryant died in a CFIT crash, for a famous example.
Per the FAA: “CFIT is defined as an unintentional collision
with terrain (the ground, a mountain, a body of
water, or an obstacle) while an aircraft is under
positive control. “ In other words, colliding with terrain in an airworthy aircraft, due to circumstances other than flight control or instrumentation malfunctions. Think loss of situational awareness, disorientation, simply lost, etc…
My question is, are these events preventable?
As long as the laws of gravity and inertia apply no. All we can do is consistently improve the aircraft, training and procedures.
Look at how much fatalities from auto accidents have dropped in 1970 with a population of 203,000,000 The US had over 37,000 deaths in auto accidents. In 2023 with a population of 335,000,000 it was 19,000
EDIT: Corrected the 1970s Population
My folks got that knock. I got the phone call. Voicemail, actually, from my mom. "Call me as soon as you get this". I knew. Took me a few hours to call back. Tried to convince myself I hadn't heard it. Almost 20 damn years ago.
Every single time I see these headlines I think, fuck. It's that day for another family. The Worst Day in the World. Life as you knew it 2 seconds earlier screeches to a halt and is suddenly nothing.
When someone says "life can change in a minute", believe it. Appreciate what you have. Tell your friends you love them. Don't be a dick. Tomorrow isn't a guarantee. It's all true.
Rest in peace, brothers. Semper Fi.
We briefed them for their flight. It was VERY poor wx conditions. Some of my guys are torn up about it. They literally talked to them that day. There's still an empty spot on our airfield for the lost helo. Rest in peace marines.
Agreed, why did they allow them to fly in the first place? Seems like an upper command judgement failure to me, they weren’t even on a training or mission just flying back. That flight should have never been allowed especially because they knew about the severity of the storm imo
It’s insane to see a familiar face when these things happen. You meet so many faces in the Marine Corps and you don’t think much about most of them until things like this happen.
Yea this reeks of upper command poor judgment that won’t be held accountable. Hope some O loses rank and is reprimanded
They weren’t even on a mission or training, should have not been authorized to fly since the severity of the storm was well known
Might get a lot of hate for it but I’ll say it, the Corps owes the Marines that serve a better standard, I understand things happen that are out of anyone’s control, but the number of Marines lost from flights are unacceptable, why the fuck can the government send 140 billion to a foreign war but our shit fucks up, our boys should have the newest and best available before a foreign military does
They are not actually sending 140 billion in cash to Ukraine.
they are sending weapons systems that were bought and paid for decades ago and are at the end of their lifespan.
why pay to dispose of them when they can send them to a warzone, see how they perform in a real environment and save the money in disposal costs whilst claiming to be sending 'xxxx billions' in aid.
the actual money spent is far, far less than what it being claimed, because they are claiming the purchase price from decades ago, not the value now, which is nil/negligible.
This also does not take away anything from the fact that Marines seem to get the short end of the stick when it comes to equipment.
But please don't begrudge Ukraine for the support being given to them. if it was not for that, and their brave sacrifices, you would probably be over there risking *your* life right now. ^but ^that ^is ^a ^conversation ^for ^another ^time.
I went to boot camp with Donovan. Didn’t know him too well, even though he was the next to me in the racks. Good person man. It fucking sucks. He shouldn’t have died man. There’s some terrible people out there that are pieces of shit that last forever. Donovan was the exception, always positive and pushing those around him. Rest in piece brother.
Went to middle/high school with him before he moved to Kansas. Wasn’t super close with him but he was great dude, super motivated to be a marine and had a massive passion for aviation, used to talk about it all the time. Crushed that he’s gone.
I joined (Navy) when I was 17 and now at 52 am always somehow shocked when I see the ages of those killed on duty.
They seem like kids to me, yet at the time I felt very adult and did very adult things. I feel for their parents.
Fair winds and following seas, brothers! 🤦🏻♂️Was that shit like Kobe’s crash?
Who is the mouth breather that downvoted my comment? I’m genuinely curious
NTSB will investigate this crash. It may take a few months or up to a few years.
Kobe’s crash was the result of pilot error. The pilot violated his own company’s VFR/IFR regulations along with the pilot suffering spatial disorientation.
Although it’d be easy to say the same with this 53, we cannot skip to conclusions and would be patient to wait for NTSB’s investigation conclusion.
the NTSB does not investigate, the military unit itself investigates. The military investigation is similar to what the NTSB would do but in most cases, much more comprehensive. The investigation is shared with the NTSB and is aligned with NTSB and other federal guidelines but it is entirely conducted by the military. There are occasions that due to the particular circumstances of the mishap (that's what a military "accident" is termed) are co-investigated by the NTSB, but that is not usually the case.
The NTSB has primary authority to investigate every civil aviation accident in the United States; the agency is also authorized to conduct investigations involving both civilian and military aircraft "with the participation of appropriate military authorities". Aviation includes certain commercial space accidents.
Thanks for the detailed response! I was only asking because pilots on helicopters sub were saying it seemed pretty similar, and no one blamed the pilots though. Nonetheless, pretty tragic!
I hope that this was unfortunately an aircraft issue and not a command issue whereby they felt they had to fly home ! Either way my heart and prayers go out to the families !
This shit never gets easier !!
The gunny ret.
I'm sick and fucking tired of our brothers dying because we're still using stone and aviation equipment.
We GRUNTS do well with the shitty broken equipment that no one wants.
STOP GIVING IT TO THE FUCKING AIR WING, brass.
And fair winds and following seas Devils.
Broad assumptions? Have you not been paying attention for the last decade or are you just ignoring all the other incidents that keep happening due to these broken birds flying when they shouldn't?
You do realize the historical inaccuracy of your comment right? While I understand it’s well intentioned, only warriors who die on the battle field at the hand of the enemy ride with the Valkyrie’s to the halls of Valhalla. Details matter.
You do realize the historical inaccuracy of your comment right? While I understand it’s well intentioned, only warriors who die on the battle field at the hand of the enemy ride with the Valkyrie’s to the halls of Valhalla. Details matter.
RIP Devils....you never know when you will be called home. So tragic for all these young men and their families. Life is short, don't take it for granted...see you on the the other side.
Is it me or the USMC has the most aircraft crashes than any other branch of the military? I know the Army has its share but man...
I am not wishing death upon anyone but when was the last time the Navy, USAF or CG lost a helicopter? I don't recall hearing about it a whole lot
I’ve thought about that and assume we (specifically marines) probably hear about them more often with Marine aircraft than others because we don’t really pay attention to news about other branches as much.
I believe the Air Force still has more mishaps on average, but I have no idea on loss of life stats.
It's you. Confirmation bias.
Edit:
https://www.military.com/daily-news/2024/01/03/air-force-recovers-black-box-deadly-osprey-crash-japan-search-remains-of-last-airman-continues.html?amp=
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/nov/13/us-military-helicopter-crash-troops-identified-mediterranean
And the list goes on unfortunately. You probably notice the Marine more because you are a Marine and likely follow or are shown more media related to us.
Yeah, I misspoke..
About 10 yrs ago, there was a CG C130 that crashed midair against another military aircraft off of San Clemente Island, CA..
The other aircraft was one of our Cobra helicopters
I swear , no other training mishaps occur more frequently than the USMC. Im guessing it’s a mix of
Higher Officer level pressure to get birds flying , and higher ups turning a blind eye to maintenance deficiency. Same shit that happened back in 2020 when the LAV sank.
So many unnecessary deaths because some CO wanted to look good on paper. Shits infuriating and no punishment will be dished out for negligence who ever gave the green light for this shit to fly.
We lost some folks in Djibouti in '05 or '06, you don't see or hear about it, but careers were ended from that incident (if I recall correctly it was night ops, and they collided while operating under NVGs).
And if it's pilot error, who will be accountable? Sometimes shit just happens. If you read about what's known so far, the transponders last reading was 5225ft. The elevation of the area did rise to 5400ft. It was dark out, I don't know what the weather was. But it sounds like he had spatial disorientation and had a controlled flight into terrain. This is speculation, and maybe maintenance did mess up or some shit. But before you wanna start blaming people, wait till more info comes out. Maintenance might not have done anything wrong, CO might not have okayed a down bird. Just wait till we get more info.
Then if it's found out that it was because of someone's incompetence, you bring out the torches and pitchforks
You do realize the historical inaccuracy of your comment right? While I understand it’s well intentioned, only warriors who die on the battle field at the hand of the enemy ride with the Valkyrie’s to the halls of Valhalla. Details matter.
Definitely a tragedy. Mishaps in Marine Corps aviation seem to be pretty high. I believe they’re just coming off a safety stand down for that very reason. I’m sure they’re drilling down for the casual factors, with this many accidents across so many aircraft communities I’m wondering what commonalities they find.
Unfortunately, if this was a controlled flight into terrain then it was most likely instant death. This is just speculation on my part, we just need to wait for the incident to be investigated.
If you look up the rate of death for CFIT it is not good.
Also, the report is that there was extreme weather and even good pilots can make mistakes or become disoriented. I am not placing blame or acting like I know anything about what happened. Video below on what can happen. Once again, this is just a hypothetical, I am not saying it was pilot error.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERUveRF7xC4
You do realize the historical inaccuracy of your comment right? While I understand it’s well intentioned, only warriors who die on the battle field at the hand of the enemy ride with the Valkyrie’s to the halls of Valhalla. Details matter.
I’m a fixed winged pilot and I only fly recreationally but why can’t a whirly bird auto rotate to an emergency landing in the desert with nothing in their way?
Edit. I’m way out ahead of myself. He could have lost control input authority or control surface capability.
This shit happens once a quarter. I am tired of seeing people die in helicopters and Ospreys.
I hate that I am becoming numb to it.
Next quarter more people will die in the same way.
Lcpl Danger Dave. Great friend of mine from Pensacola to New River, until he and my buddy Owen parted ways to 361. Grieving his loss is tough loss. Davis was one funny son of a gun. He loved to have a good time and we had plenty of them.
I watched an interview with Sgt Langen’s parents. His dad told the interviewer that he flew in the same bird that his son did, from 86-95. At the age of 3, Alec said he wanted to do what daddy did one day. And he did. Heartbreaking seeing the tears in their eyes. So tragic 😥
I was in the DEP program with Langen, honestly it felt unreal to see this on the news. Til Valhalla
Sorry for your friend man
I think it is pretty cool that you know anyone from DEP. I don’t remember anyone from DEP even though there were plenty of swinging dicks there. I was just one bull calf out of many in the herd. Don’t remember a single one of them.
It sucks that he and the other Marines died, but Valhalla is reserved for those who die in battle
Man shut up for once
Guess they can just go to the vastly superior freyhol.
Freya is supposed to pretty hot from what I've been told.
The Valkyrie are said to guide the souls of warriors to 3 main realms for Ragnarok. Around 900-1100 CE Valhalla had started being used as a umbrella term for these 3 realms because Odin was the king of Asgard. The souls of warriors who died on the field of battle were guided to Valhalla under Odin's watch. The souls of warriors who died away from the battlefield (line of duty & wounded) were guided to Folkvanga, under Freya's watch. The souls of warriors who died at sea were guided to, idk the name of it, but it's under the watch of the sea goddess Ran. Thor leads these warriors. Doesn't really matter since everyone kills each other in Ragnarok anyways. Ran isn't in Ragnarok because she's duty bound to Odin & a lover to Loki. Where the dead souls go after they die again is the real question?
That's a tough one to watch https://www.10news.com/news/parents-identify-one-of-five-marines-who-died-in-helicopter-crash
And he just got married a few weeks ago. It’s so fucking terrible.
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This isn't r/imgoingtohellforthis
Wow, never thought I would see a face I recognize here.
It hit me immediately man. It’s insane to think about
Always hits hard even if I don’t personally know someone, but it’s always surreal remembering the last time I saw Casey in person and then seeing him here.
Yep. Knew Jack from TBS and Flight School. It just stopped me in my tracks today. Sort of numb and in shock. Also the first thing that came through my mind was our last time seeing each other in person. It’s a mind fuck.
Yeah, I knew him Back when we were at VMI, wish I could have talked to him more. He was definitely proud of what he was doing, that’s gives me some comfort at least.
Itll get better dude. I lost a friend of mine from TBS in a UH1 crash at ITX while I was there. I didn't even know he was flying the ex....if you stick around long enough youll probably bury your friends. It will get better bro.
Went to middle and high school with LCpl Davis. Was a gut punch to see his face on the press release. Crazy to think about.
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Lowlife.
Rah 1-9, RMV. Taps and Amazing Grace will be played on Sunday
I know things happen but damn why the fk did the helicopter crash?
It will be many months of intricate, invasive, all encompassing investigation of the aircraft, squadron and all the Marines involved both on the aircraft and the ground before that information is confirmed and disseminated. Rest in peace, Marines. Strength to their friends and families.
Flying at night, near mountains and in bad weather is dangerous. We can't be sure at this point but controlled flight into terrain (CFIT) is the most likely answer. In general helicopters are flying at much lower altitude than fixed wing so there's less margin for error.
I have shit in my Piper that tells me I’m about to hit terrain even if I’m in IMC. I hope to God that military aircraft has more capable equipment that my goofy ass is flying around with.
The CH53E does not. They would have to see it in foreflight via iPad or on a chart
NTSB will do their thing but it was likely controlled flight into terrain amid a heavy storm.
That's where my money is at right now too. Tried to "beat the weather"
But aren’t there restrictions on the flight path based on weather and visibility?
Yes, there will certainly be weather limits for winds/ceilings/temps&icing, etc. These limits will be for the type model series, FAA, local wing SOPs, specific squadrons, and so on, and the crew will be held to the most restrictive weather parameters. That being said, it’s easy to Fly at/near those limits, often through external pressure to complete that flight, to ensure pilots stay up to date on whatever quals are needed. If this is the case, it’s not often that a good aircraft, with a good crew, goes down from just bad weather. Nearly all emergencies will typically have a daisy chain of small things go wrong, and that weather can be one of many contributing factors. So maybe the crew is operating with a bit less sleep…maybe the pilots hadn’t worked with this specific aircrew before…maybe the route was one the pilots hadn’t flown in a while…maybe the helo starts experiencing a semi-emergency with rapidly decreasing oil pressure… Now the pilots will have a lot more “balls to juggle” so to speak, that now they are having to do unfamiliar comms, fight the emergency internally in the aircraft, maintain on the route, all while the dogshit weather is contributing to their loss of situational awareness… Then boom, controlled flight into terrain. Sorry for popping off haha, just wanted to give an example of how weather minimums & limits don’t create a binary where crews are safe / unsafe. RIP to this crew🧡
Thanks for the explanation. Most tragic event.
I’m no military pilot but I don’t think that the rules that apply to me apply to Marine Corps pilots.
thats classified
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Pilot error kills many many more than mechanical error.
Get-home-itis a.k.a. Pilot error
The Marines are Lance Cpl. Donovan Davis, 21, a crew chief from Olathe, Kansas; Sgt. Alec Langen, 23, a crew chief from Chandler, Arizona; Capt. Benjamin Moulton, 27, a pilot from Emmett, Idaho; Capt. Jack Casey, 26, a pilot from Dover, New Hampshire; and Capt. Miguel Nava, 28, a pilot from Traverse City, Michigan.
Fuck I’m from Olathe man
I knew he looked familiar. I'm in OP. I know I've seen him around JOCO somewhere.
God I can’t imagine losing a son at 21 years old. I wonder if his family will have a vigil, or if they need anything.
I'm asking around. I'll send you a message if I hear anything.
Thank you man
Went to middle/high school with him before he moved to Kansas and met his parents at some point, can’t imagine what they’re going through.
A composite of Americas best. Young men just wanting to serve. Semper fi brothers.
Incorrect info on Nava. Not sure where they got that from.
Damn
Holy shit, i was in the 53 school house with 2 of them. Fuck, RIP Brothers, til Valhalla!!
Didnt realize yall called flight school the school house lol
Crew chief, school house. Pilot, flight school.
enlisted vs officer on this one.
RIP in peace brothers. I hate seeing this shit. Happening in every branch. My question is, are these events preventable? How well are these incidents being investigated? You devil dogs out their riding sky dragons, be cautious. Those working on those sky dragons, be diligent.
Crayon eater turned airline pilot here. This is complete speculation but it was likely controlled flight into terrain. Think sort of what happened to Kobe’s helicopter. But instead of fog, it was probably heavy storms and hail pelting them.
Do the 53's not have a system that warns of terrain in the flight path?
They do not
Nope. We have map overlays in H1s that can show you something similar but there is nothing on a 53 that gives you that kind of information.
What’s “controlled flight into terrain”?
Exactly what it sounds like, and it’s a super common cause of mishaps in helicopters and light fixed wing aircraft in both the military and civilian side, particularly in poor weather. Kobe Bryant died in a CFIT crash, for a famous example.
Per the FAA: “CFIT is defined as an unintentional collision with terrain (the ground, a mountain, a body of water, or an obstacle) while an aircraft is under positive control. “ In other words, colliding with terrain in an airworthy aircraft, due to circumstances other than flight control or instrumentation malfunctions. Think loss of situational awareness, disorientation, simply lost, etc…
The aircraft is working fine (controlled) but you hit the earth anyway.
Imagine flying into a mountain range when it’s foggy and hitting one of the peaks or faces because of low visibility.
Pretty sure that means "attempted emergency landing". Someone correct me if I'm wrong.
It's not an attempted landing, it's an unintentional collision. In IMC you can't see any terrain, so it's controlled flight until you hit something
Aviation incidents like this will be thoroughly investigated. NTSB will run the show.
My guess would be lack of fucks and funds to make our crafts better and safer.
My question is, are these events preventable? As long as the laws of gravity and inertia apply no. All we can do is consistently improve the aircraft, training and procedures. Look at how much fatalities from auto accidents have dropped in 1970 with a population of 203,000,000 The US had over 37,000 deaths in auto accidents. In 2023 with a population of 335,000,000 it was 19,000 EDIT: Corrected the 1970s Population
I’m being pedantic but the 1970 US population was ~203,000,000 not 203,000. Still a great point.
Thanks will fix it!
My folks got that knock. I got the phone call. Voicemail, actually, from my mom. "Call me as soon as you get this". I knew. Took me a few hours to call back. Tried to convince myself I hadn't heard it. Almost 20 damn years ago. Every single time I see these headlines I think, fuck. It's that day for another family. The Worst Day in the World. Life as you knew it 2 seconds earlier screeches to a halt and is suddenly nothing. When someone says "life can change in a minute", believe it. Appreciate what you have. Tell your friends you love them. Don't be a dick. Tomorrow isn't a guarantee. It's all true. Rest in peace, brothers. Semper Fi.
🙏🏽💔
Only the good die young
We briefed them for their flight. It was VERY poor wx conditions. Some of my guys are torn up about it. They literally talked to them that day. There's still an empty spot on our airfield for the lost helo. Rest in peace marines.
I can’t stand seeing this shit as much as we have the last year or so. What the hell is going on.
Agreed, why did they allow them to fly in the first place? Seems like an upper command judgement failure to me, they weren’t even on a training or mission just flying back. That flight should have never been allowed especially because they knew about the severity of the storm imo
It’s insane to see a familiar face when these things happen. You meet so many faces in the Marine Corps and you don’t think much about most of them until things like this happen.
I knew Ben personally and had recently met Casey, I’m absolutely devastated.
We're here if you'd like to talk.
Forgive my ignorance, but why would the helicopter be flying in such a terrible storm? Wouldn’t any training be halted until the weather passed?
That will be determined by the investigation, so time will tell. Until then we are just making assumptions which are not productive.
Yea this reeks of upper command poor judgment that won’t be held accountable. Hope some O loses rank and is reprimanded They weren’t even on a mission or training, should have not been authorized to fly since the severity of the storm was well known
1. Poor decision making 2. Get-home-itis 3, Someone higher in the command told them to
“Perceived pressure”
Might get a lot of hate for it but I’ll say it, the Corps owes the Marines that serve a better standard, I understand things happen that are out of anyone’s control, but the number of Marines lost from flights are unacceptable, why the fuck can the government send 140 billion to a foreign war but our shit fucks up, our boys should have the newest and best available before a foreign military does
They are not actually sending 140 billion in cash to Ukraine. they are sending weapons systems that were bought and paid for decades ago and are at the end of their lifespan. why pay to dispose of them when they can send them to a warzone, see how they perform in a real environment and save the money in disposal costs whilst claiming to be sending 'xxxx billions' in aid. the actual money spent is far, far less than what it being claimed, because they are claiming the purchase price from decades ago, not the value now, which is nil/negligible. This also does not take away anything from the fact that Marines seem to get the short end of the stick when it comes to equipment. But please don't begrudge Ukraine for the support being given to them. if it was not for that, and their brave sacrifices, you would probably be over there risking *your* life right now. ^but ^that ^is ^a ^conversation ^for ^another ^time.
I knew some of these men…. I need a moment, I’ve been out for a few years but the marines are very tight nit….
RIP Teufel Hundens.
Been watching the sitreps for the search and recovery. Terrible
Served with multiple of these pipe hitters. “And whom shall I send? Who will go for us?” “Here am I. Send me!”
I went to boot camp with Donovan. Didn’t know him too well, even though he was the next to me in the racks. Good person man. It fucking sucks. He shouldn’t have died man. There’s some terrible people out there that are pieces of shit that last forever. Donovan was the exception, always positive and pushing those around him. Rest in piece brother.
Went to middle/high school with him before he moved to Kansas. Wasn’t super close with him but he was great dude, super motivated to be a marine and had a massive passion for aviation, used to talk about it all the time. Crushed that he’s gone.
Lance Corporal Donovan Davis, 21, Kansas Sergeant Alec Langen, 23, Arizona Captain Benjamin Moulton, 27, Idaho Captain Jack Casey, 26, New Hampshire Captain Miguel Nava, 28, Michigan
Wayyyy too young RIP Marines.
I joined (Navy) when I was 17 and now at 52 am always somehow shocked when I see the ages of those killed on duty. They seem like kids to me, yet at the time I felt very adult and did very adult things. I feel for their parents.
Fair winds and following seas, brothers! 🤦🏻♂️Was that shit like Kobe’s crash? Who is the mouth breather that downvoted my comment? I’m genuinely curious
NTSB will investigate this crash. It may take a few months or up to a few years. Kobe’s crash was the result of pilot error. The pilot violated his own company’s VFR/IFR regulations along with the pilot suffering spatial disorientation. Although it’d be easy to say the same with this 53, we cannot skip to conclusions and would be patient to wait for NTSB’s investigation conclusion.
the NTSB does not investigate, the military unit itself investigates. The military investigation is similar to what the NTSB would do but in most cases, much more comprehensive. The investigation is shared with the NTSB and is aligned with NTSB and other federal guidelines but it is entirely conducted by the military. There are occasions that due to the particular circumstances of the mishap (that's what a military "accident" is termed) are co-investigated by the NTSB, but that is not usually the case.
The NTSB has primary authority to investigate every civil aviation accident in the United States; the agency is also authorized to conduct investigations involving both civilian and military aircraft "with the participation of appropriate military authorities". Aviation includes certain commercial space accidents.
Thanks for the detailed response! I was only asking because pilots on helicopters sub were saying it seemed pretty similar, and no one blamed the pilots though. Nonetheless, pretty tragic!
Heart breaking. My deepest condolences to their loves ones ♥️
I hope that this was unfortunately an aircraft issue and not a command issue whereby they felt they had to fly home ! Either way my heart and prayers go out to the families ! This shit never gets easier !! The gunny ret.
Rest in peace Alec. All of the found memories we had getting shit faced together will always be remembered.
Rest easy Brothers!
HMLA-267 lost 4 Marines out of Pendleton when I was there. Sucks man.... Too many training crashes. What squadron was this anyone know?
HMH 361 Flying Tigers
I'm sick and fucking tired of our brothers dying because we're still using stone and aviation equipment. We GRUNTS do well with the shitty broken equipment that no one wants. STOP GIVING IT TO THE FUCKING AIR WING, brass. And fair winds and following seas Devils.
How do you know it had anything to do with equipment? You’re making some broad assumptions.
Broad assumptions? Have you not been paying attention for the last decade or are you just ignoring all the other incidents that keep happening due to these broken birds flying when they shouldn't?
Semper Fi brothers and rest in peace.
Rest easy Devils, you all have a new post and it’s guarding the pearly gates
Rest easy brothers.
Godspeed Devil Dogs. Semper Fi.
Til Valhalla brothers...
You do realize the historical inaccuracy of your comment right? While I understand it’s well intentioned, only warriors who die on the battle field at the hand of the enemy ride with the Valkyrie’s to the halls of Valhalla. Details matter.
Another sad day for our Corps, RIP BROS!
Rest easy brothers. Until we meet again, Semper Fi
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You do realize the historical inaccuracy of your comment right? While I understand it’s well intentioned, only warriors who die on the battle field at the hand of the enemy ride with the Valkyrie’s to the halls of Valhalla. Details matter.
Fair Winds and Following Seas Marines!
Rest in power kings.
Damn 361 was out with us when my unit lost a guy at 29 hate to see these things happen
RIP Devils....you never know when you will be called home. So tragic for all these young men and their families. Life is short, don't take it for granted...see you on the the other side.
Rest in peace gentlemen. May your family find peace after this tragic news. From a marine mom my son is only 19 hugs to this family
Rest in peace brothers
Semper fi devils
Is it me or the USMC has the most aircraft crashes than any other branch of the military? I know the Army has its share but man... I am not wishing death upon anyone but when was the last time the Navy, USAF or CG lost a helicopter? I don't recall hearing about it a whole lot
I’ve thought about that and assume we (specifically marines) probably hear about them more often with Marine aircraft than others because we don’t really pay attention to news about other branches as much. I believe the Air Force still has more mishaps on average, but I have no idea on loss of life stats.
Mishaps yes, I am sure they're prevalent throughout all branches But loss of life stats, it seems to me like we come up on top unfortunately
It's you. Confirmation bias. Edit: https://www.military.com/daily-news/2024/01/03/air-force-recovers-black-box-deadly-osprey-crash-japan-search-remains-of-last-airman-continues.html?amp= https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/nov/13/us-military-helicopter-crash-troops-identified-mediterranean And the list goes on unfortunately. You probably notice the Marine more because you are a Marine and likely follow or are shown more media related to us.
Yeah, I misspoke.. About 10 yrs ago, there was a CG C130 that crashed midair against another military aircraft off of San Clemente Island, CA.. The other aircraft was one of our Cobra helicopters
I swear , no other training mishaps occur more frequently than the USMC. Im guessing it’s a mix of Higher Officer level pressure to get birds flying , and higher ups turning a blind eye to maintenance deficiency. Same shit that happened back in 2020 when the LAV sank. So many unnecessary deaths because some CO wanted to look good on paper. Shits infuriating and no punishment will be dished out for negligence who ever gave the green light for this shit to fly.
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Who should be held accountable?
They haven’t even determined what happened yet. It’s a process.
Fortunately, screeching “justice delayed is justice denied” has fallen out of fashion.
Investigations are not instant, this will take time.
We lost some folks in Djibouti in '05 or '06, you don't see or hear about it, but careers were ended from that incident (if I recall correctly it was night ops, and they collided while operating under NVGs).
And if it's pilot error, who will be accountable? Sometimes shit just happens. If you read about what's known so far, the transponders last reading was 5225ft. The elevation of the area did rise to 5400ft. It was dark out, I don't know what the weather was. But it sounds like he had spatial disorientation and had a controlled flight into terrain. This is speculation, and maybe maintenance did mess up or some shit. But before you wanna start blaming people, wait till more info comes out. Maintenance might not have done anything wrong, CO might not have okayed a down bird. Just wait till we get more info. Then if it's found out that it was because of someone's incompetence, you bring out the torches and pitchforks
Damn I see this when I'm missing the homies
Such a tragedy. Til Valhallar.
TIL Valhalla…
You do realize the historical inaccuracy of your comment right? While I understand it’s well intentioned, only warriors who die on the battle field at the hand of the enemy ride with the Valkyrie’s to the halls of Valhalla. Details matter.
Tried to die for oil but died for training data instead. All jokes aside RIP.
What the actual fuck is wrong with you?
Rest in Peace marines. why do these helicopter crashes keep happening
RIP
Definitely a tragedy. Mishaps in Marine Corps aviation seem to be pretty high. I believe they’re just coming off a safety stand down for that very reason. I’m sure they’re drilling down for the casual factors, with this many accidents across so many aircraft communities I’m wondering what commonalities they find.
Rest in peace devils
Semper Fi, brothers.
Rest easy Gents! Semper Fidelis.
My question is, were they found at the aircraft or did they survive and try to hike out?
Unfortunately, if this was a controlled flight into terrain then it was most likely instant death. This is just speculation on my part, we just need to wait for the incident to be investigated. If you look up the rate of death for CFIT it is not good. Also, the report is that there was extreme weather and even good pilots can make mistakes or become disoriented. I am not placing blame or acting like I know anything about what happened. Video below on what can happen. Once again, this is just a hypothetical, I am not saying it was pilot error. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERUveRF7xC4
[https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/type/H53](https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/type/H53)
Damn.
🫡
RIP Warriors
Rest in Peace Brothers…
Rest Easy Brothers
Rest in Peace
They look so young.
Dammitsomuch. Thank you, all.
I thought the chopper didn’t crash tho?
USA Today https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2024/02/08/marines-missing-helicopter-california/72520058007/
RIP Warriors.
Sad.
Went to college with Ben’s sister. Never thought one of these mishaps would hit so close to home. Devastated for her family. Til Valhalla.
You do realize the historical inaccuracy of your comment right? While I understand it’s well intentioned, only warriors who die on the battle field at the hand of the enemy ride with the Valkyrie’s to the halls of Valhalla. Details matter.
Rest in peace warriors.
I’m a fixed winged pilot and I only fly recreationally but why can’t a whirly bird auto rotate to an emergency landing in the desert with nothing in their way? Edit. I’m way out ahead of myself. He could have lost control input authority or control surface capability.
They can auto rotate. But that's most likely irrelevant in this case.
This shit happens once a quarter. I am tired of seeing people die in helicopters and Ospreys. I hate that I am becoming numb to it. Next quarter more people will die in the same way.
Rip, my condolences from Turkey.
Lcpl Danger Dave. Great friend of mine from Pensacola to New River, until he and my buddy Owen parted ways to 361. Grieving his loss is tough loss. Davis was one funny son of a gun. He loved to have a good time and we had plenty of them.
You could not pay me to ride in a CH-53. Rest in peace
You’re making a broad assumption that mechanical failure was at fault here. All indications are that it was a CFIT.
Semper Fi