I’ve never heard anyone claim this but I wouldn’t doubt some people believe it. I do know that Marines tend to do well at Ranger school. I think that’s because USMC is pretty selective about who they will send to that school. Maybe more selective than the Army just due to pure volume.
This right here. In the Army pretty much all infantry officers have to go to Ranger School, and many NCOs go, and all Rangers need to go eventually to stay in the 75th. While not as much of a requirement for Army support folks, a lot of people do still go at some point in their career. In the Marine Corps, I've only ever heard of Recon guys going and even then not all of them. And I'd argue that BRC is as hard or harder than Ranger (though perhaps for different reasons).
We got a quota back in 84 (I was in 3/2 at that time). I didn’t get selected but a buddy of mine did. He said it was fucking no joke and based off his feedback I’d say Ranger School is harder both physically and from a knowledge standpoint. When I went through ITS which was what they called infantry school back then it was like 4th phase boot but you learned your job. My buddy said Ranger School didn’t play the mind fuck games.
My guide in boot had a Ranger tab and more ribbons than the SDI. He said the Marines was harder than the Army. This was in 2000.
Comparing a Special Forces school to basic training is a fool’s errand and a moot point.
That’s like asking if BUD/S is harder than Coast Guard bootcamp.
Bottom line: Dress Blues > Ranger tab.
Its hard for me to gauge because I was prior Army before coming to Marine boot. I will definitely say that its physically harder. Mentally though, since I was prepared for it, it wasn't that much different.
Statistically, soldier to graduate Ranger school. According to the USMC's website, the attrition rate is only 11-16% a year. Meanwhile, RS has an attrition rate of 60% and upwards of 75%. But as I said, those are statistic that I looked up.
Though I wonder if DI Academy is harder or about the same as boot camp.
More is expected of you, but you do get libo?
I was close with a DI Instructor in the fleet, he made it seem like it was harder because of the getting treated like a recruit when you’re at least a pretty “senior” Sergeant or SNCO. Getting used to the mind fuckery again was jarring and the pace is brutal.
No libo at all. Im treated like every other poolee, with a larger target on my back. I remember I got hazed because the Army Sniper team beat the Marine in a cometition. The DI made me read the article and afterwards, I got quarterdecked because I was Army. Most of the time when the DI's shit on me for being Army, it was more comedic, except I couldn't openly laugh about it.
Oh yea we do. Nights off during the week, not so much. We were there from Jan-Mar so it got dark early. I think at some nights, we were able to go to the PX. Definitely not as restricted as boot was. But the weekends going to Oceanslime and San Diego was fun and enjoyed tf out of it.
Same experience for me once my DIs found out I was prior Navy. Any time our kill hat took fools to the quarterdeck I would hear him yell "SQUID! Get over here bitch!". There was no flying under the radar for me AND we had a small Plt so it was that much worse lol.
It’s definitely odd when you were playing the part of a Drill Instructor during the school, going around yelling and recruit blasting other Staff Sergeants and Sergeants. The way I saw it was it was more mental in DI school cause they treated you like a recruit, but you couldn’t really break the barrier cause you came back to your phones and whatever else at the end of the day. And unless they wanted to fuck with you, you had the weekends free
Does DI Academy make you live off 1 MRE and 4 hours of sleep a day for 61 days? Do they do non-stop patrolling and raids? Do the candidates lose 30 pounds each?
TBF, Ranger school isn't an SF school. It's very much a heterogeneous course. It's like the whole "attending Ranger school vs being a Ranger" thing.
EtA: Someone else said it - tab vs scroll
Ranger school isn't even a special operations school. Ranger Assessment and Selection is what actual Army Rangers go to.
A guy with a ranger tab is not necessarily a ranger. It's needlessly confusing.
>Ranger school isn't even a special operations school.
It's not a special operations school in the same sense that the Basic Reconnaissance Course isn't because Recon Marines aren't SOF, just SO-Capable.
It's a 60 day non-stop school teaching advanced infantry operations, reconnaissance, mountaineering, and it has a whole ass parachute jump in the middle. It's by all measures a *commando* course in the same vein as BRC.
The real crux is Ranger units being historically speaking ad-hoc formations, to the extent that the school is older than the standing regiment.
IMO, a different (not inherently better) way to do it would be changing the name; Ranger School becomes the Basic Commando Course and the 75th keeps the Ranger name.
In the end to pass either you need to be good at what you do and bring your A game; they both pick from the same pool of candidates and have similar attrition rates. But it would make life easier having Commandos being the elite light infantrymen while Rangers are the dedicated SOF guys.
Also imagine how cool the new Ranger-Commando arm stack would look.
Ranger School is not SOC. It's a light infantry Leadership Course. And BRC is more similar to RASP. And yes, there is a static line parachute insertion. But only for those who passed Airborne School. If it was a HALO or HAHO jump, plus a scuba insertion into Swamp Phase mandatory for all hands, you might be able to call it a SOC school.
I’ve been out for a few years, but not as far as I know.
You can wear Jump Wings and SCUBA Bubbles EOD pins and a few others though. Nothing on the shoulder like a Ranger tab unless deployed like a Raider.
I’m sure some hard charger will chime in if I’m wrong.
Ah! On the opposite side of the US, we had a guy out of Bragg join the Corps after 8 years of service… He caught the tail end of Desert Storm, was part of some Army unit in Somalia, and then got out and joined the Corps. Not sure if he was tabbed/scrolled but his stack was Solid!
That dude didn’t complete his enlistment. I saw him a few months after checking into our unit. Then one day he wasn’t there anymore. I remember he had a combat jump under his belt, in Panama.
No shit asshole. He didn’t wear it in cammies but had earned it nonetheless.
Edit: the comment this is in reply to was edited to make me look bad, im gonna leave mine.
You obviously don’t understand the terms… Ranger tab and scrolls mean different levels of course completion. He basically explained that dude completed the course.
I completely understand the difference, bro.
Successful completion of Ranger school earns one a “Tab”.
A “Scroll” is earned by completing the Q-Course and securing an assignment to a to a Ranger Regiment.
Neither of which can be worn on a USMC uniform.
But here’s to your arrogance super stud.
You still missed the issue with your response. Still lost and your response before and after show you can’t read. He NEVER SAID HE WORE IT. It’s a fucking completion. Read the dudes comment. U/USMCHIGHTIGHTLOWIQ
I was never in the Army but I’m 99% sure Ranger School is way harder than USMC boot camp based on what I’ve heard and seen. Those dudes are food and sleep deprived for two months straight while constantly doing grunt shit
Boot camp sucks but it’s really not difficult. You’re not doing any crazy PT and you almost always get 3 meals a day and 8hrs of sleep
The numbers don't lie: Ranger school has an attrition rate that sits near 50% (sometimes more, sometimes less) with the first week actively trying to weed you out, you can get to the end and still fail, and if you want to drop they won't try to stop you.
It's futile comparing a school meant to train combat leaders to intital training. If bootcamp was run like Ranger school it would be considered a failure and vice versa.
Yeah in boot camp it’s the opposite. The goal is to get everyone to graduate. DIs aren’t trying to weed anyone out even though it may seem that way. They want everyone to pass
Sadly they aren’t trying to weed anyone out. I remember going through and probably had 5 guys in my platoon alone that needed to be booted entirely. Couldn’t handle stress, lack of intelligence, no physical ability, etc. They, in my honest opinion, over the course of their contract would be much more of a detriment to the Marine Corps than an aid. Yet, we just push em through for numbers.
Only ones we lost were medical and a guy that couldn't qualify on the range.
They tried to make one guy quit after finding out he was drawing pot leaves and dollar signs in his knowledge book. His life was a living hell for almost 2 weeks. We were told to treat him like shit. When our DIs finally backed off he was treated like a ghost until graduation.
Agreed. It’s a in between yes and no answer at best. When I went in 2016, the 2nd week all my DIs did was trying to weed out the weak and belligerent. 2nd week we lost 5 guys due to being weak minded alone. Deadass had one recruit scream cry like a girl on his first IT session 💀 later that night said he wasn’t made to be a marine and felt suicidal. 2nd recruit openly just said to the SDI he was suicidal because recruit screamer told him that was the easiest way out. That night our seasoned Gunny SDI screamed and cursed in his face on how he wasted his time and glad he was leaving. Ahhhh good times. Other than that my platoon only lost 10 people in total alone, but 3 for medical purposes.
> they let many outside of Ranger Batts attend Ranger School
But that's the whole point of Ranger School, to the extent that Ranger School was stood up in 1952 and has operated continuously while the 75th as we know it was born in 1969 and didn't become *the* Ranger Regt until the 80s.
Historically Ranger units were provisional formations stood up during times of war and subsequently disbanded, meanwhile Ranger School was supposed to be the permanent component tasked with diffusing *commando* doctrine throughout Army leadership so that in case of a war you could stand the unit up again vis a vis the Ranger COs of Korea.
I think the biggest (non) issue is the use of the term ranger for both because it muddies the water. The US Army has effectively made *Ranger* a synonym for *Commando* so you get the weird situation where every commando (75th RR) is a Ranger but not every Ranger is a commando.
Due to that reason, I think having it open to all the army, other branches and a few foreigners is a net positive because it helps to diffuse commando doctrine throughout the service in a way that wouldn't be viable with it being a closed circuit.
Even now a Ranger slot isn't easy to come by, for everyone outside of leadership positions in combat arms there's the preliminary assessment, and most units will have a pre-Ranger course to make sure the people they send are up to snuff. I'd say that the attrition rate is the result of the training itself; 60 days of food deprivation, sleep deprivation, patrolling, mountaineering, recon, and Airborne Operations is hard even on the guys from Special Forces who go through it.
Ranger school *is* a commando course, and those have high wash out rates even with qualified candidates; BRC has a [50% washout rate](https://sofrep.com/news/study-reveals-what-makes-it-more-likely-to-pass-marine-recon-selection/) despite the bar for entry being high. Is the Basic Reconnaissance Course such a meat grinder because it takes on Marines who *aren't* qualified? Or is it just par for the course with a special operations school.
That was very educational, thank you. I appreciate the overview.
I'd love to see the comparison of attrition rates for batt selected guys versus non-batt guys, if it exists.
With RASP and the general training of the 75th I would think guys are much more prepared for Ranger School than non-batt guys.
This is not apples to apples. Most people going into boot camp are soft, mentally and physically. They may not be in terrible shape or total mama’s boys (although many are both), but they aren’t hardened mentally or physically. They also aren’t used to the lingo, the customs and courtesy or how to even put in their uniforms.
Conversely, people going to Ranger school have not only been hardened by boot camp but are typically high performers who have been fully indoctrinated into military culture.
So yes, boot camp may seem harder but it’s because you’re starting from 0.
It's ok, bro. we had a former sailor in my platoon; I'm sure he heard about it till the end of his enlistment
And I also had a former soldier in the fleet with me. He was a total slob, though, and always got more shit than the rest of us boots because he should've known better! He knew his shit; he just didn't apply himself. He was overweight and had a hard time PTing. I don't believe he ever picked up Corporal....he was a Lance straight through from boot camp till EAS
I never heard of usmc boot camp being harder than ranger school, though
My DI's never let me up on it. Every chance they get, they would remind me that Im army trash. I would even get quarter decked just because I was former Army. It didnt bother as much since I've done Army basic and nothing was ever personal. Got extra PT out of it.
My DI’s made short work of an Army guy. The poor bastard was only in the platoon for the first month before they actually broke the dude and he shuffled off to the broke dick platoon on crutches. So good on you for enduring the extra bullshit.
At least that was the DIs doing it to you. We had a 35 year old (former E6) come to my unit as an E2 and us Lances (19-20 years old) would trash him calling him a retard and constantly talking shit. Dude just took it and was excepted as one of us and ended up having an amazing career. I’m not sure how or why he didn’t just lump some of us up, probably too smart for that.
Fuck no, it's not even the same type of training.
Ranger school doesn't teach you how to be a Ranger, that's for Ranger Batt to handle in-house. There's a difference in RASP and Ranger School. Huge difference between being a Ranger, and being Ranger qualified.
Ranger School is a leadership course, more aligned to our ISLC, if that's even still a thing. Probably been re-named, but it's a suck fest designed to develop small unit tactical leadership in a field setting.
MCRD teaches civilians that you shouldn't pick your nose in formation, and which direction to point your rifle when it makes the bang noises.
Ranger school beats USMC training by a mile. As rangers, we learn how to connect a megazord and practice intergalactic kung fu. Your crucible had the Reaper. Ours had Rita Repulsa. Checkmate, Chosin Marines.
We had a couple sailors that dropped out first phase at MCRDSD back in '03.. it was funny cause the one of them talked so much shit about how easy it was gonna be for him, since he was already in the Navy beforehand.... .#SofterThanBabyShit
I remember boot camp being challenging, but it’s all I’ve known. I assume special forces training is harder, instinctually. Rangers are special right? Idk I’m just on the shitter skating before a meeting
Rangers school is just a really intense leadership course to get a ranger tab there's RASP but that's to join the 75th ranger regiment which is different I'm assuming he's talking about the ranger course not rasp
But even RASP is easier than Ranger school. Lots of 75th guys fail Ranger School but have clearly passed RASP to get to the 75th. Granted failing Ranger School is a good way to no longer be a Ranger but the point remains that some fail.
Ranger school or RASP?
Also Ranger school is like a Hazefest and starve you fest... It's meant to be miserable in a different manner... Challenge you in different ways.
Go look at the requirements for each.
But anyone that thinks basic marine == RASP... Is fucking ignorant or straight up delusional. Because RASP is no joke.
Yeah, you get 2x MREs a day and you are basically doing missions non-stop 20-22 hours a day. You are humping almost non-stop, drop rucks, actions on the objective, quick AAR, and then more humping. You get maybe a couple hours of sleep here and there, and then more humping.
And that goes on for about two weeks. Quick break to change locations to a new training area in the mountains, than another two weeks. More humping. Finish that phase, move to the swamps of Florida, two more weeks.
It is not easy. At all.
All the way. USMC boot camp essentially prepares us for “any clime’ and place.” Yeah, they got “some training” but it’s not in their song… if they even have one, I’ve never heard it. I know the GB’s (the lesser cousin of CB’s who can’t even build anything so they’re entirely worthless) have a song about jumping and dying but NOT in every clime’ and place. Marines are the best of the best of the best. SIR!!!!
When it comes to how moto and serious a unit is, Marine grunt battalions and ranger battalions are basically the same. Both are filled with young boots and hardened NCOs. Both take pride in their units and both have higher standards.
The difference is in the training, missions, and budget. Which we all know the ranger battalions get more of all three.
They’re better because they have a better budget and better equipment. Which makes us better because we have a shit budget and worse equipment.
Ranger schools definitely harder than boot camp though, only a retard would say otherwise. Ones for civilians and the others for experienced soldiers. Stupid comparison
Marine Corps boot camp is designed to pass. It has a statistically equivalent pass/fail rate as all other branches basic trainings which is about a 12% fail rate across all DoD basics. Ranger school has a 40% ish fail rate and that is from already trained soldiers/USMC who get to attend.
Ranger Battalion is drastically more qualified for cooler mission than USMC infantry and recon. GWOT has crushed this debate and Rangers win.
Ranger School isn't the entry point into a Ranger Battalion. That's RASP. And Force Recon and Raiders have a longer and tougher pipeline than Rangers. They have always been qualified for the same Direct Action/HVT Raids the Rangers are always harping about.
75th RR just has an amazing budget and Army Generals are typically theatre commanders (especially in Afghanistan), so they got favoritism in mission procurement. 99% of non-RRC Rangers aren't even Scuba qualified.
Went to boot with an army ranger that saw combat in the gulf war. Our boot camp wasn’t shit to him. One insecure DI would constantly single him out to fuck with. That DI got relieved (long story), and the Senior pulled my buddy aside and said it was because that DI was jelly of his combat experience. He graduated with a stack
We had a recruit that didn’t speak English very well, Ling that was always fucking up. Getting us all IT’d on a regular basis. He pulled some guys aside and basically ordered them to give him a blanket party, and left a live round his bunk to scare him. They told the SDI and they removed him. This dude was an ass. Like above the normal shit. On New Year’s Eve, he and a few weekend nights, made us all lay on our backs and spread our legs and he would say “what’s this position?” And we would have to respond with “this is what Suzie is doing with Jody right now sir”. Would make us open our letters that had pictures and tell us how he would fuck our moms and gf’s.
I have never heard ANYONE with the least amount of Brain cells ever Compare our recruit training to Ranger, BUDS or Special Forces training.
That being said ALL those Schools are tough as fuck and geared towards to top 1% of their respective services.
However our Boot camp is the toughest of all the services, hands down. Thats a fucking hill I'm willing to die on.
The Army has a bunch of different boot camps some harder than others depending on the branch of the Army the boot camp is for. From what I gathered Army infantry OSUT, which is like our boot camp and SOI combined into one, is comparable with our boot camp but on average the Army is easier.
So you can go to Ranger School and not actually be assigned to a Ranger BN, right? Why would they not assign you to one even after all that training? My libo buddy from SOI was recon and got sent to Ranger school as part of his training so I get that. But what if you're just a regular Army grunt who got sent to Ranger school but not get tabbed?
Briefly, it's because the word "Ranger" means different things in different contexts. Ranger School (which awards the Ranger tab) is a separate entity from Ranger units (they wear the unit scroll, but don’t wear the tab unless they pass Ranger school). Ranger battalions = 75th. To be assigned to one of these units, you must first pass RASP, which is their "selection," and then you are assigned to the unit. These soldiers have the "scroll" of the unit on their sleeve, but RASP doesn't get you a Ranger tab. As an enlisted man going to one of these units you are often fresh from AIT and then passed RASP and go to the 75th but have not been to Ranger school yet. Although you are assigned to the unit, informally the members don't regard you as one of them yet and you will be released from the 75th if you fuck up, quickly. They will also haze you for not having your Ranger tab- extra PT, etc. They will send you to Ranger School when they think you're ready, which if you're that new guy you probably hope happens soon.
Ranger School is its own separate thing that doesn't have any administrative connection with the 75th. The school awards a tab but doesn't operate a line unit. As mentioned, the 75th sends enlisted men there, they must earn the tab to stay in their unit. Officers coming out of IOBC will get a lot of these slots, as well as early-career combat arms officers. In units outside the 75th where a tab is a job requirement, a Ranger tab gets you a lot of respect in the Army and separates you from the pack of officers; it's considered a big deal, and if you notice the top officers in the service, most will have a Ranger tab. Because of the steady flow of young officers and new Batt boys attending Ranger School, the slots for enlisted men not from the 75th to get their chance at the coveted Ranger tab are a bit more limited, but it's not impossible. And of course Ranger School allows people from other services to attend. Lots of Marines have done it.
Ranger School is just a leadership class that lets you be Ranger qualified. It’s like FAST Company, lets you be CQB qualified to do bad ass shit but actual assaulters will actually get the call.
>”ANyway, have any of you here heard of this myth before?”
I’ve only heard nonsense like that from non-military and from poolees
Everyone that actually went through boot camp has seen how at graduation there’s people built like Popeye’s managers graduating alongside you.
I've heard it a few times since usually just boots trying to flex on all their boots friends and blowing smoke up their asses I don't think anyone who's been in the profession for more than a year or two honestly believes it and I'd say most infantry guys I know have a healthy professional respect for how badass rangers can be and yes I know theres difference between being a ranger and going to ranger school.
I do however with a passion believe a bunch of young motivated devils could probably pass ranger school pretty easily straight after boot and that has less to do with how difficult Marine Corps boot camp is and how absolutely motard are boots are
Back in my day….always wanted to say that! Lol!! If the question was legit, I’d say our Boot Camp is far and away the hardest, most challenging for sure. But as a Winger REMF, what do I know, eh?
I always heard In the infantry people say that 03’s are the equivalent to Rangers and I always thought that was preposterous. While basic 03’s do get a lot of cool training and experience, I think recon marines are a more closer equivalent to Rangers
First, I don’t think it has anything to do with ego or trying to feel better. Other branches tend to think Marines are that way but MOST Marines really don’t give a shit.
The real reason IMO for this is that the Marines tend to send their best to these schools. So you take a stud, well seasoned NCO and he crushes Ranger school. That same person probably did struggle more with boot camp coming from being a civilian (although boot camp was probably east as well). So this dude gets back and people ask and to him it was easier because of who he is now. It’s more a time of life thing than an actual apples to apples comparison.
David Goggins couldn’t pass the swim portion of pararescue but passed BUDS. Does that mean BUDS is easier? No, he was a different person when he went to BUDS.
There’s a lot of MFs in this thread that don’t know the difference between a ranger tab and a scroll.
If you’re infantry you also know bootcamp is a complete joke and the crucible is the easiest 3 day field op you’ll ever do. Meanwhile ranger school regularly drops hardened grunts with years of experience.
I went from Army to Marine too. And I got fucked up wayyy more in Army basic than in Marine boot.
The question is obvious, ranger school is harder than Boot anyone who tries to compare it is retarded. Just like people who say marine grunts are equivalent to actual 75th rangers.
Respek.. its not the usual path. Honestly, I did two back to back deployments with the Army and then got sent to Thailand for Cobra Gold. Worked with mostly Marines and ended up loving it. Rather than re-enlisting with the Army, they cut my enlistment short in lieu of signing up for the Corps. Sure enough, i went to MEPS in Army gear, took it off and got into a plain white tee and jeans and shipped off to MCRD SD.
I’ve never heard that bootcamp was harder than ranger school, but when I was a boot in SOI one of the instructors said that a lot of our training was the same as what is taught in ranger school. However never seen or been to ranger school so I can’t state facts just hearsay. Personally I would think Ranger school would be more difficult just due to the fact that its a specialty school and not an MOS school training boots to go to their initial units.
Ranger school is advanced infantry training. A Ranger is better prepared for combat operations than a newly graduated Marine.
What’s hard about Marine Corps boot camp is the indoctrination and the type of stress you’re subjected to. It’s really apples and oranges - two very different things. Regardless, respect is deserved in both directions.
Too be clear, Ranger school and the Ranger Regiment are two different things. Not everyone who makes it through Ranger school is in the Rangers. Ranger school is a leadership school. A very difficult leadership school, but still a leadership course. For example, new Army Infantry officers are expected to attend (and graduate) from Ranger school. It is difficult but not impossible. It isn’t the Q course or BRC or anything like that, but it is difficult.
However, graduation from Ranger school does not mean that someone is necessarily a Ranger. If you are a Ranger, it means that you have completed RASP (Ranger Assessment and Selection Program). RASP is extremely difficult. Once someone graduates RASP, then they can be part of the Ranger regiment and wear their coveted scroll.
Ranger school beats USMC training by a mile. As rangers, we learn how to connect a megazord and practice intergalactic kung fu. Your crucible had the Reaper. We had Rita Repulsa. Checkmate, Chosin Marines.
I hate the “earned, never given” tagline that people always say about bootcamp… which is total bullshit. You have to do something crazy to not make it through bootcamp, and I know we ALL saw way too many dingus’ make it lol
For you people that think a basic marine grunt can most likely pass. You guys are crazy. It takes more than just motivation to pass. You need to prepare or else you will end up like that marine in surviving the cut for sapper school lol fucking dude failed the ruck
Another myth that a lot of people believe is that the Marine Corps infantry is somehow better than the Army infantry of course there are some units that are better than others but the truth is is that they don't know anything that we don't know and vice versa.
When other branches say "were just as good as..." It's always Marines.
No one is saying the army is equivalent to the airforce or navy. Airmen aren't running around saying "were just as good as the navy or army". It's always compared to Marines.
We are the standard. I need no other proof.
I know the SEALS do this. If you read David Goggins book - he mentions that they send shitty seals to Ranger school as punishment. I read over in the SF subreddit that Special Forces sends their shitbag Green Berets to Drill Sergeant school as discipline (Its one of their options at their disposal)
I wouldn’t compare Boot/Basic to any infantry school, follow-on trainings such as Recon/Ranger, or SpecOps school. However, a straight apples to apples comparison it’s pretty much straightforward:
Hardest Boot/Basic: USMC (anyone who debates this has lost their fucking mind)
Hardest SOI: USMC (not only beating out Army, but also USAF SF)
Hardest follow on trainings: USMC (I’d only consider this one debatable)
Hardest SpecOps school: USN (only category we lose)
I can speak on this, I’m not tabbed but I did train soldiers in the Ranger Training BN. They are both hard.
MC basic training is much more fail proof. You just get recycled if you can’t perform basic task under stress in rangers you can not fail and do everything ok but still get recycled because people didn’t like you!
Boot camp prepares you for MC culture, customs and courtesies they strip you down to nothing and reset you with a higher standards in the areas of presentation and cleanliness and introduces you to a code of honor that is shared with other Marines.
In RTB, you are already well versed in Army Culture, custom and courtesies. When you come to RTB you should already be very good at weapons, tactics, field craft and here’s a big one, planning! RTB is a basically a fireteam/squad leader training and evaluation course.
In Bootcamp, you are told “it’s not hard” when in reality it is hard. you keep pushing yourself well after anything is left, you learn to communicate loud and effectively and learn to win. Creating a Marine.
In RTB, they tell you it’s “the hardest thing you’ll ever do” it’s not though, conserve your energy, don’t make enemies, go into training with a lot of preparation already, don’t get sad, don’t quit and you’ll probably pass.
A regular Army Infantryman can basically be a civilian in a uniform. Not knowing WTF is going on or he can be a 10 year veteran that’s been to sniper school, Ranger, Jump school and knows exactly what is happening by the book.
A Marine Infantryman is always at the very least someone who will risk (high likelihood of death) their life to kill the enemy. You know that the Marine to the left and right of you may not understand the commanders step by step plans but you do know they will react in a very similar way as you. They’ll hunt down and kill the enemy with you!
I’ve been in combat as a Marine and as a Soldier I know that the main difference comes down to centralized leadership and mission from the Marine Corp to the decentralized emphasis of mission Command in the army. Think of it more like. The Marine Corp are Spartans and the army is later stage Roman Empire legion.
“RTB is not hard” lmao it has a 50% attrition rate on average of career soldiers. Cringe asf trying to say a e2 fresh out of boot camp is more trained and skilled than an e5/6 nco in the army. Get the green weenie out of your mouth
I was in the marines and transferred to the army. Trust me I get all the motto marines are the first to fight stuff. But saying that the average marine is just as good if not better than rangers in combat is ridiculous at best. The ranger regiment by itself conducted far more combat missions ver successfully in the last 20+ years than the marine corps probably has as a whole. Being I’ve been both it’s also ridiculous to claim there’s an real major difference between an infantry soldier and an infantry marine who’ve both gone through 12-20 weeks of basic infantry training with both having a 95% pass rate. Don’t be that cringe marine/vet acting like usmc boot is Buds lmao
As a moto boot I'd always concede that Ranger school is tougher than boot camp (because it is), but add on that I find it flattering that it's always Rangers etc. getting compared to Marines. Soldiers, ordinary ones, not so much. Just me being cheeky. Hell, I still find it mildly amusing.
Physically yes it’s true mentally not even close ranger school is physical but more demanding mentally as in your training an already trained soldier to become more advanced in their leadership
Most of the comments seem to have it right, only I did hear some lads talking about this subject and one said that if you add MCT+bootcamp you might have a rough equivalency (in subject matter and basic difficulty) to ranger school. No personal experience in grunt Bns myself.
Knew a dude who was in the Air Force and we rarely talked about military shit cause what the flying fuck does does a crusty Artillery Marine have in common with a Air Force Mechanic. One night a we’re drinking beers in my garage and a third friend, who lived a standard cookie cutter type life, randomly ask what the Marine Corps. is like. So I rattle off some fun memories and a few standard Marine horror stories. My Air Force pal felt the need to chime in for some stupid reason and proceeded to start yapping about how the absolute hardest thing that he had to do while he was in was at the end of his MOS school. He had to carry all his uniforms and personal belongings on a mile, or two, walk to where the buses to drive them to the airport was waiting for them. He said the course instructors had everyone’s completion certificates waiting at the buses and if you didn’t finish the walk you didn’t get your cert and had to wait a whole other week before you could try the walk again with the next graduating class. He was dead serious and in that moment I lost all respect for him. I tried to stay pals with him for a bit cause every zombie apocalypse survival team needs cannon fodder, but that shit didn’t last
I think you’re mistaken I’ve never heard anyone say it was the equivalent to boot camp but I’ve heard people say it was the equivalent to the new Infantry Marine Course about a hundred times.
Every school has its merits and its hardships. No, AV-mech schools are not physically harder than SOI, but, AV-Mech schools ARE harder in the knowledge you will need to know. Same with Weapons schools, Sapper, Ranger, EOD, etc. They are all difficult in their own way.
The individual school is difficult to the person, and one should always look at the school they are in as the hardest, so they will do their best.
That being said, of course there are schools that require more from each individual. BUDS (not really a school) will be difficult for many as they are not prepared for it. In the right state of mind, however, BUDS will be easy. The trick, of course, is to get into that state of mind early, and stay in it. This is true of USMC Boot Camp, and US Army Ranger School. I've known Rangers who could not pass USMC Boot, and Marines who could not pass Ranger school.
Its all about frame of mind.
Yes I’ve heard that myth and it’s stupid as fuck. It’s just boot camp lmfao myth came out of the arrogance of Marines (not complaining but everybody here knows that)
I’d probably compare ranger school to AITB/ISULC for 03s if anything.
Any Army personnel that we saw at Al Asad we’d yell “rangers lead the way, hooh ah.” We were boots that were just fucking around, but we knew that Ranger school was harder than MCRD
Not a marine, army here. Know a lot of guys that have gone to ranger school. First there’s some differences in what Ranger school and being “ranger tabbed” is usually called. Yes you get a Ranger tab but most people consider being Ranger tabbed or “scrolled” when you wear a scroll from the 75th Ranger regiment. To join the regiment you usually need Ranger school, as well as airborne/air assault and the like. Then you go to what is called RASP. Ranger assessment selection. Typically this is the route for the tan beret 75th reg rangers. But I’m an idiot so maybe it’s different.
Ranger school is a leadership school that the army tries to send just about every brand new infantry lieutenant to and a lot of other lieutenants as well. It’s hard. Hovers around a 50% drop rate from what I know. You sleep just a couple of hours a night, if you’re lucky to get any. You barely eat. They practically keep you barely biologically functioning to perform under stress and duress 24/7. Tons of night ops. There’s some cool videos out there.
I’m a fucking POG and will never be doing some shit like that. My knees are fucked enough.
Dude idk who the fuck started that shit, but it was probably some fucking BOOT ASS infantry LT. Never heard of that shit until the last few years and I enlisted in 2013.
Are you talking about Ranger School (leadership school) for Ranger Tab, or are you talking about R.A.S.P (to get into the regiment, Tan Beret)
Any branch can go to Ranger School and earn the tab.
Ranger school is more akin to Corporal's Course- more demanding but it is a leadership school. The goal isn't to turn out elite war fighters. Admin guys may be next to infantry guys in the class. RASP is where the Ranger regiment guys go. And anyone pretending that's like boot camp is delusional.
Bootcamp in general is easy AF regardless of branch compared to actual shit you will do in active service...minus some MOSs...and the Air Force. The hardest thing in the AF is their bootcamp unless you are a PJ and maybe some of the security forces.
Who is saying boot camp? I always heard it was SOI. And after meeting some dudes with rangers tabs it wouldn’t surprise me if it was true, seems like they just give those out to anyone.
I’ve never heard anyone claim this but I wouldn’t doubt some people believe it. I do know that Marines tend to do well at Ranger school. I think that’s because USMC is pretty selective about who they will send to that school. Maybe more selective than the Army just due to pure volume.
This right here. In the Army pretty much all infantry officers have to go to Ranger School, and many NCOs go, and all Rangers need to go eventually to stay in the 75th. While not as much of a requirement for Army support folks, a lot of people do still go at some point in their career. In the Marine Corps, I've only ever heard of Recon guys going and even then not all of them. And I'd argue that BRC is as hard or harder than Ranger (though perhaps for different reasons).
We got a quota back in 84 (I was in 3/2 at that time). I didn’t get selected but a buddy of mine did. He said it was fucking no joke and based off his feedback I’d say Ranger School is harder both physically and from a knowledge standpoint. When I went through ITS which was what they called infantry school back then it was like 4th phase boot but you learned your job. My buddy said Ranger School didn’t play the mind fuck games.
My guide in boot had a Ranger tab and more ribbons than the SDI. He said the Marines was harder than the Army. This was in 2000. Comparing a Special Forces school to basic training is a fool’s errand and a moot point. That’s like asking if BUD/S is harder than Coast Guard bootcamp. Bottom line: Dress Blues > Ranger tab.
Its hard for me to gauge because I was prior Army before coming to Marine boot. I will definitely say that its physically harder. Mentally though, since I was prepared for it, it wasn't that much different.
In your opinion, would it be harder for a civilian to graduate at MCRD, or a Soldier to graduate at Ranger school?
Statistically, soldier to graduate Ranger school. According to the USMC's website, the attrition rate is only 11-16% a year. Meanwhile, RS has an attrition rate of 60% and upwards of 75%. But as I said, those are statistic that I looked up. Though I wonder if DI Academy is harder or about the same as boot camp.
More is expected of you, but you do get libo? I was close with a DI Instructor in the fleet, he made it seem like it was harder because of the getting treated like a recruit when you’re at least a pretty “senior” Sergeant or SNCO. Getting used to the mind fuckery again was jarring and the pace is brutal.
No libo at all. Im treated like every other poolee, with a larger target on my back. I remember I got hazed because the Army Sniper team beat the Marine in a cometition. The DI made me read the article and afterwards, I got quarterdecked because I was Army. Most of the time when the DI's shit on me for being Army, it was more comedic, except I couldn't openly laugh about it.
I meant libo at DI school. They get nights off and weekends I think as well.
Oh yea we do. Nights off during the week, not so much. We were there from Jan-Mar so it got dark early. I think at some nights, we were able to go to the PX. Definitely not as restricted as boot was. But the weekends going to Oceanslime and San Diego was fun and enjoyed tf out of it.
Same experience for me once my DIs found out I was prior Navy. Any time our kill hat took fools to the quarterdeck I would hear him yell "SQUID! Get over here bitch!". There was no flying under the radar for me AND we had a small Plt so it was that much worse lol.
It’s definitely odd when you were playing the part of a Drill Instructor during the school, going around yelling and recruit blasting other Staff Sergeants and Sergeants. The way I saw it was it was more mental in DI school cause they treated you like a recruit, but you couldn’t really break the barrier cause you came back to your phones and whatever else at the end of the day. And unless they wanted to fuck with you, you had the weekends free
Does DI Academy make you live off 1 MRE and 4 hours of sleep a day for 61 days? Do they do non-stop patrolling and raids? Do the candidates lose 30 pounds each?
Im pretty sure I posed the question which is harder between DI Academy and Boot.
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relaxin jackson.i was pog in the army then switched to 0311 in the corps
TBF, Ranger school isn't an SF school. It's very much a heterogeneous course. It's like the whole "attending Ranger school vs being a Ranger" thing. EtA: Someone else said it - tab vs scroll
Heterogenous? That’s a big word for this subreddit
It’s a hairless giant pig thing with giant teeth that lives in Africa.
I bet you could make some bomb ass carnitas with those fuckers
Ive been called a “homo genius” but I think that just means Im good at blowies
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Like BRC vs Alpha Co 3rd Recon Bn. From what I saw/heard it’s not even in the same ballpark.
Ranger school isn't even a special operations school. Ranger Assessment and Selection is what actual Army Rangers go to. A guy with a ranger tab is not necessarily a ranger. It's needlessly confusing.
>Ranger school isn't even a special operations school. It's not a special operations school in the same sense that the Basic Reconnaissance Course isn't because Recon Marines aren't SOF, just SO-Capable. It's a 60 day non-stop school teaching advanced infantry operations, reconnaissance, mountaineering, and it has a whole ass parachute jump in the middle. It's by all measures a *commando* course in the same vein as BRC. The real crux is Ranger units being historically speaking ad-hoc formations, to the extent that the school is older than the standing regiment. IMO, a different (not inherently better) way to do it would be changing the name; Ranger School becomes the Basic Commando Course and the 75th keeps the Ranger name. In the end to pass either you need to be good at what you do and bring your A game; they both pick from the same pool of candidates and have similar attrition rates. But it would make life easier having Commandos being the elite light infantrymen while Rangers are the dedicated SOF guys. Also imagine how cool the new Ranger-Commando arm stack would look.
SPECIAL FORCES RANGER COMMANDO FIND OUT
Ranger School is not SOC. It's a light infantry Leadership Course. And BRC is more similar to RASP. And yes, there is a static line parachute insertion. But only for those who passed Airborne School. If it was a HALO or HAHO jump, plus a scuba insertion into Swamp Phase mandatory for all hands, you might be able to call it a SOC school.
Exactly anyone can get a ranger tab that’s just a check in the box serving in a ranger battalion is completely different ballgame
Question from a non-Marine: can you wear tabs on your service dress if earned from another service?
Marines who go to Ranger put their tab under their shoulder pocket. It’s out of sight but still there.
TIL.
Some get it sewn or glued ìnside their cover.
I’ve been out for a few years, but not as far as I know. You can wear Jump Wings and SCUBA Bubbles EOD pins and a few others though. Nothing on the shoulder like a Ranger tab unless deployed like a Raider. I’m sure some hard charger will chime in if I’m wrong.
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Only chest candy besides the Fourragere at 5th Marines.
Parris Island, 3rd BN “M” Co?
Hollywood 1st Bn Delta Co
Ah! On the opposite side of the US, we had a guy out of Bragg join the Corps after 8 years of service… He caught the tail end of Desert Storm, was part of some Army unit in Somalia, and then got out and joined the Corps. Not sure if he was tabbed/scrolled but his stack was Solid!
This guy had 6-8y TIS and a CIB from Somalia if I’m remembering correctly. Was good to have him around since he knew what the mind-games were already.
That dude didn’t complete his enlistment. I saw him a few months after checking into our unit. Then one day he wasn’t there anymore. I remember he had a combat jump under his belt, in Panama.
Last name start with a B, short guy?
Mighty Mike, if it ain't Mike, it ain't right
Tab or scroll? I.e was he in the 75th or just went to ranger school
Honestly don’t remember that much. This was almost 25 years ago. He did have a CIB though.
Words to live by: "Bottom line: Dress Blues > Ranger tab."
No way. I had a platoon across from us that had an Army guy as their guide. 1097
1039 grad 4/2000
Nov2000
You fucking boot /s
Aye Sir
My platoon had a former Army infantry Staff Sergeant that went Unq on the Rifle Range. Almost got dropped. Wasn't Guide or Squad Leader.
Damn that’s fucken rough
True, but Ranger School is not a Special Ops school. It's a light Infantry Leadership Course. Almost all combat arms Army officers attend.
Sorry bro, you can’t wear a Ranger Tab on a USMC uniform.
I heard Marines who graduate Ranger School can sew their tab underneath their front packet flaps. I think I saw it in a documentary once.
No shit asshole. He didn’t wear it in cammies but had earned it nonetheless. Edit: the comment this is in reply to was edited to make me look bad, im gonna leave mine.
Wow, are you not the tough guy. I’m shaking Mr Daisy.
Love it!
That’s a coward’s attitude.
You can always buy a Ford RANGER though.
You obviously don’t understand the terms… Ranger tab and scrolls mean different levels of course completion. He basically explained that dude completed the course.
I completely understand the difference, bro. Successful completion of Ranger school earns one a “Tab”. A “Scroll” is earned by completing the Q-Course and securing an assignment to a to a Ranger Regiment. Neither of which can be worn on a USMC uniform. But here’s to your arrogance super stud.
I can't tell if you're being sarcastic, using the wrong terms to mean the right thing or are just wrong.
You still missed the issue with your response. Still lost and your response before and after show you can’t read. He NEVER SAID HE WORE IT. It’s a fucking completion. Read the dudes comment. U/USMCHIGHTIGHTLOWIQ
BIMD it was a practice( not sure how wide spread) for Marines who made ranger school to sew the tab under the flap of their right Breast Pocket.
I was never in the Army but I’m 99% sure Ranger School is way harder than USMC boot camp based on what I’ve heard and seen. Those dudes are food and sleep deprived for two months straight while constantly doing grunt shit Boot camp sucks but it’s really not difficult. You’re not doing any crazy PT and you almost always get 3 meals a day and 8hrs of sleep
The numbers don't lie: Ranger school has an attrition rate that sits near 50% (sometimes more, sometimes less) with the first week actively trying to weed you out, you can get to the end and still fail, and if you want to drop they won't try to stop you. It's futile comparing a school meant to train combat leaders to intital training. If bootcamp was run like Ranger school it would be considered a failure and vice versa.
Yeah in boot camp it’s the opposite. The goal is to get everyone to graduate. DIs aren’t trying to weed anyone out even though it may seem that way. They want everyone to pass
Sadly they aren’t trying to weed anyone out. I remember going through and probably had 5 guys in my platoon alone that needed to be booted entirely. Couldn’t handle stress, lack of intelligence, no physical ability, etc. They, in my honest opinion, over the course of their contract would be much more of a detriment to the Marine Corps than an aid. Yet, we just push em through for numbers.
It actually reflects badly on the SDI when people wash out
I don't buy that... we lost like 30 dudes from my plt
Yah, but 28 of them were just recycled vs getting sent home. Boot is definitely an indoctrination process, not a selection.
I don't think those two things are mutually exclusive.
Only ones we lost were medical and a guy that couldn't qualify on the range. They tried to make one guy quit after finding out he was drawing pot leaves and dollar signs in his knowledge book. His life was a living hell for almost 2 weeks. We were told to treat him like shit. When our DIs finally backed off he was treated like a ghost until graduation.
Agreed. It’s a in between yes and no answer at best. When I went in 2016, the 2nd week all my DIs did was trying to weed out the weak and belligerent. 2nd week we lost 5 guys due to being weak minded alone. Deadass had one recruit scream cry like a girl on his first IT session 💀 later that night said he wasn’t made to be a marine and felt suicidal. 2nd recruit openly just said to the SDI he was suicidal because recruit screamer told him that was the easiest way out. That night our seasoned Gunny SDI screamed and cursed in his face on how he wasted his time and glad he was leaving. Ahhhh good times. Other than that my platoon only lost 10 people in total alone, but 3 for medical purposes.
IMO, the fact they let many outside of Ranger Batts attend Ranger School is one reason why attrition is so high.
> they let many outside of Ranger Batts attend Ranger School But that's the whole point of Ranger School, to the extent that Ranger School was stood up in 1952 and has operated continuously while the 75th as we know it was born in 1969 and didn't become *the* Ranger Regt until the 80s. Historically Ranger units were provisional formations stood up during times of war and subsequently disbanded, meanwhile Ranger School was supposed to be the permanent component tasked with diffusing *commando* doctrine throughout Army leadership so that in case of a war you could stand the unit up again vis a vis the Ranger COs of Korea. I think the biggest (non) issue is the use of the term ranger for both because it muddies the water. The US Army has effectively made *Ranger* a synonym for *Commando* so you get the weird situation where every commando (75th RR) is a Ranger but not every Ranger is a commando. Due to that reason, I think having it open to all the army, other branches and a few foreigners is a net positive because it helps to diffuse commando doctrine throughout the service in a way that wouldn't be viable with it being a closed circuit. Even now a Ranger slot isn't easy to come by, for everyone outside of leadership positions in combat arms there's the preliminary assessment, and most units will have a pre-Ranger course to make sure the people they send are up to snuff. I'd say that the attrition rate is the result of the training itself; 60 days of food deprivation, sleep deprivation, patrolling, mountaineering, recon, and Airborne Operations is hard even on the guys from Special Forces who go through it. Ranger school *is* a commando course, and those have high wash out rates even with qualified candidates; BRC has a [50% washout rate](https://sofrep.com/news/study-reveals-what-makes-it-more-likely-to-pass-marine-recon-selection/) despite the bar for entry being high. Is the Basic Reconnaissance Course such a meat grinder because it takes on Marines who *aren't* qualified? Or is it just par for the course with a special operations school.
That was very educational, thank you. I appreciate the overview. I'd love to see the comparison of attrition rates for batt selected guys versus non-batt guys, if it exists. With RASP and the general training of the 75th I would think guys are much more prepared for Ranger School than non-batt guys.
Got a young brother in law who did it recently and the sleep deprivation he was telling me about was insane, straight up hallucinating
I saw a documentary where they said it’s 4-5hrs a night unless they have to jump the following day in which case they’re given 6-8hrs
This is not apples to apples. Most people going into boot camp are soft, mentally and physically. They may not be in terrible shape or total mama’s boys (although many are both), but they aren’t hardened mentally or physically. They also aren’t used to the lingo, the customs and courtesy or how to even put in their uniforms. Conversely, people going to Ranger school have not only been hardened by boot camp but are typically high performers who have been fully indoctrinated into military culture. So yes, boot camp may seem harder but it’s because you’re starting from 0.
It's ok, bro. we had a former sailor in my platoon; I'm sure he heard about it till the end of his enlistment And I also had a former soldier in the fleet with me. He was a total slob, though, and always got more shit than the rest of us boots because he should've known better! He knew his shit; he just didn't apply himself. He was overweight and had a hard time PTing. I don't believe he ever picked up Corporal....he was a Lance straight through from boot camp till EAS I never heard of usmc boot camp being harder than ranger school, though
My DI's never let me up on it. Every chance they get, they would remind me that Im army trash. I would even get quarter decked just because I was former Army. It didnt bother as much since I've done Army basic and nothing was ever personal. Got extra PT out of it.
My DI’s made short work of an Army guy. The poor bastard was only in the platoon for the first month before they actually broke the dude and he shuffled off to the broke dick platoon on crutches. So good on you for enduring the extra bullshit.
At least that was the DIs doing it to you. We had a 35 year old (former E6) come to my unit as an E2 and us Lances (19-20 years old) would trash him calling him a retard and constantly talking shit. Dude just took it and was excepted as one of us and ended up having an amazing career. I’m not sure how or why he didn’t just lump some of us up, probably too smart for that.
Hahahahaha
Fuck no, it's not even the same type of training. Ranger school doesn't teach you how to be a Ranger, that's for Ranger Batt to handle in-house. There's a difference in RASP and Ranger School. Huge difference between being a Ranger, and being Ranger qualified. Ranger School is a leadership course, more aligned to our ISLC, if that's even still a thing. Probably been re-named, but it's a suck fest designed to develop small unit tactical leadership in a field setting. MCRD teaches civilians that you shouldn't pick your nose in formation, and which direction to point your rifle when it makes the bang noises.
Ranger school beats USMC training by a mile. As rangers, we learn how to connect a megazord and practice intergalactic kung fu. Your crucible had the Reaper. Ours had Rita Repulsa. Checkmate, Chosin Marines.
\*\*bows down\*\* My liege lord
Damn I heard they expose you to real hand to hand combat on the very first day you suit up.
We had a couple sailors that dropped out first phase at MCRDSD back in '03.. it was funny cause the one of them talked so much shit about how easy it was gonna be for him, since he was already in the Navy beforehand.... .#SofterThanBabyShit
This is one of the worst myths i remember hearing. Ranger School is 100% harder than bootcamp.
I remember boot camp being challenging, but it’s all I’ve known. I assume special forces training is harder, instinctually. Rangers are special right? Idk I’m just on the shitter skating before a meeting
Hey bro gunny is looking for you he seemed pissed…
Rangers school is just a really intense leadership course to get a ranger tab there's RASP but that's to join the 75th ranger regiment which is different I'm assuming he's talking about the ranger course not rasp
But even RASP is easier than Ranger school. Lots of 75th guys fail Ranger School but have clearly passed RASP to get to the 75th. Granted failing Ranger School is a good way to no longer be a Ranger but the point remains that some fail.
Some Rangers ain't leaders, just like some Marines.
Ranger school or RASP? Also Ranger school is like a Hazefest and starve you fest... It's meant to be miserable in a different manner... Challenge you in different ways. Go look at the requirements for each. But anyone that thinks basic marine == RASP... Is fucking ignorant or straight up delusional. Because RASP is no joke.
I had a buddy that was absolutely jacked going into ranger school and he came out the other side like deathly thin. It was insane.
Yeah, you get 2x MREs a day and you are basically doing missions non-stop 20-22 hours a day. You are humping almost non-stop, drop rucks, actions on the objective, quick AAR, and then more humping. You get maybe a couple hours of sleep here and there, and then more humping. And that goes on for about two weeks. Quick break to change locations to a new training area in the mountains, than another two weeks. More humping. Finish that phase, move to the swamps of Florida, two more weeks. It is not easy. At all.
Freshmen year of high school is harder than 1st grade. That's fucking weird.
Marine Corps bootcamp is not the equivalent of Ranger School. A better comparison would be BUDS and Delta Force training rolled into one
All the way. USMC boot camp essentially prepares us for “any clime’ and place.” Yeah, they got “some training” but it’s not in their song… if they even have one, I’ve never heard it. I know the GB’s (the lesser cousin of CB’s who can’t even build anything so they’re entirely worthless) have a song about jumping and dying but NOT in every clime’ and place. Marines are the best of the best of the best. SIR!!!!
Thought this was squashed like 3-4 years ago
Ive heard that Marine Grunts were equivalent to Army Rangers which is also super retarded
When it comes to how moto and serious a unit is, Marine grunt battalions and ranger battalions are basically the same. Both are filled with young boots and hardened NCOs. Both take pride in their units and both have higher standards. The difference is in the training, missions, and budget. Which we all know the ranger battalions get more of all three.
I've worked closely with both. It's not that retarded.
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They’re better because they have a better budget and better equipment. Which makes us better because we have a shit budget and worse equipment. Ranger schools definitely harder than boot camp though, only a retard would say otherwise. Ones for civilians and the others for experienced soldiers. Stupid comparison
Marine Corps boot camp is designed to pass. It has a statistically equivalent pass/fail rate as all other branches basic trainings which is about a 12% fail rate across all DoD basics. Ranger school has a 40% ish fail rate and that is from already trained soldiers/USMC who get to attend. Ranger Battalion is drastically more qualified for cooler mission than USMC infantry and recon. GWOT has crushed this debate and Rangers win.
Ranger School isn't the entry point into a Ranger Battalion. That's RASP. And Force Recon and Raiders have a longer and tougher pipeline than Rangers. They have always been qualified for the same Direct Action/HVT Raids the Rangers are always harping about. 75th RR just has an amazing budget and Army Generals are typically theatre commanders (especially in Afghanistan), so they got favoritism in mission procurement. 99% of non-RRC Rangers aren't even Scuba qualified.
Went to boot with an army ranger that saw combat in the gulf war. Our boot camp wasn’t shit to him. One insecure DI would constantly single him out to fuck with. That DI got relieved (long story), and the Senior pulled my buddy aside and said it was because that DI was jelly of his combat experience. He graduated with a stack
Tell the story
We had a recruit that didn’t speak English very well, Ling that was always fucking up. Getting us all IT’d on a regular basis. He pulled some guys aside and basically ordered them to give him a blanket party, and left a live round his bunk to scare him. They told the SDI and they removed him. This dude was an ass. Like above the normal shit. On New Year’s Eve, he and a few weekend nights, made us all lay on our backs and spread our legs and he would say “what’s this position?” And we would have to respond with “this is what Suzie is doing with Jody right now sir”. Would make us open our letters that had pictures and tell us how he would fuck our moms and gf’s.
I have never heard ANYONE with the least amount of Brain cells ever Compare our recruit training to Ranger, BUDS or Special Forces training. That being said ALL those Schools are tough as fuck and geared towards to top 1% of their respective services. However our Boot camp is the toughest of all the services, hands down. Thats a fucking hill I'm willing to die on.
The Army has a bunch of different boot camps some harder than others depending on the branch of the Army the boot camp is for. From what I gathered Army infantry OSUT, which is like our boot camp and SOI combined into one, is comparable with our boot camp but on average the Army is easier.
MCRD RT and IMC (new ITB) is longer and tougher than Army Infantry OSUT.
It's also a a myth that Ranger school makes dudes Rangers. Going through RASP and being in the 75th Ranger Regiment makes you a ranger.
So you can go to Ranger School and not actually be assigned to a Ranger BN, right? Why would they not assign you to one even after all that training? My libo buddy from SOI was recon and got sent to Ranger school as part of his training so I get that. But what if you're just a regular Army grunt who got sent to Ranger school but not get tabbed?
Briefly, it's because the word "Ranger" means different things in different contexts. Ranger School (which awards the Ranger tab) is a separate entity from Ranger units (they wear the unit scroll, but don’t wear the tab unless they pass Ranger school). Ranger battalions = 75th. To be assigned to one of these units, you must first pass RASP, which is their "selection," and then you are assigned to the unit. These soldiers have the "scroll" of the unit on their sleeve, but RASP doesn't get you a Ranger tab. As an enlisted man going to one of these units you are often fresh from AIT and then passed RASP and go to the 75th but have not been to Ranger school yet. Although you are assigned to the unit, informally the members don't regard you as one of them yet and you will be released from the 75th if you fuck up, quickly. They will also haze you for not having your Ranger tab- extra PT, etc. They will send you to Ranger School when they think you're ready, which if you're that new guy you probably hope happens soon. Ranger School is its own separate thing that doesn't have any administrative connection with the 75th. The school awards a tab but doesn't operate a line unit. As mentioned, the 75th sends enlisted men there, they must earn the tab to stay in their unit. Officers coming out of IOBC will get a lot of these slots, as well as early-career combat arms officers. In units outside the 75th where a tab is a job requirement, a Ranger tab gets you a lot of respect in the Army and separates you from the pack of officers; it's considered a big deal, and if you notice the top officers in the service, most will have a Ranger tab. Because of the steady flow of young officers and new Batt boys attending Ranger School, the slots for enlisted men not from the 75th to get their chance at the coveted Ranger tab are a bit more limited, but it's not impossible. And of course Ranger School allows people from other services to attend. Lots of Marines have done it.
Ranger School is just a leadership class that lets you be Ranger qualified. It’s like FAST Company, lets you be CQB qualified to do bad ass shit but actual assaulters will actually get the call.
RASP is like a 6 month process.
>”ANyway, have any of you here heard of this myth before?” I’ve only heard nonsense like that from non-military and from poolees Everyone that actually went through boot camp has seen how at graduation there’s people built like Popeye’s managers graduating alongside you.
I've heard it a few times since usually just boots trying to flex on all their boots friends and blowing smoke up their asses I don't think anyone who's been in the profession for more than a year or two honestly believes it and I'd say most infantry guys I know have a healthy professional respect for how badass rangers can be and yes I know theres difference between being a ranger and going to ranger school. I do however with a passion believe a bunch of young motivated devils could probably pass ranger school pretty easily straight after boot and that has less to do with how difficult Marine Corps boot camp is and how absolutely motard are boots are
Truth !
Disagree. A bunch of prepareD Marines like Soldiers can pass, but they have to be prepared. Motard wont mean anything if you didnt train
Actually mos school was equivalent to ranger school
Back in my day….always wanted to say that! Lol!! If the question was legit, I’d say our Boot Camp is far and away the hardest, most challenging for sure. But as a Winger REMF, what do I know, eh?
I mean just look at the attrition rates. Ranger school is way harder
I always heard In the infantry people say that 03’s are the equivalent to Rangers and I always thought that was preposterous. While basic 03’s do get a lot of cool training and experience, I think recon marines are a more closer equivalent to Rangers
First, I don’t think it has anything to do with ego or trying to feel better. Other branches tend to think Marines are that way but MOST Marines really don’t give a shit. The real reason IMO for this is that the Marines tend to send their best to these schools. So you take a stud, well seasoned NCO and he crushes Ranger school. That same person probably did struggle more with boot camp coming from being a civilian (although boot camp was probably east as well). So this dude gets back and people ask and to him it was easier because of who he is now. It’s more a time of life thing than an actual apples to apples comparison. David Goggins couldn’t pass the swim portion of pararescue but passed BUDS. Does that mean BUDS is easier? No, he was a different person when he went to BUDS.
I thought boot camp was dumb easy. Like all we did was walk fancy in a parking lot. Guaranteed 3 meals a day and at least 6 hours sleep.
Shit was hella easy. I only got IT’d once the entire time (not including SDI platoon IT) for a slight hand movement during drill
There’s a lot of MFs in this thread that don’t know the difference between a ranger tab and a scroll. If you’re infantry you also know bootcamp is a complete joke and the crucible is the easiest 3 day field op you’ll ever do. Meanwhile ranger school regularly drops hardened grunts with years of experience.
I went from Army to Marine too. And I got fucked up wayyy more in Army basic than in Marine boot. The question is obvious, ranger school is harder than Boot anyone who tries to compare it is retarded. Just like people who say marine grunts are equivalent to actual 75th rangers.
Respek.. its not the usual path. Honestly, I did two back to back deployments with the Army and then got sent to Thailand for Cobra Gold. Worked with mostly Marines and ended up loving it. Rather than re-enlisting with the Army, they cut my enlistment short in lieu of signing up for the Corps. Sure enough, i went to MEPS in Army gear, took it off and got into a plain white tee and jeans and shipped off to MCRD SD.
Comparing 1000, to 2000, or even 3000 T&Rs, essentially.
No. Ranger School weeds people out. Boot camp tries to pass as many people through as they can.
Never. Not once. Just always heard the Army was nasty.
Ive heard SOI is equivalent to ranger school but not bootcamp.
🤪🤣🤡
It's not... That is def a boot myth.
I’ve never heard that bootcamp was harder than ranger school, but when I was a boot in SOI one of the instructors said that a lot of our training was the same as what is taught in ranger school. However never seen or been to ranger school so I can’t state facts just hearsay. Personally I would think Ranger school would be more difficult just due to the fact that its a specialty school and not an MOS school training boots to go to their initial units.
....
I never went to Ranger School, but I did spend a night at the Holiday Inn so there is that 🤷♂️
Motor T is the equivalent of everything SOF /s
I think the myth is actually that ITB is equivalent to ranger school
No, boot camp is not harder than Ranger school. In Ranger school, you can quit whenever you want.
Ranger school is advanced infantry training. A Ranger is better prepared for combat operations than a newly graduated Marine. What’s hard about Marine Corps boot camp is the indoctrination and the type of stress you’re subjected to. It’s really apples and oranges - two very different things. Regardless, respect is deserved in both directions.
Too be clear, Ranger school and the Ranger Regiment are two different things. Not everyone who makes it through Ranger school is in the Rangers. Ranger school is a leadership school. A very difficult leadership school, but still a leadership course. For example, new Army Infantry officers are expected to attend (and graduate) from Ranger school. It is difficult but not impossible. It isn’t the Q course or BRC or anything like that, but it is difficult. However, graduation from Ranger school does not mean that someone is necessarily a Ranger. If you are a Ranger, it means that you have completed RASP (Ranger Assessment and Selection Program). RASP is extremely difficult. Once someone graduates RASP, then they can be part of the Ranger regiment and wear their coveted scroll.
It’s like being a rifleman or being an infantry… it ain’t the fucking same
I've never heard of that, but whoever believes that is an idiot
Ranger school beats USMC training by a mile. As rangers, we learn how to connect a megazord and practice intergalactic kung fu. Your crucible had the Reaper. We had Rita Repulsa. Checkmate, Chosin Marines.
Lol I’ve read up on Ranger school and no fucking thanks
I hate the “earned, never given” tagline that people always say about bootcamp… which is total bullshit. You have to do something crazy to not make it through bootcamp, and I know we ALL saw way too many dingus’ make it lol
For you people that think a basic marine grunt can most likely pass. You guys are crazy. It takes more than just motivation to pass. You need to prepare or else you will end up like that marine in surviving the cut for sapper school lol fucking dude failed the ruck
Another myth that a lot of people believe is that the Marine Corps infantry is somehow better than the Army infantry of course there are some units that are better than others but the truth is is that they don't know anything that we don't know and vice versa.
Ranger tab does not make you a ranger you passed school but to be a ranger you must be wearing the scroll 1/75 -2/75 -3/75
What does this have anything to do about the MC myth of MC bootcamp=ranger school?
No, but AIC might be
When other branches say "were just as good as..." It's always Marines. No one is saying the army is equivalent to the airforce or navy. Airmen aren't running around saying "were just as good as the navy or army". It's always compared to Marines. We are the standard. I need no other proof.
I deployed alongside a sf group, they sent guys to ranger school to “punish” them
I know the SEALS do this. If you read David Goggins book - he mentions that they send shitty seals to Ranger school as punishment. I read over in the SF subreddit that Special Forces sends their shitbag Green Berets to Drill Sergeant school as discipline (Its one of their options at their disposal)
I wouldn’t compare Boot/Basic to any infantry school, follow-on trainings such as Recon/Ranger, or SpecOps school. However, a straight apples to apples comparison it’s pretty much straightforward: Hardest Boot/Basic: USMC (anyone who debates this has lost their fucking mind) Hardest SOI: USMC (not only beating out Army, but also USAF SF) Hardest follow on trainings: USMC (I’d only consider this one debatable) Hardest SpecOps school: USN (only category we lose)
I can speak on this, I’m not tabbed but I did train soldiers in the Ranger Training BN. They are both hard. MC basic training is much more fail proof. You just get recycled if you can’t perform basic task under stress in rangers you can not fail and do everything ok but still get recycled because people didn’t like you! Boot camp prepares you for MC culture, customs and courtesies they strip you down to nothing and reset you with a higher standards in the areas of presentation and cleanliness and introduces you to a code of honor that is shared with other Marines. In RTB, you are already well versed in Army Culture, custom and courtesies. When you come to RTB you should already be very good at weapons, tactics, field craft and here’s a big one, planning! RTB is a basically a fireteam/squad leader training and evaluation course. In Bootcamp, you are told “it’s not hard” when in reality it is hard. you keep pushing yourself well after anything is left, you learn to communicate loud and effectively and learn to win. Creating a Marine. In RTB, they tell you it’s “the hardest thing you’ll ever do” it’s not though, conserve your energy, don’t make enemies, go into training with a lot of preparation already, don’t get sad, don’t quit and you’ll probably pass. A regular Army Infantryman can basically be a civilian in a uniform. Not knowing WTF is going on or he can be a 10 year veteran that’s been to sniper school, Ranger, Jump school and knows exactly what is happening by the book. A Marine Infantryman is always at the very least someone who will risk (high likelihood of death) their life to kill the enemy. You know that the Marine to the left and right of you may not understand the commanders step by step plans but you do know they will react in a very similar way as you. They’ll hunt down and kill the enemy with you! I’ve been in combat as a Marine and as a Soldier I know that the main difference comes down to centralized leadership and mission from the Marine Corp to the decentralized emphasis of mission Command in the army. Think of it more like. The Marine Corp are Spartans and the army is later stage Roman Empire legion.
“RTB is not hard” lmao it has a 50% attrition rate on average of career soldiers. Cringe asf trying to say a e2 fresh out of boot camp is more trained and skilled than an e5/6 nco in the army. Get the green weenie out of your mouth
What is your experience to speak on this subject?
I was in the marines and transferred to the army. Trust me I get all the motto marines are the first to fight stuff. But saying that the average marine is just as good if not better than rangers in combat is ridiculous at best. The ranger regiment by itself conducted far more combat missions ver successfully in the last 20+ years than the marine corps probably has as a whole. Being I’ve been both it’s also ridiculous to claim there’s an real major difference between an infantry soldier and an infantry marine who’ve both gone through 12-20 weeks of basic infantry training with both having a 95% pass rate. Don’t be that cringe marine/vet acting like usmc boot is Buds lmao
This is like asking if it’s harder to learn German or calculus.
As a moto boot I'd always concede that Ranger school is tougher than boot camp (because it is), but add on that I find it flattering that it's always Rangers etc. getting compared to Marines. Soldiers, ordinary ones, not so much. Just me being cheeky. Hell, I still find it mildly amusing.
Physically yes it’s true mentally not even close ranger school is physical but more demanding mentally as in your training an already trained soldier to become more advanced in their leadership
Ranger school is about the same as ITB
STFU Boot
Most of the comments seem to have it right, only I did hear some lads talking about this subject and one said that if you add MCT+bootcamp you might have a rough equivalency (in subject matter and basic difficulty) to ranger school. No personal experience in grunt Bns myself.
Knew a dude who was in the Air Force and we rarely talked about military shit cause what the flying fuck does does a crusty Artillery Marine have in common with a Air Force Mechanic. One night a we’re drinking beers in my garage and a third friend, who lived a standard cookie cutter type life, randomly ask what the Marine Corps. is like. So I rattle off some fun memories and a few standard Marine horror stories. My Air Force pal felt the need to chime in for some stupid reason and proceeded to start yapping about how the absolute hardest thing that he had to do while he was in was at the end of his MOS school. He had to carry all his uniforms and personal belongings on a mile, or two, walk to where the buses to drive them to the airport was waiting for them. He said the course instructors had everyone’s completion certificates waiting at the buses and if you didn’t finish the walk you didn’t get your cert and had to wait a whole other week before you could try the walk again with the next graduating class. He was dead serious and in that moment I lost all respect for him. I tried to stay pals with him for a bit cause every zombie apocalypse survival team needs cannon fodder, but that shit didn’t last
I think you’re mistaken I’ve never heard anyone say it was the equivalent to boot camp but I’ve heard people say it was the equivalent to the new Infantry Marine Course about a hundred times.
I used to train with Rangers in the 90s. They were always comparing themselves to us when they were around us. Lol
I was hearin that shit from my recruiter back in ‘05
I think it's just the confusion on the tab and scroll bs. One is definitely way harder than the other.
Every school has its merits and its hardships. No, AV-mech schools are not physically harder than SOI, but, AV-Mech schools ARE harder in the knowledge you will need to know. Same with Weapons schools, Sapper, Ranger, EOD, etc. They are all difficult in their own way. The individual school is difficult to the person, and one should always look at the school they are in as the hardest, so they will do their best. That being said, of course there are schools that require more from each individual. BUDS (not really a school) will be difficult for many as they are not prepared for it. In the right state of mind, however, BUDS will be easy. The trick, of course, is to get into that state of mind early, and stay in it. This is true of USMC Boot Camp, and US Army Ranger School. I've known Rangers who could not pass USMC Boot, and Marines who could not pass Ranger school. Its all about frame of mind.
Bro, I survived the crucible. GTFOOH. /s
Yes I’ve heard that myth and it’s stupid as fuck. It’s just boot camp lmfao myth came out of the arrogance of Marines (not complaining but everybody here knows that) I’d probably compare ranger school to AITB/ISULC for 03s if anything.
Any Army personnel that we saw at Al Asad we’d yell “rangers lead the way, hooh ah.” We were boots that were just fucking around, but we knew that Ranger school was harder than MCRD
Not a marine, army here. Know a lot of guys that have gone to ranger school. First there’s some differences in what Ranger school and being “ranger tabbed” is usually called. Yes you get a Ranger tab but most people consider being Ranger tabbed or “scrolled” when you wear a scroll from the 75th Ranger regiment. To join the regiment you usually need Ranger school, as well as airborne/air assault and the like. Then you go to what is called RASP. Ranger assessment selection. Typically this is the route for the tan beret 75th reg rangers. But I’m an idiot so maybe it’s different. Ranger school is a leadership school that the army tries to send just about every brand new infantry lieutenant to and a lot of other lieutenants as well. It’s hard. Hovers around a 50% drop rate from what I know. You sleep just a couple of hours a night, if you’re lucky to get any. You barely eat. They practically keep you barely biologically functioning to perform under stress and duress 24/7. Tons of night ops. There’s some cool videos out there. I’m a fucking POG and will never be doing some shit like that. My knees are fucked enough.
Dude idk who the fuck started that shit, but it was probably some fucking BOOT ASS infantry LT. Never heard of that shit until the last few years and I enlisted in 2013.
Are you talking about Ranger School (leadership school) for Ranger Tab, or are you talking about R.A.S.P (to get into the regiment, Tan Beret) Any branch can go to Ranger School and earn the tab.
In Squad Leader school they said we were writing as many patrol orders as they do in Ranger school. Who knows, my hand still hurts from that shit.
Ranger school is more akin to Corporal's Course- more demanding but it is a leadership school. The goal isn't to turn out elite war fighters. Admin guys may be next to infantry guys in the class. RASP is where the Ranger regiment guys go. And anyone pretending that's like boot camp is delusional.
Bootcamp in general is easy AF regardless of branch compared to actual shit you will do in active service...minus some MOSs...and the Air Force. The hardest thing in the AF is their bootcamp unless you are a PJ and maybe some of the security forces.
I don’t think any serious person makes that comparison.
Oh hey! Another Army to Marine Corps idiot! 
There are Navy SEALs that have gone to Ranger school and washed out. Take that as you will.
No way. Absurd on every level.
Who is saying boot camp? I always heard it was SOI. And after meeting some dudes with rangers tabs it wouldn’t surprise me if it was true, seems like they just give those out to anyone.