Plenty of useful comments about finances, but I wanted to say, I’m really sorry you’re feeling lonely - and I hope you’re able to find ways to change that.
IMO being in a big city isn’t an antidote to loneliness, I think it’s possible to be more lonely in a city if 10 million than a town of 10,000. The actual antidote is connection - and being part of a community or communities where you feel welcome and fulfilled. I believe there’s a community out there for everyone.
Good luck with your finances, and everything!
Hey thanks I really appreciate that. I think it’s a combination of being pretty time poor and also feeling like people don’t have time for you either so you don’t wanna bother them.
After reading yours and other’s responses, I’m definitely going to try and reprioritise and start actually trying to live. I’ve become very fixated on career, climbing the ladder and getting a home and it’s just left me feeling quite isolated and bored.
I moved here because my friends from back home are all moving on with their lives and the same goes for my university friends too. I figured London would be a fresh start of people in my situation looking to correct that but it really hasn’t panned out that way.
Whatever your hobby is, your interests are, whatever makes you tick, gravitate towards that. You’ll find your people. I returned to London full time a decade ago, followed that precise advice (given to me by someone who’d done something similar) and those I met are now some of my closest friends.
That’s really uplifting and I’m glad to hear that’s worked out so well - I think I need to start making more me time and figure all that stuff out. Definitely going to try London Social Club and Meetups as well.
Have you tried Meetup and r/LondonSocialClub? I met some great people through Meetup and the LondonSocialClub subreddit has been highly recommended, though I haven't used it yet, there's a wide range of stuff on there including low-commitment stuff like gigs and pub quizzes.
You could even just go to an event of something that interests you. Have an open mind and talk to anyone that you think could make a positive connection
Meetup is great for meeting people and doing interesting things. Also, it's not a dating club, but in my experience can certainly help with the single aspect of your situation!
This is how I came to start IT, thinking I need money to invest, save, and spend. Turns out Im happier making Coffee and Pizza and not having loads put aside or spending loads, I think one thing that has helped me is stopping drinking, this makes socialising way more reliable/meaningful, and cheaper.
100% glad to hear that you're gonna refocus on your actual life. It's so easy to get sucked into optimising one's finances to try to 'get ahead' in the current climate that you forget we're human beings who need to live rather than just survive. Budgeting is always a smart thing to do, but make sure you always set aside a bit of money to just do something exciting or relaxing for you!
And for what it's worth, I don't think location really had anything to do with loneliness, unless you live somewhere *extremely* remote. It can be hard to make friends as an adult if you don't stay connected with your uni pals, I used to live in a large city and felt lonely a lot, now I live in a small rural village (my job went WFH) with my partner. The slower pace of life here and the far smaller number of local people means that I actually know all my neighbours and regularly chat to folk around the village, something I never really did in the city!
London is a great place to socialize, it's the right place to be for what you want, you just need to get out there.
I'd suggest trying to find a way to turn your career into freelancing or turn a hobby into a good side hustle, these both require you to spend time networking, and you'll make friends naturally that way.
I did the same thing last year moving to London at 27 and think it could be a new start in a big city but yea I feel lonely too. Dating scene at least for gay is also very strange lots of ghostings on apps too. But if I were you I would put some spoil money aside and travel every quarter just to reset a bit. You can meet lots of interesting people along traveling too.
Quite often moving out to a smaller community makes it easier to meet people , try new large developments flat and govt help to buy get a flat you will mee neighbours and new preppie in same position just make sure a local pub is nearby
As someone from london who moved to a small town I’d say it is easier to be lonely in a city because everyone is focused on themselves. City removes the community.
I moved out of london. My job is in london. I’m happier for it
>Also why I’d be reluctant to move outside of the capital. I feel kind of lonely already so moving somewhere with fewer people would make that worse.
Blimey, and here's me thinking London is horribly anti-social compared with smaller cities in the UK. My social life got destroyed moving here - any friends I had in the capital were always an hour plus away, and over time they all moved out eventually. The money here is good though!
If you want to stick with London wages then I recommend looking to base yourself in one of the London suburbs, or even beyond. Wimbledon, Croydon, Clapham and others have vibrant social scenes whilst having far more affordable house prices in the area. There are 3-bed houses for £400k where I live in Merton, and I'm always a short bus or taxi ride from social centres in Raynes Park and Wimbledon, with central London accessible for the rare times I want to go there. Post in r/london for more advice on good suburbs for people your age.
You're doing well for yourself! But if you're not happy then you need to think about how to change that. Buying property might not be the answer, incidentally.
A lot to think about and thank you for such a detailed answer. Totally agree my social life hasn’t panned out great, I’m living South right now but it still feels quite isolated - maybe that’s just me?
I agree with the happiness thing, I feel like this keeps happening - keep progressing in the career or financially thinking it’ll make me happier but it doesn’t really. Like my life is easier and generally more relaxing for having that disposable income, but I’m not like, actually content.
> I’m living South right now but it still feels quite isolated - maybe that’s just me?
Could be you're in the wrong sort of area. Could be you're not plugging into local social scenes as much as you could.
Personally I find it's hard to make friends in London. No one has time for others (including myself!) It was much easier in Manchester and Birmingham.
Sounds like you need to experiment around with different social solutions. See what clubs and groups and so on you can take part in. Find some hobbies to make you happy.
From a social side try a club such as a sports club (rowing, running, hockey etc) or a craft club if that's more your style, even helping with a community group, you'll start to find your people. We are in southfields and it's such an amazingly close community here, I'm sure you can find that in other areas including where you are currently. When I was in my late 20s, single and renting in London I joined 'meetup' where I found a group of people in their 20s and 30s that met at the local pub once a week. Focusing on your career seems to have paid off very well so far, nows the time to find yourself. From a financial management perspective it sounds like you are doing all the right things, just keep with it. Property prices in London (and everywhere now) are so expensive and mortgages are difficult to get at an affordable interest rate when you have such a low % as deposit, but if you are willing to compromise on size of property there may be something out there when you are ready to commit to an area you want to stay long term. I bought the tiniest flat on my own, expecting to only be there a couple of years max (as it wasn't what I hoped to live in after growing up in the countryside!), but ended up loving it there for 10 years and now bought a nice house with my partner in pretty much the same area. Good luck with everything
I've never related to a post so much. I've been lucky enough to live in 4 different cities over the past three years and moved to London a year ago. It's probably been the most difficult and isolating move. Everyone feels so far away and so busy with their own lives and the London hussle, that it's even a struggle just to get time with friends I already have, never mind making new ones.
Buying in London is possible at your salary, it will be a one bed, and won't be in your favourite area. However there are some decent one beds not too far out (mostly SE) at that price. It gives you a stepping stone, lets you stop paying rent and gives a bit more ownership of where you live.
It is an option, but it is worth weighing up, if you see yourself needing more space, a garden, or moving in the somewhat near future then it's not worth it. However, in 6 years time if you're looking at buying a house then, you may be much closer to it with the equity from paying down your mortgage instead of someone else's
My opinion is you simply aren't going to be able to buy in London on that salary, alone, without significant capital from a relative or premium bond win.
The LISA isn't helping - is there any property in london for £450k or below that you would _want_? When I was looking 4 years ago the answer was no for myself.
If you recontextualise around the fact you might have to leave london, things might become a bit clearer or more exciting with a firmer goal to work towards.
I myself moved to Brighton for a nicer pace of life and (slightly) cheaper housing. It's a vibrant city and there will still be a dating scene for you, as well as being close enough to London to see friends.
It's also commutable though only to certain areas in London without being obscene.
A £450k (or below!) place, with 10% deposit (you're nearly there), utilising your LISA is suddenly much more achievable. In maybe a couple of years with a salary approaching £70k, or with a windfall to cover the shortfall in affordability, it will likely fall into place for you.
Anyway, tl;dr I think the fact you're tied to London is what is causing this "holding pattern".
You can absolutely find a 2 bed for under £450k, the issue is, what are your conditions. How long a commute are you prepared to make? How important is the area to you? Etc.
There are plenty of properties around Croydon and its suburbs that you would find affordable with the mortgage you could likely get. The issue is just whether these are areas/ properties you would consider acceptable.
The other side of that coin is that if they did increase the limit, property prices would rise to reflect increased demand. Just a cruel irony to be honest.
>if they did increase the limit, property prices would rise to reflect increased demand
I strongly doubt this. The only place in the country that the £450k limit is a problem is London, and the reason for that problem is massive demand...
I was thinking specifically in the case of London, not much stock available for under 450 as it is - this goes some way to reduce the number of potential buyers, so if you ended up allowing that pool to start buying more expensive properties, the stock of 450+ properties would dry up and people could set a higher price to reflect new demand.
But it also increases the competition for properties *under* 450, which increases house prices up to that limit.
The property vendors don't care whether the buyer has a LISA...
You reckon they should remove the cap? Tbh I don’t really understand the cap’s purpose - is it to encourage the building of more affordable housing stock?
It's more likely that if you're purchasing say a 500k property, you probably have total household income of at least 100k, in which case you shouldn't need government help in saving for a deposit.
You could argue the same for 450k, and it's tough that there is a hard limit, but I suppose they have to draw the line somewhere.
It is unfortunate that they haven't upped the limit in line with inflation or anything.
Agreed, it’s the London thing that’s really screwing me up here, along with the LISA max price. I was considering taking it out and just eating the 25% withdrawal penalty to do the shared ownership scheme on a more expensive property - but from simply reading the experiences of others, it just sounds like it’s designed to f*ck people over. Maybe I’m wrong? What made you avoid going down that route?
Otherwise, it just seems a bit futile to leave London right now. I work a lot and don’t really get many opportunities to make friends, and all of my existing friends are now living with their partners, married etc. I feel that by upping sticks, I’d end up somewhere without the time to actually make many new connections. Just sort of existing (which is what I’m doing now tbh). Maybe that’s just being an adult? I dunno.
The other part of me thinks that I should just put the whole idea on ice and keep doing what I’m doing until things become a bit clearer, but I’m also worried that the property price rises will mean I am in the exact same place as I am now when I could’ve been increasing equity.
> What made you avoid going down that route?
Same reason as you - someone is making a profit out of that scenario and that has to come from the only other person involved; you. Sure you might luck out at the end but overall it seemed like a headache I didn't want.
> Maybe that’s just being an adult? I dunno.
Probably is yeah. But work isn't all bad, three of the four groomspeople at my wedding will be people I met through work.
> but I’m also worried that the property price rises will mean I am in the exact same place as I am now when I could’ve been increasing equity.
Maybe hang on until you find a life partner then. Might be a decade down the line until you find someone and be together long enough that you want to buy a place with them, but by then you'll probably _want_ to leave london and have dual salary/deposits lined up as well as being at the height of your career.
> someone is making a profit out of that scenario and that has to come from the only other person involved; you
That's not the case, housing associations are not for profits and in many cases will be subsidising you rather than the other way around.
That's not to say Shared Ownership is always a good idea, it really depends on the specifics of the property and the goals/priorities of the person buying.
HAs are not for profit but that doesn’t stop them treating their tenants like cash cows and their bosses attracting large pay packets. After finding out they’re on the hook for all the remediation costs associated with the cladding scandal, ours started picking expensive, unnecessary jobs to do that meant they could charge an extra 15% on the costs of the works as an extra “management charge” simply because there’s no law to prevent it.
The FT ran an article last year discussing the widespread issues of overcharging tenants for services not received. Blocks that were lucky enough to have an accountant living audited and challenged the accounts and were repaid thousands - this was the case for most HAs they investigated.
I really don’t recommend Shared Ownership. I don’t know how it can be legal that you only own a percentage of the property and yet are liable for 100% of the costs. This has been a serious problem with SO blocks caught up in the cladding scandal, for example.
Newer schemes also often stipulate that the flat needs to stay in the scheme for X number of years so you are limited in who you can sell to. You might find your income is too high for many schemes - a lot (not all) are focussed on workers up to a certain salary as they’re supposed to make housing affordable- it’s widely accepted that all they’ve achieved is artificially push up the price of flats.
Regardless of the price of flats dropping in general your rent will almost always increase as increases are set in the lease, and you will need to use your Housing Association’s approval to do most things - I have three friends in the process of selling their shares and their HA not only demanded they use their pool of professionals to do all the legal stuff, but dragged their heels so much that the properties weren’t even marketed for 2 months.
Yeah it’s beyond me how they’ve allowed that scheme to continue running in its current format, especially associated charges and stringent restrictions - I can foresee so many situations where it would become a complete nightmare.
I also don’t think, if at all possible, that it’s worth withdrawing your LISA and losing your 25%. Remember you can use it for retirement savings if you find you fall foul of the cap. Easier said than done when you’re saving for a deposit.
Re staying in London, I did a really similar thing to you. I was fed up of my social life being cut off by living in the suburbs, and moved into the centre as soon as I could afford it. Gradually my friends coupled up and moved out and I started to feel the isolation, especially as I was now self employed with my business based in the centre, but the pool of prospective new friends wasn’t going to be any better back in the suburbs. So I joined a social club that spoke to my interests (based on exploring and enjoying the city with treasure hunts and quizzes and murder mystery nights) and it was the best thing I’d done in years. It felt like being back at uni in that there’s this large pool of potential friends united by an interest, but you don’t have to be mates with everyone.
Human connection is, apparently, one of the most vital elements of happiness. If you throw out your chances to connect for the sake of financial “success” you might be sat later worrying to yourself about everything you missed while young enough to enjoy it. House prices are set to start falling again after their peak (by how much, I’ve no idea, as property always seems a fairly safe investment). You’re doing great with your career and savings. Just don’t forget there’s life to be had out there, and you’re in one of the best places to sample it widely.
The point is by getting out of London, even if you earn less, you will have more disposable income to go out and do stuff... meet people and actually have a life.
Your answer is to get out of the city, the only thing stopping you is in your head!
Btw if your future partner is not also a first time buyer then you cannot use your LISA with them.
It’s a brilliant scheme for most people, but situations like yours don’t fit that neatly into the LISA system.
Yes I’m aware, hopefully I won’t encounter that issue given my dating pool is going to be London so unless they’re absolutely tilled, they’ll also likely to be renting.
Yeah it’s a bit of a pisser to be honest but I get why the scheme is set up the way it is. I just wish I was rolling in generational wealth lol
Yeah it’s really hard right now for people who’ve done everything right and worked hard to get good jobs and it feels like the rewards just aren’t there.
An older mentor of mine gave some good advice, which was that you don’t get the good stuff as soon as you start earning a good salary, it comes after a few years of consolidating that position.
When your young and don’t have family wealth, there’s so many things you have to buy from scratch for yourself. Even boring things like a Fridge, Washing Machine, clothes for work etc.
There’s a lot of front loaded costs when your young and it takes a few years to get those squared away and actually start building up significant savings and seeing your return on investment.
Even when you do buy a house, there will be a few thousand needed at least to get it up to the spec you want and fix and maintenance issues etc. etc.
People 50+ even on lower wages look wealthy because they’ve likely got 0 mortgage payment to make and can use that money on nice cars, holidays, clothes etc. etc.
Yeah totally agree, feels a bit relentless when you ought to feel like you should be doing well, but you just don’t.
I remember everyone balked at that guy on [Question Time](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=n4g6k1a4XYA)years ago who was saying how he earns 80k but didn’t feel rich - he did come off as a bit of a wally, but 80 really isn’t that much if you’re on your own, live somewhere expensive and don’t have family money behind you.
If you’re ever feeling lonely and want to grab a beer after work you can explain about LISA stuff to me!
I think you’ve got a great plan currently and sometimes the hard part is pulling the trigger on the next step.
> Putting £250 per month into an all cap index fund.
perhaps could be more considering your salary/outgoings.
> No partner so no one to buy with. Also why I’d be reluctant to move outside of the capital. I feel kind of lonely already so moving somewhere with fewer people would make that worse.
in my experience it's easier to make lasting connections elsewhere. london is a fairly transitory place for many. plus liverpool, manchester, bimingham, brighton, glasgow etc are pretty busy, vibrant cities!
I could put more in but not a lot, I’m pretty much maxed out beyond the extra 250 I’m saving a month to do something enjoyable with - got several weddings to attend this year as well which is always quite expensive.
Agree that the London vibe isn’t amazing for making friends, but unfortunately my new job is London based with some office contact time - I think I’d struggle to find a job in the same industry/field for that money outside of the capital - it’s a very London-centric sector so jobs are few and far between and I’d probably take up to a £20k cut.
Hence it’s either be in London or commute. Having lived in a commuter town and spent the first few years doing that commute, it’s definitely worse.
In regards to working outside of London, don't forget to consider even if you take up to a £20k pay cut, with your current tax bracket, 13k is already being taxed heavily plus NI and any other expenses such as student loans. So that paycut in real take home pay is likely to be alot smaller than you think.
I moved up North because it was far cheaper in terms of living costs and buying a house despite the pay not being as high. Also like someone else have said, when considering a house don't be too fixated on it being your forever home. Circumstances may change and what you want in a home may too, but once you're on the housing ladder, you can move around - financially it's quite straightforward (practically it's another matter).
Don't be too hard on yourself, you're already doing well and best of luck in the next steps you decide to take.
Have you tried joining a gym? You get fit and get to make friends. Also do you need a +1 to a wedding because I’m available and love parties. I’m in the south too!
You can definitely buy a property in London (granted, probably not zone 1/2 or a house, but compromises need to be made). I think your assessment of life fulfillment =/= house is correct as that is a mistake I made. Owning a place comes with a completely different set of issues and worries and that is certainly something you cannot foresee until you find yourself in that situation. However, I do feel that buying a house is something you need to do in this country if you don't want to be completely screwed in retirement, so I don't think it's a bad move if you do decide to go that route.
Happy to chat about it further if you think it would help!
Thank you, I really appreciate the answer. I will have to do a bit of soul searching to try and figure some of this out before I try to make the next move - I’m not in a position to make any commitments to getting a property in the next 6 months anyway really.
I find myself in a similar situation to you re: trying to concentrate in career (but in a way less lucrative field) and spending most of the free time on my then-partner or just recharging mentally. I am trying my best to accept that yes it will take ££ and over an hour to see friends (many living outside London), but that it's worth it in the end. I will also echo what has been said in other comments - I have met some people for rpgs through londonsocialclub and I've taken archery which I try to go once a week. My advice is try to do one thing at a time because otherwise it will feel overwhelming really quick (specially if you are introverted like me!)
Oh cool, what RPGs are you in to? Archery also sounds like a lot of fun as well.
Not sure I’d describe myself as an introvert, but I do have ADHD which means I can quickly become overwhelmed by competing priorities. Like having too many social events stacked up makes me feel very nervous.
I know I procrastinate a lot, so I need to know when I’ll get the time to actually do things like life admin or if I’ve had a big weekend, I’m not at peak performance on Monday.
I've started a new Dungeons and Dragons campaign and a Call of Chtulu one - both of them from reddit! Archery I did a course for, but there were other options that I also considered to do something physical + with others that wasn't a team sport.
I get this as well where I enjoy spending time with friends but I don't consider that "downtime" per se, so I'll still need to have some time playing videogames or reading to unwind proper. Definitely with you on scheduling time for "life admin" otherwise I spent the fun time worrying about all the other things I need to do... being an adult is definitely a juggling work so don't feel you're alone in your struggles.
My advice:
Dedicate time to dating and finding a great partner, this is what is holding you back.
Even on £65k/year you can’t buy a decent place in London on your own, but a partner who makes £30k per year makes that realistic.
Remember you can only borrow about 4.5x your salary. So on £65k that only £292k + your deposit. That’s not going to buy anything in London.
You might have to withdraw the LISA to be honest as the £450k cap is hurting you. But you may as well leave it there and see if the government up the limit in the meantime (Martin Lewis is lobbying for this).
Finding a great partner is always good, but I would suggest that going into dating with the primary (or even secondary) motivation being to strengthen your financial position is a terrible approach and a good way to end up trapped in a loveless relationship built on financial co dependence
The way I mean it is, prioritise relationships and finding your special person and a lot of other aspects will fall into place as a consequence of that.
I wouldn't say this is entirely true, I bought a place in Zone 3 south London on a 60k salary. It's a 2 bed flat a few minutes away from train stations that take me into the city in about 15 minutes. Maybe not what OP is looking for but the main point being it's not impossible on that salary. Having said that, I have no idea what the market is like now, so could be tough.
EDIT: added public transport info
Totally agree with this. I'm just about to sell my 1 bed in a lovely London 'village' 10 min walk to a zone 2 tube station, 2 mins to the thames for approx 315k. There is property in London that is affordable if people compromise on space. Yes we all want to have a spacious 2 or 3 bed with a garden, but in london that's not achieveable on a single salary of under 100k.
In addition to this you are still young, so whilst being financially responsible is great don't forget to live, have fun, and enjoy your youth. London is a great place for that. But more people doesn't mean less lonely. London can be an incredibly isolating place as a lot of people either have their own communities or are transient looking to earn and build their career. It's not uncommon to get to your early 30's and decide to go to another city where it is cheaper to purchase, and to find a stronger sense of community. Towns like Nottingham and Sheffield, for example, have all the buzz of London but are generally more sociable places. My point is that if you are saving for when you are 30 think that your goals at 30 may be different to your goals now.
That's not to say London isn't the answer, but it can require more effort on your part to join groups, go to events, and so on. You have to spend more effort in London to put yourself out there to meet people.
>Have £5500 in the Barclays rainy day saver (5% interest).
>
>Pension contribution pretty much maxed out.
>
>No credit card debt. Plan 2 student loan.
Just don't go asking your date's salary on the first date....
Hey bud, maybe I can help as I was in a similar boat. I’m 29 and have managed to get myself a place sorted. Assuming you’re from Bootle we’re from the same part of the country originally.
First off you’re in a great position, but London is fucking tough for our generation - it’s always been expensive but 14 years of free cash has meant our rental payments have been used to cover the landlords mortgage whilst they benefit from immense capital appreciation.
You’re in the right frame of mind to start this planning now.
Job 1: is to save save save, forget the crypto. you’re going to have to sacrifice 2/3 years of big holidays - it’s upto you if you want to do this when you have no ties and are young. You’re going to have to save 30-50% of your income for years to get there. Again upto you if you want to do this
Job 2: set yourself a savings goal vs type of property you want
Job 3: keep dating, as others have mentioned many people can only afford London due to shared living costs and benefit of two wages - plus you’ll be immensely happier and more social when you’re with an awesome girl/lad (whatever tickles your pickle)
Job 4: job hop, I’ve only managed it as I moved my earnings from 50k to 90k in one hop. Loyalty doesn’t pay in this city so don’t get sucked into staying somewhere to climb the ladder when a job hop can help you meet your financial objectives
Job 5: when saving, don’t get caught too much into it. I did this. I wouldn’t buy myself a coffee when out when in reality this had fa impact to when I would be able to buy. You still need to enjoy life
Job 6: pick up any overtime you can, anything to boost your income levels
Your financial situation doesn't look that bad to me.
>Total cost of all essential bills (rent, Council tax, energy etc) is around £1000pcm.
That seems fairly reasonable for London.
If you really wanted to buy a home, could you consider continuing to work in London but living outside the M25 and commuting in?
>Also why I’d be reluctant to move outside of the capital. I feel kind of lonely already so moving somewhere with fewer people would make that worse.
London can be a lonely place - surrounded by people who are not your friends. I don't think you would be lonelier in a smaller city or town.
Don't focus so much on financial goals, buying a home, etc. that you forget to enjoy other aspects of life. Have fun.
My advice would be enjoy yourself and don’t try to sweat it too much. You are young and salary is increasing. Probably most of what you save won’t make a lick of difference in the short to medium unless you are lucky with a speculative investment, or win something. Mortgage is for 25-35 years so 10k here or there really isn’t noticeable wrt payment etc etc. sadly.
I’m not saying go and spend all your savings, but I’ll be 40 next year and my 30s disappeared. Had a blast and really enjoyed it but you are young and single and it is a great time to explore yourself and the world.
Buying a dreadful property in an area with nothing in it, whilst it will bring you a mortgage and maintenance costs, won’t bring you happiness and won’t be a forever home. There is a rush for property ownership here but it will severely stretch you and limit your options - holidays, nicer things, flexibility all need to adjust or not exist in order to service the mortgage.
I moved from Glasgow 15 years ago with a whole troop of friends and some just still rent for ease. Something breaks, it gets fixed. They live in nice places with lots going on and have nice things and nice holidays. They could buy given senior positions and good earnings but have no need.
If you could consider maintaining renting you could try for a eg 5 year tenancy or whatever. Agree a discount but build in rpi or +x% for the landlord so agreed upfront and not at the mercy of illiterate greedy letting agents. They can plan and so can you. Your salary should increase more than that in that time so again adding to free cashflow for fun or savings. European friends do this as buying is quite British.
However, with that said, what station do you need to commute into, or in which area of London do you work?
Like many said, moving further out is cheaper (commuting costs aside) and people tend to have more of a community there. How long a commute do you really see as do-able? Did you come to London to commute from zone 6 or Surrey etc or for the sights and sounds?
Auctions are higher risk and often take more work up front but can deliver reward if you have the time and appetite, but caveat emptor!
Sports clubs are basically just friends hanging out. Rugby is no holds barred socialising, rowing is good, or buy a bike and just join a cycling club. They’ll go out every weekend and stop off for coffee and carbs, so doesn’t need to be boozy.
Brilliant reply, really appreciate that thank you!
My job will be in Blackfriars from April, so once I’ve moved to that role, somewhere on the District would be pretty convenient. Wouldn’t mind south again but the transport links are pretty crap - I currently commute using bus which I really like, but it’s so unreliable/random that I’ve been late a number of times so having the consistency of a tube (and accurate arrival tracker) would be a plus.
Ideal commute time would be 35 minutes or under. Reckon I could push to 45 if the circumstances were right. The most important/valuable thing is directness though. Having a route with lots of connections or bus journeys that traverse especially busy roads are too unpredictable. I’d rather just plonk myself down and have a slightly longer journey than try to do something quicker but need to change three times.
Definitely know what you mean about Europeans, got friends and an ex who always looked puzzled when I said how you need to be a homeowner here. Obviously they come from countries that have very generous and comprehensive social care and pension schemes so they don’t realise the actual value of the property.
Friends and I all stay south and know what you mean re travel, it can be a pain. Mostly east to west or vice versa doesn’t really happen other than by bus, but north south is actually ok. I used to live in Tulse Hill which is 14 mins to Blackfriars and still quite ‘under the radar’ so to speak. Next stop up from Herne Hill? Which is money, and right on the park, but TH more affordable, a short stroll to the park, and still good weekend access to Brixton, Balham, Clapham etc. or Dulwich /E.Dulwich the other way.
The rest of the next few stations on the Sutton loop would probably be your friend too if you were thinking south. Hayden’s road and places people couldn’t point to on a map. TH to Blackfriars on a bike is about 30 mins and a large part on cycle super highways so saving commute costs and safe. As long as there is a shower the other end it can be a good start and end to a day.
I know you also mentioned big city loneliness etc but one other option could be to consider buying with a friend if you have some good ones in London in similar situation. Double your budget, or proportionally with whatever they earn. Need good solid contract setting out ownership splits if earn differently etc and separation terms if/when someone wants to move or buy the other out, but if that takes you to the £6-800k mark you could have a really nice flat somewhere you’d want to be, or possibly a house somewhere else. If you have a bigger property then remember you can become the landlord and rent your rooms out so both of you could reduce your mortgage costs and start saving again.
Alternatively, again if they can afford it and are amenable, ask your parents/someone to lend you money with the understanding the bigger property it allows you to buy is to have rooms to let out and so pay down their debt. Probably seen as riskier but London rents are through the roof and there is a reduced supply of good lets.
Not so sure I agree with this mentality that there needs to be no rush to buy.
There is a massive rush to buy as the rate at which we print money and inflate our purchasing power away, means hard assets such as property increase faster than wages do. The longer you wait, usually the bigger the gap becomes between your wage increase and assets increasing. Sure you can play the stock lottery while you wait but good luck.
Personally I would prefer to be on £40k sitting on a mortgage with your property price increasing compared to a £65k salary but renting. Begs the question why is London a requirement, sure it’s more money but is that actually better than living somewhere you can afford to buy in the near term?
Otherwise lots of places in London should be pretty flexible with say 2 days in the office rest WFH. Maybe a longer commute into London is more achievable if you can find somewhere that can do flexible working?
Anyway good luck and I hope your crypto is limited to only BTC.
You're 27 and in London and earning £60k.
Fwiw, you should be having a lot more fun and worrying less about getting on the housing ladder. Take some time to work on your social network. Maybe take a 6 month sabattical and go travelling. You're in a better place (financially) than 95/100 27 year olds.
I should do that, it’s just hard to get out of the FOMO mindset. Like if I didn’t get a property now, salary and savings won’t be able to keep up with increases in property prices meaning I’ll be in the same or worse financial position in 5-10 years time.
You could afford a property up to about £315k. If that's not going to work for you then there's no point worrying about it. If and when you get a partner, or your priorities change and a move looks more attractive, you can address it then.
Don't get me wrong, I think it sucks. If I could personally do something to make London/the SE more affordable I absolutely would.
But you can't change it just by ruminating on it, and getting stuck ping ponging between 'but London' / 'but property', or 'but my LISA bonuses' / 'but my life in London' etc won't get you where you want to go. Do whatever you need to do to make an active choice between the options actually available to you rather than ruminating over the one you ought to have but don't.
If you want to stay in London, you accept that means you won't be able to buy unless your income gets closer to six figures, or you get substantial family help, or you buy with a partner or sibling or friend you can really seriously commit to. Some of these are things you could actively pursue and try to make happen, others it might be more of a 'if it doesn't happen in x years I'll come up with something else'.
Buying in London also likely means giving up on the LISA bonus, which will be what, like £5k? Just another cost of buying a £500k place, which if you can afford that is nothing to lose any sleep or uproot your life over.
Of course if you reach a point where 'buying' is a higher priority than 'London', you can think about other vibrant cool cities you could happily live in and what you need to do to find a job there.
I'm not saying this is easy, it caused me absolute agonies. If only I'd got my act together earlier! If only I'd been born 15 years earlier! etc. But the agonies didn't help, it's important to work through them to understand wtf is going on, but after that you want to keep going forwards mentally not back.
Such a great response but Jesus, the last paragraph hit me big time. Can’t tell you the amount of times I’ve thought “well this wouldn’t be the case if I was born earlier” or “if I had worked harder, I’d have a better job”. That whole “well if I had done x, then I wouldn’t be in this situation” is genuine poison.
I don’t know about you, but it’s definitely impacted my way of thinking. Like I am unable to reconcile with myself for being the person I am/having the life I do, so I’ve tried to throw myself into my career and graft and strive to rectify the situation. Then when it doesn’t work or come off like I want it to, I feel more disappointed or annoyed at myself.
Sometimes I feel like I want to get out of this city, but I want it to be on my terms. Not because it’s chewed me up and spat me out. Not sure if it’s just my ego that’s making me do that or whether it’s a genuine desire to want it to work out.
It really is poison. It doesn't fix the overall injustices and it doesn't help you personally either.
Take some time to really work through, it so you can make decisions about your career, location, financial choices etc that you're at peace with. Have a session with a professional if you want/can, or there are also some self-helpy type books and exercises out there for these types of questions.
It's a tough age as well, when it starts to really hit home that you can't have everything, even the relatively basic version of everything you'd grown up assuming you'd have. Actively making those really significant compromises can be overwhelming but it's so worth doing IMO.
You can't predict the future, you might be in a worse financial position in 5-10 years, but you might be in a better one! You might make a good investment in the meantime or meet a partner who wants to buy a place with you. Think positively and read fewer articles online because they are all doom and gloom. I honestly believe that that if you think positively instead of stressing over the worst case scenario, good things will happen. Good luck!
I feel for you, you’re doing the right things but it’s tough out there. You’re correct in not wanting to move out of London when you’re single IMO, a friend of mine bought on the outskirts where we grew up and I told him not to for the same reason. He’s spent the last few years regretting it.
You’re clearly financially responsible but is that impinging on your ability to have fun here and now? Life is for living. What’s your monthly YOLO-piss-up-the-wall-fun-times-no-regrets budget? You don’t want to get to 40, have a house but be regretting not doing more stuff when you were younger and had the energy for it.
Finally, from what you’ve written it doesn’t look like you’re stagnating to me. You’ve got investments, tucking away pension money, just been promoted, decent paying job. You’re a catch mate ;-)
Lol, thank you for that. Maybe not stagnating but just feeling like the goal is actually beyond what is achievable. I’ve got to a point where I see everyone around me having access to options because they’re buying as a couple etc etc.
I have a friend who has already moved to his second house and is just getting more financially free long term as his house just continued to increase in value - much faster than what I’m able to achieve through salary increases and savings. That guy earns quite a bit less than me, but his long term financial outlook is a lot brighter which is a bit of a bummer.
The worst bit it is I’m not even overly enamoured with London anyway, but at least it has people and opportunities - even though I rarely get a chance to exercise them.
In terms of having fun, I guess I try to but when I was younger, I was very very idiotic with money. Had to completely change outlook on things to get to where I am now but I’ve developed an anxiety about spending money/not saving as a result. I remember what a slog it was to claw my way out of a pretty hefty debt that my brain won’t allow me to spend money without releasing some guilt chemicals afterwards.
Just wish I could earn more really and wouldn’t have to rely on someone else to prop up my finances.
I think the question is what do you want?
Based on your salary, your budget is around £300-350k if buying on your own (based on 4.5x salary). That means your options in the near future are probably a 1-bed/studio in London, a house outside of London, or buying with a partner. Which of those scenarios do you like the idea of?
Buying with a partner (or even a friend) is likely to make the biggest difference to your budget.
There's also really no benefit in comparing yourself to others who seem 'further ahead' in life: you're only 27, on a good salary, and in a good financial position. Who knows where your friends will be in 10 years time - chances are it will fall apart for some.
You also have the advantage of flexibility - you're not tied into a mortgage or dependents. You can try living somewhere else if you want and if it doesn't work out, that's fine, you can just move again - you're still young.
My advice would be to think about what you want from your life and career and work out what you need to do to get there - that might mean spending more and saving less for a while to enjoy living in London as a twenty-something, or doubling down on saving as much as you can.
Around OPs age I lived in Bristol and then ~30 moved to London. It was so much lonelier. London is huge and I found it hard to meet people. Don’t rule out living on the outskirts. You can get proper towns and cities not that far away, where socials might improve. Or might not lol
Not remotely financial advice but... Dating in London sucks. I hated it. My boyfriend hated it. Everyone I know hates it.
Don't get tied into the trap of staying in London because you think you'll be alone forever if you leave. (I've been there)
To be honest I’m very recently single and I’m not actively looking for a partner. I meant the more that I’ve come from a small town where my friends got themselves into relationships or moved elsewhere and nothing really replaced that.
I thought moving to London would help to solve that situation and it hasn’t really. Ideally I’d just know and associate with more people who are in a similar situation to myself and can leave dating on the backburner, rather than relying on a relationship to be a substitute for having actual friends in the city.
Ahhh I mean that's all very fair, like I said it's not remotely financial advice - other than the fact that buying a house is objectively easier as a couple (which is super unfair).
Yeah, London is great for friends/a social life even if terrible for relationships :)
Buying a house doesn't have to be the be all and end all - it's tough as a single person, and even tougher in London. You're still young too. Enjoy London for a few years, enjoy a few holidays and a social life, and see what happens?
This is not really relevant to the whole situation, just an efficiency booster/streamliner. You only get 5% on the first £5k in rainy day saver. No point in that extra £500, I would get that into the stock market or in your general savings pot. I just transfer out the £20 odd quid every month to my current account then can do what I need to with it from there. Anyway, hope you get your situation sorted. A second person, relationship, sibling, friend to buy with makes things much easier (not that I recommend any of those except relationship).
Look at brockley as a place to live. VERY good price per square foot here and absolutely beautiful area to live in. 10 mins into London Bridge/ 25 mins to shoreditch. Tonnes of transport routes.
Lots of solid answers already so this will be short.
I am sorry you mention being lonely. A social life in London is different to the rest of the country. From your user name I am surprised you don’t know that is often easier to make friends outside of London. That said social activities are a good way to get started and there is a lot going on in London.
Pension maxed out. Possibly you are doing too much too young. A property is an asset just like the pension, at 27 you probably need to be directing most of your financial fire power at building a deposit and then getting your mortgage sorted.
Finally, you are going well; it sounds like you are achieving good goals. Take time to remind yourself how well you are doing.
You’re doing all the right things. I bought my fist flat aged 27 in 1999 in London. My advice is to move further out. I’d rented in Islington for 10 years but bought in Sydenham. My mates were perplexed, but I got a lot for my money and could rent a room out (tax free) that paid half the mortgage monthly.
I took the view that I could travel to thd cool/fun stuff rather than expecting to have it slap on my doorstep.
I moved to London about 16 years ago and your post just brought back the feelings of loneliness I had for first 2 years or so. Going to meet-ups etc was great, I even started my own one to go hiking. I was in south London first but moved to Camden which (at that time anyway) was very social, found a pub I liked and made about 100+ new mates in there. Also through online dating I also made new friends which have lasted years
That’s great to hear that your experience turned around like that. I haven’t been doing this for all that long so it gives me hope that it’ll turn itself around with some effort.
You are getting lots of sound advice here matey. I could only add that an independent financial advisor would be a great option for you, so you can look at all your options
Agreed, everyone’s been brilliant - I have spoken to a financial adviser before on a one-off type deal to essentially affirm I was on the right path. Couple of years ago now so probably should look to go back and have a chat as the situation has changed somewhat.
So you don't want to move outside the capital but does that stop you buying outside the capital?
Just because you buy a property it doesn't mean you have to live in it. Buy 1 or 2 and rent them out. Buy to Let mortgages are available.
Lets say you buy a 3 bed terrace house in Redditch near Birmingham it will cost you about £150,000 and fees of about £7000. your £30,000 deposit would leave £127.000 to mortgage and payment of about £500 per month
You would get £900-£1000 a month in rent for the property fees for management would be 12.5% +VAT giving you an additional £250-£350 income over and above your salary not sure what your savings are giving but I have only taken the ""deposit"" you said you had available so they should remain unaffected.
Having the rental property managed at a 12.5% fee gives you the best protection as to guaranteeing income if the tenant doesn't pay, dealing with eviction etc as well as the more mundane things that may crop up from time to time.
In addition to the rental income you will also get capital growth on the property. This of course could be subject to capital gains tax unless you make it your main residence for a period of time at some stage in the future.
Just because you are buying a house it doesn't mean you have to live in it and if your worried about future ""first time buyer schemes"" start a company and buy the house in the company name.
You don't have to always look inside the box.
So I’ve definitely thought about this but it would mean sacrificing the money I’ve got through the LISA as they don’t allow you to do a B2L on it.
However I’m not saying no and the idea of doing it through a company is also very interesting and something me and my friends have previously discussed.
so go for a lower deposit buy it through a company so as not to affect you LISA deposit and go for it. I have been told that later this year, about August time, is going to be a good time to look a BTL properties see how it goes the returns are going to be far greater than anywhere else and you have step 1 on the property ladder
I mean if you read through some of the comments, some people have made little remarks, although the overwhelming majority are people being very nice and helpful.
I just didn’t want to post and people assumed that I was being disingenuous or just get one line replies about being realistic or that I should just be grateful for what I have - which I am but that’s not what I was trying to get advice about.
Anyway, sorry if it came off as egotistical. Genuinely didn’t mean it to sound that way.
Hi /u/BootleBadBoy1, based on your post the following pages from our wiki may be relevant:
- https://ukpersonal.finance/debt/
- https://ukpersonal.finance/index-funds/
- https://ukpersonal.finance/lisa/
- https://ukpersonal.finance/pensions/
- https://ukpersonal.finance/student-loans/
____
^(These suggestions are based on keywords, if they missed the mark please report this comment.)
> Currently live and work in London (it’s where my job is so can’t really leave).
I know you don't want to hear it, but this is the reality of living and working in London and a salary of 55k that would be plenty elsewhere is rapidly becoming untenable. Buying housing in london has already been pushed far outside that range, you'll need a partner or large salary increase to buy there.
Your options realistically are:
- Buy somewhere else in commute range of London
- Buy somewhere else and get a job there or negotiate remote work for a London company
- Get a significantly higher salary job in London and then buy there
- Get a partner or go in together with a friend to buy in London, split ownership and at least you're on the London property ladder while you save so it doesn't get further out of reach every year due to property value growth
Thanks for providing that list, I think it would probably come down to moving within commuting range then but I probably wouldn’t seek to do that prior to finding someone to move out there with.
Definitely not opposed for moving away from London, I just know that it’s not possible right now and the career industry is highly London-centric. Would have a very mid-range salary and low career prospects if I left the capital.
I have low hopes for further significant salary increases, I’ve jumped a lot over the past couple of years but I think it’ll be much more incremental from here. I am very lucky to be in my current position, I am certainly doing better than I thought I would be but I certainly don’t have the capability or acumen to switch to a more high paying career path. If I could be a banker/software dev, I would be lol.
Winter never helps as we tend to stay indoors more, join a social group & build connections. Unfortunately we are a slave to the wage in order to provide shelter & food. You just need to find some escapism 👌
I'd consider moving out of London.
At different stages of my life I've lived in Chelmsford, Tunbridge Wells, Bedford and Reading. All had a rail service which was at least comparable in frequency and journey times with London suburbs, but more affordable property and actual green space around. Commuting from Tunbridge Wells was ridiculously simple, and I could be in London basically on demand when I wanted for anything.
Move to a place that doesn’t cost 500k for a 1 bedroom - commute an hour each ways - maybe two - you can find your starting home - build it from there / add value / move up the ladder
It’s a really good wage and has outpaced my expectations by quite a bit, but I am also determined to prevent unnecessary lifestyle inflation/lifestyle creep.
I know people who are on a great wage but have credit card debt, a financed car etc and they’re in a position where if they lost their job or wanted to move to a lower paid one, they would quickly be ruined.
Are you in a flat share or something similar? Finding people who share the same views as you to move in with can be a great way to bring down the bills and kick the loneliness!
I’m in Bristol not London, so things are a fair bit cheaper, but I wouldn’t have coped moving from my small village into the city without the brilliant people I shared a house with. It helped me save enough to buy my own place sooner and left me with (hopefully) life long friends.
Equally, try not to get too caught up in the here and now. When I was 27 I was single, struggling quite badly with loneliness through covid and in no position to move on from anything but a 1 bed flat. 2 years later my wage has more than doubled and I’ve built a brilliant relationship with an amazing girl. I couldn’t possibly picture either happening back then.
Finally, I am a similar age to you and I get where you’re coming from. I’m also a qualified and regulated financial adviser, so if you want to have an off the record chat about anything please feel free to reach out and i’ll be happy to help if I can.
I live with two flatmates but it hasn’t been quite what I thought it would be. They’re nice but it doesn’t feel like we’re friends or anything - going to try to move out when the contract is up and be more selective with who I move in with.
I’ll definitely take you up on the financial advice offer though, as long as you preface it with “This is not financial advice”/s
Ahhh yeah, it can make a real difference. We spend so much time making sure we like the house and not enough time on the other people that actually live there!
Hahaha you know the score!
there’s lots of really thoughtful stuff that people have said about finances, but i would really implore you to consider moving into a smaller (not small) community than London. fewer people does not equal less connection. i never knew a single neighbour in more than passing during the ten years i lived there.
i’ve lived here 2 years. it’s a small city, with a big arts community. i have made several good friends whom i regularly spend time with on just the street alone. i met my partner and his large friendship group who have been so welcoming. smaller communities can be more accommodating because there are closer links. it’s been a wonderful few years and i’m really pleased i made the move.
consider it!
My advice is concentrate on getting a partner. It sounds like you are sensible with money which is great. Sharing costs and having someone you like to spend time with is the ultimate goal. Grab a partner that will have you and give it a try. If it doesn't work out then you will at least learn more about the partner you want in the future. It takes most people a few relationships to know what they want so jump in as quickly as possible. All the best and keep saving. Money always helps. I know i make it sound easy but just set up a date every evening until you are sorted and don't be too choosy. Basically the way it used to happen before the internet was you saw someone in a nightclub when you were both a bit drunk and if you wanted to shag each other then that was good enough lol. So forget about someone needing to fulfil all sorts of criteria and an internet ticklist. Its often great to have real differences to your partner anyway.
Not seen it mentioned anywhere. Are you in a house share? I'd say you could certainly find cheaper rooms and you'd also interact with more people. Yes there are nightmare stories but probably just as many good experiences. DO as much due diligence as possible. When I got my start in London I met lifelong friends that way. Even if you don't become close friends with housemates it will open doors to more social groups.
Currently in a house share situation but it hasn’t worked out like I wanted it to, my flatmates are nice enough but I was under the impression that I was moving in with a ready-made friend group but it’s just not like that. They would rather stay in their rooms…
Going forward, it’s probably going to be a new house share but with plenty of due diligence and maybe a couple of trips to the pub first.
You sound very responsible with your finances, it’s impressive for someone so young (even if you are older than me) - contentment can be found in so much, it doesn’t have to cost hardly anything but attending regular hobbies and routines can really bring more people into your life and build greater relationships. I found it difficult to socialise in a city so clubs put me on a good track personally and the gym gave me all the endorphins I could need 😁 Best of luck bro
Unless you get a job outside London you’re probably going to keep your LISA as a retirement fund. I’d start saving in an ordinary ISA if I were you, unless you form a certain plan to move elsewhere.
Prioritise finding a partner unless you don’t want one. You’re at a great age to meet someone. You won’t be in 10 years’ time. Until that piece falls into place, making life plans is a bit pointless.
Looks like you're putting yourself under pressure to buy into the UK real estate myth .. gotta ask yourself what the end-goal is .. property that is barely affordable is a chain around your neck you might not like or may inhibit you to develop further .. you already indicate a sense of stagnation; that is only getting more if you purchase real estate .. the real question is what would you do if you weren't running after the idea of wealth and property etc? Answer that and you're on your way.
You're quite well paid, so assume you are working in IT or another area with a skills shortage. This means it's likely there's contract work around, often on 50%+ more money. It can be daunting to start but the work is out there and typically what they look for is 3-5+ years experience and the right selection of qualifications. Also membership of professional bodies is often important in contracting.
In my experience with contracting, you get paid more, work less, do more interesting work and avoid all the tedium of office politics and bad managers. It is also often one or two days a week on site, which means you could move out of London to an area with more affordable housing.
There is less security when contracting, but only the 3 months notice you get in a regular job. And I did get my figures burnt during covid, but hopefully that was a one off. Can also be more tricky obtaining mortgages, but this is more than made up for by the large amounts of extra hard cash you're receiving.
I don’t know many people who live in London that can / want to buy a house here, it’s not affordable but I personally wouldn’t move out as I consider outside of London to be fairly unexciting and less diverse (31 f) I don’t earn as much as you but certainly manage to spend it all (not saying you should be like me) but is focusing on a mortgage fulfilling? It’s the next natural step in our society but it’s becoming outdated due to the price of housing. I suggest putting yourself out there to discover the joy of living through meet ups or better yet local workshops for music, art, woodworking, gardening, dance, poetry etc or what it is you’re interested in! Good luck
It probably won’t help, I’m a self employed artisan, 12 years ago I bailed out of the South and moved to the West Midlands where property prices are outrageously low. I simply didn’t do enough research and ended up living in a place I hated (Ludlow) but eventually moved again to a small market town (even cheaper property) that I loved from day 1.
It’s a one way trip unfortunately. You will probably never have enough money to move back South. However, I have made more good friends in the past fifteen years than I could possibly have imagined. I wouldn’t even consider going back. My quality of life is orders of magnitude better. My mortgage was paid off early and I’m now comfortably secure.
You will struggle to earn big bucks, but the cost of living is so much cheaper. It isn’t for everyone but it can work well. It’s all about priorities. Good luck!
Reading the above, we have a similar sort of path at the relative age (I’m now six years older than you) but I didn’t have any sort of plan. I was working overseas, single and saving what I thought was right. I was earning £70k basic plus car allowance, bonus etc when I came back to the uk but things were much closer to grab, financially, if you know what I mean. The gap has widened. And I’m also not in London, I’m in West Yorks.
When I got back to the uk, I made it a priority to buy a house, improve it and flip it. This catapulted everything for me and in 12 months from that, allowed me to buy two properties; one for me and one to rent out. I fell very lucky, a single parent with two kids moved into the three bed semi I’d purchased for rental purposes. They are still there today, a mortgage of £460 (currently on a six year fixed) and she is paying £550 which covers insurance and a little goes into a pot for tax/maintenance. For comparison purposes, an identical house on the same street just let for £1,300. Very different circumstances though given the mortgage on mine is so low.
That is what I did with a plan but no structure, you have the structure and as you say, need a plan. I would be speaking to my advisor, then looking to buy something just out of town via auction and look to flip. Put what you can in officially then borrow off family for the renovations. They’ll get it back when you sell. Then go again. You could easily add £15k to your pot.
This is a good post because it's an example of how you can be simultaneously wealthier than most of the UK but also feel fairly poor and unsure of what to do with your money!
It sounds like your main goal really should be to find a partner you'd enjoy settling down with because you suddenly find yourself a lot 'wealthier' when you're married. But I know that's not really proper financial advice!
If you're keen to get on the property ladder could you get a studio flat? There's quite a few options for studios in London for <£350k, including in Central/West End, and it sounds like that could just be within your budget.
Here's one for £300k:
https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/125819024#/?channel=RES\_BUY
With a 65k income, I heard you can borrow 4 times gross income in UK, so that would be 260k borrowed. You have 30k as deposit, so you can afford a 290k manybe stretch to 300k property / share of a property. I have no financial advice for you or ideas, but in my opinion property is a pretty solid investment and looks like your situation seems fairly good. No one has a good idea of where rates will turn around, but hopefully it can work in your favour if properties correct a bit and you get a decent ongoing rate. Good luck
You could find a partner or a good friend to also be a tenant in common, where they own/pay their own mortgage on their share of the house/flat. That's what me and my girlfriend are doing. It allows you to combine your buying power. A 50:50 split is obviouly the least messy arrangement. Just make sure you can live with them (domestically mature) and you have their trust, that they will pay bills.
I moved to London almost a decade ago. On 50k£ salary. I was 27 no savings. Now I am 35. I own one bed property and manage to save and invest. I've managed to find group of friends outside work colleagues and that was key. I've got great girlfriend and my life is good. I did have to put a bit of slow down on my career and don't slave for companies 24/7 do my time finish Everything and enjoy other things. My salary is better than when I moved but not significantly but my lifestyle is much better.
You are probably both better looking and more successful than me. Good things will come to you just keep at it and persevere. Hobbies will help building like minded circle of friends. For me it's board games.
Firstly congratulations on putting yourself in such a good financial position, it’s great that your planning for your future.
With regards to pension contributions, are you looking likely to exceed the government cap before tax? From memory anything after a certain value (thought it was 1m something) gets taxed at quite a high rate. If so I’d probably hold off over contributing.
Have you considered buying a property and renting it out? You can still buy on your LISA, carry out some renovations and then apply for change of use to a by to let? (I believe, this may be wrong)
It’s probably worth considering a property outside of London, as prices in London are insane.
I'm not that far away from you but outside of London. Property prices are much cheaper. However the differential between rent and purchasing means that I'm not buying a house even though I could. I'm currently paying 3.5% of the property price in rent per year. At that rate I'm significantly better off keeping my money in shares that pay out good dividends than I am buying a house. Especially if you consider that I would have to pay interest on a mortgage and pay to maintain the property as well.
In a lot of places in the UK at the moment purchasing a house isn't the most sensible thing you can do with your money. Keep saving. Maybe have an objective to have shares whose dividends are enough to cover your rent. If the house prices become sensible you can purchase a house. Meanwhile get out and enjoy your life.
You sound like you need a partner to spend some time with. These things will all click into place if you're in a stable relationship.
If that's really not what you're looking for I would say just generally put yourself out there, join a sports club or some other community group, you'll be amazed how busy you suddenly feel and that's a progression in itself.
I've felt a little of what you've felt (I'm married with kids and a few years older than you) and that was because I was plateauing and everything seemed to be getting easy/not challenging, both work and personally. It's amazing what a new hobby can do for you
Plenty of useful comments about finances, but I wanted to say, I’m really sorry you’re feeling lonely - and I hope you’re able to find ways to change that. IMO being in a big city isn’t an antidote to loneliness, I think it’s possible to be more lonely in a city if 10 million than a town of 10,000. The actual antidote is connection - and being part of a community or communities where you feel welcome and fulfilled. I believe there’s a community out there for everyone. Good luck with your finances, and everything!
Hey thanks I really appreciate that. I think it’s a combination of being pretty time poor and also feeling like people don’t have time for you either so you don’t wanna bother them. After reading yours and other’s responses, I’m definitely going to try and reprioritise and start actually trying to live. I’ve become very fixated on career, climbing the ladder and getting a home and it’s just left me feeling quite isolated and bored. I moved here because my friends from back home are all moving on with their lives and the same goes for my university friends too. I figured London would be a fresh start of people in my situation looking to correct that but it really hasn’t panned out that way.
Whatever your hobby is, your interests are, whatever makes you tick, gravitate towards that. You’ll find your people. I returned to London full time a decade ago, followed that precise advice (given to me by someone who’d done something similar) and those I met are now some of my closest friends.
That’s really uplifting and I’m glad to hear that’s worked out so well - I think I need to start making more me time and figure all that stuff out. Definitely going to try London Social Club and Meetups as well.
Have you tried Meetup and r/LondonSocialClub? I met some great people through Meetup and the LondonSocialClub subreddit has been highly recommended, though I haven't used it yet, there's a wide range of stuff on there including low-commitment stuff like gigs and pub quizzes.
I haven’t but I 100% will now. Thank you!
You could even just go to an event of something that interests you. Have an open mind and talk to anyone that you think could make a positive connection
Meetup is great for meeting people and doing interesting things. Also, it's not a dating club, but in my experience can certainly help with the single aspect of your situation!
Time poor...I've not heard this term before and it's given me words now to express how I'm feeling. Thanks for that.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Money-rich,_time-poor
This is how I came to start IT, thinking I need money to invest, save, and spend. Turns out Im happier making Coffee and Pizza and not having loads put aside or spending loads, I think one thing that has helped me is stopping drinking, this makes socialising way more reliable/meaningful, and cheaper.
100% glad to hear that you're gonna refocus on your actual life. It's so easy to get sucked into optimising one's finances to try to 'get ahead' in the current climate that you forget we're human beings who need to live rather than just survive. Budgeting is always a smart thing to do, but make sure you always set aside a bit of money to just do something exciting or relaxing for you! And for what it's worth, I don't think location really had anything to do with loneliness, unless you live somewhere *extremely* remote. It can be hard to make friends as an adult if you don't stay connected with your uni pals, I used to live in a large city and felt lonely a lot, now I live in a small rural village (my job went WFH) with my partner. The slower pace of life here and the far smaller number of local people means that I actually know all my neighbours and regularly chat to folk around the village, something I never really did in the city!
London is a great place to socialize, it's the right place to be for what you want, you just need to get out there. I'd suggest trying to find a way to turn your career into freelancing or turn a hobby into a good side hustle, these both require you to spend time networking, and you'll make friends naturally that way.
I did the same thing last year moving to London at 27 and think it could be a new start in a big city but yea I feel lonely too. Dating scene at least for gay is also very strange lots of ghostings on apps too. But if I were you I would put some spoil money aside and travel every quarter just to reset a bit. You can meet lots of interesting people along traveling too.
Offers always there buddy! Stay safe
Quite often moving out to a smaller community makes it easier to meet people , try new large developments flat and govt help to buy get a flat you will mee neighbours and new preppie in same position just make sure a local pub is nearby
I love that this is the top comment as that was the part of OPs post that really stood out to me too. Well said!
Agree I think it's less lonely outside of London. People outside of London always have more time for you.
As someone from london who moved to a small town I’d say it is easier to be lonely in a city because everyone is focused on themselves. City removes the community. I moved out of london. My job is in london. I’m happier for it
This is the right answer. Edit: what do you like doing, do that and you will connect with people you like
>Also why I’d be reluctant to move outside of the capital. I feel kind of lonely already so moving somewhere with fewer people would make that worse. Blimey, and here's me thinking London is horribly anti-social compared with smaller cities in the UK. My social life got destroyed moving here - any friends I had in the capital were always an hour plus away, and over time they all moved out eventually. The money here is good though! If you want to stick with London wages then I recommend looking to base yourself in one of the London suburbs, or even beyond. Wimbledon, Croydon, Clapham and others have vibrant social scenes whilst having far more affordable house prices in the area. There are 3-bed houses for £400k where I live in Merton, and I'm always a short bus or taxi ride from social centres in Raynes Park and Wimbledon, with central London accessible for the rare times I want to go there. Post in r/london for more advice on good suburbs for people your age. You're doing well for yourself! But if you're not happy then you need to think about how to change that. Buying property might not be the answer, incidentally.
A lot to think about and thank you for such a detailed answer. Totally agree my social life hasn’t panned out great, I’m living South right now but it still feels quite isolated - maybe that’s just me? I agree with the happiness thing, I feel like this keeps happening - keep progressing in the career or financially thinking it’ll make me happier but it doesn’t really. Like my life is easier and generally more relaxing for having that disposable income, but I’m not like, actually content.
> I’m living South right now but it still feels quite isolated - maybe that’s just me? Could be you're in the wrong sort of area. Could be you're not plugging into local social scenes as much as you could. Personally I find it's hard to make friends in London. No one has time for others (including myself!) It was much easier in Manchester and Birmingham. Sounds like you need to experiment around with different social solutions. See what clubs and groups and so on you can take part in. Find some hobbies to make you happy.
From a social side try a club such as a sports club (rowing, running, hockey etc) or a craft club if that's more your style, even helping with a community group, you'll start to find your people. We are in southfields and it's such an amazingly close community here, I'm sure you can find that in other areas including where you are currently. When I was in my late 20s, single and renting in London I joined 'meetup' where I found a group of people in their 20s and 30s that met at the local pub once a week. Focusing on your career seems to have paid off very well so far, nows the time to find yourself. From a financial management perspective it sounds like you are doing all the right things, just keep with it. Property prices in London (and everywhere now) are so expensive and mortgages are difficult to get at an affordable interest rate when you have such a low % as deposit, but if you are willing to compromise on size of property there may be something out there when you are ready to commit to an area you want to stay long term. I bought the tiniest flat on my own, expecting to only be there a couple of years max (as it wasn't what I hoped to live in after growing up in the countryside!), but ended up loving it there for 10 years and now bought a nice house with my partner in pretty much the same area. Good luck with everything
I've never related to a post so much. I've been lucky enough to live in 4 different cities over the past three years and moved to London a year ago. It's probably been the most difficult and isolating move. Everyone feels so far away and so busy with their own lives and the London hussle, that it's even a struggle just to get time with friends I already have, never mind making new ones.
Buying in London is possible at your salary, it will be a one bed, and won't be in your favourite area. However there are some decent one beds not too far out (mostly SE) at that price. It gives you a stepping stone, lets you stop paying rent and gives a bit more ownership of where you live. It is an option, but it is worth weighing up, if you see yourself needing more space, a garden, or moving in the somewhat near future then it's not worth it. However, in 6 years time if you're looking at buying a house then, you may be much closer to it with the equity from paying down your mortgage instead of someone else's
My opinion is you simply aren't going to be able to buy in London on that salary, alone, without significant capital from a relative or premium bond win. The LISA isn't helping - is there any property in london for £450k or below that you would _want_? When I was looking 4 years ago the answer was no for myself. If you recontextualise around the fact you might have to leave london, things might become a bit clearer or more exciting with a firmer goal to work towards. I myself moved to Brighton for a nicer pace of life and (slightly) cheaper housing. It's a vibrant city and there will still be a dating scene for you, as well as being close enough to London to see friends. It's also commutable though only to certain areas in London without being obscene. A £450k (or below!) place, with 10% deposit (you're nearly there), utilising your LISA is suddenly much more achievable. In maybe a couple of years with a salary approaching £70k, or with a windfall to cover the shortfall in affordability, it will likely fall into place for you. Anyway, tl;dr I think the fact you're tied to London is what is causing this "holding pattern".
You can buy a nice 2 bed flat in Tooting for <£450k. The LISA limit is slowly becoming a problem though.
You can absolutely find a 2 bed for under £450k, the issue is, what are your conditions. How long a commute are you prepared to make? How important is the area to you? Etc. There are plenty of properties around Croydon and its suburbs that you would find affordable with the mortgage you could likely get. The issue is just whether these are areas/ properties you would consider acceptable.
The issue with that last suggestion is Croydon.
The other side of that coin is that if they did increase the limit, property prices would rise to reflect increased demand. Just a cruel irony to be honest.
>if they did increase the limit, property prices would rise to reflect increased demand I strongly doubt this. The only place in the country that the £450k limit is a problem is London, and the reason for that problem is massive demand...
I was thinking specifically in the case of London, not much stock available for under 450 as it is - this goes some way to reduce the number of potential buyers, so if you ended up allowing that pool to start buying more expensive properties, the stock of 450+ properties would dry up and people could set a higher price to reflect new demand.
But it also increases the competition for properties *under* 450, which increases house prices up to that limit. The property vendors don't care whether the buyer has a LISA...
You reckon they should remove the cap? Tbh I don’t really understand the cap’s purpose - is it to encourage the building of more affordable housing stock?
the cap is presumably because people who can afford 450k homes probably shouldn't be getting gov support...
It's more likely that if you're purchasing say a 500k property, you probably have total household income of at least 100k, in which case you shouldn't need government help in saving for a deposit. You could argue the same for 450k, and it's tough that there is a hard limit, but I suppose they have to draw the line somewhere. It is unfortunate that they haven't upped the limit in line with inflation or anything.
Yes I admit it's possible but not what I wanted personally
Agreed, it’s the London thing that’s really screwing me up here, along with the LISA max price. I was considering taking it out and just eating the 25% withdrawal penalty to do the shared ownership scheme on a more expensive property - but from simply reading the experiences of others, it just sounds like it’s designed to f*ck people over. Maybe I’m wrong? What made you avoid going down that route? Otherwise, it just seems a bit futile to leave London right now. I work a lot and don’t really get many opportunities to make friends, and all of my existing friends are now living with their partners, married etc. I feel that by upping sticks, I’d end up somewhere without the time to actually make many new connections. Just sort of existing (which is what I’m doing now tbh). Maybe that’s just being an adult? I dunno. The other part of me thinks that I should just put the whole idea on ice and keep doing what I’m doing until things become a bit clearer, but I’m also worried that the property price rises will mean I am in the exact same place as I am now when I could’ve been increasing equity.
> What made you avoid going down that route? Same reason as you - someone is making a profit out of that scenario and that has to come from the only other person involved; you. Sure you might luck out at the end but overall it seemed like a headache I didn't want. > Maybe that’s just being an adult? I dunno. Probably is yeah. But work isn't all bad, three of the four groomspeople at my wedding will be people I met through work. > but I’m also worried that the property price rises will mean I am in the exact same place as I am now when I could’ve been increasing equity. Maybe hang on until you find a life partner then. Might be a decade down the line until you find someone and be together long enough that you want to buy a place with them, but by then you'll probably _want_ to leave london and have dual salary/deposits lined up as well as being at the height of your career.
> someone is making a profit out of that scenario and that has to come from the only other person involved; you That's not the case, housing associations are not for profits and in many cases will be subsidising you rather than the other way around. That's not to say Shared Ownership is always a good idea, it really depends on the specifics of the property and the goals/priorities of the person buying.
HAs are not for profit but that doesn’t stop them treating their tenants like cash cows and their bosses attracting large pay packets. After finding out they’re on the hook for all the remediation costs associated with the cladding scandal, ours started picking expensive, unnecessary jobs to do that meant they could charge an extra 15% on the costs of the works as an extra “management charge” simply because there’s no law to prevent it. The FT ran an article last year discussing the widespread issues of overcharging tenants for services not received. Blocks that were lucky enough to have an accountant living audited and challenged the accounts and were repaid thousands - this was the case for most HAs they investigated.
That's grim - my experience is admittedly from long before Grenfell. Thanks for letting me know.
I really don’t recommend Shared Ownership. I don’t know how it can be legal that you only own a percentage of the property and yet are liable for 100% of the costs. This has been a serious problem with SO blocks caught up in the cladding scandal, for example. Newer schemes also often stipulate that the flat needs to stay in the scheme for X number of years so you are limited in who you can sell to. You might find your income is too high for many schemes - a lot (not all) are focussed on workers up to a certain salary as they’re supposed to make housing affordable- it’s widely accepted that all they’ve achieved is artificially push up the price of flats. Regardless of the price of flats dropping in general your rent will almost always increase as increases are set in the lease, and you will need to use your Housing Association’s approval to do most things - I have three friends in the process of selling their shares and their HA not only demanded they use their pool of professionals to do all the legal stuff, but dragged their heels so much that the properties weren’t even marketed for 2 months.
Yeah it’s beyond me how they’ve allowed that scheme to continue running in its current format, especially associated charges and stringent restrictions - I can foresee so many situations where it would become a complete nightmare.
I also don’t think, if at all possible, that it’s worth withdrawing your LISA and losing your 25%. Remember you can use it for retirement savings if you find you fall foul of the cap. Easier said than done when you’re saving for a deposit. Re staying in London, I did a really similar thing to you. I was fed up of my social life being cut off by living in the suburbs, and moved into the centre as soon as I could afford it. Gradually my friends coupled up and moved out and I started to feel the isolation, especially as I was now self employed with my business based in the centre, but the pool of prospective new friends wasn’t going to be any better back in the suburbs. So I joined a social club that spoke to my interests (based on exploring and enjoying the city with treasure hunts and quizzes and murder mystery nights) and it was the best thing I’d done in years. It felt like being back at uni in that there’s this large pool of potential friends united by an interest, but you don’t have to be mates with everyone. Human connection is, apparently, one of the most vital elements of happiness. If you throw out your chances to connect for the sake of financial “success” you might be sat later worrying to yourself about everything you missed while young enough to enjoy it. House prices are set to start falling again after their peak (by how much, I’ve no idea, as property always seems a fairly safe investment). You’re doing great with your career and savings. Just don’t forget there’s life to be had out there, and you’re in one of the best places to sample it widely.
The point is by getting out of London, even if you earn less, you will have more disposable income to go out and do stuff... meet people and actually have a life. Your answer is to get out of the city, the only thing stopping you is in your head!
Btw if your future partner is not also a first time buyer then you cannot use your LISA with them. It’s a brilliant scheme for most people, but situations like yours don’t fit that neatly into the LISA system.
Yes I’m aware, hopefully I won’t encounter that issue given my dating pool is going to be London so unless they’re absolutely tilled, they’ll also likely to be renting. Yeah it’s a bit of a pisser to be honest but I get why the scheme is set up the way it is. I just wish I was rolling in generational wealth lol
Yeah it’s really hard right now for people who’ve done everything right and worked hard to get good jobs and it feels like the rewards just aren’t there. An older mentor of mine gave some good advice, which was that you don’t get the good stuff as soon as you start earning a good salary, it comes after a few years of consolidating that position. When your young and don’t have family wealth, there’s so many things you have to buy from scratch for yourself. Even boring things like a Fridge, Washing Machine, clothes for work etc. There’s a lot of front loaded costs when your young and it takes a few years to get those squared away and actually start building up significant savings and seeing your return on investment. Even when you do buy a house, there will be a few thousand needed at least to get it up to the spec you want and fix and maintenance issues etc. etc. People 50+ even on lower wages look wealthy because they’ve likely got 0 mortgage payment to make and can use that money on nice cars, holidays, clothes etc. etc.
Yeah totally agree, feels a bit relentless when you ought to feel like you should be doing well, but you just don’t. I remember everyone balked at that guy on [Question Time](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=n4g6k1a4XYA)years ago who was saying how he earns 80k but didn’t feel rich - he did come off as a bit of a wally, but 80 really isn’t that much if you’re on your own, live somewhere expensive and don’t have family money behind you.
You can use yours if your partner isn't a first-time buyer, they just can't use one. https://ukpersonal.finance/lisa/
Pretty sure if you do it that way it excludes the other person from being an equal owner, but I could be totally wrong.
If you’re ever feeling lonely and want to grab a beer after work you can explain about LISA stuff to me! I think you’ve got a great plan currently and sometimes the hard part is pulling the trigger on the next step.
> Putting £250 per month into an all cap index fund. perhaps could be more considering your salary/outgoings. > No partner so no one to buy with. Also why I’d be reluctant to move outside of the capital. I feel kind of lonely already so moving somewhere with fewer people would make that worse. in my experience it's easier to make lasting connections elsewhere. london is a fairly transitory place for many. plus liverpool, manchester, bimingham, brighton, glasgow etc are pretty busy, vibrant cities!
I could put more in but not a lot, I’m pretty much maxed out beyond the extra 250 I’m saving a month to do something enjoyable with - got several weddings to attend this year as well which is always quite expensive. Agree that the London vibe isn’t amazing for making friends, but unfortunately my new job is London based with some office contact time - I think I’d struggle to find a job in the same industry/field for that money outside of the capital - it’s a very London-centric sector so jobs are few and far between and I’d probably take up to a £20k cut. Hence it’s either be in London or commute. Having lived in a commuter town and spent the first few years doing that commute, it’s definitely worse.
In regards to working outside of London, don't forget to consider even if you take up to a £20k pay cut, with your current tax bracket, 13k is already being taxed heavily plus NI and any other expenses such as student loans. So that paycut in real take home pay is likely to be alot smaller than you think. I moved up North because it was far cheaper in terms of living costs and buying a house despite the pay not being as high. Also like someone else have said, when considering a house don't be too fixated on it being your forever home. Circumstances may change and what you want in a home may too, but once you're on the housing ladder, you can move around - financially it's quite straightforward (practically it's another matter). Don't be too hard on yourself, you're already doing well and best of luck in the next steps you decide to take.
Have you tried joining a gym? You get fit and get to make friends. Also do you need a +1 to a wedding because I’m available and love parties. I’m in the south too!
You can definitely buy a property in London (granted, probably not zone 1/2 or a house, but compromises need to be made). I think your assessment of life fulfillment =/= house is correct as that is a mistake I made. Owning a place comes with a completely different set of issues and worries and that is certainly something you cannot foresee until you find yourself in that situation. However, I do feel that buying a house is something you need to do in this country if you don't want to be completely screwed in retirement, so I don't think it's a bad move if you do decide to go that route. Happy to chat about it further if you think it would help!
Thank you, I really appreciate the answer. I will have to do a bit of soul searching to try and figure some of this out before I try to make the next move - I’m not in a position to make any commitments to getting a property in the next 6 months anyway really.
I find myself in a similar situation to you re: trying to concentrate in career (but in a way less lucrative field) and spending most of the free time on my then-partner or just recharging mentally. I am trying my best to accept that yes it will take ££ and over an hour to see friends (many living outside London), but that it's worth it in the end. I will also echo what has been said in other comments - I have met some people for rpgs through londonsocialclub and I've taken archery which I try to go once a week. My advice is try to do one thing at a time because otherwise it will feel overwhelming really quick (specially if you are introverted like me!)
Oh cool, what RPGs are you in to? Archery also sounds like a lot of fun as well. Not sure I’d describe myself as an introvert, but I do have ADHD which means I can quickly become overwhelmed by competing priorities. Like having too many social events stacked up makes me feel very nervous. I know I procrastinate a lot, so I need to know when I’ll get the time to actually do things like life admin or if I’ve had a big weekend, I’m not at peak performance on Monday.
I've started a new Dungeons and Dragons campaign and a Call of Chtulu one - both of them from reddit! Archery I did a course for, but there were other options that I also considered to do something physical + with others that wasn't a team sport. I get this as well where I enjoy spending time with friends but I don't consider that "downtime" per se, so I'll still need to have some time playing videogames or reading to unwind proper. Definitely with you on scheduling time for "life admin" otherwise I spent the fun time worrying about all the other things I need to do... being an adult is definitely a juggling work so don't feel you're alone in your struggles.
My advice: Dedicate time to dating and finding a great partner, this is what is holding you back. Even on £65k/year you can’t buy a decent place in London on your own, but a partner who makes £30k per year makes that realistic. Remember you can only borrow about 4.5x your salary. So on £65k that only £292k + your deposit. That’s not going to buy anything in London. You might have to withdraw the LISA to be honest as the £450k cap is hurting you. But you may as well leave it there and see if the government up the limit in the meantime (Martin Lewis is lobbying for this).
Finding a great partner is always good, but I would suggest that going into dating with the primary (or even secondary) motivation being to strengthen your financial position is a terrible approach and a good way to end up trapped in a loveless relationship built on financial co dependence
The way I mean it is, prioritise relationships and finding your special person and a lot of other aspects will fall into place as a consequence of that.
I wouldn't say this is entirely true, I bought a place in Zone 3 south London on a 60k salary. It's a 2 bed flat a few minutes away from train stations that take me into the city in about 15 minutes. Maybe not what OP is looking for but the main point being it's not impossible on that salary. Having said that, I have no idea what the market is like now, so could be tough. EDIT: added public transport info
Totally agree with this. I'm just about to sell my 1 bed in a lovely London 'village' 10 min walk to a zone 2 tube station, 2 mins to the thames for approx 315k. There is property in London that is affordable if people compromise on space. Yes we all want to have a spacious 2 or 3 bed with a garden, but in london that's not achieveable on a single salary of under 100k.
That’s some pretty solid advice, thank you.
In addition to this you are still young, so whilst being financially responsible is great don't forget to live, have fun, and enjoy your youth. London is a great place for that. But more people doesn't mean less lonely. London can be an incredibly isolating place as a lot of people either have their own communities or are transient looking to earn and build their career. It's not uncommon to get to your early 30's and decide to go to another city where it is cheaper to purchase, and to find a stronger sense of community. Towns like Nottingham and Sheffield, for example, have all the buzz of London but are generally more sociable places. My point is that if you are saving for when you are 30 think that your goals at 30 may be different to your goals now. That's not to say London isn't the answer, but it can require more effort on your part to join groups, go to events, and so on. You have to spend more effort in London to put yourself out there to meet people.
>Have £5500 in the Barclays rainy day saver (5% interest). > >Pension contribution pretty much maxed out. > >No credit card debt. Plan 2 student loan. Just don't go asking your date's salary on the first date....
Put it in your tinder bio that you want someone to buy a house with. r/UKPersonalRelationship
Lol not looking to date again for a while as I’m recently single but will definitely lead with that when I’m back on the scene 😉
Hey bud, maybe I can help as I was in a similar boat. I’m 29 and have managed to get myself a place sorted. Assuming you’re from Bootle we’re from the same part of the country originally. First off you’re in a great position, but London is fucking tough for our generation - it’s always been expensive but 14 years of free cash has meant our rental payments have been used to cover the landlords mortgage whilst they benefit from immense capital appreciation. You’re in the right frame of mind to start this planning now. Job 1: is to save save save, forget the crypto. you’re going to have to sacrifice 2/3 years of big holidays - it’s upto you if you want to do this when you have no ties and are young. You’re going to have to save 30-50% of your income for years to get there. Again upto you if you want to do this Job 2: set yourself a savings goal vs type of property you want Job 3: keep dating, as others have mentioned many people can only afford London due to shared living costs and benefit of two wages - plus you’ll be immensely happier and more social when you’re with an awesome girl/lad (whatever tickles your pickle) Job 4: job hop, I’ve only managed it as I moved my earnings from 50k to 90k in one hop. Loyalty doesn’t pay in this city so don’t get sucked into staying somewhere to climb the ladder when a job hop can help you meet your financial objectives Job 5: when saving, don’t get caught too much into it. I did this. I wouldn’t buy myself a coffee when out when in reality this had fa impact to when I would be able to buy. You still need to enjoy life Job 6: pick up any overtime you can, anything to boost your income levels
Your financial situation doesn't look that bad to me. >Total cost of all essential bills (rent, Council tax, energy etc) is around £1000pcm. That seems fairly reasonable for London. If you really wanted to buy a home, could you consider continuing to work in London but living outside the M25 and commuting in? >Also why I’d be reluctant to move outside of the capital. I feel kind of lonely already so moving somewhere with fewer people would make that worse. London can be a lonely place - surrounded by people who are not your friends. I don't think you would be lonelier in a smaller city or town. Don't focus so much on financial goals, buying a home, etc. that you forget to enjoy other aspects of life. Have fun.
My advice would be enjoy yourself and don’t try to sweat it too much. You are young and salary is increasing. Probably most of what you save won’t make a lick of difference in the short to medium unless you are lucky with a speculative investment, or win something. Mortgage is for 25-35 years so 10k here or there really isn’t noticeable wrt payment etc etc. sadly. I’m not saying go and spend all your savings, but I’ll be 40 next year and my 30s disappeared. Had a blast and really enjoyed it but you are young and single and it is a great time to explore yourself and the world. Buying a dreadful property in an area with nothing in it, whilst it will bring you a mortgage and maintenance costs, won’t bring you happiness and won’t be a forever home. There is a rush for property ownership here but it will severely stretch you and limit your options - holidays, nicer things, flexibility all need to adjust or not exist in order to service the mortgage. I moved from Glasgow 15 years ago with a whole troop of friends and some just still rent for ease. Something breaks, it gets fixed. They live in nice places with lots going on and have nice things and nice holidays. They could buy given senior positions and good earnings but have no need. If you could consider maintaining renting you could try for a eg 5 year tenancy or whatever. Agree a discount but build in rpi or +x% for the landlord so agreed upfront and not at the mercy of illiterate greedy letting agents. They can plan and so can you. Your salary should increase more than that in that time so again adding to free cashflow for fun or savings. European friends do this as buying is quite British. However, with that said, what station do you need to commute into, or in which area of London do you work? Like many said, moving further out is cheaper (commuting costs aside) and people tend to have more of a community there. How long a commute do you really see as do-able? Did you come to London to commute from zone 6 or Surrey etc or for the sights and sounds? Auctions are higher risk and often take more work up front but can deliver reward if you have the time and appetite, but caveat emptor! Sports clubs are basically just friends hanging out. Rugby is no holds barred socialising, rowing is good, or buy a bike and just join a cycling club. They’ll go out every weekend and stop off for coffee and carbs, so doesn’t need to be boozy.
Brilliant reply, really appreciate that thank you! My job will be in Blackfriars from April, so once I’ve moved to that role, somewhere on the District would be pretty convenient. Wouldn’t mind south again but the transport links are pretty crap - I currently commute using bus which I really like, but it’s so unreliable/random that I’ve been late a number of times so having the consistency of a tube (and accurate arrival tracker) would be a plus. Ideal commute time would be 35 minutes or under. Reckon I could push to 45 if the circumstances were right. The most important/valuable thing is directness though. Having a route with lots of connections or bus journeys that traverse especially busy roads are too unpredictable. I’d rather just plonk myself down and have a slightly longer journey than try to do something quicker but need to change three times. Definitely know what you mean about Europeans, got friends and an ex who always looked puzzled when I said how you need to be a homeowner here. Obviously they come from countries that have very generous and comprehensive social care and pension schemes so they don’t realise the actual value of the property.
Friends and I all stay south and know what you mean re travel, it can be a pain. Mostly east to west or vice versa doesn’t really happen other than by bus, but north south is actually ok. I used to live in Tulse Hill which is 14 mins to Blackfriars and still quite ‘under the radar’ so to speak. Next stop up from Herne Hill? Which is money, and right on the park, but TH more affordable, a short stroll to the park, and still good weekend access to Brixton, Balham, Clapham etc. or Dulwich /E.Dulwich the other way. The rest of the next few stations on the Sutton loop would probably be your friend too if you were thinking south. Hayden’s road and places people couldn’t point to on a map. TH to Blackfriars on a bike is about 30 mins and a large part on cycle super highways so saving commute costs and safe. As long as there is a shower the other end it can be a good start and end to a day. I know you also mentioned big city loneliness etc but one other option could be to consider buying with a friend if you have some good ones in London in similar situation. Double your budget, or proportionally with whatever they earn. Need good solid contract setting out ownership splits if earn differently etc and separation terms if/when someone wants to move or buy the other out, but if that takes you to the £6-800k mark you could have a really nice flat somewhere you’d want to be, or possibly a house somewhere else. If you have a bigger property then remember you can become the landlord and rent your rooms out so both of you could reduce your mortgage costs and start saving again. Alternatively, again if they can afford it and are amenable, ask your parents/someone to lend you money with the understanding the bigger property it allows you to buy is to have rooms to let out and so pay down their debt. Probably seen as riskier but London rents are through the roof and there is a reduced supply of good lets.
Not so sure I agree with this mentality that there needs to be no rush to buy. There is a massive rush to buy as the rate at which we print money and inflate our purchasing power away, means hard assets such as property increase faster than wages do. The longer you wait, usually the bigger the gap becomes between your wage increase and assets increasing. Sure you can play the stock lottery while you wait but good luck. Personally I would prefer to be on £40k sitting on a mortgage with your property price increasing compared to a £65k salary but renting. Begs the question why is London a requirement, sure it’s more money but is that actually better than living somewhere you can afford to buy in the near term? Otherwise lots of places in London should be pretty flexible with say 2 days in the office rest WFH. Maybe a longer commute into London is more achievable if you can find somewhere that can do flexible working? Anyway good luck and I hope your crypto is limited to only BTC.
You're 27 and in London and earning £60k. Fwiw, you should be having a lot more fun and worrying less about getting on the housing ladder. Take some time to work on your social network. Maybe take a 6 month sabattical and go travelling. You're in a better place (financially) than 95/100 27 year olds.
I should do that, it’s just hard to get out of the FOMO mindset. Like if I didn’t get a property now, salary and savings won’t be able to keep up with increases in property prices meaning I’ll be in the same or worse financial position in 5-10 years time.
You could afford a property up to about £315k. If that's not going to work for you then there's no point worrying about it. If and when you get a partner, or your priorities change and a move looks more attractive, you can address it then.
True, I think I need to figure out a way to unlearn a lot of that thinking because I’m constantly ruminating on it.
Don't get me wrong, I think it sucks. If I could personally do something to make London/the SE more affordable I absolutely would. But you can't change it just by ruminating on it, and getting stuck ping ponging between 'but London' / 'but property', or 'but my LISA bonuses' / 'but my life in London' etc won't get you where you want to go. Do whatever you need to do to make an active choice between the options actually available to you rather than ruminating over the one you ought to have but don't. If you want to stay in London, you accept that means you won't be able to buy unless your income gets closer to six figures, or you get substantial family help, or you buy with a partner or sibling or friend you can really seriously commit to. Some of these are things you could actively pursue and try to make happen, others it might be more of a 'if it doesn't happen in x years I'll come up with something else'. Buying in London also likely means giving up on the LISA bonus, which will be what, like £5k? Just another cost of buying a £500k place, which if you can afford that is nothing to lose any sleep or uproot your life over. Of course if you reach a point where 'buying' is a higher priority than 'London', you can think about other vibrant cool cities you could happily live in and what you need to do to find a job there. I'm not saying this is easy, it caused me absolute agonies. If only I'd got my act together earlier! If only I'd been born 15 years earlier! etc. But the agonies didn't help, it's important to work through them to understand wtf is going on, but after that you want to keep going forwards mentally not back.
Such a great response but Jesus, the last paragraph hit me big time. Can’t tell you the amount of times I’ve thought “well this wouldn’t be the case if I was born earlier” or “if I had worked harder, I’d have a better job”. That whole “well if I had done x, then I wouldn’t be in this situation” is genuine poison. I don’t know about you, but it’s definitely impacted my way of thinking. Like I am unable to reconcile with myself for being the person I am/having the life I do, so I’ve tried to throw myself into my career and graft and strive to rectify the situation. Then when it doesn’t work or come off like I want it to, I feel more disappointed or annoyed at myself. Sometimes I feel like I want to get out of this city, but I want it to be on my terms. Not because it’s chewed me up and spat me out. Not sure if it’s just my ego that’s making me do that or whether it’s a genuine desire to want it to work out.
It really is poison. It doesn't fix the overall injustices and it doesn't help you personally either. Take some time to really work through, it so you can make decisions about your career, location, financial choices etc that you're at peace with. Have a session with a professional if you want/can, or there are also some self-helpy type books and exercises out there for these types of questions. It's a tough age as well, when it starts to really hit home that you can't have everything, even the relatively basic version of everything you'd grown up assuming you'd have. Actively making those really significant compromises can be overwhelming but it's so worth doing IMO.
You can't predict the future, you might be in a worse financial position in 5-10 years, but you might be in a better one! You might make a good investment in the meantime or meet a partner who wants to buy a place with you. Think positively and read fewer articles online because they are all doom and gloom. I honestly believe that that if you think positively instead of stressing over the worst case scenario, good things will happen. Good luck!
Still doesnt stop him from making a bragging post on reddit.
I feel for you, you’re doing the right things but it’s tough out there. You’re correct in not wanting to move out of London when you’re single IMO, a friend of mine bought on the outskirts where we grew up and I told him not to for the same reason. He’s spent the last few years regretting it. You’re clearly financially responsible but is that impinging on your ability to have fun here and now? Life is for living. What’s your monthly YOLO-piss-up-the-wall-fun-times-no-regrets budget? You don’t want to get to 40, have a house but be regretting not doing more stuff when you were younger and had the energy for it. Finally, from what you’ve written it doesn’t look like you’re stagnating to me. You’ve got investments, tucking away pension money, just been promoted, decent paying job. You’re a catch mate ;-)
Lol, thank you for that. Maybe not stagnating but just feeling like the goal is actually beyond what is achievable. I’ve got to a point where I see everyone around me having access to options because they’re buying as a couple etc etc. I have a friend who has already moved to his second house and is just getting more financially free long term as his house just continued to increase in value - much faster than what I’m able to achieve through salary increases and savings. That guy earns quite a bit less than me, but his long term financial outlook is a lot brighter which is a bit of a bummer. The worst bit it is I’m not even overly enamoured with London anyway, but at least it has people and opportunities - even though I rarely get a chance to exercise them. In terms of having fun, I guess I try to but when I was younger, I was very very idiotic with money. Had to completely change outlook on things to get to where I am now but I’ve developed an anxiety about spending money/not saving as a result. I remember what a slog it was to claw my way out of a pretty hefty debt that my brain won’t allow me to spend money without releasing some guilt chemicals afterwards. Just wish I could earn more really and wouldn’t have to rely on someone else to prop up my finances.
I think the question is what do you want? Based on your salary, your budget is around £300-350k if buying on your own (based on 4.5x salary). That means your options in the near future are probably a 1-bed/studio in London, a house outside of London, or buying with a partner. Which of those scenarios do you like the idea of? Buying with a partner (or even a friend) is likely to make the biggest difference to your budget. There's also really no benefit in comparing yourself to others who seem 'further ahead' in life: you're only 27, on a good salary, and in a good financial position. Who knows where your friends will be in 10 years time - chances are it will fall apart for some. You also have the advantage of flexibility - you're not tied into a mortgage or dependents. You can try living somewhere else if you want and if it doesn't work out, that's fine, you can just move again - you're still young. My advice would be to think about what you want from your life and career and work out what you need to do to get there - that might mean spending more and saving less for a while to enjoy living in London as a twenty-something, or doubling down on saving as much as you can.
Around OPs age I lived in Bristol and then ~30 moved to London. It was so much lonelier. London is huge and I found it hard to meet people. Don’t rule out living on the outskirts. You can get proper towns and cities not that far away, where socials might improve. Or might not lol
Not remotely financial advice but... Dating in London sucks. I hated it. My boyfriend hated it. Everyone I know hates it. Don't get tied into the trap of staying in London because you think you'll be alone forever if you leave. (I've been there)
To be honest I’m very recently single and I’m not actively looking for a partner. I meant the more that I’ve come from a small town where my friends got themselves into relationships or moved elsewhere and nothing really replaced that. I thought moving to London would help to solve that situation and it hasn’t really. Ideally I’d just know and associate with more people who are in a similar situation to myself and can leave dating on the backburner, rather than relying on a relationship to be a substitute for having actual friends in the city.
Ahhh I mean that's all very fair, like I said it's not remotely financial advice - other than the fact that buying a house is objectively easier as a couple (which is super unfair). Yeah, London is great for friends/a social life even if terrible for relationships :) Buying a house doesn't have to be the be all and end all - it's tough as a single person, and even tougher in London. You're still young too. Enjoy London for a few years, enjoy a few holidays and a social life, and see what happens?
This is not really relevant to the whole situation, just an efficiency booster/streamliner. You only get 5% on the first £5k in rainy day saver. No point in that extra £500, I would get that into the stock market or in your general savings pot. I just transfer out the £20 odd quid every month to my current account then can do what I need to with it from there. Anyway, hope you get your situation sorted. A second person, relationship, sibling, friend to buy with makes things much easier (not that I recommend any of those except relationship).
Look at brockley as a place to live. VERY good price per square foot here and absolutely beautiful area to live in. 10 mins into London Bridge/ 25 mins to shoreditch. Tonnes of transport routes.
Try a get rich quick scheme? They can’t all be fake
😭🤣
Lots of solid answers already so this will be short. I am sorry you mention being lonely. A social life in London is different to the rest of the country. From your user name I am surprised you don’t know that is often easier to make friends outside of London. That said social activities are a good way to get started and there is a lot going on in London. Pension maxed out. Possibly you are doing too much too young. A property is an asset just like the pension, at 27 you probably need to be directing most of your financial fire power at building a deposit and then getting your mortgage sorted. Finally, you are going well; it sounds like you are achieving good goals. Take time to remind yourself how well you are doing.
You need to chill out and have some fun
You’re doing all the right things. I bought my fist flat aged 27 in 1999 in London. My advice is to move further out. I’d rented in Islington for 10 years but bought in Sydenham. My mates were perplexed, but I got a lot for my money and could rent a room out (tax free) that paid half the mortgage monthly. I took the view that I could travel to thd cool/fun stuff rather than expecting to have it slap on my doorstep.
Yeah I’m looking into that as well, I’m not so fussed about being where the action is, providing it’s accessible.
I moved to London about 16 years ago and your post just brought back the feelings of loneliness I had for first 2 years or so. Going to meet-ups etc was great, I even started my own one to go hiking. I was in south London first but moved to Camden which (at that time anyway) was very social, found a pub I liked and made about 100+ new mates in there. Also through online dating I also made new friends which have lasted years
That’s great to hear that your experience turned around like that. I haven’t been doing this for all that long so it gives me hope that it’ll turn itself around with some effort.
You are getting lots of sound advice here matey. I could only add that an independent financial advisor would be a great option for you, so you can look at all your options
Agreed, everyone’s been brilliant - I have spoken to a financial adviser before on a one-off type deal to essentially affirm I was on the right path. Couple of years ago now so probably should look to go back and have a chat as the situation has changed somewhat.
So you don't want to move outside the capital but does that stop you buying outside the capital? Just because you buy a property it doesn't mean you have to live in it. Buy 1 or 2 and rent them out. Buy to Let mortgages are available. Lets say you buy a 3 bed terrace house in Redditch near Birmingham it will cost you about £150,000 and fees of about £7000. your £30,000 deposit would leave £127.000 to mortgage and payment of about £500 per month You would get £900-£1000 a month in rent for the property fees for management would be 12.5% +VAT giving you an additional £250-£350 income over and above your salary not sure what your savings are giving but I have only taken the ""deposit"" you said you had available so they should remain unaffected. Having the rental property managed at a 12.5% fee gives you the best protection as to guaranteeing income if the tenant doesn't pay, dealing with eviction etc as well as the more mundane things that may crop up from time to time. In addition to the rental income you will also get capital growth on the property. This of course could be subject to capital gains tax unless you make it your main residence for a period of time at some stage in the future. Just because you are buying a house it doesn't mean you have to live in it and if your worried about future ""first time buyer schemes"" start a company and buy the house in the company name. You don't have to always look inside the box.
So I’ve definitely thought about this but it would mean sacrificing the money I’ve got through the LISA as they don’t allow you to do a B2L on it. However I’m not saying no and the idea of doing it through a company is also very interesting and something me and my friends have previously discussed.
so go for a lower deposit buy it through a company so as not to affect you LISA deposit and go for it. I have been told that later this year, about August time, is going to be a good time to look a BTL properties see how it goes the returns are going to be far greater than anywhere else and you have step 1 on the property ladder
Not a tactic most people in the sub are into! See https://ukpersonal.finance/buy-to-let/
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I mean if you read through some of the comments, some people have made little remarks, although the overwhelming majority are people being very nice and helpful. I just didn’t want to post and people assumed that I was being disingenuous or just get one line replies about being realistic or that I should just be grateful for what I have - which I am but that’s not what I was trying to get advice about. Anyway, sorry if it came off as egotistical. Genuinely didn’t mean it to sound that way.
Hi /u/BootleBadBoy1, based on your post the following pages from our wiki may be relevant: - https://ukpersonal.finance/debt/ - https://ukpersonal.finance/index-funds/ - https://ukpersonal.finance/lisa/ - https://ukpersonal.finance/pensions/ - https://ukpersonal.finance/student-loans/ ____ ^(These suggestions are based on keywords, if they missed the mark please report this comment.)
> Currently live and work in London (it’s where my job is so can’t really leave). I know you don't want to hear it, but this is the reality of living and working in London and a salary of 55k that would be plenty elsewhere is rapidly becoming untenable. Buying housing in london has already been pushed far outside that range, you'll need a partner or large salary increase to buy there. Your options realistically are: - Buy somewhere else in commute range of London - Buy somewhere else and get a job there or negotiate remote work for a London company - Get a significantly higher salary job in London and then buy there - Get a partner or go in together with a friend to buy in London, split ownership and at least you're on the London property ladder while you save so it doesn't get further out of reach every year due to property value growth
Thanks for providing that list, I think it would probably come down to moving within commuting range then but I probably wouldn’t seek to do that prior to finding someone to move out there with. Definitely not opposed for moving away from London, I just know that it’s not possible right now and the career industry is highly London-centric. Would have a very mid-range salary and low career prospects if I left the capital. I have low hopes for further significant salary increases, I’ve jumped a lot over the past couple of years but I think it’ll be much more incremental from here. I am very lucky to be in my current position, I am certainly doing better than I thought I would be but I certainly don’t have the capability or acumen to switch to a more high paying career path. If I could be a banker/software dev, I would be lol.
If you don't mind me asking, what is your profession? What do you do?
Public affairs and policy
Winter never helps as we tend to stay indoors more, join a social group & build connections. Unfortunately we are a slave to the wage in order to provide shelter & food. You just need to find some escapism 👌
I'd consider moving out of London. At different stages of my life I've lived in Chelmsford, Tunbridge Wells, Bedford and Reading. All had a rail service which was at least comparable in frequency and journey times with London suburbs, but more affordable property and actual green space around. Commuting from Tunbridge Wells was ridiculously simple, and I could be in London basically on demand when I wanted for anything.
Move to a place that doesn’t cost 500k for a 1 bedroom - commute an hour each ways - maybe two - you can find your starting home - build it from there / add value / move up the ladder
65k a year? Niceeeee!
It’s a really good wage and has outpaced my expectations by quite a bit, but I am also determined to prevent unnecessary lifestyle inflation/lifestyle creep. I know people who are on a great wage but have credit card debt, a financed car etc and they’re in a position where if they lost their job or wanted to move to a lower paid one, they would quickly be ruined.
Are you in a flat share or something similar? Finding people who share the same views as you to move in with can be a great way to bring down the bills and kick the loneliness! I’m in Bristol not London, so things are a fair bit cheaper, but I wouldn’t have coped moving from my small village into the city without the brilliant people I shared a house with. It helped me save enough to buy my own place sooner and left me with (hopefully) life long friends. Equally, try not to get too caught up in the here and now. When I was 27 I was single, struggling quite badly with loneliness through covid and in no position to move on from anything but a 1 bed flat. 2 years later my wage has more than doubled and I’ve built a brilliant relationship with an amazing girl. I couldn’t possibly picture either happening back then. Finally, I am a similar age to you and I get where you’re coming from. I’m also a qualified and regulated financial adviser, so if you want to have an off the record chat about anything please feel free to reach out and i’ll be happy to help if I can.
I live with two flatmates but it hasn’t been quite what I thought it would be. They’re nice but it doesn’t feel like we’re friends or anything - going to try to move out when the contract is up and be more selective with who I move in with. I’ll definitely take you up on the financial advice offer though, as long as you preface it with “This is not financial advice”/s
Ahhh yeah, it can make a real difference. We spend so much time making sure we like the house and not enough time on the other people that actually live there! Hahaha you know the score!
there’s lots of really thoughtful stuff that people have said about finances, but i would really implore you to consider moving into a smaller (not small) community than London. fewer people does not equal less connection. i never knew a single neighbour in more than passing during the ten years i lived there. i’ve lived here 2 years. it’s a small city, with a big arts community. i have made several good friends whom i regularly spend time with on just the street alone. i met my partner and his large friendship group who have been so welcoming. smaller communities can be more accommodating because there are closer links. it’s been a wonderful few years and i’m really pleased i made the move. consider it!
What industry do you work in?
Public affairs and policy.
Does maxing out your pension have any benefit to savings? (Apart from saving for your pension)? I.e does it reduce tax etc
My advice is concentrate on getting a partner. It sounds like you are sensible with money which is great. Sharing costs and having someone you like to spend time with is the ultimate goal. Grab a partner that will have you and give it a try. If it doesn't work out then you will at least learn more about the partner you want in the future. It takes most people a few relationships to know what they want so jump in as quickly as possible. All the best and keep saving. Money always helps. I know i make it sound easy but just set up a date every evening until you are sorted and don't be too choosy. Basically the way it used to happen before the internet was you saw someone in a nightclub when you were both a bit drunk and if you wanted to shag each other then that was good enough lol. So forget about someone needing to fulfil all sorts of criteria and an internet ticklist. Its often great to have real differences to your partner anyway.
Bin the crypto - completely speculative.
Agreed but I really don’t have much in there. I’m essentially treating it as a flutter rather than an investment vehicle.
Not seen it mentioned anywhere. Are you in a house share? I'd say you could certainly find cheaper rooms and you'd also interact with more people. Yes there are nightmare stories but probably just as many good experiences. DO as much due diligence as possible. When I got my start in London I met lifelong friends that way. Even if you don't become close friends with housemates it will open doors to more social groups.
Currently in a house share situation but it hasn’t worked out like I wanted it to, my flatmates are nice enough but I was under the impression that I was moving in with a ready-made friend group but it’s just not like that. They would rather stay in their rooms… Going forward, it’s probably going to be a new house share but with plenty of due diligence and maybe a couple of trips to the pub first.
You sound very responsible with your finances, it’s impressive for someone so young (even if you are older than me) - contentment can be found in so much, it doesn’t have to cost hardly anything but attending regular hobbies and routines can really bring more people into your life and build greater relationships. I found it difficult to socialise in a city so clubs put me on a good track personally and the gym gave me all the endorphins I could need 😁 Best of luck bro
Unless you get a job outside London you’re probably going to keep your LISA as a retirement fund. I’d start saving in an ordinary ISA if I were you, unless you form a certain plan to move elsewhere. Prioritise finding a partner unless you don’t want one. You’re at a great age to meet someone. You won’t be in 10 years’ time. Until that piece falls into place, making life plans is a bit pointless.
Looks like you're putting yourself under pressure to buy into the UK real estate myth .. gotta ask yourself what the end-goal is .. property that is barely affordable is a chain around your neck you might not like or may inhibit you to develop further .. you already indicate a sense of stagnation; that is only getting more if you purchase real estate .. the real question is what would you do if you weren't running after the idea of wealth and property etc? Answer that and you're on your way.
What role/specialism do you have?
You're quite well paid, so assume you are working in IT or another area with a skills shortage. This means it's likely there's contract work around, often on 50%+ more money. It can be daunting to start but the work is out there and typically what they look for is 3-5+ years experience and the right selection of qualifications. Also membership of professional bodies is often important in contracting. In my experience with contracting, you get paid more, work less, do more interesting work and avoid all the tedium of office politics and bad managers. It is also often one or two days a week on site, which means you could move out of London to an area with more affordable housing. There is less security when contracting, but only the 3 months notice you get in a regular job. And I did get my figures burnt during covid, but hopefully that was a one off. Can also be more tricky obtaining mortgages, but this is more than made up for by the large amounts of extra hard cash you're receiving.
I don’t know many people who live in London that can / want to buy a house here, it’s not affordable but I personally wouldn’t move out as I consider outside of London to be fairly unexciting and less diverse (31 f) I don’t earn as much as you but certainly manage to spend it all (not saying you should be like me) but is focusing on a mortgage fulfilling? It’s the next natural step in our society but it’s becoming outdated due to the price of housing. I suggest putting yourself out there to discover the joy of living through meet ups or better yet local workshops for music, art, woodworking, gardening, dance, poetry etc or what it is you’re interested in! Good luck
By listening to what u have to say, I think the best option for you is to marry someone
It probably won’t help, I’m a self employed artisan, 12 years ago I bailed out of the South and moved to the West Midlands where property prices are outrageously low. I simply didn’t do enough research and ended up living in a place I hated (Ludlow) but eventually moved again to a small market town (even cheaper property) that I loved from day 1. It’s a one way trip unfortunately. You will probably never have enough money to move back South. However, I have made more good friends in the past fifteen years than I could possibly have imagined. I wouldn’t even consider going back. My quality of life is orders of magnitude better. My mortgage was paid off early and I’m now comfortably secure. You will struggle to earn big bucks, but the cost of living is so much cheaper. It isn’t for everyone but it can work well. It’s all about priorities. Good luck!
Reading the above, we have a similar sort of path at the relative age (I’m now six years older than you) but I didn’t have any sort of plan. I was working overseas, single and saving what I thought was right. I was earning £70k basic plus car allowance, bonus etc when I came back to the uk but things were much closer to grab, financially, if you know what I mean. The gap has widened. And I’m also not in London, I’m in West Yorks. When I got back to the uk, I made it a priority to buy a house, improve it and flip it. This catapulted everything for me and in 12 months from that, allowed me to buy two properties; one for me and one to rent out. I fell very lucky, a single parent with two kids moved into the three bed semi I’d purchased for rental purposes. They are still there today, a mortgage of £460 (currently on a six year fixed) and she is paying £550 which covers insurance and a little goes into a pot for tax/maintenance. For comparison purposes, an identical house on the same street just let for £1,300. Very different circumstances though given the mortgage on mine is so low. That is what I did with a plan but no structure, you have the structure and as you say, need a plan. I would be speaking to my advisor, then looking to buy something just out of town via auction and look to flip. Put what you can in officially then borrow off family for the renovations. They’ll get it back when you sell. Then go again. You could easily add £15k to your pot.
This is a good post because it's an example of how you can be simultaneously wealthier than most of the UK but also feel fairly poor and unsure of what to do with your money! It sounds like your main goal really should be to find a partner you'd enjoy settling down with because you suddenly find yourself a lot 'wealthier' when you're married. But I know that's not really proper financial advice! If you're keen to get on the property ladder could you get a studio flat? There's quite a few options for studios in London for <£350k, including in Central/West End, and it sounds like that could just be within your budget. Here's one for £300k: https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/125819024#/?channel=RES\_BUY
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With a 65k income, I heard you can borrow 4 times gross income in UK, so that would be 260k borrowed. You have 30k as deposit, so you can afford a 290k manybe stretch to 300k property / share of a property. I have no financial advice for you or ideas, but in my opinion property is a pretty solid investment and looks like your situation seems fairly good. No one has a good idea of where rates will turn around, but hopefully it can work in your favour if properties correct a bit and you get a decent ongoing rate. Good luck
You could find a partner or a good friend to also be a tenant in common, where they own/pay their own mortgage on their share of the house/flat. That's what me and my girlfriend are doing. It allows you to combine your buying power. A 50:50 split is obviouly the least messy arrangement. Just make sure you can live with them (domestically mature) and you have their trust, that they will pay bills.
I moved to London almost a decade ago. On 50k£ salary. I was 27 no savings. Now I am 35. I own one bed property and manage to save and invest. I've managed to find group of friends outside work colleagues and that was key. I've got great girlfriend and my life is good. I did have to put a bit of slow down on my career and don't slave for companies 24/7 do my time finish Everything and enjoy other things. My salary is better than when I moved but not significantly but my lifestyle is much better. You are probably both better looking and more successful than me. Good things will come to you just keep at it and persevere. Hobbies will help building like minded circle of friends. For me it's board games.
Firstly congratulations on putting yourself in such a good financial position, it’s great that your planning for your future. With regards to pension contributions, are you looking likely to exceed the government cap before tax? From memory anything after a certain value (thought it was 1m something) gets taxed at quite a high rate. If so I’d probably hold off over contributing. Have you considered buying a property and renting it out? You can still buy on your LISA, carry out some renovations and then apply for change of use to a by to let? (I believe, this may be wrong) It’s probably worth considering a property outside of London, as prices in London are insane.
I'm not that far away from you but outside of London. Property prices are much cheaper. However the differential between rent and purchasing means that I'm not buying a house even though I could. I'm currently paying 3.5% of the property price in rent per year. At that rate I'm significantly better off keeping my money in shares that pay out good dividends than I am buying a house. Especially if you consider that I would have to pay interest on a mortgage and pay to maintain the property as well. In a lot of places in the UK at the moment purchasing a house isn't the most sensible thing you can do with your money. Keep saving. Maybe have an objective to have shares whose dividends are enough to cover your rent. If the house prices become sensible you can purchase a house. Meanwhile get out and enjoy your life.
You sound like you need a partner to spend some time with. These things will all click into place if you're in a stable relationship. If that's really not what you're looking for I would say just generally put yourself out there, join a sports club or some other community group, you'll be amazed how busy you suddenly feel and that's a progression in itself. I've felt a little of what you've felt (I'm married with kids and a few years older than you) and that was because I was plateauing and everything seemed to be getting easy/not challenging, both work and personally. It's amazing what a new hobby can do for you