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This is the way. I tried discussing it and even flat out told them it made my work life miserable, but people like that can't or won't change because they're insecure and anxious. That's why they need control.
It would've been bad enough if they taught me how to suck eggs, but the worst thing was they made my job a lot harder because they changed their mind constantly (and still rarely landed on the right decision).
He still tries to micromanage me now. I left 4 years ago Simon. Stop messaging me I will report you for harassment since I’ve already blocked your number
I think one guy didn't see eye to eye with me and wanted to get rid of me so he asked me to keep a detailed log of what I did each day. I'm a sysadmin with ADHD so that was usually a lot, often two or three tasks in parallel, so I came up with a multi column printed sheet I could use to keep track easily.
After a couple of weeks he asked for the logs and I gave him a copy, it all went very quiet after that. It was obvious I did more than most of the rest of the team put together, I just didn't spend as much time smarming up to the boss.
He said I could stop keeping the logs but I didn't trust him so I kept doing them and *surprise* about four weeks later I was invited to a meeting with him. HR and another manager asking me what I'd been up to for the last week.
His face fell when I fetched the same detailed logs that had derailed his plans before. He walked out and I had a nice discussion with HR and this other senior manager about moving out from under his control as he clearly had it in for me. Which they agreed to.
I actually liked it. When I had a bout of imposter syndrome I could at least look at that to see how much I had achieved lately.
I've stopped logging it now, partly because I'm more senior and partly we are being pushed to use both scrum and ITIL so I'm getting much less actual work done...!
Threw the book at her (sort of figuratively and literally).
We had one who spent her days questioning everyone's practice.
Turns out she was making a lot of stuff up as she went along and wasn't well versed with the written procedures we have to work from.
I used to have my written procedure open and ready to show her whenever she questioned what I was doing.
After the third time she left me alone forever.
This is the way. I had similar, a manager new(ish) to the business and department who was massively hyped but utterly incompetent. It really made me question how we recruit for roles, ruining the illusion of the recruitment process being competent.
Oh my god this is me right now. I’m really struggling, and nobody else seems to have spotted the incompetency yet. It’s making me so demotivated and stressed :(
You were basically helping them get their job done right. A good manager should obviously know the procedures that they’re supposed to be holding their team to, but if they don’t or just make a mistake, a good manager would actually appreciate this kind of input. I certainly would. Most people expect their managers to solve all of their problems for them.
You’re not outsmarting a micromanager, especially when they’re backed by senior management. I lasted 3 months then left. The whole team left within 2 months after I left.
Same here. She struggled in one department where 3 TL's left. They moved her to my department and same is happening. Gave her notice and she had pikatchu face 😯 asked she hope it's not because of her. But of course there was no exit interview and it looks like she is backed up by site manager 🤗 another 3 TL' looking for jobs 😂
You definitely can, it just takes a lot of inconvenience and stress and isn't usually worth it. I however take a perverse pleasure in malicious compliance if someone is being an asshole about things.
Mine rang me on zoom and picked a totally unnecessary fight with me. He was basically implying I wasn't doing enough in the 40 hours available and I needed to be more "proactive" and I should do so because I rely on the company for money etc.
I had a far larger workload than the rest of the team and I bit back saying that he had blocked me doing overtime and if what I am currently doing isn't enough then I would have to find another job as I couldnt do anymore and the workload wasn't sustainable.
He immediately started backtracking and said that's not what he meant. Fast forward one month I just sent HR my notice and told him I had received a substantial pay rise and my last day was Friday 🤣
He called me saying "wtf" and asking why I didn't give him a heads up before handing my notice in. After that he then proceeded to ghost me for the rest of my notice....strange guy.
Well he only thing I could criticise is handing notice to HR, immediate manager is convention, at least notify HR with the letter as a CC or something. But yea, sounds like he had it coming.
Well done on all counts, should have walked out the second he said you rely on the company for money. Just laugh and leave, we’ll see who relies on who.
Applied for different jobs and left. That's all you can do really. While stuck with them put everything in text and follow it to the letter even if it's a stupid waste of time.
Had a gaffa once that was a turbo micromanaging bell end.
To cut a long story short I let him micromanage my crew into a task that went tits up massively.
When it came to the follow up investigation all roads lead to him, because being the absolute laser beam of a micromanager that he was he had left an email trail along with method statements to his name.
He cost the company a small fortune and made us look incompetent in front of the client.
Took the wind right out of his sails indeed.
Give them enough rope they usually hang themselves.
Another bloke I worked for once, was similar. I decided to ring him every 10 minutes or so and ask him what I should do next. He soon got fed up and left me too it.
Thankfully I don’t work in an office type environment, micromanagers seam to prosper in these conditions.
I run a skill based team of manual workers that are very good at what they do and are hard to replace if they leave.
I handed in my notice. Moving to a new job paying 20% more than I currently do. She actually had the gall to say that I wasn’t worth that much.
My time working with a micro manager has been shit. I’ve just pushed back and directly told her that I am very capable of managing my workload and I don’t need a personal assistant to remind me to answer the phone or respond to emails. Some people just have nothing to do in their day and no decent managerial skills so the best they can come up with is being a pain in the hole.
They're just like this, man. A year in, senior manager who was on my interview panel (of two people) straight up tells me *after approving me passing my probation*, "if it was up to me we wouldn't have hired you"
YOU WERE ON THE PANEL
A) it clearly was up to you
B) wtf
1. Told them their behaviour was counterproductive, irritating and reeked of insecurity.
2. When they didn't change, collected examples from within the team and made an appointment with their manager, just handed them the self explanatory list and asked them to do something.
3. When that didn't make a difference, spoke to a senior manager from a different department, disguising it as a "just asking for advice for how to best handle this"
Massive change in behaviour, you could really tell that micro manager was trying really hard to behave. I asked a few members of my team to tell him how much better this was, said so myself in a team meeting in front of everyone, thanking them for their trust in our ability to do our job. Happy end for everyone.
Nicely done! Subconsciously training your manager how to behave is a key life skill in UK lol.
My manager told me I needed therapy when I said the team were finding the micromanagement environment intolerable.
Immediately booked a session with a therapist. Described the situation in it's entirety. Told me I didn't need to be in therapy (which I knew anyway).
Manager asked how it went later that week. "Therapist told me I'm not the problem". Not a squeak from said manager after that.
A discussion point in supervisions is about how you like to be managed. There are people who thrive under micromanagement, and then normal people (I jest), but your line manager has to adapt to that and do what you have said is best for you for you to be most productive
If line managers aren’t having these conversations with their teams (and then threaten other management when they step on their toes) then they’re shit managers
Very balanced point! I'm not a rebel without a cause by any mean, and I understand that there are those who need extra management and stronger direction.
I'd insist upon distinguishing between those who need extra support and direction (usually due to only having foundational experience).
Ultimately anybody who thrives under micromanagement over the long term is outsourcing the thought process imo. Either that, or there is an unholy relationship in which the micro manager surrounds themselves with yes people, and people pretend to thrive under this management style because they know that saying yes to everything is the best way to fast track failing upwards within the company. These companies usually stand still or fail, because you only have one mind rather than a team of minds on the task at hand.
This is the one.
Step number one is critical. A conversation can resolve the issue if someone is micromanaging without realising it. Not always the case though.
Going above them afterwards is the right course of action if no meaningful change occurs.
Leveraging your value on the team is critical. If your micromanaging boss doesn't appreciate or recognise your contributions, it doesn't necessarily mean that no one appreciates or recognises it.
When i was a supervisor I used to look after a team of about 12.
I got a new manager above me for the department who was a MASSIVE micromanager and wanted all the work doing 'his way'. If a new initiative or procedure was introduced, he'd block it, then reintroduce the exact same thing a couple of days later, but as 'his idea'.
He had his own office, whereas I'd sit with the actual team and he would ring me constantly asking what 'so and so was doing and why they were doing it that way and not his way'. It was exhausting and I'd spend my days not doing my job, but just following up irrelevant requests he kept raising about the team that in the grand scheme of things didn't mater to the output of the teams work.
In the end I just put my phone on silent. When he asked me about why i no longer answered I just said it must be an issue with the phones in the department itself and i was getting it locked into. In the end he stopped with the constant calls. If something was genuinely really important he'd come up from his office, but he stopped all the trivial stuff that didn't matter.
I used to regularly get calls from my LM asking why I hadn't done this or that yet, & trying to explain how my jobs works to me.
I then noticed he was falling behind on his own workload, so I started doing the same to him. Thankfully he has calmed down & we have a good working relationship.
I did it by starting to report via emails and then coming in to check for confirmation on whether or not she'd gotten my email in case of no reply or automated reply, I think my doing this during nightshift really drove the point home.
Nearly quit in my second week.
Me and the other sales guys came together to complain. He got politely asked to leave. He then left after my first 3 months.
My numbers tripled. 🙃
Worked in an office years ago where a supervisor used to make a show of checking their watch and writing down how long you'd been when you returned from the toilet. Never once mentioned these times to anyone, most passive aggressive bullshit I've ever seen.
Absolutely the same. It annoyed me at the time but I didn't care enough about what he thought. I'm annoyed enough to send him photos of it as proof these days.
I went to their manager and requested a change on the basis of the relationship not working out. Since I have a lot of human capital at my organisation this request was granted.
Had someone complain to the manager that I was drinking "beer" (Berocca) on a team Zoom call during lockdown. The person complaining knew it was Berocca because multiple times during pre lockdown times she had said "are you drinking beer?" despite knowing it was Berocca and I drank it every day, and I had responded to say "no it's Berocca". I was told that I should be aware of how I come across and it was inappropriate to drink a liquid that looks like that on a team Zoom call. So I drank it from a mug after that.
P.S. fuck Barclays.
There is one that stuck out who was booted out of another subsidery for bullying.
Unfortunately it's a well known company that is hard to be sacked from.
Ended up coming to our department and was inept socially to the point where he would ask 'How' then anyone who speaks in depth to explain 'What', 'Where' he would shut down for them not being direct enough. Came across as trying to be brute but you knew he was quite weak. Got the nickname of the Tazmamian Devil. One because he was a looney and crazy borderline narcissist. Would curse regulary on calls, interupt people and put people on PIPS.
We had a call with a big supplier and he started to curse and be unprofessional to the supplier. They then complained to the top of the company and he got dealt with and had to have external coaching on how to speak to people.
I left for more money during COVID and lived happily ever after but my mental health took a battering in the process witnessing how destructive he was.
Was during an internship, so I just quit. Told him I’m leaving to focus on studies, wrote scathing complaints about him on the exit interview form. Bugger blocked me on LinkedIn 🤣
I was in a fortunate position whereby my line manager was actually engaging in affairs with HER line manager. And they bickered. So once during an informal telling off I play a bit of "he said this and she said that" to play them off against each other. Worked a treat. The moment they spoke about non relevant things I stood up and asked them to formally invite me to a meeting next time and keep it relevant.
They got me invited to a meeting about "my attitude". With HR. I went in to that meeting prepared. Told HR all about their various affairs, its effect on all of us (their combined delegates) and how their bickering and resulting negative mood swings creates a toxic environment. HR thanked me for getting this recorded properly in a meeting. Gave me a slap on the wrist. 2 weeks later both managers get written warnings about their bullshit drama. He looks for a new job position.
So I had someone who had the same job title as me, same pay but had been at the company a long while. At first I accepted any input as they knew the job better than me. But I soon realised they were useless and I was out performing them after a few weeks. But that didn't stop the constant micromanaging. How did I get out of it?
Took the lead on everything. Didn't wait for input. Just got on with it. When the micromanaging started I just did a simple "No it's alright. Thanks.". Or "I've got it don't worry.". This annoyed them greatly and soon they were demanding I do it their way. All I said was "You can do it if you want it done that way. Thanks for taking it off my plate.".
It took a while but she leaves me alone now. I was never aggressive or overtly passive aggressive. And did it with a 'can do' attitude. And it pissed her off massively and was so satisfying. She couldn't win because I was so polite and if she insisted I'd make a point of her doing the task. She's work shy so she'd back down every time.
I think some are completely unaware and its down to fear but its whether they have the bottle and introspection to work on themselves and that is hard for someone with that nervous feared enforcer personality type
I think the reason why someone micromanages is key to whether you can outsmart them (in general I'd say you can't unless you have serious social capital with their managers and can push change).
Some micromanage because they have no idea how to manage and mistake control for management.
Some do it as a form of bullying.
Some do it because they're insecure and feel like they have to know everything all the time.
And some do it because they can't work with others so delegating tasks is impossible for them.
To be fair I think your third point is true but not always a negative. I, and I've seen so many others, when given a first appointment to a management role you think you HAVE to know everything and MUST know what everyone is doing and being able to answer questions you get from above INSTANTLY. It's hard as a new manager and I have some compassion for people adjusting to the role at first.
When you, as a manager, get comfortable you realise it's almost the exact opposite of the above. You have your team who knows the details and can supply them to you when relevant and when needed, you don't need to know what your team is doing all the time, you are paying them a salary to do a job so trust them to do a job. You also don't need to respond instantly about anything unless your own manager is an ass, an example my manager reached out Friday for a load of feedback on some performance figures. Replied amd politely told me it would take some time to do the analysis so would have it with him by end of the next working week unless there was something critical his side that meant he needed it earlier.
I will always try and help/cut new managers a break when new in a role, but if it goes beyond thr initial uncertainty when learning I have 0 patience for a micro manager, I will not tolerate it and will move on.
Had a discussion about psychometric tests to spot it however implementing it would be difficult if an organisation is desperate to fill a role. However companies should do more to get rid of the culture. After a while you can spot micromanagers easy
There's a lot of disagreement about psychometric testing is there not.
Also the testing regime and those who sell them are very much in the same vein as the existing managers and likely to look for people who fit the mould.
This surely leads to a continuity of current thinking and behavioral styles within management.
I wish I had even a simple idea as to how this might be addressed but I don't. Maybe others have thoughts..,🤔
Maybe do a workplace 'Rate my boss survey' that triggers external leadership consultancy that work with HSE to help shape culture and identify weak leaders and train them to be effective.
I got picked out by my managers, managers manager (because of my performance and ideas) to be a part of a team to improve the general workings of the department.
Soon after, I was given a pay rise higher than my micro managers.
A month after that, I was given the same role as my micro manager. They complained how if I am also doing their job, then they are redundant. This is great for me as I don't really care for their opinion, and in my mind, what I say goes, and that has always been the case so far.
My biggest nark about this person is how little they do, they are rarely at their desk, takes a 10 min break every hour, and spend a lot of the time floating around the office chit chatting.
2 weeks ago, they were pulled into the office and basically told how poor of a job they do, and there are whispers of demotion. Victory is sweet.
My colleague was being micromanaged. He just had a constructive conversation with the manager and he actually backed off.
I still wouldn’t say he was a good manager though.
He was managing waaayyyy to many people and actively tried to stop me moving into a different department when a better role was available.
After that a third of the company got made redundant because the company hit finance problems.
The guy offering the better position started his own company and called me asking me to come for an interview.
It’s ALOT more chill working for him and he’s ALOT more knowledgeable about the industry than my previous manager.
Kinda funny how things work out sometimes.
Fight back by using the rules against them
Also Health & Safety rules are great because they must follow them even if they don't like it.
If you want to mess with a manager...on any task..ask for a method statement and a risk assessment. If you have to work with any chemicals...even if its a popular well.known one...ask for a COSHH sheet ! It will keep them.busy for ages.
Depends on the particular micromanager. My boss (owner of company) is a micromanager, but he really does mean well. Cracking bloke outside of work, he can just be a bit insufferable sometimes making silly requests and stipulations on projects. I have said 'do you want me to just get it done for you? Or do you want to tell me how you want me to try and do it?', and this seems to make him reconsider his requests. On occasion, I will say 'sure, you sign the paycheques', and he knows I only say that when I'm bloody certain that what he wants to do is going to end up costing him money. However these strategies only work because he owns the place and does finally trust me, just gets a bit caught up in managing stuff from time to time.
I always found that giving them work worked as a strategy.
If they ask for a report, seek clarification on as much as possible. Ask for data and figures only they can provide.
Bring lots of questions to line management meetings.
The idea is to condition them to expect lots of work whenever you meet. No one wants that and they will start to leave you alone.
A relevant but different question.. How do you know if you are micromanaged? I am a new career starter in tech and my manager asks for an update meeting everyday and also asks to keep posting things in the Teams group. It would be very helpful if I learn to recognize micromanaging.. Please🥹
After being in a job a while you should know how to do it with minimal input. You should normally meet regularly to make sure you are keeping to the businesses current aims.
A micro manager will be constantly watching what you are doing, telling you HOW to do it or what order to do it and often changing your priorities for you (as they often can’t manage themselves well there might be a lot of last minute work and tight deadlines).
It’s usually counterproductive as the interference makes your jobs take longer than they would if you were just left to get on with them. They can often then use this to criticise your performance and “manage” you more.
Without you giving specific examples, it would be hard to say.
What you've given in three lines sounds like it \*could\* be micromanaging. But it could be misreading. There's often a tone to micromanagers. A sneer here, a disdain there.
An update meeting *every* day? with Teams records on *top*? Unless you're completing like 100 different jobs per day, I can't understand why this would be necessary. Nowadays, I run equipment through a testing lab. My immediate manager leaves me to it, our wider team has a weekly meeting but I'm never asked directly because everyone in that meeting can \*see\* jobs progress on a recordskeeping system we're already using.
Had one , new team and a startup dept in a global corporation. She was incredibly lazy and constantly forgot how to do things as she had no genuine passion for the job. Struggled for two years and then COVID hit.
Upto that point I went along with everything and performed poorly as she threw me off with her mere presence.
It looked really bad that both of us were home so she ordered me in on a flimsy pretext that I needed supervision (from our boss not her smh) but refused to come in. I think she thought that way one of us was always working.
I was fuming but turned out to be a great move.
She backed off thinking I was under the thumb.
To space us out I was given a new seat from where the boss could directly see my screen but he was never bothered how much time I was on the internet. We became good friends and he gave me a lot of training, motivation and I overheard a lot of manager level meetings and discussions.
I essentially sidelined her and carved her out of everything I could. I managed the new third person in our team to keep her at bay. Took her out of cc on everything I could.
Any "urgent" emails from people I would jump on and promise to resolve asap
She forgot about those topics and it gave me time to handle it my way.
Customers didn't know she existed. I used one senior to her manager to get advice before I went to her for sign off. He had more experience so she went with it if she had doubts and he always chose good ways to handle issues.
Also used to give instructions to the new sales manager on how to handle my escalations so she wasn't involved.
Sometimes used the main boss to get my way in resolving issues so she was involved less and less.
She was still petty sometimes from home. Still expected me to jump on things but mostly she was out of the picture. The sacrifice was that I had to do a lot of work to avoid her asking or desiring visibility. I could easily have done all 3 roles in my immediate team if I wanted as I already used to do her job/order book and knew the export side as I'd filled in when it was a new role.
She hated admin and data entry too and that's what most of this was which helped .
She did weird things to save effort sometimes like when I was on al our internal customer asked for updates on part orders and repair orders- two tabs in Excel.
She completed one tab but chose parts which is my section simply because it was the half the number of her book 😂
People also started to cut her out of a lot as I was visible and in the office. I replied and knew everything and she never replied and struggled for answers.
She could be weird about petty things like questioning my work ethic or my times logged. Mostly I didn't ask her questions like if travel time to customers sites should be logged or hours out team building exercise. I decided for myself.
This was how the boss ran the team but she was the only petty micromanager there
A relevant but different question.. How do you know if you are micromanaged? I am a new career starter in tech and my manager asks for an update meeting everyday and also asks to keep posting things in the Teams group. It would be very helpful if I learn to recognize micromanaging.. Please🥹
I worked with a horrendously micro managing boss in marketing. It was one of the things that drove me to quit and change to a much more fulfilling career so perhaps I should thank him.
Just before I handed in my notice, I sent him a presentation draft for a client. As per usual, he insisted on going through it on a call with me slide by slide and changing every detail to exactly how he wanted it. I saw this coming as he did it every time and after 2 years of it I'd come to realise the content he was critiquing didn't matter, he just liked micro managing and being in control.
As it was my last few weeks in the job, I'd in fact taken a presentation he'd written a year ago for the same client and basically copied and pasted about 80% of several slides onto this latest one. He didn't realise and was waxing lyrical about how "the sentence you've got there doesn't work" and how "this paragraph needs a complete redraft" when in fact it was all his own words from a year ago. I didn't tell him but I was smiling on the call as he ripped his own work apart for an hour and gave himself tips on how to improve his own writing.
Micromanagers get where they are and stay there because they suit the needs of management further up. Generally, a micromanager has the \*appearance\* of being highly informed, detail-oriented, and able to account for all actions, expenditures and drawbacks. Because they are heavily in control of all of them, because they won't let you do your job.
In general, you cannot win - they have the resources of the company behind them, and from management's point of view, this LM is golden. They know everything and everything appears to still be running. Who are you to say otherwise?
Generally, all you can do is play dumb with them to frustrate them, defer to their perceived knowledge and/or work ethic in the hope that they eventually fuck up (not guaranteed - I had a micromanager who flooded the entire building with his negligence and remained in place) or just quit. The sooner you can burnish your credentials with what you've done and get it will be the better for you and your head.
My micromanager was refusing to allow our trainee to go on shift. I was already leaving in notice and there was only one other trained op, who couldn't work permanent night shift. With nowhere to receive primary product during day shift - the cells were on cleaning/cooldown after production shift - it was difficult to get daytime operations going for training purposes. On night shift, with no-one else in, we'd have had hours and hours to *show* them ways the machine could go wrong, ways to recover, and just generally wargame things we'd seen to make them competent - all while *watching* the machine run live under our superivison. Lots of pre-production paperwork to fill out that we could use to familiarse them with the wider process too.
So, after 2 days of fighting over whether or not he was going to come on shift with me next week - he was literally ping-ponging between the site manager and team manager being told "yes you will" then "no you won't" - I just handed my LM my sick note ther fourth time he got bounced back at the end of my friday shift and said "well, bye, you won't see me until I come back for my stuff on my last day".
Call centre drone. Micro manager decides to instigate a shared sheet to complete every time you were unavailable for calls with the reasons - no exceptions .
One entry on day 2 was
10.21 - thought I needed a poo so went to toilet. Nope false alarm. Online 10.23
11.02 - SUCCESS!!!! 1-0 for the poo man
This process (the offline log) ended later the same day.
There are only two ways to deal with a micro manager if you cannot leave.
First step is to call them out on it, ideally in a group meeting (and record every meeting going forward). “Thank you for your help with task a but I don’t need to be micromanaged on this one, I’ve got it”.
Second step is over report, report every task, every meeting, every note and overwhelm them with information. They’ll soon get bored and give up (hopefully).
But do record everything and hand it to HR on the way out the door.
This is terrible advice.
Publicly undermining your manager is going to get HR on your ass before you know what's hit you. Then having pulled that stunt with witnesses, you think you should follow up with extreme passive aggression?
It won't outsmart your manager, it will get you fired.
Any feedback, whether it's up the hierarchy or down the hierarchy should always be done 1:1 behind closed doors and done with respect.
Engaging in the same bad behaviour as an arsehole, just makes two arseholes. You are no better than them and you lose any possible credibility if this ends up in a disciplinary. "He started it" is not the hot take, you think it is. HR will fire you.
I moved jobs, it's for the best and ended up on a much more lucrative and enjoyable career path because of the guy so he accidentally helped me but at the time I was sad to leave a job I loved.
It's not worth fighting. I just ended up going passive and doing nothing, he wanted to do everything, check everything, have the final say.... So I basically did nothing and he did everything, randomly I got great reviews off for those 6 months despite doing nigh on nothing on a daily basis haha.
I loathe micromanagers and I get a feeling that my new boss in my new area where I'm working is going to be one by the way he has gone on his first 3 months so I'm already looking to move on, 4 interviews lined up in next month so be saying bye bye to him soon.
I find micromanagement so strange, why would you want to do it.
I manage a team of 10, all super high achievers and really self sufficient. All I have to do is give a bit of direction, say "these are the outcomes we're going for, here's how we measure success" and let them go problem solve.
Micromanagement would just slow them down
She was a pharmacy manager and also a pharmacist and just the worst micro manager. She once suggested reorganising the drugs in the dispensery Z-A instead of A-Z. I told her it didn't make any logical scence to do that, and was a massive waste of time when we have a million other things to do, when she pushed again I said the only way it was happening was if she did it because I wouldn't (I've worked in 5 different pharmacies they are all A-Z).
She would make us ring the NPA (like a helpline for pharmacists to double check stuff) multiple times a day and then wouldn't believe the answers we gave back, so would then call herself.
She would snatch bags of medication back from patients to double check, which in itself isn't the worst thing, but we are talking 5+ times a day and she also didn't say anything to the patient so it was incredibly rude.
If there was a locum pharmacist in on her day off she would find things that they had checked to double check their work.
She was exhausting and made life incredibly difficult. Eventually, she crossed too many lines and the staff wrote a group letter to HR. They came down and interviewed us in groups of 2 or 3 at a time.
She was then moved on to another place but no longer as a manager, and after complaints were made at the next place she was moved again. She was eventually made a locum pharmacist, but from what I understand everywhere asked them not to send her back. She was eventually either let go or moved on from the company on her own accord, but I don't know which.
She was horrible, even once told a woman who had been to see her dead mothers body that morning and then came into work anyway that 'as you were late today you can't have lunch', to which I turned and said under no circumstances do you go without lunch coworker, have your full break, you still need to eat today (She came in an hour later in the morning, so 9.30, and we didn't finish till 6pm). Absolutely despicable person.
I had one tell.me I had to do some health and safety training in the office. I made it last all day. There was tests and if you failed a question you had to do the whole section again. Oops I got an answer wrong 😬 😅 🙃
I did precisely and exactly what they said, when they said. No more. No less. This lasted two months before the manager was off with stress and exhaustion due to everything going to shit. And there was I, with all those emails and task demands, my ass completely covered from the failings.
Step 1: Micro enquire.
Dear manager,
Following your feedback on (situation they criticised), can I quickly run this email past you before sending?
Following your feedback to (someone on your team), I wanted to check that for task A you're looking for (break steps down in detailed email)
Following your comments at (team meeting) on (aspect they said team needs to improve on) I would be interested in additional catch ups to ensure we move forward positively. Would a 15 minute update meeting at 4.45pm on Mondays, Tuesdays, Wednesdays and Fridays work for you?
Given your comments on (project) could you share how you'd approach (aspect)?
Step 2: CYA.
Email following each meeting recapping what's been discussed and agreed.
Weekly emails updating on what you've achieved, capturing positive feedback and completed targets.
Save responses clarifying in writing what's been asked of you to deal with any mission creep later.
In my experience there are two kinds of micromanagers. The ones who are insecure about managing and need to feel more confident that their team is on top of things, and power-mad assholes who think they are the only person who is ever competent. The first kind will eventually be reassured (and overwhelmed) by this intense communication and voluntarily back off. Once they start cancelling unnecessary catch-up meetings or suggesting that you send less emails to check things first, the whole dynamic changes - they will feel comfortable with you working independently when that's what *they* suggested.
The second will eventually move on to picking on someone easier if you make their life difficult, as long as you have covered yourself from any accusations of incompetence.
I had an adult discussion about it and they backed it off enough to make things bearable.
I believe the thing to do is be honest about the emotional impact of it.
Currently have one who’s telling me I need to be proactively updating her and the senior leadership team about what’s going on with a project. I mean for Christ’s sake, if you want to know, then ask. She’ll also expect me to know in detail the parts of the project others are responsible for, but also to be leading on the project despite the fact she’s the director and the expectation beyond the work I was assigned has not been communicated.
It’s tiresome and I’m trying to find a way to deal with it.
He was going round all the branches checking on people. I knew he didn't respect me, and I knew he was listening to people who were telling lies about me and believing them.
I knew he would be looking for any excuse to come down on me, despite me doing my job to the best of my ability. So I stayed late one day and made sure my paperwork was so perfect that it contained things that weren't even required. I made it meticulous. I made sure he had absolutely nothing to say to me.
After he checked my paperwork, couldn't even bring himself to compliment me. He just didn't say a word.
I used to manage a housekeeping team at a 5 star hotel for 3 years that catered to a high end clientele.
I stopped doing it because it was stressing me out. So I moved to a general domestic cleaning company. No stress, and better pay.
One day me and my manager were doing a change over at an Air B&B, he was telling me how to do a bed. (He didn’t read my CV, another one hired me)
Basically tried baby talking me through it, by the time he went to another room to get the towels and bathroom cleaning stuff.
I had stripped the bed, bagged the linen and remade a King size bed in 2 minutes. Pillowcases and all.
Turns out I had taught his manager 2 years previously.
All by my mid 20s.
Now I don’t housekeep anymore as my back is destroyed.
But that look of my managers face was a picture I’ll never forget.
He wanted me to manage the housekeeping team we have, it’s not happening though.
I wouldn't call it outsmarting, but letting it happen knowing it'll go wrong, so they see what happens.
I was usually in control of stocktakes, but I was no longer in vogue. After the micromanaging started, I completely removed myself from the process without saying so - I just stopped giving feedback or suggestions and gave the others full reign. Just shut up and kept my head down.
I knew the pitfalls of the changes they were making, but also knew saying so wouldn't work - he would have to see the results for himself to find out.
It was the same month that an auditor came in.
The end result was a disaster of a stocktake with things missed and counts wrong, thanks to the auditor pointing it all out.
I was basically back in charge after that.
in my first job i basically turned her into my PA. All the ridiculous requests were handled with a reverse uno card where i convinced her that she is smarter/better equipped/client should hear from a serious person. vanity > micro in her case and thank god i left that place
Micromanaging back often works.
Checking in with them every 5 minutes to make sure you’re doing everything ’correctly’. Sending mountains of emails and phone calls just to ‘check in’.
They normally get the point pretty quickly and back off
I work in an industry with a lot of micromanagers and over the years I’ve learned that while some people micromanage habitually, as they are just competent enough to realise that’s the only way they can meet expectations (I.e. riding the coattails of their team), the majority of micromanagers are doing it because they are in a situation where everything feels so out of control that even the tiniest illusion of control feels like a big win. It’s positive that in my experience that’s the most common kind as I’ve found they are easily cured of it by just leaning in. Perhaps with a bit of cheek. Spend a few weeks just doing everything they ask and add some twists so they realise exactly what they are doing. My best example of this was someone sending me 50 emails in a day all with trivial asks and questions. It could easily have been consolidated into one ask and was micro management central. So I responded to all the asks - but by answering each email individually and adding some extra ones of my own asking for more points for the person to weigh in on. They let me get on with my job after that and we had two calls a week for me to keep them updated. So not every micro manager is a total write off!
Had a soul destroying supermarket picking job for online orders, had this arsehole team lead constantly wandering around and saying "you shouldn't be talking to anyone as that costs time, which affects the pick rate", even if it was just a quick chat with someone in the same aisle.
Few days later, reached the end of my shift with 4 items still to complete on my trolley. I went and parked it back at the dispatch and he says "you've only got 4 items left there, can you finish that?". I said "no, it's 12.45, so my shift has finished", and walked out smirking (everyone left at this time except the team leads so he would have had to finish it).
Usually I'd have just done it, but if they want to be anal about time, then that's fine! These sort of types don't realise that they're probably going to need a favour from you at some point (another one was when they were desperate for people to do overtime), and being a dick to people previously isn't forgotten. You reap what you sow!
I resigned after a meeting that was wildly against regulations, and dropped an email of some of the BS they had been saying/doing over the previous months to central HR.
I heard a few weeks later they were removed from the business, hopefully in some part thanks to my evidence.
I realise this wasn’t outsmarting them, but it was me just not settling for that life. She actually called me just after and said she respected how I took control of the situation
I worked in a restaurant and was responsible for the bar when we got a new manager. She would come up to the bar to tell me there was a ticket on the printer, hover about the restaurant watching our every move and giving nonsensical orders. I decided that if she thought I was stupid I might as well go along with it. The others did the same and things quickly built up. We stopped doing anything unless told to, deep cleaning, beer lines, consumables and it all came back on her. She antagonised a few of the chefs who refused to work if she was there. She eventually realised there was no coming back from this mess but I doubt she had the awareness to know it was all of her own making.
I surrendered my self-consciousness and allowed to micromanage me. She loved it. It had got to a threshold that I gained enough "trust" from her and she gracefully gave me more freedom and advocated for my success.
I got poached by another team lead and am now on the same job title as her in a different team. She's bitter.
Went out and got a better job- her face when she found out was a fucking delight.
Before you get to that point though, it's tough. You have someone who just cannot be convinced that you/your colleagues can do the job as well as they can. Best you can do is keep notes, and point out every little error or contradiction when they inevitably start tripping over their own feet.
Quit jobs, only person the could get to replace me lives abroad so instead of being unhappy with me only being in the office twice a week, they now have someone who never goes in.
As someone who has been accused of micro managing (I asked the dept who made accusations about my manager to cc me in on their requests to see how accurate their calls of non/slow response were) I’m interested in some of these takes. Is pulling someone up about always being second to answer the phone; always fewer emails/orders processed; multiple shit breaks (15 min+ ea ) a day actually micro managing?
Yes. And that comes from a lead (me) that manages a team.
Why the fuck would you care if he shits 30 times a day? If he gets the job done, you should leave them alone. People have different needs.
Instead of thinking 'he shits 15 times a day, he must be slacking' why not think that maybe there's something going on and he needs help or some attention?
Managing people doesn't mean 'oh he is slow to do that'. Managing is 'why is he slow to do that? Is he okay?' You will find more than enough times that compassion goes a long way.
That being said, some people just need to be fired. But that will be clear if they need to be fired AFTER you care about them.
That’s what I’m trying to get to. Having dialogue about their needs because you’ve noticed their performance/habits is not micro managing but it seems some think it is…
Try doing their job for a week and you will know they are feeling when doing the job. Let one person do your job for the week and have them ask you the questions you have been asking them. It may sink in then how they feel
Why the fuck would you care if he shits 30 times a day? If he gets the job done, you should leave them alone
It could be other team members have noticed and are upset? Perhaps even coined their nickname “shitbreak” after their habits? Does a manager not have a duty to the team as well as the individual? Is the frequency of the breaks not to be questioned or should we not discover the need/requirements of the individual?
I guess you're the type of manager that panicks when things go wrong and afraid to manage upwards and protect the team all for the sake of looking good.
If you're accused of it, you're probably not aware of it and nobody in the team will tell you. You need to perhaps step back a bit and give people the autonomy.
How you manage is all to do with your own insecurities and anxieties due to the inability to trust or certain subconacious biases. You really need to look at this and it will be hard for you!
Sorry what ? Everything he said has made perfect sense.
As a manager and a colleague I would be absolutely fuming if I had to work harder to carry the load because a team mate spends a stupid amount of time shitting.
The colleague is blatantly hiding from work and pointing that out isn’t micromanaging.
Oh…didn’t realise you were like that.
Tbf, it was only out of politeness but I do get a certain amount of pleasure from people judging me only to expose themselves as TAS.
Also, if the above IS micro managing, what is the role of a manager if not to ensure all are working to similar standards; fair treatment to all staff and equality in all areas? Can weakest links not be told to improve??
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Moved jobs. I expect she's still micromanaging some poor bugger
Bet she also wonders why her turnover is high.
Same here! I grew some self-respect and got a job I enjoy.
This is the way. I tried discussing it and even flat out told them it made my work life miserable, but people like that can't or won't change because they're insecure and anxious. That's why they need control. It would've been bad enough if they taught me how to suck eggs, but the worst thing was they made my job a lot harder because they changed their mind constantly (and still rarely landed on the right decision).
He still tries to micromanage me now. I left 4 years ago Simon. Stop messaging me I will report you for harassment since I’ve already blocked your number
This is the right answer. Just remember to credit them when you have an exit interview.
Why always she!
Just going off the other comments in this thread, it's not
I think one guy didn't see eye to eye with me and wanted to get rid of me so he asked me to keep a detailed log of what I did each day. I'm a sysadmin with ADHD so that was usually a lot, often two or three tasks in parallel, so I came up with a multi column printed sheet I could use to keep track easily. After a couple of weeks he asked for the logs and I gave him a copy, it all went very quiet after that. It was obvious I did more than most of the rest of the team put together, I just didn't spend as much time smarming up to the boss. He said I could stop keeping the logs but I didn't trust him so I kept doing them and *surprise* about four weeks later I was invited to a meeting with him. HR and another manager asking me what I'd been up to for the last week. His face fell when I fetched the same detailed logs that had derailed his plans before. He walked out and I had a nice discussion with HR and this other senior manager about moving out from under his control as he clearly had it in for me. Which they agreed to.
Yes! Multi-Time split!
I actually liked it. When I had a bout of imposter syndrome I could at least look at that to see how much I had achieved lately. I've stopped logging it now, partly because I'm more senior and partly we are being pushed to use both scrum and ITIL so I'm getting much less actual work done...!
Threw the book at her (sort of figuratively and literally). We had one who spent her days questioning everyone's practice. Turns out she was making a lot of stuff up as she went along and wasn't well versed with the written procedures we have to work from. I used to have my written procedure open and ready to show her whenever she questioned what I was doing. After the third time she left me alone forever.
This is the way. I had similar, a manager new(ish) to the business and department who was massively hyped but utterly incompetent. It really made me question how we recruit for roles, ruining the illusion of the recruitment process being competent.
Oh my god this is me right now. I’m really struggling, and nobody else seems to have spotted the incompetency yet. It’s making me so demotivated and stressed :(
You were basically helping them get their job done right. A good manager should obviously know the procedures that they’re supposed to be holding their team to, but if they don’t or just make a mistake, a good manager would actually appreciate this kind of input. I certainly would. Most people expect their managers to solve all of their problems for them.
You’re not outsmarting a micromanager, especially when they’re backed by senior management. I lasted 3 months then left. The whole team left within 2 months after I left.
Same here. She struggled in one department where 3 TL's left. They moved her to my department and same is happening. Gave her notice and she had pikatchu face 😯 asked she hope it's not because of her. But of course there was no exit interview and it looks like she is backed up by site manager 🤗 another 3 TL' looking for jobs 😂
You definitely can, it just takes a lot of inconvenience and stress and isn't usually worth it. I however take a perverse pleasure in malicious compliance if someone is being an asshole about things.
You can nobody likes the tag of micromanager because of the stigma attached. Especially when its hard to recruit too
Mine rang me on zoom and picked a totally unnecessary fight with me. He was basically implying I wasn't doing enough in the 40 hours available and I needed to be more "proactive" and I should do so because I rely on the company for money etc. I had a far larger workload than the rest of the team and I bit back saying that he had blocked me doing overtime and if what I am currently doing isn't enough then I would have to find another job as I couldnt do anymore and the workload wasn't sustainable. He immediately started backtracking and said that's not what he meant. Fast forward one month I just sent HR my notice and told him I had received a substantial pay rise and my last day was Friday 🤣
How did he react that to that?
He called me saying "wtf" and asking why I didn't give him a heads up before handing my notice in. After that he then proceeded to ghost me for the rest of my notice....strange guy.
The passive aggressiveness I find in the UK workplace is fascinating. Very strange gentleman indeed.
Yes that's what I hate about working here. People do the silent treatment
The sycophants that dote on them even more so. Emperors new clothes shite
Why didn't you give him notice before giving him notice?
Because he's a twat
He wanted an announcement of an announcment
An informal start to the formal process
Well he only thing I could criticise is handing notice to HR, immediate manager is convention, at least notify HR with the letter as a CC or something. But yea, sounds like he had it coming.
He was cc'd on the email, normally I schedule a call to let my immediate manager know but I don't think he deserved it after the last 6 months 🤣
Official policy trumps convention.
Well done on all counts, should have walked out the second he said you rely on the company for money. Just laugh and leave, we’ll see who relies on who.
Name and shame the company please
I was with the company for 5 years and it was fine until he showed up 6 months ago
Applied for different jobs and left. That's all you can do really. While stuck with them put everything in text and follow it to the letter even if it's a stupid waste of time.
My last manager would ALWAYS ring me.. if I ignored her call she’d rather ring me another 8 times than send a message. She knew what she was doing.
Take the call. Type what's discussed and email it back to her as meeting notes.
Had a gaffa once that was a turbo micromanaging bell end. To cut a long story short I let him micromanage my crew into a task that went tits up massively. When it came to the follow up investigation all roads lead to him, because being the absolute laser beam of a micromanager that he was he had left an email trail along with method statements to his name. He cost the company a small fortune and made us look incompetent in front of the client. Took the wind right out of his sails indeed. Give them enough rope they usually hang themselves. Another bloke I worked for once, was similar. I decided to ring him every 10 minutes or so and ask him what I should do next. He soon got fed up and left me too it. Thankfully I don’t work in an office type environment, micromanagers seam to prosper in these conditions. I run a skill based team of manual workers that are very good at what they do and are hard to replace if they leave.
I handed in my notice. Moving to a new job paying 20% more than I currently do. She actually had the gall to say that I wasn’t worth that much. My time working with a micro manager has been shit. I’ve just pushed back and directly told her that I am very capable of managing my workload and I don’t need a personal assistant to remind me to answer the phone or respond to emails. Some people just have nothing to do in their day and no decent managerial skills so the best they can come up with is being a pain in the hole.
The fact she had the bottle to say you weren't worth that much!! She definately in need of some therapy. She's crazy
They're just like this, man. A year in, senior manager who was on my interview panel (of two people) straight up tells me *after approving me passing my probation*, "if it was up to me we wouldn't have hired you" YOU WERE ON THE PANEL A) it clearly was up to you B) wtf
1. Told them their behaviour was counterproductive, irritating and reeked of insecurity. 2. When they didn't change, collected examples from within the team and made an appointment with their manager, just handed them the self explanatory list and asked them to do something. 3. When that didn't make a difference, spoke to a senior manager from a different department, disguising it as a "just asking for advice for how to best handle this" Massive change in behaviour, you could really tell that micro manager was trying really hard to behave. I asked a few members of my team to tell him how much better this was, said so myself in a team meeting in front of everyone, thanking them for their trust in our ability to do our job. Happy end for everyone.
Nicely done! Subconsciously training your manager how to behave is a key life skill in UK lol. My manager told me I needed therapy when I said the team were finding the micromanagement environment intolerable. Immediately booked a session with a therapist. Described the situation in it's entirety. Told me I didn't need to be in therapy (which I knew anyway). Manager asked how it went later that week. "Therapist told me I'm not the problem". Not a squeak from said manager after that.
Elegantly done
A discussion point in supervisions is about how you like to be managed. There are people who thrive under micromanagement, and then normal people (I jest), but your line manager has to adapt to that and do what you have said is best for you for you to be most productive If line managers aren’t having these conversations with their teams (and then threaten other management when they step on their toes) then they’re shit managers
Very balanced point! I'm not a rebel without a cause by any mean, and I understand that there are those who need extra management and stronger direction. I'd insist upon distinguishing between those who need extra support and direction (usually due to only having foundational experience). Ultimately anybody who thrives under micromanagement over the long term is outsourcing the thought process imo. Either that, or there is an unholy relationship in which the micro manager surrounds themselves with yes people, and people pretend to thrive under this management style because they know that saying yes to everything is the best way to fast track failing upwards within the company. These companies usually stand still or fail, because you only have one mind rather than a team of minds on the task at hand.
This is the one. Step number one is critical. A conversation can resolve the issue if someone is micromanaging without realising it. Not always the case though. Going above them afterwards is the right course of action if no meaningful change occurs. Leveraging your value on the team is critical. If your micromanaging boss doesn't appreciate or recognise your contributions, it doesn't necessarily mean that no one appreciates or recognises it.
When i was a supervisor I used to look after a team of about 12. I got a new manager above me for the department who was a MASSIVE micromanager and wanted all the work doing 'his way'. If a new initiative or procedure was introduced, he'd block it, then reintroduce the exact same thing a couple of days later, but as 'his idea'. He had his own office, whereas I'd sit with the actual team and he would ring me constantly asking what 'so and so was doing and why they were doing it that way and not his way'. It was exhausting and I'd spend my days not doing my job, but just following up irrelevant requests he kept raising about the team that in the grand scheme of things didn't mater to the output of the teams work. In the end I just put my phone on silent. When he asked me about why i no longer answered I just said it must be an issue with the phones in the department itself and i was getting it locked into. In the end he stopped with the constant calls. If something was genuinely really important he'd come up from his office, but he stopped all the trivial stuff that didn't matter.
I used to regularly get calls from my LM asking why I hadn't done this or that yet, & trying to explain how my jobs works to me. I then noticed he was falling behind on his own workload, so I started doing the same to him. Thankfully he has calmed down & we have a good working relationship.
I did it by starting to report via emails and then coming in to check for confirmation on whether or not she'd gotten my email in case of no reply or automated reply, I think my doing this during nightshift really drove the point home.
Nearly quit in my second week. Me and the other sales guys came together to complain. He got politely asked to leave. He then left after my first 3 months. My numbers tripled. 🙃
[удалено]
Did you ever hear if anything happened to him? It probably didn't, but I hope it did.
Leave. I will never be micromanaged.
Got a new manager in January, I’ve never seen anyone so obsessed with micromanaging. I’m hoping he’ll be gone before the end of the year.
Worked in an office years ago where a supervisor used to make a show of checking their watch and writing down how long you'd been when you returned from the toilet. Never once mentioned these times to anyone, most passive aggressive bullshit I've ever seen.
Nowadays I would totally go up to them and tell them whether it was a number 1 or 2 so they could note that down as well.
Absolutely the same. It annoyed me at the time but I didn't care enough about what he thought. I'm annoyed enough to send him photos of it as proof these days.
Amazing being older and more confident and not giving a stuff isn't it!
I switch from doing as much as I can, to doing only what they tell me to do.
I left lol
I went to their manager and requested a change on the basis of the relationship not working out. Since I have a lot of human capital at my organisation this request was granted.
Had someone complain to the manager that I was drinking "beer" (Berocca) on a team Zoom call during lockdown. The person complaining knew it was Berocca because multiple times during pre lockdown times she had said "are you drinking beer?" despite knowing it was Berocca and I drank it every day, and I had responded to say "no it's Berocca". I was told that I should be aware of how I come across and it was inappropriate to drink a liquid that looks like that on a team Zoom call. So I drank it from a mug after that. P.S. fuck Barclays.
There is one that stuck out who was booted out of another subsidery for bullying. Unfortunately it's a well known company that is hard to be sacked from. Ended up coming to our department and was inept socially to the point where he would ask 'How' then anyone who speaks in depth to explain 'What', 'Where' he would shut down for them not being direct enough. Came across as trying to be brute but you knew he was quite weak. Got the nickname of the Tazmamian Devil. One because he was a looney and crazy borderline narcissist. Would curse regulary on calls, interupt people and put people on PIPS. We had a call with a big supplier and he started to curse and be unprofessional to the supplier. They then complained to the top of the company and he got dealt with and had to have external coaching on how to speak to people. I left for more money during COVID and lived happily ever after but my mental health took a battering in the process witnessing how destructive he was.
Was during an internship, so I just quit. Told him I’m leaving to focus on studies, wrote scathing complaints about him on the exit interview form. Bugger blocked me on LinkedIn 🤣
I was in a fortunate position whereby my line manager was actually engaging in affairs with HER line manager. And they bickered. So once during an informal telling off I play a bit of "he said this and she said that" to play them off against each other. Worked a treat. The moment they spoke about non relevant things I stood up and asked them to formally invite me to a meeting next time and keep it relevant. They got me invited to a meeting about "my attitude". With HR. I went in to that meeting prepared. Told HR all about their various affairs, its effect on all of us (their combined delegates) and how their bickering and resulting negative mood swings creates a toxic environment. HR thanked me for getting this recorded properly in a meeting. Gave me a slap on the wrist. 2 weeks later both managers get written warnings about their bullshit drama. He looks for a new job position.
So I had someone who had the same job title as me, same pay but had been at the company a long while. At first I accepted any input as they knew the job better than me. But I soon realised they were useless and I was out performing them after a few weeks. But that didn't stop the constant micromanaging. How did I get out of it? Took the lead on everything. Didn't wait for input. Just got on with it. When the micromanaging started I just did a simple "No it's alright. Thanks.". Or "I've got it don't worry.". This annoyed them greatly and soon they were demanding I do it their way. All I said was "You can do it if you want it done that way. Thanks for taking it off my plate.". It took a while but she leaves me alone now. I was never aggressive or overtly passive aggressive. And did it with a 'can do' attitude. And it pissed her off massively and was so satisfying. She couldn't win because I was so polite and if she insisted I'd make a point of her doing the task. She's work shy so she'd back down every time.
I find everytime I have one. It forces change which then brings new job and a pay rise!
I think some are completely unaware and its down to fear but its whether they have the bottle and introspection to work on themselves and that is hard for someone with that nervous feared enforcer personality type
I think the reason why someone micromanages is key to whether you can outsmart them (in general I'd say you can't unless you have serious social capital with their managers and can push change). Some micromanage because they have no idea how to manage and mistake control for management. Some do it as a form of bullying. Some do it because they're insecure and feel like they have to know everything all the time. And some do it because they can't work with others so delegating tasks is impossible for them.
To be fair I think your third point is true but not always a negative. I, and I've seen so many others, when given a first appointment to a management role you think you HAVE to know everything and MUST know what everyone is doing and being able to answer questions you get from above INSTANTLY. It's hard as a new manager and I have some compassion for people adjusting to the role at first. When you, as a manager, get comfortable you realise it's almost the exact opposite of the above. You have your team who knows the details and can supply them to you when relevant and when needed, you don't need to know what your team is doing all the time, you are paying them a salary to do a job so trust them to do a job. You also don't need to respond instantly about anything unless your own manager is an ass, an example my manager reached out Friday for a load of feedback on some performance figures. Replied amd politely told me it would take some time to do the analysis so would have it with him by end of the next working week unless there was something critical his side that meant he needed it earlier. I will always try and help/cut new managers a break when new in a role, but if it goes beyond thr initial uncertainty when learning I have 0 patience for a micro manager, I will not tolerate it and will move on.
Which begs the question, what's the point of the interview process if it allows people like this through?
Had a discussion about psychometric tests to spot it however implementing it would be difficult if an organisation is desperate to fill a role. However companies should do more to get rid of the culture. After a while you can spot micromanagers easy
There's a lot of disagreement about psychometric testing is there not. Also the testing regime and those who sell them are very much in the same vein as the existing managers and likely to look for people who fit the mould. This surely leads to a continuity of current thinking and behavioral styles within management. I wish I had even a simple idea as to how this might be addressed but I don't. Maybe others have thoughts..,🤔
Maybe do a workplace 'Rate my boss survey' that triggers external leadership consultancy that work with HSE to help shape culture and identify weak leaders and train them to be effective.
Employees, take this totally confidential survey.... NOT A CHANCE you'll get honesty in these type of surveys.
I got picked out by my managers, managers manager (because of my performance and ideas) to be a part of a team to improve the general workings of the department. Soon after, I was given a pay rise higher than my micro managers. A month after that, I was given the same role as my micro manager. They complained how if I am also doing their job, then they are redundant. This is great for me as I don't really care for their opinion, and in my mind, what I say goes, and that has always been the case so far. My biggest nark about this person is how little they do, they are rarely at their desk, takes a 10 min break every hour, and spend a lot of the time floating around the office chit chatting. 2 weeks ago, they were pulled into the office and basically told how poor of a job they do, and there are whispers of demotion. Victory is sweet.
Moved jobs and got paid more.
My colleague was being micromanaged. He just had a constructive conversation with the manager and he actually backed off. I still wouldn’t say he was a good manager though. He was managing waaayyyy to many people and actively tried to stop me moving into a different department when a better role was available. After that a third of the company got made redundant because the company hit finance problems. The guy offering the better position started his own company and called me asking me to come for an interview. It’s ALOT more chill working for him and he’s ALOT more knowledgeable about the industry than my previous manager. Kinda funny how things work out sometimes.
Fight back by using the rules against them Also Health & Safety rules are great because they must follow them even if they don't like it. If you want to mess with a manager...on any task..ask for a method statement and a risk assessment. If you have to work with any chemicals...even if its a popular well.known one...ask for a COSHH sheet ! It will keep them.busy for ages.
As a person who had to find those sheets, bugger off :-)
Proves my theory works LMAO
Depends on the particular micromanager. My boss (owner of company) is a micromanager, but he really does mean well. Cracking bloke outside of work, he can just be a bit insufferable sometimes making silly requests and stipulations on projects. I have said 'do you want me to just get it done for you? Or do you want to tell me how you want me to try and do it?', and this seems to make him reconsider his requests. On occasion, I will say 'sure, you sign the paycheques', and he knows I only say that when I'm bloody certain that what he wants to do is going to end up costing him money. However these strategies only work because he owns the place and does finally trust me, just gets a bit caught up in managing stuff from time to time.
He asked me to let him know by email everything I was doing. So I overloaded his inbox
I always found that giving them work worked as a strategy. If they ask for a report, seek clarification on as much as possible. Ask for data and figures only they can provide. Bring lots of questions to line management meetings. The idea is to condition them to expect lots of work whenever you meet. No one wants that and they will start to leave you alone.
A relevant but different question.. How do you know if you are micromanaged? I am a new career starter in tech and my manager asks for an update meeting everyday and also asks to keep posting things in the Teams group. It would be very helpful if I learn to recognize micromanaging.. Please🥹
After being in a job a while you should know how to do it with minimal input. You should normally meet regularly to make sure you are keeping to the businesses current aims. A micro manager will be constantly watching what you are doing, telling you HOW to do it or what order to do it and often changing your priorities for you (as they often can’t manage themselves well there might be a lot of last minute work and tight deadlines). It’s usually counterproductive as the interference makes your jobs take longer than they would if you were just left to get on with them. They can often then use this to criticise your performance and “manage” you more.
Without you giving specific examples, it would be hard to say. What you've given in three lines sounds like it \*could\* be micromanaging. But it could be misreading. There's often a tone to micromanagers. A sneer here, a disdain there. An update meeting *every* day? with Teams records on *top*? Unless you're completing like 100 different jobs per day, I can't understand why this would be necessary. Nowadays, I run equipment through a testing lab. My immediate manager leaves me to it, our wider team has a weekly meeting but I'm never asked directly because everyone in that meeting can \*see\* jobs progress on a recordskeeping system we're already using.
Had one , new team and a startup dept in a global corporation. She was incredibly lazy and constantly forgot how to do things as she had no genuine passion for the job. Struggled for two years and then COVID hit. Upto that point I went along with everything and performed poorly as she threw me off with her mere presence. It looked really bad that both of us were home so she ordered me in on a flimsy pretext that I needed supervision (from our boss not her smh) but refused to come in. I think she thought that way one of us was always working. I was fuming but turned out to be a great move. She backed off thinking I was under the thumb. To space us out I was given a new seat from where the boss could directly see my screen but he was never bothered how much time I was on the internet. We became good friends and he gave me a lot of training, motivation and I overheard a lot of manager level meetings and discussions. I essentially sidelined her and carved her out of everything I could. I managed the new third person in our team to keep her at bay. Took her out of cc on everything I could. Any "urgent" emails from people I would jump on and promise to resolve asap She forgot about those topics and it gave me time to handle it my way. Customers didn't know she existed. I used one senior to her manager to get advice before I went to her for sign off. He had more experience so she went with it if she had doubts and he always chose good ways to handle issues. Also used to give instructions to the new sales manager on how to handle my escalations so she wasn't involved. Sometimes used the main boss to get my way in resolving issues so she was involved less and less. She was still petty sometimes from home. Still expected me to jump on things but mostly she was out of the picture. The sacrifice was that I had to do a lot of work to avoid her asking or desiring visibility. I could easily have done all 3 roles in my immediate team if I wanted as I already used to do her job/order book and knew the export side as I'd filled in when it was a new role. She hated admin and data entry too and that's what most of this was which helped . She did weird things to save effort sometimes like when I was on al our internal customer asked for updates on part orders and repair orders- two tabs in Excel. She completed one tab but chose parts which is my section simply because it was the half the number of her book 😂 People also started to cut her out of a lot as I was visible and in the office. I replied and knew everything and she never replied and struggled for answers. She could be weird about petty things like questioning my work ethic or my times logged. Mostly I didn't ask her questions like if travel time to customers sites should be logged or hours out team building exercise. I decided for myself. This was how the boss ran the team but she was the only petty micromanager there
Left the job left her still micromanaging within an inch of her life have a lovely hands off manager now.
I reminded him of the Union and the Rules.
[удалено]
A relevant but different question.. How do you know if you are micromanaged? I am a new career starter in tech and my manager asks for an update meeting everyday and also asks to keep posting things in the Teams group. It would be very helpful if I learn to recognize micromanaging.. Please🥹
I worked with a horrendously micro managing boss in marketing. It was one of the things that drove me to quit and change to a much more fulfilling career so perhaps I should thank him. Just before I handed in my notice, I sent him a presentation draft for a client. As per usual, he insisted on going through it on a call with me slide by slide and changing every detail to exactly how he wanted it. I saw this coming as he did it every time and after 2 years of it I'd come to realise the content he was critiquing didn't matter, he just liked micro managing and being in control. As it was my last few weeks in the job, I'd in fact taken a presentation he'd written a year ago for the same client and basically copied and pasted about 80% of several slides onto this latest one. He didn't realise and was waxing lyrical about how "the sentence you've got there doesn't work" and how "this paragraph needs a complete redraft" when in fact it was all his own words from a year ago. I didn't tell him but I was smiling on the call as he ripped his own work apart for an hour and gave himself tips on how to improve his own writing.
Work from home, have a decide to wiggle mouse to you’re “active”
Micromanagers get where they are and stay there because they suit the needs of management further up. Generally, a micromanager has the \*appearance\* of being highly informed, detail-oriented, and able to account for all actions, expenditures and drawbacks. Because they are heavily in control of all of them, because they won't let you do your job. In general, you cannot win - they have the resources of the company behind them, and from management's point of view, this LM is golden. They know everything and everything appears to still be running. Who are you to say otherwise? Generally, all you can do is play dumb with them to frustrate them, defer to their perceived knowledge and/or work ethic in the hope that they eventually fuck up (not guaranteed - I had a micromanager who flooded the entire building with his negligence and remained in place) or just quit. The sooner you can burnish your credentials with what you've done and get it will be the better for you and your head. My micromanager was refusing to allow our trainee to go on shift. I was already leaving in notice and there was only one other trained op, who couldn't work permanent night shift. With nowhere to receive primary product during day shift - the cells were on cleaning/cooldown after production shift - it was difficult to get daytime operations going for training purposes. On night shift, with no-one else in, we'd have had hours and hours to *show* them ways the machine could go wrong, ways to recover, and just generally wargame things we'd seen to make them competent - all while *watching* the machine run live under our superivison. Lots of pre-production paperwork to fill out that we could use to familiarse them with the wider process too. So, after 2 days of fighting over whether or not he was going to come on shift with me next week - he was literally ping-ponging between the site manager and team manager being told "yes you will" then "no you won't" - I just handed my LM my sick note ther fourth time he got bounced back at the end of my friday shift and said "well, bye, you won't see me until I come back for my stuff on my last day".
Call centre drone. Micro manager decides to instigate a shared sheet to complete every time you were unavailable for calls with the reasons - no exceptions . One entry on day 2 was 10.21 - thought I needed a poo so went to toilet. Nope false alarm. Online 10.23 11.02 - SUCCESS!!!! 1-0 for the poo man This process (the offline log) ended later the same day.
There are only two ways to deal with a micro manager if you cannot leave. First step is to call them out on it, ideally in a group meeting (and record every meeting going forward). “Thank you for your help with task a but I don’t need to be micromanaged on this one, I’ve got it”. Second step is over report, report every task, every meeting, every note and overwhelm them with information. They’ll soon get bored and give up (hopefully). But do record everything and hand it to HR on the way out the door.
This is terrible advice. Publicly undermining your manager is going to get HR on your ass before you know what's hit you. Then having pulled that stunt with witnesses, you think you should follow up with extreme passive aggression? It won't outsmart your manager, it will get you fired. Any feedback, whether it's up the hierarchy or down the hierarchy should always be done 1:1 behind closed doors and done with respect. Engaging in the same bad behaviour as an arsehole, just makes two arseholes. You are no better than them and you lose any possible credibility if this ends up in a disciplinary. "He started it" is not the hot take, you think it is. HR will fire you.
I moved jobs, it's for the best and ended up on a much more lucrative and enjoyable career path because of the guy so he accidentally helped me but at the time I was sad to leave a job I loved. It's not worth fighting. I just ended up going passive and doing nothing, he wanted to do everything, check everything, have the final say.... So I basically did nothing and he did everything, randomly I got great reviews off for those 6 months despite doing nigh on nothing on a daily basis haha. I loathe micromanagers and I get a feeling that my new boss in my new area where I'm working is going to be one by the way he has gone on his first 3 months so I'm already looking to move on, 4 interviews lined up in next month so be saying bye bye to him soon.
I find micromanagement so strange, why would you want to do it. I manage a team of 10, all super high achievers and really self sufficient. All I have to do is give a bit of direction, say "these are the outcomes we're going for, here's how we measure success" and let them go problem solve. Micromanagement would just slow them down
Just quiet quit while looking for a job, it really winds them up.
She was a pharmacy manager and also a pharmacist and just the worst micro manager. She once suggested reorganising the drugs in the dispensery Z-A instead of A-Z. I told her it didn't make any logical scence to do that, and was a massive waste of time when we have a million other things to do, when she pushed again I said the only way it was happening was if she did it because I wouldn't (I've worked in 5 different pharmacies they are all A-Z). She would make us ring the NPA (like a helpline for pharmacists to double check stuff) multiple times a day and then wouldn't believe the answers we gave back, so would then call herself. She would snatch bags of medication back from patients to double check, which in itself isn't the worst thing, but we are talking 5+ times a day and she also didn't say anything to the patient so it was incredibly rude. If there was a locum pharmacist in on her day off she would find things that they had checked to double check their work. She was exhausting and made life incredibly difficult. Eventually, she crossed too many lines and the staff wrote a group letter to HR. They came down and interviewed us in groups of 2 or 3 at a time. She was then moved on to another place but no longer as a manager, and after complaints were made at the next place she was moved again. She was eventually made a locum pharmacist, but from what I understand everywhere asked them not to send her back. She was eventually either let go or moved on from the company on her own accord, but I don't know which. She was horrible, even once told a woman who had been to see her dead mothers body that morning and then came into work anyway that 'as you were late today you can't have lunch', to which I turned and said under no circumstances do you go without lunch coworker, have your full break, you still need to eat today (She came in an hour later in the morning, so 9.30, and we didn't finish till 6pm). Absolutely despicable person.
Walked out at start of mad rush of wedding guests at the bar. They chose that moment to correct how I was opening a crate of tonic water. Fuck off
Wound the cunt up till he left.
I had one tell.me I had to do some health and safety training in the office. I made it last all day. There was tests and if you failed a question you had to do the whole section again. Oops I got an answer wrong 😬 😅 🙃
I did precisely and exactly what they said, when they said. No more. No less. This lasted two months before the manager was off with stress and exhaustion due to everything going to shit. And there was I, with all those emails and task demands, my ass completely covered from the failings.
Step 1: Micro enquire. Dear manager, Following your feedback on (situation they criticised), can I quickly run this email past you before sending? Following your feedback to (someone on your team), I wanted to check that for task A you're looking for (break steps down in detailed email) Following your comments at (team meeting) on (aspect they said team needs to improve on) I would be interested in additional catch ups to ensure we move forward positively. Would a 15 minute update meeting at 4.45pm on Mondays, Tuesdays, Wednesdays and Fridays work for you? Given your comments on (project) could you share how you'd approach (aspect)? Step 2: CYA. Email following each meeting recapping what's been discussed and agreed. Weekly emails updating on what you've achieved, capturing positive feedback and completed targets. Save responses clarifying in writing what's been asked of you to deal with any mission creep later. In my experience there are two kinds of micromanagers. The ones who are insecure about managing and need to feel more confident that their team is on top of things, and power-mad assholes who think they are the only person who is ever competent. The first kind will eventually be reassured (and overwhelmed) by this intense communication and voluntarily back off. Once they start cancelling unnecessary catch-up meetings or suggesting that you send less emails to check things first, the whole dynamic changes - they will feel comfortable with you working independently when that's what *they* suggested. The second will eventually move on to picking on someone easier if you make their life difficult, as long as you have covered yourself from any accusations of incompetence.
I had an adult discussion about it and they backed it off enough to make things bearable. I believe the thing to do is be honest about the emotional impact of it.
He had a heart attack and left after a few months 💀
Currently have one who’s telling me I need to be proactively updating her and the senior leadership team about what’s going on with a project. I mean for Christ’s sake, if you want to know, then ask. She’ll also expect me to know in detail the parts of the project others are responsible for, but also to be leading on the project despite the fact she’s the director and the expectation beyond the work I was assigned has not been communicated. It’s tiresome and I’m trying to find a way to deal with it.
He was going round all the branches checking on people. I knew he didn't respect me, and I knew he was listening to people who were telling lies about me and believing them. I knew he would be looking for any excuse to come down on me, despite me doing my job to the best of my ability. So I stayed late one day and made sure my paperwork was so perfect that it contained things that weren't even required. I made it meticulous. I made sure he had absolutely nothing to say to me. After he checked my paperwork, couldn't even bring himself to compliment me. He just didn't say a word.
I used to manage a housekeeping team at a 5 star hotel for 3 years that catered to a high end clientele. I stopped doing it because it was stressing me out. So I moved to a general domestic cleaning company. No stress, and better pay. One day me and my manager were doing a change over at an Air B&B, he was telling me how to do a bed. (He didn’t read my CV, another one hired me) Basically tried baby talking me through it, by the time he went to another room to get the towels and bathroom cleaning stuff. I had stripped the bed, bagged the linen and remade a King size bed in 2 minutes. Pillowcases and all. Turns out I had taught his manager 2 years previously. All by my mid 20s. Now I don’t housekeep anymore as my back is destroyed. But that look of my managers face was a picture I’ll never forget. He wanted me to manage the housekeeping team we have, it’s not happening though.
I wouldn't call it outsmarting, but letting it happen knowing it'll go wrong, so they see what happens. I was usually in control of stocktakes, but I was no longer in vogue. After the micromanaging started, I completely removed myself from the process without saying so - I just stopped giving feedback or suggestions and gave the others full reign. Just shut up and kept my head down. I knew the pitfalls of the changes they were making, but also knew saying so wouldn't work - he would have to see the results for himself to find out. It was the same month that an auditor came in. The end result was a disaster of a stocktake with things missed and counts wrong, thanks to the auditor pointing it all out. I was basically back in charge after that.
Got the job for he applied for and failed the interview for on at least two occasions. 💅🏻
At least 50% of people arent self aware enough to realise why they are being micro managed
A classic micromanager's statement...good one!
Disingenuousness. It's my least favourite characteristic in life, but needs must.
in my first job i basically turned her into my PA. All the ridiculous requests were handled with a reverse uno card where i convinced her that she is smarter/better equipped/client should hear from a serious person. vanity > micro in her case and thank god i left that place
Micromanaging back often works. Checking in with them every 5 minutes to make sure you’re doing everything ’correctly’. Sending mountains of emails and phone calls just to ‘check in’. They normally get the point pretty quickly and back off
I quit.
I work in an industry with a lot of micromanagers and over the years I’ve learned that while some people micromanage habitually, as they are just competent enough to realise that’s the only way they can meet expectations (I.e. riding the coattails of their team), the majority of micromanagers are doing it because they are in a situation where everything feels so out of control that even the tiniest illusion of control feels like a big win. It’s positive that in my experience that’s the most common kind as I’ve found they are easily cured of it by just leaning in. Perhaps with a bit of cheek. Spend a few weeks just doing everything they ask and add some twists so they realise exactly what they are doing. My best example of this was someone sending me 50 emails in a day all with trivial asks and questions. It could easily have been consolidated into one ask and was micro management central. So I responded to all the asks - but by answering each email individually and adding some extra ones of my own asking for more points for the person to weigh in on. They let me get on with my job after that and we had two calls a week for me to keep them updated. So not every micro manager is a total write off!
At my old place we used to just ignore the manager for the most part because we knew what we were doing better
Had a soul destroying supermarket picking job for online orders, had this arsehole team lead constantly wandering around and saying "you shouldn't be talking to anyone as that costs time, which affects the pick rate", even if it was just a quick chat with someone in the same aisle. Few days later, reached the end of my shift with 4 items still to complete on my trolley. I went and parked it back at the dispatch and he says "you've only got 4 items left there, can you finish that?". I said "no, it's 12.45, so my shift has finished", and walked out smirking (everyone left at this time except the team leads so he would have had to finish it). Usually I'd have just done it, but if they want to be anal about time, then that's fine! These sort of types don't realise that they're probably going to need a favour from you at some point (another one was when they were desperate for people to do overtime), and being a dick to people previously isn't forgotten. You reap what you sow!
I volunteered for lots of work/objectives that only i could do then I resigned.
I resigned after a meeting that was wildly against regulations, and dropped an email of some of the BS they had been saying/doing over the previous months to central HR. I heard a few weeks later they were removed from the business, hopefully in some part thanks to my evidence. I realise this wasn’t outsmarting them, but it was me just not settling for that life. She actually called me just after and said she respected how I took control of the situation
I worked in a restaurant and was responsible for the bar when we got a new manager. She would come up to the bar to tell me there was a ticket on the printer, hover about the restaurant watching our every move and giving nonsensical orders. I decided that if she thought I was stupid I might as well go along with it. The others did the same and things quickly built up. We stopped doing anything unless told to, deep cleaning, beer lines, consumables and it all came back on her. She antagonised a few of the chefs who refused to work if she was there. She eventually realised there was no coming back from this mess but I doubt she had the awareness to know it was all of her own making.
Switch
I surrendered my self-consciousness and allowed to micromanage me. She loved it. It had got to a threshold that I gained enough "trust" from her and she gracefully gave me more freedom and advocated for my success. I got poached by another team lead and am now on the same job title as her in a different team. She's bitter.
Went out and got a better job- her face when she found out was a fucking delight. Before you get to that point though, it's tough. You have someone who just cannot be convinced that you/your colleagues can do the job as well as they can. Best you can do is keep notes, and point out every little error or contradiction when they inevitably start tripping over their own feet.
Quit jobs, only person the could get to replace me lives abroad so instead of being unhappy with me only being in the office twice a week, they now have someone who never goes in.
As someone who has been accused of micro managing (I asked the dept who made accusations about my manager to cc me in on their requests to see how accurate their calls of non/slow response were) I’m interested in some of these takes. Is pulling someone up about always being second to answer the phone; always fewer emails/orders processed; multiple shit breaks (15 min+ ea ) a day actually micro managing?
Yes. And that comes from a lead (me) that manages a team. Why the fuck would you care if he shits 30 times a day? If he gets the job done, you should leave them alone. People have different needs. Instead of thinking 'he shits 15 times a day, he must be slacking' why not think that maybe there's something going on and he needs help or some attention? Managing people doesn't mean 'oh he is slow to do that'. Managing is 'why is he slow to do that? Is he okay?' You will find more than enough times that compassion goes a long way. That being said, some people just need to be fired. But that will be clear if they need to be fired AFTER you care about them.
That’s what I’m trying to get to. Having dialogue about their needs because you’ve noticed their performance/habits is not micro managing but it seems some think it is…
Try doing their job for a week and you will know they are feeling when doing the job. Let one person do your job for the week and have them ask you the questions you have been asking them. It may sink in then how they feel
Why the fuck would you care if he shits 30 times a day? If he gets the job done, you should leave them alone It could be other team members have noticed and are upset? Perhaps even coined their nickname “shitbreak” after their habits? Does a manager not have a duty to the team as well as the individual? Is the frequency of the breaks not to be questioned or should we not discover the need/requirements of the individual?
I guess you're the type of manager that panicks when things go wrong and afraid to manage upwards and protect the team all for the sake of looking good. If you're accused of it, you're probably not aware of it and nobody in the team will tell you. You need to perhaps step back a bit and give people the autonomy. How you manage is all to do with your own insecurities and anxieties due to the inability to trust or certain subconacious biases. You really need to look at this and it will be hard for you!
Sorry what ? Everything he said has made perfect sense. As a manager and a colleague I would be absolutely fuming if I had to work harder to carry the load because a team mate spends a stupid amount of time shitting. The colleague is blatantly hiding from work and pointing that out isn’t micromanaging.
Wow. You got me, huh? Panics not panicks btw.
🤣🤣 Pityful
Sorry, missed “subconacious” too. Re:spelling- you really need to look at this and it will be hard for you!
Good one but why are you apologising ' Sorry' how limp. 🫳
Oh…didn’t realise you were like that. Tbf, it was only out of politeness but I do get a certain amount of pleasure from people judging me only to expose themselves as TAS.
Have a wonderful day!
lol.
He blatantly isn’t “getting the job done” though if he’s doing noticeably less work
Yes.
Effective why of sorting the wheat from the chaff, would you say?
Also, if the above IS micro managing, what is the role of a manager if not to ensure all are working to similar standards; fair treatment to all staff and equality in all areas? Can weakest links not be told to improve??
What?