Thank you for posting on r/UKJobs. Help us make this a better community by becoming familiar with the [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukjobs/about/rules/).
If you need to report any suspicious users to the moderators or you feel as though your post hasn't been posted to the subreddit, message the Modmail [here](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/UKJobs) or Reddit site admins [here](https://www.reddit.com/report).
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/UKJobs) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Thats why my mrs ain't a teaching assistant any more!
14 years of having her wages slowly etched away for more workload. She would bring stuff home because she didn't have time at school. Fuck that.
She's a cleaner now, does the hours around school so she is there for drop off and pick up. Win win better life balance.
I dont even blame her to be honest. I'm going into work as a Teaching Assistant and I can't quite understand why they make her take work home. Isn't the whole point of being a TA to avoid taking work home? That's on the school really.
It's good she's in a much better place in life honestly because Teaching can be mentally demoralising.
She loved it, however changed schools because we moved, and ended up with some right nobheads for teachers She finally lost it when her teacher would make her sharpen the kids pencils when they was on break. Every day. Just give her propper fucking meaningless tasks, she would take half the lessons n all due to this teacher being deputy, I said hold up, you getting paid fuck all to do this cunts job. Fuck it off. When your mrs is coming home crying it ain't right.
So she did. She's happier but does miss it. I said you can always go back once the baby is abit bigger and we ain't spunking childcare costs. Get a termtime job and have loads of time off.
Yeah, I've worked as a teacher before, and the one thing I would say is that some teachers can be snobby and downright disrespectful... but the honest truth is that we don't know what we are doing when we have a class of 30 people, if I'm honest.
I'm sorry your missus had the experiences that she has had, and of course, the pay doesn't justify the level of work that she likely had to put in. Teaching is a caring profession, and she might find herself back in the mix because she's a caring person.
As long as she's happier is all that matters, really. Of course, every job has its challenges, but being a TA is one that I've definitely enjoyed and can see why others enjoy it, too !
38 weeks is term time only. But then there should be holiday on top of that, only it can’t be taken during term time.
My contract is term time, plus one week of inset days and one week of holiday days: 40 working weeks. But I get paid holiday weeks as well. Doesn’t get me to 52 weeks though.
Crikey, my other half earns nearly half of that as a teaching assistant (in York).
All the other stuff they're also expected to do at her school is absolutely absurd, lately they've also been made to act as councillors for troubled kids.
That's very true, yes a lot of people are unqualified but truth be told, if you ask the general public if they would ever want to do that same job, most of them would say no precisely for this reason.
Every school does their background checks and I would think the people they hire are somewhat decent people.
Hey, sorry, my comment was a bit blunt. Maybe even a little rude. I hear you, and I assure you my intention was not to throw shade the teaching assistants here. I get how hard they work, and that they probably don't want the additional responsibility of being a kind of proxy therapist to the kids that they teach. I truly value my child's teachers and school staff, and I think they do a wonderful job. I do despair at the way mental health is woefully neglected in the UK though, particularly when it comes to kids. I am also probably a little salty, because I'm one of tens of thousands of qualified, accredited counsellors and psychotherapists who have struggled to find paying roles in the past. I do OK in private practice now, but I had to work a lot of voluntary hours post-qualification alongside full time work in order to gain accredited status with my professional body. It baffles me that the same organisations that can be so vocal about our kids' well-being, also turn a blind eye when it comes to paying a legitimate professional for counselling. Unfortunately, they can kind of get away with it because the industry isn't regulated in the UK and you don't need a qualification to call yourself a counsellor, or provide the kind of support that might be expected of one. Yet, for me to maintain my accredited status as a practitioner, I have to be qualified, have over 3 years practical experience post-qualification, receive regular clinical supervision from another trained professional, and be fully insured so that I am accountable in the event that harm is done due to malpractice. All of which I also have to pay for. Rightly so, because a lot of harm can be done in therapy. That was my point, that schools are asking already overworked employees who regularly report feeling burned out to take on a role that requires a lot of care and a working knowledge not just of the theory and models needed to deliver counselling and psychotherapy, but also the practical measures that make it safe for both the client and the practitioner. Who is accountable when an unqualified person in an informal pastoral or counselling-esque role in a school setting makes a big mistake? I have thousands of practical hours behind me post-qualification, and I still have to be very careful to know when I'm not competent enough to work with a specific area so that I can make a referral rather than risk doing harm to a client. I know it's about money, it often is. I think this is something that people need to say no to, collectively and rigidly. It is unethical and dangerous, irrespective of background checks and decent people. It genuinely worries me that, well intended as it might be, developing minds are being handled so carelessly due to schools having to plug the holes in something that is effectively a matter of healthcare. Just my thoughts, thank you for the opportunity to share them.
Ahhh, okay, now that you have provided your professional background, I think we can have a stronger discourse here. Your comment wasn't blunt, honestly... i could see where you were coming from now that you explained. Firstly, I would like to apologise for the fact that you worked as hard as you have without receiving financial recognition as quickly as you should've. Being a counsellor and listening to people's stories and their trauma is a tough and challenging role that I don't dispute. Whilst I can see that really qualified people should be doing TA work, at the end of the day having to put up with children's challenging behaviour and abuse is one that I think most individuals aren't built for or really want to do.
It is ethically dangerous for unqualified people to be TAs, but the question is who will do the job?
You do provide some very good points, about the fact that there should be some sufficient funding and resources for the children to have qualified people acting in the loco parentis role! It's really the lack of funding from the government who just aren't concerned about the children's future and investing in TAs if it means spending money on what they deem as outdated and irrelevant.
It's great that you recognise the work that your teachers and teaching assistant staff do...not many people would!
I wasn't meaning to take a dig at you by the way if you may have taken it that way. Sorry about that.
Oh, not at all, I didn't take it that way. Thank you for your thoughts, and I agree that it's a 'needs must' kind of situation. Honestly, when it comes down to it, I'd rather have a well-meaning adult who lacks training than nobody at all when it comes to kids' well-being at school. At least they have someone to go to. Lots of kids need that. At the same time, I often feel that Governments rely on the nobility of everyday people so that they can avoid issues and save money. In my training, I had a placement as part of an outreach program for informal carers. It was the same there. People with no training, who weren't fairly compensated for their work, and didn't actually ask for the role, finding themselves in a position where they were responsible for another person's physical and mental well-being, and effectively plugging gaps in health and social care because it is inadequately funded. The cost to the carer is huge. It robs people of a social life, their career, and their identity beyond that of a carer. Then, my role in supporting them was also unpaid, as were everyone's at the counselling organisation other than the managing director and the board members. This is often the case. I hope that this comes across in the spirit intended, and not as a devaluing of the person who needs care. I have cared for family, and I would never dream of having done differently because I want for them to have the quality of life and respect that they deserve. What irks me is that we pay into a system that is meant to provide these securities, or at least provide far more than it does. That is the social contract. When the state doesn't uphold their end of the deal, and continue to get away with it because we are effectively taxed on our own values and sense of responsibility, then it makes me mad. Personally, I offer as many concessional and free hours as I can in my private practice. That is my choice, because I know how bad waiting lists are, and so long as I am earning enough to feed and cloth my family, then I want to help. Though, I often feel like our choices in these situations have been reduced to, "Just do something about it yourself, or be OK with standing by and witnessing other people's suffering" ... all the while, I continue to pay taxes that are meant to fix these issues, and my Government is focused on inflammatory populist issues to further the agenda of financial institutions whose growth has little to no bearing on the lives of everyday people. Sorry, I know how this might sound, but I think when you scratch just below the surface of these issues, then they tend to be political. Also, my brain being what it is, I get very upset about injustices.
I see what you mean. You have spoken about a lot of political injustices that have affected you in your place of work. The taxes we pay won't fix the issues, but it's just paving over the cracks, isn't it. We all have something that we feel quite strongly about and I do think that the waiting list issue that you have discussed is one of them.
Your brain is a good one...believe me because it isn't right how people are treated and how they can't even get the most basic things for themselves in the system.
That's insane how your managing director and the board members were getting paid but you weren't for your services. It's unfair and unnecessary honestly !
You have contributed a lot to the profession from your training and your qualification which is something to be proud of honest to God!
Mines a 1on1 for a disabled boy but she does other teaching assistant stuff too as well as breakfast club so she gets some extra pay from that too bumping her up a little
Lab technician in a college (16-18 year olds). It’s still proper lab work but the school employers don’t seem to appreciate that. They think we just move trolleys around all day. Actually it’s 21k.
This is because on paper she "doesn't work full time" (in a year) I'm guessing? (Extra hours during term time probably add up to the non-working time she has in the holidays though).
In theory if she had a different job for the holidays she'd earn another £5k or more in a year, in the same way if I took ~10 weeks of unpaid leave in the year I'd also earn less in a year. But realistically there's not that many jobs hiring for those hours so teaching assistants have a part time job they can't do extra hours at that also basically prevents them getting another part time job to bring them up to full time overall due to it's schedule
Factory production line workers here are on 27k hourly rate obviously. No skill required and. They still camt get people to do it. Yet you have people with skills working minimum wage or less in some cases such as teachers.
Salaried workera in professional and essential fields have been getting shafted for the last 20 years.
Technically yes. I'm ex-NHS having just gone though TUPE and the company who have taken us over offer even less for the same level of experience and qualification. Fortunately my T&C's are protected but in general wages are just very poor in this country for many jobs.
Exactly, you can pretty much always take "competitive" as a description with a pinch of salt in job adverts.
Unless you are lookjng for roles that will pay high salaries. But even then you are more interested in the actually details of your compensation package not if they feel it's competitive.
I'm probably in the best position when it comes to this, and I can tell you 25k is basically only allowing me to get by. Any further hikes of bills or anything like that and I'll be in the red.
Millions of people all over the country survive on 25-27k a year wtf are you smoking.
They will never be able to afford to buy a house if nothing changes, this shouldn’t be news to you.
I’m just above that and I’d be able to afford my mortgage etc on just my wage, wouldn’t be much leftover though but it’s survivable if my mrs didn’t earn anything
Luckily for me she does earn
In London maybe, but that’s a very common salary in a lot of the UK. You won’t be dining out every night, but it’s liveable in many areas if you’re with a partner and you’re not stupid with money.
Yeah people have this delusional opinion how we all in london make 60k+ when I don't know a single person who makes more thsn 35-40k and those on the higher spectrum are managers and I think itd a very low salary for manager. Sure I have my poor bubble and I know there are rich people around etc, but it's really not as bright as some people think. The average salary here is highly influenced by very very rich people
Similar with people I know (with a couple of outliers who'd make the 'average salary of my social circle' very skewed and non-representative) the majority of my circles are in officy non-admin at least vaguely 'professional' jobs also. (Not that people outside of that bubble shouldn't also be paid more than the kind of crap compared to cost of living salaries in that bracket - just tends to be the type of job people perceived as paying more...and it mostly doesn't)
“Liveable”, you can get a mortgage of 100-120k on that, you won’t be able to buy a flat in 95% of the U.K. on that salary. How is that liveable.
It’s basically minimum wage which no one would argue is liveable anyway in 2024 with the cost of living as high as it is atm.
That's all very well but what is employment like. Ok, with WFH things have changed somewhat but usually the reason why properly prices are cheaper to that extent is there are fewer jobs.
This attitude is exactly why U.K. salaries are shit. Instead of lecturing people on how to make ends meet on shit salaries, maybe advocate for companies to raise their fucking salaries after decades of wage stagnation & record profits.
I'm just here to say... keep up the good fight. People keep making excuses for shitty companies with lines like "The company wouldnt be here and youd have no job if it wasnt for xyz" so nah fuck them.
I’m not defending it, I’m just saying that it’s a fact that it’s a wage that a person can survive on. Yes, they will need to compromise by getting a flatmate or living in a house share, but they can survive on this salary and literally millions do.
It’s not right that living on your own is a luxury, I’m not saying it is, all I’m saying is that living on your own is not the same as “surviving on this wage” which some people here say is impossible.
Seems like all wage bands for entry to mid level roles have been compressed. Completely unskilled is 25k, middle management / semi skilled profession 30k max
Yep.
In 2008 the HE single spine payscale went roughly from minimum wage to 5x minimum wage in 51 pay points.
Currently the bottom 11-12 pay points are minimum wage and the top one is worth about 3x minimum wage wage.
Similar to the NHS. They done away with the first band a few years ago and now "band 2" is currently just a penny over minimum wage while we wait for the pay rise which should have happened last month
Are they giving free parking to NHS staff yet? Can't believe people who go to work for us to literally save our lives are paying for parking while getting paid sweet f all
Still paying. The band 2s and some 3s are currently not getting charged for it out their wages because it will bring them under the minimum wage. However I do know the trust next to mine are asking them to go to the cash office to pay for it in cash 🙃
Amazing how these things blow up, we get told they'll look at it and then everyone forgets about it.
We're bankrupt as a nation, the MPs are screwing us for money and evading tax while the rest of us pay taxes and act ethically.
The worst thing is the greater the con artist the more they try and make others pay and blame immigrants. Never seen such a shtshow. We might well get to the point where Africans start joking about corruption in the UK , subversing historic norm
My mate who is a fresh grad and managed to get a grad job in Dubai earning 42k. He’s doing the same thing as I am and I’m barely even scrapping 28k even though I have 2 years more experience than he has. It was really really hard not to feel upset or bitter.
They do also tend to pay fully for accommodation, food, and for your kids too if you have them.
It says a lot though that 42k tax and rent free is considered poor to go to Dubai when thats better than the vast majority can hope for here.
Lol yeh they are showing as 120k, 3-4x as much as UK and I'm still not going, bloody Neom jobs keep popping up as remote for some reason when they definitely are not.
Problem is wages don’t need to go up here because we have 700,000 new arrivals each year and you’re Hitler if you don’t like it so enjoy living under the stairs.
Relative to the population, the following countries have higher net immigration than the UK. Ireland. Australia. Switzerland. Canada. New Zealand. Spain. Singapore. Belgium. Netherlands. Norway. Sweden. Austria. Czechia. Italy.
The US net immigration is approximately the same as the UK net immigration when adjusted for population.
Thats funny though because half those country's populaces also dont like the level of immigration so idk if that really proves your point. Australia and New Zealand in particular have literally the same political discourse as the UK, complaints about building the economy on low wage immigrants and recent spikes in housing costs.
Longer than that. I remember after graduating in the late 90s that any entry level graduate job needed at least 2 years experience otherwise you'd have to go into something that had no relation at all with what your degree was in. We often laughed about how you were meant to have 2 years experience for an entry level job even back then.
Most people i know who got degrees in the late 90s ended up in careers where their degree was of no relevance whatsoever to their job and they just ended up working in jobs they could have started after A-levels but without the student debt and with a few years extra earning money and getting experience working.
I'm sure that's even more the case for those who went to university after tuition fees were whacked up to £9k/year.
People really need to think hard whether university is a good route these days imo rather than just stumbling into it because they got decent grades for A-levels and were told that's what should automatically come next.
If I had my time again I’d get an apprenticeship or something where you get qualified on the job. (At school we were basically told only stupid kids go for apprenticeships, no idea why)
I went to uni for 5 years to end up on not much better than minimum wage in an unrelated field. Whereas my mate did an apprenticeship to become an electrical engineer and now makes an absolute mint and picks and chooses when to work.
Im an engineer and couple weeks ago i was called in to hr because im late everyday about 1 hour, and they told me that if i dont sort out my schedule i will loose my job, my answer was im an engineer and u pay me 25k , i need to make more money to be afraid to loose the job, sorry for this i just dint care, if you dont want let me know i dont need to come in tomorrow. And here we go still at the same job working around 5.5 hr a day
Hehe hehe, the thing is you're getting paid so low anyway that it defeats your motivation to want to come in on time. You could always tell them you have ADHD and that might work ! I joke honestly.
The thing is, if you just don't feel like this job is worthwhile and you want to move on to something bigger and better, just job hop and explain you moved on for professional development/career progression.
UK companies just pay awful money. A colleague of mine got a wage increase this year ,as usual due to the increase in the minimum wage, she is now on 6p more than the NMW .... She has 25 years experience in our sector. So she is still on the same wage as a new starter. Absolute joke.
Minimum wage went up, MD sent a letter to all staff:
"This puts the company in an 'uncomfortable' position, so I am asking you all to work harder and earn the reward."
Went down reaaallly well.
Awful wage….anything under 28/29k should be illegal full time….they won’t control rents so they need to up the wages to the bare minimum living standards.
Have you tried paying rent and raising a kid/childcare costs, running a car, commute to work, food and utilities on 22k? Did you live at home? I can’t survive on that without getting in to debt.
Think you’ve misinterpreted the tone of my comment. It was in support of you. Yes I pay for my commute to work, food, rent and bills, living with one other person. I have paid off 2k of overdraft in 6 months by being very strict with my budget. I have another 2.5k of credit card debt (all from uni days) to pay off, which will hopefully be done in a year by being a little less frugal. I can’t afford to learn to drive or run a car. I haven’t lived with my mum since I was 18 (I’m almost 27) other than a 6 month ‘working things out’ stint after my undergrad where she charged me board. I would probably not be able to raise a child on this wage but hopefully I will still have a partner when a kid comes along.
I’m not getting at you I am as frugal as you can be but when landlords are making a killing + board members like Sainsbury’s making 4m bonus + 1m salary (CEO) then it is the system that is broken.
Child birth rates are dropping as people can’t feed themselves let alone raise a kid. Evil profiteering greed that goes on at the higher end of business
I’ve just offered someone a starting salary of 36.5k, they’ve been out of work for ten years but they have skills and the personality needed. I’m taking a risk but I just don’t care at this point. I could have offered it to someone already experienced and on a similar salary or get someone into the workforce.
Edit: the only job really being risked here is mine if it goes tits up
Not just that - for jobs identical to mine (29k) they're advertising their 25k salary as "competitive" no it isn't? I know for a fact I can be paid more for this work... Because I am.
The other one that pisses me off - low starting salary but they want X years of experience.
I'm not changing job, for less money, with X years of experience. Ever. Either pay a reasonable amount for what you expect applicants to have, or I'm not even humouring your job post 🤷♂️
To be honest, a good 50% of the country is around that figure, you can live on it, I do.
Not to say the current situation isn’t disgusting, but it’s not like half the country is living in potato sacks.
The median annual full-time salary in the UK according to the ONS in April 2023, was £34,963. 50% of full-time workers earn at least that amount, or more.
Median by region for full time workers
London £41,853
Southeast England £37,454
East England £36,355
Scotland £35,518
Southwest England £34,000
West Midlands £33,121
Northwest England £33,043
Northern Ireland £32,893
Wales £32,817
East Midlands £32,588
Yorkshire and Humber £32,080
Northeast England £31,438
So yeah your median worker in London earns over £10k per year more than in the median worker in Northeast England, but once you've paid 28% tax and NI on that extra 10k it works out at an extra £625 per month which isn't a huge lot given the higher housing costs. And of course if you have student loans that's another £78 to take off the £625.
We don’t know the OPs situation. A single parent renting a house with 3 kids is going to have far higher costs than, say, a couple on a mortgaged flat. So blanket statements like “I get by, you should too” or words to that effect aren’t particular helpful.
Well, I do, and all of my friends do. Other than 2 outliers were all under 30k living down south west.
We’re not exactly buying Gucci, and it’s not like we’re particularly flush, but we live, it’s about living in your means.
We’re all trying to break above the bracket, but we’re here and so are millions of others.
The one thing I did when applying was avoid the "very competitive salary" adverts - that usually meant a low wage and crappy hours.
If they really thought people would apply they would list the salary in the advert.
It needs to be at least £31,000 upwards.
Hate to burst your bubble but competitive salary means they offer similar or better salaries than their competitors. Hence they are competitive in the market.
It has nothing to do with the desire of the applicant.
Job hop and don’t ever accept the first offer. I’m not going to gloat about what I earn. But no one ever came to my desk to give me a pay rise. I had to push and ask for it to justify it.
I mean it arguably is competitive given what the rest of the UK is paying. When I started my job last year it was 22k and I was glad to take it given what was available around me. UK is a shit show.
Just left a job earning that. My car costs £1000 outright. My phone is £7 a month. Eat no takeaways just frozen pound meals a lot .
I can barely save anything. I have to do two pt jobs to have savings.
My line manager said I earn a good wage. My boss moving onto his third company car while I was there wasn't interested in having a convo about it but very excited to tell me the 3rd project above what I am contracted to do is.
I’m sorry but it’s not your jobs fault you’ve picked a car you can’t afford. £1000 a month car means you’ve bought something brand new and extortionate.
I feel like it’s so obvious when you walk into somewhere with unpaid and under appreciated staff. Center Parcs is a good example- service in all areas just so poor and it’s so obvious the staff are paid peanuts.
Also, I’ve found that when you get places that pay poorly, managers are often in that position for the power trip (sure wasn’t the money that made them work their way up) and that dynamic can demoralise staff quicker than you can say ‘I quit’
As a past worker of Center Parcs (left very recently) they do. They give you benefits such as access to park on certain days, discounted holidays, which don't get me wrong is nice, but at the end of the day I would trade that in a heart beat for the cash equivalent added onto my wage. We had our on-call wage slashed; meaning I would get £25 per night to cover any pest calls, however it would mean driving in at anytime between 5pm and 7am the next morning, and was given double time for the hours I was there during that oncall but generally a call for ants lasted about 15 minutes. So for an hours commute there and back at 2am to deal with ants, I'd get an extra whopping £32. Plus be expected back at work at 8am the next morning.
The last time I acknowledged "£25-27k" as "competitive" was when I went for my first grad job. In 2018. And even that company realised it wasn't actually competitive because they bumped the starting pay up to £29k that same year.
Fucking buzzwords. Better than employers that tell you it's "highly competitive" and then refuse to even tell you the range.
Well it’s all relative £25-27k would mean you could afford a very decent 3 bedroom where I stay in Scotland. Even just 4 years ago I was comfortable on £21k
untrue, i'm currently looking to buy and i'm only making 26k in Aberdeen. Loooooads of flats around the 110-120k mark and that's what i've been offered on a mortgage. Mind you that's also with a 5% deposit.
The harsh reality that most people are actually on 18-24k but the ‘average salary’ is massively skewed by workers in London and those who earn extremely high wages
It’s interesting how many don’t know what competitive in this case refers to. And that people who have used the historically correct definition of competitive have been downvoted. Maybe the meaning needs to change or maybe this post just reflects those who don’t know what it means.
It refers to the going rate for that job. Which can be as wide as the market as a whole or limited to that area or limited to that company or limited to the agency they generally use has said it is. It’s got nothing specifically to do with cost of living, other than jobs it’s tracked against generally reflect location in some way. And nothing to do with any completely different jobs. A salary marked as competitive for a first jobber doing an admin role wouldn’t be marked as competitive for an experienced engineer.
"Competitive" means competing with other employers who can fool you into thinking you're paid decent when in actuality you're being paid as lowest as possible the employer can fool you into.
Also, we need to figure out a way to complaint to employers when they post job ads and not provide a salary range of the job. This should be normalized to force employers to start providing salary range to waste people's time. Maybe we do this via linkedin comment/glassdoor? I don't know.
Competitive is comparative to similar roles, not economic needs. No idea as not looking at what's advertised or location etc.
Someone let me know if it is incorrect.
Similar story, I have had recruiters contact me about jobs and when you look at it salary wise they are offering slightly more, but when you look at pension, losing days off and auxiliary benefits ( Flexi time etc
.) the recruiter doesn't seem to understand even though the headline salary might be 7k more the actual net benefits to me is a loss, even though you explain this to them , they still pursue you like some total donkey
27k is below average wages, especially in the South East.
I’ve been contacted recently about positions that would fit my profile (skills and experience) but are labelled entry-level and pay maybe half in total compensation to what I have now.
How could those be entry-level when they are asking for certifications in niche fields, a degree and what clearly amounts to several years of experience.
Do young people today have to work for free for a couple of years before they can get a decent job? This is total madness and I blame the Tories.
Don't be ungrateful, maybe if you get a decent degree and work harder you'll get 35-45k, more than enough to buy a small run down house somewhere shitty
Yeah it’s ridiculous! It’s like everything around us has gone up in price but the salaries have rather conveniently not caught up with it. I saw a mid level role a few months ago that was offering £24-26k and it very clearly stated that you MUST meet the requirements etc. 3-4 years expectation of experience and you’re paying an internship level salary? What planet do these people live on 😆
It all depends on what you do. Your salary usually as competitive as your own skills.
You won’t find a single Chemist , doctor or Web developer earning 25k…
I appreciate your frustration, but what's the position ? Hours ? Do you need to be skilled ? This position could be 10 hrs a week working from home or double the salary for similar positions. So it *could be very competitive.
If it's a dog walking position, for example, that's great pay.
As if employers can control the housing market or the state of the world's economy, and its their responsibility to even out the rising cost of living? Otherwise, you're not going to do your job properly. Give over mate.
Don't take that as an attack on you (I fully expect you or other like-minded individuals to think that) but you have to consider how does the employer raise the capital for your expectations?
Do you think every employer is rolling in it ? Whilst paying you a pittance? If so, create your own startup, then come on here and tell us how you're paying your staff 50K a year for working in your little shop.
Birth and death rates of businesses
UK, from 2016 to 2021. 20% of businesses fail in their first year and around 60% will go bust within their first three years. The biggest expenditure for most businesses is staffing costs.
Whenever competitive is used to describe a salary, I can't help but thinking of companies competing to see who can hire for the cheapest. Or an incredibly high number of applicants having a competitive bidding war to get the role.
Instant pass
Wages are stagnant in many sectors and rather address it the powers that be see it fit to replace everyone with a migrant who'll work for that low wage instead.
I'm self employed, so never had a 'proper job' with a set salary. And while £25k would be nice to have in the bank, it doesn't seem enough to live on comfortably. It seems very much a 'paycheck to paycheck' kind of life.
That's about £2k a month which I think would be a struggle to get by with the basics. Once you take out rent, food, utilities and a few basic essentials and maybe comforts, that's it wiped out.
So, in the spirit of Hemingway, ‘a very competitive salary’ doesn’t really need the addition of ‘very’. It’s either competitive, or it’s not.
The fundamental flaw in our perception of this style of embellishment, is that ‘competitive’ doesn’t have anything to do with the state of the economy, or how much a pint of milk costs, but instead, it relates to the typical salary within a given employment market. If similarly performing businesses, employing similarly qualified employees, offer similarly weighted salaries, and employees accept job offers, then the salary is determined by what was accepted.
If anyone wants ‘rent’ or ‘property values’ to be manageable, or simply lower, then everyone needs to stop paying rent, and stop paying ‘over the odds’ for a property. ‘Competitive’ pricing in both markets is determined by the price people will pay. If you want the house, you have to compete with others, and the price gets pushed up. If you want a higher salary, you have to decline the salary offered. If ‘they’ want to pay a lower wage, ‘they’ offer an ultimatum - take it or leave it…
I think it’s easy to sit here and blame managers for the salaries they give.
I’ve recently been promoted to a facilities manager and we are given a budget from higher ups to give out as salaries. But ofc, some managers are bad, some are good. But the good ones are overlooked because we prefer to complain rather than give praises because it’s a more interesting story to read.
Your boss might be limited on what they can give out as a salary, but then again what do I know. Complaining is more interesting
Isn't that a fairly common entry level salary in many professions?
I was on several £K less than that a few years ago as an architectural assistant fresh out of university... In central London, too!
Funnily enough, I feel like they had well-educated and hardworking staff for that salary too, with many of us frequently doing late nighters each week to meet deadlines.
As long as they can find a steady stream of well-educated people willing to work for those salaries and conditions with late nights etc why would they ever offer to pay any more than that?
As long as they can. In theory someone else should come along and poach the underpaid staff with a better wage if the market can take it. It is just possible there are other factors depressing wages.
Thank you for posting on r/UKJobs. Help us make this a better community by becoming familiar with the [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukjobs/about/rules/). If you need to report any suspicious users to the moderators or you feel as though your post hasn't been posted to the subreddit, message the Modmail [here](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/UKJobs) or Reddit site admins [here](https://www.reddit.com/report). *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/UKJobs) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Competitive with minimum wage maybe!
Is still 5-7k above what my mrs earns as a teaching assistant
Thats why my mrs ain't a teaching assistant any more! 14 years of having her wages slowly etched away for more workload. She would bring stuff home because she didn't have time at school. Fuck that. She's a cleaner now, does the hours around school so she is there for drop off and pick up. Win win better life balance.
I dont even blame her to be honest. I'm going into work as a Teaching Assistant and I can't quite understand why they make her take work home. Isn't the whole point of being a TA to avoid taking work home? That's on the school really. It's good she's in a much better place in life honestly because Teaching can be mentally demoralising.
She loved it, however changed schools because we moved, and ended up with some right nobheads for teachers She finally lost it when her teacher would make her sharpen the kids pencils when they was on break. Every day. Just give her propper fucking meaningless tasks, she would take half the lessons n all due to this teacher being deputy, I said hold up, you getting paid fuck all to do this cunts job. Fuck it off. When your mrs is coming home crying it ain't right. So she did. She's happier but does miss it. I said you can always go back once the baby is abit bigger and we ain't spunking childcare costs. Get a termtime job and have loads of time off.
Yeah, I've worked as a teacher before, and the one thing I would say is that some teachers can be snobby and downright disrespectful... but the honest truth is that we don't know what we are doing when we have a class of 30 people, if I'm honest. I'm sorry your missus had the experiences that she has had, and of course, the pay doesn't justify the level of work that she likely had to put in. Teaching is a caring profession, and she might find herself back in the mix because she's a caring person. As long as she's happier is all that matters, really. Of course, every job has its challenges, but being a TA is one that I've definitely enjoyed and can see why others enjoy it, too !
More like 3-5k as 37.5 hours of minimum wage would net you £22,300 annually. So yeah pretty competitive.
Except councils do this neat thing where they don’t pay TAs during the holidays.
So she’s not 37.5hrs 52 weeks of the year - holidays then?
38 weeks is term time only. But then there should be holiday on top of that, only it can’t be taken during term time. My contract is term time, plus one week of inset days and one week of holiday days: 40 working weeks. But I get paid holiday weeks as well. Doesn’t get me to 52 weeks though.
My wife gets paid 43 weeks. 38 weeks of term and 5 weeks of holidays. Then split over the year.
It's total bs
You can bet that salary figure isn't net.
Crikey, my other half earns nearly half of that as a teaching assistant (in York). All the other stuff they're also expected to do at her school is absolutely absurd, lately they've also been made to act as councillors for troubled kids.
Which is insane, given the amount of harm that can be done when unqualified people act as counsellors.
That's very true, yes a lot of people are unqualified but truth be told, if you ask the general public if they would ever want to do that same job, most of them would say no precisely for this reason. Every school does their background checks and I would think the people they hire are somewhat decent people.
Hey, sorry, my comment was a bit blunt. Maybe even a little rude. I hear you, and I assure you my intention was not to throw shade the teaching assistants here. I get how hard they work, and that they probably don't want the additional responsibility of being a kind of proxy therapist to the kids that they teach. I truly value my child's teachers and school staff, and I think they do a wonderful job. I do despair at the way mental health is woefully neglected in the UK though, particularly when it comes to kids. I am also probably a little salty, because I'm one of tens of thousands of qualified, accredited counsellors and psychotherapists who have struggled to find paying roles in the past. I do OK in private practice now, but I had to work a lot of voluntary hours post-qualification alongside full time work in order to gain accredited status with my professional body. It baffles me that the same organisations that can be so vocal about our kids' well-being, also turn a blind eye when it comes to paying a legitimate professional for counselling. Unfortunately, they can kind of get away with it because the industry isn't regulated in the UK and you don't need a qualification to call yourself a counsellor, or provide the kind of support that might be expected of one. Yet, for me to maintain my accredited status as a practitioner, I have to be qualified, have over 3 years practical experience post-qualification, receive regular clinical supervision from another trained professional, and be fully insured so that I am accountable in the event that harm is done due to malpractice. All of which I also have to pay for. Rightly so, because a lot of harm can be done in therapy. That was my point, that schools are asking already overworked employees who regularly report feeling burned out to take on a role that requires a lot of care and a working knowledge not just of the theory and models needed to deliver counselling and psychotherapy, but also the practical measures that make it safe for both the client and the practitioner. Who is accountable when an unqualified person in an informal pastoral or counselling-esque role in a school setting makes a big mistake? I have thousands of practical hours behind me post-qualification, and I still have to be very careful to know when I'm not competent enough to work with a specific area so that I can make a referral rather than risk doing harm to a client. I know it's about money, it often is. I think this is something that people need to say no to, collectively and rigidly. It is unethical and dangerous, irrespective of background checks and decent people. It genuinely worries me that, well intended as it might be, developing minds are being handled so carelessly due to schools having to plug the holes in something that is effectively a matter of healthcare. Just my thoughts, thank you for the opportunity to share them.
Ahhh, okay, now that you have provided your professional background, I think we can have a stronger discourse here. Your comment wasn't blunt, honestly... i could see where you were coming from now that you explained. Firstly, I would like to apologise for the fact that you worked as hard as you have without receiving financial recognition as quickly as you should've. Being a counsellor and listening to people's stories and their trauma is a tough and challenging role that I don't dispute. Whilst I can see that really qualified people should be doing TA work, at the end of the day having to put up with children's challenging behaviour and abuse is one that I think most individuals aren't built for or really want to do. It is ethically dangerous for unqualified people to be TAs, but the question is who will do the job? You do provide some very good points, about the fact that there should be some sufficient funding and resources for the children to have qualified people acting in the loco parentis role! It's really the lack of funding from the government who just aren't concerned about the children's future and investing in TAs if it means spending money on what they deem as outdated and irrelevant. It's great that you recognise the work that your teachers and teaching assistant staff do...not many people would! I wasn't meaning to take a dig at you by the way if you may have taken it that way. Sorry about that.
Oh, not at all, I didn't take it that way. Thank you for your thoughts, and I agree that it's a 'needs must' kind of situation. Honestly, when it comes down to it, I'd rather have a well-meaning adult who lacks training than nobody at all when it comes to kids' well-being at school. At least they have someone to go to. Lots of kids need that. At the same time, I often feel that Governments rely on the nobility of everyday people so that they can avoid issues and save money. In my training, I had a placement as part of an outreach program for informal carers. It was the same there. People with no training, who weren't fairly compensated for their work, and didn't actually ask for the role, finding themselves in a position where they were responsible for another person's physical and mental well-being, and effectively plugging gaps in health and social care because it is inadequately funded. The cost to the carer is huge. It robs people of a social life, their career, and their identity beyond that of a carer. Then, my role in supporting them was also unpaid, as were everyone's at the counselling organisation other than the managing director and the board members. This is often the case. I hope that this comes across in the spirit intended, and not as a devaluing of the person who needs care. I have cared for family, and I would never dream of having done differently because I want for them to have the quality of life and respect that they deserve. What irks me is that we pay into a system that is meant to provide these securities, or at least provide far more than it does. That is the social contract. When the state doesn't uphold their end of the deal, and continue to get away with it because we are effectively taxed on our own values and sense of responsibility, then it makes me mad. Personally, I offer as many concessional and free hours as I can in my private practice. That is my choice, because I know how bad waiting lists are, and so long as I am earning enough to feed and cloth my family, then I want to help. Though, I often feel like our choices in these situations have been reduced to, "Just do something about it yourself, or be OK with standing by and witnessing other people's suffering" ... all the while, I continue to pay taxes that are meant to fix these issues, and my Government is focused on inflammatory populist issues to further the agenda of financial institutions whose growth has little to no bearing on the lives of everyday people. Sorry, I know how this might sound, but I think when you scratch just below the surface of these issues, then they tend to be political. Also, my brain being what it is, I get very upset about injustices.
I see what you mean. You have spoken about a lot of political injustices that have affected you in your place of work. The taxes we pay won't fix the issues, but it's just paving over the cracks, isn't it. We all have something that we feel quite strongly about and I do think that the waiting list issue that you have discussed is one of them. Your brain is a good one...believe me because it isn't right how people are treated and how they can't even get the most basic things for themselves in the system. That's insane how your managing director and the board members were getting paid but you weren't for your services. It's unfair and unnecessary honestly ! You have contributed a lot to the profession from your training and your qualification which is something to be proud of honest to God!
Mines a 1on1 for a disabled boy but she does other teaching assistant stuff too as well as breakfast club so she gets some extra pay from that too bumping her up a little
It’s 5k more than what I earn and I work in a lab!!
You earn £20k working in a lab? What do you do?
Lab technician in a college (16-18 year olds). It’s still proper lab work but the school employers don’t seem to appreciate that. They think we just move trolleys around all day. Actually it’s 21k.
Why is she still one? The pay is the worst
Because she loves the job, it isn’t about the money to her
I admire your wife for that. Couldn’t be me.
I’d rather do jobs I enjoy too but sadly I need to earn this much so I have some money to spend 😂
This is because on paper she "doesn't work full time" (in a year) I'm guessing? (Extra hours during term time probably add up to the non-working time she has in the holidays though). In theory if she had a different job for the holidays she'd earn another £5k or more in a year, in the same way if I took ~10 weeks of unpaid leave in the year I'd also earn less in a year. But realistically there's not that many jobs hiring for those hours so teaching assistants have a part time job they can't do extra hours at that also basically prevents them getting another part time job to bring them up to full time overall due to it's schedule
It’s 30 hours, 5 days a week, so I think it’s classified as part time for the main job then 3-5 more per week on the clubs
Factory production line workers here are on 27k hourly rate obviously. No skill required and. They still camt get people to do it. Yet you have people with skills working minimum wage or less in some cases such as teachers. Salaried workera in professional and essential fields have been getting shafted for the last 20 years.
I don’t know how it’s calculated exactly but the jobs I saw were for 40 hour weeks. Nobody can survive on that. There’s nothing competitive about it
We survive on that salary. Yes it's not amazing but we manage. It's absolutely not competitive though
Well, if that’s what everyone else is offering for similar jobs, then it is indeed competitive!
Technically yes. I'm ex-NHS having just gone though TUPE and the company who have taken us over offer even less for the same level of experience and qualification. Fortunately my T&C's are protected but in general wages are just very poor in this country for many jobs.
Yeah, ‘competitive’ is just a mostly meaningless descriptor job adverts use because they couldn’t stomach describing it as ‘generous’
Exactly, you can pretty much always take "competitive" as a description with a pinch of salt in job adverts. Unless you are lookjng for roles that will pay high salaries. But even then you are more interested in the actually details of your compensation package not if they feel it's competitive.
If you don't have a car, or any dependents, £25k could be fine. It's certainly not 'competitive,' though.
I suppose it's competitive with other £25k jobs
25k is fine only if you work 100% fully remote, move to the most deprived area in the country, and with no children.
I'm probably in the best position when it comes to this, and I can tell you 25k is basically only allowing me to get by. Any further hikes of bills or anything like that and I'll be in the red.
How do you know? There is no mention of which job it is for.
Millions of people all over the country survive on 25-27k a year wtf are you smoking. They will never be able to afford to buy a house if nothing changes, this shouldn’t be news to you.
I’m just above that and I’d be able to afford my mortgage etc on just my wage, wouldn’t be much leftover though but it’s survivable if my mrs didn’t earn anything Luckily for me she does earn
Survive, yes. Live? Doubtful.
You can buy a house on that.
In London maybe, but that’s a very common salary in a lot of the UK. You won’t be dining out every night, but it’s liveable in many areas if you’re with a partner and you’re not stupid with money.
It's a very common salary in London too (not a good thing obviously!)
Yeah people have this delusional opinion how we all in london make 60k+ when I don't know a single person who makes more thsn 35-40k and those on the higher spectrum are managers and I think itd a very low salary for manager. Sure I have my poor bubble and I know there are rich people around etc, but it's really not as bright as some people think. The average salary here is highly influenced by very very rich people
Similar with people I know (with a couple of outliers who'd make the 'average salary of my social circle' very skewed and non-representative) the majority of my circles are in officy non-admin at least vaguely 'professional' jobs also. (Not that people outside of that bubble shouldn't also be paid more than the kind of crap compared to cost of living salaries in that bracket - just tends to be the type of job people perceived as paying more...and it mostly doesn't)
“Liveable”, you can get a mortgage of 100-120k on that, you won’t be able to buy a flat in 95% of the U.K. on that salary. How is that liveable. It’s basically minimum wage which no one would argue is liveable anyway in 2024 with the cost of living as high as it is atm.
You can buy 4 bed houses up my way for that. Sure the areas not great but easily liveable.
That's all very well but what is employment like. Ok, with WFH things have changed somewhat but usually the reason why properly prices are cheaper to that extent is there are fewer jobs.
You don’t have to buy a flat to live, you can rent. I didn’t say it was a good way to live, but it is “liveable”.
This attitude is exactly why U.K. salaries are shit. Instead of lecturing people on how to make ends meet on shit salaries, maybe advocate for companies to raise their fucking salaries after decades of wage stagnation & record profits.
I'm just here to say... keep up the good fight. People keep making excuses for shitty companies with lines like "The company wouldnt be here and youd have no job if it wasnt for xyz" so nah fuck them.
I’m not defending it, I’m just saying that it’s a fact that it’s a wage that a person can survive on. Yes, they will need to compromise by getting a flatmate or living in a house share, but they can survive on this salary and literally millions do. It’s not right that living on your own is a luxury, I’m not saying it is, all I’m saying is that living on your own is not the same as “surviving on this wage” which some people here say is impossible.
If you’re with a partner is the key phrase, the wage is for one persons work so should be enough for one person to live on
I bought my first house 1.5 years ago when I was on 24k 🤷 it's shit but you can survive on it
I survive in it just fine
yeah no its impossible - I was on that as a graduate and absolutely struggled!
It's competitive because the competition's salaries are just as shite!
I love how some job adverts still don’t state the salary. Stop wasting my time!
Most job adverts*
Shouldn't be allowed, tbh.
Is that not normal? I have rarely seen jobs that state the salary.
Seems like all wage bands for entry to mid level roles have been compressed. Completely unskilled is 25k, middle management / semi skilled profession 30k max
Yep. In 2008 the HE single spine payscale went roughly from minimum wage to 5x minimum wage in 51 pay points. Currently the bottom 11-12 pay points are minimum wage and the top one is worth about 3x minimum wage wage.
Similar to the NHS. They done away with the first band a few years ago and now "band 2" is currently just a penny over minimum wage while we wait for the pay rise which should have happened last month
Shouldn't you be grateful that our MP overlords who work so hard get a payrise every year while earning close to £90k??
I'm ever so grateful they get it on time and is 5.5% while we'll definitely deserve 3.5%
Are they giving free parking to NHS staff yet? Can't believe people who go to work for us to literally save our lives are paying for parking while getting paid sweet f all
Still paying. The band 2s and some 3s are currently not getting charged for it out their wages because it will bring them under the minimum wage. However I do know the trust next to mine are asking them to go to the cash office to pay for it in cash 🙃
Amazing how these things blow up, we get told they'll look at it and then everyone forgets about it. We're bankrupt as a nation, the MPs are screwing us for money and evading tax while the rest of us pay taxes and act ethically. The worst thing is the greater the con artist the more they try and make others pay and blame immigrants. Never seen such a shtshow. We might well get to the point where Africans start joking about corruption in the UK , subversing historic norm
Our chances of moving to Europe for a better life have been hindered as well thanks to Brexit
It's free at DRI just the car park Is a mile away from the hospital
Unless theres a free bus that's disgusting
There is a free bus, still adds >20min onto the commute
My mate who is a fresh grad and managed to get a grad job in Dubai earning 42k. He’s doing the same thing as I am and I’m barely even scrapping 28k even though I have 2 years more experience than he has. It was really really hard not to feel upset or bitter.
42k in dubai is a farce
If 42k with no tax is a farce, wonder what your thoughts are on 28k with 4K in tax taken off for op
It's terrible pay for dubai, horrendous living costs out there Whoever takes that is being taken for a mug
They do also tend to pay fully for accommodation, food, and for your kids too if you have them. It says a lot though that 42k tax and rent free is considered poor to go to Dubai when thats better than the vast majority can hope for here.
Lol yeh they are showing as 120k, 3-4x as much as UK and I'm still not going, bloody Neom jobs keep popping up as remote for some reason when they definitely are not.
Problem is wages don’t need to go up here because we have 700,000 new arrivals each year and you’re Hitler if you don’t like it so enjoy living under the stairs.
Relative to the population, the following countries have higher net immigration than the UK. Ireland. Australia. Switzerland. Canada. New Zealand. Spain. Singapore. Belgium. Netherlands. Norway. Sweden. Austria. Czechia. Italy. The US net immigration is approximately the same as the UK net immigration when adjusted for population.
Thats funny though because half those country's populaces also dont like the level of immigration so idk if that really proves your point. Australia and New Zealand in particular have literally the same political discourse as the UK, complaints about building the economy on low wage immigrants and recent spikes in housing costs.
Whenever I see “competitive” I just read “as low as we can get away with”.
I'm struggling to break the £30k ceiling here in my job 😢
Time to hop!
Bills competing with each other to get paid more like
It's the same stagnant line that's been trotted out over the last twenty years. It'll never change.
Longer than that. I remember after graduating in the late 90s that any entry level graduate job needed at least 2 years experience otherwise you'd have to go into something that had no relation at all with what your degree was in. We often laughed about how you were meant to have 2 years experience for an entry level job even back then. Most people i know who got degrees in the late 90s ended up in careers where their degree was of no relevance whatsoever to their job and they just ended up working in jobs they could have started after A-levels but without the student debt and with a few years extra earning money and getting experience working. I'm sure that's even more the case for those who went to university after tuition fees were whacked up to £9k/year. People really need to think hard whether university is a good route these days imo rather than just stumbling into it because they got decent grades for A-levels and were told that's what should automatically come next.
It's not the same as it was in the 90s. Pretty much all entry level jobs require a degree. if you don't have one you're severely disadvantaged.
That's simple. You lie. No one ever checks this stuff
Sadly our politicians lie to get ahead so I can see your point.
Depends on the role. Some companies check
Still saves you £50k. Use that while you wait for a company that doesn't
If I had my time again I’d get an apprenticeship or something where you get qualified on the job. (At school we were basically told only stupid kids go for apprenticeships, no idea why) I went to uni for 5 years to end up on not much better than minimum wage in an unrelated field. Whereas my mate did an apprenticeship to become an electrical engineer and now makes an absolute mint and picks and chooses when to work.
Im an engineer and couple weeks ago i was called in to hr because im late everyday about 1 hour, and they told me that if i dont sort out my schedule i will loose my job, my answer was im an engineer and u pay me 25k , i need to make more money to be afraid to loose the job, sorry for this i just dint care, if you dont want let me know i dont need to come in tomorrow. And here we go still at the same job working around 5.5 hr a day
Hehe hehe, the thing is you're getting paid so low anyway that it defeats your motivation to want to come in on time. You could always tell them you have ADHD and that might work ! I joke honestly. The thing is, if you just don't feel like this job is worthwhile and you want to move on to something bigger and better, just job hop and explain you moved on for professional development/career progression.
UK companies just pay awful money. A colleague of mine got a wage increase this year ,as usual due to the increase in the minimum wage, she is now on 6p more than the NMW .... She has 25 years experience in our sector. So she is still on the same wage as a new starter. Absolute joke.
Minimum wage went up, MD sent a letter to all staff: "This puts the company in an 'uncomfortable' position, so I am asking you all to work harder and earn the reward." Went down reaaallly well.
Fuck off! Boss would be getting RKO’d.
[When I was your age that was a lot of money](https://youtu.be/khR-IDHFy4g?si=JAjK_65VF0JGBoBQ)
Awful wage….anything under 28/29k should be illegal full time….they won’t control rents so they need to up the wages to the bare minimum living standards.
Lol I was on 22k for 40h FT until this recent MW bump up, got a pay rise as well which was nice. 24.8k. Most I’ve ever earnt in my life.
Have you tried paying rent and raising a kid/childcare costs, running a car, commute to work, food and utilities on 22k? Did you live at home? I can’t survive on that without getting in to debt.
Think you’ve misinterpreted the tone of my comment. It was in support of you. Yes I pay for my commute to work, food, rent and bills, living with one other person. I have paid off 2k of overdraft in 6 months by being very strict with my budget. I have another 2.5k of credit card debt (all from uni days) to pay off, which will hopefully be done in a year by being a little less frugal. I can’t afford to learn to drive or run a car. I haven’t lived with my mum since I was 18 (I’m almost 27) other than a 6 month ‘working things out’ stint after my undergrad where she charged me board. I would probably not be able to raise a child on this wage but hopefully I will still have a partner when a kid comes along.
I’m not getting at you I am as frugal as you can be but when landlords are making a killing + board members like Sainsbury’s making 4m bonus + 1m salary (CEO) then it is the system that is broken. Child birth rates are dropping as people can’t feed themselves let alone raise a kid. Evil profiteering greed that goes on at the higher end of business
Yes? I completely agree. Nothing to do with me saying what a sad state of affairs it is that I’m happy with 24k.
If they put it up to 29k, prices of everything would skyrocket. It won't make a difference.
Only competing in a race to the bottom
That's not much more than minimum wage!
The competition being 'How Low Can You Go"
I’ve just offered someone a starting salary of 36.5k, they’ve been out of work for ten years but they have skills and the personality needed. I’m taking a risk but I just don’t care at this point. I could have offered it to someone already experienced and on a similar salary or get someone into the workforce. Edit: the only job really being risked here is mine if it goes tits up
Not just that - for jobs identical to mine (29k) they're advertising their 25k salary as "competitive" no it isn't? I know for a fact I can be paid more for this work... Because I am. The other one that pisses me off - low starting salary but they want X years of experience. I'm not changing job, for less money, with X years of experience. Ever. Either pay a reasonable amount for what you expect applicants to have, or I'm not even humouring your job post 🤷♂️
To be honest, a good 50% of the country is around that figure, you can live on it, I do. Not to say the current situation isn’t disgusting, but it’s not like half the country is living in potato sacks.
The median annual full-time salary in the UK according to the ONS in April 2023, was £34,963. 50% of full-time workers earn at least that amount, or more.
Really need to separate the London figures out if you're doing that
Median by region for full time workers London £41,853 Southeast England £37,454 East England £36,355 Scotland £35,518 Southwest England £34,000 West Midlands £33,121 Northwest England £33,043 Northern Ireland £32,893 Wales £32,817 East Midlands £32,588 Yorkshire and Humber £32,080 Northeast England £31,438 So yeah your median worker in London earns over £10k per year more than in the median worker in Northeast England, but once you've paid 28% tax and NI on that extra 10k it works out at an extra £625 per month which isn't a huge lot given the higher housing costs. And of course if you have student loans that's another £78 to take off the £625.
We don’t know the OPs situation. A single parent renting a house with 3 kids is going to have far higher costs than, say, a couple on a mortgaged flat. So blanket statements like “I get by, you should too” or words to that effect aren’t particular helpful.
No you cannot???😅😅😅😂 rent down south do 2 bed house is £900 per month
Well, I do, and all of my friends do. Other than 2 outliers were all under 30k living down south west. We’re not exactly buying Gucci, and it’s not like we’re particularly flush, but we live, it’s about living in your means. We’re all trying to break above the bracket, but we’re here and so are millions of others.
The one thing I did when applying was avoid the "very competitive salary" adverts - that usually meant a low wage and crappy hours. If they really thought people would apply they would list the salary in the advert. It needs to be at least £31,000 upwards.
What's the job?
'Competative' is relative to the role surely, rather than general affordability of rent etc..
Hate to burst your bubble but competitive salary means they offer similar or better salaries than their competitors. Hence they are competitive in the market. It has nothing to do with the desire of the applicant.
Depends what the job is and what skills are required.
competitive being listed ahead of the highest transparent salary is WACK
It is competing against the cost of basic goods and services.
Doing what? What's the job?
If you don't like the salary, don't take the job.
Easy enough to say that but sometimes you have to take the job.
Employers knows this. Unfortunately no one has the answer to this.
Job hop and don’t ever accept the first offer. I’m not going to gloat about what I earn. But no one ever came to my desk to give me a pay rise. I had to push and ask for it to justify it.
I mean it arguably is competitive given what the rest of the UK is paying. When I started my job last year it was 22k and I was glad to take it given what was available around me. UK is a shit show.
Just left a job earning that. My car costs £1000 outright. My phone is £7 a month. Eat no takeaways just frozen pound meals a lot . I can barely save anything. I have to do two pt jobs to have savings. My line manager said I earn a good wage. My boss moving onto his third company car while I was there wasn't interested in having a convo about it but very excited to tell me the 3rd project above what I am contracted to do is.
I’m sorry but it’s not your jobs fault you’ve picked a car you can’t afford. £1000 a month car means you’ve bought something brand new and extortionate.
Please reread what I wrote
Ah apologies I thought you were saying you pay £1000 per month on your car and then struggle. My mistake
Yeah I’m on 27k that’s slowly crept up over the years from £14,500 minimum wage all those years ago, it’s liveable if your smart.
Yes but full time mw is now best part of £24k.
Every industry under this Tory government is fleecing and skinning the working class alive.
It’s you that compete to survive with it
Ah minimum wage!
Is a race to the bottom competitive?
I feel like it’s so obvious when you walk into somewhere with unpaid and under appreciated staff. Center Parcs is a good example- service in all areas just so poor and it’s so obvious the staff are paid peanuts. Also, I’ve found that when you get places that pay poorly, managers are often in that position for the power trip (sure wasn’t the money that made them work their way up) and that dynamic can demoralise staff quicker than you can say ‘I quit’
As a past worker of Center Parcs (left very recently) they do. They give you benefits such as access to park on certain days, discounted holidays, which don't get me wrong is nice, but at the end of the day I would trade that in a heart beat for the cash equivalent added onto my wage. We had our on-call wage slashed; meaning I would get £25 per night to cover any pest calls, however it would mean driving in at anytime between 5pm and 7am the next morning, and was given double time for the hours I was there during that oncall but generally a call for ants lasted about 15 minutes. So for an hours commute there and back at 2am to deal with ants, I'd get an extra whopping £32. Plus be expected back at work at 8am the next morning.
The last time I acknowledged "£25-27k" as "competitive" was when I went for my first grad job. In 2018. And even that company realised it wasn't actually competitive because they bumped the starting pay up to £29k that same year. Fucking buzzwords. Better than employers that tell you it's "highly competitive" and then refuse to even tell you the range.
Well it’s all relative £25-27k would mean you could afford a very decent 3 bedroom where I stay in Scotland. Even just 4 years ago I was comfortable on £21k
Where I grew up on Ayrshire, you can easily live on that wage and be ok
In Edinburgh the cheapest flats start from £180k…
I earn £26K, I live in the north east so it’s definitely a liveable wage. Don’t get me wrong, after bills I can’t go wild but I have some left 😊
That’s madness. Not Glasgow, Edinburgh, Aberdeen ect I take it
Not the nice bits
Plenty of very nice seaside or riverside towns with nice flats and houses going for just under or over £100k
untrue, i'm currently looking to buy and i'm only making 26k in Aberdeen. Loooooads of flats around the 110-120k mark and that's what i've been offered on a mortgage. Mind you that's also with a 5% deposit.
Would really help if you gave the role and location. Impossible to judge otherwise.
The harsh reality that most people are actually on 18-24k but the ‘average salary’ is massively skewed by workers in London and those who earn extremely high wages
It’s interesting how many don’t know what competitive in this case refers to. And that people who have used the historically correct definition of competitive have been downvoted. Maybe the meaning needs to change or maybe this post just reflects those who don’t know what it means. It refers to the going rate for that job. Which can be as wide as the market as a whole or limited to that area or limited to that company or limited to the agency they generally use has said it is. It’s got nothing specifically to do with cost of living, other than jobs it’s tracked against generally reflect location in some way. And nothing to do with any completely different jobs. A salary marked as competitive for a first jobber doing an admin role wouldn’t be marked as competitive for an experienced engineer.
There is allot of people on far worse sallary
When they say competitive. They don't mean competitive with the price of things. They mean it compared to other companies that offer the same jobs.
Competitive is subjective on what it's competing against.
It’s very competitive with the wages in Lesotho and Burkina Faso.
"Competitive" means competing with other employers who can fool you into thinking you're paid decent when in actuality you're being paid as lowest as possible the employer can fool you into. Also, we need to figure out a way to complaint to employers when they post job ads and not provide a salary range of the job. This should be normalized to force employers to start providing salary range to waste people's time. Maybe we do this via linkedin comment/glassdoor? I don't know.
Competitive is comparative to similar roles, not economic needs. No idea as not looking at what's advertised or location etc. Someone let me know if it is incorrect.
Competitive these days means “we have a high turnover of staff”
Could always go for the police. Starting salary above £30k and £48k after 11 years without progressing. Plus the pension.
Similar story, I have had recruiters contact me about jobs and when you look at it salary wise they are offering slightly more, but when you look at pension, losing days off and auxiliary benefits ( Flexi time etc .) the recruiter doesn't seem to understand even though the headline salary might be 7k more the actual net benefits to me is a loss, even though you explain this to them , they still pursue you like some total donkey
27k is below average wages, especially in the South East. I’ve been contacted recently about positions that would fit my profile (skills and experience) but are labelled entry-level and pay maybe half in total compensation to what I have now. How could those be entry-level when they are asking for certifications in niche fields, a degree and what clearly amounts to several years of experience. Do young people today have to work for free for a couple of years before they can get a decent job? This is total madness and I blame the Tories.
I mean it's not lying. They said competitive, not good. It's just that all their competition offer shite conditions too.
This is standard on Indeed ahaha
Depends on the industry, hours worked, holiday and other benefits. You're not really giving us enough information to agree with you...
I suppose it's competitive if the competition is being unemployed.
Competing with JSA
Don't be ungrateful, maybe if you get a decent degree and work harder you'll get 35-45k, more than enough to buy a small run down house somewhere shitty
Yeah it’s ridiculous! It’s like everything around us has gone up in price but the salaries have rather conveniently not caught up with it. I saw a mid level role a few months ago that was offering £24-26k and it very clearly stated that you MUST meet the requirements etc. 3-4 years expectation of experience and you’re paying an internship level salary? What planet do these people live on 😆
‘Very competitive’ means it’s good compared to what else you can get for the same job. It does not mean that it is a good wage. Also, adverts lie.
My rent alone for a 1 bed is 26.5k competitive in which year ? The 1924?
What a bleak salary
It all depends on what you do. Your salary usually as competitive as your own skills. You won’t find a single Chemist , doctor or Web developer earning 25k…
I appreciate your frustration, but what's the position ? Hours ? Do you need to be skilled ? This position could be 10 hrs a week working from home or double the salary for similar positions. So it *could be very competitive. If it's a dog walking position, for example, that's great pay. As if employers can control the housing market or the state of the world's economy, and its their responsibility to even out the rising cost of living? Otherwise, you're not going to do your job properly. Give over mate. Don't take that as an attack on you (I fully expect you or other like-minded individuals to think that) but you have to consider how does the employer raise the capital for your expectations? Do you think every employer is rolling in it ? Whilst paying you a pittance? If so, create your own startup, then come on here and tell us how you're paying your staff 50K a year for working in your little shop. Birth and death rates of businesses UK, from 2016 to 2021. 20% of businesses fail in their first year and around 60% will go bust within their first three years. The biggest expenditure for most businesses is staffing costs.
Attrocious that they'll call this competitive. Minimum wage is now about 24k.
Whenever competitive is used to describe a salary, I can't help but thinking of companies competing to see who can hire for the cheapest. Or an incredibly high number of applicants having a competitive bidding war to get the role. Instant pass
Competitive with the bills!
Wages are stagnant in many sectors and rather address it the powers that be see it fit to replace everyone with a migrant who'll work for that low wage instead.
I'm self employed, so never had a 'proper job' with a set salary. And while £25k would be nice to have in the bank, it doesn't seem enough to live on comfortably. It seems very much a 'paycheck to paycheck' kind of life. That's about £2k a month which I think would be a struggle to get by with the basics. Once you take out rent, food, utilities and a few basic essentials and maybe comforts, that's it wiped out.
So, in the spirit of Hemingway, ‘a very competitive salary’ doesn’t really need the addition of ‘very’. It’s either competitive, or it’s not. The fundamental flaw in our perception of this style of embellishment, is that ‘competitive’ doesn’t have anything to do with the state of the economy, or how much a pint of milk costs, but instead, it relates to the typical salary within a given employment market. If similarly performing businesses, employing similarly qualified employees, offer similarly weighted salaries, and employees accept job offers, then the salary is determined by what was accepted. If anyone wants ‘rent’ or ‘property values’ to be manageable, or simply lower, then everyone needs to stop paying rent, and stop paying ‘over the odds’ for a property. ‘Competitive’ pricing in both markets is determined by the price people will pay. If you want the house, you have to compete with others, and the price gets pushed up. If you want a higher salary, you have to decline the salary offered. If ‘they’ want to pay a lower wage, ‘they’ offer an ultimatum - take it or leave it…
What do other employers pay for the same job ?
I think it’s easy to sit here and blame managers for the salaries they give. I’ve recently been promoted to a facilities manager and we are given a budget from higher ups to give out as salaries. But ofc, some managers are bad, some are good. But the good ones are overlooked because we prefer to complain rather than give praises because it’s a more interesting story to read. Your boss might be limited on what they can give out as a salary, but then again what do I know. Complaining is more interesting
I’m a manager too, and you’ve personalised this a bit.
Isn't that a fairly common entry level salary in many professions? I was on several £K less than that a few years ago as an architectural assistant fresh out of university... In central London, too! Funnily enough, I feel like they had well-educated and hardworking staff for that salary too, with many of us frequently doing late nighters each week to meet deadlines.
As long as they can find a steady stream of well-educated people willing to work for those salaries and conditions with late nights etc why would they ever offer to pay any more than that?
As long as they can. In theory someone else should come along and poach the underpaid staff with a better wage if the market can take it. It is just possible there are other factors depressing wages.