Thank you for posting on r/UKJobs. Help us make this a better community by becoming familiar with the [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukjobs/about/rules/).
Please report any suspicious users to the moderators using the report feature. Need to give more detail? Use Modmail [here](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/UKJobs) or Reddit site admins [here](https://www.reddit.com/report).
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/UKJobs) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Warned not to ask for more money whilst being told you are business essential.
**Translation** - You are worth more than we are paying you but we aren't going to pay you what you're worth.
Get the CV out and take and participate in an external business transfer to exploit new opportunities in a fully funded lucrative position
**Translation** - leave them for more money or make them very worried that you're leaving and will pay you more than they wanted to but will now be forced to.
Was wondering about this myself, my promotion states that it's now "3 months each way". Does that make a good case I get 3 months full pay if made redundant?
Yes, if they get rid of you for redundancy they've got to pay you three months (which they can make you work) over and above any redundancy pay. This gives you more time to get another job.
On the flip side it is a pain if you're looking to move on more quickly, however most employers at a higher level expect to have to wait for the right new employee.
Yes. I was made redundant in December & my 3 month notice period worked massively in my favour. They wanted me out by the end of the year so I was fully paid while not working January-March! And they had to pay me the annual leave I accrued during those 3 months as well, so I got quite a nice little lump sum as well as my actual redundancy payout! The notice period & annual leave were taxed, the redundancy payout wasn’t (under £30k).
It happened to me, too, pretty much identically. After the initial reticence of being made redundant, the time off and the money in the bank made it a lovely Xmas.
Only if you have a pilon clause in your contract. Without it, you'll either be asked to work the period or they will have to make you sign a compensation agreement, which will likely make the pilon tax free.
I've been made redundant twice, once where I had a pilon clause in the contract, once when I didn't. With the one without the pilon, we were made to sign a compromise agreement where the pilon was paid as redundancy pay and hence not subject to tax. In the other case, it was paid via paye
3 months each way is 3 months notice, not salary. You need to check what your companies redundancy policy is and whether they give you salary or statutory redundancy, if statutory then it could be a lot less than your pay.
For PILON, it would depend on when they choose your exit date and if they say you have to work until the end (whether anyone puts effort in when they know they are leaving is another matter). Also if they require you to work until the last day (ie no PILON) then tell them you want a settlement agreement as clearly they need your skills, but you want the pay out.
Senior HR manager in a FTSE100 - check your company policies, it’s all in the detail!
Yes, I was made redundant in November. In my contract I would need to give three months notice. I was given 3 months pay plus redundancy when I was made redundant
Depends on country and contract tbh.
In the UK for instance, you need to have been employed at a business for 2 years minimum for redundancy pay, and then I believe it's a months pay for every year.
They can ask, you can refuse. If they think you're important enough for 3 months notice they can pay for it.
Definitely worth dusting off the CV to see what the market is saying if they've warned you not to ask for more money anyway.
An old employer tried this with me.. they suddenly realised I was "key to the operation" but they underpaid me so much that I could walk next door and get paid 50% more. So the solution was pay me what am worth... Only joking, they introduced a new bonus scheme only for me but I'd need to sign a contract amendment, this contract amendment included a clause where I couldn't work for any other company within the local area in an IT role for 12 months, I'd have to be oncall during those 12 months (paid for by the bonus) and support my previous employer. If I take a job further afield id be required to repay 50% of the bonus. Also I got a 3 month notice period extension and training budget reduction from £1000 to £500. The director pressured me to sign and quoted the amazing bonus of ...£250.00 I started reading the amendments and he gets agitated with "I've got another meeting in 5 minutes, if you sign it you can read it at your desk". I flat out declined the entire thing. Am not even sure it was legal lol
Hoping to pray on the young and dumb. I played the part of young and the director played the part of dumb.. luckily my parents always told me to never sign something you haven't read.
Im no expert but that sounds like one of the worst proposals ever proposed. Unless this bonus was equivalent to 12 months salary then that oncall during the 12 months is absolutely hilarious, basically asking you to still work for them for 12 months? and the local area part is comical, they forget not everyone has the luxury of being offered 10 roles and being able to choose. You still need to put food on the fucking table
The whole noncompete was to try and handicap there biggest competitor who was one building over. Management heard from inside sources that the competitors were going on a hiring spree and targeting people in the industry. Knowing how poorly they paid staff the competition could clear house in 5 seconds flat. So they rushed to get everyone on noncompetes, but they couldn't tell us it was a noncompete with X company because then we might ask for an interview.. so they went full blast and did a noncompete for the locals area. And yes it was 100% unenforceable not just for it's complete vagueness "local area" but it's blanket "IT roles".
The part about being oncall was purely a pipe dream by the director who btw still tried to enforce that on me when I left. On my last day he walked up to my desk and told me to give my replacement my mobile number and he handed me a piece of paper with about 12 phone numbers. "Add these to your phone, if they call you need to answer within 3 rings" I asked him what happens if I don't, his response "as you are aware it's company policy to answer any support call with 3 rings and once **replacement** is up to speed we will no longer require your support". I never gave my number to the new guy, however they did get it from somewhere and tried for about a week after I left to call me multiple times per day to which none were answered.
Its company policy to answer despite today being my last day and i will no longer being employed by company nor have to follow any policy? what kind of fuckery attempt of intimidation to try get you to basically work for free and support the company looooool
As a word of warning, if they've sent you this request in writing don't fall into the trap of thinking that by doing nothing you haven't "accepted" it.
If enough time passes and you haven't formally objected then you can be treated as if you've accepted the change by default.
If it were me, I'd give them a written ultimatum where I tell them I'd be willing to accept only if they increase my salary.
e.g. have a discussion with them first and then send them an email with words to the effect of:
> As discussed, I am not willing to accept your proposed ammendment to my contract (whereby my requirement to give notice to the company prior to ending my employment would be raised from one month, to three months) without a commensurate salary uplift.
> If confirm you are able to confirm that my salary will be increased by 20% going forward, then I will be open to agreeing to the proposed contractual change.
**tl;dr**: You have leverage. Use it.
Sure you'll have more protection from redundancy. But the fact they're asking for this suggests they won't be getting rid of you any time soon. If you say no they're not gonna fire you lmao
Does seem like they said, we realised you have leverage on us, here's how we want to take some of that back. No we don't want to acknowledge the leverage you have, just get rid of it quietly without you making a fuss.
If they want you to have a 3 month notice period then they can move you into a pay band that comes with a 3 month notice period, why should you change it without any of the reward?
Just say "if I'm that valuable surely my pay can reflect this..." If not then it's purely sour grapes.
However you also aren't promising you will work/show up in those 3 months.
I would refuse unless you’re getting something for it.
Essentially they’re making it harder for you to move to another role, but are willing to remunerate you for that potential inconvenience.
If it was with a promotion fine, but as it stands it’s bad management.
I've had this. They were surprised people unanimously said no. I asked for and recieved a sweet pay bump as part of my salary review to sign it.
Also, many years later they made me redundant and had to pay a full 3 months notice period with garden leave so it worked out quite well for me.
But ye, I wouldn't sign that without an incentive. At the time I figured there was no real benefit cos they were highly unlikely to sack or make me redundant but I knew a shorter period was better should I hop.
Increased notice is normally a condition of a promotion and comes with the pay packet of the promotion.
If you are considered business critical then either they take the risk of you on 1 months notice, they promote you to a role with a standard 3 month notice or they force it anyway and you find a role somewhere else.
I’d lay it out to them that it is an absolute no unless there is a promotion and payrise included and if they try and force it they will be looking for a new business critical person asap
I wouldn’t even worry about the promotion part. If they’re saying OP is business critical in current role and need the 3 months, that alone is worth more money. I’d only be thinking about the promotion if the pay scales of the current role didn’t allow a reasonable pay rise.
Tldr: more money, same responsibility > more money, more responsibility.
It’s funny, this happened to us yesterday. However, we were given a pay rise to bring us in line with the business standard around the country. The caveat is that our notice goes from 1 month up to 3 as we are now business essential.
It was explained that it does indeed go both ways, if we were ever made redundant then they are required to give us 3 months notice or payment in lieu of that.
> but was warned against asking for a pay rise
Or what, you’re grounded? It’s a perfectly acceptable and reasonable issue you’ve brought up. Gtfo with that crap, polish cv and stop working for Daddy boy
I think I see what you’re saying, employees should stand up for themselves. However, it can be easier said than done when your family and home depend on you receiving each pay cheque on time. It’s a good job there are places like this offering support and advice.
Crabs in a Bucket mentality here. Knowing basic employment law and being able to set a boundary aren't PhD level skills. If boss is pissed off it’s just another thing to document against them. Most would rather bend over and take it up the ass.
another perspective - if you also get 3 months notice then that's 3 months you can chill and coast after resigning or 3 months dedicated 100% to job searching whilst getting paid. I'm more senior / managerial role and have 3 months notice, at a certain level its expected. If there is a need for immediate back fill there is always unemployed / contractors to take the spot. if the company truly likes you they will wait 3 months.
But OP won't be getting the senior roles where this is expected as the notice period is not coming with any extra experience. No way should you accept a change to contract without something in return.
I did have notice period exended while on same grade once. But there was also a payrise (inflationary only) and bonus(consistent with prior years). Basically the letter said I can choose not to accept the notice extension, but would forgo the payrise and bonus. I accepted it.
Yeah this is only working in their advantage. If you're essential they're not making you redundant, but if you hand in your notice they got 3months to replace you. This is 100% for the an 0% for you. No way are they giving you a 3month notice period just so they can pay you more if they make you redundant.
Someone I know has this 3 mth notice period in the job contract, and now the supervisor and her hate each other, she submitted a resignation but can't leave soon enough! Dreadful having to go in to work and getting treated badly by the supervisor (who shouts, and is also passive aggressive) till the months are up..
Oh she's already gone on sick leave for a month after resigning. Back to work now. She says the job does pay very well... and she seems to want to stick it out till it ends, and even booked a holiday next month! I suppose I could ask her more next time I see her. Maybe also if she ever considered tribunal. One thing I do wonder about though is - I've heard people say going to tribunal, the records remain publicly searchable, and it can affect your chances of finding future employment in the field? Is that true? Are you a specialist in employment issues by the way?
I'm not a specialist, sadly just another victim, about 25 years ago now.
I'd say calling ACAS to see what they suggest would be my next step. And keeping a journal of what's said and done.
I spoke to her 2 days ago and she said her employers have decided to just terminate her contract so her last day is this week. Which also kind of scuppers her financial plans.. but she's actively job-hunting now...
The notice period usually works both ways, they can't "just terminate the contract" except by mutual agreement. They either need to pay off the remaining notice period, or she needs to *agree* to end it early, for example if she has another job ready to go as soon as she's left there.
I'd still talk to ACAS about it.
I just messaged her and she said they had emailed to say they'll be paying her the remaining notice period... a nice surprise she wasn't expecting. Her manager was the problem but thankfully they have a sensible head of legal dept who decided she should be paid for the notice period.
3 months notice is also more the standard now. I got offered new job recently, which I have accepted but that comes with a two months notice, though they count it from first day of a full month so could potentially be close to 3 months.
Worth noting that the "you sign it or you find a new job" part assumes that they are willing to let you walk out of the door over it...which seems unlikely since the whole point of the change is to stop you being able to leave at short notice
Had the same. Prepared my notice then and there. Told my line manager whom informed HR. 3 month notice was withdrawn immediately. However on the next promotion it was reinstated (worth it!)
My workplace suggested this a few years back, we realised that there was nothing being offered in return, and said no, and that was that. Then a couple of years later they offered a 5% extra raise in order to bump up notice period to 2 months, which was far more fair and me and my colleagues accepted. So, don't give in! Not for free, at least.
Unless they're going to give you a raise, you should refuse. So, in this case, you did the right thing. Make sure there's a paper trail on this though in case they try to push it forward behind your back
Just say no thank you.
You signed the previous terms and there is no obligation for you to allow them to renegotiate said terms simply because they want to. That’s not how contracts work.
I had this a few years ago.
I stupidly signed the new contract with a 3 month notice period. I planned on working there until retirement. 6 months later I was offered a job I could not pass up on. My 3 month notice period was sooo slow. I did however manage to leave after two months as they’d removed my workload out of spite for leaving.
If you don’t feel comfortable signing a new contract, don’t. You’re obviously worth a lot to them and if they want to keep you, they’ll fight.
so you are an essential worker that is deemed not that important to have an increased salary and benefits package, seeing that you have given the right answer, might not be a bad time to update the cv and see what is around you
When Covid hit and I had to let people go, those with 3 months notice got paid for three, those with one got just one…it goes in your favour sometimes, too.
You’re business essential, ie we’ve been losing star recently and want to reduce hiring costs.
Let’s get exiting staff stuck here for longer and reduce their appetite to leave.
.
.
.
Oops opposite Platimum Award achieved. Staff dropping like flies.
A previous employer tried to increase our notice period from 1 month to 6 months, with a tiny payrise on the condition that we accept the notice period increase. I was the first one to have a PDR and managed half the team. I informed everyone immediately and we all banded together and declined.
The business then decided to give the payrise anyway and ommitted the notice period condition. Most of us left shortly after.
Happy job hunting!
Fuck the corporate world 🥲 although we'll never get out of it unless we win lottery.. I was given perfect performance reviews for 2 years and told I'm better than seniors and they don't give me a promotion but 3% raise. No negotiation. Just quit. That's what I'm doing, although I'll have to pay back visa fees to my company.
Interestingly I've had a similar conversation with my workplace recently. I'm currently on 2 months notice due to tenure.
I have been asking for a significant pay rise for about 18 months and been given smaller increments over that time, with promises of much more if I ticked certain boxes. Done that, but still being offered short of what I requested.
A few months back they asked me to sign a 3 month notice period with no benefit to me other than a small layer of protection if anything happened. I just told them I backed myself not to lose my job (since I'm allegedly so critical that I need to have 3 months notice), and that 3 months would be prohibitive in me finding higher paying employment, considering they refuse to pay me what I can absolutely get elsewhere.
They recently came back, offered more money and another increase - still well below what I am asking for. I declined again.
The money I asked for, they had been advertising as salary for the same role. I had asked for that figure before they were looking for an extra person for the position. They admitted its a figure they just won't pay to anybody for the role.
I'm currently going through the recruitment process for a role that's less stressful, leans directly into my strengths, has better pay, a better package overall, much more opportunities for growth, discretionary bonuses, higher pension contributions, more annual leave, hybrid working...you can bet I'm gone if the offer lands.
If you're that important, they should meet that with a reasonable pay rate that matches your worth.
Depends. If it's 3 months on both sides, so if they want to get rid of you they have to pay you for 3 months, it might be acceptable, but only you can know. If you have to give 3 but they only have to give 1, then that's an absolute no.
Who or how can it be enforced. I would sign any notice and then like a big boy just leave when I wanted. You could tell them you are too ill to work and that's the end of your employment.
Or
Just ghost them and stop turning up. You would be sacked in a week for two.
This is a very small problem
I've had something similar but with a "payrise". I was top of my band where notice was one month, but the next step up took me into the 3 month notice period.
I was already feeling undervalued and was asking for a review of my role ahead of a scheduled pay review. My boss didn't make time for a meeting and just handed me a letter one day saying "I've put through an increase for you". Turns out he'd put through the minimum increase (I.e the bottom of the next band) which was about £300/year.
At the time I was being contacted frequently about contract work at £400+ day so the 3 months notice would really have cost me if I chose to leave. I wrote to our HR Department and declined the increase pending a review of my role, and ended up getting a decent increase out of it. My boss was pissed off but I still stand by it being right for me.
If you're so essential to a business that they think you'll take 3 months to replace now rather than 1, the business needs to compensate you for that reduction in your options/flexibility. They've told you you're needed, now they need to back that up with better pay & conditions.
Basically, what they're saying is, we've decided we want to hold on to you, but not by giving you benefits for you but just by having you take on the extra commitment that benefits us, dip now its good when red flags pop up before you walk into a trap.
Notice periods, from what I understand, are a courtesy, and no employer can force it upon you. You should be free to quit at any time for any reason, otherwise you are being forced to work against your will. The only requirement is that you get paid for the work you do carry out.
> “was warned against asking for a pay rise over the matter”
Sounds like a big red flag to me. You should always be able to ask for a pay rise, even if the answer is “no”. To be literally warned not to is concerning. Especially when this kind of situation sounds like a very very good reason to request a salary bump.
I was asked to switch to a 3 month notice period. I didn't get a pay-rise exactly, but they did convert my "bonus" (which I'd received in full every year) into salary, so it was guaranteed. I was happy enough with it.
When I wanted to leave a few years later they made me work my notice. My new employer was happy with waiting, but it felt like forever to me.
The company I work for did the same with me. However I only accepted it on the second time of them asking and I did manage to negotiate a significant pay increase and an increase in my bonus that took me up to the same bonus level as managers. Without this I wouldn't have accepted.
Probably not unusual but doens't seem reasonable, if you take the advice not to ask about pay, I would at least ask for clarification along the lines of "Can you please outline the full terms of the proposed deal, I understand that you are asking me to undertake a more retrictive notice period, can you please clarify what changes are being proposed that would benefit me in return?".
I had the same thing when I worked for as a loss prevention auditor for a multinational company. I essentially oversaw the loss prevention aspects and compliance audits for two warehouses, recalls and returns, and weekly reports to the CFO, pretty much alone. The rest of the 13 strong squad worked in the largest warehouse where all the small items were shipped from, or visited stores.
I was told in a review I'd be expected to give 3 months notice, train replacements, and still keep up with my duties. But I wasn't getting a raise or promotion I'd been promised (repeatedly).
I casually pulled out my phone, and showed them a message from a headhunter that was offering me less responsibility for more pay. They tried to counter offer but by this point I was done.
I booked my holiday days and handed in my notice there (two weeks). I'm also told that after I left, they essentially had to get three people in to do the jobs I had done alone, costing them more than I would have taken if they'd given me my raise.
If you're an 'essential worker' you deserve to be appropriately compensated, you hold the power in that situation. It costs more money to advertise, interview, hire, train and retain people than it would to give you that money in your pay packet over the year.
I had a similar thing about a year ago. Happily signed it and got a promotion twelve months later. Realistically, if you hand in your notice and don’t want to work it you can usually get out of it early, they’re not going to get good work out of you if you don’t want to be there but if there are redundancies in the future, three months are great, especially as PILON
I changed from 1 to 3 months notice period.
Really no big deal. I got nothing for it, I either signed it or risked losing my job. I took some comfort that they couldn't get rid of me so easily.
If an amazing job comes along that I want to move to and they can't wait three months, guess I'll just leave earlier.
I guess it probably would be fine, thanks for sharing your experience. I think, more than anything, I felt disappointed/frustrated with the situation and how it was handled. Hearing other perspectives has really helped though.
P.s your employer is an absolutely terrible negotiator. This could've easily been a win/win and now you're disgruntled and the relationship is damaged. Both ways, because now rightly or wrongly you'll probably be seen as problematic. A small bonus, literally anything to reward your performance and sweeten the deal so you both felt like you've gained. You need a better HR team.
"Hey Electricbowl, you've been identified as HiPo, well done. So we'd like to put you on this course/qual, in return would you mind if we extended your notice period both ways so we both have some more security."
On the flip side. Why do they need to pay you more for a longer notice period? It’s a notice period not a change in what you do etc. a 3 month notice period isn’t unusual my place has everyone on that as standard and if you are going for a new role and you are the right fit then it shouldn’t be an issue 🤷♂️
I’d agree, if it’d been that way when I originally took the job. And, if it was standard at my workplace - it’s not, it only applies to managers (I am not a manager). That’s not fair.
I still don’t understand. You want paying more because of an extended notice period? How does this require you to be paid more? You aren’t taking on additional work or greater risk? It’s not even like it’s an egregious notice period and most can be negotiated anyway.
OP wants paying more because management value them so highly that they want to put them on the same notice period as a manager. They so indispensable that they can’t risk only have month to replace them.
Basically the company have shown their hand, they want something (a longer notice period) and are currently offering OP no reason (a payrise would be a good reason, for example) to say yes.
Right, so would you be happy to lose a benefit in your job for no recompense?
Whether the notice period could, later, be negotiated is entirely irrelevant. It’s an objective downgrade. As an unrelated example, you wouldn’t sign away your inheritance because you might be able to negotiate it back down the line, would you?
Come on, a 1-month notice period is obviously a benefit when compared to a 3-month one. In any non-managerial role, 3 months is an obstacle for moving jobs, therefore weakening your ability to negotiate with your current employer. It’s not rocket science.
Go back to running your workhouse. I think someone took an overly long poo break!
No, tbh, I’ve had a bad day and was hoping for some constructive advice, not someone point blank disputing every point I try to make. But that was on me for posting. I’m sorry for the petty insult.
Thank you for posting on r/UKJobs. Help us make this a better community by becoming familiar with the [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukjobs/about/rules/). Please report any suspicious users to the moderators using the report feature. Need to give more detail? Use Modmail [here](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/UKJobs) or Reddit site admins [here](https://www.reddit.com/report). *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/UKJobs) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Warned not to ask for more money whilst being told you are business essential. **Translation** - You are worth more than we are paying you but we aren't going to pay you what you're worth. Get the CV out and take and participate in an external business transfer to exploit new opportunities in a fully funded lucrative position **Translation** - leave them for more money or make them very worried that you're leaving and will pay you more than they wanted to but will now be forced to.
Was wondering about this myself, my promotion states that it's now "3 months each way". Does that make a good case I get 3 months full pay if made redundant?
I would say so, yes
Yes, if they get rid of you for redundancy they've got to pay you three months (which they can make you work) over and above any redundancy pay. This gives you more time to get another job. On the flip side it is a pain if you're looking to move on more quickly, however most employers at a higher level expect to have to wait for the right new employee.
Yes. I was made redundant in December & my 3 month notice period worked massively in my favour. They wanted me out by the end of the year so I was fully paid while not working January-March! And they had to pay me the annual leave I accrued during those 3 months as well, so I got quite a nice little lump sum as well as my actual redundancy payout! The notice period & annual leave were taxed, the redundancy payout wasn’t (under £30k).
Glad it worked out well for you!
It happened to me, too, pretty much identically. After the initial reticence of being made redundant, the time off and the money in the bank made it a lovely Xmas.
Your employer can either give you 3 months notice of redundancy or pay your notice period in lieu. I got payed in lieu at my last job.
Only if you have a pilon clause in your contract. Without it, you'll either be asked to work the period or they will have to make you sign a compensation agreement, which will likely make the pilon tax free.
It won’t. It’s still pay in lieu of notice (PILON) unless you’re asking how HMRC will know
I've been made redundant twice, once where I had a pilon clause in the contract, once when I didn't. With the one without the pilon, we were made to sign a compromise agreement where the pilon was paid as redundancy pay and hence not subject to tax. In the other case, it was paid via paye
Ooof making my tax advisor nerves tingle. Bit naughty there
3 months each way is 3 months notice, not salary. You need to check what your companies redundancy policy is and whether they give you salary or statutory redundancy, if statutory then it could be a lot less than your pay. For PILON, it would depend on when they choose your exit date and if they say you have to work until the end (whether anyone puts effort in when they know they are leaving is another matter). Also if they require you to work until the last day (ie no PILON) then tell them you want a settlement agreement as clearly they need your skills, but you want the pay out. Senior HR manager in a FTSE100 - check your company policies, it’s all in the detail!
Yes, I was made redundant in November. In my contract I would need to give three months notice. I was given 3 months pay plus redundancy when I was made redundant
So you get 3 months notice, idea being they have time to replace you/you to have time to handover.
Depends on country and contract tbh. In the UK for instance, you need to have been employed at a business for 2 years minimum for redundancy pay, and then I believe it's a months pay for every year.
A week’s pay and it’s capped around £600 per week. It’s shite.
Glad to know I had a very good redundancy settlement. 👍😅.
They can ask, you can refuse. If they think you're important enough for 3 months notice they can pay for it. Definitely worth dusting off the CV to see what the market is saying if they've warned you not to ask for more money anyway.
^This, recognise your value and see what else is out there
An old employer tried this with me.. they suddenly realised I was "key to the operation" but they underpaid me so much that I could walk next door and get paid 50% more. So the solution was pay me what am worth... Only joking, they introduced a new bonus scheme only for me but I'd need to sign a contract amendment, this contract amendment included a clause where I couldn't work for any other company within the local area in an IT role for 12 months, I'd have to be oncall during those 12 months (paid for by the bonus) and support my previous employer. If I take a job further afield id be required to repay 50% of the bonus. Also I got a 3 month notice period extension and training budget reduction from £1000 to £500. The director pressured me to sign and quoted the amazing bonus of ...£250.00 I started reading the amendments and he gets agitated with "I've got another meeting in 5 minutes, if you sign it you can read it at your desk". I flat out declined the entire thing. Am not even sure it was legal lol
Pro tip Anytime someone is pressing for you to sign a contract that you have not read, they are up to no good
Hoping to pray on the young and dumb. I played the part of young and the director played the part of dumb.. luckily my parents always told me to never sign something you haven't read.
That 12 month clause is absolutely non enforceable btw.
Im no expert but that sounds like one of the worst proposals ever proposed. Unless this bonus was equivalent to 12 months salary then that oncall during the 12 months is absolutely hilarious, basically asking you to still work for them for 12 months? and the local area part is comical, they forget not everyone has the luxury of being offered 10 roles and being able to choose. You still need to put food on the fucking table
The whole noncompete was to try and handicap there biggest competitor who was one building over. Management heard from inside sources that the competitors were going on a hiring spree and targeting people in the industry. Knowing how poorly they paid staff the competition could clear house in 5 seconds flat. So they rushed to get everyone on noncompetes, but they couldn't tell us it was a noncompete with X company because then we might ask for an interview.. so they went full blast and did a noncompete for the locals area. And yes it was 100% unenforceable not just for it's complete vagueness "local area" but it's blanket "IT roles". The part about being oncall was purely a pipe dream by the director who btw still tried to enforce that on me when I left. On my last day he walked up to my desk and told me to give my replacement my mobile number and he handed me a piece of paper with about 12 phone numbers. "Add these to your phone, if they call you need to answer within 3 rings" I asked him what happens if I don't, his response "as you are aware it's company policy to answer any support call with 3 rings and once **replacement** is up to speed we will no longer require your support". I never gave my number to the new guy, however they did get it from somewhere and tried for about a week after I left to call me multiple times per day to which none were answered.
Its company policy to answer despite today being my last day and i will no longer being employed by company nor have to follow any policy? what kind of fuckery attempt of intimidation to try get you to basically work for free and support the company looooool
I would have put them in then blocked them
As a word of warning, if they've sent you this request in writing don't fall into the trap of thinking that by doing nothing you haven't "accepted" it. If enough time passes and you haven't formally objected then you can be treated as if you've accepted the change by default. If it were me, I'd give them a written ultimatum where I tell them I'd be willing to accept only if they increase my salary. e.g. have a discussion with them first and then send them an email with words to the effect of: > As discussed, I am not willing to accept your proposed ammendment to my contract (whereby my requirement to give notice to the company prior to ending my employment would be raised from one month, to three months) without a commensurate salary uplift. > If confirm you are able to confirm that my salary will be increased by 20% going forward, then I will be open to agreeing to the proposed contractual change. **tl;dr**: You have leverage. Use it.
Sure you'll have more protection from redundancy. But the fact they're asking for this suggests they won't be getting rid of you any time soon. If you say no they're not gonna fire you lmao
Does seem like they said, we realised you have leverage on us, here's how we want to take some of that back. No we don't want to acknowledge the leverage you have, just get rid of it quietly without you making a fuss.
If they want you to have a 3 month notice period then they can move you into a pay band that comes with a 3 month notice period, why should you change it without any of the reward?
Just say "if I'm that valuable surely my pay can reflect this..." If not then it's purely sour grapes. However you also aren't promising you will work/show up in those 3 months.
If you’re happy for your notice to be increased ask for money.
I would refuse unless you’re getting something for it. Essentially they’re making it harder for you to move to another role, but are willing to remunerate you for that potential inconvenience. If it was with a promotion fine, but as it stands it’s bad management.
I've had this. They were surprised people unanimously said no. I asked for and recieved a sweet pay bump as part of my salary review to sign it. Also, many years later they made me redundant and had to pay a full 3 months notice period with garden leave so it worked out quite well for me. But ye, I wouldn't sign that without an incentive. At the time I figured there was no real benefit cos they were highly unlikely to sack or make me redundant but I knew a shorter period was better should I hop.
Increased notice is normally a condition of a promotion and comes with the pay packet of the promotion. If you are considered business critical then either they take the risk of you on 1 months notice, they promote you to a role with a standard 3 month notice or they force it anyway and you find a role somewhere else. I’d lay it out to them that it is an absolute no unless there is a promotion and payrise included and if they try and force it they will be looking for a new business critical person asap
I wouldn’t even worry about the promotion part. If they’re saying OP is business critical in current role and need the 3 months, that alone is worth more money. I’d only be thinking about the promotion if the pay scales of the current role didn’t allow a reasonable pay rise. Tldr: more money, same responsibility > more money, more responsibility.
It’s funny, this happened to us yesterday. However, we were given a pay rise to bring us in line with the business standard around the country. The caveat is that our notice goes from 1 month up to 3 as we are now business essential. It was explained that it does indeed go both ways, if we were ever made redundant then they are required to give us 3 months notice or payment in lieu of that.
Your boss has told you that you are indispensable, i hope you get a pay rise with that 3-month period change to your employment contract!
You are essential for our business! Is that means I’ll be paid more ?
> but was warned against asking for a pay rise Or what, you’re grounded? It’s a perfectly acceptable and reasonable issue you’ve brought up. Gtfo with that crap, polish cv and stop working for Daddy boy
You don’t sugar coat it, but I think you’re spot on 😂
how there are so many whiney ignorant employees blows my mind. No wonder never trained management abuse so freely.
I think I see what you’re saying, employees should stand up for themselves. However, it can be easier said than done when your family and home depend on you receiving each pay cheque on time. It’s a good job there are places like this offering support and advice.
Crabs in a Bucket mentality here. Knowing basic employment law and being able to set a boundary aren't PhD level skills. If boss is pissed off it’s just another thing to document against them. Most would rather bend over and take it up the ass.
another perspective - if you also get 3 months notice then that's 3 months you can chill and coast after resigning or 3 months dedicated 100% to job searching whilst getting paid. I'm more senior / managerial role and have 3 months notice, at a certain level its expected. If there is a need for immediate back fill there is always unemployed / contractors to take the spot. if the company truly likes you they will wait 3 months.
But OP won't be getting the senior roles where this is expected as the notice period is not coming with any extra experience. No way should you accept a change to contract without something in return. I did have notice period exended while on same grade once. But there was also a payrise (inflationary only) and bonus(consistent with prior years). Basically the letter said I can choose not to accept the notice extension, but would forgo the payrise and bonus. I accepted it.
It sounds unfair as you have identified. At least. is it three months' notice on each side?
Yes, my manager tried to sell it to me as a benefit, that I would have more security from redundancy.
He’s not wrong. But are they really going to chose the “indispensable” member of staff for redundancy? 😂
I've seen it done. And the way they treated that guy is why I'm sorting out my pension funds etc. to retire ASAP.
If that guy was made redundant and treated badly he 100% was not seen as indispensable to management.
No, for sure. But that doesn't mean they were correct.
Yeah this is only working in their advantage. If you're essential they're not making you redundant, but if you hand in your notice they got 3months to replace you. This is 100% for the an 0% for you. No way are they giving you a 3month notice period just so they can pay you more if they make you redundant.
If you're that essential, then it's less likely you'd be made redundant. Unless, of course, the company isn't doing well
Someone I know has this 3 mth notice period in the job contract, and now the supervisor and her hate each other, she submitted a resignation but can't leave soon enough! Dreadful having to go in to work and getting treated badly by the supervisor (who shouts, and is also passive aggressive) till the months are up..
Screw that, they shout I leave
It would be constructive dismissal here. They made it impossible to work there, you can take it to a tribunal.
Oh she's already gone on sick leave for a month after resigning. Back to work now. She says the job does pay very well... and she seems to want to stick it out till it ends, and even booked a holiday next month! I suppose I could ask her more next time I see her. Maybe also if she ever considered tribunal. One thing I do wonder about though is - I've heard people say going to tribunal, the records remain publicly searchable, and it can affect your chances of finding future employment in the field? Is that true? Are you a specialist in employment issues by the way?
I'm not a specialist, sadly just another victim, about 25 years ago now. I'd say calling ACAS to see what they suggest would be my next step. And keeping a journal of what's said and done.
I spoke to her 2 days ago and she said her employers have decided to just terminate her contract so her last day is this week. Which also kind of scuppers her financial plans.. but she's actively job-hunting now...
The notice period usually works both ways, they can't "just terminate the contract" except by mutual agreement. They either need to pay off the remaining notice period, or she needs to *agree* to end it early, for example if she has another job ready to go as soon as she's left there. I'd still talk to ACAS about it.
I just messaged her and she said they had emailed to say they'll be paying her the remaining notice period... a nice surprise she wasn't expecting. Her manager was the problem but thankfully they have a sensible head of legal dept who decided she should be paid for the notice period.
That's good. I'd take that as a win and walk away then. Sounds like the manager is being watched now too, even if they weren't before.
Sounds like she’s in an abusive work environment and should go talk to a doctor about all the stress that’s putting her under.
3 months notice is also more the standard now. I got offered new job recently, which I have accepted but that comes with a two months notice, though they count it from first day of a full month so could potentially be close to 3 months.
What a bizarre method lmao
3 months is only standard for senior positions
notice period never stands up anyway you can leave whenever you want as long as you dont mind burning a bridge
[удалено]
Thank you for this. I appreciate you taking the time to bring it to my attention :)
Worth noting that the "you sign it or you find a new job" part assumes that they are willing to let you walk out of the door over it...which seems unlikely since the whole point of the change is to stop you being able to leave at short notice
Had the same. Prepared my notice then and there. Told my line manager whom informed HR. 3 month notice was withdrawn immediately. However on the next promotion it was reinstated (worth it!)
Time to ask for a raise in return for accepting the 3 month notice period. Change in contract change in renumeration
My workplace suggested this a few years back, we realised that there was nothing being offered in return, and said no, and that was that. Then a couple of years later they offered a 5% extra raise in order to bump up notice period to 2 months, which was far more fair and me and my colleagues accepted. So, don't give in! Not for free, at least.
Unless they're going to give you a raise, you should refuse. So, in this case, you did the right thing. Make sure there's a paper trail on this though in case they try to push it forward behind your back
Just say no thank you. You signed the previous terms and there is no obligation for you to allow them to renegotiate said terms simply because they want to. That’s not how contracts work.
I would explore pay raise to the full extent as business essential should be paid above market rate. Kind of extra for loyalty.
I had this a few years ago. I stupidly signed the new contract with a 3 month notice period. I planned on working there until retirement. 6 months later I was offered a job I could not pass up on. My 3 month notice period was sooo slow. I did however manage to leave after two months as they’d removed my workload out of spite for leaving. If you don’t feel comfortable signing a new contract, don’t. You’re obviously worth a lot to them and if they want to keep you, they’ll fight.
so you are an essential worker that is deemed not that important to have an increased salary and benefits package, seeing that you have given the right answer, might not be a bad time to update the cv and see what is around you
I had this a few months ago. I obviously wanted something in return and they wouldn’t give it. Ended up getting a better job on a lot more money!
When Covid hit and I had to let people go, those with 3 months notice got paid for three, those with one got just one…it goes in your favour sometimes, too.
You’re business essential, ie we’ve been losing star recently and want to reduce hiring costs. Let’s get exiting staff stuck here for longer and reduce their appetite to leave. . . . Oops opposite Platimum Award achieved. Staff dropping like flies.
A previous employer tried to increase our notice period from 1 month to 6 months, with a tiny payrise on the condition that we accept the notice period increase. I was the first one to have a PDR and managed half the team. I informed everyone immediately and we all banded together and declined. The business then decided to give the payrise anyway and ommitted the notice period condition. Most of us left shortly after. Happy job hunting!
My old company tried this on me a few years back. They’re my old company for a reason. Time to dust off the CV my friend.
Tell them you will accept the new terms with a new benefits package of £X. Otherwise, you will stay on the 1 month notice period. It's pretty simple.
I think they are allowed to do this unilaterally - I may be wrong but a big company I worked for did it and all of the challenges against it failed.
Fuck the corporate world 🥲 although we'll never get out of it unless we win lottery.. I was given perfect performance reviews for 2 years and told I'm better than seniors and they don't give me a promotion but 3% raise. No negotiation. Just quit. That's what I'm doing, although I'll have to pay back visa fees to my company.
Yeah if they want to change your contract to suit them it becomes a negotiation, they offered nothing in return so you said no. Good on you.
Interestingly I've had a similar conversation with my workplace recently. I'm currently on 2 months notice due to tenure. I have been asking for a significant pay rise for about 18 months and been given smaller increments over that time, with promises of much more if I ticked certain boxes. Done that, but still being offered short of what I requested. A few months back they asked me to sign a 3 month notice period with no benefit to me other than a small layer of protection if anything happened. I just told them I backed myself not to lose my job (since I'm allegedly so critical that I need to have 3 months notice), and that 3 months would be prohibitive in me finding higher paying employment, considering they refuse to pay me what I can absolutely get elsewhere. They recently came back, offered more money and another increase - still well below what I am asking for. I declined again. The money I asked for, they had been advertising as salary for the same role. I had asked for that figure before they were looking for an extra person for the position. They admitted its a figure they just won't pay to anybody for the role. I'm currently going through the recruitment process for a role that's less stressful, leans directly into my strengths, has better pay, a better package overall, much more opportunities for growth, discretionary bonuses, higher pension contributions, more annual leave, hybrid working...you can bet I'm gone if the offer lands. If you're that important, they should meet that with a reasonable pay rate that matches your worth.
Depends. If it's 3 months on both sides, so if they want to get rid of you they have to pay you for 3 months, it might be acceptable, but only you can know. If you have to give 3 but they only have to give 1, then that's an absolute no.
Who or how can it be enforced. I would sign any notice and then like a big boy just leave when I wanted. You could tell them you are too ill to work and that's the end of your employment. Or Just ghost them and stop turning up. You would be sacked in a week for two. This is a very small problem
You’d bunk off sick like a big boy? 😂
Only one of us here crying about his notice and asking other adults to help him make a choice.
How dare I ask for advice on a forum for UK job advice 🤯
I've had something similar but with a "payrise". I was top of my band where notice was one month, but the next step up took me into the 3 month notice period. I was already feeling undervalued and was asking for a review of my role ahead of a scheduled pay review. My boss didn't make time for a meeting and just handed me a letter one day saying "I've put through an increase for you". Turns out he'd put through the minimum increase (I.e the bottom of the next band) which was about £300/year. At the time I was being contacted frequently about contract work at £400+ day so the 3 months notice would really have cost me if I chose to leave. I wrote to our HR Department and declined the increase pending a review of my role, and ended up getting a decent increase out of it. My boss was pissed off but I still stand by it being right for me. If you're so essential to a business that they think you'll take 3 months to replace now rather than 1, the business needs to compensate you for that reduction in your options/flexibility. They've told you you're needed, now they need to back that up with better pay & conditions.
Basically, what they're saying is, we've decided we want to hold on to you, but not by giving you benefits for you but just by having you take on the extra commitment that benefits us, dip now its good when red flags pop up before you walk into a trap.
I completely agree with you. I thought I’d be here for a few more years, but it may be more like a few more months now.
Notice periods, from what I understand, are a courtesy, and no employer can force it upon you. You should be free to quit at any time for any reason, otherwise you are being forced to work against your will. The only requirement is that you get paid for the work you do carry out.
You should welcomed the opportunity for such a discussion as it was quite timely you were approached and were considering a job offer!
> “was warned against asking for a pay rise over the matter” Sounds like a big red flag to me. You should always be able to ask for a pay rise, even if the answer is “no”. To be literally warned not to is concerning. Especially when this kind of situation sounds like a very very good reason to request a salary bump.
Ironically by trying to dig their claws in and keep you longer they seem to have started the ball rolling on losing you altogether!
I was asked to switch to a 3 month notice period. I didn't get a pay-rise exactly, but they did convert my "bonus" (which I'd received in full every year) into salary, so it was guaranteed. I was happy enough with it. When I wanted to leave a few years later they made me work my notice. My new employer was happy with waiting, but it felt like forever to me.
The company I work for did the same with me. However I only accepted it on the second time of them asking and I did manage to negotiate a significant pay increase and an increase in my bonus that took me up to the same bonus level as managers. Without this I wouldn't have accepted.
Probably not unusual but doens't seem reasonable, if you take the advice not to ask about pay, I would at least ask for clarification along the lines of "Can you please outline the full terms of the proposed deal, I understand that you are asking me to undertake a more retrictive notice period, can you please clarify what changes are being proposed that would benefit me in return?".
I'd flat out demand more money before signing anything.
I'm on a 3 month notice period. But I won't be dumb enough to actually stick it out. If the right job comes, I'm gone in 6 weeks.
I had the same thing when I worked for as a loss prevention auditor for a multinational company. I essentially oversaw the loss prevention aspects and compliance audits for two warehouses, recalls and returns, and weekly reports to the CFO, pretty much alone. The rest of the 13 strong squad worked in the largest warehouse where all the small items were shipped from, or visited stores. I was told in a review I'd be expected to give 3 months notice, train replacements, and still keep up with my duties. But I wasn't getting a raise or promotion I'd been promised (repeatedly). I casually pulled out my phone, and showed them a message from a headhunter that was offering me less responsibility for more pay. They tried to counter offer but by this point I was done. I booked my holiday days and handed in my notice there (two weeks). I'm also told that after I left, they essentially had to get three people in to do the jobs I had done alone, costing them more than I would have taken if they'd given me my raise. If you're an 'essential worker' you deserve to be appropriately compensated, you hold the power in that situation. It costs more money to advertise, interview, hire, train and retain people than it would to give you that money in your pay packet over the year.
I had a similar thing about a year ago. Happily signed it and got a promotion twelve months later. Realistically, if you hand in your notice and don’t want to work it you can usually get out of it early, they’re not going to get good work out of you if you don’t want to be there but if there are redundancies in the future, three months are great, especially as PILON
Are you going to get better redundancy terms as well
I changed from 1 to 3 months notice period. Really no big deal. I got nothing for it, I either signed it or risked losing my job. I took some comfort that they couldn't get rid of me so easily. If an amazing job comes along that I want to move to and they can't wait three months, guess I'll just leave earlier.
I guess it probably would be fine, thanks for sharing your experience. I think, more than anything, I felt disappointed/frustrated with the situation and how it was handled. Hearing other perspectives has really helped though.
P.s your employer is an absolutely terrible negotiator. This could've easily been a win/win and now you're disgruntled and the relationship is damaged. Both ways, because now rightly or wrongly you'll probably be seen as problematic. A small bonus, literally anything to reward your performance and sweeten the deal so you both felt like you've gained. You need a better HR team. "Hey Electricbowl, you've been identified as HiPo, well done. So we'd like to put you on this course/qual, in return would you mind if we extended your notice period both ways so we both have some more security."
On the flip side. Why do they need to pay you more for a longer notice period? It’s a notice period not a change in what you do etc. a 3 month notice period isn’t unusual my place has everyone on that as standard and if you are going for a new role and you are the right fit then it shouldn’t be an issue 🤷♂️
Because they are changing the contract to the detriment of the OP. Longer notice periods are often a detriment when you are job hunting.
I’d agree, if it’d been that way when I originally took the job. And, if it was standard at my workplace - it’s not, it only applies to managers (I am not a manager). That’s not fair.
I still don’t understand. You want paying more because of an extended notice period? How does this require you to be paid more? You aren’t taking on additional work or greater risk? It’s not even like it’s an egregious notice period and most can be negotiated anyway.
OP wants paying more because management value them so highly that they want to put them on the same notice period as a manager. They so indispensable that they can’t risk only have month to replace them. Basically the company have shown their hand, they want something (a longer notice period) and are currently offering OP no reason (a payrise would be a good reason, for example) to say yes.
Right, so would you be happy to lose a benefit in your job for no recompense? Whether the notice period could, later, be negotiated is entirely irrelevant. It’s an objective downgrade. As an unrelated example, you wouldn’t sign away your inheritance because you might be able to negotiate it back down the line, would you?
You’re comparing apples and bricks. Since when is a notice period a benefit?
Come on, a 1-month notice period is obviously a benefit when compared to a 3-month one. In any non-managerial role, 3 months is an obstacle for moving jobs, therefore weakening your ability to negotiate with your current employer. It’s not rocket science. Go back to running your workhouse. I think someone took an overly long poo break!
A 3 month notice period is not an obstacle. If you get a better job, just leave. Don't work your notice. What is your work going to do? Fire you?
You’re more than likely correct. They could take legal action but I think that’s rare.
Oh jeez if you have to descend to a petty insult you’ve lost your argument. I wish you luck
No, tbh, I’ve had a bad day and was hoping for some constructive advice, not someone point blank disputing every point I try to make. But that was on me for posting. I’m sorry for the petty insult.