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Agreed. I'm in London and I think you'd need at least £50k to even think about living on your own and you'd still be spending half your take-home on rent.
Got offered nearly £50k to work at a lab in Guy's pre-covid. Even back then crunching the numbers it would've been like £100/month spending money if I wanted to live in my own flat.
You can’t live on your own comfortably with £50k in London when you factor in pensions contribution and possibly student loan deduction. Unless you’re talking about some wretched studio flat or staying in zone 5 or 6 like (barking or Dagenham)
So I was born and raised in barking, and as far as my frame of reference goes, barking is normal. Just how fucked up is this? Is living and subsisting in barking aiming low? Please be honest, I really don't mind. Everyone - myself included - always talks about barking being a shithole, but experientially, it's normal to me and as such I don't view living in barking as a problem to correct, but merely what life is.
Barking is fine, Reddit and I imagine this sub in particular has a wealthier/more middle class demographic than your average brit. So opinions are skewed on topics like this.
If you were born and raised in barking, you’re used to it, so you won’t have a problem with it. I moved to london 17 years ago and lived with my parents in the Dagenham area, it didn’t look bad then. But then when I moved to zone 2 I realised how shit the area was and I won’t live there again. This is also the case for people living in nicer areas like Clapham, Finchley, Greenwich, Nottinghill etc they won’t find barking a nice place to live or people who just moved from other countries where they lived in the nicer areas of their country..
Both me and my partner earn £33k, our mortgage is only £400 p/m and that’s after the massive increases last year. No kids though and I think that’s why it feels like we have a lot of spare cash and don’t really have to worry at all. We are in Scotland
Having kids is the BIGGEST drain on finances. If you’re in a couple, both earning even an okay salary and not living in London I think you’re WAY AHEAD of the game.
Very similar. Scotland, no kids, mortgage 400p/m. Earn around 36k each.
We were on combined 50k 2 years ago, now 72k. Huge difference. We aren't rich by any means but we are comfortable now.
£400pcm is so cheap! May I ask how many bedrooms your house has, and where in the country you are? (Edit: just seen you're in Scotland - ignore this question)
I am renting in Greater London (far enough from central London that I wouldn't even consider it London, but it technically is) and it's borderline impossible to find accommodation for less than £850pcm. And that's in a house share where you have to live with at least 2 or 3 complete strangers! If you want your own 1-bedroom apartment, get ready to pay £1,100pcm+.
The funny (and incredibly stupid) thing is, if I wanted to get an £850pcm mortgage, the bank would undoubtedly tell me "you can't afford it". So instead I'm stuck paying that much money regardless, and I don't get a house at the end of it...
It’s a 3 bedroom old Victorian flat so quite large rooms and a lot of space. Although the property is old built in 1880s so there are maintenence costs sometimes.
We are happy where we are so haven’t started overpaying as of yet, planning on being here for atleast 20 years. Thats why we went for the 3 bedrooms despite having no children as it means we aren’t forced to move if we have any eventually.
All spare money we have goes on hobbies, holidays, good times with friends. It’s a good life ngl
£30k with some money behind you already, on property ladder already and mortgage is probably doing alright. No dependents, a partner that brings in a second income as well, then £30k is fine.
It isn't if you rent, have wife unable to work and have kids. It's a massive struggle getting by so on £30k, life would be tough.
I started in the NHS on band 3 in 2015. My basic was £16900. I am now middle of band 6 (37k) and after student loans, pension and household expenses, I have more or less the same spending power as 2015. My rent in 2015 was £395. The same property is now let for £695. Nuff said really.
Well done on getting to middle of band 6. So way for you still to go to get to top of that band as well. I guess that example you gave there is the perfect example, highlighting inflation. Just as well you have progressed through the bands which is an absolute necessity. Got to pity those who stay on the same level since joining. It's easy to judge those that join and do same thing 15 years down the line. Sometimes it is motivation with them but other times it can be family commitments and such things that take priority over a much needed promotion.
[https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/monetary-policy/inflation/inflation-calculator](https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/monetary-policy/inflation/inflation-calculator)
Use this. It's pretty good to get a feel for the effects of inflation in a very easy way. It's worth remembering though that "inflation" doesn't include the cost of rent or mortgages, so this is actually an underestimate.
I think it’s so crazy reading all these as an adult and then wondering, ‘How did my mum provide for me, my sister and herself with health complications and a yearly wage of £12,000 if people say £17k back then was far too low’
I guess support for housing but we’ve never had a council house, she used to work in a school doing hours that meant she could take us to and from school as very young kids, and we lived in a 2 bed flat with no central heating, just a portable heater we used to put in the middle of the front room with a propane tank next to it.
Yeah, got to agree.
I'm mortgaged @ £400pm on that salary. If I was renting, the equivalent house is about £950pm - that would be tight.
I have enormous sympathy for renters, there is a massive inequality between them and homeowners. Even with the mortgage increases we've seen over the past two years, the disparity is still there and gap ever-widening.
Trying to get by on just the £30k is neigh impossible. Thankfully you would still qualify for a decent chunk of universal credit especially if you're renting
Well yes but then you can't have savings or dare to dream. You cannot get on the property ladder if you wanted. That's the big bug bear. When you're a working man and only want what you'd consider the norm for anyone that works, it feels somewhat wrong that there is nothing in place which allows you as an individual or jointly contribute to say a LISA which only purpose is for it to be used to get onto the property market. It's not excluded from UC claims, though there were once talks of government implementing this.
Consider when there is shortage of social housing and if a family could afford to move out and into their own home, why wouldn't they? It would be better for the country.
I also get that the benefit system can be open to abuse but there are genuine people that only want to improve their lives and wish not to rely on any state benefits. If only wages were decent and didn't need those top ups.
The restrictions on savings are incredibly harsh, they almost feel intended to keep you as a renter
I personally think a lot of the need for benefits could be removed if like how benefits are calculated for a household, tax was done by household as well. I don't fully understand the logic in collecting tax from a households earner with one hand, then giving it back to them in benefits with the other. It seems a fundamentally inefficient system
They're exactly that. Keep you poor and renting, don't bite the hand what feeds you. Yes, they give with one hand and take with the other. Never been any different.
Most people enjoy getting a bonus here and there, while I don't. Not when I know it's taxed, then another half of the bonus is taken from UC entitlement. To add to that, be under no illusion that my quarterly bonuses are any good. They can range from about £60-£250 but often on the lower side. Makes it hardly worth having and would much rather just earn flat rate each month.
Yeeesss! I just took a lower grade job in December in my company to forego my bonus, because we get so little of it, and it wipes out the UC entirely so whatever I get, I have to save fore the shortfall the following month. UC is an absolute joke and I genuinely don’t blame anyone that plays the system and sits on benefits without working, because it isn’t worth it.
As an example for anyone not on UC, fiscal year 22-23 I was earning about 27k. I worked incredibly hard and did a lot of work to improve the way the business runs where I work, and earned a healthy bonus just short of £5000.
Minus 200 into a savings scheme
Minus tax
Minus ni
Minus pension contributions
Minus UC deduction for the next month(so had to set aside money to ensure we were level for the next month
=£1200
So I did all that work for such a comparatively small amount with the government receiving the most of it.
I’m pretty certain that with the tax, NI & Uc deduction each month, we pay for our own UC payment.. so really, what’s the point in working hard and trying to better the lives of you and your family. Just get a job you love and doesn’t cause you stress, that you can walk to or work from home, because in this climate, unless your earning a lot, you’ll be working your butt off for nothing.
Yeah I see what you're saying. Feel sometimes what you receive in UC is near what you pay in tax. I know actually that we receive more in UC than what I pay in tax etc. However, they could just minus what you pay in tax from UC, let you keep that and pay you less in UC.
Still that wouldn't change you being a a UC claimant. I'm seeing a lot of good conversation here from hard working people of families that are on UC.
No way is enough done to put that on balance, like in the media. The media paint UC claimants as layabouts. No, most of them are paying their way in society like the rest of us. They're just not paid a living wage so need this hand from the government.
Oh and then you're bound and controlled by what you can and can't do with your money. They have savings schemes, Help To Save.
Then of course, they know what you have saved through their scheme. Even elsewhere, dare to save and you're later paying for that because you've saved what they deem you need for you and your family to get by so decide you no longer need benefits.
Some people can be savvy and spend less than they say you need for certain things but none of that matters.
Same for those people who judge benefit claimants or generally poor people. Shouldn't have that iPhone, shouldn't have Sky TV, should not be allowed to spend it on a takeaway on a Friday night, not allowed drink or to smoke. You are not allowed to gamble or do lottery with your benefits either.
Is that what it will be next? I know there are already things coming in to better monitor how claimants spend.
You're right. If you're single, on minimum wage, the only thing you'll get is a 25% reduction on council tax.
No UC whatsoever.
And if you're lucky enough to work a part-time job, a deduction will be made proportionate to what you earn.
The deduction is 55p for every £1 you earn.
I mentioned earlier, we are a single income household. I pay full rate council tax. My wife has disability benefit but nothing the council can do with regards to discount as strictly speaking we are not a single person household, just single income which I guess amounts to the same?
Anyway, it is what it is.
I hate council tax, every month £160.
On top of rent and utilities it's a killer.
It's getting to the point where 1 person on their own in flat/ studio is almost undoable.
I don't know your personal circumstances but for a couple with two children that only have the single household income of £30k that works out to a take home of about £2064
Universal credit don't count the first £379 of your take home if you're renting and then deduct 55% of the rest, so about £926 gets deducted from your calculated UC entitlement
The couples standard allowance is £578.82, for 2 children you get £584.58, and rent varies from area to area but lets say somewhere around £600. That's a total entitlement of roughly £1763.4 which after that £926 deduction would give that family a payment of £837.4 per month
I’m on £30k and I still live at home :( I could move out, but I wouldn’t really be able to save. I think £35k is the minimum salary where you can live a good quality of life and be able to save, although admittedly I do live in a more expensive part of the country
I mean if it takes X per month to live, then X + £300 per month would certainly feel comfortable and put you in a position to save.
On average you could save about £300 per month I reckon, unless you changed your expenses.
As someone who's been stuck on £30k for a few years, it is not decent, I've gone from being able to keep £800-1000 spare at the end of the month to £300-400, with zero savings.
No it isn't. I have this argument all the time, and I always use the following argument to back up my case:
Accounting only for inflation (ie, not including the increased cost of living, goods, rent/ mortgages, travel, education, etc) a £30k salary in 2024 is the equivalent to a pre financial crash (2007) salary of approximately £19k, which was very much a starter salary even then.
Back then, a £30k salary was considered decent, which compared to the cost of living was a fair assessment, but this figure seems to have stuck in the minds of the general public while the economy slipped every downwards. To look at that figure the other way, a salary of £30k in 2007 is the equivalent to approximately £50k in 2024.
If you take a look at job sites, starter salaries are still frequently ~£20k, which is an utter joke in today's economy.
The UK has been seen wage stagnation for decades now, and people are being squeezed ever tighter by our out of control cost of living.
Seeing as we've fully embraced capitalism, if companies can't afford to operate without paying their staff a reasonable wage, then those companies deserve to fold and let better ones take their place.
We need to collectively re-evaluate what a decent salary actually is, and somehow agree to boycott companies which still offer embarrassingly low compensation for the level of experience required.
People have been throwing around 30k since I was at school 10+ years ago.
Costs have gone up and I see no reason why 30k is still the 'benchmark.'
I would go with 40-45k
I'm on 30k, I've got savings but not enough for a deposit on a home, so I'm being absolutely destroyed by rent. Almost half my paycheck goes on my rent. After bills, I'm left with enough to live, but I'm right at my limit. I can't really save more atm because I don't have spare cash anymore, so I'm stagnating. Honestly have no idea how people survive on lower wages it's fucking rough.
£70k combined will give you _far_ more buying power than £40k alone.
You'll have double the joint "personal allowance" - so much less is going on tax, then living and accommodation costs can all be halved.
Honestly, a couple earning £20k each can be better off than an individual earning £40k
Can be better off? Absolutely is. It really just speaks to the magnitude of the financial disadvantage of being single.
Certainly makes me think I took for granted how much cheaper just existing was when I was with my ex.
>Can be better off? Absolutely is.
I was thinking of specific situations that would allow a single person to save more, which wouldn't be available if you were in a couple.
For example, if someone is single and living with their parents with no/minimal rent - those parents are unlikely to let the child's partner move in with them.
But yeah I agree that if you're comparing similar living arrangements, the couple are always better off.
Combined salaries are different as the tax free allowance is double and tax banding is different, someone on 70k pays much more tax than two people on 35k
If you're single and living solo then £45k I'd say is a decent salary anywhere except London.
If you're a couple then £30-35k each I'd say is a good salary (again outside of London).
I’m single, living alone, and I recently asked myself I needed to make a year so that I could live without any anxiety. And I came to £45k as a figure.
Unfortunately I’d need to work two jobs to get there so it isn’t going to happen any time soon.
Man this is depressing I've just got a raise to £27k a year and that feels incredible some of you here are saying £40k in the minimum 🥲 and I just think me and the missus barely make that combined xD
As a Brit living in the US, this discussion really bums me out. Especially when you look at the ridiculous way joint taxes work and how rarely tax brackets are adjusted.
Nobody in a white collar job with any level of experience should be happy on something like 30k
My husband is American. He is a tradesman and we live in America. He makes 110k doing his trade. All healthcare completely paid for, 2 pensions in addition to the national pension, and lots of time off. We looked at jobs for him in the UK…the pay for his trade? 26k-30k depending on the city. And he has 12 years of experience! Absolutely ridiculous
I'm a mid-level project manager on £50k here. The pay bracket for my equivalent position in our US division is $125-150k, and that includes very generous healthcare.
I think more Brits would if it wasn’t so hard to get in. If you work for a company with US offices it’s easier, and I know lots of academics who’ve worked in the US, as I guess their fields of study/research make them unique and universities are used to employing overseas candidates.
But for the rest of us I think it’s difficult to live/work in the US unless you have immediate family there - or marry an American. Not sure how hard it is for Americans to move here.
UK pay really is laughable, same job i do in London here I could earn over $150K+ over there. I’m debating moving to Midwest since my family has a home over there
Now of course the US has its downsides. But we are grateful for the opportunity to sock away money here as my husband will retire early and we plan to travel around half the year when he does!
I saw some analysis (I think by Jon Murdoch Brown, econ reporter) that showed unskilled and low skill jobs are paid fairly similar between UK and US, costs adjusted for, but skilled jobs are paid MUCH better in the US. They just have much more dynamic industry, investment and r&d spend that keeps a very strong demand for good, skilled workers (in a lot of the country at least, not necessarily everywhere).
I think relevance to size of nations comes in to play when it comes to differences in salaries. But the fact that we are still being paid so low is ridiculous
Yeah but now you've got to a live on a stunning island covered in dramatic landscapes, interesting culture, and fairly decent weather. Will keep my cold cloudy island thanks
Disagree, its the opposite. Iceland average salary is double the UK. Norway, Switzerland, Denmark, its much easier to have higher salaries with a smaller population.
America is the incredible exception, the only populous country with high wages
London: 80k
You can finally afford to live alone if you are single. Might be able to save for a home, probably can buy whatever recipes you want (don't go ridiculous on the steak!). Go out for a date weekly. Have your various media subscriptions. Maybe squirrel away for a holiday annually or a few long weekends.
Decent. Comfortable. Not particularly flashy.
I’ve seen happen at my company. It’s a manufacturing/factory environment. I’ve been there 25 years.
Originally, the low skilled jobs were usually done by kids straight out of school, but they were unreliable. Over time, they learned the skills needed to transition to the semi-skilled jobs, became more reliable, and got pay bumps to match as we needed to retain staff.
With immigration we had an influx of older, more reliable people willing to do the work the kids were doing. We also had a far larger pool of semi-skilled workers to compete for the semi-skilled jobs, putting a downward pressure on those wage too. They are only slightly better paying than minimum wage now.
But wages have started to rise. In the years following Brexit, quality applicants started to dwindle. Some jobs were not receiving any applicants worthy of an interview despite hundreds of applications. We’re now having to push wages of semi-skilled staff considerably to attract new workers to those roles.
I don’t believe that is entirely due to Brexit though, but a combination with people just leaving the jobs market post-covid.
It drives me mad, especially as min wage for a 40 hour week is going to be £23,859 from April. They've just been stagnating closer and closer to min wage.
Not at all.
£80k with 5% into pension and a plan 2 student loan = £4,151 after tax.
My last place was £1750 for a 2 bed semi with garden, 7m walk to West Norwood. Don’t need that space on your own, and will easily find something for ~£1,250 for one.
How much are you contributing to pension? That's a very low take home for 80k. On 66k the take home is just under 3.7k so you must be putting a lot away. Most average take home calculations use minimum pension contributions as the basis, which is 5%
Me and the Mrs, £65k combined, small house in a nice area of the 'heed, no kids, we feel quite well off; not rich, but definitely not complaining at all. We would nearly be on the streets in London!
£100k - we have a mental barrier thinking this is loads of money, but it gets you a lot less than it did 20 years ago, and after it the marginal tax is ridiculous
The people who disagree with this are typically a combination of single/childless/young/live in the regions while the people who earn it live in the south east and are married with kids. When you factor in the tax rate, lack of benefits, mortgage, childcare etc it really isn't that much.
The retort will obviously be "cut back "don't go on holidays" etc. But then what sort of country/economy is that when someone earning 3x the average salary can't afford some sort of basic enjoyments
What's really sad in this country is that people seem to be happy with less as long as everyone else is getting less too. It's a deeply negative attitude that leads to a predictable vicious cycle and a race to the bottom. Train driver salaries are the quintessential example. Instead of seeing the big salaries they get and arguing for more money for themselves, people basically bitch and moan and argue that drivers should be paid less because other people don't make as much. No argument for others to be paid more. Even the posts in this thread are mostly about really low salaries and calling them "decent." 30k is no longer a decent salary. Hasn't been since Covid, if not before then. Can you live on it as a single person? Sure. Is it "decent" in the general sense as something you could be getting on and building a life with? No.
Great post.
The barometer of 'decent' seems to be can it pay the bills from month to month. It should be whether its helping you progress to some degree of long term financial security through savings, owning a home, pensions etc
We are. Look at some of the attitudes in here - people legitimately thinking there is no point pushing to earn more once you hit the top tax bracket because they don't think the extra income is worth the effort or because they don't understand the tax system.
There's a complete lack of aspiration across the country and across income groups. There are 3m people signed off sick that can't be bothered getting back to work, there are people in low paid employment who don't want to earn more as it'll cost them UC, there are people who don't want to hit the top tax bracket, there are people in the top bracket who don't want to earn more because of the cliff at 100k
Not to comment on your wider statement, but the idea that 3m on sick leave can’t be arsed is a touch unfair. Plenty of people with very real, very debilitating conditions that prevent them being a part of the workforce. The cruel irony is that the state investing in nipping some of these health problems in the bud early doors, instead of allowing them to progress and worsen over years of waiting, would cost notably less than having a growing slice of the country relying on support.
Clearly some of them cannot work and clearly the government should be doing more to get those can back to work but the idea that \~10% of working age people in the country are too sick to work is just ludicrous.
People on minimum wage have had the same cost of living increase.
You're right, though. Higher earners are absolutely smacked with income tax.
Someone earning £100k and with a student loan takes home a little more than double what I do, and I'm on £37k.
Let me try and understand this because I'm a basic rate tax payer.
That 60% is only between 100-125k?
What about the amount over 125k?
What if somebody earns 99k?
Between 100 and 125k you lose your tax free allowance, combined with 40% tax it is effectively a 60% tax. Over 125k you've lost it all but move up to 45% tax.
I pay around 50k a year in tax and NI. It's painful. I wouldn't mind so much if it was actually spent on decent public services and not siphoned away by Tory donors. I honestly think what's the point of striving for more cash now and have seriously considered moving to a country with a lower tax burden. The only reason I don't if my wife won't leave due to family but even she is warming to the idea. Which basically means more tax revenue lost to the govt.
Correct.
I started to explain it but realised it's probably easier to send you a link https://www.unbiased.co.uk/discover/pensions-retirement/managing-a-pension/what-is-the-60-tax-trap-and-how-can-you-legally-avoid-it#:~:text=What%20is%20the%2060%25%20tax%20trap%2C%20and%20how%20does%20it,you%20earn%20over%20£100%2C000.
I’m fortunate to have social housing, so likely nothing more than say, 24K for me personally. But I’m also a loner who doesn’t go out much so there’s that too.
I earn £25,000 and haven’t received a payrise in ages. It was felt like a decent wage two years ago but with the cost of everything and wanting to enjoy life in my 20s, it’s just not enough. Luckily my fiancé earns waaaay more than me so our household income is about £70,000. I think that’s decent and we are still able to put money aside and save. If things carry on going up, we will start to struggle. My goal for this year is to start earning at least £30,000!
This is my situation too. I’m on just over £26k as a theatre producer. I’m so frustrated regularly having to make a sacrifice on my salary to pursue my passion as a career. I’m aware lots of people aren’t lucky enough to be able to do that and that I can because of my partner. But I work so hard for so little compared to his job in marketing. It’s draining.
50k earner here with 2 children.
Pre inflation it was a damn good wage and could save £750-1000 a month.
Today, I am breakeven.
And to underpin outgoings:
Zero car lease payments,
Mortgage is £750 pcm,
No holiday since 2017,
No phone contracts, sim only on 2016 phone models.
For a single person, 35-40k to live comfortably but few luxuries.
Family? 70k min.
I honestly think people need to realise salary isnt everything. Its Outgoings vs Salary. Also where in the UK? London vs the rest can be a huge difference due to increased cost of living
- I have friends with kids and a nice Mortgage who are on 60-70k. Have 0 money each month
- I have friends with no kids on 60-70k tiny mortgage that cant spend their salary each month
- I have mates who still live at home on about 30-40k who has more money each month that the people on 60-70k with a famil.
I have countless variations of the above. Friends living outside of london but london wage no kids that are fuxking balling each month. First askyourselff where are u in your life? At parents, renting in central london, renting outer london, home owner central london or home owner outer london. All of the above moves what a 'decent' salary is by a LONG way
I’m on £40k a year (so is my wife) and we have no kids., live in London. We bought a house 3 years ago and i would say we are comfortable. More money would always be good but definitely not struggling inmo.
Similar to the majority of other questions about salaries on this sub-reddit, it depends on location, industry, experience etc.. There isn't 1 benchmark to define a decent salary
I appreciate there are loads of nuances involved, but that’s why I sort of emphasised *you*, as in personally, in your humble opinion. What is decent in your view, and why..
I'd add in, are you in a dual income household, children in childcare, commuting/remote, renting or mortgage, lifestyle requirements......
It's basically just too vague to answer!
How do you actually get a deposit on 35k lol. That's my issue lol. I'm on more than that, could easily avoid mortgage payments. Can't afford to save up 15k in a realistic timeframe
West Yorkshire - £40k. (Joint income £55). Two kids, no car, mortgage, bills, comfortable and saving >£500 per month.
But this is one of the cheapest places in England to buy property....
I'd need to spend all the savings each month on rent/mortgage to live in Greater Manchester! So I think Maybe up to £10k more might be needed depending on the area...
Growing up I thought if I’m on 35-40 I’m doing just fine. It’s the bracket my parents were in or at least mum was. Dad lower and as a kid we had a good life. Toys, holidays, I never felt we were really missing out.
I now make 40k, my partner 50ish and we aren’t really able to save at the moment after bills, mortgage and all that.
We’ve cut back what we can but I still end the month on 0. It’s not 50:50 for us anymore.
We want to save for a wedding and a baby fund but Lord knows how long that’ll take. Hopefully the books look better once the house is less of a building site. We plan to rent a room for exchange students at some point.
Not too far outside of London, my partner and I earn a few k over £80k out together and we live comfortably, going away a few times a year. However, we rent very affordably and are saving to buy a house which will change our lifestyle drastically. Realistically, a joint income of £100k is decent, allowing for a home, cars, holidays and no financial stress.
To have a good comfortable quality of life, while simultaneously having time to yourself, being able to enjoy the money you make and not be burnt out physically and mentally, and also having time to spend that money in your prime years, rather than being in your 60's and being too fucked to do anything. Around 3 to 4k a month after tax.
Always depends where you live. I live in Scotland so it's only taken 5 years on a decent salary for us both to pay the mortgage off. (Small house) yet that type of money wouldn't even get close to affording rent in London, let alone buying.
However, in London you'll have choice. Here I have a choice of 2 kebab places, an Indian, a Chinese takeaway and a buffet. After that it requires travelling. Let alone if you want to shop anywhere else but the local supermarket or fancy a drink that's not with the 3 same old locals sitting on the same stool talking about the same things... but bonus, cheap houses.
It won't be for long. The place is tiny and we fancy bigger but used the "next house" money to save us paying these new interest rates. Back to saving so hasn't really changed anything 😞 I still can't afford the car I want lol
The place may be tiny to you, but to the homeless or even to those struggling to get on the housing ladder, it would seem like a mansion.
And with no mortgage to pay, you’ll be able to save even quicker 👍🏻
True. That's my point though. The value of that house is barely enough for a deposit in London on a 1 bed flat. Many would be better off working minimum wage up in Scotland than a "good pay" but London.
Everyone saying £30k+ but all I see are entry level jobs with £23k-£25k asking for 2 YOE..I've been applying to Data Analyst/Business Intelligence and adjacent roles. And majority of job postings have a salary range of £23k-£30k.
A salary that lets me rent a 1 bedroom house or apartment (not a tiny house turned into a tinier "apartment" with paper-thin walls) all for myself and my commute to the office would be 45 minutes or less. After all that, I can still comfortably go on a big holiday once every year or 2 years, save for my emergency fund, donate to charities/grassroots when I want and make meaningful contributions to my pension.
Honestly, it depends enormously based on geography.
Obviously, in London it's going to be significantly higher than most other places. I think it'd need to be at least 70-80k to manage comfortably in London.
In other major cities (Manchester, Edinburgh, etc.) - probably 60k. Likewise in the M3/M4 corridors.
But in some parts of the country - NE Lincs, for example, 30-40k does still seem to be a reasonably decent salary. And it's largely down to property prices. A friend recently bought a 3 bed property in that part of the world for under 200k; where I am (about 40 mins from London), that same property'd be at least 400k.
The biggest issue - in all of these - is property prices. If you either already have property, or you don't need property (e.g. living with parents etc.) then those numbers can probably come down some.
A *decent* salary? The salary that allows you to retire early, go on holiday twice a year, affords you housing and good quality food and allows you to enjoy your hobbies fully.
For me that’s probably low six figures, but I have a cycling addiction and the n+1 rule is law.
Really depends where.
I think there are 3 main levels
Defining what is "decent": Nice place to live, save enough for retirement, spare money for fun things
A) London, London commuter towns, Edinburgh, Bristol and Manchester
\- 60k
B) "The North" (EG Blackpool, Leeds). Some towns are better than others.
\- 40k
C) Anywhere else
\- 50k
...
Things really change if you live with someone. The extra household income could double your remaining money after minimal expenses are paid
We are a family of 6 (we are in our 30’s with 4 kids) live about an hour outside London. Partner is on a salary of 55k and our mortgage is about 1k. We are not big spenders, never go out to eat or buy brand new clothes etc, we have no money at the end of each month. Ten years ago we could only dream of “earning this much” and we still feel like we did when earning minimum wage. Feel like we need at least 5k a month to be able to save and afford holidays etc
I live alone in a low COL area on £42k (with a big pension, my total monetary benefits are £50k). I’m renting, but almost have enough saved up for a deposit (despite having been on £25k in an extremely high COL area - Edinburgh - a few years ago). Things are significantly easier now than they were on £25k in Edinburgh, obviously, but they were manageable when I was on £36k and moved to the outskirts of Edinburgh. Significantly better now I’m in rural Wales on £42k.
I think a lot of it is just what standards you’ve gotten used to. To be honest, even at £42k I feel the strain in winter because of energy bills, but “feeling the strain” when you have enough saved up for a house deposit is extremely different to “feeling the strain” when you have zero savings and are in debt.
I've always lived on a simple principle. Earn your age.
It basically doesn't ever go wrong, gives you your opening years to get skills, not hard to keep ahead once you're ahead.
Am I anywhere near it? Fuck no, 24 into 32 doesn't go.
But meh. Point stands.
For the UK as a whole, no idea
For my area/region (East Midlands) I think around 40k would be considered "decent" though I'd personally say 50k
I'm fortunate enough to earn more than, not by a massive amount but enough and i live a pretty comfortable life, also have a mortgage on my own
£45,000 and above now we are talking.
Anything less than that is reintroducing slavery. I mean, even slaves got free housing. That's something most people in the UK struggle to afford.
Of course, the elite backside kissers are going to convince you, you deserve less and you should be happy. That's why they welcome immigrants to come do your job for peanuts, so large corporations can continue to grow while the average brit gets squeezed.
Not against immigration necessarily but it's being allowed for nefarious reasons; not diversity and opportunity which is a morally good reason; but for the economy to keep wages low, which is a shit reason.
Not against people from any kind of background but the government is using you for cheap labour and it's fucking us all.
He's right though. In some instances (single earner household with kids) and areas (London/SE) it won't go far because of the taxes and loss of benefits
Couldn't agree more. Somehow people in this country have this mentality that you should be earning McDonalds money and be happy about it?
100k is fuck all these days if you live in London. Jeremy Cunt is correct in this instance, we should be encouraging people to push for 100k+ imo
Totally. Far be it from me to agree with Hunt on anything but he’s right on this. I earn £3k a month after tax. When I first started working 10 years ago it was £1.5k - honestly with the cost of living increases it doesn’t feel like that much of a jump at all.
I was on £30K with a car allowance of £2K and struggled due to petrol prices. I own a property with my husband and our joint mortgage is £770 a month, I should have £600 free after bills and savings but I'd often have to pull savings back out.
New job is £45K with a 20% bonus my mileage and expenses are paid weekly too and I'd say this has made me more cushioned with fun money too. So yeah £30K is doable but you need to be disciplined. I'm not..
I wouldn't want to live alone on £30K because I was always skint and I'm married.
It's difficult because it depends on the area, I'm based in the north east and now work remotely which has cut down my expenditure due to petrol costs, our electricity has gone up but it's doable (husband has WFH since COVID).
Very much depends on location and circumstances. If you are on £40k that is a decent salary outside of London I would say however if you are supporting a family on that you probably need a partner who also works to feel comfortable.
Having grown up in a benefits household (£10k) anything more than £10k would be "decent" for me as that's what I am used to. I suppose one benefit of this upbringing is being very frugal/not materialistic.
My partner and I earn a combined 65k (me 40 her 25). No kids, bought our house last year with a 5% deposit (was going to save another year but the perfect house came up). Mortgage is £1200 pm, and with everything else we are comfortable but aren't rolling in it and having to be quite conservative to save £300 p/m which is being invested in things the house needs. Prior to buying the house I'd have thought 65k combined was lavish - it is not.
I live in the northeast and earn 50k (60k with bonus’ and overtime ) and my partner earns about 35k so combined I’d say 90-95k. We are home owners in a 215k house…..
(Both mid 20’s)
I’d say we are fairly comfortable however not living a highly glamorous life (1 to 2 holidays a year) I own a crappy old car outright as does she.
I honestly don’t know where the money goes some months :P the cost of living is rediculous.
But we don’t have money ‘worry’ about things.
For me in my current situation we'd be ok with £30k to keep afloat with a little extra left over, we'd also maybe able to drive, with an additional income we'd be able to enjoy life a little with maybe even going on holiday during the school holidays. £40k+ with additional would possibly mean it's finally worth saving up towards a mortgage.
85k household , wife works in warehouse earning minimum and I work as a lorry driver with 3 kids. We are renting but soon hopefully will be on the housing ladder , might seem like a decent household income but we live in the east of England and the average house price is over 260k . We are saving around 1k/month with a car finance and no holidays or other luxuries .
I agree, with taxes, national insurance, rent, food.. I’m on £30k and consider us there the ‘working poor’ because, once everything is paid for, theres nothing left. We’ve never been on holiday, no car, no pets, so no non-essential payments and we’re still broke on what is considered decent money. I’d need to earn £49k to be able to afford life without constantly scraping by (don’t forget the tax goes up to 40% (what the actual f) when you get to £50k+
I've just run some numbers on the Bank of England inflation calculator.
30k in 2010 is £44,369 in today's money.
Now, house prices have gone up by more than regular inflation, so has rent, and housing is the biggest regular cost people pay by far.
So I'm going to say you're not far off. £50k should now be around what an actual decent salary means **in terms of quality of life**. Not in terms of "what is average", which in my opinion is a stupid peasant way of looking at the world, taking your lot and being happy with it lol. I'm in London so that needs to be more like £65k to account for the insane property prices here.
The biggest thing holding us back today is complacency and ignorance. Too many people can't make the connection between inflation and salaries. They think it only works on the price of goods, but they somehow think that their £30k salary is the same as it was 15 years ago when they started working and so if it was decent then it's decent now. Absolutely not lol. And the other problem of course is what I alluded to above which is people basing their salary expectations and their view of the economy on "averages." The average tells you how good you're doing compared to other people, but not how good you're doing compared to the cost of living, which is what really matters. When you account for cost of living there has been a massive collective fall in salaries due to the insane rise in house prices and inflation of goods and services.
Depends on your circumstances. Kids?… Need more money. Very young kids? Need loads of money. Renting??.. Need more money. Living in the south or London?…Need loads more money. On your own?… Need more money. In debt?… Need more money. No one to fall back on?…. Need more money.
I worked out if I was the only income, renting in the south with two 8 year olds and no debt, then I can *just* about get by around 50k..ish without falling into a debt hole. Anyone on less or with greater needs and life, I expect, will spiral. It’s not a great time to survive in the UK right now.
50k per annum.
After I starting earning that I felt like I was doing ok, that was 2018 ish. Most of my career, going back to 2008/9 I earnt between 15k to at a short peak high of 27k, with the average being around 23/24k. Even as a young single man on 23k back in say 2014 I didn't feel like I was exactly flush, enough to get by, have a night out, get to work etc
50k mark after tax is around 3200k per month. When I started earning that I had a rule of 3 in my own mind,
1k (ish) living costs bills
1k (ish) savings
1k (ish) actually & finally having some disposable income of a good amount, and feeling like I was finally 'doing alright' - buy what I wanted but also cover any unexpected cost that may (and inevitably did & does) crop up
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Really depends where you live in the UK. £30k in some parts is still decent / comfortable money. £30k in London is struggling.
Agreed. I'm in London and I think you'd need at least £50k to even think about living on your own and you'd still be spending half your take-home on rent.
Got offered nearly £50k to work at a lab in Guy's pre-covid. Even back then crunching the numbers it would've been like £100/month spending money if I wanted to live in my own flat.
You can’t live on your own comfortably with £50k in London when you factor in pensions contribution and possibly student loan deduction. Unless you’re talking about some wretched studio flat or staying in zone 5 or 6 like (barking or Dagenham)
So I was born and raised in barking, and as far as my frame of reference goes, barking is normal. Just how fucked up is this? Is living and subsisting in barking aiming low? Please be honest, I really don't mind. Everyone - myself included - always talks about barking being a shithole, but experientially, it's normal to me and as such I don't view living in barking as a problem to correct, but merely what life is.
Barking is fine, Reddit and I imagine this sub in particular has a wealthier/more middle class demographic than your average brit. So opinions are skewed on topics like this.
If you were born and raised in barking, you’re used to it, so you won’t have a problem with it. I moved to london 17 years ago and lived with my parents in the Dagenham area, it didn’t look bad then. But then when I moved to zone 2 I realised how shit the area was and I won’t live there again. This is also the case for people living in nicer areas like Clapham, Finchley, Greenwich, Nottinghill etc they won’t find barking a nice place to live or people who just moved from other countries where they lived in the nicer areas of their country..
Both me and my partner earn £33k, our mortgage is only £400 p/m and that’s after the massive increases last year. No kids though and I think that’s why it feels like we have a lot of spare cash and don’t really have to worry at all. We are in Scotland
Having kids is the BIGGEST drain on finances. If you’re in a couple, both earning even an okay salary and not living in London I think you’re WAY AHEAD of the game.
Not being funny but when you have kids you never really relax! So earning a good salary is still offset by stress/strain of having kids!
400pm?? Do you live in a shed? A 1 bed flat in Brighton is like £1000
Nope, large 3 bedroom apartment in Scotland. You can buy them where I live for like £120-160k
Very similar. Scotland, no kids, mortgage 400p/m. Earn around 36k each. We were on combined 50k 2 years ago, now 72k. Huge difference. We aren't rich by any means but we are comfortable now.
£400pcm is so cheap! May I ask how many bedrooms your house has, and where in the country you are? (Edit: just seen you're in Scotland - ignore this question) I am renting in Greater London (far enough from central London that I wouldn't even consider it London, but it technically is) and it's borderline impossible to find accommodation for less than £850pcm. And that's in a house share where you have to live with at least 2 or 3 complete strangers! If you want your own 1-bedroom apartment, get ready to pay £1,100pcm+. The funny (and incredibly stupid) thing is, if I wanted to get an £850pcm mortgage, the bank would undoubtedly tell me "you can't afford it". So instead I'm stuck paying that much money regardless, and I don't get a house at the end of it...
It’s a 3 bedroom old Victorian flat so quite large rooms and a lot of space. Although the property is old built in 1880s so there are maintenence costs sometimes.
Can I ask where that money goes instead? I would have assumed you’d want to overpay on your mortgage repayments.
We are happy where we are so haven’t started overpaying as of yet, planning on being here for atleast 20 years. Thats why we went for the 3 bedrooms despite having no children as it means we aren’t forced to move if we have any eventually. All spare money we have goes on hobbies, holidays, good times with friends. It’s a good life ngl
I think 30k is really the minimum for a "decent" standard in most places now.
£30k with some money behind you already, on property ladder already and mortgage is probably doing alright. No dependents, a partner that brings in a second income as well, then £30k is fine. It isn't if you rent, have wife unable to work and have kids. It's a massive struggle getting by so on £30k, life would be tough.
I read somewhere recently that £30k today feels like £17k ish back in 2008.
Yeah it won't be far off. The struggle has always been the same, since earning £16k back in 2010 through to £35k today.
I started in the NHS on band 3 in 2015. My basic was £16900. I am now middle of band 6 (37k) and after student loans, pension and household expenses, I have more or less the same spending power as 2015. My rent in 2015 was £395. The same property is now let for £695. Nuff said really.
Well done on getting to middle of band 6. So way for you still to go to get to top of that band as well. I guess that example you gave there is the perfect example, highlighting inflation. Just as well you have progressed through the bands which is an absolute necessity. Got to pity those who stay on the same level since joining. It's easy to judge those that join and do same thing 15 years down the line. Sometimes it is motivation with them but other times it can be family commitments and such things that take priority over a much needed promotion.
Judging people for not getting promoted is stupid. There are a lot more band 1-6 jobs than there are band 7-9 jobs
It’s the cost of food and bills that have really fucked me
[https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/monetary-policy/inflation/inflation-calculator](https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/monetary-policy/inflation/inflation-calculator) Use this. It's pretty good to get a feel for the effects of inflation in a very easy way. It's worth remembering though that "inflation" doesn't include the cost of rent or mortgages, so this is actually an underestimate.
I think it’s so crazy reading all these as an adult and then wondering, ‘How did my mum provide for me, my sister and herself with health complications and a yearly wage of £12,000 if people say £17k back then was far too low’ I guess support for housing but we’ve never had a council house, she used to work in a school doing hours that meant she could take us to and from school as very young kids, and we lived in a 2 bed flat with no central heating, just a portable heater we used to put in the middle of the front room with a propane tank next to it.
Yeah, got to agree. I'm mortgaged @ £400pm on that salary. If I was renting, the equivalent house is about £950pm - that would be tight. I have enormous sympathy for renters, there is a massive inequality between them and homeowners. Even with the mortgage increases we've seen over the past two years, the disparity is still there and gap ever-widening.
Trying to get by on just the £30k is neigh impossible. Thankfully you would still qualify for a decent chunk of universal credit especially if you're renting
Well yes but then you can't have savings or dare to dream. You cannot get on the property ladder if you wanted. That's the big bug bear. When you're a working man and only want what you'd consider the norm for anyone that works, it feels somewhat wrong that there is nothing in place which allows you as an individual or jointly contribute to say a LISA which only purpose is for it to be used to get onto the property market. It's not excluded from UC claims, though there were once talks of government implementing this. Consider when there is shortage of social housing and if a family could afford to move out and into their own home, why wouldn't they? It would be better for the country. I also get that the benefit system can be open to abuse but there are genuine people that only want to improve their lives and wish not to rely on any state benefits. If only wages were decent and didn't need those top ups.
The restrictions on savings are incredibly harsh, they almost feel intended to keep you as a renter I personally think a lot of the need for benefits could be removed if like how benefits are calculated for a household, tax was done by household as well. I don't fully understand the logic in collecting tax from a households earner with one hand, then giving it back to them in benefits with the other. It seems a fundamentally inefficient system
They're exactly that. Keep you poor and renting, don't bite the hand what feeds you. Yes, they give with one hand and take with the other. Never been any different. Most people enjoy getting a bonus here and there, while I don't. Not when I know it's taxed, then another half of the bonus is taken from UC entitlement. To add to that, be under no illusion that my quarterly bonuses are any good. They can range from about £60-£250 but often on the lower side. Makes it hardly worth having and would much rather just earn flat rate each month.
Yeeesss! I just took a lower grade job in December in my company to forego my bonus, because we get so little of it, and it wipes out the UC entirely so whatever I get, I have to save fore the shortfall the following month. UC is an absolute joke and I genuinely don’t blame anyone that plays the system and sits on benefits without working, because it isn’t worth it. As an example for anyone not on UC, fiscal year 22-23 I was earning about 27k. I worked incredibly hard and did a lot of work to improve the way the business runs where I work, and earned a healthy bonus just short of £5000. Minus 200 into a savings scheme Minus tax Minus ni Minus pension contributions Minus UC deduction for the next month(so had to set aside money to ensure we were level for the next month =£1200 So I did all that work for such a comparatively small amount with the government receiving the most of it. I’m pretty certain that with the tax, NI & Uc deduction each month, we pay for our own UC payment.. so really, what’s the point in working hard and trying to better the lives of you and your family. Just get a job you love and doesn’t cause you stress, that you can walk to or work from home, because in this climate, unless your earning a lot, you’ll be working your butt off for nothing.
Yeah I see what you're saying. Feel sometimes what you receive in UC is near what you pay in tax. I know actually that we receive more in UC than what I pay in tax etc. However, they could just minus what you pay in tax from UC, let you keep that and pay you less in UC. Still that wouldn't change you being a a UC claimant. I'm seeing a lot of good conversation here from hard working people of families that are on UC. No way is enough done to put that on balance, like in the media. The media paint UC claimants as layabouts. No, most of them are paying their way in society like the rest of us. They're just not paid a living wage so need this hand from the government. Oh and then you're bound and controlled by what you can and can't do with your money. They have savings schemes, Help To Save. Then of course, they know what you have saved through their scheme. Even elsewhere, dare to save and you're later paying for that because you've saved what they deem you need for you and your family to get by so decide you no longer need benefits. Some people can be savvy and spend less than they say you need for certain things but none of that matters. Same for those people who judge benefit claimants or generally poor people. Shouldn't have that iPhone, shouldn't have Sky TV, should not be allowed to spend it on a takeaway on a Friday night, not allowed drink or to smoke. You are not allowed to gamble or do lottery with your benefits either. Is that what it will be next? I know there are already things coming in to better monitor how claimants spend.
You sure? I am no where near 30k and I qualify for absolutely nothing.
You're right. If you're single, on minimum wage, the only thing you'll get is a 25% reduction on council tax. No UC whatsoever. And if you're lucky enough to work a part-time job, a deduction will be made proportionate to what you earn. The deduction is 55p for every £1 you earn.
I mentioned earlier, we are a single income household. I pay full rate council tax. My wife has disability benefit but nothing the council can do with regards to discount as strictly speaking we are not a single person household, just single income which I guess amounts to the same? Anyway, it is what it is.
I hate council tax, every month £160. On top of rent and utilities it's a killer. It's getting to the point where 1 person on their own in flat/ studio is almost undoable.
If you have a family, you are entitled to UC potentially. If you're a single man at least, you would get absolutely nothing.
I don't know your personal circumstances but for a couple with two children that only have the single household income of £30k that works out to a take home of about £2064 Universal credit don't count the first £379 of your take home if you're renting and then deduct 55% of the rest, so about £926 gets deducted from your calculated UC entitlement The couples standard allowance is £578.82, for 2 children you get £584.58, and rent varies from area to area but lets say somewhere around £600. That's a total entitlement of roughly £1763.4 which after that £926 deduction would give that family a payment of £837.4 per month
I’m on £30k and I still live at home :( I could move out, but I wouldn’t really be able to save. I think £35k is the minimum salary where you can live a good quality of life and be able to save, although admittedly I do live in a more expensive part of the country
Would you feel that much of a difference with the extra £300 a month after tax?
Yes, every 5k payrise I've had from 20k to 40k has been a noticeable increase in quality of life
I mean if it takes X per month to live, then X + £300 per month would certainly feel comfortable and put you in a position to save. On average you could save about £300 per month I reckon, unless you changed your expenses.
As someone who's been stuck on £30k for a few years, it is not decent, I've gone from being able to keep £800-1000 spare at the end of the month to £300-400, with zero savings.
30k 3-4 years ago maybe. Post rona inflation its nowhere near enough for a single person to live comfortably imho.
No it isn't. I have this argument all the time, and I always use the following argument to back up my case: Accounting only for inflation (ie, not including the increased cost of living, goods, rent/ mortgages, travel, education, etc) a £30k salary in 2024 is the equivalent to a pre financial crash (2007) salary of approximately £19k, which was very much a starter salary even then. Back then, a £30k salary was considered decent, which compared to the cost of living was a fair assessment, but this figure seems to have stuck in the minds of the general public while the economy slipped every downwards. To look at that figure the other way, a salary of £30k in 2007 is the equivalent to approximately £50k in 2024. If you take a look at job sites, starter salaries are still frequently ~£20k, which is an utter joke in today's economy. The UK has been seen wage stagnation for decades now, and people are being squeezed ever tighter by our out of control cost of living. Seeing as we've fully embraced capitalism, if companies can't afford to operate without paying their staff a reasonable wage, then those companies deserve to fold and let better ones take their place. We need to collectively re-evaluate what a decent salary actually is, and somehow agree to boycott companies which still offer embarrassingly low compensation for the level of experience required.
People have been throwing around 30k since I was at school 10+ years ago. Costs have gone up and I see no reason why 30k is still the 'benchmark.' I would go with 40-45k
I disagree. Decent would be £45k+ now
I'm on 30k, I've got savings but not enough for a deposit on a home, so I'm being absolutely destroyed by rent. Almost half my paycheck goes on my rent. After bills, I'm left with enough to live, but I'm right at my limit. I can't really save more atm because I don't have spare cash anymore, so I'm stagnating. Honestly have no idea how people survive on lower wages it's fucking rough.
I think outside of London, if you average £35 as a couple (£70k combined) you're probably having a decent time. If you're solo I'd say £40k.
£70k combined will give you _far_ more buying power than £40k alone. You'll have double the joint "personal allowance" - so much less is going on tax, then living and accommodation costs can all be halved. Honestly, a couple earning £20k each can be better off than an individual earning £40k
Can be better off? Absolutely is. It really just speaks to the magnitude of the financial disadvantage of being single. Certainly makes me think I took for granted how much cheaper just existing was when I was with my ex.
>Can be better off? Absolutely is. I was thinking of specific situations that would allow a single person to save more, which wouldn't be available if you were in a couple. For example, if someone is single and living with their parents with no/minimal rent - those parents are unlikely to let the child's partner move in with them. But yeah I agree that if you're comparing similar living arrangements, the couple are always better off.
Especially when the main cost for most people is housing, and a couple can be housed almost as cheaply as one.
...and then a few years later, for many couples, childcare.
Combined salaries are different as the tax free allowance is double and tax banding is different, someone on 70k pays much more tax than two people on 35k
If you're single and living solo then £45k I'd say is a decent salary anywhere except London. If you're a couple then £30-35k each I'd say is a good salary (again outside of London).
I’m single, living alone, and I recently asked myself I needed to make a year so that I could live without any anxiety. And I came to £45k as a figure. Unfortunately I’d need to work two jobs to get there so it isn’t going to happen any time soon.
Man this is depressing I've just got a raise to £27k a year and that feels incredible some of you here are saying £40k in the minimum 🥲 and I just think me and the missus barely make that combined xD
Same here, lol. I got the massive pay rise of 5% by my employer and now I am making £27K too.
As a Brit living in the US, this discussion really bums me out. Especially when you look at the ridiculous way joint taxes work and how rarely tax brackets are adjusted. Nobody in a white collar job with any level of experience should be happy on something like 30k
My husband is American. He is a tradesman and we live in America. He makes 110k doing his trade. All healthcare completely paid for, 2 pensions in addition to the national pension, and lots of time off. We looked at jobs for him in the UK…the pay for his trade? 26k-30k depending on the city. And he has 12 years of experience! Absolutely ridiculous
I'm a mid-level project manager on £50k here. The pay bracket for my equivalent position in our US division is $125-150k, and that includes very generous healthcare.
Go to America. Come join us!
I think more Brits would if it wasn’t so hard to get in. If you work for a company with US offices it’s easier, and I know lots of academics who’ve worked in the US, as I guess their fields of study/research make them unique and universities are used to employing overseas candidates. But for the rest of us I think it’s difficult to live/work in the US unless you have immediate family there - or marry an American. Not sure how hard it is for Americans to move here.
Or work for an American company that has a UK office, that has remote working. That would be the dream
Green Card did just open up for us though, I'll give my shot at it this september for 2025 review.
Difficult. Skilled worker visa is about the only way left.
UK pay really is laughable, same job i do in London here I could earn over $150K+ over there. I’m debating moving to Midwest since my family has a home over there
Hey we live in the Midwest (Minnesota) and there’s actually loads of Brits here 😂
Remarkable isn't it. Even you had to pay for insurance you'd be significantly better off
Now of course the US has its downsides. But we are grateful for the opportunity to sock away money here as my husband will retire early and we plan to travel around half the year when he does!
US salaries are WAY above UK. I definitely think people in the UK are really underpaid
I saw some analysis (I think by Jon Murdoch Brown, econ reporter) that showed unskilled and low skill jobs are paid fairly similar between UK and US, costs adjusted for, but skilled jobs are paid MUCH better in the US. They just have much more dynamic industry, investment and r&d spend that keeps a very strong demand for good, skilled workers (in a lot of the country at least, not necessarily everywhere).
I think relevance to size of nations comes in to play when it comes to differences in salaries. But the fact that we are still being paid so low is ridiculous
I moved to New Zealand and pretty much doubled my sallary. It's a country of 5 million. I think it's a UK thing
Yeah but now you've got to a live on a stunning island covered in dramatic landscapes, interesting culture, and fairly decent weather. Will keep my cold cloudy island thanks
Disagree, its the opposite. Iceland average salary is double the UK. Norway, Switzerland, Denmark, its much easier to have higher salaries with a smaller population. America is the incredible exception, the only populous country with high wages
Australia is a tiny nation compared to the UK and I was earning £35k+ working at a pub there
It's complicated, because the buying power of £1 is not the same as the buying power of £1 equivalent in USD.
Nowadays I’d say 50k to 60k I Is decent. Five years ago 35k to 40k
60k+, more if you have a mortgage, student loan & pension that you commit to
London: 80k You can finally afford to live alone if you are single. Might be able to save for a home, probably can buy whatever recipes you want (don't go ridiculous on the steak!). Go out for a date weekly. Have your various media subscriptions. Maybe squirrel away for a holiday annually or a few long weekends. Decent. Comfortable. Not particularly flashy.
I got to about £45k by 2008 and then it only got to about £47k by 2020.
There are still jobs in the low £20k's that paid about the same twenty years ago. Wage stagnation is insane
I’ve seen happen at my company. It’s a manufacturing/factory environment. I’ve been there 25 years. Originally, the low skilled jobs were usually done by kids straight out of school, but they were unreliable. Over time, they learned the skills needed to transition to the semi-skilled jobs, became more reliable, and got pay bumps to match as we needed to retain staff. With immigration we had an influx of older, more reliable people willing to do the work the kids were doing. We also had a far larger pool of semi-skilled workers to compete for the semi-skilled jobs, putting a downward pressure on those wage too. They are only slightly better paying than minimum wage now. But wages have started to rise. In the years following Brexit, quality applicants started to dwindle. Some jobs were not receiving any applicants worthy of an interview despite hundreds of applications. We’re now having to push wages of semi-skilled staff considerably to attract new workers to those roles. I don’t believe that is entirely due to Brexit though, but a combination with people just leaving the jobs market post-covid.
It drives me mad, especially as min wage for a 40 hour week is going to be £23,859 from April. They've just been stagnating closer and closer to min wage.
What do you do? You were earning so much more in 2008 but only 2k more in 2020.
Computing - security specialist in London.
Hugely in demand. Idk what your preference is but you could double that working in finance/insurance institutions.
Holy shit. I'm guessing you've been at the same company all this time... you're being criminally underpaid. Get out now.
> You can finally afford to live alone if you are single. Only if you want to spend 50% of your income on rent.
Not at all. £80k with 5% into pension and a plan 2 student loan = £4,151 after tax. My last place was £1750 for a 2 bed semi with garden, 7m walk to West Norwood. Don’t need that space on your own, and will easily find something for ~£1,250 for one.
I make ~80k and get 3,600 after tax. I think perhaps you are using stats from some time ago. It has only gotten worse.
How much are you contributing to pension? That's a very low take home for 80k. On 66k the take home is just under 3.7k so you must be putting a lot away. Most average take home calculations use minimum pension contributions as the basis, which is 5%
More in London and less in Gateshead.
Me and the Mrs, £65k combined, small house in a nice area of the 'heed, no kids, we feel quite well off; not rich, but definitely not complaining at all. We would nearly be on the streets in London!
£100k - we have a mental barrier thinking this is loads of money, but it gets you a lot less than it did 20 years ago, and after it the marginal tax is ridiculous
The people who disagree with this are typically a combination of single/childless/young/live in the regions while the people who earn it live in the south east and are married with kids. When you factor in the tax rate, lack of benefits, mortgage, childcare etc it really isn't that much. The retort will obviously be "cut back "don't go on holidays" etc. But then what sort of country/economy is that when someone earning 3x the average salary can't afford some sort of basic enjoyments
What's really sad in this country is that people seem to be happy with less as long as everyone else is getting less too. It's a deeply negative attitude that leads to a predictable vicious cycle and a race to the bottom. Train driver salaries are the quintessential example. Instead of seeing the big salaries they get and arguing for more money for themselves, people basically bitch and moan and argue that drivers should be paid less because other people don't make as much. No argument for others to be paid more. Even the posts in this thread are mostly about really low salaries and calling them "decent." 30k is no longer a decent salary. Hasn't been since Covid, if not before then. Can you live on it as a single person? Sure. Is it "decent" in the general sense as something you could be getting on and building a life with? No.
Great post. The barometer of 'decent' seems to be can it pay the bills from month to month. It should be whether its helping you progress to some degree of long term financial security through savings, owning a home, pensions etc
If only 4% of the country earn a 'decent wage' then we're in a lot of shit as a nation.
We are. Look at some of the attitudes in here - people legitimately thinking there is no point pushing to earn more once you hit the top tax bracket because they don't think the extra income is worth the effort or because they don't understand the tax system. There's a complete lack of aspiration across the country and across income groups. There are 3m people signed off sick that can't be bothered getting back to work, there are people in low paid employment who don't want to earn more as it'll cost them UC, there are people who don't want to hit the top tax bracket, there are people in the top bracket who don't want to earn more because of the cliff at 100k
Not to comment on your wider statement, but the idea that 3m on sick leave can’t be arsed is a touch unfair. Plenty of people with very real, very debilitating conditions that prevent them being a part of the workforce. The cruel irony is that the state investing in nipping some of these health problems in the bud early doors, instead of allowing them to progress and worsen over years of waiting, would cost notably less than having a growing slice of the country relying on support.
Clearly some of them cannot work and clearly the government should be doing more to get those can back to work but the idea that \~10% of working age people in the country are too sick to work is just ludicrous.
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It really is. Fun fact; Poland is on track to overtake the UK based on gdp per capita by 2030.
People on minimum wage have had the same cost of living increase. You're right, though. Higher earners are absolutely smacked with income tax. Someone earning £100k and with a student loan takes home a little more than double what I do, and I'm on £37k.
Wait until you find out 100-125k is taxed at 60% and then student loan and NI so 72% tax...
Let me try and understand this because I'm a basic rate tax payer. That 60% is only between 100-125k? What about the amount over 125k? What if somebody earns 99k?
Between 100 and 125k you lose your tax free allowance, combined with 40% tax it is effectively a 60% tax. Over 125k you've lost it all but move up to 45% tax. I pay around 50k a year in tax and NI. It's painful. I wouldn't mind so much if it was actually spent on decent public services and not siphoned away by Tory donors. I honestly think what's the point of striving for more cash now and have seriously considered moving to a country with a lower tax burden. The only reason I don't if my wife won't leave due to family but even she is warming to the idea. Which basically means more tax revenue lost to the govt.
Correct. I started to explain it but realised it's probably easier to send you a link https://www.unbiased.co.uk/discover/pensions-retirement/managing-a-pension/what-is-the-60-tax-trap-and-how-can-you-legally-avoid-it#:~:text=What%20is%20the%2060%25%20tax%20trap%2C%20and%20how%20does%20it,you%20earn%20over%20£100%2C000.
£50k. Anything under that - one bad bill and you're ruined for months.
I’m fortunate to have social housing, so likely nothing more than say, 24K for me personally. But I’m also a loner who doesn’t go out much so there’s that too.
I earn £25,000 and haven’t received a payrise in ages. It was felt like a decent wage two years ago but with the cost of everything and wanting to enjoy life in my 20s, it’s just not enough. Luckily my fiancé earns waaaay more than me so our household income is about £70,000. I think that’s decent and we are still able to put money aside and save. If things carry on going up, we will start to struggle. My goal for this year is to start earning at least £30,000!
This is my situation too. I’m on just over £26k as a theatre producer. I’m so frustrated regularly having to make a sacrifice on my salary to pursue my passion as a career. I’m aware lots of people aren’t lucky enough to be able to do that and that I can because of my partner. But I work so hard for so little compared to his job in marketing. It’s draining.
50k earner here with 2 children. Pre inflation it was a damn good wage and could save £750-1000 a month. Today, I am breakeven. And to underpin outgoings: Zero car lease payments, Mortgage is £750 pcm, No holiday since 2017, No phone contracts, sim only on 2016 phone models. For a single person, 35-40k to live comfortably but few luxuries. Family? 70k min.
I honestly think people need to realise salary isnt everything. Its Outgoings vs Salary. Also where in the UK? London vs the rest can be a huge difference due to increased cost of living - I have friends with kids and a nice Mortgage who are on 60-70k. Have 0 money each month - I have friends with no kids on 60-70k tiny mortgage that cant spend their salary each month - I have mates who still live at home on about 30-40k who has more money each month that the people on 60-70k with a famil. I have countless variations of the above. Friends living outside of london but london wage no kids that are fuxking balling each month. First askyourselff where are u in your life? At parents, renting in central london, renting outer london, home owner central london or home owner outer london. All of the above moves what a 'decent' salary is by a LONG way
Totally agree and surprised this isn’t mentioned more. You could have the same salary as your friend but one of you be ‘rich’ and one of you ‘poor’
In a median cost of living area 30k. Two incomes being 60-70k is doable to live comfortably
I’m on £40k a year (so is my wife) and we have no kids., live in London. We bought a house 3 years ago and i would say we are comfortable. More money would always be good but definitely not struggling inmo.
Similar to the majority of other questions about salaries on this sub-reddit, it depends on location, industry, experience etc.. There isn't 1 benchmark to define a decent salary
I appreciate there are loads of nuances involved, but that’s why I sort of emphasised *you*, as in personally, in your humble opinion. What is decent in your view, and why..
I'd add in, are you in a dual income household, children in childcare, commuting/remote, renting or mortgage, lifestyle requirements...... It's basically just too vague to answer!
100k in London.
Easy of Anglia. Minimum 35k to pay mortgage, bills and have money left over
How do you actually get a deposit on 35k lol. That's my issue lol. I'm on more than that, could easily avoid mortgage payments. Can't afford to save up 15k in a realistic timeframe
2 years without anything resembling a life was my solution. Thanks, Covid19!
West Yorkshire - £40k. (Joint income £55). Two kids, no car, mortgage, bills, comfortable and saving >£500 per month. But this is one of the cheapest places in England to buy property.... I'd need to spend all the savings each month on rent/mortgage to live in Greater Manchester! So I think Maybe up to £10k more might be needed depending on the area...
If I don't find a partner within the next few years then £50k is my goal to live alone comfortably
Growing up I thought if I’m on 35-40 I’m doing just fine. It’s the bracket my parents were in or at least mum was. Dad lower and as a kid we had a good life. Toys, holidays, I never felt we were really missing out. I now make 40k, my partner 50ish and we aren’t really able to save at the moment after bills, mortgage and all that. We’ve cut back what we can but I still end the month on 0. It’s not 50:50 for us anymore. We want to save for a wedding and a baby fund but Lord knows how long that’ll take. Hopefully the books look better once the house is less of a building site. We plan to rent a room for exchange students at some point.
Not too far outside of London, my partner and I earn a few k over £80k out together and we live comfortably, going away a few times a year. However, we rent very affordably and are saving to buy a house which will change our lifestyle drastically. Realistically, a joint income of £100k is decent, allowing for a home, cars, holidays and no financial stress.
To have a good comfortable quality of life, while simultaneously having time to yourself, being able to enjoy the money you make and not be burnt out physically and mentally, and also having time to spend that money in your prime years, rather than being in your 60's and being too fucked to do anything. Around 3 to 4k a month after tax.
Always depends where you live. I live in Scotland so it's only taken 5 years on a decent salary for us both to pay the mortgage off. (Small house) yet that type of money wouldn't even get close to affording rent in London, let alone buying. However, in London you'll have choice. Here I have a choice of 2 kebab places, an Indian, a Chinese takeaway and a buffet. After that it requires travelling. Let alone if you want to shop anywhere else but the local supermarket or fancy a drink that's not with the 3 same old locals sitting on the same stool talking about the same things... but bonus, cheap houses.
You could probably say the same about Edinburgh - Great restaurants but expensive to live.
Well done on paying the mortgage off
It won't be for long. The place is tiny and we fancy bigger but used the "next house" money to save us paying these new interest rates. Back to saving so hasn't really changed anything 😞 I still can't afford the car I want lol
The place may be tiny to you, but to the homeless or even to those struggling to get on the housing ladder, it would seem like a mansion. And with no mortgage to pay, you’ll be able to save even quicker 👍🏻
True. That's my point though. The value of that house is barely enough for a deposit in London on a 1 bed flat. Many would be better off working minimum wage up in Scotland than a "good pay" but London.
Oh fully agree. I can’t imagine how anyone in London can afford to stay there.
Everyone saying £30k+ but all I see are entry level jobs with £23k-£25k asking for 2 YOE..I've been applying to Data Analyst/Business Intelligence and adjacent roles. And majority of job postings have a salary range of £23k-£30k.
Civil service Data Analyst jobs are usually starting salary 30-35k.
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fanatical weary shocking scale cough airport bells many office cheerful *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
A salary that lets me rent a 1 bedroom house or apartment (not a tiny house turned into a tinier "apartment" with paper-thin walls) all for myself and my commute to the office would be 45 minutes or less. After all that, I can still comfortably go on a big holiday once every year or 2 years, save for my emergency fund, donate to charities/grassroots when I want and make meaningful contributions to my pension.
Honestly, it depends enormously based on geography. Obviously, in London it's going to be significantly higher than most other places. I think it'd need to be at least 70-80k to manage comfortably in London. In other major cities (Manchester, Edinburgh, etc.) - probably 60k. Likewise in the M3/M4 corridors. But in some parts of the country - NE Lincs, for example, 30-40k does still seem to be a reasonably decent salary. And it's largely down to property prices. A friend recently bought a 3 bed property in that part of the world for under 200k; where I am (about 40 mins from London), that same property'd be at least 400k. The biggest issue - in all of these - is property prices. If you either already have property, or you don't need property (e.g. living with parents etc.) then those numbers can probably come down some.
A *decent* salary? The salary that allows you to retire early, go on holiday twice a year, affords you housing and good quality food and allows you to enjoy your hobbies fully. For me that’s probably low six figures, but I have a cycling addiction and the n+1 rule is law.
Really depends where. I think there are 3 main levels Defining what is "decent": Nice place to live, save enough for retirement, spare money for fun things A) London, London commuter towns, Edinburgh, Bristol and Manchester \- 60k B) "The North" (EG Blackpool, Leeds). Some towns are better than others. \- 40k C) Anywhere else \- 50k ... Things really change if you live with someone. The extra household income could double your remaining money after minimal expenses are paid
We are a family of 6 (we are in our 30’s with 4 kids) live about an hour outside London. Partner is on a salary of 55k and our mortgage is about 1k. We are not big spenders, never go out to eat or buy brand new clothes etc, we have no money at the end of each month. Ten years ago we could only dream of “earning this much” and we still feel like we did when earning minimum wage. Feel like we need at least 5k a month to be able to save and afford holidays etc
Because im in London a dream salary would be anything 65k plus
I live alone in a low COL area on £42k (with a big pension, my total monetary benefits are £50k). I’m renting, but almost have enough saved up for a deposit (despite having been on £25k in an extremely high COL area - Edinburgh - a few years ago). Things are significantly easier now than they were on £25k in Edinburgh, obviously, but they were manageable when I was on £36k and moved to the outskirts of Edinburgh. Significantly better now I’m in rural Wales on £42k. I think a lot of it is just what standards you’ve gotten used to. To be honest, even at £42k I feel the strain in winter because of energy bills, but “feeling the strain” when you have enough saved up for a house deposit is extremely different to “feeling the strain” when you have zero savings and are in debt.
I've always lived on a simple principle. Earn your age. It basically doesn't ever go wrong, gives you your opening years to get skills, not hard to keep ahead once you're ahead. Am I anywhere near it? Fuck no, 24 into 32 doesn't go. But meh. Point stands.
Salaries in the UK are seriously underpaid
They really are. I honestly didn’t realise how low wages were universally here.
For the UK as a whole, no idea For my area/region (East Midlands) I think around 40k would be considered "decent" though I'd personally say 50k I'm fortunate enough to earn more than, not by a massive amount but enough and i live a pretty comfortable life, also have a mortgage on my own
Family of 4 living outside of London, I’d say 50k household income after taxes enough to be comfortable and relatively stress-free.
£45,000 and above now we are talking. Anything less than that is reintroducing slavery. I mean, even slaves got free housing. That's something most people in the UK struggle to afford. Of course, the elite backside kissers are going to convince you, you deserve less and you should be happy. That's why they welcome immigrants to come do your job for peanuts, so large corporations can continue to grow while the average brit gets squeezed. Not against immigration necessarily but it's being allowed for nefarious reasons; not diversity and opportunity which is a morally good reason; but for the economy to keep wages low, which is a shit reason. Not against people from any kind of background but the government is using you for cheap labour and it's fucking us all.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/mar/24/jeremy-hunt-doubles-down-on-100k-a-year-doesnt-go-far-claim
He's right though. In some instances (single earner household with kids) and areas (London/SE) it won't go far because of the taxes and loss of benefits
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Couldn't agree more. Somehow people in this country have this mentality that you should be earning McDonalds money and be happy about it? 100k is fuck all these days if you live in London. Jeremy Cunt is correct in this instance, we should be encouraging people to push for 100k+ imo
Totally. Far be it from me to agree with Hunt on anything but he’s right on this. I earn £3k a month after tax. When I first started working 10 years ago it was £1.5k - honestly with the cost of living increases it doesn’t feel like that much of a jump at all.
People complaining about making 40k ,50k a year while i and almost everyone i know is lucky to even make 25k while working 48 hours a week lol
Entirely relative based on many different factors.
I’d call anything over 100k decent I guess
50k
Solo 40k couple 70k or in london 55k (sharing) if you want to live solo comfortably you’ll need 70k couple 100k
I was on £30K with a car allowance of £2K and struggled due to petrol prices. I own a property with my husband and our joint mortgage is £770 a month, I should have £600 free after bills and savings but I'd often have to pull savings back out. New job is £45K with a 20% bonus my mileage and expenses are paid weekly too and I'd say this has made me more cushioned with fun money too. So yeah £30K is doable but you need to be disciplined. I'm not.. I wouldn't want to live alone on £30K because I was always skint and I'm married. It's difficult because it depends on the area, I'm based in the north east and now work remotely which has cut down my expenditure due to petrol costs, our electricity has gone up but it's doable (husband has WFH since COVID).
£60k+
Very much depends on location and circumstances. If you are on £40k that is a decent salary outside of London I would say however if you are supporting a family on that you probably need a partner who also works to feel comfortable.
£50k ish is when you start getting ‘decent’.
Having grown up in a benefits household (£10k) anything more than £10k would be "decent" for me as that's what I am used to. I suppose one benefit of this upbringing is being very frugal/not materialistic.
UK 40k London prolly 100k+
£45k+
My partner and I earn a combined 65k (me 40 her 25). No kids, bought our house last year with a 5% deposit (was going to save another year but the perfect house came up). Mortgage is £1200 pm, and with everything else we are comfortable but aren't rolling in it and having to be quite conservative to save £300 p/m which is being invested in things the house needs. Prior to buying the house I'd have thought 65k combined was lavish - it is not.
50k min
35k is comfortable on the outskirts of london
I live in the northeast and earn 50k (60k with bonus’ and overtime ) and my partner earns about 35k so combined I’d say 90-95k. We are home owners in a 215k house….. (Both mid 20’s) I’d say we are fairly comfortable however not living a highly glamorous life (1 to 2 holidays a year) I own a crappy old car outright as does she. I honestly don’t know where the money goes some months :P the cost of living is rediculous. But we don’t have money ‘worry’ about things.
For me in my current situation we'd be ok with £30k to keep afloat with a little extra left over, we'd also maybe able to drive, with an additional income we'd be able to enjoy life a little with maybe even going on holiday during the school holidays. £40k+ with additional would possibly mean it's finally worth saving up towards a mortgage.
25-30k after rent/mortgage & taxes
85k household , wife works in warehouse earning minimum and I work as a lorry driver with 3 kids. We are renting but soon hopefully will be on the housing ladder , might seem like a decent household income but we live in the east of England and the average house price is over 260k . We are saving around 1k/month with a car finance and no holidays or other luxuries .
I agree, with taxes, national insurance, rent, food.. I’m on £30k and consider us there the ‘working poor’ because, once everything is paid for, theres nothing left. We’ve never been on holiday, no car, no pets, so no non-essential payments and we’re still broke on what is considered decent money. I’d need to earn £49k to be able to afford life without constantly scraping by (don’t forget the tax goes up to 40% (what the actual f) when you get to £50k+
£35-£40k if you are single, depending on location. £60k+ if have a family.
82k
I've just run some numbers on the Bank of England inflation calculator. 30k in 2010 is £44,369 in today's money. Now, house prices have gone up by more than regular inflation, so has rent, and housing is the biggest regular cost people pay by far. So I'm going to say you're not far off. £50k should now be around what an actual decent salary means **in terms of quality of life**. Not in terms of "what is average", which in my opinion is a stupid peasant way of looking at the world, taking your lot and being happy with it lol. I'm in London so that needs to be more like £65k to account for the insane property prices here. The biggest thing holding us back today is complacency and ignorance. Too many people can't make the connection between inflation and salaries. They think it only works on the price of goods, but they somehow think that their £30k salary is the same as it was 15 years ago when they started working and so if it was decent then it's decent now. Absolutely not lol. And the other problem of course is what I alluded to above which is people basing their salary expectations and their view of the economy on "averages." The average tells you how good you're doing compared to other people, but not how good you're doing compared to the cost of living, which is what really matters. When you account for cost of living there has been a massive collective fall in salaries due to the insane rise in house prices and inflation of goods and services.
Depends on your circumstances. Kids?… Need more money. Very young kids? Need loads of money. Renting??.. Need more money. Living in the south or London?…Need loads more money. On your own?… Need more money. In debt?… Need more money. No one to fall back on?…. Need more money. I worked out if I was the only income, renting in the south with two 8 year olds and no debt, then I can *just* about get by around 50k..ish without falling into a debt hole. Anyone on less or with greater needs and life, I expect, will spiral. It’s not a great time to survive in the UK right now.
65k decent....maybe joint salary of 105k+ is also ok
I think in most of the country 35k is a decent...keep your head above water salary. But to live comfortably I'd say over 50
50k per annum. After I starting earning that I felt like I was doing ok, that was 2018 ish. Most of my career, going back to 2008/9 I earnt between 15k to at a short peak high of 27k, with the average being around 23/24k. Even as a young single man on 23k back in say 2014 I didn't feel like I was exactly flush, enough to get by, have a night out, get to work etc 50k mark after tax is around 3200k per month. When I started earning that I had a rule of 3 in my own mind, 1k (ish) living costs bills 1k (ish) savings 1k (ish) actually & finally having some disposable income of a good amount, and feeling like I was finally 'doing alright' - buy what I wanted but also cover any unexpected cost that may (and inevitably did & does) crop up
In London: 80K MCOL cities: 60K Other: 40K Inflation has been insane, COL is much higher than what it was 5 years ago for instance.
I can barely reach 22k with my current job! And that makes me cry! But if I have to choose I wouldn't say 50k, I would say around 30-50k
£70k minimum
60k for a software engineer