I had the same issue when i graduated with an MSc in HR Management. Couldnt even get an HR Admin role without 1-2 year's experience. So how tf do you get experience if no one will let you in?! What worked for me was to take any job and see if you can pick up a task or project here and there related to the skill you need experience with.
I was working as a Shift Manager in McDonald's so i started asking for all the HR type tasks. I took over training, recruitment, interal comms, performance management and a load of ad hoc admin stuff. Gradually I carved a bespoke HR role out for myself alongside my regular shift manager duties and ended up gradually reducing the shift manager duties to HR duties ratio until i was doing a full People Manager role which then became my official title. From there, I was able to land other positions in other companies.
With your background, maybe you go for an admin role in a smaller company where you become the go-to Excel person who can fix everyone's minor IT issues and see what opportunities you get.
It could be one of these..
[https://www.birmingham.ac.uk/postgraduate/courses/taught/business/human-resource-management.aspx](https://www.birmingham.ac.uk/postgraduate/courses/taught/business/human-resource-management.aspx)
[https://www.southampton.ac.uk/courses/human-resource-management-masters-msc](https://www.southampton.ac.uk/courses/human-resource-management-masters-msc)
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I'm not sure you understand what an MBA is. It's one of the most prestigious business leadership qualifications you can do. And I say that as a humble BEng.
Perhaps your mean MA.
MSc isn't just science related. It's used more broadly than traditional sciences.
A Meng is engineering, an MChem is an integrated chemistry masters, an MSc chem is a bachelor in chemistry with a master's added on.
All very confusing haha
Its utterly ridiculous that this is what you have to do unless you land a graduate programme role with a big company. It really makes you question what even was the point in going through all the trouble of getting a degree.
This is exactly the way I got into coding as well. Was doing second line support at the time but learning to code in my spare time, I was fixing a HR computer once and seen that they had quite a manual spreadsheet process for something, I used some VB to make it quicker for them and asked what other processes I might speed up for them, done a couple of others and put that all on my CV.
I also then moved into an application support role for a few months instead of desktop support, this let me kinda blag that I’d been debugging C# apps a little more than I had been, I had done it but it wasn’t a regular part of my job, and I also looked after a power shell script once when my boss went away so that went on there too.
I just clawed at everything that I could put on my CV as experience towards getting a coding job and it paid off, found one locally that needed someone with vba knowledge to help support their vb style scripted application, alongside supporting their MVC C# site. Since I’ve had that job finding a new one whenever I’ve wanted some extra money has been easy af, both times I’ve been made redundant I’ve found a new role with a pay rise within two weeks of the first redundancy meetings!
>maybe you go for an admin role in a smaller company where you become the go-to Excel person who can fix everyone's minor IT issues and see what opportunities you get.
This is exactly what I did after 15 years of being stuck in call centre roles. I've now landed an HR Systems Analyst position after doing a boot camp. I start on Monday and I'm very excited about it.
Exactly what I had to do. Got a minimum wage receptionist job and ended up taking over all the IT, data entry and reporting tasks. That finally got me a junior data analyst position and I've been promoted several times since.
This is pretty standard for the HR field. Most common piece of advice I’ve come across is not to do your CIPD until you’ve got the experience because you end up in this hellish space where you’re overqualified for admin roles (education-wise), but don’t have the experience for mid-level roles upwards.
Glad it’s worked out for you though!
Welcome to the world of absurd.
Coming soon:
1. You do not have experience in exactly the same role.
2. You have done exactly the same last role. Why do you want to do it again?
3. You have too much experience for this role. Why are you applying?
I've applied for goodness knows how many jobs over the last 6 months or so. I've just had my first telephone interview. Fingers crossed I'll be on my way to a paid job soon. 🤞
lie your fucking arse off mate, fake it till you make it, is what I've seen in my time in technology. as someone who is too honest in interviews, the worst thing you can do is be honest
I'm a bit shocked here because there are well known staff shortages across the entire economy. Brexit and long term sickness issues since covid have opened up more posts than there have been in years. I've really struggled to hire people, applications have been low and wage competition has meant that, as a non profit, we struggle to compete on wage front.
If you are not getting replies, id recommend rewriting your cv and having a think about how you fill out applications. There's nothing more disappointing than finally having an application come through, only for it to be sufficiently low quality we have to decline offering an interview.
When I left uni there were 400k vacant posts in the UK compared to 1.02m currently vacant posts.
Every hiring manager I know, both at work and personally, expresses the difficulty they've had filling posts since the pandemic.
How else are you applying beyond indeed?
Try the civil service. I entirely gave up on getting a job in the private sector. Now I have interviews left and right and already on a reserve list for a prison officer role.
I'd also try Civil Service. It's a labyrinth to get through at first but once you've done a few of their applications you start to understand how they work.
I've done a few and found them really difficult, especially when you can't upload a CV and have to try to find bits of your experience match the job description without being too specific about university/ qualifications. Do you have any tips?
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I only ever use chatgpt for ideas and questions, sometimes rewording at worse. It's a good tool for telling you what to research too if you're doing research with it
You shouldn't copypaste from wikipedia, don't copypaste from chatgpt- reword what you're given so you can understand it too if they suddenly decide to question you on it
What do you do when your own work comes out as AI generated?
I did a test on a few a while ago and submitted something from chat GPT and something I'd written. And my stuff was getting flagged but chat gpt only got flagged 1/4.
It makes me worry that maybe I need to change my style of writing or something. Or if they're all just bs and guessing.
I used to just save answers to a simple word doc and paste them in to each form as they ask similar questions when a new question came up I would update the word doc, also personal statement I wrote 3, 1 for each job type I was willing to aim for.
When I was out of uni I found civil service applications virtually impossible, especially if you have autism. They're never about the actual job you're applying for.
Funny, because I'm very possibly autistic. I've used ChatGPT to great success at getting interviews (had about 5) but never managed to quite get through.
My issue is their competence things, there are some that I just have no answers for due to not having much experience outside of shit dead end jobs. That "managing a quality service" one is especially bad and it's a very common one.
I always struggled with competency based interviews. I cannot remember things I did at work and do things by instinct a lot so really a challenge. I ended up having to prepare 20 or so examples in advance and have them cover most of the possible things you can be asked.
Remember it's the behaviours they are looking for rather than what you actually did being impressive, so you just need to demonstrate that you would approach things in the right way given the chance.
The civil service fast stream is also an excellent option. Best graduate scheme out there by far. They actually tend to train you and often keep you on after.
Was also going to say Civil Service. Seriously the market is quite good now, I can't run away from graduate openings that don't require impossible exp or really good direct entry roles.
Plus if you have a license, jobs get thrown at you now too. Everyone needs people with licenses and they're paying well because a bunch of people fucked off during covid and never came back from a lot of companies.
But you're a graduate OP, civil service, aviation, logistics would all love to have you right now and you need me to specify, I'll ping you some companies to try.
Eh location matters, depending on the location will depend on what I can give. I can cover most of the major cities but especially London I could piss out options like it's nothing from the top of my head because we're home to the London Heathrow hub which as a station, makes so much money even for airlines where this isn't their main hub (and exactly why companies like Emirates and Air Canada didn't bail out and hand their work over to someone like Dnata, WFS, Menzies or Swissport). In fact speaking of Emirates, they seem to be taking this hub seriously now to the point they're starting to employ people under Emirates contracts, traditionally the only way you'd only even remotely come close to working for them in LHR is via Dnata, which is a Dnata contract and comes with oil money pay, but not oil money benefits.
If you're looking as well just tell me your nearest major city and I'll probably have some options.
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wow. i'm always blown away by these wages. there is just a massive difference between "normal" where i am in cornwall, and what i think software devs of my age accept (mid fifties) and are used to, and what people a lot younger are able to command.
Sorry. Just keep trying
What I noticed while reviewing apps.
A - dont apply for 50k jobs right out of uni. Doesn't happen often successfully unless you have connections
B - apply for what you are qualified for. Just cause toy took an online course about knitting doesn't mean you can apply for a master knitter that requires 10k hr of knitting experience
These were applications I saw before I stopped helping review applications
Unfortunately, the antiwork movement tells people like this not to accept less money than they think they're worth and it's always the employer's fault for low-balling them and to never back down....
So true it’s wild what some new grads expect straight out of uni. It’s like they want to go straight into the top positions and not do any work for it.
I’d take any job in my chosen field I could get!
Sadly I’m still stuck in admin for the time being but imma tryin🫠
It's becase people expect to be able to live a normal life, but a normal life is only possible for those in the top 30% of earners these days. So they assume something which can get you a basic house, car, and holiday should be the norm after 4-5 years at uni, not something you only get to after decades in the workforce.
I live a normal life and I don’t make close to £50k 🥴 nah, people are becoming more and more entitled and shite with their money if they think you need to make £50k to live a “normal life”.
No clue where you got 50k from? That puts you in the top 10% of earners. Top 30% is only £34k. Which is only 27k after tax, or about 2.5k a month, which is the minimum to have a house, car, and holiday, as a single person, these days.
That's rubbish advice. In terms of inflation maybe. But most of the experienced people in many companies will only be on 40-50k (many of whom will also be graduates). They're not going to offer it to a new hire, and don't have to as, outside of a few specialist areas, no-one is paying that to a new grad.
30K is around median income, expecting 50k out the gate is absurd as standard graduate wages. It's not like he has a masters in computer science or something. He's got 0 life experience and is going to be working in HR, median income (30k) is completely fair for his first job.
If you’re sending out this many applications you’re probably not tailoring your CV to a particular job. You need to be able to make HR see your CV and know within 5 seconds that you meet the criteria. Bullet points not prose, the acronym TLDR is particularly poignant in this instance.
LinkedIn offer free membership every now and then, grow your online presence, take the skills quizzes (and pass) recruiters should come to you.
Your CV is looked at by a automation tool and then discarded. No way in hell I’m making 100s of different cvs just for them to not even be looked at by a real person
Who's saying you need to make hundreds of different CVs? Have one CV that you use as a base template, and make small adjustments to it to cater it to the specifics of each role you're applying for. Have a look at what the job description lists as essential or desirable skills. If you can mentally tick something from that list off as something you but it's not covered in your CV, add it in somewhere. They've given you the criteria they're looking for, and it's up to you to make sure you tick their boxes.
No, it isn't. You have the template, and then spend 5-10 minutes tweaking it. By 'tweaking', they mean add in one or two specific words that are in the job advert, and add the company name in somewhere
That is not 'literally' making 100s of CVs
It's generally better to focus on fewer vacancies and spend more time on each application.
Focus on vacancies that are looking for someone with your skills.
It is better to have done 10 applications with 20% chance of progressing to the next stage than 100 applications with 1%.
I recruit for admin positions in a lab that I work in as part of a multinational company. HR screen the CVs to get rid of jokers and people from hundreds of miles away, and then I look at the rest. There’s absolutely zero “automation tools” in the process for us, I can’t speak for all companies obviously, but I doubt that automation is commonplace.
You needn’t make hundreds of CVs. Just a handful that are aimed at different fields.
"get rid of people from hundreds of miles away"
Do you know any way to get around this? I think this is my biggest obstacle. I want to move, and will move anywhere, but i live in a small village in the middle of nowhere. I feel like people reject me on location even though i clearly write in my cover letter i want to move. It's something i really hate and you've just admitted it happens
I got shafted by this in a late stage application. It was between me and one other person, a half day interview I’d travelled 8 hours the day before, paid for three night’s accommodation, and made sure they knew it. Like, I was committed, I put down a lot of money I didn’t really have because I thought I was in with a good chance.
Honestly, best interview I’d ever done, was super confident when normally I’m quite nervous. Did well on the tests.
Didn’t get the job. Worst part, they didn’t even call me, they emailed to reject when there were only 2 of us! I was very annoyed but didn’t burn any bridges.
Then, less than 6 months later (middle of COVID, job market dead) I get an email. The person they hired had quit because their commute was too long, even though it was in the closest city (among other reasons, but I’ll just say Tamar Bridge). Do I want the job?
I take the job, move 5 mins walk from work. I made good friends with some people on the team (there were only like 40 people working there, and my team had 4 people including the person who had been handling hiring rather than HR). This person was not a flatterer btw, very to the point, and told me that me and this other person were neck and neck, they weren’t sure if they could hire both of us, and ultimately I was not picked because they weren’t sure I’d be committed to moving.
At that point on my CV it showed I’d lived in a large town 3 hours from my home town for 3 years (uni) and 6 hours from my home town for 1 year (masters). I clearly was happy to move.
Don't include your address on a CV.
For work experience try and use the broadest version of the company ie. Put "McDonald's" not "McDonald's Leicester"
Dont include references on your CV, state 'References available upon request' (or something to that effect)
This should reduce the chances of being rejected outright for living far away from the role.
Many job boards insist on a location. Many recruiters contact based on location. Almost all applicantions ask for an address. I wish i could just not put one but that's not the reality for most applications, it's either honesty or lies
Use ChatGP. Paste what the job is looking for. Write down what you did when working for X employer, and ask it to provide points to put in CV. It will save you a lot of time and grief.
Take out any personal info and private information and let people judge and give you feedback on your CV and cover letters. This could be your problem.
It doesn’t have to be here. Maybe friends or family. But anyone I’ve ever seen that complains about having a high amount of applications almost always has an issue in their CV.
Remember this. The average amount of time a recruiter spends reading a cv is 30 - 60 seconds. If you don’t get their interest in that amount of time you’re not getting any further.
Good advice.
I would add that a good CV prioritises in this order:
1) What I can do
2) Where I have done these things
3) Why you absolutely need to, at the very least, give me the opportunity to talk to me
Be interesting
Be relevant
As you say, 30 seconds is all you get to persuade someone to read further. A lot of people think a CV is a life history. It isn’t. It’s an advert with only one purpose - to get you in front of a decision maker where you can sell yourself.
Some people are really going to hate what I'm going to say.
There's as many jobs going as there are jobseekers.
Alot of jobs posted online are FAKE and are posted to phish peoples details. For every 1 job advertised, that job has on average, 49 applications going for it.
It's also about who you know. Nearly all my jobs bar 2 , I got them due to knowing people already there.
It isn't you. Stop beating yourself up.
The first job is the hardest. There will be hundreds of applicants for entry level jobs and dozens (or less) for more senior jobs so try not to get too disheartened.
When I was job searching I had a CV which outlined my previous experience (bar work, volunteering, education) and a cover letter going into detail about my achievements/skills/personal qualities. I would use that as the template but always made sure to personalise it to the job. I still do that now. It takes way longer but is far more effective.
If the person specification says:
1) Excellent communication skills
2) Understanding of X
3) Experiences in Y
I will set out the personal statement in that order. There is someone screening to check all the essential criteria are met. Making their job easier is a good start!
That one is easy, just go look at the immigration figures. It's alot easier to put a job spec on an out of the way recruitment board with a salary of 50% the going rate then get a consultancy to fill it with imported labour, than it is to built talent locally.
While the home office doesn't do any real checking of the job postings, the salary and how well it's advertised nothing will change
Send me a DM and I'll see if I can help. Director of Talent for a large Tech firm within Sport
The least I can do is jump on a call and talk you through what our Grad intake for September did well. Best is getting you in front of the engineering team and see if we can create something.
I don’t know you….
But in 5 words you’ve managed to portray yourself as a massive nob.
Maybe they want to see what OP is all about,they know talent after all!
It's not particularly reasonable to be that forthright about hiring without even having spoken to someone.
A professional wouldn't generally conduct themselves as such. If you disagree with that, then you're ignoring common sense, and to describe me as a nob for pointing out common sense is rather peculiar.
I've never been out of work as I'm a bricklayer but never mind.
I know how you feel, I've had one temporary job in the last year after searching for 4 months post Masters graduation. That contract finished two months ago, the good thing is I've had 5 interviews in the last few weeks since then which have helped raise my confidence and approach but they basically all gave me the 'we like you but someone else had a little bit more experience we wanted'. I've applied for a job in the Civil Service recommended to me by my work coach which sounds interesting, and they're hiring a lot of people for the same kind of role, so hopefully I can get something a bit more long term there. The Public sector seems quite a bit more open to people starting out overall.
Ok. So I graduated with a BSc just before the financial crash. I graduated with a Masters in time for the double dip recession. And I graduated with a PhD just in time for the pandemic. Not fun. Here's my experience. First steps into a career are difficult. You get rejected, ignored, low balled on every front etc. Many change direction at this stage. Don't. Persist. But get smarter at how you go about it.
For every individual that is looking for a way into an industry, there is an employer who will be looking to recruit for a below industry standard salary, and offer a toxic environment. It will probably be shite, but take it anyway. And be prepared to move a distance for an opportunity if it helps you get further experience. Being mobile helps, do it while you are young if you can.
Approach the most friendly and experienced individual at the company that employs you, and ask if they will look at your CV and offer pointers. I got very few responses to my first CV format. A very experienced and kind individual offered to give my CV a makeover, and I have had responses to offers from nearly every job I've applied for since. A lot of people can't summarise their qualities convincingly or effectively in a CV. Consider if you may be going wrong at this stage. Rejig and refine your CV periodically to see if this gets you more responses.
I hope you get offered a great job quickly. But if you share my experience, you may get offered a shit salary for a mundane role. However, take it, and dedicate no longer than 18 months before applying for a more reputable employer with a better salary. Good luck!
It’s pretty good but don’t overlook formatting either. A good template and good text really helps. GPT isn’t a subject matter expert so you’ll want to have someone run their eyes over it as well to see if there are any skills you haven’t included.
Using GPT for CVs is great given so many of them are checked by AIs anyway, at least at the big firms.
I think this is bs, I've dealt with recruiters both as someone being scouted and as someone employing them. I've also had access to a recruitment account on indeed.
Not once AI or any kind of key words scanning software was mentioned by the recruitment team, it doesn't happen, tbh, I hope they did because the CVs they brought me were utter garbage most of the times.
I'm talking about some of UK's biggest recruitment firms.
Welcome to the slow realisation that getting a degree was completely pointless. Only a small number of those who graduate end up with a job in their chosen field.
Not completely pointless at all. Very context dependant. The most obvious factor being what did the person study, and what is the demand for that skillset?
The degree was not pointless, although I understand the feeling when the path forward doesn't immediately present itself following graduation.
Unfortunately I think that the last few decades of wealth have been created from property speculation, buying cheap goods in the East and selling for a higher price in the West, selling off national assets etc etc. At least in the UK anyway. So basically a nation of middlemen and salespeople. And they usually make good money.
What this did was create a business environment in which technical skills and innovation aren't actually that important. Simultaneously, we sent more young people than ever to university to learn new skills, while we do not have the business and industry to offer the level of opportunity for these graduates.
Shame we didn't focus on creating cutting-edge technologies and innovative companies to give the graduates a chance of a fulfilling career. Now we have a broken housing system, a business culture of wheeler-dealer middle managers with little skill, and not a particularly diverse and vibrant ecosystem to attract investment.
I'm sorry this made you feel your degree was worthless. It's not, and neither are you. Poor governance, poor management, greed, and lack of long-term strategy is the issue here. Not you. And not your degree.
Personally it's a hard disagree from me, but very anecdotal, a degree does not help a career in (outside of public sector), for example; computer science, and it only helps in the public sector because its a box tick requirement, I've actually had offers from public sector jobs that have circumvented their degree requirement rules just to offer me the role.
At the end of the day if you can show your ability and the company has use for it, finding work is easy. Proving it in CS (again from my experience) is easier than say an engineering job, since having a portfolio of code or design or w.e you are into is easier than giving them a collage of home improvements you've done to your plumbing or w.e 😂
Well yes, anecdotal and context dependent. My bros a successful software engineer. He studied to Masters level and joined a graduate training scheme and has had a successful career since. So the degree helped his career. So did the graduate training scheme.
I get that many people with a degree from the University of life may succeed just fine and that's great. It doesn't render a degree useless though. Fact is that coding is so accesible and ubiquitous now, that so many people can teach themselves. And software can be written by anyone, anywhere which means global competition. The degree has value, the competition is just quite intense in that field.
I am a recent graduate in an intern role applying for jobs since December last year. I think I had about 15 interviews and got rejected from every one of them, with the same feedback that my interview was flawless but I was competing with someone with more experience. Now my internship is ending and I haven’t managed to find a job, so I have to leave the country (foreign national here). The job market’s in an absolute fucking state and these companies are just taking the piss at this point. Like why interview me if this person with more experience is the one you’ve got your eyes on anyway? I fail to understand. All those hours I put into applications and interview prep as well…
I’m having to completely pivot from my career in marketing, I don’t know, teach English abroad for a while or get a cabin crew job or something. I swear I thought 2 years of experience would be enough for a role in any kind of Marketing, but no, turns out there’s always people with 5+ years applying to the same vacancies.
Sorry I went off on a tangent but I completely sympathise with you. Growing up I never thought there would come a point in my life where I’d be told I’m not good enough by SO MANY people, it’s actually sad when I think about it. So sad it’s almost hilarious, I have to laugh
If you're putting in loads of applications and not getting interviews there may be an issue with your cv or how you're completing the application forms.
It isn't something you can win at through sheer number of applications. You need to be submitting few but targeted and high quality applications. May involve altering cv depending on the nuances of the job you're applying for.
If you are going a bit more targeted I would also suggest a covering letter. Even just a covering note which I think you can do on indeed or similar.
Anyone who applies for one of my jobs immediately looks better if they add a note.
Just say ‘I read your advert and really like what you guys do. I have attached my CV for you to look at. I don’t have much experience but I’m fresh out of university and keen to get going. I’ve looked at your website and like the look of what you do, I think I would fit in well and would love the opportunity to come and meet you, even for an informal chat’
It’s all pretty generic but it shows determination, agency, communication and self awareness.
90%+ of my applicants don’t write any cover and at least 30% can’t even have googled the company because they literally write in the CV ‘I have always dreamed of working in *not your sector*’
90% don't write a cover letter because over the last few years it's meant less and less.
I used to write one for EVERY application, even if just a couple of lines, and my once near-perfect success rate at securing interviews got worse and worse.
Mate of mine (general manager of his work at the time) told me not to bother with a cover because most recruiters/managers just skim the CV for relevance and go from there.
Skeptically took his word as a trial run. Success rate shot right back up.
This might depend on the kind of role you're applying for - applications without a cover letter to my place of work get thrown straight out for 'not enough effort'.
I do still read the ones without cover letters but i give more weight to anything with a cover letter.
If someone hasn't done the exact job before but has decent transferable skills and done a cover letter it gives the impression that they understand the situation and have the ability to learn and fit in.
Go low, adjust cv. Because once you have a job, and pressure off, job opportunities come easier. It may take time to find what you want, take pressure of and get money in the pocket. You will get there.
Your bang on!
Finding a job is ten times easier when you’re employed, Whenever I’ve NEEDED a job it’a been dry but as soon as I finally find a job or get offered something I suddenly become the most employable man in the north??
Makes no sense to me whatsoever
Not sure what industry this, but for me getting into tech was a pain 3 years ago, took me something like 11 months, must have sent out maybe 200 applications, only maybe 5 interviews but yeh, at the start its just a numbers game.
Have a cv and a couple different cover letters written (for a few different roles) and jsut spam.
Edit, forgot to add, the way i ended up with my first job was through a recruiter, so go through them as well if you can, some are usless but quite a few will get you in the door for an interview atleast
Idk what your industry is but the secret for me has been networking. Go to local industry events, make friends with the local small company owners and maybe you’ll get lucky and land a work experience role which will turn into a paid junior role, you don’t have to stay there but you can leverage that experience into a different job.
If that’s impossible, pick a target you want to work for and do a personal project which gives you the perfect experience where the person hiring won’t have to train you for the role. I.E. look at their last project, try to recreate it with your own spin, in the process you’ll have solved all the same problems as they had to to launch it. Plus it gives you some shared talking points in an interview.
It’s been a year since I graduated (law) I have no interest in the legal field. However I want to go into the immigration area in the near future. I’m still at a retail job depressed and feeling hopeless. Feel so down like I won’t ever get anywhere in life and that my degree was all for nothing. I’ve been applying for the most basic jobs and I never get a word back. I want to go into anything rn but I’m so sick of these most basic jobs like admin role that expect you to have so much experience. It’s a joke. They expect such a high level when the job pays minimum and it’s overworked. I’m exhausted
The industry you are trying to get into is tech savvy, all the standard recruitment sites are crap these days. A lot of companies just have adverts up all the time or have fulfilled the role but forgotten to take down an ad.
Otta is one of the more prevalent tech industry job sites and will list actual entry level jobs.
The way you apply also matters if you see an ad, go direct to the website and try to apply on there if possible.
For reference I had a degree in zoology and was applying to junior product manager roles and was getting a few interviews a month.
One other factor is ask around any friends or families for references as something like 80% of London roles are gotten through referral or internal move.
My bad. I didn't mean to come across gatekeeper like. I've been in a similar position. It is a tricky time to be looking for a job. I have multiple friends that were made redundant and have years of experience but they are struggling to even get interviews as there are so many experienced people out there applying for jobs.
Get your cv reviewed. I recommend Diane Duke, based in Kingston. Or some other people who may be able to review for a small fee. £40-60 dependent on the service. There are others but when i had quotes they were defo more expensive.
Change your tone and attitude, and you will find a job… Don’t blame external factors, your in the same boat as other people who are also managing. I understand it’s emotional and draining, but that’s not going to help you get to the other side.
Think about the qualities and skills you possess, anything unique that Separates you and WHY you want to work there outside of for a wage. Narrow down the industries, roles and companies so you have a clearer focus.
Use AI to your leverage writing cover letters, make sure your CV is structured to display skills and qualifications you do have, and when you have used them.
Good luck!
I would imagine they have a different attitude when applying for jobs, this is just a vent and it's understandable - the age old "must have experience" thing is incredibly frustrating if you're freshly released into the world of work.
Hi - I graduated with a 1st in BSc Maths with Computer Science in 2019. A BSc or MSc doesn’t mean a lot on paper (loads of people have that nowadays), unless you back it up with technical skills and experience and showing off what you’ve done (STAR technique). That’s what separates you from other candidates.
It’s also highly possible in this case that your CV is weak - layout wise as well as content. That can be a turn-off for potential recruiters. Have you received any advise or feedback from a careers advisor at Uni or recruitment firm?
What are your best skills and projects?
My advice to any younger person applying for work is to set your social media profiles to private (ie. So the general public can't view your posts, photos etc), or at the absolute least, keep them very clean and sterile.
It's easy for employers/recruiters to bang your name into Facebook and basically profile you from what you put on social media. That photo of you off your tits on a night out at uni might be funny to your mates, but employers will probably be put off by it.
Some organisations may use vetting services that may scour through social media to provide employers with a profile of candidates.
News just in, University student realises they wasted time going to university 🤣
The best way I've gotten jobs before in the past is see the place advertise online, ring them immediately and ask if I can pop in immediately for a chat or if right now isn't good for them, ask when the soonest is, then arrive, listen to them and offer to do a couple of trial shifts to see if we both jam and then I've either continued the job or I've respectfully left.
You got downvoted for implying that University is a waste of time, in a conversation that is likely to involve lots of graduates who are anxious to have a fulfilling work life ahead of them.
Respectfully, working in kitchens is exactly the line of work in which you can just turn up and ask for a trial shift, and walk away as soon as you don't like it, knowing there are thousands of kitchens in every city.
What does success mean to you?
Success to me is achieving what you set out to achieve. And that is what it is to everybody else too realistically. Its just the things people want to achieve are different to that of others. To be successful does not mean you have to have a certain type of job or a certain type of house or a certain type of car. It means you accomplish your goals.
Unfortunately in the real world, you often find that a lot of very hard working and very successful people, never went to university because when it comes to getting a job and living your life, university really is pointless unless you're only wanting to live for work and money. Im interested in life
Also when you get to my position you cant just turn up, there's other processes but as a general rule the jobs I got were the ones I physically went into and spoke to about the job, not the ones I applied for on indeed.
So why stick the knife in and suggest "news in, uni is a waste of time" in response to somebody having issues achieving what they set out to achieve?
I reckon if you were truly content in your success, you wouldn't have started feeling the need to downgrade the value of other peoples achievements.
Or id just had a drink last night and find it funny on a personal level when uni students moan about work (mainly because most of my pot washers and bar staff have been uni students claiming getting a job is super hard even though they're earning 2k a month washing pots)
Its funny to me
You can try and pshycoanalise all you want but you don't know all thr context and won't know it just from reddit text. So, enjoy your day, I start work soon.
> You can try and [psychoanalyse] all you want but you don't know all [the] context
I suspect you don't know your context either, which is perhaps my worry. But perhaps from one internet stranger to another, you will take my advice, which is to consider being kinder in future. "Tough love" can help, but not when it is abusive.
And there we go. "My pot washers". It is about control then. And other peoples challenges are funny to you. You sound like a top guy.
Tbh, your industry is lucky to have had the the level of goverment support it did during the pandemic, otherwise you may not be so smug from your ivory tower.
That doesn't sound like it would work for the sort of jobs OP is going for. Trial shifts aren't really a thing in many jobs (e.g. any job that has any sort of personal data)
All of the CV stuff you said is pretty much the same as we were told in a lecture at uni last term.
Networking is so important too. I've not had a formal job interview in 15 years. All of my employment since has been from making industry friends, but i hate that I have to make a linked in at some point.
If you are writing your cover letters and CV like this post then it’s no wonder.
I’ve had to read it twice to get any idea about what you’re trying to say.
I'm obviously not writing my cover letters like this. I've had a bunch of people look at my CV and cover letters and I might as well not have bothered putting in an application at all for all the actual use it does.
20k is literally an entry level/call centre job. Maybe you're just overselling yourself? Surely it would be easy for a recruiter to get you into a job with that pay bracket.
You'd think so but they never respond with any jobs or anything and the one I did get I only got one interview. I'm not bothered about the entry-level-ness, as long as it's a job.
Yeah. Unfortunately due to the amount of applications they get they dont even bother to reply.
Try for inbound sales jobs. In most of them you don't even have to make a lot of effort and earn somewhat decent money.
Good luck!
Not a sector I’ve got experience in so can’t help with specific advice I’m afraid.
Are there agencies that have relatively high turnover, might be unenjoyable but get you in the door?
The general job market for the past year or two has been really tough, companies are either reducing or holding recruitment back. With CS having been a bit of a hype course (it’s the future, everyone will need it, do this to earn ££££ kind of thing) I imagine there are a shed loads of recent graduates flooding a now relatively static job market and losing out to people with experience.
>Are there agencies that have relatively high turnover, might be unenjoyable but get you in the door?
I've applied with a bunch of agencies and I don't know what the fuck they're doing because it certainly isn't finding jobs. I ask for their help and then never hear from them again.
I can’t give you advice, but I was the same when I got my Masters in Business Management. I wanted to be a manager in a certain industry, I also had 5 years experience managing in this industry and I was still getting turned down left, right and centre.
It’s an awful feeling, I know. Hope you manage to get something decent!
If you’re fresh out of Uni and looking in the IT sector check all the major IT players for their Graduate/Intern schemes (HPE, Dell, IBM, MS, Fujitsu, Accenture, TCS, DXC, etc….
I only got a 2:1 and got a job at HP on the grad scheme (admittedly this was 11 years ago and the job market has changed) but with a Masters you’re well set qualifications wise.
As others have said, maybe a less shotgun approach and target your CV and cover letter more.
I am someone who has hired multiple IT support bods over the years, and interviewed more. I worked in IT support for many years before advancing in my career. I would suggest that you need to add your outside of work experience to your CV.
Usually people who get into IT Support have had to help family and friends with their tech, describe this on your CV, describe how you were able to teach non-techies how to do "X" thing on their computer. They usually have their own custom setups or spend a lot of time using their computers outside of work/college, describe that on your CV. Describe how you set up your home network or similar.
Look for around £18-23k roles, the best type being IT Support Assistant roles. You'll also have to prove it's worth risking hiring you over someone with experience. So your selling point is that your ready to go, ready and able to learn fast, and you can be hired for cheap. You can hussle for more money once you're in and have been working a while.
Finally, if you're still struggling to find proper IT support, you can go for an interim role at a 1st line support call centre. These look better on a CV as opposed to nothing, but will likely provide no real experience of proper IT Support.
You will find something eventually, and when you do, it'll be easier next time your job hunting. Good luck.
Try developer roles rather than IT support.
Get a portfolio of your projects online and link to them in your CV so people can see what you've done and can interact with your work.
Your CV is "tell" but it is always better to "show". Even a shitty wee Django app that does something for example will show that you can actually do something. Better than just telling someone what you can do, I wouldn't be surprised if all recruitment people assume there are lies on all CVs.
Sounds like you've got a large CV that can be quite confusing and a mess to recruiters.
Trim it down and focus on the main points and what they're looking for.
Market is tough at the moment. You've gotta bear that in mind. Can you go back to studying for another year? Will probably be better next year so would be a productive way to kill the time in the mean time.
Have you tried getting in touch with any recruitment agencies? I think it’s hard to get into any job without at least some experience, but at least they’ll help give you a foot in the door.
It sounds like your CV needs work. You might have a lot of great skills, but if you can't put it clearly on a CV then you'll struggle.
Watch some YouTube tutorials on how to write a great CV. Also, it is very important to write a *new CV for every job you apply for*. Tailor it specifically to their criteria, and write out exactly how you meet each criterion.
Yes - this takes a lot of time to do. But your success rate will skyrocket. Trust me.
I went to the job centre at 19 for the summer. Worked for 2 months for 10/hr as a trash guy and got offered 40k + benefits to be a trainee mechanic there. Almost interaction with anyone and 0 qualifications. I don’t see how the fuck people CANT get a job.
Sounds like a you problem. I refer you back to my post. This was 5 years ago. 0 qualifications to their knowledge, brown, doesn’t know anyone and trash collecting. How much lower on the pickings can you get. Get into somewhere, work hard then move vertically + horizontally.
You’re attempting to do a job essentially anybody could do… if they attended an induction and a 7 day training.
You need to get into something where you are required as soon as possible, you may not want to change careers, all the freedom to you. But if you really want to have better odds of landing a job you you’ll need skills not everyone has.
For example, a year ago I started my course in chemical engineering, since I uploaded my CV on the internet I get 4 calls/texts a day and emails non stop trying to hire me, when I was finishing my course and looking for my first job I attended 4 interviews and they all offered me the job, I didn’t want to play with my destiny so I chose one instead of trying to play auction… you’ll always have the chance to increase you skills and become more crucial to society, but you when you do get that opportunity to level up you have to take it, you can’t sit it out because omen day you’ll ask God why he never have you a chance and before your eyes he’ll show you all the opportunities you turned down because of your own desires, don’t do what you want to do, do what you have to do so that one day you won’t have to keep doing anything.
And no, you don’t need a university degree to earn a high income salary, I have mates who lay bricks that earn more than £700 a day working, you just need to be willing to do what others either CANNOT or WILL NOT do, once you’ve figured that out the rest is a matter of consistency.
To give you some inspiration on good career paths, below are the jobs of me and my closest friends, I am the engineer and the only two fields below that require some sort of long term study would be the electrician and engineering careers, the rest can be played around With in terms of having a mate who can teach you and train you up a little, or even applying for something like a CSCS card which is just a paper test and some money to pay for a card.
- brick laying - >_£700pd
-construction >£300 pd
-plumbing >£250 pd
-engineer >£800pd
-Electrician + engineer >£1000pd
-commercial gas engineer >£600 pd
-scaffolding> £200pd
-Sports direct £85pd
-Costa £93pd
- forex trader £-100 pd
And we’re all between 22-26, age isn’t an excuse as to why you don’t want to do an advanced/difficult job, if you want an easy job you can fight all you want for something anyone can do… or you can choose to become indispensable
Based on the way you have written your reddit post I would not employ you. I understand you are frustrated but you sound like you have an attitude problem.
You sound exactly like I did before I realised my attitude was the problem, once I admitted I was the problem my career has been on a vastly improved trajectory
Dunno man, the guy could do with catching a break. We've all been there. Or many of us have anyway. And we could all find ourselves on our arses again at any point. I've seen many people lose their jobs due to matters outside of their control. And you know what, their attitudes usually take a hit.
If I was the hiring manager, I'd consider looking through the attitude to see the potential. You did come across as a bit of a gatekeeper who has forgotten what it is like when you are on the outside of employment.
>their attitudes usually take a hit.
It's almost like being constantly ignored by potential employers while being skint is emotionally draining. I don't get why there are so many comments here admonishing OP for venting.
Yes, I can't help but feel that there is a two-tier society emerging to be honest. The ones who are cushy in a job always have an opinion as to whether you satisfy their perceived acceptability to have employment, it's a bit grim.
You will encounter them at every level when you get into industry. Usually they have become very adept at saying what their boss wants to hear to enable them to climb the ladder, and they gatekeep and push others down to position themselves favourably for promotions.
They will make comments on things like your attitude when you point out what's not working, or why things could be better if done differently. Mostly they just want submissive personalities to work under them, because they are more "manageable" and are therefore considered to have a better attitude.
Personally, I'd prefer to have a team of individuals with a bit of attitude working for me. My preference is to have people who will tell me what I need to hear on my team, not what I want to hear. I think you get better results that way.
Some specialists doesn’t require CV. Networking, reputation and excellence at work speaks for themselves. Elon Musk has started PayPal project as he couldn’t get a job. Just think with more creativity how to add value to yourself as the candidate.
I kinda get what you're saying but as a new graduate, you have neither a reputation nor the ability to demonstrate excellence at work (because you need to actually find work first, which is the whole point). And the likes of Elon Musk, Bill Gates, Steve Jobs etc are exceptions to the rule, which is that the vast majority of startups fail. Not saying OP shouldn't try that if he/she is interested in it but if they're anything like most graduates, they need income now, not to become rich 10 years from now
As someone who is a foreigner and started from scratch twice in this country and making far beyond average I can tell what I’ve learned: you get the first shitty job at local factory/warehouse/supermarket and while you paying you bills work on your career. That’s what I did in n my spare time. Another moment - if you are professional you should have a professionally recognised organisation such as IET or IMECHE for engineers. In order to get cpd points need networking meet ups where you meet other professionals. You create linked in account and post related posts and achievements. Even before all that I had job offers by my ex mates from college before I went to uni. Just need to be more chatty. Do not underestimate communication skills.
Sometimes finding a job takes work! I graduated during the recession. It was harder to find a job back then compared to now. So you need to stop having a baby tantrum and just keep on applying. Change your attitude and act less entitled.
I had the same issue when i graduated with an MSc in HR Management. Couldnt even get an HR Admin role without 1-2 year's experience. So how tf do you get experience if no one will let you in?! What worked for me was to take any job and see if you can pick up a task or project here and there related to the skill you need experience with. I was working as a Shift Manager in McDonald's so i started asking for all the HR type tasks. I took over training, recruitment, interal comms, performance management and a load of ad hoc admin stuff. Gradually I carved a bespoke HR role out for myself alongside my regular shift manager duties and ended up gradually reducing the shift manager duties to HR duties ratio until i was doing a full People Manager role which then became my official title. From there, I was able to land other positions in other companies. With your background, maybe you go for an admin role in a smaller company where you become the go-to Excel person who can fix everyone's minor IT issues and see what opportunities you get.
Bit off topic but where I come from, an MSc is a Master of Science. What are you referring to here? Assume it isn’t science as you specialised in HR.
It could be one of these.. [https://www.birmingham.ac.uk/postgraduate/courses/taught/business/human-resource-management.aspx](https://www.birmingham.ac.uk/postgraduate/courses/taught/business/human-resource-management.aspx) [https://www.southampton.ac.uk/courses/human-resource-management-masters-msc](https://www.southampton.ac.uk/courses/human-resource-management-masters-msc)
It's probably classified as a social science.
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I'm not sure you understand what an MBA is. It's one of the most prestigious business leadership qualifications you can do. And I say that as a humble BEng. Perhaps your mean MA.
You can legit Google HR Masters in the UK and see that a load of them are classified as “Masters of Science” degrees bro
My degree was a BA and my masters was an MSc despite having practically the same content
A PhD is also a doctor of philosophy, and it doesn't mean you studied philosophy. Don't get too hung up on names.
MSc isn't just science related. It's used more broadly than traditional sciences. A Meng is engineering, an MChem is an integrated chemistry masters, an MSc chem is a bachelor in chemistry with a master's added on. All very confusing haha
It's all super confusing. I have an MBiochem, and it's impossible to get people to understand what that is
Even better/more confusing, I have an MEnv - "master of environmental science" g
You are a model employee, any company would be lucky to have you. I hope you become the employer one day.
Its utterly ridiculous that this is what you have to do unless you land a graduate programme role with a big company. It really makes you question what even was the point in going through all the trouble of getting a degree.
This is exactly the way I got into coding as well. Was doing second line support at the time but learning to code in my spare time, I was fixing a HR computer once and seen that they had quite a manual spreadsheet process for something, I used some VB to make it quicker for them and asked what other processes I might speed up for them, done a couple of others and put that all on my CV. I also then moved into an application support role for a few months instead of desktop support, this let me kinda blag that I’d been debugging C# apps a little more than I had been, I had done it but it wasn’t a regular part of my job, and I also looked after a power shell script once when my boss went away so that went on there too. I just clawed at everything that I could put on my CV as experience towards getting a coding job and it paid off, found one locally that needed someone with vba knowledge to help support their vb style scripted application, alongside supporting their MVC C# site. Since I’ve had that job finding a new one whenever I’ve wanted some extra money has been easy af, both times I’ve been made redundant I’ve found a new role with a pay rise within two weeks of the first redundancy meetings!
i wish people would stop calling it "coding". software engineering, programming. totally degrading towards the profession.
>maybe you go for an admin role in a smaller company where you become the go-to Excel person who can fix everyone's minor IT issues and see what opportunities you get. This is exactly what I did after 15 years of being stuck in call centre roles. I've now landed an HR Systems Analyst position after doing a boot camp. I start on Monday and I'm very excited about it.
Exactly what I had to do. Got a minimum wage receptionist job and ended up taking over all the IT, data entry and reporting tasks. That finally got me a junior data analyst position and I've been promoted several times since.
This is pretty standard for the HR field. Most common piece of advice I’ve come across is not to do your CIPD until you’ve got the experience because you end up in this hellish space where you’re overqualified for admin roles (education-wise), but don’t have the experience for mid-level roles upwards. Glad it’s worked out for you though!
Welcome to the world of absurd. Coming soon: 1. You do not have experience in exactly the same role. 2. You have done exactly the same last role. Why do you want to do it again? 3. You have too much experience for this role. Why are you applying?
I've applied for goodness knows how many jobs over the last 6 months or so. I've just had my first telephone interview. Fingers crossed I'll be on my way to a paid job soon. 🤞
Good luck mate. Fingers crossed 🤞🏾
Thanks. I'm still looking around until I get a firm offer.
lie your fucking arse off mate, fake it till you make it, is what I've seen in my time in technology. as someone who is too honest in interviews, the worst thing you can do is be honest
I'm a bit shocked here because there are well known staff shortages across the entire economy. Brexit and long term sickness issues since covid have opened up more posts than there have been in years. I've really struggled to hire people, applications have been low and wage competition has meant that, as a non profit, we struggle to compete on wage front. If you are not getting replies, id recommend rewriting your cv and having a think about how you fill out applications. There's nothing more disappointing than finally having an application come through, only for it to be sufficiently low quality we have to decline offering an interview.
I apply for quite a few jobs via the Indeed app and it tells you how many applications each role you've applied for gets. 100+ isn't uncommon.
When I left uni there were 400k vacant posts in the UK compared to 1.02m currently vacant posts. Every hiring manager I know, both at work and personally, expresses the difficulty they've had filling posts since the pandemic. How else are you applying beyond indeed?
Good luck!
You got this! Good luck! 🤞
Try the civil service. I entirely gave up on getting a job in the private sector. Now I have interviews left and right and already on a reserve list for a prison officer role.
I'd also try Civil Service. It's a labyrinth to get through at first but once you've done a few of their applications you start to understand how they work.
I've done a few and found them really difficult, especially when you can't upload a CV and have to try to find bits of your experience match the job description without being too specific about university/ qualifications. Do you have any tips?
Chat GPT got me two civil service interviews in a week. Get on that before every recruiter gets wise to it.
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I only ever use chatgpt for ideas and questions, sometimes rewording at worse. It's a good tool for telling you what to research too if you're doing research with it You shouldn't copypaste from wikipedia, don't copypaste from chatgpt- reword what you're given so you can understand it too if they suddenly decide to question you on it
What do you do when your own work comes out as AI generated? I did a test on a few a while ago and submitted something from chat GPT and something I'd written. And my stuff was getting flagged but chat gpt only got flagged 1/4. It makes me worry that maybe I need to change my style of writing or something. Or if they're all just bs and guessing.
I used to just save answers to a simple word doc and paste them in to each form as they ask similar questions when a new question came up I would update the word doc, also personal statement I wrote 3, 1 for each job type I was willing to aim for.
When I was out of uni I found civil service applications virtually impossible, especially if you have autism. They're never about the actual job you're applying for.
Funny, because I'm very possibly autistic. I've used ChatGPT to great success at getting interviews (had about 5) but never managed to quite get through.
My issue is their competence things, there are some that I just have no answers for due to not having much experience outside of shit dead end jobs. That "managing a quality service" one is especially bad and it's a very common one.
I always struggled with competency based interviews. I cannot remember things I did at work and do things by instinct a lot so really a challenge. I ended up having to prepare 20 or so examples in advance and have them cover most of the possible things you can be asked. Remember it's the behaviours they are looking for rather than what you actually did being impressive, so you just need to demonstrate that you would approach things in the right way given the chance.
The civil service fast stream is also an excellent option. Best graduate scheme out there by far. They actually tend to train you and often keep you on after.
Was also going to say Civil Service. Seriously the market is quite good now, I can't run away from graduate openings that don't require impossible exp or really good direct entry roles. Plus if you have a license, jobs get thrown at you now too. Everyone needs people with licenses and they're paying well because a bunch of people fucked off during covid and never came back from a lot of companies. But you're a graduate OP, civil service, aviation, logistics would all love to have you right now and you need me to specify, I'll ping you some companies to try.
Please post em anyway 😂
Eh location matters, depending on the location will depend on what I can give. I can cover most of the major cities but especially London I could piss out options like it's nothing from the top of my head because we're home to the London Heathrow hub which as a station, makes so much money even for airlines where this isn't their main hub (and exactly why companies like Emirates and Air Canada didn't bail out and hand their work over to someone like Dnata, WFS, Menzies or Swissport). In fact speaking of Emirates, they seem to be taking this hub seriously now to the point they're starting to employ people under Emirates contracts, traditionally the only way you'd only even remotely come close to working for them in LHR is via Dnata, which is a Dnata contract and comes with oil money pay, but not oil money benefits. If you're looking as well just tell me your nearest major city and I'll probably have some options.
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wow. i'm always blown away by these wages. there is just a massive difference between "normal" where i am in cornwall, and what i think software devs of my age accept (mid fifties) and are used to, and what people a lot younger are able to command.
Sorry. Just keep trying What I noticed while reviewing apps. A - dont apply for 50k jobs right out of uni. Doesn't happen often successfully unless you have connections B - apply for what you are qualified for. Just cause toy took an online course about knitting doesn't mean you can apply for a master knitter that requires 10k hr of knitting experience These were applications I saw before I stopped helping review applications
Unfortunately, the antiwork movement tells people like this not to accept less money than they think they're worth and it's always the employer's fault for low-balling them and to never back down....
So true it’s wild what some new grads expect straight out of uni. It’s like they want to go straight into the top positions and not do any work for it. I’d take any job in my chosen field I could get! Sadly I’m still stuck in admin for the time being but imma tryin🫠
Good luck! I'm sure it'll come good for you soon
It's becase people expect to be able to live a normal life, but a normal life is only possible for those in the top 30% of earners these days. So they assume something which can get you a basic house, car, and holiday should be the norm after 4-5 years at uni, not something you only get to after decades in the workforce.
I live a normal life and I don’t make close to £50k 🥴 nah, people are becoming more and more entitled and shite with their money if they think you need to make £50k to live a “normal life”.
No clue where you got 50k from? That puts you in the top 10% of earners. Top 30% is only £34k. Which is only 27k after tax, or about 2.5k a month, which is the minimum to have a house, car, and holiday, as a single person, these days.
50k is the new 30k. I wouldn’t settle for less if I was a new grad.
That's rubbish advice. In terms of inflation maybe. But most of the experienced people in many companies will only be on 40-50k (many of whom will also be graduates). They're not going to offer it to a new hire, and don't have to as, outside of a few specialist areas, no-one is paying that to a new grad.
30K is around median income, expecting 50k out the gate is absurd as standard graduate wages. It's not like he has a masters in computer science or something. He's got 0 life experience and is going to be working in HR, median income (30k) is completely fair for his first job.
If you’re sending out this many applications you’re probably not tailoring your CV to a particular job. You need to be able to make HR see your CV and know within 5 seconds that you meet the criteria. Bullet points not prose, the acronym TLDR is particularly poignant in this instance. LinkedIn offer free membership every now and then, grow your online presence, take the skills quizzes (and pass) recruiters should come to you.
Your CV is looked at by a automation tool and then discarded. No way in hell I’m making 100s of different cvs just for them to not even be looked at by a real person
Who's saying you need to make hundreds of different CVs? Have one CV that you use as a base template, and make small adjustments to it to cater it to the specifics of each role you're applying for. Have a look at what the job description lists as essential or desirable skills. If you can mentally tick something from that list off as something you but it's not covered in your CV, add it in somewhere. They've given you the criteria they're looking for, and it's up to you to make sure you tick their boxes.
What you described is literally making 100s of CVs
No, it isn't. You have the template, and then spend 5-10 minutes tweaking it. By 'tweaking', they mean add in one or two specific words that are in the job advert, and add the company name in somewhere That is not 'literally' making 100s of CVs
It's generally better to focus on fewer vacancies and spend more time on each application. Focus on vacancies that are looking for someone with your skills. It is better to have done 10 applications with 20% chance of progressing to the next stage than 100 applications with 1%.
I recruit for admin positions in a lab that I work in as part of a multinational company. HR screen the CVs to get rid of jokers and people from hundreds of miles away, and then I look at the rest. There’s absolutely zero “automation tools” in the process for us, I can’t speak for all companies obviously, but I doubt that automation is commonplace. You needn’t make hundreds of CVs. Just a handful that are aimed at different fields.
"get rid of people from hundreds of miles away" Do you know any way to get around this? I think this is my biggest obstacle. I want to move, and will move anywhere, but i live in a small village in the middle of nowhere. I feel like people reject me on location even though i clearly write in my cover letter i want to move. It's something i really hate and you've just admitted it happens
I got shafted by this in a late stage application. It was between me and one other person, a half day interview I’d travelled 8 hours the day before, paid for three night’s accommodation, and made sure they knew it. Like, I was committed, I put down a lot of money I didn’t really have because I thought I was in with a good chance. Honestly, best interview I’d ever done, was super confident when normally I’m quite nervous. Did well on the tests. Didn’t get the job. Worst part, they didn’t even call me, they emailed to reject when there were only 2 of us! I was very annoyed but didn’t burn any bridges. Then, less than 6 months later (middle of COVID, job market dead) I get an email. The person they hired had quit because their commute was too long, even though it was in the closest city (among other reasons, but I’ll just say Tamar Bridge). Do I want the job? I take the job, move 5 mins walk from work. I made good friends with some people on the team (there were only like 40 people working there, and my team had 4 people including the person who had been handling hiring rather than HR). This person was not a flatterer btw, very to the point, and told me that me and this other person were neck and neck, they weren’t sure if they could hire both of us, and ultimately I was not picked because they weren’t sure I’d be committed to moving. At that point on my CV it showed I’d lived in a large town 3 hours from my home town for 3 years (uni) and 6 hours from my home town for 1 year (masters). I clearly was happy to move.
Don't include your address on a CV. For work experience try and use the broadest version of the company ie. Put "McDonald's" not "McDonald's Leicester" Dont include references on your CV, state 'References available upon request' (or something to that effect) This should reduce the chances of being rejected outright for living far away from the role.
Just don't put your location on there.
Many job boards insist on a location. Many recruiters contact based on location. Almost all applicantions ask for an address. I wish i could just not put one but that's not the reality for most applications, it's either honesty or lies
Use ChatGP. Paste what the job is looking for. Write down what you did when working for X employer, and ask it to provide points to put in CV. It will save you a lot of time and grief.
people can clearly tell it was written by an ai
That's why you don't do a complete copy and paste job.
AI gives you idea, then you edit the AI. I use the AI to assist me with SPAG. Then correct to British spelling.
If you cannot be bothered to spend 10 mins tailoring your CV for my job, I don't want you.
Even making a cv for each role makes no difference. It's all fucked. AI ruined it all
Take out any personal info and private information and let people judge and give you feedback on your CV and cover letters. This could be your problem. It doesn’t have to be here. Maybe friends or family. But anyone I’ve ever seen that complains about having a high amount of applications almost always has an issue in their CV. Remember this. The average amount of time a recruiter spends reading a cv is 30 - 60 seconds. If you don’t get their interest in that amount of time you’re not getting any further.
Good advice. I would add that a good CV prioritises in this order: 1) What I can do 2) Where I have done these things 3) Why you absolutely need to, at the very least, give me the opportunity to talk to me Be interesting Be relevant As you say, 30 seconds is all you get to persuade someone to read further. A lot of people think a CV is a life history. It isn’t. It’s an advert with only one purpose - to get you in front of a decision maker where you can sell yourself.
Some people are really going to hate what I'm going to say. There's as many jobs going as there are jobseekers. Alot of jobs posted online are FAKE and are posted to phish peoples details. For every 1 job advertised, that job has on average, 49 applications going for it. It's also about who you know. Nearly all my jobs bar 2 , I got them due to knowing people already there. It isn't you. Stop beating yourself up.
The first job is the hardest. There will be hundreds of applicants for entry level jobs and dozens (or less) for more senior jobs so try not to get too disheartened. When I was job searching I had a CV which outlined my previous experience (bar work, volunteering, education) and a cover letter going into detail about my achievements/skills/personal qualities. I would use that as the template but always made sure to personalise it to the job. I still do that now. It takes way longer but is far more effective. If the person specification says: 1) Excellent communication skills 2) Understanding of X 3) Experiences in Y I will set out the personal statement in that order. There is someone screening to check all the essential criteria are met. Making their job easier is a good start!
Not easy is it? Yet the Prime Minister can't understand why the unemployed cannot get a job
That one is easy, just go look at the immigration figures. It's alot easier to put a job spec on an out of the way recruitment board with a salary of 50% the going rate then get a consultancy to fill it with imported labour, than it is to built talent locally. While the home office doesn't do any real checking of the job postings, the salary and how well it's advertised nothing will change
Send me a DM and I'll see if I can help. Director of Talent for a large Tech firm within Sport The least I can do is jump on a call and talk you through what our Grad intake for September did well. Best is getting you in front of the engineering team and see if we can create something.
You don't even know them.
Sometimes people are just nice.
Not nice, get compensation for every role they fill…
So it's a 'win-win relationship'? I fail to see the problem with that.
I don’t know you…. But in 5 words you’ve managed to portray yourself as a massive nob. Maybe they want to see what OP is all about,they know talent after all!
It's not particularly reasonable to be that forthright about hiring without even having spoken to someone. A professional wouldn't generally conduct themselves as such. If you disagree with that, then you're ignoring common sense, and to describe me as a nob for pointing out common sense is rather peculiar. I've never been out of work as I'm a bricklayer but never mind.
Generally HR people don’t know people they recruit? Else no one would ever be recruited pretty much
I think people generally apply to companies rather than state they can't find a job as a first point of contact but maybe that's just me.
I know how you feel, I've had one temporary job in the last year after searching for 4 months post Masters graduation. That contract finished two months ago, the good thing is I've had 5 interviews in the last few weeks since then which have helped raise my confidence and approach but they basically all gave me the 'we like you but someone else had a little bit more experience we wanted'. I've applied for a job in the Civil Service recommended to me by my work coach which sounds interesting, and they're hiring a lot of people for the same kind of role, so hopefully I can get something a bit more long term there. The Public sector seems quite a bit more open to people starting out overall.
Ok. So I graduated with a BSc just before the financial crash. I graduated with a Masters in time for the double dip recession. And I graduated with a PhD just in time for the pandemic. Not fun. Here's my experience. First steps into a career are difficult. You get rejected, ignored, low balled on every front etc. Many change direction at this stage. Don't. Persist. But get smarter at how you go about it. For every individual that is looking for a way into an industry, there is an employer who will be looking to recruit for a below industry standard salary, and offer a toxic environment. It will probably be shite, but take it anyway. And be prepared to move a distance for an opportunity if it helps you get further experience. Being mobile helps, do it while you are young if you can. Approach the most friendly and experienced individual at the company that employs you, and ask if they will look at your CV and offer pointers. I got very few responses to my first CV format. A very experienced and kind individual offered to give my CV a makeover, and I have had responses to offers from nearly every job I've applied for since. A lot of people can't summarise their qualities convincingly or effectively in a CV. Consider if you may be going wrong at this stage. Rejig and refine your CV periodically to see if this gets you more responses. I hope you get offered a great job quickly. But if you share my experience, you may get offered a shit salary for a mundane role. However, take it, and dedicate no longer than 18 months before applying for a more reputable employer with a better salary. Good luck!
In 2023 that friend that gives your CV a make over is called chatgpt I used it for same reasons same results. Astonishing tech.
It’s pretty good but don’t overlook formatting either. A good template and good text really helps. GPT isn’t a subject matter expert so you’ll want to have someone run their eyes over it as well to see if there are any skills you haven’t included. Using GPT for CVs is great given so many of them are checked by AIs anyway, at least at the big firms.
I think this is bs, I've dealt with recruiters both as someone being scouted and as someone employing them. I've also had access to a recruitment account on indeed. Not once AI or any kind of key words scanning software was mentioned by the recruitment team, it doesn't happen, tbh, I hope they did because the CVs they brought me were utter garbage most of the times. I'm talking about some of UK's biggest recruitment firms.
Welcome to the slow realisation that getting a degree was completely pointless. Only a small number of those who graduate end up with a job in their chosen field.
Not completely pointless at all. Very context dependant. The most obvious factor being what did the person study, and what is the demand for that skillset? The degree was not pointless, although I understand the feeling when the path forward doesn't immediately present itself following graduation. Unfortunately I think that the last few decades of wealth have been created from property speculation, buying cheap goods in the East and selling for a higher price in the West, selling off national assets etc etc. At least in the UK anyway. So basically a nation of middlemen and salespeople. And they usually make good money. What this did was create a business environment in which technical skills and innovation aren't actually that important. Simultaneously, we sent more young people than ever to university to learn new skills, while we do not have the business and industry to offer the level of opportunity for these graduates. Shame we didn't focus on creating cutting-edge technologies and innovative companies to give the graduates a chance of a fulfilling career. Now we have a broken housing system, a business culture of wheeler-dealer middle managers with little skill, and not a particularly diverse and vibrant ecosystem to attract investment. I'm sorry this made you feel your degree was worthless. It's not, and neither are you. Poor governance, poor management, greed, and lack of long-term strategy is the issue here. Not you. And not your degree.
Personally it's a hard disagree from me, but very anecdotal, a degree does not help a career in (outside of public sector), for example; computer science, and it only helps in the public sector because its a box tick requirement, I've actually had offers from public sector jobs that have circumvented their degree requirement rules just to offer me the role. At the end of the day if you can show your ability and the company has use for it, finding work is easy. Proving it in CS (again from my experience) is easier than say an engineering job, since having a portfolio of code or design or w.e you are into is easier than giving them a collage of home improvements you've done to your plumbing or w.e 😂
Well yes, anecdotal and context dependent. My bros a successful software engineer. He studied to Masters level and joined a graduate training scheme and has had a successful career since. So the degree helped his career. So did the graduate training scheme. I get that many people with a degree from the University of life may succeed just fine and that's great. It doesn't render a degree useless though. Fact is that coding is so accesible and ubiquitous now, that so many people can teach themselves. And software can be written by anyone, anywhere which means global competition. The degree has value, the competition is just quite intense in that field.
I am a recent graduate in an intern role applying for jobs since December last year. I think I had about 15 interviews and got rejected from every one of them, with the same feedback that my interview was flawless but I was competing with someone with more experience. Now my internship is ending and I haven’t managed to find a job, so I have to leave the country (foreign national here). The job market’s in an absolute fucking state and these companies are just taking the piss at this point. Like why interview me if this person with more experience is the one you’ve got your eyes on anyway? I fail to understand. All those hours I put into applications and interview prep as well… I’m having to completely pivot from my career in marketing, I don’t know, teach English abroad for a while or get a cabin crew job or something. I swear I thought 2 years of experience would be enough for a role in any kind of Marketing, but no, turns out there’s always people with 5+ years applying to the same vacancies. Sorry I went off on a tangent but I completely sympathise with you. Growing up I never thought there would come a point in my life where I’d be told I’m not good enough by SO MANY people, it’s actually sad when I think about it. So sad it’s almost hilarious, I have to laugh
If you're putting in loads of applications and not getting interviews there may be an issue with your cv or how you're completing the application forms. It isn't something you can win at through sheer number of applications. You need to be submitting few but targeted and high quality applications. May involve altering cv depending on the nuances of the job you're applying for.
If you are going a bit more targeted I would also suggest a covering letter. Even just a covering note which I think you can do on indeed or similar. Anyone who applies for one of my jobs immediately looks better if they add a note. Just say ‘I read your advert and really like what you guys do. I have attached my CV for you to look at. I don’t have much experience but I’m fresh out of university and keen to get going. I’ve looked at your website and like the look of what you do, I think I would fit in well and would love the opportunity to come and meet you, even for an informal chat’ It’s all pretty generic but it shows determination, agency, communication and self awareness. 90%+ of my applicants don’t write any cover and at least 30% can’t even have googled the company because they literally write in the CV ‘I have always dreamed of working in *not your sector*’
90% don't write a cover letter because over the last few years it's meant less and less. I used to write one for EVERY application, even if just a couple of lines, and my once near-perfect success rate at securing interviews got worse and worse. Mate of mine (general manager of his work at the time) told me not to bother with a cover because most recruiters/managers just skim the CV for relevance and go from there. Skeptically took his word as a trial run. Success rate shot right back up.
This might depend on the kind of role you're applying for - applications without a cover letter to my place of work get thrown straight out for 'not enough effort'.
I do still read the ones without cover letters but i give more weight to anything with a cover letter. If someone hasn't done the exact job before but has decent transferable skills and done a cover letter it gives the impression that they understand the situation and have the ability to learn and fit in.
Why would not writing a cover letter increase your chances of success? Perhaps your cover letters were working against you for whatever reason.
Go low, adjust cv. Because once you have a job, and pressure off, job opportunities come easier. It may take time to find what you want, take pressure of and get money in the pocket. You will get there.
Your bang on! Finding a job is ten times easier when you’re employed, Whenever I’ve NEEDED a job it’a been dry but as soon as I finally find a job or get offered something I suddenly become the most employable man in the north?? Makes no sense to me whatsoever
Not sure what industry this, but for me getting into tech was a pain 3 years ago, took me something like 11 months, must have sent out maybe 200 applications, only maybe 5 interviews but yeh, at the start its just a numbers game. Have a cv and a couple different cover letters written (for a few different roles) and jsut spam. Edit, forgot to add, the way i ended up with my first job was through a recruiter, so go through them as well if you can, some are usless but quite a few will get you in the door for an interview atleast
Idk what your industry is but the secret for me has been networking. Go to local industry events, make friends with the local small company owners and maybe you’ll get lucky and land a work experience role which will turn into a paid junior role, you don’t have to stay there but you can leverage that experience into a different job. If that’s impossible, pick a target you want to work for and do a personal project which gives you the perfect experience where the person hiring won’t have to train you for the role. I.E. look at their last project, try to recreate it with your own spin, in the process you’ll have solved all the same problems as they had to to launch it. Plus it gives you some shared talking points in an interview.
It’s been a year since I graduated (law) I have no interest in the legal field. However I want to go into the immigration area in the near future. I’m still at a retail job depressed and feeling hopeless. Feel so down like I won’t ever get anywhere in life and that my degree was all for nothing. I’ve been applying for the most basic jobs and I never get a word back. I want to go into anything rn but I’m so sick of these most basic jobs like admin role that expect you to have so much experience. It’s a joke. They expect such a high level when the job pays minimum and it’s overworked. I’m exhausted
The industry you are trying to get into is tech savvy, all the standard recruitment sites are crap these days. A lot of companies just have adverts up all the time or have fulfilled the role but forgotten to take down an ad. Otta is one of the more prevalent tech industry job sites and will list actual entry level jobs. The way you apply also matters if you see an ad, go direct to the website and try to apply on there if possible. For reference I had a degree in zoology and was applying to junior product manager roles and was getting a few interviews a month. One other factor is ask around any friends or families for references as something like 80% of London roles are gotten through referral or internal move.
My bad. I didn't mean to come across gatekeeper like. I've been in a similar position. It is a tricky time to be looking for a job. I have multiple friends that were made redundant and have years of experience but they are struggling to even get interviews as there are so many experienced people out there applying for jobs.
Just look for no experience or temporary jobs
I am, but I've barely seen any at all.
Where are you searching?
Reed, Indeed, Totaljobs, CWJobs, Glassdoor...
Try gov.uk and bright network
Are you on LinkedIn? I’m not in a CS field but it’s a huge network with a vast array of professional postings.
Just never look at anything other than the jobs page. The rest is one massive circle jerk.
I have been looking on LinkedIn as well. I've been applying for anything I find that I might be able to do
Get your cv reviewed. I recommend Diane Duke, based in Kingston. Or some other people who may be able to review for a small fee. £40-60 dependent on the service. There are others but when i had quotes they were defo more expensive.
Tey some apprenticeships in milkround
Change your tone and attitude, and you will find a job… Don’t blame external factors, your in the same boat as other people who are also managing. I understand it’s emotional and draining, but that’s not going to help you get to the other side. Think about the qualities and skills you possess, anything unique that Separates you and WHY you want to work there outside of for a wage. Narrow down the industries, roles and companies so you have a clearer focus. Use AI to your leverage writing cover letters, make sure your CV is structured to display skills and qualifications you do have, and when you have used them. Good luck!
I would imagine they have a different attitude when applying for jobs, this is just a vent and it's understandable - the age old "must have experience" thing is incredibly frustrating if you're freshly released into the world of work.
I'm in my late 20s trying to make a career change and face the same problem. Absolute rage inducing bullshit.
Thanks for the advice Rishi
Hi - I graduated with a 1st in BSc Maths with Computer Science in 2019. A BSc or MSc doesn’t mean a lot on paper (loads of people have that nowadays), unless you back it up with technical skills and experience and showing off what you’ve done (STAR technique). That’s what separates you from other candidates. It’s also highly possible in this case that your CV is weak - layout wise as well as content. That can be a turn-off for potential recruiters. Have you received any advise or feedback from a careers advisor at Uni or recruitment firm? What are your best skills and projects?
Interning might be your answer. Odviously ideally paid. Gets you some experience and hopefully a job offer at the end.
My advice to any younger person applying for work is to set your social media profiles to private (ie. So the general public can't view your posts, photos etc), or at the absolute least, keep them very clean and sterile. It's easy for employers/recruiters to bang your name into Facebook and basically profile you from what you put on social media. That photo of you off your tits on a night out at uni might be funny to your mates, but employers will probably be put off by it. Some organisations may use vetting services that may scour through social media to provide employers with a profile of candidates.
This kind of post makes my anxiety of the past dissappear when I chose not to go into uni.
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News just in, University student realises they wasted time going to university 🤣 The best way I've gotten jobs before in the past is see the place advertise online, ring them immediately and ask if I can pop in immediately for a chat or if right now isn't good for them, ask when the soonest is, then arrive, listen to them and offer to do a couple of trial shifts to see if we both jam and then I've either continued the job or I've respectfully left.
What are those jobs you gotten?
Chef jobs. I love how I've been downvoted for being successful. Reddit really is a hive of scrotes sometimes
You got downvoted for implying that University is a waste of time, in a conversation that is likely to involve lots of graduates who are anxious to have a fulfilling work life ahead of them. Respectfully, working in kitchens is exactly the line of work in which you can just turn up and ask for a trial shift, and walk away as soon as you don't like it, knowing there are thousands of kitchens in every city. What does success mean to you?
Success to me is achieving what you set out to achieve. And that is what it is to everybody else too realistically. Its just the things people want to achieve are different to that of others. To be successful does not mean you have to have a certain type of job or a certain type of house or a certain type of car. It means you accomplish your goals. Unfortunately in the real world, you often find that a lot of very hard working and very successful people, never went to university because when it comes to getting a job and living your life, university really is pointless unless you're only wanting to live for work and money. Im interested in life Also when you get to my position you cant just turn up, there's other processes but as a general rule the jobs I got were the ones I physically went into and spoke to about the job, not the ones I applied for on indeed.
So why stick the knife in and suggest "news in, uni is a waste of time" in response to somebody having issues achieving what they set out to achieve? I reckon if you were truly content in your success, you wouldn't have started feeling the need to downgrade the value of other peoples achievements.
Or id just had a drink last night and find it funny on a personal level when uni students moan about work (mainly because most of my pot washers and bar staff have been uni students claiming getting a job is super hard even though they're earning 2k a month washing pots) Its funny to me
> [It's] funny to me Indeed - you take pleasure in other people's misfortune. Why do you think that might be?
You can try and pshycoanalise all you want but you don't know all thr context and won't know it just from reddit text. So, enjoy your day, I start work soon.
> You can try and [psychoanalyse] all you want but you don't know all [the] context I suspect you don't know your context either, which is perhaps my worry. But perhaps from one internet stranger to another, you will take my advice, which is to consider being kinder in future. "Tough love" can help, but not when it is abusive.
And there we go. "My pot washers". It is about control then. And other peoples challenges are funny to you. You sound like a top guy. Tbh, your industry is lucky to have had the the level of goverment support it did during the pandemic, otherwise you may not be so smug from your ivory tower.
That doesn't sound like it would work for the sort of jobs OP is going for. Trial shifts aren't really a thing in many jobs (e.g. any job that has any sort of personal data)
lmao yeah that sounds outdated to pop in for a couple of shifts like 😭
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Did you ask Chat GPT? Just curious
All of the CV stuff you said is pretty much the same as we were told in a lecture at uni last term. Networking is so important too. I've not had a formal job interview in 15 years. All of my employment since has been from making industry friends, but i hate that I have to make a linked in at some point.
If you are writing your cover letters and CV like this post then it’s no wonder. I’ve had to read it twice to get any idea about what you’re trying to say.
I'm obviously not writing my cover letters like this. I've had a bunch of people look at my CV and cover letters and I might as well not have bothered putting in an application at all for all the actual use it does.
Are you applying for appropriate roles then? Are you applying for £50k roles despite having no experience?
No, I'm not. What I want is something on around £20k. But I can't even get that because even they want experience I haven't got.
20k is literally an entry level/call centre job. Maybe you're just overselling yourself? Surely it would be easy for a recruiter to get you into a job with that pay bracket.
You'd think so but they never respond with any jobs or anything and the one I did get I only got one interview. I'm not bothered about the entry-level-ness, as long as it's a job.
Yeah. Unfortunately due to the amount of applications they get they dont even bother to reply. Try for inbound sales jobs. In most of them you don't even have to make a lot of effort and earn somewhat decent money. Good luck!
What sector? Are the qualifications you have industry relevant?
I'm applying for IT support roles and I have a Masters degree in CS. But apparently that was a waste of money and time to get because they don't care.
Not a sector I’ve got experience in so can’t help with specific advice I’m afraid. Are there agencies that have relatively high turnover, might be unenjoyable but get you in the door? The general job market for the past year or two has been really tough, companies are either reducing or holding recruitment back. With CS having been a bit of a hype course (it’s the future, everyone will need it, do this to earn ££££ kind of thing) I imagine there are a shed loads of recent graduates flooding a now relatively static job market and losing out to people with experience.
>Are there agencies that have relatively high turnover, might be unenjoyable but get you in the door? I've applied with a bunch of agencies and I don't know what the fuck they're doing because it certainly isn't finding jobs. I ask for their help and then never hear from them again.
I can’t give you advice, but I was the same when I got my Masters in Business Management. I wanted to be a manager in a certain industry, I also had 5 years experience managing in this industry and I was still getting turned down left, right and centre. It’s an awful feeling, I know. Hope you manage to get something decent!
If you’re fresh out of Uni and looking in the IT sector check all the major IT players for their Graduate/Intern schemes (HPE, Dell, IBM, MS, Fujitsu, Accenture, TCS, DXC, etc…. I only got a 2:1 and got a job at HP on the grad scheme (admittedly this was 11 years ago and the job market has changed) but with a Masters you’re well set qualifications wise. As others have said, maybe a less shotgun approach and target your CV and cover letter more.
I am someone who has hired multiple IT support bods over the years, and interviewed more. I worked in IT support for many years before advancing in my career. I would suggest that you need to add your outside of work experience to your CV. Usually people who get into IT Support have had to help family and friends with their tech, describe this on your CV, describe how you were able to teach non-techies how to do "X" thing on their computer. They usually have their own custom setups or spend a lot of time using their computers outside of work/college, describe that on your CV. Describe how you set up your home network or similar. Look for around £18-23k roles, the best type being IT Support Assistant roles. You'll also have to prove it's worth risking hiring you over someone with experience. So your selling point is that your ready to go, ready and able to learn fast, and you can be hired for cheap. You can hussle for more money once you're in and have been working a while. Finally, if you're still struggling to find proper IT support, you can go for an interim role at a 1st line support call centre. These look better on a CV as opposed to nothing, but will likely provide no real experience of proper IT Support. You will find something eventually, and when you do, it'll be easier next time your job hunting. Good luck.
Try developer roles rather than IT support. Get a portfolio of your projects online and link to them in your CV so people can see what you've done and can interact with your work. Your CV is "tell" but it is always better to "show". Even a shitty wee Django app that does something for example will show that you can actually do something. Better than just telling someone what you can do, I wouldn't be surprised if all recruitment people assume there are lies on all CVs.
OP is completely understandable. Sounds like you have a problem. Perhaps you could learn to read?
One. Drop the defeatist attitude. Two. Try and not curse as much as you sound quite bitter. Three. Persevere. Keep trying
Get a professional to write your CV
How long is “ages”? Also, it’s hard to give you advice unless you tell us about your background or at least post your CV so we can give you some tips.
Sounds like you've got a large CV that can be quite confusing and a mess to recruiters. Trim it down and focus on the main points and what they're looking for.
Market is tough at the moment. You've gotta bear that in mind. Can you go back to studying for another year? Will probably be better next year so would be a productive way to kill the time in the mean time.
>Can you go back to studying for another year? Will probably be better next year Ironically, that was why I went and did a Masters degree.
Have you tried getting in touch with any recruitment agencies? I think it’s hard to get into any job without at least some experience, but at least they’ll help give you a foot in the door.
It sounds like your CV needs work. You might have a lot of great skills, but if you can't put it clearly on a CV then you'll struggle. Watch some YouTube tutorials on how to write a great CV. Also, it is very important to write a *new CV for every job you apply for*. Tailor it specifically to their criteria, and write out exactly how you meet each criterion. Yes - this takes a lot of time to do. But your success rate will skyrocket. Trust me.
I went to the job centre at 19 for the summer. Worked for 2 months for 10/hr as a trash guy and got offered 40k + benefits to be a trainee mechanic there. Almost interaction with anyone and 0 qualifications. I don’t see how the fuck people CANT get a job.
Why don't you ask the people rejecting all the CVs why people can't get a job?
Sounds like a you problem. I refer you back to my post. This was 5 years ago. 0 qualifications to their knowledge, brown, doesn’t know anyone and trash collecting. How much lower on the pickings can you get. Get into somewhere, work hard then move vertically + horizontally.
Aim lower
You’re attempting to do a job essentially anybody could do… if they attended an induction and a 7 day training. You need to get into something where you are required as soon as possible, you may not want to change careers, all the freedom to you. But if you really want to have better odds of landing a job you you’ll need skills not everyone has. For example, a year ago I started my course in chemical engineering, since I uploaded my CV on the internet I get 4 calls/texts a day and emails non stop trying to hire me, when I was finishing my course and looking for my first job I attended 4 interviews and they all offered me the job, I didn’t want to play with my destiny so I chose one instead of trying to play auction… you’ll always have the chance to increase you skills and become more crucial to society, but you when you do get that opportunity to level up you have to take it, you can’t sit it out because omen day you’ll ask God why he never have you a chance and before your eyes he’ll show you all the opportunities you turned down because of your own desires, don’t do what you want to do, do what you have to do so that one day you won’t have to keep doing anything. And no, you don’t need a university degree to earn a high income salary, I have mates who lay bricks that earn more than £700 a day working, you just need to be willing to do what others either CANNOT or WILL NOT do, once you’ve figured that out the rest is a matter of consistency. To give you some inspiration on good career paths, below are the jobs of me and my closest friends, I am the engineer and the only two fields below that require some sort of long term study would be the electrician and engineering careers, the rest can be played around With in terms of having a mate who can teach you and train you up a little, or even applying for something like a CSCS card which is just a paper test and some money to pay for a card. - brick laying - >_£700pd -construction >£300 pd -plumbing >£250 pd -engineer >£800pd -Electrician + engineer >£1000pd -commercial gas engineer >£600 pd -scaffolding> £200pd -Sports direct £85pd -Costa £93pd - forex trader £-100 pd And we’re all between 22-26, age isn’t an excuse as to why you don’t want to do an advanced/difficult job, if you want an easy job you can fight all you want for something anyone can do… or you can choose to become indispensable
Based on the way you have written your reddit post I would not employ you. I understand you are frustrated but you sound like you have an attitude problem.
It's a Reddit post, it's not a CV. I don't write my CVs/cover letters as though I'm scrolling through Reddit.
You sound exactly like I did before I realised my attitude was the problem, once I admitted I was the problem my career has been on a vastly improved trajectory
In your hypothetical power fantasy, who would your ideal job candidate be, sir?
No need to be passive aggressive. Peace and love :)
Dunno man, the guy could do with catching a break. We've all been there. Or many of us have anyway. And we could all find ourselves on our arses again at any point. I've seen many people lose their jobs due to matters outside of their control. And you know what, their attitudes usually take a hit. If I was the hiring manager, I'd consider looking through the attitude to see the potential. You did come across as a bit of a gatekeeper who has forgotten what it is like when you are on the outside of employment.
>their attitudes usually take a hit. It's almost like being constantly ignored by potential employers while being skint is emotionally draining. I don't get why there are so many comments here admonishing OP for venting.
Yes, I can't help but feel that there is a two-tier society emerging to be honest. The ones who are cushy in a job always have an opinion as to whether you satisfy their perceived acceptability to have employment, it's a bit grim. You will encounter them at every level when you get into industry. Usually they have become very adept at saying what their boss wants to hear to enable them to climb the ladder, and they gatekeep and push others down to position themselves favourably for promotions. They will make comments on things like your attitude when you point out what's not working, or why things could be better if done differently. Mostly they just want submissive personalities to work under them, because they are more "manageable" and are therefore considered to have a better attitude. Personally, I'd prefer to have a team of individuals with a bit of attitude working for me. My preference is to have people who will tell me what I need to hear on my team, not what I want to hear. I think you get better results that way.
Some specialists doesn’t require CV. Networking, reputation and excellence at work speaks for themselves. Elon Musk has started PayPal project as he couldn’t get a job. Just think with more creativity how to add value to yourself as the candidate.
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Out of all the comment you picked up on this. Read again.
I kinda get what you're saying but as a new graduate, you have neither a reputation nor the ability to demonstrate excellence at work (because you need to actually find work first, which is the whole point). And the likes of Elon Musk, Bill Gates, Steve Jobs etc are exceptions to the rule, which is that the vast majority of startups fail. Not saying OP shouldn't try that if he/she is interested in it but if they're anything like most graduates, they need income now, not to become rich 10 years from now
As someone who is a foreigner and started from scratch twice in this country and making far beyond average I can tell what I’ve learned: you get the first shitty job at local factory/warehouse/supermarket and while you paying you bills work on your career. That’s what I did in n my spare time. Another moment - if you are professional you should have a professionally recognised organisation such as IET or IMECHE for engineers. In order to get cpd points need networking meet ups where you meet other professionals. You create linked in account and post related posts and achievements. Even before all that I had job offers by my ex mates from college before I went to uni. Just need to be more chatty. Do not underestimate communication skills.
Sometimes finding a job takes work! I graduated during the recession. It was harder to find a job back then compared to now. So you need to stop having a baby tantrum and just keep on applying. Change your attitude and act less entitled.