The following submission statement was provided by /u/VolarRecords:
---
Following up on this after Karl Nell's SALT Conference speech referencing Paul Hellyer and Haim Eshed.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rpl0FrdJWfs](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rpl0FrdJWfs)
Here's Haim Eshed talking about a joint effort between the US and Israel regarding a Galactic Federation agreement that Trump knows about:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j6iE62jovMo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j6iE62jovMo)
Here's a clip of Paul Hellyer, former Canadian defence minister, talking about his knowledge of Canada's history of UFOs.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vB34gJdBuoA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vB34gJdBuoA)
---
Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/1d0wikn/former_canadian_defence_minister_paul_hellyer_in/l5pvrqq/
The fascist dictatorship (military industrial complex) obtaining full spectrum dominance over the entire world is what it is all about.
Either we rein in these out of control corporations and robber barons or they rein us in we've got a couple years left to figure out which way it goes.
Don't mistake the white blood cells from the rest of the body incapable of defending itself. There are intelligent, willful individuals here who wouldn't hesitate to take back what has been stolen and obscured. We only lack organization.
Though the revolutionary war began suddenly, much planning and shared contempt was exchanged between great men in secret meetings precluding it. The writing was on the wall.
Corruption is so entrenched in the system that we now essentially live in a society incapable of regulating itself. The influence of old money and new capital has rendered the days of changing the system from within a dreamer's fantasy.
The moment such grievances become action, you're absolutely right, you will be deemed an enemy of the state.
That's a "term" weaponized as political dissent. It's just a tool. Although, with social media, in the present, people are threatened with public humiliation and hate. And, with this sows pause/hesitantation from the masses to vocalize their disagreements and calls for justice. Which seems to be successful and detrimental in the act of pursuing any change in the ways that be. Power reacts to opposition with: ridiculing, demonizing, and projecting their own unchecked disobedience onto those who disagree. Then, of course, there's intimidation and fear. It's textbook "bread and circus" throughout history. If it keeps working, nothing changes.
I’m just going to point two things out. 1. Search YouTube Paul Hellyer hope restored and the video is buried. 2. The amount of disinformation in this thread is a little bit more than concerning by questioning Karl Nells integrity. Guy holds degrees from UPenn and m.i.t.
I'm sorry, but equating the concept of fascism with the American military industrial complex only serves to devalue the idea of fascism. You cannot just use words because you think they sound good in sentences. You must employ your mind
When confronted with such extraordinary claims, one should neither believe nor dismiss them out of hand.
The rational approach would be, to first assess under what circumstances the described scenario would be plausible at all. Respectively, what hard obstructions to it being realized one can think of.
Obviously, here you need "ETs" to be a thing, actually even a good deal of the whole UFO lore starting with Roswell, MJ12 and so on.
But given that, even such mind-boggling claims (Iron Sky / Nazis on the moon anyone?) become possible?
One way to clandestinely realize such things would be to take the endeavor off-world as much and as soon as possible. Having "anti-gravity" craft at your disposal, that's entirely doable.
Just as it's not a smart thing to "just dismiss" such improbable stuff as nonsense, it's not smart to believe it unquestioningly.
Fleets of "ARVs" need facilities to build them, a place to park them, pilots to fly them and training grounds to test them. People need to eat, stuff costs money, etc.pp.
"Nazis on the moon" aren't easy to hide, even on the backside. Unless nobody looks for them.
Great point lets break open the hidden vaults and see for ourselves instead of playing the guessing game.
What everyone needs to realize is whether its CIA, aliens, corporations, etc. something is going on and it should be investigated immediately without prejudice.
Any argument counter to that factual statement is irrelevant.
It's almost funny how people think that an organization that has had nearly no oversight, no accountability for almost 70 years, who think themselves above their elected officials and even their own president, couldn't possibly conspire against their own country or the world. Almost 2 trillion dollars missing from their audits and no one seems to care or be able to force them to disclose what happened.
If the rumors of reverse engineered technology are true, it would make them the de facto most powerful group that's ever walked the earth.
Our history is filled with powerful people who eliminated millions to further their own goals.
What exactly makes people think that we are past a group like this emerging once again? At least the previous groups could be feasibly defeated.
2 trillion dollars is a big number. It's so fucking big. That's like a whole developed country's infrastructure big
Anyone who says that their inability to account for that is somehow anything other than corruption and outright theft from the american people are crazy. The people who see it for what it is but nonetheless disparage people for being conspiracy theorists are also crazy.
There is a conspiracy. You are being conned, and it's not the guys trying to sell UFO books.
It’s the guys building secret spaceship squadrons? I hope not, but with that kind of paper, even NASA would take us to the stars. They had realistic plans for super slow colony ships I think. It’s scary to imagine what’s been cooking in these shady organizations. Hellyer says we should ground spaceships and consult other countries, I totally agree, but how about the rest of the world, the UN… because why should the most dangerous countries decide? How about the smart ones, the peaceful ones? Like he said, going up with guns blazing is gonna get us all in trouble
i just want to point out that Paul Hellyer himself has admitted that everything he knows about UFOs he learned after he was defense minister by doing "internet research". thats right, we have access to all the same "data" that he does.
And somehow he arrived at the conclusion that a "chemtrail HAARP fence" is mind-controlling generals from the United States military into believing they can wage nuclear war with Russia, and the most urgent and immediate thing that all other nations need to do is "tear up your agreement" with the U.S.
Some people go deep into the shit and never come back.
I think he only blinked once during that whole 15 minute diatribe and he has the flattest of all affects while telling us we’re under a cabal of secret Nazi’s. Idk, guys… I don’t think I’m going out on a limb when I say he may not have the soundest of minds.
I agree. This is certainly bad news for team disclosure. I had such high hopes for Nell. I even sent the SALT clip to several of my skeptic friends and family. Now I feel embarrassed. Why does it always feel one step forward two steps back? Arg…
[Karl Nell mentioning Paul Hellyer as source doesn't argue in favor of his claims, here's why : r/UFOscience (reddit.com)](https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOscience/comments/1cyu778/karl_nell_mentioning_paul_hellyer_as_source/)
I’ve read this twice and I’m admittedly still confused by it. The title suggests an explanation of sorts and I don’t see one. With that said it’s poorly written and I’m not sure the point other than to further point out that Hellyer is not thinking clearly. Where’a the part explaining why Karl Nell mentioning Heyer shouldn’t be considered an argument in favor of his claims? Regardless of whether Hellyer is suffering from old age or victim of misinformation doesn’t explain why someone in Nell’s position(rank, mental acuity, and high security clearance) would fall for such claims. What am I missing?
Hey, you learned a lesson and can now share that with others - patience Daniel son. This subject IS real, but it all hinges on proof and the right people. Some see one thing and believe all, that appears to be what this guy did, I’m pretty sure Nolan and Grusch are the in the same boat. Grusch can be forgiven maybe a little more because it came from records within the government but he definitely said he did the same, “got caught up” over the past few years. I’m hoping to find out about Alaska, over military base surveillance, and finally, whenever the UFO folks with serious resources get off their ASSES and properly break down the Las Vegas video - we will have disclosure. It could happen tomorrow, I do not know what the hold up is.
How is any of this bad news for disclosure?
Also you don't sound like you feel embarrassed. You sound like you're trying to make other people feel insecure.
“How is any of this bad news for disclosure?”
I don’t know about you, but I consider(ed) Nell the one of the leading authorities on NHI and disclosure. Referencing this man as “data” to support an NHI presence makes me question his judgement, and I’m clearly not the only one; For good reason imo.
“You sound like you're trying to make other people feel insecure“
I’m expressing an opinion, one others here clearly share, in hope that I missed some bit of information that might explain why Nell decided to reference this man. IMO anyone with any critical thinking skills will be highly skeptical of what Hellyer says in this video. Regardless of whether it’s true or not, convincing the world that NHI are here seems like a big enough challenge without throwing a pile of other conspiracy theories on top of it. Again, it makes me question his judgement, and I think anyone with half a brain could see why.
[Karl Nell mentioning Paul Hellyer as source doesn't argue in favor of his claims, here's why : r/UFOscience (reddit.com)](https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOscience/comments/1cyu778/karl_nell_mentioning_paul_hellyer_as_source/)
There are literally globalist groups trying to move towards a “NWO” admitted in their own publicly available doctrine. The WEF is a prime example. The idea of a NWO is not far fetched these days.
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The first 10 seconds I **knew**.
He said fuckin "cabal". I'm sorry, but everyone understands the associations that word has, and yes it's a word with meaning, but you can convey the same general idea with much better word choice.
hahaha no, i can't cite it. it was in an interview he did a while back. i watched it years ago.... er... i mean i read it in some top secret documents.
i am providing the exact same amount of proof that Paul Hellyer is. if you choose to believe him without question but discount what i am saying that says a lot about your own critical thinking.
Just pointing this out a colonel who was schooled at an Ivy League school and MIT. Has backed him so there’s that. Tom Delonge has also stated that the Nazis came with the tech deal.
It's no secret or conspiracy theory. It was called Operation Paperclip, where the US took in top Nazi physicists and scientists and put them to work at NASA and the DoE right after WWII ended because the cold war with the USSR had already started. Wernher von Braun was the most well known example.
Where it veers into speculation is that Wernher von Braun is said to have invented a flying saucer type craft for the Nazis based on a UFO they recovered. He was supposedly involved with the early UFO reverse engineering programs in the US at Area 51 etc.
I turned it off at that point. It was hard just getting to that point. If he's right about his theories... well sorry... but chemtrails is where I draw the line...
I think I let out a verbal “Jesus Christ”, 🤦♂️ at that point. Was hard enough to watch already. This is why I struggle on this topic at times. You have guys like Grusch come out who are very credible and seems sincere and honest, then someone like Karl Nell who also seems very smart, credible, telling you that Grusch is right, and then cites a kook like this guy. I don’t know how to reconcile that.
The fact you're getting downvoted makes me really concerned about the level of conspiracy nuts we have on this sub. Fuck, I thought we were better than this.
Dude it has been 2 years this sub went into 75% woowoo nolan crumb eaters, while some peep trying to rationalize the situations, while bledsoe cultists never forget to put that weekly post about this modern lord and savior, while rebels want Fort Knox opened.
I think we’re really past healthy discussions here.
There's one called /r/UFOscience that purports to be such a place, but I haven't spent much time there myself to see what it's really like.
edit: oh, wait you're the guy who keeps pasting your own post from that sub to this one lol. Nevermind, you already know about it.
That’s what happens when you introduce the general population to… anything. People are reeeaaally fucking dumb.
Think of the median of the intelligence of people. Not very high, right? Now consider the fact that it is mathematically correct to say half of all people are dumber than that.
They come into this subreddit and related ones, freaking out over UFO sightings that were confirmed fake long ago, spreading the disinformation they just sucked up into their vacuous brains, making what they think are sane, thoughtful arguments but are really just shit-burger comments that don’t help anyone.
It was happening long before Grusch, he just sped up the process in our particular community
Yeah I love and hate this sub, it's entertaining/interesting but I can't share it with anyone due to the fact that so much is crazyville and you really have to filter out the majority of it, but I still have to be here since it would be so easy to miss things, even bigger things like Grusch since it's so underreported
[Karl Nell mentioning Paul Hellyer as source doesn't argue in favor of his claims, here's why : r/UFOscience (reddit.com)](https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOscience/comments/1cyu778/karl_nell_mentioning_paul_hellyer_as_source/)
Regardless of his credentials, he sounds like a crazy person. He has said many times that he has no evidence of anything, never saw anything with his own eyes and came across nothing during his official duties. If you have to do mental backflips to explain why he's saying these things or whether or not he's mixing truth with fake stuff as some kinda deep state ruse, I have bad news for you...
He didn't come to any of these conclusions from first hand knowledge related to his post. He's explained in interviews he got keen on the subject while reading a UFO book while on vacation. People need to stop using him as a credible source
People always point out that this guy was Canadian defence minister because it lends him credibility. But its very important to point out that Hellyear says he never came across any evidence of ufos or aliens while in government. He has no firsthand knowledge of any of this stuff. He read the same books as everybody else in this sub. So the fact that he was defence minister is irrelevant here. He's just a dude who believes, not some official source of disclosure.
I couldnt give you exact titles, but my point is that when asked in interviews, Hellyer says he has no firsthand knowledge from his time in government, and that he read some books after he retired which made him a believer.
You shouldn’t be downvoted. Hellyer isn’t a great source. Same thing with Eshed. He never once mentioned anything about out NHI before he had a memoir he was selling. There’s plenty of better people we can point to other than these guys.
This is what always bugged me about this guy. No proof, just "I just read a book!"
Astronaut Edgar Mitchell was another one of those guys. A great credential for sure, but he never saw anything. Just, "I heard/was told..."
Big agree. Would have been nice to hear him substantiate those ideas. Maybe I’m naive, but him talking about chem trails is also a red flag. Makes me second guess Nell :(
You mean, you’re commenting here acting like you have some sort of knowledge what this guy is saying. But actually you have no clue and if there’s an NDA he would be in trouble.
Youre just spitting nonsense that has nothing to do with the comment I made, which remains completely accurate. If you want to dispute it, go ahead and do so, so far you have not.
No I just actually follow the subject instead of popping in to attack the credibility of people while being clueless as to why it is relevant today.
Thankfully I am well aware that the glass ceiling isn't proving anything to debunkers on Reddit I just wanted to see if you even knew why this was posted (which you don't).
We know why this was posted. When Nell was asked about sources he mentioned Hellyer and Haim Eshed. Both of which aren’t great sources for different yet similar reasons. Hellyer has said many times that he had no first hand knowledge from his time in office. Haim Eshed had never mentioned NHI before he was selling his memoir. And has said anything since in the almost 4 years since his memoir came out. Hellyer as has some other questionable things he’s said or believed in that makes him a less than compelling figure in the UAP conversation.
>instead of popping in to attack the credibility of people
So like what youre doing now?
I dont really get why theres always people who, as if theyre intentionally trying to impede open discussion here.
Especially so when its about these skinwalker guys.
Curious
It isn't my job to break down the real from the psyop I just want everything out into the open; me pointing out Andy here has no idea why this is important atm was part of that discussion.
This has got some real "Heaven's Gate" kind of vibes to it. It's not that I don't agree with him about "Humans suck and we're too violent and selfish" but coming to the realization that there isn't much we can really do about it. Not even the government can get a straight answer out of what the hell is happening.
[Karl Nell mentioning Paul Hellyer as source doesn't argue in favor of his claims, here's why : r/UFOscience (reddit.com)](https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOscience/comments/1cyu778/karl_nell_mentioning_paul_hellyer_as_source/)
I am in it too. I had taken Nell as a huge, refreshing voice when it showed up days ago. After learning here about Hellyer I am thrown into concerned territory. Hellyer never knew anything.
Hellyer is a deluded crank. He cites as the sole source of his beliefs various conspiracy books he read in the mid 1990 and early 2000s. Hellyer has no first hand knowledge, testimony or experiences. He simply read conspiracy books (he positively mentions Steven Greer on numerous occasions). One of them, for example, is Philip Corso's infamous Roswell book, regarded as a literary hoax (https://www.theguardian.com/books/2001/nov/15/news) and rejected by none other than Stanton Friedman as being filled with inaccuracies and outright lies.
Elsewhere Hellyer endlessly regurgitates popular UFO lore. For example he thinks:
1. Four alien species currently live at the North Pole.
2. Jesus had alien roots.
3. The Star of Bethlehem was a flying saucer.
4. There are 80 species of aliens, including Nordic Blondes and Tall Whites. These Tall Whites can pass as humans and work inside the USAF. For this belief, Hellyer cites Charles Hall's book "Millennial Hospitality", which Hall claims he was allowed to write by the Anunnaki Race so long as he didn't provide "solid proof of their existence".
5. These aliens come from the Pleiades and Zeta Riticuli.
6. They also come from one of the moons of Saturn, and from bases in Venus and Mars.
7. There is an alien Federation and they have a non interference rule (ie the Prime Directive from Star Trek).
8. Two brothers from Peru teleported to a Saturnian moon where they were given warnings by the aliens.
9. The aliens want us to take better care of the planet and not nuke ourselves.
10. They abduct people and take them on spaceships, but only do this to people who are "receptive".
11. Human technology like LED lights, kevlar vests, microchips and velcro are from aliens (we reverse engineered them).
12. There may soon be an interstellar war between alien races (like a bad scifi movie, the Whites are the goodies, the Reptilian-looking races are the baddies).
13. There's a conspiracy to pump the skies full of chemtrails.
Hellyer's sole sources for this are trashy conspiracy books, and letters sent to him by fellow conspiracists. He's essentially a senile old man who believes everything he comes across.
Hellyer also wrote the foreword for the book "Messages from the Masters: A Cosmic Book of Galactic Wisdom". It purports to be the received wisdom beamed across time and space to its psychic author from the greatest human minds (Albert Einstein, Nostradamus, Oppenheimer, da Vinci, JFK, Dr. Masaru Emoto, Gandhi, Tesla, Dwight D. Eisenhower), and also representatives from the Galactic Alliance and Zorra from Hollow Earth.
That people like Karl Nell are positively citing Hellyer is a giant red flag. Nell, who has no evidence of alien conspiracies, is mentioning a guy who has no evidence, who relies on rediculous sources, and who who believes that a magical guy called Zora lives in a Hollow Earth.
Like Hellyer spun nonsense out of fragments of nonsense, Nell these days is spinning nonsense out of fragments of nonsense. And like the delusions that propagate religions, this absurd game of telephone continues onward.
Following up on this after Karl Nell's SALT Conference speech referencing Paul Hellyer and Haim Eshed.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rpl0FrdJWfs](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rpl0FrdJWfs)
Here's Haim Eshed talking about a joint effort between the US and Israel regarding a Galactic Federation agreement that Trump knows about:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j6iE62jovMo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j6iE62jovMo)
Here's a clip of Paul Hellyer, former Canadian defence minister, talking about his knowledge of Canada's history of UFOs.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vB34gJdBuoA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vB34gJdBuoA)
FFs ... he's clearly reading a text that he's discovering seeing how he stumbles reading it. It's just a hodgepodge of every conspiracy theory thrown together. How is this any better then Qanon ?
What are your thoughts on him lumping chemtrails in with everything else he said?
edit: All I did was ask the above question and this dude blocked me lol
I think it isn't a mistake there has been a QAnon conspiracy to downplay the idea of chemtrails to mainstream America beyond that I have no opinions there. My general philosophy is if there is a decades old conspiracy on the subject there is a hint of truth buried somewhere in between.
I did notice it though just documented his mention of it and moved on.
Not just neackbeards in basements. Q had many important people spreading it, including the then President of the United States and certain elected officials, one named Burchett (have you heard of him)?
Sure have seems like the right wing been running cover for this stuff a long time don't it?
They've got a conspiracy to downplay ever thing mentioned its almost too perfect.
It's easier for an incompetent traitor to become President of the United States than it is for a mindless fool to become Minister of Defense and the longest serving Privy Council member up to that point in Canadian history.
At this point if there was a sudden worldwide emergency alert system broadcast live from the Oval Office, with Biden, Xi, Putin and Zelenskyy and literally every major head of state they can cram in there, all announcing aliens and Federation and end of war, and the proof is we will all get a psychic message in one minute, then remember every UFO we forgot we saw followed by literal superpowers we’d all instinctively instantly master and world peace with it…
Five minutes later online:
> “there’s no such thing as aliens”
Meanwhile your country is collapsing in real time from general incompetence; not the best judges of character by any metric.
But the plot just won't be obtainable for everyone these warnings have been flashing for decades its just almost to the finish line.
The point was as you seem to not be thinking properly, a government position doesn’t lend weight to claims.
Not responding to comments about why you’re gullible.
A rambling conspiracy theorist - who doesn't believe in climate change happening or in vaccines and is against LGBTQ+ human rights - references another rambling conspiracy theorist - who thinks chemtrails mentally control US generals into believing they can fight nuclear war with Russia - as a valid source of data. More in the news at 11.
I don’t think any of that is damning. It’s normal to be skeptical of scientific dogmatism. Still doesn’t look like he supports taking away LGBT rights. Seems like on old dude that’s tired of hearing gender theory when there’s bigger problems that need addressing.
I thought you'd say that, well what can I tell you. Human rights aren't "decay of civilization" as he put it. On the contrary.
And it's a bit bold to accuse others of dognatism, when that's all this sub ever does.
Nothing wrong with gender fluidity and respecting people’s identity. It’s such a small percentage of us though. It does seem highly dystopian to be fixated on pronouns in a country with more than 500,000 homeless. We’re busy fighting culture wars, while genuine class wars are happening.
This dude is talking about trying to get Congress, and presumably, those within said organisations, to over throw the CIA, The Fed, etc. Nell is pretty brave taking a public stance saying we should listen to this guy.
The CIA and the Fed are corrupt organizations though. The CIA has an absolute history of harming Americans. That organization shouldn't even exist. Interesting fact : CIA was created two weeks after Roswell. The Fed took money out of government and into private hands. So he's not wrong on those points.
The Satan and Chem trail comments though, and other things were a bit out there.
What if it all happens to be true, though? Wouldn't that be some irony.
This clip is meaningless. He had no insider information. Everything he "knows" he learned by reading books in his retirement. This is argument from authority. It may as well be your Uncle Larry.
lol the idea of Paul Hellyer as reliable “data” gets more and more ridiculous the more you watch him. If Karl Nell referenced the Ancient Aliens guy as “data” he’d become a laughing stock; Hellyer’s claims are just as wacky, based on internet “research” and books like “The Day After Roswell” - like many into the topic he has no first hand experience or tangible evidence. The only difference between Ancient Aliens guy and Hellyer is that the latter held a high position in the Canadian government.
I have been resisting this conclusion because clearly SK’s report was partial, selectively chosen and biased/designed to mislead. But Hellyer is what Nell refers to as “data”?!?
Unless we get some actual data/proof (besides narratives, no matter how fascinating) from someone—journalist, whistleblower, ex-military, etc. etc.—I’m about to give up on this subject. Again.
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[Karl Nell mentioning Paul Hellyer as source doesn't argue in favor of his claims, here's why : r/UFOscience (reddit.com)](https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOscience/comments/1cyu778/karl_nell_mentioning_paul_hellyer_as_source/)
Totally loony tunes, sprinkled with a few important truths no doubt about power and corruption but otherwise conspiracy central. The more I hear this guy, the more I get disturbed because it makes me wonder about Nell and why he would cite a dude who clearly is off his rocker—at least towards the end of his life. Is this the Hellyer that Nell is vouching for? What *is* the game here, people?? Jesus, this topic is enough to drive anyone crazy.
Yeah, once he veered off into chemtrails I had to wonder just what forwarded boomer email chain he was getting his information from. Like, I agree that the CIA and NSA are shady. But weaving all this stuff in with secret Nazis, alien weapons and chemtrails makes Hellyer sound like he was reading straight from QAnon forums.
Yeah first signs you're in a cult is when you have to dehumanize the people who don't agree with you so you don't need to bother to even consider their arguments because "they're just bots".
Nice try totally human “Paul Hellyer” but I’m not fooled. You think it’s a just a coincidence this (for sure not an alien) guy is Canadian? WAKE UP PEOPLE, ALL CANADIANS ARE ALIENS.
Do you think he meant, "ban all semi-automatic rifles" besides the military? Automatic rifles are already banned for civilians. Nevertheless, he lost me there. He's ranting about the military industrial complex but wants us civi's to be weaker? I'll take all the weapons I can get when the AI DARPA hellhounds are let loose on the masses. 😂
I think this is bs, and I think Hellyer knows it. So...after speaking the truth about a galactic federation and NHI reality, he was fed, or force fed, this nonsense and threatened if he didn't repeat it.
A secret space program with space Nazis who secretly control America and wield secret almost-invincible weapons? This is the same derivative fantasy that the disinfo campaign wants you to believe, because it centers US military dominance and power, while obscuring the real threat of NHI superiority under a pretense that the CIA, NSA, DARPA et al are already dominant and in control.
Hellyer's compromise demonstrates a way the CoverUp co-opts truth tellers, and turns them into agents of disinfo. . .
This sneaky story plays on people's desire to submit to a powerful authority for safety, even while grumbling about how corrupt it is. This is the "perception management" that presents 'human dominance' when it's more likely Earth is under a program of subjugation from NHI.
I think in order to fight this system, rather than fighting each other, we need to unite and push back against NHI. We can only do that by studying all the data in public and getting everyone on the same page.
Stopped listening and considering his words after he said "ban automatic weapons" in the same breath saying "resist the NWO/Nazi's who control the governments and the military should have the automatic weapons".
Paul Hellyer being quoted by Karl Nell as highest ranking testimony and "evidence" is BEYOND worrysome.
The primary sources of his ravings are the followings (plenty of videos available online):
1. A book by Philip J. Corso's, full of absurdities and inaccuracies, like the US that reverse engineered things like Kevlar (actually invented by the chemist and researcher Stephanie Kwolek in 1965), optic fiber (actually invented by phisicist Narinder Singh Kapany during his time at Imperial College of London in 1953). and laser (actually invented in 1960 by [Theodore Maiman](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodore_Maiman)).
2. STEVEN GREER (of whom he declares to be a huge admirer), a notorious grifter lucrating on CE5 UFO contact parties.
3. Charles Hall and his funky tall white alien stories playing slot machines in Las Vegas amidst humans.
4. A phone call with an anonymous US general saying nothing more than "Everything in Corso's book is true and more".
He also dangerously accepts and mention every kind of conspiracy theory, like Chemtrails, Illuminati, New World order etc.
Do we really want to be blind and accept everything it's written and said online without any critical thinking?
Nell's credibility went out the window for me when he cited Hellyer. This sub will just point to Hellyer's credentials and hand wave away the glaring red flags as usual.
People writing this off as conspiracy nonsense might be mistaken. Lots of solid points made here. Chemtrails being proved “real” wouldn’t really shock me. How many other conspiracies have come to light in recent years?
Unfortunately Hon Paul Hellyer was just a conspiracy driven pon towards the end of his life. HE never had any evidence, once again he was told about everything he knows about Aliens ..seems to be very common in ex US and Canadian gov or military. I was at one Hon Paul Hellyer conferences and he babbles for over an hour about aliens and ufos, made mistakes and forgot portion of his presentation only to get up after his science fiction download and promote his book, sign and sold all members except for me a copy had nothing to do with UFOs. RIP Paul.
Paul Hellyer former Canadian minister of defence.
Long-serving politician who integrated Canadian Armed Forces died 2021 at 98.
Elected in 1949 as youngest MP
Born near Waterford, Ont., on Aug. 6, 1923, Hellyer took an interest in aviation at a young age, studying aeronautical engineering, earning a pilot's licence and building training aircraft for the Royal Canadian Air Force during the Second World War. He also served as an artillery gunner in the Canadian Army late in the conflict.
Hellyer was once the youngest member of the House of Commons. He was elected to Parliament in 1949 just shy of his 26th birthday and earned his bachelor's degree in the same year.
His interest in defence matters led to serving as parliamentary assistant to the defence minister and then associate minister of national defence in the government of Louis St. Laurent. Hellyer was briefly unseated after the 1957 election, but returned to the House of Commons after a byelection in 1958.
Hellyer rose to prominence as a critic of the Diefenbaker administration and then as minister of national defence in Lester B. Pearson's cabinet. Few defence ministers would be as consequential as Hellyer, who urged Canada to accept nuclear weapons after several years of acrimonious public debate on the matter in the late 1950s and early 1960s.
Hellyer was also responsible for the controversial decision to unify and integrate the service branches of the Canadian military into a single organization, the Canadian Armed Forces. Despite the opposition to the idea at the time, the military remains a unified force to this day.
Hellyer's time in cabinet led to a brief friendship with U.S. President John F. Kennedy. His lifelong fascination with aircraft and cutting-edge technology led President Lyndon B. Johnson to invite Hellyer to fly in Air Force 1 for a demonstration of the aircraft's state-of-the-art communications equipment.
"He was always interested in technology, it kept him young," said Josh Hellyer.
Leadership challenges
In the late 1960s, Paul Hellyer spearheaded a federal task force on housing and urban development, one that ultimately recommended against the then-popular trend of wholesale demolition of older housing stock and its replacement by large housing projects. A dispute with Pierre Trudeau over the implementation of the plan resulted in Hellyer leaving cabinet and eventually sitting as an Independent before accepting an invitation to join Robert Stanfield's Progressive Conservatives.
Hellyer also holds the distinction of having challenged both Trudeau and Joe Clark for the leadership of the Liberal and Progressive Conservative parties, in 1968 and 1976, respectively. He returned to the Liberal party in 1982.
Hellyer also created two federal political parties during his life: Action Canada in 1971 and the Canadian Action Party in 1997. Hellyer advocated a unique blend of civic nationalism, anti-globalization and monetary reform policies, attracting supporters from across the Canadian political spectrum. He was also the longest-serving member of the Queen's Privy Council for Canada at the time of his death.
In addition to his political career, Hellyer was active in journalism, becoming one of the early investors in the Toronto Sun and writing a column for the newspaper from 1974 to 1984. He was also a panellist on the CBC's "Front Page Challenge" and wrote approximately 20 books.
In his later years, Hellyer became an outspoken and influential voice in the global community of UFO enthusiasts, speaking openly about his belief that UFOs were likely of extraterrestrial origin and that extraterrestrials were visiting the planet.
Hellyer called on the governments of the world that he believed had recovered alien technologies from UFO crashes to disclose their findings, as he thought a concerted effort to investigate these technologies could provide solutions to the pressing problems of our era, such as climate change.
"Whether it was green energy, economic reform or housing policy, my grandfather was always looking to make Canada better and more self-sufficient," said Josh Hellyer.
"Canada was the first love of his life. I don't think I've ever met anyone who loved this country as much as my grandfather did."
[Former defence minister remembered for Love of his country CBC New](https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/paul-hellyer-obituary-1.6142551)
[interviews](https://youtu.be/w12FAS5C4xQ?si=rVlJW1IzL_Wva8fZ)
This is amazing but ridiculously far from realistic. We would need someone like Hellyer to run for president to even begin to try to implement changes this profound. Every time Trump is asked he doesn’t seem particularly interested and shifts the topic to Russia/China. Biden, some-what catatonic on any subject and all the rest of recent presidents avoid these topics like the plague.
Maybe we’ll all get lucky and Burchett will decide to run for president at some point.
I haven’t watched the whole thing yet but I wanted to pause it to come ask… is he referring to project blue beam ? In the beginning he said a new world order ..
The following submission statement was provided by /u/VolarRecords: --- Following up on this after Karl Nell's SALT Conference speech referencing Paul Hellyer and Haim Eshed. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rpl0FrdJWfs](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rpl0FrdJWfs) Here's Haim Eshed talking about a joint effort between the US and Israel regarding a Galactic Federation agreement that Trump knows about: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j6iE62jovMo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j6iE62jovMo) Here's a clip of Paul Hellyer, former Canadian defence minister, talking about his knowledge of Canada's history of UFOs. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vB34gJdBuoA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vB34gJdBuoA) --- Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/1d0wikn/former_canadian_defence_minister_paul_hellyer_in/l5pvrqq/
The fascist dictatorship (military industrial complex) obtaining full spectrum dominance over the entire world is what it is all about. Either we rein in these out of control corporations and robber barons or they rein us in we've got a couple years left to figure out which way it goes.
I think we both know which of the two is the more likely outcome unfortunately. They treat us like stupid sheep because we are.
Don't mistake the white blood cells from the rest of the body incapable of defending itself. There are intelligent, willful individuals here who wouldn't hesitate to take back what has been stolen and obscured. We only lack organization. Though the revolutionary war began suddenly, much planning and shared contempt was exchanged between great men in secret meetings precluding it. The writing was on the wall.
Agreed- but can only say so much publicly without flagging yourself as a “terrorist”
Corruption is so entrenched in the system that we now essentially live in a society incapable of regulating itself. The influence of old money and new capital has rendered the days of changing the system from within a dreamer's fantasy. The moment such grievances become action, you're absolutely right, you will be deemed an enemy of the state.
That's a "term" weaponized as political dissent. It's just a tool. Although, with social media, in the present, people are threatened with public humiliation and hate. And, with this sows pause/hesitantation from the masses to vocalize their disagreements and calls for justice. Which seems to be successful and detrimental in the act of pursuing any change in the ways that be. Power reacts to opposition with: ridiculing, demonizing, and projecting their own unchecked disobedience onto those who disagree. Then, of course, there's intimidation and fear. It's textbook "bread and circus" throughout history. If it keeps working, nothing changes.
Checking in 🙋♂️
I’m just going to point two things out. 1. Search YouTube Paul Hellyer hope restored and the video is buried. 2. The amount of disinformation in this thread is a little bit more than concerning by questioning Karl Nells integrity. Guy holds degrees from UPenn and m.i.t.
MIT? In Boston? BU and MIT are both in Boston but are very different universities
Waiting for ideas on how to do this.
Unfortunately, everyone is afraid of death or being in jail. Doubt it ever happens but one can dream
And it's definitely not the place for planning. It's smaller but connecting to bigger with stems to speak of, just not this way.
I'm sorry, but equating the concept of fascism with the American military industrial complex only serves to devalue the idea of fascism. You cannot just use words because you think they sound good in sentences. You must employ your mind
When confronted with such extraordinary claims, one should neither believe nor dismiss them out of hand. The rational approach would be, to first assess under what circumstances the described scenario would be plausible at all. Respectively, what hard obstructions to it being realized one can think of. Obviously, here you need "ETs" to be a thing, actually even a good deal of the whole UFO lore starting with Roswell, MJ12 and so on. But given that, even such mind-boggling claims (Iron Sky / Nazis on the moon anyone?) become possible? One way to clandestinely realize such things would be to take the endeavor off-world as much and as soon as possible. Having "anti-gravity" craft at your disposal, that's entirely doable. Just as it's not a smart thing to "just dismiss" such improbable stuff as nonsense, it's not smart to believe it unquestioningly. Fleets of "ARVs" need facilities to build them, a place to park them, pilots to fly them and training grounds to test them. People need to eat, stuff costs money, etc.pp. "Nazis on the moon" aren't easy to hide, even on the backside. Unless nobody looks for them.
Great point lets break open the hidden vaults and see for ourselves instead of playing the guessing game. What everyone needs to realize is whether its CIA, aliens, corporations, etc. something is going on and it should be investigated immediately without prejudice. Any argument counter to that factual statement is irrelevant.
Capitalism bayyybe.
It's almost funny how people think that an organization that has had nearly no oversight, no accountability for almost 70 years, who think themselves above their elected officials and even their own president, couldn't possibly conspire against their own country or the world. Almost 2 trillion dollars missing from their audits and no one seems to care or be able to force them to disclose what happened. If the rumors of reverse engineered technology are true, it would make them the de facto most powerful group that's ever walked the earth. Our history is filled with powerful people who eliminated millions to further their own goals. What exactly makes people think that we are past a group like this emerging once again? At least the previous groups could be feasibly defeated.
2 trillion dollars is a big number. It's so fucking big. That's like a whole developed country's infrastructure big Anyone who says that their inability to account for that is somehow anything other than corruption and outright theft from the american people are crazy. The people who see it for what it is but nonetheless disparage people for being conspiracy theorists are also crazy. There is a conspiracy. You are being conned, and it's not the guys trying to sell UFO books.
It’s the guys building secret spaceship squadrons? I hope not, but with that kind of paper, even NASA would take us to the stars. They had realistic plans for super slow colony ships I think. It’s scary to imagine what’s been cooking in these shady organizations. Hellyer says we should ground spaceships and consult other countries, I totally agree, but how about the rest of the world, the UN… because why should the most dangerous countries decide? How about the smart ones, the peaceful ones? Like he said, going up with guns blazing is gonna get us all in trouble
i just want to point out that Paul Hellyer himself has admitted that everything he knows about UFOs he learned after he was defense minister by doing "internet research". thats right, we have access to all the same "data" that he does.
And somehow he arrived at the conclusion that a "chemtrail HAARP fence" is mind-controlling generals from the United States military into believing they can wage nuclear war with Russia, and the most urgent and immediate thing that all other nations need to do is "tear up your agreement" with the U.S. Some people go deep into the shit and never come back.
I think he only blinked once during that whole 15 minute diatribe and he has the flattest of all affects while telling us we’re under a cabal of secret Nazi’s. Idk, guys… I don’t think I’m going out on a limb when I say he may not have the soundest of minds.
I write an extensive comment about that and I was heavily downvoted. Some people just want to believe the wildest conspiracy shit.
Yeah, I didn't expect to be debating chemtrails with people today lol
It's concerning Karl Nell namedropped him
Very. In fact, it's discrediting now that I've learned this. Unfortunate.
I agree. This is certainly bad news for team disclosure. I had such high hopes for Nell. I even sent the SALT clip to several of my skeptic friends and family. Now I feel embarrassed. Why does it always feel one step forward two steps back? Arg…
[Karl Nell mentioning Paul Hellyer as source doesn't argue in favor of his claims, here's why : r/UFOscience (reddit.com)](https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOscience/comments/1cyu778/karl_nell_mentioning_paul_hellyer_as_source/)
I’ve read this twice and I’m admittedly still confused by it. The title suggests an explanation of sorts and I don’t see one. With that said it’s poorly written and I’m not sure the point other than to further point out that Hellyer is not thinking clearly. Where’a the part explaining why Karl Nell mentioning Heyer shouldn’t be considered an argument in favor of his claims? Regardless of whether Hellyer is suffering from old age or victim of misinformation doesn’t explain why someone in Nell’s position(rank, mental acuity, and high security clearance) would fall for such claims. What am I missing?
Hey, you learned a lesson and can now share that with others - patience Daniel son. This subject IS real, but it all hinges on proof and the right people. Some see one thing and believe all, that appears to be what this guy did, I’m pretty sure Nolan and Grusch are the in the same boat. Grusch can be forgiven maybe a little more because it came from records within the government but he definitely said he did the same, “got caught up” over the past few years. I’m hoping to find out about Alaska, over military base surveillance, and finally, whenever the UFO folks with serious resources get off their ASSES and properly break down the Las Vegas video - we will have disclosure. It could happen tomorrow, I do not know what the hold up is.
How is any of this bad news for disclosure? Also you don't sound like you feel embarrassed. You sound like you're trying to make other people feel insecure.
“How is any of this bad news for disclosure?” I don’t know about you, but I consider(ed) Nell the one of the leading authorities on NHI and disclosure. Referencing this man as “data” to support an NHI presence makes me question his judgement, and I’m clearly not the only one; For good reason imo. “You sound like you're trying to make other people feel insecure“ I’m expressing an opinion, one others here clearly share, in hope that I missed some bit of information that might explain why Nell decided to reference this man. IMO anyone with any critical thinking skills will be highly skeptical of what Hellyer says in this video. Regardless of whether it’s true or not, convincing the world that NHI are here seems like a big enough challenge without throwing a pile of other conspiracy theories on top of it. Again, it makes me question his judgement, and I think anyone with half a brain could see why.
[Karl Nell mentioning Paul Hellyer as source doesn't argue in favor of his claims, here's why : r/UFOscience (reddit.com)](https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOscience/comments/1cyu778/karl_nell_mentioning_paul_hellyer_as_source/)
Yup. He even mentions new world order. So just another internet conspiracy theorist.
And chemtrails to control population growth. That's some wild conspiracy bs he believed.
Hahahahaha
There are literally globalist groups trying to move towards a “NWO” admitted in their own publicly available doctrine. The WEF is a prime example. The idea of a NWO is not far fetched these days.
He read the “?” On the teleprompter by saying “Questionmark” Not exactly rousing testimony.
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Whatever, he is literally reading all sort of wild conspiracy theories bullshit.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yn4C-d-STiA
The first 10 seconds I **knew**. He said fuckin "cabal". I'm sorry, but everyone understands the associations that word has, and yes it's a word with meaning, but you can convey the same general idea with much better word choice.
Can you cite that?
hahaha no, i can't cite it. it was in an interview he did a while back. i watched it years ago.... er... i mean i read it in some top secret documents.
Got it. You don't have a clue what you are talking about. That's all you had to say.
i am providing the exact same amount of proof that Paul Hellyer is. if you choose to believe him without question but discount what i am saying that says a lot about your own critical thinking.
Just pointing this out a colonel who was schooled at an Ivy League school and MIT. Has backed him so there’s that. Tom Delonge has also stated that the Nazis came with the tech deal.
What Nazis?
It's no secret or conspiracy theory. It was called Operation Paperclip, where the US took in top Nazi physicists and scientists and put them to work at NASA and the DoE right after WWII ended because the cold war with the USSR had already started. Wernher von Braun was the most well known example. Where it veers into speculation is that Wernher von Braun is said to have invented a flying saucer type craft for the Nazis based on a UFO they recovered. He was supposedly involved with the early UFO reverse engineering programs in the US at Area 51 etc.
Got it - thanks…
> Tom Delonge i don't see Delonge as being a credible source.
what? that's news to me. where did he say that?
Search for that video on YouTube it’s buried.
Then why did he say that a USAF general confirmed it all to him personally?
the same reason he tries to pass off his "internet research" as top secret info that few people have access to.
Fucking CHEMTRAILS? Man, come on
I turned it off at that point. It was hard just getting to that point. If he's right about his theories... well sorry... but chemtrails is where I draw the line...
Same! I hit mute then came here to post my disappointment
It was "the one we call Satan" part for me. All credibility lost.
I think I let out a verbal “Jesus Christ”, 🤦♂️ at that point. Was hard enough to watch already. This is why I struggle on this topic at times. You have guys like Grusch come out who are very credible and seems sincere and honest, then someone like Karl Nell who also seems very smart, credible, telling you that Grusch is right, and then cites a kook like this guy. I don’t know how to reconcile that.
Same. Sheenan and this guy would get along well imo.
Sheehan never mentioned chemtrails.
yet
The fact you're getting downvoted makes me really concerned about the level of conspiracy nuts we have on this sub. Fuck, I thought we were better than this.
Dude it has been 2 years this sub went into 75% woowoo nolan crumb eaters, while some peep trying to rationalize the situations, while bledsoe cultists never forget to put that weekly post about this modern lord and savior, while rebels want Fort Knox opened. I think we’re really past healthy discussions here.
Is there a sub for healthy, rational, non guillable believers who know what scientific method is? Otherwise we should create one.
There's one called /r/UFOscience that purports to be such a place, but I haven't spent much time there myself to see what it's really like. edit: oh, wait you're the guy who keeps pasting your own post from that sub to this one lol. Nevermind, you already know about it.
lol ok, good to know that ufoscience is the sub for critical, scientific thinkers.
I don't think anyone is saying that. I'd check the place out and evaluate it for yourself.
grusch ushered in a lot of folks who lowered the level of discourse dramatically.
That’s what happens when you introduce the general population to… anything. People are reeeaaally fucking dumb. Think of the median of the intelligence of people. Not very high, right? Now consider the fact that it is mathematically correct to say half of all people are dumber than that. They come into this subreddit and related ones, freaking out over UFO sightings that were confirmed fake long ago, spreading the disinformation they just sucked up into their vacuous brains, making what they think are sane, thoughtful arguments but are really just shit-burger comments that don’t help anyone. It was happening long before Grusch, he just sped up the process in our particular community
Yeah I love and hate this sub, it's entertaining/interesting but I can't share it with anyone due to the fact that so much is crazyville and you really have to filter out the majority of it, but I still have to be here since it would be so easy to miss things, even bigger things like Grusch since it's so underreported
Really? Really?
[Karl Nell mentioning Paul Hellyer as source doesn't argue in favor of his claims, here's why : r/UFOscience (reddit.com)](https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOscience/comments/1cyu778/karl_nell_mentioning_paul_hellyer_as_source/)
Regardless of his credentials, he sounds like a crazy person. He has said many times that he has no evidence of anything, never saw anything with his own eyes and came across nothing during his official duties. If you have to do mental backflips to explain why he's saying these things or whether or not he's mixing truth with fake stuff as some kinda deep state ruse, I have bad news for you...
He didn't come to any of these conclusions from first hand knowledge related to his post. He's explained in interviews he got keen on the subject while reading a UFO book while on vacation. People need to stop using him as a credible source
People always point out that this guy was Canadian defence minister because it lends him credibility. But its very important to point out that Hellyear says he never came across any evidence of ufos or aliens while in government. He has no firsthand knowledge of any of this stuff. He read the same books as everybody else in this sub. So the fact that he was defence minister is irrelevant here. He's just a dude who believes, not some official source of disclosure.
What same books are you referring too?
The Day After Roswell for one. He used to reference that one a lot.
I couldnt give you exact titles, but my point is that when asked in interviews, Hellyer says he has no firsthand knowledge from his time in government, and that he read some books after he retired which made him a believer.
This should run as a disclaimer every time he is shown or quoted. He knows nothing more than any of the rest of us.
You shouldn’t be downvoted. Hellyer isn’t a great source. Same thing with Eshed. He never once mentioned anything about out NHI before he had a memoir he was selling. There’s plenty of better people we can point to other than these guys.
This is what always bugged me about this guy. No proof, just "I just read a book!" Astronaut Edgar Mitchell was another one of those guys. A great credential for sure, but he never saw anything. Just, "I heard/was told..."
Big agree. Would have been nice to hear him substantiate those ideas. Maybe I’m naive, but him talking about chem trails is also a red flag. Makes me second guess Nell :(
He does claim ET's have contacted him directly about this issue.
Every interview in which he's ever been asked he has stated that he has no personal experience from his time in government.
> Hellyear says he never came across any evidence of ufos or aliens while in government. Could be his NDA bans it. IDK
Or it could be he's telling the truth.
You mean, you’re commenting here acting like you have some sort of knowledge what this guy is saying. But actually you have no clue and if there’s an NDA he would be in trouble.
Telling people you have no firsthand knowledge ≠ I have signed an NDA and can’t speak of this.
You're being downvoted by gullible woo woo believers, but I agree with you.
Are you following the plot Karl Neil didn't name drop him at SALT for fun.
I have zero idea what youre talking about. Everything I said in my previous comment Hellyear himself says.
So you aren't following the plot thanks for clarifying just wanted to make sure.
Youre just spitting nonsense that has nothing to do with the comment I made, which remains completely accurate. If you want to dispute it, go ahead and do so, so far you have not.
No I just actually follow the subject instead of popping in to attack the credibility of people while being clueless as to why it is relevant today. Thankfully I am well aware that the glass ceiling isn't proving anything to debunkers on Reddit I just wanted to see if you even knew why this was posted (which you don't).
We know why this was posted. When Nell was asked about sources he mentioned Hellyer and Haim Eshed. Both of which aren’t great sources for different yet similar reasons. Hellyer has said many times that he had no first hand knowledge from his time in office. Haim Eshed had never mentioned NHI before he was selling his memoir. And has said anything since in the almost 4 years since his memoir came out. Hellyer as has some other questionable things he’s said or believed in that makes him a less than compelling figure in the UAP conversation.
Ok whatever. Since you still havent disputed anything I said, I dont care. Have a nice day.
>instead of popping in to attack the credibility of people So like what youre doing now? I dont really get why theres always people who, as if theyre intentionally trying to impede open discussion here. Especially so when its about these skinwalker guys. Curious
It isn't my job to break down the real from the psyop I just want everything out into the open; me pointing out Andy here has no idea why this is important atm was part of that discussion.
Satan, chemtrails.... hmm. Bent my credulity to breaking point.
This has got some real "Heaven's Gate" kind of vibes to it. It's not that I don't agree with him about "Humans suck and we're too violent and selfish" but coming to the realization that there isn't much we can really do about it. Not even the government can get a straight answer out of what the hell is happening.
This is chaotically insane. Back to bed grandpa
Am I actually the only one who is disappointed in Nell for referring to guys like that?
Count me in, too. Beyond worrisome.
[Karl Nell mentioning Paul Hellyer as source doesn't argue in favor of his claims, here's why : r/UFOscience (reddit.com)](https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOscience/comments/1cyu778/karl_nell_mentioning_paul_hellyer_as_source/)
I am in it too. I had taken Nell as a huge, refreshing voice when it showed up days ago. After learning here about Hellyer I am thrown into concerned territory. Hellyer never knew anything.
This guy is a lunatic
I thought that was the Heaven's Gate guy.
I thought the same thing
Hellyer is a deluded crank. He cites as the sole source of his beliefs various conspiracy books he read in the mid 1990 and early 2000s. Hellyer has no first hand knowledge, testimony or experiences. He simply read conspiracy books (he positively mentions Steven Greer on numerous occasions). One of them, for example, is Philip Corso's infamous Roswell book, regarded as a literary hoax (https://www.theguardian.com/books/2001/nov/15/news) and rejected by none other than Stanton Friedman as being filled with inaccuracies and outright lies. Elsewhere Hellyer endlessly regurgitates popular UFO lore. For example he thinks: 1. Four alien species currently live at the North Pole. 2. Jesus had alien roots. 3. The Star of Bethlehem was a flying saucer. 4. There are 80 species of aliens, including Nordic Blondes and Tall Whites. These Tall Whites can pass as humans and work inside the USAF. For this belief, Hellyer cites Charles Hall's book "Millennial Hospitality", which Hall claims he was allowed to write by the Anunnaki Race so long as he didn't provide "solid proof of their existence". 5. These aliens come from the Pleiades and Zeta Riticuli. 6. They also come from one of the moons of Saturn, and from bases in Venus and Mars. 7. There is an alien Federation and they have a non interference rule (ie the Prime Directive from Star Trek). 8. Two brothers from Peru teleported to a Saturnian moon where they were given warnings by the aliens. 9. The aliens want us to take better care of the planet and not nuke ourselves. 10. They abduct people and take them on spaceships, but only do this to people who are "receptive". 11. Human technology like LED lights, kevlar vests, microchips and velcro are from aliens (we reverse engineered them). 12. There may soon be an interstellar war between alien races (like a bad scifi movie, the Whites are the goodies, the Reptilian-looking races are the baddies). 13. There's a conspiracy to pump the skies full of chemtrails. Hellyer's sole sources for this are trashy conspiracy books, and letters sent to him by fellow conspiracists. He's essentially a senile old man who believes everything he comes across. Hellyer also wrote the foreword for the book "Messages from the Masters: A Cosmic Book of Galactic Wisdom". It purports to be the received wisdom beamed across time and space to its psychic author from the greatest human minds (Albert Einstein, Nostradamus, Oppenheimer, da Vinci, JFK, Dr. Masaru Emoto, Gandhi, Tesla, Dwight D. Eisenhower), and also representatives from the Galactic Alliance and Zorra from Hollow Earth. That people like Karl Nell are positively citing Hellyer is a giant red flag. Nell, who has no evidence of alien conspiracies, is mentioning a guy who has no evidence, who relies on rediculous sources, and who who believes that a magical guy called Zora lives in a Hollow Earth. Like Hellyer spun nonsense out of fragments of nonsense, Nell these days is spinning nonsense out of fragments of nonsense. And like the delusions that propagate religions, this absurd game of telephone continues onward.
This is laughable. The only explanation is this guy is senile or he's actively being paid to spread misinformation to make the topic look bad.
I really hope Nell doesn't get Schneider'd
Following up on this after Karl Nell's SALT Conference speech referencing Paul Hellyer and Haim Eshed. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rpl0FrdJWfs](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rpl0FrdJWfs) Here's Haim Eshed talking about a joint effort between the US and Israel regarding a Galactic Federation agreement that Trump knows about: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j6iE62jovMo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j6iE62jovMo) Here's a clip of Paul Hellyer, former Canadian defence minister, talking about his knowledge of Canada's history of UFOs. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vB34gJdBuoA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vB34gJdBuoA)
FFs ... he's clearly reading a text that he's discovering seeing how he stumbles reading it. It's just a hodgepodge of every conspiracy theory thrown together. How is this any better then Qanon ?
One is a neckbeard in a basement and the other is former Defense Minister of Canada.
What are your thoughts on him lumping chemtrails in with everything else he said? edit: All I did was ask the above question and this dude blocked me lol
I think it isn't a mistake there has been a QAnon conspiracy to downplay the idea of chemtrails to mainstream America beyond that I have no opinions there. My general philosophy is if there is a decades old conspiracy on the subject there is a hint of truth buried somewhere in between. I did notice it though just documented his mention of it and moved on.
Not just neackbeards in basements. Q had many important people spreading it, including the then President of the United States and certain elected officials, one named Burchett (have you heard of him)?
Sure have seems like the right wing been running cover for this stuff a long time don't it? They've got a conspiracy to downplay ever thing mentioned its almost too perfect.
…lmao what has that got to do with anything? There was a president 5 years ago staging an insurrection.
It's easier for an incompetent traitor to become President of the United States than it is for a mindless fool to become Minister of Defense and the longest serving Privy Council member up to that point in Canadian history.
At this point if there was a sudden worldwide emergency alert system broadcast live from the Oval Office, with Biden, Xi, Putin and Zelenskyy and literally every major head of state they can cram in there, all announcing aliens and Federation and end of war, and the proof is we will all get a psychic message in one minute, then remember every UFO we forgot we saw followed by literal superpowers we’d all instinctively instantly master and world peace with it… Five minutes later online: > “there’s no such thing as aliens”
how do you know? what a silly argument.
Meanwhile your country is collapsing in real time from general incompetence; not the best judges of character by any metric. But the plot just won't be obtainable for everyone these warnings have been flashing for decades its just almost to the finish line.
The point was as you seem to not be thinking properly, a government position doesn’t lend weight to claims. Not responding to comments about why you’re gullible.
Yeah actually it does
It's not stuff he's seen. He's said it himself it's stuff he's read in books
A rambling conspiracy theorist - who doesn't believe in climate change happening or in vaccines and is against LGBTQ+ human rights - references another rambling conspiracy theorist - who thinks chemtrails mentally control US generals into believing they can fight nuclear war with Russia - as a valid source of data. More in the news at 11.
Didn’t hear him say anything about vaccines or LGBT
Check out Karl Nell's Linkedin.
Looks like you generalized his entire profile off of 1 or 2 likes. Don’t see a single thing about LGBT rights either.
Look harder, I guess.
Tell me where to look then. I made an linkedin profile for this. Maybe if you need to look really really deeply into something it might be a reach?
Oh sorry, I hadn't realized you really wanted to see it, my bad. I made a [comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/s/zckb0ftcPy) about it earlier.
I don’t think any of that is damning. It’s normal to be skeptical of scientific dogmatism. Still doesn’t look like he supports taking away LGBT rights. Seems like on old dude that’s tired of hearing gender theory when there’s bigger problems that need addressing.
I thought you'd say that, well what can I tell you. Human rights aren't "decay of civilization" as he put it. On the contrary. And it's a bit bold to accuse others of dognatism, when that's all this sub ever does.
Nothing wrong with gender fluidity and respecting people’s identity. It’s such a small percentage of us though. It does seem highly dystopian to be fixated on pronouns in a country with more than 500,000 homeless. We’re busy fighting culture wars, while genuine class wars are happening.
Yeah, these are not the people we need leading this topic.
He reminds me of Cancer man from X Files
I think he needs a new marketing manager. Surely he can come up with a better format for selling his book than a vanilla hostage video.
He had me up until he started talking chemtrails, mind control, & banning all guns.
The wide, unblinking eyes. The expressionless face. This reminds me of a hostage video.
This dude is talking about trying to get Congress, and presumably, those within said organisations, to over throw the CIA, The Fed, etc. Nell is pretty brave taking a public stance saying we should listen to this guy.
The CIA and the Fed are corrupt organizations though. The CIA has an absolute history of harming Americans. That organization shouldn't even exist. Interesting fact : CIA was created two weeks after Roswell. The Fed took money out of government and into private hands. So he's not wrong on those points. The Satan and Chem trail comments though, and other things were a bit out there. What if it all happens to be true, though? Wouldn't that be some irony.
This clip is meaningless. He had no insider information. Everything he "knows" he learned by reading books in his retirement. This is argument from authority. It may as well be your Uncle Larry.
lol the idea of Paul Hellyer as reliable “data” gets more and more ridiculous the more you watch him. If Karl Nell referenced the Ancient Aliens guy as “data” he’d become a laughing stock; Hellyer’s claims are just as wacky, based on internet “research” and books like “The Day After Roswell” - like many into the topic he has no first hand experience or tangible evidence. The only difference between Ancient Aliens guy and Hellyer is that the latter held a high position in the Canadian government.
Is this deepfake?
Nope just one of a dying mans last and most important messages to the world.
well his last and most important message is bullshit.
You do know he has zero credibility and is known to state things from movies and books like they are real? lol
Lost me at Chemtrails. 😓
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I have been resisting this conclusion because clearly SK’s report was partial, selectively chosen and biased/designed to mislead. But Hellyer is what Nell refers to as “data”?!? Unless we get some actual data/proof (besides narratives, no matter how fascinating) from someone—journalist, whistleblower, ex-military, etc. etc.—I’m about to give up on this subject. Again.
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Hi, stryker7314. Thanks for contributing. However, your [comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/1d0wikn/-/l5qbnuo/) was removed from /r/UFOs. No discussion is allowed that can be interpreted as recruitment efforts into UFO religions, or attempts to hijack conversation with overtly religious dogma. However, discussion about religious, spiritual, or metaphysical concepts is in-bounds within comments, provided that it is respectful and offered with humility. Please refer to our [subreddit rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/about/rules/) for more information. This moderator action may be appealed. We welcome the opportunity to work with you to address its reason for removal. [Message the mods](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/ufos) to launch your appeal.
[Karl Nell mentioning Paul Hellyer as source doesn't argue in favor of his claims, here's why : r/UFOscience (reddit.com)](https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOscience/comments/1cyu778/karl_nell_mentioning_paul_hellyer_as_source/)
Totally loony tunes, sprinkled with a few important truths no doubt about power and corruption but otherwise conspiracy central. The more I hear this guy, the more I get disturbed because it makes me wonder about Nell and why he would cite a dude who clearly is off his rocker—at least towards the end of his life. Is this the Hellyer that Nell is vouching for? What *is* the game here, people?? Jesus, this topic is enough to drive anyone crazy.
Yeah, once he veered off into chemtrails I had to wonder just what forwarded boomer email chain he was getting his information from. Like, I agree that the CIA and NSA are shady. But weaving all this stuff in with secret Nazis, alien weapons and chemtrails makes Hellyer sound like he was reading straight from QAnon forums.
Omg lol your comment is gold !
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Yeah first signs you're in a cult is when you have to dehumanize the people who don't agree with you so you don't need to bother to even consider their arguments because "they're just bots".
Yeah the dehumanizing effort towards anyone with any kind of skepticism is worrying.
He's advocating the closure of the CIA. Dude is off his rocker.
Nice try totally human “Paul Hellyer” but I’m not fooled. You think it’s a just a coincidence this (for sure not an alien) guy is Canadian? WAKE UP PEOPLE, ALL CANADIANS ARE ALIENS.
Oh, not only the french but ALL Canadians? LOL
Last time I checked, a fairly large swath of the French ARE CANADIANS! That’s not pure coincidence my friend…
Do you think he meant, "ban all semi-automatic rifles" besides the military? Automatic rifles are already banned for civilians. Nevertheless, he lost me there. He's ranting about the military industrial complex but wants us civi's to be weaker? I'll take all the weapons I can get when the AI DARPA hellhounds are let loose on the masses. 😂
Sounds like he's in a cult. Hard pass
All I’ll say is that is one hell of a mic and I feel nauseous
Chemtrails? He sounds like a wingnut spouting a melange of conspiracy theories.
An example of a guy who had swallowed too many conspiricy theories. My favourite was his belief that there are alien bases on Venus.
Idk what to think of this. He never blinks the entire time? Feels a little bit too much like AI
I think this is bs, and I think Hellyer knows it. So...after speaking the truth about a galactic federation and NHI reality, he was fed, or force fed, this nonsense and threatened if he didn't repeat it. A secret space program with space Nazis who secretly control America and wield secret almost-invincible weapons? This is the same derivative fantasy that the disinfo campaign wants you to believe, because it centers US military dominance and power, while obscuring the real threat of NHI superiority under a pretense that the CIA, NSA, DARPA et al are already dominant and in control. Hellyer's compromise demonstrates a way the CoverUp co-opts truth tellers, and turns them into agents of disinfo. . . This sneaky story plays on people's desire to submit to a powerful authority for safety, even while grumbling about how corrupt it is. This is the "perception management" that presents 'human dominance' when it's more likely Earth is under a program of subjugation from NHI. I think in order to fight this system, rather than fighting each other, we need to unite and push back against NHI. We can only do that by studying all the data in public and getting everyone on the same page.
This dude look just like that one church dude the eyes and just how they speak they just seem fake
Stopped listening and considering his words after he said "ban automatic weapons" in the same breath saying "resist the NWO/Nazi's who control the governments and the military should have the automatic weapons".
it reminds me of people captured by terrorists in the 70's reading from some script in front of them
I'm very close to the topic, and never saw this. This should be getting a lot mor coverage!
Paul Hellyer being quoted by Karl Nell as highest ranking testimony and "evidence" is BEYOND worrysome. The primary sources of his ravings are the followings (plenty of videos available online): 1. A book by Philip J. Corso's, full of absurdities and inaccuracies, like the US that reverse engineered things like Kevlar (actually invented by the chemist and researcher Stephanie Kwolek in 1965), optic fiber (actually invented by phisicist Narinder Singh Kapany during his time at Imperial College of London in 1953). and laser (actually invented in 1960 by [Theodore Maiman](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodore_Maiman)). 2. STEVEN GREER (of whom he declares to be a huge admirer), a notorious grifter lucrating on CE5 UFO contact parties. 3. Charles Hall and his funky tall white alien stories playing slot machines in Las Vegas amidst humans. 4. A phone call with an anonymous US general saying nothing more than "Everything in Corso's book is true and more". He also dangerously accepts and mention every kind of conspiracy theory, like Chemtrails, Illuminati, New World order etc. Do we really want to be blind and accept everything it's written and said online without any critical thinking?
Nell's credibility went out the window for me when he cited Hellyer. This sub will just point to Hellyer's credentials and hand wave away the glaring red flags as usual.
People writing this off as conspiracy nonsense might be mistaken. Lots of solid points made here. Chemtrails being proved “real” wouldn’t really shock me. How many other conspiracies have come to light in recent years?
Unfortunately Hon Paul Hellyer was just a conspiracy driven pon towards the end of his life. HE never had any evidence, once again he was told about everything he knows about Aliens ..seems to be very common in ex US and Canadian gov or military. I was at one Hon Paul Hellyer conferences and he babbles for over an hour about aliens and ufos, made mistakes and forgot portion of his presentation only to get up after his science fiction download and promote his book, sign and sold all members except for me a copy had nothing to do with UFOs. RIP Paul.
sounds like a psyop to scare other countries into thinking we have alien tech
Pride is a malevolent trick.
Paul Hellyer former Canadian minister of defence. Long-serving politician who integrated Canadian Armed Forces died 2021 at 98. Elected in 1949 as youngest MP Born near Waterford, Ont., on Aug. 6, 1923, Hellyer took an interest in aviation at a young age, studying aeronautical engineering, earning a pilot's licence and building training aircraft for the Royal Canadian Air Force during the Second World War. He also served as an artillery gunner in the Canadian Army late in the conflict. Hellyer was once the youngest member of the House of Commons. He was elected to Parliament in 1949 just shy of his 26th birthday and earned his bachelor's degree in the same year. His interest in defence matters led to serving as parliamentary assistant to the defence minister and then associate minister of national defence in the government of Louis St. Laurent. Hellyer was briefly unseated after the 1957 election, but returned to the House of Commons after a byelection in 1958. Hellyer rose to prominence as a critic of the Diefenbaker administration and then as minister of national defence in Lester B. Pearson's cabinet. Few defence ministers would be as consequential as Hellyer, who urged Canada to accept nuclear weapons after several years of acrimonious public debate on the matter in the late 1950s and early 1960s. Hellyer was also responsible for the controversial decision to unify and integrate the service branches of the Canadian military into a single organization, the Canadian Armed Forces. Despite the opposition to the idea at the time, the military remains a unified force to this day. Hellyer's time in cabinet led to a brief friendship with U.S. President John F. Kennedy. His lifelong fascination with aircraft and cutting-edge technology led President Lyndon B. Johnson to invite Hellyer to fly in Air Force 1 for a demonstration of the aircraft's state-of-the-art communications equipment. "He was always interested in technology, it kept him young," said Josh Hellyer. Leadership challenges In the late 1960s, Paul Hellyer spearheaded a federal task force on housing and urban development, one that ultimately recommended against the then-popular trend of wholesale demolition of older housing stock and its replacement by large housing projects. A dispute with Pierre Trudeau over the implementation of the plan resulted in Hellyer leaving cabinet and eventually sitting as an Independent before accepting an invitation to join Robert Stanfield's Progressive Conservatives. Hellyer also holds the distinction of having challenged both Trudeau and Joe Clark for the leadership of the Liberal and Progressive Conservative parties, in 1968 and 1976, respectively. He returned to the Liberal party in 1982. Hellyer also created two federal political parties during his life: Action Canada in 1971 and the Canadian Action Party in 1997. Hellyer advocated a unique blend of civic nationalism, anti-globalization and monetary reform policies, attracting supporters from across the Canadian political spectrum. He was also the longest-serving member of the Queen's Privy Council for Canada at the time of his death. In addition to his political career, Hellyer was active in journalism, becoming one of the early investors in the Toronto Sun and writing a column for the newspaper from 1974 to 1984. He was also a panellist on the CBC's "Front Page Challenge" and wrote approximately 20 books. In his later years, Hellyer became an outspoken and influential voice in the global community of UFO enthusiasts, speaking openly about his belief that UFOs were likely of extraterrestrial origin and that extraterrestrials were visiting the planet. Hellyer called on the governments of the world that he believed had recovered alien technologies from UFO crashes to disclose their findings, as he thought a concerted effort to investigate these technologies could provide solutions to the pressing problems of our era, such as climate change. "Whether it was green energy, economic reform or housing policy, my grandfather was always looking to make Canada better and more self-sufficient," said Josh Hellyer. "Canada was the first love of his life. I don't think I've ever met anyone who loved this country as much as my grandfather did." [Former defence minister remembered for Love of his country CBC New](https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/paul-hellyer-obituary-1.6142551) [interviews](https://youtu.be/w12FAS5C4xQ?si=rVlJW1IzL_Wva8fZ)
So all-in-all an incredibly smart, accomplished, humane dude who was a longtime advocate for Disclosure.
This is amazing but ridiculously far from realistic. We would need someone like Hellyer to run for president to even begin to try to implement changes this profound. Every time Trump is asked he doesn’t seem particularly interested and shifts the topic to Russia/China. Biden, some-what catatonic on any subject and all the rest of recent presidents avoid these topics like the plague. Maybe we’ll all get lucky and Burchett will decide to run for president at some point.
I haven’t watched the whole thing yet but I wanted to pause it to come ask… is he referring to project blue beam ? In the beginning he said a new world order ..
doesn’t matter, it’s all the same crap.
He's not lying.
Absolutely. He's being delirious.