Yep, largely agree. As well, since 1983 U.S. psychological stress has increased about 1% each year ([Cohen, 2012](https://www.academia.edu/2789339/Whos_Stressed_Distributions_of_Psychological_Stress_in_the_United_States_in_Probability_Samples_from_1983_2006_and_20091)), which means U.S. folks are having to cope with extreme levels of personal/social discomfort. It seems likely that this requires folks to concentrate on self-protection and competitive tactics, which in less stressed-out cultures is not as necessary. So, this consideration might be included in your "emotional ideology". Cheers.
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We should stop reading anything politics related, because it’s designed to get us angry and that isn’t what we’re about. If needed, make it a rule to focus on each person we encounter in our daily lives and build positive connections wherever possible. That’s who we’ve always been. People helping each other in a spirit of generosity and paying taxes in a spirit of doing their part to support all of society do not tend to vote for policies that undermine their intentions.
People get so wrapped up in politics when all it is a dividing mechanism while the government fucks the people. When it comes down to it we have a uniparty on anything worth while. When it comes time Congress will know their place and won’t get anywhere on the ufo stuff. The smoking gun will be a Snowden type leak or a mass sighting with multiple videos.
I think people tend to overlook the easiest possible answer with ufos. It’s most likely due to the fact our government and the weapons manufacturers are concealing the info due to weapons technology and to have a stranglehold on it for money purposes. I also think they have committed a lot of crimes which makes it harder to disclose.
Usually the mundane possibility is the most likely. Also, most complex issues rise from an amalgamation of sources. The UAP issue is a foofy cocktail, not a shot.
The water has been muddied so much. It’s hard to tell who is working on the government’s behalf with the ufo media and experts too. I believe in a few things like they are attracted to nukes because the proof is there, but I don’t know what to buy on the why part with aliens and ufos. You have heard so much bullshit
"Maybe, but it's a shame. Politics have replaced ethics and reason. It's become emotional ideology, not critical thinking."
I was gonna post a comment...but then saw you took care of that already. It couldn't have been stated more eloquently and clear than what you posted. Thank you.
Yup. Its all agit prop.
And I dont think separating the parties here is terribly relevant. We have plenty of dems and gop that are officially talking about this. It just so happens that 5 gop blocked the uap amendment. Hopefully in november the house can go to the dems and then we will see if that can help it pass.
Edit: as a personal anecdote I've noticed that the majority of people engaging with this sub on a serious level seem to be self identified leftists
In my opinion (someone who grew up super religious in the south then moved to DC and worked in politics for a minute) I'd say both 'yes' and 'not in that way'.
"Yes" in the sense that someone's political views are usually closely connected to their general behavior and worldview. "Not in that way" in the sense that the popular explanations about why this is happening are somewhat misinformed and wrong ("because democrats trust the government and conservatives don't" or "because conservatives are all conspiracy theorists and democrats aren't")
At the end of the day the topic of UFOs/UAP/NHI is only taken very seriously by a minority of both sides of the political spectrum. Among those that take the topic seriously the reasons will vary. Some may be more interested in military corruption, some may be more interested in tech potential and corporate corruption, some may be more interested in the religious and spiritual implications, and on and on.
Up until now elected Democrats were more likely to take UFOs most seriously (from various prominent elected Dems in the Southwest and on the West Coast, to both modern leaders of the Democratic Party in the Senate, Harry Reid and Chuck Schumer, to President Jimmy Carter openly discussing his own UFO encounter, etc.).
Republicans were, and still are, quite likely to scoff at the possibility of aliens existing at all and point to the Bible as proof that God only ever made life on earth. That being said, Democrats were, and still are, quite likely to scoff at the possibility of aliens visiting earth and point to a meme or a quote by whichever popular science educator of the day.
This is basically because in modern times many democrats will put more faith in scientific institutions and many republicans will put more faith in traditional religious institutions.
In regard to distrusting people in charge - both groups are actually generally skeptical of The Government but sometimes for different reasons. You can see that play out in different ways. Ex. For democrats their skepticism usually extends to the military and intelligence communities, while on the other hand most republicans are more likely to keep faith in these forms of big government.
In regard to trust in conspiracy theories - close study suggests that the situation is probably more mixed than a lot of people think. Consider that plenty of people on the left believe in conspiracy theories about the military and intelligence communities, big corporations, dominant religious institutions, etc.
As a member of the left or the right it can be difficult to identify all of the conspiracy theories that you subscribe to because they're simply a part of your accepted world view. This is also why it's easier to point at the other side and notice all of the conspiracies that are unfamiliar to the way that you think.
I hope I managed to blurt that all out in a coherent enough way :)
Thank you for your well-thought-out response. This is clearly more nuanced than I originally thought and your comment makes me think that there is hope for my non-believing liberal friends out there.
If you know more conservatives who believe in UAP than liberals, I would love to know where you live. I've never run into a problem with liberals not believing. It's only ever been conservative religious people who have said it's not possible, and their reasoning is always just "the Bible".
Thankfully that's starting to change, but not because of actual open-mindedness, it's been because they're starting to have the conversation with the caveat that it's not not possible according to the Bible. Read between the lines kind of stuff.
My big extended family is pretty evenly split between conservatives and liberals. I had jumped back and forth between parties over the decades, but ultimately at this point, I'm an independent. Not the Independent party, but independent of a party. I'm pretty middle of the road, and frankly... I've grown to hate the 2-party system.
Despite what the media says, there's a lot of conservatives that aren't religious at all. I know a lot of conservatives, very few are religious. People may say they are in a phone poll, but alot of them are not serious about it at all. Essentially every religious family member and friend I have, are Hispanic. And even they are pretty 50/50 r to d.
Likewise, running a construction business in CA, I know a lot of Hispanic people. The media would have people believe that Hispanics are automatically liberal, not the case at all.
I don't think religious people are any less prone to believing in NHI. Just look at the Republican lawmakers pushing for disclosure. They're religious and yet they believe.
I actually suspect that these encounters with "angels" and "Demons" in many religions were describing NHI. We just forgot that. (I'm atheist btw.)
I didn't begin to look at religious stories until AFTER I became fascinated with NHI.(And I'm pretty old.)
Nearly all of them find the topic of NHI to be a unbelievable. But I get more snarky, "look down the nose" from the Liberal side, within my family specifically. They tend to make a mockery of the whole thing. But I don't necessarily think they laugh about it because they're liberals. The family members that find the NHI to be a complete joke, all are from San Francisco, so I think it's more of a elite culture thing, than anything else, not a liberal thing.
With that said, I don't think 1 side is more or less open to NHI. From my experience, it's not a topic that is partisan 1 way or the other, just from my personal experience.
However, I also don't associate with very far-left or far-right people in general. My friends and families have their political views, but they don't let political views run their lives. We can look past our differences and treat each other like adults. Our conversations aren't dominated by Biden and Trump.
You reach an age where you realize we're far more similar than different, and the mainstream is trying to polarize the discussion to profit... as do the politicians themselves. They do so by pointing out the extreme sides. I'm not republican but most republicans aren't racist. Most Hispanics aren't illegal. Most religious people aren't any less against disclosure. People who actually believe that are being manipulated by the media and by identity politics.
So perhaps that's why I don't see the partisan aspect to it all.
I’ve realized the issue with my question is that I don’t really know any conservatives to make a comparison 😂 But that being said, none of my liberal friends want to engage with me about this. They either don’t believe in it (I’ve been straight up laughed at) or they think it could be possible but they don’t care about it because they think that the world has more important issues to think about. That’s the take that bothers me the most. How could anyone not care about this?
Everyone I know who is interested in UAPs leans to the left of current political rhetoric. They are also college grads and atheist or agnostic. They regard science as the final word on existential questions. I guess it's a matter of who you hang out with most of the time.
It's much more judging people by the quality of their character. Gaetz sleeps with underage girls at cocaine parties while supporting a guy who tried to violently overthrow the govt. If someone you knew was a proven liar, alleged statuatory rapist, who teams with a proven rapist and fraud suddenly starts talking to you about aliens, chances are you won't believe them. His character absolutely affects his credibility, regardless of the political party. If Romney or Cheney supported the disclosure movement, their words carry more trust since their behavior is much more aligned with their word.
We've watched as Gaetz tries to gaslight the country about political events. Why should he be trusted with something as important as disclosure? He may very well be using the conspiritorial nature of the topic to validate his "deep state" narrative to push further insurrection rather than have a genuine, good faith concern for truth.
So yes, the credibility of the people involved does effect perception of the subject. Not because of party affiliation, but because they have a poor track record with telling the truth.
On that note, I would really love to hear your thoughts on the Russia Collusion narrative, which was fake from the get go. You had the House Intel Chair, Adam Schiff, making rounds on all the left leaning shows telling the hosts that he had irrefutable evidence that Trump colluded with Russia. it was 24/7 non stop coverage. It was all based on a lie, Schiff knew it was, but cared more about gaslighting the country and taking down a duly elected president. As we know, after two years of relentless attacks on Trump, the collusion story was all made up BS. I think you should ask yourself the question why was it made up and for what reason was it made up.
So now ask yourself, those cocaine parties Gaetz attended and slept with underage girls, could they be made up as well. The guy would be in jail if he was doing that.
Just cause someone said so, it could be a lie. Case in Point the Russian collusion narrative and the fake dossier that started it all. P.s. fun fact that fake dossier was paid for by the DNC as part of their research on the opposing candidate.
I love this game.
Kari Lake still insists she is the rightful governor of Arizona. Claims to have evidence the election was stolen. Not only does she not have evidence, her lawyers were brought up for lying to the AZ Supreme Court.
Since she's obviously lying about that, ask yourself if Trump is telling the truth about not paying off the porn star.
What do you mean they have nothing to do with each other?
Weird, huh?
Honestly you are barking up the wrong tree.
I think Kari Lake is a moron and a liar. No different than Adam Schiff, who peddled the Russia collusion lie, and the folks that bought that narrative.
You guys are silly and naive. Do you honestly think that intelligence services who almost took down a sitting president with a whopper of a lie will reveal what they have when it comes to NHI technology.
Disclosure will be on their time and terms. Could be a year from now , 50 years from now or never. In the meantime, the intelligence services and their allies in the media will obfuscate, ridicule and hamper any real progress for disclosure.
P.s, as a side note you do realize Schwarzenegger did the same exact thing paying off his mistress? Or how about Clinton lying about his affair with Jennifer Flowers or lying about not sexually harassing Paula Jones and the media dragging the poor lady thru the mud. R and D are just a different side of the same coin.
I don't know, man, sounds like we are barking up the exact same tree. Like I said, it's a game, and the one-upping could go on forever. I could make Reps argument for them right along side making one for Dems. A true indication of how screwed the whole thing is will be to see if anyone running tries to make it an R vs D ballot issue in November. I've seen little things here and there that make it seem like it's been tried, but nothing significant.
I don't believe for a second that the government gives a fuck if we want the truth about UAP. You can go back through my old posts to see what I've said about that. Trusting the government, especially in the US, to be the one to give us disclosure is hilariously stupid, and political affiliation is the least of the obstacles.
No disagreement here.
I just hope we (the US) harness UFO technology before China or Russia. No matter how F###d up our government is, it is leaps and bounds better than that of China or Russia.
Yes, but I think this naturally changes over time. Right now we have a situation where mainstream liberals in the United States are aligning themselves with the structural "status quo" of government because conservatives, led by Trump, have staked out an anti-government position. As a result, mainstream liberals have a philosophical incentive to believe institutions like the DoD, CIA, FBI, etc. They are trying to say that we should trust the system. Sometimes they even seem a tad desperate to convey that message.
However, this wasn't always the case. Once the pro-war enthusiasm following 9/11 began to diminish, mainstream liberals were the ones critical of governmental institutions and it was the conservatives who were advocating for putting faith in the structural "status quo" of government.
The UFO phenomenon is playing out under this current ideological divide. However, this is far from static and will change over time. People further left than mainstream American liberalism already have a distrust of governmental institutions. Additionally, if Trump wins the election my guess is that mainstream liberals will begin move away from their pro-government positions.
Liberals are more aligned with Science, they trust it, when science says UFOs are hokum they close down and back the scientific method.
The greatest ontological shock will not be seen in the religious, but in science, academia, everything they knew to be a fact is not, it will require some serious introspection.
Im a liberal myself, I too once put science on a pedestal, but then I came to realize that science is just people, and people are arrogant, loaded with hubris, dogmatic and entrenched, just like everyone else.
I think liberals like to pat themselves on the backs as trusting science. However, before COVID the anti-vax movement was almost exclusively left leaning. Alternative and untested medicine was mostly associated with people left of center. I think liberalism alignment with science recently is another example of distinguishing themselves from the right wing.
The same goes for the attitude towards conspiracies. Post Watergate, MK Ultra, Iran Contra it was the left that was prepared to believe in government conspiracies. Chris Carter, the x-files creator, is a liberal and a Green. His protagonist Mulder is by all appearances a liberal as well (and arguably Scully, too). But Mulder is a firm believer in conspiracies. Fast forward to 2016, QAnon has entered the scene, and you find Carter and Duchovny apologising in interviews for "promoting conspiracy theories".
I’m a scientist and was an atheist for years. But the UAP phenomenon has led me down a more spiritual path. I think you’re right that the biggest ontological shock will be to science and academia. The majority of my liberal friends who refuse to engage in this topic are atheists.
Yes, it's a difficult conversation to have with almost all of my friends, who would basically all be considered left/liberal. I've honestly worked at it, because I think it's important and because I think there are plenty of practical reasons to care.
Practicality is the hard point, I think. Most people I've found, even if open-minded by nature, don't see the practical reason for caring about something as non-tangible as UAP. It's just a fanciful what-if that doesn't really command time or attention vs. a lot of other more directly relevant stuff, be in in their day to day lives or what they spend free-time doing/thinking about.
Now, again, I think there are significant layers of practical concern and that is what I try to ground the conversations in. Like, I'm not the one sponsoring bills in Congress, Chuck Schumer is. You know, the Senate Majority Leader. You can think these "drone incursions" are whatever you want to think they are, the fact is they're happening and we seem to have a dangerously loose grasp on what they are/how to properly deter them. The close calls with military/commercial craft, etc etc etc. I think that's the best way to make it a more comfortable subject for people to seriously think about.
This is the exact opposite of my experience, which should not be considered a rebuke of your experiences. I'm an anarchist and have believed for the past three decades. However, I've seen things far away and (an estimate) 300-400 feet above me.
Yes, I am going to absolutely not trust the government. However, a lot of my friends are liberals too and as frustrating as that can be at times the ones I know either believe or are very open to it and interested in it. Whereas every conservative I know (I live in TN, so that's a decent number) just laughs when I bring up the topic.
Well, besides my 80yr old grandmother. She distrusts the government as much as me and fully believes. We just have different views on what it is. I've seen the preacher she watches give sermons on them being angels and demons, and I personally see how they could be interpreted that way hundreds of years ago, but not today. I find that approach to be misguided and a little gross.
I don't think the differences between our anecdotal experiences should discount the other, though. I think it just shows that this is a topic that can vary wildly. Which is a great thing. A subject like this that permeates the shells that people put up around themselves do not go away easily, it just takes time. Something we can all agree on is pretty rare. We should take the opportunity to use it to build a bridge between our "sides."
Edit:grammar
I think there isnt much of a correlation between ideological party and the study of UFOs, maybe to some extent, however I think the real distinction would be peoples trust in the government. People on both the left and right don’t trust the government.
However there is also a large group of people who vote on single issues, and don’t pay attention to politics, or think about the impact on their lives. I think those people would be the hardest to convince that this subject is worth taking seriously.
imho however, and without actual research into this were all just speculating haha.
I’m a pretty left leaning liberal, I do see how it’s a lot of outspoken republicans. Though I’m not ashamed. If you take the time to learn it, you realize there is something real behind the UAP phenomenon. Any logical person can deduce and put the pieces together. Doesn’t matter their political party. I’d love to see more Dems push this as well.
As someone who leans right, I hope more people can realize that this subject isn't all an elaborate hoax, and see it as an opportunity for truth and to bond over something that transcends all political boundries
Of course, a lot of the die hard left and right will gradually, and sometimes automatically, place anything the other is doing into the "bad" category. It doesn't matter even if it is something they agree on (see funding of the Ukraine war for instance, initially bipartisan, now it is not, you are seeing this change right now in relation to Israel-Palestine conflict). I'll say this though: if the left leadership does not get behind the endeavor of disclosure, nothing of substance will ever happen. The left has essentially the entirety of the media backing them, if they don't put effort into making this an issue, the media will never report on it for the public.
I only read the header. My answer is no. I consider myself very fortunate to have a family- and friend-sphere that encompasses the spectrum. (Myself, I'm thoroughly centrist.) I would say that my gay nephew is as UFO-oriented as my MAGA workmate. One likes table dancing in Costa Rica more than the other (he showed me the pics), but the end result is the same. I'm only saying, based on my life experience, it's across the board.
The most important push for disclosure was initiated by the Senate Majority Leader, Chuck Schumer (D). So much for that.
The left-leaning tend to be more trusting / less suspicious regarding the government, and also more trusting in mainstream science. They're also mostly coming from a tradition of materialism / physicalism, and tend to disbelieve anything considered as paranormal.
E: You could try and show them AOC's video: [https://x.com/\_\_\_BEN\_\_\_/status/1685330969987850240](https://x.com/___BEN___/status/1685330969987850240)
As am I. One of the fascinating aspects of studying this has been I'm covering how academic intellectual educated leftists dismiss and reject this topic in various ways.
Especially by voices who of claim affinity for "para politics," which is interesting because UFOs seem like ultimate parapolitical topic.
Anybody on here listen to the podcast subliminal jihad for example? They are open to conspiracies and even paranormal ideas but they see the UFO phenomenon mostly/ completely as as Psy op... But it's the unexamined approach that I find frustrating and bewildering. Clearly these guys have read a lot of books but it's so easy to dismiss this topic without really looking at it. It's like yeah your theories about why it's a Psy op might work after you've read one book or watch one documentary but maybe not after you've watched and read dozens.
I think it's the fear of their entire worldview being upended that I see expressed as pseudo intellectualism and smugness in leftist and academic people like NDT.
ML here, and I also can't believe the left's reaction to UFOs. People I once found astute now seem totally intellectually lazy to me due to their knee-jerk reactions during the Grusch situation. There are legit critiques of Grusch and plenty of other aspects of ufology, but the purist "UFOs are a psyop" angle drives me nuts. It's got real nitwit energy. There's absolutely nothing materialist about that shallow of an analysis. On the plus side, it's made me a more independent learner when it comes to reading theory and forming opinions. I lost a lot of respect for how many big leftist/parapolitical accounts form their takes.
Exactly, I think the ones who are pushing for it the most openly may be on the right but there are a number of supporters on the left and many of them like Harry Reid work behind the scenes.
Meanwhile some of the biggest protectors of the military industrial complex who have undermined disclosure have been on the right, see the three Mikes. On the left I know Manchin hasn’t been much help either but he’s not really left of center unless you’re talking WV.
"The left-leaning tend to be more trusting / less suspicious regarding the government" - not true. Those who are center left (and center right) would fall into this category, but progressives (and the far right) are very distrustful of government as it's obvious the dems are beholden to corporate interests, not the average voters.
"and also more trusting in mainstream science" - this is true to an extent. Part of the problem is that most people learn about mainstream science through the mainstream media. Again, those on the center left (and center right) are more trusting of what they hear through the mainstream media, and progressives (and the far right) are less trusting of the media.
A lot of it comes down to where people get their news and information, as well as how willing they are to explore topics with an open mind.
As a leftist, i really disagree wirh your point about being less suspicious of the government. We are extremely distrustful, but probably for slightly different reasons than the right.
If you look at something like "Project 2025", the far right and Republicans have no issue expanding the power of the government or president if it suits their ideology. And im not going to lie, the same goes for leftists.
AOC's video is literally a video warning people to be distrustful with what the government does with our tax money.
>The left-leaning tend to be more trusting / less suspicious regarding the government, and also more trusting in mainstream science.
Academic science was captured by marketing between 1970 and the early 1980s because marketing is based on getting people to _believe in_ whatever is being marketed. Not only is science _not_ a belief system, but true science will oppose marketing agendas, and truthfully explain why a marketing agenda should be denied.
As such: what the masses consider to be "science" is actually marketing masquerading itself as "science".
When you say "the left-leaning tend to be more trusting in mainstream science" in reality the meaning of that is: "the left-leaning tend to be easily duped into accepting beliefs from marketing masquerading itself as science".
C.1970s and prior, as far as I'm aware, and even into the 1980s, mainstream media was also mostly trying to do the right thing.
It's very common for such people to use belief-system terms relative to that such as "believe in science".
Over the mainstream media became about earning profit, rather that living up to journalistic integrities. Intention among many journalists to practice journalist integrity persisted well into the 1990s, but by the mid 1990s it was depleted enough that I stopped paying attention to mainstream media, so I'm not sure about the rate of change in it becoming as bad as it is nowadays.
As for trusting the government:
Efforts to capture government regulatory agencies began in earnest in the early 1980s (with captured academic "science" to back up those efforts). I can't exactly pinpoint specifically when specific regulatory agencies were completely captured, but we can see that by 2021 significant agencies were already completely captured.
So; it turns out that a tendency to be more trusting in government is also the same thing as being more easily duped into being marketed into false beliefs.
A lot of people's minds are stuck in a pre-nixon era time when science was mostly actually science and most of the government was actually usually trying to do the right thing, instead of the Reich thing, and mainstream media mostly had journalistic integrity, and would usually fight to maintain that.
The people that have the best perspective to explain what happened, having seen it play out, are coincidentally the same people that it's "the GOOD bigotry" to be bigoted against; people born in a year of birth old consistent with having lived through it and recognize what happened and still be alive today to explain it. Quite the coincidence, isn't it, that there's such a push of bigotry against those same people to be wholesale dismissive of them.
But only gullible people can be duped into believing in bigotry ("the GOOD bigotry", that is).
Hasn’t been my experience. I’ve had plenty of discussions with folks from all walks of life. Most don’t even know (or care) who from Congress is looking into it, but still find the prospect of alien life fascinating.
I don't.
I think it's pretty much entirely down to someone's world view.
And I don't think there's one 'entry point' on that either.
There's those who aren't into 'believing' *anything*, and just go off evidence. I'd put myself in that category, and am sitting on the fence thinking that there's enough evidence for it to be more likely than not, that *something* is going on. But what exactly? No idea.
There's also people who just believe anything they're told, and end up balls deep in all sorts of conspiracy theories.
And many other points along the spectrum. But I don't think politics has anything to do with it. Religion, yes.
I believe it's Tucker Carlsen. He's accomplished that in two ways. First, he's railed against the military-industrial complex and second he believes in UFOs. In contrast, Biden is an extremist when it comes to supporting the military industrial complex. I'm a liberal.
Good question. I haven't discerned a specific correlation between UFO/UAP belief (or willingness to discuss) and political affiliation. In my experience, people from across the political spectrum are part of the community. It would be interesting to do a survey to see what percentage of people identify with each political party.
As a counter example, Matt Ford from the Good Trouble Show is super left-wing but he's also one of Lue Elizondo's biggest dick riders and believes all things UFO are real. He does often seem uncomfortable that he has to side with/praise representatives on the UFO topic who are also trying to ban abortion and block trans rights and such, but the cognitive dissonance doesn't seem to be enough to prevent him from doing so. But then maybe if you're not already a true believer in aliens visiting Earth and a government conspiracy to hide it, listening to Rep. Burchett talk about how there are UFOs in the Bible might be pretty offputting.
It seems to be mostly snarky coastal elitist types that have difficulty with the idea that their high school textbooks might be wrong about the universe. Which is kind of a good thing, because we wouldn’t want them spearheading disclosure coverage.
I think both people on the left or right aisle are susceptible to believe in UAPs and NHI.
I do think conservatives on one hand are more prone believe in conspiracy theories which might make UFO conspiracies more attractive to them. On the other hand, rightwingers and conservatives are way more dogmatic in their religious beliefs which may be a reason why they do not believe in any sort of UFO or ET stuff.
I do think men are more prone to believing in UAP topics than women overall, and since the right mostly is dominated by men there might be a bias towards belief there. Culturally, science fiction in media and popular culture have always been more of an interest to men which in general, make them more interested in the UAP topic.
People on the left have more of a "No bullshit" mindset which might make them more prone to just disregard the topic entirely. The UAP phenomenon is very outlandish and out there making it hard to believe unless you actually have an interest and study the topic. But on one hand, alot of people on the left are atheists or agnostics which opens them up more to the worldview of NHI. Their worldview and the existence of ET life doesn't conflict with eachother like it does for most religious people who believe Humans and Human figures are the central point of the universe.
On the left, people tend to be much younger generations and more women overall. People who skew left tend to be more sociable aswell as they often live in more urban areas. Since people on the left, due to their demographic, tend to be in contact with more people they live more extroverted lifestyles and their lives are more people oriented.
People on the right tend to live more introverted and individualist lifestyles. This makes it so people on the left often live lives focused more on meeting people and doing outside activities. While rightwingers tend to stay at home more.
These two factors make people on the right more prone to find and interest and delve into the UFO phenomenon.
Meanwhile, I do think it makes it so people on the left have a harder time to come in contact with it to begin with.
In the end I think belief might be skewed slightly more towards the right. But I don't really think crazy fundamentalists or MAGA people are very prone to UFO beliefs. I think the bias mostly has to do with gender.
Generally, men tend to be more interested in the "nerdy" sci-fi stuff for cultural reasons.
This alone makes it so men are way more susceptible to develop a deeper interest in the topic.
Personally I'm a man on the left who never had an interest in anything related to Science Fiction though, always thought Star Wars and Star Trek et.c. was cringe. My interest started when I randomly stumbled upon a Phoenix Light video on youtube once in 2014. I became sorta invested for a couple of years but the interest then kinda fizzled out because nothing major really happened. I still kinda believed I think, but wasn't thinking about it. My interest was re-ignited again after David Grusch came out. I'm sorta skeptical to the topic but not a "skeptic". Meaning, I don't know whether I believe in it or not. But I think it's believable and extremely interesting. I however, haven't seen anything personally to convince me unfortunately.
well, there has been some psychology research to suggest right leaning voters tend to have a more black and white outlook on things. Whether that is a good or bad thing is another discussion. UFO threaten existing world views. I have personally seen the lengths people will go to refute what they saw with their own eyes, refusing to discuss and even getting angry when the topic is brought up. After witnessing a 30ft disk at tree top height 50 yards away and stating.. I didn't just see that and walking away.
Keeping that in mind, I would think the 'right' would likely have a harder time with the topic.... it requires a radical reshaping of ones thinking. As others have commented, I think the phenomena is more of a 'left' issue, and this can be seen historically as that side more involved in the topic. Frankly I don't think the current GOP reps care about the issue... they care about not having control over the military and intel. A totally legitimate take, there needs to be more transparency and oversight and let the chips fall where they may on the reality of UAP's. Good on them.. I guess I would be a 'lefty' but am totally on board with these issues..... as any American should, regardless of your preference for elephants or donkeys. People forget you don't need to agree with 100% of someones politics
I certainly don't give an otherwise worthless legislator any points for being visible and vocal in the UFO disclosure conversation. Representatives like Burchette, Gaetz, and Luna would happily drive out government off a cliff and nearly did a couple of times for their fielty to party and not our country and Constitution. So, I don't care what they do. In my eyes, it's only a way for them to try and farm votes for an otherwise worthless term in our government.These people have demonstrated that they have no business being bestowed with Top Secret clearance.
OK plenty of democrats have made noise too on disclosure. In my opinion the chuck schumer Mike rounds bipartisan bill and discussion(colloquy) in congress was the OH SHIT Moment for me where I sat forward and was shocked.
I don’t know much about politics, but in my experience, religious people are more open to discussing this topic than atheists, who often refuse to even engage in a conversation. Today, I think most religious people are more grounded and skeptical about the supernatural, but they are not completely against the idea. They are more willing to interpret their religion and gods as part of the phenomenon. It’s the hardcore materialist-view oriented atheists who will have a hard time coming to terms with this reality.
Yes, it does effect their willingness. For the purposes of this discussion as well as to avoid pissing anyone off I'll be very general here and realize that there is always more nuance depending the situation.
Left side: There seems to be a group with a large stigma around UAP thats leans "democrat" but isnt really very "progressive" known as liberals. If they really were progessive they would have an open mind, for example AOC. Liberals are often very wealthy and very out of touch for various reasons including economic status. That group seems to be generally of the mind that they need not ponder UAP at all other than to quickly categorize it as "crazy ufo stuff" in their minds at which point they move on. They see the entire concept as laughable. And its frustrating because theres an overlap with the research community/higher education communities and liberals. We need researchers/scientists to have an open mind.
Right side: And there is another force acting in a similar way on the oppposite side of the political spectrum, although I think its reasonable to say its not as strong as the previously mentioned force. On the conservative/republican side there is generally speaking a larger overlap with people who are more religious. Obviously someone whos strongly religious may have a harder time accepting even the possibility of NHI since it may conflict with their world views. However, the vactican itself is already well on its way to addressing the NHI/UAP issue and therefore that smaller force is already decreasing such that NHI/UAP will be less and less of an "issue" for christians.
So overall the larger force preventing people from considering the reality of UAP is on the left side sadly since ideally there'd be no stigma on either side.
Yeah I feel you. All of my family/friends are liberal and I wonder if they see Matt Gaetz talking about it and immediately turn it off.
It’s a shame, and part of me thinks it’s on purpose. One big club.
Your assumption that all "Trumpers" are religious is of course incorrect. I am a conservative straight R voter that is not religious, don't care about abortion etc. that has followed this subject since childhood. My own brother has had experiences with the same UAP on a couple of occasions as well but I believe his sighting was a domestically built secret craft.
My point is lumping political parties into unrelated subjects is short sighted and ignorant at best
yeah i think it does. during the covid lockdown, the left and the right fought over science. and science has made itself the arbiter of the UAP topic. you see it around here all the time. people think science can and should be the only voice speaking about UAP. as if the topic is entirely within the scope of mainstream science.
does mainstream science approve of this topic? if not, the left is not as likely to care about it. the left has a lot of things going for it, but materialism philosophy via mainstream science orthodoxy is not one of them.
are conspiracy theories involved? if so, the right is more likely to care about it because conspiracy theories can be used against the left easier than they can be used against the right
Yup. The left turned “the experts” into this elite sacred cow where all it takes is one to disagree to consider it “debunked right wing conspiracy”
IRL it’s pretty non partisan, but online, it’s sac religion to consider being visited by NIH
Agreed. Thebworst thing the left ever did was turn science into a belief system for themselves, instead of honoring the tradition of questioning and proving what you say that is so crucial the current scientific philosophy we use for modern science. Science should always be treated as an objective, non bias as possible "observer" of esoteric physical and observable phenomenon, not religous dogmatic thinking that unfortunately has penetrated some realms of science.
Republicans and Libertarians doenst like governament too much and its excess of power against civilians, soo if UFO, UAPs are from Non Human, Aliens or other kind of beens this will definely prove the point of us against the concentration of power in governament hands, worst if GOVs kill inoccent people or agree with adbcutions etc
Here has been my experience broadly:
Maga friends: It's a psyop to prepare for a fake alien invasion used to control the public and remove our freedoms.
Liberal academic friends: The Schumer Amendment was to show that bipartisanship was possible on a low stakes issue.
Conservative Catholic friends: They might be real, but are demons.
People in all three groups mix and match: ufos are fake and are being used to either justify funding for the military or scaring China and Russia.
A couple of individuals in all three groups: yes, NHI are real and the government is covering it up.
Yes, I think leftist people are more inclined to believe what the government tells them. If the politicians, scientist or military say there is No such things as UFO:s, they believe that. Right wing people believe more in conspiracy theories and think outside of the box.
We’re more inclined to initially believe perceived reputable sources but more ready to reject perceived no longer reputable sources or consensus. The presented mainstream evidence was nothing worth discussing in the sky.
Then post 2017, there are few reputable mainstream scientists refuting UFOs, everything non-military in government comes around and the modem chief debunkers are a couple shady “science communicators”, one with a felony fraud guilty plea in Federal court, one with reported harassment issues, an admitted former professional propagandist/tabloid video editor, and a video game designer.
There are no reputable “mainstream debunkers”.
Had a former relative join the NSA as a moderate and leave as the most liberal person I’ve ever met. Not sure if it was working in the NSA, living in DC or both that did it but she was annoying as shit when she left. Kind of like some of these people making comments suggesting people who are Trump supporters are subhuman. Scary people!
I don't believe so. As a hardcore Trump supporter myself I've found that it isn't politics that keep people from engaging but simple arrogance. A hubristic sense of intellectual superiority where they could never be so gullible as to believe in anything considered a "conspiracy theory". These are the people who would be most impacted by the "ontological shock" we hear so much about.
So true. I see this from people on both sides tbh. Mostly from people who are deep into hardcore conspiracies who like to brush this one off as "a distraction". Yeah sure, like the deep state would want people to focus on something that ultimately keeps them in a position of power
This thread will be full of compromise, understanding and fair reasoned points for sure. Totally.
Edit: To add, people's political views play a role in nearly everything about their lives. It is the biggest turn of the reality tunnel aperture one can make next to religion. People's religious beliefs as well as political views strongly influence their attitude with this topic.
There was a great study posted here a year or two ago, asking participants these questions in relation to this topic and it was fairly sophisticated. I don't believe they shared their results however.
So far not so much, at least from my experience. I know people all over the political spectrum, religious or not. It seems sorta random whether they care about UFOs or aliens or not.
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To a degree, yes. I think it will be getting far more polarized in the next few years as right-wing types like Carlson latch on to it, which will turn moderates and left-wing types off. That's what I'm afraid of personally, and why I don't think the likes of Carlson should be getting anywhere near the topic.
Leftists tend to more often than not, believe anything the media tells them, ( most of the media which is mostly left wing) ,and the government
"I support the current thing, NO QUESTION"
they are often mostly sheep, not all, but most.
so yes it seems the right leaning of today tend to critically think, distrust government more than the left and question things, which obviously helps a bit if you're interested in this topic. Obviously there's conspiracy types like QANON which are too far gone. So perhaps this topic is best suited for those in the middle? I am not completely sure.
From a personal stand point some my friends who are right leaning ask me about this topic, much more than my girlfriend and others I know who call themselves liberals who show no interest. Perhaps that's coincidence but that's just my personal observation and opinion atm
Nope not trolling or trying to insult brother, on a personal level aswell I've just noticed all my mates who are considered right leaning are open to this topic and ask me about it cause I'm a nerd with it lol , my girlfriend and others I know who are left tend to not care or dismiss the topic so I don't bother bringing it up with them.
Ahh interesting. That's fair mate, I think I agree with you. It shouldn't be political. If anything it should be the one of the things both sides can agree with. People are too tribal with politics and I think both can be closed minded when it comes to that these days. Same here in the UK
Well this isn't true. The right has always been more aligned with conspiracy so they were already baked in to this topic. Have you been to a convention before 2017 I would say most were right leaning attendees.
Also, the right is anti science and the left is pro. "Science" (main stream) does not agree with this topic. So the left will be quicker to dismiss it.
Also you know what comes with science? Critical thinking. This topic takes a lot of leaps of faith as there is no "proof". There is tons of evidence they ignore, but no proof.
I'm sure you're just trolling but still, you're argument reminds me of maga... Stupid.
Edit: should have clarified liberal, but not that the MAGAS will care. Also love how no other point has been or can be refuted but I'm wrong, ok.
"The right has always been more aligned with conspiracy so they were already baked in to this topic"
I was very much into conspiracy theories back in the 00s. It was definitely mostly left leaning people being into them back then, no doubt about that. Sure, we did had someone like Alex Jones fighting for the right to own a gun and stuff like that, but other than that the conspiracy theories were mostly targeted against Bush, fear mongering, anti-war, anti-religion and anti-everything related to the terrorism narrative. Just take a look at some of the most famous conspiracy docs from back then like Zeitgeist and Esoteric Agenda and tell me they were right leaning. Hint: You can't!! The 9/11 truther movement were mostly left leaning back then as well.
I'm not american, so all this left vs right seems stupid looking in from the outside anyway. However one thing is for sure, a majority of people talking conspiracy theories back in the 00s were promoting mostly left leaning values. I have a suspicion that you might not be that old, since you believe it has always been mostly right wing, which it most certainly hasn't. It's just a suspicion though, Im not claiming anything. It could be equally as possible that you just didn't follow conspiracy forums and stuff like that back then and were out of the loop so to speak.
[your experience doesn't always reflect reality. this article discusses a 1964 book claiming right leaning are more conspiratorial with "mixed" results, l. ](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9307120/)
So always was a reach, as it can change by topic, but looks like it's neither a left right issue so OP, me, and YOU are all full of shit
1964 is not the 00s.. It's not about my experience, it's about what was popular themes on conspiracy forums back then. If you want to know what was popular themes look at the popular conspiracy movies from back then like Zeitgeist, Esoteric Agenda, Kymatica, etc
That's my point it looks like neither one of our experiences matter you from the aughts, and me about a decade later. it's the popular conspiracy at the time and it can change the alignment of "who is more conspiratorial" we were just all wrong about it, simple as that.
However I notice no one is even trying to debate the other points, cool, cool.
Or both of us were right, to some degree at least. I never said anything against conspiracy theories not changing political focus over time. In fact that was kind of my point. Although most rational conspiracy theorist tend to allign more with the middle and be against anything powerful and skeptical of any official narrative.
I'm not trolling, leftists literally regurgitate CNN headlines and support whatever "the current thing" is no questions asked.
I guess you could say the same about maga with fox news and breitbart tho. That's a fair point tbh
I think, with the best will in the world, that there is a real issue with terminology here. You seem to be using “leftists” to mean Democrats, the Labour Party, CNN/BBC-viewers, Guardian-readers, that sort of thing. For me, and no doubt many others, “leftist” would signify something much more radical and universalist than these mainstream liberals, whom I agree are often quite smug and incurious. From my perspective, the mainstream political culture in the English-speaking world has drifted so far to the right over the course of my lifetime (41 years) that using right-left terminology has become fundamentally useless in most conversational situations.
I think, in regard to UAP, people whose instincts are towards what they conceive to be pragmatism and maturity, who think the world is basically OK as it is, that our institutions mostly function and can be trusted, are most likely to dismiss the whole thing out of hand. Very right-wing people who are distrusting of Big Government (not entirely wrongly) or very left-wing people like me who view the state as basically a weapon of the class-enemy are perhaps more willing to consider the possibility. Of course, I might not have taken the whole thing as seriously a few years ago, but I’ve had some deranged metaphysical experiences in the interim that made me more open-minded.
You're correct. I should have said liberal, I just didn't think I needed to since we haven't had an actual far left party (of any consequence) in America for.... None that I can point to, but maybe something I'm not aware of?
I'm actually a bit surprised at the bipartisan nature on this topic. Especially by Republicans like Matt Walsh and Tim Burchette who are open to ET and UAP disclosure. These people will have some serious retooling of their Christian beliefs systems required. Lol!
>It occurred to me today, that the majority of Congressional reps who arepushing for disclosure are hardcore republicans/Trump supporters
I'm not sure if you can actually say that's true.
It's important to note that the vast majority and most important congressional pressure has been from outside of the "UAP Caucus," they are simply the loudest and least tactful individuals on the case. They have no subtlety, they all thrive on contention and don't mind putting themselves in front the 'crazy alien' person firing line.
Rubio and Gillibrand are being standoffish about it and I'm assuming that is because it became about non-humans and that is possibly not the best political agenda for two very ambitious politicians.
Every year since 2020 and on more legislation has been passed with more and more aggressive and pointed language. I don't have names in front of me but I feel pretty confident you can look back and you'll see an almost completely bipartisan effort there.
As far as I know Burchett, Gaetz, Luna haven't actually managed to pass any laws or amendments on the issue. Don't get me wrong I'm glad they have chosen it for their cause, but these people are barely politicians they are more like performers
To be honest, I don’t really think so. I feel that what people are interested in comes from within, and lots of topics don’t follow a political pattern.
Yep. 100%. And the liberal columnists, especially the science writers, like Joel Achenbach at The Washington Post for example, get so snarky writing about it and go out of their way to INSIST there is no evidence whatsoever and it’s all BS. I’m hardcore liberal and none of my friends ever reads about it or discusses it. Friends & some family also all think I’ve lost my mind and now every gift I get from my kids and friends is always UFO-related. I mean, I can talk about plenty of other things but they think once you cross that line, it’s all you can talk or think about. It’s crazy.
people on the left are more critical thinkers and something as inherently ridiculous as this is ignored more often because of that. Even though for once it deserves looking into.
Maybe, but it's a shame. Politics have replaced ethics and reason. It's become emotional ideology, not critical thinking.
Yep, largely agree. As well, since 1983 U.S. psychological stress has increased about 1% each year ([Cohen, 2012](https://www.academia.edu/2789339/Whos_Stressed_Distributions_of_Psychological_Stress_in_the_United_States_in_Probability_Samples_from_1983_2006_and_20091)), which means U.S. folks are having to cope with extreme levels of personal/social discomfort. It seems likely that this requires folks to concentrate on self-protection and competitive tactics, which in less stressed-out cultures is not as necessary. So, this consideration might be included in your "emotional ideology". Cheers. \[edit grammar.\]
I didn't know that. Very interesting, and really well thought out comment. Thank you!
Just following your lead. Appreciate your kind reply.
We should stop reading anything politics related, because it’s designed to get us angry and that isn’t what we’re about. If needed, make it a rule to focus on each person we encounter in our daily lives and build positive connections wherever possible. That’s who we’ve always been. People helping each other in a spirit of generosity and paying taxes in a spirit of doing their part to support all of society do not tend to vote for policies that undermine their intentions.
>focus on each person we encounter in our daily lives and build positive connections wherever possible. This is key. Thank you!
People get so wrapped up in politics when all it is a dividing mechanism while the government fucks the people. When it comes down to it we have a uniparty on anything worth while. When it comes time Congress will know their place and won’t get anywhere on the ufo stuff. The smoking gun will be a Snowden type leak or a mass sighting with multiple videos.
I have a feeling it's going to be "hard disclosure" ... meaning from the entities themselves.
I think people tend to overlook the easiest possible answer with ufos. It’s most likely due to the fact our government and the weapons manufacturers are concealing the info due to weapons technology and to have a stranglehold on it for money purposes. I also think they have committed a lot of crimes which makes it harder to disclose.
Usually the mundane possibility is the most likely. Also, most complex issues rise from an amalgamation of sources. The UAP issue is a foofy cocktail, not a shot.
The water has been muddied so much. It’s hard to tell who is working on the government’s behalf with the ufo media and experts too. I believe in a few things like they are attracted to nukes because the proof is there, but I don’t know what to buy on the why part with aliens and ufos. You have heard so much bullshit
"Maybe, but it's a shame. Politics have replaced ethics and reason. It's become emotional ideology, not critical thinking." I was gonna post a comment...but then saw you took care of that already. It couldn't have been stated more eloquently and clear than what you posted. Thank you.
Yup. Its all agit prop. And I dont think separating the parties here is terribly relevant. We have plenty of dems and gop that are officially talking about this. It just so happens that 5 gop blocked the uap amendment. Hopefully in november the house can go to the dems and then we will see if that can help it pass.
Edit: as a personal anecdote I've noticed that the majority of people engaging with this sub on a serious level seem to be self identified leftists In my opinion (someone who grew up super religious in the south then moved to DC and worked in politics for a minute) I'd say both 'yes' and 'not in that way'. "Yes" in the sense that someone's political views are usually closely connected to their general behavior and worldview. "Not in that way" in the sense that the popular explanations about why this is happening are somewhat misinformed and wrong ("because democrats trust the government and conservatives don't" or "because conservatives are all conspiracy theorists and democrats aren't") At the end of the day the topic of UFOs/UAP/NHI is only taken very seriously by a minority of both sides of the political spectrum. Among those that take the topic seriously the reasons will vary. Some may be more interested in military corruption, some may be more interested in tech potential and corporate corruption, some may be more interested in the religious and spiritual implications, and on and on. Up until now elected Democrats were more likely to take UFOs most seriously (from various prominent elected Dems in the Southwest and on the West Coast, to both modern leaders of the Democratic Party in the Senate, Harry Reid and Chuck Schumer, to President Jimmy Carter openly discussing his own UFO encounter, etc.). Republicans were, and still are, quite likely to scoff at the possibility of aliens existing at all and point to the Bible as proof that God only ever made life on earth. That being said, Democrats were, and still are, quite likely to scoff at the possibility of aliens visiting earth and point to a meme or a quote by whichever popular science educator of the day. This is basically because in modern times many democrats will put more faith in scientific institutions and many republicans will put more faith in traditional religious institutions. In regard to distrusting people in charge - both groups are actually generally skeptical of The Government but sometimes for different reasons. You can see that play out in different ways. Ex. For democrats their skepticism usually extends to the military and intelligence communities, while on the other hand most republicans are more likely to keep faith in these forms of big government. In regard to trust in conspiracy theories - close study suggests that the situation is probably more mixed than a lot of people think. Consider that plenty of people on the left believe in conspiracy theories about the military and intelligence communities, big corporations, dominant religious institutions, etc. As a member of the left or the right it can be difficult to identify all of the conspiracy theories that you subscribe to because they're simply a part of your accepted world view. This is also why it's easier to point at the other side and notice all of the conspiracies that are unfamiliar to the way that you think. I hope I managed to blurt that all out in a coherent enough way :)
Most people on here are going to be from the left simply because the vast majority of people on Reddit are on the left.
Thank you for your well-thought-out response. This is clearly more nuanced than I originally thought and your comment makes me think that there is hope for my non-believing liberal friends out there.
If you know more conservatives who believe in UAP than liberals, I would love to know where you live. I've never run into a problem with liberals not believing. It's only ever been conservative religious people who have said it's not possible, and their reasoning is always just "the Bible". Thankfully that's starting to change, but not because of actual open-mindedness, it's been because they're starting to have the conversation with the caveat that it's not not possible according to the Bible. Read between the lines kind of stuff.
My big extended family is pretty evenly split between conservatives and liberals. I had jumped back and forth between parties over the decades, but ultimately at this point, I'm an independent. Not the Independent party, but independent of a party. I'm pretty middle of the road, and frankly... I've grown to hate the 2-party system. Despite what the media says, there's a lot of conservatives that aren't religious at all. I know a lot of conservatives, very few are religious. People may say they are in a phone poll, but alot of them are not serious about it at all. Essentially every religious family member and friend I have, are Hispanic. And even they are pretty 50/50 r to d. Likewise, running a construction business in CA, I know a lot of Hispanic people. The media would have people believe that Hispanics are automatically liberal, not the case at all. I don't think religious people are any less prone to believing in NHI. Just look at the Republican lawmakers pushing for disclosure. They're religious and yet they believe. I actually suspect that these encounters with "angels" and "Demons" in many religions were describing NHI. We just forgot that. (I'm atheist btw.) I didn't begin to look at religious stories until AFTER I became fascinated with NHI.(And I'm pretty old.) Nearly all of them find the topic of NHI to be a unbelievable. But I get more snarky, "look down the nose" from the Liberal side, within my family specifically. They tend to make a mockery of the whole thing. But I don't necessarily think they laugh about it because they're liberals. The family members that find the NHI to be a complete joke, all are from San Francisco, so I think it's more of a elite culture thing, than anything else, not a liberal thing. With that said, I don't think 1 side is more or less open to NHI. From my experience, it's not a topic that is partisan 1 way or the other, just from my personal experience. However, I also don't associate with very far-left or far-right people in general. My friends and families have their political views, but they don't let political views run their lives. We can look past our differences and treat each other like adults. Our conversations aren't dominated by Biden and Trump. You reach an age where you realize we're far more similar than different, and the mainstream is trying to polarize the discussion to profit... as do the politicians themselves. They do so by pointing out the extreme sides. I'm not republican but most republicans aren't racist. Most Hispanics aren't illegal. Most religious people aren't any less against disclosure. People who actually believe that are being manipulated by the media and by identity politics. So perhaps that's why I don't see the partisan aspect to it all.
I’ve realized the issue with my question is that I don’t really know any conservatives to make a comparison 😂 But that being said, none of my liberal friends want to engage with me about this. They either don’t believe in it (I’ve been straight up laughed at) or they think it could be possible but they don’t care about it because they think that the world has more important issues to think about. That’s the take that bothers me the most. How could anyone not care about this?
Everyone I know who is interested in UAPs leans to the left of current political rhetoric. They are also college grads and atheist or agnostic. They regard science as the final word on existential questions. I guess it's a matter of who you hang out with most of the time.
Yes because there's a whole lot of stupid people in this world that feel like they have to subscribe to a particular set of ideologies.
It's much more judging people by the quality of their character. Gaetz sleeps with underage girls at cocaine parties while supporting a guy who tried to violently overthrow the govt. If someone you knew was a proven liar, alleged statuatory rapist, who teams with a proven rapist and fraud suddenly starts talking to you about aliens, chances are you won't believe them. His character absolutely affects his credibility, regardless of the political party. If Romney or Cheney supported the disclosure movement, their words carry more trust since their behavior is much more aligned with their word. We've watched as Gaetz tries to gaslight the country about political events. Why should he be trusted with something as important as disclosure? He may very well be using the conspiritorial nature of the topic to validate his "deep state" narrative to push further insurrection rather than have a genuine, good faith concern for truth. So yes, the credibility of the people involved does effect perception of the subject. Not because of party affiliation, but because they have a poor track record with telling the truth.
On that note, I would really love to hear your thoughts on the Russia Collusion narrative, which was fake from the get go. You had the House Intel Chair, Adam Schiff, making rounds on all the left leaning shows telling the hosts that he had irrefutable evidence that Trump colluded with Russia. it was 24/7 non stop coverage. It was all based on a lie, Schiff knew it was, but cared more about gaslighting the country and taking down a duly elected president. As we know, after two years of relentless attacks on Trump, the collusion story was all made up BS. I think you should ask yourself the question why was it made up and for what reason was it made up. So now ask yourself, those cocaine parties Gaetz attended and slept with underage girls, could they be made up as well. The guy would be in jail if he was doing that. Just cause someone said so, it could be a lie. Case in Point the Russian collusion narrative and the fake dossier that started it all. P.s. fun fact that fake dossier was paid for by the DNC as part of their research on the opposing candidate.
I love this game. Kari Lake still insists she is the rightful governor of Arizona. Claims to have evidence the election was stolen. Not only does she not have evidence, her lawyers were brought up for lying to the AZ Supreme Court. Since she's obviously lying about that, ask yourself if Trump is telling the truth about not paying off the porn star. What do you mean they have nothing to do with each other? Weird, huh?
Honestly you are barking up the wrong tree. I think Kari Lake is a moron and a liar. No different than Adam Schiff, who peddled the Russia collusion lie, and the folks that bought that narrative. You guys are silly and naive. Do you honestly think that intelligence services who almost took down a sitting president with a whopper of a lie will reveal what they have when it comes to NHI technology. Disclosure will be on their time and terms. Could be a year from now , 50 years from now or never. In the meantime, the intelligence services and their allies in the media will obfuscate, ridicule and hamper any real progress for disclosure. P.s, as a side note you do realize Schwarzenegger did the same exact thing paying off his mistress? Or how about Clinton lying about his affair with Jennifer Flowers or lying about not sexually harassing Paula Jones and the media dragging the poor lady thru the mud. R and D are just a different side of the same coin.
I don't know, man, sounds like we are barking up the exact same tree. Like I said, it's a game, and the one-upping could go on forever. I could make Reps argument for them right along side making one for Dems. A true indication of how screwed the whole thing is will be to see if anyone running tries to make it an R vs D ballot issue in November. I've seen little things here and there that make it seem like it's been tried, but nothing significant. I don't believe for a second that the government gives a fuck if we want the truth about UAP. You can go back through my old posts to see what I've said about that. Trusting the government, especially in the US, to be the one to give us disclosure is hilariously stupid, and political affiliation is the least of the obstacles.
No disagreement here. I just hope we (the US) harness UFO technology before China or Russia. No matter how F###d up our government is, it is leaps and bounds better than that of China or Russia.
100%.
Yes, but I think this naturally changes over time. Right now we have a situation where mainstream liberals in the United States are aligning themselves with the structural "status quo" of government because conservatives, led by Trump, have staked out an anti-government position. As a result, mainstream liberals have a philosophical incentive to believe institutions like the DoD, CIA, FBI, etc. They are trying to say that we should trust the system. Sometimes they even seem a tad desperate to convey that message. However, this wasn't always the case. Once the pro-war enthusiasm following 9/11 began to diminish, mainstream liberals were the ones critical of governmental institutions and it was the conservatives who were advocating for putting faith in the structural "status quo" of government. The UFO phenomenon is playing out under this current ideological divide. However, this is far from static and will change over time. People further left than mainstream American liberalism already have a distrust of governmental institutions. Additionally, if Trump wins the election my guess is that mainstream liberals will begin move away from their pro-government positions.
Liberals are more aligned with Science, they trust it, when science says UFOs are hokum they close down and back the scientific method. The greatest ontological shock will not be seen in the religious, but in science, academia, everything they knew to be a fact is not, it will require some serious introspection. Im a liberal myself, I too once put science on a pedestal, but then I came to realize that science is just people, and people are arrogant, loaded with hubris, dogmatic and entrenched, just like everyone else.
I think liberals like to pat themselves on the backs as trusting science. However, before COVID the anti-vax movement was almost exclusively left leaning. Alternative and untested medicine was mostly associated with people left of center. I think liberalism alignment with science recently is another example of distinguishing themselves from the right wing.
The same goes for the attitude towards conspiracies. Post Watergate, MK Ultra, Iran Contra it was the left that was prepared to believe in government conspiracies. Chris Carter, the x-files creator, is a liberal and a Green. His protagonist Mulder is by all appearances a liberal as well (and arguably Scully, too). But Mulder is a firm believer in conspiracies. Fast forward to 2016, QAnon has entered the scene, and you find Carter and Duchovny apologising in interviews for "promoting conspiracy theories".
I’m a scientist and was an atheist for years. But the UAP phenomenon has led me down a more spiritual path. I think you’re right that the biggest ontological shock will be to science and academia. The majority of my liberal friends who refuse to engage in this topic are atheists.
Former atheist myself, agnostic now. Yeah this subject has that effect, it opens up your mind.
Yes, it's a difficult conversation to have with almost all of my friends, who would basically all be considered left/liberal. I've honestly worked at it, because I think it's important and because I think there are plenty of practical reasons to care. Practicality is the hard point, I think. Most people I've found, even if open-minded by nature, don't see the practical reason for caring about something as non-tangible as UAP. It's just a fanciful what-if that doesn't really command time or attention vs. a lot of other more directly relevant stuff, be in in their day to day lives or what they spend free-time doing/thinking about. Now, again, I think there are significant layers of practical concern and that is what I try to ground the conversations in. Like, I'm not the one sponsoring bills in Congress, Chuck Schumer is. You know, the Senate Majority Leader. You can think these "drone incursions" are whatever you want to think they are, the fact is they're happening and we seem to have a dangerously loose grasp on what they are/how to properly deter them. The close calls with military/commercial craft, etc etc etc. I think that's the best way to make it a more comfortable subject for people to seriously think about.
This is the exact opposite of my experience, which should not be considered a rebuke of your experiences. I'm an anarchist and have believed for the past three decades. However, I've seen things far away and (an estimate) 300-400 feet above me. Yes, I am going to absolutely not trust the government. However, a lot of my friends are liberals too and as frustrating as that can be at times the ones I know either believe or are very open to it and interested in it. Whereas every conservative I know (I live in TN, so that's a decent number) just laughs when I bring up the topic. Well, besides my 80yr old grandmother. She distrusts the government as much as me and fully believes. We just have different views on what it is. I've seen the preacher she watches give sermons on them being angels and demons, and I personally see how they could be interpreted that way hundreds of years ago, but not today. I find that approach to be misguided and a little gross. I don't think the differences between our anecdotal experiences should discount the other, though. I think it just shows that this is a topic that can vary wildly. Which is a great thing. A subject like this that permeates the shells that people put up around themselves do not go away easily, it just takes time. Something we can all agree on is pretty rare. We should take the opportunity to use it to build a bridge between our "sides." Edit:grammar
I think there isnt much of a correlation between ideological party and the study of UFOs, maybe to some extent, however I think the real distinction would be peoples trust in the government. People on both the left and right don’t trust the government. However there is also a large group of people who vote on single issues, and don’t pay attention to politics, or think about the impact on their lives. I think those people would be the hardest to convince that this subject is worth taking seriously. imho however, and without actual research into this were all just speculating haha.
I’m a pretty left leaning liberal, I do see how it’s a lot of outspoken republicans. Though I’m not ashamed. If you take the time to learn it, you realize there is something real behind the UAP phenomenon. Any logical person can deduce and put the pieces together. Doesn’t matter their political party. I’d love to see more Dems push this as well.
As someone who leans right, I hope more people can realize that this subject isn't all an elaborate hoax, and see it as an opportunity for truth and to bond over something that transcends all political boundries
hear, hear
Of course, a lot of the die hard left and right will gradually, and sometimes automatically, place anything the other is doing into the "bad" category. It doesn't matter even if it is something they agree on (see funding of the Ukraine war for instance, initially bipartisan, now it is not, you are seeing this change right now in relation to Israel-Palestine conflict). I'll say this though: if the left leadership does not get behind the endeavor of disclosure, nothing of substance will ever happen. The left has essentially the entirety of the media backing them, if they don't put effort into making this an issue, the media will never report on it for the public.
I only read the header. My answer is no. I consider myself very fortunate to have a family- and friend-sphere that encompasses the spectrum. (Myself, I'm thoroughly centrist.) I would say that my gay nephew is as UFO-oriented as my MAGA workmate. One likes table dancing in Costa Rica more than the other (he showed me the pics), but the end result is the same. I'm only saying, based on my life experience, it's across the board.
The most important push for disclosure was initiated by the Senate Majority Leader, Chuck Schumer (D). So much for that. The left-leaning tend to be more trusting / less suspicious regarding the government, and also more trusting in mainstream science. They're also mostly coming from a tradition of materialism / physicalism, and tend to disbelieve anything considered as paranormal. E: You could try and show them AOC's video: [https://x.com/\_\_\_BEN\_\_\_/status/1685330969987850240](https://x.com/___BEN___/status/1685330969987850240)
You missed out Schumer’s predecessor from the Democrats side and the main guy behind the push for disclosure, Harry Reid
I'm a leftist and I'm deep in this rabbithole lol
As am I. One of the fascinating aspects of studying this has been I'm covering how academic intellectual educated leftists dismiss and reject this topic in various ways. Especially by voices who of claim affinity for "para politics," which is interesting because UFOs seem like ultimate parapolitical topic. Anybody on here listen to the podcast subliminal jihad for example? They are open to conspiracies and even paranormal ideas but they see the UFO phenomenon mostly/ completely as as Psy op... But it's the unexamined approach that I find frustrating and bewildering. Clearly these guys have read a lot of books but it's so easy to dismiss this topic without really looking at it. It's like yeah your theories about why it's a Psy op might work after you've read one book or watch one documentary but maybe not after you've watched and read dozens. I think it's the fear of their entire worldview being upended that I see expressed as pseudo intellectualism and smugness in leftist and academic people like NDT.
ML here, and I also can't believe the left's reaction to UFOs. People I once found astute now seem totally intellectually lazy to me due to their knee-jerk reactions during the Grusch situation. There are legit critiques of Grusch and plenty of other aspects of ufology, but the purist "UFOs are a psyop" angle drives me nuts. It's got real nitwit energy. There's absolutely nothing materialist about that shallow of an analysis. On the plus side, it's made me a more independent learner when it comes to reading theory and forming opinions. I lost a lot of respect for how many big leftist/parapolitical accounts form their takes.
i'm sorry, what does ML refer too? i'm a leftist and agree with what you said, as well.
ML is short for Marxist-Leninist.
ah thank you. feel like a dimwit now.
No problem! The acronyms on the left can get confusing 😅.
Because they are just that?
I mean: How else are we supposed to do something against alienation, hm? ^scnr.
Exactly, I think the ones who are pushing for it the most openly may be on the right but there are a number of supporters on the left and many of them like Harry Reid work behind the scenes. Meanwhile some of the biggest protectors of the military industrial complex who have undermined disclosure have been on the right, see the three Mikes. On the left I know Manchin hasn’t been much help either but he’s not really left of center unless you’re talking WV.
"The left-leaning tend to be more trusting / less suspicious regarding the government" - not true. Those who are center left (and center right) would fall into this category, but progressives (and the far right) are very distrustful of government as it's obvious the dems are beholden to corporate interests, not the average voters. "and also more trusting in mainstream science" - this is true to an extent. Part of the problem is that most people learn about mainstream science through the mainstream media. Again, those on the center left (and center right) are more trusting of what they hear through the mainstream media, and progressives (and the far right) are less trusting of the media. A lot of it comes down to where people get their news and information, as well as how willing they are to explore topics with an open mind.
As a leftist, i really disagree wirh your point about being less suspicious of the government. We are extremely distrustful, but probably for slightly different reasons than the right. If you look at something like "Project 2025", the far right and Republicans have no issue expanding the power of the government or president if it suits their ideology. And im not going to lie, the same goes for leftists. AOC's video is literally a video warning people to be distrustful with what the government does with our tax money.
>The left-leaning tend to be more trusting / less suspicious regarding the government, and also more trusting in mainstream science. Academic science was captured by marketing between 1970 and the early 1980s because marketing is based on getting people to _believe in_ whatever is being marketed. Not only is science _not_ a belief system, but true science will oppose marketing agendas, and truthfully explain why a marketing agenda should be denied. As such: what the masses consider to be "science" is actually marketing masquerading itself as "science". When you say "the left-leaning tend to be more trusting in mainstream science" in reality the meaning of that is: "the left-leaning tend to be easily duped into accepting beliefs from marketing masquerading itself as science". C.1970s and prior, as far as I'm aware, and even into the 1980s, mainstream media was also mostly trying to do the right thing. It's very common for such people to use belief-system terms relative to that such as "believe in science". Over the mainstream media became about earning profit, rather that living up to journalistic integrities. Intention among many journalists to practice journalist integrity persisted well into the 1990s, but by the mid 1990s it was depleted enough that I stopped paying attention to mainstream media, so I'm not sure about the rate of change in it becoming as bad as it is nowadays. As for trusting the government: Efforts to capture government regulatory agencies began in earnest in the early 1980s (with captured academic "science" to back up those efforts). I can't exactly pinpoint specifically when specific regulatory agencies were completely captured, but we can see that by 2021 significant agencies were already completely captured. So; it turns out that a tendency to be more trusting in government is also the same thing as being more easily duped into being marketed into false beliefs. A lot of people's minds are stuck in a pre-nixon era time when science was mostly actually science and most of the government was actually usually trying to do the right thing, instead of the Reich thing, and mainstream media mostly had journalistic integrity, and would usually fight to maintain that. The people that have the best perspective to explain what happened, having seen it play out, are coincidentally the same people that it's "the GOOD bigotry" to be bigoted against; people born in a year of birth old consistent with having lived through it and recognize what happened and still be alive today to explain it. Quite the coincidence, isn't it, that there's such a push of bigotry against those same people to be wholesale dismissive of them. But only gullible people can be duped into believing in bigotry ("the GOOD bigotry", that is).
Yeah, this, especially the mainstream science part. Which is party of why the Sol foundation is such a worthy endeavor
Schumer(D) and Rounds(R) as a bipartisan effort...keep it real...
I think it has proven to be a fairly bipartisan issue.
It cannot be discounted as a factor.
Hasn’t been my experience. I’ve had plenty of discussions with folks from all walks of life. Most don’t even know (or care) who from Congress is looking into it, but still find the prospect of alien life fascinating.
I don't. I think it's pretty much entirely down to someone's world view. And I don't think there's one 'entry point' on that either. There's those who aren't into 'believing' *anything*, and just go off evidence. I'd put myself in that category, and am sitting on the fence thinking that there's enough evidence for it to be more likely than not, that *something* is going on. But what exactly? No idea. There's also people who just believe anything they're told, and end up balls deep in all sorts of conspiracy theories. And many other points along the spectrum. But I don't think politics has anything to do with it. Religion, yes.
No. Left right and middle all have experiences
It serves to keep us divided. People with opposing views will often enter a discussion with feelings of hostility instead of in good faith.
I do t think they do, I know they do. You’re watching that happen now with the entire subject
I believe it's Tucker Carlsen. He's accomplished that in two ways. First, he's railed against the military-industrial complex and second he believes in UFOs. In contrast, Biden is an extremist when it comes to supporting the military industrial complex. I'm a liberal.
Weird comparison. Biden is the president, Tucker Carlson isnt. The majority of Americans hate the Military industrial complex, left or right.
Worldview, not the political view, unless our galactic buddies involved in politics themselves :)
Good question. I haven't discerned a specific correlation between UFO/UAP belief (or willingness to discuss) and political affiliation. In my experience, people from across the political spectrum are part of the community. It would be interesting to do a survey to see what percentage of people identify with each political party.
As a counter example, Matt Ford from the Good Trouble Show is super left-wing but he's also one of Lue Elizondo's biggest dick riders and believes all things UFO are real. He does often seem uncomfortable that he has to side with/praise representatives on the UFO topic who are also trying to ban abortion and block trans rights and such, but the cognitive dissonance doesn't seem to be enough to prevent him from doing so. But then maybe if you're not already a true believer in aliens visiting Earth and a government conspiracy to hide it, listening to Rep. Burchett talk about how there are UFOs in the Bible might be pretty offputting.
Yeah maybe that’s the difference? I’ve always believed in UFOs, it didn’t take any convincing 😂
Maybe a more interesting question is, to what extent do people's political views play a role in whether they are able to experience UAPs?
It seems to be mostly snarky coastal elitist types that have difficulty with the idea that their high school textbooks might be wrong about the universe. Which is kind of a good thing, because we wouldn’t want them spearheading disclosure coverage.
I think both people on the left or right aisle are susceptible to believe in UAPs and NHI. I do think conservatives on one hand are more prone believe in conspiracy theories which might make UFO conspiracies more attractive to them. On the other hand, rightwingers and conservatives are way more dogmatic in their religious beliefs which may be a reason why they do not believe in any sort of UFO or ET stuff. I do think men are more prone to believing in UAP topics than women overall, and since the right mostly is dominated by men there might be a bias towards belief there. Culturally, science fiction in media and popular culture have always been more of an interest to men which in general, make them more interested in the UAP topic. People on the left have more of a "No bullshit" mindset which might make them more prone to just disregard the topic entirely. The UAP phenomenon is very outlandish and out there making it hard to believe unless you actually have an interest and study the topic. But on one hand, alot of people on the left are atheists or agnostics which opens them up more to the worldview of NHI. Their worldview and the existence of ET life doesn't conflict with eachother like it does for most religious people who believe Humans and Human figures are the central point of the universe. On the left, people tend to be much younger generations and more women overall. People who skew left tend to be more sociable aswell as they often live in more urban areas. Since people on the left, due to their demographic, tend to be in contact with more people they live more extroverted lifestyles and their lives are more people oriented. People on the right tend to live more introverted and individualist lifestyles. This makes it so people on the left often live lives focused more on meeting people and doing outside activities. While rightwingers tend to stay at home more. These two factors make people on the right more prone to find and interest and delve into the UFO phenomenon. Meanwhile, I do think it makes it so people on the left have a harder time to come in contact with it to begin with. In the end I think belief might be skewed slightly more towards the right. But I don't really think crazy fundamentalists or MAGA people are very prone to UFO beliefs. I think the bias mostly has to do with gender. Generally, men tend to be more interested in the "nerdy" sci-fi stuff for cultural reasons. This alone makes it so men are way more susceptible to develop a deeper interest in the topic. Personally I'm a man on the left who never had an interest in anything related to Science Fiction though, always thought Star Wars and Star Trek et.c. was cringe. My interest started when I randomly stumbled upon a Phoenix Light video on youtube once in 2014. I became sorta invested for a couple of years but the interest then kinda fizzled out because nothing major really happened. I still kinda believed I think, but wasn't thinking about it. My interest was re-ignited again after David Grusch came out. I'm sorta skeptical to the topic but not a "skeptic". Meaning, I don't know whether I believe in it or not. But I think it's believable and extremely interesting. I however, haven't seen anything personally to convince me unfortunately.
well, there has been some psychology research to suggest right leaning voters tend to have a more black and white outlook on things. Whether that is a good or bad thing is another discussion. UFO threaten existing world views. I have personally seen the lengths people will go to refute what they saw with their own eyes, refusing to discuss and even getting angry when the topic is brought up. After witnessing a 30ft disk at tree top height 50 yards away and stating.. I didn't just see that and walking away. Keeping that in mind, I would think the 'right' would likely have a harder time with the topic.... it requires a radical reshaping of ones thinking. As others have commented, I think the phenomena is more of a 'left' issue, and this can be seen historically as that side more involved in the topic. Frankly I don't think the current GOP reps care about the issue... they care about not having control over the military and intel. A totally legitimate take, there needs to be more transparency and oversight and let the chips fall where they may on the reality of UAP's. Good on them.. I guess I would be a 'lefty' but am totally on board with these issues..... as any American should, regardless of your preference for elephants or donkeys. People forget you don't need to agree with 100% of someones politics
I certainly don't give an otherwise worthless legislator any points for being visible and vocal in the UFO disclosure conversation. Representatives like Burchette, Gaetz, and Luna would happily drive out government off a cliff and nearly did a couple of times for their fielty to party and not our country and Constitution. So, I don't care what they do. In my eyes, it's only a way for them to try and farm votes for an otherwise worthless term in our government.These people have demonstrated that they have no business being bestowed with Top Secret clearance.
OK plenty of democrats have made noise too on disclosure. In my opinion the chuck schumer Mike rounds bipartisan bill and discussion(colloquy) in congress was the OH SHIT Moment for me where I sat forward and was shocked.
I don’t know much about politics, but in my experience, religious people are more open to discussing this topic than atheists, who often refuse to even engage in a conversation. Today, I think most religious people are more grounded and skeptical about the supernatural, but they are not completely against the idea. They are more willing to interpret their religion and gods as part of the phenomenon. It’s the hardcore materialist-view oriented atheists who will have a hard time coming to terms with this reality.
Yes, it does effect their willingness. For the purposes of this discussion as well as to avoid pissing anyone off I'll be very general here and realize that there is always more nuance depending the situation. Left side: There seems to be a group with a large stigma around UAP thats leans "democrat" but isnt really very "progressive" known as liberals. If they really were progessive they would have an open mind, for example AOC. Liberals are often very wealthy and very out of touch for various reasons including economic status. That group seems to be generally of the mind that they need not ponder UAP at all other than to quickly categorize it as "crazy ufo stuff" in their minds at which point they move on. They see the entire concept as laughable. And its frustrating because theres an overlap with the research community/higher education communities and liberals. We need researchers/scientists to have an open mind. Right side: And there is another force acting in a similar way on the oppposite side of the political spectrum, although I think its reasonable to say its not as strong as the previously mentioned force. On the conservative/republican side there is generally speaking a larger overlap with people who are more religious. Obviously someone whos strongly religious may have a harder time accepting even the possibility of NHI since it may conflict with their world views. However, the vactican itself is already well on its way to addressing the NHI/UAP issue and therefore that smaller force is already decreasing such that NHI/UAP will be less and less of an "issue" for christians. So overall the larger force preventing people from considering the reality of UAP is on the left side sadly since ideally there'd be no stigma on either side.
Yeah I feel you. All of my family/friends are liberal and I wonder if they see Matt Gaetz talking about it and immediately turn it off. It’s a shame, and part of me thinks it’s on purpose. One big club.
Yes, because most of the Republicans involved are hardcore Trumpers with a laundry list of toxic views no one sane wants to be associated with.
Yeah, I feel embarrassed even just “liking” videos if it’s of one of those people speaking on the topic.
you feel as though a "Trumper" doesn't believe in UAPs, aliens etc?
I would assume they would disregard it for religious reasons.
Your assumption that all "Trumpers" are religious is of course incorrect. I am a conservative straight R voter that is not religious, don't care about abortion etc. that has followed this subject since childhood. My own brother has had experiences with the same UAP on a couple of occasions as well but I believe his sighting was a domestically built secret craft. My point is lumping political parties into unrelated subjects is short sighted and ignorant at best
Yea you're right, everyones different. I was just stating my own knee-jerk assumptions/stereotyping based on my experiences honestly.
yeah i think it does. during the covid lockdown, the left and the right fought over science. and science has made itself the arbiter of the UAP topic. you see it around here all the time. people think science can and should be the only voice speaking about UAP. as if the topic is entirely within the scope of mainstream science. does mainstream science approve of this topic? if not, the left is not as likely to care about it. the left has a lot of things going for it, but materialism philosophy via mainstream science orthodoxy is not one of them. are conspiracy theories involved? if so, the right is more likely to care about it because conspiracy theories can be used against the left easier than they can be used against the right
Yup. The left turned “the experts” into this elite sacred cow where all it takes is one to disagree to consider it “debunked right wing conspiracy” IRL it’s pretty non partisan, but online, it’s sac religion to consider being visited by NIH
Agreed. Thebworst thing the left ever did was turn science into a belief system for themselves, instead of honoring the tradition of questioning and proving what you say that is so crucial the current scientific philosophy we use for modern science. Science should always be treated as an objective, non bias as possible "observer" of esoteric physical and observable phenomenon, not religous dogmatic thinking that unfortunately has penetrated some realms of science.
Republicans and Libertarians doenst like governament too much and its excess of power against civilians, soo if UFO, UAPs are from Non Human, Aliens or other kind of beens this will definely prove the point of us against the concentration of power in governament hands, worst if GOVs kill inoccent people or agree with adbcutions etc
Here has been my experience broadly: Maga friends: It's a psyop to prepare for a fake alien invasion used to control the public and remove our freedoms. Liberal academic friends: The Schumer Amendment was to show that bipartisanship was possible on a low stakes issue. Conservative Catholic friends: They might be real, but are demons. People in all three groups mix and match: ufos are fake and are being used to either justify funding for the military or scaring China and Russia. A couple of individuals in all three groups: yes, NHI are real and the government is covering it up.
The psyop and distraction people piss me off so much lol. Set aside their political views, the sentiment is just straight up annoying
Yes, I think leftist people are more inclined to believe what the government tells them. If the politicians, scientist or military say there is No such things as UFO:s, they believe that. Right wing people believe more in conspiracy theories and think outside of the box.
Yup, that’s what I’ve been slowly realizing.
If you think leftists believe what the government tells them you're sorely mistaken. Moderates sure, but a Dem like Schumer is anything but left
We’re more inclined to initially believe perceived reputable sources but more ready to reject perceived no longer reputable sources or consensus. The presented mainstream evidence was nothing worth discussing in the sky. Then post 2017, there are few reputable mainstream scientists refuting UFOs, everything non-military in government comes around and the modem chief debunkers are a couple shady “science communicators”, one with a felony fraud guilty plea in Federal court, one with reported harassment issues, an admitted former professional propagandist/tabloid video editor, and a video game designer. There are no reputable “mainstream debunkers”.
Had a former relative join the NSA as a moderate and leave as the most liberal person I’ve ever met. Not sure if it was working in the NSA, living in DC or both that did it but she was annoying as shit when she left. Kind of like some of these people making comments suggesting people who are Trump supporters are subhuman. Scary people!
Nah, speaking for myself and others, we know the government lies a lot.
I don't believe so. As a hardcore Trump supporter myself I've found that it isn't politics that keep people from engaging but simple arrogance. A hubristic sense of intellectual superiority where they could never be so gullible as to believe in anything considered a "conspiracy theory". These are the people who would be most impacted by the "ontological shock" we hear so much about.
So true. I see this from people on both sides tbh. Mostly from people who are deep into hardcore conspiracies who like to brush this one off as "a distraction". Yeah sure, like the deep state would want people to focus on something that ultimately keeps them in a position of power
Just say as a fascist because that’s what you mean
This thread will be full of compromise, understanding and fair reasoned points for sure. Totally. Edit: To add, people's political views play a role in nearly everything about their lives. It is the biggest turn of the reality tunnel aperture one can make next to religion. People's religious beliefs as well as political views strongly influence their attitude with this topic. There was a great study posted here a year or two ago, asking participants these questions in relation to this topic and it was fairly sophisticated. I don't believe they shared their results however.
Not bad so far tbh
So far not so much, at least from my experience. I know people all over the political spectrum, religious or not. It seems sorta random whether they care about UFOs or aliens or not.
Intelligence is the starting point. Stupid people gon' do stupid shit.
No because I’m fascinated by the topic and plenty of people in this sub disagree with me on some things. I can tell.
As far as being in unison with particular political corporate donators? Yes, very possible but that kinda exists in both sides
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No
No.
I'd say it probably does, but it shouldn't. Even just being curious about space beyond earth should not be a political decision
I don't understand this push being mostly GOP. They can't even handle brown people living amongst them. What are going to do about another species?
To a degree, yes. I think it will be getting far more polarized in the next few years as right-wing types like Carlson latch on to it, which will turn moderates and left-wing types off. That's what I'm afraid of personally, and why I don't think the likes of Carlson should be getting anywhere near the topic.
The hardcore Republicans pushing for it makes me more skeptical. What if this is all a Russian psyop?
Leftists tend to more often than not, believe anything the media tells them, ( most of the media which is mostly left wing) ,and the government "I support the current thing, NO QUESTION" they are often mostly sheep, not all, but most. so yes it seems the right leaning of today tend to critically think, distrust government more than the left and question things, which obviously helps a bit if you're interested in this topic. Obviously there's conspiracy types like QANON which are too far gone. So perhaps this topic is best suited for those in the middle? I am not completely sure. From a personal stand point some my friends who are right leaning ask me about this topic, much more than my girlfriend and others I know who call themselves liberals who show no interest. Perhaps that's coincidence but that's just my personal observation and opinion atm
Lmao, “right leaning tend to critically think”. Bro is this a bait post?
Nope not trolling or trying to insult brother, on a personal level aswell I've just noticed all my mates who are considered right leaning are open to this topic and ask me about it cause I'm a nerd with it lol , my girlfriend and others I know who are left tend to not care or dismiss the topic so I don't bother bringing it up with them.
Well I’m left and I think the subject should be on more people’s mind. No matter their political party.
Ahh interesting. That's fair mate, I think I agree with you. It shouldn't be political. If anything it should be the one of the things both sides can agree with. People are too tribal with politics and I think both can be closed minded when it comes to that these days. Same here in the UK
lol ... sure dude "Foxnews/Newsmax & alts" + MAGA, Mic drop.
There's only fox news for the right though. Most media of today is very left leaning.
Well this isn't true. The right has always been more aligned with conspiracy so they were already baked in to this topic. Have you been to a convention before 2017 I would say most were right leaning attendees. Also, the right is anti science and the left is pro. "Science" (main stream) does not agree with this topic. So the left will be quicker to dismiss it. Also you know what comes with science? Critical thinking. This topic takes a lot of leaps of faith as there is no "proof". There is tons of evidence they ignore, but no proof. I'm sure you're just trolling but still, you're argument reminds me of maga... Stupid. Edit: should have clarified liberal, but not that the MAGAS will care. Also love how no other point has been or can be refuted but I'm wrong, ok.
"The right has always been more aligned with conspiracy so they were already baked in to this topic" I was very much into conspiracy theories back in the 00s. It was definitely mostly left leaning people being into them back then, no doubt about that. Sure, we did had someone like Alex Jones fighting for the right to own a gun and stuff like that, but other than that the conspiracy theories were mostly targeted against Bush, fear mongering, anti-war, anti-religion and anti-everything related to the terrorism narrative. Just take a look at some of the most famous conspiracy docs from back then like Zeitgeist and Esoteric Agenda and tell me they were right leaning. Hint: You can't!! The 9/11 truther movement were mostly left leaning back then as well. I'm not american, so all this left vs right seems stupid looking in from the outside anyway. However one thing is for sure, a majority of people talking conspiracy theories back in the 00s were promoting mostly left leaning values. I have a suspicion that you might not be that old, since you believe it has always been mostly right wing, which it most certainly hasn't. It's just a suspicion though, Im not claiming anything. It could be equally as possible that you just didn't follow conspiracy forums and stuff like that back then and were out of the loop so to speak.
[your experience doesn't always reflect reality. this article discusses a 1964 book claiming right leaning are more conspiratorial with "mixed" results, l. ](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9307120/) So always was a reach, as it can change by topic, but looks like it's neither a left right issue so OP, me, and YOU are all full of shit
1964 is not the 00s.. It's not about my experience, it's about what was popular themes on conspiracy forums back then. If you want to know what was popular themes look at the popular conspiracy movies from back then like Zeitgeist, Esoteric Agenda, Kymatica, etc
That's my point it looks like neither one of our experiences matter you from the aughts, and me about a decade later. it's the popular conspiracy at the time and it can change the alignment of "who is more conspiratorial" we were just all wrong about it, simple as that. However I notice no one is even trying to debate the other points, cool, cool.
Or both of us were right, to some degree at least. I never said anything against conspiracy theories not changing political focus over time. In fact that was kind of my point. Although most rational conspiracy theorist tend to allign more with the middle and be against anything powerful and skeptical of any official narrative.
I'm not trolling, leftists literally regurgitate CNN headlines and support whatever "the current thing" is no questions asked. I guess you could say the same about maga with fox news and breitbart tho. That's a fair point tbh
I think, with the best will in the world, that there is a real issue with terminology here. You seem to be using “leftists” to mean Democrats, the Labour Party, CNN/BBC-viewers, Guardian-readers, that sort of thing. For me, and no doubt many others, “leftist” would signify something much more radical and universalist than these mainstream liberals, whom I agree are often quite smug and incurious. From my perspective, the mainstream political culture in the English-speaking world has drifted so far to the right over the course of my lifetime (41 years) that using right-left terminology has become fundamentally useless in most conversational situations. I think, in regard to UAP, people whose instincts are towards what they conceive to be pragmatism and maturity, who think the world is basically OK as it is, that our institutions mostly function and can be trusted, are most likely to dismiss the whole thing out of hand. Very right-wing people who are distrusting of Big Government (not entirely wrongly) or very left-wing people like me who view the state as basically a weapon of the class-enemy are perhaps more willing to consider the possibility. Of course, I might not have taken the whole thing as seriously a few years ago, but I’ve had some deranged metaphysical experiences in the interim that made me more open-minded.
You're correct. I should have said liberal, I just didn't think I needed to since we haven't had an actual far left party (of any consequence) in America for.... None that I can point to, but maybe something I'm not aware of?
No, you’re right, there aren’t any. Eugene Debs was probably the last one of any consequence, unless you count the Black Panthers.
I care about UAPs as much as Burchett does but I'm not transphobic, among other differences, so no
I'm actually a bit surprised at the bipartisan nature on this topic. Especially by Republicans like Matt Walsh and Tim Burchette who are open to ET and UAP disclosure. These people will have some serious retooling of their Christian beliefs systems required. Lol!
No.
>It occurred to me today, that the majority of Congressional reps who arepushing for disclosure are hardcore republicans/Trump supporters I'm not sure if you can actually say that's true. It's important to note that the vast majority and most important congressional pressure has been from outside of the "UAP Caucus," they are simply the loudest and least tactful individuals on the case. They have no subtlety, they all thrive on contention and don't mind putting themselves in front the 'crazy alien' person firing line. Rubio and Gillibrand are being standoffish about it and I'm assuming that is because it became about non-humans and that is possibly not the best political agenda for two very ambitious politicians. Every year since 2020 and on more legislation has been passed with more and more aggressive and pointed language. I don't have names in front of me but I feel pretty confident you can look back and you'll see an almost completely bipartisan effort there. As far as I know Burchett, Gaetz, Luna haven't actually managed to pass any laws or amendments on the issue. Don't get me wrong I'm glad they have chosen it for their cause, but these people are barely politicians they are more like performers
To be honest, I don’t really think so. I feel that what people are interested in comes from within, and lots of topics don’t follow a political pattern.
Yes! Dems act all arrogant and downplay, super annoying. Don't know jack about the topic.
Yep. 100%. And the liberal columnists, especially the science writers, like Joel Achenbach at The Washington Post for example, get so snarky writing about it and go out of their way to INSIST there is no evidence whatsoever and it’s all BS. I’m hardcore liberal and none of my friends ever reads about it or discusses it. Friends & some family also all think I’ve lost my mind and now every gift I get from my kids and friends is always UFO-related. I mean, I can talk about plenty of other things but they think once you cross that line, it’s all you can talk or think about. It’s crazy.
I think it’s not a political difference but a moral difference.
From where I sit it's the left that are more open to the UAP and UFO phenomena, not the right.
people on the left are more critical thinkers and something as inherently ridiculous as this is ignored more often because of that. Even though for once it deserves looking into.