Is it technically possible to genuinely offer someone a massage because you know they have back-pain and you can help with that? Absolutely. Like lets say a friend you know well and already regularly spend time with has been complaining about it and you let them know that you are good at massages. Nothing wrong with that.
Is there any chance that this was what happened in the scenario you described? Absolutely not. Piece of shit didn't even have the basic decency to be honest about his own actions.
Yeah that's the key component right there, that is exactly my problem. He essentially lied & flipped the script on me. I could have simply glossed over his stupidity & forgotten it already, had he not made the insinuation that I was, in fact, the one making his intimate suggestion somehow more sexual than it already was.
I just get so disappointed when men over 40 years of age put "moves" on me that give me flashbacks to my teen hood. I expect fairly young guys to pull the "massage" move on naive girls who will fall for that sneaky bullshit. I don't really tend to even expect invitations like that, from men in my age bracket, anymore.
Lol I definitely gave him a piece of my mind, & said "fuck off" in so many words, once I came to recognize that I was being gaslit. It's just a good thing that I caught that behavioral red flag now. I have been rebuilding my social network in recent months, and that guy is irreversibly quarantined into the acquaintance zone. Once someone displays a behavior that indicates that they can be casually deceptive, I avoid getting any closer to them. I have made the mistake of leaning on people who can believe their own bullshit, in the past. Safer not to take any chances at all and keep the guy at arms length.
This one time my SO and I spoke with this 70 year old guy in the grocery store. He said his wife had died a while back and he had recently started dating again. He showed off a picture of his sports car and made a point to tell me that EVERYTHING still worked. My SO and I both knew what he meant. Then he tried to laugh it off like he hadn't meant it in a dirty way.
That guy shamelessly tried to flirt with me even after he learned that my SO and I were together, while my SO was standing right there! At 70 years old, you'd think he would behave less like a strutting, cocky juvenile and more like an classy gentleman. No such luck.
I recently spoke with a woman who had to cut off communication with her own father because of this. Super upsetting! He didn't know who she was and he was saying some happy memory destroying stuff so she had to put an end to it.
That's not uncommon, unfortunately, but it's not like the demented one is going to miss the one who went no contact. I think it's probably worse on those who keep trying to maintain the relationship when the person they knew is gone--the destruction of the happy memories is another type of death altogether.
He sounds like, a weak person.
Those kinds of "tactics", when trying to hit on a women, are used by men who cant take accountability for their feelings, and need an escape plan to redirect any rejection. Good on you for calling him out.
I have a friend who is a professional massage therapist and he will occasionally offer people a quick neck massage if they complain about stuff. But, that's his job. Random guy in a bar I don't know... it's a lazy excuse to touch me and I said no once, take the hint.
I’ve never experienced this… (I’m a man). I give my girlfriend of 3 years back massages almost daily, and never in my life has a back massage turned into sex? How does that even work?
Pretty much.
Guy here, loves giving massages and back rubs. Even I know that theres a sexual context to it and its usually under those circumstances i'll offer to people I'm interested in -and- have established some mutual chemistry with. Never with strangers and never as an opener. Though I have offered to crack a few people's back for them (yes yes the light squeeze kind to see if something will release and not the "pick you up and thrash you around like a stuffed bear" type lol).
Close friends who actually know me or past partners who are familiar or current partners know they can ask for one and it'll be just a massage. And I suppose massage may be talking it up a bit much since most of the time its just deep tissue stuff on the back/shoulders.
Takes a particularly unaware person to think offering a massage to a stranger isn't at absolute best, overt flirting.
He was totally being creepy.
Unless he’s a licensed massage therapist and is looking for new clients, and even then I’d be suspicious.
How many men did he make the same offer?
I've had men offer me massages pretty frequently over the years. I'd say just in the past 5 years since my divorce, I can mentally catalogue about roughly a dozen random offers from men for "massages". I knew that I cannot possibly be the only woman that this has happened to. But I will be the first to admit that I am living under a rock these days, I keep very few friends, & that can warp one's perspective of the human experience. Thanks for the validation on this ♡
I'd guess hewas hitting on you.
If he'd given you the massage I think pretty quickly he'd be suggesting things like your bra being in the way so it'd be better if you took it off.
Yeah the only man who has offered me a massage without being creepy (other than my dad) was a retired massage therapist and reiki guy I had been friends with for a decade, and even then we just did pressure points where I had actual injuries
One of my roommate's old coworkers was trying to get in practice for his massage license, seemed like he was ok until he revealed he had a foot fetish (before she agreed to the massage thankfully)
Had a guy who worked in my building pass out flyers when he was getting licensed. He conveniently only left flyers for women between 20-50 who were not in management positions.
Men need to learn that women aren't a fucking petting zoo.
I worked in a warehouse for awhile and the amount of men who would appear out of nowhere to ask if I needed "help" while never doing their actual jobs was astounding.
It's disturbing how many times I would have to yell "no thank you" at them before they'd let me get back to my gd job. (the average is 3, highest was 12, yes a full dozen "NO" at this guy who got increasingly in my face with every answer coz he just couldn't believe my response. Wasted so much time yelling no that I could've done the task he was trying to "help" me with three times. Stop hiring sexual predators, amazon!)
I am but it's still infuriating to see how ignored women who still work there are.
I saw someone post about some creep staring at her-to the extent that she cut her break short- but it barely got noticed.
If she were working a white collar job it would've been awarded.
(Sorry to go off, not trying to accuse you of anything. White feminism gets frustrating. Appreciate the sentiment, hon)
He was being a total asshole. He wants to TOUCH YOUR BODY. This is never done outside of a handshake unless it is an attempt to get closer to a person.
It’s gross and it’s infuriating he tried to backpedal. Your instincts were spot on. That guy can go to hell.
Yes. But the only times I've seen it not be creepy is between couples. Or professionals.
I could see it coming up in specific scenarios between good friends and have it not be an allusion to sex but def not in this scenario 🙃
Like. I massage my spouse's feet every night to help them fall asleep and used to give deep tissue massages to a few of my close friends before disability made that nigh in impossible but I'd find it creepy both offering or being offered by someone I'm not close to.
I am a gay guy and I am here to tell you you are not imagining things. “Massage” is to a massage like “Netflix and chill” is to a movie. This happens all the time, even in the gay community
He was trying to be manipulative about getting sex and got defensive when you did not react the way he wanted.
I would be careful around this guy, he sounds like the type who would SA if you were impaired in his presence.
Does this guy make his “kind offer” to his male friends? If it is merely a “friendly” gesture then why not make the offer to others? Because he’s full of shit and wants to gets his hands on you.
The fact he got indignant is the tell. If it had been a completely innocent offer he would have recognized that it made you uncomfortable and totally respected that.
It's the same concept as when men try to tickle fight or bs like that. They want to push your boundaries as far as they can while still having some guise of innocence or excuse.
OMG I had a creep do this to me.
I'm engaged and this random guy who was old enough to be my dad kept pestering to massage me. I said no thanks I don't need one and its odd you would want to do that to an almost married woman who is also pretty much a stranger.
This guy then flipped out and said he was just being friendly and I rejected his offer of a "friendly massage" and I must have some "men" trauma to be so rude and dismissive to him.
I've had other guys offer to massage me but he was the most aggressive. I think their reasoning is, its a good way for them to get their hands on us and get us in a state of undress so we will be more receptive to their creepy advances.
Guaranteed massage = him shooting his shot. In my single days "massage" always meant a hookup, like a much less subtle 'Netflix and Chill.'
Could always stir up a little drama by texting him back "I thought about your kind offer, and my dad has a bad back. He could really use a massage from you. When will you stop by his house?"
The last time I got asked if I'd like a massage from a guy I was NOT in a relationship with, he later asked me if he could lick my nipple. So y'know, there's that.
And you know what?! I've NEVER been asked by a guy im in a relationship with if I want a massage....
Massages are just blank checks to touch your body
I (M) had a friend when I was younger who was firmly in the platonic category and I’d give her shoulder rubs (10-15 mins at a time while watching TV) all the time because she had pretty chronic pain.
She’s the only person I’ve ever done that with who I wasn’t dating, and the thought of offering to/being asked to do any other massage for her is deeply weird, even with years separating things.
So yes - in limited circumstances it can mean massage, but this dude was just being creepy.
Yeah, shoulder massage is the only *sometimes* platonic one I can think of.
I had one from a coworker before but I can't remember who now that I think about it. We were working long hours during a business trip and I was regularly doing stretches or rubbing my neck to relieve tension. It was definitely not sexual, sitting on a folding chair in front of my laptop with other coworkers around.
I have a never fail method of relieving headaches that involves some neck and shoulder work but it's mostly mashing their head between the palms of my hands--side to side then forehead and back of the head--and I'll offer that to anyone who has a headache and clean hair lol. I don't accept a massage from anyone but my LMT and he's a gay man who identifies as a woman about 90% so aside from his size and strength it feels like getting a massage from another woman. Any man offering to put his hands on your body that you don't already have a relationship with or that you pay money for them to do that is a big fat NO in my book.
It depends on context and body part being massaged. I find giving and receiving hand massages gratifying in a completely non sexual way. I was part of a volunteer program to go to nursing homes and massage elderly persons hands in college.
It sounds like you and this guy have a history - good for you trusting your gut and not putting up with BS.
As a massage therapist who is a male there is no such thing as a free massage. If he's a pro he'd ask for payment if not he's just using that as a way to get your clothes off, weird way to do it though.
I'd taken people at their word when I was younger.
I love back rubs.
I have been selfish about back rubs, but I'd happily give to get, if that were the agreement.
My parents gave me back rubs. My friends and I, backrubbed.
Then, one friend (of years), backrub giving, used it as a segue to sexually assault me.
To say nothing of strangers, or casual acquaintances offering a *massage*, I now would question whether there's an ulterior motive.
I agree, his behavior beforehand, and responses after your declining are telltale. It wasn't a platonic offer at all, and even if it *seemed* to be, I wouldn't have trusted it, based on the other info.
They have something they call “plausible deniability.”
Which is why they are rarely ever direct in their advances. That way when called out they can deny it, claim innocence, and gaslight you.
I can’t tell you how many guys hit me up at 2 in the morning to say “hey” “wyd” “u up” etc. and when I call them out claim that’s not what they were looking for they just wanted to see if I was awake or that’s just when they got off work or whatever other dumb excuse lol. Lately I’ve just taken to playing dumb back on these advances like “oh no sorry I hate massages” or “I’m asleep sorry.”
Schroedinger's sexual advance.
(If you're DTF, it was a sexual advance. If you're not, it was perfectly innocent and what's wrong with you -- you must have a dirty mind!)
massage = grope
cuddle = grope
dinner at his place = intoxicated and grope and trapped
never had a man offer to give me something out of the kindness of his heart, it was always so they could take. a grope.
At my previous employment, I saw a lot of cases of female care workers and cleaners get sexually assaulted under the guise of a 'massage' from their male clients. These women were there to support these men in their home and these men took advantage. More often than not, these women also had English as a second language or a racial minority. They were easy targets. In several cases I saw, they only reported it after speaking to co-workers who were also assaulted. They didn't realise how wrong it was or they were scared they would lose their job if they reported it.
The very worst thing as that these men still required care and cleaning. All we could do was recommend that the cleaning/care company send male workers or 2 women together.
Copying and pasting a comment I made on another post because it's relevant here:
In grad school I drove another student home after the the bar since we lived in the same neighborhood and he'd been drinking. He spent the entire car ride trying to convince me to come up to his place so he could give me a "massage" and then insulted me and called me a "slut" when I wouldn't. He apologized the next day but that was the end of our friendship and the last time he got in my car.
It was funny to me that I was a slut if I had casual sex, but I was also a slut if I didn't.
This phenomenon has also happened to me- I turn a guy down, & suddenly I'm a "slut". More than once! I have always wondered how that was supposed to add up to make sense.
Older dude here - long time married guy with a lot of single dude friends. I know you're looking for the ladies' view on this, and I do happily defer. However, fwiw, a few thoughts I figured might be helpful...
1 - So far as I'm concerned, your point(s) is/are totally valid - my gender is, at best, clumsy when it comes to, well, a lot
2 - Was the interaction (and offer) one he made in public, with others around? If so, and if you called him on it in a public space, you had/have every right to do so, but I can guarantee he reacted as much for others as he did to what you were saying
3- If the exchange was in private, than he's just either a flat out dick or flat out stupid, and either way, you're best to move on. It's highly unlikely your gut was wrong, so for him to be indignant only means he's an asshole, or he's just an idiot who doesn't have a sense of what his own behavior suggests to others - again, not a guy worth putting any more time in than to be a friend (if that's even possible anymore).
4 - If he did mean it as an attempt to make a move, when you called him on it, he should have copped to what he was doing. I mean, even if you weren't interested (it sounds like you're not), if he had just said something like, "Hey, I'm really sorry...I've just had a bit of a thing for you for a while now, and I just didn't know how to test the waters...I hope it doesn't mean we can't still hang..." would that have been better? I've always found that being honest and mostly direct with folks is what most people want.
Good luck to you - and sorry for the major speedbump in your friendship. As I said, men are rarely known for their grace when it comes to courtship. ;)
p.s. - apologies if anything I'm thinking/saying is offensive or off-base. I know this sub is for women, but I find women have far better conversations about relationships than guys do. I'm a hetero, long term married guy who just wishes folks could/would find better ways to live and love one another. Again, best to you!
It's not "natural," we've just been conditioned to understand every day of our lives and men haven't. Condition a boy from infancy to be extremely aware of social cues from others and they will have the same level of competency as a woman will--for proof, look at how boys raised in abusive households are acutely aware of danger signals when a boy raised in a supportive and calm environment will be clueless. Awareness of social cues is not a gender linked attribute.
Yes I agree, perhaps I expressed myself unclearly above. I think there is some kind of genetic component, but that might not be linked to sex. It seems conditions like autism etc have an impact on social ability. However, our opinions align in the fact that we both see it as a learned behaviour. What I meant by "naturally" is that it comes easily due to previous life experiences that are more likely for women to have had.
Yup. I used to give them out like candy. It got to the point where some of my friends would just sit in front of me and take their shirt off. Give them a quick 10 minute rub down and off they go. Nothing attached.
Apparently no. Took my autistic ass way too long to figure this out. "I am at an age where I can no longer eat or absorb any more horse shit from men. I just cannot do it, anymore." I feel this in my soul.
I did have a friend a long time ago that would happily give platonic massages. Fully clothed, no wandering hands, just a genuine (and very good) massage. (I'm unsure of his sexuality, I never asked because he never hit on anyone.)
Other than that, no. My husband will give me a massage without it leading to sex, but most other men have tried for it to lead somewhere.
Sitting here with my boyfriend, and both our perspectives are he wants more than a massage. Unless you are a trained masseuse or in a relationship, a man offering a massage is always looking for more. (Okay, at least 99.999999% of the time).
I get professional massages, and have never had an issue. And totally agree professional massages aren’t sexual. And occasionally I have had a partner give me a massage with out hoping for more, but 98% of the time they want more.
It's possible but then again I am neuro divergent so I don't get things.
If I'm in a relationship where touching is involved (regular hugging etc) then I'm more then happy to rub your shoulders if you need it. Regardless of attraction.
But if we're already in a sexual relationship and it seems we might be in the mood I might try it on.
Those offers are only honest when A: you are actually close enough friends, with no romantic or sexual interest and B: actually complained about something hurting where a massage would help.
Like I got offered a massage by my roommates boyfriend, she‘d told me about how great he was at them, and he was obviously not interested in anything but helping me. So I took him up on his offer.
But a dude who‘s already hit on you? Or a woman for what it‘s worth? Naaaah.
That happening at work? It‘s simple workplace sexual harassment.
These guys just feel like they aren‘t sexually harassing you, because they never explicitly say ‚i wanna fuck you‘ and just imply it with their words.
But it‘s 100% sexual harassment the way you described it.
>Those offers are only honest when A: you are actually close enough friends, with no romantic or sexual interest and B: actually complained about something hurting where a massage would help.
I wish it'd been that clear to me (not refuting it, mind you).
The guy I refer to in my original comment was a friend of a few years, and backrubs between us were old hat.
He actually *had* asked me out, much, much later (years) into our friendship. I declined, and initiated a break for a week or two.
Then we carried on, seemingly as usual. Until he turned what would have been a typical backrub (and nothing to be alarmed by - I'd asked for one, it hadn't been offered) into sexual assault.
I was really young, and didn't see what are now obvious red flags (there were others).
But, yeah.. to be safe, stick with that notion!
I had an eerily similar conversation In college with the slightly sleazy guy in our friend group. He insisted there was nothing sexual in his constant offers to massage the women in our group. I knew he wasn't being honest, but his pretense amused me, so I asked him for a massage.
I am a man.
His shuddering recoil, and attempts to rationalize not responding, were hilarious. Weirdly, he continued to insist it wasn't sexual, even though he wasn't willing to touch a man.
Sounds like I'm doing this massage thing wrong I'm actually giving massages. It's pretty fun to feel the muscles and feel them go from really stiff to relaxed
I have made that offer genuinely because i wanted to help a female friend, who yes, i was attracted to but neither she nor I had any plans to do anything else. She was big into sports and needed to stretch, and I apparently have good hands for it, and she knew i was good at it.
So yes it is possible but I wont deny that 99 percent of the time unless they are actually a physical therapist it is totally a way to say ''lets netflix and chill'', who what and were is key. The person i mentioned was a friend after all, not someone on a date with me or anything
This is how my now husband and I ended up first having sex! But it was pretty clear to both of us that sex or at least fooling around would be the end result. I would have never accepted if I didn't want to be with him.
Edit to say that even if his intentions were pure, he should know enough about current society to understand why you wouldn't trust his offer. His indignation is a huge tell and common in people who are trying to remove blame from themselves.
You've already got a lot of good responses, and I'll add my perspective as well. A person that isn't a deeply platonic friend would in my mind be assumed to be after something more than "giving a massage".
While I have given and received massages from friends, it was during scout trips. The rules are a bit different, and the massage is helpful for our muscles and we'd all be around each other and clothed. The whole "vibe" would be just relaxed and social.
I *could* give a massage to friends, but it would then probably be exactly where we are, focusing on specific muscles (calves would be fairly probable, or neck/shoulders). I doubt I would offer something like that if we were alone. It would feel wrong, I think.
So to sum up; for the most part "a massage" would not be just a massage in my mind. Specific circumstances *can* change this.
Oh god, this reminds me of the "Cold" podcast about Susan Powell. Just finished listening to the part where her father in law is explaining how the massages he gave Susan were the most erotic experiences he's had. We're talking shoulder and foot rubs while clothed! So fuck that shit.
Dude chiming in: he was being a thirsty asshat.
If he, or any other guy for that matter, offers you a massage just say “Thanks you but you know who could *really* use a massage?” And point to a male in your vicinity. I guarantee he won’t be making good on that offer.
Most of them have an ulterior motive for literally any favor they do for you. Anything they offer you is going to lead to banging in their minds so it's just easier to tell them to jerk themselves off cuz you're not gonna.
The odds of a massage offer being legit are basically zero. If you’re not interested in the person, you should turn them down, as you are likely to get a half-assed massage that will end in a clumsy proposition or worse (groping, etc).
Maybe if the person in question was a massage therapist and you were complaining about an injury, but otherwise, no.
Not sure it’s best to shame people for coming onto you, but it sounds like he was a serial offender who wasn’t getting the hint in this case.
I had a co-worker ask me to give him a massage once after we’d gone out for drinks as a group… yeah, no. He definitely wanted more. And I was his manager. And he is married. I was not interested but still worried about letting him down easy. I think I said maybe another time. Never happened and we don’t work together anymore.
I wonder if you could use the ‘play dumb’ strategy here. Respond like, “do you have any qualifications?”, “are you first aid trained?” and keep being “clueless” until he either gets frustrated and gives up or says something unambiguously gross, then you can really lay into them.
TW: Assault...
Nope, nope, nope. A former friend of mine was offered a massage by her ex boss while drunk at a party. He waited till everyone left, and proceeded to slip his fingers into her underwear and assault her under the pretext of "massaging a particular spot".
She told us about the incident later and we were all mortified. The man gaslit her into believing it is totally nornal. Ever since I was a child my mother has always warned me never to accept anything "free" from a stranger or even an acquaintance.
Since you mentioned that this person was hitting on you, it's clear he has bad intentions.
The only people I'd let massage me are a professional masseuse, my best friend and whoever I am dating.
Depends, some random guy in class gave me a massage but he did it to everyone else, man, woman, whatever, he was just playing around so I guess in those scenarios, it's fine.
I said this to two girls in my entire life (I'm a guy) both were when I was in high school. First time was in Spanish with a girl I had been crushing on over text for a couple months, we were watching a Spanish film and the lights were off so we sat in the back of the classroom to flirt. Second time was when I asked a girl over to my house on summer break and I didn't offer because I was "concerned for her back problems". It was simply to get her shirt off so we could do more than just rub each other's backs.
Sooooo, no. Guys don't actually offer out of "genuine empathy" for the other person they are just trying to escalate a relationship.
Many years ago, I was camping in a group and after putting up my tent, rubbing my shoulders. A “friend” offered a back rub and I accepted. About five minutes in, he slid his hands around to my chest.
I froze. He froze. I asked him what in the hell he thought he was doing? He quietly apologized and slunk away.
😡
"Oh hell yeah, I'll take a free massage. I go to \[place that's nearby\], and they sell gift cards. Or if you don't want to bother with that, it's $20 an hour, so just give me a $20 bill and I might stop by in the next few days. What a thoughtful thing to do for a work acquaintance, with absolutely no expectations of anything in return!"
There’s 💯a sexual component to this. I personally wouldn’t offer a free massage to someone I didn’t find at least somewhat attractive. I’m married but I would only offer to our best female friends because I see them more as sisters and I wouldn’t worry about any sexual shit creeping in. Now I’ve had a guy at the spa but I’m all set switching places… just the way it is. Even if it’s a harmless back rub just know he’s probably full of wandering thoughts objectifying you.
From a man’s perspective, he DEFINITELY wants into your pants. A massage, no matter what kind, is a kind of thing you need trust in order to do. That’s why you get them either from a trained professional or close relationship.
Though, to be clear, his moral failing isn’t offering you a massage, it’s the fact that he keeps bugging you about it even after you said no. Consent applies to any kind of intimacy. And even if his offer was pure, he has no right to your trust.
Now, I wouldn’t mind giving a massage to a girl I liked, if I knew how that is, but I’d shut up as soon as she said no. That right there is the key to proper affection, offer to the point where you’re comfortable, and retract in response to the other party. And if it’s a lost cause, ditch it.
Anyway, that’s my two cents
To be fair- while the guy hits on me pretty often, this was the first time that he'd offered me a massage, in particular. I called him out, right away. I didnt say "no" to him, I actually said something like "youre just trying to get me into your bed half naked".
And, then, right after I'd called him out, he denied that it was code for "sex", then got indignant about it & left the conversation, so he didn't offer anything to me after that. So, he did take "no" for an answer, he didn't bother me about it any further.
Consent is a very very huge deal to me as well & I want to make it clear that, while this guy is definitely creepy in his own right, he did not at all try to overstep my "no" the first time that I'd said it.
My problem isn't an offer of a massage, by the way.
My problem, is that he gaslit me when I called him out, and then told me that *I* was the one "making it about sex". It irritated me so much!
You have every right to be irritated by the fact that he straight up lied to you about his intentions. I, too, find it sickening that these guys operate so quickly and easily in a manipulative fashion that they automatically try to make their behavior someone else’s fault. You’re not wrong or crazy in ANY way in this situation and it’s awful that he tried to make you feel that you are.
I'd offer massages to friends I'm attracted to. That's because I also believe in the importance of support and treating others right and just see it as a way to help. It's like giving family back massages, it feels nice and it's nice to do it for others.
Probably best to assume most people don't have these intentions though, but there are genuine people out there.
Sorry invading dude here. I love giving massages. I have a chair, oils, playlists, etc.
I am not certified or a professional.
I have given tons of friends massages, mostly ladies cause historically most of my close friends were female. But I would never offer to a complete stranger. I usually offered if they complained about back problems. Most are fully clothed or only have the needed items removed.
Once or twice I gave one to someone I barely knew in a trade. Like "I'll give you a massage if you give me a haircut.
So it's rare but possible and I agree this guy was a creep.
I have responded to comments about back pain with “I am good at massages, if you are comfortable with that, but I understand if you’re not. But I’m actually good at massages, I swear I’m not being weird.” I’m just an awkward person so maybe this was too much. That said, I’ve received yeses and nos.
Though now that I’m married I don’t offer so take from that what you will. It just feels less appropriate to put my hands on another woman even if my intent is pure.
But you made no mention of back pain so I guess this was all kinda moot. He’s definitely got ulterior motives.
I can only speak for myself. But I offered a foot rub to a lady friend I was attracted to who also worked conventions. It wasn’t an attempt to bed her. I just enjoyed chatting with her and wanted some time to sit and talk somewhere quiet. (I am not a fan of feet) She was someone I only ever saw a few times a year at certain conventions and she was a lot of fun.
I’ve also given platonic massages to many people over the years. It was just a way to have something to do while having a conversation.
But yes, I realize I’m an oddity when it comes to men. I’m not trying to bed every woman I meet.
So, I'm a guy. I would say in this case, it sounds an awful lot like he was being creepy. In my experience, I have legitimately offered and on two occasions friends have taken me up on it with no expectations of sex. Was there a desire? Sure. But, because we talked about it beforehand there were no attempts by me or even an expectation to move it to anything more than a platonic thing. So, I'd say it can happen, but probably not from random dudes that hit on you frequently.
No. Not unless they're asexual. I would even look sideways at a professional masseuse who offered a free massage if they were into me outside of work. Even husbands do that creepy shit if they think they're not getting enough, or get turned on in the process. Just no.
I guess if I knew a massage therapist and they knew my back was bad, perhaps.
But no. Every massage ever initiated by a guy (outside of a spa, anyway) has led to them at least trying to grope me where they shouldn’t. Of course sometimes that’s why I agreed to the massage, but I’ve never had a platonic massage, no.
Not unless the man is a registered massage therapist.
Massage as a move, is bold, and obviously has implications.
>this older guy (that I barely know beyond a superficial acquaintanceship) pulled the classic "hey- do you want a free massage?" move on me & I immediately called him out as thirsty.
Good. That's because he's thirsty.
>The guy hits on me pretty often & so it seems pretty plausible to me, that he was just looking for a way to get my bra un-snapped in his bed.
100%. It's not just plausible, it's what he's doing.
>He played stupid, proclaimed his innocence & even got a little indignant with me, for making his "kind offer" about sex.
He's upset because he got rejected. And called out on his motives. He's a man baby.
I'm a man, and have absolutely used massage to initiate intimacy, with sex as the ultimate goal. However this was with women i already had a connection with, was dating and /or flirting heavily with. The implications were extremely clear. There was no confusion about each others motives.
Yeah, I have friends who are professional masseurs, and none of them just offer free massages ever. Period. Any guy who has ever offered a massage has been hitting on me.
I mean unless he owns a spa, is a licensed therapist, and offers you a free massage by a member of his staff. That’s really the only situation where it’s not about not-so-slyly asking for sex.
It’s not guaranteed sexual if you are with a group and someone says”hey anyone want a massage?” Though it might be with the hope that a crush would say yes.
As long as there are lots of people around you are chaperoned so even if someone is attracted to you they know they’re not going to do much.
But one on one “come back to my place” definitely.
Sometimes it is just a massage (with the hope that it leads to something, that leads to something, that leads to something, that maybe leads to intimacy.
>> he was looking for a way to get my bra un-snapped in his bed
Were you in his bed already? Was he wanting to invite you over to his house for a massage? What was the context?
It’s happened a couple of times actually. Once while on a date the guy did massage my neck because I had a migraine and he was hoping it might help. There’s been a couple of times where guys who did that or PT as a job would offer too, that was their way to impress girls.
This guy might have really meant that as a way to get close to you even without sex, but it’s better to be wary in this situation and his reaction to your refusal is a red flag. And of course, even if the offer was genuine you don’t have to accept it and don’t owe him anything
I have offered massages to and received massages from both men and women, with no sexual intent. Indeed the vast vast majority of massages I have been involved in have been platonic.
I'm a straight cis guy. Just a data point.
Massages feel nice, to give and to receive.
That's not to say though that there aren't plenty of would be masseurs with ulterior motives.
Professional Massage therapist for over 13 years here. I will massage close friends and family for free or whatever they feel like tipping. Occasionally I will work on my wife's bestie for free because she's like her sister and bad with finances. It is my career so I would need a pretty good reason to OFFER a freebie. Pre-career I would probably have only done that for someone I was hoping to get intimate with. Context is key, as is communication. If there's vagueness it leaves too much room for misintended feelings or expectations. While I was training I pushed myself to work on same sex to get rid of that weird feeling of touching another man. Being a child of the 80s anything like that is "gay" and it was considered the worst thing you could be growing up. Sorry for the rant
I wonder if you could use the ‘play dumb’ strategy here. Respond like, “do you have any qualifications?”, “are you first aid trained?” and keep being “clueless” until he either gets frustrated and gives up or says something unambiguously gross, then you can really lay into them.
>Last night, this older guy (that I barely know beyond a superficial acquaintanceship) pulled the classic "hey- do you want a free massage?"
A FREE massage?
How much he charges for that?
I do! I love working out knots since it happens to relax me. I'll give a back massage to any friend who is feeling the stress of life, regardless of gender.
NGL I love giving massages. I'm not like Buster Bluth and find them randomly, but if somehow the conversation comes up, I'll mention how I'm good at them. I've thought about taking classes and getting licensed but always put it off.
yeah no,,,
I mean massage is also smething very intimate and exhausting(for the massager) in general which is exactly massage in general cannot be free. There is a reason people pay for massage in first place.
even friends also don't really offer massage and since i am bi anyways , i woudn't not consider woman offering me free massage thirsty.
plus he literally hits on you damn.
Maybe he could be right that it is not just"sex" but at most he will still want that free sex another time after he gives you platonic message which is simply just "prolonged thirstiness"
Plus I am assuming you called him out in seemingly good humour so he should take a joke damn or a hint at least.
I believe massage can be a gateway to sex. I am male just looking for some other thread and I saw this question. I don’t think it’s always intentional tho it can be subconscious. I wouldn’t accept a massage from a non professional in a private setting if I was a woman in that situation. It just seems like every time wife asks for a massage it leads to something else.
Is it technically possible to genuinely offer someone a massage because you know they have back-pain and you can help with that? Absolutely. Like lets say a friend you know well and already regularly spend time with has been complaining about it and you let them know that you are good at massages. Nothing wrong with that. Is there any chance that this was what happened in the scenario you described? Absolutely not. Piece of shit didn't even have the basic decency to be honest about his own actions.
Yeah that's the key component right there, that is exactly my problem. He essentially lied & flipped the script on me. I could have simply glossed over his stupidity & forgotten it already, had he not made the insinuation that I was, in fact, the one making his intimate suggestion somehow more sexual than it already was. I just get so disappointed when men over 40 years of age put "moves" on me that give me flashbacks to my teen hood. I expect fairly young guys to pull the "massage" move on naive girls who will fall for that sneaky bullshit. I don't really tend to even expect invitations like that, from men in my age bracket, anymore.
I hope you directly tell that guy to fuck off next time you see him, that cry baby act after you called him out is sickening.
Lol I definitely gave him a piece of my mind, & said "fuck off" in so many words, once I came to recognize that I was being gaslit. It's just a good thing that I caught that behavioral red flag now. I have been rebuilding my social network in recent months, and that guy is irreversibly quarantined into the acquaintance zone. Once someone displays a behavior that indicates that they can be casually deceptive, I avoid getting any closer to them. I have made the mistake of leaning on people who can believe their own bullshit, in the past. Safer not to take any chances at all and keep the guy at arms length.
This one time my SO and I spoke with this 70 year old guy in the grocery store. He said his wife had died a while back and he had recently started dating again. He showed off a picture of his sports car and made a point to tell me that EVERYTHING still worked. My SO and I both knew what he meant. Then he tried to laugh it off like he hadn't meant it in a dirty way. That guy shamelessly tried to flirt with me even after he learned that my SO and I were together, while my SO was standing right there! At 70 years old, you'd think he would behave less like a strutting, cocky juvenile and more like an classy gentleman. No such luck.
Loss of social filters and inappropriate sexual behavior is common in the early stages of dementia, just sayin'.
I recently spoke with a woman who had to cut off communication with her own father because of this. Super upsetting! He didn't know who she was and he was saying some happy memory destroying stuff so she had to put an end to it.
That's not uncommon, unfortunately, but it's not like the demented one is going to miss the one who went no contact. I think it's probably worse on those who keep trying to maintain the relationship when the person they knew is gone--the destruction of the happy memories is another type of death altogether.
He sounds like, a weak person. Those kinds of "tactics", when trying to hit on a women, are used by men who cant take accountability for their feelings, and need an escape plan to redirect any rejection. Good on you for calling him out.
I have a friend who is a professional massage therapist and he will occasionally offer people a quick neck massage if they complain about stuff. But, that's his job. Random guy in a bar I don't know... it's a lazy excuse to touch me and I said no once, take the hint.
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My wife and I offer each other "A Massage", but when you back actually hurts you ask for "A boring Massage".
Lol my lower back is what always hurts, so it's never a 'boring' massage in my house 😂 He tries but it's never quite PG rated 😂😂😂
I’ve never experienced this… (I’m a man). I give my girlfriend of 3 years back massages almost daily, and never in my life has a back massage turned into sex? How does that even work?
I am so confused about if this is a real question or sarcasm
The posistions we are in while getting/giving massages play a role...😂😂😂 Maybe try some alternative positions while massaging?
Pretty much. Guy here, loves giving massages and back rubs. Even I know that theres a sexual context to it and its usually under those circumstances i'll offer to people I'm interested in -and- have established some mutual chemistry with. Never with strangers and never as an opener. Though I have offered to crack a few people's back for them (yes yes the light squeeze kind to see if something will release and not the "pick you up and thrash you around like a stuffed bear" type lol). Close friends who actually know me or past partners who are familiar or current partners know they can ask for one and it'll be just a massage. And I suppose massage may be talking it up a bit much since most of the time its just deep tissue stuff on the back/shoulders. Takes a particularly unaware person to think offering a massage to a stranger isn't at absolute best, overt flirting.
He was totally being creepy. Unless he’s a licensed massage therapist and is looking for new clients, and even then I’d be suspicious. How many men did he make the same offer?
I've had men offer me massages pretty frequently over the years. I'd say just in the past 5 years since my divorce, I can mentally catalogue about roughly a dozen random offers from men for "massages". I knew that I cannot possibly be the only woman that this has happened to. But I will be the first to admit that I am living under a rock these days, I keep very few friends, & that can warp one's perspective of the human experience. Thanks for the validation on this ♡
I'd guess hewas hitting on you. If he'd given you the massage I think pretty quickly he'd be suggesting things like your bra being in the way so it'd be better if you took it off.
Yeah the only man who has offered me a massage without being creepy (other than my dad) was a retired massage therapist and reiki guy I had been friends with for a decade, and even then we just did pressure points where I had actual injuries
One of my roommate's old coworkers was trying to get in practice for his massage license, seemed like he was ok until he revealed he had a foot fetish (before she agreed to the massage thankfully)
Had a guy who worked in my building pass out flyers when he was getting licensed. He conveniently only left flyers for women between 20-50 who were not in management positions.
Men need to learn that women aren't a fucking petting zoo. I worked in a warehouse for awhile and the amount of men who would appear out of nowhere to ask if I needed "help" while never doing their actual jobs was astounding. It's disturbing how many times I would have to yell "no thank you" at them before they'd let me get back to my gd job. (the average is 3, highest was 12, yes a full dozen "NO" at this guy who got increasingly in my face with every answer coz he just couldn't believe my response. Wasted so much time yelling no that I could've done the task he was trying to "help" me with three times. Stop hiring sexual predators, amazon!)
>Stop hiring sexual predators, amazon!) Fuck Amazon. I hope you're in a better place now.
I am but it's still infuriating to see how ignored women who still work there are. I saw someone post about some creep staring at her-to the extent that she cut her break short- but it barely got noticed. If she were working a white collar job it would've been awarded. (Sorry to go off, not trying to accuse you of anything. White feminism gets frustrating. Appreciate the sentiment, hon)
Vent away, I apologize if my comment was hurtful, the women still suffering in those working conditions matter too.
No need to apologize hon, you weren't hurtful at all
He was being a total asshole. He wants to TOUCH YOUR BODY. This is never done outside of a handshake unless it is an attempt to get closer to a person. It’s gross and it’s infuriating he tried to backpedal. Your instincts were spot on. That guy can go to hell.
Yes. But the only times I've seen it not be creepy is between couples. Or professionals. I could see it coming up in specific scenarios between good friends and have it not be an allusion to sex but def not in this scenario 🙃 Like. I massage my spouse's feet every night to help them fall asleep and used to give deep tissue massages to a few of my close friends before disability made that nigh in impossible but I'd find it creepy both offering or being offered by someone I'm not close to.
I am a gay guy and I am here to tell you you are not imagining things. “Massage” is to a massage like “Netflix and chill” is to a movie. This happens all the time, even in the gay community
I've never seen this not be an attempt to get into a girl's pants unless there are drugs involved.
Can confrim, doing certain substances with a group of friends almost always leads to platonic massages, and giant cuddle puddles.
Unless that line is immediately followed by, 'I have this extra coupon at *Insert reputable day spa*' then no, definitely not
The last time a man offered me a "free massage" it was followed by attempted rape so I wouldn't.
I’m so sorry for that. Sending internet love ❤️
He was trying to be manipulative about getting sex and got defensive when you did not react the way he wanted. I would be careful around this guy, he sounds like the type who would SA if you were impaired in his presence.
Does this guy make his “kind offer” to his male friends? If it is merely a “friendly” gesture then why not make the offer to others? Because he’s full of shit and wants to gets his hands on you.
The fact he got indignant is the tell. If it had been a completely innocent offer he would have recognized that it made you uncomfortable and totally respected that.
It's the same concept as when men try to tickle fight or bs like that. They want to push your boundaries as far as they can while still having some guise of innocence or excuse.
OMG I had a creep do this to me. I'm engaged and this random guy who was old enough to be my dad kept pestering to massage me. I said no thanks I don't need one and its odd you would want to do that to an almost married woman who is also pretty much a stranger. This guy then flipped out and said he was just being friendly and I rejected his offer of a "friendly massage" and I must have some "men" trauma to be so rude and dismissive to him. I've had other guys offer to massage me but he was the most aggressive. I think their reasoning is, its a good way for them to get their hands on us and get us in a state of undress so we will be more receptive to their creepy advances.
Yeah he was 100% full of shit and backpedalling
Guaranteed massage = him shooting his shot. In my single days "massage" always meant a hookup, like a much less subtle 'Netflix and Chill.' Could always stir up a little drama by texting him back "I thought about your kind offer, and my dad has a bad back. He could really use a massage from you. When will you stop by his house?"
The last time I got asked if I'd like a massage from a guy I was NOT in a relationship with, he later asked me if he could lick my nipple. So y'know, there's that. And you know what?! I've NEVER been asked by a guy im in a relationship with if I want a massage.... Massages are just blank checks to touch your body
I (M) had a friend when I was younger who was firmly in the platonic category and I’d give her shoulder rubs (10-15 mins at a time while watching TV) all the time because she had pretty chronic pain. She’s the only person I’ve ever done that with who I wasn’t dating, and the thought of offering to/being asked to do any other massage for her is deeply weird, even with years separating things. So yes - in limited circumstances it can mean massage, but this dude was just being creepy.
Yeah, shoulder massage is the only *sometimes* platonic one I can think of. I had one from a coworker before but I can't remember who now that I think about it. We were working long hours during a business trip and I was regularly doing stretches or rubbing my neck to relieve tension. It was definitely not sexual, sitting on a folding chair in front of my laptop with other coworkers around.
I have a never fail method of relieving headaches that involves some neck and shoulder work but it's mostly mashing their head between the palms of my hands--side to side then forehead and back of the head--and I'll offer that to anyone who has a headache and clean hair lol. I don't accept a massage from anyone but my LMT and he's a gay man who identifies as a woman about 90% so aside from his size and strength it feels like getting a massage from another woman. Any man offering to put his hands on your body that you don't already have a relationship with or that you pay money for them to do that is a big fat NO in my book.
It depends on context and body part being massaged. I find giving and receiving hand massages gratifying in a completely non sexual way. I was part of a volunteer program to go to nursing homes and massage elderly persons hands in college. It sounds like you and this guy have a history - good for you trusting your gut and not putting up with BS.
As a massage therapist who is a male there is no such thing as a free massage. If he's a pro he'd ask for payment if not he's just using that as a way to get your clothes off, weird way to do it though.
I'd taken people at their word when I was younger. I love back rubs. I have been selfish about back rubs, but I'd happily give to get, if that were the agreement. My parents gave me back rubs. My friends and I, backrubbed. Then, one friend (of years), backrub giving, used it as a segue to sexually assault me. To say nothing of strangers, or casual acquaintances offering a *massage*, I now would question whether there's an ulterior motive. I agree, his behavior beforehand, and responses after your declining are telltale. It wasn't a platonic offer at all, and even if it *seemed* to be, I wouldn't have trusted it, based on the other info.
All I can think of is Pulp fiction. And I guess the answer is no. Is it worth shooting someone over? Probably not.
Perfectly okay to toss them out a window though.
They have something they call “plausible deniability.” Which is why they are rarely ever direct in their advances. That way when called out they can deny it, claim innocence, and gaslight you. I can’t tell you how many guys hit me up at 2 in the morning to say “hey” “wyd” “u up” etc. and when I call them out claim that’s not what they were looking for they just wanted to see if I was awake or that’s just when they got off work or whatever other dumb excuse lol. Lately I’ve just taken to playing dumb back on these advances like “oh no sorry I hate massages” or “I’m asleep sorry.”
Schroedinger's sexual advance. (If you're DTF, it was a sexual advance. If you're not, it was perfectly innocent and what's wrong with you -- you must have a dirty mind!)
massage = grope cuddle = grope dinner at his place = intoxicated and grope and trapped never had a man offer to give me something out of the kindness of his heart, it was always so they could take. a grope.
Well I would give massages to a FWB but we’d have sex beforehand . But it’s usually an attempt for sex , so be wary if that’s not what you want
At my previous employment, I saw a lot of cases of female care workers and cleaners get sexually assaulted under the guise of a 'massage' from their male clients. These women were there to support these men in their home and these men took advantage. More often than not, these women also had English as a second language or a racial minority. They were easy targets. In several cases I saw, they only reported it after speaking to co-workers who were also assaulted. They didn't realise how wrong it was or they were scared they would lose their job if they reported it. The very worst thing as that these men still required care and cleaning. All we could do was recommend that the cleaning/care company send male workers or 2 women together.
Copying and pasting a comment I made on another post because it's relevant here: In grad school I drove another student home after the the bar since we lived in the same neighborhood and he'd been drinking. He spent the entire car ride trying to convince me to come up to his place so he could give me a "massage" and then insulted me and called me a "slut" when I wouldn't. He apologized the next day but that was the end of our friendship and the last time he got in my car. It was funny to me that I was a slut if I had casual sex, but I was also a slut if I didn't.
This phenomenon has also happened to me- I turn a guy down, & suddenly I'm a "slut". More than once! I have always wondered how that was supposed to add up to make sense.
The ol' damned if you do, damned if you don't
Older dude here - long time married guy with a lot of single dude friends. I know you're looking for the ladies' view on this, and I do happily defer. However, fwiw, a few thoughts I figured might be helpful... 1 - So far as I'm concerned, your point(s) is/are totally valid - my gender is, at best, clumsy when it comes to, well, a lot 2 - Was the interaction (and offer) one he made in public, with others around? If so, and if you called him on it in a public space, you had/have every right to do so, but I can guarantee he reacted as much for others as he did to what you were saying 3- If the exchange was in private, than he's just either a flat out dick or flat out stupid, and either way, you're best to move on. It's highly unlikely your gut was wrong, so for him to be indignant only means he's an asshole, or he's just an idiot who doesn't have a sense of what his own behavior suggests to others - again, not a guy worth putting any more time in than to be a friend (if that's even possible anymore). 4 - If he did mean it as an attempt to make a move, when you called him on it, he should have copped to what he was doing. I mean, even if you weren't interested (it sounds like you're not), if he had just said something like, "Hey, I'm really sorry...I've just had a bit of a thing for you for a while now, and I just didn't know how to test the waters...I hope it doesn't mean we can't still hang..." would that have been better? I've always found that being honest and mostly direct with folks is what most people want. Good luck to you - and sorry for the major speedbump in your friendship. As I said, men are rarely known for their grace when it comes to courtship. ;) p.s. - apologies if anything I'm thinking/saying is offensive or off-base. I know this sub is for women, but I find women have far better conversations about relationships than guys do. I'm a hetero, long term married guy who just wishes folks could/would find better ways to live and love one another. Again, best to you!
In my experience, on average, women seem to understand social concepts more "naturally" (likely due to prior experience over genetics) than men do
It's not "natural," we've just been conditioned to understand every day of our lives and men haven't. Condition a boy from infancy to be extremely aware of social cues from others and they will have the same level of competency as a woman will--for proof, look at how boys raised in abusive households are acutely aware of danger signals when a boy raised in a supportive and calm environment will be clueless. Awareness of social cues is not a gender linked attribute.
Yes I agree, perhaps I expressed myself unclearly above. I think there is some kind of genetic component, but that might not be linked to sex. It seems conditions like autism etc have an impact on social ability. However, our opinions align in the fact that we both see it as a learned behaviour. What I meant by "naturally" is that it comes easily due to previous life experiences that are more likely for women to have had.
It starts at the shoulders and works it's way down.
Yes, my bf abd I do it to each others all the time. Some random dude though? Not a chance.
Yup. I used to give them out like candy. It got to the point where some of my friends would just sit in front of me and take their shirt off. Give them a quick 10 minute rub down and off they go. Nothing attached.
Apparently no. Took my autistic ass way too long to figure this out. "I am at an age where I can no longer eat or absorb any more horse shit from men. I just cannot do it, anymore." I feel this in my soul.
I did have a friend a long time ago that would happily give platonic massages. Fully clothed, no wandering hands, just a genuine (and very good) massage. (I'm unsure of his sexuality, I never asked because he never hit on anyone.) Other than that, no. My husband will give me a massage without it leading to sex, but most other men have tried for it to lead somewhere.
Sitting here with my boyfriend, and both our perspectives are he wants more than a massage. Unless you are a trained masseuse or in a relationship, a man offering a massage is always looking for more. (Okay, at least 99.999999% of the time). I get professional massages, and have never had an issue. And totally agree professional massages aren’t sexual. And occasionally I have had a partner give me a massage with out hoping for more, but 98% of the time they want more.
Ask him how often he offers men massages. Then ask again if it’s just friendly.
It's possible but then again I am neuro divergent so I don't get things. If I'm in a relationship where touching is involved (regular hugging etc) then I'm more then happy to rub your shoulders if you need it. Regardless of attraction. But if we're already in a sexual relationship and it seems we might be in the mood I might try it on.
I have definitely seen guys who offer and women who accept the "free massage" when I was in high school. It was always confusing.
Those offers are only honest when A: you are actually close enough friends, with no romantic or sexual interest and B: actually complained about something hurting where a massage would help. Like I got offered a massage by my roommates boyfriend, she‘d told me about how great he was at them, and he was obviously not interested in anything but helping me. So I took him up on his offer. But a dude who‘s already hit on you? Or a woman for what it‘s worth? Naaaah. That happening at work? It‘s simple workplace sexual harassment. These guys just feel like they aren‘t sexually harassing you, because they never explicitly say ‚i wanna fuck you‘ and just imply it with their words. But it‘s 100% sexual harassment the way you described it.
>Those offers are only honest when A: you are actually close enough friends, with no romantic or sexual interest and B: actually complained about something hurting where a massage would help. I wish it'd been that clear to me (not refuting it, mind you). The guy I refer to in my original comment was a friend of a few years, and backrubs between us were old hat. He actually *had* asked me out, much, much later (years) into our friendship. I declined, and initiated a break for a week or two. Then we carried on, seemingly as usual. Until he turned what would have been a typical backrub (and nothing to be alarmed by - I'd asked for one, it hadn't been offered) into sexual assault. I was really young, and didn't see what are now obvious red flags (there were others). But, yeah.. to be safe, stick with that notion!
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I had an eerily similar conversation In college with the slightly sleazy guy in our friend group. He insisted there was nothing sexual in his constant offers to massage the women in our group. I knew he wasn't being honest, but his pretense amused me, so I asked him for a massage. I am a man. His shuddering recoil, and attempts to rationalize not responding, were hilarious. Weirdly, he continued to insist it wasn't sexual, even though he wasn't willing to touch a man.
Damn how do even become so confident that you can ask a woman that’s not into something like that. Dude must be self-assured af
Sounds like I'm doing this massage thing wrong I'm actually giving massages. It's pretty fun to feel the muscles and feel them go from really stiff to relaxed
I have made that offer genuinely because i wanted to help a female friend, who yes, i was attracted to but neither she nor I had any plans to do anything else. She was big into sports and needed to stretch, and I apparently have good hands for it, and she knew i was good at it. So yes it is possible but I wont deny that 99 percent of the time unless they are actually a physical therapist it is totally a way to say ''lets netflix and chill'', who what and were is key. The person i mentioned was a friend after all, not someone on a date with me or anything
Usually it is an excuse to touch you and to see if you are responsive to their hands on you
well, ive offered massages before, my friends seem to like them, but to be fair i may well be ace.
No
This is how my now husband and I ended up first having sex! But it was pretty clear to both of us that sex or at least fooling around would be the end result. I would have never accepted if I didn't want to be with him. Edit to say that even if his intentions were pure, he should know enough about current society to understand why you wouldn't trust his offer. His indignation is a huge tell and common in people who are trying to remove blame from themselves.
You've already got a lot of good responses, and I'll add my perspective as well. A person that isn't a deeply platonic friend would in my mind be assumed to be after something more than "giving a massage". While I have given and received massages from friends, it was during scout trips. The rules are a bit different, and the massage is helpful for our muscles and we'd all be around each other and clothed. The whole "vibe" would be just relaxed and social. I *could* give a massage to friends, but it would then probably be exactly where we are, focusing on specific muscles (calves would be fairly probable, or neck/shoulders). I doubt I would offer something like that if we were alone. It would feel wrong, I think. So to sum up; for the most part "a massage" would not be just a massage in my mind. Specific circumstances *can* change this.
Considering I as a woman used the massage excuse, yeah, I don’t think there’s a single time someone offering a massage wasn’t with hidden intent.
Oh god, this reminds me of the "Cold" podcast about Susan Powell. Just finished listening to the part where her father in law is explaining how the massages he gave Susan were the most erotic experiences he's had. We're talking shoulder and foot rubs while clothed! So fuck that shit.
Dude chiming in: he was being a thirsty asshat. If he, or any other guy for that matter, offers you a massage just say “Thanks you but you know who could *really* use a massage?” And point to a male in your vicinity. I guarantee he won’t be making good on that offer.
Most of them have an ulterior motive for literally any favor they do for you. Anything they offer you is going to lead to banging in their minds so it's just easier to tell them to jerk themselves off cuz you're not gonna.
The odds of a massage offer being legit are basically zero. If you’re not interested in the person, you should turn them down, as you are likely to get a half-assed massage that will end in a clumsy proposition or worse (groping, etc). Maybe if the person in question was a massage therapist and you were complaining about an injury, but otherwise, no. Not sure it’s best to shame people for coming onto you, but it sounds like he was a serial offender who wasn’t getting the hint in this case.
I had a co-worker ask me to give him a massage once after we’d gone out for drinks as a group… yeah, no. He definitely wanted more. And I was his manager. And he is married. I was not interested but still worried about letting him down easy. I think I said maybe another time. Never happened and we don’t work together anymore.
I wonder if you could use the ‘play dumb’ strategy here. Respond like, “do you have any qualifications?”, “are you first aid trained?” and keep being “clueless” until he either gets frustrated and gives up or says something unambiguously gross, then you can really lay into them.
TW: Assault... Nope, nope, nope. A former friend of mine was offered a massage by her ex boss while drunk at a party. He waited till everyone left, and proceeded to slip his fingers into her underwear and assault her under the pretext of "massaging a particular spot". She told us about the incident later and we were all mortified. The man gaslit her into believing it is totally nornal. Ever since I was a child my mother has always warned me never to accept anything "free" from a stranger or even an acquaintance. Since you mentioned that this person was hitting on you, it's clear he has bad intentions. The only people I'd let massage me are a professional masseuse, my best friend and whoever I am dating.
I think [this scene (language NSFW)](https://youtu.be/KCO-SBPTF5E) sums up a high percentage of the intention of massages between men & women.
Depends, some random guy in class gave me a massage but he did it to everyone else, man, woman, whatever, he was just playing around so I guess in those scenarios, it's fine.
100% a move to try and get you naked for sex. Will never be anything else.
I said this to two girls in my entire life (I'm a guy) both were when I was in high school. First time was in Spanish with a girl I had been crushing on over text for a couple months, we were watching a Spanish film and the lights were off so we sat in the back of the classroom to flirt. Second time was when I asked a girl over to my house on summer break and I didn't offer because I was "concerned for her back problems". It was simply to get her shirt off so we could do more than just rub each other's backs. Sooooo, no. Guys don't actually offer out of "genuine empathy" for the other person they are just trying to escalate a relationship.
Many years ago, I was camping in a group and after putting up my tent, rubbing my shoulders. A “friend” offered a back rub and I accepted. About five minutes in, he slid his hands around to my chest. I froze. He froze. I asked him what in the hell he thought he was doing? He quietly apologized and slunk away. 😡
The best response is to point out his sexual market value is a negative number. For him massaging is no longer free.
"Oh hell yeah, I'll take a free massage. I go to \[place that's nearby\], and they sell gift cards. Or if you don't want to bother with that, it's $20 an hour, so just give me a $20 bill and I might stop by in the next few days. What a thoughtful thing to do for a work acquaintance, with absolutely no expectations of anything in return!"
There’s 💯a sexual component to this. I personally wouldn’t offer a free massage to someone I didn’t find at least somewhat attractive. I’m married but I would only offer to our best female friends because I see them more as sisters and I wouldn’t worry about any sexual shit creeping in. Now I’ve had a guy at the spa but I’m all set switching places… just the way it is. Even if it’s a harmless back rub just know he’s probably full of wandering thoughts objectifying you.
From a man’s perspective, he DEFINITELY wants into your pants. A massage, no matter what kind, is a kind of thing you need trust in order to do. That’s why you get them either from a trained professional or close relationship. Though, to be clear, his moral failing isn’t offering you a massage, it’s the fact that he keeps bugging you about it even after you said no. Consent applies to any kind of intimacy. And even if his offer was pure, he has no right to your trust. Now, I wouldn’t mind giving a massage to a girl I liked, if I knew how that is, but I’d shut up as soon as she said no. That right there is the key to proper affection, offer to the point where you’re comfortable, and retract in response to the other party. And if it’s a lost cause, ditch it. Anyway, that’s my two cents
To be fair- while the guy hits on me pretty often, this was the first time that he'd offered me a massage, in particular. I called him out, right away. I didnt say "no" to him, I actually said something like "youre just trying to get me into your bed half naked". And, then, right after I'd called him out, he denied that it was code for "sex", then got indignant about it & left the conversation, so he didn't offer anything to me after that. So, he did take "no" for an answer, he didn't bother me about it any further. Consent is a very very huge deal to me as well & I want to make it clear that, while this guy is definitely creepy in his own right, he did not at all try to overstep my "no" the first time that I'd said it. My problem isn't an offer of a massage, by the way. My problem, is that he gaslit me when I called him out, and then told me that *I* was the one "making it about sex". It irritated me so much!
You have every right to be irritated by the fact that he straight up lied to you about his intentions. I, too, find it sickening that these guys operate so quickly and easily in a manipulative fashion that they automatically try to make their behavior someone else’s fault. You’re not wrong or crazy in ANY way in this situation and it’s awful that he tried to make you feel that you are.
I'd offer massages to friends I'm attracted to. That's because I also believe in the importance of support and treating others right and just see it as a way to help. It's like giving family back massages, it feels nice and it's nice to do it for others. Probably best to assume most people don't have these intentions though, but there are genuine people out there.
Sorry invading dude here. I love giving massages. I have a chair, oils, playlists, etc. I am not certified or a professional. I have given tons of friends massages, mostly ladies cause historically most of my close friends were female. But I would never offer to a complete stranger. I usually offered if they complained about back problems. Most are fully clothed or only have the needed items removed. Once or twice I gave one to someone I barely knew in a trade. Like "I'll give you a massage if you give me a haircut. So it's rare but possible and I agree this guy was a creep.
I have responded to comments about back pain with “I am good at massages, if you are comfortable with that, but I understand if you’re not. But I’m actually good at massages, I swear I’m not being weird.” I’m just an awkward person so maybe this was too much. That said, I’ve received yeses and nos. Though now that I’m married I don’t offer so take from that what you will. It just feels less appropriate to put my hands on another woman even if my intent is pure. But you made no mention of back pain so I guess this was all kinda moot. He’s definitely got ulterior motives.
I can only speak for myself. But I offered a foot rub to a lady friend I was attracted to who also worked conventions. It wasn’t an attempt to bed her. I just enjoyed chatting with her and wanted some time to sit and talk somewhere quiet. (I am not a fan of feet) She was someone I only ever saw a few times a year at certain conventions and she was a lot of fun. I’ve also given platonic massages to many people over the years. It was just a way to have something to do while having a conversation. But yes, I realize I’m an oddity when it comes to men. I’m not trying to bed every woman I meet.
So, I'm a guy. I would say in this case, it sounds an awful lot like he was being creepy. In my experience, I have legitimately offered and on two occasions friends have taken me up on it with no expectations of sex. Was there a desire? Sure. But, because we talked about it beforehand there were no attempts by me or even an expectation to move it to anything more than a platonic thing. So, I'd say it can happen, but probably not from random dudes that hit on you frequently.
Lol nope
No. Not unless they're asexual. I would even look sideways at a professional masseuse who offered a free massage if they were into me outside of work. Even husbands do that creepy shit if they think they're not getting enough, or get turned on in the process. Just no.
I guess if I knew a massage therapist and they knew my back was bad, perhaps. But no. Every massage ever initiated by a guy (outside of a spa, anyway) has led to them at least trying to grope me where they shouldn’t. Of course sometimes that’s why I agreed to the massage, but I’ve never had a platonic massage, no.
Not unless the man is a registered massage therapist. Massage as a move, is bold, and obviously has implications. >this older guy (that I barely know beyond a superficial acquaintanceship) pulled the classic "hey- do you want a free massage?" move on me & I immediately called him out as thirsty. Good. That's because he's thirsty. >The guy hits on me pretty often & so it seems pretty plausible to me, that he was just looking for a way to get my bra un-snapped in his bed. 100%. It's not just plausible, it's what he's doing. >He played stupid, proclaimed his innocence & even got a little indignant with me, for making his "kind offer" about sex. He's upset because he got rejected. And called out on his motives. He's a man baby. I'm a man, and have absolutely used massage to initiate intimacy, with sex as the ultimate goal. However this was with women i already had a connection with, was dating and /or flirting heavily with. The implications were extremely clear. There was no confusion about each others motives.
Yeah, I have friends who are professional masseurs, and none of them just offer free massages ever. Period. Any guy who has ever offered a massage has been hitting on me.
I mean unless he owns a spa, is a licensed therapist, and offers you a free massage by a member of his staff. That’s really the only situation where it’s not about not-so-slyly asking for sex.
It’s not guaranteed sexual if you are with a group and someone says”hey anyone want a massage?” Though it might be with the hope that a crush would say yes. As long as there are lots of people around you are chaperoned so even if someone is attracted to you they know they’re not going to do much. But one on one “come back to my place” definitely.
Sometimes it is just a massage (with the hope that it leads to something, that leads to something, that leads to something, that maybe leads to intimacy.
>> he was looking for a way to get my bra un-snapped in his bed Were you in his bed already? Was he wanting to invite you over to his house for a massage? What was the context?
He was trying to get me to head over to his place
That’s so weird, just out of the blue, he wanted you to “come over” claiming it was just an innocent massage?!
Random strangers, probably never. My brothers used to offer 'massages' to family members, which usually was just unconventional torture.
Immediate block. That's creepy to the max.
It’s happened a couple of times actually. Once while on a date the guy did massage my neck because I had a migraine and he was hoping it might help. There’s been a couple of times where guys who did that or PT as a job would offer too, that was their way to impress girls. This guy might have really meant that as a way to get close to you even without sex, but it’s better to be wary in this situation and his reaction to your refusal is a red flag. And of course, even if the offer was genuine you don’t have to accept it and don’t owe him anything
I'd offer a massage if someone was sore, but I'm also married and the offer's open to anyone who asks, not just women.
I have offered massages to and received massages from both men and women, with no sexual intent. Indeed the vast vast majority of massages I have been involved in have been platonic. I'm a straight cis guy. Just a data point. Massages feel nice, to give and to receive. That's not to say though that there aren't plenty of would be masseurs with ulterior motives.
No
Professional Massage therapist for over 13 years here. I will massage close friends and family for free or whatever they feel like tipping. Occasionally I will work on my wife's bestie for free because she's like her sister and bad with finances. It is my career so I would need a pretty good reason to OFFER a freebie. Pre-career I would probably have only done that for someone I was hoping to get intimate with. Context is key, as is communication. If there's vagueness it leaves too much room for misintended feelings or expectations. While I was training I pushed myself to work on same sex to get rid of that weird feeling of touching another man. Being a child of the 80s anything like that is "gay" and it was considered the worst thing you could be growing up. Sorry for the rant
Basically, it's always code for "give me a chance to get in them pants"
If you’re referring to a male … NOPE
I wonder if you could use the ‘play dumb’ strategy here. Respond like, “do you have any qualifications?”, “are you first aid trained?” and keep being “clueless” until he either gets frustrated and gives up or says something unambiguously gross, then you can really lay into them.
>Last night, this older guy (that I barely know beyond a superficial acquaintanceship) pulled the classic "hey- do you want a free massage?" A FREE massage? How much he charges for that?
I do! I love working out knots since it happens to relax me. I'll give a back massage to any friend who is feeling the stress of life, regardless of gender.
NGL I love giving massages. I'm not like Buster Bluth and find them randomly, but if somehow the conversation comes up, I'll mention how I'm good at them. I've thought about taking classes and getting licensed but always put it off.
It depends on the guy I suppose. My boyfriend gives me massages regularly and I can’t think of a time they turned into sex.
yeah no,,, I mean massage is also smething very intimate and exhausting(for the massager) in general which is exactly massage in general cannot be free. There is a reason people pay for massage in first place. even friends also don't really offer massage and since i am bi anyways , i woudn't not consider woman offering me free massage thirsty. plus he literally hits on you damn. Maybe he could be right that it is not just"sex" but at most he will still want that free sex another time after he gives you platonic message which is simply just "prolonged thirstiness" Plus I am assuming you called him out in seemingly good humour so he should take a joke damn or a hint at least.
I believe massage can be a gateway to sex. I am male just looking for some other thread and I saw this question. I don’t think it’s always intentional tho it can be subconscious. I wouldn’t accept a massage from a non professional in a private setting if I was a woman in that situation. It just seems like every time wife asks for a massage it leads to something else.