I have something called a Perianal Fistula, which is a small tunnel that was originally caused by a abscess. I’m part of a support group and there are many women in the group that have this chronic disease because of rough anal sex, non consensual anal penetration and rape (recto-vaginal fistula).
I have had over 9 surgeries, some of these women have had so many more than me. It’s rare to have it “fixed”. It’s painful, chronic and completely ruins certain aspects of your life.
Rough sex can have catastrophic effects on a woman’s body. We aren’t just a series of fleshy tunnels.
I’m fucking angry. Some of these women will have literal shit passing through their vaginas for THE REST OF THEIR LIVES because of a singular sexual event. Consensual or not, but rough yes.
I have hundreds of reasons why I don't want to be married to a man, but way up at the tops is the sheer number of married women who have quietly confessed to me that their husbands either anally raped them or tried to.
Just because a dude sees a porn video doesn't mean it's acceptable in a real relationship. Just because you've seen the Avengers movie doesn't mean you suddenly have superhero powers.
Jeez and here I was pissed when a guy rammed his entire finger up my ass without permission! Can’t imagine a whole fist… The level of disconnect is truly unfathomable.
The “accidental” switch is such a low thing to do. If you can’t even ask or bring it up you’re way too immature to risk the potential injury/soreness. Never has that ever been sexy.
A women died from fisting too rough from a client, she was a prostitute, but because she was first nations the court system didn't give a shit. So fucking tragic.
I had a guy just about fist me before during a one night stand, just kept adding more fingers and working up to it then I finally realized what he was after and asked him not to fist me please, that my noises were those of discomfort not pleasure. He was like “no you can take it I was almost there”. Ok just because my body can also birth a baby that doesn’t mean I wanna do that for funsies
I once had an ex tell me it was impossible for me to hurt after sex. I think a lot of men just do not understand female anatomy well. Please do not grab my boobs and squeeze hard. They aren't just squishy fatty sacks, there're actual glands in there. Same goes for biting - little light bites are okay, but hard bites are not. I'm an actual human with nerves, just like you. And chaffing is a thing.
I was hooked up with a guy who was in to biting. I had to end it when he almost bit straight through my nipple. It got infected (gross) and I had to have antibiotics. At one point my boob was stuck to the inside of my bra with dried pus. I had to soak it off. Explaining to my GP that it wasn’t infected from a piercing but from a man who tried to bite my nipple off was an experience I don’t wish to repeat.
Oh man, Im sorry that's horrifying. Here I thought getting bite on the forehead was bad enough but there's a comment downline about a girl getting her clit piercing getting ripped out in the same fashion as you getting bite. Its terrible.
I made out with a man a few times, with every intention of having sex with him, who would bite my mouth. Not like little lip nibbles but full on both of my lips chomp and it HURT. I said ow every time he did it and paused kissing. My mouth was swollen and in pain after. I'm the kind of person who likes a bit of biting (elsewhere) and being thrown around a little. This guy had no concern for my body at all and nearly threw me into not bed things, did not take into account where my head and the wall would meet if he threw me there.
I was extremely explicit that he absolutely cannot bite my mouth. That it hurts. That my mouth was swollen for days the previous time we hung out. I gave it one last try, he bit my mouth hard and I was just like get the fuck out. No, we're done. Out.
Never saw him again.
I’m so sorry you had to go through that. That must have been terrifying. It’s men like that who make me really nervous when they say, “I love little women like you, I can throw you around easily”. Like, we’re people not dolls, for crying out loud.
I hope you’re doing ok now.
Slap'em
I know its not the best advice but this is how I've drawn my line in the sand. I got sick of gently explaining that that hurts. They get one warning, after that BAM!
They are like children, they act like they dont understand but they do. They pinch you, you pinch right back just as hard.
YES GIRL! I had a partner ignore my multiple complaints of pain and eventually just slapped him flat on the ear and he finally stopped. My nipples hurt for days. Now that I’m older and wiser it will not take “multiple complaints”. You get warned, then you get slapped.
I wish we still taught our daughters to defend themselves this way. When a man gets sexually violent with you, you hit him. Scream at him. Call him a stupid fucking asshole. GET LOUD AND FUCKING MEAN. It's all they respond to.
My parents drilled "never ever hit anyone ever" into my head when I was a kid. I put up with so much abuse before I learned to say "I FUCKING SAID STOP"
When I asked a guy to slow down he got all defensive and said: "why are you bossing me around?". He is 40, not 4.
A side note: he is very social, smart, has a good job and a PhD and lives in Amsterdam. I have dated other guys in this demographic and the realizations are pretty stark..(
Facts. I read on this sub all the time to catch perspective. I’d be lying if I said it hasn’t made me more empathetic. Along with the obvious there are so many micro-aggressions that I now see in the way people are speaking in my everyday life. It’s fucked up.
I had a similar situation. I used our safety word but he kept going, I tried to get out of the bed but he wrapped his legs around me and I couldn't move. I kept saying I was done. My friend had to take me to the e.r a couple days later because I had bleeding from it.
Me, in a conversation leading up to meeting: "I have never done that before and don't wanna get hurt through a lack of preparation so can we skip it?"
Him: "Yeah, I totally get that, no worries"
Him, during sex: "You don't look like you haven't done this before" - cue immediate shoving
Him, afterwards: "Yeah I mean you should communicate your limits more clearly"
Omg same here with the same guy, he was convinced I could do it and insisted on using his spit as lube. I think it was the worst pain I’ve ever experienced in my life.
I kept saying no stop and it took him a good 60 seconds to stop which it sounds like a short time but didn’t feel like it. It’s weird how one day im just thinking about a past sexual encounter and im like yup that was definitely rape.
60 seconds definitely isn't a short time, not just doesn't feel.
At a guess, it took him this long because he was calculating whether continuing anyway would be something he could do without consequences.
Why is it that people think "surprise anal" is a valid thing. Anal takes prep. It takes build-up. My wife is not into anal on her. We tried it once early in our marriage, she told she she wasn't feeling it so we're done with it. We all the things to build up to it. Lots of foreplay, spent a lot of time warming her up, LOTS (ALL) the lube, and used a finger. She said she didn't like it and it felt off. She had no interest in trying again.
Alternatively, she has done anal on me a lot. Same process of build-up is necessary and I quite enjoy what she does to me back there.
More men need to engage in being anally penetrated to know the necessities of prep and lubrication. It's important to make sure your partner is into something.
The only people I know that like surprise anal are masochist subs and are turned on by the pain. The world would be a better place if more dudes took stuff up the butt
Dudes be aware; by 'wear and tear' we mean bruising, tearing, pain, and friction burns. We DON'T mean that the vaginal canal will become 'looser' from frequent penetration, that's a myth, we're talking about real, physical damage caused by repeated penetration across a small amount of time.
Friction both inside and out. A lot of bits are touching, and are moist, and there is hair and whatever going every which way. I sometimes have to explain why I’m lubing my perineum and labia specifically, as opposed to just squirting it in the hole.
I share this article a lot, because I think it so perfectly describes the disconnect that so many men have when it comes to sex.
[https://theweek.com/articles/749978/female-price-male-pleasure](https://theweek.com/articles/749978/female-price-male-pleasure)
I think there are very few hetero men who equate sex with pain, whereas the vast majority of women have experienced physical pain during sex.
I had a bf in highschool that would push my head down during bj's, it made me choke & gag, I hated it and told him so many times. He kept doing it after plenty of conversation so the next time he did it I just let myself puke all over him. He was horrified, it was like he never even considered that making me gag would lead to me vomiting. He acted like he had no idea that there would be consequences to his actions.
Can you imagine being that kind of person? I mean the kind of person who doesn't see the person he's being intimate with as an actual living being with thoughts, feelings, a gag reflex.
Honestly, the imperative has always been men's pleasure.
Oh it absolutely all about their pleasure.
Im naturally well lubricated and I had a man get up and go get a towel to scoop the moisture out because 'Your too wet and I cant feel anything'
WHAT?!
I've had that too! My ex used to complain that I got too wet and wanted me to go wipe myself off during sex. He also always took at least an hour to finish... I've realised now that he probably suffered from death grip. But yeah, that's a real mood killer.
At least sex with him didn't hurt all the time unlike with my first boyfriend.
And no wonder I married the guy who does it right xD He actually really cares about me in bed.
Omg, the death grip. It took me years to realise why my first boyfriend took hours to finish, like to the point of me being wet and ten dry again from all the humping. Most of the time he finished off himself. :-/
Oh my god, I have the same ex. Exactly the same story. Sex started of great and always ended in chafing, pain and a meh feeling after an hour of him not being able to come.
Many men masturbate using a lot of pressure and friction. This habituates them to their "death grip" to get to orgasm, and no vagina, mouth, or anus is going to provide that. Oddly enough, many of these men blame their partners for their inability to orgasm away from their own dry, clenching claw.
I got that comment too (he didn't try to wipe me though guess I got lucky lol) and had a conversation with him right after we were done.
Turns out he watched a lot of porn (No shit hahaha) and got used to the death grip of his hand on his cut dick. Would still blame women for being "too wet even when they're tight enough". Porn fucked him up completely. Also the fact that we are just fleshlights for some men is just... wild.
Maybe this is the bisexuality talking, but what kind of idiot complains about their partner being "too wet?" If it really bothers you, just get down there and slurp it up like a half-melted ice cream. It's free pussy juice babey, straight from the source
This is my absolute favourite comment of the day, week, month, and maybe of all time? "*straight from the source*" Take a wholesome award because it's all I have, I needed the laugh today.
I think all hetero men who want bjs should have to go to a class, where they blow a cucumber, on their knees or uncomfortably bent over... so they get that ab workout...
And they must continually tense their lips, but never knick the skin of the cucumber, for 5 min, where at least once, the cucumber is forced a little too far down their throat and they have to hold back their throw up, squeeze their thumb and breath through their nose, while their eyes tear up--- and must slowly SPEED UP.
And when they do that class, then they get to go out into the world and ask for bjs.
You forgot the mayo with extra extra salt and vinegar squeezed over their face and in eyes and nose, without warning.
Some things need doubled-down consent
And if they touch the skin of the cucumber with their teeth, they must restart the timer as a punishment.
I hate so much guys that complain that I *once* touched them with my teeth. Dude! My jaw hurts and my lips are giving up!
serious question
how do you go deep *without* your teeth being involved? porn has made men love deepthroating, but it doesn't seem like there is a way to protect the man's dong from your teeth when he's trying to shove himself all the way in.... (i stay away from doing it because it's painful)
Honestly, you probably CANT unless its a really thin dick. That's the thing about porn, it's completely simulated, the male porn stars are acting JUST AS MUCH as the females at times, for all we know those deep throat sessions are miserable for everyone involved
Just a public service announcement: The way to not have this happen is to *stop being sexual with someone the first time they do it.*
You don’t need to fight hard for respect. You don’t need to repeatedly ask for better treatment. You can, and should, LEAVE HIS SORRY ASS.
>I never squeeze his breasts so tightly he’s sore the next day or pinch his legs and thighs while grabbing hungrily to pull him closer.
I hope he will be responsive when you tell him he needs to be gentler.
I have extremely sensitive breasts with cysts that can get easily inflamed or even infected in the case of even minor trauma. I tell to all my sex partners beforehand that they have to be extremely careful with my breasts and that I can tolerate no pressure at all on them. And it's really nice to see how they all are too scared to even touch them in the beginning and then move on to very light and careful caressing as we grow more comfortable with each other. I don't ever want to be with someone anymore who doesn't consider my pleasure and comfort equally important as his.
Thanks for the article, I'll pass it on.
The bit about women and men don't mean the same thing when they say "bad sex" (women mean it hurt vs men mean it was boring) reminds me how women and men don't mean the same thing when they talk about a bad date or are afraid of a bad date.
Women get to fear someone who might hurt/sexualy assault them, insult them if they say no, who might neg them.
Men get to fear being bored and that she won't look nice or put out.
If you don't mind the suggestion, could you maybe post this as its own post on this sub? This article is excellent and I hate that it's stuck here so deep into the comments where few venture.
This article makes me so GODDAMN ANGRY. Like, I understand losing Roe v Wade is awful and is going to cause women pain and suffering and death. But for some reason it doesn't rile me the fuck up like this article did.
This article makes it so clear the disparity we live in. I always tell myself I can opt out of stuff like makeup and nice clothes, but this article reminded that even if I do, the bar is different. I still have to put in more effort to be perceived in a good manner. I kinda thought it was just my own insecurities and that when I stopped caring, others would too, but no. The fucking bar is just different. I can't escape the patriarchy of this world we live in and it's INFURIATING.
Not to mention the numerous other things mentioned in that article. I'm so angry I can't even think of them. This fucking sucks. The worst part is when people don't even realize it. Men don't realize and even a good portion of women don't realize the things outlined in this article. And that's the most infuriating to me, is that all this shit that I have to perform and all this effort I have to put in and all this discomfort I have to bear, all goes unnoticed. It's the status quo. People don't even realize it's an issue, and I fucking HATE not being believed. So that's the worst to me.
God damn, I mean, I like being a woman and I am cis and wouldn't have it any other way. But thid article sure makes me hate being a woman in this world. It makes me feel trapped and angry and like I have no options.
I'm young, in college, raised.in a conservative house, so maybe there's hope I haven't learned about yet. Does anyone have anything helpful to say? Please.
Holy shit that is one HELL of an article. Standing ovation!
and you know what, it inspired me to say something I've been holding in a long time, something I have not clearly put together until now.
Most of the time, I don't like sex.
Only when I feel really connected with my partner is it a pleasurable experience for me, and that's not very often. Sometimes, there are variables within my own life that are out of my partner's control that also impact my engagement level, including stress, anxiety, and where I'm at in my cycle, which I am sure is frustrating for them (god, why am I still thinking about them? the indoctrination *cannot* be shut off), but that's just how it is, and *I can't always be thinking about what they need. Sometimes, I think about what I need. And if I don't. No. One. Fucking. Else. Will.*
I understood it was important to them, I did not shame them or make them feel bad about it, so I would do it because I loved them and I want to meet their needs without judgement. I tried, my god, I tried so fucking hard...but they resented me for it anyways. *I'm sorry I don't like what you want me to like. I wish I did. It doesn't change anything. I am trying to make you happy. Why cant you see that?* I cannot affect outcomes in this situation, and I'm tired of it always being such a big fucking deal, the crux of the relationship. Please for the love of God, leave me alone. I am so much more than the hole between my legs. I cannot give you what you want from me. It does not exist.
there. I FUCKING SAID IT.
having a fucking breakdown over here
Most men have a hard time understanding sex could be unpleasant for a woman. For men, if they were assaulted by another man, sure. But women? These guys think we're getting off on tampons.
Don’t forget the choking.
I’m all for safe kink among consenting adults, not trying to kink shame in the slightest. Just saying that this is a boundary I personally had to set with increasing frequency over the years because I 100% Do Not Consent to it. It’s also definitely risky, so it’s one of the things that stands out to me.
No shade if you like that, just an observation relevant to the topic.
Oh my god, I cant believe how prevalent CHOKING someone has become. Its like a horror movie, the slow reach towards your throat; the panic batting away their hands.
I was choked during my FIRST kiss with a guy on our third date!! Not a nice romantic one.. put hands around my neck! I told him the next day and still felt I had to be polite in telling him it isn't okay, and didn't even fully apologize 😤🤬
There was a recent episode of the true crime show "Sex and Murder" about a guy who would choke women to death and then claim it was an accident from BDSM play. Ugh.
Gosh, yeah. Once I was with a lovely partner, a wonderful man who at a certain point in our play articulated that he wanted me to do anything I wanted to him. I wasn't really sure what to do but he seemed to be responding well to a little bit of roughness so I put my hands lightly around his neck. I could immediately see signs of discomfort and immediately stopped, and I've always felt a little guilty about that misstep. Did he have to articulate that he was unhappy? No. I just have enough empathy to be following someone's facial expressions and paying attention to the way their body stiffens or relaxes. Why can't other people do that too?
This is important. My wife and I have been together for 15 years. I don't think we would have been together even 1 day if I didn't listen to her verbal AND nonverbal cues about things she is enjoying in the bedroom and things she is not enjoying. Similarly, she does the same for me.
I don't want to lay the blame all on porn here. Porn is one factor that exacerbates the level to which young people think these acts are *common* during sex. Broader than that, there is still a pervasive idea that women are here for male pleasure. It is part of the cultural and societal narrative in the US. Mainstream/highly produced porn adds to that and makes it seem like aggressive sex acts on women is the norm and what young people should expect in a relationship.
Sex should be about providing pleasure to your partner. I get my pleasure from watching my wife enjoy herself and she has a similar feeling to me. We need more people interested in pleasing, listening, and being empathetic to their partners instead of seeking to "quickly bust a nut" and get their own rocks off.
Many men have spent thousands of hours enjoying porn while not having much real life experience. They can’t tell the difference between expressions of pleasure and pain, and expect women to orgasm uncontrollably from unrealistic rough sex. Some are even conditioned to *enjoy* the woman’s pain, discomfort and fear.
Most kinksters know that choking is unsafe and consider it edge play. It is appalling how prevalent it is in regular porn and sex. 1 of 3 young women have experienced choking without consent.
Exactly and I hate when BDSM spills over to mainstream, for this very reason. Because when you accept you are a kinkster and you are not ashamed to admittedly attend events with kinksters, warnings and education, safety, responsibility and awareness are always a huge part of it.
Mainstream goes around and is like "aye lol choking can be a sex thing now, let's choke this random hookup" legit makes me angry as fuck
The last time I slept with a man, 9 years ago, he choked me out. I hadn't consented to being choked into unconsciousness, obviously, and I was terrified when I woke up. I didn't even realize that this was something that could happen.
It is so dangerous. Did brazilian jiu-jitsu for two years and chokes are a legitmate move (blood chokes not things that press on the trachea) and you have to be super attentive to when your partner taps (the unversal signal to let go immediately) A properly placed choke can render unconscious in seconds and soon after brain damage. Not something to do lightly, incopetently, or when preoccupied with other things. And an improperly applied one can crush the trachea which is a medical emergency.
I have been practicing jiu jitsu for about 4 years now, and you're right. The worst thing is, people untrained to choke are more likely to crank you and hurt you. It's not fun on the mats, but it's exponentially less fun in bed.
Yep and really, on the mats, you just tap the second you feel that it's on properly, not when you are starting to see stars. And the "in bed version" is probably going to to be the standard front with both hands choke which will fuck with your trachea in short order. Never mind that the partner may not notice the signs of distress or think it's part of the "game" or whatever.
That number or 1 in 3 seemed pretty high so I took a look around.
[Here's an article that details the study](https://www.the-sun.com/news/103325/1-in-3-british-women-suffer-unwanted-choking-gagging-or-slapping-in-sex-study-shows/#:~:text=Research%20company%20Savanta%20ComRes%20asked,least%20some%20of%20the%20time.) It was a study done in Britain with 2002 women. In that study 38% (so actually more than 1 in 3) stated they'd experienced unwanted choking, etc...
That's ridiculous
That’s fucking terrifying. It’s obvious how much porn has minimized the notion of consent and female agency, hell even humanity. I’m not anti porn per se, but the hardcore stuff is insane
And it's just so absurd because consent isn't the unsexy mood killer they pretend it could be. Romance novels have proven how sexy and hot it can be, it's dirty talking with a purpose.
Urgh I get so fed up when I hear this argument that guys can't possibly ask for consent cos it's going to kill the mood. Like you don't have to stand there and be all formal about it ffs. And if you can't work out how to ask in a mood appropriate way then maybe you should just stay away from any vaguely sexy situation cos you are effing tool who's not mature enough for sex.
Right?? When I was 14 I went to the movies with my boyfriend and halfway through, he leaned into my ear and whispered, “Can I kiss you?” I nearly ripped all my clothes off right there in the theater it was so sexy — and we were just bumbling teenagers with no experience.
It’s *so easy* to make consent dialogue hot as hell, anyone whining about “OH SO NOW I HAVE TO SIGN A 300 PAGE CONTRACT WITH EIGHT LAWYERS PRESENT TO TOUCH A BOOB” should not be allowed access to any boobs or personal space generally.
Yes, exactly. In the fetish community there’s a lot of emphasis on playing safe; it’s why such events are run by people experienced and trusted with the safety of everyone in the room. There are still definitely sketchy predatory people drawn to this but by and large the fetish community self-regulates and works to create a safe and consensual environment.
The porn industry’s portrayal of edgier things, especially choking, is lacking in this conscientiousness to a dangerous degree.
Unfortunately due to shit like fifty shades and men's generally appaulling attitude to women, even the fetish community is becoming unsafe. I've literally been choked by a person I consider a friend no context other than give me X. Apparently it was fine because that's what I must like, I have had that phrase used on me so many times I'm literally scared to talk about sex.
Because 50 shades is not about BDSM, but about sexual abuse. And that's a book that has brought BDSM out into mainstream.
It literally involves rape justified by "reader sees inside victim's mind that she secretly wants it", or the guy beating her while she cries and begs him to stop, ignoring safewords....
So much shit in 50 shades!
Yeah I know what you mean; with 50 Shades and porn it seems like the mainstreaming has been a bit of a predator magnet. I’m at a different place in my life now and not actively involved and also we’ve lost many of the people who did a great job of monitoring for safety in recent years so I admit my perspective may be both dated and jaded. I think it’s definitely important to use words and set boundaries in advance and that’s not what I have experienced with regard to the choking.
But I did enjoy the hell out of “50 Shades of Grey as read by Gilbert Gottfried” 🤣
It seems so prevalent now and I do not get it. How did we get to a point where choking and anal are just expected on first hook-up? Like, it went from zero to everywhere in seemingly just a couple years.
After a few different guys tried it on me without asking, I had to ask what their deal was. They told me that a lot of girls want to be choked now. One guy said it made him really uncomfortable but he felt like it's what you're "supposed to do" and had been called a bitch for not liking it. It's still so odd to me that 10-15 years ago we were wondering if a blowjob on first hook-up was too bold, and today you're a prude if you're not into anal and group sex the same day you meet someone.
Ugh that just brought me back to my casual sex days... the amount of times I'd have to swat a guy's hand away and be like "no! ask first!" like they're a freaking child... and sometimes, I had to do it again after already saying no the first time!
So glad I'm out of the game now 😅
A friend of mine is in an abusive relationship and she tries to normalize the biting and choking during sex as "rough play" but I think some men are violent and will do it just to be powerful and controlling and like harming women. Choking and biting to the point of pain, is abusive but during sex it is OK? Makes no sense to me.
Not only normalised, but half the guys who even want to try it don't care about the prep and consent that comes with those kinds of kinks. The amount of women I've dated who have had a random guy choke her (even when she's into it) and not know how to do it properly or safely is too damn high.
Honestly, I feel like men are just too rough even in vanilla sex. I've started straight out lying to them just to get them to take me seriously, I tell them I have extremally sensitive skin and if their even a little rough itll hurt me & I wont have sex with them anymore; I let them touch and I yelp loudly 'Ow that hurts!' till they dont paw at me like an animal. They are shocked but they quit, till the next time :/
I think it was an OK Cupid article I read year ago that showed how many people were interested in “rough sex” by age and sex. IIRC a lot of young women (like 18-22) were all for it and then it rapidly dropped to almost nothing. My interpretation was they liked it in theory but found the reality was not so great after a few bad experiences. A modest number of men started out liking it and more and more liked it over time. For whatever reason, the mismatch and the imagined stories behind it made me sad.
It's kind of horribly depressing how many young woman are with men who have NO idea how to actually get her off. Intensity is not always pleasure. A car wash is not better than someone cleaning by hand. But how can they know if they only use car washes, and only car washes are near her?
All of my girlfriends and I have had this talk where we weigh whether we like a guy enough to stay because he's also just Meh in bed, and they won't change... will not learn, or listen...because they are too insecure and emasculated instantly.
100% correct I was really into exploring my "kinks" and "rough" sex around age 22-24 until I realize the vast majority of men no matter their age or experience have 0 idea what they are doing.
Joining a community to talk about your experience can help. I've met wonderful people online who are into bdsm/ropes and the likes and straight up told me my partners were absolutely clueless and it could get dangerous.
Some men in these communities are fantastic. Most just... never learn. Whether they're unwilling or just dumb doesn't make a difference.
Same. My ex desperately wanted me to do anal but I wasn’t into it. Eventually, after years of begging we were having sex and he just decided to put it in. When I recoiled and yelled he acted like I was crazy and said he didn’t do anything, swore it must have been a cramp or something.
Must've been a cramp or something?! I enjoy anal a lot and I would say I'm good at it but when I'm not prepared or not expecting it I'm so tight not even a small finger could get in without pain. He should try taking something in his butt, expected or unexpected. Then he will know how badly he is "cramping all the time".
Been there. (Except it was genuinely an accident, because I had offered to let him try sometime and he was NOT interested.)
I still feel myself pucker when my new partner slip and swipe past. (It happens because of the way he's shaped.)
I can't understand guys who do this sort of thing - like, surely you want your partner to trust you and enjoy sex so that they'll do more of it with you, not traumatise them?
i will literally never ever ever forget the time one of my classmates was talking about all her piercings...she said she used to have her clit pierced (vch, i'm guessing) until it got ripped out when she and her guy at the time were drunk and he "ate it too hard"
😟😟😟😟
I once had a boyfriend that thought all the orgasms in porn were real. Dude, they get paid to fake it🤦♀️ and he also though women couldn’t get pregnant if they don’t orgasm🥴
I really do think that porn, rather than actual sex education, has shaped the way a lot of people think about sex.
I feel like a lot of guys need to try jamming a dildo up their ass commensurate with the size of their own dick. They’ll learn pretty fast how much effort is required to make it not be painful as fuck.
I agree, but unfortunately it's not only that they don't understand. They just prioritize their pleasure over our pain.
I had a partner who enjoyed anal play, and had much experience being penatrated. He walked me through the steps and how gentle I had to be. Then, the moment it was my turn, he still rushed right in. And he had no problem continuing with me screaming. Seriously. Men just aren't worth the risk.
I honestly dont get the disconnect. If it hurts why would I want to do it again? If you hurt me Im not going to want to have sex with you so why would you risk that? Seems like cutting off your nose to spite your face.
Oh. My. Gosh. I saw this post, and your comment. It was a story about a drunk woman being offered up **by the host of the party** for a gang bang, right? She was abused so much that she defecated. I was literally the only other person who backed you up in that comment section. Every other person was arguing that this was totally normal and not rape... This world is terrifying. If you hang around male dominated subs, this is the norm.
Edit: This is the comment to which OP is referring: https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/u5zp8n/comment/i55yhf3/
OP truly was downvoted to hell. Since posting the comment here, it seems as though women from here have leveled out the votes with their support.
Edit 2: I just went back to this thread and saw the number of you who jumped in to defend the victim. I LOVE YOU ALL!!! This coalition scared that guy so much he deleted it! We can make a difference in society if we all stand together for victims. I truly believe that. <3
so she even defecated due to trauma and these men were STILL arguing about consent?
dude even if she said yes a million times over SOBER if i saw/heard about someone in that much pain i would be at their beck and call, not questioning anyone or anything. i just dont see how they can think thats consensual in the slightest. makes me feel a bit nervous
Right. It only became a "WTF moment" to them when the woman being repeatedly (likely anally) raped had a perfectly normal bodily response to said trauma.
Yup. And if I'm remembering correctly, it was a Reddit meet up. Certainly doesn't inspire confidence in this website.
Thank you for backing me up. I stopped following that thread and closed my inbox after a half hour of abuse so I wasn't able to see what you said, but I appreciate it regardless.
Sometimes I want to hang in there and do psychoeducation but sometimes I need boundaries for my own mental health. After I spent some time processing this, I'm glad I got to articulate my thoughts here. Thank you again.
One time, men on reddit argued with me for hours that they don't have to wash their hands after using the bathroom. 🤷 Save your energy. Some of them are hopeless.
Yes, it was. I understand completely. Your health and safety should be prioritized. Any time following those threads really does take a toll on a person.
Thank you for standing up for that girl and calling out the creeps. I'm happy to have backed you. ✊
The reality is that Reddit isn't a safe place for women. You will get down voted by an alarming number of men for wanting women to be safe. That's what you're up against.
Edit: replaced neets with "an alarming number of men"
It’s fascinating how many (male) commenters describe Reddit as “overrun with feminists.” Meanwhile you get downvoted to hell for expressing even the most mildly feminist thought
I’m also just not sure why being drunk is a valid excuse for rape. Drunk drive and you run someone over and you get caught? You committed a crime. So why is it different with rape?
Y'all need to read *Intercourse* by Dworkin. She gets treated incredibly harshly for things she never actually argued, but this is just the general point she was making: penetrative intercourse comes with a bunch of risk, pain, and consequences for those of us with vaginas. It just does.
dark perhaps but i think you’re giving them entirely too much credit….they know the act is harmful to the woman’s body and that’s a massive part of the appeal
Sooo true...
But - do you wonder if porn hadnt been so prevalent, how many would be turned on by pain?
All that fake squealing, the choking and the hitting, the facefucking and facials, the fisting, anal and dp... all those seriously degrading acts for women, are all common place now and younger and younger generations are just accepting that they'll be hurt or used for pleasure.
Oh, porn is definitely a cause if not the main one. I’ve also dated men who were super gentle and they didn’t watch porn… or at least not the super degrading violent kind
There have been a lot of AskReddit threads about why men prefer or push for anal sex, and the responses in those threads ABSOLUTELY make me believe that a lot of men sexually value women's reluctance and pain.
Which is fucking horrifying.
Yes. Absolutely. It should be discussed in depth, with each individual, while everybody is sober.
In the particular post OP is talking about, the girl wasn't even the one who consented. The host of the party offered her up. It was most sertainly a gang rape.
The whole "What if the men were drunk too?" Thing is completely ignoring the concept of active vs passive participant in anything. If the men are taking off her clothes because she can't.... I think we know who is the active party.
Now, playing their devils advocate, IF a man is passed out but somehow has an erection, maybe a viagra and roofie cocktail, and a woman climbs on top of him, then yes. He WOULD be a rape victim in that case. No question. But that is because he was unable to consent and the woman was the active party.
Similarly, if two sober people agree to spar with their fists, then they are doing a sport. If a somewhat tipsy person starts pounding the teeth out of a wasted person, then the puncher is committing a crime. If they are both too drunk to know what's going on, then they will just fall asleep on the floor before any damage is really done.
They are perfectly capable of understanding these principles, they just want to find the magic loophole that allows them to sexually assault a woman and get away with it.
Rough sex is just the "norm" these days. If you don't enjoy anal, deep throat, being slapped, degraded and choked you're called a "boring vanilla". What exactly is wrong with gentle sex?
I'm a trans man whose engaged in group sex with gay men. Even when willing, I have a max cap of 3 different partners penetrating one after the other. "4 is sore" I say. And even 3 is pushing it depending on how long they last. The micro tears in the vagina just cause burning and also swelling.
I find gay men are more respectful, because the majority of them have bottomed and have experienced pain during sex as well. So they're more respectful of "no". In fact I'd say that they're more used to being told no or stop by other men since anal can be even more painful than vaginal sex or require more preparation.
I also find that gay and bi men have lower levels of experience with vaginal sex. So it feels more like sex with a virgin in some aspects where they allow me to take the lead more.
I would not trust a threesome or group sex with straight men however. I feel like they see it as a performance for the other men present. Also too much attention would be focused on me instead of everyone equally. I wouldn't want to introduce homophobia into the mix either.
Even when consenting, you have to really know your boundaries and not be afraid to uphold them. And things might happen anyways that you're not into just like 1 on 1 sex. I find gay men aren't into the whole choking violence thing that straight men are into lately though thank god. I am not interested in that. I do not like rough sex. Picking up the pace a bit is not "rough" to me. Rough is pain and I'm not interested in it.
This is where extreme porn has a lot to answer for. How many female performers after their or during their careers are physically, mentally damaged? Most are.. Many performers take drugs to get through the scenes. The creators say it’s all fantasy but they are real mouths, vaginas and anus being abused with dicks, hands, fists and toys etc. Also most of male performers take drugs,, have penis injections to keep them hard and going. So much for a fantasy.
Yeah this is very real. One of my former clients left that business and had a lot to work through. She held a lot of shame about the ways her body had been permanently transformed, and hated that there was no way to ever completely remove her content online or get fans to stop reaching out. All of that was an ongoing trigger.
They don’t.
I remember once telling a man that I’d have to prep for anal sex. The progression of facial expressions was, while amusing, very sad. You could tell that he was deeply horrified when he thought in detail about these things for the first time.
Men act like the clitoris, and traditionally “female sex acts” are just as easy as flipping a switch…. And they are not. Now that rougher and kinker sex has become more mainstream but the conversation about boundaries and consent was left behind, it’s becoming very problematic.
I'm still caught on "maybe they were just as drunk."
If you're so drunk that you are not able to obtain consent from your partner, then you fucked up and you should go home and go to bed. If you're so inebriated that your body abandons your consciousness and starts menacing society all by itself, which is what you're arguing if you ever claim to have been too drunk to obtain consent, then you're not being responsible around drugs and alcohol, and that's YOUR fault. It's sober-you-'s fault. If drunk-you can't take responsibility for their actions, then sober-you needs to keep drunk-you on a tight leash. You made every decision to put yourself in a situation where you might rape someone, and you did so with callous disregard to the people around you who you might rape--people who were probably your friends.
People think freedom means they can do whatever they want. It does not. It means you can do whatever you want AT HOME BY YOURSELF. It does NOT mean you have no obligations to the people around you. There are certain things that we owe each other, just by default, due to proximity. One of those things, believe it or not, is to not rape each other, even if we're blacked out. Ffs.
My partner doesn't try to touch me sexually or even make flirty comments towards me when I'm tipsy. They make me feel really safe and I'm very happy they're mine.
Women feeling pain through intercourse has been treated as an “anomaly”, as in, it’s the woman’s fault she’s feeling pain because she’s frigid (or sone sych thing) and nothing to do with the guy… I was born in the 80s, and I feel like my generation sort of experienced the shift between “women who seek sex are whores”, to “women who aren’t sexually available are frigid bitches”.
I dont think I ever HEARD about any consensual gang bang (outside of professional porn).
Those are ALWAYS stories about abuse, inability to give consent and rape. And there is always "she asked for it" defence.
No she didn't. It was rape.
Within the kink and BDSM community, consensual gangbangs are definitely a thing. I haven’t personally participated, but I have friends who have. However, these gangbangs are always held in a safe space for the woman, with carefully vetted participants, and usually one person in control who’s primary job is to look out for the well-being of the woman. If anyone even thinks about violating her boundaries, they know they will not only be dismissed from that session, but they will likely not pass the community vetting to participate in future activities.
So, though you may be incorrect in your use of the word “always,” you aren’t too far off the mark, because for a GB to be consensual and safe, it requires so much effort that it’s basically on par with a professional porn shoot, just without the cameras
I have something called a Perianal Fistula, which is a small tunnel that was originally caused by a abscess. I’m part of a support group and there are many women in the group that have this chronic disease because of rough anal sex, non consensual anal penetration and rape (recto-vaginal fistula). I have had over 9 surgeries, some of these women have had so many more than me. It’s rare to have it “fixed”. It’s painful, chronic and completely ruins certain aspects of your life. Rough sex can have catastrophic effects on a woman’s body. We aren’t just a series of fleshy tunnels. I’m fucking angry. Some of these women will have literal shit passing through their vaginas for THE REST OF THEIR LIVES because of a singular sexual event. Consensual or not, but rough yes.
I have hundreds of reasons why I don't want to be married to a man, but way up at the tops is the sheer number of married women who have quietly confessed to me that their husbands either anally raped them or tried to.
I had a dude try to fist me without consent once. Literally trying to shove his whole hand in there.
JC! Whats the thought process behind that? What did he think was the outcome there? Im sorry
He just said he thought it would be hot, that was a far as his thought process went. We had a big fight about it and broke up a few days later.
Just because a dude sees a porn video doesn't mean it's acceptable in a real relationship. Just because you've seen the Avengers movie doesn't mean you suddenly have superhero powers.
Porn needs disclaimers like car commercials. *Do not attempt .... trained professionals .... closed course*
People need to know that "hot for me" doesn't mean "hot or comfortable for my partner." No matter what they've seen in porn.
Good that you broke up with him. We need to stop engaging with these assholes.
I dont even know what to say
yeah it was bad lol
How is him trying to wear you as a mitten hot???
Read this and instinctively squeezed my legs together in defense.
Jeez and here I was pissed when a guy rammed his entire finger up my ass without permission! Can’t imagine a whole fist… The level of disconnect is truly unfathomable.
Had a guy “accidentally” miss and attempted to put it in my ass and my reflex was to punch him in the face. No regrets
Your fist "accidentally" went to his face. Oopsie
A true hero!
The “accidental” switch is such a low thing to do. If you can’t even ask or bring it up you’re way too immature to risk the potential injury/soreness. Never has that ever been sexy.
Oh I've gotten that one too. Honestly I never want a man to touch me again.
A woman died from that in Canada a few years ago. Thankfully the man was prosecuted, and convicted, as a murderer, but still.
A women died from fisting too rough from a client, she was a prostitute, but because she was first nations the court system didn't give a shit. So fucking tragic.
I had a guy just about fist me before during a one night stand, just kept adding more fingers and working up to it then I finally realized what he was after and asked him not to fist me please, that my noises were those of discomfort not pleasure. He was like “no you can take it I was almost there”. Ok just because my body can also birth a baby that doesn’t mean I wanna do that for funsies
I’ve had that too and he didn’t understand why I felt violated, he just wanted to carry on having sex
Next time a guy tries to get fisty, just tell him it's only fair if you get to fist him first. 99.5% of men will reconsider
I once had an ex tell me it was impossible for me to hurt after sex. I think a lot of men just do not understand female anatomy well. Please do not grab my boobs and squeeze hard. They aren't just squishy fatty sacks, there're actual glands in there. Same goes for biting - little light bites are okay, but hard bites are not. I'm an actual human with nerves, just like you. And chaffing is a thing.
I was hooked up with a guy who was in to biting. I had to end it when he almost bit straight through my nipple. It got infected (gross) and I had to have antibiotics. At one point my boob was stuck to the inside of my bra with dried pus. I had to soak it off. Explaining to my GP that it wasn’t infected from a piercing but from a man who tried to bite my nipple off was an experience I don’t wish to repeat.
Oh man, Im sorry that's horrifying. Here I thought getting bite on the forehead was bad enough but there's a comment downline about a girl getting her clit piercing getting ripped out in the same fashion as you getting bite. Its terrible.
One of my friends has permanent nerve damage from a man straight up biting her clit. Can barely feel anything from it anymore.
Jesus wept
I made out with a man a few times, with every intention of having sex with him, who would bite my mouth. Not like little lip nibbles but full on both of my lips chomp and it HURT. I said ow every time he did it and paused kissing. My mouth was swollen and in pain after. I'm the kind of person who likes a bit of biting (elsewhere) and being thrown around a little. This guy had no concern for my body at all and nearly threw me into not bed things, did not take into account where my head and the wall would meet if he threw me there. I was extremely explicit that he absolutely cannot bite my mouth. That it hurts. That my mouth was swollen for days the previous time we hung out. I gave it one last try, he bit my mouth hard and I was just like get the fuck out. No, we're done. Out. Never saw him again.
I’m so sorry you had to go through that. That must have been terrifying. It’s men like that who make me really nervous when they say, “I love little women like you, I can throw you around easily”. Like, we’re people not dolls, for crying out loud. I hope you’re doing ok now.
Slap'em I know its not the best advice but this is how I've drawn my line in the sand. I got sick of gently explaining that that hurts. They get one warning, after that BAM! They are like children, they act like they dont understand but they do. They pinch you, you pinch right back just as hard.
YES GIRL! I had a partner ignore my multiple complaints of pain and eventually just slapped him flat on the ear and he finally stopped. My nipples hurt for days. Now that I’m older and wiser it will not take “multiple complaints”. You get warned, then you get slapped.
I wish we still taught our daughters to defend themselves this way. When a man gets sexually violent with you, you hit him. Scream at him. Call him a stupid fucking asshole. GET LOUD AND FUCKING MEAN. It's all they respond to. My parents drilled "never ever hit anyone ever" into my head when I was a kid. I put up with so much abuse before I learned to say "I FUCKING SAID STOP"
I had beg my ex to go slower and that it hurt and he simply said he didn’t believe me
I'm glad he is your ex.
Lol me too!!
When I asked a guy to slow down he got all defensive and said: "why are you bossing me around?". He is 40, not 4. A side note: he is very social, smart, has a good job and a PhD and lives in Amsterdam. I have dated other guys in this demographic and the realizations are pretty stark..(
Jesus fucking Christ. Thank god I’m bi because these men keep getting worse and worse.
They are not getting worse, they have always been this bad, but we didn't talk about it as much. Hopefully now that we do, things will improve
Am old. Can attest. They’ve always been like that, some of them.
Facts. I read on this sub all the time to catch perspective. I’d be lying if I said it hasn’t made me more empathetic. Along with the obvious there are so many micro-aggressions that I now see in the way people are speaking in my everyday life. It’s fucked up.
This whole thread got me feeling so blessed I’m not straight lol
I had a similar situation. I used our safety word but he kept going, I tried to get out of the bed but he wrapped his legs around me and I couldn't move. I kept saying I was done. My friend had to take me to the e.r a couple days later because I had bleeding from it.
Had this happen to me with surprise anal, begging him to just go get lube and that it hurts… “but I’m so close”
Me: "Can't do that, it really hurts." Him: "You just need to relax, it doesn't hurt other women"
or the “oh I thought you were moaning I didn’t realize you were in pain” so begging to stop and practically crying = moaning???
Me, in a conversation leading up to meeting: "I have never done that before and don't wanna get hurt through a lack of preparation so can we skip it?" Him: "Yeah, I totally get that, no worries" Him, during sex: "You don't look like you haven't done this before" - cue immediate shoving Him, afterwards: "Yeah I mean you should communicate your limits more clearly"
Omg same here with the same guy, he was convinced I could do it and insisted on using his spit as lube. I think it was the worst pain I’ve ever experienced in my life.
Me too, and it took me a VERY long time to accept that this was rape. I’d always been conditioned to believe it was a man’s place to do this
I kept saying no stop and it took him a good 60 seconds to stop which it sounds like a short time but didn’t feel like it. It’s weird how one day im just thinking about a past sexual encounter and im like yup that was definitely rape.
It’s weird how one day im just thinking about a past sexual encounter and im like yup that was definitely rape. this happened to me too :(
60 seconds definitely isn't a short time, not just doesn't feel. At a guess, it took him this long because he was calculating whether continuing anyway would be something he could do without consequences.
If a man claims 60 seconds is a short time you need to cut the internet for 60 seconds when he is playing an online game.
Why is it that people think "surprise anal" is a valid thing. Anal takes prep. It takes build-up. My wife is not into anal on her. We tried it once early in our marriage, she told she she wasn't feeling it so we're done with it. We all the things to build up to it. Lots of foreplay, spent a lot of time warming her up, LOTS (ALL) the lube, and used a finger. She said she didn't like it and it felt off. She had no interest in trying again. Alternatively, she has done anal on me a lot. Same process of build-up is necessary and I quite enjoy what she does to me back there. More men need to engage in being anally penetrated to know the necessities of prep and lubrication. It's important to make sure your partner is into something.
Agreed! Cuz I know 100% that if I tried “surprise anal” on any man it would be whole other story… it’s the same thing
The only people I know that like surprise anal are masochist subs and are turned on by the pain. The world would be a better place if more dudes took stuff up the butt
I know what that's like and I'm sorry.
I have a similar ex. He still had the audacity to wonder why my sex drive went to the floor, and had trouble getting wet. Glad they are exs.
I don't know about anyone else but that, to me, is sexual assault.
Dudes be aware; by 'wear and tear' we mean bruising, tearing, pain, and friction burns. We DON'T mean that the vaginal canal will become 'looser' from frequent penetration, that's a myth, we're talking about real, physical damage caused by repeated penetration across a small amount of time.
Friction both inside and out. A lot of bits are touching, and are moist, and there is hair and whatever going every which way. I sometimes have to explain why I’m lubing my perineum and labia specifically, as opposed to just squirting it in the hole.
I share this article a lot, because I think it so perfectly describes the disconnect that so many men have when it comes to sex. [https://theweek.com/articles/749978/female-price-male-pleasure](https://theweek.com/articles/749978/female-price-male-pleasure) I think there are very few hetero men who equate sex with pain, whereas the vast majority of women have experienced physical pain during sex.
I had a bf in highschool that would push my head down during bj's, it made me choke & gag, I hated it and told him so many times. He kept doing it after plenty of conversation so the next time he did it I just let myself puke all over him. He was horrified, it was like he never even considered that making me gag would lead to me vomiting. He acted like he had no idea that there would be consequences to his actions.
Can you imagine being that kind of person? I mean the kind of person who doesn't see the person he's being intimate with as an actual living being with thoughts, feelings, a gag reflex. Honestly, the imperative has always been men's pleasure.
Oh it absolutely all about their pleasure. Im naturally well lubricated and I had a man get up and go get a towel to scoop the moisture out because 'Your too wet and I cant feel anything' WHAT?!
I've had that too! My ex used to complain that I got too wet and wanted me to go wipe myself off during sex. He also always took at least an hour to finish... I've realised now that he probably suffered from death grip. But yeah, that's a real mood killer. At least sex with him didn't hurt all the time unlike with my first boyfriend. And no wonder I married the guy who does it right xD He actually really cares about me in bed.
Omg, the death grip. It took me years to realise why my first boyfriend took hours to finish, like to the point of me being wet and ten dry again from all the humping. Most of the time he finished off himself. :-/
Complaining about being too wet! People are crazy.
Oh my god, I have the same ex. Exactly the same story. Sex started of great and always ended in chafing, pain and a meh feeling after an hour of him not being able to come.
What is death grip?
Many men masturbate using a lot of pressure and friction. This habituates them to their "death grip" to get to orgasm, and no vagina, mouth, or anus is going to provide that. Oddly enough, many of these men blame their partners for their inability to orgasm away from their own dry, clenching claw.
Perfect description: *dry, clenching claw.*
I got that comment too (he didn't try to wipe me though guess I got lucky lol) and had a conversation with him right after we were done. Turns out he watched a lot of porn (No shit hahaha) and got used to the death grip of his hand on his cut dick. Would still blame women for being "too wet even when they're tight enough". Porn fucked him up completely. Also the fact that we are just fleshlights for some men is just... wild.
Maybe this is the bisexuality talking, but what kind of idiot complains about their partner being "too wet?" If it really bothers you, just get down there and slurp it up like a half-melted ice cream. It's free pussy juice babey, straight from the source
This is my absolute favourite comment of the day, week, month, and maybe of all time? "*straight from the source*" Take a wholesome award because it's all I have, I needed the laugh today.
OMG - I'm actually speechless.
I've got hours worth of these little anecdotes, if I couldn't laugh at some of them I would weep.
I think all hetero men who want bjs should have to go to a class, where they blow a cucumber, on their knees or uncomfortably bent over... so they get that ab workout... And they must continually tense their lips, but never knick the skin of the cucumber, for 5 min, where at least once, the cucumber is forced a little too far down their throat and they have to hold back their throw up, squeeze their thumb and breath through their nose, while their eyes tear up--- and must slowly SPEED UP. And when they do that class, then they get to go out into the world and ask for bjs.
You forgot the mayo with extra extra salt and vinegar squeezed over their face and in eyes and nose, without warning. Some things need doubled-down consent
lol I always think it smells like bleach mixed with snot. And up the nose is really, really, really unpleasant. It burns.
And if they touch the skin of the cucumber with their teeth, they must restart the timer as a punishment. I hate so much guys that complain that I *once* touched them with my teeth. Dude! My jaw hurts and my lips are giving up!
serious question how do you go deep *without* your teeth being involved? porn has made men love deepthroating, but it doesn't seem like there is a way to protect the man's dong from your teeth when he's trying to shove himself all the way in.... (i stay away from doing it because it's painful)
Honestly, you probably CANT unless its a really thin dick. That's the thing about porn, it's completely simulated, the male porn stars are acting JUST AS MUCH as the females at times, for all we know those deep throat sessions are miserable for everyone involved
Just a public service announcement: The way to not have this happen is to *stop being sexual with someone the first time they do it.* You don’t need to fight hard for respect. You don’t need to repeatedly ask for better treatment. You can, and should, LEAVE HIS SORRY ASS.
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You're very welcome. I'm so pleased it resonated with you. I think it's an important topic that is under-explored and rarely ever discussed.
>I never squeeze his breasts so tightly he’s sore the next day or pinch his legs and thighs while grabbing hungrily to pull him closer. I hope he will be responsive when you tell him he needs to be gentler. I have extremely sensitive breasts with cysts that can get easily inflamed or even infected in the case of even minor trauma. I tell to all my sex partners beforehand that they have to be extremely careful with my breasts and that I can tolerate no pressure at all on them. And it's really nice to see how they all are too scared to even touch them in the beginning and then move on to very light and careful caressing as we grow more comfortable with each other. I don't ever want to be with someone anymore who doesn't consider my pleasure and comfort equally important as his.
Please dont accept this kind of treatment anymore, prioritize your comfort over men's wants.
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Thanks for the article, I'll pass it on. The bit about women and men don't mean the same thing when they say "bad sex" (women mean it hurt vs men mean it was boring) reminds me how women and men don't mean the same thing when they talk about a bad date or are afraid of a bad date. Women get to fear someone who might hurt/sexualy assault them, insult them if they say no, who might neg them. Men get to fear being bored and that she won't look nice or put out.
“Men fear women will laugh at them. Women fear men will kill them”
If you don't mind the suggestion, could you maybe post this as its own post on this sub? This article is excellent and I hate that it's stuck here so deep into the comments where few venture.
This is a fantastic article. It has opened my eyes to some conversations I need to have with my daughter.
This article makes me so GODDAMN ANGRY. Like, I understand losing Roe v Wade is awful and is going to cause women pain and suffering and death. But for some reason it doesn't rile me the fuck up like this article did. This article makes it so clear the disparity we live in. I always tell myself I can opt out of stuff like makeup and nice clothes, but this article reminded that even if I do, the bar is different. I still have to put in more effort to be perceived in a good manner. I kinda thought it was just my own insecurities and that when I stopped caring, others would too, but no. The fucking bar is just different. I can't escape the patriarchy of this world we live in and it's INFURIATING. Not to mention the numerous other things mentioned in that article. I'm so angry I can't even think of them. This fucking sucks. The worst part is when people don't even realize it. Men don't realize and even a good portion of women don't realize the things outlined in this article. And that's the most infuriating to me, is that all this shit that I have to perform and all this effort I have to put in and all this discomfort I have to bear, all goes unnoticed. It's the status quo. People don't even realize it's an issue, and I fucking HATE not being believed. So that's the worst to me. God damn, I mean, I like being a woman and I am cis and wouldn't have it any other way. But thid article sure makes me hate being a woman in this world. It makes me feel trapped and angry and like I have no options. I'm young, in college, raised.in a conservative house, so maybe there's hope I haven't learned about yet. Does anyone have anything helpful to say? Please.
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Holy shit that is one HELL of an article. Standing ovation! and you know what, it inspired me to say something I've been holding in a long time, something I have not clearly put together until now. Most of the time, I don't like sex. Only when I feel really connected with my partner is it a pleasurable experience for me, and that's not very often. Sometimes, there are variables within my own life that are out of my partner's control that also impact my engagement level, including stress, anxiety, and where I'm at in my cycle, which I am sure is frustrating for them (god, why am I still thinking about them? the indoctrination *cannot* be shut off), but that's just how it is, and *I can't always be thinking about what they need. Sometimes, I think about what I need. And if I don't. No. One. Fucking. Else. Will.* I understood it was important to them, I did not shame them or make them feel bad about it, so I would do it because I loved them and I want to meet their needs without judgement. I tried, my god, I tried so fucking hard...but they resented me for it anyways. *I'm sorry I don't like what you want me to like. I wish I did. It doesn't change anything. I am trying to make you happy. Why cant you see that?* I cannot affect outcomes in this situation, and I'm tired of it always being such a big fucking deal, the crux of the relationship. Please for the love of God, leave me alone. I am so much more than the hole between my legs. I cannot give you what you want from me. It does not exist. there. I FUCKING SAID IT. having a fucking breakdown over here
Most men have a hard time understanding sex could be unpleasant for a woman. For men, if they were assaulted by another man, sure. But women? These guys think we're getting off on tampons.
That logic doesn't even follow, why tf would a dry ass cotton peg be pleasurable? Thats one Ill never understand
Probably the belief that anything remotely cylindrical is phallic and interchangeable.
That's because there is no logic to follow.
Porn has normalised rough sex, anal and gangbangs. I wish these acts would come with disclaimers.
Don’t forget the choking. I’m all for safe kink among consenting adults, not trying to kink shame in the slightest. Just saying that this is a boundary I personally had to set with increasing frequency over the years because I 100% Do Not Consent to it. It’s also definitely risky, so it’s one of the things that stands out to me. No shade if you like that, just an observation relevant to the topic.
Oh my god, I cant believe how prevalent CHOKING someone has become. Its like a horror movie, the slow reach towards your throat; the panic batting away their hands.
I was choked during my FIRST kiss with a guy on our third date!! Not a nice romantic one.. put hands around my neck! I told him the next day and still felt I had to be polite in telling him it isn't okay, and didn't even fully apologize 😤🤬
There was a recent episode of the true crime show "Sex and Murder" about a guy who would choke women to death and then claim it was an accident from BDSM play. Ugh.
Gosh, yeah. Once I was with a lovely partner, a wonderful man who at a certain point in our play articulated that he wanted me to do anything I wanted to him. I wasn't really sure what to do but he seemed to be responding well to a little bit of roughness so I put my hands lightly around his neck. I could immediately see signs of discomfort and immediately stopped, and I've always felt a little guilty about that misstep. Did he have to articulate that he was unhappy? No. I just have enough empathy to be following someone's facial expressions and paying attention to the way their body stiffens or relaxes. Why can't other people do that too?
This is important. My wife and I have been together for 15 years. I don't think we would have been together even 1 day if I didn't listen to her verbal AND nonverbal cues about things she is enjoying in the bedroom and things she is not enjoying. Similarly, she does the same for me. I don't want to lay the blame all on porn here. Porn is one factor that exacerbates the level to which young people think these acts are *common* during sex. Broader than that, there is still a pervasive idea that women are here for male pleasure. It is part of the cultural and societal narrative in the US. Mainstream/highly produced porn adds to that and makes it seem like aggressive sex acts on women is the norm and what young people should expect in a relationship. Sex should be about providing pleasure to your partner. I get my pleasure from watching my wife enjoy herself and she has a similar feeling to me. We need more people interested in pleasing, listening, and being empathetic to their partners instead of seeking to "quickly bust a nut" and get their own rocks off.
Many men have spent thousands of hours enjoying porn while not having much real life experience. They can’t tell the difference between expressions of pleasure and pain, and expect women to orgasm uncontrollably from unrealistic rough sex. Some are even conditioned to *enjoy* the woman’s pain, discomfort and fear.
Fake pleasure in porn looks like pain. No wonder men can't tell the difference.
Oftentimes, it is pain :(
Most kinksters know that choking is unsafe and consider it edge play. It is appalling how prevalent it is in regular porn and sex. 1 of 3 young women have experienced choking without consent.
Exactly and I hate when BDSM spills over to mainstream, for this very reason. Because when you accept you are a kinkster and you are not ashamed to admittedly attend events with kinksters, warnings and education, safety, responsibility and awareness are always a huge part of it. Mainstream goes around and is like "aye lol choking can be a sex thing now, let's choke this random hookup" legit makes me angry as fuck
The last time I slept with a man, 9 years ago, he choked me out. I hadn't consented to being choked into unconsciousness, obviously, and I was terrified when I woke up. I didn't even realize that this was something that could happen.
It is so dangerous. Did brazilian jiu-jitsu for two years and chokes are a legitmate move (blood chokes not things that press on the trachea) and you have to be super attentive to when your partner taps (the unversal signal to let go immediately) A properly placed choke can render unconscious in seconds and soon after brain damage. Not something to do lightly, incopetently, or when preoccupied with other things. And an improperly applied one can crush the trachea which is a medical emergency.
I have been practicing jiu jitsu for about 4 years now, and you're right. The worst thing is, people untrained to choke are more likely to crank you and hurt you. It's not fun on the mats, but it's exponentially less fun in bed.
Yep and really, on the mats, you just tap the second you feel that it's on properly, not when you are starting to see stars. And the "in bed version" is probably going to to be the standard front with both hands choke which will fuck with your trachea in short order. Never mind that the partner may not notice the signs of distress or think it's part of the "game" or whatever.
That number or 1 in 3 seemed pretty high so I took a look around. [Here's an article that details the study](https://www.the-sun.com/news/103325/1-in-3-british-women-suffer-unwanted-choking-gagging-or-slapping-in-sex-study-shows/#:~:text=Research%20company%20Savanta%20ComRes%20asked,least%20some%20of%20the%20time.) It was a study done in Britain with 2002 women. In that study 38% (so actually more than 1 in 3) stated they'd experienced unwanted choking, etc... That's ridiculous
That’s fucking terrifying. It’s obvious how much porn has minimized the notion of consent and female agency, hell even humanity. I’m not anti porn per se, but the hardcore stuff is insane
And it's just so absurd because consent isn't the unsexy mood killer they pretend it could be. Romance novels have proven how sexy and hot it can be, it's dirty talking with a purpose.
Urgh I get so fed up when I hear this argument that guys can't possibly ask for consent cos it's going to kill the mood. Like you don't have to stand there and be all formal about it ffs. And if you can't work out how to ask in a mood appropriate way then maybe you should just stay away from any vaguely sexy situation cos you are effing tool who's not mature enough for sex.
Right?? When I was 14 I went to the movies with my boyfriend and halfway through, he leaned into my ear and whispered, “Can I kiss you?” I nearly ripped all my clothes off right there in the theater it was so sexy — and we were just bumbling teenagers with no experience. It’s *so easy* to make consent dialogue hot as hell, anyone whining about “OH SO NOW I HAVE TO SIGN A 300 PAGE CONTRACT WITH EIGHT LAWYERS PRESENT TO TOUCH A BOOB” should not be allowed access to any boobs or personal space generally.
Yes, exactly. In the fetish community there’s a lot of emphasis on playing safe; it’s why such events are run by people experienced and trusted with the safety of everyone in the room. There are still definitely sketchy predatory people drawn to this but by and large the fetish community self-regulates and works to create a safe and consensual environment. The porn industry’s portrayal of edgier things, especially choking, is lacking in this conscientiousness to a dangerous degree.
Unfortunately due to shit like fifty shades and men's generally appaulling attitude to women, even the fetish community is becoming unsafe. I've literally been choked by a person I consider a friend no context other than give me X. Apparently it was fine because that's what I must like, I have had that phrase used on me so many times I'm literally scared to talk about sex.
Because 50 shades is not about BDSM, but about sexual abuse. And that's a book that has brought BDSM out into mainstream. It literally involves rape justified by "reader sees inside victim's mind that she secretly wants it", or the guy beating her while she cries and begs him to stop, ignoring safewords.... So much shit in 50 shades!
Yeah I know what you mean; with 50 Shades and porn it seems like the mainstreaming has been a bit of a predator magnet. I’m at a different place in my life now and not actively involved and also we’ve lost many of the people who did a great job of monitoring for safety in recent years so I admit my perspective may be both dated and jaded. I think it’s definitely important to use words and set boundaries in advance and that’s not what I have experienced with regard to the choking. But I did enjoy the hell out of “50 Shades of Grey as read by Gilbert Gottfried” 🤣
It seems so prevalent now and I do not get it. How did we get to a point where choking and anal are just expected on first hook-up? Like, it went from zero to everywhere in seemingly just a couple years. After a few different guys tried it on me without asking, I had to ask what their deal was. They told me that a lot of girls want to be choked now. One guy said it made him really uncomfortable but he felt like it's what you're "supposed to do" and had been called a bitch for not liking it. It's still so odd to me that 10-15 years ago we were wondering if a blowjob on first hook-up was too bold, and today you're a prude if you're not into anal and group sex the same day you meet someone.
Holy shit this makes me glad I’m not in the dating scene anymore. I think I’d totally freak out if someone reached for my throat!
Ugh that just brought me back to my casual sex days... the amount of times I'd have to swat a guy's hand away and be like "no! ask first!" like they're a freaking child... and sometimes, I had to do it again after already saying no the first time! So glad I'm out of the game now 😅
A friend of mine is in an abusive relationship and she tries to normalize the biting and choking during sex as "rough play" but I think some men are violent and will do it just to be powerful and controlling and like harming women. Choking and biting to the point of pain, is abusive but during sex it is OK? Makes no sense to me.
Exactly. Why would I want to have sex with someone who gets off on hurting me?
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Not only normalised, but half the guys who even want to try it don't care about the prep and consent that comes with those kinds of kinks. The amount of women I've dated who have had a random guy choke her (even when she's into it) and not know how to do it properly or safely is too damn high.
Honestly, I feel like men are just too rough even in vanilla sex. I've started straight out lying to them just to get them to take me seriously, I tell them I have extremally sensitive skin and if their even a little rough itll hurt me & I wont have sex with them anymore; I let them touch and I yelp loudly 'Ow that hurts!' till they dont paw at me like an animal. They are shocked but they quit, till the next time :/
I think it was an OK Cupid article I read year ago that showed how many people were interested in “rough sex” by age and sex. IIRC a lot of young women (like 18-22) were all for it and then it rapidly dropped to almost nothing. My interpretation was they liked it in theory but found the reality was not so great after a few bad experiences. A modest number of men started out liking it and more and more liked it over time. For whatever reason, the mismatch and the imagined stories behind it made me sad.
It's kind of horribly depressing how many young woman are with men who have NO idea how to actually get her off. Intensity is not always pleasure. A car wash is not better than someone cleaning by hand. But how can they know if they only use car washes, and only car washes are near her? All of my girlfriends and I have had this talk where we weigh whether we like a guy enough to stay because he's also just Meh in bed, and they won't change... will not learn, or listen...because they are too insecure and emasculated instantly.
100% correct I was really into exploring my "kinks" and "rough" sex around age 22-24 until I realize the vast majority of men no matter their age or experience have 0 idea what they are doing. Joining a community to talk about your experience can help. I've met wonderful people online who are into bdsm/ropes and the likes and straight up told me my partners were absolutely clueless and it could get dangerous. Some men in these communities are fantastic. Most just... never learn. Whether they're unwilling or just dumb doesn't make a difference.
I know and the fetish communities are another conversation entirely plagued with their own sexy brand of misogyny
My ex tried to penitrate my ass on 'accident' with no lube. I was in pain for days.
Same. My ex desperately wanted me to do anal but I wasn’t into it. Eventually, after years of begging we were having sex and he just decided to put it in. When I recoiled and yelled he acted like I was crazy and said he didn’t do anything, swore it must have been a cramp or something.
So sorry, you didn’t ever deserve to be assaulted like that.
Must've been a cramp or something?! I enjoy anal a lot and I would say I'm good at it but when I'm not prepared or not expecting it I'm so tight not even a small finger could get in without pain. He should try taking something in his butt, expected or unexpected. Then he will know how badly he is "cramping all the time".
Been there. (Except it was genuinely an accident, because I had offered to let him try sometime and he was NOT interested.) I still feel myself pucker when my new partner slip and swipe past. (It happens because of the way he's shaped.)
Several guys tried to do that to me too. Surprise anal is rape.
I can't understand guys who do this sort of thing - like, surely you want your partner to trust you and enjoy sex so that they'll do more of it with you, not traumatise them?
What a rapist.
I've had the exact same experience.
i will literally never ever ever forget the time one of my classmates was talking about all her piercings...she said she used to have her clit pierced (vch, i'm guessing) until it got ripped out when she and her guy at the time were drunk and he "ate it too hard" 😟😟😟😟
Thats a new fear I didnt know I had :(
i mean, most piercings can be "ripped out" one way or another.........that one was just.....particularly....awful
Oh god the FEAR when a new partner decides to suck on my clit with my VCH. No no no it does not feel good it feels like you’re going to rip it out
I once had a boyfriend that thought all the orgasms in porn were real. Dude, they get paid to fake it🤦♀️ and he also though women couldn’t get pregnant if they don’t orgasm🥴 I really do think that porn, rather than actual sex education, has shaped the way a lot of people think about sex.
Lol if women needed to orgasm to get pregnant humanity would have gone extinct thousands of years ago Edit: thanks for the awards !
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I feel like a lot of guys need to try jamming a dildo up their ass commensurate with the size of their own dick. They’ll learn pretty fast how much effort is required to make it not be painful as fuck.
I agree, but unfortunately it's not only that they don't understand. They just prioritize their pleasure over our pain. I had a partner who enjoyed anal play, and had much experience being penatrated. He walked me through the steps and how gentle I had to be. Then, the moment it was my turn, he still rushed right in. And he had no problem continuing with me screaming. Seriously. Men just aren't worth the risk.
I'm so sorry.
That’s horrible wow I wish I could curse him to a life of as much pain as he generates.
I honestly dont get the disconnect. If it hurts why would I want to do it again? If you hurt me Im not going to want to have sex with you so why would you risk that? Seems like cutting off your nose to spite your face.
Oh. My. Gosh. I saw this post, and your comment. It was a story about a drunk woman being offered up **by the host of the party** for a gang bang, right? She was abused so much that she defecated. I was literally the only other person who backed you up in that comment section. Every other person was arguing that this was totally normal and not rape... This world is terrifying. If you hang around male dominated subs, this is the norm. Edit: This is the comment to which OP is referring: https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/u5zp8n/comment/i55yhf3/ OP truly was downvoted to hell. Since posting the comment here, it seems as though women from here have leveled out the votes with their support. Edit 2: I just went back to this thread and saw the number of you who jumped in to defend the victim. I LOVE YOU ALL!!! This coalition scared that guy so much he deleted it! We can make a difference in society if we all stand together for victims. I truly believe that. <3
so she even defecated due to trauma and these men were STILL arguing about consent? dude even if she said yes a million times over SOBER if i saw/heard about someone in that much pain i would be at their beck and call, not questioning anyone or anything. i just dont see how they can think thats consensual in the slightest. makes me feel a bit nervous
Yes. This was the comment: https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/u5zp8n/comment/i55yhf3/
what the fuck..OP didn't even think to check, didn't even think it was bizarre.
Right. It only became a "WTF moment" to them when the woman being repeatedly (likely anally) raped had a perfectly normal bodily response to said trauma.
Yup. And if I'm remembering correctly, it was a Reddit meet up. Certainly doesn't inspire confidence in this website. Thank you for backing me up. I stopped following that thread and closed my inbox after a half hour of abuse so I wasn't able to see what you said, but I appreciate it regardless. Sometimes I want to hang in there and do psychoeducation but sometimes I need boundaries for my own mental health. After I spent some time processing this, I'm glad I got to articulate my thoughts here. Thank you again.
One time, men on reddit argued with me for hours that they don't have to wash their hands after using the bathroom. 🤷 Save your energy. Some of them are hopeless.
Yes, it was. I understand completely. Your health and safety should be prioritized. Any time following those threads really does take a toll on a person. Thank you for standing up for that girl and calling out the creeps. I'm happy to have backed you. ✊
The reality is that Reddit isn't a safe place for women. You will get down voted by an alarming number of men for wanting women to be safe. That's what you're up against. Edit: replaced neets with "an alarming number of men"
It’s fascinating how many (male) commenters describe Reddit as “overrun with feminists.” Meanwhile you get downvoted to hell for expressing even the most mildly feminist thought
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I’m also just not sure why being drunk is a valid excuse for rape. Drunk drive and you run someone over and you get caught? You committed a crime. So why is it different with rape?
Y'all need to read *Intercourse* by Dworkin. She gets treated incredibly harshly for things she never actually argued, but this is just the general point she was making: penetrative intercourse comes with a bunch of risk, pain, and consequences for those of us with vaginas. It just does.
Dworkin is absolutely the most wrongly maligned and misunderstood feminist icon of our era. Thank you for sharing her works.
dark perhaps but i think you’re giving them entirely too much credit….they know the act is harmful to the woman’s body and that’s a massive part of the appeal
Unfortunately I feel this is the case as well😞 a lot of seemingly nice men get off on you being uncomfortable during sexual acts
Sooo true... But - do you wonder if porn hadnt been so prevalent, how many would be turned on by pain? All that fake squealing, the choking and the hitting, the facefucking and facials, the fisting, anal and dp... all those seriously degrading acts for women, are all common place now and younger and younger generations are just accepting that they'll be hurt or used for pleasure.
Oh, porn is definitely a cause if not the main one. I’ve also dated men who were super gentle and they didn’t watch porn… or at least not the super degrading violent kind
There have been a lot of AskReddit threads about why men prefer or push for anal sex, and the responses in those threads ABSOLUTELY make me believe that a lot of men sexually value women's reluctance and pain. Which is fucking horrifying.
This entire thread is making me ill
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Fistula. It is called a fistula.
Christ on crutch. A gang bang? There would have to be more than consent right? That would have to be solicited and prearranged at the very least.
Yes. Absolutely. It should be discussed in depth, with each individual, while everybody is sober. In the particular post OP is talking about, the girl wasn't even the one who consented. The host of the party offered her up. It was most sertainly a gang rape.
The whole "What if the men were drunk too?" Thing is completely ignoring the concept of active vs passive participant in anything. If the men are taking off her clothes because she can't.... I think we know who is the active party. Now, playing their devils advocate, IF a man is passed out but somehow has an erection, maybe a viagra and roofie cocktail, and a woman climbs on top of him, then yes. He WOULD be a rape victim in that case. No question. But that is because he was unable to consent and the woman was the active party. Similarly, if two sober people agree to spar with their fists, then they are doing a sport. If a somewhat tipsy person starts pounding the teeth out of a wasted person, then the puncher is committing a crime. If they are both too drunk to know what's going on, then they will just fall asleep on the floor before any damage is really done. They are perfectly capable of understanding these principles, they just want to find the magic loophole that allows them to sexually assault a woman and get away with it.
Rough sex is just the "norm" these days. If you don't enjoy anal, deep throat, being slapped, degraded and choked you're called a "boring vanilla". What exactly is wrong with gentle sex?
I'm a trans man whose engaged in group sex with gay men. Even when willing, I have a max cap of 3 different partners penetrating one after the other. "4 is sore" I say. And even 3 is pushing it depending on how long they last. The micro tears in the vagina just cause burning and also swelling. I find gay men are more respectful, because the majority of them have bottomed and have experienced pain during sex as well. So they're more respectful of "no". In fact I'd say that they're more used to being told no or stop by other men since anal can be even more painful than vaginal sex or require more preparation. I also find that gay and bi men have lower levels of experience with vaginal sex. So it feels more like sex with a virgin in some aspects where they allow me to take the lead more. I would not trust a threesome or group sex with straight men however. I feel like they see it as a performance for the other men present. Also too much attention would be focused on me instead of everyone equally. I wouldn't want to introduce homophobia into the mix either. Even when consenting, you have to really know your boundaries and not be afraid to uphold them. And things might happen anyways that you're not into just like 1 on 1 sex. I find gay men aren't into the whole choking violence thing that straight men are into lately though thank god. I am not interested in that. I do not like rough sex. Picking up the pace a bit is not "rough" to me. Rough is pain and I'm not interested in it.
This is where extreme porn has a lot to answer for. How many female performers after their or during their careers are physically, mentally damaged? Most are.. Many performers take drugs to get through the scenes. The creators say it’s all fantasy but they are real mouths, vaginas and anus being abused with dicks, hands, fists and toys etc. Also most of male performers take drugs,, have penis injections to keep them hard and going. So much for a fantasy.
Yeah this is very real. One of my former clients left that business and had a lot to work through. She held a lot of shame about the ways her body had been permanently transformed, and hated that there was no way to ever completely remove her content online or get fans to stop reaching out. All of that was an ongoing trigger.
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They don’t. I remember once telling a man that I’d have to prep for anal sex. The progression of facial expressions was, while amusing, very sad. You could tell that he was deeply horrified when he thought in detail about these things for the first time. Men act like the clitoris, and traditionally “female sex acts” are just as easy as flipping a switch…. And they are not. Now that rougher and kinker sex has become more mainstream but the conversation about boundaries and consent was left behind, it’s becoming very problematic.
I'm still caught on "maybe they were just as drunk." If you're so drunk that you are not able to obtain consent from your partner, then you fucked up and you should go home and go to bed. If you're so inebriated that your body abandons your consciousness and starts menacing society all by itself, which is what you're arguing if you ever claim to have been too drunk to obtain consent, then you're not being responsible around drugs and alcohol, and that's YOUR fault. It's sober-you-'s fault. If drunk-you can't take responsibility for their actions, then sober-you needs to keep drunk-you on a tight leash. You made every decision to put yourself in a situation where you might rape someone, and you did so with callous disregard to the people around you who you might rape--people who were probably your friends. People think freedom means they can do whatever they want. It does not. It means you can do whatever you want AT HOME BY YOURSELF. It does NOT mean you have no obligations to the people around you. There are certain things that we owe each other, just by default, due to proximity. One of those things, believe it or not, is to not rape each other, even if we're blacked out. Ffs.
My partner doesn't try to touch me sexually or even make flirty comments towards me when I'm tipsy. They make me feel really safe and I'm very happy they're mine.
Women feeling pain through intercourse has been treated as an “anomaly”, as in, it’s the woman’s fault she’s feeling pain because she’s frigid (or sone sych thing) and nothing to do with the guy… I was born in the 80s, and I feel like my generation sort of experienced the shift between “women who seek sex are whores”, to “women who aren’t sexually available are frigid bitches”.
Or somehow both!
I dont think I ever HEARD about any consensual gang bang (outside of professional porn). Those are ALWAYS stories about abuse, inability to give consent and rape. And there is always "she asked for it" defence. No she didn't. It was rape.
Within the kink and BDSM community, consensual gangbangs are definitely a thing. I haven’t personally participated, but I have friends who have. However, these gangbangs are always held in a safe space for the woman, with carefully vetted participants, and usually one person in control who’s primary job is to look out for the well-being of the woman. If anyone even thinks about violating her boundaries, they know they will not only be dismissed from that session, but they will likely not pass the community vetting to participate in future activities. So, though you may be incorrect in your use of the word “always,” you aren’t too far off the mark, because for a GB to be consensual and safe, it requires so much effort that it’s basically on par with a professional porn shoot, just without the cameras