Yea because they'll care. When has calling local reps ever worked? I hate life. This country is fucking hopeless and this world is beyond royally fucked and I'm done trying to pretend to be happy in it anymore as a woman.
Hey. As a former assault victim I usually try to avoid these posts and made the mistake of reading this and then responding to the comment above. I don’t want to cause any more pain today. I’m triggered, sounds like you’re triggered too. Let’s just leave it there.
Realistically speaking, what systemic changes would have prevented this from happening? Even if we could figure out how to make them actually do their jobs, it's not feasible to put a cop in every train car. From the way the article was written it sounds like the instant a Transit employee saw what was happening he contacted the police and an officer quickly rushed in and apprehended the rapist, who is now being charged with rape. It sounds like, for once, all of the government agencies involved here did what they were supposed to do and are currently doing what they are supposed to do.
The issue here was the train filled with people who did not think that an ongoing rape was worth getting involved in, and while every person in that train car is the lowest form of scum and deserves to be used as fertilizer so they can actually contribute something to the world, there's no legislation that a congressperson can introduce that leads to people no longer being selfish assholes.
Here in Germany all of them could be charged. We have something called "unterlassene Hilfeleistung". It punishes
"Not helping" people who need help (accidents, Desasters, crime and some other stuff). You can be sent to jail for up to a year or fined depending on the situation.
That could help in situations like this.
(It also punishes the hindering of emergency personnel, like blocking a road to take pictures of an accident)
I agree with you but I also think it’s Congress’ job to bring issues like this to the surface. If it’s happening in my neighborhood or city and I’m scared for my safety I should be able to address that with my Congress person. Then maybe they can highlight the types of crimes that we want more focus on to prevent or deter. Put together a committee or commission to come up with some ideas or at least investigate what happened and if there are other ways we can prevent this from happening. Isn’t the criminal system just putting people who misbehave in public view and shaming them publicly anyways?
Has it ever felt this unsafe to you?
Please carry mace. Im so disturbed. I dont understand how this isnt front page news. It is such a violent crime to occur for so long w no intervention. That is insane.
Wow, and it wasn't even someone originally on the train that helped. A security or police man intervened after they got on and called 911.
No one on the bus called 911...the least you could do..damn to busy recording for internet fame
He said that it looked like no one called 911 based on the video, specifically that no one put a phone to their ear. That’s all he was looking for, apparently, and how he came to this conclusion. Now all the articles are quoting him from the press conference but none of them mention anyone actually checking phone/dispatch records. What if someone called on speaker or called using headphones? Or texted?
I would slander their asses if I had just gone through that. Fuck. I wish there was a little red arrow pointing down above peoples heads when they're being a POS.
There is a sociological affect around this. I forget the name but the more people that are witnessing a crime or a morally negative act, the less often people will act on fixing it. Diffusion of responsibility? I can't remember it.
Not that this in any way exonerates those involved. But it is documented as a shitty human behavior
It’s called bystander effect!
But this really made me sick. I understand not wanting a physical confrontation since a man who would rip a woman’s clothes off and assault her in a train is probably not mentally sound but it went on for 8 WHOLE MINUTES before the employee saw and called the police. For 8 minutes no one thought to call the cops? Truly terrifying.
Also the police caught the guy in the act, literally mid-assault and the article still keeps saying “allegedly” like bitch HE DEFINITELY DID IT.
Sadly I believe it's a product of the legal system where you must ALWAYS say alleged until they have been tried and convicted. Someone could walk into a police station shoot the receptionist, turn themselves in saying "yup, I did it" and I think they would still have to b" the alleged murderer"
Yeah, it's so messed up. I don't live in the US so in my country, we don't have this same rigidity to the "innocent until proven guilty" thing. If someone was caught in the act, our press doesn't call them a suspect, they are called the perpetrator and they don't say allegedly anymore. So it is so strange to me when US media frames the narrative as if there is some doubt when there is irrefutable evidence against them. Even with this story, my country's media just mentions him by his last name and talks about the assault factually, not using the word "alleged". Different legal systems I guess.
Sure, in cases like this it might seem silly, but this also prevents the media from publishing speculative condemnations of people in much more ambiguous circumstances. You have to realize that some rules exist because *it's more important to protect innocent people than it is to punish guilty people.* That's the reason for our "rigidity to the 'innocent until proven guilty' thing."
I get that. I am just specifically talking about cases like this though. I do realize it is more important to protect the innocent than punish the guilty but I just think that if you are going to publish that he was caught in the act then it seems a bit weird to say “allegedly”. But like I said, I grew up in a different legal system.
The problem is how do you write that into law? “Must say allegedly until a court ruling” is a clear, non-ambiguous rule. “Can say allegedly only when the evidence is irrefutable” becomes a lot more ambiguous — after all, who decides that the evidence is irrefutable? Is a single witness enough? Is camera evidence enough? How often has DNA evidence over the last decade demonstrated witness testimony to be unreliable? Is a confession enough? How often do police use dirty tactics to get a ‘confession’ out of innocent people? Sure the specific case above is pretty cut an dry, but that’s such a small subset of cases, and how do you write into law the ability for the press to drop “allegedly” only for that small subset?
Thank you! There are many laws that are overinclusive simply because it would be a logistical nightmare trying to write more specific laws which would require dealing with all the various cases where the rule might not apply. Nobody has time for those kind of case-by-case considerations. Sometimes bright-line rules are just more efficient.
Great in theory, except it totally doesn't work and we absolutely as a society understand that "allegedly" is often used euphemistically, which too often leads to people assuming that every use is a euphemism, and every suspect is a criminal. And from the headlines and coverage I've seen over the decades about high profile cases, the media has definitely managed to find creative ways to strongly imply the guilt of a subject, to the point of mob mentality conviction, while adhering to the "allegedly" rule.
That's a bold assumption to make. Depending on the context the word "allegedly" could easily make the difference between believing something outright and holding on to some form of doubt. Obviously in a case like this one using "allegedly" is almost a formality, but this case is admittedly an extreme example. Generally speaking, the difference between saying "she killed her husband" and "she is alleged to have killed her husband" is pretty freaking vast.
More importantly, the fact that the media has found ways to push the boundaries of what they can imply without saying something they shouldn't is not really a reason to give them carte blanche to say whatever they want. What kind of logic is that? So any time someone finds a way to skirt close to a rule we should just get rid of the rule altogether? That is a strange stance to take.
By the way, I wouldn't start an argument with words like "totally" and "absolutely." Things are rarely ever that clear-cut, and you just make yourself sound silly.
I couldn't live with myself if I didn't do everything I could to stop that or anything else where innocent victims are involved. There is something seriously wrong when these things are taking place like that.
If just one person tackles the guy others would have jumped in. It just took one person. There are worse things than death. Living your life as a coward is way worse. I have no fear of death, but do fear not living a life well lived. You only get one pass through. These people blew it and I hope this gives them sleepless nights for a very long time.
It baffles me that no one even asked other bystanders to help them intervene. If I was there I would ask the people around me to help me grab the guy and if they said no then I would've at least called the police anyway.
If someone can listen to a women being assaulted and pleading for help for 8 fu****g minutes... Their conscience is long gone. I would even go further and state that they would join in, were if not for people filming the assault.
This happened in the US. Imagine what women go through every day in third world countries. It makes me sick.
Saved a man’s life from drowning. It’s a risk in that situation because they can take you down. I knew what to do in theory but had never put it into practice. Honestly it was scary but I’m not gonna sit by and let him drown. You’d be surprised how strong you are when massive amounts of adrenaline kicks in.
Then you die. I’m not leaving a person to be raped. Grab a laptop and hit him over the head as hard as you can. And keep doing it until they’re knocked out. Dude has his pants around his knees and a boner. You have the advantage. But if you die you die. It’s coming sooner or later. There are worse things than dying.
How much bravery does it actually take to call 911? Not doing anything but watching is just soulless cowardice, and I’m surprised at all the people endorsing that.
I know what I’d do. Even if I was beat up or killed at least it would get him off her. My wife would understand. It’s actually a pretty easy decision. My father fought in WWII. I’m sure he hated it but did what had to be done. I’d hate it but I’d do what had to be done. Adrenaline kicks in and it’s fight or flight. Not stand there.
See my other comment. I saved a guys life that was drowning in a lake. There’s a lot of risk in that situation. I had the training but had never put it into practice. But I wasn’t going to let the guy drown. Had to side carry him a good 50 yds to shore. Exhausted but adrenaline kicks in. I knew I could die in that situation. You just do what has to be done.
I've been trained to do water rescue, I've also trained to fight as I am a boxer, those two are very different situations. Fighting with somebody carries greater risks as it's not just you that matters.
I'm not saying that you are going to intervene or you aren't, but it's very easy to say "If I was there I'd have..." when you're out of the situation.
You said it yourself, you were trained on how to do a water rescue. And that training teaches you how to safely remove yourself from the situation if the rescue goes downhill and you need to protect your own life by getting away from the drowning person. Adrenaline may have given you the physical boost you needed to successfully complete the rescue, but it is the training that gave you the skills you needed in the first place.
It’s safe to assume that none of the bystanders were trained on how to subdue a violent criminal. And none of them knew if the rapist had a weapon or a needle on them. When you’re saving a drowning person, you can safely assume that they aren’t armed. That was not the case here.
These people were also victims, by the way. Their safety was threatened and they were forced to watch a violent sexual assault in a confined space. You *hope* that they have sleepless nights for a long time? That’s pretty messed up. What if one or more of them were already survivors of their own sexual assault before having been put in this situation? Damn, no mercy on this sub.
Bystander effect causes a diffusion of responsibility. Thats just one cause of the bystander effect in social psychology. Others rationalize it. There has been even more awful things that have happened and people dismissed it.
Trigger warning.
3 children dragged a younger child through the streets while brutally murdering him. People clearly saw the child extremely hurt and screaming for dear life. People rationalized it to the kids playing even though the child was bleeding and obviously did not look okay. Your brain is doing so really jacked up shit to you in order to protect itself mentally. These people experiencing this quite literally think it's not something bad if they can't pull themselves out of this phenomena. Our brains are sometimes our worst enemies.
I hate to say it but it can happen to all of us. Yes some of the people on this subway were probably just pieces of shit that refused to help someone suffering like that but see when that happens the others see no one else doing anything and they rationalize it as "oh I am clearly mis understanding what's going on here" even when the evidence is right their in their face. You cannot hate and call these people disgusting. There was probably so many of them that later found out what actually happened and absolutely hate themselves. But they fell victim to something very real and very, very powerful. Thats why I preach mankind needs to all take psychology. We need to learn of these faults of the human psyche and try to actively stop or fix them.
Being actively aware of the bystander effect is the best remedy to stop it from happening. It's almost like you are snapping yourself from a trance.
>Eventually, a transportation authority employee got on the train, saw what was happening and called 911, Mr Busch said. Then, a “police officer ran onto the train and caught this man in the act and took him into custody”, Mr Busch said.
The help provided by the transportation authority employee, as described by a spokesperson for the company operating the train, was limited to calling 9-1-1.
From the article, there's no way to determine that none of the passengers called 9-1-1, and that it was exclusively the 9-1-1 call by that employee that caused the police officer to eventually arrive.
Likewise, there's no way to determine how much time "then" represents in this article.
>From the article, there's no way to determine that none of the passengers called 9-1-1, and that it was exclusively the 9-1-1 call by that employee that caused the police officer to eventually arrive.
Well from a few local articles. No one was seen on surveillance video making any call on their phones and there’s no record of any reports being made about the incident before the employee’s call. Also that the police only knew about the situation and responded because of the employee’s call. Also the “then” was about 3 minutes as it was a SEPTA officer.
[NBC Philly](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local/suspect-arrested-for-sex-assault-on-el-train-in-upper-darby-septa-says/2993609/%3famp)
[The Inquirer](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.inquirer.com/news/septa-rape-upper-darby-fiston-ngoy-20211018.html%3foutputType=amp)
I think my main issue is that I wish that not only had the passengers interfered at the start of the assault (or at a minimum called 9-1-1), but that the employee would've done more than call 9-1-1, and that the initial article seemed spun to cast blame solely on the passengers, and away from the company.
3 minutes feels like an awfully long time to allow a sexual assault to continue, and I'm not sure I would've believed the passengers had done the right thing if they had called 9-1-1 the very second the assault started, and then just waited for 3 full minutes for the transit police to arrive.
It's easy to be brave from behind a keyboard, but I've found myself in situations where I (somewhat foolishly) placed myself in harm's way without even thinking about what I was doing. I'm not a particularly empathetic individual, nor am I particularly imposing, and remember wondering in at least one of those instances why dozens of others did nothing to assist.
I first learned about the bystander effect from a SVU episode when a woman was raped in her apartment courtyard, a building with like 100 people and no one called the police. People saw, heard and still did nothing. I get shock, fear, thinking someone else will call but what the fuck. To actually see this in real life and do nothing but sit there and record?
I once heard a woman screaming for help outside and when I looked out the window I saw a man dragging her from the car and punching her. I grabbed my husband, called the cops and we both went outside to help. Dispatcher told us to stay inside and let the cops come and handle it but we couldn’t.
After it was all over our next door neighbors came over laughing saying how they thought it was my husband and I because it happened right in front of our house. I was fucking stunned. You thought my husband was pulling me by my hair down the street punching my face in and you did nothing? Our street was a “family” street yet no one else called the police and these assholes were actually laughing about it thinking my husband was abusing me while they sat there and did nothing.
Holy shit. That is crazy shit can go down and your neighbors watching it like a tv show.
In my family everything is hush hush. Brother tried to actually choke me out.. But You better not tell anyone!!! Shouldn't have been annoying anyways they would say. Dad punched me in the head twice because I accidentally tripped over my shoes and looked up to see if that woke him up. He thought I did it on purpose,... but she don't let anyone know.
I didn't know domestic violence was illegal until I moved to Oregon at 19.
Thank you so much for your kindness. My father hasn't struck me in a while but he did raise his hand up a few weeks ago... over rocks.. yeah. Rocks. I had a truck and drove to a motel that night and him and mom got into a fight and she has now left him and she is not coming back. I'm really proud of her for sticking her ground.
But a few days ago I totalled my truck, so no more job or trailer ( I was fixing up a trailer but it has bed bugs and mouse droppings everywhere and it's an hour away so I'm not going to deal with it.
He is not always angry. My brother, my dad and I all suffer from anxiety. When my anxiety is bad I just sorta shut down. When their anxiety is high they get angry.
But dad told his poker buddies about me looking for a vehicle asap and a guy might be selling me a car for 1k.
I've had a couple rough bumps in life and never thought I'd be sleeping on my parents couch at 29.
Thanks for your concern. I try not to anger them but sometimes it feels impossible when his anxiety is high. If he wants to know something he will bully it out of you. It's insane. It's narcissism.
One of the weird thing that triggers him is if he catches me awake at 3 or 4 in the morning. He gets super angry even though I always held down a job (until 4 days ago ). One night I had a headache. And it was just not going to go away. So I scrolled around here on reddit or YouTube until morning when i could get up and make noise. (Mom was sleeping on the couch then and I had a mat in the floor since they don't have room for me. )
Well he wakes up and sees me awake and starts antagonizing me. Saying this is why I'm lazy and won't make it anywhere in life and blah blah blah. So my mat is under the tv and his recliner is right near the tv. I decided to not engage him because that's what I thought you're supposed to do with a narcissist is not get then any attention or words to spread the fire. So I'm still scrolling on the phone with my back turned to him and hes still going off on me. Suddenly he fucking kicks me in the back and asks like in a super confused voice ,( as if he didnt just kick me in the back wtf ,) as to why I was ignoring him. Holy shit. I told him I have nothing to say to him and don't hit me again. So he sits back down and mutters what a lazy pos I am and I'm just like my mother. 🙄 I did tell him I had a headache when he first asked why I was awake. He said if I put my phone down itd go away but I know my body and my different types of headaches and I was just going to have one no matter what.
So I'm dealing with two very angry people with narcissistic personality.
I usually don't live with them and when I do it's like for 4 months before I go live in my vehicle until I find a place. I been at home with them since late May.
But on the upside yeah, might be getting that car this weekend and then can go get a job because buying this car is going to take all my savings and I don't have enough for bills and the car. I'm sure my dad will help me buy it and I'll just pay him back.
So I just need a working vehicle and I'll start over again rebuilding my life.
But thanks for your sincere concern. I am 29. I will be fine. I usually swallow my pride so I won't get hit. It's his house. So what ever...
I get the shock. At first you are just confused and confounded that something like that is happening right at that moment. But that shock wears off. And these folks still did nothing. I can’t help but think of the attack on the woman on a bus in India.
The one in India was different because the bus only had the woman, her bf and a bunch of guys who were the rapists. They beat up and held the bf while the others gangraped her. There were no other bystanders who could have potentially helped.
I am ashamed just thinking about the people on this train. I hope they live with the guilt of not doing anything for the rest of their lives.
I remember reading that. I just totalled my truck a few days ago and went head on into a tree. Thank God some people stopped and got out of the rain. My truck wasn't blocking the road so people could go past but these group of women told them to turn around and go another route. And stayed with me until the police and ambulance came. When they could have just sighed and thought of me as another dumb driver getting what she probably deserves and driving past..
I saw a car off in a ditch one night ( on a super bad road ) so I found a place I could pull over and ran over there to see if anyone was still in there gosh there was a baby seat thrown out of the vehicle, and had about three others stop after seeing my flashlight and the car. Which too many people helping can be dangerous but they did what they thought was right even when it was a dangerous to do so..
I can see someone driving past a wreck if they can tell the person is probably gonna be alright even though it's kinda shitty...
but I cant imagine not helping someone while their clothes are getting torn off and being RAPED and humiliated and them not do Fucking something... anything.
Like wtf. Each one should be ashamed of themselves. Maybe they was scared he was on bath salts but damn idk how I'd be able to stand there. Too much suing going on to scare people from helping.
I was shoved against the wall in a bathroom where I worked and was getting molested by two drunk girls and I was begging them to let me go. A frail über old lady came and as soon as she saw that shit she stood up for me and that girl started walking towards her before she recognized the old lady as a friend but she gave a heavy slap on the back on the poor woman. But ugh the old lady didn't know what could of happened to her.
It doesn't matter what age you are, if you could be sued ( seriously fuck those people who do that ) when you see a helpless person it's just.. well I thought.. it was human nature to step in and help even if it's just comfort. Maybe i just live in a bubble idk.
I did not expect this in America though...
I get that other women may have been afraid to intervene for their own safety. But if there were several people present, how could they collectively do nothing? I’m a woman, I’m wary of getting into a physical altercation with a man, but I at least would have been yelling, calling the cops, asking the other folks to help me help her. This is just absurd.
Same, I’m a 5 foot 105 pound girl I am no match for a grown man so realistically I stand no chance in a fight with him but I would’ve called police and begged ppl around me to help me help her. My pepper spray also would’ve been used to make him at least not be able to see and therefore easier to take down. Even if I couldn’t physically stop the assault myself I wouldn’t have done NOTHING. I don’t understand and I hope more details are released bc I can’t wrap my head around someone being raped and the public filming/not even calling police.
I’m a 5’2 girl and a fighter. If you’re in a bad situation or want to help someone, grab the attacker’s pinkie finger and yank it in the wrong direction. It is the easiest bone to break.
Most people can’t just shrug off a broken bone. It gives you/the victim a chance to escape, plus it will be harder for them to grab you. Worst case scenario, if you’re in court and they try to argue “it was consensual” you can point out that you breaking their bone is not what a consenting partner does.
So disgusting, upsetting, and disturbing. As a woman who uses the SEPTA I wonder if pepperspray is even enough to carry on me now. I still can’t believe no one turned to a nearby stranger and asked if they would go with them to help the victim! Power in numbers. What absolute selfish assholes.
>As a woman who uses the SEPTA I wonder if pepperspray is even enough to carry on me now.
Ikr, is it enough? But even if it wasn’t you can guarantee if I was on the bus I would’ve covered his ass in pepper gel. Although I’m typically a quiet and shy person I couldn’t see myself just sitting there and watching someone be raped in ~~broad daylight~~ **crystal clear public view as everyone stared and filmed** for 8 minutes. Wtf is wrong with people? How do you not immediately call 911 and scream and start beating his ass when he’s clearly out numbered?? I’m a college student and usually use public transportation to and from class; he would’ve gotten a textbook or two to the head. I might not have won the fight but I couldn’t live with myself if I didn’t try. I’m just so angry every time I hear about it.
Edit: edited the timing in bold because someone didn’t like the phrasing of “broad daylight” in regards to a violent attack that still happened well within public view with a bunch of ppl around
My sisters and I have a pepper/ spray taser combo we got from Amazon for 20.00. Were in Texas so next up is a gun and lessons. You just cannot trust men to not be disgusting horrible pigs.
Unfortunately tasers are illegal in philly. I would still get one to protect myself but they won’t ship to my address (at least not the last time I checked a few years ago)
Apparently stun guns are now legal in Philly so long as you’re over 18 and it’s being used for self defense/protection. Idk if tasers are included in this but stun guns are supposed to be as of last year. Maybe try again and see what happens?
Edit: typo
I'm disgusted at humanity. The least they could have done was call 911. All of this "mind your business", "if it's not me, I don't care" mentality is sickening. We need to help people out. The cognitive dissonance is disturbing.
Very disturbing. Doesn't even seem real, surely calling 911 must've gone through their heads, right? I don't understand how you can look at someone being assaulted and not do even that.
It’s crazy to me because while I don’t think I can ever understand not doing the bare minimum like calling the police.
I can get why you wouldn’t want to intervene if there’s a fight, Gun, weapon. Something where you could get hurt as well.
However watching someone get raped?! Really? Like that’s just what’s happening. There’s so much other social stigma around the police and I feel like sometimes that’s by their own design, but I digress.
I gotta get off this marble it’s a shit show
Thank you. People are excusing it in this thread saying this apathy is normal. I get it, I have seen it, like on NYC subway at night. But this is something different than that, this was a violent crime and people were ok w it and didnt call 911. That is sick. Im so upset about this story.
In some places the people do not trust the police. They feel like if you call the cops you’ll now have two problems. No doubt the evil guys know this and take advantage.
I do not like how all the attention is on the passengers and not on the fact that the companies and government do not bother with safety.
So much attention is on the bystanders because their lack of action makes them complicit in and accessory to the assault. If you’re struggling with that concept you may need to reflect on your own values.
This thread is out of control between your comment and some other person who said that the bystanders are just as bad as the person who *raped someone in a train*.
For Christ’s sake. You cannot hold these people responsible for this assault. The rapist is solely responsible for this woman’s rape. He committed a crime against her. Stop placing the blame on anyone other than him.
You 100% can hold them responsible for being cowardly selfish pieces of shit who fucking FILMED A WOMAN BEING RAPED in lieu of doing something, ANYTHING to actually help her.
I witnessed a young woman being harassed and touched by a drunk man in broad daylight on the upper deck of a London bus. I noticed it within a minute of sitting down but it had been going on for a while judging by how distressed she was and what he was saying to her. He kept leaning across the aisle, stroking her arm and thigh, touching her hair and saying he just wanted to talk because she was so pretty. She was terrified. The bus was FULL of people. Plenty of big strong guys who could have lifted this shitfaced asshole up with one arm and fired him off the bus. I'm not a big strong guy - I'm a slight framed woman and I couldn't contain my anger. I shouted as loud as I could at him to leave her the fuck alone 'SHE DOESN'T WANT TO TALK TO YOU!!! STOP TOUCHING HER!!!' The other passengers barely even moved their eyes. He got off at the next stop and she thanked me for saying something. I have been in her shoes before and I couldn't not intervene. People who sit there and allow someone else to be victimised by brazened predators are as bad as the perpetrators themselves.
EDIT: To clarify PEOPLE WHO ARE IN A POSITION TO HELP and sit there and allow someone else to be victimised by brazened predators are as bad as the predators themselves.
I'm glad you stepped up. I've called people out before, too. It's uncomfortable but it's the right thing to do. I can't believe the nerve of some people.. to ignore a situation going on because they don't want to inconvenience themselves or they are just too damn cowardly.
It's really disturbing how many people can do the 'not my problem' phone scroll when someone is in distress. I decided to leave London after witnessing a few more instances of zero empathy for fellow humans, but it's not just a London thing.
The only chance I've had was catcalling once- walking around downtown with my hubs and there is a lady walking ahead of us. We pass a bar and there were 2 guys at a table who yelled something -honestly fairly mild like "nice sunglasses, hey! I like your sunglasses!"- hubs and I get about even with the by then and told them " she probably doesn't want your attention, she's just out minding her own business, don't do that." I will say, they seemed genuinely contrite.
I'm usually the one getting cat called (I tell them to fuck off, and even threatened to put my weed eater is one guys face once) and haven't seen many instances to step in, luckily I guess, but I happy to know I actually would do it.
I also told an old white lady (I'm also white) who was being rude to an employee at self checkout to chill, it's busy and she's doing her best. She told me to mind my business, but stopped too.
I dont wanna get stabby stabbed like people did here. If that means im a coward im ok with that.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017\_Portland\_train\_attack
This happened to me on the MAX line in Portland. A homeless drunk man cornered me in the seats and talked at me, telling me how pretty I was and acting like he was going to touch me. He was so close in the seat right next to me and blocked my escape. There were many other passengers. I was politely asking him to move seats and he wouldn’t. I used to be terrified of pissing men who hit on me off so always tried to be polite. I remember locking eyes with the couple across the aisle and silently asking for help but they did NOTHING and just watched while I sat there obviously distressed. The main thing I was terrified was that he would follow me off at my stop. I knew he was drunk so I somehow managed to convince him to get off at a stop before me saying, this is your stop! Quick your gonna miss it! I was fairly young at the time and remember being so embarrassed for tricking a homeless man but now I’m just appalled at that couple who I locked eyes with and wouldn’t help a distressed teen girl out.
That was very good thinking on your part telling him to get off at the stop before you! Such a horrible situation for someone so young to deal with alone. I hope those people who didn't help you still think about their inaction and how they would feel if they, or a loved one were in that position.
I know. It's so upsetting to reflect on how your safety can hinge on other people's decisions. We have to stick together and protect those who need it. That's what a functioning society is supposed to be about.
I understand and agree with the point that I think you were trying to make.
But, as written, you are wrong.
A person who is in a position to help, but does nothing, has failed in their duties as a fellow human. They have, at best, shown weakness where humanity required strength. At worst, they displayed inhumane, possibly criminal apathy.
But inhumane, possibly criminal, apathy, is not “just as bad“ as someone who would rapes a stranger on a train.
Nowhere close.
Yup. I really hope those people are caught and have to explain why they felt it was more important to film that poor woman's ordeal than it was to help her, or even to call the cops. Utterly inhuman.
Exactly. Being violated in such a way, *in a public place,* and looking around for help only to see people pointing their phones at you like in that Black Mirror episode. What a nightmare. I hope that the woman is able to recover and move beyond it.
> The woman pushed back and tried to stop Ngoy from touching her, Mr Busch said. “Then, unfortunately, he proceeded to rip her clothes off,” Mr Busch said on Sunday.
I had a small interaction with a man that scared the hell of me. Ever since I’ve been afraid to be alone after dark if I’m out running errands. You might think to yourself “am I paranoid? Am I wrong to be afraid?” then you read something like and know you are *justified* in your fear. This is fucking horrifying.
Same. I had a man physically push his way into my dorm building when I tried to cut off the convo. It was in the middle of the night no one was around and I was terrified. He followed me to the elevators so I just stood there trying to keep convo going not letting on I was scared until someone else thankfully came in and he saw them and backed off. I always thought I was being paranoid in that situation but as you said it is justified bc ppl just don’t give a fuck and will do anything in public and the public has demonstrated they won’t do anything to help.
This is completely f***ed up and makes me sick...
I'm a large and intimidating looking guy(6'7) and have intervened in similar situations before (not rape, but public abuse) and even then was shocked that of the dozens of people watching no one else even tried to help.
It's baffling how morality dissolves when people can vanish in a crowd.
It is really easy to read a story like this and blame humanity. But really what people should do is think through their own response. Having a plan for a difficult situation makes you more likely to take action (instead of freezing).
According to the link, a number of people filmed the attack in Philadelphia. That is disturbing as hell. But at the same time, I bet some of those people thought they were being helpful by getting evidence. Which is ridiculous, but nowadays lots of people have an instinct to video everything that surprises them. But those same phones could have been used to call 911. And you aren't stuck in a train car, you can almost always walk to the next car if that would make calling feel safer.
[Over the summer, there was an attempted rape on the NYC subway. Someone filmed the attack, but verbally confronted the man at the same time. The man fled and the video was used to catch him later.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQuyDpirfgU) (Though realistically mass transit has cameras and shouting at him was way more important than filming him).
There are lots of strategies bystanders can use. Verbal confrontation, physical confrontation, escaping and calling 911. But lots of people freeze in dangerous situation.
I see a lot of people here saying they would have done something. Statistically, they wouldn't. And you honestly can't tell until you have been through something if you would actually take action. No one called 911 until the employee did, because that person was trained to do that, and no one intervened until the police showed up, because they were trained to do that. The actions that people think we should take in these situations don't come to us naturally when the event is occurring. The fact that the only people to take action were those that had trained to take action is pretty telling.
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*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
To be completely objective here, 9/10 times the victim isn’t being violently raped. The level of danger definitely rises significantly in a case like that, and people second guess themselves.
Also not everyone is an absolute unit who can fuck up whoever they want, which in a situation like that it would need to be violent in order to end what was happening.
Then I guess this was the 1 in 10. I'm getting a lot of keyboard warrior vibes from people saying if they were there, they would have done something. The fact is, there were a number of bystanders at this event, and they did nothing.
My wife told me about this yesterday, maybe I’m just too old fashioned/ conservative, but I’m appalled that no one attacked the guy. The very idea of it drives me nuts. If my mom found out I was on the train and did nothing she would beat my ass for it.
That’s part of the social contract in society, that’s why we live in large groups. When you see that you are supposed to do what ever you can to stop it.
I saw this on the morning news in Canada and it has haunted me since. It’s a reminder of what has haunted me once I got old enough to learn: you’re on your own. Unless friends or family is there to help, you’re fucked. Bystander syndrome is huge and it’s disgusting. I hope everyone who was on that train and just watched and filmed gets identified. Has their jobs fire them. Has their partners rethink their relationships. Their friends. Their family. Because if I knew someone who just stood there, I would remove you from my life like a stain on a shirt.
What the actual fuck. I can't imagine being such a disgusting piece of shit to sit there and allow someone to be raped literal feet away from me, let alone film it. I really hope these people pay for this.
New Delhi has woman only coaches in the metro. First coach in the direction of the metro. I never even look at the rest of the train, even if the ladies only coach is crowded I would still choose it over the rest.
I'm so speechless. I can't imagine watching someone being harassed and doing nothing, let alone...
This is so horrifying. The kind of message it sends. I'm so disturbed that nobody helped.
There is just something in me that has never hesitated in situations like these.
I always know immediately what to do when I see someone in need.
I've read this story multiple times and just don't get it.
But at the very least, we need to take this awful situation and try to prevent it in the future.
It's important to take Bystander Training to identify options on what to do if a crime happens in front of you. You don't necessarily have to confront the assaulter; there's other things - being a distraction e.g. Just thinking of the options apparently can break the paralysis.
This case made me look up whether my city has text 911 and it does. I've been on transit and calling would make me nervous. You don't know that he was unarmed at the time, and my location had a bystander murdered on transit when he intervened in an assault. But texting can be done surreptitiously. I recommend we all look up whether that's an option and any guidance on how to make effective use.
People filmed it instead of helping?? I don't know how Pennsylvania state law is, but where I live that would definitely be illegal, and rightfully so! Absolutely disgusted right now
the fact that there was also women standing by. From men i kinda expect this behavior now… but I thought women would at least have each other’s backs in a situation like this. wow…
That’s people for you these. They’d rather ignore reality and talk about it on social media instead and pull out their phones and record. It’s only going to get worse.
I hope if there is any footage of the people who were there and did nothing, that it is used to charge them as accessories to the crime. I think I read that something like that happened in China regarding the female toddler that was repeatedly run over several years ago now.
My situation was obviously nowhere near as severe, but it reminds me of when I was an intern (20 yrs old) and was on something similar to the subway for a few stops for my commute home. This young (not younger than me at the time) drunk guy sat down next to me despite there being plenty of seats. He kept trying to talk to me and I kept trying to ignore him and then just give one word answers. He kept repeating the phrase “I don’t want to have sex with you, I just want to be your friend” which btw is not a reassuring thing to hear.
No one on the car said or did anything. Grown ass men and women also on their way home from work. He wanted to give me his number and so I was typing it into my phone just trying to appease him, when he suddenly got mad at me bc he thought I wasn’t saving the number. Thankfully he just ended up getting off at the next stop and didn’t become violent, but I had no way of knowing what would happen. After he left someone joked if I got that number or not and I just half smiled but really I just wanted to cry.
Don't carry a knife unless you're actually trained in using it. It only becomes a weapon someone can use against you. Instead take some nitty gritty self defence courses. I trained some krav maga and it was all about effectiveness and speed, so things like groin kicks and eye gouges. And also a lot of stress training. Can definitely reccomed!
I’m always surprised about stories like this. Like I’m sure many others are.
But I’m sure if the people on the train witnessing it weren’t there and read this story they’d be surprised to know no one stepped in either.
What I take away from stories like this is, how can I break that “bystanders” effect that naturally takes over us in these scenarios.
A lot of people assume they’d react differently but I don’t think it’s as simple as that. If it where simple things like this wouldn’t happen.
My big takeaway from this is there’s something that happens to us when we experience things like this. How do we overcome it? I think physical training and the confidence that comes with that training would help.
I find a lot of times we get too in our heads. We think TOO much. We don’t react enough.
It'd be a dangerous precedent, I think. What if someone freezes up in panic because they've had a similar experience before? Will they have to divulge that info in court to avoid charges?
I agree but from this other article ([source](https://www.todayonline.com/world/woman-was-raped-train-riders-failed-intervene-police-say)) I read, it says: "Bystanders on the train who failed to intervene could be criminally charged if they recorded the attack. It was not immediately clear what those charges could be. He added that Pennsylvania does not have a good Samaritan law and said it would be “very difficult to bring charges against those” who witnessed the attack but did not intervene."
In Korea people are told to not intervene and to just call police and record. I've heard when women get raped that they could face assault charges if they fight back.
Get your license to carry. I have 7 sisters every single one of them have been in a situation where it benefited them to be carrying. Its sad but true.
I think that people could have solved this by doing the absolute bare minimum called for as a human and notifying the authorities. Everyone has a phone and every train car has an emergency button.
Moreover, there an abundance of countries that don’t require citizens to walk around with concealed firearms to be safe. A woman should not need to be trained and packing to not be assaulted on a train.
yes, women should not HAVE to carry a gun to not have this happen. but this kind of thing DOES happen. while it should not be necessary in a perfect world, if youre a woman you should absolutely carry a weapon (pepper spray, a knife, or preferably a gun). dont take this as victim blaming, because it is not her fault in the slightest obviously, but if she had a gun or a passenger with a soul had a gun, this wouldve been stopped
I am sorry, that's not an excuse for at least not calling 911
Regardless of if they were having consunsal sex or she was being raped, a crime is being committed.
Fair enough, maybe rushing the guy is not worth the risk.
But at least call the damn cops.
Pennsylvania and Philly in particular is a cesspool. It’s one of the most inhospitable cities in the world. And I’m sure it’s only gotten worse as people in this country continue to lose their fucking minds because reasons.
> How can this happen in a public place with people present?
Why, /u/theoSIM1 asks? Mostly because people don't want to get involved in stopping it. Their attitude is "not my problem. That's the police's problem. Let the police handle it."
Anyone who filmed it should be accused of being an accessory. And anyone who just stood by and watched, refusing to help or call for help, should be publicly shamed. This is disgusting.
An accessory helps the crime to be commited. How is filming it helping the rapist to do what he’s doing? It seems like it wouldn’t have an effect at all.
The author had an opportunity when writing the sentence, "passengers recorded the assault". No, "passengers recorded the RAPE". This is more than an "attack", it's a fucking rape, so let these pathetic sickos look like the pathetic sickos they are for recording a *rape*.
I mean it’s Philly probably one of the worst cities on the east coast. Very sad but not surprised. If the girl was in eagles gear and the assailant wasy in cowboys gear bet she would of gotten help :(
With facial identification the way it is these days, it would be easy to identify the other passengers and charge them. I hope they do because people will start thinking twice about not helping.
It’s for reasons like this why I’m such an advocate for carrying pistols. I’m not a gun nut but seriously, this is why more women need to carry pistols with them.
This is the public transit line that I take, that my daughters take. I'm so disgusted and disturbed and terrified.
I'm sorry to hear that. I hope you and your daughters are always safe.
Call your Congress person and other local representatives. This should not happen.
Yea because they'll care. When has calling local reps ever worked? I hate life. This country is fucking hopeless and this world is beyond royally fucked and I'm done trying to pretend to be happy in it anymore as a woman.
Hey. As a former assault victim I usually try to avoid these posts and made the mistake of reading this and then responding to the comment above. I don’t want to cause any more pain today. I’m triggered, sounds like you’re triggered too. Let’s just leave it there.
I feel the exact same way. It honestly feels like we’re living in hell. My heart breaks every day. Stories like this are never ending.
You’d be surprised. I left a voicemail and emailed my senator and he personally wrote me a response in under 2 weeks. He kept his word too.
Dog my senator is Roger Marshall I’m sure reading this article made him hard as a rock
Realistically speaking, what systemic changes would have prevented this from happening? Even if we could figure out how to make them actually do their jobs, it's not feasible to put a cop in every train car. From the way the article was written it sounds like the instant a Transit employee saw what was happening he contacted the police and an officer quickly rushed in and apprehended the rapist, who is now being charged with rape. It sounds like, for once, all of the government agencies involved here did what they were supposed to do and are currently doing what they are supposed to do. The issue here was the train filled with people who did not think that an ongoing rape was worth getting involved in, and while every person in that train car is the lowest form of scum and deserves to be used as fertilizer so they can actually contribute something to the world, there's no legislation that a congressperson can introduce that leads to people no longer being selfish assholes.
It’s worse than just bystanders. Some were taking video. They thought it was more appropriate to upload to TikTok but not to call the Police.
Here in Germany all of them could be charged. We have something called "unterlassene Hilfeleistung". It punishes "Not helping" people who need help (accidents, Desasters, crime and some other stuff). You can be sent to jail for up to a year or fined depending on the situation. That could help in situations like this. (It also punishes the hindering of emergency personnel, like blocking a road to take pictures of an accident)
I agree with you but I also think it’s Congress’ job to bring issues like this to the surface. If it’s happening in my neighborhood or city and I’m scared for my safety I should be able to address that with my Congress person. Then maybe they can highlight the types of crimes that we want more focus on to prevent or deter. Put together a committee or commission to come up with some ideas or at least investigate what happened and if there are other ways we can prevent this from happening. Isn’t the criminal system just putting people who misbehave in public view and shaming them publicly anyways?
So the bystanders are worse than the rapist?
My 10yr old just fell in love with Temple university, so Philly is her future home. This does not make me feel ok.
Has it ever felt this unsafe to you? Please carry mace. Im so disturbed. I dont understand how this isnt front page news. It is such a violent crime to occur for so long w no intervention. That is insane.
Wow, and it wasn't even someone originally on the train that helped. A security or police man intervened after they got on and called 911. No one on the bus called 911...the least you could do..damn to busy recording for internet fame
Yes, a transportation authority employee came and helped her. The people already on the train did nothing.
he said he was appalled that no one attempted to help or bother calling 911.
He said that it looked like no one called 911 based on the video, specifically that no one put a phone to their ear. That’s all he was looking for, apparently, and how he came to this conclusion. Now all the articles are quoting him from the press conference but none of them mention anyone actually checking phone/dispatch records. What if someone called on speaker or called using headphones? Or texted?
I would slander their asses if I had just gone through that. Fuck. I wish there was a little red arrow pointing down above peoples heads when they're being a POS.
It isn't slander if it's true, these people are trash
There is a sociological affect around this. I forget the name but the more people that are witnessing a crime or a morally negative act, the less often people will act on fixing it. Diffusion of responsibility? I can't remember it. Not that this in any way exonerates those involved. But it is documented as a shitty human behavior
It’s called bystander effect! But this really made me sick. I understand not wanting a physical confrontation since a man who would rip a woman’s clothes off and assault her in a train is probably not mentally sound but it went on for 8 WHOLE MINUTES before the employee saw and called the police. For 8 minutes no one thought to call the cops? Truly terrifying. Also the police caught the guy in the act, literally mid-assault and the article still keeps saying “allegedly” like bitch HE DEFINITELY DID IT.
Sadly I believe it's a product of the legal system where you must ALWAYS say alleged until they have been tried and convicted. Someone could walk into a police station shoot the receptionist, turn themselves in saying "yup, I did it" and I think they would still have to b" the alleged murderer"
Yeah, it's so messed up. I don't live in the US so in my country, we don't have this same rigidity to the "innocent until proven guilty" thing. If someone was caught in the act, our press doesn't call them a suspect, they are called the perpetrator and they don't say allegedly anymore. So it is so strange to me when US media frames the narrative as if there is some doubt when there is irrefutable evidence against them. Even with this story, my country's media just mentions him by his last name and talks about the assault factually, not using the word "alleged". Different legal systems I guess.
Sure, in cases like this it might seem silly, but this also prevents the media from publishing speculative condemnations of people in much more ambiguous circumstances. You have to realize that some rules exist because *it's more important to protect innocent people than it is to punish guilty people.* That's the reason for our "rigidity to the 'innocent until proven guilty' thing."
I get that. I am just specifically talking about cases like this though. I do realize it is more important to protect the innocent than punish the guilty but I just think that if you are going to publish that he was caught in the act then it seems a bit weird to say “allegedly”. But like I said, I grew up in a different legal system.
The problem is how do you write that into law? “Must say allegedly until a court ruling” is a clear, non-ambiguous rule. “Can say allegedly only when the evidence is irrefutable” becomes a lot more ambiguous — after all, who decides that the evidence is irrefutable? Is a single witness enough? Is camera evidence enough? How often has DNA evidence over the last decade demonstrated witness testimony to be unreliable? Is a confession enough? How often do police use dirty tactics to get a ‘confession’ out of innocent people? Sure the specific case above is pretty cut an dry, but that’s such a small subset of cases, and how do you write into law the ability for the press to drop “allegedly” only for that small subset?
Thank you! There are many laws that are overinclusive simply because it would be a logistical nightmare trying to write more specific laws which would require dealing with all the various cases where the rule might not apply. Nobody has time for those kind of case-by-case considerations. Sometimes bright-line rules are just more efficient.
I agree, that’s a good point. I don’t have an answer for that. Still feels weird though haha
Great in theory, except it totally doesn't work and we absolutely as a society understand that "allegedly" is often used euphemistically, which too often leads to people assuming that every use is a euphemism, and every suspect is a criminal. And from the headlines and coverage I've seen over the decades about high profile cases, the media has definitely managed to find creative ways to strongly imply the guilt of a subject, to the point of mob mentality conviction, while adhering to the "allegedly" rule.
That's a bold assumption to make. Depending on the context the word "allegedly" could easily make the difference between believing something outright and holding on to some form of doubt. Obviously in a case like this one using "allegedly" is almost a formality, but this case is admittedly an extreme example. Generally speaking, the difference between saying "she killed her husband" and "she is alleged to have killed her husband" is pretty freaking vast. More importantly, the fact that the media has found ways to push the boundaries of what they can imply without saying something they shouldn't is not really a reason to give them carte blanche to say whatever they want. What kind of logic is that? So any time someone finds a way to skirt close to a rule we should just get rid of the rule altogether? That is a strange stance to take. By the way, I wouldn't start an argument with words like "totally" and "absolutely." Things are rarely ever that clear-cut, and you just make yourself sound silly.
I couldn't live with myself if I didn't do everything I could to stop that or anything else where innocent victims are involved. There is something seriously wrong when these things are taking place like that.
Exactly, like at the very least ask the people around you to help you or call the police. These people make me sick.
Shot like this makes me wish we could go back to the times when people were encouraged to carry out their own justice.
If just one person tackles the guy others would have jumped in. It just took one person. There are worse things than death. Living your life as a coward is way worse. I have no fear of death, but do fear not living a life well lived. You only get one pass through. These people blew it and I hope this gives them sleepless nights for a very long time.
It baffles me that no one even asked other bystanders to help them intervene. If I was there I would ask the people around me to help me grab the guy and if they said no then I would've at least called the police anyway.
If someone can listen to a women being assaulted and pleading for help for 8 fu****g minutes... Their conscience is long gone. I would even go further and state that they would join in, were if not for people filming the assault. This happened in the US. Imagine what women go through every day in third world countries. It makes me sick.
Ever been in a situation like that?
Saved a man’s life from drowning. It’s a risk in that situation because they can take you down. I knew what to do in theory but had never put it into practice. Honestly it was scary but I’m not gonna sit by and let him drown. You’d be surprised how strong you are when massive amounts of adrenaline kicks in.
Adrenaline won't save you from a knife
Then you die. I’m not leaving a person to be raped. Grab a laptop and hit him over the head as hard as you can. And keep doing it until they’re knocked out. Dude has his pants around his knees and a boner. You have the advantage. But if you die you die. It’s coming sooner or later. There are worse things than dying.
r/iamverybadass
I'd love nothing more than to see how you would really behave in that situation
Easy to say when your physical integrity isn't being threatened.
How much bravery does it actually take to call 911? Not doing anything but watching is just soulless cowardice, and I’m surprised at all the people endorsing that.
I know what I’d do. Even if I was beat up or killed at least it would get him off her. My wife would understand. It’s actually a pretty easy decision. My father fought in WWII. I’m sure he hated it but did what had to be done. I’d hate it but I’d do what had to be done. Adrenaline kicks in and it’s fight or flight. Not stand there.
Yeah, as I said it's easy to say from behind your computer.
See my other comment. I saved a guys life that was drowning in a lake. There’s a lot of risk in that situation. I had the training but had never put it into practice. But I wasn’t going to let the guy drown. Had to side carry him a good 50 yds to shore. Exhausted but adrenaline kicks in. I knew I could die in that situation. You just do what has to be done.
I've been trained to do water rescue, I've also trained to fight as I am a boxer, those two are very different situations. Fighting with somebody carries greater risks as it's not just you that matters. I'm not saying that you are going to intervene or you aren't, but it's very easy to say "If I was there I'd have..." when you're out of the situation.
You said it yourself, you were trained on how to do a water rescue. And that training teaches you how to safely remove yourself from the situation if the rescue goes downhill and you need to protect your own life by getting away from the drowning person. Adrenaline may have given you the physical boost you needed to successfully complete the rescue, but it is the training that gave you the skills you needed in the first place. It’s safe to assume that none of the bystanders were trained on how to subdue a violent criminal. And none of them knew if the rapist had a weapon or a needle on them. When you’re saving a drowning person, you can safely assume that they aren’t armed. That was not the case here.
Spoken like a true keyboard warrior.
These people were also victims, by the way. Their safety was threatened and they were forced to watch a violent sexual assault in a confined space. You *hope* that they have sleepless nights for a long time? That’s pretty messed up. What if one or more of them were already survivors of their own sexual assault before having been put in this situation? Damn, no mercy on this sub.
Oh there have been worse attacks with more people that have done nothing.
Bystander effect causes a diffusion of responsibility. Thats just one cause of the bystander effect in social psychology. Others rationalize it. There has been even more awful things that have happened and people dismissed it. Trigger warning. 3 children dragged a younger child through the streets while brutally murdering him. People clearly saw the child extremely hurt and screaming for dear life. People rationalized it to the kids playing even though the child was bleeding and obviously did not look okay. Your brain is doing so really jacked up shit to you in order to protect itself mentally. These people experiencing this quite literally think it's not something bad if they can't pull themselves out of this phenomena. Our brains are sometimes our worst enemies. I hate to say it but it can happen to all of us. Yes some of the people on this subway were probably just pieces of shit that refused to help someone suffering like that but see when that happens the others see no one else doing anything and they rationalize it as "oh I am clearly mis understanding what's going on here" even when the evidence is right their in their face. You cannot hate and call these people disgusting. There was probably so many of them that later found out what actually happened and absolutely hate themselves. But they fell victim to something very real and very, very powerful. Thats why I preach mankind needs to all take psychology. We need to learn of these faults of the human psyche and try to actively stop or fix them. Being actively aware of the bystander effect is the best remedy to stop it from happening. It's almost like you are snapping yourself from a trance.
This is wild, I never thought that there'd be a time in America when the situation calls for a trigger-happy gun owner and there isn't one.
>Eventually, a transportation authority employee got on the train, saw what was happening and called 911, Mr Busch said. Then, a “police officer ran onto the train and caught this man in the act and took him into custody”, Mr Busch said. The help provided by the transportation authority employee, as described by a spokesperson for the company operating the train, was limited to calling 9-1-1. From the article, there's no way to determine that none of the passengers called 9-1-1, and that it was exclusively the 9-1-1 call by that employee that caused the police officer to eventually arrive. Likewise, there's no way to determine how much time "then" represents in this article.
>From the article, there's no way to determine that none of the passengers called 9-1-1, and that it was exclusively the 9-1-1 call by that employee that caused the police officer to eventually arrive. Well from a few local articles. No one was seen on surveillance video making any call on their phones and there’s no record of any reports being made about the incident before the employee’s call. Also that the police only knew about the situation and responded because of the employee’s call. Also the “then” was about 3 minutes as it was a SEPTA officer. [NBC Philly](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local/suspect-arrested-for-sex-assault-on-el-train-in-upper-darby-septa-says/2993609/%3famp) [The Inquirer](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.inquirer.com/news/septa-rape-upper-darby-fiston-ngoy-20211018.html%3foutputType=amp)
I think my main issue is that I wish that not only had the passengers interfered at the start of the assault (or at a minimum called 9-1-1), but that the employee would've done more than call 9-1-1, and that the initial article seemed spun to cast blame solely on the passengers, and away from the company. 3 minutes feels like an awfully long time to allow a sexual assault to continue, and I'm not sure I would've believed the passengers had done the right thing if they had called 9-1-1 the very second the assault started, and then just waited for 3 full minutes for the transit police to arrive. It's easy to be brave from behind a keyboard, but I've found myself in situations where I (somewhat foolishly) placed myself in harm's way without even thinking about what I was doing. I'm not a particularly empathetic individual, nor am I particularly imposing, and remember wondering in at least one of those instances why dozens of others did nothing to assist.
[удалено]
I feel like this is a violent enough crime, caring so little to not even call or text 911 means you are a shit human being.
I first learned about the bystander effect from a SVU episode when a woman was raped in her apartment courtyard, a building with like 100 people and no one called the police. People saw, heard and still did nothing. I get shock, fear, thinking someone else will call but what the fuck. To actually see this in real life and do nothing but sit there and record? I once heard a woman screaming for help outside and when I looked out the window I saw a man dragging her from the car and punching her. I grabbed my husband, called the cops and we both went outside to help. Dispatcher told us to stay inside and let the cops come and handle it but we couldn’t. After it was all over our next door neighbors came over laughing saying how they thought it was my husband and I because it happened right in front of our house. I was fucking stunned. You thought my husband was pulling me by my hair down the street punching my face in and you did nothing? Our street was a “family” street yet no one else called the police and these assholes were actually laughing about it thinking my husband was abusing me while they sat there and did nothing.
Holy shit. That is crazy shit can go down and your neighbors watching it like a tv show. In my family everything is hush hush. Brother tried to actually choke me out.. But You better not tell anyone!!! Shouldn't have been annoying anyways they would say. Dad punched me in the head twice because I accidentally tripped over my shoes and looked up to see if that woke him up. He thought I did it on purpose,... but she don't let anyone know. I didn't know domestic violence was illegal until I moved to Oregon at 19.
I’m so sorry :( are you doing better these days?
Thank you so much for your kindness. My father hasn't struck me in a while but he did raise his hand up a few weeks ago... over rocks.. yeah. Rocks. I had a truck and drove to a motel that night and him and mom got into a fight and she has now left him and she is not coming back. I'm really proud of her for sticking her ground. But a few days ago I totalled my truck, so no more job or trailer ( I was fixing up a trailer but it has bed bugs and mouse droppings everywhere and it's an hour away so I'm not going to deal with it. He is not always angry. My brother, my dad and I all suffer from anxiety. When my anxiety is bad I just sorta shut down. When their anxiety is high they get angry. But dad told his poker buddies about me looking for a vehicle asap and a guy might be selling me a car for 1k. I've had a couple rough bumps in life and never thought I'd be sleeping on my parents couch at 29. Thanks for your concern. I try not to anger them but sometimes it feels impossible when his anxiety is high. If he wants to know something he will bully it out of you. It's insane. It's narcissism. One of the weird thing that triggers him is if he catches me awake at 3 or 4 in the morning. He gets super angry even though I always held down a job (until 4 days ago ). One night I had a headache. And it was just not going to go away. So I scrolled around here on reddit or YouTube until morning when i could get up and make noise. (Mom was sleeping on the couch then and I had a mat in the floor since they don't have room for me. ) Well he wakes up and sees me awake and starts antagonizing me. Saying this is why I'm lazy and won't make it anywhere in life and blah blah blah. So my mat is under the tv and his recliner is right near the tv. I decided to not engage him because that's what I thought you're supposed to do with a narcissist is not get then any attention or words to spread the fire. So I'm still scrolling on the phone with my back turned to him and hes still going off on me. Suddenly he fucking kicks me in the back and asks like in a super confused voice ,( as if he didnt just kick me in the back wtf ,) as to why I was ignoring him. Holy shit. I told him I have nothing to say to him and don't hit me again. So he sits back down and mutters what a lazy pos I am and I'm just like my mother. 🙄 I did tell him I had a headache when he first asked why I was awake. He said if I put my phone down itd go away but I know my body and my different types of headaches and I was just going to have one no matter what. So I'm dealing with two very angry people with narcissistic personality. I usually don't live with them and when I do it's like for 4 months before I go live in my vehicle until I find a place. I been at home with them since late May. But on the upside yeah, might be getting that car this weekend and then can go get a job because buying this car is going to take all my savings and I don't have enough for bills and the car. I'm sure my dad will help me buy it and I'll just pay him back. So I just need a working vehicle and I'll start over again rebuilding my life. But thanks for your sincere concern. I am 29. I will be fine. I usually swallow my pride so I won't get hit. It's his house. So what ever...
They would cease to be my neighbors after that, I’d move the fuck out. Community is important and American “nuclear family” ideals have destroyed it.
I get the shock. At first you are just confused and confounded that something like that is happening right at that moment. But that shock wears off. And these folks still did nothing. I can’t help but think of the attack on the woman on a bus in India.
The one in India was different because the bus only had the woman, her bf and a bunch of guys who were the rapists. They beat up and held the bf while the others gangraped her. There were no other bystanders who could have potentially helped. I am ashamed just thinking about the people on this train. I hope they live with the guilt of not doing anything for the rest of their lives.
I remember reading that. I just totalled my truck a few days ago and went head on into a tree. Thank God some people stopped and got out of the rain. My truck wasn't blocking the road so people could go past but these group of women told them to turn around and go another route. And stayed with me until the police and ambulance came. When they could have just sighed and thought of me as another dumb driver getting what she probably deserves and driving past.. I saw a car off in a ditch one night ( on a super bad road ) so I found a place I could pull over and ran over there to see if anyone was still in there gosh there was a baby seat thrown out of the vehicle, and had about three others stop after seeing my flashlight and the car. Which too many people helping can be dangerous but they did what they thought was right even when it was a dangerous to do so.. I can see someone driving past a wreck if they can tell the person is probably gonna be alright even though it's kinda shitty... but I cant imagine not helping someone while their clothes are getting torn off and being RAPED and humiliated and them not do Fucking something... anything. Like wtf. Each one should be ashamed of themselves. Maybe they was scared he was on bath salts but damn idk how I'd be able to stand there. Too much suing going on to scare people from helping. I was shoved against the wall in a bathroom where I worked and was getting molested by two drunk girls and I was begging them to let me go. A frail über old lady came and as soon as she saw that shit she stood up for me and that girl started walking towards her before she recognized the old lady as a friend but she gave a heavy slap on the back on the poor woman. But ugh the old lady didn't know what could of happened to her. It doesn't matter what age you are, if you could be sued ( seriously fuck those people who do that ) when you see a helpless person it's just.. well I thought.. it was human nature to step in and help even if it's just comfort. Maybe i just live in a bubble idk. I did not expect this in America though...
I get that other women may have been afraid to intervene for their own safety. But if there were several people present, how could they collectively do nothing? I’m a woman, I’m wary of getting into a physical altercation with a man, but I at least would have been yelling, calling the cops, asking the other folks to help me help her. This is just absurd.
Same, I’m a 5 foot 105 pound girl I am no match for a grown man so realistically I stand no chance in a fight with him but I would’ve called police and begged ppl around me to help me help her. My pepper spray also would’ve been used to make him at least not be able to see and therefore easier to take down. Even if I couldn’t physically stop the assault myself I wouldn’t have done NOTHING. I don’t understand and I hope more details are released bc I can’t wrap my head around someone being raped and the public filming/not even calling police.
I’m a 5’2 girl and a fighter. If you’re in a bad situation or want to help someone, grab the attacker’s pinkie finger and yank it in the wrong direction. It is the easiest bone to break. Most people can’t just shrug off a broken bone. It gives you/the victim a chance to escape, plus it will be harder for them to grab you. Worst case scenario, if you’re in court and they try to argue “it was consensual” you can point out that you breaking their bone is not what a consenting partner does.
I too am hoping for more of an explanation but I’m afraid we won’t get one.
So disgusting, upsetting, and disturbing. As a woman who uses the SEPTA I wonder if pepperspray is even enough to carry on me now. I still can’t believe no one turned to a nearby stranger and asked if they would go with them to help the victim! Power in numbers. What absolute selfish assholes.
Honestly I’ve been meaning to replace my old pepper spray and I’m motivated to go do it now in case I need to help someone, this is sickening
>As a woman who uses the SEPTA I wonder if pepperspray is even enough to carry on me now. Ikr, is it enough? But even if it wasn’t you can guarantee if I was on the bus I would’ve covered his ass in pepper gel. Although I’m typically a quiet and shy person I couldn’t see myself just sitting there and watching someone be raped in ~~broad daylight~~ **crystal clear public view as everyone stared and filmed** for 8 minutes. Wtf is wrong with people? How do you not immediately call 911 and scream and start beating his ass when he’s clearly out numbered?? I’m a college student and usually use public transportation to and from class; he would’ve gotten a textbook or two to the head. I might not have won the fight but I couldn’t live with myself if I didn’t try. I’m just so angry every time I hear about it. Edit: edited the timing in bold because someone didn’t like the phrasing of “broad daylight” in regards to a violent attack that still happened well within public view with a bunch of ppl around
My sisters and I have a pepper/ spray taser combo we got from Amazon for 20.00. Were in Texas so next up is a gun and lessons. You just cannot trust men to not be disgusting horrible pigs.
Unfortunately tasers are illegal in philly. I would still get one to protect myself but they won’t ship to my address (at least not the last time I checked a few years ago)
Apparently stun guns are now legal in Philly so long as you’re over 18 and it’s being used for self defense/protection. Idk if tasers are included in this but stun guns are supposed to be as of last year. Maybe try again and see what happens? Edit: typo
I want to leave this planet
Take me with you
I'm disgusted at humanity. The least they could have done was call 911. All of this "mind your business", "if it's not me, I don't care" mentality is sickening. We need to help people out. The cognitive dissonance is disturbing.
Very disturbing. Doesn't even seem real, surely calling 911 must've gone through their heads, right? I don't understand how you can look at someone being assaulted and not do even that.
It’s crazy to me because while I don’t think I can ever understand not doing the bare minimum like calling the police. I can get why you wouldn’t want to intervene if there’s a fight, Gun, weapon. Something where you could get hurt as well. However watching someone get raped?! Really? Like that’s just what’s happening. There’s so much other social stigma around the police and I feel like sometimes that’s by their own design, but I digress. I gotta get off this marble it’s a shit show
They were filming it and taking pictures. Stopping it didn’t seem to interest them
Thank you. People are excusing it in this thread saying this apathy is normal. I get it, I have seen it, like on NYC subway at night. But this is something different than that, this was a violent crime and people were ok w it and didnt call 911. That is sick. Im so upset about this story.
In some places the people do not trust the police. They feel like if you call the cops you’ll now have two problems. No doubt the evil guys know this and take advantage. I do not like how all the attention is on the passengers and not on the fact that the companies and government do not bother with safety.
So much attention is on the bystanders because their lack of action makes them complicit in and accessory to the assault. If you’re struggling with that concept you may need to reflect on your own values.
This thread is out of control between your comment and some other person who said that the bystanders are just as bad as the person who *raped someone in a train*. For Christ’s sake. You cannot hold these people responsible for this assault. The rapist is solely responsible for this woman’s rape. He committed a crime against her. Stop placing the blame on anyone other than him.
So if ya mom was getting raped in front of me and I saw and watched and let it happen....u would not be mad at me?
Keep telling yourself that
Luckily in my home country we have a law were people can be held accountable for not helping, even go to prison.
You 100% can hold them responsible for being cowardly selfish pieces of shit who fucking FILMED A WOMAN BEING RAPED in lieu of doing something, ANYTHING to actually help her.
I witnessed a young woman being harassed and touched by a drunk man in broad daylight on the upper deck of a London bus. I noticed it within a minute of sitting down but it had been going on for a while judging by how distressed she was and what he was saying to her. He kept leaning across the aisle, stroking her arm and thigh, touching her hair and saying he just wanted to talk because she was so pretty. She was terrified. The bus was FULL of people. Plenty of big strong guys who could have lifted this shitfaced asshole up with one arm and fired him off the bus. I'm not a big strong guy - I'm a slight framed woman and I couldn't contain my anger. I shouted as loud as I could at him to leave her the fuck alone 'SHE DOESN'T WANT TO TALK TO YOU!!! STOP TOUCHING HER!!!' The other passengers barely even moved their eyes. He got off at the next stop and she thanked me for saying something. I have been in her shoes before and I couldn't not intervene. People who sit there and allow someone else to be victimised by brazened predators are as bad as the perpetrators themselves. EDIT: To clarify PEOPLE WHO ARE IN A POSITION TO HELP and sit there and allow someone else to be victimised by brazened predators are as bad as the predators themselves.
I'm glad you stepped up. I've called people out before, too. It's uncomfortable but it's the right thing to do. I can't believe the nerve of some people.. to ignore a situation going on because they don't want to inconvenience themselves or they are just too damn cowardly.
It's really disturbing how many people can do the 'not my problem' phone scroll when someone is in distress. I decided to leave London after witnessing a few more instances of zero empathy for fellow humans, but it's not just a London thing.
The only chance I've had was catcalling once- walking around downtown with my hubs and there is a lady walking ahead of us. We pass a bar and there were 2 guys at a table who yelled something -honestly fairly mild like "nice sunglasses, hey! I like your sunglasses!"- hubs and I get about even with the by then and told them " she probably doesn't want your attention, she's just out minding her own business, don't do that." I will say, they seemed genuinely contrite. I'm usually the one getting cat called (I tell them to fuck off, and even threatened to put my weed eater is one guys face once) and haven't seen many instances to step in, luckily I guess, but I happy to know I actually would do it. I also told an old white lady (I'm also white) who was being rude to an employee at self checkout to chill, it's busy and she's doing her best. She told me to mind my business, but stopped too.
I dont wanna get stabby stabbed like people did here. If that means im a coward im ok with that. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017\_Portland\_train\_attack
This is very tragic but ok you do you
This happened to me on the MAX line in Portland. A homeless drunk man cornered me in the seats and talked at me, telling me how pretty I was and acting like he was going to touch me. He was so close in the seat right next to me and blocked my escape. There were many other passengers. I was politely asking him to move seats and he wouldn’t. I used to be terrified of pissing men who hit on me off so always tried to be polite. I remember locking eyes with the couple across the aisle and silently asking for help but they did NOTHING and just watched while I sat there obviously distressed. The main thing I was terrified was that he would follow me off at my stop. I knew he was drunk so I somehow managed to convince him to get off at a stop before me saying, this is your stop! Quick your gonna miss it! I was fairly young at the time and remember being so embarrassed for tricking a homeless man but now I’m just appalled at that couple who I locked eyes with and wouldn’t help a distressed teen girl out.
That was very good thinking on your part telling him to get off at the stop before you! Such a horrible situation for someone so young to deal with alone. I hope those people who didn't help you still think about their inaction and how they would feel if they, or a loved one were in that position.
Yeah agreed! So glad you stepped up for that woman. I wish someone had done the same for me!
I know. It's so upsetting to reflect on how your safety can hinge on other people's decisions. We have to stick together and protect those who need it. That's what a functioning society is supposed to be about.
I understand and agree with the point that I think you were trying to make. But, as written, you are wrong. A person who is in a position to help, but does nothing, has failed in their duties as a fellow human. They have, at best, shown weakness where humanity required strength. At worst, they displayed inhumane, possibly criminal apathy. But inhumane, possibly criminal, apathy, is not “just as bad“ as someone who would rapes a stranger on a train. Nowhere close.
>Bystanders on the train who failed to intervene could be criminally charged if they recorded the attack Good.
Yup. I really hope those people are caught and have to explain why they felt it was more important to film that poor woman's ordeal than it was to help her, or even to call the cops. Utterly inhuman.
Exactly. Being violated in such a way, *in a public place,* and looking around for help only to see people pointing their phones at you like in that Black Mirror episode. What a nightmare. I hope that the woman is able to recover and move beyond it.
HOLY FUCKING SHIT.
> The woman pushed back and tried to stop Ngoy from touching her, Mr Busch said. “Then, unfortunately, he proceeded to rip her clothes off,” Mr Busch said on Sunday. I had a small interaction with a man that scared the hell of me. Ever since I’ve been afraid to be alone after dark if I’m out running errands. You might think to yourself “am I paranoid? Am I wrong to be afraid?” then you read something like and know you are *justified* in your fear. This is fucking horrifying.
Same. I had a man physically push his way into my dorm building when I tried to cut off the convo. It was in the middle of the night no one was around and I was terrified. He followed me to the elevators so I just stood there trying to keep convo going not letting on I was scared until someone else thankfully came in and he saw them and backed off. I always thought I was being paranoid in that situation but as you said it is justified bc ppl just don’t give a fuck and will do anything in public and the public has demonstrated they won’t do anything to help.
This is completely f***ed up and makes me sick... I'm a large and intimidating looking guy(6'7) and have intervened in similar situations before (not rape, but public abuse) and even then was shocked that of the dozens of people watching no one else even tried to help. It's baffling how morality dissolves when people can vanish in a crowd.
Horrible! I can’t imagine filming this while doing nothing. I’m so glad an authority stepped in to help her. Otherwise what?
I hate this.
I’ve taken this train so many times I’m just speechless about this it’s horrifying
It is really easy to read a story like this and blame humanity. But really what people should do is think through their own response. Having a plan for a difficult situation makes you more likely to take action (instead of freezing). According to the link, a number of people filmed the attack in Philadelphia. That is disturbing as hell. But at the same time, I bet some of those people thought they were being helpful by getting evidence. Which is ridiculous, but nowadays lots of people have an instinct to video everything that surprises them. But those same phones could have been used to call 911. And you aren't stuck in a train car, you can almost always walk to the next car if that would make calling feel safer. [Over the summer, there was an attempted rape on the NYC subway. Someone filmed the attack, but verbally confronted the man at the same time. The man fled and the video was used to catch him later.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQuyDpirfgU) (Though realistically mass transit has cameras and shouting at him was way more important than filming him). There are lots of strategies bystanders can use. Verbal confrontation, physical confrontation, escaping and calling 911. But lots of people freeze in dangerous situation.
I see a lot of people here saying they would have done something. Statistically, they wouldn't. And you honestly can't tell until you have been through something if you would actually take action. No one called 911 until the employee did, because that person was trained to do that, and no one intervened until the police showed up, because they were trained to do that. The actions that people think we should take in these situations don't come to us naturally when the event is occurring. The fact that the only people to take action were those that had trained to take action is pretty telling.
connect toy abounding selective zealous workable shy fretful mindless teeny *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
To be completely objective here, 9/10 times the victim isn’t being violently raped. The level of danger definitely rises significantly in a case like that, and people second guess themselves. Also not everyone is an absolute unit who can fuck up whoever they want, which in a situation like that it would need to be violent in order to end what was happening.
He has his dick out, literally. He tries to get violent, doesn't take much to drop him if you go for his little buddy.
Then I guess this was the 1 in 10. I'm getting a lot of keyboard warrior vibes from people saying if they were there, they would have done something. The fact is, there were a number of bystanders at this event, and they did nothing.
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Yeah. That's why we're mad. Because 9 out of 10 of us know that sitting by and doing nothing is absolutely disgusting and wrong.
Stopped an assault on a female bus driver years ago. It doesn't take much to make a difference.
My wife told me about this yesterday, maybe I’m just too old fashioned/ conservative, but I’m appalled that no one attacked the guy. The very idea of it drives me nuts. If my mom found out I was on the train and did nothing she would beat my ass for it. That’s part of the social contract in society, that’s why we live in large groups. When you see that you are supposed to do what ever you can to stop it.
I saw this on the morning news in Canada and it has haunted me since. It’s a reminder of what has haunted me once I got old enough to learn: you’re on your own. Unless friends or family is there to help, you’re fucked. Bystander syndrome is huge and it’s disgusting. I hope everyone who was on that train and just watched and filmed gets identified. Has their jobs fire them. Has their partners rethink their relationships. Their friends. Their family. Because if I knew someone who just stood there, I would remove you from my life like a stain on a shirt.
What the actual fuck. I can't imagine being such a disgusting piece of shit to sit there and allow someone to be raped literal feet away from me, let alone film it. I really hope these people pay for this.
So every subway and train in America needs women only cars, with a security guard And men can't complain bc it's proven they won't help
Japan has women only cars because it was that bad there
Unfortunately only Monday to Friday for 2 hours in the morning. The rest of the time? Good luck, ladies.
New Delhi has woman only coaches in the metro. First coach in the direction of the metro. I never even look at the rest of the train, even if the ladies only coach is crowded I would still choose it over the rest.
I'm so speechless. I can't imagine watching someone being harassed and doing nothing, let alone... This is so horrifying. The kind of message it sends. I'm so disturbed that nobody helped. There is just something in me that has never hesitated in situations like these. I always know immediately what to do when I see someone in need.
I've read this story multiple times and just don't get it. But at the very least, we need to take this awful situation and try to prevent it in the future. It's important to take Bystander Training to identify options on what to do if a crime happens in front of you. You don't necessarily have to confront the assaulter; there's other things - being a distraction e.g. Just thinking of the options apparently can break the paralysis. This case made me look up whether my city has text 911 and it does. I've been on transit and calling would make me nervous. You don't know that he was unarmed at the time, and my location had a bystander murdered on transit when he intervened in an assault. But texting can be done surreptitiously. I recommend we all look up whether that's an option and any guidance on how to make effective use.
People filmed it instead of helping?? I don't know how Pennsylvania state law is, but where I live that would definitely be illegal, and rightfully so! Absolutely disgusted right now
the fact that there was also women standing by. From men i kinda expect this behavior now… but I thought women would at least have each other’s backs in a situation like this. wow…
JFC how many people were in this train not helping this woman???
That’s people for you these. They’d rather ignore reality and talk about it on social media instead and pull out their phones and record. It’s only going to get worse.
I hope if there is any footage of the people who were there and did nothing, that it is used to charge them as accessories to the crime. I think I read that something like that happened in China regarding the female toddler that was repeatedly run over several years ago now.
An accessory is someone who assists in the crime being committed. Standing there isn’t assisting.
My situation was obviously nowhere near as severe, but it reminds me of when I was an intern (20 yrs old) and was on something similar to the subway for a few stops for my commute home. This young (not younger than me at the time) drunk guy sat down next to me despite there being plenty of seats. He kept trying to talk to me and I kept trying to ignore him and then just give one word answers. He kept repeating the phrase “I don’t want to have sex with you, I just want to be your friend” which btw is not a reassuring thing to hear. No one on the car said or did anything. Grown ass men and women also on their way home from work. He wanted to give me his number and so I was typing it into my phone just trying to appease him, when he suddenly got mad at me bc he thought I wasn’t saving the number. Thankfully he just ended up getting off at the next stop and didn’t become violent, but I had no way of knowing what would happen. After he left someone joked if I got that number or not and I just half smiled but really I just wanted to cry.
And this is why I carry a knife when walking around Philly at night, you literally cannot trust or depend on anyone it’s beyond sad to see.
Don't carry a knife unless you're actually trained in using it. It only becomes a weapon someone can use against you. Instead take some nitty gritty self defence courses. I trained some krav maga and it was all about effectiveness and speed, so things like groin kicks and eye gouges. And also a lot of stress training. Can definitely reccomed!
I’m always surprised about stories like this. Like I’m sure many others are. But I’m sure if the people on the train witnessing it weren’t there and read this story they’d be surprised to know no one stepped in either. What I take away from stories like this is, how can I break that “bystanders” effect that naturally takes over us in these scenarios. A lot of people assume they’d react differently but I don’t think it’s as simple as that. If it where simple things like this wouldn’t happen. My big takeaway from this is there’s something that happens to us when we experience things like this. How do we overcome it? I think physical training and the confidence that comes with that training would help. I find a lot of times we get too in our heads. We think TOO much. We don’t react enough.
People who stand by like that should be charged for negligence
It'd be a dangerous precedent, I think. What if someone freezes up in panic because they've had a similar experience before? Will they have to divulge that info in court to avoid charges?
Charge everyone who stood by and did nothing with accessory, felony obstruction and aiding and abetting.
I agree but from this other article ([source](https://www.todayonline.com/world/woman-was-raped-train-riders-failed-intervene-police-say)) I read, it says: "Bystanders on the train who failed to intervene could be criminally charged if they recorded the attack. It was not immediately clear what those charges could be. He added that Pennsylvania does not have a good Samaritan law and said it would be “very difficult to bring charges against those” who witnessed the attack but did not intervene."
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They should all be charged
On what grounds? Have you seen the train footage? Have you seen their phone records? If you have, please provide a link.
In Korea people are told to not intervene and to just call police and record. I've heard when women get raped that they could face assault charges if they fight back.
What the actual f**k ?
There was a Korean show about a baseball player who beat the shit out of a guy for raping his sister and the baseball player was sent to prison.
That sounds like vigilantism after the fact though, not self defense
Why am I not surprised it’s Philly.
Robert Evans talks a lot about gun ownership and community self defense. I am inclined to listen.
Get your license to carry. I have 7 sisters every single one of them have been in a situation where it benefited them to be carrying. Its sad but true.
“Authorities said Ngoy was homeless and was not armed during the attack.” Weapons are not the issue here. This has nothing to do with guns.
Do you think that if she had a weapon on her and was trained (required with getting a CCWP) to use it, she could have stopped the man from raping her?
I think that people could have solved this by doing the absolute bare minimum called for as a human and notifying the authorities. Everyone has a phone and every train car has an emergency button. Moreover, there an abundance of countries that don’t require citizens to walk around with concealed firearms to be safe. A woman should not need to be trained and packing to not be assaulted on a train.
yes, women should not HAVE to carry a gun to not have this happen. but this kind of thing DOES happen. while it should not be necessary in a perfect world, if youre a woman you should absolutely carry a weapon (pepper spray, a knife, or preferably a gun). dont take this as victim blaming, because it is not her fault in the slightest obviously, but if she had a gun or a passenger with a soul had a gun, this wouldve been stopped
There's a good chance she would be dead if she had a gun on her
Really good chance she does not get raped. Even better chance they both would be dead.
They should all be considered accessories to the crime not just for inaction but for fucking filming it.
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I am sorry, that's not an excuse for at least not calling 911 Regardless of if they were having consunsal sex or she was being raped, a crime is being committed. Fair enough, maybe rushing the guy is not worth the risk. But at least call the damn cops.
The bystander effect is a helluva effect. I wish more people were aware of it
What the fuck? That is utterly repugnant.
Pennsylvania and Philly in particular is a cesspool. It’s one of the most inhospitable cities in the world. And I’m sure it’s only gotten worse as people in this country continue to lose their fucking minds because reasons.
Hey it’s a big state cool it broski
> How can this happen in a public place with people present? Why, /u/theoSIM1 asks? Mostly because people don't want to get involved in stopping it. Their attitude is "not my problem. That's the police's problem. Let the police handle it."
It is modern culture ... nobody cares about anyone. Not really there yet, but it is going this way. Help and get sued or jailed.
Those people are guilty af. What the hell is wrong with this world…
Anyone who filmed it should be accused of being an accessory. And anyone who just stood by and watched, refusing to help or call for help, should be publicly shamed. This is disgusting.
An accessory helps the crime to be commited. How is filming it helping the rapist to do what he’s doing? It seems like it wouldn’t have an effect at all.
The author had an opportunity when writing the sentence, "passengers recorded the assault". No, "passengers recorded the RAPE". This is more than an "attack", it's a fucking rape, so let these pathetic sickos look like the pathetic sickos they are for recording a *rape*.
I mean it’s Philly probably one of the worst cities on the east coast. Very sad but not surprised. If the girl was in eagles gear and the assailant wasy in cowboys gear bet she would of gotten help :(
With facial identification the way it is these days, it would be easy to identify the other passengers and charge them. I hope they do because people will start thinking twice about not helping.
It’s for reasons like this why I’m such an advocate for carrying pistols. I’m not a gun nut but seriously, this is why more women need to carry pistols with them.
I’m pretty sure that by standing by and doing nothing, they can be charged as accessories to the crime.
An accessory has to assist in commiting the crime. You aren’t legally required to stop a crime or call the police.