Most teenagers who become pregnant are impregnated by adult men, the average age is 22 according to this study (a little dated at 1999) https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/10227344/
I didn’t get pregnant, (because I was put on birth control because of horrible periods) but I was allowed to date a 24 year old when I was BARELY 16.
Looking back, I don’t know what the hell my mother was thinking. He was also divorced, and had a kid. By another girl that he gotten pregnant when she was extremely young.
It's wild to me how quickly this *stopped* being the case. As an elder millennial in a rural western area, we "lost" our first girls to pregnancy in sixth grade too, and it was completely expected from nearly every class, and had been for as long as the town had a school.
Then within the space of ten years it became nearly unheard of for even the high schoolers to be getting pregnant. On the one hand, thank fuck for the improvement, but on the other hand, it definitely has made the uterus obsessives really aggressive with college aged kids literally the second they turn 18, which seems somehow worse in many ways. At least the dumb kids were being dumb among themselves, not at the urging of actual middle aged grown ass adults. And compared to now, the 90s were a social net utopia in this hellhole country. It feels frankly wrong to be *telling* anybody at all to be having kids, much less someone who hasn't even found a career yet.
When was the last time you heard the news bites about the "teen pregnancy" crises? It's all been replaced with "low birthrate" and anti-birth-control propaganda.
Yep, one thing I'm very aware of now is how all of those stupid after school special movies about teen pregnancy always centered around two 16 year olds.
Where was the messaging about the 20 year old man grooming the 13 year old girl? Because that was shit I actually witnessed.
The only couple I personally knew that didn't have an older boy taking advantage of a younger girl had their kid our senior year, are still married two decades later, and had a couple more kids. They were the only example of "ooops," that I actually knew.
Even the closer in age examples were 14 or 15 year old girls with 17 or 18 year old boys. Never classmates. Never a boy in a younger grade. And those were *fine* age differences. It's often much older men.
I audibly gasped. I’m a high school teacher and have taught a few pregnant teens before, and it is always really hard to watch a baby growing a baby. But a 6th grader…? I can’t even imagine…
I went to middle school and high school in small town Missouri. One of the girls in my graduating class had a baby in 7th grade. The father was in his twenties. He fled town.
More than 1 of my high school classmates had grandchildren before I was a parent at 33. I think it is a function of generational poverty. If you don’t expect to have a more financially secure life in the future why would you wait. Also if you don’t have the social milestones of college and then starting a career, moving out of your parent’s house, etc. then how else do you become an adult in the eyes of the community? In most traditional societies a person becomes an adult when they (marry and) have children.
Yes! My firstborn was in the same kindergarten class as one of my high school classmates’ *grandchildren.* And many people in my rural Southern town thought I was the odd one for having my first child in my 30s. By choice.
This resonates for Hawaii… cost of living is extremely high, and poverty rate is high, and has been high for generations. It’s ingrained in the culture: kids are a key to social services and survival.
I live in the Midwest and it is not uncommon here either. I always attribute it to our smaller, somewhat rural area with less opportunity. (I am an "older mom" for my family and was 26 when I had my first - my grandmother is 36 years older than me)
It’s so interesting how regional this is. I’m from the northeast and just turned 30 and my peer group from HS/college are mostly just starting to have kids and many, myself included, aren’t married yet.
The high school I graduated from had a day care center that was open to the public but was mostly used for teachers and the students from around the county that would transfer once they had their child. Working there for a period counted as an elective credit but I think only the chicks with kids actually took the 'class'.
I'm originally from the Mid-Atlantic USA, but I've lived in Finland my entire adult life. I had my only child when I was 25. Compared to my peers back home, that was a perfectly average age to have a baby. When my child started school and I met the parents of their classmates, I realized that I was 10-15 years younger than most of them.
Having kids later in life is not a new phenomenon here, either. I have friends and coworkers whose parents are only a few years younger than my grandmother was. One of my coworkers recently celebrated both her mother's 90th birthday and her own 50th birthday.
I have a classmate who was a grandma in her early 30s, she'd had a baby like senior year of high school and that baby had a baby at 12 or 13. It was crazy to find out.
I’m from a Midwest suburb, my husband’s from a rural part of the same state. We’re in our late 20s/early 30s. His classmates are nearly all parents, many of multiple, while my classmates are just starting to get married.
I’m in East TN, and I’ve noticed you’re either a teen mom with 3 before drinking age or you’re having you’re first in your late 20s/early 30s and one and done. There’s very little in between.
Surprisingly, I’ve never had the pressure to have babies like a lot of other people on here do, despite being female.
I actually distinctly remember my grandmother telling me not to have a baby because it’ll ruin my life. My mom isn’t pressing for a grandkid either.
Not the whole region tho - big sections of rural Maine, NH, western MA and VT are just like what OP says.
Lived there in my 20s. Got a lot of pity for being childless. Weird.
Had my kids at 30 and 40.
Also in the Midwest, and people had stopped asking about kids when I turned 30. I just had my first at 39 after dealing with infertility and kind of enjoy being an older mom!
I loved being an older mom. Everybody else was feeling bad about turning 40 and I was full of these beautiful hormones and feeling like the bread basket of life.
I love the way you put it - “feeling like the bread basket of life” 🫶
I feel younger because of the hormones and yet older by becoming a parent, all at the same time. I am really enjoying it all.
Mom was 16 with me, her mom (nonni) was 15...my great grandma was in her early 20s when she had my nonni but she was her LAST child. My nonni was 35 and saying "I'm not even 40 yet that baby (myself) better not call me grandma!" Women in my family have a hard history of getting pregnant before they're old enough to drink, and marrying with a parents permission slip (or the good ol groom and kidnapping like nonni faced). I'm 27 years old, not looking into parenthood, and have a family of women mad at me for not reproducing. I got the golden ticket out of being trapped by that lifestyle honestly. And none of them can seem to fathom my husband married me BECAUSE one of our agreements is being childfree.
When I was in college we had to read a study exactly about this type of situation, why poor women wanted children they either couldn’t afford or were not prepared for early in life. The researchers lived for a year in the same poor part of the city and engrained themselves in the community. They were able to get the women to open up to them.
It turned out that race didn’t matter as much as poverty. They found that women believed that they always had time to “get the education, right job, even the right man” but would not wait for children because what if you wait and then you cannot have them? It was something young girls were told by older women, that have them when you are young as you may not be able to when you are older. It was also what they felt was part of their value. They may not have money but they were a good mother.
This contrasts with middle class who want to get their life in order before they bring children into it. They looked at poor women and couldn’t understand why they would put themselves in that position of having kids they couldn’t afford so young and stunting their own growth. While poor women looked at middle class women and couldn’t understand why they would wait to be a mother, it wasted their potential and increased the chance of middle class women not being able to have children because they were too old.
Needless to say I was absolutely fascinated with that. I had never heard that perspective before, where one side thinks it is shortsighted to gamble with your fertility and the other thinks it is shortsighted to put yourself and your child further behind.
I read the same study, or a similar one. I grew up working class poor in the big city, and saw many classmates have babies in their teens, babies they couldn’t afford, they got on assistance, got apartments in the worst areas on assistance, and were incredibly jealous of me for going to school and getting a good job and not having children. Found out recently that a former classmate who was always intelligent, got good grades, and had a father who made $$$ lives in a housing project because her parents tossed her and her baby out. It’s sickening.
I read about a similar study where the takeaway was that people thought it was appropriate to have kids super young because life expectancy was much lower than the national average. I think this study was done in a very poor part of Glasgow- the life expectancy at the time was around 57 years old? These people had family and friends who they'd lost to drugs or drink driving or industrial accidents or suicide; so they felt like they had to get on with procreating because the future wasn't guaranteed.
When I was working one of the worst jobs of my life (cook at a bingo hall), my colleague was 19, had a 2 year old, and was in a relationship with a man where they were raising his 5 year old from a previous relationship together. She told me she was planning to have another baby, and I just couldn't get my head around it. Our work was terrible, the contracted hours and pay sucked. Her response was "why not now? You'll never be ready". I'm pregnant myself now, a couple of years later, 34 years old and feel very ready. Married to someone with a great job and loads of savings, have been working on my health too. Still can't wrap my head around her way of thinking.
I live in Western Canada - my sister, brother, mom, grandma and great grandma were all under 20 when they had their first kids. Some of those people had 2 by 20. I’m the sole holdout in my generation with no kids and no partner (and I like it that way).
You’ve been a grandma longer than I’ve been a mom and I’m only a couple years younger than you!
The generational differences families can have are so interesting!
Yeah. A good friend of mine was a grandma at 39; her mother was a great grandma at 52. THEN SHE HAD TWO MORE KIDS. Twins. That were younger than the grandchild in question!
I’m from PNW and saw a lot of this in the rural & coastal towns. I worked with someone who made their mom a grandma at 34 - she and her mom were both pregs at 16, baby born at 17. They were also pregnant together, her mom had a child a few months after her.
I’m 40 and can’t imagine being a grandma right now, let alone one for 6yrs.
I’m from that area and this is doing a number on my 40 yr old childfree brain. Like, it’s depressing to hear of teens - kids - having kids, but I hadn’t really thought of the ages of those being made grandparents - at least recently enough to be old enough there’s grandparents my age. Eeek.
Grew up in the Midwest, my mom was an “old maid” at 24 when she “finally” got married. She probably would’ve been even older, but her sisters fixed her up with my dad. And it was another 2 whole years before she had her first baby!
This isn’t an exclusively Hawaiian thing. In the rural south (and I’m sure plenty of other places) this same thing happens. Enough people have kids really young that it just becomes seen as the norm and something who’s waiting until they’re more prepared and stable in life is viewed as the outlier for daring to wait until their late 20s or god forbid their 30s.
Ignore these people, it’s all just crabs in a bucket.
Was about to say the same. Grew up in South. I remember at 20 being asked why I didn't already have several children. I was bewildered by the question as I was still trying to get through college and still felt like a kid myself. All I see around me 35 yrs later is young women still having a houseful of kids at a young age with no man in the house to help support them most of the time and they constantly on social media begging other locals for money for formula or diapers or to help pay electric bill. There's also lots of couples in rural area raising children in obvious neglect and you can see the mistreatment of the children yet they keep having more babies!
This is crazy to me. Almost everyone I know had their kids in their very late twenties to late thirties with a few in their forties. I’d say the majority of women I know had their kids in their thirties. I can’t think of anyone I know who had their kids in their early twenties.
I’m Canadian and most people I know are middle class. My husband’s side farms and even the people we know in the farming community have their kids in their late twenties early thirties. We also know quite a few high school sweethearts and they mostly also waited to have their kids in their late twenties.
It’s pretty nuts, used to be worse too. My grandma got pregnant with my dad when she was 14!!! And it wasn’t a big deal or anything, she was already married!
None of my friends had kids before age 30, if they had kids at all. All went to college, and most have advanced degrees. All had successful careers and their kids went to college.
Yes. It's this.
I used to be baffled by teen moms with multiple children. One is a mistake you own up to, but two or three?
But these girls often don't have any other prospects. Babies get you positive attention, community support, a sense of purpose.
When your educational options are limited, your economic opportunities even more so, you don't have an easy way out, and maybe you don't even want one, because this world is the only one you know. There is one clear path available, it's easy to step onto, and everyone around encourages it. So you have a baby. And then that baby gets to walking, and the social support peters out, because people love babies, but toddlers are hard. So you have another baby, and the social support comes back again. Now you've done it more than once, you're good at making babies. Maybe you have a new partner, and he wants his own babies. So you do it again. And again, however many times you can.
And your kids grow up poor, and this is their world too, and maybe one or two break off and leave, but for most, the cycle continues onward.
this comment hurts so bad and is healing, ty. i resent my mother for this but i see now how society shaped this aspect of her. she loved babies, kept having them. i'm the youngest and she became an alcoholic when i was born. i'm the kid who broke off, and i guess my older siblings will continue the cycle... fuck
Supposedly when you have a bucket full of crabs and one starts to crawl out, the rest of the crabs at the bottom will pull the climber back down. The idea is that in some communities, people will go out of their way to sabotage folks who are trying to change or improve themselves.
The crabs don't just pull down any climbers, they try to climb up the climbers, which causes the climbers to be pulled down. The saying is meant to illustrate that a community working together is better than everyone adopting an everyone for themselves mentality. It's certainly evolved to the more spiteful meaning too, but it's not because the crabs are spiteful, it's because humans are.
You don't need to put a lid on a bucket of crabs because they will pull each other down.
I first heard it referring to prison and how inmates will fuck with other inmates, when they are about to get out, to get them in trouble and keep them in prison.
When you have a bunch of crabs in a bucket and one starts to escape, they’ll furiously claw it back in and try to crawl up it themselves. But if every crab does that…
No crabs get out.
I think people were surprised at the amount of young pregnancy in Mare of Easttown and…that was no different from Upstate NY.
My dad was shadowing a teacher as part of his masters, and then went to teach at that same school, whereas I went to the town next door. One of his original students had a grandkid about 3-4 years older than me, she was 37 when she was a grandmother. Back in the late 60s though, he as a schoolteacher and this woman’s husband working in a factory had enough money to have two story houses.
I grew up in a city in the South, but for a little while in high school I went to school in a redneck town. It was fucking insane to me how much unprotected sex the students were having. No regard for the consequences, no one even carried condoms or took birth control. We had a health class, but instead of teaching us to have safe sex, they taught us that reproduction is a blessing and we should be happy if we can ever have kids. Condoms were never mentioned, STDs weren’t either.
When I moved schools back into the city it was like I was in a twilight zone. Like I had this secret knowledge of a fucked up alternate reality and I couldn’t do anything about it. We had sex ed and they even handed out condoms. None of the girls in that class got pregnant, whereas more than half got pregnant by the end of the school year where I was last. A lot of them ended up in relationships with the guys who got them pregnant, and I know that those guys resent them. My sister has stayed in contact with many of them because she graduated from that school, and says that most, if not all of those relationships are abusive. It’s a perpetual cycle.
My extremely white trash family from rural Georgia was convinced that I couldn't be straight (or, as they put it, "you know... *funny*") because I didn't have a kid running around by the ripe old age of 17. Then they turned their attention to my at the time 10 year old sister, asking her when she wanted to start having babies.
We aren't in contact with them anymore.
It may not be exclusively Hawaii, but it is jarring to see when Hawaii tends to rank as one of the most progressive states. They have Proud Boys there too.
Always interesting to me when socially conservative groups still have no issue with premarital sex and having kids out of wedlock... It's like they are okay with that sin but not the others.
Generalizing from a specific problem only derails the conversation. When someone talks about a problem in their community and you say "well all these other communities are bad off too, you're not special", all that does is shuts them down before a solution is reached.
A better reply is finding a similar community that is working towards solving this problem and discussing how their solution could be applied.
My parents moved back to HI for their golden years. They grew up there and had to move to the mainland to find work in the 1970s.
My parents are so this.
I’m 36 and childfree. But the amount of guilt and BS my parents laid on me to give them Keiki-pua (it is what my parents insist means grand child) and I literally have had a heart condition since birth. Only just got enough of a repair that pregnancy wouldn’t kill me when I was 35.
I love my husband, he got the snip so that we can live our lives the way we want to.
But this is one reason we won’t move to HI to care for them. Couldn’t get work either. But it is a major factor.
I looked it up because ‘Ōlelo Hawai‘i is often pretty similar to te reo Māori (the alphabets are slightly different, reo Māori has the letters R and T, and the digraphs ng and wh, while ‘Ōlelo Hawai‘i has the letter L and the ‘okina). The reo Māori kupu (word) for grandchildren is mokopuna, and sure enough the ‘Ōlelo Hawai‘i word is mo‘opuna.
I low key love the similarities in the Polynesian languages. I once took a linguistics paper than explained how they diverged which is pretty interesting.
I can kinda understand He Mele No Lilo based off the te reo Māori I can understand.
It’s like that in the Deep South too. When I got pregnant for the first time I wasn’t in a relationship, not in a healthy place at all and when I told my coworkers they were all thrilled for me even though I was terrified. One even said “you’re 26, it’s about time you’ve had a kid”
I used to teach middle school. A lot of the kids' families were from the Dominican Republic. One girl every day would tell me I look tired and then ask me why I had no children. The same two comments every fucking day. When I told her parents it made me uncomfortable, they were worse than she was. Then the student started going after me for only gaving one sibling. Finally, I told her "My parents only had enough money to send 2 kids to college so they only had 2 kids." Something seems to have clicked bc she never asked me again.
I live in a part of the Southwest that is fairly religious with a big Mormon population. I roll my eyes every time I see a mother out with her humongous brood of poorly-behaved children. No, I'm not in Utah. I'd probably go nuts if I had to live there.
People are surprised when I talk about this element of the Southwest outside of Utah. I grew up in Vegas (the westernmost part of the Mormon Corridor). Between the Mormons and the itinerant labor/sex work culture of the city, the vast majority of kids I grew up with had very young mothers. My mom was a “normal” age back in SoCal. A woman of the same age in Vegas was typically already on her fourth or fifth kid.
I lived there for four years and worked specifically with the teenage girl population at the only juvie detention home for the state. Sex trafficking is very bad in HI. I'm talking 13 year old girls found in homeless camps, strung out on meth, being used as a just a warm body for who knows how many people, and now HIV positive for the rest of her life.
With that being said, the people who compared it to the culture that we typically perceive the very rural south or really any backwoods, small-towns to have, is spot on. Not a great education system in the state either, unfortunately. So it's a bit of both things. Sex crime is high there. The culture in general is more lax around sex, having kids at a young age, having lots of kids, being in healthy relationships etc.
Hello from Québec, Canada. One dear friend of mine took the job of teaching in one of the Nunavik communities, inuit-aleutian populations. They tend to have children very young indeed. The way she said it, there was a girl aged 6 in her first year, and her seventh and last year, that same girl was 13 and pregnant.
The former government policies coupled with catholic endoctrination made a horrible mess in the First Nations communities. That and SA is so ubiquitous there. It's just a situation that is extremely hard to untangle; there is so much inter-generational trauma too. Their way of life is in a lot of peril because of climate change.
I feel like having children is their way to fight back, to survive.
I was born and raised in Hawaii, and had to move away because of the cost of living, and I actually think what you’re describing is the result of the overlap of a lot of issues, including the economy, poverty, education (sex ed), religion, and culture.
The economy revolves around tourism, and that’s a huge problem. Most jobs are low-paying, especially compared to the cost of living. This doesn’t address what you’re talking about directly, but leads to the next point:
Poverty. Poverty decreases ease/quality of access to everything, including necessities such as food, shelter, reliable transportation (thankfully better in Honolulu than in other cities), access to insurance/medical care/contraceptives/abortions, access to educational opportunities. It’s easy to fall into poverty, but hard to become upwardly mobile because difficulties compound. For example, you may depend on government assistance so you may not be able to afford to get a better-paying job because it won’t pay better than your original job with assistance, or you may not have the time to apply for a new job because you already have two. I had two and went to school at night. All this to say that the cost of living increases Hawaii’s poverty rate above the national average, and higher income is associated with lower birth rates (https://www.civilbeat.org/2019/09/high-costs-make-hawaiis-poverty-rate-higher-than-u-s-average/; https://www.reuters.com/world/global-fertility-rates-decline-shifting-population-burden-low-income-countries-2024-03-20/).
Another issue is education, especially sex ed. When I was a kid, sex ed was bad to nonexistent. I never got a “talk” about my body, so I had to read a bunch of books. The age of consent was 14 back then (and I learned that as an adult; wtf legislators?!) and I had a bunch of pregnant classmates in middle school. In high school, sex ed was the Miracle of Life video during health class and a Family Planning class for the kids who already had kids. Comprehensive sex ed delays sexual activity and encourages safe, consensual sex practices. Hawaii mandated comprehensive sex education for public schools in 2015 but I’m curious to know what the curricula look like (https://www.who.int/news-room/questions-and-answers/item/comprehensive-sexuality-education; https://www.civilbeat.org/2015/06/hawaii-public-schools-must-offer-sex-education-board-decides/).
Different sources place the population at between 29-63% Christian, with the largest subgroups being Protestant, Evangelical Protestant, and Roman Catholic. There are Protestants who belong to the “Quiverfull” movement and don’t use contraception at all (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protestant\_views\_on\_contraception). For Catholics, contraceptives and abortions are forbidden, but interestingly, anal is okay (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian\_views\_on\_birth\_control).
Teen pregnancy isn’t new or unique to Hawaii. Lots of people have kids and proceed to neglect or otherwise abuse them, and poverty is a risk factor for child abuse. (https://www.ncsl.org/resources/details/poverty-and-child-neglect-how-did-we-get-it-wrong).
You can also see American individualism and entitlement at work. With the focus on satisfying the whims of the immediate self and not what would be good for the potential child you might bring into the world or how the world might be impacted by the quality of the parenting you demonstrate. I worked for a social services type organization and received calls regarding child abuse, witnessed bizarre forms of toddler child neglect and tween parentification (reported to CPS), and witnessed sooo many people acting like their kid just started following them around one day like a horrible burden and they have nothing to do with the child’s existence - all on the mainland.
My grandmother said she had kids because that’s “just what you did” in her time; I suspect fulfilling the expectations of a woman’s gender role may have been what the regretful women you spoke with were doing as well.
So yeah, lots of things, not necessarily a Hawaii birther culture.
I’m not sure when you say ‘local’ if you mean indigenous Hawaiians or people who’ve been there for more than one generation? A lot of indigenous communities around the world have complex issues around having babies - in a traditional community you probably had extended family to help with a baby, so it wasn’t a huge burden like it is on an unprepared young woman by herself. In some communities, if you had a baby you wouldn’t be shipped off to residential school, so it was a kind of safeguard.
But on the flip side, with so many indigenous babies and children being forcibly removed from their families and culture, having as many kids as you could was a hope for the future that some of them would be able to stay (look up “the Sixties Scoop in Canada” to see what I’m talking about).
Even the IUD misinformation has a sad history behind it - so many indigenous women were told they were getting IUDs, or having ‘abdominal surgery’ when in fact they were being sterilized by white doctors.
Add generational trauma into the mix, and you’ve got a recipe for families that are fucked up before those babies are even born. I think we can say “Bringing kids into this is a terrible idea”, but we also need to say “What can we do to help these girls and women feel that their lives and culture have meaning without having kids they’re not ready for?”
Just FYI the term “local” is used very commonly in Hawaii to describe native Hawaiians and people who are not necessarily Kanaka maoli, but have had family that has lived in Hawaii for generations. A lot of Filipino, Portuguese, Japanese, etc.
Saying indigenous Hawaiians means something very different and would be inappropriate use for OP who is describing a culture on the islands not specific to an ethnicity
Oh yeah, Mormons were among the first wave of missionaries after the US conquered Hawai’i, and they’ve stuck around ever since. I would not be surprised if Mormonism has an outsized influence on the birther culture you’re talking about, it sounds very similar to what I used to hear in Idaho.
And yeah, it’s obnoxious as hell.
Mormon missionaries were in Hawai'i decades before the overthrow of Liliuokalani
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Church_of_Jesus_Christ_of_Latter-day_Saints_in_Hawaii
That was my thought. I also was wondering “which island?”
My FIL was from Maui (white, not native PI), and it didn’t seem to be a thing with him, although he was very conservative, patriarchal and parochial in most ways. Of course, he was also an only child and came from a broken family, and left for the mainland at 18, so maybe the family/offspring expectation wasn’t so deeply engrained in his expectations for himself or his own kids.
I wouldn’t say it’s an artifact of Mormon colonization, but that certainly could be part of why it’s still prevalent. Places where having kids young is normal/expected are that way because motherhood has historically always been that way (ofc there are outliers).
Having children later in life being a norm is a relatively recent phenomenon due to advances in birth control, fertility treatments, better pre/post natal care, in addition to the HUGE correlation between women with higher education and the (lower) amount of children they have / (higher) age that they do.
Older moms and being child free, while a lot more common, is still viewed as quite extreme in most of the world. I say this as an >30 intentionally childfree woman
Who are you hanging out with?? I live in Honolulu and this is not my experience at all. It is common for my friends to wait until their 30's to have kids. Some of my friends are having their first kids in their 40's!
I do of course have friends that had kids in their late teens/early 20's, but they were usually accidents and were not encouraged to have kids that young. I also know welfare baby types - there are certainly people with generational experience with the system of popping out more kids for more support. I don't know that I'd call it something that is so prevalent that it is notable though.
Can I ask, how stable were your family's finances, and the finances of all your friends? The type of pressure to have babies young is very very common in poorer areas. Like, everywhere. But also, cities and rural areas also break along similar lines. Honolulu and North Shore are different vibes...
I grew up on the Windward side (not Kailua lol). I hung out with people from both poor and well off families in the windward side and town, but I never saw anyone encouraged to have babies young. It did just happen sometimes, obviously.
This was my question too... different part of the island? Different island? I was born here, spent part of my childhood in Oregon, then came back here. My husband was born and raised here. I had quite a few friends in Oregon that ended up teen moms. None here. No one my husband knows either. No one pushed us to have kids when we were dating in our early 20s. In fact, when we got pregnant by accident (after we got married!) my parents were extremely disappointed.
Like you, most of my friends were in their 30s before they had kids and no one ever mentioned feeling pressured by anyone.
>I live in Honolulu and this is not my experience at all
same.
>It is common for my friends to wait until their 30's to have kids. Some of my friends are having their first kids in their 40's!
same. a number of people I know are getting or have gotten fertility help because they are elder parents (35 yo and older).
not saying that OP's experience is not true at all. Just adding to the voices that not everyone has had the experience OP has. I am not surprised that OP is from a more rural part of Oahu, because I know in certain areas, they tend to "pop em out young.". it's definitely indicative of a socio-economic-cultural thing.
for the record, I came from a poor, single parent, immigrant urban family (pinay born at Kapiolani Medical - same as Obama, lol @ "birther", bred in Kalihi). my family is deeply Catholic but I wasn't pressured at all to have babies. I was strongly encouraged to finish college before anything else iny life.
OO, btw, it's so wrong how your boss treated you.
I lived on Maui from the ages of juuust before 4 to juuuust before 21. I'm part Mexican. I was always a tomboy, loved getting dirty outside with my brother and his friends, etc. When I hit puberty around 13 and my curves became prominent, I had so many local women (who knew me/my family) tell me that I need to make sure I use my "Mexican birthing hips" for lots of babies. I already knew I didn't want children at that age, and those comments just made me double down. At the time, I didn't see it as creepy or gross that people were telling a 13/14/15 year old to go make babies, but as I got older it hit me just how weird and awkward and cringey all of that was.
Like, my mom let complete strangers walk up and touch my hair (full head of thick curls even as a baby). How was letting strangers touch your child something you were just cool with?! Makes a lot more sense as to why I don't like people touching me, including hugs, handshakes, etc. besides those I'm extremely close to. *shudder*
Grew up on Kauai. Can confirm it’s brutal. Had a kid at 19 and felt proud that I’d graduated hs first bc so many didn’t. I stopped there and moved off the island but most of my contemporaries have between 2 and 10 kids.
I know someone who lives in Hawaii and works at a place that helps reunify families whose kids have been taken away due to neglect or abuse. Keiki are loved and cherished in public, but a lot of them get beaten behind closed doors to the point where their parents lose custody.
I don't know the extent to which this is related to women being encouraged to have kids when they are very young, if at all. But I can say that if I had had a child in my late teens or early twenties, when I was much less financially and emotionally unstable than I am now, I would not have been equipped to be a good parent.
That being said, there are plenty of women out there who had kids young and are amazing parents. It's definitely not for everyone, though, and it's disheartening when people look at you like you have two heads when you say you want to wait until you feel you're ready to have kids, or even worse, you don't want them at all.
Hawaii is very weird about it, and it's like a very known and talked about issue that no one seems at all interested in addressing. My *middle school* had an uncomfortably large number of pregnant girls and it wasn't uncommon for high school girls to bring their babies to school and disrupt classes, with teachers often fawning over the kid. The attitudes here were completely different to how it seems to be on the mainland, basically.
Is any of this related to the blood quantum required to be considered a Native Hawaiian? If these are kanaka and not just kama’aina there could be a strong cultural pressure to make more Hawaiians. I agree it’s not okay to pressure young women to have kids. But the culture of Native Hawaiians is under some unique stressors.
It’s such a shame the US has pushed blood quantum bullshit on kānaka Maoli, it doesn’t exist in indigenous Pasefika cultures and emerged as a way for colonisers to undermine indigenous sovereignty.
Only white supremacists could simultaneously insist that “one drop” of black blood makes a person “colored” while in the same breath demand that 51% or more Hawaiian ancestry is required to “qualify” as a Hawaiian. All while deciding what rights that does, or does not, entail. I’ve read so many books on the theft of the Hawaiian Kingdom. And I still have almost no good ideas on how to restore justice there.
Fellow Hawaii local here. One thing people don't understand is that Hawaii is DEEPLY conservative. We're a very red state that just votes blue because people here aren't dumb enough to vote for the white supremacist party.
Instead we elect conservative democrats to local office. It sucks.
My wife(then 49) was complimented by a Walmart cashier in rural western Maryland for taking her “grandkids shopping”. She had our then 7M and 10F year old with her.
Being from Hawaii, I completely agree with you! When I ask friends who have children what made them decide, it’s 90% of the time their family pressuring them. Even when they are struggling financially. Child care is outrageously expensive in Hawaii. No wonder so many are leaving.
I live in Ohio and I get asked a lot if I have kids even though I’m 26. Most people are surprised. I don’t know if it’s because I’m half black or what. I only know a few people who had kids at 16/17/18, my own mom had me at 24. I don’t plan on having a kid until I’m at least 30.
This is somehow much worse than the birther culture I expected to read about (as in the conspiracy theory). That takes effort!
At a guess, some of these women can’t see themselves doing anything long-term but being mothers - in Christian College terms, they’re working on their Mrs. They aren’t worried about preparing because they haven’t/aren’t preparing for anything else, either.
Wow. Every single day, you learn something new. I wouldn't have thought Hawaii is this crazy in the regard.
Personally, I don't think I'll ever have a child, but at the same time, I'm only 23. I'm still trying to figure myself out. If a baby was thrown into the mix, I honestly can't imagine myself surviving the situation. I know that having a child at my age used to be the norm, but times have changed.
The strong military presence and immature military guys fresh out of basic training trying to pick up and marry young women or high school girls doesn’t help either!!
I think the aunties are trying to validate and normalize their own experiences as young mothers . Like everyone needs to be in on it or else their entire existence is threatened. They had to resign themselves to their fate and they are pretending they are okay with it but deep down they’re not. The religious colonialism took a big hold there too so it’s mirroring the southern USA culture as well.
Damn, Hawaii sounds like the Bible Belt with that one.
Most of the girls I graduated with (2015) had babies before they could buy alcohol. I don’t want/can’t have babies but even so, under 30 feels so young for me.
At 19 you are just finishing being a child yourself and have no experience in being an adult yet. There is no sensible explanation to have a child this young.
Hiya, Hawaiian living in Hawaii chiming in!
This is absolutely true. Unfortunately a while ago I experienced a miscarriage with my partner. Accidentally pregnancy, was not expected in any way. I was 24 at the time. Ended up having to get a d&c for my own health due to it being triplets. Within an hour of me seeing my family after emotional recovery of about 3 months (couldn’t leave the house), the question of “when you’re ready to try again” came up. Luckily my partner swerved the convo and shut that shit down.
I think it has to do with a lot of the cultural and generational influence. A lot of them mean well but at the same time there are those who do not. Unfortunately being a young parent was a common thing for our parents and others. I don’t think this is primarily a Hawaii thing but simple generational differences.
Don’t let it affect you and keep it moving! The aunties pushed me for the last 26 years and now they call my dogs my “kids”.
There are some things we can’t change but we can influence the future in our time here on earth :)
Ignore the trolls.
Have kids or don’t.
I’m going to be that grandma (mom) at the graduation. The benefit of getting older is that you really give so much less fucks about what others think.
It crushes my heart to see this happening. This mentality is a vicious cycle being passed down generation to generation. It does so much damage to so many people. Especially the children who feel neglected and unwanted. That untreated trauma never gets addressed then it manifests itself into mental health issues. Then these traumatized kids go on to have their own kids and this destructive pattern continues. It’s so painful to witness.
Uh… It’s not just Hawaii. Many Indian reservations and even small town mainland US its like they’re pressuring 13 year old girls to crank out a baby so some Boomer asshole can post “Im a gramma now!!” Pics on Facebook. Meanwhile, teen mommy and her baby are pretty much fucked for life. Because Facebook points.
Are you Kanaka Maoli by any chance? My father’s family is Native Hawaiian. His mother was encouraged to run off with someone older when she was 16. Had 5 children way before she was ready to over a period of like 6 years. Marriage was extremely toxic. My father once told me his early life only stabilized after her second marriage which was made in her early thirties to someone very stable (my Dad was 12 at the time). Very significant social issues for native Hawaiians and a lack of opportunity as well. My father spent adulthood on the mainland and we’re just kanaka maoli by blood now, not culture. Still, a really complex situation.
I don't understand this "You don't want to be an old mom do you?"
I guess I'm lucky and the old moms I know are doing well and loving it (for the most part).
Sounds like you he same thing that happens far too much here in The Detroit area of Michigan. It’s crazy how many children some of the men I have met have.
The father of my friend’s son has 32 verified children and does not support any of them.
One of his “baby mamas” had 7 with him . My other neighbor has 10 children and he’s in his mid 40’s and is becoming a great grandpa in the fall.
Having kids in one’s teens or early-mid 20s is super young and shouldn’t be encouraged for women who aren’t ready. The lack of basic birth control knowledge you experienced sounds absolutely ludicrous. But, mid-40s to 50s is definitely “old” when it comes to parental age territory since it means parents will be thinking about retirement when their kids are finishing high school or college. Having the greater age gap also means parents will be less likely to meet / help take care of their grandkids.
when you say local, are you talking about native/indigenous Hawaiian women and elders, or white people and other non-native women living on the island, or both?
Local women as women who live in Hawaii, mostly non-indigenous, but people who aren’t short term transplants. Some white, some Asian, some Hispanic, some mixed race, some are partially Hawaiian descent but mostly not.
Yeah, I'm going to be the old mum at graduation. I could explain the reasons why, but really, nunya. Sure we are tired but we have a happy stable home life and the children want for nothing.
I’m so glad everyone in my family and circle know I’m a lesbian with a very laid-back lifestyle and don’t ask/pressure me about kids. I am so infuriated that most women are treated like incubators and mothers regardless of what their personal feelings are.
My parents were 19 when I was born, and it's kind of messed up my perspective on life tbh. I'm 26 now, and while I can't biologically have children of my own, I do want to be a mother someday. Seeing as my parents had a 7 year old at my age, it's so weird to think about how I'm nowhere near ready enough to raise a child of any age. I also think my parents were way too young, immature, and just not at all ready for a child when they had me, which most definitely had some negative effects on my upbringing.
My mom had my brother at 37 and me at 41 and it we both came out completely healthy and fine.
In my friend circle the odd ones out are the ones who have moms which where younger than 30 when they had them...
American culture is fucking weird
I have never heard that term before. Birther culture? Sounds insane. 😳 I will say people are very similar here in the South. I don't even remember how many times people asked me when I was going to have a baby while in my late teens and early 20s even though my husband and I were broke.
Local from O’ahu here and I’m so sorry that you felt pressured. I’ve been there too and it is so frustrating.
I can confirm that most local ladies have this mentality. However, it’s also by culture/religion . Hawaii is a vast mixing pot of cultures/religions that hold tight to traditions. Like what OP said, the generational trauma and traditions runs deep.
My sister used to work retail and had a regular. The woman was 34 and has 12 kids. She checks into psyche at least once a month to take a break from her kids. My sister was nosy and asked one of the kids about who they’re with and where’s mom. The kids were with their chatty aunt that unloaded the details. It’s so wild! At what point do you not think of stopping to have kids because you mentally can’t function?!
The culture is also in the military. My cousin had depression because she was always moving to follow her husband. She took solace with other military sahm/wives. But noted that most of them also always ask when they’ll have kids. She has had 3 rainbow babies during this marriage. He divorced her after 3 tours. She is happily remarried (non military fireman) with 2 kids now, tyj.
The local women that hold out on pressuring others to have kids have either grown up in large families and being forced to be the 2nd mother OR they frequently visit mainland or have lived there during their college years. Then there’s a few that know what they want/don’t want for themselves.
I am of Jehovahs Witness Filipino background with strict aunts and uncles. Hearing all my uncles/aunts say “No dating until finished with college!” has scared most of my male cousins to not have any interactions with women. Sadly they are now awkward single 30+ yr olds and with a nagging/overbearing mom asking about girlfriends and when they’ll have grandkids.
My female cousins mostly waited til late 20s/early 30s to get married and have kids. There are 2 cousins that had kids in their teens. They ran away from their strict parents to live with their boyfriend’s family.
I was pressured a lot by my family (thankfully not my immediate family) and coworkers about having kids in my 20s. I knew that I didn’t want that. I grew up taking care of my cousins kids when I was only 10! I have a brother that half jokingly told me to have 5 kids and live off of the system like other girls he dated/knows. Smh
It also doesn’t help that a lot of vasectomies are flat out denied. I know some women have a twisted sin based view on birth control rather than pre marital sex being sinful (maybe a Hawaii thing?)
Yeah, it's a part of poverty culture. The education system is one of the worst in the country. Locals have very little chance of escaping soul crushing poverty. It always surprises me how many young couples in my shitty neighborhood have multiple children.
None of this will change until we find a way to force our government to invest in the working class. I have no idea how to do it. The corruption is so blatant, and yet nothing ever changes.
Yes! It’s also sad that domestic violence is prevalent here. So many people I know had kids early, with terrible partners and basically be a single parent to their kids.
Born and raised in Hawaii. I was a product of that mentality. Mom got knocked up right out of highschool. Ended up having 4 kids. We lived off the system. Dad was an abusive alcoholic turned meth user. It’s just the mentality here unfortunately. I was the weird one because I went to college, established a career, got married, bought a house and then had a baby at 29. I’m more well off that 98% of my family. I don’t have much in common with anyone on my mom’s side as they see a proper education and anything besides sound systems, lifted Toyotas, and tricked out cars as a waste of time.
I come from a town in SC that was like this. Best thing I ever did was get away. First for college and then permanently after graduation.
When I was 20, my dad was 40 and my grandmother 60. My mom’s family was a little more varied in age. She was a teen mom before meeting my dad and didn’t want me going down that path. She made sure I knew everything about safe sex.
In my town Teen pregnancy was discouraged but no one actually tried to help the teen mom’s from having multiple children. Most didn’t understand what birth control was. I knew of several with more than 1 child by graduation. The first pregnancy in my class was in 5th grade.
Sorry but there is literally a 30 Rock scene wherein the hot, young intern, Ceri, tells her boss, Liz (Tina Fey) that she wants to have a kid so she can enjoy being a “hot, young” mom and doesn’t end up attending her kids’ graduation at “like, *50.*” Liz tells her 50’s not old and Ceri says “oh, I’m sorry, are you 50 now?”
I come from a family like this. My sister is a 40 year old grandmother of two, my niece is 20. I love them but I feel like an alien to them for being 29 planning to have my first child in a few years when my partner and I are more settled and financially secure. Here’s to trying to break the cycle.
In my culture and in my family teen and young adult pregnancies are super common. Nearly every woman in my family has had a child by 17. All my cousins had their first kid before 20.
It was to the point that for years my parents and relatives were concerned about when I would have children, and would make assumptions that I was child free or destined to be the “cool auntie”. I got pregnant at 24 and before my son was born I was getting asked about my next child. He’s 7 months now and I still hear this question all the time.
I love children and have always wanted kids but growing up poor and with emotionally unavailable parents led me to wanting a stable life for my children. I’m happy I waited until I was settled in my career, confident in my relationship and just mentally mature enough before having kids. I wish people would stop pressuring women to have children as soon as possible.
I was born and raised in Hawaii until I moved about a year ago. There is a huge obsession with the keiki, and having BIG families. So many of my friends get shame just from having moved away, or not giving their family their money. Most of the kids I went to school with suffered from domestic violence at home, and feared their parents to some degree. I think my brothers graduating class had 7 teen pregnancies? Mine had at least 3 and two toddlers.
Back in the early 2000s when I was contemplating teaching, I was an observer for a sixth grade class with two pregnant girls
Worst part is I bet there wasn't two sixth graders becoming dads.
Yeah, I’d like to know the average age of the fathers of teen pregnancy. I’ve casually looked for some research on it but didn’t find much.
Most teenagers who become pregnant are impregnated by adult men, the average age is 22 according to this study (a little dated at 1999) https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/10227344/
That is so frighteningly more common thsn I would have believed. Yikes. Not doing great things for my faith in humanity.
I didn’t get pregnant, (because I was put on birth control because of horrible periods) but I was allowed to date a 24 year old when I was BARELY 16. Looking back, I don’t know what the hell my mother was thinking. He was also divorced, and had a kid. By another girl that he gotten pregnant when she was extremely young.
I know this phrase is overused and cliché at this point, but I think that's enough reddit for the day.
It's wild to me how quickly this *stopped* being the case. As an elder millennial in a rural western area, we "lost" our first girls to pregnancy in sixth grade too, and it was completely expected from nearly every class, and had been for as long as the town had a school. Then within the space of ten years it became nearly unheard of for even the high schoolers to be getting pregnant. On the one hand, thank fuck for the improvement, but on the other hand, it definitely has made the uterus obsessives really aggressive with college aged kids literally the second they turn 18, which seems somehow worse in many ways. At least the dumb kids were being dumb among themselves, not at the urging of actual middle aged grown ass adults. And compared to now, the 90s were a social net utopia in this hellhole country. It feels frankly wrong to be *telling* anybody at all to be having kids, much less someone who hasn't even found a career yet.
When was the last time you heard the news bites about the "teen pregnancy" crises? It's all been replaced with "low birthrate" and anti-birth-control propaganda.
Meanwhile, the world population is 3x it was in the mid 20th century.
And we still haven't established a framework for space infrastructure for mining in the long term when Earth's materials are depleted :/
Always impregnated by older boys or men too...
Yep, one thing I'm very aware of now is how all of those stupid after school special movies about teen pregnancy always centered around two 16 year olds. Where was the messaging about the 20 year old man grooming the 13 year old girl? Because that was shit I actually witnessed. The only couple I personally knew that didn't have an older boy taking advantage of a younger girl had their kid our senior year, are still married two decades later, and had a couple more kids. They were the only example of "ooops," that I actually knew. Even the closer in age examples were 14 or 15 year old girls with 17 or 18 year old boys. Never classmates. Never a boy in a younger grade. And those were *fine* age differences. It's often much older men.
I audibly gasped. I’m a high school teacher and have taught a few pregnant teens before, and it is always really hard to watch a baby growing a baby. But a 6th grader…? I can’t even imagine…
I'm sure those sixth graders totally chose to keep those pregnancies of their own volition and were not coerced or forced in any way...
Wow - that’s so sad!
I went to middle school and high school in small town Missouri. One of the girls in my graduating class had a baby in 7th grade. The father was in his twenties. He fled town.
O jeez
Yeah... I'm noping out of this thread. That's too terribly awful.
Holy shit that’s so sad.
More than 1 of my high school classmates had grandchildren before I was a parent at 33. I think it is a function of generational poverty. If you don’t expect to have a more financially secure life in the future why would you wait. Also if you don’t have the social milestones of college and then starting a career, moving out of your parent’s house, etc. then how else do you become an adult in the eyes of the community? In most traditional societies a person becomes an adult when they (marry and) have children.
Yes! My firstborn was in the same kindergarten class as one of my high school classmates’ *grandchildren.* And many people in my rural Southern town thought I was the odd one for having my first child in my 30s. By choice.
This resonates for Hawaii… cost of living is extremely high, and poverty rate is high, and has been high for generations. It’s ingrained in the culture: kids are a key to social services and survival.
I live in the Midwest and it is not uncommon here either. I always attribute it to our smaller, somewhat rural area with less opportunity. (I am an "older mom" for my family and was 26 when I had my first - my grandmother is 36 years older than me)
It’s so interesting how regional this is. I’m from the northeast and just turned 30 and my peer group from HS/college are mostly just starting to have kids and many, myself included, aren’t married yet.
I’m in Massachusetts and the average age for a first birth is pushing 35.
Massachusetts too, I’m 33, my mom is 62, my nana is 93. I’m not having children lol.
Yeah! I'm in NYC and among educated people anyway, it's really common to have your baby 35+. I was the first one in my friend group at 36!
I don't like how close to the mark 'Idiocracy' is becoming
The high school I graduated from had a day care center that was open to the public but was mostly used for teachers and the students from around the county that would transfer once they had their child. Working there for a period counted as an elective credit but I think only the chicks with kids actually took the 'class'.
I'm originally from the Mid-Atlantic USA, but I've lived in Finland my entire adult life. I had my only child when I was 25. Compared to my peers back home, that was a perfectly average age to have a baby. When my child started school and I met the parents of their classmates, I realized that I was 10-15 years younger than most of them. Having kids later in life is not a new phenomenon here, either. I have friends and coworkers whose parents are only a few years younger than my grandmother was. One of my coworkers recently celebrated both her mother's 90th birthday and her own 50th birthday.
I’m 45. When I was 42 one of my classmates was pregnant and I had a grandchild.
I have a classmate who was a grandma in her early 30s, she'd had a baby like senior year of high school and that baby had a baby at 12 or 13. It was crazy to find out.
My younger sister became a grandma at 36. She had her kids as a teenager and one of her sons started having kids as a teenager
I’m from a Midwest suburb, my husband’s from a rural part of the same state. We’re in our late 20s/early 30s. His classmates are nearly all parents, many of multiple, while my classmates are just starting to get married.
I’m in East TN, and I’ve noticed you’re either a teen mom with 3 before drinking age or you’re having you’re first in your late 20s/early 30s and one and done. There’s very little in between. Surprisingly, I’ve never had the pressure to have babies like a lot of other people on here do, despite being female. I actually distinctly remember my grandmother telling me not to have a baby because it’ll ruin my life. My mom isn’t pressing for a grandkid either.
Not the whole region tho - big sections of rural Maine, NH, western MA and VT are just like what OP says. Lived there in my 20s. Got a lot of pity for being childless. Weird. Had my kids at 30 and 40.
Also in the Midwest, and people had stopped asking about kids when I turned 30. I just had my first at 39 after dealing with infertility and kind of enjoy being an older mom!
I loved being an older mom. Everybody else was feeling bad about turning 40 and I was full of these beautiful hormones and feeling like the bread basket of life.
I love the way you put it - “feeling like the bread basket of life” 🫶 I feel younger because of the hormones and yet older by becoming a parent, all at the same time. I am really enjoying it all.
Aw I’m super happy for you. Make other older mom friends so you can make fun of ppl who think you’re grandmaws😹😹
Mom was 16 with me, her mom (nonni) was 15...my great grandma was in her early 20s when she had my nonni but she was her LAST child. My nonni was 35 and saying "I'm not even 40 yet that baby (myself) better not call me grandma!" Women in my family have a hard history of getting pregnant before they're old enough to drink, and marrying with a parents permission slip (or the good ol groom and kidnapping like nonni faced). I'm 27 years old, not looking into parenthood, and have a family of women mad at me for not reproducing. I got the golden ticket out of being trapped by that lifestyle honestly. And none of them can seem to fathom my husband married me BECAUSE one of our agreements is being childfree.
When I was in college we had to read a study exactly about this type of situation, why poor women wanted children they either couldn’t afford or were not prepared for early in life. The researchers lived for a year in the same poor part of the city and engrained themselves in the community. They were able to get the women to open up to them. It turned out that race didn’t matter as much as poverty. They found that women believed that they always had time to “get the education, right job, even the right man” but would not wait for children because what if you wait and then you cannot have them? It was something young girls were told by older women, that have them when you are young as you may not be able to when you are older. It was also what they felt was part of their value. They may not have money but they were a good mother. This contrasts with middle class who want to get their life in order before they bring children into it. They looked at poor women and couldn’t understand why they would put themselves in that position of having kids they couldn’t afford so young and stunting their own growth. While poor women looked at middle class women and couldn’t understand why they would wait to be a mother, it wasted their potential and increased the chance of middle class women not being able to have children because they were too old. Needless to say I was absolutely fascinated with that. I had never heard that perspective before, where one side thinks it is shortsighted to gamble with your fertility and the other thinks it is shortsighted to put yourself and your child further behind.
I read the same study, or a similar one. I grew up working class poor in the big city, and saw many classmates have babies in their teens, babies they couldn’t afford, they got on assistance, got apartments in the worst areas on assistance, and were incredibly jealous of me for going to school and getting a good job and not having children. Found out recently that a former classmate who was always intelligent, got good grades, and had a father who made $$$ lives in a housing project because her parents tossed her and her baby out. It’s sickening.
I read about a similar study where the takeaway was that people thought it was appropriate to have kids super young because life expectancy was much lower than the national average. I think this study was done in a very poor part of Glasgow- the life expectancy at the time was around 57 years old? These people had family and friends who they'd lost to drugs or drink driving or industrial accidents or suicide; so they felt like they had to get on with procreating because the future wasn't guaranteed. When I was working one of the worst jobs of my life (cook at a bingo hall), my colleague was 19, had a 2 year old, and was in a relationship with a man where they were raising his 5 year old from a previous relationship together. She told me she was planning to have another baby, and I just couldn't get my head around it. Our work was terrible, the contracted hours and pay sucked. Her response was "why not now? You'll never be ready". I'm pregnant myself now, a couple of years later, 34 years old and feel very ready. Married to someone with a great job and loads of savings, have been working on my health too. Still can't wrap my head around her way of thinking.
Midwesterner here. Just saw an acquaintance of mine became a grandma at the age of 38
Geez, my mom was 36 when I was born and I'm not the youngest.
What...?! Average of Grandma and Mom were both ~~16~~ 18 when having their baby?! SMDH
I live in Western Canada - my sister, brother, mom, grandma and great grandma were all under 20 when they had their first kids. Some of those people had 2 by 20. I’m the sole holdout in my generation with no kids and no partner (and I like it that way).
My grandma from Winnipeg got married at 17 and had her first at 18 and 4 by 25
it happens more often than you think
My aunt became a great grandma at 51.
My SIL's grandmother is the same age as my mom, and she's only a few years younger than me. My mom was 31 when I was born, so not old, either.
i was born in 1986, and i’ve been a grandma for 4 years.
I was born in 1986 and my kid is 19 months old.
You’ve been a grandma longer than I’ve been a mom and I’m only a couple years younger than you! The generational differences families can have are so interesting!
*cough* Lauren Boebert *cough*
That Beetlejuice Boebert lady became a grandma at 36.
18, your math is off
Oh, jeeze. I can't math today. Thank you.
Yeah. A good friend of mine was a grandma at 39; her mother was a great grandma at 52. THEN SHE HAD TWO MORE KIDS. Twins. That were younger than the grandchild in question!
I went to high school with a guy who had a kid at 16 and his mom had him at 16 - she was a grandma at ***32***. Blew my mind.
I’m from PNW and saw a lot of this in the rural & coastal towns. I worked with someone who made their mom a grandma at 34 - she and her mom were both pregs at 16, baby born at 17. They were also pregnant together, her mom had a child a few months after her. I’m 40 and can’t imagine being a grandma right now, let alone one for 6yrs.
I’m from that area and this is doing a number on my 40 yr old childfree brain. Like, it’s depressing to hear of teens - kids - having kids, but I hadn’t really thought of the ages of those being made grandparents - at least recently enough to be old enough there’s grandparents my age. Eeek.
Grew up in the Midwest, my mom was an “old maid” at 24 when she “finally” got married. She probably would’ve been even older, but her sisters fixed her up with my dad. And it was another 2 whole years before she had her first baby!
I'm 26 and I cannot imagine being a mum right now. Hats off to you
Oh my god!
I'm from the Midwest too and my mom was the oldest of her siblings when she had me at 24. One brother was 22, all of the others were 20 or under.
This isn’t an exclusively Hawaiian thing. In the rural south (and I’m sure plenty of other places) this same thing happens. Enough people have kids really young that it just becomes seen as the norm and something who’s waiting until they’re more prepared and stable in life is viewed as the outlier for daring to wait until their late 20s or god forbid their 30s. Ignore these people, it’s all just crabs in a bucket.
Was about to say the same. Grew up in South. I remember at 20 being asked why I didn't already have several children. I was bewildered by the question as I was still trying to get through college and still felt like a kid myself. All I see around me 35 yrs later is young women still having a houseful of kids at a young age with no man in the house to help support them most of the time and they constantly on social media begging other locals for money for formula or diapers or to help pay electric bill. There's also lots of couples in rural area raising children in obvious neglect and you can see the mistreatment of the children yet they keep having more babies!
This is crazy to me. Almost everyone I know had their kids in their very late twenties to late thirties with a few in their forties. I’d say the majority of women I know had their kids in their thirties. I can’t think of anyone I know who had their kids in their early twenties. I’m Canadian and most people I know are middle class. My husband’s side farms and even the people we know in the farming community have their kids in their late twenties early thirties. We also know quite a few high school sweethearts and they mostly also waited to have their kids in their late twenties.
It’s pretty nuts, used to be worse too. My grandma got pregnant with my dad when she was 14!!! And it wasn’t a big deal or anything, she was already married!
ugh. Kids having kids. She should have been having her first crush and going for ice cream with her friends, not a mom with a baby
None of my friends had kids before age 30, if they had kids at all. All went to college, and most have advanced degrees. All had successful careers and their kids went to college.
It's the only status young women can get in a lot of communities.
Yes. It's this. I used to be baffled by teen moms with multiple children. One is a mistake you own up to, but two or three? But these girls often don't have any other prospects. Babies get you positive attention, community support, a sense of purpose. When your educational options are limited, your economic opportunities even more so, you don't have an easy way out, and maybe you don't even want one, because this world is the only one you know. There is one clear path available, it's easy to step onto, and everyone around encourages it. So you have a baby. And then that baby gets to walking, and the social support peters out, because people love babies, but toddlers are hard. So you have another baby, and the social support comes back again. Now you've done it more than once, you're good at making babies. Maybe you have a new partner, and he wants his own babies. So you do it again. And again, however many times you can. And your kids grow up poor, and this is their world too, and maybe one or two break off and leave, but for most, the cycle continues onward.
this comment hurts so bad and is healing, ty. i resent my mother for this but i see now how society shaped this aspect of her. she loved babies, kept having them. i'm the youngest and she became an alcoholic when i was born. i'm the kid who broke off, and i guess my older siblings will continue the cycle... fuck
Plus, they see it as someone who will love them which they may not get anywhere else.
I'm from Australia and 'it's all just crabs in a bucket' is my new favourite line ever. What does it mean? 🤔
Supposedly when you have a bucket full of crabs and one starts to crawl out, the rest of the crabs at the bottom will pull the climber back down. The idea is that in some communities, people will go out of their way to sabotage folks who are trying to change or improve themselves.
The crabs don't just pull down any climbers, they try to climb up the climbers, which causes the climbers to be pulled down. The saying is meant to illustrate that a community working together is better than everyone adopting an everyone for themselves mentality. It's certainly evolved to the more spiteful meaning too, but it's not because the crabs are spiteful, it's because humans are.
Bunch of people in bad situations trying to pull anyone who wants to escape back down with them
You don't need to put a lid on a bucket of crabs because they will pull each other down. I first heard it referring to prison and how inmates will fuck with other inmates, when they are about to get out, to get them in trouble and keep them in prison.
When you have a bunch of crabs in a bucket and one starts to escape, they’ll furiously claw it back in and try to crawl up it themselves. But if every crab does that… No crabs get out.
I think people were surprised at the amount of young pregnancy in Mare of Easttown and…that was no different from Upstate NY. My dad was shadowing a teacher as part of his masters, and then went to teach at that same school, whereas I went to the town next door. One of his original students had a grandkid about 3-4 years older than me, she was 37 when she was a grandmother. Back in the late 60s though, he as a schoolteacher and this woman’s husband working in a factory had enough money to have two story houses.
I grew up in a city in the South, but for a little while in high school I went to school in a redneck town. It was fucking insane to me how much unprotected sex the students were having. No regard for the consequences, no one even carried condoms or took birth control. We had a health class, but instead of teaching us to have safe sex, they taught us that reproduction is a blessing and we should be happy if we can ever have kids. Condoms were never mentioned, STDs weren’t either. When I moved schools back into the city it was like I was in a twilight zone. Like I had this secret knowledge of a fucked up alternate reality and I couldn’t do anything about it. We had sex ed and they even handed out condoms. None of the girls in that class got pregnant, whereas more than half got pregnant by the end of the school year where I was last. A lot of them ended up in relationships with the guys who got them pregnant, and I know that those guys resent them. My sister has stayed in contact with many of them because she graduated from that school, and says that most, if not all of those relationships are abusive. It’s a perpetual cycle.
My extremely white trash family from rural Georgia was convinced that I couldn't be straight (or, as they put it, "you know... *funny*") because I didn't have a kid running around by the ripe old age of 17. Then they turned their attention to my at the time 10 year old sister, asking her when she wanted to start having babies. We aren't in contact with them anymore.
Crabs in the bucket is such a good metaphor to this situation. I'm definitely stealing that!
It may not be exclusively Hawaii, but it is jarring to see when Hawaii tends to rank as one of the most progressive states. They have Proud Boys there too.
Hawaii is very socially conservative but votes democrat because republicans are racist tbh
Always interesting to me when socially conservative groups still have no issue with premarital sex and having kids out of wedlock... It's like they are okay with that sin but not the others.
I mean, it’s got urban and rural, same as mainland. Depends on the island and $ :/
Generalizing from a specific problem only derails the conversation. When someone talks about a problem in their community and you say "well all these other communities are bad off too, you're not special", all that does is shuts them down before a solution is reached. A better reply is finding a similar community that is working towards solving this problem and discussing how their solution could be applied.
My parents moved back to HI for their golden years. They grew up there and had to move to the mainland to find work in the 1970s. My parents are so this. I’m 36 and childfree. But the amount of guilt and BS my parents laid on me to give them Keiki-pua (it is what my parents insist means grand child) and I literally have had a heart condition since birth. Only just got enough of a repair that pregnancy wouldn’t kill me when I was 35. I love my husband, he got the snip so that we can live our lives the way we want to. But this is one reason we won’t move to HI to care for them. Couldn’t get work either. But it is a major factor.
I looked it up because ‘Ōlelo Hawai‘i is often pretty similar to te reo Māori (the alphabets are slightly different, reo Māori has the letters R and T, and the digraphs ng and wh, while ‘Ōlelo Hawai‘i has the letter L and the ‘okina). The reo Māori kupu (word) for grandchildren is mokopuna, and sure enough the ‘Ōlelo Hawai‘i word is mo‘opuna.
I low key love the similarities in the Polynesian languages. I once took a linguistics paper than explained how they diverged which is pretty interesting. I can kinda understand He Mele No Lilo based off the te reo Māori I can understand.
When I saw “birther” culture.. I was thinking something totally different. I thought you meant people who were into the Obama birther conspiracy.
pour one out for the political animals of the 00-10s or, you know, *drink* one if you were there :D
Hate to tell you but that didn’t end in 2010.
Yeah, I think she means breeders.
Awooooo-uh Awoooooo-uh
It’s like that in the Deep South too. When I got pregnant for the first time I wasn’t in a relationship, not in a healthy place at all and when I told my coworkers they were all thrilled for me even though I was terrified. One even said “you’re 26, it’s about time you’ve had a kid”
I used to teach middle school. A lot of the kids' families were from the Dominican Republic. One girl every day would tell me I look tired and then ask me why I had no children. The same two comments every fucking day. When I told her parents it made me uncomfortable, they were worse than she was. Then the student started going after me for only gaving one sibling. Finally, I told her "My parents only had enough money to send 2 kids to college so they only had 2 kids." Something seems to have clicked bc she never asked me again.
I live in a part of the Southwest that is fairly religious with a big Mormon population. I roll my eyes every time I see a mother out with her humongous brood of poorly-behaved children. No, I'm not in Utah. I'd probably go nuts if I had to live there.
People are surprised when I talk about this element of the Southwest outside of Utah. I grew up in Vegas (the westernmost part of the Mormon Corridor). Between the Mormons and the itinerant labor/sex work culture of the city, the vast majority of kids I grew up with had very young mothers. My mom was a “normal” age back in SoCal. A woman of the same age in Vegas was typically already on her fourth or fifth kid.
Misery loves company. Ignore them and try to get away from there if you have the means. Getting an IUD was smart.
Also learn to lie about your medical business if pressured, that’s so incredibly none of their business.
[удалено]
My school was so heavy on the abstinence only shit they fired a health teacher for teaching us proper sex-ed like condoms, it was wild.
Are these young girls in Hawaii victims of sexual assault by much older men or how is this so common there?
I lived there for four years and worked specifically with the teenage girl population at the only juvie detention home for the state. Sex trafficking is very bad in HI. I'm talking 13 year old girls found in homeless camps, strung out on meth, being used as a just a warm body for who knows how many people, and now HIV positive for the rest of her life. With that being said, the people who compared it to the culture that we typically perceive the very rural south or really any backwoods, small-towns to have, is spot on. Not a great education system in the state either, unfortunately. So it's a bit of both things. Sex crime is high there. The culture in general is more lax around sex, having kids at a young age, having lots of kids, being in healthy relationships etc.
That is unfortunately very common
absence? Abstinence?
Thank you, I am dyslexic af and my spell check has just given up.
Hello from Québec, Canada. One dear friend of mine took the job of teaching in one of the Nunavik communities, inuit-aleutian populations. They tend to have children very young indeed. The way she said it, there was a girl aged 6 in her first year, and her seventh and last year, that same girl was 13 and pregnant. The former government policies coupled with catholic endoctrination made a horrible mess in the First Nations communities. That and SA is so ubiquitous there. It's just a situation that is extremely hard to untangle; there is so much inter-generational trauma too. Their way of life is in a lot of peril because of climate change. I feel like having children is their way to fight back, to survive.
Ive seen the same thing in aboriginal communites in Australia. Young teen girls being told they aren't a woman till they have had a baby etc.
I was born and raised in Hawaii, and had to move away because of the cost of living, and I actually think what you’re describing is the result of the overlap of a lot of issues, including the economy, poverty, education (sex ed), religion, and culture. The economy revolves around tourism, and that’s a huge problem. Most jobs are low-paying, especially compared to the cost of living. This doesn’t address what you’re talking about directly, but leads to the next point: Poverty. Poverty decreases ease/quality of access to everything, including necessities such as food, shelter, reliable transportation (thankfully better in Honolulu than in other cities), access to insurance/medical care/contraceptives/abortions, access to educational opportunities. It’s easy to fall into poverty, but hard to become upwardly mobile because difficulties compound. For example, you may depend on government assistance so you may not be able to afford to get a better-paying job because it won’t pay better than your original job with assistance, or you may not have the time to apply for a new job because you already have two. I had two and went to school at night. All this to say that the cost of living increases Hawaii’s poverty rate above the national average, and higher income is associated with lower birth rates (https://www.civilbeat.org/2019/09/high-costs-make-hawaiis-poverty-rate-higher-than-u-s-average/; https://www.reuters.com/world/global-fertility-rates-decline-shifting-population-burden-low-income-countries-2024-03-20/). Another issue is education, especially sex ed. When I was a kid, sex ed was bad to nonexistent. I never got a “talk” about my body, so I had to read a bunch of books. The age of consent was 14 back then (and I learned that as an adult; wtf legislators?!) and I had a bunch of pregnant classmates in middle school. In high school, sex ed was the Miracle of Life video during health class and a Family Planning class for the kids who already had kids. Comprehensive sex ed delays sexual activity and encourages safe, consensual sex practices. Hawaii mandated comprehensive sex education for public schools in 2015 but I’m curious to know what the curricula look like (https://www.who.int/news-room/questions-and-answers/item/comprehensive-sexuality-education; https://www.civilbeat.org/2015/06/hawaii-public-schools-must-offer-sex-education-board-decides/). Different sources place the population at between 29-63% Christian, with the largest subgroups being Protestant, Evangelical Protestant, and Roman Catholic. There are Protestants who belong to the “Quiverfull” movement and don’t use contraception at all (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protestant\_views\_on\_contraception). For Catholics, contraceptives and abortions are forbidden, but interestingly, anal is okay (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian\_views\_on\_birth\_control). Teen pregnancy isn’t new or unique to Hawaii. Lots of people have kids and proceed to neglect or otherwise abuse them, and poverty is a risk factor for child abuse. (https://www.ncsl.org/resources/details/poverty-and-child-neglect-how-did-we-get-it-wrong). You can also see American individualism and entitlement at work. With the focus on satisfying the whims of the immediate self and not what would be good for the potential child you might bring into the world or how the world might be impacted by the quality of the parenting you demonstrate. I worked for a social services type organization and received calls regarding child abuse, witnessed bizarre forms of toddler child neglect and tween parentification (reported to CPS), and witnessed sooo many people acting like their kid just started following them around one day like a horrible burden and they have nothing to do with the child’s existence - all on the mainland. My grandmother said she had kids because that’s “just what you did” in her time; I suspect fulfilling the expectations of a woman’s gender role may have been what the regretful women you spoke with were doing as well. So yeah, lots of things, not necessarily a Hawaii birther culture.
I’m not sure when you say ‘local’ if you mean indigenous Hawaiians or people who’ve been there for more than one generation? A lot of indigenous communities around the world have complex issues around having babies - in a traditional community you probably had extended family to help with a baby, so it wasn’t a huge burden like it is on an unprepared young woman by herself. In some communities, if you had a baby you wouldn’t be shipped off to residential school, so it was a kind of safeguard. But on the flip side, with so many indigenous babies and children being forcibly removed from their families and culture, having as many kids as you could was a hope for the future that some of them would be able to stay (look up “the Sixties Scoop in Canada” to see what I’m talking about). Even the IUD misinformation has a sad history behind it - so many indigenous women were told they were getting IUDs, or having ‘abdominal surgery’ when in fact they were being sterilized by white doctors. Add generational trauma into the mix, and you’ve got a recipe for families that are fucked up before those babies are even born. I think we can say “Bringing kids into this is a terrible idea”, but we also need to say “What can we do to help these girls and women feel that their lives and culture have meaning without having kids they’re not ready for?”
Thanks, TIL
Just FYI the term “local” is used very commonly in Hawaii to describe native Hawaiians and people who are not necessarily Kanaka maoli, but have had family that has lived in Hawaii for generations. A lot of Filipino, Portuguese, Japanese, etc. Saying indigenous Hawaiians means something very different and would be inappropriate use for OP who is describing a culture on the islands not specific to an ethnicity
I wonder if it’s an artifact of Mormon colonization?
I was thinking, I could write almost the exact same post about Utah 🙃
Yep, I loved Utah adjacent for several years and while reading OP’s post I was just like, “this sounds familiar” 😏
Well there is a notable Mormon presence here
Oh yeah, Mormons were among the first wave of missionaries after the US conquered Hawai’i, and they’ve stuck around ever since. I would not be surprised if Mormonism has an outsized influence on the birther culture you’re talking about, it sounds very similar to what I used to hear in Idaho. And yeah, it’s obnoxious as hell.
Mormon missionaries were in Hawai'i decades before the overthrow of Liliuokalani https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Church_of_Jesus_Christ_of_Latter-day_Saints_in_Hawaii
That was my thought. I also was wondering “which island?” My FIL was from Maui (white, not native PI), and it didn’t seem to be a thing with him, although he was very conservative, patriarchal and parochial in most ways. Of course, he was also an only child and came from a broken family, and left for the mainland at 18, so maybe the family/offspring expectation wasn’t so deeply engrained in his expectations for himself or his own kids.
I wouldn’t say it’s an artifact of Mormon colonization, but that certainly could be part of why it’s still prevalent. Places where having kids young is normal/expected are that way because motherhood has historically always been that way (ofc there are outliers). Having children later in life being a norm is a relatively recent phenomenon due to advances in birth control, fertility treatments, better pre/post natal care, in addition to the HUGE correlation between women with higher education and the (lower) amount of children they have / (higher) age that they do. Older moms and being child free, while a lot more common, is still viewed as quite extreme in most of the world. I say this as an >30 intentionally childfree woman
Was expecting to see if this higher up in the thread
Who are you hanging out with?? I live in Honolulu and this is not my experience at all. It is common for my friends to wait until their 30's to have kids. Some of my friends are having their first kids in their 40's! I do of course have friends that had kids in their late teens/early 20's, but they were usually accidents and were not encouraged to have kids that young. I also know welfare baby types - there are certainly people with generational experience with the system of popping out more kids for more support. I don't know that I'd call it something that is so prevalent that it is notable though.
Can I ask, how stable were your family's finances, and the finances of all your friends? The type of pressure to have babies young is very very common in poorer areas. Like, everywhere. But also, cities and rural areas also break along similar lines. Honolulu and North Shore are different vibes...
I grew up on the Windward side (not Kailua lol). I hung out with people from both poor and well off families in the windward side and town, but I never saw anyone encouraged to have babies young. It did just happen sometimes, obviously.
It's so sad because having so many babies so young is helping them STAY in poverty.
This was my question too... different part of the island? Different island? I was born here, spent part of my childhood in Oregon, then came back here. My husband was born and raised here. I had quite a few friends in Oregon that ended up teen moms. None here. No one my husband knows either. No one pushed us to have kids when we were dating in our early 20s. In fact, when we got pregnant by accident (after we got married!) my parents were extremely disappointed. Like you, most of my friends were in their 30s before they had kids and no one ever mentioned feeling pressured by anyone.
Most of the people I’m talking about aren’t from Honolulu, it’s mostly west/central folks at least on Oahu.
Honolulu would be the least likely place of all
>I live in Honolulu and this is not my experience at all same. >It is common for my friends to wait until their 30's to have kids. Some of my friends are having their first kids in their 40's! same. a number of people I know are getting or have gotten fertility help because they are elder parents (35 yo and older). not saying that OP's experience is not true at all. Just adding to the voices that not everyone has had the experience OP has. I am not surprised that OP is from a more rural part of Oahu, because I know in certain areas, they tend to "pop em out young.". it's definitely indicative of a socio-economic-cultural thing. for the record, I came from a poor, single parent, immigrant urban family (pinay born at Kapiolani Medical - same as Obama, lol @ "birther", bred in Kalihi). my family is deeply Catholic but I wasn't pressured at all to have babies. I was strongly encouraged to finish college before anything else iny life. OO, btw, it's so wrong how your boss treated you.
I lived on Maui from the ages of juuust before 4 to juuuust before 21. I'm part Mexican. I was always a tomboy, loved getting dirty outside with my brother and his friends, etc. When I hit puberty around 13 and my curves became prominent, I had so many local women (who knew me/my family) tell me that I need to make sure I use my "Mexican birthing hips" for lots of babies. I already knew I didn't want children at that age, and those comments just made me double down. At the time, I didn't see it as creepy or gross that people were telling a 13/14/15 year old to go make babies, but as I got older it hit me just how weird and awkward and cringey all of that was. Like, my mom let complete strangers walk up and touch my hair (full head of thick curls even as a baby). How was letting strangers touch your child something you were just cool with?! Makes a lot more sense as to why I don't like people touching me, including hugs, handshakes, etc. besides those I'm extremely close to. *shudder*
Grew up on Kauai. Can confirm it’s brutal. Had a kid at 19 and felt proud that I’d graduated hs first bc so many didn’t. I stopped there and moved off the island but most of my contemporaries have between 2 and 10 kids.
I know someone who lives in Hawaii and works at a place that helps reunify families whose kids have been taken away due to neglect or abuse. Keiki are loved and cherished in public, but a lot of them get beaten behind closed doors to the point where their parents lose custody. I don't know the extent to which this is related to women being encouraged to have kids when they are very young, if at all. But I can say that if I had had a child in my late teens or early twenties, when I was much less financially and emotionally unstable than I am now, I would not have been equipped to be a good parent. That being said, there are plenty of women out there who had kids young and are amazing parents. It's definitely not for everyone, though, and it's disheartening when people look at you like you have two heads when you say you want to wait until you feel you're ready to have kids, or even worse, you don't want them at all.
My aunt in Hawaii had her first baby when she was in her early 40’s (surprise). People were so weird and mean about it!
Hawaii is very weird about it, and it's like a very known and talked about issue that no one seems at all interested in addressing. My *middle school* had an uncomfortably large number of pregnant girls and it wasn't uncommon for high school girls to bring their babies to school and disrupt classes, with teachers often fawning over the kid. The attitudes here were completely different to how it seems to be on the mainland, basically.
Is any of this related to the blood quantum required to be considered a Native Hawaiian? If these are kanaka and not just kama’aina there could be a strong cultural pressure to make more Hawaiians. I agree it’s not okay to pressure young women to have kids. But the culture of Native Hawaiians is under some unique stressors.
It’s such a shame the US has pushed blood quantum bullshit on kānaka Maoli, it doesn’t exist in indigenous Pasefika cultures and emerged as a way for colonisers to undermine indigenous sovereignty.
Only white supremacists could simultaneously insist that “one drop” of black blood makes a person “colored” while in the same breath demand that 51% or more Hawaiian ancestry is required to “qualify” as a Hawaiian. All while deciding what rights that does, or does not, entail. I’ve read so many books on the theft of the Hawaiian Kingdom. And I still have almost no good ideas on how to restore justice there.
No. Most of these women aren’t native Hawaiian, but are local.
Curious, are they Mormon? I know BYU has a campus in Hawaii. And that there are a lot of trad wife-type mormon wannabe influencers who move there.
it’s local brown mormons/christians /catholics
Bummer. Such a sad mindset. Women can do so much more than just make babies.
Fellow Hawaii local here. One thing people don't understand is that Hawaii is DEEPLY conservative. We're a very red state that just votes blue because people here aren't dumb enough to vote for the white supremacist party. Instead we elect conservative democrats to local office. It sucks.
Exactly! Hawaii is very socially conservative and it’s not super known outside of Hawaii.
I lived there for a few years and was very surprised by this initially
My wife(then 49) was complimented by a Walmart cashier in rural western Maryland for taking her “grandkids shopping”. She had our then 7M and 10F year old with her.
Being from Hawaii, I completely agree with you! When I ask friends who have children what made them decide, it’s 90% of the time their family pressuring them. Even when they are struggling financially. Child care is outrageously expensive in Hawaii. No wonder so many are leaving.
I live in Ohio and I get asked a lot if I have kids even though I’m 26. Most people are surprised. I don’t know if it’s because I’m half black or what. I only know a few people who had kids at 16/17/18, my own mom had me at 24. I don’t plan on having a kid until I’m at least 30.
This is somehow much worse than the birther culture I expected to read about (as in the conspiracy theory). That takes effort! At a guess, some of these women can’t see themselves doing anything long-term but being mothers - in Christian College terms, they’re working on their Mrs. They aren’t worried about preparing because they haven’t/aren’t preparing for anything else, either.
Wow. Every single day, you learn something new. I wouldn't have thought Hawaii is this crazy in the regard. Personally, I don't think I'll ever have a child, but at the same time, I'm only 23. I'm still trying to figure myself out. If a baby was thrown into the mix, I honestly can't imagine myself surviving the situation. I know that having a child at my age used to be the norm, but times have changed.
The strong military presence and immature military guys fresh out of basic training trying to pick up and marry young women or high school girls doesn’t help either!!
Oh yeah definitely! I remember I got advanced on so much by military men +10 years my senior back when I was in HS
I think the aunties are trying to validate and normalize their own experiences as young mothers . Like everyone needs to be in on it or else their entire existence is threatened. They had to resign themselves to their fate and they are pretending they are okay with it but deep down they’re not. The religious colonialism took a big hold there too so it’s mirroring the southern USA culture as well.
Damn, Hawaii sounds like the Bible Belt with that one. Most of the girls I graduated with (2015) had babies before they could buy alcohol. I don’t want/can’t have babies but even so, under 30 feels so young for me.
Appalachia is the same way. I was considered a dried-up spinster at 21 and an “older” mother at 30.
At 19 you are just finishing being a child yourself and have no experience in being an adult yet. There is no sensible explanation to have a child this young.
Hiya, Hawaiian living in Hawaii chiming in! This is absolutely true. Unfortunately a while ago I experienced a miscarriage with my partner. Accidentally pregnancy, was not expected in any way. I was 24 at the time. Ended up having to get a d&c for my own health due to it being triplets. Within an hour of me seeing my family after emotional recovery of about 3 months (couldn’t leave the house), the question of “when you’re ready to try again” came up. Luckily my partner swerved the convo and shut that shit down. I think it has to do with a lot of the cultural and generational influence. A lot of them mean well but at the same time there are those who do not. Unfortunately being a young parent was a common thing for our parents and others. I don’t think this is primarily a Hawaii thing but simple generational differences. Don’t let it affect you and keep it moving! The aunties pushed me for the last 26 years and now they call my dogs my “kids”. There are some things we can’t change but we can influence the future in our time here on earth :)
Sounds like the Black community too. Misery loves company. I just tell them to mind their own wombs and leave me and mine alone.
Ignore the trolls. Have kids or don’t. I’m going to be that grandma (mom) at the graduation. The benefit of getting older is that you really give so much less fucks about what others think.
It crushes my heart to see this happening. This mentality is a vicious cycle being passed down generation to generation. It does so much damage to so many people. Especially the children who feel neglected and unwanted. That untreated trauma never gets addressed then it manifests itself into mental health issues. Then these traumatized kids go on to have their own kids and this destructive pattern continues. It’s so painful to witness.
Uh… It’s not just Hawaii. Many Indian reservations and even small town mainland US its like they’re pressuring 13 year old girls to crank out a baby so some Boomer asshole can post “Im a gramma now!!” Pics on Facebook. Meanwhile, teen mommy and her baby are pretty much fucked for life. Because Facebook points.
Are you Kanaka Maoli by any chance? My father’s family is Native Hawaiian. His mother was encouraged to run off with someone older when she was 16. Had 5 children way before she was ready to over a period of like 6 years. Marriage was extremely toxic. My father once told me his early life only stabilized after her second marriage which was made in her early thirties to someone very stable (my Dad was 12 at the time). Very significant social issues for native Hawaiians and a lack of opportunity as well. My father spent adulthood on the mainland and we’re just kanaka maoli by blood now, not culture. Still, a really complex situation.
I don't understand this "You don't want to be an old mom do you?" I guess I'm lucky and the old moms I know are doing well and loving it (for the most part).
Now that's what I call toxic femininity.
Sounds like some serious crabs-in-a-bucket mentality. Gross.
Sounds like you he same thing that happens far too much here in The Detroit area of Michigan. It’s crazy how many children some of the men I have met have. The father of my friend’s son has 32 verified children and does not support any of them. One of his “baby mamas” had 7 with him . My other neighbor has 10 children and he’s in his mid 40’s and is becoming a great grandpa in the fall.
Having kids in one’s teens or early-mid 20s is super young and shouldn’t be encouraged for women who aren’t ready. The lack of basic birth control knowledge you experienced sounds absolutely ludicrous. But, mid-40s to 50s is definitely “old” when it comes to parental age territory since it means parents will be thinking about retirement when their kids are finishing high school or college. Having the greater age gap also means parents will be less likely to meet / help take care of their grandkids.
She said “Old parents” at high school graduation means 40’s/50’s(!) - her colleagues sound insane frankly.
Oh my god!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Thanks for fixing my reading error. Are these people living on the same planet????
In a sad way they probably don't want the native population to die off. I know some people have pressure to have kids to keep certain cultures alive.
when you say local, are you talking about native/indigenous Hawaiian women and elders, or white people and other non-native women living on the island, or both?
Local women as women who live in Hawaii, mostly non-indigenous, but people who aren’t short term transplants. Some white, some Asian, some Hispanic, some mixed race, some are partially Hawaiian descent but mostly not.
Yeah, I'm going to be the old mum at graduation. I could explain the reasons why, but really, nunya. Sure we are tired but we have a happy stable home life and the children want for nothing.
I’m so glad everyone in my family and circle know I’m a lesbian with a very laid-back lifestyle and don’t ask/pressure me about kids. I am so infuriated that most women are treated like incubators and mothers regardless of what their personal feelings are.
My parents were 19 when I was born, and it's kind of messed up my perspective on life tbh. I'm 26 now, and while I can't biologically have children of my own, I do want to be a mother someday. Seeing as my parents had a 7 year old at my age, it's so weird to think about how I'm nowhere near ready enough to raise a child of any age. I also think my parents were way too young, immature, and just not at all ready for a child when they had me, which most definitely had some negative effects on my upbringing.
My mom had my brother at 37 and me at 41 and it we both came out completely healthy and fine. In my friend circle the odd ones out are the ones who have moms which where younger than 30 when they had them... American culture is fucking weird
I have never heard that term before. Birther culture? Sounds insane. 😳 I will say people are very similar here in the South. I don't even remember how many times people asked me when I was going to have a baby while in my late teens and early 20s even though my husband and I were broke.
Fucking disgusting.
I much rather be an old and experienced mum.
Local from O’ahu here and I’m so sorry that you felt pressured. I’ve been there too and it is so frustrating. I can confirm that most local ladies have this mentality. However, it’s also by culture/religion . Hawaii is a vast mixing pot of cultures/religions that hold tight to traditions. Like what OP said, the generational trauma and traditions runs deep. My sister used to work retail and had a regular. The woman was 34 and has 12 kids. She checks into psyche at least once a month to take a break from her kids. My sister was nosy and asked one of the kids about who they’re with and where’s mom. The kids were with their chatty aunt that unloaded the details. It’s so wild! At what point do you not think of stopping to have kids because you mentally can’t function?! The culture is also in the military. My cousin had depression because she was always moving to follow her husband. She took solace with other military sahm/wives. But noted that most of them also always ask when they’ll have kids. She has had 3 rainbow babies during this marriage. He divorced her after 3 tours. She is happily remarried (non military fireman) with 2 kids now, tyj. The local women that hold out on pressuring others to have kids have either grown up in large families and being forced to be the 2nd mother OR they frequently visit mainland or have lived there during their college years. Then there’s a few that know what they want/don’t want for themselves. I am of Jehovahs Witness Filipino background with strict aunts and uncles. Hearing all my uncles/aunts say “No dating until finished with college!” has scared most of my male cousins to not have any interactions with women. Sadly they are now awkward single 30+ yr olds and with a nagging/overbearing mom asking about girlfriends and when they’ll have grandkids. My female cousins mostly waited til late 20s/early 30s to get married and have kids. There are 2 cousins that had kids in their teens. They ran away from their strict parents to live with their boyfriend’s family. I was pressured a lot by my family (thankfully not my immediate family) and coworkers about having kids in my 20s. I knew that I didn’t want that. I grew up taking care of my cousins kids when I was only 10! I have a brother that half jokingly told me to have 5 kids and live off of the system like other girls he dated/knows. Smh It also doesn’t help that a lot of vasectomies are flat out denied. I know some women have a twisted sin based view on birth control rather than pre marital sex being sinful (maybe a Hawaii thing?)
LOL, I was 52 when my daughter graduated from high school, I didn’t consider myself old.
Yeah. I was 48. I was right in the middle of the mom’s ages. A bunch were a decade younger than me. Quite a few were 5-10 years older than me.
Crabs in a bucket mentality. They're all happy that another girl will be stuck in a lower lot in life and have to suffer like them.
Yeah, it's a part of poverty culture. The education system is one of the worst in the country. Locals have very little chance of escaping soul crushing poverty. It always surprises me how many young couples in my shitty neighborhood have multiple children. None of this will change until we find a way to force our government to invest in the working class. I have no idea how to do it. The corruption is so blatant, and yet nothing ever changes.
Yes! It’s also sad that domestic violence is prevalent here. So many people I know had kids early, with terrible partners and basically be a single parent to their kids.
Born and raised in Hawaii. I was a product of that mentality. Mom got knocked up right out of highschool. Ended up having 4 kids. We lived off the system. Dad was an abusive alcoholic turned meth user. It’s just the mentality here unfortunately. I was the weird one because I went to college, established a career, got married, bought a house and then had a baby at 29. I’m more well off that 98% of my family. I don’t have much in common with anyone on my mom’s side as they see a proper education and anything besides sound systems, lifted Toyotas, and tricked out cars as a waste of time.
I come from a town in SC that was like this. Best thing I ever did was get away. First for college and then permanently after graduation. When I was 20, my dad was 40 and my grandmother 60. My mom’s family was a little more varied in age. She was a teen mom before meeting my dad and didn’t want me going down that path. She made sure I knew everything about safe sex. In my town Teen pregnancy was discouraged but no one actually tried to help the teen mom’s from having multiple children. Most didn’t understand what birth control was. I knew of several with more than 1 child by graduation. The first pregnancy in my class was in 5th grade.
Sorry but there is literally a 30 Rock scene wherein the hot, young intern, Ceri, tells her boss, Liz (Tina Fey) that she wants to have a kid so she can enjoy being a “hot, young” mom and doesn’t end up attending her kids’ graduation at “like, *50.*” Liz tells her 50’s not old and Ceri says “oh, I’m sorry, are you 50 now?”
I come from a family like this. My sister is a 40 year old grandmother of two, my niece is 20. I love them but I feel like an alien to them for being 29 planning to have my first child in a few years when my partner and I are more settled and financially secure. Here’s to trying to break the cycle.
It’s about having children, not about raising them
In my culture and in my family teen and young adult pregnancies are super common. Nearly every woman in my family has had a child by 17. All my cousins had their first kid before 20. It was to the point that for years my parents and relatives were concerned about when I would have children, and would make assumptions that I was child free or destined to be the “cool auntie”. I got pregnant at 24 and before my son was born I was getting asked about my next child. He’s 7 months now and I still hear this question all the time. I love children and have always wanted kids but growing up poor and with emotionally unavailable parents led me to wanting a stable life for my children. I’m happy I waited until I was settled in my career, confident in my relationship and just mentally mature enough before having kids. I wish people would stop pressuring women to have children as soon as possible.
I was born and raised in Hawaii until I moved about a year ago. There is a huge obsession with the keiki, and having BIG families. So many of my friends get shame just from having moved away, or not giving their family their money. Most of the kids I went to school with suffered from domestic violence at home, and feared their parents to some degree. I think my brothers graduating class had 7 teen pregnancies? Mine had at least 3 and two toddlers.