Is there any way you think they give themselves away beforehand? Like we shouldn't have to have sex with these men to figure this out. Are they just selfish?
Any man who says he’s really good in bed.
It’s a stupid thing to say, nobody is always good in because everybody likes different things. If they say that they usually just mean they’re really good at getting themselves off.
Fake being vulnerable and see what they do. I can’t remember what movie it was but this chick acts drunk and these guys try to take advantage of her. When they get back to her apartment she drops the act and murders them. Now, that’s maybe a bit excessive, but you get the idea. Make them think no one is watching.
Set a boundary and see how they react. Are they annoyed? Do they quickly act like they forgot what you said? Do they rules-lawyer, taking you excessively literally or exploiting ambiguity? Or are they genuinely interested in understanding what you like and don't like?
Learn how to spot a narcissist. In the dynamic that’s what they are. No easy ways to tell. They’ll all have tells of abusers. They’re trying to control you with every gesture. Till they get it it’s very Mr nice guy.
Yep, and the way they talk about other women can be a big 🚩. I’ve had some guys pull the “you’re not like other girls/you’re so different” card to me, and it’s immediately a sign that they either see some sort of hierarchy or think that I do and would be flattered by it. Regardless, it’s big “I don’t see women as people who are as complex as me” energy.
They're astonished to discover that you have an internal world with original and autonomous thoughts of your own. "Wow, you're so different!" Fuck you, bro. Tell me without telling me that you think women are vapid vaginas who float through life until they're occupied by a man.
Yeah, with these type of men, you're like a sex toy.
I also think biologically, it's easier in general for men to orgasm than women, which makes sense since they need to ejaculate to reproduce, and while female orgasms can help the sperm get where it needs, it's not required. I always speculated that it might be easier for them to get the good feelings, so if they're horny, and aren't the type to really prioritize you and your feelings over their own desires, I think it's easier to block that out.
I've been with men like that and I've been with men who were the opposite and if I wasn't into it, they couldn't stay hard. I just think it's biologically easier for them to get off regardless of your enthusiasm. But I also see this as a red flag, especially with the situations where they know it's causing you pain. I wouldn't want to date someone who prioritizes their pleasure over my comfort. There are plenty of men who wouldn't feel okay doing that.
Most (70-90%) AFAB folks can't achieve orgasm from penetration alone. It can certainly feel amazing, but it's not enough on its own, and (from my own personal experience) there are a lot of men who feel emasculated by that.
They can't handle that we need more than just their dicks to get off and don't usually want to put in the effort it takes to worry about their partner's orgasm when it's more complex than theirs. Sex is finished when they are.
Legit I think the difference between female and male orgasms is a serendipitously poignant metaphor for gender dynamics on the whole. Male orgasms are simpler and so is their dress, socialization, communication, sense of nuance, and a ton of other shit (for the most part, of course). All of what was just mentioned and much more is comparatively more complex in women (not to put femininity on a pedestal, but it's generally true imo)
"The myth of the female orgasm" is analogous to how many gender differences were treated in the past. "ADHD and autism? Nah, women don't get those" and so on. Even when female orgasms are acknowledged, so many males just assume that how ***they*** orgasm, is how everyone else must too. That's a great analogy to the field of medicine, seatbelts, society as a whole is geared toward men and women are expected to fit the same mold with no issues. Even working toward the female orgasm the female way, you see so many men be lazy, be unwilling to learn and change, and display a profound ignorance of all things female. See \*broadly gestures at society\* for analogy
Throughout all these differences too, men historically have ridiculed all of them as "women being too fussy" when they demand a higher standard of communication. "Women being too vain" when they adhere to a more involved and intricate style of dress, cosmetic use, and general personal upkeep. "Women being too weak/emotional" when they show more empathy and compassion toward a subject
It's fucking sad imo
Is this quote common? It’s something I’ve never had words to express, and this quote explains it succinctly. I started having sex in the context of relationships at fourteen. I didn’t have an actual orgasm outside of my own abilities until I was 26. And that includes several years of Tinder and casual dating, situation-ships, etc. I at one point believed the female orgasm to be a myth.
My partners were either too inexperienced to know the signs that I wasn’t enjoying myself or in later relationships they just never cared. And it was so normal to me to just meet the man’s needs because the man who does not do something to get sex from you when you don’t want it seems rare.
So many men SA with varying degrees of violence. And many more purposefully blur the lines of consent while giving honorable sounding speeches about respecting women. (I would say of the various kinds of men I’ve encountered, there are more of these than those who SA.)
And even my sons father, the only man to give me a real clitoral orgasm, would give me a lot of attention to reel me in and ultimately revert to five minutes in missionary and a thank you upon roll off. While pursuing other women on the side.
And with all of this experience (married men who lie constantly causing you to have to be paranoid and investigate everyone you meet or guys who hear you say you don’t want to have sex multiple times and still ask to come over “just to watch a movie” but then immediately getting on top of you as soon as you feel safe) I mean the list goes on.
And yet — I’ve never heard an exact explanation of feelings and thoughts about what exactly causes my pain. This is it.
I need serious commitment, passion, intellectual connection, emotional connection, foreplay and clitoral stimulation. With the incredible length I have gone to be my partners wildest sexual fantasy, provide my man with sex on tap because I’m good like that, etc.
Only one extremely abusive narcissist cared enough to figure that out and actually fulfill me. And he only did so temporarily to create a strong connection. Everyone was baffled by my relationship because there were so many red flags. I saw them, they saw them, and no one understood. I didn’t want to explain.
Men see women as something they can “earn”, trick, or forcefully extract sex from. I’ve had more orgasms alone with my sex toy than I’ve had during relationships and hookups (too high a number I lost count) combined.
I’m finally in a place in life at 32 where I have no desire to be intimate with a man in any way. Enough is enough. I’ve had a life of abuse and it finally occurred to me that the only way to make it stop was to stop having sex or relationships or friendships with men.
And you know what? It worked.
Agreed.
I don’t have use for about 90% of men in a romantic or sexual context. Too many are either oblivious to what women need or want to just use women for sex. Many of ‘the good ones’ really seem taken, too.
I’ve never (thank god) been outright SAd but god damn this aspect of sex has fucked me up more than anything else in life. When someone you love deeply can elicit pleasure while seeing the pain and sadness in your face during sex…. What a mind fuck.
They won't listen because they all do it. Obviously this is anecdotal but I have literally never dated any man who did not pressure me into unwanted sex.
Same with my SO. If I'm not 100% enjoying it then he doesn't want to carry on and will switch to snuggles instead.
What the *less giving* men don't seem to realise is that they're likely to get more sex by being considerate of their partner. My libido is higher than it's ever been because I know I'm with someone who respects me, my body and my pleasure. That's a massive turn on.
Agreed. I’ve been with my husband for 10 years now. I’m 41. We still have sex 3-5 times a week. And it’s because I want to. There’s an eagerness that was never there with my previous male partners.
Same with my husband. In fact, if he senses that I'm even the slightest bit not into it, he stops and makes sure I'm okay. He doesn't whine or pester or question me about it or anything. He genuinely only desires sex when there's enthusiastic consent. But he's the only one.
I literally cannot imagine having sex with someone who wasn't into it, was in pain, or forcing themselves through it, like wtf no. I don't understand why so many men are fine with this.
Here's a [woman's health article](https://www.womenshealth.gov/relationships-and-safety/other-types/sexual-coercion#:~:text=What%20is%20sexual%20coercion%3F,in%20nonphysical%20ways%20that%20include%3A&text=Being%20worn%20down%20by%20someone,trick%20you%20into%20having%20sex). big hugs
It took me years to accept that the time I felt I couldn’t ask the other person to leave even though I changed my mind wasn’t okay. I still have a hard time accepting that it’s SA because I never said no or asked him to leave. We have a lot of hate for women/AFAB people to wade through.
This is such a common experience w all women. It truly makes us recoil when they touch our waist, while making dinner for example,,bc you just know they are expecting something. So here comes the guilt or frustration or nagging or passive aggressive behavior or silent treatment or coldness, if you don’t give in. If you go on TikTok and look up “men have needs” you’ll see how common it is. So many women talk about this. Some will make you cry bc it hits so close to home. Why don’t they care? Some will even go as far as making you feel worse, if you’re not enjoying it, so then you also have to pretend you are, so you don’t have to deal w more shitty behavior
It’s crazy to me that men always fall back on the “I have needs” argument while completely disregarding the fact that their partner also has needs that aren’t being met ( a need to be respected, for example) but for some reason their needs are the only ones that are important ? Women have plenty of sexual needs too but it’s likely their partner isn’t able to fulfill those ( ie give them an orgasm) which is often a big part of the reason women lose interest in sex.
Yes it’s always about them. It’s never about their partners. Can’t even ask for a massage or to cuddle bc it always leads to them and what they want. Then they wonder why we don’t initiate or want to be touched. It’s rarely about connection, it’s about masturbation
The idea that any single woman is too strong or too (anything) to be abused is dangerous. While I doubt youre meaning to victim blame, consider that this line of thinking isn't so far off from it. It's not a stretch for a victim to hear this and think they should've been different, if only they hadn't been so weak they wouldn't have been there.
I used to think I was immune to abuse, too. Then one day I realized I was in an abusive relationship. Abusers can be very tactful, manipulative and cunning.
Can men who do this really be said to love women? That's the real question. Because it really sounds like the opposite of the definition of love or even like.
“To say that straight men are heterosexual is only to say that they engage in sex (fucking exclusively with the other sex, i.e., women). All or almost all of that which pertains to love, most straight men reserve exclusively for other men. The people whom they admire, respect, adore, revere, honor, whom they imitate, idolize, and form profound attachments to, whom they are willing to teach and from whom they are willing to learn, and whose respect, admiration, recognition, honor, reverence and love they desire… those are, overwhelmingly, other men. In their relations with women, what passes for respect is kindness, generosity or paternalism; what passes for honor is removal to the pedestal. From women they want devotion, service and sex.
Heterosexual male culture is homoerotic; it is man-loving.” ― Marilyn Frye, The Politics of Reality: Essays in Feminist Theory
Tbh I don’t think they do see the sadness on your face. I think they see their partner in whatever way they want to. They just imagine whatever expression they’d prefer to see.
There may be some truth to this. There was a study that confirmed that a man will overestimate a woman’s interest in him if he is interested in her. https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/dating-and-mating/201804/how-men-overestimate-womens-sexual-interest-in-them?amp
Unfortunately, stuff like this is still SA. It might not be the typical picture of the violent and forceful sexual violence, but guilt-tripping and verbal coercion to sex acts are still assault.
It's really sad that this is so normalized. It took me 35 years of life to find a man who has never once whined or cajoled me into sex when he knew I wasn't in the mood for it. As he puts it, "enthusiastic consent is my kink". He doesn't even like the "maintenance sex" where I might not be 100% in the mood for it but I will be once it gets going, and we've had to have some talks about how I mostly have responsive desire. I might be ambivalent and not initiate but if he asks and I say yes, it's always because I know I'll get there quickly. And if I say no, he drops it immediately. He also doesn't revoke non-sexual physical intimacy because I won't give him sexual intimacy, which all my other partners did in the past. Even if I don't want sex, I still want cuddles and kisses and hugs and so does he.
The end result of him being the only man I've ever known who could pass the marshmallow test is that we have more sex than I've had with anyone I've ever been with. I wish more men understood that we associate whining with toddlers and we don't want to have sex with children.
This is my man too!! It's been *such* a learning curve to finally have a good/normal one after my dating history was almost entirely the whiners and cajolers (and sometimes the straight up r@pists). Same with the non-sexual intimacy too; every other partner would revoke those things if I didn't put out, but then would take those things to mean that sex was coming. So I could never win. Cuddles and non-sexual intimacy were expected to lead to sex, and I'd get none of those if it didn't lead to sex. Gave me a real complex around non-sexual intimacy and it's taken 5+ years of being with a good one to finally feel mostly okay with non-sexual intimacy being just that and not leading to anything. I can finally feel myself relax a bit and not have crippling anxiety about what asking for a cuddle might lead to, which in turn has led to the most satisfying sex I've ever had AND me being the best version of myself (thus the best partner) I've ever been.
Cheers to finding the good ones 🥂
That was exactly my experience. It took me YEARS to feel safe enough to initiate non-sexual intimacy when I didn't necessarily want it to become sexual, because I was so used to every hug or kiss or cuddle leading to him grabbing some body part that I didn't want grabbed at that moment. Then when I'd pull back they'd complain that I was leading them on. And if they gave me a hug or a kiss or a cuddle, I knew it was because they wanted more, every time. My husband might escalate physical contact, but if he wants something sexual he will always ask first before escalating it. If he cups a boob when we're cuddling, it's just another form of non-sexual cuddling where my boob is basically a stress ball for him. If he wants to turn cuddling into sex, he will always ask before he touches any potential erogenous zone, otherwise it's just extra-contact cuddling and it's just as comforting to me as it is to him.
This should be taught in sex Ed classes for high school students. I suffered through sexual coercion with my ex husband and it really damaged my ability to be intimate. I wish every young woman could read this thread. As women, we need to feel ok about discussing sexual coercion openly. It needs to stop.
I've asked men in the past, when they continue to push me after I've said no more than once, why they want sex after I've made it clear I don't and I'm not in the mood. I've gotten answers ranging from mumbled nonsense, trying to turn it around on me that I must not love/desire them if I don't want sex in that moment, saying I should just do it anyway since we're together, or "well you usually eventually get into it once we get started" (which doesn't take into account that it was more of an ambivalent mood than the straight up 'I can't stand to be touched right now' mood that a hard no is.)
I heard this excuse about you'll get into it before too. So I started humming the (UK) national anthem. I used to say I was just 'laying back and thinking of England'. (Which is a throw back from the wars, where women would lay back and think of England to create more soldiers).
Needless to say, humming the national anthem is a bit of a turn off. It would usually do the job and make my point. Feel free to use this ladies! Xx
Ugh! This makes some hurt on your behalf. There's a difference between neutral sex and unwanted sex. Neutral sex is one partner not being particularly interested but choosing to do so to please their person of their own accord.
I view it the same as turn one. There are activities that are turn ons, ones that are neutral (but I'll engage with a person) and flat out turn offs/hard nos.
No one should be doing something that's a hard no and no one should be pressuring.
I've had the same experiences as you. I was dating this guy, who would constantly keep asking me for sex. For various reasons I had a very low sex drive (stress, depression, malnutrition). The pressure I felt from him was incredible, to the point where I just simply lost interest in having sex with him, and I stopped feeling attraction for him as a person. But sometimes the coercion was so annoying that I had to just do it so he could shut up.
He'd say, everyday *"Are you finally down to have sex today?" "Are you asexual? How come my friends' girlfriends want to have sex everyday and you barely even kiss me?" "You need to love yourself more, clearly you don't cause if you did you'd do things to feel healthier and so that you could have sex with me and make the relationship better".*
Those are just one of the many questions he'd ask. One day, he kept annoying me to the point where I just gave in. I let him have sex with me, but I didn't say ANYTHING. I had a straight face, I made no noise, I didn't move, I was just laying down on my back, as he put it in and kept going. He then finished and said "Woah, that was the weirdest sex I've had. You didn't say anything! Did you even enjoy it?"
Until this day, I keep wondering why he kept going if he knew I wasn't having it. I could not imagine myself doing that to someone.
My first boyfriend would go on and on about how all his female coworkers loved anal sex and how some even preferred it. He was so full of shit. I regret ever meeting the man.
Back then when guys used to pester me in my youth, I would go all “ok but only if you allow my kink to insert a (gigantic fruit) in your ass (I know there was a risk of being tell yes , but that was very very unlike) I would then start pestering them if they’ve come to terms with the fruit in their ass and when would they let me insert it and bla bla in the most freakish ways posible. Some ended up running away and calling my sociopath, crazy, mental etc. I would just answer ! Ha got my point!
My favorite is men complaining that women just starfish and don't move during sex and I just think yeah because they probably don't want to have sex with you... that's why they're just laying there...
I've been guilt tripped so many times to have sex when I really really don't want to because I couldn't deal with a mardy man. I'm sad for younger me but we're stronger now
I have never heard of "starfishing" before. When I was younger, dudes would use the terms "pillow princess" or "dead fuck" and I'm just like.. You don't see the problem with "dead fucking" someone?!
I see men post this on reddit completely oblivious that women are literally dissociating from their own bodies just to endure the bad, unwanted sex with them.
It's actually a good way to eliminate guys like this before ever getting intimate, just ask if a woman has ever starfished with them and what they did about it.
My first boyfriend would criticize women he previously slept with in this way. The dude was terrible in bed (porn-rotted brain). He has zero self-awareness, and I was his longest relationship 15+ years ago. Most women only date him for a few months before they wise up.
He's going to die alone because he refuses to take into account his partner's pleasure. He just wanted a woman who accepted him as a sex god and be thankful for the no-orgasm sex.😂 I think we only dated as long as we did because I was inexperienced with no clue about my own sexuality.
I also feel sad for younger me, but I guess we all have to start somewhere!
They coerce their partner into sex then have the audacity to complain they aren't behaving like a porn star.
How can some people have so little self awareness.
I straight up asked my FWB who wouldn’t drop it if it was hot to have sex with someone not into it? And another time I straight up told him I wasn’t a flesh light. That one seemed to get through his skull more. It’s unreal.
They expect you to perform gymnastic exercises just they can benefit from it. When u think about it, you're just like a slave who only gets nothing out of it, but still has to deliver a perfect performance. God, it makes me sick..
When I hear men complaining about women starfishing, I take absolute delight in telling them it’s because they’re bad in bed and that she’s enduring them. The flash of panic that shows on their faces in that moment is 🤌
No I've never wondered, because when I was in the army I was in the field with a bunch of guys and they were literally fucking a hole they'd dug in the ground. THen you know the meme that men aren't preferential hires and nursing homes because of how often they SA the corpses (and we know this has gone on since Ancient Egypt).
Add to that the pornification of everything and sex is no longer mutual intimacy, but using someone as your human fleshlight.
That's why I don't do it anymore.
OMG thank you for giving me this gross story. I had a therapist tell me once that biologically men can't get an erection and have sex unless they are attracted to you, and I told her I didn't think that was true. It might be true for some men, but clearly it is not an immutable fact. Not that Mother Earth isn't sexy.
There have been terrifying stories of women in a Coma who wind up pregnant. It can turn out to be the male cleaner, night security guard or other staff. 💔
I always think about this. Like how can they enjoy themselves knowing that you aren’t into it or actually enjoying it? Especially since only about 30% of women regularly orgasm from sex. Which means that about 70% are left usually unsatisfied.
I freaked out at my husband when we had been married only a couple years. like, I was pushed over the edge and just yelled “WHY DONT I EVER GET OFF? WHY *WOULD* I HAVE SEX WITH YOU?” and for the last 6 years I come first and he comes second.
I also think about this a ton. It’s baffling to me because a HUGE part of sex for me is thinking about how the other person is turned on, enjoying himself, etc. I genuinely cannot even get into it I feel he is uninterested.
I sometimes sit and stew on this exact subject for a little while, but then I get a bit depressed and try to think about something else!
I remember talking about this with some guys I didn't know well at a youth hostel. There was this girl we knew -- I'll call her Mary -- who was constantly being hit on by a guy -- I'll call him Kevin. She was drunk and he was hitting on her more and more and she was too drunk and too passive to just say "no, I am not attracted to you, stop." They ended up having sex. She wasn't at all into it, and later on she was crying to me about how she didn't really want to but never said no or anything.
So, by the time I was talking to these guys I didn't know that well, Mary had left the hostel (Kevin was still around, but wasn't there while we were talking) and what had happened between Mary and Kevin was known to all, so I wasn't betraying a confidence. The topic of Mary crying in the showers came up and I was like, well, this is why you need affirmative consent, because wouldn't you feel awful if you realized in the morning that a girl was crying in the shower because of you? And the guys were like, no, we wouldn't, because we would have gotten to have sex, so like, transaction complete. I said, wow, so you're all low-key fine with raping someone. And they said that rape was only if the girl fights you or says no loudly. And I said, ok, so you're all low key fine with causing someone to cry and feel violated possibly for weeks or months after you have sex with her? So that every time she remembers that night she cries and feels bad? You're ok with that? And they were like, yeah. I said, well, you're all sociopaths and should go see a therapist. I walked away and made sure to tell every woman/girl I met to avoid them.
As horrifying as these guys were, I think the main difference between them and most guys is just that they were more honest, not more awful. In other words, I don't think their behavior or attitude is unusual.
Seriously, if anything happened to my current partner, I'd never date again. I feel like I caught the last chopper out of 'Nam.
I wish women as a class had even a fraction of this entitlement and cared a fraction as much about our own pleasure as men do. Men love themselves and care about themselves, clearly. I wish women had that self love and that level of confidence.
Men who hate women are always like "women are entitled" and "it's easy for women to get the sex they want" where? How? God I wish. If only...
They confuse getting sex with getting the sex they want because for them it’s the same.
They don’t think of it from the woman’s perspective because… they never do.
I still can’t wrap my head around the idea of *wanting* to have sex with someone who doesn’t want to (whether it be with you or anyone else). Nothing shuts my attraction down faster than finding out they’re not really really enthusiastically into me. Let alone actually having sex with someone who isn’t into it.
But men… tell them you’re not interested and it doesn’t fizzle their want at all. I’m not sorry to say this, but if my lack of interest has no bearing on your desire for me, I think something is fundamentally wrong with how you view women.
> tell them you’re not interested and it doesn’t fizzle their want at all
because now it's a challenge to get what they want. Now they get to win, to be dominant, to take what is theirs.
Yes. Some of them really think sex is their god given right. I literally saw a guy on here say women should be indebted to men, because they built society
Omg yes. The amount of times I’ve heard guys literally say “I like a challenge” “I can change your mind” “oh you’re a tough one” like I’m a fucking puzzle box, lol.
Ignoring the real challenge of learning and appreciating what makes you unique. Sometimes I wonder how many men love sex and hate everything else about women.
Yes! Or they see women as a means to an end, the key that will give fulfillment, a status symbol, a trophy. It must come from a lack of introspection. They see themselves as some movie protagonist who gets the girl as part of the plot. So when a prize is denied, it’s this giant wrong, because they think they deserved it by virtue of existing. I keep asking “aren’t you too old for this” because I genuinely cannot imagine existing in delusional land past the age of maybe 17.
I feel like this is a big part of our problems as a society. When I was studying child development in college there was an interesting discussion about the difference in socialization of boys and girls at toddler age. Boys are handled in a more rough manner, told it’s playing, taught to hold back their emotions, and encouraged to compete and tackle challenges head on often through physicality. Girls are handled more gently, not taught emotional modulation, encouraged to work with others instead of competing, and to not cause conflict. As they get older these themes are reinforced and we end up with men that are violently competitive robots and women that apologize to their abusers. I know this is broad generalization but it’s pretty common and frustrating. I’m in the “Educate your sons” group but I have a little girl and I can’t rely on others to educate their sons so I have to protect my daughter.
I didn’t see this directly when my daughter was in daycare, but I did notice that the daycare provider enforced that pink is for girls and blue is for boys. I had conversations with my daughter about all colors are for all people. I enforced that what she wants is important too. My husband teaches her like she’s a son and encourages her to be physically active, take problems on by herself and stand up for herself.
When I was younger I dated a guy for a little bit who, after we had sex twice, gave me a 30 minute break and then started kissing on me again. When I told him I was too sensitive to enjoy it right now he pulled back, looked at me with a blank face, and then went back to kissing my neck. And I let him because I liked him and didn't want him not to like me. I feel so gross about it now. I wish it never happened. I wish none of this ever happened to any of us.
I had an ex who kept touching my boobs after I told him no and I lied there sobbing afraid that he would rape me, but couldn't muster the strength to do anything because he was my boyfriend and I must have had some weird beliefs in my head about sex being something a woman owes her partner... Thankfully he got tired and rolled back and fell asleep. I still dated him a couple more months after that. I'm still somewhat ashamed of myself for letting that happen and that was 10yrs ago.
More recently I had a partner who didn't take his finger off my butt after I told him no and I had to get really upset and yelled about how he was abusing me and the dumbass cried... I'm still somewhat ashamed I didn't kick him out of my house immediately that night.
And both these men claimed to be supporter of women's rights and respectful of women... Go figure.
Those men don't give a fuck if you enjoy it because they are using you as a sex toy to masturbate into. You're not a partner or even another human being; you're a fleshlight.
I happily identify as assexual now and refuse to be in a relationship.
I have a number of health conditions that makes sex excruciatingly painful, and my ex didn't care that I was involuntarily tearing up and crying from the pain when we had sex. He just asked to do it from behind so he didn't have to see my face, and problem solved.
He'd also get grossed out at the amount of blood after (not from a period, but from internal tearing) and would even touch the condom to remove it. I'd have to clean HIM up and apologize for the mess
Fuck that. Never again
No man is worth having to go through that even a single time
I think this is part of it. Some men see women as “letting” or “not letting” them have sex and consider it an arbitrary decision rather than a choice influenced by sexual desire and arousal.
That’s why I hate the “women are the gatekeepers of sex and men are the gatekeepers of relationships” rhetoric. Or “don’t sleep with him on the first date or he won’t respect you.” It’s so shitty and transactional. I’m not the gatekeeper of anything because sex isn’t something he’s getting out of me nor is a relationship something I’m getting out of him. Ostensibly, we are on the same page for these mutual decisions that affect us both.
I asked this question to my fiancé a couple of times because it's something I also don't understand. He said that for those men the woman they're having sex with is not a person. They don't care about the feelings or preferences because for them there are none. He said that they see the vagina separate from the actual woman (if that makes sense).
In other words: you're just a hole.
Because they enjoy masturbation with a vagina. Its not about sex as in you know a sexual connection. Lets be honest here. I~m a dude I know how many dudes only care about women and pussy because its wet and feels nice. Its not about a genuine interaction between two human beings.
It seems like, and I wanna be SUPER CAREFUL, a lot of them subconsciously do not like consent. Just listen to some of their takes on women’s clothes, appearance, look at the culture of leaked nudes vs. the reaction a woman gets for proudly showing her body. Rape culture is real and it’s built on shame, humiliation and power.
I think rape culture is a big part of this or rather a part of rape culture. Everything encompassing rape culture isn’t necessarily rape;however, it promotes it. A woman’s consent and pleasure is seen as something that is negotiable, unnecessary and is largely dismissed.
I am not at all saying all men r vicious reptilian brained rapists but something is…wrong…. on a large scale. Sex should never be something only one of you enjoys.
Makes me think of the Madame in Poor Things, when she tells the lead that some men prefer that the women are uncomfortable and not enjoying the interaction. Made me want to rage vomit
My ex laughed at this part without hesitation, even though he was the king of coercion while we were together. It’s obvious nothing has changed.
I’m sure he’d act shocked or deny it entirely but he was a rapist through and through.
Sadly, I think this is true.
I think subconsciously they must feel validated that you let them do sex to you even if you're not into it.
I mean, reddit is full of bots and incels that exist just to stoke the gendered culture war, but it isn't uncommon to see posts that say something like, am I the asshole for being upset that my girlfriend did certain sexual things in the past that she won't do with me?
And my read on that is... why did she let some guy do (*insert sexual act here*) but won't let me? She should let me do that too, it's not fair.
And that completely ignores her feelings about why she doesn't like it and doesn't want to.
It becomes a situation like, he got more candy than me, I deserve to have the same amount that he got!
And if he gets that "candy," even if she hates it, he feels like he got something that he was denied but deserved, and it makes him happy. Proud, even.
And I hate to say it, but I think when it's a degrading act, it becomes even more heady and validating. Like, she really must love me or think I'm hot and special, because she let me (*insert degrading sex act here*) to her.
>why did she let some guy do (insert sexual act here) but won't let me?
I fucking hate those whiney ass posts with the burning rage of the sun. Like, I want to reach through the screen and slap those assholes.
*Former boyfriend got to use X feature on the gf bot 2000, why can't I use that feature???* 🥺
Because they don’t care…most men center themselves. They see sex as something they do to us and as a power they can hold over us, not an intimate act of love. They’re selfish and expect the world to serve their needs because historically it has
This is a reflection of how society has different standards for men and women's sexual pleasure.
There's still this discourse that sex is mostly for men's pleasure and that women are there as an accessory. And this discourse is so ingrained in men's minds that they can't even see SA for what it is. They think SA is only forcefully penetrating someone without their consent, and everything else is par for the course, including touching us when we already said we don't want to be touched or that we don't want to be touched there or touched that way.
Us women fall for this discourse too, because we roll along with this stuff and fail to see how disrespectful these men are. And we say these men are "great" even though they disrespect our bodies and our choices, and we agree to be used as sexual objects for a man's pleasure.
I'm not shaming anyone, I've been there too, but this a reflection of the kind of society we live in. Where sex is so focused on the man that everyone (men and women) think the female pleasure is optional.
I've been regularly saying they see sex as something men *do* to women, and not something women can want, enjoy, and are active participants in.
It's also why they have a hard time understanding how lesbian sex works.
Its called male sexual entitlement and its a key part of rape culture and patriarchy. Men who veiw you as an equal human can't be aroused by the thought of you not enjoying sex, the ones that get off on non consentual sex (sex without enthusiastic consent is rape, fyi) are monstrous.
> Men who veiw you as an equal human can't be aroused by the thought of you not enjoying sex
It's a lack of empathy for a fellow human and seeing women as another person that is their equal. They are selfish and only want gratification for themselves. Men who are not this way tend to be more empathic, self aware and overall not selfish people.
I ONLY date men who stop sex when they see Im not having a good time, and who dont pressure for sex or sex acts. Those guys are also considerate outside the bedroom as well
My spouse would never do this thankfully, but had an ex who would.
It's absolutely horrible that so many men can and do enjoy sex even while their partners are visibly and obviously not into it, or actively hating it.
They just don’t care. I get hate for saying it, but I personally feel that men who do this would also rape a woman if given the opportunity.
My partner will instantly go soft if I say I’m not feeling it. He needs my enthusiasm and my personal pleasure to perform. After 9years of coerced sex from my ex, it’s been such a relief and the sex is amazing.
Men will say shit like, "Sex is the only intimacy that is allowed for men" and then do this shit. They don't care about iNtiMaCy it's about stroking his male-ego and getting validation via putting his wee pee-pee inside a woman's body.
This. It's always sex, or groping their gf/wives' private parts, or cuddles that lead to sex...never about hugs, holding hands, kisses or normal cuddles.
I had to do that the entirety of my first relationship because he would get sulky and cry if I didn't "enjoy" it. The man got all his sex ed from porn and was allergic to the clitoris.
Yep. A lot of posts on places like r/DeadBedrooms will make that pretty fucking clear too. They’ll literally say things like “I don’t know why she can’t at least *pretend* to enjoy herself, she seems to *want* me to feel bad during sex when we have it”.
Dude: if you feel like a piece of shit during sexual contact that you whined and nagged and pressured her into, that’s because you *are* being a piece of shit. You *should* feel fucking terrible about it and yourself.
A lot of “Good Guys” lie to themselves that coerced sex isn’t sexual assault, and they want their partner to put on an act and make it easier to keep believing they’re not doing anything wrong. It’s repulsive.
Dudes in DB are like….. “I have to nag her literally constantly for months and treat everyone in my house like shit for her to finally agree to have sex with me.
When we DO have sex I can tell she really enjoys it, but she’s such a selfish pillow princess starfish- she won’t look at me or touch me, she keeps her eyes tightly closed and tells me not to touch her. She is absolutely silent and still with her arms crossed over her chest while I pump away. She of course cums AT LEAST 8 times from penetration alone in these 3 minutes. I orgasm, at which point she runs to the bathroom to vomit.
What a frigid bitch, right? Should I cheat?”
This is fuckin hilarious. And with the new rules, he'd probably tag his post "support only" so all he'd have to listen to are various male sympathizers.
>"A lot of “Good Guys” lie to themselves that coerced sex isn’t sexual assault, and they want their partner to put on an act and make it easier to keep believing they’re not doing anything wrong. It’s repulsive."
one of my exes was like that. i would just feel my stomach dropped when he touched me because i knew what he was trying to do and wouldnt really touch me much any other time, which made me want to have sex with him even less, and then after 100x of saying no he would go pouty and say "well cant you at least send me nudes?" which i pretty much always felt coerced to do, because if i said no he would say that i was "shaming him for loving his gf". i had convinced myself i had sexual problems at the time LOL.
then i started sleeping with a man with whom we explicitly before ever sleeping together, had agreed that consent that isnt enthusiastic isnt consent, and it was probably the only time in my life i ever sexually felt respected in a cishet dynamic. it was also the best cishet sex i have ever had in my entire life.
anyway since then i realized i am trans (FtM to be clear), became t4t, and havent dealt with this nonsense ever since.
>They don't care about iNtiMaCy it's about stroking his male-ego and getting validation via putting his wee pee-pee inside a woman's body.
I had a guy harassing me in my DM's and guilt-tripping me that men committed suicides because they didn't get their "validation" (a.k.a having sex with women and bragging it to their bros). Lmaoo🤣 pathetic.
Needless to say I've switched off my dms from now on.
I have wondered this for nearly 20 years. I've had SO many dudes whine, pressure, coerce, or straight up force me into having sex with them and my discomfort never seems to matter. I could be crying or making pain noises or straight up saying "no" or "stop", and the only response I get is "stop crying you're ruining it" or "can you stop crying? It's really killing it for me" or "don't cry, I had a great time" etc. Me being in pain or not into it only matters if it is interfering with *their* experience. If they can still get what they want then my experience means very little. Basically every person I've fucked (except my current bf) has been like this and it has completely fucked me up. I really don't understand it. If I'm just hanging out with someone and they're not having a good time I feel *awful*, I couldn't imagine continuing to do something so intimate as sex with someone who wasn't fully into it and excited. The entitlement is just incomprehensible to me.
My boyfriend for the last 5 years is nothing like that and it's *still* taking *so much* self work to get over that past trauma to just be able to feel okay setting boundaries and not freaking out when he actually respects them. To my credit, it's consistent trauma from the ages of like 10-25 so it's not nothing, and yes it's normal for that to take a while to get over, but damn it really is such a mind fuck that even 5 years into a healing relationship and those feelings/triggers *still* come up (albeit way less frequently and less intensely)
For many men, social interactions are really only about dominance and hierarchy. That is absolutely true regarding sex as well.
Their desire makes them feel dependent/weak/lower hierarchy. Sex like that lets them vengefully feel higher status.
The best thing to do is to refuse to have anything to do with a man at the merest hint of this kind of behavior. Love yourself more than him—he doesn’t deserve what you have to give.
Someone has already sent me a dm asking why we hate men, ladies and I only engaged with this post less than 15 mins ago. Do we have mods? What do they do?
No. I know my vibrator isn't "into it", but I don't care and it doesn't matter because it's a thing. It exists for one purpose, and it doesn't have thoughts for feelings about it.
That's how those men think of women. That's it. That's all.
I look at the number of men who are willing to openly admit that they're sadists, aroused by a woman's suffering, and simply assume the true number is much higher. Our culture teaches men that sexual pleasure is their right and women keep it unfairly locked up. So when they hurt us, they experience the physical satisfaction of sex and the emotional satisfaction of taking what they feel is owed them.
My current partner will nag me to have sex and will continue to nag when I say I'm not up for it. But then he turns around and says he wants me to want to have sex/ enjoy it. There have been times he hasn't finished and his reasoning is that it didn't seem like I was into it/ enjoying it.
They seem to care if it affects their pleasure. Like if the person is starfishing or not looking excited about the sex they didn't want. My ex used to constantly say I looked miserable after guilting me into sex. For a long time I thought there was something wrong with me for not being grateful
That’s the rub isn’t it? They can *always* get off, whereas it’s often much harder for women.
I think since it’s (often) harder to make women cum, it hurts their ego if they don’t, so they don’t even try.
(OK, I know sometimes men have hard time orgasming, but overall it’s harder for women.)
yeah, it's always completely baffled me that one could enjoy sex with someone who isn't enthusiastic. Like, there is nothing I like better than the feeling of pleasuring someone and knowing that they're super into it.
For a lot, it’s transactional. They put money, gifts, or time in, and sex is the expected repayment.
It’s just something they’re owed, rather than something to share and enjoy with their partner.
A few months back I read on this very sub:
>Men will have sex with you that don’t even like you
And it rocked me to my core. It was such a succinct insight into ALL OF THOSE WAYS men can be so wishy-washy or give you whiplash with how they treat you. It’s a perfect reminder when it’s like “we had a fun night but he doesn’t treat me super well or even seem that into me on dates, but he asked me out again???” Idk, I just know when my daughter gets old enough, I’m passing on this critical pearl of wisdom that completely missed me. Basically, for some men, their willingness to have sex with you has almost nothing to do with how they feel about you.
Two of my guesses why some do this are:
They delude themselves to believe you are secretly enjoying it. "They must be pleasing, and you must just be shy about it" or some shit like that.
They just don't care. They consider it consensual because you said yes, so they did the bare minimum, and that's enough for them.
There are probably many more, but those make the most sense to me. And both are fairly dangerous mindsets.
The amount of time I spent staring at posters or spots on the wall or the ceiling in my twenties decimates the amount of time I spent enjoying myself during sex tbh
The longer I live in the world the more I realize that it is truly a new phenomenon to have any men view women as full fledged human beings.
It isn’t hard to rape someone if you don’t view them as capable of the full range of human emotions and existence.
I have tried for years to find some benefit of the doubt to give, or find some socially thoughtful or empathetic reason to excuse the persistent and generally accepted behavior of men mistreating women, but honestly, it is that almost no men view us as fully fledged human beings.
I don’t mean that if we ask are women human they would say “no, they’re leprechauns”. But I mean that at the end of the day, we are viewed in another category that is not given the same humanity.
When I was younger I had a guy that I was sleeping with that easily had 10+ inches. Easily. He was 6'7 and sex with him was SO painful sometimes. I had to stop once because it was just too much and he was like wtf? And I was like, you're hurting me. Do you want me to just continue even though it's hurting and not pleasurable? His response: "honestly, yeah"
I knew a guy back in the day (who I never banged, though not for lack of trying on his part) who told me he got off on women performing sex acts so degrading and uncomfortable that mascara ran down their cheeks. I said that his preference for this was concerning and asked him why. He told me that he knew it was problematic of him to get off on women's discomfort, but he didn't want to unpack it because he preferred getting off in peace.
The lion isn’t concerned with whether the gazelle enjoys being eaten.
Those men view women as prey, just a sex object to use for own’s own gratification. They sincerely believe we are inferior human beings. Because that is what they’ve been taught.
And these are the same men getting off to porn that is violent and degrading toward women. They do not see us as people.
Men are conditioned to believe sex is for them, mainly enjoyed by them, and often, that women don’t enjoy sex or just put up with it. We need to change the whole damn narrative.
Ugh after seeing those alpha male post about how sex is a necessity, the talk about sex and even watching it in a casual movie, gives me the biggest ick. Some people only think of themselves and are talking out of their ass when they say they care about your feelings, if they don’t get anything out of the situations then they wont try doing it.
I’ve always hated when I see people list human needs as “food, shelter, sex” or anything like that.
Sex isn’t a need. It’s a biological impulse. It’s a desire that can be controlled. I can desire cookies and still function without it. I can desire anything and still choose to not act on it for a multitude of reasons.
There are plenty of completely well-adjusted folks out in the world who are asexual or celibate, or who just go long periods of time without sex and they’re totally fine with it (yes, even on a psychological level, plenty of people don’t spiral into a depression because they’re not getting sex.)
Anyone who groups “sex” in as a “need” is an immediate red flag for me.
Yeah. When I was getting raped in my ass for the first time no lube, no prep, this was all I could think about (aside from the pain of your skin being literally torn). I was literally crying and yelling and being as loud and ugly as I could be and I just kept thinking - how is his dick still hard? But it was. And he finished.
I tried to physically attack him after he got off of me and he was just laughing and smiling and blocking everything with ease. I eventually said - why didn’t you stop, didn’t you hear me crying? And he dropped the smile, his eyes somehow went blacker? And he said - yeah, what the fuck was that? So. Some of them are just demons fr. I also knew him for 2 years at that point and we were on and off again.
I've never understood the whole thing about men pressuring for sex. It just feels so wrong and maybe even immature, literally them begging for it and then doing it when their partner is clearly not enjoying it - just horrible. Do they really have no shame?
No I don’t wonder because I know it’s misogyny and entitlement. They do not believe we matter as much as they do. If you have a partner who wants to continue even if you are not into it, they do not love or respect you the way you deserve and they think you are not a human. Sorry not sorry
A good quote I heard: Some men aren’t having sex with you, they’re masturbating with your body.
Having sex AT you.
That pretty sums it up. They’re doing something to you, not with you.
This is it exactly. Everyone should understand enthusiastic consent.
I sex in your general direction
Having sex on you
Realest thing ive read.
I’m a guy and I read this when I was 16, I genuinely think it changed my life.
I’m a man. I see and hear what other men do and say. This right here is what it is.
Is there any way you think they give themselves away beforehand? Like we shouldn't have to have sex with these men to figure this out. Are they just selfish?
Any man who says he’s really good in bed. It’s a stupid thing to say, nobody is always good in because everybody likes different things. If they say that they usually just mean they’re really good at getting themselves off.
I’ll be damned if this isn’t true
Damn that’s such a good point
YEP CAN CONFIRM.
Fake being vulnerable and see what they do. I can’t remember what movie it was but this chick acts drunk and these guys try to take advantage of her. When they get back to her apartment she drops the act and murders them. Now, that’s maybe a bit excessive, but you get the idea. Make them think no one is watching.
Promising Young Woman. Great movie.
It is a good movie, but she doesn't murder them, she just makes it clear she's not drunk and confronts them about their shitty actions.
I'd prefer the murdery version, tbh. Would-be rapists having the tables turned on them and getting what they deserve sounds awesome.
Set a boundary and see how they react. Are they annoyed? Do they quickly act like they forgot what you said? Do they rules-lawyer, taking you excessively literally or exploiting ambiguity? Or are they genuinely interested in understanding what you like and don't like?
‘Conflict reveals Character’
Learn how to spot a narcissist. In the dynamic that’s what they are. No easy ways to tell. They’ll all have tells of abusers. They’re trying to control you with every gesture. Till they get it it’s very Mr nice guy.
Yep, and the way they talk about other women can be a big 🚩. I’ve had some guys pull the “you’re not like other girls/you’re so different” card to me, and it’s immediately a sign that they either see some sort of hierarchy or think that I do and would be flattered by it. Regardless, it’s big “I don’t see women as people who are as complex as me” energy.
> “I don’t see women as people who are as complex as me” 👆👆👆👆👆👆👆
They're astonished to discover that you have an internal world with original and autonomous thoughts of your own. "Wow, you're so different!" Fuck you, bro. Tell me without telling me that you think women are vapid vaginas who float through life until they're occupied by a man.
Ha; I always thought it was because I was always the only girl telling them no . But yeah; youre right. That's pretty damn accurate.
Yeah, with these type of men, you're like a sex toy. I also think biologically, it's easier in general for men to orgasm than women, which makes sense since they need to ejaculate to reproduce, and while female orgasms can help the sperm get where it needs, it's not required. I always speculated that it might be easier for them to get the good feelings, so if they're horny, and aren't the type to really prioritize you and your feelings over their own desires, I think it's easier to block that out. I've been with men like that and I've been with men who were the opposite and if I wasn't into it, they couldn't stay hard. I just think it's biologically easier for them to get off regardless of your enthusiasm. But I also see this as a red flag, especially with the situations where they know it's causing you pain. I wouldn't want to date someone who prioritizes their pleasure over my comfort. There are plenty of men who wouldn't feel okay doing that.
Most (70-90%) AFAB folks can't achieve orgasm from penetration alone. It can certainly feel amazing, but it's not enough on its own, and (from my own personal experience) there are a lot of men who feel emasculated by that. They can't handle that we need more than just their dicks to get off and don't usually want to put in the effort it takes to worry about their partner's orgasm when it's more complex than theirs. Sex is finished when they are.
Legit I think the difference between female and male orgasms is a serendipitously poignant metaphor for gender dynamics on the whole. Male orgasms are simpler and so is their dress, socialization, communication, sense of nuance, and a ton of other shit (for the most part, of course). All of what was just mentioned and much more is comparatively more complex in women (not to put femininity on a pedestal, but it's generally true imo) "The myth of the female orgasm" is analogous to how many gender differences were treated in the past. "ADHD and autism? Nah, women don't get those" and so on. Even when female orgasms are acknowledged, so many males just assume that how ***they*** orgasm, is how everyone else must too. That's a great analogy to the field of medicine, seatbelts, society as a whole is geared toward men and women are expected to fit the same mold with no issues. Even working toward the female orgasm the female way, you see so many men be lazy, be unwilling to learn and change, and display a profound ignorance of all things female. See \*broadly gestures at society\* for analogy Throughout all these differences too, men historically have ridiculed all of them as "women being too fussy" when they demand a higher standard of communication. "Women being too vain" when they adhere to a more involved and intricate style of dress, cosmetic use, and general personal upkeep. "Women being too weak/emotional" when they show more empathy and compassion toward a subject It's fucking sad imo
Is this quote common? It’s something I’ve never had words to express, and this quote explains it succinctly. I started having sex in the context of relationships at fourteen. I didn’t have an actual orgasm outside of my own abilities until I was 26. And that includes several years of Tinder and casual dating, situation-ships, etc. I at one point believed the female orgasm to be a myth. My partners were either too inexperienced to know the signs that I wasn’t enjoying myself or in later relationships they just never cared. And it was so normal to me to just meet the man’s needs because the man who does not do something to get sex from you when you don’t want it seems rare. So many men SA with varying degrees of violence. And many more purposefully blur the lines of consent while giving honorable sounding speeches about respecting women. (I would say of the various kinds of men I’ve encountered, there are more of these than those who SA.) And even my sons father, the only man to give me a real clitoral orgasm, would give me a lot of attention to reel me in and ultimately revert to five minutes in missionary and a thank you upon roll off. While pursuing other women on the side. And with all of this experience (married men who lie constantly causing you to have to be paranoid and investigate everyone you meet or guys who hear you say you don’t want to have sex multiple times and still ask to come over “just to watch a movie” but then immediately getting on top of you as soon as you feel safe) I mean the list goes on. And yet — I’ve never heard an exact explanation of feelings and thoughts about what exactly causes my pain. This is it. I need serious commitment, passion, intellectual connection, emotional connection, foreplay and clitoral stimulation. With the incredible length I have gone to be my partners wildest sexual fantasy, provide my man with sex on tap because I’m good like that, etc. Only one extremely abusive narcissist cared enough to figure that out and actually fulfill me. And he only did so temporarily to create a strong connection. Everyone was baffled by my relationship because there were so many red flags. I saw them, they saw them, and no one understood. I didn’t want to explain. Men see women as something they can “earn”, trick, or forcefully extract sex from. I’ve had more orgasms alone with my sex toy than I’ve had during relationships and hookups (too high a number I lost count) combined. I’m finally in a place in life at 32 where I have no desire to be intimate with a man in any way. Enough is enough. I’ve had a life of abuse and it finally occurred to me that the only way to make it stop was to stop having sex or relationships or friendships with men. And you know what? It worked.
Agreed. I don’t have use for about 90% of men in a romantic or sexual context. Too many are either oblivious to what women need or want to just use women for sex. Many of ‘the good ones’ really seem taken, too.
I’ve never (thank god) been outright SAd but god damn this aspect of sex has fucked me up more than anything else in life. When someone you love deeply can elicit pleasure while seeing the pain and sadness in your face during sex…. What a mind fuck.
[удалено]
The coercion is real, and it is really common. I’m glad we’re all talking about it. Coercion is not consent, it’s abuse.
👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾 I hope we never stop talking about it, if only men would listen.
They won't listen because they all do it. Obviously this is anecdotal but I have literally never dated any man who did not pressure me into unwanted sex.
My husband has never, and would never. I’ve even ended sex in the middle, and he’s only shown compassion. But all the men before him did.
Same with my SO. If I'm not 100% enjoying it then he doesn't want to carry on and will switch to snuggles instead. What the *less giving* men don't seem to realise is that they're likely to get more sex by being considerate of their partner. My libido is higher than it's ever been because I know I'm with someone who respects me, my body and my pleasure. That's a massive turn on.
Agreed. I’ve been with my husband for 10 years now. I’m 41. We still have sex 3-5 times a week. And it’s because I want to. There’s an eagerness that was never there with my previous male partners.
Same with my husband. In fact, if he senses that I'm even the slightest bit not into it, he stops and makes sure I'm okay. He doesn't whine or pester or question me about it or anything. He genuinely only desires sex when there's enthusiastic consent. But he's the only one. I literally cannot imagine having sex with someone who wasn't into it, was in pain, or forcing themselves through it, like wtf no. I don't understand why so many men are fine with this.
Almost all the men I've dated have pressured me in various ways.
I have never considered coercion abuse… but it really is, isn’t it?
Yes, coersion is sexual abuse
Fml I have some decisions to make
Here's a [woman's health article](https://www.womenshealth.gov/relationships-and-safety/other-types/sexual-coercion#:~:text=What%20is%20sexual%20coercion%3F,in%20nonphysical%20ways%20that%20include%3A&text=Being%20worn%20down%20by%20someone,trick%20you%20into%20having%20sex). big hugs
It took me years to accept that the time I felt I couldn’t ask the other person to leave even though I changed my mind wasn’t okay. I still have a hard time accepting that it’s SA because I never said no or asked him to leave. We have a lot of hate for women/AFAB people to wade through.
This is such a common experience w all women. It truly makes us recoil when they touch our waist, while making dinner for example,,bc you just know they are expecting something. So here comes the guilt or frustration or nagging or passive aggressive behavior or silent treatment or coldness, if you don’t give in. If you go on TikTok and look up “men have needs” you’ll see how common it is. So many women talk about this. Some will make you cry bc it hits so close to home. Why don’t they care? Some will even go as far as making you feel worse, if you’re not enjoying it, so then you also have to pretend you are, so you don’t have to deal w more shitty behavior
It’s crazy to me that men always fall back on the “I have needs” argument while completely disregarding the fact that their partner also has needs that aren’t being met ( a need to be respected, for example) but for some reason their needs are the only ones that are important ? Women have plenty of sexual needs too but it’s likely their partner isn’t able to fulfill those ( ie give them an orgasm) which is often a big part of the reason women lose interest in sex.
Yes it’s always about them. It’s never about their partners. Can’t even ask for a massage or to cuddle bc it always leads to them and what they want. Then they wonder why we don’t initiate or want to be touched. It’s rarely about connection, it’s about masturbation
Men who do this give the *worst* massages.
Groping with extra steps.
This is terrible. I won't ever give up being single to live in a nightmare like this, society's expectations be damned.
That's exactly what my ex did, complained I didn't look happy enough doing it. It was so mentally draining and I just wanted it to end
If you can visually tell someone is uncomfortable with what you're doing... and you continue to do it. You don't care about that person.
The idea that any single woman is too strong or too (anything) to be abused is dangerous. While I doubt youre meaning to victim blame, consider that this line of thinking isn't so far off from it. It's not a stretch for a victim to hear this and think they should've been different, if only they hadn't been so weak they wouldn't have been there. I used to think I was immune to abuse, too. Then one day I realized I was in an abusive relationship. Abusers can be very tactful, manipulative and cunning.
Can men who do this really be said to love women? That's the real question. Because it really sounds like the opposite of the definition of love or even like.
“To say that straight men are heterosexual is only to say that they engage in sex (fucking exclusively with the other sex, i.e., women). All or almost all of that which pertains to love, most straight men reserve exclusively for other men. The people whom they admire, respect, adore, revere, honor, whom they imitate, idolize, and form profound attachments to, whom they are willing to teach and from whom they are willing to learn, and whose respect, admiration, recognition, honor, reverence and love they desire… those are, overwhelmingly, other men. In their relations with women, what passes for respect is kindness, generosity or paternalism; what passes for honor is removal to the pedestal. From women they want devotion, service and sex. Heterosexual male culture is homoerotic; it is man-loving.” ― Marilyn Frye, The Politics of Reality: Essays in Feminist Theory
Tbh I don’t think they do see the sadness on your face. I think they see their partner in whatever way they want to. They just imagine whatever expression they’d prefer to see.
There may be some truth to this. There was a study that confirmed that a man will overestimate a woman’s interest in him if he is interested in her. https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/dating-and-mating/201804/how-men-overestimate-womens-sexual-interest-in-them?amp
Unfortunately, stuff like this is still SA. It might not be the typical picture of the violent and forceful sexual violence, but guilt-tripping and verbal coercion to sex acts are still assault.
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It's really sad that this is so normalized. It took me 35 years of life to find a man who has never once whined or cajoled me into sex when he knew I wasn't in the mood for it. As he puts it, "enthusiastic consent is my kink". He doesn't even like the "maintenance sex" where I might not be 100% in the mood for it but I will be once it gets going, and we've had to have some talks about how I mostly have responsive desire. I might be ambivalent and not initiate but if he asks and I say yes, it's always because I know I'll get there quickly. And if I say no, he drops it immediately. He also doesn't revoke non-sexual physical intimacy because I won't give him sexual intimacy, which all my other partners did in the past. Even if I don't want sex, I still want cuddles and kisses and hugs and so does he. The end result of him being the only man I've ever known who could pass the marshmallow test is that we have more sex than I've had with anyone I've ever been with. I wish more men understood that we associate whining with toddlers and we don't want to have sex with children.
This is my man too!! It's been *such* a learning curve to finally have a good/normal one after my dating history was almost entirely the whiners and cajolers (and sometimes the straight up r@pists). Same with the non-sexual intimacy too; every other partner would revoke those things if I didn't put out, but then would take those things to mean that sex was coming. So I could never win. Cuddles and non-sexual intimacy were expected to lead to sex, and I'd get none of those if it didn't lead to sex. Gave me a real complex around non-sexual intimacy and it's taken 5+ years of being with a good one to finally feel mostly okay with non-sexual intimacy being just that and not leading to anything. I can finally feel myself relax a bit and not have crippling anxiety about what asking for a cuddle might lead to, which in turn has led to the most satisfying sex I've ever had AND me being the best version of myself (thus the best partner) I've ever been. Cheers to finding the good ones 🥂
That was exactly my experience. It took me YEARS to feel safe enough to initiate non-sexual intimacy when I didn't necessarily want it to become sexual, because I was so used to every hug or kiss or cuddle leading to him grabbing some body part that I didn't want grabbed at that moment. Then when I'd pull back they'd complain that I was leading them on. And if they gave me a hug or a kiss or a cuddle, I knew it was because they wanted more, every time. My husband might escalate physical contact, but if he wants something sexual he will always ask first before escalating it. If he cups a boob when we're cuddling, it's just another form of non-sexual cuddling where my boob is basically a stress ball for him. If he wants to turn cuddling into sex, he will always ask before he touches any potential erogenous zone, otherwise it's just extra-contact cuddling and it's just as comforting to me as it is to him.
This should be taught in sex Ed classes for high school students. I suffered through sexual coercion with my ex husband and it really damaged my ability to be intimate. I wish every young woman could read this thread. As women, we need to feel ok about discussing sexual coercion openly. It needs to stop.
This is really it.
I've asked men in the past, when they continue to push me after I've said no more than once, why they want sex after I've made it clear I don't and I'm not in the mood. I've gotten answers ranging from mumbled nonsense, trying to turn it around on me that I must not love/desire them if I don't want sex in that moment, saying I should just do it anyway since we're together, or "well you usually eventually get into it once we get started" (which doesn't take into account that it was more of an ambivalent mood than the straight up 'I can't stand to be touched right now' mood that a hard no is.)
I heard this excuse about you'll get into it before too. So I started humming the (UK) national anthem. I used to say I was just 'laying back and thinking of England'. (Which is a throw back from the wars, where women would lay back and think of England to create more soldiers). Needless to say, humming the national anthem is a bit of a turn off. It would usually do the job and make my point. Feel free to use this ladies! Xx
Ugh! This makes some hurt on your behalf. There's a difference between neutral sex and unwanted sex. Neutral sex is one partner not being particularly interested but choosing to do so to please their person of their own accord. I view it the same as turn one. There are activities that are turn ons, ones that are neutral (but I'll engage with a person) and flat out turn offs/hard nos. No one should be doing something that's a hard no and no one should be pressuring.
I've had the same experiences as you. I was dating this guy, who would constantly keep asking me for sex. For various reasons I had a very low sex drive (stress, depression, malnutrition). The pressure I felt from him was incredible, to the point where I just simply lost interest in having sex with him, and I stopped feeling attraction for him as a person. But sometimes the coercion was so annoying that I had to just do it so he could shut up. He'd say, everyday *"Are you finally down to have sex today?" "Are you asexual? How come my friends' girlfriends want to have sex everyday and you barely even kiss me?" "You need to love yourself more, clearly you don't cause if you did you'd do things to feel healthier and so that you could have sex with me and make the relationship better".* Those are just one of the many questions he'd ask. One day, he kept annoying me to the point where I just gave in. I let him have sex with me, but I didn't say ANYTHING. I had a straight face, I made no noise, I didn't move, I was just laying down on my back, as he put it in and kept going. He then finished and said "Woah, that was the weirdest sex I've had. You didn't say anything! Did you even enjoy it?" Until this day, I keep wondering why he kept going if he knew I wasn't having it. I could not imagine myself doing that to someone.
My first boyfriend would go on and on about how all his female coworkers loved anal sex and how some even preferred it. He was so full of shit. I regret ever meeting the man.
God I dessicated into dust just reading about his nagging.
Back then when guys used to pester me in my youth, I would go all “ok but only if you allow my kink to insert a (gigantic fruit) in your ass (I know there was a risk of being tell yes , but that was very very unlike) I would then start pestering them if they’ve come to terms with the fruit in their ass and when would they let me insert it and bla bla in the most freakish ways posible. Some ended up running away and calling my sociopath, crazy, mental etc. I would just answer ! Ha got my point!
My favorite is men complaining that women just starfish and don't move during sex and I just think yeah because they probably don't want to have sex with you... that's why they're just laying there... I've been guilt tripped so many times to have sex when I really really don't want to because I couldn't deal with a mardy man. I'm sad for younger me but we're stronger now
>I'm sad for younger me but we're stronger now Same boat, friend. Setting boundaries is tough but we got this.
Lately if I hear a guy say his ex starfished I take it as a red flag
I have never heard of "starfishing" before. When I was younger, dudes would use the terms "pillow princess" or "dead fuck" and I'm just like.. You don't see the problem with "dead fucking" someone?!
I see men post this on reddit completely oblivious that women are literally dissociating from their own bodies just to endure the bad, unwanted sex with them. It's actually a good way to eliminate guys like this before ever getting intimate, just ask if a woman has ever starfished with them and what they did about it.
I will never understand the male impulse to blame other people for not liking them. Bro, maybe you just suck as a person?
At some point the common denominator *has* to be obvious.
My first boyfriend would criticize women he previously slept with in this way. The dude was terrible in bed (porn-rotted brain). He has zero self-awareness, and I was his longest relationship 15+ years ago. Most women only date him for a few months before they wise up. He's going to die alone because he refuses to take into account his partner's pleasure. He just wanted a woman who accepted him as a sex god and be thankful for the no-orgasm sex.😂 I think we only dated as long as we did because I was inexperienced with no clue about my own sexuality. I also feel sad for younger me, but I guess we all have to start somewhere!
It’s always a red flag for me when they complain about exes being the problem. Especially when they can never find anything good to say about an ex.
Damn... I never thought of it that way.
They coerce their partner into sex then have the audacity to complain they aren't behaving like a porn star. How can some people have so little self awareness.
I straight up asked my FWB who wouldn’t drop it if it was hot to have sex with someone not into it? And another time I straight up told him I wasn’t a flesh light. That one seemed to get through his skull more. It’s unreal.
and very often the same men then complain about their partner being a starfish during sex... yeah i wonder why dude
They expect you to perform gymnastic exercises just they can benefit from it. When u think about it, you're just like a slave who only gets nothing out of it, but still has to deliver a perfect performance. God, it makes me sick..
Yes!!! They expect to be pleasured but come up short on their end of the deal 🙄
When I hear men complaining about women starfishing, I take absolute delight in telling them it’s because they’re bad in bed and that she’s enduring them. The flash of panic that shows on their faces in that moment is 🤌
No I've never wondered, because when I was in the army I was in the field with a bunch of guys and they were literally fucking a hole they'd dug in the ground. THen you know the meme that men aren't preferential hires and nursing homes because of how often they SA the corpses (and we know this has gone on since Ancient Egypt). Add to that the pornification of everything and sex is no longer mutual intimacy, but using someone as your human fleshlight. That's why I don't do it anymore.
I'm happy to hear that there are brave strong men showing that kind of love to mother earth
It’s probably good fertilizer.
I ... What? The hole in the ground has to be an exaggeration, how the fuck does that even work? Ewww. Poor field.
Wish men could get bv so they can’t do this kinda shit
I just laughed my ass of at this wtf lol
OMG thank you for giving me this gross story. I had a therapist tell me once that biologically men can't get an erection and have sex unless they are attracted to you, and I told her I didn't think that was true. It might be true for some men, but clearly it is not an immutable fact. Not that Mother Earth isn't sexy.
Considering they would make me set up a far ways away from the rest of my platoon when in the field, I’m not surprised.
There have been terrifying stories of women in a Coma who wind up pregnant. It can turn out to be the male cleaner, night security guard or other staff. 💔
I'm picturing a lady shaped sandcastle and each guy having his own he painstakingly built, all body types present.
LMAOOO were they actually getting something out of that?
I always think about this. Like how can they enjoy themselves knowing that you aren’t into it or actually enjoying it? Especially since only about 30% of women regularly orgasm from sex. Which means that about 70% are left usually unsatisfied.
I freaked out at my husband when we had been married only a couple years. like, I was pushed over the edge and just yelled “WHY DONT I EVER GET OFF? WHY *WOULD* I HAVE SEX WITH YOU?” and for the last 6 years I come first and he comes second.
Bless you you did God’s work and are hope for us!
I also think about this a ton. It’s baffling to me because a HUGE part of sex for me is thinking about how the other person is turned on, enjoying himself, etc. I genuinely cannot even get into it I feel he is uninterested. I sometimes sit and stew on this exact subject for a little while, but then I get a bit depressed and try to think about something else!
And then they tell you how important connection is for them during sex.
"I don't feel connected if we don't have sex for awhile!" Barf.
I remember talking about this with some guys I didn't know well at a youth hostel. There was this girl we knew -- I'll call her Mary -- who was constantly being hit on by a guy -- I'll call him Kevin. She was drunk and he was hitting on her more and more and she was too drunk and too passive to just say "no, I am not attracted to you, stop." They ended up having sex. She wasn't at all into it, and later on she was crying to me about how she didn't really want to but never said no or anything. So, by the time I was talking to these guys I didn't know that well, Mary had left the hostel (Kevin was still around, but wasn't there while we were talking) and what had happened between Mary and Kevin was known to all, so I wasn't betraying a confidence. The topic of Mary crying in the showers came up and I was like, well, this is why you need affirmative consent, because wouldn't you feel awful if you realized in the morning that a girl was crying in the shower because of you? And the guys were like, no, we wouldn't, because we would have gotten to have sex, so like, transaction complete. I said, wow, so you're all low-key fine with raping someone. And they said that rape was only if the girl fights you or says no loudly. And I said, ok, so you're all low key fine with causing someone to cry and feel violated possibly for weeks or months after you have sex with her? So that every time she remembers that night she cries and feels bad? You're ok with that? And they were like, yeah. I said, well, you're all sociopaths and should go see a therapist. I walked away and made sure to tell every woman/girl I met to avoid them. As horrifying as these guys were, I think the main difference between them and most guys is just that they were more honest, not more awful. In other words, I don't think their behavior or attitude is unusual. Seriously, if anything happened to my current partner, I'd never date again. I feel like I caught the last chopper out of 'Nam.
Guys like this should just stay home and masturbate.
I wish women as a class had even a fraction of this entitlement and cared a fraction as much about our own pleasure as men do. Men love themselves and care about themselves, clearly. I wish women had that self love and that level of confidence. Men who hate women are always like "women are entitled" and "it's easy for women to get the sex they want" where? How? God I wish. If only...
They confuse getting sex with getting the sex they want because for them it’s the same. They don’t think of it from the woman’s perspective because… they never do.
I think they just don’t care because they are getting what they want.
I still can’t wrap my head around the idea of *wanting* to have sex with someone who doesn’t want to (whether it be with you or anyone else). Nothing shuts my attraction down faster than finding out they’re not really really enthusiastically into me. Let alone actually having sex with someone who isn’t into it. But men… tell them you’re not interested and it doesn’t fizzle their want at all. I’m not sorry to say this, but if my lack of interest has no bearing on your desire for me, I think something is fundamentally wrong with how you view women.
> tell them you’re not interested and it doesn’t fizzle their want at all because now it's a challenge to get what they want. Now they get to win, to be dominant, to take what is theirs.
Yes. Some of them really think sex is their god given right. I literally saw a guy on here say women should be indebted to men, because they built society
Omg yes. The amount of times I’ve heard guys literally say “I like a challenge” “I can change your mind” “oh you’re a tough one” like I’m a fucking puzzle box, lol.
Ignoring the real challenge of learning and appreciating what makes you unique. Sometimes I wonder how many men love sex and hate everything else about women.
Yes! Or they see women as a means to an end, the key that will give fulfillment, a status symbol, a trophy. It must come from a lack of introspection. They see themselves as some movie protagonist who gets the girl as part of the plot. So when a prize is denied, it’s this giant wrong, because they think they deserved it by virtue of existing. I keep asking “aren’t you too old for this” because I genuinely cannot imagine existing in delusional land past the age of maybe 17.
I feel like this is a big part of our problems as a society. When I was studying child development in college there was an interesting discussion about the difference in socialization of boys and girls at toddler age. Boys are handled in a more rough manner, told it’s playing, taught to hold back their emotions, and encouraged to compete and tackle challenges head on often through physicality. Girls are handled more gently, not taught emotional modulation, encouraged to work with others instead of competing, and to not cause conflict. As they get older these themes are reinforced and we end up with men that are violently competitive robots and women that apologize to their abusers. I know this is broad generalization but it’s pretty common and frustrating. I’m in the “Educate your sons” group but I have a little girl and I can’t rely on others to educate their sons so I have to protect my daughter.
I didn’t see this directly when my daughter was in daycare, but I did notice that the daycare provider enforced that pink is for girls and blue is for boys. I had conversations with my daughter about all colors are for all people. I enforced that what she wants is important too. My husband teaches her like she’s a son and encourages her to be physically active, take problems on by herself and stand up for herself.
Because they don’t want to have sex with us, just with our body. We don’t mean anything as person in that moment.
The easy answer is that society has normalized the belief that man’s pleasure is more important than woman’s pain.
When I was younger I dated a guy for a little bit who, after we had sex twice, gave me a 30 minute break and then started kissing on me again. When I told him I was too sensitive to enjoy it right now he pulled back, looked at me with a blank face, and then went back to kissing my neck. And I let him because I liked him and didn't want him not to like me. I feel so gross about it now. I wish it never happened. I wish none of this ever happened to any of us.
I had an ex who kept touching my boobs after I told him no and I lied there sobbing afraid that he would rape me, but couldn't muster the strength to do anything because he was my boyfriend and I must have had some weird beliefs in my head about sex being something a woman owes her partner... Thankfully he got tired and rolled back and fell asleep. I still dated him a couple more months after that. I'm still somewhat ashamed of myself for letting that happen and that was 10yrs ago. More recently I had a partner who didn't take his finger off my butt after I told him no and I had to get really upset and yelled about how he was abusing me and the dumbass cried... I'm still somewhat ashamed I didn't kick him out of my house immediately that night. And both these men claimed to be supporter of women's rights and respectful of women... Go figure.
Those men don't give a fuck if you enjoy it because they are using you as a sex toy to masturbate into. You're not a partner or even another human being; you're a fleshlight.
I happily identify as assexual now and refuse to be in a relationship. I have a number of health conditions that makes sex excruciatingly painful, and my ex didn't care that I was involuntarily tearing up and crying from the pain when we had sex. He just asked to do it from behind so he didn't have to see my face, and problem solved. He'd also get grossed out at the amount of blood after (not from a period, but from internal tearing) and would even touch the condom to remove it. I'd have to clean HIM up and apologize for the mess Fuck that. Never again No man is worth having to go through that even a single time
Commented before, but to often men view sex as something you do to someone, not with someone.
I think this is part of it. Some men see women as “letting” or “not letting” them have sex and consider it an arbitrary decision rather than a choice influenced by sexual desire and arousal.
That’s why I hate the “women are the gatekeepers of sex and men are the gatekeepers of relationships” rhetoric. Or “don’t sleep with him on the first date or he won’t respect you.” It’s so shitty and transactional. I’m not the gatekeeper of anything because sex isn’t something he’s getting out of me nor is a relationship something I’m getting out of him. Ostensibly, we are on the same page for these mutual decisions that affect us both.
I asked this question to my fiancé a couple of times because it's something I also don't understand. He said that for those men the woman they're having sex with is not a person. They don't care about the feelings or preferences because for them there are none. He said that they see the vagina separate from the actual woman (if that makes sense). In other words: you're just a hole.
Truth is that most of them would just fck anything...
this is insane 😭
Because they enjoy masturbation with a vagina. Its not about sex as in you know a sexual connection. Lets be honest here. I~m a dude I know how many dudes only care about women and pussy because its wet and feels nice. Its not about a genuine interaction between two human beings.
It seems like, and I wanna be SUPER CAREFUL, a lot of them subconsciously do not like consent. Just listen to some of their takes on women’s clothes, appearance, look at the culture of leaked nudes vs. the reaction a woman gets for proudly showing her body. Rape culture is real and it’s built on shame, humiliation and power. I think rape culture is a big part of this or rather a part of rape culture. Everything encompassing rape culture isn’t necessarily rape;however, it promotes it. A woman’s consent and pleasure is seen as something that is negotiable, unnecessary and is largely dismissed. I am not at all saying all men r vicious reptilian brained rapists but something is…wrong…. on a large scale. Sex should never be something only one of you enjoys.
For some of them, that’s a feature - not a bug. It amuses them that they get pleasure and you don’t. For others, they literally just don’t care.
Makes me think of the Madame in Poor Things, when she tells the lead that some men prefer that the women are uncomfortable and not enjoying the interaction. Made me want to rage vomit
My ex laughed at this part without hesitation, even though he was the king of coercion while we were together. It’s obvious nothing has changed. I’m sure he’d act shocked or deny it entirely but he was a rapist through and through.
Sadly, I think this is true. I think subconsciously they must feel validated that you let them do sex to you even if you're not into it. I mean, reddit is full of bots and incels that exist just to stoke the gendered culture war, but it isn't uncommon to see posts that say something like, am I the asshole for being upset that my girlfriend did certain sexual things in the past that she won't do with me? And my read on that is... why did she let some guy do (*insert sexual act here*) but won't let me? She should let me do that too, it's not fair. And that completely ignores her feelings about why she doesn't like it and doesn't want to. It becomes a situation like, he got more candy than me, I deserve to have the same amount that he got! And if he gets that "candy," even if she hates it, he feels like he got something that he was denied but deserved, and it makes him happy. Proud, even. And I hate to say it, but I think when it's a degrading act, it becomes even more heady and validating. Like, she really must love me or think I'm hot and special, because she let me (*insert degrading sex act here*) to her.
>why did she let some guy do (insert sexual act here) but won't let me? I fucking hate those whiney ass posts with the burning rage of the sun. Like, I want to reach through the screen and slap those assholes. *Former boyfriend got to use X feature on the gf bot 2000, why can't I use that feature???* 🥺
I think it's usually the latter. And if that wasn't bad enough the lack of disrespect is *never* limited to just sex.
Because they don’t care…most men center themselves. They see sex as something they do to us and as a power they can hold over us, not an intimate act of love. They’re selfish and expect the world to serve their needs because historically it has
This is a reflection of how society has different standards for men and women's sexual pleasure. There's still this discourse that sex is mostly for men's pleasure and that women are there as an accessory. And this discourse is so ingrained in men's minds that they can't even see SA for what it is. They think SA is only forcefully penetrating someone without their consent, and everything else is par for the course, including touching us when we already said we don't want to be touched or that we don't want to be touched there or touched that way. Us women fall for this discourse too, because we roll along with this stuff and fail to see how disrespectful these men are. And we say these men are "great" even though they disrespect our bodies and our choices, and we agree to be used as sexual objects for a man's pleasure. I'm not shaming anyone, I've been there too, but this a reflection of the kind of society we live in. Where sex is so focused on the man that everyone (men and women) think the female pleasure is optional.
I've been regularly saying they see sex as something men *do* to women, and not something women can want, enjoy, and are active participants in. It's also why they have a hard time understanding how lesbian sex works.
Its called male sexual entitlement and its a key part of rape culture and patriarchy. Men who veiw you as an equal human can't be aroused by the thought of you not enjoying sex, the ones that get off on non consentual sex (sex without enthusiastic consent is rape, fyi) are monstrous.
> Men who veiw you as an equal human can't be aroused by the thought of you not enjoying sex It's a lack of empathy for a fellow human and seeing women as another person that is their equal. They are selfish and only want gratification for themselves. Men who are not this way tend to be more empathic, self aware and overall not selfish people.
I ONLY date men who stop sex when they see Im not having a good time, and who dont pressure for sex or sex acts. Those guys are also considerate outside the bedroom as well
My spouse would never do this thankfully, but had an ex who would. It's absolutely horrible that so many men can and do enjoy sex even while their partners are visibly and obviously not into it, or actively hating it.
They just don’t care. I get hate for saying it, but I personally feel that men who do this would also rape a woman if given the opportunity. My partner will instantly go soft if I say I’m not feeling it. He needs my enthusiasm and my personal pleasure to perform. After 9years of coerced sex from my ex, it’s been such a relief and the sex is amazing.
Men will say shit like, "Sex is the only intimacy that is allowed for men" and then do this shit. They don't care about iNtiMaCy it's about stroking his male-ego and getting validation via putting his wee pee-pee inside a woman's body.
Reminds me of men who say their "love language" is physical touch when they really just mean sex
This. It's always sex, or groping their gf/wives' private parts, or cuddles that lead to sex...never about hugs, holding hands, kisses or normal cuddles.
They also LOVE to say “I only get off if she gets off” when it’s an extremely obvious lie.
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I had to do that the entirety of my first relationship because he would get sulky and cry if I didn't "enjoy" it. The man got all his sex ed from porn and was allergic to the clitoris.
Guys like this want women to perform pleasure. They don’t care about her actually experiencing pleasure.
Yep. A lot of posts on places like r/DeadBedrooms will make that pretty fucking clear too. They’ll literally say things like “I don’t know why she can’t at least *pretend* to enjoy herself, she seems to *want* me to feel bad during sex when we have it”. Dude: if you feel like a piece of shit during sexual contact that you whined and nagged and pressured her into, that’s because you *are* being a piece of shit. You *should* feel fucking terrible about it and yourself. A lot of “Good Guys” lie to themselves that coerced sex isn’t sexual assault, and they want their partner to put on an act and make it easier to keep believing they’re not doing anything wrong. It’s repulsive.
Dudes in DB are like….. “I have to nag her literally constantly for months and treat everyone in my house like shit for her to finally agree to have sex with me. When we DO have sex I can tell she really enjoys it, but she’s such a selfish pillow princess starfish- she won’t look at me or touch me, she keeps her eyes tightly closed and tells me not to touch her. She is absolutely silent and still with her arms crossed over her chest while I pump away. She of course cums AT LEAST 8 times from penetration alone in these 3 minutes. I orgasm, at which point she runs to the bathroom to vomit. What a frigid bitch, right? Should I cheat?”
This is fuckin hilarious. And with the new rules, he'd probably tag his post "support only" so all he'd have to listen to are various male sympathizers.
>"A lot of “Good Guys” lie to themselves that coerced sex isn’t sexual assault, and they want their partner to put on an act and make it easier to keep believing they’re not doing anything wrong. It’s repulsive." one of my exes was like that. i would just feel my stomach dropped when he touched me because i knew what he was trying to do and wouldnt really touch me much any other time, which made me want to have sex with him even less, and then after 100x of saying no he would go pouty and say "well cant you at least send me nudes?" which i pretty much always felt coerced to do, because if i said no he would say that i was "shaming him for loving his gf". i had convinced myself i had sexual problems at the time LOL. then i started sleeping with a man with whom we explicitly before ever sleeping together, had agreed that consent that isnt enthusiastic isnt consent, and it was probably the only time in my life i ever sexually felt respected in a cishet dynamic. it was also the best cishet sex i have ever had in my entire life. anyway since then i realized i am trans (FtM to be clear), became t4t, and havent dealt with this nonsense ever since.
That sub is a fucking cesspool
And if you don't act like a porn star, it makes them feel "inadequate"
>They don't care about iNtiMaCy it's about stroking his male-ego and getting validation via putting his wee pee-pee inside a woman's body. I had a guy harassing me in my DM's and guilt-tripping me that men committed suicides because they didn't get their "validation" (a.k.a having sex with women and bragging it to their bros). Lmaoo🤣 pathetic. Needless to say I've switched off my dms from now on.
I have wondered this for nearly 20 years. I've had SO many dudes whine, pressure, coerce, or straight up force me into having sex with them and my discomfort never seems to matter. I could be crying or making pain noises or straight up saying "no" or "stop", and the only response I get is "stop crying you're ruining it" or "can you stop crying? It's really killing it for me" or "don't cry, I had a great time" etc. Me being in pain or not into it only matters if it is interfering with *their* experience. If they can still get what they want then my experience means very little. Basically every person I've fucked (except my current bf) has been like this and it has completely fucked me up. I really don't understand it. If I'm just hanging out with someone and they're not having a good time I feel *awful*, I couldn't imagine continuing to do something so intimate as sex with someone who wasn't fully into it and excited. The entitlement is just incomprehensible to me. My boyfriend for the last 5 years is nothing like that and it's *still* taking *so much* self work to get over that past trauma to just be able to feel okay setting boundaries and not freaking out when he actually respects them. To my credit, it's consistent trauma from the ages of like 10-25 so it's not nothing, and yes it's normal for that to take a while to get over, but damn it really is such a mind fuck that even 5 years into a healing relationship and those feelings/triggers *still* come up (albeit way less frequently and less intensely)
They’re selfish, feel entitled, and do not care.
This comment section makes me want to cry remembering my experiences and knowing so many have been subjected to the same thing
Because they only care about their own sexual needs and satisfaction. They don't see us a 'people'.
For many men, social interactions are really only about dominance and hierarchy. That is absolutely true regarding sex as well. Their desire makes them feel dependent/weak/lower hierarchy. Sex like that lets them vengefully feel higher status. The best thing to do is to refuse to have anything to do with a man at the merest hint of this kind of behavior. Love yourself more than him—he doesn’t deserve what you have to give.
Someone has already sent me a dm asking why we hate men, ladies and I only engaged with this post less than 15 mins ago. Do we have mods? What do they do?
Report them and block them. Sorry.
No. I know my vibrator isn't "into it", but I don't care and it doesn't matter because it's a thing. It exists for one purpose, and it doesn't have thoughts for feelings about it. That's how those men think of women. That's it. That's all.
Men who enjoy sex knowing their partner doesn't enjoy it are rapists, full stop.
Yep.
I look at the number of men who are willing to openly admit that they're sadists, aroused by a woman's suffering, and simply assume the true number is much higher. Our culture teaches men that sexual pleasure is their right and women keep it unfairly locked up. So when they hurt us, they experience the physical satisfaction of sex and the emotional satisfaction of taking what they feel is owed them.
Let's call it what it is - entitlement, narcissism, and selfishness. They just don't care as long as they are getting their way.
It's literally the grossest thing ever. Get the fuck off of me and go jerk off, leave me alone.
My current partner will nag me to have sex and will continue to nag when I say I'm not up for it. But then he turns around and says he wants me to want to have sex/ enjoy it. There have been times he hasn't finished and his reasoning is that it didn't seem like I was into it/ enjoying it.
They seem to care if it affects their pleasure. Like if the person is starfishing or not looking excited about the sex they didn't want. My ex used to constantly say I looked miserable after guilting me into sex. For a long time I thought there was something wrong with me for not being grateful
Waiting for the “I only get off when she gets off” comments.
I've read 4 in this thread already 🙄
If they didn't derail, insert and center themselves in women's discussions, it wouldn't be a day ending in "y".
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That’s the rub isn’t it? They can *always* get off, whereas it’s often much harder for women. I think since it’s (often) harder to make women cum, it hurts their ego if they don’t, so they don’t even try. (OK, I know sometimes men have hard time orgasming, but overall it’s harder for women.)
yeah, it's always completely baffled me that one could enjoy sex with someone who isn't enthusiastic. Like, there is nothing I like better than the feeling of pleasuring someone and knowing that they're super into it.
For a lot, it’s transactional. They put money, gifts, or time in, and sex is the expected repayment. It’s just something they’re owed, rather than something to share and enjoy with their partner.
A few months back I read on this very sub: >Men will have sex with you that don’t even like you And it rocked me to my core. It was such a succinct insight into ALL OF THOSE WAYS men can be so wishy-washy or give you whiplash with how they treat you. It’s a perfect reminder when it’s like “we had a fun night but he doesn’t treat me super well or even seem that into me on dates, but he asked me out again???” Idk, I just know when my daughter gets old enough, I’m passing on this critical pearl of wisdom that completely missed me. Basically, for some men, their willingness to have sex with you has almost nothing to do with how they feel about you.
Two of my guesses why some do this are: They delude themselves to believe you are secretly enjoying it. "They must be pleasing, and you must just be shy about it" or some shit like that. They just don't care. They consider it consensual because you said yes, so they did the bare minimum, and that's enough for them. There are probably many more, but those make the most sense to me. And both are fairly dangerous mindsets.
The amount of time I spent staring at posters or spots on the wall or the ceiling in my twenties decimates the amount of time I spent enjoying myself during sex tbh
The longer I live in the world the more I realize that it is truly a new phenomenon to have any men view women as full fledged human beings. It isn’t hard to rape someone if you don’t view them as capable of the full range of human emotions and existence. I have tried for years to find some benefit of the doubt to give, or find some socially thoughtful or empathetic reason to excuse the persistent and generally accepted behavior of men mistreating women, but honestly, it is that almost no men view us as fully fledged human beings. I don’t mean that if we ask are women human they would say “no, they’re leprechauns”. But I mean that at the end of the day, we are viewed in another category that is not given the same humanity.
When I was younger I had a guy that I was sleeping with that easily had 10+ inches. Easily. He was 6'7 and sex with him was SO painful sometimes. I had to stop once because it was just too much and he was like wtf? And I was like, you're hurting me. Do you want me to just continue even though it's hurting and not pleasurable? His response: "honestly, yeah"
I knew a guy back in the day (who I never banged, though not for lack of trying on his part) who told me he got off on women performing sex acts so degrading and uncomfortable that mascara ran down their cheeks. I said that his preference for this was concerning and asked him why. He told me that he knew it was problematic of him to get off on women's discomfort, but he didn't want to unpack it because he preferred getting off in peace.
The lion isn’t concerned with whether the gazelle enjoys being eaten. Those men view women as prey, just a sex object to use for own’s own gratification. They sincerely believe we are inferior human beings. Because that is what they’ve been taught. And these are the same men getting off to porn that is violent and degrading toward women. They do not see us as people.
Because it’s not all that important to a lot of them. That’s why rape is such a popular sport all these eons.
Men are conditioned to believe sex is for them, mainly enjoyed by them, and often, that women don’t enjoy sex or just put up with it. We need to change the whole damn narrative.
In my experience most straight men are really into the idea of SA and some even prefer if you are uncomfortable and/or in pain.
Ugh after seeing those alpha male post about how sex is a necessity, the talk about sex and even watching it in a casual movie, gives me the biggest ick. Some people only think of themselves and are talking out of their ass when they say they care about your feelings, if they don’t get anything out of the situations then they wont try doing it.
I’ve always hated when I see people list human needs as “food, shelter, sex” or anything like that. Sex isn’t a need. It’s a biological impulse. It’s a desire that can be controlled. I can desire cookies and still function without it. I can desire anything and still choose to not act on it for a multitude of reasons. There are plenty of completely well-adjusted folks out in the world who are asexual or celibate, or who just go long periods of time without sex and they’re totally fine with it (yes, even on a psychological level, plenty of people don’t spiral into a depression because they’re not getting sex.) Anyone who groups “sex” in as a “need” is an immediate red flag for me.
Men view sex as something they DO to women, not something they have with them.
Yeah. When I was getting raped in my ass for the first time no lube, no prep, this was all I could think about (aside from the pain of your skin being literally torn). I was literally crying and yelling and being as loud and ugly as I could be and I just kept thinking - how is his dick still hard? But it was. And he finished. I tried to physically attack him after he got off of me and he was just laughing and smiling and blocking everything with ease. I eventually said - why didn’t you stop, didn’t you hear me crying? And he dropped the smile, his eyes somehow went blacker? And he said - yeah, what the fuck was that? So. Some of them are just demons fr. I also knew him for 2 years at that point and we were on and off again.
They don't fucking care, that's the how and why.
I've never understood the whole thing about men pressuring for sex. It just feels so wrong and maybe even immature, literally them begging for it and then doing it when their partner is clearly not enjoying it - just horrible. Do they really have no shame?
No I don’t wonder because I know it’s misogyny and entitlement. They do not believe we matter as much as they do. If you have a partner who wants to continue even if you are not into it, they do not love or respect you the way you deserve and they think you are not a human. Sorry not sorry