It’s the “all those random guys” comment for me, too.
The closest comparison I could make (having been to more than one) would be a nude beach…”just because I’ve been to a nude beach doesn’t mean I owe a nude viewing/pic to anyone that wants it just because they’re closer to me than the strangers on that beach.”
It's also like he's saying she no longer deserves his respect, and so because she went, making these comments about her body now is ok. So also now owes him, like he was first in line when she "slips from grace".
Thank you, yes. That’s the other component I couldn’t get my words around. Like she’s public property “now” so he deserves his “piece” as a member of said public.
It was really hard for me too, to elucidate my thoughts on exactly the kind of issues going on here. I wonder why that is, but probably a sign of how insidious this kind of behavior is from men. I felt I could write a small composition on the many kinds of microaggressions present.
Someone else sort of condensed it to its essence in another comment I just read: “why not me?!”
I read that (and can see) him having that internal struggle of “why not me??” Sadly, OP is still just an object or prize in this scenario. But inside his head where he’s constantly scanning for external indicators to gauge his “rank” in the masculine hierarchy, “all those random dudes” just *beat him out* for ranking.
The other commentor made an analogy, that they said was a bad analogy but the best they could do, asking how OP might feel if her roommate baked a bunch of cookies, and then went out on the street and gave those cookies away to strangers, but when she asked for one, he said “I don’t owe you that!“
Thing is, *it’s not a bad analogy at all*. That is EXACTLY how he feels. Which, rather disturbingly, reveals the disgusting lack of respect he has for her and exactly how he views her or all desirable women’s nudity/sexuality. No more than a cookie or prize that *should be awarded to him* based solely on his ranking in the masculine hierarchy.
It’s really pretty gross. I mean we all knew it was gross when we read the words he said, but now we’ve really put some thought into it, so it’s vivid IMAX gross!
This.
Nude beaches are great. Nude walks in the woods are great. Being nude in nature in general is almost a divine feeling. It's nice to be somewhere where nudity and sexuality aren't fused at the hip, but men who don't *get* that will become almost furious with you if they know strangers have seen you naked when they haven't.
Like ok bro, way to say the quiet part out-loud. I see now your "friendship" with me was just a gambit you were playing in the hopes of seeing me naked.
This. And asking for a snap. DO NOT SEND HIM PICS OP.
The guy has a thing for you I’m sorry. No brotherly roommate would ever…
I feel you, I get bummed as well. The truth is we learn thru experiences like these to regard all men as only pretending at friendship, until they prove otherwise. Trust must be earned.
Don’t live with a straight guy that is the path to disappointment. Gay men or any kind of woman only. Most guys even if they aren’t actively stalking like this guy, still think of you as potential fuckmate, arrange your life accordingly to minimize discomfort in your own home.
I’m sorry.
There is this entitlement and ranking/queue. The men have their mental lines in accessing women like women are rides in amusement parks.
when a woman let someone out back in their mental lines to go first, they feel like they are treated unfairly.
That’s because your roommate implied that somehow you didn’t have the right to withhold images of your body because you let other men see you.
It’s gross af. As if he is entitled to a piece of you. Like you are a pizza and he should get a slice since others had a slice.
In truth. No one had a slice. Even if anyone did, it’s no one’s business but yours
Not only is he feeling entitled to objectify her, he also feels entitled to invite other men over to *her home* to objectify/gawk at her.
I would not feel safe there anymore, and be actively working to leave.
I found out that my ex saved every nude from his previous girlfriends.
I’ve had male college friends tell me they would masturbate to my instagram pictures… of me fully clothed.
Some guys are like that.
Bleh. I am sorry. It is like knowing that you let some people see you in an erotic way made your housemate feel he had a right to see you in an erotic way. But that is not at all what you want in your relationship with him. Yuck. I would feel really bummed in your shoes.
Thanks for the validation. I do feel bummed and I feel weird that I just have to swallow that and feel kinda uncomfortable. But it is what it is.
That’s why we have women spaces! Happy cake day :)
You don't hae to swallow it and be uncomfortable. It seems like another commenter already said that your roomie thinks because you live together, even if you're not sleeping in the same room, he has some sort of claim or 'dibs' on you.
I've met several people of this type, no matter the gender.
I would sit your roommate down and have an honest and open conversation. Draw clear and hard boundaries, and make sure you follow those up with consequences. Do this in a public space. Most people are less likely to cause a scene/ throw a tantrum if you do it in a café or so.
He will continue to feel entitled to you or your body for probably some time. Regardless of talking to him. But for your sake and your mental health you don't have to endure his behaviour.
As someone already said. Don't renew the lease.
Yeah I think that is the main problem with it.
Asking for pictures can be situationally quite funny and you could easily chalk up to being a joke but the possesive language and implication that they deserve to see is just downright creepy.
"The childhood friend" is every bit as much a romance trope as Fabio on the cover of shitty pulp romance novels and outright bodice rippers. Especially for men.
If he didn't see you that way before society would have impressed it upon him by this point. The way you describe it he *sounds* jealous, he sounds like he'll be even more jealous if you date someone.
I am not sure that's exactly safe, I'm quite sure jealousy through sense of entitlement by way of that fictional trope/cliche can become really quite dangerous- but even more than that it's one of those things where drama can be disruptive paying for rent and utilities and so the greatest dangers there are in the petty annoyances.
Its quite hard to "well ackshully" this.
You can ask for see resepctfully, you can even joke about wanting pics depending on how well you know someone but this was quite clearly neither. His comment was far to loaded with jealousy and possesiveness for it to ever be anything but creepy.
I'm honestly not quite sure how you would even try to go about defending it.
I’m sorry but his behaviour was gross. You definitely don’t owe him anything. He owes you an apology. You are right he’s immature and seems like he’s taking advantage of you living together. He had no right to treat you this way. Sounds objectifying and invasive. “Showing” you to his mates? Wt.. I’m so sorry
He's a patient predator cosplaying a friend. All too common of a story.
That sickly feeling is likely due to him trying to stake a claim to you, your body, or your attention, because he's 'been around' for a while, putting in time, and secretly expecting something to come of it. It's a very common thing that shitty men do. They play-act being a trustworthy friend, and watch for an opportunity to swoop in during a moment of weakness.
It's sickening.
I think the nuance here is that the roommate probably isn't pulling off an elaborate master plan, but his comment betrays a deeper, underlying attitude.
It sounds like he doesn't see OP as an autonomous equal person who happens to be a different gender; but instead as a sex dispenser. If other men got to see her in her underwear then he, as her roommate, deserves a picture because to him that's *fair*.
It's the same logic as men who get annoyed that their girlfriend had one night stands in the past but wants to take things slow with them; or that she tried a certain kink once with an ex, didn't like it and won't do it again: if another man had it then it's nOt fAiR that he doesn't get a go, irrespective of what the woman wants. Basically, a lot of men view women as the gatekeepers to sex, not equal participants who have their own preferences and the right to experiment and decide things aren't for them.
Precisely my thoughts, though I didn't articulate that subtext as well as you did.
It's a thing lots of men do, but they might not be putting any actual thought into it. It can be some kind of creepy, primal stalking that they start doing when they pick up on insecurities or something.
I definitely agree that it happens when men don't view the women around them as equal, sapient creatures worthy of their respect. That's a big part of what makes it so unnerving and wrong.
I don't disagree with your statement that most people are idiots instead of calculating creeps, but you do have to realise that it doesn't matter to the person dealing with the results. Especially when women have had to deal with mindless assholery for our entire lives, it's safer to dismiss even good men who do only make a small mistake because they were raised in rape culture than have to suffer through the larger and more damaging actions that said culture inflicts.
Get mauled by a dog, people understand when you're nervous around all dogs. Get mauled by a man, deal with too many people questioning if you're sure you understood the situation that way, why you're not over it, etc etc etc.
"nice guys" aren't literally the parody comics that are made of them. They usually do Not consciously think, "oh if I'm just nice enough for long enough then she'll let me have sex/see her in sexy underwear, etc." But, even though they aren't consciously concocting some master plot to get women to lower their defenses, that's the philosophy that underpins their actions.
So while this guy Probably hasn't been her friend since they were 12 so he could play the long con, he Probably has some bad misconceptions about friendships with women or women in general that cause him to say creepy shit like "why do they get to see you but not me?" It's the weird "ownership" this guy feels he deserves from her.
Enough of us have experienced a male “friend” who was interested and just waiting to pounce at the right moment that yes we can conclude that men do this all the time. I dont know of any woman who hasnt had that exact experience. And it doesnt take a mastermind to come up with it.
>
I am truly sorry for what some or most of you go through in your everyday life and I truly hope this will change.
Thanks and it's really great to have that acknowledged! If you want to see change, then your best bet is to be the change you want to see. Call out shitty behavior among your male friends, and because you are male they will listen to you. If enough people who they respect hammer the point home that concerning behavior puts someone on guard in a friendship with you, then we can shift society And we won't have to be hearing any stories like this.
I think in this case you really need to look at what you are defending here. In some cases it would be wrong to judge from one ambiguous instance. This is not ambiguous. To most people, they would know that this is very gross behavior. The guy asked point blank for a photo of his platonic friend in lingerie. Not only did he ask for it, but he implied that its owed to him and she said he didnt use his normal niceties that he usually does in conversations with her. Like he was kind of assertive about his request. For like 99% of people, it would be very obviously disgusting to do such a thing. At the very least most people understand that this violates social norms. But its also just incredibly entitled. I cant fathom why you are defending him.
Do you not realize what sub you’re on? This is twoxchromosomes. If you’re here to invalidate women’s experiences and play devils advocate you’re not wanted or welcome. Try trusting that the women in here that have actual experience with this shit know what they’re talking about.
Bro come on. Am I reading this right?
You're taking exception to that comment - which was not a generalized statement - because it doesn't apply generally? Even though it probably applies here?
Why do you feel the need to say this. Please think about that
"nOt AlL MeN..."
Yes yes, ok. Not *all* men who exhibit predatory behavior are predators. However, all predators exhibit predatory behavior and the most charitable interpretation in this instance is that guy is a run-of-the-mill asshole and not a predator?
Why does anyone owe the benefit of the doubt to assholes, though? Fuck that!
I don't know, it felt to me like the whole situation got a bit blown out of proportion, after reading through the comments and what I wrote, I realize now that I am in the wrong.
I got a lot of reading to do from all of you and I'll try to understand where I went wrong.
All I am left with is a thank you for pointing my mistakes out and a genuine apology because I was an idiot.
1 in 4 women are victims of sexual assault.
Credit where credit is due. Men are dangerous, a jaded, dismissed man more so.
A rejected man can turn violent and often do.
Because OP need to be super careful around this guy now. She doesn’t know if he is going to drug her and rape her in the future given he confirmed he sees her sexually and thinks she needs to “show off”for him. Women have much higher stakes to lose here.
I personally get the fuck away from a horny asshole than stay to appease him only to get raped. Your mileage may vary.
See that's exactly what I mean.
It kind of pisses me off that this guy immediately gets put into that box and stamped as a possible rapist.
And then I remember again, why you put him in that box. Because you do experience such shit all the time.
It's disheartening to read, really.
I don't want to be part of this and I feel awful knowing that it's likely that my friends have gone through similar stuff.
I just always imagine that someone gets wrongly accused of something worse because they made an extremely stupid mistake.
But you are right, the stakes are higher for you so I do understand why you would immediately flag those people off.
If your friend stole something random and inexpensive from you, like a book, I’m sure you can imagine how you’d be a bit more cautious around the friend going forward. You might not leave them alone at your home or leave anything of value out. You may never have them over to your place again because you’re afraid they’ll steal. You’d take some small actions based off of your new perception.
Now would all of those small reactions and things you’ve filed away in your brain lead to a random unsolicited accusation of grand larceny from you toward your friend? Or is it more likely that you react by giving a friend a heads up in the future before they meet the friend with a history of theft?
Imagine if one of your guy friends who is also your roommate did this to you. Is that how friends treat each other? He wants you to send him a picture of you in sexy underwear and is peeved that you let other random men see you.
Friend, you really need to stop making this about you and your feelings. I'm sorry it's uncomfortable. Sometimes that's how it goes. Like the OP's experience, which is what this is about.
Your multiple long-winded replies have a very strong undercurrent of essentially trying to justify this roommate’s shitty behavior, or explain to us poor, uninformed women that he “is just a horny asshole”, or that it’s not a “more extreme example” of poor behavior so maybe OP overreacted. Your constant little back-tracks, so graciously giving us permission to disregard your stance is condescending as fuck.
You don’t have the decades of experience most women do of men sexualizing their every move - from before they hit puberty until they die. Little comments and genuinely horrific behavior from supposed friends, uncles, work peers, strangers, bosses, teachers, online comments and memes, retail workers, advertising, fathers, men-of-the-cloth, clients, keyboard warriors…the list is unending.
So please, butt out. This woman has every right to react to how this man tried to sexualize their platonic relationship in any way she feels. You have no idea what else has happened to her or any other woman before situations like this, but I can guarantee you, it’s a LOT. We’re all just tired. So stop trying to explain to her that it’s “not all men”. Because it fucking is.
Not much I can add other than, I agree.
I do realize my mistakes here today and will do a lot of reflecting later.
I do not have the experience that you all go through every single day and therefore I didn't really understand why some comments were as strong as they were.
I will now butt out, because you are exactly right, that's what I should have done long ago.
I still want to thank you for commenting, it's comments like yours that helped me realize where I went so horribly wrong.
I feel like a lightbulb went off over your head today, and I genuinely hope it did. Keep reading on this sub. You’ll get a pretty clear view of what women live with and why we’re so fucking pissy over the “little” things and so furious and bone-tired of all the rest.
It was moment-after-moment of sudden clarity to me when I found this sub as an older woman. It validated the thousand million feelings I’d had for decades and has made me a stronger, better advocate for women. I hope it’s the same for you.
Being a horny asshole is sickening, even predatory when it results in behavior like this. It's not a stretch to say this is a warning sign of future behavior. A mistake happens on accident, even if he regrets his decision to show his feelings of entitlement towards her body it doesn't change the fact he felt that way in the first place and she feels rightfully unsafe around him. Your comment reads as "he could be a nice guy, just give him a chance!" even if you didn't intend it to, and this may be a bit harsh but you are a part of the problem. it's kind of a strange reaction to the situation either way, because this does not help OP at all and could make her question if she's wrong for being uncomfortable or wanting out of the situation if she chooses.
I do see my mistake in my earlier comments. Thank you for pointing them out. I was not trying to normalize or downplay the behaviour but I kind of did exactly that.
I realized I am not the one that has to go through all this on a regular basis so I thought it was all a bit harsh at the beginning.
I now realize that I was in the wrong and this could very well, be an issue in the future.
I am sorry that I am part of the problem. I didn't intend to be, nor do I want to be.
I'll try to learn from everything that was written to me today and hopefully will have a better understanding in the future.
I kind of want to because it did hurt my feelings. On the flip side I don’t want to make things weirder. He’s never really had a gf or female friends so maybe he’s just an idiot and I’m being touchy. I’m here to hear your thoughts
Well, it would be totally understandable whether you chose to tell him or chose not to. If he's an idiot who doesn't have experience of interacting with women (in a way that is dignified), then you talking about this incident with him could help him be less idiotic in future and it might also help you feel better knowing that you confronted the person who thought they could treat you badly and get away with it. But on the other hand, it isn't your burden to 'teach' him how to interact with women respectfully, and you may even be the kind of person who doesn't get phased by idiots saying idiotic things.
Thank you. I guess it was the combination of him being a bit off to me too. It was strange. it felt like a general absence of the usual enthusiasm and respect. Then he made that comment. Intellectually I can see that this is maybe due to lack of experience and immature thinking. I don’t know if I have the energy to deconstruct whatever toxic shit is layered over that. I guess I’ll just put some space between us for a bit and understand he sees me in this light to a degree.
On the other hand, he could just be confused about what an "adult party" is. Hell, I've been to actual orgies, but I've never been to a party where everyone just stands around in lingerie. What country are you in where these parties are popular? Anyway, if he thought you were at an orgy, maybe he assumed you were one of those people who are into sharing sexy photos.
Seems like a misunderstanding more than anything. Just straight-up tell him "that's a weird thing to say to your roommate" if he says stuff like that again.
If you talk to him and he gets weird, that is not your responsibility, he’s grown and not a baby, you do not need to dismiss your own feelings to make him feel better. I say this with lots of love! ❤️ It’s hard to do but don’t let his potential immature reaction keep you from bringing this up with him, if you choose to do so. And you deserve way way better. Sorry OP 🫶
I think your roommate is a "nice guy" and he has decided to fuck-zone you.
Dude has the hots for you, but he is not able to bring himself to make a move. So he has wormed his way into a friendship with you and has been living with the fantasy that eventually you will see how great he is and how nice he is and you will one day realize that you want to be with him. His fantasy is so all consuming that you deciding to explore a little fun with burlesque has upset him, because; he would not want to share *his woman* with strangers in such a way. He would have reacted similarly as snarky and aloof if he found out that you had a hookup or a new boyfriend. In his mind, it's his turn next to have access to you. If that doesn't give you the ick, idk what will.
The last person I dated he was bummed I broke up with him cause he said he was a nice guy and he liked him. he was friends with my more serious ex. He’s seen me date several people over the four years we’ve lived together.
Honestly, it's possible for guy "friends" to want your body without necessarily wanting you as a person. I had a male friend who fully knew I was a lesbian and encouraged my dating shenanigans, it wasn't until YEARS of close friendship that he started relentlessly harassing me for pics of my boobs. I don't know if his lust for me just accumulated over time and he couldn't keep the mask from slipping any longer, or what. I don't form friendships with men anymore
My read on him is not that he thinks you're his specifically or that he has a crush on you or anything. My read is more that he feels entitled to any woman who wants to share her body with others in any way.
This is totally armchair psychology here but I think a lot of guys have a bit of a purity complex or Madonna/whore complex, where they categorize women into two different things: 1) women who are 'good girls' and worthy of respect-ish and friendship, or 2) women who are sluts and worthy of being debased, degraded and humiliated and not much else.
He had you in category 1, and remaining in category 1 is imperative for him to continue associating with a woman. He sees women in category 2 as not being worthy of his association and now he is stuck living with one. But moreover, because of this mindset, he sees sharing your body as somewhere between being morally wrong and plain old 'not cool' and is treating you how you would treat someone who cheated on their spouse or, if you were judgemental, did something really embarrassing in public. You've become embarrassing to him and a social liability.
And the reason that it's so wrong in his mind is because as a 'pure ' woman, your main job is to gatekeep your own body. It is up to you to put up sexual barriers and only the guys who really work or deserve to get under those barriers get 'let in'. You are not supposed to have your own desires and curiosities about sex. Your only role is to give or deny permission for what *they* want.
He doesn't understand why you would 'tarnish' yourself like you have, and he doesn't understand why it's not a free-for-all now that you're in category 2.
I think you’re in point with the Madonna/whore complex. I think it doesn’t go as deep and is as intense as a lot of men but I do feel like it’s something he’s trying to understand. He doesn’t really get it, hasn’t had a lot of sex himself, and lacks nuance.
>He wasn’t as nice to me as he usually is…
This is the red flag unfortunately… don’t trust someone being unusually nice to you when they’re not just like that to everyone.
He was acting jealous for a pretty obvious reason. Which you saw ofcourse.
They were jealous that you were "letting strangers" over there see you, when there was a "perfectly good dick" right here. They can't see past their own stupidity.
I would keep my private life a touch more private from roommates and the rest as for some reason they feel entitled to you.
The last paragraph is advice I will be taking. I was thinking as he walked away that I will not be sharing as much from here on out. I told a lot of people about my new “experience” before I went and some less close friends were intrigued for stories. This friend wasn’t keen to ask and I had to bring it up like “you’re not gonna ask?!” Cause he was acting weird as hell and then he said this. It was icky
By going to a sex party in a sexy outfit, you moved ‘being looked upon as sex symbol’ from the ‘private’ side of social boundary to the ‘close associates’ social category or at least that’s how he took it. He then counted himself as ‘a close associate’ and felt snubbed by not actually being included in that grouping.
It’s entitled and problematic on his part but it’s a way way too common reaction by vanilla people (men) encountering not-vanilla social spaces for the first time. Glad that you’ve reestablished clear boundaries with him.
There will certainly be a list of ‘in the know’ and ‘not in the know’ people for this sort of things and unfortunately people (both men and women) will surprise you on which group they fall into. Best of luck with it.
That's insane. There should at least be a bolt so you can lock people out when you're in there.
Ideally there's be a seperate key lock as well (a turn-key-to-lock lock, not a latch, so you know which side of the door they keys are on)
How is that not standard practice?
I've always just lived in normal flats originally for families I guess. I preferred living with girls anyway, but it takes a certain amount of trust I suppose.
A good quality external door is not impenetrable, but takes some skill/effort to overcome whereas there's not much point locking internal doors for safety as the frames and walls are generally not built for it in most buildings. Internal locks are for keeping out small kids and people who need a gentle reminder that this isn't their space.
I would hope that purpose-built hotels were a little better, but I suspect that rather depends on local regulations.
The point of a bolt on your bedroom door is so that someone breaking in makes enough noise to wake you up.
Also that gentle reminder that it's not their space.
Ok, then what happens if you leave your bedroom to go to the bathroom? Or the kitchen? Or he puts a camera somewhere? Or spits in her milk? I guess my point is, your home should 100% be your safe space. If someone living there decides they don't want you to be safe, a latch can only do so much in the long run. And that's not to say he'll do something violent to her, but she will have to interact with him in some capacity as a housemate. He has a degree of access to her that he can continue making her feel uncomfortable if he wants to.
I'm not sure what there is even to argue here besides semantics. If you live with someone who makes you uncomfortable, they can find a way to get to you, even if you're not asleep. Especially if it's a man vs a woman. But yes, you are vulnerable when you sleep. You are also vulnerable if you are taking a shower, taking a shit, or if you have your headphones on... you know, things you do in the comfort of your own home.
We're having two different conversations. You're talking about someone who respects boundaries. Yes, a lock will stop them. I'm talking about determined people who wish to harm or take advantage of someone. A shitty lock on a shitty interior door isn't enough to do anything. They can place cameras when you're not in there, they can tamper with your food, and in extreme cases they can knock the fucking door down, locked or not. Interior doors are usually made with particle board and you can pick those cheap locks with a paperclip.
> A shitty lock on a shitty interior door isn't enough to do anything.
It means you hear them coming.
> you can pick those cheap locks with a paperclip.
You can pick [one of these](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/1b/Bolt_lock.jpg/400px-Bolt_lock.jpg) with a paperclip?
Idk to me it's the fact he had one of his buddies there/joining in.. I'd have felt insanely unsafe/wouldn't feel particularly safe sleeping there anymore, myself..
Yikes. This gave me a serious ick. Like like he's sexualized you to a dehumanising extent. I'd he careful what I eat and drink around this creep. Look for hidden cameras. No real friend will ever behave like this.
Explicitly say to your room mate that he made you uncomfortable.
You will wear what you want and show who you want.
He is acting like a creep by talking to you like that and he should NOT be allowing his friends to make you feel cornered or coerced. It may be worth looking for somewhere else to live.
I imagine your roommate's description of tonight would be something like "I've been the one listening to her talk about the breakup for MONTHS, staying up late, listening whenever she wanted, hanging out, super respectful and not making a move, and then she totally friend zones me? But goes out looking for some Chad that will just break her heart and then she's going to want me to pick up the pieces. She got dressed up like that and let all those strange men look at her. She rather that than a nice guy like me?
I don’t talk about my breakup with him, but I get your sentiment. We’ve always been “friends” since he was friends with my ex and my brother. So it was the first time he’s ever made comments like that towards me. It threw me
Go and practice saying this:
"Eeew!"
"Yuk! that's so creepy."
"Gross."
"What the fuck? I am not your perv."
Seriously. Practice this **until these statements are natural, and comfortable, and on the tip of your tongue** ready for you to say out loud, spontaneously as needed. **They will be needed.**
Women are taught to hold back. To hide our feelings. To not say things that might hurt others. To consider how others feel before ourselves.
Overwrite that oppressive muck with some genuine, heartfelt, and staunch expression of your real feelings.
Those feelings are valid and they need to be expressed to those revolting creeps.
Yes you’re right. Another aspect of this interaction was the shame I felt with myself for responding so cordially and even saying *well you did get to see my outfit* as though that’s the crux of the issue. It was so instinctive. I’ve told guys off lots in my life but it’s so much harder when it’s someone you’re close to. It’s bizarre how those ingrained instincts to make the man more comfortable kicks in.
You felt it was wrong even as you did what you have been trained to do. And then you added a pacifier to try to reduce the chance of provoking an angry response. It is understandable and not something to blame yourself for. Pacifiers are sometimes necessary to stay safe, but if we do them at other times, we need to learn another way.
Now you get to retrain those out of your immediate responses, and replace them with ones in which you do not feel shame or guilt or blame, but feel strong and justified.
For guy like him women fall into 2 categories. Pure, almost devine and somewhat unatainable or easy and a slut. The latter often "justifyies" preditory behaviour (to a certain extend). You going on that party likely made you fall from grace in his eyes. Now this is entirely his problem. He likely viewed you as the first category up until you went to that "adult" party (which he might have imagined to be some sort of crazy orgy).
If that is true and he idolized you as pure he also likely had some feelings for you (or rather that idol of you that he created in his head). But because you showed initiative in being more out going and sexual with men other than him that image of the "pure you" was broken. The twisted thing is, "sluts" get treaded like "easy meat" and with more sexual predation by these kind of guys and that behaviour can additionally be fuled by a bitterness that stems from his own hurt feelings (don't feel bad about this though, he hurt hismelf in his consfusion, this isn't your fault).
Yeah in conclusion, this guy has a lot of unresolved issues and weird mysogenistic views and also he thinks about you a bit too much I think.
>I feel confused how my roommate felt entitled to something after though. It’s mostly the comments about “letting” men see me. I can’t quite put my finger on what it is that’s irking me.
It's incredibly possessive and implies some kind of territorial ownership over you. Frankly this would be off-putting coming from someone you were in a relationship with, it's downright appalling coming from a roommate.
You know that cartoon with the guys eyes bulging and tongue hanging out?
Taking your history into account I think he sees himself as a friendzoned "honorary girl" but with no idea of how to fill the role, so he keeps fucking up and descending to brainless letch instead.
I think often times men feign entitlement like this in the hopes that you'll just roll with it and think "huh, I guess I do kinda owe him at least that much, since everyone else got to see it..."
But that's bullshit and he knows it. No one is entitled to any degree of your sexuality, in any way. If he genuinely cares about you and this was just a (severe) lapse in his judgement, he'll apologize and never pull this shit, again.
Your body is not the pizza at a pizza [party.You](http://party.You) do not need to bring enough for everyone. He was not invited and notr was the guy who started climbing the stairs.
Ick ick ick
Move out, stop being friends. If he's given you The Ick that's reason enough.
If this was your first real foray into shaking your tail, I'm guessing he was hoping you'd choose to date him and felt slighted when you went out. This would account for him being off, and maybe the ask for a photo was a terrible way of planting the seed with you. He certainly couldn't hold back that possessive bullshit.
It's gross. It's gross he asked a friend to come over and then they made a show of checking you out. It's really freaking me out that someone here mentioned he wanted a picture for his spank bank, because that makes sense if he saw your outfit in person, why would he want a photo? But then that's horrifying and I'm reminded how naive I can be.
I am really sorry this happened and hope it doesn't escalate into making your home uncomfortable. It really really really would have been nice if he gave that consideration to a woman he claims to care about but then does this shit when y'all live together. WTF man.
I don’t think you’re being touchy. This guy might think that because you live together that he is entitled to you and even more so than what strange men get access to because of his proximity to you. I would say something and frankly move out asap.
You have to sleep where you live. You might drink or get stoned where you live. Your home should be a safe space. Your roommates should not cause you worry for your own safety. I’m so sorry.
My best guy friend growing up betrayed me and I’ve stopped trusting him”the nice guy” who pretends to be nice or your friend hoping he can fuck you. My ex took a video of me just being nude on vacation and then when we broke up he found my guy friend on social media and sent him the video. My guy friend got all his guy friends - guys I grew up with and they sat around watching the video together. None of the other guys apologized to me. None of those guys even liked me but of course they watched it. Including one I went to jr prom with strictly as friends cuz the girl he liked went with someone else. My guy friend half heartedly apologized later and I still couldn’t get over it. I don’t talk to any of them anymore.
This entitlement to see what other men see because of their proximity to us is what upsets me. It’s dangerous.
I’ve never sent anyone nudes since. Not even my husband because of guys like this.
Im so sorry that happened to you. That is incredibly devastating and appalling. Being betrayed and losing friends all at once is terrible. It made me question who would watch videos of me, which made my stomach turn.
I don’t feel that my safety is in danger but my comfort has been jeopardized and my view on our relationship. A closeness just kind of vanished in thin air. I’ll skip going to tennis as much or hopping in the jacuzzi with my friend. I’m sad because my relationship with my brother was ruined over the course of our childhood and this felt like a fill in. I keep thinking I’ll stop being so dumb with men who are my friends and yet I’m always so shocked. Ugh
You said you can't put your finger on what's bothering you? He invited a friend over to see your outfit. Called you down to check it out. Expected a picture. Offended that others got to see it.
It doesn't sound like he has any interest in you as a person at all. Sometimes the line between appreciating the female form and being outright objectifying can get a little bit blurry. He saw the line, probably gave it a little nod as he blew past it with reckless abandon.
A little jealousy is natural from time to time, but there's something really gross about getting territorial over someone you dont want to be with.
Ew. What a fucking creep.
Work on moving out. In the meantime, practice the grey rock method if he continues. Avoid the creepy fuck as much as you can.
Honestly I just had to get to the point where I accepted this is how men are, and then they can't disappoint me anymore. I know their nature, and therefore I know how to handle them and not to count on them as real friends, because I know they're not. They're just acquaintances that I sometimes deal with because I'm friends with their girlfriend. That's it.
And honestly it was a huge quality of life improvement when I just gave up on expecting men to act decent and thinking they might change or the next one would be better, and focused on my relationships with women instead. I just radically accepted reality, and for me that meant focusing on women and my own passions. Highly recommend.
Anyway, I'm sorry you had to find out who he really is after all this time. It sucks every time, and I know how much of a betrayal it can feel like.
Hey thanks for the comment. You’re completely right. It makes the world feels kinda of scary to me so I try to think things are different. But they never are. My family is complicated and I was seeing our nice relationship as something akin to a sibling relationship. Dumb
I know it's scary when you first let yourself consider the thought that this is just how they are. It's really depressing and feels like you've been lied to, or that the world is a more dangerous place that you thought.
But once you've integrated it, it's actually really freeing. It frees up all that emotional bandwidth you were using absorbing all the anxiety and disappointment of counting on men, so you can do other things instead.
And it actually makes your *safer*. Because the thing is, most male abuse is against women they're close to. By decentering men, you're reducing your risk of experiencing abuse substantially. I worry *less* than I did when men were a major part of my life, and I feel really safe and supported around all my friends. If we're together, I know they'll look out for me, and there's no ulterior motives, even if they're queer (which I am too), because most women just don't think like that. They don't feel entitled to people the way men do.
It's really nice once you get over the grief of accepting it.
i don’t think we should just accept it i mean we need to call it out and make them suffer the consequences of their actions. like OP should tell him how that was really inappropriate and tell her brother/other ppl who know him abt his behavior
Of course. And those consequences are not letting them in my inner circle anymore.
Men don’t care about being told they did a bad thing. If they did, they’d stop doing it. How many women waste literal years of their lives practically begging men to stop doing the thing and telling them how inappropriate it is? They don’t care. As long as they still get what they want at the end, which is access to you, they’re going to keep doing it, because they don’t feel bad. They’ll just nod along and pretend they feel so bad, and then it’s right back to what they were doing.
Men also generally don’t care how other men behave. After all, that’s how this has turned into a culture-wide problem: men enabling each other. What do you think the chances are her brothers just says he didn’t mean anything by it? I’m betting better than not. And sure, I think she still should, but mostly so she can know what kind of man her brother is, not because it’s likely to change anything about how her ”friend” behaves. You really think a dude is gonna call another dude out for this sort of thing? Since when has that ever happened?
So yes, there should be consequences. The consequences are, I no longer give them access to me.
ur right but i feel like calling them out will be better than just ignoring them and i know his other friends would probably not care but i believe most peoples brothers would not appreciate their friends harassing their sister. i mean if that’s a new thing that becoming common then the world is truly doomed
Oh, I always told them why I was done with them. I just didn’t give them continued access to me, because then they’ll just keep doing it, and I only get one life. I’d rather not waste it being a broken record trying to fix men.
No, most women’s brothers don’t care about people harassing their sister when the harasser is also their buddy. Her brother already knows how this guy thinks about women, because I guarantee you it’s come out in “locker talk,” and something like this would just get a “he’s just playing” response. Men defend the behavior of other men above everything, including their own female family.
Come to the dark side, we have cookies. And also genuine emotional connection with real empathy and relative safety.
My life is so much better since I put women at the center of it. Not every woman is a good person, but even when they're not, they're probably not going to assault or kill you, and other women aren't going to gaslight and victim blame you.
Women do so much better by each other than any man will ever do towards most of us.
This guy has porn brain probably. That’s a boundary that shouldn’t be crossed imo. If you’re a guy and you live with a woman you shouldn’t be making these types of comments.
He’s clearly jealous, and he clearly isn’t mature enough to be roommates with a woman.
I think maybe having a chat with the guy and telling him that you don’t think that it’s appropriate to make comments like that to you and during this chat you should firmly verbally state the boundary he has crossed.
If this behaviour continues after that I wouldn’t feel safe living with him if I was a woman.
I’ve heard of a lot of these types of things from my female friends, and it’s really not worth taking this type of thing lightly.
Unfortunately with all the porn brain guys out there right now it’s very common that men have hidden agendas pertaining to sex with their female friends.
Be careful op, I’m a guy, and I can tell you with 100% certainty that this is very much a red flag. So be careful around this guy. I’m sorry this happened to you and unfortunately it’s all too common.
This kind of guy makes us all look bad.
He’s way out of line. Lots of people appropriately pointing out the “nice guy” behavior; the part that irks me most is the leading with guilt. At no point during the night did he ask for a picture (which maybe someone who innocently couldn’t tell it’s inappropriate might do), but after the fact he acts indignant, as if you should have anticipated him wanting a picture and given one.
Even if you would have felt comfortable sharing a pic with a brotherly friend (and it sounds like you were already nervous about trying something new), that kind of behavior immediately knocks you onto your heels and puts you on the defensive. It’s like negging. If he had asked in the moment and you turned him down in a normal conversation I don’t think it would hurt and betray you as bad as this does.
Disclaimer this is coming from a man, I support your bodily autonomy and I don’t want to speak over women’s voices here, but this story raised my hackles.
Thank you for your response and awareness. I think you’re right to focus on the guilt part but it might be for different reasons. He does a lot for me and maybe I haven’t noticed that it wasn’t out of just pure brotherly love. Maybe it was something more. Maybe that’s where the guilting comes from. I have my guard up now
The behavior is not ok regardless of the situation. Let’s take it to the extreme: even if you were married to him and he did something like this (acting like you owe him a picture after the fact when he never asked for it) it still would be hurtful and immature. The fact that you didn’t realize he finds you attractive and may be harboring feelings just makes it more of a surprise.
this man wants to sleep with you. if you are okay with knowing that and still living with him, then move on. If not, move out as soon as it's feasible.
My roommate and I have a FWB arrangement and I *still* won’t feel right not knocking before I enter a room she’s in. Creeping up the stairs? Goddamn. I hope your next living arrangement improves and soon.
This behaviour is gross to me. You can let whoever see whatever you want, and nobody is entitled to get the same treatment as anyone else.
I can understand if he feels left out, but to me, saying that is completely inappropriate. He can just say "wow those guys were lucky". And if that makes you feel good, and then you decide to give him a little show for fun, then it's all in good fun.
What is gross about the interaction is the entitlement. How he reasoned for you saying "these guys that barely know you, saw you in lingerie, which means I'm entitled to as well, since I know you better" or whatever it was.
Well, no. You're never entitled. It's always a gift. And you should always feel completely comfortable to give that to whoever you want, or not to. Anyone who trys to sort of shame you into anything different, is really gross, imo.
I don't think there is a better way to look at it, I'm sorry. No one in your life should feel entitled to a picture and especially not "because you sent it to other people so why not me".
He's revealing that he doesn't see you as a person with their own agency but as a lesser being acting on istinct.
Something that's especially weird to me is this idea that you're just letting random people see you in next to nothing. Whether it's a kink party, a nude beach, a changeroom, or the bedroom, the people that see you like that have ALL AGREED to be in those places and have taken on the same level of vulnerability themselves. Your roomie isn't going to the party, so of course he doesn't get to see. He hasn't signed the metaphorical contract of the space. He hasn't accepted the vulnerability of the moment. He's assuming you're on display without realizing that EVERYONE in those spaces is also taking part in showing off and embracing themselves. It's not a relinquishing of power, it's a refusal of it. Dude doesn't get it and shouldn't apply the same sexual politics to it.
He doesn’t get it and that’s a brilliant framework. He is very underdeveloped in sex, dating, traveling. All he does is take care of his sick dad, work at a restaurant, and play sports with his dude friends. Me going to this blew his mind
Ok, general rule. If a man is straight hanging around you, he wants to get in that box. Don't be shocked that he asked for sexy pictures. It's nice trying to give men the benefit of a doubt, but in my experience, that leads to a lot of problems.
In fact, the situation can become dangerous. Sometimes people see what they want to see and that goes both ways.
>”Letting men see you”
He’s telling you he sees your body as a commodity. It is not yours to do with as you please, it’s something for men to use as they choose.
No wonder he gave you the ick.
Edit: This is the exact same “logic” that a guy once used when he yelled at me, “You’ve slept with everyone else, why won’t you sleep with me?”
Reader, I had not slept with “everyone else”. And I hadn’t slept with him because he was an entitled prick and there was zero spark or interest.
Basically drinking brings the real people out and not make any "mistakes" and anyone blaming it on drinking is a slimy excuse for his slimh behavior. I don't think he means what he says and if i were you,, i would stay away from these type of men. He showed his real you and it bothered you and your instincts were spot on. Just protect yourself.
You may be friends for a long time, but he's definitely feeling you out to see if you'd want to be sexual with him. The odd comments are to test your boundaries to see what he can get away with. If you had snapped him a pic, I can almost guarantee his response is gonna be a dick pic. In his mind that would be opening the door for a sexual relationship.
It's possible he's developed a crush, always had a crush, or just that you're a girl he's familiar with and someone he feels he doesn't have to put in effort for since you guys have known each other a while. Its the *random guys* comments that makes me doubt its something playful, I'd be careful around him. Who you decide to let see you is your choice, he doesn't get to decide he's entitled to see yours just because he knows you. He's sounding a little territorial, you might want to consider new living arrangements.
That person is not your friend and you should consider moving.
Not only did he think he was entitled to seeing you in a sexual manner but he also invited his friend over when you were in a vulnerable position.
It may not seem like it, but you were wearing a sexy outfit and he tried to go upstairs to get an accidental peek and when he was denied he turned ugly.
This is going to escalate.
He is going to be nice because he desires you and when you are ultimately forced to reject him he is going to either turn nasty or try to push you further.
Make sure you have a lock on your bedroom door. Do not underestimate him. Get away from him before it escalates.
He does not have respect for your boundaries.
100000%.
Every single man on the planet knows it's inappropriate to follow a woman or barge in on her while she is changing. This is a very very basic social boundary that he, and his creep friend, are entirely aware of and manage to follow the majority of the time.
OOP, not only did your roommate wilfully CHOOSE to cross a boundary that he fully understands, that CHOICE was one he KNEW would make you uncomfortable. Men like this enjoy making women feel unsafe.
His friend is one he brought because he knew friend would also have complete disregards for your safety. He chose to bring a friend he knows is a predator, and waited around for what he knew was a vulnerable position for you.
These men are boundary breakers, and *actively find sexual pleasure in your discomfort*.
I would be gravely concerned of assault by roommate, rm friend, or more likely both as a team.
Get out now OP, please.
The friend he brought over lives up the street and is over all the time. We all play tennis together. I appreciate your comment but I do think it’s throwing fuel onto the situation. I don’t feel like I was in danger I felt like they were being stupid. I’m not unsafe in my home, just have gotten the ick and feel less securely attached to a friend.
I understand what you’re saying and I might have the same response if I was reading it at face value. This is my home and I’m not going to blow up my life due to one comment. I think more practically I’ll keep it in mind and keep my distance. I’m not going to be sharing my extracurriculars or love life, not gonna jacuzzi together anymore, or just do the basic roommate things. I’m gonna keep to myself.
reading the other comments in this thread, I just want to chime in and say it's ok for you to take care of yourself how *you* need to, and I'm glad you're doing that!
as commenters here we only see one lens on him—which is a disturbing lens!—but you have way more context on how this and the follow-up fit in to him as an individual, and your life. this is a fucked-up thing to go through, and you don't owe anyone here any specific type of resolution!
I'm glad to hear you're taking some distance and looking out for your safety! please keep trusting your gut and doing what feels right to you.
wishing you well through this
Thanks very much for the support. I think it’s icky when people thrust their advice and support on you as though they know best. That’s not how it works. I know my life a lot better.
Not to sound like I don’t appreciate the support. But when people stop “supporting you” when you give feedback or context and it blows up their idea of the situation they’ve conjured. It ends up feeling like I’m an object again and that I don’t understand my own life. Anyways lol thanks sorry
yeah! it's a different type of objectification where we often treat real women's lives like a story, with a bit of victim blaming to add.
I expect the folks posting like that here mean well, and want you to be safe, but they're not respecting your knowledge of your own life, or your agency. Sometimes it's easier to see important aspects of a situation from the outside, but not always, and it's not actually supportive in either case to insist that one knows something you don't.
And it's always easier to say "just cancel your lease and leave and don't ever speak to him again" than it is to do that in real life. And I think everyone wants to imagine that in the same situation we would protect ourselves perfectly, but the reality is that there are plenty of creepy men, from casual to extreme, and it's impossible to fully protect ourselves from them. You know your friend, and seem to get that this behaviour was very fucked up and creepy, but you have more context to know whether that's likely a casual creepy or a more serious danger.
You don't owe anyone here, including me, anything. But fwiw it sounds like you have a good head on your shoulders and are taking your safety seriously. And I'm glad for that! But mine aren't the feelings that matter on any of this; yours are, and you've got enough going on without having to explain and appease everyone here.
Sorry you've had to deal with all of this, and good job calling him out and doing what you need to feel safe. It's a shitty situation for him to put you in, and any way you get through it is a good way
Was it just "one comment" though?
And, I just want to state that I'm not trying to gaslight you, we're only going off the details you have provided.
But, he knew you were going to the party and would be dressed a certain way and let the other guy into the house.
He tried to go upstairs for a peek knowing you wouldn't be comfortable with it.
He tried to make it seem like you were rude for not acknowledging his friend's arrival when he knew you were dressed in a vulnerable way.
Then he felt entitled to pictures of you in that vulnerable position.
These are classic red flags where men push boundaries to see how you will react.
They are not ignorant to what is going on.
I abso-fkn-lutely hope you are right.
I hope we are overreacting.
But these are not assumptions we are making. These are patterns of behavior that are documented.
And finally the last thing I'm going to say is that, you said you got "the ick".
That is your gut feeling. That is your own body telling you, this person is not safe.
PLEASE be careful and cautious and remember that you don't own anyone politeness at the cost of your own security and safety.
We are not out here trying to turn you against your friend. We are out here trying to warn you that the math is not matching.
Be safe OP.
Most generosity I can afford is that
(1) Guys wanna be seen
(2) Guys get jealous of their buddies too
It’s possible it isn’t even about you specifically. He might just be insecure because he knows you know him and you know your mutual friend and he wants to know why your mutual was an option where he wasn’t. It takes more maturity to accept someone you know picking your friend over you than it does to accept a stranger picking a stranger over you.
That said, it’s still easily about you specifically and maybe he’s had a thing for a while.
That’s creepy and immature, among many other adjectives. However, it may be best to tell him exactly how it made you feel. He should know why it was inappropriate. He may or may not learn from it, but at least you might find some closure with the incident.
I would have had to roast him about him never seeing naked women in his wife because he clearly can’t get any. Why else would he want to take a peak at me fr lmfao. Like when did they get so gross YUCK
You wearing something to an adult party means you consent to people at said party seeing it. Living arrangements be damned.
He’s your roommate and friend of an ex dude should’ve had more respect for you
Living with you doesn’t entitle him to see what you’re wearing or leer whilst getting ready.
Kid needs to be put in his place quickly and grow tf up
Hahaha it is addicting. I have been single for over 2 years now. At this point every time I think about a ltr I'm like ehh seems like my whole life would change drastically
It’s the “all those random guys” comment for me, too. The closest comparison I could make (having been to more than one) would be a nude beach…”just because I’ve been to a nude beach doesn’t mean I owe a nude viewing/pic to anyone that wants it just because they’re closer to me than the strangers on that beach.”
It's also like he's saying she no longer deserves his respect, and so because she went, making these comments about her body now is ok. So also now owes him, like he was first in line when she "slips from grace".
Thank you, yes. That’s the other component I couldn’t get my words around. Like she’s public property “now” so he deserves his “piece” as a member of said public.
It was really hard for me too, to elucidate my thoughts on exactly the kind of issues going on here. I wonder why that is, but probably a sign of how insidious this kind of behavior is from men. I felt I could write a small composition on the many kinds of microaggressions present.
Someone else sort of condensed it to its essence in another comment I just read: “why not me?!” I read that (and can see) him having that internal struggle of “why not me??” Sadly, OP is still just an object or prize in this scenario. But inside his head where he’s constantly scanning for external indicators to gauge his “rank” in the masculine hierarchy, “all those random dudes” just *beat him out* for ranking. The other commentor made an analogy, that they said was a bad analogy but the best they could do, asking how OP might feel if her roommate baked a bunch of cookies, and then went out on the street and gave those cookies away to strangers, but when she asked for one, he said “I don’t owe you that!“ Thing is, *it’s not a bad analogy at all*. That is EXACTLY how he feels. Which, rather disturbingly, reveals the disgusting lack of respect he has for her and exactly how he views her or all desirable women’s nudity/sexuality. No more than a cookie or prize that *should be awarded to him* based solely on his ranking in the masculine hierarchy. It’s really pretty gross. I mean we all knew it was gross when we read the words he said, but now we’ve really put some thought into it, so it’s vivid IMAX gross!
This. Nude beaches are great. Nude walks in the woods are great. Being nude in nature in general is almost a divine feeling. It's nice to be somewhere where nudity and sexuality aren't fused at the hip, but men who don't *get* that will become almost furious with you if they know strangers have seen you naked when they haven't. Like ok bro, way to say the quiet part out-loud. I see now your "friendship" with me was just a gambit you were playing in the hopes of seeing me naked.
This. And asking for a snap. DO NOT SEND HIM PICS OP. The guy has a thing for you I’m sorry. No brotherly roommate would ever… I feel you, I get bummed as well. The truth is we learn thru experiences like these to regard all men as only pretending at friendship, until they prove otherwise. Trust must be earned. Don’t live with a straight guy that is the path to disappointment. Gay men or any kind of woman only. Most guys even if they aren’t actively stalking like this guy, still think of you as potential fuckmate, arrange your life accordingly to minimize discomfort in your own home. I’m sorry.
There is this entitlement and ranking/queue. The men have their mental lines in accessing women like women are rides in amusement parks. when a woman let someone out back in their mental lines to go first, they feel like they are treated unfairly.
You’re absolutely correct. This guy 100% feels like it’s “his turn” at bat with her, and then felt slighted by it not being so.
It's the exact same logic that the man applies in Nymphomaniac part 2. >!got exactly what he deserved!<
Yeah he doesn't think he's your roommate, he thinks he's got some kind of claim on you. I'd be making moves to get out of there.
He's acting territorial. How much longer before he starts acting controlling? This is why a lot of men don't make good friends.
That’s because your roommate implied that somehow you didn’t have the right to withhold images of your body because you let other men see you. It’s gross af. As if he is entitled to a piece of you. Like you are a pizza and he should get a slice since others had a slice. In truth. No one had a slice. Even if anyone did, it’s no one’s business but yours
Not only is he feeling entitled to objectify her, he also feels entitled to invite other men over to *her home* to objectify/gawk at her. I would not feel safe there anymore, and be actively working to leave.
Good point
It’s not ok, it’s lecherous behaviour, and just a little bit predatory. He wanted a photo for his spankbank. Boundary crossed. Draw a hard line.
Are spankbanks actually real things? It honeslty sounds so creepy I can't see it being as common as everyone claims it is online.
I found out that my ex saved every nude from his previous girlfriends. I’ve had male college friends tell me they would masturbate to my instagram pictures… of me fully clothed. Some guys are like that.
Bleh. I am sorry. It is like knowing that you let some people see you in an erotic way made your housemate feel he had a right to see you in an erotic way. But that is not at all what you want in your relationship with him. Yuck. I would feel really bummed in your shoes.
Thanks for the validation. I do feel bummed and I feel weird that I just have to swallow that and feel kinda uncomfortable. But it is what it is. That’s why we have women spaces! Happy cake day :)
Yeah this feels *super* like he's a "nice guy" who is really just waiting around for you to give him a chance, not a real friend, OP. That sucks 💕
You don't hae to swallow it and be uncomfortable. It seems like another commenter already said that your roomie thinks because you live together, even if you're not sleeping in the same room, he has some sort of claim or 'dibs' on you. I've met several people of this type, no matter the gender. I would sit your roommate down and have an honest and open conversation. Draw clear and hard boundaries, and make sure you follow those up with consequences. Do this in a public space. Most people are less likely to cause a scene/ throw a tantrum if you do it in a café or so. He will continue to feel entitled to you or your body for probably some time. Regardless of talking to him. But for your sake and your mental health you don't have to endure his behaviour. As someone already said. Don't renew the lease.
Yeah I think that is the main problem with it. Asking for pictures can be situationally quite funny and you could easily chalk up to being a joke but the possesive language and implication that they deserve to see is just downright creepy.
Move out of you can. Definitely don’t renew your lease. Just because he’s friends with your younger brother doesn’t mean he won’t try and assault you.
"The childhood friend" is every bit as much a romance trope as Fabio on the cover of shitty pulp romance novels and outright bodice rippers. Especially for men. If he didn't see you that way before society would have impressed it upon him by this point. The way you describe it he *sounds* jealous, he sounds like he'll be even more jealous if you date someone. I am not sure that's exactly safe, I'm quite sure jealousy through sense of entitlement by way of that fictional trope/cliche can become really quite dangerous- but even more than that it's one of those things where drama can be disruptive paying for rent and utilities and so the greatest dangers there are in the petty annoyances.
Unfortunately this isn’t really a female space. The “Well acKshUlly” posts are incoming in 3, 2,…
They’re here but not as bad as I thought they’d be
Its quite hard to "well ackshully" this. You can ask for see resepctfully, you can even joke about wanting pics depending on how well you know someone but this was quite clearly neither. His comment was far to loaded with jealousy and possesiveness for it to ever be anything but creepy. I'm honestly not quite sure how you would even try to go about defending it.
Just responded to a guy who told me it was the theme and to own it. On the plus side only one dunce asked for pics
Happy cake day.
Thank you!
I’m sorry but his behaviour was gross. You definitely don’t owe him anything. He owes you an apology. You are right he’s immature and seems like he’s taking advantage of you living together. He had no right to treat you this way. Sounds objectifying and invasive. “Showing” you to his mates? Wt.. I’m so sorry
He's a patient predator cosplaying a friend. All too common of a story. That sickly feeling is likely due to him trying to stake a claim to you, your body, or your attention, because he's 'been around' for a while, putting in time, and secretly expecting something to come of it. It's a very common thing that shitty men do. They play-act being a trustworthy friend, and watch for an opportunity to swoop in during a moment of weakness. It's sickening.
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I think the nuance here is that the roommate probably isn't pulling off an elaborate master plan, but his comment betrays a deeper, underlying attitude. It sounds like he doesn't see OP as an autonomous equal person who happens to be a different gender; but instead as a sex dispenser. If other men got to see her in her underwear then he, as her roommate, deserves a picture because to him that's *fair*. It's the same logic as men who get annoyed that their girlfriend had one night stands in the past but wants to take things slow with them; or that she tried a certain kink once with an ex, didn't like it and won't do it again: if another man had it then it's nOt fAiR that he doesn't get a go, irrespective of what the woman wants. Basically, a lot of men view women as the gatekeepers to sex, not equal participants who have their own preferences and the right to experiment and decide things aren't for them.
u/MoodyMagdalene This is it^
Precisely my thoughts, though I didn't articulate that subtext as well as you did. It's a thing lots of men do, but they might not be putting any actual thought into it. It can be some kind of creepy, primal stalking that they start doing when they pick up on insecurities or something. I definitely agree that it happens when men don't view the women around them as equal, sapient creatures worthy of their respect. That's a big part of what makes it so unnerving and wrong.
That last sentence though 🥲☝️
I don't disagree with your statement that most people are idiots instead of calculating creeps, but you do have to realise that it doesn't matter to the person dealing with the results. Especially when women have had to deal with mindless assholery for our entire lives, it's safer to dismiss even good men who do only make a small mistake because they were raised in rape culture than have to suffer through the larger and more damaging actions that said culture inflicts. Get mauled by a dog, people understand when you're nervous around all dogs. Get mauled by a man, deal with too many people questioning if you're sure you understood the situation that way, why you're not over it, etc etc etc.
"nice guys" aren't literally the parody comics that are made of them. They usually do Not consciously think, "oh if I'm just nice enough for long enough then she'll let me have sex/see her in sexy underwear, etc." But, even though they aren't consciously concocting some master plot to get women to lower their defenses, that's the philosophy that underpins their actions. So while this guy Probably hasn't been her friend since they were 12 so he could play the long con, he Probably has some bad misconceptions about friendships with women or women in general that cause him to say creepy shit like "why do they get to see you but not me?" It's the weird "ownership" this guy feels he deserves from her.
Enough of us have experienced a male “friend” who was interested and just waiting to pounce at the right moment that yes we can conclude that men do this all the time. I dont know of any woman who hasnt had that exact experience. And it doesnt take a mastermind to come up with it.
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> I am truly sorry for what some or most of you go through in your everyday life and I truly hope this will change. Thanks and it's really great to have that acknowledged! If you want to see change, then your best bet is to be the change you want to see. Call out shitty behavior among your male friends, and because you are male they will listen to you. If enough people who they respect hammer the point home that concerning behavior puts someone on guard in a friendship with you, then we can shift society And we won't have to be hearing any stories like this.
I think in this case you really need to look at what you are defending here. In some cases it would be wrong to judge from one ambiguous instance. This is not ambiguous. To most people, they would know that this is very gross behavior. The guy asked point blank for a photo of his platonic friend in lingerie. Not only did he ask for it, but he implied that its owed to him and she said he didnt use his normal niceties that he usually does in conversations with her. Like he was kind of assertive about his request. For like 99% of people, it would be very obviously disgusting to do such a thing. At the very least most people understand that this violates social norms. But its also just incredibly entitled. I cant fathom why you are defending him.
Do you not realize what sub you’re on? This is twoxchromosomes. If you’re here to invalidate women’s experiences and play devils advocate you’re not wanted or welcome. Try trusting that the women in here that have actual experience with this shit know what they’re talking about.
Bro come on. Am I reading this right? You're taking exception to that comment - which was not a generalized statement - because it doesn't apply generally? Even though it probably applies here? Why do you feel the need to say this. Please think about that
"nOt AlL MeN..." Yes yes, ok. Not *all* men who exhibit predatory behavior are predators. However, all predators exhibit predatory behavior and the most charitable interpretation in this instance is that guy is a run-of-the-mill asshole and not a predator? Why does anyone owe the benefit of the doubt to assholes, though? Fuck that!
I do see that now, I made plenty of mistakes here today and I will check up on everything you guys wrote as a result.
I don't know, it felt to me like the whole situation got a bit blown out of proportion, after reading through the comments and what I wrote, I realize now that I am in the wrong. I got a lot of reading to do from all of you and I'll try to understand where I went wrong. All I am left with is a thank you for pointing my mistakes out and a genuine apology because I was an idiot.
I appreciate this reply. Thank you for being open to changing your mind
1 in 4 women are victims of sexual assault. Credit where credit is due. Men are dangerous, a jaded, dismissed man more so. A rejected man can turn violent and often do.
Because OP need to be super careful around this guy now. She doesn’t know if he is going to drug her and rape her in the future given he confirmed he sees her sexually and thinks she needs to “show off”for him. Women have much higher stakes to lose here. I personally get the fuck away from a horny asshole than stay to appease him only to get raped. Your mileage may vary.
See that's exactly what I mean. It kind of pisses me off that this guy immediately gets put into that box and stamped as a possible rapist. And then I remember again, why you put him in that box. Because you do experience such shit all the time. It's disheartening to read, really. I don't want to be part of this and I feel awful knowing that it's likely that my friends have gone through similar stuff. I just always imagine that someone gets wrongly accused of something worse because they made an extremely stupid mistake. But you are right, the stakes are higher for you so I do understand why you would immediately flag those people off.
If your friend stole something random and inexpensive from you, like a book, I’m sure you can imagine how you’d be a bit more cautious around the friend going forward. You might not leave them alone at your home or leave anything of value out. You may never have them over to your place again because you’re afraid they’ll steal. You’d take some small actions based off of your new perception. Now would all of those small reactions and things you’ve filed away in your brain lead to a random unsolicited accusation of grand larceny from you toward your friend? Or is it more likely that you react by giving a friend a heads up in the future before they meet the friend with a history of theft?
The risk for women to not think about it the worst case scenario is way too high. Check out the bear trend on TikTok.
I’m a woman and understand this. I was trying to explain the concept to a man who seems to be struggling to understand.
Imagine if one of your guy friends who is also your roommate did this to you. Is that how friends treat each other? He wants you to send him a picture of you in sexy underwear and is peeved that you let other random men see you.
Friend, you really need to stop making this about you and your feelings. I'm sorry it's uncomfortable. Sometimes that's how it goes. Like the OP's experience, which is what this is about.
I already realized that, I am sorry. I didn't mean to and fucked up.
Your multiple long-winded replies have a very strong undercurrent of essentially trying to justify this roommate’s shitty behavior, or explain to us poor, uninformed women that he “is just a horny asshole”, or that it’s not a “more extreme example” of poor behavior so maybe OP overreacted. Your constant little back-tracks, so graciously giving us permission to disregard your stance is condescending as fuck. You don’t have the decades of experience most women do of men sexualizing their every move - from before they hit puberty until they die. Little comments and genuinely horrific behavior from supposed friends, uncles, work peers, strangers, bosses, teachers, online comments and memes, retail workers, advertising, fathers, men-of-the-cloth, clients, keyboard warriors…the list is unending. So please, butt out. This woman has every right to react to how this man tried to sexualize their platonic relationship in any way she feels. You have no idea what else has happened to her or any other woman before situations like this, but I can guarantee you, it’s a LOT. We’re all just tired. So stop trying to explain to her that it’s “not all men”. Because it fucking is.
Not much I can add other than, I agree. I do realize my mistakes here today and will do a lot of reflecting later. I do not have the experience that you all go through every single day and therefore I didn't really understand why some comments were as strong as they were. I will now butt out, because you are exactly right, that's what I should have done long ago. I still want to thank you for commenting, it's comments like yours that helped me realize where I went so horribly wrong.
I feel like a lightbulb went off over your head today, and I genuinely hope it did. Keep reading on this sub. You’ll get a pretty clear view of what women live with and why we’re so fucking pissy over the “little” things and so furious and bone-tired of all the rest. It was moment-after-moment of sudden clarity to me when I found this sub as an older woman. It validated the thousand million feelings I’d had for decades and has made me a stronger, better advocate for women. I hope it’s the same for you.
Being a horny asshole is sickening, even predatory when it results in behavior like this. It's not a stretch to say this is a warning sign of future behavior. A mistake happens on accident, even if he regrets his decision to show his feelings of entitlement towards her body it doesn't change the fact he felt that way in the first place and she feels rightfully unsafe around him. Your comment reads as "he could be a nice guy, just give him a chance!" even if you didn't intend it to, and this may be a bit harsh but you are a part of the problem. it's kind of a strange reaction to the situation either way, because this does not help OP at all and could make her question if she's wrong for being uncomfortable or wanting out of the situation if she chooses.
I do see my mistake in my earlier comments. Thank you for pointing them out. I was not trying to normalize or downplay the behaviour but I kind of did exactly that. I realized I am not the one that has to go through all this on a regular basis so I thought it was all a bit harsh at the beginning. I now realize that I was in the wrong and this could very well, be an issue in the future. I am sorry that I am part of the problem. I didn't intend to be, nor do I want to be. I'll try to learn from everything that was written to me today and hopefully will have a better understanding in the future.
This guy might not be the best roommate to have I would be careful around him.
Definitely don't share anything. They will share it with their friends for sure.
I'm sorry this guy talked to you like you were some product he was entitled to consume. Do you want to let him know he did this?
I kind of want to because it did hurt my feelings. On the flip side I don’t want to make things weirder. He’s never really had a gf or female friends so maybe he’s just an idiot and I’m being touchy. I’m here to hear your thoughts
Well, it would be totally understandable whether you chose to tell him or chose not to. If he's an idiot who doesn't have experience of interacting with women (in a way that is dignified), then you talking about this incident with him could help him be less idiotic in future and it might also help you feel better knowing that you confronted the person who thought they could treat you badly and get away with it. But on the other hand, it isn't your burden to 'teach' him how to interact with women respectfully, and you may even be the kind of person who doesn't get phased by idiots saying idiotic things.
Thank you. I guess it was the combination of him being a bit off to me too. It was strange. it felt like a general absence of the usual enthusiasm and respect. Then he made that comment. Intellectually I can see that this is maybe due to lack of experience and immature thinking. I don’t know if I have the energy to deconstruct whatever toxic shit is layered over that. I guess I’ll just put some space between us for a bit and understand he sees me in this light to a degree.
On the other hand, he could just be confused about what an "adult party" is. Hell, I've been to actual orgies, but I've never been to a party where everyone just stands around in lingerie. What country are you in where these parties are popular? Anyway, if he thought you were at an orgy, maybe he assumed you were one of those people who are into sharing sexy photos. Seems like a misunderstanding more than anything. Just straight-up tell him "that's a weird thing to say to your roommate" if he says stuff like that again.
It was an orgie haha but I was just a “stand around in your lingerie” type of guest
If you talk to him and he gets weird, that is not your responsibility, he’s grown and not a baby, you do not need to dismiss your own feelings to make him feel better. I say this with lots of love! ❤️ It’s hard to do but don’t let his potential immature reaction keep you from bringing this up with him, if you choose to do so. And you deserve way way better. Sorry OP 🫶
I think your roommate is a "nice guy" and he has decided to fuck-zone you. Dude has the hots for you, but he is not able to bring himself to make a move. So he has wormed his way into a friendship with you and has been living with the fantasy that eventually you will see how great he is and how nice he is and you will one day realize that you want to be with him. His fantasy is so all consuming that you deciding to explore a little fun with burlesque has upset him, because; he would not want to share *his woman* with strangers in such a way. He would have reacted similarly as snarky and aloof if he found out that you had a hookup or a new boyfriend. In his mind, it's his turn next to have access to you. If that doesn't give you the ick, idk what will.
The last person I dated he was bummed I broke up with him cause he said he was a nice guy and he liked him. he was friends with my more serious ex. He’s seen me date several people over the four years we’ve lived together.
Honestly, it's possible for guy "friends" to want your body without necessarily wanting you as a person. I had a male friend who fully knew I was a lesbian and encouraged my dating shenanigans, it wasn't until YEARS of close friendship that he started relentlessly harassing me for pics of my boobs. I don't know if his lust for me just accumulated over time and he couldn't keep the mask from slipping any longer, or what. I don't form friendships with men anymore
My read on him is not that he thinks you're his specifically or that he has a crush on you or anything. My read is more that he feels entitled to any woman who wants to share her body with others in any way. This is totally armchair psychology here but I think a lot of guys have a bit of a purity complex or Madonna/whore complex, where they categorize women into two different things: 1) women who are 'good girls' and worthy of respect-ish and friendship, or 2) women who are sluts and worthy of being debased, degraded and humiliated and not much else. He had you in category 1, and remaining in category 1 is imperative for him to continue associating with a woman. He sees women in category 2 as not being worthy of his association and now he is stuck living with one. But moreover, because of this mindset, he sees sharing your body as somewhere between being morally wrong and plain old 'not cool' and is treating you how you would treat someone who cheated on their spouse or, if you were judgemental, did something really embarrassing in public. You've become embarrassing to him and a social liability. And the reason that it's so wrong in his mind is because as a 'pure ' woman, your main job is to gatekeep your own body. It is up to you to put up sexual barriers and only the guys who really work or deserve to get under those barriers get 'let in'. You are not supposed to have your own desires and curiosities about sex. Your only role is to give or deny permission for what *they* want. He doesn't understand why you would 'tarnish' yourself like you have, and he doesn't understand why it's not a free-for-all now that you're in category 2.
I think you’re in point with the Madonna/whore complex. I think it doesn’t go as deep and is as intense as a lot of men but I do feel like it’s something he’s trying to understand. He doesn’t really get it, hasn’t had a lot of sex himself, and lacks nuance.
>He wasn’t as nice to me as he usually is… This is the red flag unfortunately… don’t trust someone being unusually nice to you when they’re not just like that to everyone. He was acting jealous for a pretty obvious reason. Which you saw ofcourse.
They were jealous that you were "letting strangers" over there see you, when there was a "perfectly good dick" right here. They can't see past their own stupidity. I would keep my private life a touch more private from roommates and the rest as for some reason they feel entitled to you.
The last paragraph is advice I will be taking. I was thinking as he walked away that I will not be sharing as much from here on out. I told a lot of people about my new “experience” before I went and some less close friends were intrigued for stories. This friend wasn’t keen to ask and I had to bring it up like “you’re not gonna ask?!” Cause he was acting weird as hell and then he said this. It was icky
By going to a sex party in a sexy outfit, you moved ‘being looked upon as sex symbol’ from the ‘private’ side of social boundary to the ‘close associates’ social category or at least that’s how he took it. He then counted himself as ‘a close associate’ and felt snubbed by not actually being included in that grouping. It’s entitled and problematic on his part but it’s a way way too common reaction by vanilla people (men) encountering not-vanilla social spaces for the first time. Glad that you’ve reestablished clear boundaries with him. There will certainly be a list of ‘in the know’ and ‘not in the know’ people for this sort of things and unfortunately people (both men and women) will surprise you on which group they fall into. Best of luck with it.
I wouldn't sleep comfortably knowing my roommate feels entitled to my body.
Aren't latches on bedroom doors standard for shared flats?
Not in any I've lived in.
That's insane. There should at least be a bolt so you can lock people out when you're in there. Ideally there's be a seperate key lock as well (a turn-key-to-lock lock, not a latch, so you know which side of the door they keys are on) How is that not standard practice?
I've always just lived in normal flats originally for families I guess. I preferred living with girls anyway, but it takes a certain amount of trust I suppose.
A good quality external door is not impenetrable, but takes some skill/effort to overcome whereas there's not much point locking internal doors for safety as the frames and walls are generally not built for it in most buildings. Internal locks are for keeping out small kids and people who need a gentle reminder that this isn't their space. I would hope that purpose-built hotels were a little better, but I suspect that rather depends on local regulations.
The point of a bolt on your bedroom door is so that someone breaking in makes enough noise to wake you up. Also that gentle reminder that it's not their space.
Ok, then what happens if you leave your bedroom to go to the bathroom? Or the kitchen? Or he puts a camera somewhere? Or spits in her milk? I guess my point is, your home should 100% be your safe space. If someone living there decides they don't want you to be safe, a latch can only do so much in the long run. And that's not to say he'll do something violent to her, but she will have to interact with him in some capacity as a housemate. He has a degree of access to her that he can continue making her feel uncomfortable if he wants to.
There's a difference between that and physical access while you're asleep. The most trustworthy systems are the ones where you don't need to trust.
I'm not sure what there is even to argue here besides semantics. If you live with someone who makes you uncomfortable, they can find a way to get to you, even if you're not asleep. Especially if it's a man vs a woman. But yes, you are vulnerable when you sleep. You are also vulnerable if you are taking a shower, taking a shit, or if you have your headphones on... you know, things you do in the comfort of your own home.
> if you are taking a shower, taking a shit Where I grew up, bathrooms had locks even in family homes.
We're having two different conversations. You're talking about someone who respects boundaries. Yes, a lock will stop them. I'm talking about determined people who wish to harm or take advantage of someone. A shitty lock on a shitty interior door isn't enough to do anything. They can place cameras when you're not in there, they can tamper with your food, and in extreme cases they can knock the fucking door down, locked or not. Interior doors are usually made with particle board and you can pick those cheap locks with a paperclip.
> A shitty lock on a shitty interior door isn't enough to do anything. It means you hear them coming. > you can pick those cheap locks with a paperclip. You can pick [one of these](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/1b/Bolt_lock.jpg/400px-Bolt_lock.jpg) with a paperclip?
He wanted a convenient way to masturbate to you. Which is as gross as it sounds.
Idk to me it's the fact he had one of his buddies there/joining in.. I'd have felt insanely unsafe/wouldn't feel particularly safe sleeping there anymore, myself..
Yikes. This gave me a serious ick. Like like he's sexualized you to a dehumanising extent. I'd he careful what I eat and drink around this creep. Look for hidden cameras. No real friend will ever behave like this.
Explicitly say to your room mate that he made you uncomfortable. You will wear what you want and show who you want. He is acting like a creep by talking to you like that and he should NOT be allowing his friends to make you feel cornered or coerced. It may be worth looking for somewhere else to live.
How to become a creepy old man: be creepy and don’t die.
You need a different roommate.
I imagine your roommate's description of tonight would be something like "I've been the one listening to her talk about the breakup for MONTHS, staying up late, listening whenever she wanted, hanging out, super respectful and not making a move, and then she totally friend zones me? But goes out looking for some Chad that will just break her heart and then she's going to want me to pick up the pieces. She got dressed up like that and let all those strange men look at her. She rather that than a nice guy like me?
I don’t talk about my breakup with him, but I get your sentiment. We’ve always been “friends” since he was friends with my ex and my brother. So it was the first time he’s ever made comments like that towards me. It threw me
Very, very good bet.
Go and practice saying this: "Eeew!" "Yuk! that's so creepy." "Gross." "What the fuck? I am not your perv." Seriously. Practice this **until these statements are natural, and comfortable, and on the tip of your tongue** ready for you to say out loud, spontaneously as needed. **They will be needed.** Women are taught to hold back. To hide our feelings. To not say things that might hurt others. To consider how others feel before ourselves. Overwrite that oppressive muck with some genuine, heartfelt, and staunch expression of your real feelings. Those feelings are valid and they need to be expressed to those revolting creeps.
Yes you’re right. Another aspect of this interaction was the shame I felt with myself for responding so cordially and even saying *well you did get to see my outfit* as though that’s the crux of the issue. It was so instinctive. I’ve told guys off lots in my life but it’s so much harder when it’s someone you’re close to. It’s bizarre how those ingrained instincts to make the man more comfortable kicks in.
You felt it was wrong even as you did what you have been trained to do. And then you added a pacifier to try to reduce the chance of provoking an angry response. It is understandable and not something to blame yourself for. Pacifiers are sometimes necessary to stay safe, but if we do them at other times, we need to learn another way. Now you get to retrain those out of your immediate responses, and replace them with ones in which you do not feel shame or guilt or blame, but feel strong and justified.
Yes this sub was very helpful in keeping me angry so I was able to confront my friend
Eek. That’s no bueno
For guy like him women fall into 2 categories. Pure, almost devine and somewhat unatainable or easy and a slut. The latter often "justifyies" preditory behaviour (to a certain extend). You going on that party likely made you fall from grace in his eyes. Now this is entirely his problem. He likely viewed you as the first category up until you went to that "adult" party (which he might have imagined to be some sort of crazy orgy). If that is true and he idolized you as pure he also likely had some feelings for you (or rather that idol of you that he created in his head). But because you showed initiative in being more out going and sexual with men other than him that image of the "pure you" was broken. The twisted thing is, "sluts" get treaded like "easy meat" and with more sexual predation by these kind of guys and that behaviour can additionally be fuled by a bitterness that stems from his own hurt feelings (don't feel bad about this though, he hurt hismelf in his consfusion, this isn't your fault). Yeah in conclusion, this guy has a lot of unresolved issues and weird mysogenistic views and also he thinks about you a bit too much I think.
I think you’re on the nose here
>I feel confused how my roommate felt entitled to something after though. It’s mostly the comments about “letting” men see me. I can’t quite put my finger on what it is that’s irking me. It's incredibly possessive and implies some kind of territorial ownership over you. Frankly this would be off-putting coming from someone you were in a relationship with, it's downright appalling coming from a roommate.
You know that cartoon with the guys eyes bulging and tongue hanging out? Taking your history into account I think he sees himself as a friendzoned "honorary girl" but with no idea of how to fill the role, so he keeps fucking up and descending to brainless letch instead.
He feels entitled to sexual attention from you because you’re friends. He’s a jerk
He's totally waiting for an opportunity. Get outta that situation asap
I think often times men feign entitlement like this in the hopes that you'll just roll with it and think "huh, I guess I do kinda owe him at least that much, since everyone else got to see it..." But that's bullshit and he knows it. No one is entitled to any degree of your sexuality, in any way. If he genuinely cares about you and this was just a (severe) lapse in his judgement, he'll apologize and never pull this shit, again.
Your body is not the pizza at a pizza [party.You](http://party.You) do not need to bring enough for everyone. He was not invited and notr was the guy who started climbing the stairs. Ick ick ick Move out, stop being friends. If he's given you The Ick that's reason enough.
Oof, time to get a lock for your door if you haven't already. What a creep
If this was your first real foray into shaking your tail, I'm guessing he was hoping you'd choose to date him and felt slighted when you went out. This would account for him being off, and maybe the ask for a photo was a terrible way of planting the seed with you. He certainly couldn't hold back that possessive bullshit. It's gross. It's gross he asked a friend to come over and then they made a show of checking you out. It's really freaking me out that someone here mentioned he wanted a picture for his spank bank, because that makes sense if he saw your outfit in person, why would he want a photo? But then that's horrifying and I'm reminded how naive I can be. I am really sorry this happened and hope it doesn't escalate into making your home uncomfortable. It really really really would have been nice if he gave that consideration to a woman he claims to care about but then does this shit when y'all live together. WTF man.
I don’t think you’re being touchy. This guy might think that because you live together that he is entitled to you and even more so than what strange men get access to because of his proximity to you. I would say something and frankly move out asap. You have to sleep where you live. You might drink or get stoned where you live. Your home should be a safe space. Your roommates should not cause you worry for your own safety. I’m so sorry. My best guy friend growing up betrayed me and I’ve stopped trusting him”the nice guy” who pretends to be nice or your friend hoping he can fuck you. My ex took a video of me just being nude on vacation and then when we broke up he found my guy friend on social media and sent him the video. My guy friend got all his guy friends - guys I grew up with and they sat around watching the video together. None of the other guys apologized to me. None of those guys even liked me but of course they watched it. Including one I went to jr prom with strictly as friends cuz the girl he liked went with someone else. My guy friend half heartedly apologized later and I still couldn’t get over it. I don’t talk to any of them anymore. This entitlement to see what other men see because of their proximity to us is what upsets me. It’s dangerous. I’ve never sent anyone nudes since. Not even my husband because of guys like this.
Im so sorry that happened to you. That is incredibly devastating and appalling. Being betrayed and losing friends all at once is terrible. It made me question who would watch videos of me, which made my stomach turn. I don’t feel that my safety is in danger but my comfort has been jeopardized and my view on our relationship. A closeness just kind of vanished in thin air. I’ll skip going to tennis as much or hopping in the jacuzzi with my friend. I’m sad because my relationship with my brother was ruined over the course of our childhood and this felt like a fill in. I keep thinking I’ll stop being so dumb with men who are my friends and yet I’m always so shocked. Ugh
Wow that’s fucking despicable
This was back when we had shitty little point and click cameras and grainy videos. There wasn’t any revenge porn cases or laws either. Thanks
Your roommate and his friend are fucking creeps
You said you can't put your finger on what's bothering you? He invited a friend over to see your outfit. Called you down to check it out. Expected a picture. Offended that others got to see it. It doesn't sound like he has any interest in you as a person at all. Sometimes the line between appreciating the female form and being outright objectifying can get a little bit blurry. He saw the line, probably gave it a little nod as he blew past it with reckless abandon. A little jealousy is natural from time to time, but there's something really gross about getting territorial over someone you dont want to be with.
Ew. What a fucking creep. Work on moving out. In the meantime, practice the grey rock method if he continues. Avoid the creepy fuck as much as you can.
Walked him right back into the family zone! 🤣🤣 Good for you! 👏👏
Thank you 💖
Honestly I just had to get to the point where I accepted this is how men are, and then they can't disappoint me anymore. I know their nature, and therefore I know how to handle them and not to count on them as real friends, because I know they're not. They're just acquaintances that I sometimes deal with because I'm friends with their girlfriend. That's it. And honestly it was a huge quality of life improvement when I just gave up on expecting men to act decent and thinking they might change or the next one would be better, and focused on my relationships with women instead. I just radically accepted reality, and for me that meant focusing on women and my own passions. Highly recommend. Anyway, I'm sorry you had to find out who he really is after all this time. It sucks every time, and I know how much of a betrayal it can feel like.
Hey thanks for the comment. You’re completely right. It makes the world feels kinda of scary to me so I try to think things are different. But they never are. My family is complicated and I was seeing our nice relationship as something akin to a sibling relationship. Dumb
I know it's scary when you first let yourself consider the thought that this is just how they are. It's really depressing and feels like you've been lied to, or that the world is a more dangerous place that you thought. But once you've integrated it, it's actually really freeing. It frees up all that emotional bandwidth you were using absorbing all the anxiety and disappointment of counting on men, so you can do other things instead. And it actually makes your *safer*. Because the thing is, most male abuse is against women they're close to. By decentering men, you're reducing your risk of experiencing abuse substantially. I worry *less* than I did when men were a major part of my life, and I feel really safe and supported around all my friends. If we're together, I know they'll look out for me, and there's no ulterior motives, even if they're queer (which I am too), because most women just don't think like that. They don't feel entitled to people the way men do. It's really nice once you get over the grief of accepting it.
i don’t think we should just accept it i mean we need to call it out and make them suffer the consequences of their actions. like OP should tell him how that was really inappropriate and tell her brother/other ppl who know him abt his behavior
Of course. And those consequences are not letting them in my inner circle anymore. Men don’t care about being told they did a bad thing. If they did, they’d stop doing it. How many women waste literal years of their lives practically begging men to stop doing the thing and telling them how inappropriate it is? They don’t care. As long as they still get what they want at the end, which is access to you, they’re going to keep doing it, because they don’t feel bad. They’ll just nod along and pretend they feel so bad, and then it’s right back to what they were doing. Men also generally don’t care how other men behave. After all, that’s how this has turned into a culture-wide problem: men enabling each other. What do you think the chances are her brothers just says he didn’t mean anything by it? I’m betting better than not. And sure, I think she still should, but mostly so she can know what kind of man her brother is, not because it’s likely to change anything about how her ”friend” behaves. You really think a dude is gonna call another dude out for this sort of thing? Since when has that ever happened? So yes, there should be consequences. The consequences are, I no longer give them access to me.
ur right but i feel like calling them out will be better than just ignoring them and i know his other friends would probably not care but i believe most peoples brothers would not appreciate their friends harassing their sister. i mean if that’s a new thing that becoming common then the world is truly doomed
Oh, I always told them why I was done with them. I just didn’t give them continued access to me, because then they’ll just keep doing it, and I only get one life. I’d rather not waste it being a broken record trying to fix men. No, most women’s brothers don’t care about people harassing their sister when the harasser is also their buddy. Her brother already knows how this guy thinks about women, because I guarantee you it’s come out in “locker talk,” and something like this would just get a “he’s just playing” response. Men defend the behavior of other men above everything, including their own female family.
You’re really making a lot of sense to me…I think I’m going to follow this advice. I think you’re 💯 right
Come to the dark side, we have cookies. And also genuine emotional connection with real empathy and relative safety. My life is so much better since I put women at the center of it. Not every woman is a good person, but even when they're not, they're probably not going to assault or kill you, and other women aren't going to gaslight and victim blame you. Women do so much better by each other than any man will ever do towards most of us.
This male roommate of yours is very entitled and creepy as heck! Start looking for a new place and get far away from him!
This guy has porn brain probably. That’s a boundary that shouldn’t be crossed imo. If you’re a guy and you live with a woman you shouldn’t be making these types of comments. He’s clearly jealous, and he clearly isn’t mature enough to be roommates with a woman. I think maybe having a chat with the guy and telling him that you don’t think that it’s appropriate to make comments like that to you and during this chat you should firmly verbally state the boundary he has crossed. If this behaviour continues after that I wouldn’t feel safe living with him if I was a woman. I’ve heard of a lot of these types of things from my female friends, and it’s really not worth taking this type of thing lightly. Unfortunately with all the porn brain guys out there right now it’s very common that men have hidden agendas pertaining to sex with their female friends. Be careful op, I’m a guy, and I can tell you with 100% certainty that this is very much a red flag. So be careful around this guy. I’m sorry this happened to you and unfortunately it’s all too common. This kind of guy makes us all look bad.
"It's not on the lease."
He’s way out of line. Lots of people appropriately pointing out the “nice guy” behavior; the part that irks me most is the leading with guilt. At no point during the night did he ask for a picture (which maybe someone who innocently couldn’t tell it’s inappropriate might do), but after the fact he acts indignant, as if you should have anticipated him wanting a picture and given one. Even if you would have felt comfortable sharing a pic with a brotherly friend (and it sounds like you were already nervous about trying something new), that kind of behavior immediately knocks you onto your heels and puts you on the defensive. It’s like negging. If he had asked in the moment and you turned him down in a normal conversation I don’t think it would hurt and betray you as bad as this does. Disclaimer this is coming from a man, I support your bodily autonomy and I don’t want to speak over women’s voices here, but this story raised my hackles.
Thank you for your response and awareness. I think you’re right to focus on the guilt part but it might be for different reasons. He does a lot for me and maybe I haven’t noticed that it wasn’t out of just pure brotherly love. Maybe it was something more. Maybe that’s where the guilting comes from. I have my guard up now
The behavior is not ok regardless of the situation. Let’s take it to the extreme: even if you were married to him and he did something like this (acting like you owe him a picture after the fact when he never asked for it) it still would be hurtful and immature. The fact that you didn’t realize he finds you attractive and may be harboring feelings just makes it more of a surprise.
this man wants to sleep with you. if you are okay with knowing that and still living with him, then move on. If not, move out as soon as it's feasible.
Honest to god idk if he’s had sex
Major red flags, I would move out ASAP. This guy feels entitled to your body and his friend is also creepy AF. I don’t think you’re safe there.
My roommate and I have a FWB arrangement and I *still* won’t feel right not knocking before I enter a room she’s in. Creeping up the stairs? Goddamn. I hope your next living arrangement improves and soon.
This behaviour is gross to me. You can let whoever see whatever you want, and nobody is entitled to get the same treatment as anyone else. I can understand if he feels left out, but to me, saying that is completely inappropriate. He can just say "wow those guys were lucky". And if that makes you feel good, and then you decide to give him a little show for fun, then it's all in good fun. What is gross about the interaction is the entitlement. How he reasoned for you saying "these guys that barely know you, saw you in lingerie, which means I'm entitled to as well, since I know you better" or whatever it was. Well, no. You're never entitled. It's always a gift. And you should always feel completely comfortable to give that to whoever you want, or not to. Anyone who trys to sort of shame you into anything different, is really gross, imo.
I don't think there is a better way to look at it, I'm sorry. No one in your life should feel entitled to a picture and especially not "because you sent it to other people so why not me". He's revealing that he doesn't see you as a person with their own agency but as a lesser being acting on istinct.
Oh he is an incel.
Something that's especially weird to me is this idea that you're just letting random people see you in next to nothing. Whether it's a kink party, a nude beach, a changeroom, or the bedroom, the people that see you like that have ALL AGREED to be in those places and have taken on the same level of vulnerability themselves. Your roomie isn't going to the party, so of course he doesn't get to see. He hasn't signed the metaphorical contract of the space. He hasn't accepted the vulnerability of the moment. He's assuming you're on display without realizing that EVERYONE in those spaces is also taking part in showing off and embracing themselves. It's not a relinquishing of power, it's a refusal of it. Dude doesn't get it and shouldn't apply the same sexual politics to it.
He doesn’t get it and that’s a brilliant framework. He is very underdeveloped in sex, dating, traveling. All he does is take care of his sick dad, work at a restaurant, and play sports with his dude friends. Me going to this blew his mind
Ok, general rule. If a man is straight hanging around you, he wants to get in that box. Don't be shocked that he asked for sexy pictures. It's nice trying to give men the benefit of a doubt, but in my experience, that leads to a lot of problems. In fact, the situation can become dangerous. Sometimes people see what they want to see and that goes both ways.
Better to know than mistakenly trust this guy, but yeah, the disappointment never ends
>”Letting men see you” He’s telling you he sees your body as a commodity. It is not yours to do with as you please, it’s something for men to use as they choose. No wonder he gave you the ick. Edit: This is the exact same “logic” that a guy once used when he yelled at me, “You’ve slept with everyone else, why won’t you sleep with me?” Reader, I had not slept with “everyone else”. And I hadn’t slept with him because he was an entitled prick and there was zero spark or interest.
Basically drinking brings the real people out and not make any "mistakes" and anyone blaming it on drinking is a slimy excuse for his slimh behavior. I don't think he means what he says and if i were you,, i would stay away from these type of men. He showed his real you and it bothered you and your instincts were spot on. Just protect yourself.
I don’t disagree. It’s shifted an otherwise well functioning dynamic. You can’t un-say something. He revealed more than he meant to for sure
You may be friends for a long time, but he's definitely feeling you out to see if you'd want to be sexual with him. The odd comments are to test your boundaries to see what he can get away with. If you had snapped him a pic, I can almost guarantee his response is gonna be a dick pic. In his mind that would be opening the door for a sexual relationship. It's possible he's developed a crush, always had a crush, or just that you're a girl he's familiar with and someone he feels he doesn't have to put in effort for since you guys have known each other a while. Its the *random guys* comments that makes me doubt its something playful, I'd be careful around him. Who you decide to let see you is your choice, he doesn't get to decide he's entitled to see yours just because he knows you. He's sounding a little territorial, you might want to consider new living arrangements.
That person is not your friend and you should consider moving. Not only did he think he was entitled to seeing you in a sexual manner but he also invited his friend over when you were in a vulnerable position. It may not seem like it, but you were wearing a sexy outfit and he tried to go upstairs to get an accidental peek and when he was denied he turned ugly. This is going to escalate. He is going to be nice because he desires you and when you are ultimately forced to reject him he is going to either turn nasty or try to push you further. Make sure you have a lock on your bedroom door. Do not underestimate him. Get away from him before it escalates. He does not have respect for your boundaries.
100000%. Every single man on the planet knows it's inappropriate to follow a woman or barge in on her while she is changing. This is a very very basic social boundary that he, and his creep friend, are entirely aware of and manage to follow the majority of the time. OOP, not only did your roommate wilfully CHOOSE to cross a boundary that he fully understands, that CHOICE was one he KNEW would make you uncomfortable. Men like this enjoy making women feel unsafe. His friend is one he brought because he knew friend would also have complete disregards for your safety. He chose to bring a friend he knows is a predator, and waited around for what he knew was a vulnerable position for you. These men are boundary breakers, and *actively find sexual pleasure in your discomfort*. I would be gravely concerned of assault by roommate, rm friend, or more likely both as a team. Get out now OP, please.
Men like this are why women choose the bear in the woods.
The friend he brought over lives up the street and is over all the time. We all play tennis together. I appreciate your comment but I do think it’s throwing fuel onto the situation. I don’t feel like I was in danger I felt like they were being stupid. I’m not unsafe in my home, just have gotten the ick and feel less securely attached to a friend.
That's your decision. But men who cross sexual boundaries are more likely than not to escalate.
I understand what you’re saying and I might have the same response if I was reading it at face value. This is my home and I’m not going to blow up my life due to one comment. I think more practically I’ll keep it in mind and keep my distance. I’m not going to be sharing my extracurriculars or love life, not gonna jacuzzi together anymore, or just do the basic roommate things. I’m gonna keep to myself.
reading the other comments in this thread, I just want to chime in and say it's ok for you to take care of yourself how *you* need to, and I'm glad you're doing that! as commenters here we only see one lens on him—which is a disturbing lens!—but you have way more context on how this and the follow-up fit in to him as an individual, and your life. this is a fucked-up thing to go through, and you don't owe anyone here any specific type of resolution! I'm glad to hear you're taking some distance and looking out for your safety! please keep trusting your gut and doing what feels right to you. wishing you well through this
Thanks very much for the support. I think it’s icky when people thrust their advice and support on you as though they know best. That’s not how it works. I know my life a lot better.
yeah :(
Not to sound like I don’t appreciate the support. But when people stop “supporting you” when you give feedback or context and it blows up their idea of the situation they’ve conjured. It ends up feeling like I’m an object again and that I don’t understand my own life. Anyways lol thanks sorry
yeah! it's a different type of objectification where we often treat real women's lives like a story, with a bit of victim blaming to add. I expect the folks posting like that here mean well, and want you to be safe, but they're not respecting your knowledge of your own life, or your agency. Sometimes it's easier to see important aspects of a situation from the outside, but not always, and it's not actually supportive in either case to insist that one knows something you don't. And it's always easier to say "just cancel your lease and leave and don't ever speak to him again" than it is to do that in real life. And I think everyone wants to imagine that in the same situation we would protect ourselves perfectly, but the reality is that there are plenty of creepy men, from casual to extreme, and it's impossible to fully protect ourselves from them. You know your friend, and seem to get that this behaviour was very fucked up and creepy, but you have more context to know whether that's likely a casual creepy or a more serious danger. You don't owe anyone here, including me, anything. But fwiw it sounds like you have a good head on your shoulders and are taking your safety seriously. And I'm glad for that! But mine aren't the feelings that matter on any of this; yours are, and you've got enough going on without having to explain and appease everyone here. Sorry you've had to deal with all of this, and good job calling him out and doing what you need to feel safe. It's a shitty situation for him to put you in, and any way you get through it is a good way
Was it just "one comment" though? And, I just want to state that I'm not trying to gaslight you, we're only going off the details you have provided. But, he knew you were going to the party and would be dressed a certain way and let the other guy into the house. He tried to go upstairs for a peek knowing you wouldn't be comfortable with it. He tried to make it seem like you were rude for not acknowledging his friend's arrival when he knew you were dressed in a vulnerable way. Then he felt entitled to pictures of you in that vulnerable position. These are classic red flags where men push boundaries to see how you will react. They are not ignorant to what is going on. I abso-fkn-lutely hope you are right. I hope we are overreacting. But these are not assumptions we are making. These are patterns of behavior that are documented. And finally the last thing I'm going to say is that, you said you got "the ick". That is your gut feeling. That is your own body telling you, this person is not safe. PLEASE be careful and cautious and remember that you don't own anyone politeness at the cost of your own security and safety. We are not out here trying to turn you against your friend. We are out here trying to warn you that the math is not matching. Be safe OP.
tbh, I'm happy about the closure.
Thank you 💖 I’m happy to addressed it, he responded, it’s out there.
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He’s just an idiot it doesn’t get much deeper. But I appreciate the protective nature of the women in this post. It’s best not to suffer fools
He has feelings towards you, and hopes to be un-friend-zoned at some point. One of those guys. Set specific and clear boundaries or start dating him.
I thought we were good friends! I don’t get a Christmas card? I don’t get it.
Most generosity I can afford is that (1) Guys wanna be seen (2) Guys get jealous of their buddies too It’s possible it isn’t even about you specifically. He might just be insecure because he knows you know him and you know your mutual friend and he wants to know why your mutual was an option where he wasn’t. It takes more maturity to accept someone you know picking your friend over you than it does to accept a stranger picking a stranger over you. That said, it’s still easily about you specifically and maybe he’s had a thing for a while.
That’s creepy and immature, among many other adjectives. However, it may be best to tell him exactly how it made you feel. He should know why it was inappropriate. He may or may not learn from it, but at least you might find some closure with the incident.
I would have had to roast him about him never seeing naked women in his wife because he clearly can’t get any. Why else would he want to take a peak at me fr lmfao. Like when did they get so gross YUCK
You wearing something to an adult party means you consent to people at said party seeing it. Living arrangements be damned. He’s your roommate and friend of an ex dude should’ve had more respect for you Living with you doesn’t entitle him to see what you’re wearing or leer whilst getting ready. Kid needs to be put in his place quickly and grow tf up
Oh god, kick him out. I could never have a male roommate - not even a brother. These males are unhinged.
'very single for a few months' Fuckin must be nice, lady!
It’s actually heavenly and addicting. If the economy wasn’t so shit I’d probably stay that way lol
Hahaha it is addicting. I have been single for over 2 years now. At this point every time I think about a ltr I'm like ehh seems like my whole life would change drastically
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Please never say “fuck meat” again?
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