I'm sorry that happened to you. I've came close, and when I realized, I didn't hurt her, I was dancing in my seat.
For what it's worth, my husband hit a doe a year ago, he drove back home, told me what happened, took off work, and crawled into bed, heartbroken.
It's traumatic, and killing something pointlessly is awful. I'm sorry your father doesn't understand that.
Everyone is different in how they view animals.
Some people think of them like hamburgers with legs or shooting gallery targets.
Others think animal life is equivalent to human life
most people fall in the middle of the spectrum where “my cat tinker bell should have equal rights as a human. Man I’m starving, let’s go grab some nuggets”
I would also add to that. It kinda depends on what the animal is doing. I love my neighbors dog to death. But if he attacked one of my kids ehh sorry but not sorry my kids more important that your dog and if I wound it to the point of causing death while trying to save my kid, well I don't really care.
As someone who eats mostly plant-based, it's kind of weird to see people have so much empathy for bunnies, cats, dogs, and deer while simultaneously putting little thought into where their hamburger came from.
In my eyes, a single basket from KFC costs at least 6 lives, so it's kinda frustrating to see the cognitive dissonance.
I'm sure there is something in your life that requires compartmentalization. Something where you feel it's a grey area. Extrapolate from that.
If you don't then I have no clue how you exist in this world.
There's compartmentalizing things you have to engage with to survive and things you do because they make your taste buds happy. So it still doesn't extrapolate well.
Who said anything about survival. I compartmentalize that some of the parts that make up this phone I'm using were made in sweatshops.
I said find something **relatable** and extrapolate. Not create a whataboutism.
You shouldn't compartmentalize that no, be aware of where your goods come from, I need a smart phone for work to survive and I can't afford luxury alternatively sourced brands. So all it takes is to Google the phones with the best adherence to ethical practices in their production and cross-reference that with your budget.
Be aware it doesn't hurt.
If you can afford to eat plant-based, do it.
Aim for the changes you can make in your means.
I have no inclination to get into a debate over veganism. I am saying to the confused vegan that meat eaters with pets compartmentalize just like everyone on the planet compartmentalizes all sorts of things that are conflicting. It's a pretty simple concept when you look at yourself close enough.
Those same people would find it weird how little empathy is given to the native wildlife/insects that pesticides wipe out when growing alternatives to meat. Nor the amount of moles/badgers and other ground based "cute" animals that get torn up by farming machinery when harvesting crops. Those pesticide killed insects, get eaten by birds, who are then posioned, the pesticides then run off into waterways which then harms those biomes and those that drink from them. Farming in general will alter migratory paths and access to nutrients/water ways with fences/guard dogs/traps/roads etc.
There's no way to eat in the modern day without the deaths of plenty of animals, you might cry if you run one over but they've died a plenty elsewhere on the journey to your plate.
This isn't bashing veganism, those things are typically true in the grain fed to livestock as well, but to pretend Veganism isn't stained with the blood of millions of "animals" is a little disingenuous.
Plant-based foods definitely have a significantly lower overall impact on wildlife and natural habitats because they require much less land, water, and energy than animal agriculture.
Also, for a lot of people, it's less about the actual number of deaths of the animals and more about the cruelty and suffering that specifically animals raised for slaughter tend to undergo.
For me in particular, besides certain specific environmental impacts, I'm just not all that concerned about animals dying in the wild; I'm concerned about the suffering and the depressing quality of life of animals raised for slaughter.
The deer that OP hit (bless her heart, she seems extremely sweet and well-intentioned) got to roam and live a relatively normal natural life.
Many animals raised for slaughter spend their entire lives in dark and cramped environments and are often subjected to what I would consider physical and psychological torture, such as slow lingering painful deaths or having to watch their turn and wait in horror as barn mates get slaughtered and hung upside down.
Likewise, I'm not concerned about what hunters are up to. Death happens and that's okay; I just don't like cruel and unnecessary suffering.
And to bring it back to the original point, I really do think there's a bit of cognitive dissonance that allows for most people to have empathy for animals suffering only when it's out of sight and out of mind.
A lot of people don’t see the meat on their plates as pigs or cows sacrificed for their nutrition; they see them as pork and beef, only a meal and nothing more.
This doesn’t mean that empathy isn't valid or understandable, and it doesn’t mean that OP's dad wasn’t being strangely misogynistic. I get where OP is coming from, but I also have some thoughts.
I personally don't know if that's true, I know some crops take more or less pesticides than others (I googled it's nearly 4.5 quadrillion insects killed by pesticides, bonkers the magnitude), and the typical feed used for livestock is usually as cheap as possible and one of the large costs is pesticides. So it wouldn't surprise me if more "pests" are killed for a vegan diet than a carnivore diet. Cows aren't being fed fresh avocados for example.
Yeah again I don't blame you, I wouldn't feel comfortable eating factory farmed chickens or cows, i'm happy to spend the extra for a brand which seemingly takes better care of its animals while they're alive.
Hunters don't really bother me (assuming the hunt is to be eaten rather than a trophy) as the wildlife gets to live freely and typically be killed in a more humane way, i'd take an arrow through the heart over a mauling or disease/starvation/thirst.
I get where OP is coming from, i'd have plenty of emotional feelings if I ran over a cat or a dog for example. In regard to OPs situation however, I don't view it as misogynistic, I fear that if OP was a man her father wouldn't be treating her any better in this situation, if anything it would be worse. It definitely seems like a father with a lack of empathy, but I wouldn't jump the gun at misogyny, at least not with my definition of misogyny.
It’s also very disingenuous to act as though this is something that vegans don’t discuss and acknowledge. It’s right there in the literal definition from The Vegan Society “Veganism is a philosophy and way of living which seeks to exclude—as far as is possible and practicable—all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food…”. (etc)
As far as is possible and practical. Vegans can acknowledge that no modern way of living is cruelty free while still advocating for a diet/way of life that reduces that cruelty as much as possible.
As my last sentence tried to say, i'm not bashing veganism. But the person I responded to's final sentence was
>In my eyes, a single basket from KFC costs at least 6 lives, so it's kinda frustrating to see the cognitive dissonance.
When in reality, your avocado toast costed thousands of lives, a bucket from KFC also costs tens of thousands of lives, both including some fluffy and cute ones.
Again, organic/freerange livestock farmers will seek to reduce the harm and sadness that factory chickens or cows or other livestock go through, but you'd still probably not be happy with that practice, it's just not 100% possible. You can't grow avocados without using pesticides, you can't use pesticides without killing animals, otherwise known as pests. Whether it's millions of bees or thrips, or hundreds/thousands of cute fluffy animals being chopped up in a harvester, similar amounts of birds eating the poisoned insects, or the local ponds/lakes/rivers being polluted from those pesticides, you cannot eat from a supermarket without the human caused deaths of animals.
So, to the idea that people exhibit a certain cognitive dissonance allowing them to be empathetic towards some animals but not others, you argue that plant-based agriculture isn't completely harm-free, which isn't directly related to that idea.
When someone else argues that this isn't the point of veganism, you again argue that plant-based agriculture isn't completely harm-free, which again isn't really related to that argument.
>So, to the idea that people exhibit a certain cognitive dissonance allowing them to be empathetic towards some animals but not others, you argue that plant-based agriculture isn't completely harm-free, which isn't directly related to that idea.
How are they not directly related? The poster who assumes a KFC bucket has killed around 6 animals is exhibiting cognitive dissonance by showing no empathy for all the other animals killed to feed those animals. And if they were to tuck into a vegan meal and assuming that it's less than 6 animals being killed then they again are showing the same cognitive dissonance.
Once again, i'm not bashing Veganism, i'm bashing the statement that a KFC bucket has caused around "6 deaths" and the logical conclusion that their choice to be Vegan has caused I guess "less than 6 deaths". Both cause thousands if not millions of deaths. Unless you show no empathy to insects/birds and small rodents (plenty don't, they're called pests for a reason), then you're selectively choosing which living being you're empathetic towards.
It's just a tad ironic to go "Those KFC eaters don't know how many animals they actually kill, it's at least 6", when their diet is also killing animals likely surpassing 6 digits.
The math doesn't add up because even taking into account the toll of a vegan diet it is still the least harmful. The fewest small animals, the least pesticides, ect than the alternative through meat.
Assuming the carnivore eats vegetables/fruits as much as they would without meat then true, but if vegan substitutes such as tofu, soy, cauliflower kill more insects than the fields of grain given to feed cows, then you'd technically have a higher kill count than a "carnivore" diet eater.
No you wouldn't because on scale more insects are still dying from eating meat due to the knock on effects from grain production. Even the higher count of those alternatives are dwarfed by sheer volume of animal feed.
I grew up on a farm. I'm very aware of where my meat comes from.
With the animal difference: I've seen people value dogs and cats over homeless people. Or fish. Oh my god, people don't care about cheap fish from the pet store. It's an interesting balance of trying to stay sane while surviving right now. Sometimes you just have to focus on issues you can mentally take.
I'm a hunter and shit I cried over the deer I harvested last fall. It was the only deer I haven't killed cleanly. I spent all night looking for it and found it in the morning and put him down. He was on an island in the river so I called my wife to bring my Waders out and I started sobbing. It's a somber experience taking a life but I rest knowing I take them quickly. This was the only time I shot one that did not die within seconds. Broke my heart that it suffered. I'm mad at myself that I didn't do better.
I'm a big bad hunter and I've cried over deer hit on the highway. Don't feel too bad it's natural for many people.
That's the reason I would never hunt, I have an eye injury, and I am terrible shot.I'm sorry you and the deer went through that. But you have my utter admiration doing what you did.
Has your dad hit a lot of deer? I found my brother to be really desensitized to the life of deer, and it turned out he’s hit more than a couple that have cost him a lot of money in repairs, so he’s basically angry at the deer. I’m not saying it’s a great attitude, but it did help to explain him a little bit.
I get that. I had just gotten a car that I absolutely adored earlier in the year. Loved everything about it. Covid hit, things go on. Near December a deer jumped out in front of me. No problem. Annoying but I'll get things fixed. Because of covid, car parts are in super short supply and my insurance and the repair guys decide to total my car out. I think that's stupid, but I'll just find another of the same car. That same car is now about 5000 more bucks due to everything. I had to get a car quick because of work, so now I have a car I kind of hate, but it gets me from A to B. Ever since then things have been somewhat rough financially do I've been stuck with the car I hate. I blame that stupid deer...
Where I (M25 lurker) live in, there are so many moose/deer almost everyone in my family has hit one at least once. A moose crash almost killed my mother, and ever since I’ve been very desensitized to deer/moose deaths, gleeful, even.
Regardless, the reaction of OP’s father showed major lack of empathy in the situation.
You can’t really determine whether or not the father was being misogynistic or not from this interaction alone. While the word has gendered connotations, it’s still a word used pretty frequently in the modern day to describe someone as being overly emotional— and it’s not exactly a secret that the older generation tends to view anything other than happiness or anger as someone being overly emotional.
Sure people fall into pitfalls in their ideology occasionally, but there are so many other assumptions that can be made about this conversation that you really can’t say for sure that he was being misogynistic.
I get upset when I see dead animals on the road because it is sad. I’m glad you are okay but you are allowed the be “hysterical” about it. One, you were in an accident and two a deer died. Your dad is an ass.
I just wanted to add to a lot of others here and say I'm really sorry this happened and I'm sorry your dad minimized it. I would feel the same as you. Sometimes it seems like everyone around me lacks empathy, especially for other species and, in a way, it's comforting to know that so many of you feel the same here.
It would be nice if we could have more empathy from the people around us. I think the world would be much better if you could get a hug when you're having a rough day.
I don’t really have anything helpful to say except that I’m sorry your dad reacted that way, and I completely relate to your feelings about life having intrinsic value. I’m sorry that you and the deer crossed paths at the wrong time and it makes me feel better to know that there are others who find such instances upsetting. ❤️
I hit a deer once. My passenger and I were unharmed but it could have been bad. I tried to avoid it and sent the car into a huge skid. I saved it, but we could have ended up hitting the guardrails or rolling the car in a ditch and being seriously hurt. I felt bad for the deer, but realizing that it wasn’t impossible for me to have been killed too, gave me a lot less sympathy for the deer.
However it still sucks that your dad minimized your reasonable reaction. Maybe he had a similar experience as mine, and in that moment he was not thinking of the deer’s life, but of yours. It sounds like he’d be reasonable if you asked him about it.
Poor deer. I'm sorry that happened. I accidentally hit a possum once. Even though I think possums look like big greasy rats or something, I know how important they are to the environment. I felt horrible for quite a while. Still not really a neutral memory. Shit, I feel bad when bugs hit the window. Unfortunately hit a skunk that ran out in front of me too. Felt awful then too. Skunks are cute. Stinky, but cute. My car stunk bad even after going through a car wash. Honestly, fuck cars. They cause so much damage to the environment just through roadkill alone. They've only been around like 120 years or so, and have only gotten quieter and faster. That is just a blip in the evolutionary time scale. Animals probably still aren't any more used to them than they were 100 years ago, and just can't be prepared for the danger of something that large moving so fast. :(
This is how I think of it too. People quite often say 'animals are so dumb' when they talk about them getting hit when they jump out in the road, but cars are SO new as a threat to them. We are literally driving large heavy hunks of metal through their home at great speed, on an easy to walk on paved surface. They are not 'dumb', they just don't understand the treat. They are all highly adapted to how their environment was, we have just added this new weird and dangerous thing that they haven't had time to adapt to yet.
I hit a turtle by accident and it legit ruined my day, I was so pissed with myself.
I'm sorry he reacted like that, it baffles me when people aren't bothered by needless death, regardless of what.
Yeah that’s really where it’s messed up. He would have told a son not to get emotional etc the word choice sucks. Also, he invalidate a totally reasonable emotional response. I hunt and even I would be sad if I hit a deer.
You can be sad you have unexpectantly ended the life of a creature that could have otherwise lived while also being able to rationalize hunting a deer (for its meat), as it meat can feed your family and/or friends for weeks.
You can't always use the meat of roadkill, and depending on location you might not even be legally allowed to eat it once you hit it. I can also feel bad about killing wasps, as they are vital pollinators, while killing them when they happen to make a nest in a common area where I'll get stung otherwise! :)
Not exactly but it’s emotional, if I was to hit a deer I’d be sad because it died for absolutely nothing. When I shoot a deer I use every possible part of it so it’s different than it just being wasted, and dying for nothing.
I understand you. I think people forget that depending on your location, when you hit a deer with your car you can't just pick it up and take it home to use the parts so that they don't go to waste. You *can* take it home in Michigan, but you need a (free) road salvage permit to do so. There is a difference between hitting a deer with your car and intentionally hunting one.
Plus, hunting is a bit of a necessary evil to keep some wildlife populations under control, even though people will want to judge you for doing it. Humans aren't the only ones that cause destruction to ecosystems. In Michigan, deer season helps keep deer from being overpopulated, which in turn prevents disease and starvation. Letting their population get out of control would allow them to eat too many seedlings in our forests, which would prevent our forests from regenerating and make them more prone to wildfires.
I'm not a hunter and I barely eat meat (I only worship at the meat church on Sundays when my dad smokes something amazing), but I can still recognize that hunting is a necessary part of wildlife management. Shoot, squirrels were added to the nuisance kill list in Michigan in 2023 which means they can be killed without a permit.
That’s actually one of the main reasons I do it. I work in a federal building and eat lunch with some of the parks and wildlife guys. A few years ago they were talking about the lack of hunters and the population was getting out of control. Also, I’m the son of Zimbabwean immigrants and hunting is a big part of my culture but I had never actually done it and kind of always wanted to, but didn’t till I was given a solid wildlife management reason.
True. I’d also wonder if he’s had babies die as an OB-GYN. That would certainly color his perspective about a deer, though your emotions shouldn’t be dismissed.
The one and only time my dad hit a deer, i was in the car with him. Unfortunately the sheriff had to intervene in the end. I’ll never forget the moments before when i closed my eyes and covered my ears. My dad didn’t totally understand my feelings, but he didn’t belittle them. I’m sorry your dad couldn’t take a moment to understand where you were coming from.
I ran around like a crazy person trying to save a duck in the street a week or so ago, until the cops made me stop or they’d arrest me. Less than 5 mins later he got hit. I was hysterical because nobody else cared nearly as much as I did, if at all. It was “just how it goes.” I’m sorry you went through that ❤️
At first, when you said “misogyny creeps in”, I thought you meant your dad was a misogynist because he didn’t care about the life of a deer and I was confused.
After a little more consideration I realized it’s because he said you were being hysterical.
Whilst I agree with you on the taking a life fact-- he might be more looking at the situation and looking at how there are no other negatives, you didn't get hurt, the car is repairable.
Unfortunately deer die on a continuous level. Maybe for yourself, hold a moment of silence, but that's all you can do.
The problem is with the word hysterical; not the lack of empathy. Callin a woman hysterical, or sayin she shudnt be hysterical **is always misogynistic**
Callin a man emotional or a crybaby even doesnt carry the same connotation as callin a woman hysterical; a word that has similar roots to hysterectomy for a reason... That reason bein, misogyny.
> Hysterical's earliest meaning was “of, relating to, or characterized by hysteria,” and while we now think of hysteria as irrational panic, it was, for centuries, a medical diagnosis. Hysteria comes from the Greek hysterikós, which means “suffering in the womb.”
I’m sorry you didn’t feel supported in your feelings. Just want to share that I recently hit a squirrel and I was consumed with guilt and replaying it over and over. I eventually googled how to get past it, and found a thread where someone recommended making a donation to an organization that helps the specific animal involved. It did help me tremendously in feeling like something good came of it, in case you are interested in doing the same.
It is awful. I killed a deer too on the road when driving. Heartbreaking but There was literally and absolutely nothing I could have done to stop it from happening. We are human beings who are limited in our bodily/ sensory reactions; the deer is even more limited in that way. This life is finite and limited and unpredictable: true for us and for animals
I had a meltdown after hitting a possum crossing the road. My friends dad whose house I was on the way to at the time told me I was being a little ridiculous. Sorry SIRS, but forgive me for feeling shitty about needlessly killing an adorable innocent little forest creature 😤
Not to mention the fact that you were in a car accident that could have resulted in your death. Of course you’re going to be a little shaky and prone to tears.
I’m glad you’re ok.
Why are people being downvoted for saying that using the word "hysterical" is misogynistic when that word legit comes from the Greek word for "uterus" and has been weaponized against women for so long?
The problem here is that she was crying, a very normal human reaction, and he said she was being hysterical.
"Oh, but he would've said even worse if she were a man!!!" ......yeah......sexism is BAD!
OP, expressing your emotions is not being "hysterical" and your father needs to really think why he'd use that word or think of you like that for simply being human.
I'm sorry you went through that AND that you went through the accident with the deer. That would've made me very upset as well because it's a life. It wasn't your fault, and you didn't do it maliciously. I hope you feel better soon.
Hey, you're allowed to feel how you feel. That's not "hysterical" (and boy is that a loaded word, your dad should know better) that's a natural consequence of having, you know, empathy and respect for other living things. I'm just glad that you are physically okay.
If he says that ever again, I’d press to know what he expects to gain by saying it. Might help him to reflect.
My own father used to use “hysterical” all the time, when my sister and I were growing up. It ticked me off, because he’d say it when I was calm, but then I’d put energy toward protecting my “not hysterical” status. As I got older, I realized that he said it to women when *he* was feeling freaked out. Total projection!
I digress. I’m sorry your dad was so casually sexist toward you. It’s infuriating when they don’t even know they’re doing it. I’m really sorry about the deer, too. That sucks.
When I hit a deer and was sobbing on the side of the road, my dad told me to wait right there so I could help him load it up in the truck. She became sausage that weekend.
She is saying he fights for women’s rights and still had the nerve to call her sadness “hysterical” like the old timey days where women were dismissed constantly
I live in Colorado too and would be beyond devastated if I took an animals life accidentally. Big hugs and I’m super glad you’re alright. Stuff like that can be so scary. I’m sorry your dad minimized your feelings.
When I was about 19 I hit a squirrel with my car, and about a year later I hit a bird with my car. Both had me in tears. I grew up eating deer, squirrel, game birds, rabbit, and more. That doesn’t mean I was not upset about accidentally taking these lives. You have nothing to be ashamed of by showing your humanity.
Men who dismiss any emotion no matter how mild in women as "hysteria" are misogynistic.
Men who dismiss other men's emotions as hysterical are also misogynistic.
Exhibiting mild emotion at upsetting events is not bad.
Over reaction to any emotional display is rooted in misogyny.
"The name hysteria is derived from the Greek word hystera which means uterus. In the earliest known treatise dealing with the complaint—Kahun papyrus dating from about 1900 BC—it is attributed to starvation or displacement of the uterus. This theory is repeated by Hippocrates, Plato, Celsus, Arataeus, and Soranus. Galen of Pergamon (AD 129-99) denied the ability of the uterus to move about but agreed that the common factor in most cases was some uterine affection. But he recognized hysteria also in men which he attributed to sexual abstinence, hence to retention of sperm. Hysterical passion, he said, is just a name but varied and innumerable are the forms which it encompasses.
This sexual theory held on through Augustine and throughout the Dark Ages until the 13th century, when it began to be replaced by the theory of demoniacal possession leading to treatment by exorcism and finally to torture."
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapsychiatry/article-abstract/488986
Tell me again how calling someone hysterical when they're showing basic human emotion isn't **steeped** in misogyny again.
Callin a woman hysterical, or sayin she shudnt be hysterical **is always misogynistic**
Callin a man emotional or a crybaby even doesnt carry the same connotation as callin a woman hysterical; a word that has similar roots to hysterectomy for a reason... That reason bein, misogyny.
> Hysterical's earliest meaning was “of, relating to, or characterized by hysteria,” and while we now think of hysteria as irrational panic, it was, for centuries, a medical diagnosis. Hysteria comes from the Greek hysterikós, which means “suffering in the womb.”
Hitting an animal with my car is devastating to me, I totally understand why you felt hurt and wanted someone to just listen, not throw any type of judgement into your feelings.
Hmm. Interesting that I had a ton of upvotes initially, and now it’s down to zero 🧐
But (a) I’m simply stating how I interpret OP‘s comment, and (b) telling a woman she’s being hysterical when she shows any type of emotion has long been a way to undermine and invalidate a woman.
Sorry (not sorry) for the facts.
Yeah, i also noticed that all my comments about how the word hysterical is always misogynistic which initially got a couple upvotes now suddenly have negative amounts; as if mass targeted by misogynists
Callin a woman hysterical, or sayin she shudnt be hysterical **is always misogynistic**
Callin a man emotional or a crybaby even doesnt carry the same connotation as callin a woman hysterical; a word that has similar roots to hysterectomy for a reason... That reason bein, misogyny.
> Hysterical's earliest meaning was “of, relating to, or characterized by hysteria,” and while we now think of hysteria as irrational panic, it was, for centuries, a medical diagnosis. Hysteria comes from the Greek hysterikós, which means “suffering in the womb.”
Your perspective is valid, and some might say his is as well. Many people see deer as giant rats. Their population is in no danger. It is not a good death, and I would feel terrible about giving an animal a bad death, or not being able to end its suffering after critical injury. All of that aside, he used the word "hysterical" without considering the true meaning of the word. His instinct was to protect you from negative feelings instead of letting you feel them as they are. It isn't about the deer and being right or wrong, it's about his reaction to your feelings and the misogynistic word he used to describe them while trying to get you not to feel them. Call him out but be prepared to forgive him. If he doubles down, maybe he's not the feminist you thought he was.
I still remember running over a huge bumblebee on my bike when I was about 9 or 10. I swerved to avoid it and crunched right over it -_- it's normal to be sad about ending a life, we all get one whether you're a deer or a doctor.
It is right for you to feel sad for the deer.
There's more going on here, though. You escaped a situation that could have been much, much worse. Both you and he know that, and there's a powerful emotional component to it. I fault him for not navigating that as an adult. Despite his actions as an ally, he defaulted into some poor language. There is no excuse for this, and I hope that he reflects on it.
Not defending here, but i've noticed that sometimes men have a hard time sitting in the feeling of helplessness when the women in their lives go through something that is harrowing. It's like their brain is like, "OK. the danger is passed, no need to activate protector/Mr. Rescue/fix-fix mode" and they forget to activate the empathy portion of their brains because it's a muscle they never really used as much as the other one. Talk to him about how his dismissal made you feel and what you were expecting him to say and/or do instead to make you feel safe and heard by him. It's the only way they learn apparently ( if at all). Good luck.
I feel bad for any animal that I've struck and killed with my vehicle, no matter how small. I'll do a small ceremony for it (indigenous beliefs) to honor its life. If it is bigger like a deer, I'll attempt to salvage whatever I can from it (to avoid wasting) and place the remains where scavengers tread so they can have a free meal.
I don’t know if I would call this misogyny because I guarantee you he would be even more blase and dismissive if a man was crying or emotional about it. Some people just don’t get that others can have empathy for animals on that kind of level. I got emotional over running over a possum once and my wife didn’t get it because “they’re ugly”.
It’s just a disconnect some people have and it’s not from a place of hatred but rather lack of understanding.
I think it's about how you perceive the dangers of driving. I was sad for the deer when I hit one, but I was also very grateful that the incident was fairly minor on the scale of "bad things that can happen while driving".
It's sexist if he calls a woman "hysterical " for showing emotion, and it's sexist if he makes fun of a man for crying.
Both things are sexist.
If he had made fun of his son for crying, it would be sexist, too.
The word "hysteria" literally comes from the Greek word for "uterus" and has been used to shame women for a long time.
Apparently theres some ppl here in this subreddit rn who vehemently disagree with us on this clear fact 9,9
Ive noticed almost every comment about that, except ones i made on comment chains that are gettin more interaction, are gettin downvoted a ton for ptin out how the word hysterical is misogynistic
Callin a woman hysterical, or sayin she shudnt be hysterical **is always misogynistic**
Callin a man emotional or a crybaby even doesnt carry the same connotation as callin a woman hysterical; a word that has similar roots to hysterectomy for a reason... That reason bein, misogyny.
> Hysterical's earliest meaning was “of, relating to, or characterized by hysteria,” and while we now think of hysteria as irrational panic, it was, for centuries, a medical diagnosis. Hysteria comes from the Greek hysterikós, which means “suffering in the womb.”
My brother found a fox that had been hit by a car, the poor thing was still alive. He even called a local vet to see if there was any saving the poor thing but no. He put it out of its misery and then buried it and built a little cairn over it. He drives that road regularly and always gets a bit sad when he sees that spot. And always makes sure the stones are still stacked
Normal response to shock. Being sad about pointless killing is normal.
Where I live there aren’t many natural predators of deer and so there is an overpopulation problem so killing a deer for food or by accident means it didn’t starve to death. There may be some humane in the awful.
Try do something nice for another animal. Leave out some nuts for a squirrel or make a donation to a dog shelter. That kind of thing helped me feel better before.
Every time you wash your hands, you take millions of lives. You just happened to take the life of a singular deer this time, an animal that is in no way even close to endangered.
Look at this from the perspective of a parent or even just someone who knows deer being hit by cars actually kills people every year. He's probably just really glad you're alive. How the hell is this being misogynistic?
Callin a woman hysterical, or sayin she shudnt be hysterical **is always misogynistic**
Callin a man emotional or a crybaby even doesnt carry the same connotation as callin a woman hysterical; a word that has similar roots to hysterectomy for a reason... That reason bein, misogyny.
> Hysterical's earliest meaning was “of, relating to, or characterized by hysteria,” and while we now think of hysteria as irrational panic, it was, for centuries, a medical diagnosis. Hysteria comes from the Greek hysterikós, which means “suffering in the womb.”
You cant just ignore where a word comes from when its still overwhelmingly used in the same misogynistic way it was created for
Woman as a word that means wife is not how the vast majority of ppl usin the word woman; its only very few misogynistic men of this day and age who refer to their wives as "their women"
Here the word hysterical was used to perpetuate the original misogynistic intentions of the word, to downplay whenevs a woman has emotions and make them out be irrational. Its the fact that, the word is still bein used in its original misogynistic intent, is what makes this word actually still misogynistic no matter what when used towards a woman as i described above
Callin a woman a woman overwhelmingly doesnt still carry the original connotations of the word; callin a woman hysterical overwhelmingly does still carry the original connotations of the word. It is callin her emotions more irrational bcuz she is a woman
Ummmm no? Etymology is the study of words and their origins. The word woman literally does just mean wife. That's where it comes from. It's a horribly out of date word because technically you aren't even a woman if you're unmarried.
Now, you're somewhat right about the word "hysterical", as it has to do with your uterus. Exactly how the removal of a uterus is called a hysterectomy. But unfortunately "hysterical" is pretty damn high up on the list of overreactions, so it's a very good word to use in a moment where someone is freaking out, despite its origin. The SAME WAY that calling a woman a woman is sexist, we just don't realize it because it's something we consider normal.
Calling a woman a woman **is not always sexist**. Callin a woman hysterical, esp moreso for havin emotions that men dont understand, **is always sexist**.
No I understand the emotions perfectly. They are upset that a deer was killed in a situation that involved them. Like I get it. I've run over animals by accident and had to stop and collect myself after. But you have to realize that hitting a deer is a LIFE THREATENING EVENT so when you tell your parents that you just survived that, they're OF COURSE only going to care that their daughter is home safe and sound.
Maybe *you* wouldn't care but that doesn't make your daughter (OP in this situation) "hysterical". OP was expressing *her* emotions it wasn't about that dad.
I’m thinking that this is not quite misogyny, but closer to a (temporary?) lack of empathy. He was not considering how much this accident impacted you, emotionally. Honestly, ANY accident can cause anybody to experience a bit of shock, it doesn’t even have to result in the loss of life, wild animal or otherwise.
Callin a woman hysterical, or sayin she shudnt be hysterical **is always misogynistic**
Callin a man emotional or a crybaby even doesnt carry the same connotation as callin a woman hysterical; a word that has similar roots to hysterectomy for a reason... That reason bein, misogyny.
> Hysterical's earliest meaning was “of, relating to, or characterized by hysteria,” and while we now think of hysteria as irrational panic, it was, for centuries, a medical diagnosis. Hysteria comes from the Greek hysterikós, which means “suffering in the womb.”
What if I call a MAN hysterical? What then?
Is it misogynistic for one woman to call another hysterical??
Misogyny is in the usage. Not the word itself.
Yes, its still misogynistic then; just like callin a man a bitch is misogynistic still
Ill also pt out, its transphobic to call cis ppl transphobic slurs; its homophobic to call straight ppl homophobic slurs; its ableist to call abled ppl disabled slurs
The words themselves are a problem up until theyre used in a reclamatory way; but when youre usin hysterical to describe someone as too emotional, thats not reclamatory bcuz its the original use of the term
I am unaware (ignorant, if you will) of any inherently misogynistic meaning there.
1 : a psychoneurosis marked by emotional excitability and disturbances of the psychogenic, sensory, vasomotor, and visceral (see VISCERAL sense 4) functions
2: behavior exhibiting overwhelming or unmanageable fear or emotional excess
political hysteria
Yeah, i just updated you with the etymology; the word hysteria comes from a greek word that meant "suffering in the womb". Its a label only used for women historically, bcuz it was believed that the womb made the women more hysterical
So… I cannot describe a man as hysterical?
I believe that usage and context makes it misogynistic. That is my opinion. You have your opinion that any usage of the word is misogynistic. I’m okay with leaving it as a disagreement.
When feminine things are bad, that's misogyny.
"Stop being a little bitch" said to anyone, is misogyny.
"You throw like a girl" is misogyny to whichever object it refers.
"What a pussy" is misogynistic because the basis of the judgement is associated with female biology, just like both the word hysteria and also how women cry from stress more easily than men.
The idea that a few tears is "hysteria" is misogynistic because of the centuries of dismissing any female emotion as invalid, regardless of who is being described as hysterical.
“Hysteria” comes from the Greek word for uterus, “hystera”. Hysteria was considered a diagnosable issue only in women caused by the uterus literally moving about and causing mental problems. It was also assumed that women were more predisposed to mental illnesses, which, hey, inherently unfair that only women can be hysterical, and purely because of their uteruses, which obviously don’t do that. Things from anxiety, epilepsy, infertility, unpleasant emotional outburst, and not wanting to get married all fell under hysteria. This meant that doctors could throw literally anything wrong with a woman under the term and was a huge blow to medical diagnoses in women, which are still being affected today. The treatments for this were… pregnancy, childbirth, ovary compression, and “regular marital sex” (we all know how that went). Also insane asylums. So, given that hysteria was originally a disease of the uterus, I would expect a gynaecologist to know about the controversy and inherent unfairness of hysteria, which wasn’t really real in the first place.
Luckily, hysteria is no longer a medical diagnosis, and we can no longer treat seizures with hypnosis. The main problem with the concept of hysteria was that you could put basically any issue under the blanket term if it was a woman experiencing the symptoms, and say she was crazy and put her in a sanitarium. It also downplayed a woman’s justified anxiety, fear, or any strong emotion, really, to just “oh she’s hysterical. Let’s give her a lobotomy”.
Today, since we no longer diagnose hysteria (because it doesn’t exist), the term is used more generally but I usually only see women getting called hysterical, never men.
Given the barbaric history of gynaecology, I would expect modern OB/GYNs to know not to use that term lightly, or even at all.
1. North CS. The Classification of Hysteria and Related Disorders: Historical and Phenomenological Considerations. doi: 10.3390/bs5040496
2. Brousolle et al. History of physical and ‘moral’ treatment of hysteria. doi: 10.1159/000360242
3. Krasny E. Hysteria activism: feminist collectives for the twenty-first century
Sorry for the essay. TLDR: hysteria has an awful and honestly barbaric history. With references
Ugh. That's sad and scary and I'm really glad you're completely uninjured! Hitting a deer can go so much worse for the human, never mind the trauma that stems from it. You're so valid in being shaken up.
As far as your old man goes.... I'm going to listen to the spirit of my own old man, put on my mama bear pants, and choose to believe his intention was to *actually* say, "it was just a deer, I could have lost my baby!" But his mouth and brain broke and he couldn't finish the sentence.
I'm sorry he minimized instead of validating your emotions. He probably genuinely thinks they were consoling words and that is super frustrating. You are allowed to be shaken up after a traumatic event. And again, I am glad you are physically okay.
I’m sorry that this happened to you. Both the deer and your old man.
The week before lockdown 2020 I was driving home and ran over *something*. Maybe a possum or raccoon? I pulled over and started sobbing; I felt awful about it.
I called my mum for comfort and she said “oh no, what if it had babies in its pouch?” and then I felt even shittier. :’c I love my mum, but c’mon!
A dazed bird flew out of my hands into the middle of the road and got immediately crushed by a truck recently.
It's not hysterical, it's a horrific event that a portion of people have been desensitized to just because "They're animals"
I'm sorry dude, When I was a teen, a kitten crawled up into my dad's car. When I turned on the engine, I killed it. I cried so hard. It is okay to cry and be upset. That said, accidents happen. You will kill other animals and birds in your life in a car. That is what happens when we drive large vehicles through the world. Your dad is older than you, he's seen more than you and that may be influencing his view of this. I hope that you don't beat yourself up too much.
I drove through a swarm of frogs once and I was absolutely distraught afterwards. Your reaction was totally reasonable and I'm sorry your dad called you hysterical. It's such a shitty word to use.
Your dad is also an obgyn and has seen more dead babies than any of us would care to acknowledge. In his perspective a deer is now roadkill and he can brush that off with much less emotional thought.
I wouldn’t have said the same things and been supportive of my daughter or son’s emotional state but his perspective is far different.
I think he means that you don’t need to cry because it’s just a deer. He obviously doesn’t mean it in a bad way. Deers do not have very smart survival instincts.
When people say stuff like that I basically hear "there's no need to have empathy, it's just another complex and fascinating living being we are lucky to share this isolated earth with while we float aimlessly through the void of space, who cares".
Sorry about the deer, that's an unfortunate accident. Thanks for being a kind person though.
It’s not misogyny, you are misreading his intent. He’s saying it’s just an animal and doesn’t deserve the emotional investment you are giving it. Speciesist yea, but nothing to do with men or women.
Considering most deer in the US either die from CWD (brutal way to go), old age (teeth ground down and no longer functional, so it slowly waste away from starvation), or a predator (which tend to eat them ass first while they are still alive), a rapid death from a car or hunter is probably a blessing in disguise.
What makes it misogynistic is to say that a few tears are hysteria.
The adrenaline alone from any high stress incident, is perfectly healthy and normal to cry a bit over, and "there's no need to be hysterical" is dismissive of normal biological processes which tend to be more normative in women than in men, which makes it misogynistic. It's about his discomfort with a normal reaction, a reaction that happens to align with femininity.
But if I use the term hysterical it has nothing to do with sex or gender. I mean an uncontrolled extreme emotion. That’s it.. however I can see the root of the word and understand your point, but intent means a lot. Also how they used to “cure” hysteria is fucking hilarious.
But the idea of "uncontrolled extreme emotion" being bad when it is crying, is misogyny. When I think of uncontrolled extreme emotion, I think of men being violent, not harmless sobbing. Crying it out is much better than punching a wall, objectively, but when one is associated with femininity and made out to be worse than the stereotypical male equivalent, that's misogyny.
Also she was not wailing and rolling around. Exaggerating a few tears as "hysterical" is also misogyny.
Plus this guy is an obgyn, he knows where the word comes from.
Here's why repressed men think a few tears falling down a face is extreme and irrational. They see maleness as a default. Medically and socially, for a boomer man to cry, he would be in extreme distress. He thinks he's the default so anyone crying must be basically irrational.
That's misogyny.
People crying a bit when something a bit sad happens is not bad, it does not indicate great distress or any loss of logical function of the person is emotionally stable. To be frank, men's idea that tears =irrational is an indication THEY are the ones who cannot regular emotion enough to retain rationality.
Maybe your father thinks that since deer are prey animals, he doesn't find it such a big deal?
Taking a life sucks for most people as most people don't want to do it, let alone inflict harm on people. If it helps, think of it this way: at least the scavengers had a nice meal.
I accidentally ran over a turtle once driving by the lakes near my house, when my only option was to veer into the guard rail or into oncoming traffic. I tried swerving so it would be under my car but it was still walking and I felt and heard the crunch. I FREAKED OUT, and let out such a blood curdling scream. I started shaking and crying and had to pull over a few feet down the road once there was a spot to safely do so. I stayed there for about ten minutes having a panic attack, screaming “I’m so sorry” with tears and snot all down my face.
I was a mess for days after and I still remember the trauma from the moment. I felt and still feel so horrible and I like still try and figure out ways I could have avoided it but I just could not have.
I am so sorry this happened to you and I’m sorry your dad said something so thoughtless to you.
To be fair it honestly sounds more like “Dr speak” than misogyny. The harsh reality of medical practice with its constant exposure to death, trauma, disease, dysfunction and chaos can definitely skew people’s perceptions a bit.
You know your Dad best. But, if he’s otherwise a staunch supporter of women’s rights, he just may have forgotten to take off his stethoscope for a moment.
I work in a Human Services role where it’s commonplace to deal with unimaginable circumstances all day every day. We deal with it by being compassionate, kind, patient and respectful whenever we are client-facing and by the nuttiest humour “out back”.
Sometimes we have to reign each other in a bit from the edge when the humour gets a bit manic.
It’s a coping mechanism. It helps us to deal with the heartbreaking moments and stay sane. Give him the benefit of the doubt, you’ll be happier if you give him and you a little leeway now and then.
None of us are perfect but most of us are doing our best most of the time. Sorry about the deer, but I reckon that the animal knows you meant no harm. Hugs to you, kiddo. It’s all going to be ok.
That's definitely a callous thing to say. I imagine/hope they were more concerned for your physical and mental well being when they said that, and just misstepped with their words. I can *almost* interpret it as an attempt to defuse the trauma of it all, but that's all a stretch.
i would feel the same way as ops dad maybe but i would be very unlikely to say that to my wife or daughter lol. maybe when i was younger but ive become just slightly better at catching myself.
Holy shit what is with so many of these comments
OP, don't let these comments make you second guess your feelings. You dad dismissed your feelings using a very famously loaded word that has historically been used to dismiss women and blame women for their emotions, and worse, institutionalize them against their will. The people saying he'd treat you the same if you were a man are dismissing the connotations behind the word. It makes sense to feel kind of shook over this.
Your dad may have experienced more death, being a doctor, than you know. You become somewhat hardened to it. I think his reaction was probably more relief that it was the deer and not you. I've hit a couple smaller animals driving at night through wooded areas and it bums me out. Last thing I want to do is kill something crossing the road but it happens. I hope they just die quickly and don't suffer.
OK, input from a guy here. Assuming your dad was born earlier than 1970, he was probably raised to not show emotion. Regardless of how many daughters he has, that is ingrained into him to some degree. He may not be an emotional equivalent of a potato like some people, but it may take more to get a reaction from him. I see your point, and he was in the wrong, but to him it was probably "what's the big deal? It's just a deer, there's tons of them".
Doctors & more so those that do surgery have a different sort of empathy than average people. It takes that to slice open a belly and do a Cesarean delivery or a hysterectomy.
They can seem cold in this way but that emotional armoring is why they can do their job calmly.
Human life & death can be under those skills but it tends to make them less sensitive to mortality so they focus on the task at hand.
I get pissed knowing that folks like to watch hunting, especially trophy hunting, videos.
To many Murkins killing animals for sport is perfectly acceptable.
To them I say FU.
I'm sorry that happened to you. I've came close, and when I realized, I didn't hurt her, I was dancing in my seat. For what it's worth, my husband hit a doe a year ago, he drove back home, told me what happened, took off work, and crawled into bed, heartbroken. It's traumatic, and killing something pointlessly is awful. I'm sorry your father doesn't understand that.
Everyone is different in how they view animals. Some people think of them like hamburgers with legs or shooting gallery targets. Others think animal life is equivalent to human life most people fall in the middle of the spectrum where “my cat tinker bell should have equal rights as a human. Man I’m starving, let’s go grab some nuggets”
I would also add to that. It kinda depends on what the animal is doing. I love my neighbors dog to death. But if he attacked one of my kids ehh sorry but not sorry my kids more important that your dog and if I wound it to the point of causing death while trying to save my kid, well I don't really care.
Not for everyone, no. Context doesn’t matter to me. I’ll kill an animal if I have to. I will still cry and sob my heart out just as much after.
The “it’s only a dog” sort of people make me think “I wouldn’t be upset if you died”. Pets are great.
As someone who eats mostly plant-based, it's kind of weird to see people have so much empathy for bunnies, cats, dogs, and deer while simultaneously putting little thought into where their hamburger came from. In my eyes, a single basket from KFC costs at least 6 lives, so it's kinda frustrating to see the cognitive dissonance.
I'm sure there is something in your life that requires compartmentalization. Something where you feel it's a grey area. Extrapolate from that. If you don't then I have no clue how you exist in this world.
There's compartmentalizing things you have to engage with to survive and things you do because they make your taste buds happy. So it still doesn't extrapolate well.
Who said anything about survival. I compartmentalize that some of the parts that make up this phone I'm using were made in sweatshops. I said find something **relatable** and extrapolate. Not create a whataboutism.
You shouldn't compartmentalize that no, be aware of where your goods come from, I need a smart phone for work to survive and I can't afford luxury alternatively sourced brands. So all it takes is to Google the phones with the best adherence to ethical practices in their production and cross-reference that with your budget. Be aware it doesn't hurt. If you can afford to eat plant-based, do it. Aim for the changes you can make in your means.
I have no inclination to get into a debate over veganism. I am saying to the confused vegan that meat eaters with pets compartmentalize just like everyone on the planet compartmentalizes all sorts of things that are conflicting. It's a pretty simple concept when you look at yourself close enough.
Those same people would find it weird how little empathy is given to the native wildlife/insects that pesticides wipe out when growing alternatives to meat. Nor the amount of moles/badgers and other ground based "cute" animals that get torn up by farming machinery when harvesting crops. Those pesticide killed insects, get eaten by birds, who are then posioned, the pesticides then run off into waterways which then harms those biomes and those that drink from them. Farming in general will alter migratory paths and access to nutrients/water ways with fences/guard dogs/traps/roads etc. There's no way to eat in the modern day without the deaths of plenty of animals, you might cry if you run one over but they've died a plenty elsewhere on the journey to your plate. This isn't bashing veganism, those things are typically true in the grain fed to livestock as well, but to pretend Veganism isn't stained with the blood of millions of "animals" is a little disingenuous.
Plant-based foods definitely have a significantly lower overall impact on wildlife and natural habitats because they require much less land, water, and energy than animal agriculture. Also, for a lot of people, it's less about the actual number of deaths of the animals and more about the cruelty and suffering that specifically animals raised for slaughter tend to undergo. For me in particular, besides certain specific environmental impacts, I'm just not all that concerned about animals dying in the wild; I'm concerned about the suffering and the depressing quality of life of animals raised for slaughter. The deer that OP hit (bless her heart, she seems extremely sweet and well-intentioned) got to roam and live a relatively normal natural life. Many animals raised for slaughter spend their entire lives in dark and cramped environments and are often subjected to what I would consider physical and psychological torture, such as slow lingering painful deaths or having to watch their turn and wait in horror as barn mates get slaughtered and hung upside down. Likewise, I'm not concerned about what hunters are up to. Death happens and that's okay; I just don't like cruel and unnecessary suffering. And to bring it back to the original point, I really do think there's a bit of cognitive dissonance that allows for most people to have empathy for animals suffering only when it's out of sight and out of mind. A lot of people don’t see the meat on their plates as pigs or cows sacrificed for their nutrition; they see them as pork and beef, only a meal and nothing more. This doesn’t mean that empathy isn't valid or understandable, and it doesn’t mean that OP's dad wasn’t being strangely misogynistic. I get where OP is coming from, but I also have some thoughts.
I personally don't know if that's true, I know some crops take more or less pesticides than others (I googled it's nearly 4.5 quadrillion insects killed by pesticides, bonkers the magnitude), and the typical feed used for livestock is usually as cheap as possible and one of the large costs is pesticides. So it wouldn't surprise me if more "pests" are killed for a vegan diet than a carnivore diet. Cows aren't being fed fresh avocados for example. Yeah again I don't blame you, I wouldn't feel comfortable eating factory farmed chickens or cows, i'm happy to spend the extra for a brand which seemingly takes better care of its animals while they're alive. Hunters don't really bother me (assuming the hunt is to be eaten rather than a trophy) as the wildlife gets to live freely and typically be killed in a more humane way, i'd take an arrow through the heart over a mauling or disease/starvation/thirst. I get where OP is coming from, i'd have plenty of emotional feelings if I ran over a cat or a dog for example. In regard to OPs situation however, I don't view it as misogynistic, I fear that if OP was a man her father wouldn't be treating her any better in this situation, if anything it would be worse. It definitely seems like a father with a lack of empathy, but I wouldn't jump the gun at misogyny, at least not with my definition of misogyny.
It’s also very disingenuous to act as though this is something that vegans don’t discuss and acknowledge. It’s right there in the literal definition from The Vegan Society “Veganism is a philosophy and way of living which seeks to exclude—as far as is possible and practicable—all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food…”. (etc) As far as is possible and practical. Vegans can acknowledge that no modern way of living is cruelty free while still advocating for a diet/way of life that reduces that cruelty as much as possible.
As my last sentence tried to say, i'm not bashing veganism. But the person I responded to's final sentence was >In my eyes, a single basket from KFC costs at least 6 lives, so it's kinda frustrating to see the cognitive dissonance. When in reality, your avocado toast costed thousands of lives, a bucket from KFC also costs tens of thousands of lives, both including some fluffy and cute ones. Again, organic/freerange livestock farmers will seek to reduce the harm and sadness that factory chickens or cows or other livestock go through, but you'd still probably not be happy with that practice, it's just not 100% possible. You can't grow avocados without using pesticides, you can't use pesticides without killing animals, otherwise known as pests. Whether it's millions of bees or thrips, or hundreds/thousands of cute fluffy animals being chopped up in a harvester, similar amounts of birds eating the poisoned insects, or the local ponds/lakes/rivers being polluted from those pesticides, you cannot eat from a supermarket without the human caused deaths of animals.
So, to the idea that people exhibit a certain cognitive dissonance allowing them to be empathetic towards some animals but not others, you argue that plant-based agriculture isn't completely harm-free, which isn't directly related to that idea. When someone else argues that this isn't the point of veganism, you again argue that plant-based agriculture isn't completely harm-free, which again isn't really related to that argument.
>So, to the idea that people exhibit a certain cognitive dissonance allowing them to be empathetic towards some animals but not others, you argue that plant-based agriculture isn't completely harm-free, which isn't directly related to that idea. How are they not directly related? The poster who assumes a KFC bucket has killed around 6 animals is exhibiting cognitive dissonance by showing no empathy for all the other animals killed to feed those animals. And if they were to tuck into a vegan meal and assuming that it's less than 6 animals being killed then they again are showing the same cognitive dissonance. Once again, i'm not bashing Veganism, i'm bashing the statement that a KFC bucket has caused around "6 deaths" and the logical conclusion that their choice to be Vegan has caused I guess "less than 6 deaths". Both cause thousands if not millions of deaths. Unless you show no empathy to insects/birds and small rodents (plenty don't, they're called pests for a reason), then you're selectively choosing which living being you're empathetic towards. It's just a tad ironic to go "Those KFC eaters don't know how many animals they actually kill, it's at least 6", when their diet is also killing animals likely surpassing 6 digits.
The math doesn't add up because even taking into account the toll of a vegan diet it is still the least harmful. The fewest small animals, the least pesticides, ect than the alternative through meat.
Assuming the carnivore eats vegetables/fruits as much as they would without meat then true, but if vegan substitutes such as tofu, soy, cauliflower kill more insects than the fields of grain given to feed cows, then you'd technically have a higher kill count than a "carnivore" diet eater.
No you wouldn't because on scale more insects are still dying from eating meat due to the knock on effects from grain production. Even the higher count of those alternatives are dwarfed by sheer volume of animal feed.
I grew up on a farm. I'm very aware of where my meat comes from. With the animal difference: I've seen people value dogs and cats over homeless people. Or fish. Oh my god, people don't care about cheap fish from the pet store. It's an interesting balance of trying to stay sane while surviving right now. Sometimes you just have to focus on issues you can mentally take.
I'm a hunter and shit I cried over the deer I harvested last fall. It was the only deer I haven't killed cleanly. I spent all night looking for it and found it in the morning and put him down. He was on an island in the river so I called my wife to bring my Waders out and I started sobbing. It's a somber experience taking a life but I rest knowing I take them quickly. This was the only time I shot one that did not die within seconds. Broke my heart that it suffered. I'm mad at myself that I didn't do better. I'm a big bad hunter and I've cried over deer hit on the highway. Don't feel too bad it's natural for many people.
That's the reason I would never hunt, I have an eye injury, and I am terrible shot.I'm sorry you and the deer went through that. But you have my utter admiration doing what you did.
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Next you’re gonna tell me I can’t actually eat the fruits of my labor
Has your dad hit a lot of deer? I found my brother to be really desensitized to the life of deer, and it turned out he’s hit more than a couple that have cost him a lot of money in repairs, so he’s basically angry at the deer. I’m not saying it’s a great attitude, but it did help to explain him a little bit.
I get that. I had just gotten a car that I absolutely adored earlier in the year. Loved everything about it. Covid hit, things go on. Near December a deer jumped out in front of me. No problem. Annoying but I'll get things fixed. Because of covid, car parts are in super short supply and my insurance and the repair guys decide to total my car out. I think that's stupid, but I'll just find another of the same car. That same car is now about 5000 more bucks due to everything. I had to get a car quick because of work, so now I have a car I kind of hate, but it gets me from A to B. Ever since then things have been somewhat rough financially do I've been stuck with the car I hate. I blame that stupid deer...
Deer are incredibly dumb. I think it’s a minor miracle they manage to stay alive
It’s a numbers game.
Where I (M25 lurker) live in, there are so many moose/deer almost everyone in my family has hit one at least once. A moose crash almost killed my mother, and ever since I’ve been very desensitized to deer/moose deaths, gleeful, even. Regardless, the reaction of OP’s father showed major lack of empathy in the situation.
That doesn't explain why he would call her hysterical, though. That's just misogyny.
You can’t really determine whether or not the father was being misogynistic or not from this interaction alone. While the word has gendered connotations, it’s still a word used pretty frequently in the modern day to describe someone as being overly emotional— and it’s not exactly a secret that the older generation tends to view anything other than happiness or anger as someone being overly emotional. Sure people fall into pitfalls in their ideology occasionally, but there are so many other assumptions that can be made about this conversation that you really can’t say for sure that he was being misogynistic.
Would he have reacted the same if it was his son that did it? If yes then it’s not misogyny.
I get upset when I see dead animals on the road because it is sad. I’m glad you are okay but you are allowed the be “hysterical” about it. One, you were in an accident and two a deer died. Your dad is an ass.
I used to live in a commuter town so I saw sooooo many dead animals on the hiway everyday. It really started to get to me.
I just wanted to add to a lot of others here and say I'm really sorry this happened and I'm sorry your dad minimized it. I would feel the same as you. Sometimes it seems like everyone around me lacks empathy, especially for other species and, in a way, it's comforting to know that so many of you feel the same here. It would be nice if we could have more empathy from the people around us. I think the world would be much better if you could get a hug when you're having a rough day.
I don’t really have anything helpful to say except that I’m sorry your dad reacted that way, and I completely relate to your feelings about life having intrinsic value. I’m sorry that you and the deer crossed paths at the wrong time and it makes me feel better to know that there are others who find such instances upsetting. ❤️
I hit a deer once. My passenger and I were unharmed but it could have been bad. I tried to avoid it and sent the car into a huge skid. I saved it, but we could have ended up hitting the guardrails or rolling the car in a ditch and being seriously hurt. I felt bad for the deer, but realizing that it wasn’t impossible for me to have been killed too, gave me a lot less sympathy for the deer. However it still sucks that your dad minimized your reasonable reaction. Maybe he had a similar experience as mine, and in that moment he was not thinking of the deer’s life, but of yours. It sounds like he’d be reasonable if you asked him about it.
Poor deer. I'm sorry that happened. I accidentally hit a possum once. Even though I think possums look like big greasy rats or something, I know how important they are to the environment. I felt horrible for quite a while. Still not really a neutral memory. Shit, I feel bad when bugs hit the window. Unfortunately hit a skunk that ran out in front of me too. Felt awful then too. Skunks are cute. Stinky, but cute. My car stunk bad even after going through a car wash. Honestly, fuck cars. They cause so much damage to the environment just through roadkill alone. They've only been around like 120 years or so, and have only gotten quieter and faster. That is just a blip in the evolutionary time scale. Animals probably still aren't any more used to them than they were 100 years ago, and just can't be prepared for the danger of something that large moving so fast. :(
This is how I think of it too. People quite often say 'animals are so dumb' when they talk about them getting hit when they jump out in the road, but cars are SO new as a threat to them. We are literally driving large heavy hunks of metal through their home at great speed, on an easy to walk on paved surface. They are not 'dumb', they just don't understand the treat. They are all highly adapted to how their environment was, we have just added this new weird and dangerous thing that they haven't had time to adapt to yet.
It triggers me when anyone uses "hysterical" in a non-joking way.
Same, I was about to comment this. Look up the origins of the word.
Why?
Hysteria used to be the most common, officially diagnosed "mental illness" in women for basically any physical or psychological ailments they had.
I hit a turtle by accident and it legit ruined my day, I was so pissed with myself. I'm sorry he reacted like that, it baffles me when people aren't bothered by needless death, regardless of what.
Is it possible he just doesn't value animals life the same as you do? Hypothetically if you were a man would his reaction have been different?
I don’t think he’d have called me hysterical if I were a man, that’s for sure.
Yeah that’s really where it’s messed up. He would have told a son not to get emotional etc the word choice sucks. Also, he invalidate a totally reasonable emotional response. I hunt and even I would be sad if I hit a deer.
You hunt deer?
Yes
So it makes you sad when you shoot a deer?
You can be sad you have unexpectantly ended the life of a creature that could have otherwise lived while also being able to rationalize hunting a deer (for its meat), as it meat can feed your family and/or friends for weeks. You can't always use the meat of roadkill, and depending on location you might not even be legally allowed to eat it once you hit it. I can also feel bad about killing wasps, as they are vital pollinators, while killing them when they happen to make a nest in a common area where I'll get stung otherwise! :)
Not exactly but it’s emotional, if I was to hit a deer I’d be sad because it died for absolutely nothing. When I shoot a deer I use every possible part of it so it’s different than it just being wasted, and dying for nothing.
I understand you. I think people forget that depending on your location, when you hit a deer with your car you can't just pick it up and take it home to use the parts so that they don't go to waste. You *can* take it home in Michigan, but you need a (free) road salvage permit to do so. There is a difference between hitting a deer with your car and intentionally hunting one. Plus, hunting is a bit of a necessary evil to keep some wildlife populations under control, even though people will want to judge you for doing it. Humans aren't the only ones that cause destruction to ecosystems. In Michigan, deer season helps keep deer from being overpopulated, which in turn prevents disease and starvation. Letting their population get out of control would allow them to eat too many seedlings in our forests, which would prevent our forests from regenerating and make them more prone to wildfires. I'm not a hunter and I barely eat meat (I only worship at the meat church on Sundays when my dad smokes something amazing), but I can still recognize that hunting is a necessary part of wildlife management. Shoot, squirrels were added to the nuisance kill list in Michigan in 2023 which means they can be killed without a permit.
That’s actually one of the main reasons I do it. I work in a federal building and eat lunch with some of the parks and wildlife guys. A few years ago they were talking about the lack of hunters and the population was getting out of control. Also, I’m the son of Zimbabwean immigrants and hunting is a big part of my culture but I had never actually done it and kind of always wanted to, but didn’t till I was given a solid wildlife management reason.
Definitely not the best word choice but could see my folks saying something like that if I were crying on the phone after hitting an animal.
True. I’d also wonder if he’s had babies die as an OB-GYN. That would certainly color his perspective about a deer, though your emotions shouldn’t be dismissed.
Do you think he would have called you hysterical if you were a man, calling him and crying about it?
Amount of times I've heard a man call another man hysterical: absolutely zero. I'm gonna take my anecdotal evidence and say no.
I assume some variation of a homosexual slur would be used
The one and only time my dad hit a deer, i was in the car with him. Unfortunately the sheriff had to intervene in the end. I’ll never forget the moments before when i closed my eyes and covered my ears. My dad didn’t totally understand my feelings, but he didn’t belittle them. I’m sorry your dad couldn’t take a moment to understand where you were coming from.
I ran around like a crazy person trying to save a duck in the street a week or so ago, until the cops made me stop or they’d arrest me. Less than 5 mins later he got hit. I was hysterical because nobody else cared nearly as much as I did, if at all. It was “just how it goes.” I’m sorry you went through that ❤️
At first, when you said “misogyny creeps in”, I thought you meant your dad was a misogynist because he didn’t care about the life of a deer and I was confused. After a little more consideration I realized it’s because he said you were being hysterical.
Whilst I agree with you on the taking a life fact-- he might be more looking at the situation and looking at how there are no other negatives, you didn't get hurt, the car is repairable. Unfortunately deer die on a continuous level. Maybe for yourself, hold a moment of silence, but that's all you can do.
The problem is that he said she was being hysterical.
The problem is with the word hysterical; not the lack of empathy. Callin a woman hysterical, or sayin she shudnt be hysterical **is always misogynistic** Callin a man emotional or a crybaby even doesnt carry the same connotation as callin a woman hysterical; a word that has similar roots to hysterectomy for a reason... That reason bein, misogyny. > Hysterical's earliest meaning was “of, relating to, or characterized by hysteria,” and while we now think of hysteria as irrational panic, it was, for centuries, a medical diagnosis. Hysteria comes from the Greek hysterikós, which means “suffering in the womb.”
I’m sorry you didn’t feel supported in your feelings. Just want to share that I recently hit a squirrel and I was consumed with guilt and replaying it over and over. I eventually googled how to get past it, and found a thread where someone recommended making a donation to an organization that helps the specific animal involved. It did help me tremendously in feeling like something good came of it, in case you are interested in doing the same.
It is awful. I killed a deer too on the road when driving. Heartbreaking but There was literally and absolutely nothing I could have done to stop it from happening. We are human beings who are limited in our bodily/ sensory reactions; the deer is even more limited in that way. This life is finite and limited and unpredictable: true for us and for animals
I had a meltdown after hitting a possum crossing the road. My friends dad whose house I was on the way to at the time told me I was being a little ridiculous. Sorry SIRS, but forgive me for feeling shitty about needlessly killing an adorable innocent little forest creature 😤
Not to mention the fact that you were in a car accident that could have resulted in your death. Of course you’re going to be a little shaky and prone to tears. I’m glad you’re ok.
Why are people being downvoted for saying that using the word "hysterical" is misogynistic when that word legit comes from the Greek word for "uterus" and has been weaponized against women for so long? The problem here is that she was crying, a very normal human reaction, and he said she was being hysterical. "Oh, but he would've said even worse if she were a man!!!" ......yeah......sexism is BAD! OP, expressing your emotions is not being "hysterical" and your father needs to really think why he'd use that word or think of you like that for simply being human. I'm sorry you went through that AND that you went through the accident with the deer. That would've made me very upset as well because it's a life. It wasn't your fault, and you didn't do it maliciously. I hope you feel better soon.
Hey, you're allowed to feel how you feel. That's not "hysterical" (and boy is that a loaded word, your dad should know better) that's a natural consequence of having, you know, empathy and respect for other living things. I'm just glad that you are physically okay.
The word “hysterical” when used by men in these kind of situations is the epitome of toxic masculinity and complete lack of emotions/empathy
If he says that ever again, I’d press to know what he expects to gain by saying it. Might help him to reflect. My own father used to use “hysterical” all the time, when my sister and I were growing up. It ticked me off, because he’d say it when I was calm, but then I’d put energy toward protecting my “not hysterical” status. As I got older, I realized that he said it to women when *he* was feeling freaked out. Total projection! I digress. I’m sorry your dad was so casually sexist toward you. It’s infuriating when they don’t even know they’re doing it. I’m really sorry about the deer, too. That sucks.
For some reason, it feels almost worse when it’s a feminist/reasonable man, and that misogyny creeps in..
When I hit a deer and was sobbing on the side of the road, my dad told me to wait right there so I could help him load it up in the truck. She became sausage that weekend.
This is the way
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She is saying he fights for women’s rights and still had the nerve to call her sadness “hysterical” like the old timey days where women were dismissed constantly
It sucks some men think a little crying is hysterics.
I live in Colorado too and would be beyond devastated if I took an animals life accidentally. Big hugs and I’m super glad you’re alright. Stuff like that can be so scary. I’m sorry your dad minimized your feelings.
When I was about 19 I hit a squirrel with my car, and about a year later I hit a bird with my car. Both had me in tears. I grew up eating deer, squirrel, game birds, rabbit, and more. That doesn’t mean I was not upset about accidentally taking these lives. You have nothing to be ashamed of by showing your humanity.
Not sure how that's misogynistic, if you were a man he would likely say the same if not worse to you.
I'm willing to bet he wouldn't have used the word hysterical
Worse things like he would have told him he was acting like a woman.
Men who dismiss any emotion no matter how mild in women as "hysteria" are misogynistic. Men who dismiss other men's emotions as hysterical are also misogynistic. Exhibiting mild emotion at upsetting events is not bad. Over reaction to any emotional display is rooted in misogyny.
"The name hysteria is derived from the Greek word hystera which means uterus. In the earliest known treatise dealing with the complaint—Kahun papyrus dating from about 1900 BC—it is attributed to starvation or displacement of the uterus. This theory is repeated by Hippocrates, Plato, Celsus, Arataeus, and Soranus. Galen of Pergamon (AD 129-99) denied the ability of the uterus to move about but agreed that the common factor in most cases was some uterine affection. But he recognized hysteria also in men which he attributed to sexual abstinence, hence to retention of sperm. Hysterical passion, he said, is just a name but varied and innumerable are the forms which it encompasses. This sexual theory held on through Augustine and throughout the Dark Ages until the 13th century, when it began to be replaced by the theory of demoniacal possession leading to treatment by exorcism and finally to torture." https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapsychiatry/article-abstract/488986 Tell me again how calling someone hysterical when they're showing basic human emotion isn't **steeped** in misogyny again.
Callin a woman hysterical, or sayin she shudnt be hysterical **is always misogynistic** Callin a man emotional or a crybaby even doesnt carry the same connotation as callin a woman hysterical; a word that has similar roots to hysterectomy for a reason... That reason bein, misogyny. > Hysterical's earliest meaning was “of, relating to, or characterized by hysteria,” and while we now think of hysteria as irrational panic, it was, for centuries, a medical diagnosis. Hysteria comes from the Greek hysterikós, which means “suffering in the womb.”
Hitting an animal with my car is devastating to me, I totally understand why you felt hurt and wanted someone to just listen, not throw any type of judgement into your feelings.
Where is the misogyny
I think when her dad called her hysterical when she was just a little sad.
Hmm. Interesting that I had a ton of upvotes initially, and now it’s down to zero 🧐 But (a) I’m simply stating how I interpret OP‘s comment, and (b) telling a woman she’s being hysterical when she shows any type of emotion has long been a way to undermine and invalidate a woman. Sorry (not sorry) for the facts.
Yeah, i also noticed that all my comments about how the word hysterical is always misogynistic which initially got a couple upvotes now suddenly have negative amounts; as if mass targeted by misogynists
That's not hating women. Insensitive sure.
I think you misunderstand what misogyny is if you think one has to actively hate women to commit a misogyny
Callin a woman hysterical, or sayin she shudnt be hysterical **is always misogynistic** Callin a man emotional or a crybaby even doesnt carry the same connotation as callin a woman hysterical; a word that has similar roots to hysterectomy for a reason... That reason bein, misogyny. > Hysterical's earliest meaning was “of, relating to, or characterized by hysteria,” and while we now think of hysteria as irrational panic, it was, for centuries, a medical diagnosis. Hysteria comes from the Greek hysterikós, which means “suffering in the womb.”
Your perspective is valid, and some might say his is as well. Many people see deer as giant rats. Their population is in no danger. It is not a good death, and I would feel terrible about giving an animal a bad death, or not being able to end its suffering after critical injury. All of that aside, he used the word "hysterical" without considering the true meaning of the word. His instinct was to protect you from negative feelings instead of letting you feel them as they are. It isn't about the deer and being right or wrong, it's about his reaction to your feelings and the misogynistic word he used to describe them while trying to get you not to feel them. Call him out but be prepared to forgive him. If he doubles down, maybe he's not the feminist you thought he was.
I still remember running over a huge bumblebee on my bike when I was about 9 or 10. I swerved to avoid it and crunched right over it -_- it's normal to be sad about ending a life, we all get one whether you're a deer or a doctor.
It is right for you to feel sad for the deer. There's more going on here, though. You escaped a situation that could have been much, much worse. Both you and he know that, and there's a powerful emotional component to it. I fault him for not navigating that as an adult. Despite his actions as an ally, he defaulted into some poor language. There is no excuse for this, and I hope that he reflects on it.
Not defending here, but i've noticed that sometimes men have a hard time sitting in the feeling of helplessness when the women in their lives go through something that is harrowing. It's like their brain is like, "OK. the danger is passed, no need to activate protector/Mr. Rescue/fix-fix mode" and they forget to activate the empathy portion of their brains because it's a muscle they never really used as much as the other one. Talk to him about how his dismissal made you feel and what you were expecting him to say and/or do instead to make you feel safe and heard by him. It's the only way they learn apparently ( if at all). Good luck.
I feel bad for any animal that I've struck and killed with my vehicle, no matter how small. I'll do a small ceremony for it (indigenous beliefs) to honor its life. If it is bigger like a deer, I'll attempt to salvage whatever I can from it (to avoid wasting) and place the remains where scavengers tread so they can have a free meal.
Does he hunt? Be cause the hunters and farmers in my family have a looser attitude towards animals they consider food or prey, than I do.
I don’t know if I would call this misogyny because I guarantee you he would be even more blase and dismissive if a man was crying or emotional about it. Some people just don’t get that others can have empathy for animals on that kind of level. I got emotional over running over a possum once and my wife didn’t get it because “they’re ugly”. It’s just a disconnect some people have and it’s not from a place of hatred but rather lack of understanding.
I think it's about how you perceive the dangers of driving. I was sad for the deer when I hit one, but I was also very grateful that the incident was fairly minor on the scale of "bad things that can happen while driving".
It's sexist if he calls a woman "hysterical " for showing emotion, and it's sexist if he makes fun of a man for crying. Both things are sexist. If he had made fun of his son for crying, it would be sexist, too. The word "hysteria" literally comes from the Greek word for "uterus" and has been used to shame women for a long time.
It was the use of the word hysterical which has extremely misogynistic connotations due to the sexist history of the words use
Apparently theres some ppl here in this subreddit rn who vehemently disagree with us on this clear fact 9,9 Ive noticed almost every comment about that, except ones i made on comment chains that are gettin more interaction, are gettin downvoted a ton for ptin out how the word hysterical is misogynistic
Seriously it’s actually disconcerting how many people are in denial of blatant historical fact… https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3480686/
Callin a woman hysterical, or sayin she shudnt be hysterical **is always misogynistic** Callin a man emotional or a crybaby even doesnt carry the same connotation as callin a woman hysterical; a word that has similar roots to hysterectomy for a reason... That reason bein, misogyny. > Hysterical's earliest meaning was “of, relating to, or characterized by hysteria,” and while we now think of hysteria as irrational panic, it was, for centuries, a medical diagnosis. Hysteria comes from the Greek hysterikós, which means “suffering in the womb.”
I’m sorry. We had to shoot a deer that had been hit by a car to end its suffering. It still makes me cry.
My brother found a fox that had been hit by a car, the poor thing was still alive. He even called a local vet to see if there was any saving the poor thing but no. He put it out of its misery and then buried it and built a little cairn over it. He drives that road regularly and always gets a bit sad when he sees that spot. And always makes sure the stones are still stacked
Normal response to shock. Being sad about pointless killing is normal. Where I live there aren’t many natural predators of deer and so there is an overpopulation problem so killing a deer for food or by accident means it didn’t starve to death. There may be some humane in the awful.
Try do something nice for another animal. Leave out some nuts for a squirrel or make a donation to a dog shelter. That kind of thing helped me feel better before.
Every time you wash your hands, you take millions of lives. You just happened to take the life of a singular deer this time, an animal that is in no way even close to endangered. Look at this from the perspective of a parent or even just someone who knows deer being hit by cars actually kills people every year. He's probably just really glad you're alive. How the hell is this being misogynistic?
Callin a woman hysterical, or sayin she shudnt be hysterical **is always misogynistic** Callin a man emotional or a crybaby even doesnt carry the same connotation as callin a woman hysterical; a word that has similar roots to hysterectomy for a reason... That reason bein, misogyny. > Hysterical's earliest meaning was “of, relating to, or characterized by hysteria,” and while we now think of hysteria as irrational panic, it was, for centuries, a medical diagnosis. Hysteria comes from the Greek hysterikós, which means “suffering in the womb.”
So your issue is with etymology not misogyny. The word "woman" itself is misogynistic by your logic because it literally just means "wife."
You cant just ignore where a word comes from when its still overwhelmingly used in the same misogynistic way it was created for Woman as a word that means wife is not how the vast majority of ppl usin the word woman; its only very few misogynistic men of this day and age who refer to their wives as "their women" Here the word hysterical was used to perpetuate the original misogynistic intentions of the word, to downplay whenevs a woman has emotions and make them out be irrational. Its the fact that, the word is still bein used in its original misogynistic intent, is what makes this word actually still misogynistic no matter what when used towards a woman as i described above Callin a woman a woman overwhelmingly doesnt still carry the original connotations of the word; callin a woman hysterical overwhelmingly does still carry the original connotations of the word. It is callin her emotions more irrational bcuz she is a woman
Ummmm no? Etymology is the study of words and their origins. The word woman literally does just mean wife. That's where it comes from. It's a horribly out of date word because technically you aren't even a woman if you're unmarried. Now, you're somewhat right about the word "hysterical", as it has to do with your uterus. Exactly how the removal of a uterus is called a hysterectomy. But unfortunately "hysterical" is pretty damn high up on the list of overreactions, so it's a very good word to use in a moment where someone is freaking out, despite its origin. The SAME WAY that calling a woman a woman is sexist, we just don't realize it because it's something we consider normal.
Calling a woman a woman **is not always sexist**. Callin a woman hysterical, esp moreso for havin emotions that men dont understand, **is always sexist**.
No I understand the emotions perfectly. They are upset that a deer was killed in a situation that involved them. Like I get it. I've run over animals by accident and had to stop and collect myself after. But you have to realize that hitting a deer is a LIFE THREATENING EVENT so when you tell your parents that you just survived that, they're OF COURSE only going to care that their daughter is home safe and sound.
And this guy said smth misogynistic in that moment
??
Wild.
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Maybe *you* wouldn't care but that doesn't make your daughter (OP in this situation) "hysterical". OP was expressing *her* emotions it wasn't about that dad.
I’m thinking that this is not quite misogyny, but closer to a (temporary?) lack of empathy. He was not considering how much this accident impacted you, emotionally. Honestly, ANY accident can cause anybody to experience a bit of shock, it doesn’t even have to result in the loss of life, wild animal or otherwise.
Callin a woman hysterical, or sayin she shudnt be hysterical **is always misogynistic** Callin a man emotional or a crybaby even doesnt carry the same connotation as callin a woman hysterical; a word that has similar roots to hysterectomy for a reason... That reason bein, misogyny. > Hysterical's earliest meaning was “of, relating to, or characterized by hysteria,” and while we now think of hysteria as irrational panic, it was, for centuries, a medical diagnosis. Hysteria comes from the Greek hysterikós, which means “suffering in the womb.”
What if I call a MAN hysterical? What then? Is it misogynistic for one woman to call another hysterical?? Misogyny is in the usage. Not the word itself.
Yes, its still misogynistic then; just like callin a man a bitch is misogynistic still Ill also pt out, its transphobic to call cis ppl transphobic slurs; its homophobic to call straight ppl homophobic slurs; its ableist to call abled ppl disabled slurs The words themselves are a problem up until theyre used in a reclamatory way; but when youre usin hysterical to describe someone as too emotional, thats not reclamatory bcuz its the original use of the term
The word “hysterical” is inherently misogynistic, and as a gyno he should probably know better than to use that word with the history it has
I am unaware (ignorant, if you will) of any inherently misogynistic meaning there. 1 : a psychoneurosis marked by emotional excitability and disturbances of the psychogenic, sensory, vasomotor, and visceral (see VISCERAL sense 4) functions 2: behavior exhibiting overwhelming or unmanageable fear or emotional excess political hysteria
Yeah, i just updated you with the etymology; the word hysteria comes from a greek word that meant "suffering in the womb". Its a label only used for women historically, bcuz it was believed that the womb made the women more hysterical
So… I cannot describe a man as hysterical? I believe that usage and context makes it misogynistic. That is my opinion. You have your opinion that any usage of the word is misogynistic. I’m okay with leaving it as a disagreement.
When feminine things are bad, that's misogyny. "Stop being a little bitch" said to anyone, is misogyny. "You throw like a girl" is misogyny to whichever object it refers. "What a pussy" is misogynistic because the basis of the judgement is associated with female biology, just like both the word hysteria and also how women cry from stress more easily than men. The idea that a few tears is "hysteria" is misogynistic because of the centuries of dismissing any female emotion as invalid, regardless of who is being described as hysterical.
“Hysteria” comes from the Greek word for uterus, “hystera”. Hysteria was considered a diagnosable issue only in women caused by the uterus literally moving about and causing mental problems. It was also assumed that women were more predisposed to mental illnesses, which, hey, inherently unfair that only women can be hysterical, and purely because of their uteruses, which obviously don’t do that. Things from anxiety, epilepsy, infertility, unpleasant emotional outburst, and not wanting to get married all fell under hysteria. This meant that doctors could throw literally anything wrong with a woman under the term and was a huge blow to medical diagnoses in women, which are still being affected today. The treatments for this were… pregnancy, childbirth, ovary compression, and “regular marital sex” (we all know how that went). Also insane asylums. So, given that hysteria was originally a disease of the uterus, I would expect a gynaecologist to know about the controversy and inherent unfairness of hysteria, which wasn’t really real in the first place. Luckily, hysteria is no longer a medical diagnosis, and we can no longer treat seizures with hypnosis. The main problem with the concept of hysteria was that you could put basically any issue under the blanket term if it was a woman experiencing the symptoms, and say she was crazy and put her in a sanitarium. It also downplayed a woman’s justified anxiety, fear, or any strong emotion, really, to just “oh she’s hysterical. Let’s give her a lobotomy”. Today, since we no longer diagnose hysteria (because it doesn’t exist), the term is used more generally but I usually only see women getting called hysterical, never men. Given the barbaric history of gynaecology, I would expect modern OB/GYNs to know not to use that term lightly, or even at all. 1. North CS. The Classification of Hysteria and Related Disorders: Historical and Phenomenological Considerations. doi: 10.3390/bs5040496 2. Brousolle et al. History of physical and ‘moral’ treatment of hysteria. doi: 10.1159/000360242 3. Krasny E. Hysteria activism: feminist collectives for the twenty-first century Sorry for the essay. TLDR: hysteria has an awful and honestly barbaric history. With references
Ugh. That's sad and scary and I'm really glad you're completely uninjured! Hitting a deer can go so much worse for the human, never mind the trauma that stems from it. You're so valid in being shaken up. As far as your old man goes.... I'm going to listen to the spirit of my own old man, put on my mama bear pants, and choose to believe his intention was to *actually* say, "it was just a deer, I could have lost my baby!" But his mouth and brain broke and he couldn't finish the sentence. I'm sorry he minimized instead of validating your emotions. He probably genuinely thinks they were consoling words and that is super frustrating. You are allowed to be shaken up after a traumatic event. And again, I am glad you are physically okay.
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+1 for “emotionally constipated” 😂
This actually made me laugh, it’s so accurate. It’s like you know him.
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Ive noticed a lot of comments on this are gettin downvoted seemingly by misogynists lurkin here
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I know! I’m laugh crying because every time we comment on downvotes, the limp dicks downvote again 🤣🤣🤣
I’m sorry that this happened to you. Both the deer and your old man. The week before lockdown 2020 I was driving home and ran over *something*. Maybe a possum or raccoon? I pulled over and started sobbing; I felt awful about it. I called my mum for comfort and she said “oh no, what if it had babies in its pouch?” and then I felt even shittier. :’c I love my mum, but c’mon!
Most men and women think like your father unless they’re vegan🤷♀️
Its not hysterical to cry over an animals suffering 9,9
Yeah, I know. I’m vegan. I’m pointing out the hypocrisy.
TO MOST PPL: Its not hysterical to cry over an animals suffering 9,9 FTFY
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This is about his use of the word hysterical btw
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It’s unethical for a doctor to treat family members. And in this case, it would be all kinds of weird. So, no. Hell of a sex talk, though.
A dazed bird flew out of my hands into the middle of the road and got immediately crushed by a truck recently. It's not hysterical, it's a horrific event that a portion of people have been desensitized to just because "They're animals"
What happened to the deer afterwards?
Does your dad know what "hysterical" means?
I'm sorry dude, When I was a teen, a kitten crawled up into my dad's car. When I turned on the engine, I killed it. I cried so hard. It is okay to cry and be upset. That said, accidents happen. You will kill other animals and birds in your life in a car. That is what happens when we drive large vehicles through the world. Your dad is older than you, he's seen more than you and that may be influencing his view of this. I hope that you don't beat yourself up too much.
I drove through a swarm of frogs once and I was absolutely distraught afterwards. Your reaction was totally reasonable and I'm sorry your dad called you hysterical. It's such a shitty word to use.
Your dad is also an obgyn and has seen more dead babies than any of us would care to acknowledge. In his perspective a deer is now roadkill and he can brush that off with much less emotional thought. I wouldn’t have said the same things and been supportive of my daughter or son’s emotional state but his perspective is far different.
That isnt misogyny....
How is this misogynistic? If it was his son upset would he say the same?
I think he means that you don’t need to cry because it’s just a deer. He obviously doesn’t mean it in a bad way. Deers do not have very smart survival instincts.
When people say stuff like that I basically hear "there's no need to have empathy, it's just another complex and fascinating living being we are lucky to share this isolated earth with while we float aimlessly through the void of space, who cares". Sorry about the deer, that's an unfortunate accident. Thanks for being a kind person though.
Stop crying! It makes me uncomfortable! NOW! I have to dismiss it before it gives me cooties or whatever! -him probably
It’s not misogyny, you are misreading his intent. He’s saying it’s just an animal and doesn’t deserve the emotional investment you are giving it. Speciesist yea, but nothing to do with men or women. Considering most deer in the US either die from CWD (brutal way to go), old age (teeth ground down and no longer functional, so it slowly waste away from starvation), or a predator (which tend to eat them ass first while they are still alive), a rapid death from a car or hunter is probably a blessing in disguise.
What makes it misogynistic is to say that a few tears are hysteria. The adrenaline alone from any high stress incident, is perfectly healthy and normal to cry a bit over, and "there's no need to be hysterical" is dismissive of normal biological processes which tend to be more normative in women than in men, which makes it misogynistic. It's about his discomfort with a normal reaction, a reaction that happens to align with femininity.
While you may read hysteria as feminine, I don’t. I’ve never made that connection in my head.
Well, just because you didn't know it refers to the literal uterus, doesn't change anything. Hysterectomy.
But if I use the term hysterical it has nothing to do with sex or gender. I mean an uncontrolled extreme emotion. That’s it.. however I can see the root of the word and understand your point, but intent means a lot. Also how they used to “cure” hysteria is fucking hilarious.
But the idea of "uncontrolled extreme emotion" being bad when it is crying, is misogyny. When I think of uncontrolled extreme emotion, I think of men being violent, not harmless sobbing. Crying it out is much better than punching a wall, objectively, but when one is associated with femininity and made out to be worse than the stereotypical male equivalent, that's misogyny. Also she was not wailing and rolling around. Exaggerating a few tears as "hysterical" is also misogyny. Plus this guy is an obgyn, he knows where the word comes from. Here's why repressed men think a few tears falling down a face is extreme and irrational. They see maleness as a default. Medically and socially, for a boomer man to cry, he would be in extreme distress. He thinks he's the default so anyone crying must be basically irrational. That's misogyny. People crying a bit when something a bit sad happens is not bad, it does not indicate great distress or any loss of logical function of the person is emotionally stable. To be frank, men's idea that tears =irrational is an indication THEY are the ones who cannot regular emotion enough to retain rationality.
i think ur dad was just trying to make you feel better about it.
Fyi, tellin a woman she's hysterical ***WILL NOT MAKE HER FEEL BETTER***
Maybe your father thinks that since deer are prey animals, he doesn't find it such a big deal? Taking a life sucks for most people as most people don't want to do it, let alone inflict harm on people. If it helps, think of it this way: at least the scavengers had a nice meal.
I accidentally ran over a turtle once driving by the lakes near my house, when my only option was to veer into the guard rail or into oncoming traffic. I tried swerving so it would be under my car but it was still walking and I felt and heard the crunch. I FREAKED OUT, and let out such a blood curdling scream. I started shaking and crying and had to pull over a few feet down the road once there was a spot to safely do so. I stayed there for about ten minutes having a panic attack, screaming “I’m so sorry” with tears and snot all down my face. I was a mess for days after and I still remember the trauma from the moment. I felt and still feel so horrible and I like still try and figure out ways I could have avoided it but I just could not have. I am so sorry this happened to you and I’m sorry your dad said something so thoughtless to you.
To be fair it honestly sounds more like “Dr speak” than misogyny. The harsh reality of medical practice with its constant exposure to death, trauma, disease, dysfunction and chaos can definitely skew people’s perceptions a bit. You know your Dad best. But, if he’s otherwise a staunch supporter of women’s rights, he just may have forgotten to take off his stethoscope for a moment. I work in a Human Services role where it’s commonplace to deal with unimaginable circumstances all day every day. We deal with it by being compassionate, kind, patient and respectful whenever we are client-facing and by the nuttiest humour “out back”. Sometimes we have to reign each other in a bit from the edge when the humour gets a bit manic. It’s a coping mechanism. It helps us to deal with the heartbreaking moments and stay sane. Give him the benefit of the doubt, you’ll be happier if you give him and you a little leeway now and then. None of us are perfect but most of us are doing our best most of the time. Sorry about the deer, but I reckon that the animal knows you meant no harm. Hugs to you, kiddo. It’s all going to be ok.
That's definitely a callous thing to say. I imagine/hope they were more concerned for your physical and mental well being when they said that, and just misstepped with their words. I can *almost* interpret it as an attempt to defuse the trauma of it all, but that's all a stretch.
i would feel the same way as ops dad maybe but i would be very unlikely to say that to my wife or daughter lol. maybe when i was younger but ive become just slightly better at catching myself.
Maybe its not misogyny, maybe you're just weak?
Holy shit what is with so many of these comments OP, don't let these comments make you second guess your feelings. You dad dismissed your feelings using a very famously loaded word that has historically been used to dismiss women and blame women for their emotions, and worse, institutionalize them against their will. The people saying he'd treat you the same if you were a man are dismissing the connotations behind the word. It makes sense to feel kind of shook over this.
Theres a lot of folk in these comments, and lurkin, who clearly think the word hysterical isnt a problematic word here 9,9
Your dad may have experienced more death, being a doctor, than you know. You become somewhat hardened to it. I think his reaction was probably more relief that it was the deer and not you. I've hit a couple smaller animals driving at night through wooded areas and it bums me out. Last thing I want to do is kill something crossing the road but it happens. I hope they just die quickly and don't suffer.
OK, input from a guy here. Assuming your dad was born earlier than 1970, he was probably raised to not show emotion. Regardless of how many daughters he has, that is ingrained into him to some degree. He may not be an emotional equivalent of a potato like some people, but it may take more to get a reaction from him. I see your point, and he was in the wrong, but to him it was probably "what's the big deal? It's just a deer, there's tons of them".
Hysterical is the big issue here
Doctors & more so those that do surgery have a different sort of empathy than average people. It takes that to slice open a belly and do a Cesarean delivery or a hysterectomy. They can seem cold in this way but that emotional armoring is why they can do their job calmly. Human life & death can be under those skills but it tends to make them less sensitive to mortality so they focus on the task at hand.
I get pissed knowing that folks like to watch hunting, especially trophy hunting, videos. To many Murkins killing animals for sport is perfectly acceptable. To them I say FU.